Insight with Chris Van Vliet - The Miz: 20+ Years Of AWESOME, Headlining WrestleMania, Tough Enough, Maryse, The Rock

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

The Miz (@mikethemiz) is a professional wrestler in WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Washington, DC to discuss his unlikely journey from reality TV to WWE by entering Tough Enough, getting kicked out of the locker room and how he was let back in, winning the WWE Championship and defending it against John Cena in the main event of WrestleMania 27, finally getting his flowers, whether he feels respected from the fans, that iconic Talking Smack segment with Daniel Bryan, how he met his wife Maryse in WWE, a possible babyface run, and much more! Please support our sponsors! PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv AMERICAN FINANCING: NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.196% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-721-3300 for details about credit costs and terms or visit https://Americanfinancing.net/Chris SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Flee! How do you want to start it? I guess we're starting it right now. Are we starting it right now? Is that how you want, that's how you want to start it? You don't want to introduce, you don't want to do a whole... Do you need an introduction? I do need an introduction.

I would like to know what your introduction of me would be. Right here right now? Right here right now. You don't get to look at your notes. Just off the top of my head? Off the top of the dome. What would it be? Is it a two-time Grand Slam champion?

It is. Wow. Wow. Did you not know that? No, I did know that. Then why would you say, is it? Is it just your interviewer coming out? Everything has to be a question. Everything's a question.

Okay. Yeah. But you're introducing. I'm introducing. Ladies and gentlemen. Okay, here we go. Should I look at you? I should look at the camera.

Look at the camera. Okay. Make it really big. Ladies and gentlemen, this is a man who needs no introduction. One of my very first wrestling interviews dating back to my time at W.O.I.O.O. in Cleveland, Ohio. He is a two-time Grand Slam champion, walked into WrestleMania 27, the WWE champion,

walked out of WrestleMania 27, the W-WE champion. He is a future Hall of Famer. He is the Miz. Nice. That was really good. Is that accurate? I mean, yeah, those are all my accolades. Not all of them.

Some of them. You missed a couple, but it's okay. What are some of the main ones I might have missed there? What is it? Eight-time Intercontinental Champion, two-time United States champion, two-time Mr. Money in the Bank, Star of Marine 3, 4, 5, and 6, Santa's Helper, Christmas Bounty. And let's just say 10-time tag team champion, because I'm not quite sure. Sometimes people say, World and WWE, when they combine is this and that.

So it's hard to disciple which one is which. But though, I would say 10-time tag team champion. With all of that said, it's a hell of a career. It is a hell of a career, yeah. I've had a career that wasn't supposed to happen. Let's put it that way. At what point in your career do you feel like it wasn't supposed to happen? The entire time.

As soon as I started at UPW and feeling my first bump that I ever took, I was like, oh my God, this is rough. Am I really going to be able to do this? and then going through the three years of basically trying to go into dark matches, trying to get a notice from WWE or even Japan was very difficult. Trying to get any type of booking was very tough. I was getting booked on college circuits because I was on the real world. I was going to these colleges and everyone would always ask me, you know,

could you do the Ms? And I would cut promos as the Ms. There would be thousands of kids there listening to my speech, listening to my stories. And then I would go and perform in like back alleys for like 20 bucks. Not even, I wouldn't even get paid. It was front of 20 people. And literally it was like that kind of contrast.

But I was learning the art of professional wrestling while also doing speeches in front of thousands of people. You're preparing me. You are the absolute perfect embodiment of having a dream, chasing after that dream. And whatever is thrown at you, it doesn't matter because you are still. like just laser focused on that dream and accomplishing it. Yeah, but when you're doing it, you don't sit there and you go, oh, I'm, I'm accomplishing this dream. You're just, you're going through it. And like, it's funny. Like now you see like on like TikTok or Instagram or any type of social

media, you'll see like, yeah, you don't see the grit, the grind, the blood, sweat, tears. You just see the championships. You just see the final product. And you're like, oh, that must have been so easy, but you don't realize all the stuff that everyone has to do to go through it. people don't realize like you when you're sitting there talking about, you know, matches or who you like or you don't understand what goes through. You find out through Unreal a little bit of behind the scene stuff, but you really don't understand what a superstar in WWE has to go through in a match while everything is going on.

And so it's such a science and such an art form that is unlike anything out there. And there's no, what do you want to call it? Like, no rush quite like it. Do you remember the feeling you got when you were told you were going to be on tough enough? Because that must have been the first break, right? So that was first break in wrestling. Yes.

First break was real world, then the challenges. And I kept doing all the Ms. stuff on those challenges. And so I remember the call, Ty Bailey maybe. Is that the talent relations person? Maybe. So we, I wanted to try out for tough enough season two because I found out,

oh, hey, they're doing tough enough. I didn't realize they were doing it. And then when I found out they had a show, I asked MTV, I said, hey, I want to try out for this. And they were like, you can't try out because back then you couldn't mix match, unless you were a real world challenge,

you couldn't mix match reality shows. It just wasn't a thing back back. They were both on MTV. They were both on MTV. And they were like, it would be confusing, this, that, the other thing, so I couldn't do that.

So I had to stick with UPW in Los Angeles, continue learning the art of fresh wrestling. Plus, I wasn't sure if I really wanted to be on tough enough because I started hurting rumblings because I was kind of, I guess you'd say in the know of wrestling, like I would hear stories that if you were on tough enough,

you weren't respected. And I wanted respect, right? Like, I felt like people were going to see me on a reality show and instantly say he just wants his 15 minutes of fame, which, by the way, I did. I'm not going to lie, but I did, I do love, like, I love the, like, I guess being famous or doing things that get a clap. If you, a pat on the back, maybe it's because with my childhood growing up, dad never, like, patted me on the back and said I was doing great.

I don't know what it is, but I kind of always like that. Whenever there's a camera around, I always wanted to be in front of it, no matter what. Like, even when I was in high school, I remember when news was around us. Like, I remember being in like watching the Cleveland Guardians play. And we were at some sort of like concert venue to watch them play because it was sold out in the stadium. And I remember there was a news and I ran down just to try to get on the news. And I was like, poke in my head, you know, and showing my tommy socks. And I ended up being on it.

And I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. Then cut to what people really don't know about. I don't even think. But I'll tell you. I was on a show before the real world on MTV. I went to spring break. And I was in college, went with a bunch of my college buddies. And I saw the MTV spring break was there.

And I was like, oh, my God, I got to be on this show. So I went there and I went through the casting. It was at Fat Tuesdays and they were like, they said, what would you do to get on TV? I was like, anything. What you need me to do? They're like, would you eat a bunch of peppers? Yeah, no problem. I'm not a spicy food type of person.

So it ended up being census access of spring break. It was me versus a guy that was getting his tongue pierced. A girl that was flashing the camera. And that was it. So it was us three. I ate peppers. I swear to you, I ate so many peppers. You could see the red just start forming from the juices of it.

I'm telling you I was crying. I was, the entire week was ruined by this census act of spring break. But I thought I could win, right? I thought I could win on spring break. when the girl was flashing the camera and she ended up winning. What a surprise. I know, what a surprise.

And I ended up having to put like ointment on my skin because it was burnt. But you got to be on TV. But I got to be on TV. And so then when I tried out for the real world that next August, I almost, they almost didn't want me on the show because they heard, they thought I just like,

I just wanted to be famous. Right. And so, but luckily for me, I went through all the interview. and made it on the show. And once I made it on to that show, yeah, back to Tough Enough.

So I wanted to try off for Tough Enough. They wouldn't let me do Tough Enough. So I started doing that. And then I got a call from WWE saying, hey, would you like to try out for Tough Enough? We're doing it in Venice. There's 50 people that will show up and you have to just try out. And I said, absolutely 100.

Well, actually, I think I said yes or I might have said, let me think about it. And I called Rick Bassman, who got me in touch with Simon Dean, who was also from UPW and was on the show at the time. And I remember asking Simon Dean. I was like, dude, or Mike Bucci. I was like, would you do this? Like, I want respect in the business. Like, I don't want people to look at me as like the tough enough guy and just I'll be out in like, because you've, you watched the tough enough people.

they get they back then yeah they they got it right yeah and they weren't respected and everyone wanted them out and if you they wanted you out you're out yeah and i think maven would tell you that yeah if they want you out they'll get you out and so i knew i needed people to teach me inside the ring and i knew i needed the respect and if i went on tough enough i wouldn't get that and he was like dude have you gotten your foot in the door at all? I was like, no. He goes, it's for a million dollars. It's a million dollar tough enough. It's a lot of money. Oh, yeah, but like, I'm not really, this is going to sound really weird. And it might be to some people, but like, I wasn't, I don't care about the money. I see the big picture. I just need my foot in the door. And every time I would

go backstage for dark matches, they never would pick me. They never wanted me. People knew who I was. I remember me working out with Charlie Hollis and Shelton Benjamin, and I remember Bill DeMont walking out going, Real World's here. And I was like, oh, man. And I remember, I was like, oh, man, maybe they know I'm on the real world. Maybe they can kind of, I can utilize this. And then I remember everyone had to get out of the ring and Taker wanted to see Chris Masters wrestle. And I remember Chris Masters just looked like a, he looked like a superstar, right? and he was like 20 something and he was in the same class that I was in right and uh and they

tried him out and he got a contract I didn't right so I was like wow man I don't know I'm gonna get a contract you know ever so tried out for tough enough and tough enough was tough uh the first day was like 500 bumps just bam bam bam bam all right flip bumps boom boom Boom, boom. I remember a guy was like, I can't remember he was like Green Beret or the Navy Seals or like, there was some sort of armed forces. Dude was stacked, tough.

And I remember him calling us to his room and he was, he had ice everywhere after that first day. Like he was like, he was just blown up. Like the, his everything was just like his elbows were like, like just total inflammation everywhere. And he was like, dude, I'm quitting.

It's like, whoa, that fast. So one guy quit, and then all of us were just stuck together from that tough enough crew. And we'd go out every night. And it was tough, like all the things like going backstage. And I think during that time, not think, I know, during that time, we're coming on to tough enough. Were there like to take a segment out of Smackdown, which takes a segment off of someone in that locker room. Not only that, they fired like 18 people that like the first day we were there. And so we walk in and were these guys like, hey, I knew, but none of the other guys

knew. They weren't trying to become W superstars. Some were like, you know, they were doing all different sorts of things. But I was trying to be a wrestler. So I knew. I was like, oh, man, this is not good. And so they put us through the ringer. on tough enough, but you had to earn it, right? You had to see who wanted to be there. And I made it all the way to the end, but I'll never forget, like, when Daniel Puter's name was called.

I was like, oh, man, that was my chance. And I always said, like, if you have a microphone, you have a time to, like, really get the crowd back into you. And I didn't do that. like, I don't know if I was an experience enough where I just felt the emotion so much that I couldn't think. But like when they gave me the thing, I just kind of just said, thank you everyone and kind of shook hands and like didn't really encapsulate that moment. You know, I was just, it was heartbreaking. So I get backstage and I, Tommy Dreamer comes up to me and goes,

you're probably going to get a contract for developmental. I was like, oh, man, it's all. Awesome. Then I thought, okay, if I go to developmental, I need to be on TV like in a year, right? So if I'm in a year, MTV called and said, hey, we have another challenge. I was like, maybe I shouldn't do this contract yet. I should get on MTV's the challenge again, hopefully win that thing. And then I'll be on TV for a year. So the fans will never forget about me being on So I kind of told WWE, I'd like to wait like a couple months, you know, just to get my bearings back and everything. I don't know why I said that because that's dumb.

Like they're offering you a contract and you're like, yeah, I'll do it in two months. This is your dream job too. Yeah, this is my dream job. But I also knew like I had a fan base and I wanted to keep that fan base. And I also wanted closure with MTV. And so I went on the Inferno part two. I won. And while that show before.

that show even started airing, I signed my contract for WWE. And then they were like, yeah, you're going to have to move to McDonough, Georgia. So moved to McDonough, Georgia. And it was a brand new territory at the time. Oh, man, it was in a shopping plaza. Like, we were right, like, right next door to, like, like, any type of shop you would see at a shopping plaza. And who was in, who was in developmental with you at the time? Festus or Stinking Freaking Deakin or a good brother. You know, it was Nick Mitchell. Do you remember Mitch?

Yes. He was my roommate. Yeah. Man, I remember promo classes with that guy. Like, living with that guy was a whole thing. Like, talk about a character and a person that would literally, you look at and you go, this guy's going to make it because he just has all the charisma in the world. And I'll never forget his.

promos were like, you know what? I'm so tough. I can take a paint gun right to the, right to the, right to the, right to the, right to the body. And then literally someone would stand there and he, they would shoot him with a paint gun. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Like, this is by the way in our promo class. So someone is shooting a guy with a paintball gun. And he said, that's how tough I am.

Big time Nick Mitchell. Yeah, what a dude. So then. So then the next day, he would come in and he would have a beer bottle. And he's like, you know how tough I am? I'll bust this beer bottle over my head. Ready? Boom.

And if anyone knows, beer bottles don't break like they do in movies, right? They just don't. So he just kept, wham, whap, wha. That's how tough I am. Big time to admit you. Yeah, what to do. I was like, oh, I was crying, laughing. My promos were like, I would change it up every other time, but Paul Heyman was always there for the promo class.

And it was such an education to have him there promo class. And I mean, he just, the little things that he would teach you, you know, and motivate you. And kind of highlight the things you do well, low like the things you do poorly. And then work on the things you do poorly to make sure that it can be something that you can do and harness in and lock in. So when I was at Deep South, remember Bill DeMott, which, by the way, it was very difficult. It was one of those type of training where they're just trying to weed out who's, or either weed out or prepare you for everything.

And that's the way I looked at it. Like, Deep South was to prepare me. Like, if I can make it through here, I can make it through anywhere. And it's true to this day. Like it was the hardest thing to get there. And then to get to WWE, like I was just, I was ready. There was no way you were going to blow me up in a ring because I've been through Bill DeMott. You know, there's no way that the pain was, I mean, every day I'd wake up and I'd go,

just one more day. Just one more day you can do it. One more day you can do it. This is the dream. See the big picture. See the big picture. And I remember like there was a bleachers over on the side. And if you were sick or injured, you would sit on the bleachers.

I was like, I'm never sitting on those bleachers, ever. I'm not getting on those bleachers. You'd see guys be there. I was like, I'm not, I'm going to prove myself to everyone. People would come down to help teach us. And it was a very good learning experience. I became like, and Bill, I remember Bill saying, if you can sell out here, then you have to sell out.

And like, the way it used to be was you would sell out a territory, then you go to another territory and you could sell out there and then you'd make it all you'd work your way around the territories and you'd finally make it to the big one right this is kind of how cheap your magnet your setting is yeah is that what it is that's perfect it's right there yeah beautiful it's okay it's not gonna work we'll make it work hey this is the type of by the way if you thought we were in a great story you thought this was really really nice this thing's falling apart I get a bed over to my I'm telling you the bed is folded up. Like every time I watch, every time I watch this, by the way,

I see such great backgrounds, great lighting. You really go all out. And then I get here. I'm in the tiniest hotel room with a bed that is folded up because he didn't want to see the bed in the background, but he wanted to con you guys and believing that he has this big studio. This is a beautiful shot. In-sike, Chris, man, believe you look at me.

I have the best podcast and wrestling. Oh, I'm better than everybody. It's got a bed right here. There's a bed to my right. They can't see it. I can't touch it. You can't see it. It's a beautiful shop behind you.

Who was that with my amazing story? Do you even remember? Probably not. You probably had a question in your head while the whole time I was talking for the past 15 minutes. You're in here, you're listening. You're in here, you're listening. Yeah. And you're saying that all, you never wanted to sit over there.

You never wanted to. Okay, yeah, yeah. You out there. And if you could sell out here, you could sell out anywhere. By the way, you've asked like one question. It's amazing. For like 30. minutes. I love it.

So, okay, so deep south, Bill DeMont tells me, he goes, hey, he tells everyone, like, if you could sell out here, you could sell it anywhere. We were selling out. Not only we were selling out, we were turning people away. And I ended up being the first deep south heavyweight champion, which is crazy to think. And if I was selling T-shirts before anyone was selling t-shirts. It wasn't a thing, but I had t-shirts and I was selling out of my t-shirts. And not only that, like, it was like, it was awesome. Like, it was so cool to start a promotion, have our first show, go out, put at the Walmart and, like, put flyers in, making sure that people would see us and then to come in there and have sold out then the next week turning people away, then the next week and the next week and the

next week in the north way. And the first, the first way we did it was we built a tournament and you had to make it all the way. And no one knew who the first champion was going to be. Like, I thought it was going to be like Mike Knox or Derek Knightcurt. And when I got the nod, I went, wait, what? It's like, yeah, you're the most over. I was like, whoa, baby face, by the way. Complete baby face. and became the Deep South Heavyweight Champion. When that happened, I got moved from Deep South to Ohio Valley Wrestling. Paul Heyman actually was the person that was like,

all right, now you're going to go to Ohio Valley Wrestling. So he's going to move me over there. So I moved. I was there for six months at Deep South, and then I moved to, yeah, I moved to, yeah, I moved to Ohio Valley Wrestling. Oh, on another story, I was supposed to, when I first got to Deep South, writers came like maybe the next week to talk to all of us.

And one of the writers came up to me, Krista Joseph, and was like, hey, we have this idea for you and Matt Capitelli. You'll be reality check. You'll be a new tag team. It'll be fast. It'll be fun. So Matt Capitelli came down to Deep South. And we never met, never talked.

and once we tagged it was electric. It was awesome. Like I was like, oh my God, like there's chemistry here. And this guy was, he's so good, so nice and fun. And so we got in the ring, we did a whole match, and we were going to get called up. I remember we were going to get vignettes. And I was writing vignettes. I had a whole, I used to, I still do, but I mean, I just write everything on paper and like

write whole programs down. and just give it to them and be like, oh, my God, I have this great idea. And they'd be like, okay, yeah, great. So we had these vignettes that we're going to air. We were going to be the reality check, just causing chaos amongst everyone, the entire taggedy division. And we're being young, up and coming, like, here we go. And so the day before we're about to do the vignettes,

Capitelli broke his ankle at a live event in OVW. And so that was put on hold. hold. So then I would be put on live events for WWE to get me ready to get me prepared with Chris Cage. So I'd be tagging with Chris Cage. And so me and Chris Cage started tagging together. And it was great. It was awesome. But we were waiting for Matt Capelie to get better so we can do the vignettes. And then I got called to go to Ohio Valley Wrestling. One for that, for it to be with Matt. but also to do, um,

uh, Paul Heyman wanted me there. So moved to Ohio Valley wrestling six months in. I was the first ever deep house every champion. And when I first got the title, literally the next week they were like, you're going to Ohio Valley wrestling. I went,

but I just got the title. This is crazy. So, uh, had to fulfill the obligations there, moved to Ohio Valley wrestling. And then, uh,

something happened, like Matt Capitelli, um, got a tumor in his head. and could no longer wrestle anymore. So that tag team went away. And it was sad, man, because he's such talent. I mean, if you talk about a person that would have definitely gotten over in this industry,

it is Matt Capitelli. Oh, man, was he so good and just smooth and, like, fun to watch. So then we went to, so I went to Ohio Valley Wrestling. they were trying to think, all right, do we want him as a tag team with Chris Cage? We're not sure, but let's just put him in with Chris Cage, went Chris Cage for a little bit in Ohio Valley Wrestling. I think we won the tag team titles. I can't remember, probably.

I think I've won so many titles. Come on. I mean, what are we talking about? So then, but you know what was interesting? I was a baby face in Ohio Valley Wrestling, but they weren't clicking with me. Like, it wasn't like I went, I went to the territory in Deep South, and everybody loved me as a baby face. And I went to Ohio Valley Wrestling,

and it was just not as big. You'd walk out, there would be a reaction, but it wasn't the reaction I was getting a deep south. I mean, and so I don't know if it was because it was brand new, and I was something that they haven't seen, and it's like, oh, this is our guy. And then you walk up there, and Ohio Valley has been there forever,

and they've seen everything. And it just wasn't clicking. And Heyman, I remember sitting down, he's like, you know why it's not working? I go, why? He goes, because you're a heel. I don't know, man. Deep South, I was the most over baby face. I was selling merch, boom, boom, boom, you know, he's like, you're a heel.

So I remember Heyman writing the promo and me looking at it going, okay, can I add this, this, this, this, and this? He's like, yep. So I go out there and I do my first heel promo. And I was like, oh, well, I'm a heel. Like, I like this. And when I think of the Miz, I think of you as a heel. Duh. Right.

Yeah, I haven't been a baby face. Not really. No. There's been flashes here and there, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My character doesn't really work as a baby face, if I'm being honest. Sure.

Like, it's a person that can lose and then the next day you'll forget about that loss. Because I'll just cut a promo and just make you believe. But with the baby face, babies can't really lose. Like, a lot. If a baby face loses too much, you lose, and everyone always says like, winning doesn't matter, winning doesn't matter. It matters. It really does matter. And especially if you're a baby face, because in my opinion, if you're a baby face and I'm a kid out there, my kids always ask me, did you win?

Did you win? Did you win? And I always have to go, ah, daddy didn't win this week, but you know, I'll get them next week. You can only say that so many times to a kid where they're just like, I want a winner. I want a winner. I want to cheer a winner. People like winners. People like first place.

They don't like second place. They don't like third place. They want the guy, their guy. They want their guy to win. So if he doesn't win, so that's why I feel like my character, it's like I'm so good at losing and then making you forget about that loss. and then making you believe the next day that I can beat the biggest superstar in the world.

I could lose to whoever. Guy comes up from NXT, Javon Evans, and beats me. Next day, I can be in the main event. I can go up against John Sina. Not anymore, but I can go up against your biggest superstar and I can make you believe I can beat that person. And you will believe that I will beat that person.

But as a baby face, it's a little tough. It's been weird these past couple of years, though. I would say this past year has been weird. In what way? In what way? So the things I do that I know in my Rolodex of being a heel and being a bad guy, I'll do. And it doesn't get the boo anymore.

Well, because people want to cheer you. There's an immense level of respect for you now. So, yeah, sure, we will boo you. fans will boo you because you're saying healish things, but it's like, ah, the Ms. is so good. Like, we got to cheer him. Yeah, but you're not cheering me. If you're going to cheer me, cheer me.

If you're, if you're just going to kind of, ah, so good, I don't want that. I don't want that. That's the death because that's just, eh, I don't know what to really do. But do you feel the respect? Yes, I feel the respect. I feel it in the locker room. I feel it in the crowd. But I'll hear you say it.

Oh, Ms. Gotten his flowers. You know what kind of flowers I get? I get the ones that you like are half dead that you like give to me and they're going to die the next day. You don't give me a full bouquet of flowers that are like, here are your flowers. John Cena gets the flowers. I don't get the flowers. I get the half dead flowers that are like, here you go.

You know, here's your flowers. We're giving you your flowers. Why? It's the half-ass flowers. Why do you think that is? I don't know. I don't know. know. Maybe it's because, I don't know, maybe because I don't want them. I think, and with

great respect for you, you know how much I respect you. I think there's a lot of now of like, you know, Ms. is actually really good. It's like, no, no, we know that. We know Ms. is really good. I watched, I watched a Cody and Kevin Owen's podcast where Kevin was like, this guy, he was talking, they were talking about, and they were putting me over very well. And I was like, oh, wow, that's really, really nice. But, K.O. Oh, I remember saying, him saying like something like that he couldn't believe this guy was a main event of WrestleMania, like da-da-da. And then he got in the ring with me and he was like, oh. And he started doing the business.

Oh, now I get it. And I feel like I get that a lot. I get it where it's like a lot of people would be like, oh, yeah, it's the mid. And then when they get in the ring, they're like, oh, okay. Now I know how good he is. Like there's a certain type, like, and I've starting to know this now. there's a certain type of energy that I have, like, whether it's in a promo, pre-tape, or in a match that sometimes it's unmatched. And I literally, and I work, like, I work very hard. Like, if I get one

minute, still to this day, if I get one minute on the show in a pre-tape, some people will just be like, uh, okay, whatever. Me? No. Every, every word matters. Every segment matters. Like, I'll give you example. I was with Javon Evans and I was like, this is his, like, no one really knows him, right? Like, people know him. Nxte, you know who he is, but the masses, the masses don't know who he is. So we have to really make this kid because he's special. He truly is. Like, if you've watched him and you feel his energy, the kid has an infectious smile. He's got charisma. He's got the ability. And he's young. He's young. I was like, man, man, man, this kid's 21.

Imagine what he's going to be like when he's 25. He might be bored because he's so good at this age. And I was like, man, if this kid can keep elevating himself, keep getting bigger, keep getting just focusing, locking in, don't mess up, don't get injured. Like, this kid can be something really special in this business. And so we were in a pre-tape. Call me unc. And I was like, hmm, like, hmm, like,

reading it and I was like, oh, he called me, Unk, okay, what does Unk mean? Unk is, and I looked it up, it's like an older guy. Old? I was like, oh, we're going to make a meal out of this. So I had a goal. My goal was for the fans to chant Uncle Miz, or some sort of Unk or some sort of thing,

or something like on Twitter that would catch fire or whatever. It didn't by any means. But that was my goal. I said, oh, let's make a meal out of this. So he called me Unk, I said, don't go. Like, it could have just been like, like, um, blah, blah, blah, blah, and let it go. But I was like, this, this needs something,

something to, like, kind of aggravate me or aggravate you. We need to, we want to make a match this today. Yeah. It's a cold match. We need to make something in one minute, in 15 seconds. And yes, it's one minute in 15 seconds. That's all we get. If we went 1.30, you got to do it again, unless it's live.

So we do the 115. Well, we do that. And he called me unc and I, I was like, don't call me Unk. I'm not sure, Unk. And he goes, all right, Uncle Miz, blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, I wonder if that caught. I wonder if people got it.

And then I looked online because I always do. And it was like, oh, Unk, Uncle Miss, Uncle Ms. Uncle Ms. Now the crowd didn't chant it. A little bit, a little bit. The crowd didn't chant it. But it was a thing where I was like, that was the goal. Like, because you get one minute and 15 seconds to make an impact to literally set up this match between myself and Javon Evans.

get a crowd, swing one way, swing in another way. And it's crazy because that kid is such a baby face. You look at him, you're like, that dude, the baby face. And I walk out, and they're chanting for me. They're cheering for me. And I'm kind of going with it. But by the end, in my head, I'm going, they're going to be chanting for this kid. And that's exactly what happened.

So now my trajectory is different in my head. Normally I'm like, I'm just going to be a heel. I'm going to do boring stuff. so everyone hates me and doesn't like me. And now I'm more on the aspect of they're cheering me. They're cheering him. It does not matter. We're just going to go through it.

And I'll warn the person that I'm facing. Look, they're probably going to cheer me at some point. If they are, just let them. If they're not, don't worry about it. Because the way I'll work a match now, I'll just listen to a crowd. And if I hear them going really, really high with me, I'll just keep it. But if they're like, uh, kind of like teetering, I'll just flip it. and I'll make them cheer for the other guy.

Were you always that in tune to the crowd? No, Sina got me there. How? When I first started, not when I first started, I would say like three or four years in, I started, I got, I separated from John Morrison, which was an amazing tag team. For me, at least, I don't know for you,

but it was a very educational tag team because he was more experienced than I was, and he is more out-of-the-box thinker than I am, and he would make me do things that I normally wouldn't do, but since we did him, it was made it awesome. Anyway, I separate from John Morrison. I go to Raw, and they're like, your first feud will be with John Cena. Wow.

Excuse me? I'm wearing shorts, a fedora, a bandana. Like, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, this is it. This is the moment I've been waiting for. This is my chance. This is my shot. So every, and by the way, John Cena is not going to be here for the next like six weeks.

So you're just going to call him out. He's not going to show up. And you're just going to say, I win. One nothing, two nothing, three nothing, four nothing. Went to like seven nothing. And then I'm going to have a pay-per-view match, singles against John Sina. I'm thinking, oh, my God, I'm coming up with ideas. I'm thinking, oh, I can do this, I can do this, I can do this.

Literally, we called that match in the ring. John called the match in the ring. And he gave me, like, it wasn't a squash by any means, because I got heat on him, but it wasn't like he literally did his five moves of Doom and pinned me one, two, three, and then wiped the floor with me and walked out.

And I was like, oh, my God, it's over. I mean, all that work, all that work that I just put in, I thought I was really getting over. I thought I was really getting steam. And then he just mopped the floor with me. I remember going backstage and I see Aaron Anderson. He was like, great job, kid.

I was like, great job. That was like five minutes. It was not like, that wasn't the barn burner that you want to put on a paper view match like, oh my God. He's like, you're not ready for John Cena. I go, but I just, I just did all these promos. What are you talking about? I'm not ready.

He's like, you haven't been for the worst. I was like, I was a tag team champion. How, and by the way, I'm not. speaking to him like this. It was more like, those are your thoughts. But I was, but it was tag team champion.

Like, he's like, yeah, you're a tag team champion. You need to go through the wars to get to John Cena. You need to go through like years of just preparing yourself and going through and big builds of big stories that really get you to a John Cena.

You can't just walk in there. And I was like, oh, So now I had to go back down and dig deep and start building myself. Little by little, find stories, find ways to like make a story bigger than it was supposed to be. And I started doing that. I started getting the United States championship. Then all of a sudden I had the tag team titles.

I had three titles at one point. Then I had the money in the bank briefcase. And I was like, oh my God. Like I've got three titles. Money in the bank like, oh my God. Like I'm really doing it. Like I'm doing exactly what Arne Anderson told me for the next year. It was like a year, actually two years.

And when you had the money in the bank briefcase, did it come with a guarantee of like, you know what this means? You know that question. You're just asking questions just to get answers. But you know that question, like that answer. The answer is with money in the bank, it was always a guarantee. 100% when before I got it, it was a 100% guarantee. You were going to become the WWE champion.

You were the next guy. You were the one that was going to be put all the pressure and everything on your back. But the company on your back, you're the guy. Except when I won the money in the bank, everyone was like, he'll be the first to lose. As soon as I want it, he'll be the first to lose. There's no doubt. There's no way the Miz is going to be a WWE champion. Little did most people know that when I would walk into an arena at a live event, Friday, Saturday,

Sunday, I would gather the most heat. There was no one that had more heat than me. Now, people will say, oh, well, wait a second, he was more, oh, they might be more respected. They might be getting booed, but I wasn't respected. It was, it reminds me of like watching Logan Paul right now. No one wants to respect him. No one likes him. Everyone booze him out of the building. If I'm a baby face, that's who I want to work. That's who I want to go up against. I want my big match against the biggest heel, the biggest bad guy. And so I kept doing that. Like every live event, I would always ask, can I do a promo? Can I cut a promo? Can I get a promo? Yeah, you want to get a promo? Go, got a promo. I'd go out there and I would get that crowd. And it allowed me to like learn, right? It allowed me to

see what works, what didn't work. I would try new things. I would write promos down. Then I would go out and do exactly what was written, then I'd also do something off the top of my head to see if this would work. I would start utilizing everything that WWE was. Sometimes you'd get a script. Sometimes you had to do improv. So I was utilizing all these things. Then I was going like, hey, TR, do you want me to go do any type of radios or any type of things? Like anything that nobody wants, I'll do. So we would do Friday, Saturday, Sunday live events. Then Sunday night, I would drive from, let's say, like, Hershey PA to like Washington, D.C. That morning, we're done, by the way, at like 10.30.

Then I would drive five hours. Then I would have to get up at five in the morning and do media all day in D.C. Then I would do Monday Night Raw. And this was for a good, like, two years of just nonstop, that type of schedule. And then once I would come home. by the way, I was doing like raw and Smackdown. So I'd do like Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I would go home. And then they'd be like, hey, can you do this?

Yep, no problem. Yep, no problem. What do you need? What do you need? What do you do? And people started seeing that. Then started seeing that. And everyone, like, from the producers to, uh, to, to the high, like, even Sina.

I know Sina knew. And then, and so I was just doing all these different things to get myself ready and prepared. The goal of this business is to find as many tools as you possibly can for whenever you need them. I don't know when I'm going to need, you know, an acting tool or an improv tool, but I've got them all because when I won my first challenge, I'll go way back. When I won my first challenge, I invested all that money into moving to Los Angeles, into going to UPW paying $2,500 for UPW, getting rent for my house. I remember the way I would do. I found a nutritionist that I had to pay $100 for that he would give me my nutrition.

Then I would go to Gold's Gym Venice because that's where all the superstars were going. And I was like, I got to go there. So I'd ride my bike there. And then I had an acting coach, Stephen Anderson, on Wednesdays. Wednesday I would have Improv Olympics. Thursday was Groundlings. Like this was before I even got. So I was finding the tools.

What's a wrestler? what's a WWE superstar? At that time, no one really, like, talked about, like, the acting. Now we talk about it all the time. Like, we talk about all the, it's acting, it's improv, it's everything.

So I wanted to make sure, meanwhile, not to mention, I was going to colleges and speaking to thousands of students cutting promos each and every time, motivating students to go to college and do things, even though I never graduated college,

but real world was so much like college, the colleges would pay me to to their school and speak to their students. I looked at that as, hey, this is opportunity to cut a promo and see if I can move a crowd and get a crowd. So I was looking at all these different tools. I'm still looking for tools. I'm still looking for all these different avenues that I can make myself better in the ring.

So when I step face to face with someone in that ring, I know no matter what, this match is going to be great. The crowd is going to be entertained. when they pay their hard-earned money to get into those seats, they're going to be entertained, they're going to remember something from this match, whether it's me yelling at a kid or their favorite baby face,

high-fiving them, like they're going to remember. I'm going to make them remember. And so, because I want for years on end, like I want like 20 years from now, so I'm going to be, hey,

remember when we were at that WW live event and the Ms. yelled at you? And then the baby face hit him in the face. Remember that? Oh, wasn't that fun? Yeah. That was great. That's the goal.

That's the goal. You know, it's hard to believe that it's already been over a month since John Cena's final match. And I'm grateful to say that I was able to be there in person in D.C. With some amazing tickets from Seekek. And I want to give a huge shout out to Seekek for sponsoring this episode. With over 35 million downloads, Seekek is the number one rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed on Seat Geek, including concerts, W.E, sports, festivals, and more.

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follow and listen on your favorite platform. I love the passion you have. Like, I know that you grew up loving wrestling. Wait, wait, wait, you do this a lot. Doesn't everyone have this passion? Sure. You have it on another level, though. Like for you to describe, like, to be a great WWE superstar, I need a little bit of improv and I need nutrition and I need, not everybody approaches it like that.

Not at all. And for you early on, before it was a, it was even an idea that you might get a shot with WWE, you were trying to do everything you could to try to stack your resume so that you could look as good as you possibly could. So you maybe could possibly get a chance with them. I went on challenges and made everyone wear my t-shirts that said B-Miz on it. And everyone would always ask me to cut promos like the Mizz. Every time a camera was around on the challenge, like if they had to edit, if you had, if you saw the editing room floor, they would see a million promos cut by the Miz every single time. But the best part about the challengers, they weren't jealous of it. They supported it.

And they loved it. You watch those challenges. They're all wearing my shirts. I'm the reason that they no longer are allowed to do that. Like I just I said look if the rock is wearing his own merch Stone Cold's wearing his own merch I need my merch because if WWC's Hey this guy can sell merchandise then maybe they'll they'll hire me They'll get me um with all the bumps along the way all the bumps in the road

Did you ever feel like you wanted to quit um I ever feel like I wanted to quit I think there's always a side of you that like I'll give you an example, deep south wrestling every day. I said this before, but I don't think anyone understands. Every day, my body was in my mind.

Like your mind is like, it's like, if your body's hurt and you're tired and you're worn out and you know the next day, you have to go do the same exact thing, your mind starts playing tricks on you. And it starts telling you like, man, your body is hurting.

like and then you're trying to to watch as much v by the way i was trying to watch as much vhs tapes as i possibly could because i couldn't go on youtube and watch matches and learn from it and that kind of stuff i had like old school like headlock taken putting a headlock on for a half an hour like that did not work in this but i understood what the headlock was and why the guy person was doing it but you'd watch this match you'd go just did a headlock and this crowd is going nuts for a headlock. I go do that in the crowd. This crowd's like, what are we doing here? What do we do? A headlock? Come on. Give me something more. Like we want more. We want more. But, you know, I'd watch these VHS tapes just to try to get to get better, you know. And so and then going through

that and trying to think of like, oh, man, am I doing everything I possibly can? And I'm doing it. And I'm still not good. I'm still not getting to where I want to be. I'm not up on the top level. and when I get to the top level, will I ever be there? I mean, I remember in UPW, I remember sleeping in my bed and waking up and going, man, what am I doing? Like, what am I doing? Like, I go to practice every, like, all the time. I spent two hours, two, four, six hours a week practicing UPW taking bumps for nothing, for zero dollars. I'm paying them for me to get to hurt every day.

to learn this art of professional wrestling. Like, and then I'm going to perform in front of 25 people. Meanwhile, I got a thousands watching. I was like, man, just keep going. Just keep going. Keep doing it. And then there's something in back of my head, just keep going. So there's a bigger picture.

What's the bigger picture? What's the bigger picture? Keep going, keep going. Go to Deep South. Every time, I'm like, man, one more day. Man, one more day. Bigger picture, bigger picture. Then first getting into WWE, getting kicked out of the locker room.

What am I doing here? I'm a grown man. I'm a grown man, a W.W. Superstar, and I'm changing in a broom closet. I'm going to bathroom with fans, and fans are going, hey, I think I saw the MIS just going in the stall. And meanwhile, my music's about to play in five minutes. Like, was there ever a time I wanted to quit?

Yeah, but I don't quit. I've never quit anything. Like, challenges, I retired. I told them, I was like, this is my last challenge. I did the last, the final inferno two because I wanted to say, hey, this is it. We're done with this. And then I don't quit. And so, but man, there are so many times where I was just like, why are you doing this?

What are we doing? Like, if they're kicking you out of the locker room, they're not going to teach you inside the ring. But I just kept going because I was like, I know I can do this. Did you have any idea of when you might be invited back into the locker? room? No. Like did you think it'd be a week, two? No. A month? I had no idea. I knew the person that told me that, hey, you're kicked out of the locker room. He said, you're not coming in until I say so. Was that the undertaker? No. Hmm. No. That person went away. And so then when that person

went away, I was like, oh, boy, how am I going to get back in the locker room? I'm never going to know. So I had to wait another like three months before I was like, I asked take her. I was like, man, I've been out of the locker room for a long time. He was, oh, you have? I went, yeah, yeah, I've been out like for six months. What'd you do?

You know, I ate a piece of chicken in the locker room and it got all over. And it still believe it did not. But other people will tell you differently. Sure. And they can have their opinions. That is fine. I was under a microscope of let's get this guy. And a lot of times in a locker room, someone could, he had a piece of chicken over my thing.

And, oh, man, what do you doing? Why are you fucking, why are you doing this? And then another guy walks in, oh, wait, chicken over his bag. Oh, look at that. He got another guy walks in. He did what? Then another guy is outside the locker room. And then they hear it, he ate chicken over it.

And he got it all over the place. then by the time the telephone game played, I was throwing chicken all over the locker room. I was smearing it on stuff. Like, that's what it felt like. So, so yeah. So I went to take her.

I said, I got chicken, ain't chicken over a bag. How silly is that sentence? Yeah. I'm glad you're laughing. I'm glad you're laughing at my torment. But you must. Six months of being kicked. that of a locker room. But you have to realize

how ridiculous that must have been. It was so ridiculous. I'm a grown man. And people are always like, why don't you fight him? Why don't you stick up for yourself? Because back then, if I would have done something like that, I probably, like,

I probably would have been fired. Or I looked at it as if I stand up to this person who is a locker room leader and very respected, and the reality guy, steps up and talks and mouths off of that person, they're never going to teach me. I need them to teach me.

I'm not going to learn this on my, like these new up-and-coming NXT superstars as much as they're going to learn, and trust me, they have an excellent training facility and excellent trainers, but they're going to learn so much more by being in the ring with people that are, that have been there.

Cody Rhodes, you know, when you get in the ring with Roman Reins, you get in the ring with these guys, it's another level that you can't teach in front of your colleagues. Like, you can't teach you at a school. You have to teach it in front of an audience. And it takes reps and reps and reps and reps. They'll tell you it. They'll be the first to tell you it. And so I knew I needed reps with stars, with main eventers.

I can wrestle like a main eventer. So I can watch all the footage I want of it, but there's a difference between watching it and actually doing it. Everyone can watch it. Not everyone can do it. And you'll see superstars that you'll be like, how did they not make it? How did this person or this?

This is the reason. Oh, creative wasn't there. Oh, this wasn't this? No. You get one minute on a show. You better make the best of that minute. You get two minute. You get three.

whatever it is, you need to be found over. Some people are like, oh, well, that person was chosen. You got the rocket up the, no, there's a reason that person did it because they can understand and get to where they need to be. And when you have that WWE championship on your shoulder, there's a ton of pressure. As hard as Deep South was, as hard as UPW was, as hard as being kicked out of the locker room was, nothing is as hard as being the WWE champion having this company on your back, a billion dollar company on your back.

Cody's got like an immense amount of pressure and he's succeeding at it. Not everyone can succeed with that pressure. Most can't. Most will say, oh, I can do it. And most will complain about the fact that I could have done it. I could have done it. But they fall. They do.

They just do. And it happens. And you see it all the time and you wonder, what happened? What happened? I know what happened. You got like people like watching will never know because they don't understand the pressure of what a WWE championship is and what it does. Now, granted, you have a lot of help.

You have a lot of people going out of it, but if you're a champion that is like not, I feel like the champion needs to be the hardest worker in the room. And if he's not the hardest worker in the room, the people that are up and coming need to be that person, need to like make whatever title it is, the title, because we need something on the live events that people are going to pay money to see.

if that person isn't on the live events. Did you feel the pressure when you cashed in and became WWE champion? Oh my God, you feel it right away. You hold the title and you feel it 25 pounds. But you also feel, hey, if pay-per-view doesn't go very well, not a lot of hits, it's on you. So take me- If there's no one in the in the WWE arena, that's on you. So take me to that day, November 22nd, 2010. Mm-hmm.

You cash in on Randy Orton. Yes. What's going through your head that entire day knowing, oh my gosh. I didn't walk in knowing. That was a day of situation. Same with like when I won my second WWE championship, I had no idea. I thought I was losing the second. I thought the reason they took it off of Otis was so he didn't have to lose.

So they were giving it to someone that can just lose the money in the bank and be done with it. And then cutting to money in the bank the first time. I didn't know. It was Orlando. I walk in the arena and I got in a meeting with Vince. And usually I didn't have a meeting with Vince. But this day, they were like, hey, you got to meet with Vince. So that must have felt important.

Okay. Oh, I wonder what's happening. I'm probably losing. Honestly, I was starting to believe I was going to lose it. I did. Even though I had like, I mean, if you remember, I had three titles. Like, they were, they were giving me the rocket without me realizing I had the rocket. Right?

And most people didn't think I had the rocket either because even though I had three titles and everything like, people still are just like, go away, go away. So I get in there and he's like, we're going to put it on you. I go, oh, I'm like, oh my God. Wow. I'm not losing. No, we're putting it on you. Okay.

I'm going to do my best to make sure that this is. the biggest thing ever. Like, I will do whatever it takes. I know you will. You've worked hard for this. Like, I really have, and I'm about to work even harder. And so I remember k-faving everyone, not telling a soul. And I remember, I think I had a match that day,

or I had something where I had my gear on. And everyone was asking, like, dude, why are you still wearing your gear? Why are you wearing your gear? I was like, I'm just tired, man. I'm just tired. You know? And everyone's like kind of peeping over.

And I remember Randy going through the Nexus. Wade Barrett, everyone. It went through like that. And I remember the day because we had a promo class that day. And the promo class was about being animalistic. I think I remember, I think it was Wade and Seamus having a promo battle where they were barking like dogs. And sometimes, and the lesson, as stupid as it sounds,

the lesson is sometimes you don't need words to translate exactly what's happening in a match. And you need that raw primal. Like I need, like, and so I envisioned myself as like a wolf attacking. Like you ever see a wolf trying to attack and trying to, in the other person, person's trying to get away and you're just like it's it's locked in on the injury it sees the blood

when you see the blood you're going for it so that promo class taught me that so that's when i walked out and when i got into the ring and i remember i i was like a wolf like locked in saw the injury his leg was injured i was going after it and i was i could feel like and this is like whatever, you can call it acting or whatever, method acting. Like, I could feel like my mouth just watering for it, like almost foaming for that because I knew I was getting that title and I'm going to get that title. And so I went after Orton's leg tore it up, tore it up, tore it up, tore it up, you know, and he goes for his RKO.

I hit the move. And while I'm hitting the move, I'm going, yes, yes, yes, yes. Boom. One, two, three. It's real. It's real. Like, so many things go through your mind when a moment like that happens. It's like, you see pictures.

But, but, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You see, you know, as a kid watching wrestling, playing with my red, white, white, and blue ropes and flinging my action figures, going to Toys R Us, asking my dad, hey, Cocoa, where's that Toys R Us? Can we please, please, please, please, please go, go wait in line and get his autograph. No, I don't have time for that. you know, walking in and seeing which one I didn't have, I don't have Undertaker. I don't have, I don't have, uh, I don't have, uh, ultimate warrior yet.

I don't have this one. I don't have this color. I remember those that like, it's going through my head while I'm while, while I'm winning, like all this. And then like, you know, to do, to do, to do, to, going through meeting Hulk Hogan for the first time in, in Toronto and him asking me about the real world. That's going through my head. Uh, do, da, da, do, do, go going to UPW for the first time, meeting Rick Bassman saying,

hey, I'd really love to train here, uh, you know, know, $2,500 and you can train as much as you want. Absolutely no problem, paying the money. Going to Deep South wrestling, the hardest stuff I ever had to go through the blood, that sweat, the tears, then bu, blah, blah, blah, going through getting kicked out of the locker room, winning my first championship, tag team championship, almost getting in a fight the same day that I won my tag team titles. You know, United States champs, first singles title, oh my God, climbing up the ladder, you know,

climbing up, grabbing the money in the big briefcase going, oh my God, this is happening. This is the crowd booing, booing in awe saying, oh, my God, you just threw Randy Orton, our hero off. This is going through my, all of it while I'm winning, while I'm sitting there. This is how fast it's going through my head. Then to like, you know, having the money in the bank, everyone's saying all the critics and everyone online saying he's going to be the first to lose. We hate him. We don't want him.

We don't give it to another person. There's so many better options. Give it to DiBiase, give it to Cody, give it to someone, anyone but the MIS. And then going in there and winning and holding it up. And then you're like, oh my God. And then all those things go through. And then you feel the eyes, the water start to happen.

And you're like, no, wait, this is my first moment as a WWE chat. I kept crying. Can you get to cry? No, don't cry. Don't cry. And then so then what do I do? I get up. I go up to the top rope to kind of walk it off, you know, walk off those tears, like,

tears that are about to happen. I hoist the title up. And I'm like, oh, my God. I remember, I remember ARI hugging him being like, I did it. Like, we did it. Oh, my God. This is, I don't, I, you don't know what to say or do because that's not supposed to happen. That's a dream.

Dreams are supposed to happen when you're sleeping. Not when you're there. And this is the dream. And, and I walk backstage and. Everyone's clapping. Nowadays, no one stays after the show. Back then, everyone stayed after the show. It was mandatory.

And everyone was there. And everyone was clapping. And maybe they were made to do that. I don't know. Or maybe they felt compelled to do it. But, man, that was a really cool moment. Really cool moment to have all these people there. This is crazy.

And then afterwards, me and Maurice went to Denny. and I had like a breakfast slam to celebrate because nothing was open. And I didn't plan a party. So you remember winning the WWE championship so vividly. That's an incredible story. What do you remember from WrestleMania 27? I remember my entrance. I remember not seeing that vignette.

The vignette, I never saw it. Like so, and I always wonder if that, vignette that hate me now vignette so good it's i i still think it's the best people say rock in austin uh rolling or whatever i can't remember my way my way yeah that's it uh they say that one's the best i i beg to differ and the reason is what that vignette did in that moment and i wonder if that vignette was put on smackdown if there would have been a different feeling energy going in Because going in, I remember I was swallowed up, man. You're the WWE champion.

I'm going up against Titans. The Rock and John Cena, Titans. And then there's me with the WWE Championship. And then there's a lot of like, you know, back then it still is very, very competitive. But man, it was, everyone was fighting for it, right? Everyone's fighting for that spot, that main event spot. and I'm like, man, I want this main event. I have to get this main event.

This main event is everything. Like, we have to get it. I mean, I have the rock. I have seen her. Like, this has got to be it. But, I mean, there were so many great matches and great superstars on that card. It could have been, it could have went either way. So I remember, man, the leading up to it, the promos, everything.

Oh, my God. Like, I remember the promo I cut. where I walked out as the rock, I didn't think they was going to work at all. I went out, did the whole rock thing, and then I cut a promo, and I remember the rock calling me,

leaving a message being like, dude, that was it. That was amazing. That's how you step up to the plate, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, oh, man,

I'm ready. So then for the match portion of this, I remember seeing, Hate Me Now, vignette for the first time right before I'm about to go out. And I remember hearing the audience go, Like, and as I walked out, I had bubbles.

And in my head, I was like, bubbles. Bubbles? Like, awesome bubbles? Like, I'm, I'm the main event. I'm WWE champion. People get pyro, huge displays of pyro. I got bubbles. I actually ended up loving the bubbles.

Busted out, no one's ever done that. And then when I, I remember them saying you have pyro for like 30 seconds, so it makes you keep it there. I'm like, oh, man, this is going to be great. I pull up thing. They're like sparklers. And I'm like, I'm looking, I'm going, I thought these were going to be big. Huge.

This is freaking sparklers. It's like, all right, there we go. So remember that. Then I remember looking over to my friends, uh, and telling them like, literally like, we did it because I remember like, I remember being in in Parma, Ohio and Sandpiper and my condominium. And we'd watch every pay-per-view, ECWCWCWWE all the time. And I just remember.

all of us watching and they were all there in front row watching me with the w w championship that we watched rock and awesome fight for all the time and so i was like we did it i remember sena's choir it's like oh this guy gets a choir choir and then he comes out does his thing i remember i remember the heat spot if you will because it wasn't a heat spot it was just me beating up at beating him up in the corner i remember that i remember that i I remember the pop of the crowd when I kicked out of the AA. I remember me just, Sina sang when he had me like this,

just grab onto the ropes, kid, grab on the ropes. We got you, we got you. Boom, rock, boom. I remember Kyoto going, cover him, kid, cover him, kid. And I'm just like, huh? What's going on? One, two, three. Winning, and I remember Kyoto telling me,

throw your title at the rock, throw your title at the rock. I'm like, yeah, okay. Through the title of the rock, I remember the rock coming in. I got you, kid, don't you worry, don't you worry, we got this. Uh-huh, uh-huh, I have no idea. Boom, boom, boom, and then it was over. And then I remember, I see, I see stuff, you know, on the internet. I was like, I don't remember that.

I don't remember that. I don't remember being backstage and me just being like, was it good? I was like, oh, I don't like, I don't like seeing it. Like, I don't like seeing myself like that. but some people are like oh the what would you have done if they stopped the match i would have that would have been the worst possible scenario the worst possible scenario if someone would have stopped that match i was in good hands and i trusted the two people in there and i will

always trust them and i always be thankful for them all three of them it's not just the rock and sina kiyoda as well they all protected me they all looked at me and they all allowed me to do what I needed to do to make that whole situation of success. Is it true you came out at WrestleMania 27 with a replica championship? Yeah. Because you wanted to be able to keep the actual championship that you went into WrestleMania with? No.

Oh, that's not true. So why was it? It was a replica because they couldn't turn the upside down M and keep it that way. It just spun. And so that's why it was a replica. So were you always walking out with a replica? Yeah. Oh.

Ever since when it turned to an M, yeah. That was a replica. Interesting. Yeah. Wow. When you look back at everything, what's the thing that you're most proud of? Do you want the honest answer? This might not be the fun one.

The proudest thing I think was when Maurice walked into the room at the diva search. Like, think about that. I didn't know she was going to be my wife. I just saw this beautiful woman that couldn't speak English. Nothing. Zero English. And I remember asking her, like, I don't want a cookie cutter answer and her being like, what?

And then hearing her story and everything like that, like that, like that moment, man, being able to look back and being able to see my face the first time I ever laid eyes on my wife. now my wife yeah that's a cool that's cool that's that doesn't happen like you know like no one gets to say the first time i saw my wife you can see my reaction you can see me in awe of her but also playing the the miss character where it's like listen sweet heart blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, don't give me this cookie gun or answer. In my head, I'm going, oh, my God. And then, like, you get to see us kind of flirt when she didn't even speak English.

And, like, I mean, I love seeing that, that, you know, and then being able to walk down the, like, the ring with her at WrestleMania and wrestle with her and tag with her. That's cool. Like, that's awesome. I'll get to show my kids that. They don't care right now because they're too young. But when they get old enough, I feel like that's something that they're going to look at and go, wow, like mom and dad. Wow, they were pretty fun. How much do you think becoming a

father has changed you? Not the Ms. But Mike? I think it changes everyone. If you have a kid, everyone always tells you like, you don't know what it's like to have kids. So cliche. You don't get it. You don't get it. And then, and you're like, yeah, I do, man. It's like, just go out, like, whatever. Now you understand like everything revolves around their schedule. You're trying to guide them, but you're also trying to make the best for them. But you're also always in your head going, I don't want to mess them up. You know what I mean? I don't want them like they're not going to live the life that I led to build to where we are today.

I know that. How do I make sure that they're appreciative and thankful and sweet and nice and treat everyone with kindness. How do I, how do I get them to have a work ethic? How do I, how do I get them the other work ethic that I had? How do I get them to, to be better than my parents, even though my parents I thought were very, very good. Like, you always want to be better. And then sometimes trying to be better doesn't allow them to, to kind of grow. And so how do I balance that? You're always in your head going, how do I do this better? Especially when you're able to give them everything, right? Like, yeah, maybe you didn't grow up with everything. Now,

you're in the position where you could give them everything if you want. And you're like, should I? I don't know. Yeah, I know. It's like, but it's like people are always like, you see all these things. Don't spoil your kids. Like, I think spoil your kids. Spoil them with love, with everything that they want because, man, to see the smile on

their face. Now granted, you want to, you want to challenge them and make sure that they're doing the right thing. and that they're good at listening. But, I mean, yeah, I guess that's my whole motivation of kids. Well, thank you for making this happen. This is it? I could talk to you all day, but I need to get you out of here, right?

That's all you want. Right. That's all you want. Can we keep going? How much time is it? Oh, we have another half hour at least. Oh, we have another half hour. Huh?

I'll be on time, 2.30. Incredible. I'll give you more. You're the best. I'll give you more. Do you have more? I've got, we could literally talk for like five hours. You think?

For sure. You have five hours? I have a little bit of time. I got to say, I am proud of what you've been able to accomplish. From our first interview to now, like, you are the staple for wrestling podcasts. People look at you and are like, how do I get to that level? And you're, I think it's your questions. I think it's your passion.

I think it's your ability to text me every freaking week asking, hey, can I get you? Hey, can I get you? Hey, can I get you? Hey, can I get you? You're unrelenting. But that's what it takes to be successful. You have to be willing to put yourself out there and for me to say, not this week. No, no, you're okay with that.

And you've done a terrific job. Your questions are amazing. I always see all your, your clipping is great on TikTok. I have the greatest editor. You have a great editor. So whoever edits this, his name's Troy. Troy, you do a great job.

And you should be proud of what you do because a lot of the stuff I see, I don't watch the whole thing. I'll see clips. And you do a really good job. And you get answers that are not always out there. Thank you. And do you remember our first interview?

I don't know if you do. It was when you threw the first pitch out, progressive field. So 2011. Was that a strike? It was. It was like, you threw like 80, something miles an hour too. I do. Yeah. I'm pretty proud of the fact that I'm one of the only

superstars that can play any sport and dominate. And like literally, most people can just play football, but they can't throw a baseball. Like, I've seen people throw baseballs and I go, all right, I need to teach this kid a lesson. Like, my God, I can't go there throwing a baseball like that. I found out you were throwing the first pitch. I reached out to the Cleveland Indians. I said, would I be able to interview him before the first pitch? Sure. I got like three minutes with you or something. And I remember my assistant news director texts him in going, who's the miss? And then I put the photo up on Facebook of me and you and it got the most likes of any photo that week. And I wrote back and I said, you tell me who the message is. That's right. That's right. Yeah. And it was just like,

trust me. But that's the story of my career. That's like literally always. And then it always happens where it's like, oh my God, that was amazing. I remember when I went on dancing with the stars, And I was like, oh, I'm going to do, I'm going to win this thing. There's no way our WWFAN base, especially with WWE behind me, there's no way I'm going to lose this thing. And it was by votes. I come to realize that, like, we have a very passionate audience for wrestling. Hmm. For everything else, some will come over, but it is they want wrestling.

They want more wrestling content. They want to talk about wrestling. They want everything wrestling. So when a guy's dancing, I'm dancing with the stars, they're like, I'm not going to vote. I didn't vote. So I was like, oh, okay, all right, I see how it is. I didn't think I still could have won that one. When do you think you got to that point in your career where WWE could now rely on you?

It doesn't matter who we put you into the ring with. It doesn't matter what position on the card. We know that Ms. is always going to deliver whether it's a match, whether it's a promo in the ring, whether it's something backstage, he'll always come through. It's actually a lot earlier than you would think. If you remember, I would do Ms. TVs where I would ask questions, and then if they didn't think the person was good at promos, they would just have me answer their questions and put them over.

Wow. So I would have like a 10-minute promo of literally just interviewing myself by putting this guy over and telling them about all their accolades. Now, granted, this person can cut a promo. I knew they could cut a promo, but the higher-ups were like, ah, we're not sure about this. So you'll always see me do this.

So when I started doing those type of promos, I was like, oh, they, that, that, okay, all right. So, yeah, that's kind of been since, gosh, I don't know, 2017. 15, 15, 14, I don't know. Maybe even before that. Maybe even before. How did you get awesome over?

Awesome came from, I believe it was Transformers. A guy was like, I'm awesome. And I was like, oh, I'm going to use that. And I remember me asking Jen Bloodsworth, the writer at the time, I go, I'm the Miss and I'm awesome. You think that's good. You think that's good. I go, I don't think it's good.

I don't think that'll get over. I'm the Ms. And I'm awesome. And the first day I did it, I felt stupid. Like, it's like when you first start a catchphrase, you're going to feel stupid. Not everyone's into it. No one knows what it is. And it takes, I would say, two years to get a, of repeating, repeating, repeating,

to get it over. Some are night and day. Awesome to, I would say at least a year to get over, over. Probably not until it started leading your theme song. Was it like really? Yes. That was actually, I remember when I did that, people were like, dude, It's like Kennedy.

Kennedy! Awesome. Yeah. And I was like, oh, yeah. Kind of is. Maybe that's where I got it from. I don't know. It works.

I don't know if it was. But I remember people saying that. How much has your mom's support meant to you? Like, I remember seeing her in Cleveland. She would bring signs of like, I'm the Mrs. Mom and people would take photos with her because, you know, she was a star because she was your mom. She's been there with you every single step of the way. Yeah, she really has.

She, and she always, after everything, are you okay? Did you hit your head? Are you all right? I mean, I remember, I don't like seeing her face at WrestleMania. Like, I remember being backstage in the trainer's room and she was, I remember her, like, in tears. Like, oh, my God, is she okay? Is he okay? I don't like seeing that.

I don't. But she's always supported everything that I've done. Like, I'm always, she always says, that's my Michael. That's my Michael. And truly just proud and always a worried mom. Like, it's kind of, it's cool to have that. You know what I mean? And to see her with my daughters is even incredible. Like, they're like, I want to be Barbie. I want to be with Grandma Barbie. And like, it's like, it's so cute to see them together and watching them. Like, that's one thing that is big if Maurice and I is like family. You know, we,

Thanksgiving, we have the entire family come to our house. Maurice cooks an amazing meal, and family's a big portion of it. And I think it's the love I've had from my mom that I've been able to show to my girls, right? Yeah. So, yeah, it means everything. It's fun to actually put my parents in storylines. Yeah, you made your dad a star. He'll tell you he made himself a star.

WrestleMania 35. George Mizanan has a moment. I'm glad that you call him myzanon because he's the only myzanon. We're all Ms. Annans. He's the only myzanne. And my dad, I remember going over everything with him to the detail because I knew, I knew that he was going to mess up something and you cannot mess up something in my match at WrestleMania.

You just can't. And so I remember going over because he's a bad actor. If you've watched Ms. and Mrs. That is just trying to get, like, if that's him just living. life, that's not me telling him, you need to do this, this, this, this, this. I just, on Miz and Mrs. I would let my dad just go. And it always create comedy.

And so, WrestleMania happens. I remember being in Brock Lesnar's locker room because this locker room was huge. And half of it was Brock's and half of it was empty. And so I was in there with my dad on a chair and I was being Shane. and I want him up on, he was up on the, on the ropes and he called him out. And I wanted to see my dad's face. And he was like, whoa, ho, me, ho, hoo, who, who, who, who. I was like, no, you can't do that, dad.

You can't do that. You need to act natural. What do you mean? I'm acting natural. This is natural. Mike. Oh, oh. I'm like, oh my God, dad.

No, no. I'm going to be Shane. I'm going to call you out. I want you to just be like, all right, yeah. All right. You want, you want some? I'm going to give you some. Okay, and so I had to go, I'm talking hours.

I have a match that I'm going to be suplexing, Shaming Man off of a 20 foot scalfle. I have a match, but I am spending hours with my dad learning, teaching him like, all right, then you can get in there, just put you, you just, I forgot to say, to show him how to, how to fight. I forgot to show him how to put your dukes up. When I say put your dukes up, I'm like, you know, put your dukes up and like, and fight him, you know, like, you're going to fight him. And he's like, okay.

So I'll never forget. I was now, you don't know, I don't know if you know this because you know insights. But I was on the table. And this was in a time when we weren't a lot of blood on TV. I was bleeding profusely on the table. Like the entire table is covered in blood. Like it was, it was,

because he hit me with one of the TVs, TV monitors. they were big at the time they had their pointy he hit me and it just started gushing blood so the doctors are over there getting me to where i'm not bleeding anymore and they're like look if you start bleeding we have to stop and pat it up and everything i'm like you're not stopping just get this done we have time my dad's going to be in there like we had like five minutes so they're literally doing that i'm like do you have to staple it whatever you have to do just make sure i'm not bleeding and so meanwhile my dad is doing this and becomes the biggest meme

of WrestleMania 35. The biggest most talked about. There is no one more talked about than my dad at WrestleMania 35. I suplexed. Shane McMahon, 20 feet in the air. I was scared, petrified.

And we did that. And my dad was more talked about than that moment. Batista had his final match. Kurt Engel wrestled his final match. Yeah. And my dad, Kofi Mania.

My dad was the talk of WrestleMania 35. And let me tell you, he does not let me live it down. I was out there for five minutes and I became an icon. And you, it's taking you 20 years and you're still not as big as me.

Everyone still comes up to me and talks to me. Do you realize in Cleveland, he goes to every indie show? And by the way, pays tickets. I'm like, dad, you don't pay. They'll let you in. and I'm like and I'm like and he's like and yeah I sign autographs it's like no wonder they want

you there you're signing autographs taking pictures do you realize that most people get paid to do that no I don't want to get paid just give me some tickets my buddy Nathan Zagra who you know the voice the browns wrestled wrestled a match my dad brought 20 people brought t-shirts everything he's never done that for me ever ever like he's still asking for money for the t-shirt I made for him that says my mood and that he's like where's my royalties and I'm like what do you mean dad I made that shirt out of something that I thought you would like and be proud of I didn't do it for for money but if you want money I'll give it to you well you know it's like but then he goes to these independents and doesn't get paid for him and just shows up and just wants to watch the show

and just get noticed hello hello everyone when did dressing up like this become part of your gimmick Uh, that was, uh, I wore, I, I came out as a Calgary kid, uh, to, to, for people that don't know, maybe you do, maybe you don't. I was, I always dressed in shorts, uh, a fedora hat and a bandana. Cause I thought like, I saw like Kevin Federline wear it and everyone hated him. And I was like, oh, if they hate him, I'm going to try this out. So what I would do is I'd wear something to see if the locker room would hate on it. And if they hated on it, then I'm wearing that out there

because then the audience is going to hate it. It's actually pretty brilliant. So I would just test things out. Now, granted, I probably shouldn't have did that because people started believing that I believed my own stuff, right? Like, oh, look this guy.

Walking in here like that. I was testing things out, but I'm not telling everyone that. Like, these are my tools, right? So I started wearing the fedora and everything like that. And I remember I got fired by Jeremy Piven. And then to come back, I was going to have a contract on a pole match and I was going to wear a mask and I was wear gear because I didn't want to look anything like the Ms.

I wanted everyone to think that it was the Calgary kid and the Calgary kid was going to win a contract on a poll match. And I was going up against Eugene, which everyone thought he was going to win. He was going to come back. And so we do this match. I remember the match got cut by like five minutes. So we literally had to go through it like, boom, boom, boom. And I just had to grab the contract on a pole. And I remember them going, we're cutting.

We're going. I was like, no, no, no, let me take off the mask. Let me get up there and cut my promo. And they were like, you got to go, you got to go. And that's what people don't realize what's happening in the ring. Like there is a referee that is literally telling us, you got to go, you got to go. We have to hit this segment or we're going to miss crossover. And so it's like, oh, man, okay, no, no, no, please, please.

This is, this matters. And I remember winning and Calgary is going nuts. We got a guy. We got a guy. I take off the mask and everyone starts booing. I'm like, oh, this is perfect. You know, on the Miz and I'm awesome. That day, I walked back from that and Vince calls me over, he's like, you got great legs.

You should start thinking about wearing this type of gear. I'm like, oh, no. Like, my whole idea was I didn't want to look like everybody else. I wanted to be different. But it was the smartest thing I've ever done. because it made me look more serious. It made you look like a superstar. Exactly.

And so then once I started wearing that kind of gear, I started going away from, like, so I always wore like suits, but I made them like my style, right? I made them young. I was always wearing something hip and edgy. Think of like 2000s Dominic Mysterio, I think has a great style now.

Great look, like young, youth. cool, that's kind of how when I was first coming up is what I pictured myself like young, hip, cool. I didn't want to be stuffy in a suit walking around. I was like, no, I think the goal when you're growing up is you don't want to end up in a suit, right? And then I put on a suit that fit. It was tailored to me. And I started to realize, I was like, I walk a little taller in this feel a little different in this. And I was like, I'm going to start wearing, I'm going to start wearing the best suits I could possibly find. So that's what I would start doing. I'd start getting custom suits. I would start tailoring them to me. And I still, I, and I, I, I, I, I wore gear,

wrestling gear because I remember Lauren, I just texted me or calling me, go, hey, kid, you're wearing gear now. You're wearing, you're wearing, you're wearing speedos. And I was like, Johnny, the reason why I wanted to wear shorts is because I wanted to be different than everybody else. Well, try to be different with Spandex on. And I was like, oh, man. So I remember rushing to get, like, gear made that week. Like, and it wasn't like it is now where you can literally have gear made in a day. And it's like, I need it now.

And the people will get it for you. It was like, you had to find a person. And it was like, okay, please, just make this. Yeah, okay, great. So then made my first gear. My first one I think was black and then the next one was red. I still have them. And I remember kick pads calling punk and being like, where can I get kick pads?

He's like, mine are Japan, dude. I eat them now. Man. So I had kickpacks, but I had slides, things that slid over them. So yeah, that's how that the suits came to be about was it was mainly like a Vince call of me getting into gear. and it made me, and it was a very good call on my behalf. I'll pop my on the back by saying yes. That was like, I think that was also a test.

You know, like there's a lot of tests that people don't realize that you have to go through in this company to get to where you need to go. You know, are you a game player? Are you willing now, and by the way, back then, if you watch a lot of heels, they wore the same generic, black, like just black, generic. Like, that was the thing, like, Just wear black. We'll figure out something for you. And I always was like, no, now I'm going to be colorful because all the other heels are wearing black.

I'm going to wear red, blue, purple, like anything but black. But then I started leaning towards black when everyone else started going towards another way. You've been there so long that you've seen so many of your friends, so many of your colleagues get released. Did you ever think that maybe that call was coming for you? I think if you're yeah honestly every time every time there's a

a release I'm like oh no is it me especially when it's people like that have been there a long time like when Dolph Ziegler was released you guys came in around the sameish time are you like if Dolph's going to get released like maybe me

yeah yeah that was that was a tough one for me to see him go because it was kind of like the last of my like my really core group friends right i mean i have friends obviously in the locker room and that but that was like my core group of friends oh man like i've had such great matches with dulf too man like him putting his career up and me the icy title like that whole icy title reign that that was a he was a big part of like elevating that title as well right and during that time for me and so to see him go it's tough um um

But that's the name of this business. Like, man, like it happens. Like, those type of things happen. For me, like, this is going to sound very cocky and arrogant. I know how valuable I am. I know how good I am. And whether the audience sees it or not, I know people know. Like, if you've wrestled me, you know.

And so I, yes, there are always, there's always in a back of your mind. Oh, is it me? Is it me? Is it me? But then there's also that other part that goes, man, I've done a lot in this business I've done and I still got more. That makes any sense at all. Do you think about how much longer you can go?

Always. Yeah, I look at every arena and think, is this the last? Is this the last? No, no, you never know. I've always, like, I've done that for a long time because you don't know when your last night is. You don't know. Sometimes it just happens. Well, Cina does.

Cina got to do that. but sometimes injuries happen. Sometimes it's like you literally look at yourself in the mirror and you go, I did it all. Done it. Christopher Daniels told me every wrestler has their last match, but not every wrestler knows what it is. And that's so profound.

John Cena got to know on December 13th. That was his last match. But there's other people. It's just a random match on a live event. And then that's it. Yeah. But I'm, I literally look,

I remember Scott Armstrong when I first came into WWA, we were in Glasgow, Scotland, and we were on a live event, sold out. And I walked into the ring, and when I saw him, he goes, look around, kid. Look where you are. And I looked around. I went, wow, I never really took a moment to look around. So now, since that moment, I look around. So I'm always appreciative of every time I get to step in the ring.

I'm appreciative of the superstar that trusts me with their body. And I want to do the best I possibly can every time I'm out there for the audience. And when I feel that I'm not giving the audience exactly what they need, if I feel like I'm slowing down, if I feel like, ah, man, like I'm not, like, you always hear wrestlers say this. Like, I don't want to be that guy that people are like, nah, I feel sorry. for this guy. I want to be the guy that kind of like, like got out right when he, I read it the perfect time. You don't look like you've lost a step. No, I don't think so either. If anything, I feel like I gained a bunch. The new up-and-coming superstars that I get to get in the ring with the mellows, the Javon Evans, like the Dominic Mysterios, you know, you get in there with them

and you're like, man, like there's so much promise. But there's so much they don't. know. Like, they know a lot. They're very good, especially for the age, like, they're so good. But there's a lot they don't know. And that's one thing I wish we had more live events for. So Dominic actually got to go on those live events and he got to train with, I feel like he's the last one, the last one that actually got to go on live events and be with all the main event superstars that like can build him and show him how to do it. And now we're seeing the proof in the pudding, right? We're seeing like just an absolute person that has honed his craft and now is locked in and knows his character, knows who he is. When he does an interview, you feel like

you can get Dominic Mysterio or you can get that jerk, right, like that that we see on TV. Like you don't know which one you're getting, right? Like he can turn it on and off. He's that season, that well done. And so I wish like we had more live events where we could. could do that. But I feel like that our developmental process, our performance center, and what they're doing down there and able to do, are really preparing them way better

than what I was able to have when I was in a shopping plaza at Deep South wrestling. I had Brian Danielson on the show recently, and he told the story behind that Talking Smack segment. When you were going into that, did you realize how big of a moment that promo would be? No.

Not at all. Like now that he's, he's kind of like, we've always done this thing, right? Yeah. I don't like him. You know? And then I saw that thing and I went,

oh, oh, we're done with that now, huh? Okay. I can be done with it. That's good. I've had closure. So the way that one went was, I mean,

the way the story goes, that day was a bad day for me. I was just getting to Smackdown. I had the Intercontinental title. Two new titles were put on the show. I was off the show. I was told I was the dark match. I'm not on the show.

I'm the dark match. What? I'm the first, and dark match is the first match. It's the warm up match. I'm going to warm everyone up for the show that you're about to see. And I'm holding Intercontinental title.

The title that I loved as a child, growing up, I'd watch it and be like, oh, that's the workhorse. What's the workhorse doing? Workhorse is doing a dark match. He's not even able to have a minute on the show. There was this new show talking smack. Nobody was, nobody was, it was not, no one knew about it. Like, it was one of those shows that they just started. It didn't really have any groundbreaking things. Like, no one really was talking about it. And I was like, but Daniel Bryant was on it. He was the GM at the time. So I went up the road dog. I go, okay, can you put me on talking smack tonight? He goes, you want to be on that? Sure. Yeah. Why? Why? I go, he's the GM. Okay, okay, cool. So me and Daniel talked right before we had a couple things that we said. We're like,

oh, we'll go here, we'll go here. I'll call you a cow. Okay, cool. And so when we were in it, and I tell this story, but I was, literally I was doing an acting thing where I would, every time I I would have an outer body experience every time I'd have an emotion, if that makes any sense at all. Acting, what am I doing when I'm smiling? What am I doing when I'm sad? What am I doing when I'd always like, if we were in this conversation, in the back of my head, I'd be like, what am I doing right now, you know, while I'm doing a conversation

and in an interview? Oh, my hands are doing this. That's the mind frame that I was always in in that year, just trying to figure out how to be a better actor and more smooth and everything like that. So I was doing that. And he starts and he calls me a coward. And there's something about the way that Daniel Bryant calls me a coward that's different than every time you hear someone call you a coward. You know, you hear it all the time. It's the standard bear. You're a coward, you know. But when he said, he's like, you just, and then he said, I think he said Russell Saw or something like that. And I was like, this.

who like something even right now like I feel it I feel the heat um and so soft like okay so then I remember like going like getting really angry like really angry like so angry that when he walked like I thought he was going to hit me I really did that was the plan he was going to punch you in the face he's going to punch me in the face and a really like like really punch me and I was ready for I was like like, all right, let's go. But when he walked off, I went, it made, like, it was one of those moments where you're like, he just, this is the story of my life. Like, I have something going.

I have something doing. And you just walk away. Like, oh. Like, and then, so I had nothing to turn to him. I'm going to turn to Renee, Renee to, to, to, to yell, no. Am I, my wife? No. There's a camera.

Go to the camera. Go to the camera. Go to the camera. and just start unleashing. And then that's, and then I just went black. Like, I don't remember it.

And everyone who says it's the best promo ever, like, I hate it. Like, I think I'm bumbling words, but the reason I'm bubbling words is because I'm so angry. And remember in the back of my head when he walked up, going,

I'm going, I'm going to lose it, I'm going to lose it, I'm going to lose it, I'm going to lose it. I lost it. I lost it. It's one of those,

it's one of those scary moments. I don't know if you've ever lost it before. Oh, yeah. But it's scary when you lose it. it and you don't remember anything you said, anything you did. When it was done, I walked off and I had, I was out of breath and I was so mad. And I remember everyone was like waiting to leave. And everyone was like, what did I do? What did I do? I remember getting a text from Vince and

Kevin going, we're popping right now. That was awesome. That was amazing. Great job. And the numbers for talking, people started watching talking smack. It was a show that no one was watching, everyone was talking about it. And by the next week, I was the first person you saw on Friday Night SmackDown. And so if people think that's your best promo and you don't think it is, what do you think's your best promo? Hmm. And be at a live event.

Okay. Yeah. Live events were my best promos because I didn't have any handcuffs. I didn't have any time restraints. I didn't have to get anything. out. I could play with the crowd. I could do things that I don't do at, like, I do promos on live events that are not, uh, WW, like TV that ever, ever been on TV. And it, they're fun, they're exciting. So all my best promos, I would say are on live events. You caught a promo and you

shared it not long ago on Instagram where you're in the ring with John Cena and Roman Raines. And you're basically saying like, you guys don't even have a championship and like, I don't have a match. what's going on here. That felt so authentic. Like you were speaking from your heart. It was. It was very authentic. I was, uh, yeah, I mean, it's one of those things. Like I was trying to make that, that title matter. Like the champions weren't there. No one was there. I was there. And I had the intercontinental title. I had the only title on the show. And I'm trying to make this title matter and, and be something that it was when I first, I first came into that business. what that title was, was you get the title and you just lose all every, every week.

It doesn't matter. He's still out the title. There's no story. There's no program. There's no nothing. So when you get an opportunity to be in the ring with a John Cena and a Roman reins, who are just like, that's standard bear. Like, they are the poster child children of WWE at the time.

And I'm able to say whatever I want, I'm going to make it matter. I'm going to make it make you feel it. And that's, and then the audience was so valuable in that, moment. They were so good in that moment because they were getting it. Like they understood and they were like, and I was able to play with them as well. When you're in the ring with Sina and Roman, you kind of are able to kind of play, right? And so, and when you know you have an audience, the way you have the audience, you say, okay, let's go. Let's let them in. I love the way you approach wrestling and thank you for just always being so kind to me throughout my career. Have I been kind?

You've, off camera, you've been kind. But like from my first interview with you 15 years ago to now, like, just thank you and like congratulations on an incredible career. And I said it in the impromptu intro that you made me do, but your future Hall of Famer. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. And thanks for this. I appreciate it.

You know, I love the fact that I get to watch you talk about who Cina's last match should be and then my name is not even mentioned. And I love seeing those type of things. I did. You just didn't see the clips, I guess. You did not. I see the clips, and I see who you say. And in my head, I'm going, ah, you're texting me.

Oh, my other thing, favorite clip was, who's your dream guest? Meanwhile, he's texting me every week. Will you be my guest? Who's this dream guest? The Rock. John Cena. Is the Miz even mentioned? No, I'm not.

Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it, pal. Well, I appreciate you doing this. And I'll ask you the question. I've never actually asked you this. It's the question I ask everybody at the end of an interview. What are three things you're grateful for right now? Do wife and kids?

Is that one? That's up to you. You can put that into one. I'm grateful for family. There you go. My wife, my kids, my dad, my mom. I'm grateful for to be able to be, to call myself a WW superstar and have the career that I had and be able to share the wealth

of knowledge that I have with the younger generations because I think they need it. And I didn't realize it at the time when I was in my 20s because I thought I knew everything. And when you get in the ring with like a John Cena, that's one thing I'm upset about with Sina retiring. These kids aren't going to be able to be in the ring with him and understand what it's like to be in the ring with him. and see why he is, who he is, and understand it. So it's like, I feel like it's my job.

It's Randy's job. It's Kofi's job who have actually been in the ring with John Cena to actually teach these kids how to be on that level and what you have to do. So that's two. And three, man, I'm just grateful every day to wake up with a smile on my face. It's tough a lot of times because you have all these things going on in your life and you try to like literally, but I always try to make time to literally just go where you're at, man. Do you want to be here? Do you like being here?

And if you are, smile. So I'm smiling because I want to be here. That's beautiful. There you go. Dude, thank you. Thanks, buddy. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it.

the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley.

Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.