Insight with Chris Van Vliet - The Undertaker On Retiring In The Thunderdome, Vince McMahon, Is Kayfabe Dead, Roman Reigns

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

The Undertaker (@undertaker) is a legendary professional wrestler and a member of the WWE Hall Of Fame. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about his 1 deadMAN SHOW at The Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas on March 24. He also talks about lifting the curtain on his character after an incredible 30-year WWE career, Brock Lesnar breaking The Streak at WrestleMania 30 and the decision to lose to Roman Reigns at WrestleMania 33, other wrestlers trying to get him to break character, the biggest lesson he learned from his friendship with Vince McMahon, whether or not he believes that kayfabe is dead, three things he is grateful for and more! Find out more about Undertaker's 1 deadMAN SHOW: https://corporate.wwe.com/news/company-news/2023/02-10-2023 For more information about CVV and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris. The. Oh, baby. How are you, my friends? Welcome back to another audio adventure on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet, and wow. Yeah, you could check this off the bucket list.

For years, I've been wanting to do an interview with The Undertaker, and here we are. Episode number 4.52, and it is happening. If you've seen any of his out-of-character interviews that he's done, or if you watched his Hall of Fame speech from last year, you know that he's such a nice, warm, humble individual funny, too. And he has a couple of his one dead man shows coming up where you can see all this and experience all of this in person. March 24th at the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas.

March 31st during WrestleMania Week in Los Angeles. And if you happen to be in L.A. for WrestleMania, you can see me at RussellCon. I'll be there for a few days. And I'll also be at WrestleMania. So it'd be so awesome to see you, say hi, snap a photo, chat, whatever it is you want to do. It would be so cool to be able to see who's on the other side of this microphone that I'm talking into right now. The Undertaker is just such a great storyteller. And that is on display in his one dead man show. But he does it during this interview. Just tell some great story. some of them that he's never told before. So I was honored to be on the other side of that. And I just hope that you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. And I'm hoping that you'll share this with a friend and that you'll also snap a screenshot

and tag us on social media so we can share it out as well. He is at Undertaker, not The Undertaker, he's just at Undertaker. I'm at Chris Van Vleet's and HomeBrionics. I see you. I appreciate this review on Apple Podcast. that says Chris has an amazing ability to create a comfort zone so early on in his interviews

that the good stuff flows early and flows easily. He is a pros pro. I appreciate the very kind words, and I will keep reading one review on Apple Podcasts from Apple Podcasts. On every single episode is my way to say thank you. Of course, this is free of charge. All you have to do is leave a few words on there. And if you happen to be listening on Spotify, if you could click those stars on there, it'd be so helpful as the show continues to grow. We're closing in on episode number 500.

But man, if we've got The Undertaker for episode number 452, I don't know how we're going to top that for episode 500. So if you have any ideas, man, shoot me a message at Chris Van Fleet. Okay, let's get into this. Ladies and gentlemen, The Undertaker. There he is. The man himself. Such a pleasure to be saying. sitting down with you. Thanks, Chris. How you doing, buddy? I'm doing great.

You know, we've gotten to know you so well since your retirement, especially with the one-man, the one-dead-man show. I'm curious, as we're getting to know you more, are you also getting to know yourself more? I'm becoming more comfortable sharing myself. I can say that. No, I'm in touch with who I am and all that, but it is been a very comfortable sharing myself. But it has been a, it has been a challenge to lower the curtain and lower the veil and let people see behind the hat and coat.

I still find myself at times. I'll get immersed into a story and I'll be halfway through the story and then I go, how much do this? I want to, how much? Because I still, I fight, I fight it. You know, I'm an old school guy and I don't think that'll ever change regardless of, you know, how we progress. and how we evolve. I just, there's certain things that I,

that I struggle with. And that old school mentality of protect this and protect that, well, I think will always be with me. But it's all, you know, I'm coming to grips with all of it. When you talk about being an old school guy,

you know, letting us kind of peek behind the curtain a little bit, do you feel like, is KFabe dead? I think, uh, yeah, I think,

I think, I think KFave died for sure when I came out and, and started talking. as Mark Callaway. I shouldn't say that. No, you know what? Because there are a few guys that are out there that are, they're living their gimmick and doing a really, really good job at that.

And I think obviously we go out of our way now to let everybody know what sports entertainment is. But I think, and we did that even while I was working. working, right? Right. But the way I approach things, and even with my, my character and my over-the-top gimmick, you know, as the undertaker, especially the last probably 10, 15 years of my career, I really, the way I set my matches up and I tried to, I always tried to suspend that sense of reality. I didn't want people thinking, like, I wanted people, when I threw a punch,

I want to people go, ooh, that's different. Or the things that I did to make sense, even like before I do old school, which is a stretch for somebody to grab someone's arm and to be able to walk up. So I would take the time to work that arm over and to hit that shoulder with the shoulder tackles and the shoulder tackles and this and that. I tried to have things make sense. And I always tried to get people invested and forget everything else. that we've told them about what sports entertainment and wrestling is

and try and let them immerse themselves into what's going on. And that's the way I approach things. And I think there's some of that that's still applicable if you make the effort to do so. I think in large there's just this, okay, everybody, everybody's in on it. And, you know, this is the way it is. But I think there is room for cave still. I know I just I know everything's evolving and people have different perspectives on it but that's mine.

And I am and I'll be the first to admit I'm I'm a dinosaur. You look great though. Come on. Well, hey, I'm a dinosaur but I'm a T-Rex. So, you know, take that for what it's worth. Your relationship with Vince McMahon's well documented what you guys both mean to each other. really curious, what's the biggest lesson that you've taken away from your friendship with Vince? There's several. You know, and I mentioned it last year in my speech at the Hall of Fame.

Perception is reality. And, you know, I think sometimes he may have forgotten that, but I never did. And so that went a long way. Perception is reality and how I dealt with people. through my career. I didn't want anybody to ever think that I, you know, that I swerved them or that I had to go behind their back or do anything. What they saw is what they got. And I think that was probably a large factor in people always considering me the locker room leader.

Everybody knew my relationship with Vince and Bruce and all of those Paterson. Everybody knew my relationship there. but those same guys that I was on the road with that I was hanging out with and partying with, you know, they knew what happened there was safe and there was never going to be any crossover. Don't let what we're doing at night getting away of business. I mean, that was a really strong rule with me. I don't care what we do. Don't be late and work hard.

that was that was that was the only thing that i don't get in trouble don't make it don't don't embarrass us don't be laid to work and work hard and you know i think that was why i garnered i guess the respect because people trust me and they knew that the two never the the two never cross i was going to do what was best for business and that's something that i learned i learned from vince because vince regardless of what anybody thinks it deep in his heart, he's one of the boys. He really is.

And he has that mentality. Things had to change, obviously, whatever. Things change when the business, when the company, when, you know, public,

there were a lot of changes that had to happen. Changes for the better. Everything's, you know, we've evolved into a whole, I mean, it is a,

I think, I think WWE is, is in a lot of a lot more now is regarded in the same way as as other major sports franchise, you know, NBA or the NFL, we're on that, or if we're not on that level, we're really close. And and the company is run that way. It is a, it's not that circus, you know, carney kind of thing anymore. It is a big, huge business, as everybody knows, and that's the way it's treated. the product is evolved and it's evolved for the better.

I know everyone wants to talk to you about the streak. And I was there, WrestleMania 30 when it ended, but I want to ask about WrestleMania. I don't remember. We don't need to talk about that. I want to ask you about WrestleMania 33. And what went into the plans of the loss to Roman rains?

Because I don't feel like that is given nearly as much attention. Yeah. So I was extremely beat up. And, you know, I had toyed with the idea of hanging it up. I knew it that year when I got to the Rumble, I wasn't going to be ready. I wasn't going to be ready for mania, but I'd already committed to the program. Didn't know what we were going to do yet. I just knew that I was going to work with Roman.

And we got there that. day and I was like, man, I knew I was in bad shape and my hip, my right hip, which I had surgery right after that to have a Birmingham hip resurface done after that. You know, it was just the, it was the right thing to do, not knowing if I was going to be able to come back again and work anymore. So there, I was, he was, he was, He was on the, you know, he was coming up and he was going to be the face of the company. And it was the right thing to do. And I didn't, you know, I'd already, the streak had already been beat.

So it was the right thing to do business-wise. Because I didn't, like I said, I didn't know that I was going to come back again. I mean, all that hat, the hat and the coat, all that being placed in the ring was 100% legitimate. at the end of it, I was done. And that was my way of saying goodbye. And yeah, it wasn't a plan or staged thing. And then I get my hip fixed. I get a call and I want me to work with Sina.

Oh, crap, man. So I trained. I know I'm giving you more than you asked for. But so this is great. It was like, okay, this is my chance. Because I was so just, if you watched the last ride, you know how disappointed I was in my performance and that I put myself in that situation

because I just couldn't physically get to where I needed to be for Roman and how important that was. And I just, as hard as I tried, I mean, I trained like an animal, but I mean, my hip just, it just, it held me back and I'm not making excuses, but that's the extent of it. So now I've got a new hip and I'm like, oh man, and it's Sina. And I was like, oh, crap. So Vince called me.

He said, what do you think? And I was like, I don't know. I haven't really, I've rehabbed my hip and I'm working out again, but I had no plans of getting back in the ring. So I said, give me a few weeks. So I get a ring shipped down here to Texas and I rent a place and I put the ring in this building and I start training and lo and behold, I could move again. So probably the hardest that I'd ever trained, not to ever I trained, but the hardest

I'd been able to train in probably 10 years. And I was ready. Man, I was, my cardio, I trained for like a 45 minute just. That match was so short though. Yeah. And I didn't know it was going to be short until I got there that day. So I've trained for a 45-minute war, right? And I'm like, all right, here is redemption.

I'm going to, man, I am going to light this place on fire. I felt good. And Vince calls me into his office and he goes, okay, he said, it's going to be about five minutes. You're going to squash him. I'm like, what? What? And, you know, Vince, he just thought that was the funny.

He goes, he knew how hard at the training. I mean, he, and I'm like, no, no, no. no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I said, I'm going. I said, I'm doing 30 or I'm not going out. And he's like, Mark, that's not what we need. And I'm like, no, Vith. I was like, where's John?

Where's he at? So John comes in. He goes, oh, no. He goes, I talk mad smack about you, dude. Yeah, you need to beat me in quick and get this over with. I'm like, are you kidding me? I was like, we've never worked on pay-per-view. Are you?

And this is Rosal Manny. give me a break here and they both they ganged up on i was finally i threw my hands up i was like i can't believe and vince just thought that was the funniest thing because like i said i i trained like i was so unbearable at home i mean as far as my diet and the and training and just my all the my protocols of you know recoup you know rehab i was a nightmare and i get there and Yeah, five minutes. And it was like, that was it. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast.

My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really take their claimant, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it. Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures,

but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer podcast. Presented by Hencoe, follow and listen on your favorite platform. When you did finally say goodbye to WWE and you hung it up and you had the farewell and Survivor Series 2020, is there a part of you that wished you were doing that in front of a sold out arena? It's funny. Yeah, I can see where you're coming with that.

But I didn't, even though I knew I was done. And it was over. Like, I didn't want to, I didn't want to cry. I didn't want to break down. You know, I was like, I was still trying to protect that character. And I was like, man, if I, if I'm out here in front of a live audience, like, I mean, you saw how hard the time I had at, at, at the Hall of Fame. Yeah.

And I, you know, that's another year, you know, two later. I would have been a wreck, man. Because, you know, because I, I didn't want to retire. In my mind, in my heart. There's nothing more that I want to do than get in the ring and perform. You know, it was my body that just said, no, you're done, dude. We got everything out of this we can get. And it's time for you to move aside and let these guys come up.

So I would have been a wreck if there had been people there. And, you know, all that, all that cave-faving I did and protecting the character would have been destroyed in one promo. I would have been bawling. Triple H tells this great story about how everyone's trying to always get the Undertaker to break and that the genesis of the people's elbow was the rock creating this ridiculous move to try to get you to break. Do you remember that? I do.

You know what? I always thought that was the hokeyest thing ever, but iconic, right? Sure. And always to get me laugh. I mean, there was such a time period there. where I think that was the company's goal was to see who could get me to break. I mean, it was nonstop. We spent an hour and a half one night after a TV event in Seattle, them trying to get me to do to Spinnerooney.

Booker T. swerve me. We've been doing this same match after TV tapings. That was our advertised dark match. We've been doing it for weeks. And, you know, every night I'd get on there and say, hey, let's, let's. that Booker do a spinneroony. Everybody go crazy. Well, Booker gets the microphone one night and completely swerve me, which was all set up. Vince was in on, everybody was in on it. You know, and he tells this sold-out crowd in Seattle that he wants to see a takeruny.

And I was like, you son of a pit, oh, I was pissed. And here they come. One after another. Just, I mean, everybody on the roster, everybody, rock comes down, Triple H comes down, big shows to everybody's down and doing these absolutely awful spinneroonies. And I remember I remember seeing my spot to leave because the ring is full of people now, right? And the crowd is going nuts trying to get me, everybody's chanting, take a Rooney and all this. So good. And I finally saw my spot and I jumped out of the ring and I headed back to the back. And I looked over my shoulder and here comes Big Show.

Vince had sent Big Show to come get me, right? And he come through that curtain. I said, you may kill me and eat me, but I am going to punch you in the face if you touch me. Vince never forgive me. Because I always told him, I said, I don't care who you are, what you do. You'll never get me to do that. And you don't tell Vince that you can't or won't do something because it becomes his passion in life. But I can honestly say he never got me to do a takerunee.

So that's the one battle I won with Vince. As we wrap this up, you're one of the great. greatest of all time, but you're also so humble. Well, for a second, don't be humble. And I want to ask you, what do you think it was that made you have the success that you had in WWA? I think it was the one thing that kind of really put the fire under me was being told by WCW that I would never draw money. I mean, to this day, that motivates me. You know, being told to my face that, hey, you're a great athlete, you're never going to make money. And, uh, you know, so that and then just the passion that I had for this.

And then I, and then I knew right really early on that what I was doing with the character. Um, I mean, that was such a gift, that character. I mean, it, it hit me, I mean, it just hit me right between the eyes. I mean, I knew when I got it, I was like, wow, this is special. This is really special. And then it just became part of me and I lived it. And I think the dedication to always being that guy everywhere I went, every time somebody saw me, it was that guy.

And, you know, there was probably to, you know, probably to a fault, you know, my personal, everything kind of took a back seat to being the undertaker, which is probably not fair to my older kids and I've made I've made amends with them but you know I've heard different guys I've heard Austin talk about this you can't be or we couldn't figure it out a lot of guys do it now but back then we just we grounded everything and everything that we were as human beings were poured into our characters and I just it was probably the most important you know outside of my kids it was the most important thing in my life was to be Undertaker and to and for that to be genuine and for people just to like

even if they didn't understand or they didn't know or it's like man there's something different about that guy it wasn't a character for a long time it was just i think that guy's really like that whether i was like whether i was a zombie or whether i was dead they i mean obviously they they they knew that I was a live human being, but they genuinely believed, I think, that I thought I was the undertaker. And I think that came off, you know, I think that's the way that I was perceived. Like, this dude is just different and different from what everybody else was doing. So, I don't know. I think it was just like the dedication to the craft and the character that, and nothing else came before that. That's such a great answer. And you're so good at telling stories. And we're all looking

forward to seeing you Friday, March 24th, the One Dead Men Show at the Cosmopolitan in Vegas. And I have just one final question for you, because I'm all about gratitude. It's such an important part of my life. And I wake up every day. I say out loud, three things I'm grateful for, and I do it before I go to bed too. So what are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? I'm grateful for, I'm very grateful for my wife and my kids. And I'm grateful for the people that I realize that I don't get to where I'm at or do I have the career that I had. One, without the people who paid their hard-earned money to come and see me perform. And two, the people that I performed with.

because you don't you don't get to the heights that you're that that that i got to there you go that's that's me not being humble you don't get to that level without a lot of people staring at the lights for you yeah and and and and and putting their their gimmicks and everything else aside to make mine you know what it was and that that's something that you know i i i probably We don't say it enough because I didn't do this by myself. And you can't. No one does. There has to be a lot of people involved to help get guys over and to stay over.

So, yeah, my family, my fans, and my coworkers. I love it. Three great things. Super grateful to be able to share a conversation with you. So Undertaker, you are a legend and honor to speak with you. Man, anytime, Chris, I'd love to do this again, man. Thank you. We'll do it in person next time. Let's do it. You got my word.

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Oh, man, did you hear that at the end? I have the Undertaker's word that we're going to do another one of these in person next time. I have no idea when or where this is going to happen, but sign me up for that. Hope that you enjoyed this conversation. Just please share this with somebody who you know is going to love this. Man, what a kind man.

The Undertaker, Mark, whatever you want to call him. What a kind man that he is. Check out The Undertaker's One Dead Man Show, March 24th at the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas, March 31st in Los Angeles, and I'm looking forward to seeing you in Los Angeles during WrestleMania Week.

I'll see you at Russell Con. I'll see you at a few other events. I'm not exactly sure which indie shows I'll be at, but looking forward to seeing you there. And I'll leave you with a quote from Warren Buffett, which I feel is really appropriate. for the Undertaker and his career and the legacy that he left. Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago.

How good is that? Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava, on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about.

You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Ticket banjov, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.