Insight with Chris Van Vliet - The Godfather On Why His Gimmick Would NEVER Work Now In WWE, Being Papa Shango, Right To Censor, WWE Hall Of Fame Induction

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

Charles Wright is better known as The Godfather (@thegodfather). He is a WWE Hall of Famer and also performed under the names Papa Shango, Kama Mustafa and The Goodfather with Right to Censor. He joins Chris Van Vliet at the Blue Wire Studios in Las Vegas in this interview from January 2022. He talks about his legendary career, becoming friends with The Undertaker, being discovered working as a bartender at a strip club, having his first wrestling match against Jerry "The King" Lawler, his time in the faction "Right to Censor" with Ivory, Stevie Richards, Val Venis and Bull Buchanan, being inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame and much more! Use the code CVV to get your first month of Bluechew for FREE at http://bluechew.com Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV at http://thecoldplunge.com Quote I'm thinking about: Enjoy the little things in life, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things. - Robert Breault For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van. Does this mean I've officially come aboard the Ho-Train? Man, you are a member. You're a member. I am so glad that we're able to do this in person. I've been wanting to reach out to you, but the fact that you live in Vegas, our studios in Vegas,

we're making it happen now. It's an honor to be on the show, man. I've been looking forward all day, and that's no boy. I've been looking forward to doing this all day. Dude, the honor is all my. I'm so glad we're able to share this conversation. And, like, this is just awesome. How long have you been in Vegas, by the way?

I moved to Vegas in 1984. Oh, man. Yeah. I was born the year before that. Can you believe that? I just got out of college. Wow. Playing football at UNR.

And I moved out here. I'm from Northern California. A big stretch there in Northern California to hear. What I think is so amazing about your story is you've been so many different people, right? You've always been Charles, but you've been. so many different characters. I'm so curious, which was the character you have pitched that you went? That thing is going to absolutely work.

And maybe it didn't. It didn't or it did. Either way. The one that did was Godfather. When that was pitched to you, were you like, yeah. It was not pitched to me. Oh, bro. It was not.

You know who came up with it? Oh, my wife. My wife. You should be a pimp. It wasn't that I should be a pimp. it was she was more like if you could let people see what you're really like and you're not a voodoo man you're not an ultimate fighter you're not a nation member but just be who you are she goes we're sitting on something there and she came up with though i didn't want to be a pimp dude i used to own a

part owner of a club here in Vegas called cheetahs yeah that we sold three years ago i hated pimps so i didn't want to be a pimp and then everything that She asked me to do that I didn't want to do that I ended up doing. It worked. The Godfather was never pitched to me. Me and my wife came up with it on our own. At the time, I'm in the nation of domination, they're building the rock. Okay, so me and DeLo Brown, who also lives here in Vegas,

me and DeLo Brown are just walking to the ring with the rock. And when it's time for Stone Cold or Undertaker to give them their finish, we're feeding in for it. And that's all we were doing. Yeah. And so my contract was coming up, and I'm like, I got to come up with something different. You know, because WWE, I'm still under contract with them today. And they've been always so cool with me.

So we developed this character. I started growing my hair, and it kind of just took off. And literally, I was wrestling Bradshaw, and I'm Kamala, Mustafa, and he's Bradshaw or whoever the hell he is. Yeah. And do you know what a popcorn match is? that's the match after intermission for people that don't know. Yeah. They go get their popcorn.

And so it doesn't, it's the match that don't matter. Or the bathroom break. Yeah. That's nobody cares about. Get the people get to spend their money. Yeah. And so we're beating the hell out of each other for 10, 12 minutes. And then one day I said, Johnny, let's try something.

And so we went to the agent who was Jack Lance at the time. And we go, Jack, let's try something. Jack's cool. Let's try it. And so I went out there with no girls. I went out there and told John and just basically said, people, I'm just going to say it, I'm a pimp. And see how you just laugh?

Yeah. They laugh. Mind you, me and John are going 10, 12 minutes a night, and people are sitting on their hands. They don't care. And so just that little, I'm a pimp, we get a reaction. I'm like, whoa, I said, but what you don't know is right here in Cleveland, Ohio,

you got some of the best holes ever born. See how you're laughing? What's this whole character? I love it. And it's just, now I have no girls with me. I'm just me. And so I go through the whole thing and I offer John the girls instead of fighting me. I have no girls.

I'm saying in the back, in a limo, I'm using that type of thing. And so he ends up taking the, and I'm like, listen, take the hose. I can't say hose? Sure, of course. You can say whatever you want? You say, take the hose. Well, these days I use. Take the hose.

And so the people would start chanting. Take the. Take the hose. Now, mind you, like I said, no reaction before. Now we got the whole stadium going, take the hose. Take the hose. So John takes the hose. He leaves.

And, of course, now I grab the mic and start dealing on him. Stupid red necksness and that. Just another, you know, so they start booing me. John turns around, comes back, referee buzzes me. I turn around. He hits me with that close line. one, two, three. I'd jump up, had everything still on,

because I was addressing basically out of dress now. And I would say, man, pimping ain't easy. And the place would pop. Man. We did it two times on the road. And when we got the TV, Vince called me into the office. He says, Charles, we might be on to something here. You hadn't even pitched this to Vince yet?

No. No. You were still a nation of domination member? Yes. Yeah, and I was comment And then the next interview I did on my own Because Rocky used to do all the talking. Of course.

I said, hey, Rock, call me the Godfather. He's like, what? I'm like, just call me the Godfather. He goes, all right. And he goes, my man, here, the Godfather. And once he did that, everybody started calling me the Godfather. Once again, nothing to do with the WWE. Wow.

And then Vince came to me. And mind you, I'm not. known to know my way around a strip club or two. Let's just say that. When I came here in 84, I worked at the crazy horse here on Paradise. Most people don't even remember that place. I've been to the crazy horse, too. I went to a bachelor party there.

I worked there too. Of course you did. The guy that owned the crazy horse before I start working there was named Spalachro, and he had his head cut off and found in the desert. So that's what I started working here at 84. That's what I stepped into. But now it's off the track because I think of these cheetahs,

but what were we saying? So if you were most like the Godfather and you knew that he was going to get over the most, rank your other characters for me from most over to least over in your opinion. In my opinion, Godfather, by far, is the most over. Then I would go with Papa Shango,

comma, in the nation of domination, comma, the supreme fighting machine, and last, and very least, the good father. I hated that. I hated that. When they told you, and we're kind of jumping all over the place here,

but I'm just so curious, when they told you that you were going to join right to censor and become the good father, did you think they were joking? I knew it was coming because that's when Vince was public. He was answering to people. We went from cable to network, and they were cutting out the DX and the suck it and the

tip in the puppies and this and that. And they were after me. You have this black guy calling girls' holes, talking about Pippin'Aid Easy, and telling people to smoke weed. Okay. Between you and Valvinas, like, I think there were a lot of issues there. You know, we were a tag team for a minute. Of course.

Supply and demand. Those were the days. When I think the people now don't realize that right to censor was RTC against the PTC and like basically like really taking a stand of like we don't believe what you guys stand for. Yeah. And I hated it. I hated it. And I was going to, soon as I, as soon as they told me what I was doing, that's why you'd see me come and go all the time.

I always had the strip clubs here in Vegas. So always had a means of making money. And so when I was not having fun and not making money, I would leave. And I would go to visits. Hey, Vince, man, I'm just, it's time to go. And he would just laugh and say, okay, Charles, we'll call you the year or so if you want to come back. And that's how that would go, you know. But, you know, I always get sidetracked.

I smoke a lot. But talking about that Godfather's story, I mean, that is such a story about getting yourself over, like believing in what you had in mind and just running with it no matter what my wife's idea i tell people all i did was the the silliness and and the talking and that my part my wife had the outfits made the vests jackets she had a jeweler making its jewelry we had an airbrusher painting the back of our vest the front of our vest i mean it was crazy it was i was i was just doing what she said, just go out there and be yourself. And what you see right here is the godfather. And it's Charles Wright and the godfather are one and the same. Did you think at any point in time that this

was a Hall of Fame character? Um, depends how you look at it. Yeah, okay. Money wise, yes. Sure. I mean, even though that was a mid-card character, it was over like a top character. Yeah. And it sold a lot of merchandise. It still sells merchandise. And I still have, When I go to these sightings, there's still lines of people there wanting to see the godfather, which I think is cool, bro. I mean, because I developed that, me and my wife, and we developed it just being ourselves. Also, you bring it. Like, even still, you bring it.

Like, look at this smile on your face right now. And I've been to enough autograph signings to know that there's a certain generation of wrestlers who don't really want to be there and their krimogy and their difficult. to speak with. And like, you just have this positive attitude that just oozes out of you. That's not a bad thing. I always, I tell my wife, I'm no millionaire, trillionaire, but I'm doing okay. And if I get to the point where I have to act like that and I can't be myself, I would never do it. I actually have a lot of fun doing them for the next four months. I think I'm booked every weekend. And I enjoy them. You know, I really do.

So at one point in The Godfather, did the hose get brought in? Because we've all heard the stories about like someone reaches out to the local strip club and basically says, we need some women to be on TV tonight. How the very first time when we were talking earlier, and Vince says, Charles, you think you can go get some girls? And I'm like, Vince, are you joking? You know, be a taker in strip clubs every night. You know, every strip club every girl. So I grabbed The Undertaker.

You know, I grabbed Bart. And we go down to a strip club. This is during the day. And we grab three or four girls and we take them back with us to the WWE or F, whatever it was at the time. And they signed them to a thing. They pay them. And we take them on TV.

And they don't ask me anything. They basically say, do what you do. And I basically went out there and did the same show I was doing with John. We did that, but we did it with girls. And I swear to you, went from walking through an airport where maybe some people would notice you and say, oh, there's that wrestler dude to the next day coming to the airport. People were like, Godfather, where's the hose? Godfather, where's the hose? It got over from the very second we put it on TV.

Brother, it was just over, you know, over. Walk me through. You're going into a strip club in the middle of the day, which, you know, it's not that busy in the middle of the day, you and the Undertaker, two larger than life personalities going in, this pitch probably sounds like it's completely made up and it's not true at all. Well, more than likely, we were probably there the night before. So they probably do who we wanted to. Oh, you guys. My God, you just left here three hours ago. You know, they used to close a lot of strip clubs and being hit would stay there. I'd let it go at that. But it wasn't hard. And here's the thing, after the very first time that we did it,

it was such a hit with the people that Vince took it over. And then Bruce Pritchard, you know who Bruce Pritchard? Bruce Pritchard, of course. It was his job at first to get the girls. And he would just call a strip club. And they would send girls, yeah. And then it got over so fast that strip clubs would call the WWE and say, hey, you're in Connecticut, you're wherever.

We'd love to supply the girls. They paid the girls good, too. And then what happened is the strip club girls were getting so crazy. With no help for me. They were getting so crazy and wild on TV that bitch is like, we need to back off of these strippers a little bit, right? So we start getting actresses. Let me tell you something, brother.

The actresses were worse than the strippers. They were worse than the strippers. I loved it, man, but just a good time, bro. You also had wrestlers that were coming up that were playing hos. A lot of, I hate to say names, but a lot of the girls, like Lita. Yeah. Lita was one of the hos. There's a bunch of them.

Like, wasn't Victoria one of the hos? Victoria was one of the main hos. Yeah. It was because back then there wasn't the ladies division that they have now. Yeah. And so there wasn't a lot of girls where they're like Lita to wrestle. And I know Lida regrets doing it. And she actually did it as a favor to my wife because she had nobody to wrestle with.

And my wife kind of like asked her she'd go out there with us to have somebody good looking. And that's why she did it. But it was, you know, I think we just, the girls didn't have anybody to wrestle with and wanted to be on TV. So sometimes they were host for the night. There's lots more to get into. But first, I want to say a big welcome to our new. sponsor Blue Chew. Yeah, we are on board with Blue Chew guys, and they are hooking you up in a big way.

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CVV at checkout to get your first month for free. Just pay $5 for shipping. your first month for free. What a great way to kick this off with Blue Chew. So if you've ever been thinking about becoming a member at bluechew.com, do it now with that code CVV to get your first month for free and just pay $5 for shipping. When did you start to realize that the godfather character just wasn't going to work anymore in the way that, like, I guess going to network and like just the way that the world was kind of shifting? when they said you can't be on Saturday morning, you can't be on Sunday morning,

you can't be on Monday night till after nine, you can't say this, you can't say, you can't call the girls' hose, you can't say pimping ain't easy, you can't definitely can't tell people to roll a fatty for pim, daddy, it got like that. And I swear to you, Vince came to me one day,

and said, Charles, I'm fighting for you, brother, I'm fighting for you, but they're on me hard, and I knew they were. And I knew they were. So until that day that he called me to the office, he said, this is what we're going to do. I just went, I'm not having fun no more. And so I told the wrong person that, you know what,

I'm quitting, I'm out of here. And somebody told Vince that I was going to leave. So the next thing you know, me and Buller, tag team champions. And I mean, I'm a little guy. I'm not going to leave with the belt. So they kept me there a little bit longer. But as soon as they took those belts off at me, it was time for me to go.

Was there some animosity that you had gone from this super over character, this baby face as the godfather, to now being the good father doing stuff you really didn't enjoy and you're getting mega heel heat? My answer to all these questions is I hated it. And it was nobody's fault. It was just hard. I know it's a work, but it was so hard all those years being yourself, not a character. You're going out at TV and just being yourself. and they're having fun and you're making money

and then all of a sudden they take it away from you. And I remember being in the office with vits. And it's like, okay, we're going to do this. We're going to do that. And I'm like, so I, no more hose? And he goes, no more hose. And I'm like, so really, no more hose? I said it like more times.

He goes, no more hose. And I'm like, and I'm not a pimp. He goes, no, you're not. I mean, I'm like, well, I don't want to do this no more then, you know? But it was time. And then they tried to bring him back later in life as an escort. And this, but it... Yeah, what were we calling the hose later on?

Um, what were they? They were escorts or something or something or something. Or maybe just girls, maybe? I think it was not an... It was something I don't remember. I heard in another interview you said that you took a lot of this out on Stephen Richards or Stevie Richards. Oh, oh, yeah.

Yeah, I did. But, I mean, no fault of his own. None of his. I haven't seen him since then. But if I ever see him, I'm not a bully. Believe me, I'm not a bully. But I wasn't nice to him. And I took it out on, yeah, I was in a bad place.

I was in a real bad place, man. And I blamed him. With the amount of conventions you're doing, signings you're doing, appearances you're doing, your paths are going to cross eventually. Oh, hey, I'm sure he's heard the story about me. I think he was in the... We can FaceTime him after if you want. I have his number.

He probably doesn't. He might have just thought I was a dickhead, you know. I don't know. But I'm not normally, but I was mean to him. I remember one time Shane was doing an interview. I think it had to do what Adam. Chandler was in it and Sandler was in it. And Shane was directing it and Stevie Ray was supposed to smack me. And I told him, like, you smack me. You know, I told him what I'd go do to him if he smacked me.

So he wouldn't slap me. It's slap me. And Shane kept getting so bad at him, but he never slapped me, man. But it was stuff like that. I took it out on him, and it was not his fault. It was just, I had to blame somebody, so I blamed Stevie. You mentioned earlier that you were managing Cheetahs. You're not anymore.

When did you realize that chapter of your life was over? When the club sold three years ago. Okay. And I put that money in the bank, and I'm like, I'm done. Man, it's almost like you were, like you could see the future because strip clubs were not a great thing in 2020 if you were still running. No, no, no. The business has changed a lot.

The business is, you know, young people have changed, and so is the business. And it was time for me to get out. And I'm happy, had a lot of fun with it. I'm sure you did. I'm happy I survived it. It surprises nobody when they find out that the Godfather was managing Cheetahs in Las Vegas. Not only was the Godfather managing a strip club, the Godfather was managing a strip club in Las Vegas. Yes. Yeah. Oh, boy. Oh, my God. What do you think is the biggest thing you learned about people from spending so much time in strip clubs?

I learned. There's a lot of assholes out there. How about that? A lot of drunk assholes. What I learned, I don't know if I've learned anything from people. You definitely see a different side of people, though. Yeah, but I mean, over these years, you always see the bad side of people and they're drunk so you can't. take down on home. It's just, it's just the business that I don't care for anymore. I don't know of any good that I've seen from it. Besides making some money, I don't see anything good from. Yeah. Well, I think you make a lot of money. The women that work there make a lot of money. I always heard a joke that the difference between a server at a strip club and a stripper at a

strip club was two weeks. Is that pretty accurate? You don't know how true that is. You have no I know how true that is because you get a good looking waitress and she'd make a couple hundred dollars, two, three hundred dollars. And then the girl that she was talking to all night made two grand. So, yeah, I would be like, you ain't, we're going to have her long. And if you don't let them dance, they'll just go someplace else and dance. One the, and she's gone, man, I guess I could do it, right? Like, do you have to convince the, did you, were you probably the hiring process?

I was, I was never, people think I was a bouncer. I was never a bouncer. I started off as a bartender, manager, part owner, general manager. When I was at Cheetahs, I mean, at the end of my wrestling clear, I was still general manager of Cheetahs. Yeah, no. Were you part, like, were you the one that to do the interviews? No, I didn't. I never did that.

But was this where you were working when you got discovered or when someone was basically like, hey, you should get into wrestling? It wasn't a strip club? It wasn't a strip club, but not that one. Okay. It was the crazy horse that was on Paradise. Okay. And they were filming a movie called Over the Top. Of course, Sylvester Stallone.

Yes, sir. Yeah. And a lot of those guys in that movie were wrestling extras or, you know, wrestling guys. Scott Norton was in it, other guys. Well, they would, the MGM was right down the street. They would come to my bar where I was bartender manager. And I was just a monster, bro. I mean, I'm not big like, I mean, I'm 60 years old now.

You look great, by the way. Well, thank you. I'm trying. But back then. Then, I was a monster. I was a big biker. I was like a hard-for bike. And still had all the tattoos.

Oh, I had all these from way back then. Yeah, okay. So they would come in and they're like, dude, you should become a wrestler. And I was exactly, this is exactly what I said. I said, I want to do that bony ass wrestling. You know, I used to watch roller derby. Because in the Bay Area where I'm from in the 70s, roller derby was much bigger than wrestling, much bigger than wrestling. So they're like, well, you hear of this guy named B.

Bam Bam Bigelow. And I'm like, yeah, the dude with the tattoos all over his head. Yeah, he looks cool. They said, well, he made a million dollars last year. And I went, what? Wrestling? There's that type of money in wrestling? I swear to you, from that time right then,

and they told me to make a call to this guy in New Jersey and go to this place called the Monster Factory. Within a couple years from that call, three at the most, I'm in the WWE. No way. I was in wrestling school. It was a very short time. It was probably less, you're supposed to be there for months and months to learn.

I might have been there two months. And the whole time I'm there, I'm hanging out in strip clubs, getting drunk, not going out, I'm hanging out with the guy that runs the place. I think I actually went to a school three or four times. Jerry Lawler sees me. Mind you, I'm all, I'm black, I'm tattooed, I'm big. And they're like, Jesus Christ, we can make some money with this kid. So not knowing anything, Jerry Lawler books me on a contract in Memphis to go through a program with him.

My very first match ever. All I knew how to do was lock up with somebody and throw a kick. That was basically all I got to do. That's only the days that I went there. That's what they were working on. And so I went to Memphis and Jerry Lawler just basically said, hey, kid, do what I tell you. Listen to me and we'll get through this. and my very first match ever was against him on a Monday night.

Against Jerry Lawler. Yes, and he put me over, and I won the heavyweight title that night. My very first match. Derry first match. And now you can realize, in hindsight, that this stuff never happens. I was just different. I was different. I was different.

It was nobody like me. What do you think they saw you? I'm a good athlete. My personality, I speak well. I don't know. I mean, everything you're looking for, I'm basically it. You're also like a great salesman. Like, I know you're constantly selling yourself, but I think that's the key. Like, how could you not like this man?

Plus, I'm not a bad guy. It's honest and real. It's not a phony act, you know. Yeah. And anybody that knows me out there, I say, oh, no, he's just like that. It might have to do that I smoke a lot, too, though. Even back then? Yeah. Yeah. I tried cannabis. And I'm, cannabis, hope we get into a little bit of that because cannabis is a very big part of my life. When I was 27 years old, I'm Papashango. I'm taking Vicodins, Vicaprofen, Placadales, Percocet, Somas, Halcyon.

All right, drinking a bottle of Jack Daniels with that. But cannabis, I ain't trying that stuff. Well, I tried it for the first time at 27 years old. And I was like, whoa. and legs don't hurt as bad as I used to. And I'm like, you know what? My arm. You know what? Then we went and ate. And it was probably McDonald's or something.

That was the best burger I ever had in my life. And back then I was a lot meaner than I am now. And it just kind of made me a nicer person. It made me more creative. It was a positive thing for me. Okay, so I always tell people, I tell you what marijuana is done for me. It might not do that for you or somebody else. but for me it got me off with them.

I still drink. I take no pain pills. I eat much better. I try to take care of myself. And I just stay positive. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. soccer podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clevenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup.

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How close do you think we are to having weed legalized all across the country? My call's five years. It's coming. So when you came in here earlier, you said your knees are really banged up. Yeah. You're actually going to get double knee replacement surgery. Yes. How much pain do you think you'd be in?

It wasn't for marijuana. I would be a mess, seriously. I would be on pain pills. I would be drinking more. I'd be on pain pills. The CBDs and all that stuff, it really does work for me, you know. But I do have a large intake. How large are we talking?

I smoke a lot. I mean, I smoke a lot. Do you smoke more than RVD? Yes. Wow. that's a mic-draw moment right there. I smoke a lot. I didn't think anyone on the face of the planet smoked more than him.

I smoke a lot. Do you think you smoke more than Snoop? Snoop's a, I don't know. I don't know much of Snoop smokes. I mean, I think he smoked a once. I'm more of a dabber. Okay. I don't know if you know what that is.

I do. But I'm dabbing more most of the time. I probably go through, I shouldn't say. I smoke a lot. It's okay. You can say. I probably go through three, four grams a day. A week of concentrates.

Probably an ounce of weed. Wow. That's about it. That's about it. But that's most, I do a lot of bong rips. I don't roll. When I get up in the morning, every morning I told you I get up really early in the morning. Every morning I roll up a big old fat joint with a funky field tip, a be real funky field tip.

And you're smoking your own strain? Yeah, most of the time. You know, I smoke others, but my strain's really good. Feel free to plug it, too. My strain, I have with Be Real has Dr. Green Thumb dispensaries in California. I think there's seven of them all throughout California. I've done a collaboration with him where I've picked out my own strain and was there through the growth and change,

and we found one that I really liked, and it's called Insane Godfather. And it's illegal. It's legal in the dispensaries in California. It's called Insane Godfather. I also have some pre-examined Godfather. I also have some pre-rules coming out here in Nevada. I might be smoked train or Godfile. I'm not sure.

But I have some chocolate bars. I have a lot of stuff coming out. And, of course, you know, I do my wrestling stuff. But I also do engagements where I speak to people about cannabis and what it's done for me. And there's a lot more to it than just getting high. And but that's a benefit too. Yeah. So is that the biggest part of what you're doing in your business right now?

is is marijuana oh yes by far how much wrestling do you think you did while you were high um i'll say medicated that's no say hi well medicated i would say basically i i've smoked every day by license i was 27 so take it from there every day so you wake up every day like you said yes yeah and then it's throughout the day too uh yes man this is great i i phone function well on it, bro. I mean, clearly. If I told you right now, I'm pretty coherent, right? Absolutely. If I told you right now, I've probably had 10 dabs, probably 10 bong hits, and at least three joints today. But I've been up since 3 o'clock this morning, though, would that seem excessive? That would kill most people. Let's see that's, you know, anyway. Not kill them, but you know what I mean. Incapacitation. Do I seem okay?

You seem, yeah. Like I said, it works for me. There was another wrestler. I won't tell you his name on the air. I'll tell you. afterwards that I couldn't believe how much he smoked. We were driving around the city and he was smoking. And I was just like, wow. And he's still, you know, just perfectly coherent. You know, like I said, for pain also, bro, I've raced motorcycles, not motorcross, but desert racing, like Desert 500. Me and a couple buddies did that one time.

Football, basketball, fighting. I really think dirt bike riding tore up my knees more than anything. Because I was so big taking a beating. And we're going through the desert, man, 70, 80 miles an hour and just, you know. But it's just, it's taking a beating. It's time to get them done. When do you feel like you were officially retired? From wrestling?

Yeah. It's been a while. I mean, I don't think I've had a wrestling match since. It's probably been 20 years. Almost, I think. Yeah, I mean. But did you go into the last match going? No.

This is going to be my last match? I went into the match. No. Something came up, but I probably went or said, Vince, it's time for me to go. And he said, okay, Charles. And then they finished me up. That's what I knew. Once they finished me up, I think I had like, they were paying me.

I was just sitting at home. So they finished my contract up. And once they do that, I knew I was done. And at that point, my knees were bad then. And that's 20 years ago. But I just feel like after the new knees, you could you would be a great royal rumble entrance no they tried to get me but no for what i couldn't do it for which rumble um they it's been a few years but they'll call me because they always interested

in me coming out maybe come out first as uh as comma with the haircut you know yeah and then go back and come out as poppy shango bald yeah and then come back get thrown out and come back Godfather the girls at the end. Just like Mick Foley. Yeah, they've talked about that, but I think they have a problem with the girls now, bringing the girls out like that. What if you were the godfather with the cane and the hat,

but without the girls? No, that's Godfather like me. It was Godfather without the hose. Come on, man. Come on. I guess it's Godfather 2020. I really moved on. I mean, cannabis.

I still do a lot of wrestling. conventions and shows, but I don't wrestle. I don't get in the ring, but it's cannabis. It's really all my attentions towards. How often do people want you to sign an autograph as someone other than the Godfather? Papashango, depends. I mean, you'll have four or five different pictures in front of you. You'll have comma, Papashango, Godfather, the nation of domination, good father. I mean, so it's mostly, it's mostly Godfather and a lot of Papashango. remember growing up and seeing Papashango and being scared. I think a lot of people were scared

of Papa Shango. Right. We were a kid. Of course. I now look back and there were a lot of people that were not a fan of Papa Shango. And I was, I was actually really surprised to find that out. You mean wrestlers or people? Yeah, wrestlers. Oh, yeah, they hated on me, man. Why? I was going to, it was like when the road warriors came in with the face paint and the muscles and stuff. was a gimmick. I was going to ruin wrestling, this and that, but I didn't care. And most of them, you know, they were, anyway, I didn't get into that. They probably would have messed with me more, but they weren't, they couldn't. I think when you put a spell on Ultimate Warrior, people were like, I just, I can't believe this. But they did. You did as a kid, didn't you? As a kid, absolutely.

I would have been nine, maybe 10 when that was happening. Right. And being skisks. And also being, man, I hope he doesn't put a spell on me. I used to tell kids, be careful when you go to sleep. You're not going to dream. I'd say, you're not going to dream of the ocean. You will dream of Papashango. And you will dream of death. I'm terrified.

Bro, you'd be surprised. Every now and then I paint up and I meet people your age a little older and you like shake my hand and you shake my hand and they're like, I know I've grown now, but you have no idea how you terrified me as a kid. Seriously? Yeah. They're like, dude, I'm still a little weird about you. You were not Charles for those 30 seconds.

Papa Shango. I think they went a little bit too far with the spells and stuff. But that's like I said, I was going through a really bad divorce and I wasn't in a really good place and Undertaker was basically in Rikishi and Yoko Zoolah and the Godwoods at Savio Vega. They were all babysitting me every night because I wasn't this jovial person you see in front of you right now. I was there's also this guy called the Bear. The Bear is not a nice person.

That's another version of you? Yeah. You'll hear Undertaker call me the Bear a lot. I have my nickname. Probably more people know me in Vegas as Bear than know me as Godfather. Do you still talk a lot? to Undertaker? I talked to him a couple days ago.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So, well, we text. Sure. Yeah, I mean, we'd stay all the time. Would he be one of your biggest mentors in the business? Of course, yes. Or Ron Simmons also.

Sure. More Ron Simmons, because Ron Simmons was older and he had done it before us. And me and he paved the way. Yeah, me and Take were just really good friends. And that did a lot of the same craziness together. What do you think is the biggest thing that Ron taught you? Business, business, how to get the most out of, how to get the most out of what you have. And realize that there can only be so many stone colds.

There can only be so many rocks. It can only be so many undertakers. So you got to make the best with what they're allowing you to make the best with. And that's what the Godfather did. I took what I could and I ran with it as far as I could. Yeah, I did an interview. with Gangrel, who's a good friend of mine. Yes, love that guy.

He said something so insightful. He said that the reason the attitude era worked is because everybody had a storyline. From the bottom of the card, all the way up to the rock and Stone Cold and The Undertaker. And I would have to think that that's a reason why the attitude error was so excited.

Everybody had a storyline. That's true. From the beginning of the card to the end, everybody had a storyline, and it involved the audience. And they don't do that no more. Why, I don't know. It probably has to do with money.

And you probably want your top stars making the money the most. And I don't know. But everything changes. Yeah, I don't know either. Everything changes. I changed things, you know, when I came out and they hated me.

So I don't hate on anybody. Yeah. I'm glad there's more places for wrestlers to go and make money. And that's it. I'm not here to critique what they're doing today. I'm just, hey, whatever they're doing

it's what the people want to do. No, they wouldn't be doing it. Yeah. Can you take me back to over the edge? Because I don't know if a lot of people remember this. You were supposed to face the Blue Blazers that. Yeah, yeah.

At what point did you realize that something was wrong? Owen, man, I had spent that whole day with Owen was such a great dude, bro. I mean, when I went to Japan for the first time, I was in Japan for six months. Owen was there. He taught me how to take the train, order food. get to the dojo that I spent seven months in Germany. Owen was there taught me the same thing, how to get the transportation or cabs.

He was to come down the dearest thing first, and I was supposed to come out with the girls. Yeah, from the ceiling. Yes, I was behind the curtain. I was doing my normal, okay, girls, I had a normal speech because every now and then the girls would fall or trip, and they would feel embarrassed. So I would tell him, if you fall, this is what we're going to do.

Don't worry. you can't do anything wrong. Whatever you do, I'll cover it. So just have fun. And I was going through that speech with him. I'm like, the most important thing is to be fun, you know, have fun. Don't worry about anything else. And then all of a sudden, whoever was over here, I want to say Bruce Pritchard said, Owen failed.

And I'm like, Owen, what? He said, Owen just failed. And I'm like, Owen, I didn't register. I'm like, Owen fell for what? And then everything went down, you know. Wow. Then I seen him, then next time I seen him when they willed him through the curtain, you know, and I was just like, wow, it was just, I don't, my wife remembers more than me,

because I guess I called her right after and told her everything. And I don't remember a lot of things I said, so I was probably a little bit shocked. Yeah, but good dude, man, it was just sad. And, like, there was probably a lot of chaos, but you were about to go out through the curtain. Your match now isn't happening. How, who made the call? Do you remember who made the call to like, all right, God, are Charles your matches and on?

Well, we're going to move on with the card. At that point, you can't just, you can't just put a match together like that with the girls. And you're going to have to at least grip some of it. Yeah. I was just, I don't remember, to be honest. Wasn't he supposed to win the title? Yes. Yes.

He was going to win because they realized they put the title on me, but on me the title didn't mean anything because I had the girls. And so all the title was, was because I had such a show, it wasn't really a wrestling show. It was a Godfather show, right? Yeah. It had nothing to do with the wrestling party. It was the show before or after people wanted to see. So the belt didn't mean anything.

It was just something that the girls carried out. We didn't put up. It was nothing. So they were going to take it off of me and put it on Owen. And I don't recall. People in the comments section are going to kill me for this, but who did you then drop the title to? I don't remember. Wow.

I think, you know what? I think I dropped it to Jeff Jarrett in Memphis. Something like that. I think it was Jeff Jarrett. Wow. Yeah. What do you think is the thing that most people remember you for? Obviously, it's the godfather.

But what's the thing? Is it the match? Is it the promo? Is it? What is it? I think it's just, it's going to be the godfather. Sure. It's going to be my personality.

and it's going to be, you know, my body of work, man. I mean, I was involved in so much stuff from Papa Shango and the warrior. Yeah. Okay. To the nation of domination with the rock. Yeah. To the whole attitude era, to Godfather, I was always in the mix. Somewhere I was always in the mix.

And so if you look at the body of work, man, you know, I thought you went back to the Hall of Fame. I deserve it. Oh, absolutely. I have the body of work. I might not have been the most polished wrestler around, but I was a hell of an entertainer. And you were one of those characters that even if you just casually watched wrestling in the attitude era, everybody knew

who you were. And that's not a bad thing. Well, that's the best thing about it. Like, I think the best thing in wrestling is get over. Right. Right. And you got over. It's not about how many matches you win.

It's not how many titles you win. You're memorable. And the hardest thing that, I'm going to toot my own horn for a minute. Toot, but the hardest thing is to get over without their help. Right. It's one thing when they were, they're trying to get you over compared to you just, I was, dude, I was, as Godfather, I was never scripted ever.

They didn't even ask me what I was going to say. And if I was wrestling you, we'd do the match, little, I mean, the thing is, is you'd have 10, 12 minutes. It would take me six minutes to get the girls in, do my little spill, get the girls out, So we'd have like three minutes to have a match. And then I would still have to get the girls back in the ring, win or lose, to dance with the referee or dance with somebody. So it's just, just, it's hard.

It's just, I was having such a good time, bro. At what point did you know that The Rock was going to be a huge star? Vince, well, this isn't one of a bit. I'll tell you when Vince told us, when they put me in the nation, I was supposed to, I was coming to TV, had been off for a while. and I was coming back as Papashango. And it was going to be a more serious

Papa Shango, not the spells and people throwing up. And it was going to be more wrestling. And Jerry Lawler had did a... Jerry Lawler is an artist. I don't know if you know that. Yeah. He did my face paint, and we had a new character. And so we got the paint on and we take pictures and stuff.

And they say, hey, Vince wants to talk to you. They're like, what? Okay. So I go in there and talk to Vince and then says, Charles, change your plans. And he goes, tonight we're going to put you in the nation of domination. We're going to call you Kamah Mustafa. You and Faruq are going to wrestle Undertaker in a handicap match,

and you're going to go over. And here we got you something to wear. That's how I became... Wow. That's how I put in a nation. Now, mind you, I got there to be Pavichanga. Yeah. And you know what I said?

What? So I'd get paid the same, right? Yeah. I said, that's all like, okay, well, they're cool. And then I asked Ron Simmons, I'm like, you know what's going on? And he didn't really know what was going on. And then, like, the next TV, Vince pulled us into the office. And he basically said, do you know this kid?

I mean, like, yeah, yeah. And Ron knew him. I didn't know him that well. I'm like, I knew of him. I think he was Rocky My V or something like that. He goes, well, listen, I'm going to put him in the nation of domination. I'm going to bring this one in. I'm going to bring that one in.

He goes, once I get people to, hate this kid he goes when i turned him he's going to be the biggest thing wrestling ever saw and that's what he told me and ron he goes this is what i need from you to and then he kind of set up what we're going to do and and that's why i knew at the end of the godfather i knew that was in them because he very talked about it when i started the godfather so yeah but he uh i mean yeah he was a hell of an entertainer was fun building you know it was fun building that up with him at the beginning me de lo mark henry ron it was fun special Oh, my God.

They were, like, younger than me. So they actually kicked me out of the car. You know that? They kicked me. Who kicked you out of the car? I can't say Mark Henry for sure. I must say Delo and the Rock kicked me out of the car. What'd you do?

Like I said, I tend to smoke a lot. Okay. All right? So I would tend to get in the car and smoke also. And so the Rock came to me and he's like, hey, big dog, man. I can't ride with you no more. I mean, well, they don't catch you ride with me no more. He goes, dude, everywhere I go, I smell like wheat.

He goes, I don't even smoke wheat. He goes, and I tell him that, and they're like, okay, okay. And they say, next time they see me, they're like, dude, you tell him you didn't smell like weed again. So he goes, I can't. I'm like, well, okay. So I think I jumped in with Ron and John, the Acolytes, and then Mark Henry, Delo, and the Rock started writing together.

You know, yeah. I've interviewed The Rock a bunch of times. He told me his most memorable promo of all time is when he turned on the fans, he's like, you know, when the fans were booing him, Rocky sucks. And he cut that promo where he was like, the Rock's a lot of things, but sucks as in one of them. He told me that's the greatest promo because it was him finally officially, becoming the Rock and turning heel. He's done a great job, bro.

He has. I'm not mad at him at all. I'm glad like I said, I was glad to be a part of the beat start of it, you know? Yeah, I'm glad to have been a part of this. ride on the HOT train here. What's the best way people can connect with you or follow you? I'm very active on Instagram. I am the godfather on Instagram. That's where you'll buy me most of the time. Just be it silly, a lot of smoking stuff. It's really for fun. On Facebook, I'm the WWE Godfather. And that's about all the social media I do. But I'm really

active on my Instagram. It's really up to date. Who's the most famous person you've smoked with? that you can tell us. That I can tell on? That I can tell on. There's not a lot of people that you can tell, yeah. Yeah. Will and Nelson. Oh, there you go. I don't know if it gets much bigger than then.

Well, this interview stops. I'll tell you a couple more. I end every conversation with the same question because I'm all about gratitude. And I can tell from the smile on your face that you are. are a very grateful man. What are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? My family, my life,

and this is going to sound weird. My dogs. I love my dogs. What are your dog's names? We have Colise, who is an all-white pit bull. We have Abigail McGillicuddy, who is a Brindle Pit bull. And this is so sart, sad.

I had to just put down my shango. His name was Shango. He was my boy for 14 years. I'm so sorry. And we put them down around six months ago. Wow. And I love that dog. But I think I'm about ready to get another boy.

But yeah, man, I love, we love our dogs because now me and my wife are empty nesters for the first time. Dude, I don't know if you ever come to my house, knock before you come in, because my old lady's buying as hell. And we both walk around naked, so I wore it all my friends. If you come over, knock before you come in, you're coming here, hey, we're empty nesters now, now and the dogs ain't going to tell. Can you give me, can you slip into the godfather here?

Give us some advice or just some words. Or just, you know, cut a little promo or something. How about if we do this? Okay. It's time. Once again, for everybody to come aboard the Hootray. Man, let me look around. Is there any Pips of Fitness House?

Well, to all y'all, the. know that the godfather be pipping hose nationwide. Man, I want you to roll a fatty. Both this pimp daddy, light that blown up and say, PIPP isn't easy. Man, what an honor. Thank you. Oh, nothing but fun, brother.

I appreciate you, man. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning

only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of but get up in here. The Jim Rome show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.