Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Tyson Kidd Confirms He Will Never Wrestle Again, WWE Producer Job, Bret Hart, Natalya

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

TJ Wilson (@TJWilson) known by his ring name Tyson Kidd is a retired professional wrestler and wrestling producer with WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at his home in Tampa, FL to talk about his role as a WWE producer, some of the recent matches he's proud of producing, his iconic hairstyle when he was an active competitor, being tag team partners with Cesaro (Claudio Castagnoli), his career-ending injury in 2015, why he says he will never wrestle again, The Dungeon that he and Natalya Neidhart opened in Florida, what he learned from Bret Hart and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: Happiness is not by chance but by choice. - Jim Rohn Sponsors: ZBIOTICS: Get 15% off with the code CVV and have a better morning after you drink at http://zbiotics.com/cvv MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com FITBOD: Get 25% off when you use the code INSIGHT at http://fitbod.me/INSIGHT GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 15% For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are gathered. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blaine. Oh, yeah. Welcome back to another one on Insight. I'm CBV, Chris Van Vle. Thank you for being here, and thank you for making this. One of the top wrestling podcasts in the world.

And that happens because you show up each and every week. And it happens because I know you're following the show. And if you're not, please click follow wherever you're listening to this. And remember a few weeks ago when we had Natalia on the show? I got a lot of messages from people saying, oh man, if you did this interview at her house, did you also do an interview with Tyson Kid, T.J. Wilson? And I kept saying to people, you just wait, give it a few weeks. And here we are. This is our third interview that we've done together. And the thing that I'm reminded every time I talk to T.J. is whether it's an interview

or whether it's a text or a DM, I'm just reminded how positive he is. He just has this genuine passion for life. And look, every wrestling fan knows his story about the muscle buster from Samoa Joe that went wrong in 2015. It ended TJ's in-ring career, almost ended his life. And I understand how he has a totally new appreciation for life. But that passion he has just oozes out of him. It's so infectious. And I love it. He's been working behind the scenes in WWE as a producer, specifically handling a lot of the women's matches lately. So any of the epic women's matches you've been seeing, he has a role in putting those together.

But it's been really interesting because over the last few years, we've seen returns from people that were told they could never wrestle again, right? Edge, Page, Daniel Bryan, and I think that a lot of people throw Tyson Kidd into that. Oh, man, if they told all those other people, they can't wrestle. and they had a broken neck and they came back Tyson Kids next, right? He confirmed to me that is never going to be the case. It is a completely different injury and he's really happy doing what he's doing now. But this puts this to rest.

I guess he's talked about it a bunch, but he puts it to rest that it's a C1, C2 injury, completely different. This is basically his neck broke at the base of his brain. He gets into all of the details here. but all of this is to say is he's really happy doing what he's doing. And I couldn't be happier seeing him as happy as he is. You're going to love this. Please share this with somebody and snap a screenshot and let us know that you're listening as well.

Tag us. He's at T.J. Wilson. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. Let's do this. Please welcome Tyson, kid, a.k.a. T.J. Wilson. Good to see you again. Chris, always good to see you.

I think it's been five years since we sat down in person. I guess we were standing actually. We stood. In a very cold room. It was freezing. That's Florida for you, right? Yep. Hot, really odd outside, really cold inside.

Far too cold inside. Yeah, and then we did one over Zoom, but yeah. Nothing beats doing this in person. No, hell no. This is awesome. That's so good. Thank you for inviting me into your home. Oh, it's my pleasure.

Your cats have welcomed us in here. Yeah, it's. Do we have one? I glanced over, yeah, this guy. Oh, who's this? Big Louie's got to come see me always. Come here, Louie? Big Louie.

Louie. Well, now he'll play the same. game frog, but he listens fairly well. Come on. I want to grab me. Oh, okay. He'll make his way over at some point. A lot of cats in here. Yeah, there's quite a few.

The hearts love their cats. Like, yeah, there's, I don't, it's so funny. Eddie talks about cats all the time. I happen to love cats even before I got engulfed by the Hart family. So it's a double whammy. Look at this. Yeah, they run the house. We just happen to live here.

Natty's stealing the cats away here. Yep, one at a time. I've seen so many videos that you guys have been posting inside your dungeon. Yes, sir. And I feel like, you know, fans will see you get in the ring, you know, doing some hands-on stuff. And immediately people are like, ah, TJ could come back. Yeah. Where are you on that? I mean, I know they say never, say never, but I've said never for the last few years.

No, the truth is I can do, like, I can do probably in some things, I can do like 99% of the move. I just can't do the actual bump. Yeah. Or, you know, and I'm sure maybe I could take a couple, but, but at what cost? Or, I don't know, like, I haven't, I haven't taken one. So there's no. What's the point? There's no point to me.

What's the point in trying one that could, it really hurts you? Now, if I am very fortunate, you know, I really enjoy my work as a producer. If I didn't, and if I didn't have that outlet, I could understand why I would try to venture out and maybe try taking a bump and see how that felt and kind of go from there. But luck, I'm very, I'm very blessed. And luckily, I don't have to go down that avenue. So I just don't think I'm going to, well, not I don't think. I know I'm not going to go down that avenue.

I think people hear a neck injury and they just lump all them into the same category. Yeah. So people think like, oh, you had the same thing as Edge, right? It's a net. And he came back. Yes. And Brian, Brian Davis. And Page, yeah.

Yep. Yep. And I get that. I get those messages a lot and I get that mindset. I understand where that comes from. I believe Steve Austin has the second highest, at least in terms of WWE wrestler, in terms of how high their fusion is.

His was, I think, a C3 and C4. Most of the normal one is like C5 and six or six and seven. Mine's C1 and C2. The very top two vertebrae in your body, mine are fused. That's the difference. That's why even when it happened, well, when I posted the picture of the scar, the staples in the back. Yeah. Well, one of the benefits of joining the Broken Net Club is, as I refer to it, Steve Austin becomes a friend of yours.

And he reaches out to you and you text and phone call all the time. But I posted that picture. And within like 20 minutes, Austin was either calling me or texting me. And he's like, kid, why did they go through the back? Why not through the front? And I explained, well, Steve, it's the equivalent of. where they went is the equivalent of my mouth. That's where my fusion is. It's adjacent to my mouth. I don't think people realize that. Yeah, it's that high up. Wow. Or you'll see a lot of people that have had it.

They kind of have that scar. Yeah. Natty was saying it's like the one right under your brain. Yeah, yeah. Wow. That's wild. But the work you're doing behind the scenes, it's just incredible.

And I mean, it's grown so much since the last time I talked to you, too. Yeah. And it's, it's always a challenge. And the challenge is always to top whatever. we did last time. And that's kind of, that's the, that's the cool thing about,

about, about what we do and about, about, about wrestling being 52 weeks a year. Say you don't like your match on Monday. You'll guess what? Next Monday, you'll have another chance and the following,

the following, the following. So that's kind of the, I always will say to the talent, like, would that come back a little bit frustrated. I'm like, are you hurt? And they're like, no.

I said, okay, well, then we can do this again next week. And it'll be better. And that's the progress. So what, What are some of the matches that lately you've been working on that people can go watch and go, ah, I see. I was really proud of Charlotte, Bianca, and Oska at SummerSlam, Triple Threat. I was really proud of the Women's Royal Rumble this year.

I loved it. I thought all the drama and the suspense on the end with Liv, Ria, and Oscar was exactly what we were looking for. And the truth is I had, I learned some. I had a whole different finish plan using Naya, who I got okayed to come in as a surprise entrant. She wasn't resigned yet at that point. And I had a whole different finish involving her. And it got changed maybe two days before.

And I remember thinking like, oh, I'm not going to come up with anything better. You know, felt a little frustrated. Not mad at anybody. That's the game. Sometimes your idea goes through and sometimes there's little tweaks. And so what's funny is I learned a very valuable lesson. We ended up coming with a way better finish than the one I had mapped out in my mind. It was way, way better.

So I learned a lesson that not fall in love with these, not get married to these ideas because things change and it's all moving parts and we'll figure it out. The town's good enough that we will absolutely figure this out. This episode is brought to you by My Bookie and with UFC 295 this weekend and WV. Survivor Series just around the corner, it's time to put your money where your mouth is at MyBooky. And yeah, you heard that right. You can bet on WWPLEs at MyBooky.ag. If you haven't signed up yet,

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Cash in and win! With My Booky, baby, use that promo code CVV. You'll grab a free cash bonus on top of your first deposit. You can bet anything, anytime, anywhere, only with My Booky. This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew. And if you've ever been thinking of trying Blue Chew, how about your first month for free? Yeah, when you use the promo code, CVV at checkout at bluechew.com, you'll get your first month for free. You just have to pay $5 for shipping.

Guys, this is the same active ingredients as Viagra, Sealis, and Lovitra, but it's in chewable tablets and a fraction of the cost. And the best part, it's all done online. There's no doctor's visits, no awkward conversations, no waiting in line at the pharmacy. And look, even if you don't struggle in the bedroom department, this is kind of a fun thing to try. And I promise you, the Mrs. or the girlfriend or whoever it is is going to be a big fan of this too. Bluechew.com. Use that promo code. CVV at checkout and you get your first month for free. You just have to pay $5 for shipping. That's bluechew.com. The promo code is CVV. Walk us through a day. So you get to the arena. Do you already know your matches at that point? Usually.

yeah. Not always, but usually. And then do you get with the talent at that point? Yeah, well, first I'll have the production meeting in the day. That's the first thing I do. Then get out of the production meeting. Then, yeah, then get with the talent. Then start kind of strategizing and figuring out, you know, a lot of things factor into these matches, how much time we have. Is it two segments? Is it three segments? Is it one? Where are we on the show? Is there another, since I work with the women almost exclusively is there another woman's match on the show okay what are they doing that then we're going to do very different so the if there's two on that show or three keep them all very different from each other um there's a lot of moving parts and a lot of a lot of different

aspects that go into it i mean you know it sounds so crazy but a four minute match and a seven minute match are very different in terms of putting it together it's very different in what way just in terms of like there's just a lot more i i've had this conversation a bunch with bailey but like so a four minute match or a seven or eight minute match again let's just say even let's say 10 in 10 minute match you know if you mess up a couple things in the beginning or maybe your ideas when you're putting it together maybe they weren't exactly you weren't hitting in the beginning you have a few more minutes to like get out of that and be you know and the whole match by the end could be totally different in a four minute three four minute match every city you know you might plan let's just say six

things let's say five things each thing is worth 20% of that match sure so each thing is now has so much more importance in the shorter match a shorter match is it's crazy they're there are a lot trickier to put together than the longer ones a 20 minute match is obviously you know you have to fill that 20 minutes and if the story's right that actually shouldn't be that hard on But a five-minute match is a little tricker to put together than a 20-minute match if you can believe that. Now, again, cardio and all that is a whole different ballgame. But a five-minute match is tricky because, you know, like whoever's losing, they want to make sure that they look good before losing. And you got only, you know, three or four minutes to do that.

You know, the time crunch is very different. When the match is actually on, are you watching it in guerrilla? I'm in Gorilla. I have the headset on. I always joke that you haven't really worked in the B2 put that headset on at least one time. It's crazy. You put that headset on and you're talking to a lot of people at one time. Every camera guy can hear me. When I press the ring channel, whatever. Every cameraman can hear me. The truck can hear me. The referee can hear you. The referee. I can talk to the ref. Hunter. Triple H. Bruce Pritcher. I mean, whoever's got the headset on Billy Kidman, who's timing the show, you put that headset on, you're talking to at least like 15 people,

but, but, but like maybe five or six are talking back to you. And you're trying to watch the match, and you're trying to communicate to the truck of like what's, you know, if you don't want to miss shots,

so what's happening next. And a lot of times the talent will come to the back and they'll ask me what I thought of the match. And I can give them a general view of the match, but I always tell them I have to go and watch it after by myself because there's just too much stuff going on. I'm checking the time. I'm talking to the truck.

I'm talking to the ref. Hey, make sure. Hey, tell them plan B, plan B. I mean, that happened a few weeks. I matched a few weeks. I was very proud of Becky and Zoe Falls County Anywhere match. And that was, we, there was a lot of audibles going on on the fly that if you,

if you just, if I were to just watching it and I didn't know, you wouldn't catch them. But when I, when I'm at home watching it back, Like I cut that one, I cut that one, cut that, okay. Plan B in terms of what's going on in the match or like an actual different finish. Not a different finish, but just either making something longer or making it shorter depending on time, especially when you have, when you have that last segment on Smackdown or Raw,

there's no, there's not an overrun anymore. That thing's, it's tense. It's tense. Like on headset, you know, they start, they'll hit you with the, okay, we have. five minutes to drop dead. I remember the first time I heard drop dead. That's pretty intense, man. We're going to drop.

Well, that means that no matter what's going on, the show ends. Yes. Yeah. And so plan B, plan A is always, hey, let's get this finish on TV. That's always plan A. I was talking to one of your fellow producers was talking to Shane Helms. And he was saying what was so interesting was he gets so much. Like now that he's a producer,

he gets so much of like, oh, why stuff is a certain way or like he wished he had known when he was a wrestler how things actually worked behind the scenes. That gave me goosebumps because it's so true. It's, you know, it's one of those things. It's like, you wish, you wish you knew now, you wish you knew then what you know now and you could apply it, you know, like if I could, if I could take what I know now and apply it to even say like from my NXT run on, how different that would be just in what I know, you know. And that's just. I guess that's life. Wrestling is funny like that.

I always say that it's like you're, when you start out your physical, you know, when you start out, you're young and you're invincible and your physical is like a 10 out of 10, but what you know about actually what you really know, not in terms of like, you know,

knowing that Hulk Hogan beat Iron Sheat to win the title, but like in terms of what you actually know when you're in there is maybe a two out of 10. And as time goes, as time goes on, the two start to balance. Yeah. And then somewhere the mind starts to overtake the physical.

And, you know, you start to see glimpses of it. Like, to me, like, Brett Hart in 96, 97, that Hart Foundation run, 1997, like, his promos were, like, perfect, his work. Everything had connected at that point. And it was, he's 40 years old at that run, 3940. You know, you've been doing it his whole light. The encyclopedic knowledge that you have about pro wrestling is like rain man level. It's so weird. I try to distract myself with so many other things.

So that way, wrestling, it's this constant battle. And I love wrestling. But I try not to let it because for many, for a couple decades, it like consumed everything. And me now I try to play a lot of 2K. And I'm a big basketball fan. So I'm excited for the NBA season to start again soon. And I'm a big UFC fan. I engulf myself and all these.

other things, but really it's like wrestling's like, you can try if you want to, but we know that you remember everything we've done. It's true. I do, I have a, I have a phenomenal memory, but when it comes to wrestling, it's like extra for some reason. I don't know what. You can like tell us finishes of matches that happened 27 years ago. Yeah, yeah, hell yeah. Especially if like, if it meant something to me, absolutely I will tell you. Hell yeah. I was talking to Nick Aldous, he's a huge Brett Hart fan. He says that his favorite match was, we're going to go down a real rabbit.

Uh-oh. Was Bradhart, Mr. Perfect, but King of the Ring? And he was talking about like the just nuances during this. You know what I'm talking about? I know the match, yeah. He was talking about the nuances of like, then Brett does this and then Brett did this thing and then Mr. Perfect did this.

I'm like, oh, man. That's just the way you guys think. You know what's really funny, man? Again, goosebumps. So here's the thing. You just brought up King of Ring 93. you just brought up Brett and Mr. Perfect and my memory. I will tell you, I can, this is a funny story,

and I don't mean I'm going to try to make it not long-winded. How I kind of, we're not even kind of how I won Brett over. We were training at his house in 96. We wrestled a WWB live event match at the Saddle Dome in 1996. I was 16, Harry was 11, Teddy was 16. What? Yeah, we did it. Yeah, Harry was 11.

In the finish, he did a headbut off the, Teddy superplexed me and Harry did a head butt off the top rope at 11 years old. In front of like a crowd? Yeah, yeah, in front of, there might have been, it might have been like 5,000 or 6,000 people there that day. The Saddle Dome is,

Sean Michaels invaders the main event. It's just insane. 11 years old and 16? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, sorry, I've been interrupted your story. No, so, so Brett came to that show. He,

uh, you know, I don't know the inner workings. Maybe he had signed back, but this is like, the promo hadn't happened yet where he comes on TV

and says like that he's signing with WWE and he's going to wrestle Steve Austin at Survivor series. It's around that timeline, but it's not quite there yet. So we start training at Brett's house. Brett came that day and then he invited us to start coming and training at his house. So Teddy and I were training at his house.

And one day Brett was in the ring and he was in there with us. And he was telling us a story about, um, King Ring 93. and about how like when he found out he wasn't going to win any of the matches with the sharpshooter. And he said, you know, so I had them. So he's like, I wanted to come up with a reason logically the psychology as to why am I not winning with the sharpshooter these three matches. And he's like, do you guys know what it was?

And right away Ted jumped in and Ted said, oh yeah, they worked your knee. And Brett said no. And then I thought for a second, and I can remember like, I remember Razor stomping on Brett's hands. And then I remember Brett going for the sharpshooter with Mr. Perfect. And he grabs his fingers. And I said your fingers. And Brett, like, he almost like, he looked for a second. And he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, almost how did this kid know? And then I think that's what started the wheels of like, Brett was like, oh, this. He really does pay attention to details. Wow. And then last time I saw Brett, I was at his house a few months ago. And he knows. like I love the Ironman match, Brett and Sean. And I remember he said, so knowing what you know now, would you do it the way we did it where we just kind of go two minutes extra or would you go an extra like 15 or 20?

Oh, that's a good question. And I said, I said, that's a good question, man, because both work. And then Brett goes, no, no, I'm asking you. And I was like, oh, this isn't a retort. This is like, TJ's got to answer this question now. I said, man, I've seen the two minute version. Give me the 15 or 20. Let's see. I don't know. Let's see what it is. So you're putting your producer hat on here. Yeah. I mean, because before it would have been the fan hat. Of course.

Wow. And I was there live. Owen flew me to that rest of many at 12. So that's another reason. Like, an extra has like a special sentiment, sentimental value to me. I love that you're passing this all down,

not just through the producing, but also with what you guys have in your own dungeon. And the, I mean, the videos they have posted the names of the people that have been through there. We had Natty on. She was listening off a bunch of people. And she's like,

oh, I forgot all of these other people. Yeah, that she won't made sure that I mentioned them, which I will. I will. No, the truth is we have a great crew of people there. So I get why you start running on some names and you might forget some because you're just trying to make sure. You're trying not leave anybody out, but in doing so, you end up leaving people because you're just trying to name. You're thinking of the, you're trying to think of the people that you're almost forgetting rather than almost the obvious people that come to your mind. So it's like a workshop for like for established wrestlers that are just looking to, you know, get that just that one percent better.

Yeah, and what's cool is what my ultimate idea of it would be is basically what it is now. But yeah, I kind of needed everybody to get there. But exactly, where it is just a workshop where we kind of just throw around different philosophies and different psychologies and then almost like play them out and see if we feel it works or doesn't work and kind of just trying out different things. But, you know, it kind of needed everybody to get to a certain level before we could get. there like I trained a couple guys from scratch that I've improved immensely. It's just, it's a good, it's a, sorry, it's not even good. It's a great, it's just a great environment. Like I've had a lot of guys come and say to the two guys I train from scratch that

they've told them, I don't know if you guys realize it's not like a normal wrestling school. Like there's no, there's not a lot of like BS or backstabbing or, you know, that toxicity going on of, yeah, just. And that's not to say that that only happens in wrestling. It just is sometimes it's human nature and it, you know, gossip and that kind of thing happens. But at my ring, I feel like we don't have much of that. There's no point. It's not about, you know, getting booked on this local show.

Yeah. We have a bunch of guys like Dawkins who's on Smackdown. Apollo, who's, I believe, on Raw at the moment. B-Fab, again, who's on Smackdown. You know, you have Moose from Impact Wrestling. It's all these people from all these different places. And then it's almost like we all kind of come together. And then everybody kind of disperses and like,

all right, go spread the information and go. This is actually the opposite of most normal wrestling schools because a normal wrestling school, everybody's at that's like two out of ten. You know, they're learning everything for the first time. Here you've got people that have five,

10, 20 years experience that are just getting the rust off or they're just trying to get just a little bit better. And of course there's no, you know, jealousy because everybody already has a job. Yeah. I mean, yeah, most of the people, that is true. But like it's funny. I don't think it's a big deal to share this, but a few months ago or maybe six months ago, the Spears was texting me. And he was like, hey, are you running in practice today? He said, yeah. He said, is it cool to stop by? And I was like, yeah? And I was thinking like, weird.

I mean, he has his own ring. And it's much closer to his house. I assume. So anyway, he came to, he came to training and of course he was great. We've always gotten along. Great. And after he kind of, he gave a speech kind of to everybody, you know, and he was like,

man, this is a, this is a great facility. He said, guys, I'm usually working with guys that are brand new. He's like, I wanted to like get out and,

and just get a different change of scenery. And I was like, oh, it clicked. Like, he's training people, you know, from scratch to the three month mark and then they,

off they go. Yeah, yeah. And then rinse and repeat. And not, and I mean, rinse and repeat. as in like just new students coming in.

So he's always kind of in that newish. He's always working with newish people. And you can, and you definitely sharpen your skills, but it's a different set of skills than if you work with people that are polished and have more experience. Not more experience than spears,

but just more experience than the people you're normally in there with. So, you know, I was like, oh, all this is about balance. He's just getting a little bit of balance. He wanted to get in there with some people that had a little more experience. I got it.

Because for most, wrestlers that are working every week, the only time they're really getting in the ring is during their match. Yep. And maybe earlier in the day, if the ring's free. Yep. If the ring's free. Right.

What you've got here is like, you know, kind of an ability for anybody to drop by. Yeah. And especially like, especially if you have a, like obviously if we know you, but if you have any kind of, if you're any, if you're in WB at all, you obviously are welcome to come down. And then anyone else that's reached out, like for the most. most part, everyone's, you know, can't just have anyone or everyone, but we've had a lot of people come at least one time and just, it's not for everybody. Sometimes it is a little, I mean, it's hot in there. There's a couple industrial fans, but otherwise it's a sauna. It's a sauna. Dawkins comes there and

brings about four or five shirts and sweats through all of them on purpose. He treats it as a cardio workout and it's working. When we came in here, you were playing something. What were you playing? What video going. NBA 2K24. Is that your game? Yeah, yeah. Right now I'm in the, I'm in the grinding part of it. You got to grind and get the VC and unlock the badges. It's kind of the boring part of the game right now. You must have just got this game. Yeah, I got it a couple weeks ago. It just came out. So you're like, you know, that's the game you're dialed into. Yeah. What was before this game came out, where were you playing? Uh, 2K23. I bet I can guess what the next game will be. But I play, like, at night, I play a lot of games with my friends. Like, I'll play, like, Among Us just because it's like, you just meant it's easy. And, like, FIFA, last of us. I play a lot of games, but I get dialed in and won. Right now, my friends, everybody's playing 2K24.

So that's what I'm NBA 2K24 is what I'm, like, locked in on at the moment. I stumbled across that throwback photo from WrestleMania 27 when I met you for the very first time. Oh, wow. You blew my mind. I thought we met in Orlando, but we met at WrestleMania. 27 in Atlanta. We really met and, like, knew who each other were five years ago. But WrestleMania 27 in Atlanta, we found, I mean, I wasn't really doing a ton of interviews

at that time. We found out where the talent hotel was. We're like, let's just go get a drink at that bar. Yeah. And all of you guys were in the lobby. So I got a photo with you. I got a photo with Natty, a bunch of people. I wonder, do you remember what night that was?

Was that like the first night? I think it was like the Friday night. Because it's really funny. I think I met him as a kid. kid, but I met X, like as a, you know, as a WV superstar. I met Xbox there. I got a photo with Xbox that night. That is so funny. And then Stone Cold came down to the bar. Okay, yep, just for like one beer. Yep. And he got mob. I remember. He had like his own security. It was like, guys, like he just wants to drink a beer. Like, give him some space. But the thing about that

photo with you is, your hair is, that's incredible. The front piece. And at that point, I remember WrestleMania 27 at that point I'm using like Natty had one of those I guess it's a flat iron Believe it or not I don't really know But I would use that to make my hair straight up But I remember on a European tour right after WrestleMania I went to do it in a like a

Like one whole side like the half broke off So I had to cut the other side to it matched It was crazy Your hair, chunk of hair broke off Yeah that little front piece from the from the flat iron every day What would you call that haircut? A lot of people would call it the Charlie Brown. I don't know.

The Tyson. I mean, it really is the Tyson kid. Here's the truth. A lot of people have asked me about it by barber always will joke because like in the barbershop a few weeks ago, they were pulling up old pictures of it. And my barber's like, he kind of shakes his head because he was not my barber at that time. So like whenever he gets tagged in it, he's like, it's not me.

I wasn't the one doing that. I said, no, I was doing it myself. I needed something. I needed something to identify me from everybody else. My promos got better, but at that time I knew my promos weren't going to be it. I was smaller than most of the guys, heightwise and stature. So I just, I needed a little something to stick out. And I remember like maybe two weeks in being on the main roster, we were in Cincinnati.

And I ran into this woman and her son. And then she's like, hey, he's a huge fan. And then I look, he has the exact same haircut. She's like, do you recognize the haircut? And I was like, I sure do. And that happened before when I was resting in England too. So I always, I felt like I needed something to like. So I had that for like the first, I had it for a long time from like 2005, probably to 2011.

That's a long time. So what makes you decide like, all right, it's back to a normal haircut? I was like, okay. I was not really doing much. I was on like, NX. when it was on the main roster but not on TV, it was just on the website

and on wrestling on superstars and NXT basically. And I was like, I need something different. I was like, I'm sick of like this little haircuts run its course. Going to the movie theater

looking like this is run its course. Just wear a lot of hats. I was like, all right, let me, I remember asking Johnny. I said, do you mind if I shave my,

I didn't want to, I didn't want to like be locked into one. I said, do you mind if I, shave my hair or grow it out. I kind of left it open. And he was like, yeah, no problem. And then- Everyone does a Johnny Ace. I love it. Yeah. And I, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's awesome. I wish I had a voice that was like that that was so identifiable. Everyone knows who it is. That's true. Yeah. No one does macho man's voice as an insult. You know what I be?

You're absolutely right. And so, then I started shaving it. And I remember a few weeks in, Johnny's like, thought you said you were going to grow it out. And I was like, oh, I think he liked that part better. Okay. So I grew it out a little bit. And now you've got normal hair. Yeah, now I'm normal hair. And you know what's funny?

I wonder, I'm sure they wouldn't bother me too much, but how much would they, how much would like they really enjoy that look as a producer? You're going to bring it back? No. I know you've got to wear a suit when you go in there. So I don't know if the suit and the hair. Yeah, me, that's a balance. I'm talking about.

That's the juxtaposition there. Yeah. Like graves, with your tattoos. That's true. Suits, you know, it's... Yeah. You're looking jacked, by the way. Trying to.

I just... Natty's funny. She always gets mad to me. I'm always buying gimmicks. But right now, I recently bought, you know, training in the garage in Florida is a sauna, but I actually bought, like, a little, like,

one-man sauna. I saw it. It's awesome. Why don't you buy a wooden sauna? I... Natty gets mad and she, tells me that there's nowhere to put it. So I got that one off Amazon

for like $200 thinking if it's garbage, at least you know, I'm not bankrupt. What even eats it for $200? You plug it in and there's a little steamer in there. Oh, okay. And then it gets,

it's like 110 degrees in there. Okay. That's, you mean inside the sauna? Inside. It's got to be warmer than that. Because a normal, like a sauna if you went to the gym, like 170, 180. So maybe.

but maybe just my little, I have like a little thermometer in there. I was trying to see how hot it is. It's a bit of a sauna and a steam room because the steam's coming out. It's a little bit of air boat. Okay. But I noticed the difference of my body

in the last two weeks that I've had it. Oh, that's great. Like, I love the sauna. I love it. And I missed it. It's one thing I miss about public gyms. I've been to a public gym since the pandemic. Yeah, I work out in hotel gyms now on the road.

I don't picture myself ever in a public gym ever again. You've got such a great setup here. I love this gym. I love the show. And the mural and I think he did a phenomenal job. Phenomenal. So there's murals of Brett Owen, you, and Anvil, right? Are you missing anyone?

Brett Owen, Davy. But Davey. Yep. And the me, that was, I didn't ask for that. That was Natty's edition. I didn't. Natty needs to be in there. Yeah, I didn't put myself on the wall.

That wasn't my thing. That was Natty. I wasn't doing that. I would have put Pilms. man on. He's the fifth member. Yeah, that's true. I don't know if Natty's told you this, but like, obviously she's going to go to the Hall of Fame one day, right?

Yeah. And she said that she'd love you to induct her one day. I've never even thought about that. Well, she's like, you know, I think that that would be one of them. Maybe it's Brett. Maybe it's Stephanie. But, I mean, think of them on the list. You're number one. And then it was like Oh, got it, got it. Way after. Because think

about it. And especially the way she explained it. you've been there the whole time. You've been part of her wrestling journey, her wrestling story since before day one, actually. Yeah, yeah. I trained her from the beginning, from the very, very beginning. That's where, like,

I'm very proud, obviously, of Natty's career. Having the most matches of any woman in WWB history, and she just keeps adding on to that, you know, that's like a Cal Ripkin thing. You can't, you can't manufacture that. Yeah. You have to show up. You have to show up.

And you have to, you know, by the, whatever, the star, whatever, but to not be injured in any sport. You know, that's why Cal Ripkin's record is. It's hard to play a sport, you know, all in baseball, 162 games, you know, basketball, 82 games, hockey, 80. It's hard to do that. In wrestling, in Dividea v. It's 52 weeks a year. Yeah, no off-season.

There's no off-season night. You know, we would do WrestleMania, which. would be our Super Bowl. The next day is raw. So, like, we do the Super Bowl, and then very next day is a regular season game. And then generally the week after that, then we'd go to Europe.

So it's like, then we're in Europe for two weeks as a talent. Like, you just, you do the Super Bowl. Imagine doing the Super Bowl. And then, like, the very next week is a game again. And it's off you go. And I get it. It's only in our world. And there's a reason for it.

It's interesting when you look at it compared to anything else. It just is a different. animal altogether. So these accolades that Natty has is it's going to be it's I say nearly impossible to beat, but I use the Dr. Tom quote of what's impossible, what's what's possible has been done. What's impossible will be done. So again, never say never, but I don't know, I don't, I don't know how anyone's going to get close to touching these numbers that he has. what would you say it's been the biggest change you've seen since you stopped wrestling to the product that we have now that's a great question um there's definitely there's definitely been a lot of change um

even if you start with with the producers there there is a change in producers over the last four years uh royal rumble 2019 the raw the raw after they've been brought in a lot of producers. Kurt Angle, Abyss. That's when Helms started as a producer. Devari, Sanjay. I'm Lance Storm. I'm missing a few, but they're, I mean, they brought in like eight or something,

like eight brand new producers. And Jason Jordan started around that time, a little before that. So I think, um, the producer game got younger. there's a younger mindset in there. Again, that doesn't mean it's going to be right. It doesn't mean it's going to be wrong. It just means it's going to be a little different. And I think a lot of changes in terms of,

obviously, especially at a time when Vince stepped down and Triple H took over, it became, you could see the differences on the show week to week because I think, again, same kind of mindset. It's just a young, mindset. And so again, I'm not saying it's all going to be right and it's definitely not all going to be wrong. It's just going to be different and just got to ride it out and kind of see where it goes. But certain things like the storytelling like this Roman Raines bloodline stuff has been going on for

three years. And for me personally, some others may think whatever, but for me personally, I'm as into it as I've ever been. Yeah. So yeah, and you see like the judgment day. Yeah. Gunther just beat hungry. So I think. there seems to be a lot more long-term stuff happening. Definitely. And the thing with the bloodline storyline is just when you think, like, I'm not that interested anymore. Yep. Yep. Right back in. It's so true. It's so true. Three years in, it's crazy. But you're right. The long-term storytelling hadn't been done. Not at this level. Not and not in so many different things. Yeah. And like really,

long-term storytelling hadn't been done in maybe decades. Like for stories like that that are lasting this long. Yeah. Like, think about even, like, in this last year, like, how far the judgment they have come. The bloodline continues to be very strong. Bianca broke some record for longest reigning, like, raw champion for 400 days or something. And then Gunther, like I said, just beat Hunkunkunk, man. So to your point is, like, those are four, like, big key points of, like, that involves

long-term thinking and storytelling to get there. You can't just, you know, you can't just wake up tomorrow and say, hey, you know what, tomorrow will say that this is a 400 day rain. And you're like, well, they only won it last week. You're like, yeah, but storytelling. I'll just say 400 now. Time laps. That's not all this works.

This is in real time. All of our stuff is in real time. Have you been keeping tabs on what your buddy Claudio's been doing? Yep, a little bit here and there. He and I, we just spoke on the phone for about an hour and a half last week. He had a drive. he was driving from like he was driving in Pennsylvania so he's driving to Philly for a flight or something so yeah we spoke for a while I feel like when you guys were doing stuff together like both there was always like

these guys are the workhorses and these guys are like underappreciated and I feel like now he's starting to be appreciated yeah man I'm I'm proud of him he he never stops this guy he always wants to get here's the crazy thing he's already so good he's so good yet he is he's so good yet he is he's on this permanent quest to keep getting better. He's not, he's so funny. Like after a match, he won't be like, yeah, that was amazing. He, if it's great, he will accept it, but he'll be like, I could do this better and do that better. He's just, he's a perfectionist in a good way, not in a, not in a way that's going to make him, you know, toxic or negative.

It's not that. He just is very funny because just like you said, like he's, he has been underappreciated for a very long time. And it feels like now he's not. Now he is, now he's being appreciated in the way he should be. Yeah. Speaking of being appreciated, I appreciate you. Hell yeah. My pleasure.

It's good to be able to catch up with you. Yeah. This is your third time on the show. Yeah. Hey, I don't want to be a stranger. I like it. No, I like it too. I don't think I was doing this before.

I end with the same question every single time about gratitude. What are three things in your life you're grateful for right now? That is a great question. I'm very grateful. It's funny because it can be frustrating, but I am insanely grateful for wrestling, for the wrestling business. It's given me everything in my life.

Everything, every single thing I have, everything I've accomplished, everything I've been able to help out other family members and stuff. It's all through wrestling, every single thing, no matter how frustrated I get with wrestling or how much I might curse it on a random Monday. It's true.

truth is I love wrestling. I love wrestling like nothing else and I'm very grateful for it. I mean, the obvious is being grateful for my health and, you know, it's something that I do my best and I'm not perfect by any means, but I do my best not to take it for granted, like the fact that I'm able to move my neck even as much as I can and that I'm not in pain. Like, I'm very grateful that honestly I wake up every day. There are bad days once in a while where my neck will be stiff and my traps will be tight or whatever when I get up. But for the most part, I wake up pain free and I wrestled almost exactly 20 years. I started in July, 1995, and my last match is June 2015.

It's very close to exactly 20 years at a very high-paced, high-impact style for pretty much the duration of that career from the beginning to the end. So I'm grateful that I'm pretty much pain-free. And I honestly, after the injury, like, by the way, was the worst case

scenario with your injury that you couldn't move your limbs or was it that you would die? Worst case was death. Worst case was death. Dude.

I was getting, the nurse was the one who finally, like, said that to me. I was getting a little bit antsy because they were, and this is a totally

different subject, but they were waiting on an airlift. They were working on an airlift. And we were in Texas and they were bringing me back to, Tampa and they would inject me with like blood thinners and do all the stuff and come check my vitals. I wasn't on any painkillers or anything while I was there. I just was like uncomfortable. I was in a collar and I was just in a pain but not not enough that I needed a painkiller or anything.

I'm just sitting there. And after the second day of maybe we're going to get out of here, but then we don't. I was, I was started to get a little agitated and I said, man, I just want to go home. And then the nurse came in. She said, sorry, I don't think you understand. stand like your C2 which is the the ligament that holds a C2 in places what ruptured all my injury the C2 controls your breathing she said sir I only laugh because of how crazy it is but she was like when you landed you should have you should have suffocated to death on impact wow and I was like oh and then she said she said 99% 99% of people that survived this are quadriplegic.

She said somehow you didn't suffocate to death. Somehow you're not a quadriplegic. Please understand we're trying to help you. I wasn't being belligerent. I just was starting to get a little bit. And then that brought everything right back to reality. And I was like, you know what? Did you guys switch this bed while we were talking?

Because this bed just got so comfortable. And this TV I was complaining about it's perfect. It's perfect. Yeah. So I'm very grateful for my health. And my third one, I mean, I'm grateful, grateful for my, for my family, for the life that I have for Natty. You know, I'm very grateful that I have Natty in my life. Because without Natty, none of this happens.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't have achieved any of this. I would have, I can be, I can be fiery, but only because she allows me to. Otherwise, I'll turn into a little wallflower. So, so, yeah, I'm very grateful for Natty. It's so good to see your brother. Chris, there's always great seeing you. Yeah, I appreciate you. Hell yeah.

I always see your clips all the time. I'll be scrolling Instagram and I'll always stop and watch your clips all the time. Yeah, and I'm not just saying that because you're sitting here. I swear I'll stop and watch your clips all the time. I see you with Masters. I see you with with everybody, man, RVD. I see, I just, yeah, it's always a collection of who's who. I actually did, I was scrolling through and I saw you talking with,

talking with Nick about Mr. Perfect and Brett Hart. So that's so funny. I really saw that scroll in the other day. Wow. And now we just made a bunch of clips right here. Hell yeah. Thanks, man. Chris, thank you very much.

I appreciate you. I know you've just listened to this podcast here, but when you have a second, go check out the interview on YouTube. Either this one or the one with Italia, just to see how cool the room was that we were in. They had a library in their house. This two-story library with this beautiful brick wall and like a spiral staircase and you get a glimpse of it during the this interview because that's where we shot this. So I would just encourage you to go check that out. And if you haven't subscribed to Chris Van Fleet, that's the channel on YouTube or the CVV Clips channel on YouTube, please, it would, it would mean a lot to me. We're closing it on 400,000

subscribers on the CVV Clips channel, also closing it on 400,000 subscribers on the main channel. So between the two of those 800,000 subscribers, I appreciate you. It's so cool. It's amazing to be able to travel around the world having conversations like this with T.J. Wilson, just conversations with people who are very passionate about what they do. And I appreciate you for being with us on these. And we're just getting started. This is episode number 531. I can't wait for episode number 1,000, which at this rate, I think, is like four years away. But man, I'm excited for it. I hope you enjoyed this conversation. And if you did, please share this with someone. who you know is going to love it. And snap a screenshot so we can share it out as well. He's at

T.J. Wilson. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and here's a quote that seems so fitting for this whole conversation here. It's from Jim Rohn. He says, happiness is not by chance, but by choice. So my friend, I encourage you to choose happiness today no matter what's going on in your life. And I know, I know it's not always easy to choose happiness. But just remember, it just doesn't happen. Happiness just doesn't fall into your lap. It is a choice. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to

complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.