Insight with Chris Van Vliet - TJ Wilson on his behind the scenes WWE job, Owen Hart's death from his perspective, his wife Nattie Neidhart

Episode Date: February 2, 2021

TJ Wilson (aka Tyson Kidd) chats with Chris Van Vliet from his home in Florida. He talks about his job working as a producer for WWE, the career ending neck injury he suffered, what it was like growing up with the legendary Hart family, being stretched in The Dungeon by Stu Hart, training with Bret Hart, how he met his wife Nattie Neidhart, his memories of watching Over The Edge in 1999 when Owen Hart died, his thoughts on the Montreal Screwjob, what his current workout routine looks like, how he keeps his positive attitude and more!  Support the show by supporting our sponsors! Get your energy back, sleep better, and block out the unhealthy effects of blue light with BLUblox. Get free shipping worldwide and 15% off by going to https://blublox.com/CVV or enter code CVV15 at checkout.  If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to https://chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, y'all? It's Drewski, and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce a hilarious new basketball podcast called The Do Zone with Drewski. Learn the backstories of your favorite ballers and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a favorite team? Was it the Raptors at the time or no? Was the Raptors even started around that time? Come on, bro. I ain't that old, fam.

You're talking like I was 50. Taylor, Rokes, Asian Wilson, and many more. You won't want to miss this. Listen to the Doozone with Drusky on Apple Podcast, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome to Insight. If you're new here, I'm Chris Fan. I am Fleet. I'm a four-time Emmy Award-winning TV host, and I'm obsessed with finding out what makes successful people so successful. And on each episode of the show, we have in-depth conversations

and reverse engineer the habits and techniques of the world's top athletes, actors, entrepreneurs, you name it. If they are the best at what they do, I want to get their insight so we can apply it to our own lives. And get ready to be inspired by T.J. Wilson. a.k.a. Tyson Kid. He had an incredible in-ring career with WWE, which, you know, I guess happens when you spend most of your life around the legendary heart family. But that in-ring career was unfortunately cut short from a devastating neck injury in 2015. He's actually lucky to be alive. Most people don't survive this neck injury, and the people that do survive are paralyzed. So, I mean, what a lucky, lucky guy. He's now transitioned.

into a backstage role as a producer. And he says he's even better at that than he was in the ring, which is a huge statement. And you know I'm all about positivity. And positivity just beams out of TJ. I mean, he could have every reason to be a negative, angry guy. He could still be constantly living in the past of that injury that happened all, you know, six years ago.

Instead, though, he focuses on what he has right now and what's in front of him. which I think is a reminder that we all need in our daily lives. He also tells a great story of how going to school with a young Teddy heart is the reason that he's a wrestler today. And if he didn't meet Teddy, who knows what he'd be doing? That's the butterfly effect right there. Take a screenshot, share this with someone who needs to be inspired today.

Tag me so I can share it. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. T.J. is at T.J. Wilson on Twitter. He's at T.J. Wilson 711 on Instagram. and do me a favor. Check right now to make sure that you're subscribed on whatever platform it is that you're listening on. If that happens to be Apple Podcasts, can I ask you to take a minute out of your day to leave a review? That's all I ask. I don't ask for you to pay me for shoutouts. I don't even really push my merchandise, but you're welcome to buy it on Chrisfanfleet.com.

But a review would be super helpful. It takes you like one minute to do this. And I'm going to keep reading one out on every single episode till we get to that goal of 2000 reviews before my birthday, May 19th. And then after that, that's it. That is it. No more reading of reviews. I may say that now, but who knows, things might change, but that's the plan right now. So if you want to get your review right on here, we've got a few more months to leave it. And then these intros are going to get shorter, I guess. This one comes from Mikey Cummings in my home in native land, Canada. He writes, Best in the Biz. Been watching and listening to Chris's stuff for a couple of years now. Dude always crushes it in these

interviews with a ton of research and professionalism. You can tell he's genuinely friendly and a likable guy. Check him out. Well, thank you, Mikey. I appreciate the kind words. I can tell that you are a genuinely friendly and likable guy. And wow, between you, me, and T.J. Wilson here, we've got a whole lot of Canada going on in this episode. And let's get right to it. He's an inspiration to me. And I know, he's going to be an inspiration to you as well. And best of all, he listens to the show. So, TJ, thank you so much. I know you're listening to this right now. Please welcome the incredible. T.J. Wilson. Man, what a gym you have there. That's incredible. Yeah, I've, you know, the pandemic kind of forced this out of me. I thought about how much I didn't want a home gym for so long.

And I thought that it would kind of kill like that gym vibe and kind of, I would almost get a little complacent, I thought. And it's been the opposite. It's, I saw one of the, I ran into Christian and he was talking about his home gym. We were talking the other day. And he just said, like, same thing. Like, he wasn't sure. And he just said, like, we were talking, we were sharing stories.

You just have to become creative a little bit and kind of figure out, like, what you need. I just said, and I'm always always over. like a new attachment, like, hey, I, oh, yeah, I missed this from the gym and I'll order a new attachment. And so it's a work in progress, but it's coming along. Do you think that when the pandemic's over, you want to go back to a gym? Are you like, no, I'm a home gym guy now? Yeah, I'm a home gym guy now. You know, obviously, except for when I'd be on the road.

But otherwise, if I'm in, if I'm at home, I'm working out at home. Did we plan to have a cat in the background? I love this. No, so he's like, he's funny. So if I'm in here, he'll just be scratching at the door. He's the only one I have five, but he loves coming in here. Who is that? Louis, Big Louie.

Hey, Big Louie. There you comes. I'm going to say, yeah, dude, he does not be in this gym, this guy. Oh, my God. He's my biggest one. He's probably like 12 pounds, 13 pounds. Hey, buddy. I was wondering if we would see a cat and then how long it would take to see a cat.

22 seconds. Nobody loves cats more than Tyson Kid. No, man, the heart family, we love these cats, dude. You do. Who loves cats more? Are you or Natty? I think me. She loves, like, obviously she loves them all.

She loves two paws, but, like, I'm pretty impartial to, like, all five of them. Right. So other than the gym setup you've got here, what else has changed for you over the last, I guess is 10 months now? It's crazy. I just was calculating, like, how long it's been. Man, I don't. I haven't seen the inside of an airport in a very long time. Let me move this back.

I might make the lighting a little bit better. Sure, man. Whatever works for you. Sorry. I guess you're just, you're driving to work now. Yeah. So I drive to work,

man. I drive, you know, during this entire thing, which is, you know, been a, it's been a learning process,

I guess, and almost like trial and error in some ways, but like originally, you know, we're at the performance center. And so I'm just down 90 minutes from there. And then,

then we moved to Amway, which I'm 90 minutes from there, two. And now it's at Tropicana Field in St. Pete, which is like less than an hour for me. So it's wild. Like when I leave at night and I know like I'm home and under an hour, it's unbelievable

because that is not the norm. I mean, I'm getting used to it because that's been the last 10 months, but I know in the big picture this is not the norm of what we do. Yeah, what city is it that you guys actually live in? I live in Wesley Chapel. So just north of Tampa.

Okay. All the wrestlers live in either Tampa or Orlando, I feel like. Yeah, Landol, yeah, and there's like, and there's other ones, Landolates, lutes, like, we're all, like, scattered in this little, not all, but the Florida people are in this little, little radius. You probably had the frequent flyer miles for, like, your entire life. You had all the, you know, all the status on every airline.

You haven't even been on a plane in a year. It's insane. So I'll see some of the, I'll talk to some of the talent and some of the people who are flying in, like some, like some people, like Pat Buck, he lives in New York, so he flies in and has a producer, he flies him from New York. So, like, for him, it has changed because obviously now he's just flying to one destination, like, always Orlando or now Tampa. But he's always at the airport. So I'm like, is it weird flying? And I don't know if they even know what I'm asking because, like, it is weird, but it's also so weird, I don't know, to me not being at an airport

for this long. And I don't know. I don't know if I'm, if I am complaining about it or if I really miss it. I'm not, I'm not sure which one it is. Well, once it gets back to normal, I'll be complaining about the airports. But in this moment, I really, there's a part of me that misses the airports. Yeah, there's like, there's a certain like hustle about it because a lot of my job was going to the airport and flying a ton. I've flown six times now, I think. Actually, I was in Calgary two weeks ago. You were? Yeah, I was in, I was in Calgary for Christmas. this is the longest I haven't been home. I haven't been home since a live event in September 2019.

Wow. Well, I got to tell you. I was planning to go up for the stampede, but then, of course, there was no stampede. No stampede. Well, I got to tell you, when I landed at Y, Y, Y, C, there was like six people there. Wow. Now you have to take a COVID test. As soon as you land, you have to quarantine until you get your results, but they do it rapid test. So when you get the results, you can come out of quarantine. But yeah, there was like six people there. Wow, man. Yeah, I miss Calgary. Like I said, it's been, this is the longest in my whole life. I haven't been to Calgary. Yeah, it's wild.

You're looking very, very ripped, very jacked, by the way. Trying to, trying to. I was trying to find my white Workhorse shirt. I couldn't find it. Oh, well, we can just promote workforce. He's looking for his own shirt and he's mad. He's got Julie's shirt on. Try I's looking everywhere before this interview to find it.

I'm trying, man, just training as hard as I can. And there was a period at the beginning of the quarantine. I was, you know, just eating a ton of cereal. at night and then I like kicked out of that and um I trained hard throughout the whole thing but now I up the training a little bit and dropped uh dropped the empty calories a little bit right you do not look like a 40 year old I can't believe you're 40 yeah man that was what I was kind of looking forward to uh going to the stampede this year and my 40th birthday but uh yeah man i was uh natty called me out on it a little bit before but I was saying I think the whole time

I was 39 that I couldn't wait to be 40. I just thought it'd be kind of, don't ask me what I think, but I thought it'd be kind of cool to be 40 years old. And I knew how I looked at 39, and I was like, well, I don't think I'm going to age insanely, like, accelerated in a one year. So I should look pretty much the same. So I'm looking forward to being 40. Man, I don't know if anybody in wrestling smiles more than you, do I love it.

Yeah, I do smile a lot. I get told that lot. And my laugh is very loud. carries and it's very unique. You know what? I caught myself laughing and it's sometimes like Ray Leota and Goodfellas

when they're at the bar scene right before I think Spider gets his feet shot. Yeah, it's just infectious. Like you've got this laugh, this smile, it's like so infectious. Who would not want to be around you? I mean, I'm sure there's people. There are some.

I guess. I don't know. The cats seem to want to be around you all the time. The cats definitely do. I at all time. Did you ever think at any point during this quarantine that you might bring back that old haircut? I wonder what that haircut does in a producer role, I wonder. I think you could do that. I mean, I'm sure I could.

I've never thought about bringing it back. I kind of needed it. I've explained the story a couple times, but I needed it as something to kind of stick out. I knew I wasn't a big guy. I knew I wasn't in in WW world with the land of the giants. And I knew that

I knew I had a bit of charisma, a decent amount. Like I knew I knew I had a little bit, and I knew that I needed a lot of work with promo, so I needed a little something, at least on my tryout. I knew I could wrestle in the ring, and that was Carl DeMarco is the one who helped me get a tryout. And he told me, he was like almost calling me up a couple weeks prior, like almost like maybe

once a week or once every two weeks almost like kind of I guess almost like a coach or trying to pump me up like a motivator and he was just like hey listen you got to go there like you're going to be smaller than some of those guys but that's fine he's like just go in as best shape as you can i remember he kept saying this be as be really tanned and i was like okay okay and uh and he said man you just got to you just got to wrestle you for your whole try out you got out wrestle everybody and i was like i mean i'll do my best and um so that was his advice to me and so that was his advice to me and So I knew, like, obviously a lot of it was going to be on my wrestling in terms of, you know, getting the thumbs up or thumbs down. But I just, I had that hair.

I knew I kind of needed, and I had a prior to WW. I had it when I was wrestling in Japan, too. But I knew I needed a little something that where you go, like, if nothing else, like, and this is maybe not even the perfect mindset. But if nothing else, it's like, oh, the guy with the hair, at least. It gives you at least something. Yeah. In this producer role, are you wearing suits to Tropicana? every day now, every week?

Yeah, I have my, my own style. I have the suit minus the, so I'll wear the, I have a lot of nice suits. I just wear the pants and I'll wear like a fitted, like tight t-shirt. Okay. And then, but well, right now it's obviously a little bit cooler because we're, it's January, but still, we're in Florida. I don't really want to wear the jacket. It's too hot, man.

Yeah, cool in Florida is like a temper. But you're that begins with a seven. But like yesterday when I left the Thunderdome, it was real cold in there. And I, and it's so funny, like, I'll go back in a few days and it'll probably be really hot. It's, it's never been the same twice so far, the tropical one. And when I came outside yesterday, I was like bracing for the cold. And because it was real cold in there. And I figured, oh, it's probably even colder outside.

Because, I mean, obviously, like you said, it doesn't get super cold. But I think last week or league for was like 50 something. thing. I came outside and it was, it was warmer outside than in the Thunderdome. And I was like, oh, never mind. I live in Florida. It's all good. That is the most bizarre thing. I live in Florida for five years. There's the most bizarre thing to like leave a restaurant at night and then you walk outside. And it's hotter outside at night than it is where you just came from. And that it's all the time. That's all the time in Florida, as you know. It's so wild. So look, we know what Natalia's parents did for a living. I'm really curious to know, what did your parents do for a living?

So I grew up a single parent home with my mom and my two sisters. My mom, she had a bunch of different jobs growing up. Like she was usually like a secretary, but a secretary at like different places. And now she handles like phones for Calgary Transit. She works for the city. And she, uh, she worked. works with, I guess, maybe special assistance, arranging rides for people that need special assistance. And so that's what she does. And she's been there from now with that city for over a

decade for sure. She's been there for a while. Yeah. What's your first memory of watching wrestling? Man, my first. So I, maybe a year ago, I YouTube this because I just was like, let me see if this match happened to see if my memory is even some. somewhat even close. And the match happened. It probably is not what I saw, but my cousin showed me wrestling for the first time. I have an older cousin of mine.

And for whatever reason, the two teams that stuck out, of course, so it's very funny. It was two tag teams. Now, that just hit me right now sitting here. It's funny that it's two tag teams,

and I had my success in tag teams. Yeah. The killer bees in demolition. And then I looked it up and they had a match. that I had a couple matches. Don't know if this happened to be when I saw, or if they both were on the show or I saw graphics of one. I remember leaving,

knowing of these guys, the killer bees and demolition. I thought demolition looks so cool. And I came home and I practiced some moves I saw on TV on my two younger sisters and wrestling was quickly banned in my house. How old were you at this point? It was about eight or nine. And then when did you decide in your life?

You know what? Wrestling is something I think I want to do for a living. So then I became friends with Teddy in Teddy Hart in elementary school. And he kept a- You guys went to the same school? Yeah. And it's so funny. I sit and I think about this a lot.

If we didn't go to the same school, like I don't know where my life would have ended up. I wouldn't be a wrestler. I know that because like once wrestling got banned in my house, so it wasn't like I had this crate. It hadn't been big enough to, like, fight it being banned. When it got banned, I was like, okay, well, I still got Ninja Turtles and all this other stuff. So wrestling was a show I saw one time at that point. It just happened to make me try a couple moves on it.

It didn't make me. I made me. But I tried a couple moves on my sisters and they went away really quickly. So, man, if I didn't go to school with Teddy, who knows. But he was very insistent on me coming to his house. and can tell me he lived in a gym. And when you're a kid, a gym, you think of a gymnasium like at my school where we play floor hockey. Nope, his dad owns a legit gym.

So I come walking into this massive gym. And he lived on like this quarters of that like above. And I just remember like seeing all these big humans walking around. And it was like a real hardcore gym. And I just remember being like, what is this? And he introduced me to this woman who was riding the bike. and he said, oh, this is George. She said, hi, nice to meet you.

Well, that's his mom. Turns out that's his mom. I remember thinking, why does he introduce me to gym members? That's his mom. He calls her, to this day, he calls her George. Her name's Georgia. Wow. So anyway, now I'm friends with them,

friends with Ted, and just wrestling took over. And when I saw Somerset, when I saw Somerset in 92, Brett versus Davey, I was like, that was the moment where I was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. I don't know how, how do I do it? But seeing that and seeing that a match could look like that, I was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do.

Did you know that, like, did that match Brett versus Davy means so much to you because of their relation to Teddy? Yeah, oh, for sure. That definitely, like, added to it. And at that point, I'd been, like, I became friends with Ted in 1990. But, like, if anyone who, if you know Ted, things are very intense at all times in terms of, like, if Ted and I were friends, that means that we're friends and we're together. like all day, every day.

And if not, like, if we're, if we're not, then he would, like, call me from home. And it's just like, like, I was around him all the time. And I was around. So then I, you know, then next thing, you know, I'm getting invited up to Sunday dinners at Stu. So now I'm meeting the family. I'm introduced to, like, everybody. It's like something out of like Godfather or something. It's like, okay, I'm in.

And that's where you eventually met Natty, right, through all of that. Yes, 100%. Yeah, I met her at Steve. house. Man. People talk about high school sweethearts. You guys have known each other since you were how old and she was how old? I probably met her. I probably met her around 92, maybe 93, because she lived in Florida at the time. So I didn't meet her for a couple years later. But yeah, so I'm like 12 or 13. And she was how old? She would have been like, so I was probably, I was probably 13 or 14 maybe. Maybe they came up in like 94. She would have been like 12. Man. And then how long after that did you guys start

officially dating? I was, I was 20, 21. So you guys knew each other for a long time. It was still a while. Wow. It's so amazing. I've put in a lot of time and a lot of work, believe me. I'm sure she would say the same about you.

I put in a lot of time. She's told the story many times. She did not like me at first because Teddy's Teddy. So anyone who's kind of friends of Teddy is kind of also maybe when we're kids is also, well, if he's friends of Ted, maybe he's kind of mischievous Ted too. Maybe he's kind of bad too. So I was painted with that brush for a little while,

but I didn't, you know, it was worth it. So, I mean, you're officially now part of the Hart family. You've married into the Hart family. But it sounds like for a long time, you were just kind of like the adopted member of that family. Oh, yeah. Like, man, I live with, I lived with Davey and

Diana and Harry before for a little period of time. I lived at Stu's for a while. I spent a lot of time with Brett in terms of like I remember there was a period of time like after school every day. Teddy and I about 16 years old

would go train at Brett's house. Sometimes with Brett, sometimes he'd watch us. Sometimes he wouldn't even be home, but we were allowed to come to his house and train. We were, he saw, he saw us wrestle a match. So he saw us wrestling at Stu's once. And he like, and then he thought like he, he's told me a story where he's like, wow, these guys actually, these guys are kind of, even though he knew we were kids,

he's like, okay, I've seen them. He's pulled up a few times and seen us in the rain. Like every time he pulls up, he's like, man, these guys are maybe a little bit serious about this. And we're only 16 years, 15 years old. And then, then he, so he's not. He's not like technically back yet, but there was a live event in Calgary that we wrestled on in 1996. Brett maybe comes back on Raw, like maybe a week or two, three weeks later is when he does the promo where he says he's back.

He's going to wrestle Steve Austin at Starvest Series. But he came by that show. And then after that, he said, wow, he said, it's so cool to watch you guys. I didn't realize you guys take it this seriously. And we didn't know anything about like wrestling rules. We were just for kids. And that's when he kind of offered this. the invitation to kind of come up and train with him.

Wow. So if you're living with Stu Hart, are the stories about the dungeon true? Like, is it every day? He takes people down there and stretches them? So not every day when I'm around because obviously he's older at that time, but I've been stretched by Stu a few times.

But sometimes, though, here's the thing. Sometimes you didn't need to make that trek down to the dungeon. Sometimes you could get that stretching right there in the kitchen. Oh, my God. The dungeon wasn't just exclusive. It could happen anywhere. Man. We once filmed the show for YTV.

I remember YTV. I think, did we talk about this last time, Alpha 2 Omega? No. Oh, so I did a, I did a, I've seen it back. Like, I've seen like a little portion of it one time. I've never really seen it. The show Alpha 2 Omega, Harry and I did some wrestling match on there. And at one point, Stu's stretching people.

like stretch maybe the camera guy but he'd already stretched me and then he called Harry over and Harry's really young at this time Harry's like 12 or 13 and he called Harry over and Harry like we're outside by the ring

and Harry ducked down under the ring so now Steve just sees me and then he calls me over I remember like kicking Harry and I was like you asshole and I was like I knew like and I went and I was wearing this little like thin tank top because we were about

to do this match. And now Stu's stretching me on the, on the concrete. My back's all scraped up. And, you know, he's just demoing holds. And the guys, the camera guys were recording it. And I was just like,

every single thing hurts. And it hurts times 10 because this gravel really hurts too. Thanks, Harry. And Harry's hiding under the ring on the grass. Is there ever a time when you guys would get to stretch Stu? Oh, no way. No way. Definitely not.

That never happened. No, the roles never got reversed. Man, that's funny. You know, being that close to the Hart family, being in the Hart family, can you take me back to where you were when Owen passed away at Over the Edge? Yeah, I was, we were watching the pay-per-view up at Davy and Diana's house,

which is literally up the hill from Stu's, like, less than like a three-minute drive to Stu's. And so we were up there watching it, watching the pay-per-view. And there was a bunch of us. So, like, you know, if a bunch of people get together and watch a paper view, you don't just sit and you're not just hanging on the, you're not just hanging on to every word. You're all talking and you're watching the show,

but you're all talking. So, like, you know, you see Owen's promo, and then we're all, like, talking, like, laughing. Like, you know, the promo about drink your milk, blah, blah, blah, blah. The Blue Blazer one. and then we're like you know we're just talking we don't realize I guess we didn't instantly realize like the like like Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler's like expression and and like I guess what they were saying we we were you know laughing about Owen's promo and

and then when they like when the camera's on Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler it took a second to register like oh maybe that matches later maybe they're talking about this next match. So it took a minute to kind of realize what was going on. And then all of a sudden it was like, then it was like, oh, you know, Jim Ross is explaining that something happened to Owen. And I just remember like then I guess kind of like everybody else, you know, we're not sure is this a part of the, is this an angle?

Is this a part of the show? Is this like what's happening here? And then like, like before, like, I think maybe there's like a phone call. Then all of a sudden, like, then the phones, then all of a sudden more people to start coming in. And then just like, in my mind, man, in my memory, it just like then kind of mayhem kind ensues of like, well, what's going on here? Then it found, then, like, Davey found out that like Owen fell, but we weren't sure the

the result yet. And then I think, I think we all stopped and then just, um, um, head down to stews. Wow. And then what happens from there? Then from there is, from there we get word about, about Owen passing away.

And now, now, like almost everyone's at stews. It's just like, by the minute, more cars are pulling up. And then, and then I can remember,

like, Vince, he does like a press conference. or something that day. Yeah, that night, yeah. And I think he, so he called, he called Stu's either right before or right after that press conference. I don't know which one. And I, I remember, like, the phone being passed around.

Like, I remember Bruce, you know, kind of Bruce Hart ripping into him. And, you know, Vince, I obviously can't hear Vince on the other side, but I just know, like, you know, Vince took it and Stu was talking to him. I think maybe a few others talked to, talk to Vince. on the phone that night. That were at Stu's, I mean. And obviously, they contacted Martha prior to that, I believe. And yeah, man, it was, I remember Stu, I can remember Stu saying, like,

Stu said something. And I don't know if it was, like, the promoter in him, but Stu said something like, he said something to the effect of, like, man, I would, like, to Vince, like, almost like he felt bad for Vince, he said. Like, I feel bad for you. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now. And that's just like, that's just like, that's just like, that's just. just how Stu was.

Like, he just lost his son, but he also understood that, like, um, like it wasn't, it wasn't done out of malice. I think, I don't know. I don't know.

I can't speak for him, but he, he just, um, just the way he handled things, man. Stu, Stu is so stoic with everything.

Like, even, even, um, like when Helen passed, she passed about two years before Stu. And obviously he was sad and he was like, you know,

it shook him, but he, but he was pretty stoic. He's, he's tough, man. He was so tough inside and now, but also so generous and so nice. So, yeah,

man, it was a wild, it was a wild, wild, wow. Man, I can't even imagine. In your opinion,

how much do you think that factored into Brett not wanting to stay in WWF? Oh, man. I mean, I would think big, I would think big time that he,

He definitely, that definitely didn't, that definitely didn't help anything with, with Brett and the company for sure. You, I mean, you mentioned you train with Brad. Have you ever had like a formal match with him? Um,

no. Well, we've done, we've, when he came back in 2010, we did some six-man techs. Right. A team with him,

but I never, I never wrestled against him. But we, we wrestled some tags, though. But imagine, imagine Tyson kid versus Brett Hart. Man,

I wish. I remember one time he, and again, I was like 16 and he was showing me a leg drop. And at the time, you know, I'm a kid. And so every time I move, like every time someone's going to drop an elbow or leg on me, I flinch. She's just a very natural reaction. Sure. And I remember like, I said, all right, just don't move.

And I remember, like, taking everything in me not to move. And I'm like, this is Brett Hart. And like, I got to make sure I don't move, man. And then, like, boom, he drops this leg that, like, is so perfect. and like didn't hit me. And I was like, oh my God, this is a real pro. This is what they did. Yeah.

I think what really won Brett over, so I have a very, very good memory. A lot of, like we talk about a lot in the locker room. Just this, I was joking, it's a gift and a curse,

but I have a crazy memory. But one time when we were training at Brett, he was talking about King of Ring 93. And this really, I think this really won me over with Brett. big time. But he was talking about how he doesn't win any of the three matches with the sharpshooter.

And he said like when he got the finishes, he saw that and was like, okay, I got to come up with. He said he had to come up with a reason psychologically, like, why does he not win with the sharpshooter? And he's like, so I had the mark a body part. He's almost like a weird quiz. He's like, so I had

them, you know, I had them work a body part to remember what it was. I remember Teddy. He's like, oh yeah, your knee. And Brett said no. And then I just remember sitting there and I I was like, can remember this spot of like Brett going for the sharpshooter and like razor grabbing his fingers? I was like, your fingers. And he's like, yeah, how did you know that?

And I was like, I remember then that Mr. Perfect's grabbing them. I see, yeah, your fingers. And I don't know, man. I like really want him over with me that I remember that it was the fingers. Wow. Who's your all-time favorite? Oh, man. That's so tough.

Got a lot of family members. It could be. I know. Oh, man. So if you, I'm sure it's the same as you for, like, guys that you think are your favorite. I'm sure it alternates all the time. Mine alternates all the time, it alternates kind of with, like, what I watched most recently or what I, what kind of mood I'm in.

Oh, man, I'm going to have to say Brett, because I watched a bunch of stuff back recently and just his storytelling and stuff is just so, I don't know, maybe it's underrated. I don't know if it's underrated, but it may be, like, it would have been so cool to see Brett's style, and I don't just mean Brett's style, but Brett, Brett's work right now, but I'd like to see it like right now,

how awesome it would be. And like, just that he just, he did everything a little bit differently at the time, especially at the time. And I, you know, before him, everything was very over the top and very animated. And then his was a, you know,

a bit more reality-based. And I don't, I just something, obviously, uh, growing up around him, I understand the, I'm biased. I get that. But, uh, yeah, I don't know, man, there's something about his storytelling. I just feel like he was so ahead of his time. Like, he was like 20 years ahead of his time. Yeah, like, you know, like how, like, for me and for, for, for, for my world, like, Randy Orton is the man.

Like, his facials are amazing. And he always knows where the cameras are. He's a genius when it comes to that. Everybody in like our world knows that. And Brett was that guy too. If you go watch those matches back, he's doing the same things. I just think he was almost ahead of the company in terms of those types of camera shots that we kind of look for now. Brett was really ahead of it, I think.

And I'm sure it's hard to pick just one, but what's your go-to Brett Hart match? So this one is, this is a good answer because it encompasses all of them, but of the Canadian stampede. But of course, you Brett versus Davy and Wembley, Brett versus Owen at WrestleMania. And for the longest time, I did not watch Brett and Steve Austin's WrestleMania match back because I saw it the first time and I loved it. And I was a giant Ken Shamrock fan, big UFC fan. So I just wanted to leave it in my memories and not harass that match. And I watched it when his DVD came out. And I remember pressing play and almost like watching it through like, I hope this is better than I.

I hope it's at least as good as I remember, please, because I've had those matches, even of my own where I watch a matchback, and I was like, oh, that was good. It's not good. My own matches. And man, I was like, I watched that match a lot. I watched it probably three weeks ago.

I think it's, to me, I think it's the perfect match with the most insane storytelling. You have three guys, you have three guys come into that match, one being Ken Charmerop, the referee. And when they leave, they're all in very different roles. Yeah. Now, like, Brett, obviously, they do that double turn. Now Steve Austin is looked at as a good guy.

Brett's the bad guy. Brett comes back to kick Steve a few more times and Shamrock throws Brett down. And then Brett backs down from Shamrock. So you make Shamrock as this guy right away. Those, Brett and Austin just switched. Now the reps are trying to help Steve. Steve's beating up the refs and walking out on his own. He didn't tap out.

He passed. There's just so much to that match, man. I love how you break down matches. This is amazing hearing this. I get too into it, man. I get too into like inside baseball stuff like that. A quick word from our sponsor, Blue Blocks, and then we'll get right back to the episode.

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and financial aid is available. BetterHelp wants you to start living a happier life today. Visit their website and read their testimonials that are posted daily. Visit betterhelp.com. com slash insight. That's betterhelphelp.com slash insight and join the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. In fact, so many people have been using BetterHelp that they're recruiting additional counselors in all 50 states. So the special offer for anybody listening to Insight right now is 10% off your first month. Just go to BetterHelp.com slash insights. That's BetterHelpHELP.com slash insight. Well, how different do you look at matches now that you're behind the scenes producing these matches, producing these storylines? Oh, yeah, big time. I mean, I try to look so into it. But the, so the secret that I've found for me is, and I have to get better at this, and I am getting better at it, but I want to get, I want to be the best at it.

I'm very good at, I think as we all are, but I'm very good at really breaking something down in hindsight. And being like, man, look at this there. And now I'm trying to get better at playing it all out in my mind before it goes out there and thinking, okay, would this be better there or is this better there or is it just good where it's at? And that's where I'm really trying to work on, like, I would say like, I mean, always, but this last year for sure, it's what I've, 2020 is what I really tried to work on. So my new thing now with the town is I'll be like, hey, this may totally throw you off.

I'm just going to throw this out there. I want to say it to you now. And if you don't like it, you don't like it, it's fine. But let me throw you this idea because I don't want to say it after the match. And then you go to me like, damn, I wish you said it to me before. I'd rather I say it to you. Now you look at me and say, TJ, that idea sucks. And I say, okay, no problem.

I just want to throw it out there. I didn't want to say it after because I've done that a million times. Hey, what if you did this? You're right. That would have been so awesome. And I know because it's happening like every match I've ever had as a talent. You always think of great. You always think of, I mean, not that you don't think of great stuff prior,

but you always come up with those switches post-match. So what I'm trying to do is almost stay ahead of that a lot of times now and try to play everything. out in my head and think, is something better? Does something fit better? Or is what we have very good? Yeah, I could only imagine how difficult it must be, number one, producing a match, but also two, wrestling in a match when you don't have that crowd to feed off of, because sometimes the crowd can change the whole course of the match. I mean, big time, like, that's one of my favorite stories in my own career is myself and Cesaro against New Day in Europe, where

we wrestled on Smackdown a few weeks prior. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We wrestled on Smackdown two days before. But there was some, I think wherever we were is maybe a three-week delay. So that match we just had on Smackdown won't air wherever we were for three weeks. So, you know, we're all tired from flying in that first night. When we do these European tours, you fly in, like say we did Smackdown Tuesday. You fly in Wednesday, but you actually get in Thursday morning.

you have a show Thursday night and the time difference and like you run a plane for like 10 hours. So like nobody's really rested. That first show, that first show can be so hilarious. Sometimes a lot of times they're so awesome because everyone's almost just on this like everyone's on their second win. So nobody's blowing up because you're already in that second win and the matches usually turn out awesome. But the process to get into it is like it's like starting a car that like won't quite start.

And it does. And then you have no problems with it for the rest of the day. exactly what it's like on these. So anyway, we were all pretty tired and we're like, hey, let's just, let's do something similar to what we just did on Smackdown yesterday. And then we'll and then we'll spruce it up and we'll change it up for the rest of this tour. But just to get through today, which our match, the Smackdown one wasn't, we weren't giving them some bean, what we felt was like a B match.

We were giving them great stuff. It just, we were just going to kind of almost go off memory a little bit. And, dude, we came out there and they cheered Natty, Cizaro, and I. And they booed New Day. And, like, I did all the little things I was doing at that time. Like, at one point, I hide behind Natty. And the crowd cheered. They cheered that.

And I just, like, looked and I was like, I don't know what to do now. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out of ammo. I just hit behind my wife. And they cheered. I don't know what to do. So first person asked was Cesar. I said, hey, man, if we switch, if we switch this and they get heat on me, I know to be on the fly, but can you blow a good comeback? And he's like, yeah, so okay. I asked Natty. She's on the floor. Like Woods loves telling the story because he's on the floor that night. Because New Day would always switch. That's what was really fine about wrestling them on that tour because there's the three of them. So they would like, I'd wrestle. You would only wrestle the same combo like two or three times on a 12-day tour because, yeah, they keep switching. So anyway,

Woods loves talking the story because he's on the outside and I ask him, dude, do you think we should switch and just take heed on me and you guys with the heels and we're the baby faces? And he's like,

teacher, why did you ask me? I said, dude, because I never want to be accused of like going into business for myself and we've all been guilty of like maybe hearing things a little bit like, oh, two people cheered for me.

Oh, 300 people cheered for me. It's very different. So I was like, I just wanted to make sure that guys said, because you and Natty were on the floor. So you guys really have like a good sense of, of the crowd's reaction. So I didn't want to, if we could have turned them and got them to boo, Cizaro and I and cheer for New Day,

and if I felt that we could have, then I would have tried to stay the course. But I just, it just was what it was. I think, you know, Cesarro obviously being, being Swiss, I think helped.

And I don't know. It just, the thing is, it turned out so awesome, completely on the fly. And my long-winded rant, But being without fans now, like that kind of doesn't happen. It's kind of whatever we set is what is what we do, which there's a, there's a plus

and a minus of that. At least like, at least it's kind of like in some ways directed a movie. Like if I direct a movie and this is the scene I wrote, well, I know that like a live audience isn't going to mess any of this scene up. The scene's going to go down the way it's the way it's written. It's like if a basketball team practices just without without an opposing. team, every play that runs is going to work. Now you, now you add another team opposing.

Now you add a crowd that maybe doesn't want what you're giving them. And all of a sudden, now you're making changes. And there's a really cool and really, really fun aspect of that, too, that thinking on the fly and switching on the fly is, it's a cool. And when you see someone that maybe he didn't, or maybe maybe he didn't know they had that in them. and you see them, you see it click and you see them do it, it's a great feeling, man.

It's awesome. You can just tell how passionate you are when you talk about wrestling. I love this. I love it. I mean, you've been back in the ring recently, and I think that those training videos of you being in the ring kind of started sending off some light bulbs for fans going, man, maybe TJ could work another match.

I know, I know. Believe me, I wish. I wish, but I don't dwell on it. The truth is I won't wrestle again. I tried doing one Royal Rumble. A lot of thought went into it, but it got turned down. And I'm not mad at it. It was kind of funny, the way Vince laid out to me said,

like, he's like, we can control everything that we can on our power, but there's, but what if something happens? Like, what if something we don't control happens? And in my mind where I didn't say this to him, but where my mind went was like, say someone jumped a guardrail and like pushes me from behind as I'm on. the steps or something and it shocks me back. I don't know.

That's just where my mind went. Then you fast forward three months after Brent and I are having this phone call. Three months later, that guy is taking Brett and Natty down at the Hall of Fame. And like in my mind, I was like, oh my God, I had this vision except that was me getting taken down. Yeah. So as soon as I, like, I already was that piece with it. And as soon as I saw that, I was like, this is exactly what happened in my mind.

I don't know if this is what Vince was talking about. But when he said it to me, this is what I interpreted it as. I'm good. So the idea was return at the Rumble in Phoenix last year? Not really return, but just kind of like give me a chance to write the final paragraph of my in-ring chapter. Well, think of the pop you would get. If your music went off, the pop you would get.

I was there. I was at the Royal Rumble in Phoenix. That was a huge stadium. I have a really funny, I feel like, man, I'm probably totally wrong. But I have a really funny for me. I feel like I have a funny connection with Phoenix. We did that WrestleMania there where we closed line, Vince. Then the next night, Harry and I wrestled Ms. and did show him.

We ended up putting my count-up, but we were like just baby faces kind of by default, and the people got behind us. I know that's the night after WrestleMania crowd, so it might not entirely be Phoenix. But then I've had a lot of other matches there. Like I had a six-man tag there on Superstars once, myself. Heath Slater and Justin Gabriel against Uso's and Tremperetta. And in terms of like hidden gems of like my matches,

that that one probably takes the cake. And we did, that's the first time when we did like the superplex to the floor. And we get like a standing ovation from that Phoenix. So the idea of you returning, did that begin with an idea that you had in your head or did someone else talk about this? No.

I always had it in my head to like at least approach the approach. it and just see, I always see it day by day, see how I felt with my neck and stuff. And I knew the secret with the Royal Rumble is that I could, I could, I could do it and not have to take any bumps. Because that's the big thing. Like, yeah, I can hit the ropes. I can springboard. That's okay. Probably landing on the springboard, like even, even springboarding and landing on my feet is probably not great for my neck. But bumping is the, bumping is the thing that stops me. Like I can do it. Like I train these guys and it's so fun to be in the ring.

It's literally like lit such a fire. That and, and man, I don't know. It's so crazy. It's this pandemic caused some of my best work as a producer for some reason. I don't know why. And they were rough days,

some of those PC days, those double tapings. But man, but it's all just lit this fire me. So I can kind of like chain wrestle. little bit with these guys and showed it like demo a couple things. But when it comes to the it's almost like now I know how these super minus the money. I know how these super actors feel because I can do the scene and then when it comes to the bump, it's like,

stuntman, I need you in here. Yeah, that, yeah, I need a stunt man now. We saw you in the ring recently with Brody Lee Jr. That was so cool to see it. It looks like that kid can work. Dude, he's insane. So, uh, classic me. I'm, I'm a, I'm a, always late. I'm late for like everything. Um, we call it hard time, but it's funny. Natty's usually on time and pretty good. I'm really bad. I don't, she's actually related. I'm not, but it like reverse osmosis went to me. I don't know. But I show up and Brody's there. I knew you was there, but I showed up and I didn't know this, but I guess they asked him earlier, do you want to go in the rain? He said, no, I'm okay. I'll just watch. So I'm talking to them

a little bit. And, um, and they're, they're running drills and they were kind of, there was a little like pot like they were done the last few people were done obviously you know we were going to wrestle and you said hey brodie you want to go in the ring he's like yes like he was like he didn't think about it as soon as i was even done saying it he said yes so he and i rolled in we can lock up he's yeah he's strong man he does uh he does jiu jit i knew he did amateur wrestling before but now he does jiu jitsu too so he's strong he like he came in and he like shot in later on to live he like shot in like a single leg, but also like when there's an outside leg, like tripped her. I was like, okay, this guy is serious.

So he and I are wrestling. At one point, he gives me something I'm kind of like selling in the corner. I see him he's in the opposite corner. I was like, oh, I wonder he's going to do. He's probably just going to run and like tackle me or something. He comes flying, hits me with a drop kick. Bang. I was like, what?

Then before I'm, like, I'm just laughing. Before I can even like be done laughing, he's already back in that other corner. I'm like, oh, he's going to do another one. wrong, cannonball. Bang. Dad, he's funny, man. He has energy forever. It was hard to get him out of that ring,

in a good way. And I was like, okay. And little Nolan was in there too. And then I was like, okay, let's let them wrestle for a little bit. And then I have these little crash pads. And he's like, can we jump on the crash pad? Is he?

Yeah. So we brought it over, stacked the two on top of each other. Then he just kept, dude, he just kept jumping off the steps and like, he would do a fraud splash. or he would do a coffin drop or he would do a leg drop or he would do an elbow or he would do a swan ton.

And then he started making me call out different wrestlers and he would do their move onto this crash pad. And man, and he just kept jumping. And then he realized like if they weren't hitting the ropes, he could jump on the apron. And it's a little bit higher than the steps. You'd jump on the steps. Jump on the apron and jump on the pad. And oh, my man, energy for days. Wow.

It's like he got all of this from his father. man so um i i've said this it was it was wild i kept watching him and um obviously he knows what he's doing but i wonder like how much of it is just like he's been probably doing this for so long in terms of playing but he kept doing like the brodie thing and he kept doing like the spinning clothes line and i'd be like looking at his face he didn't it was like his face just glowing he's time of his life but then he's also a little heel he like we're all up we're like all in the outside of the ring he's like wrestling with live and he comes to like shake our, you know, high five us.

And then when you go to high, he goes, ah, you suck. Then next thing you know, it was really funny. It was really funny because he didn't. He, at one point, at one point he's like, Teddy showed up, Teddy Hart. And Brody's kind of a promo on Teddy's said, get in here if you even think you have a chance. Wow. And how old is he? He's eight.

Oh, my God. He's unbelievable, man. Wow, this is a star in the maker. Yeah. And the little bro. brother, it's like so tough too. Brody, Brody's a, you can tell he's a good big brother there wrestling around. It was cool, man.

It was so cool to see, you know, just even see, I'm not around them a lot, but even just, if that was like, if that just helped them kind of escape things for two minutes, is 10 times, it's worth everything. Yeah. Who's wrestling school were you guys at for that? Oh, that's my, that's mine. I have a warehouse in a ring like 20 minutes from my house. But it's not an official wrestling school.

Yeah, it's not a school. It's just kind of like a private club. Or it's not a school yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure eventually. It's one of those things I've played with in my mind a lot. I train people before when I was younger. And it's definitely something I like doing.

I just, I wasn't sure why didn't want to open a full on school, especially, well, I mean, first off, this pandemic is a part of it. But also, when I trained people before, I could physically do everything so I could physically show you. I didn't know if I'm a good trainer at this level where I can't physically do everything. Like, being a producer is a little bit similar in terms of helping put matches together. But, like, for example, if I'm helping, if I'm helping, you know, Natty versus, Natty versus Becky put a match together, I don't have to teach them how to take a back bump. They're super advanced. You know what I mean?

So it's a little bit different. But what I've realized is like as long as I have like another good like almost like a second coach under me that he can actually demo the stuff and I can explain it and kind of demo things like I said to a point where I need my stunt my stunt band to come in. Yeah. What do you not feel comfortable in the ring doing because of your neck? I think we'll see just bumping. Have you taken any bumps in the last six years? No, no bumps. Just, just, I'm, well, minus the one I took on the treadmill at the gym one day that I

pretended nobody saw, but I like ate it on a ate it on the treadmill. Someone left the treadmill on, like maybe like point two or three, but I didn't, I thought it was like so, so I literally thought it was off. And I like, so I stepped on the side and then I put like one foot on, but not realize. it and it just like it just took me and I like hit my I remember like I was doing an hour of cardio and I like I didn't want to look down but my hand when I did find though 20 minutes later after this thing you went away my hands were all straight my knee my shins were like I was like okay I remember thinking that's the first pump I've taken in quite a few years what do you think is one thing that you now know as a producer

that you wish you had known when you were wrestling um a lot of uh a lot of the can't stuff. And, you know, that might be kind of vague. But I think a lot of, like, the camera stuff in terms of, like, just how to get the best camera shots of everything and how to, how I would have been like, like, I talked with Jason Jordan about this a bunch, too, because he's always talks about it. He's like, man, if I, if it happens and if he wrestles again, he's like, I have such

a different knowledge now. You just, and just sitting in a room of, like, all these guys, like Michael Hayes and John Johnny Laurenitis and Fit Finley and Mike Rotondo and Dean Blanco and Arn Anderson and Vince and Hunter like you can't sit you can't sit in a room with these guys week after week after week and not pick up all types of stuff. There might be some stuff that you're like, well, it doesn't really work for me, but there's so much that you just are like, wow, I wish I thought about that and I presented that.

But yeah, I think camera wise certain things and I said this before. I've said this to like I think like it's funny. We're like right now the big thing is because like you said, we don't have an audience. So it's we have to almost manifest this, this intensity ourselves that a lot of times the audience helps bring out, you know, and that vibe.

And so it's a matter of like how do you, how do you psych yourself up for that? And I've kind of, like, that was one thing I was good at in terms of, like, I wrestled that, I was in FCW for two years. I wrestled a lot of practice matches and the empty arena. I wrestled a lot of people's, like, first kind of matches, like, Dave Otonga's first kind of matches at the arena with me. Bo Ratondo, one of his first matches or very first is with me. I wrestle a lot of people's, like, first matches.

So I've wrestled in that environment of, like, no fans. And, but, like, when producers would come down to FCW, you got to treat it. Yeah, there's no fans. There's just your peers. but you have to treat it like it's the biggest thing. You can't phone in those days that the producers come down. Right. What do you think is the biggest piece of feedback that you're giving

before or after a match to the matches that you're producing? So originally I was saying, in terms of this pandemic, I was saying like, hey, it was advice I was given to all of us. But I was like, hey, don't rush things. Probably there's going to be a tendency to rush because there's not an audience to kind of react to and let them do their thing and then move on to the next. And it was like, so you're going to feel like a natural.

And that, oh, sorry, let me let this guy. I knew the cats would come back in a player. And you're, I didn't really. He was done listening to my stuff. You've been sitting on a workout bench this whole time. I love it. It's comfy. A real gym rat.

Yes, big time. So, yeah, that was my biggest advice at the beginning of the pandemic with this is just try not to to rush. I know it's going to be really hard. And then now we have now we have like that audio so it it helps. But when there were no fans, I remember like Uso's against New Day. I believe I was Uso's and New Day at a match to the PC where they kind of treated it like, it felt like a game of like pickup basketball almost.

Like there's a lot of trash talking between we didn't have the NXT people as fans at this point. So it's no fans. You just hear the announcers and what's happening in the ring. So they treated it like where they just kind of like trash talk the whole time. and it was this awesome vibe. And then that became kind of like, guys like that was like, that was the blueprint of like how,

how I think this is done. So yeah, I'd say that. So that audio that we hear on TV of the fans, that's actually piped into the arena too. Yeah. So the first day at Amway, it was not. And Bailey actually, she's like, TJ, it's so awkward.

It's because now we've gotten used to the NXT audience. so at least was a little something, you know. And so then I remember in the meeting, they were like, hey, what did everybody think? He's like, yo, that Thunderdome looks awesome. For what we have in terms of like where the world's at at the moment, this is amazing. And I just said in the meeting, I said, is there any way or does it mess you got, does it mess up the production to pipe the noise into the arena? Because I think it will help the talent.

I said, I spoke with a lot of talent. from the week before and they said like this that that was kind of what was missing and then they had kevin was like yeah it's no problem and then so they pump it in and i think it helps it i think it helps a lot at least at least kind of helps you have a chance of like losing yourself in it and letting go and because obviously you can if you just sit and think about these it's not real noise and like it's not like the audience is real people that are but virtually if you psych yourself out it's i'm sure it's probably easy really really psych yourself out in this environment.

So the wrestlers have you to thank for that crowd noise. This is your idea. Yeah, I like to think that I definitely have my pulse on the talent. And I ask them questions. And I was, I mean, Bailey, she's the one who told me, she's a Smackdown. The first Thunderdome was a Smackdown. So then that was Friday.

So the following Monday is when, so two days later, I just asked Kevin if we could just pipe in the noise. I thought it would help. And then, but I, so Bailey, like, it to my attention, then I asked a lot of people. And they all kind of said the same that they thought the noise would help them. Yeah. What do you think's been the biggest lesson that you've learned personally over this last,

you know, over the lockdown, over the last 10 months? Man. I guess and I used to think I was good at it, but maybe I've gotten better. But you've got to kind of live in the moment. I think we've realized, I think we realize like what our plans are for, tomorrow. That's cool. It's cool to have plans for tomorrow. But I mean, for example, like back last March, March 2020, I was getting a haircut on a Thursday and I had a flight to Detroit a few hours later. And I got a call from Johnny telling me, hey, have you flown already?

Because a lot of times I'll book, like, for example, going to Phoenix, I'll book a super early flight and go straight. And I, because I'd like be in there the whole day. And he said, you didn't book an early flight this week, did you? I said, no, I'm home. I'm in Florida.

And he said, okay, say, don't, don't, don't get on the plane. He said, we're not, we're not running in Detroit tomorrow. We're going to run on the PC. So, like, but the day before and all that day,

I thought I was going to Detroit. And so, like, I think what we've learned through this is, it's good to have plans, but they may not. You got to just be patient and kind of, like, live in that moment. Yeah.

This is also the same advice you had for, you know, the wrestlers when they were starting to work. Be patient. This is like a big takeaway here. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I think, I mean, this is really taught a lot of us to kind of slow things down a little bit and to like, absorb everything and like kind of take it in and then and then react. Yeah. How close do you think they were to having WrestleMania in Tropicana Field?

Because I feel like, you know, there were PC shows. there was raw, there was Smackdown, then there was Raw, then there was NXT, and we were all kind of going, yeah, but WrestleMania can't be in the PC. Oh, at Raymond James. Oh, sorry, Raymond James. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so I thought it was, I don't know, I thought it was close, but I also, I don't know, I guess there's a part of me that was like, man, I don't think WrestleMania. I remember when that hit me, I was like, I don't think WrestleMania is going to happen. Yeah. At Raymond James.

And I was like, and if so, it might happen. So what I thought actually was Raymond James, but empty, empty Raymond James. I think that's what a lot of people thought. Yeah, which I don't know, like, I guess now with our Thunderdome style set up with the LED and all that, it would, it would look good. But in that moment, you know, it's WWH WrestleMania, but it just would have been so, what is it, what is a, you know, a 65, or 80,000 feet stadium? look like empty with a ring in the middle of it. That's a long walk down to the ring with no one cheering you on.

Usually that's at least a 50-yard walk. That ramp is usually 50 yards. There was the one year, maybe it was Orlando. Yeah, maybe 70 or 80. Yeah. Wow. I do have to say, though, WrestleMania is my favorite pay-per-view of last year

because of how quickly WWE was able to put everything together. Like, you guys did that with like two weeks notice after building for 14 months planning to do this in a football stadium. I know, yeah. And the talent killed it, man. Like, I couldn't believe WrestleMania. Like, that three-way ladder match, those guys were having a ladder match, those guys were having a ladder match literally with no fans.

like as a wrestler it'd literally be like I show up at wrestling practice like today we're going to train tonight imagine the guys show up and I have a ladder. I'm like, all right guys, we've got a ladder match today. We're doing only ladder matches today. You guys are first. You guys will be on set. Like it'd just be insane. And to give like a WrestleMania level ladder match.

Man, you know, I'm always going to have the highest praise for our talent, but our talent across the board, man. And like, I love these people. They're crazy. Like, that woman's five-way. I love that match at WrestleMania. And that one was cool because there were five of them. So there's not an audio.

Yes, we had our announcers. But like I said, the only sound you really hear is the ring and the announcer's no fans. So if you watch it back, there's a lot of dialogue happening with Bailey, with Sasha, with Naomi, Lacey, Tamina. And it became a very awesome and cool thing. And I think that's where they really started to find, I think. And I actually had this talk with Edge when I saw them recently. This is definitely not the most ideal situation. We all know that.

But what we've really learned from this is who can work, who can work and who can speak. Because a lot of times, it's not a bad thing, but a lot of times we use the audience as a crutch. And there's no crutch. You just got you just got to go. And, and maybe the people who maybe weren't as good at it, but now here we are 10 months later. Maybe they're awesome at it now. And it's, it's, that seems so much growth. That's the crazy thing about, you would think that in this environment, it'd be really easy to coax, I guess. And across the board, like everything I'm watching, nobody's coasting. Yeah. And that's so awesome to see. Yeah. I'm, I like that you mentioned edge.

and I'm so glad that he had his moment with the crowd at the Royal Rumble. Oh, man, yes, yes. So you know what? This is the biggest thing I see to town. When I'll say, we'll, I'm the producer. I'm not in there. We'll have what I feel is an awesome match. And they're probably supposed to hear me saying.

I was like, man, you guys killed it. Imagine this moment if there had been a crowd there. Imagine that one if they're in a crowd. Hopefully soon. Hopefully. You know, hopefully this can be, at least maybe even small crowds coming back. I hope it's a thing soon. Yeah, like I know UFC, the Conner fight is going to have like 2,000 fans.

Well, that's also in Abu Dhabi. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Situation there. And even like that's kind of like when someone told me that two days ago, I was like, 2,000 fans. I don't know. Is that better than, like, is it better to just have no fans? Like, for example, for Connor, it's such a big, his fights are such big spectac.

He wanted to do this at Cowboy Stadium. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And to do it with 2,000 fans, I don't know. Is it better zero fans? You don't know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. It's really funny. UFC's really interesting because, you know,

you'll have commentators like Joe Rogan or D.C. or Michael Bisbing who know the ins and outs of every move. They'll call something out, and then you'll see the fighters adjust to it in the octagon. It's so crazy to see. Yeah. The one guy, he thanked DC on his post-fight. He said, thanks, DC.

He heard him. I'm a big, like, a big fan. And I love, I love watching it way better with all the fans, to be perfectly honest. It's a much more pure fight, I feel like. Yeah, Ben, you nailed it. It's very pure. And you, like, I love being able to hear the corners, but, like, not just between rounds, but during the fight as well, it's so cool.

And, I mean, if you're a fight fan, obviously, you got to love this. sounds of the shots that are not being, sometimes you don't always hear it with the audience. If they're going crazy, you don't hear it all. But like that Gaichi Ferguson fight, you heard everything. Yeah. So, okay, so who do you like? Connor or Porre in this fight?

I just had this conversation. I know I'm name dropping here. I just had this conversation with Booker T. So I hope I, he picked Poetier. I picked Connor. So we'll see. Wow. I think you can't sleep on Dustin, but I think that-

I think Dustin's awesome. I just think, we'll see. Obviously, on social media, nobody posts the worst of themselves, usually. But I think in terms of, like, being a fan, I don't think I've ever seen Connor look better in terms of what I've seen out there. Agreed. And they're fighting in a different weight class. I mean, we could go out completely different discussion about this,

but it's going to be interesting. I picked Connor second round, K.O. I could see that. I just saw Connor says within the first 60 seconds, cowboy style. We'll see. I don't know. That sounds like something he would say. That might be a bit extreme.

I think Connor cuts better promos than most wrestlers. He gets better promos than most people, period. It's unbelievable. Politicians, too. Look, T.J., I've really enjoyed this chat. It's so good catching out with you. It's been two and a half years since I've had you on the show. Yeah, it's crazy.

And, yeah, like you were saying earlier, like, we just ran into each other there that day and just kind of did that interview. Yeah, that was like, that was, I loved that conversation, but I'm glad that now we were able like set a date, set of time and make this thing happen. It's so funny because it's just funny how that was two and a half years ago at that point, all I, at that point, I just kept having Seth's matches. I just kept working so much with Seth. And now things have changed. Now I just work with the girls.

And so like, it's just funny. Like, and two and a half years later, I'm, uh, I'm so much better at my job now than I was then. But I needed, I needed all that time to put in. It's like everything, but I needed to put all that time in to get to this point now. But like the guys like Seth and Dolph were such, you know, Michael Hayes, Jamie Noble, but in terms of the talent, Seth and Dolph, they helped me so much to like get into it and feel it and actually get where I was good at this from being, but yeah, it was awesome.

Two and a half years from now, you'll be that much better. I hope so. I end every interview by asking, what are three things? in your life that you're grateful for right now? Because I say that if you can be grateful, you will live a great life. Wow. Wow. Three things.

I mean, obviously my health. That's something I don't take lightly. I'm grateful that throughout this pandemic, I've been able to continue working and continue. Again, that's what's the crazy part is like, I felt like 2020 as, the producer was my been my best work like by a lot like by a lot and that wouldn't have if if everything if we'd shut down too I wouldn't have been able to to do that and it's so I'm grateful I'm grateful that

uh grateful for that and um third one yeah I guess I'm just like man man I don't know this one's It's tough to just narrow it down to three things. You could just, you know, all-encompass it and say the family. Then you got Natty. Then you get the cats. You get everybody. I mean, for sure, for sure, my family, like my mom. I know she's a little bit worried about, she was obviously worried about COVID and stuff.

And she's obviously been fine this whole time. So, yeah, definitely. Of course, family. But I just was running, I guess, with my own health. But my health and then my family's. And the health of the cats. Yeah, I mean, yes. One of the guys just, he had a hernia.

The one that was in here, Louis, he had a hernia. that he had to get fixed. He had crystals in his bladder and stuff. So he's good now. He's put his weight back on, no issues. So he's been great. But the vet loves him when he comes in because they know a lot of money's coming their way.

I said this before, and I'll say it again. No one loves cats more than T.J. Wilson. No, man, I love him. Love him. Thank you so much, man. That's great. Thank you very much, man. Anytime. This is fun.

T.J. Wilson, Tyson, kid. Man, whatever you want to call him, that is an awesome, solid dude. How can you not be inspired listening to him? And I just love how instead of going, oh, man, what if? What if I hadn't got injured? What would my career look like now? He focuses on where he is right now in his life, and he focuses on how he can be the absolute best at what he's doing.

Man. And I said it earlier, but. as phenomenal as he was in the ring. And ask anybody, T.J. Wilson was the most underrated wrestler. In all of wrestling, as good as he was, he's that much better now, behind the scenes as a producer.

Think about that. If you enjoyed this, take a screenshot, tag us on social media. I'd love to share your post on Instagram or Twitter. So tag me. I'm at Chris Van Vleet.

T.J. is at T.J. Wilson on Twitter, at T.J. Wilson, 711 on Instagram. And you know how I end every interview asking the three, things that my guests are most grateful for. Part of that reason is, though, that I can hopefully get you into that headspace of thinking about things that you're grateful for in your own life because, I promise you, there's a lot more good in your life than there is bad in your life.

But I'll leave you with this quote from John F. Kennedy about gratitude, and this one really hit me. As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter the words, but to live by them. That's good. Be great. Be great for my friends. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight.

Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media

about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports. smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome show podcast. What should be? Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

You've been warned.