Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Why Jonathan Coachman Would Never Go Back To WWE, The Rock's Promos, Heel Commentary, MJF

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Jonathan Coachman (@thecoachrules) is a broadcaster and commentator known for his time in WWE and also ESPN's SportsCenter, the PGA Tour and CBS Sports. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Aliso Viejo, CA to talk about his stints in WWE as a backstage interviewer, commentator and on-air personality, turning heel, his hilarious promos with The Rock, being trained to wrestle by Chris Benoit, working with John Cena, why he is so impressed by MJF, his current job hosting "The Early Edge" podcast on CBS Sports, his advice for aspiring broadcasters, why he would never work for WWE again and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: The past has no power over the present moment. - Eckhart Tolle Sponsors: ZBIOTICS: Get 15% off with the code CVV and have a better morning after you drink at http://zbiotics.com/cvv MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag FITBOD: Get 25% off when you use the code INSIGHT at http://fitbod.me/INSIGHT GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 15% For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are go. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Ville. Here we go. Welcome back to another one on Insight. I'm CBV. Chris Van Vleet, thanks for being with us.

And thank you for making Insight, one of the top wrestling podcasts on the planet. I've been saying in the world, but on the planet, just feels like it, I don't know, it sounds so much better today. So I appreciate you for being here.

And if by, by chance, you are one of the 75% of people who listen to the show but haven't hit follow yet, could I ask for a favor? Could I ask you to please hit that follow button wherever you're listening? It helps the show so much more than I could possibly explain in this quick intro, but basically the bigger the show gets, the bigger the guests get. So I appreciate you. And we've got the coach in the house today. And the thing I love about him is the the energy that he brings to every situation that he's in, whether it's this interview, sports center, doing commentary, backstage interviewing, whatever it happens to be, he always

brings 110%. And speaking of backstage interviewing, what a different time it was that when he was in WWE as a backstage interviewer, he was also weaved into somebody like the major storylines. That is not the case anymore. And I think it just speaks to such a different era that he was in WWE at that time. It's also funny that when you leave WWE, how you kind of disappear for a lot of wrestling fans.

And they don't see the successes that you have outside of wrestling because they're focused on wrestling. That's the thing that they're into. But man, the coach has been crushing it. I mean, you might know that he left for ESPN. He was on SportsCenter for a

long time, but he's not there anymore. He's now doing commentary for the PGA tour. He is a sports betting podcast with CBS Sports called The Early Edge. You can go check that out when this episode's done. You also heard him doing commentary alongside Todd Grisham for the last Logan Paul fight against Dylan Danis. Also, KSI Tommy Fury was on that card. So how cool is it that two former WWE commentators, Todd Grisham, Jonathan Coachman, calling the Logan Paul fight against Dylan Danis? And if you watch the fight, maybe you you didn't even realize that it was them or maybe you saw highlights. Maybe you didn't even realize

that it was their voices. Oh my gosh. Wow, those are the voices from my WWE childhood. How cool is that? We get into a ton of stuff here, but I just, a huge congrats to coach on everything that he has going on. And it's just so cool to see how he makes all of those moving parts work. Please share this episode with someone who you know is going to love it and snap a screenshot. tag us so we can share it out when you tag us on social media. He's at The Coach Rules. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and this is a great conversation. I hope you enjoy it. Here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, the coach, Jonathan Coachman. Making it happen in person. My friend is so good to see you. I cannot believe that we're making this happen for a second time. And it's funny because when I think

of great shows and great interviews, you know, oh, thank you. No, truly, this is, is one of them and now in this whole 2023 the way content is done, you're right at the front of the line. So it's an honor and we get to sit here at my beautiful club and chop it up for a little bit. So let's go. That's very kind of you to say we are at the

Alyssa Vio country club. Yeah. W.W.E. must have paid you well. If you were a member here, my goodness. It's a very nice place. But this is really, truly all about my son. So many things have changed since my WWE days. And, you know, I now have a 15-year-old daughter. I have a 13-year-old son who's a competitive golfer.

Wow. So we had to join this place for his young budding golf career. What's his name? JJ. So we're going to be seeing JJ Coachman, tearing it up on the PGA tour in like five, eight years? It's his goals. And it's his goal to be on the PGA tour. And since I work for the PGA tour, the kind of, the cool thing is, is that they have a lot

of different things that you can do, internships, scholarships. So even if he's not on the PGA tour, he can still work in the world of golf. He loves it. He's such a good little player. And then for any dads out there, our relationship has grown so much because of this golf course. So I thought it would be cool to be here today. Thank you for having me here. Your son must be quite the golfer if he's playing here all the time.

He is. So what's his handicap? Well, juniors really don't have a handicap. Okay. So, but he shoots in the 70s every single day. In the 70s. And this is a Jack Nicholas course. And he plays in tournaments now.

And so he routinely will shoot between 75 and 80. And he's only played for two and a half year. That's incredible. Yeah. It's a lot of fun to watch it. So golf's a big part of your life. It is now, yeah. I think there's a lot of people, you know, a lot of wrestling fans that like when you leave wrestling, like, well, I guess he just fell off the face of the planet. No, you're more successful than ever right now.

It's funny because I find social media funny. And I tell anybody who asks me, you can't believe almost anything on social media. I won't say everything, but almost anything. Because I have people between me, oh, where have you been? You've done nothing with your career. Oh, I mean, your career stopped in two. 2008. Did it really? I mean, 10 years doing Sports Center and now at CBS Sports, I work for the PGA Tour. I do all the betting content for the PFL, the only MMA league that has a regular

season of playoffs and a championship night coming up in November. So the thing that most wrestling fans don't realize is in their minds, they think everybody aspires to be in the WWE, aspires to be in pro wrestling. I never did. I stumbled into it. I backed into it. I was lucky to even get into when I'm 23 years old. But my dream was always sports. And part of the reason I left ESPN in 2017 is I wanted to do more golf. And I knew that after 20-some years of doing things my way, it's time for me to start helping. And what I mean by that is there needs to be diversity in everything.

And in the world of golf especially, when you have Tiger Woods, who's a black man, as your most popular golfer of all time for the last 25 years, but yet, That's not represented on television or in golf in general. So that's what I wanted to do. And now I'm a big part of what the PGA tour does. And I just love being in the world of golf. We need to talk about the fact that you haven't aged a single minute in the last 15 years since we, you know, since we saw you regularly in WWE. It's funny because recently I posted a picture of myself today.

And somebody had sent me a picture from 2007. Yeah. I posted right next to each other. And people thought 2007 was today and that today's picture was 2007. I've been very, very lucky that my skin is holding up, that my, you know, I feel great physically. I feel better than ever. My spirits are up. I'm super positive.

And I'm just enjoying life right now. You also have this energy and this charisma that is so infectious, not just with us talking here, but like with every single person you've interacted with here at the club. Where does that come from? I love people for one. And I think that's always been kind of the big misconception about me because a lot of times I'll use the coach character professionally. And as you know, now you almost have to be on 24-7. And so there's a lot of people that think that the guy that they saw from 1999 to 2008, that that's really me.

Well, like the Rock always likes to say, that's you turned up 10 notches. But at my core, because I'm adopted. You know, my parents, my dad was United Methodist pastor. He had a heart transplant five years ago. And when you go through all of that and you're raised that way, in Aitly, you're taught to be kind, which is what we all should be doing. And so my mother never watched one second of me in the WWA. When I left and went to the ESPN, I remember the first phone call. And she was like, oh, I can watch you now.

She hated pro wrestling. And so that was my upbringing. And then my life the last five years has been really good. It's been up and down because of COVID. But because of my dad's heart transplant, I've realized that you literally never know, A, when it's going to end, B, when you're going to get a second chance, see how it's going to affect everybody around you.

So you never know what other people are going through. So just like what you've seen here at the club with all the different people, I try to be kind to everybody because it might help their day. and then they might help somebody else. And when I'm on the air every day, I end the show by saying, be kind to one another. And I really believe that.

The Rock always says it's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice. And ever since he said that, I've never forgotten because it's such a true thing of like, yeah, it's nice to be important, but it's really important to be nice to everybody. I'll never forget the first day I met him. August 24th, 1999,

which just happens to be Vince McMahon's birthday as well. And we were in Kansas City and we were still kind of figuring out, you know, if I was going to come, I'd already done the interview. And I remember standing there. And you can imagine you're in the early 20s. And this was when the rock was really taken off. The WWE was really taken off. And I remember standing there at Kemper Arena in Kansas City, which had a lot of things

happened over the years, obviously. And watching him walk in and thinking, this is the coolest human being I've ever seen in my life. And how he interacted with the security guards, with people in catering and things like that. And then getting to work so closely with him for the next two or three years, watching how he treats people, even to this day, is amazing to me. And he also, he brings it up all the time. He never forgets $7 in his pocket coming out of college, never had that opportunity.

And that's what drove him. I feel like now I've been given the opportunity in my career to do more. And I always think about that because he never stops. and he never stops, but people love working with him. Even when he gets in a spat, he figures out a way how to make it positive. You know what I mean? Whether it's Vin Diesel, whatever it is. And I've said this many times.

Nobody has taught me more about performing, interacting with people at a macro level than him. Wow. And I think that you mentioned this in our last interview, but the fact that he let you say your name during that segment, and then he turned it into the It Doesn't Matter, that's so good. I think back now, I'm kind of in that reflective point of my life now because I know for a fact that my wrestling career is over. There is nothing that could make me go back and do that. So now you get into a reflective state. Nothing.

Nothing. When people say that in wrestling, then they end up showing up a few years later. Yeah, but it's usually people that their lives are wrestling. You know what I mean? That's what they aspire to be. That's not who I aspire to be. I got lucky. And then there were things that happened in the last five years that make me not want to go back.

You know, I was 100% loyal to that company and to Vince. So when things happen, sometimes you got to draw a line in the sand and say, I can't be treated that way and still go back and be loyal to that company. It's not like they need me anyway. They're not crying over spilled milk, but I like to think I treat people a certain way and I want to be treated that way. So, yeah, I would never go back. So I reflect now. And when I think about the cool things that people have done for me when I was in the WWE, whether it's fans, wrestlers, whatever, that might still be the coolest thing. And it was my very first night on the air.

I'd already been there for a few months. But the first time for him to do that was still such a cool thing. And I have people that will send it to me every now and then on Instagram or whatever, but it's completely unselfish. which a lot of people, I hate when people say, oh, the Rock was selfish back then. Everybody had to be selfish back then. People don't understand.

They look at what it is now. You hear it's all the time. The best time of wrestling was the attitude era was 2000 to 2004 because you had, imagine having 15 LeBron James and then your NBA finals or your Super Bowl is only two guys. And you got 15 guys that could be in that spot.

Well, that's what you aspire to be. You're talking about a million dollar bonus to be in the main event at WrestleMania. Would you be unselfish? Or I mean, would you be selfish? Yeah. 100% you would be. So when I hear that narrative about the rock was selfish back in the day, you would be too. Stone Cold was selfish.

Triple H was selfish. Undertaker was selfish. Sean Michaels was selfish. McFolly was selfish. They had to be because everybody fought to get in that spot. If more people and wrestlers fought today to get in that spot, I think we'd have better storylines. We'd have more competition. We'd have better promos. We'd have quicker whatever. I really believe that. So you think that wrestlers now should be adopting what we saw 20 plus years ago?

It's hard. It's hard to say, yes, they should because I know how it works. And sometimes when you run your mouth, you're too aggressive, you can be taken off TV. And if you're off TV, then it doesn't matter how good you are. You know, so you got to play the game. It's just back then guys were so confident in their characters, and they were so confident in what they were doing, and the crowd reaction was incredible. And to watch all the guys I just named, you could put any two of them interchangeably, and that'd be a great main event at a WrestleMania or a SummerSlam or whatever.

When you watch back that debut, it's amazing just the confidence you had, the swagger you had, because when I look back at my first show and wherever it was, whatever market I was in, you could tell I was a little bit nervous excited to be there but a little bit nervous you got this real swagger about you in that segment I've always had it you know and and I love to talk to colleges in high schools now whenever I have the opportunity because you have to be able no matter what it is

and pro wrestling is probably the hardest to let yourself go because you're always being judged whether it's by the fans and the fans are they loyal yes but wrestling fans man they can be brutal as far as what they expect from you. So I just said, screw it. And I said, this is who I'm going to be. I knew that I was a good speaker, talk, or whatever you want to call it.

And I said for years when I was there and since, if I speak to anybody, you have to be able to talk. You've got to show people, especially when you're doing Monday Night Raw or Smackdown or whatever. You cannot go out there and be timid. You can't go out there. This is pro wrestling.

This is a character. This is your acting and you're showing off. How do you do that without swagger? You know, I also knew that I didn't know I was ever going to get in the ring, but I knew that I had the ability to do anything that Vince asked me to do. And he ended up asking me to do everything. And I did it. I'm very proud of that.

But you have to let yourself go. You do, if you don't, you'll never get or reach your potential. So what do you think is the difference between Jonathan Coachman and the coach? Well, I told somebody this the other day. I haven't had a first name since I was two. So I don't even know Jonathan Coachman exists. Somebody yelled Jonathan, and I was in Target a few weeks ago. I didn't even turn until like, oh, they're talking to me.

I've always been the coach, you know. And a funny story happened on I was at ESPN, Seth Greenberg, who I respect a lot. You know, he coached Long Beach State, Virginia Tech. And I did halftime segments with him and Jay Williams. And I used to say, you know, he'd come back, Kansas, playing Oklahoma, let's say. And I'll send it to the studio. and a halftime report. And I'd come on and say,

all right, alongside Jay Williams, Seth Greenberg and the coach. And so Seth, it must have been boiling up inside of him because one night, he stops me as I'm doing, you know, I always say, don't ruin my flow.

Don't ruin my flow, right? So he ruins my flow. And he goes, hey, I, you know, and you know how you're starting a segment, there's certain things you've got to hit. Yeah. So he goes, oh, I can remember when I was the coach. I can remember when people respected me enough

to call me the coach. well unfortunately my swagger and overconfidence said i've got to say this so i said to him on tv when you can walk into toys or us and by your action figure then and only then will i call you the coach and the look on his face was like did he really say that to me a man with 300 plus division one basketball wins and that's what he's going to say To me? Yeah, I said that to him. So the difference between Jonathan Cochman is a really, really nice guy. I try to help whenever possible.

My boss is at CBS. Why do you do this? Why does everybody have to have a nickname? Why can't it just be Larry Hartstein or Matthew Snyder? Why can't it just be that? I said, how many mats are there in the world? How many Lairies are there in the world? How many Chris's are there in the world?

A lot. I said, a lot, right? Jonathan is a hard name to. say. It's three syllables. People that aren't on air, they don't think about flow. They don't think about things that are easy to say. Say in the coach. See how easy that is? Yeah. But you say Jonathan coach, that's five syllables. That's a lot. So when I come on the show every day and now I don't hear it anymore because we have such a successful brand, it's funny how that works, right? I say, hey, welcome into the early edge. I'm the coach. If I said, I'm Jonathan. It's like, it's like,

it's like, you know. Yeah. And so it's a, it's a mindset. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's for branding. And it's also the coach is this guy that can do anything. And that's also one of the things I'm most proud of. Wrestling fans tease me all the time. Oh, you've done nothing, as I said, but I literally have done everything. But in their minds, they only care about wrestling. Yeah. Right. Most wrestling fans don't watch sports. So when I left wrestling, in their minds, I just left. But I literally opened the door for eight to 10 people that have left WW. because I was the first one. There had never been anybody to go from WWE

to a major national platform network straight away. Yeah. It had never happened before. Yeah. And when I got there, I dealt with a lot of blowback from executives at ESPN because they didn't want the wrestling guy calling real sports. It didn't matter how good I was.

They didn't want the wrestling guy calling real sports. Wow. So that's when I was, I said, you know what? I'm going to be the coach all the time. They literally sit down on an email at one point. and said no more nicknames. And they put in there, you can't call CF, Chris Fowler, CF. Nobody's ever called Chris Fowler, CF, right?

And they said, Herbie can still be Herb Street, and Chris Berman can still be Boomer. But everybody else, and I was like, they wrote that just for me. Wow. And I'm going to double down. And so then I got into radio and I had a show, and I was the coach in every single step of the way, which has led me to 2023.

And now everything is flipped. And so now if you don't have a personality, if you don't have a nickname, if you don't have a brand, what are you? You're definitely not a Jonathan. Like you could be a Johnny, you could be a JC maybe. Yeah. You're not a Jonathan. Not at all. Except if you talk to my mother.

And that's it. That's it. But you certainly don't call me John either because my mom will light you up. But to me in sports and sports and entertainment, and I want whoever's watching this to understand this, that if you want to get into this, whether it is content creating, whether it's being a net. I mean, I'm talking at the highest level. I mean, I'm not talking about getting into local TV or whatever, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you want to get to the absolute highest level, you have got to do this.

You've got to create something that makes people remember you, that make people go, man, I know that guy. Because there's a million different things out there now, whether you're an influencer, which I think that's kind of is reaching the end of, I think companies are realizing, just because I pay that guy to do that thing, I'm not getting value out of that. And sports books are doing the same thing. They're realizing just because I'm paying a celebrity to do a commercial doesn't mean that somebody's going to bet with my company. You've got to be smarter.

You've got to think outside the box. And so if you're a kid, when I say kid 21, 22, and you want to do this business now, you can't just be a writer. You've got to be able to write, but that can't be it. You've got to be able to do everything. And that's who the coach is. The coach is the guy that does everything. And the coach is a trusted brand, and that's kind of what you're saying here. It's not just about, like, building up your personal brand.

It's about like you're now the betting guy. When you say something, when you put out, you know, I'm going to take this team over this team, or I'm going to take the over or the under. People trust you because you've been doing this for so long. Yeah. And trust is a big, big word. And that part, as much fun as we have and as much joking around as we do, and it's a lot. You have to take that part seriously.

Because this is real money we're talking about. This is people's hard-earned money. And then there's still the portion of the public. Like you're promoting something bad. Well, here's a dirty little secret, Chris Van Lee. All these people, they're doing it anyway, right? It became legal just a few years ago, but they were doing it anyway. And so we just try to have them do it more responsibly and make it fun because a lot of the old school guys are super serious.

You know, the hat on backwards, the sunglasses, and I'm talking to, you know, a little out on the street. We don't do that. We're transparent. We like to have a good time. We like to have fun. And when people come to watch our show, they're going to laugh. And they're also going to remember the names. And whether, I mean, just some of the names we have on our show is the sniper, the snake.

We have a guy named Buckets. Larry Harstein is a maestro. Why is he the maestro? Because he kind of runs everything at Sportsline, so he's the maestro. Right? We've got a guy named Alan Bell. He's our five tool player. Why?

Because he produces. He's an on-air talent. He can do everything. He's a five-tool player. It's a baseball reference. So everything makes sense. And I now have the creativity and the freedom and the staff and the crew. We call him the crew too.

And everything is branded. Everything I do is branded. And that I did learn from Vince. That feels like it's right out of Vince McMahon's playbook. Yeah. Do you still keep in touch with Vince? Not at all. So that, like you're saying you've closed the door and going back to WWA.

It won't ever happen. What specifically happened? So I went back in 2017. And I kind of instantly knew this is not really where I need to be, where I want to be. But it was a nice bridge between ESPN and what the next full-time thing was going to be. So in my personal life, I was moving to California. So I didn't really know what I was going to do next. And so I went back.

It was fun, but the people I worked with, on the shows, A, I don't know what it was, but didn't really want me to be there. So when I got switched to the pre-show, the pre-show, that was fun because that was just once a month I had to show up. And that was cool. But then I missed, and part of the reason, this is so Vince, when they called me and they said, hey, we'd love for you to come back. I said, I'm already doing golf. So I had five events already booked. And I said, I'm missing the shows that week. Oh, no problem, no problem, until it was a problem. And so I missed one show. in 10 years in my first run. I missed five shows in the first seven months of my second run.

But I think everybody would agree, and the schedule has changed now, they were running people into the ground. Nobody should be working 52 weeks a year. Nobody. They shouldn't be having new shows 52 weeks a year. Let's be honest. And everybody inside WWE says it, they just don't want to admit it. But no company should work that way.

But for me, what it was, I'll just be honest with you, Chris, is they came to me and they said, XFL 2020 and Vince needs somebody there that he trusts that can do it the right way. So I was flying from California to New York every week to do the pre-show because they hired a lot of people that never worked for him before. So I trust Vince implicitly. Like I've done so much for him, with him. Everybody knows that. And so you turn in invoices, right? Well, I didn't turn mine in right away because I'd worked for him for 20 years.

He had always paid me. Sure. Right. So, um, COVID happens. And I have a fairly large check. And I hold on to it for a couple of days. I go put it in the bank. It bounces. Wow. It bounces. And so I called or texted, um, a high executive there. And I got a response. Oh, that's a lot of money. I said, I agree. I agree. I said, can you just call Vince? Let's take care of this quietly. No big deal. Yeah. And, um, ghosted me. Wow. Absolutely ghosted me. And, you know, Vince has the amount of money in his back pocket. You know what I mean? And it really hit me hard. And it wasn't the money. It was the process. You know what I mean? That and I sat there. I'll never forget, Chris. I sat there one day and I'm sitting there going, man, they really bounced a check to me. Oh, I did get a second text. It was like, oh, that's another company. I don't think there's anything. we can do. So basically telling me people I'd worked with for 20 years, oh, that's the XFL, it's not the WWE, but the same guy owns the two, right? And he, I mean, everything was a crossover. So that, to me, was a complete slap in the fence. And, but some people there just don't care. And I'm not going to name names. It's not my style. But even to this day, and anybody that watches this interview will agree with me because it's true. There are certain people,

and they're usually the ones that get the biggest bonuses that do not care what happens below them. And I had literally done everything I had ever been asked to do. And this is how you're going to treat me. And literally, they didn't care. They did not care. And I even gave it months because they were going through. Remember, there was no shows.

The company's losing money. I felt for all of that. But then eight months later, when you start advertising biggest year we've ever had financially, making all this money, and then you can't make things right. Yeah. So again, that's why I've never really talked about it. I've mentioned it in a couple of interviews, but I can't, at this point in my life,

I can't work for people like that. Yeah. I cannot work for people who do not care about human beings to the point that in a very, in a spot where you really need it, because we all lost our jobs during COVID. and that's when you're going to decide to go, ah, let's just turn our back on a guy who's been loyal for 20 years. Like, to a point, the things that I've done for that company really bad, you know, would blow your mind, would blow your mind.

I was 100% loyal, but they were not loyal to me. And that's it. That's too bad to hear. Because you were the guy that you weren't just the backstage interviewer. You were wearing so many hats there. And, I mean, the fact that you mentioned that you had an action figure. Yeah. How many backstage interviewers had an action figure?

That's crazy. What's crazy is that my ego was so big at one point that I actually thought that people cared if I bought my own action figure. So I borrowed a credit card that had somebody else's name on it and bought 10 of my own action figure. And as I look back on that over the years, I was like, literally nobody cares. Nobody cares. Because I think we all would buy her own action figure.

Of course. And the way it's done just so people know, WWE doesn't make these action figures. It's a company and they license them. So the company is not in the big. business of giving you. Hey, Chris, here's 100, you know, because that would, that mean they would lose money. Yeah. So you kind of have to buy your own.

But I was happy to because when you're growing up, you think about really two things, being in a video game and an action figure. And I was able to not only get that, I was able to get my own entrance music, which I loved. It was so good. And those $17 checks that I still get every three months. Somehow somebody's still buying that album. I have no idea. but I get a check every three months for $17.

Your heel entrance music, it's a banger. Thank you. Ying Yang Twins. It's so good. How do you get Ying Twins to do your entrance name? Well, you got to remember, I was there at the hottest time. Yes. And so everybody was answering the phone.

I mean, you got to remember they're paying Kid Rock. Who knows how much money to borrow a song for The Undertaker for six months. And so then when the DVD comes out of the home video, they have to take that song out because they only bought it for six months. Yeah. That's how hot things were back then. So everybody wanted to be a part of what the WWE was doing. So it wasn't that hard to get them to do it. Man, are you watching a lot of wrestling now?

Zero. Zero. I keep up on social media, but I'm just so busy with sports. And at night it's do I watch the games or do I watch, well, I tell my son all the time that if you want to be great at what you do, then you have to be an absolute expert. and you've got to, and this is a saying that I live by, I work really, really hard when nobody's watching to make it look really, really easy when everybody's watching.

So I work my tail off when you're not watching. So then when I'm on a show and I'm on an interview, I'd be like, man, and it just pops off the top of my head and go, man, he knows everything. Well, I work at it too. Yeah. And so it's a combination of I'm doing sports, and I just don't care.

I literally do not care about wrestling anymore. And I feel bad because I still have a lot of friends. that I worked with there, and hopefully that it's still fun for them. But until they change the schedule and the travel and all that kind of stuff and the three-hour shows, got to remember back when I started, part of the competition that we talked about at the start of this interview, there's only a two-hour show. Yeah. So when they switch to three-hour shows, we all hated it.

But what can you do? It's Vince's call. Yeah. And the network sort of, yeah, yeah, give me another hour instead of, you know, running the voice or whatever for an hour. So when you add a third hour, now you're bringing the rock out twice. Now you're bringing Stone Cold out twice. To me, you get that one big pop. And so the formula was you bring them out, they talk at the start of the show, set up the main event, and then you see them at 1055.

That worked. But when you bring them out at 8 o'clock and now you're waiting three hours. And now you're having multiple segment matches. And it's just like everything changed to get more TV money. and to me, that changed the show. And still to this day, it should only be two hours. It certainly feels like the competition now from AEW is helping things out for everybody. Like rising tides lift all ships.

And I feel like over the last four years, AW has up the game for everybody. WWE is definitely showing up. Wrestling fans need to understand, especially new wrestling fans who, and I don't know how it got this way, Chris, but wrestling fans think they know everything. Like I know everything about everything. I invented the business of pro wrestling. And I tell them all the time, literally, you could not walk one day in our shoes.

You couldn't do it. And I remember years ago at WrestleMania, they used to set up a thing where we would call matches with fans. And I wish you could do that today. Anybody that wants to be a troll or a hater, guess what? You're going to sit down to that table and you're going to call that match. You know everything about everything?

Let's see. Let's see you call it when somebody's screaming in your ear. Let's see you call it when you're trying to weave storylines into a match and call the moves all at the the same time. Wrestling fans, I wish, could take a step back, just enjoy it for what it is because it is entertainment and quit trying to guess what's going to be on the show, quit reading the dirt sheets, quit reading all these things. Because, oh, by the way, all these dirt sheet writers, I've never seen one of them backstage, ever, ever. So how do they know all this stuff?

You know, and most of the time it's wrong, but people don't realize in wrestling media that if you throw something against the wall, most of the time people don't care because it's not real journalism, right? So when you do get a story right, that's when you're going to run with it. See, I was right. I called that right there. But most of the time, you're wrong. And I wish wrestling fans could realize that. Listen to people like me or people that have actually spent time not only in the business, but doing the business and living the business.

Not just somebody who is guessing at what's going to happen. It seems like the element of surprise is not there anymore in pro wrestling. And it's funny because if we're going to go see a Marvel movie and you're seeing in an opening night, and I'm not seeing it until Sunday. I'm going, Coach, don't tell me a thing. Don't tell me a thing. But if someone might possibly make a big return or a big appearance in wrestling,

we're scrolling through Twitter and trying to figure out, are they going to be there or not? A couple weeks ago, you remember when Rock came back at Colorado? And it was so funny to see the negativity surrounding Coach Prime in Colorado and all of that. But when you really step back

and you look at all of that, how can it be anything but negative? You had college game day, You also had the Fox show there as well. The Rock shows up to be the guest picker. And yet because they just ignored Smackdown, which happened to be in the same city, Rock comes out and the place absolutely loses their mind.

It made me think of years ago in San Diego. And I've told this story on your show with me and Eugene. And the Rock called the office and said, hey, I'm in L.A. You guys are going to me in San Diego. Let's do something. Well, one thing that Vince is avid about, And I'll never forget him threatening us in a meeting on one week where where Linda McMahon and Mick Foley were going to be a big surprise.

It leaked onto a dirt sheet. And he literally said, and I quote, you do not want to be in this room if I find out it's you. Wow. That is talking to the dirt sheets. Wow. And it literally ticked him off so badly because the art of the business, the reason that makes the business so beautiful at times is the surprise. So when I go back to San Diego and I'm like, man, the real. Rock wants to work with us. You know, after all these years, he's coming back to work with me and Eugene.

And when people watch that, it was supposed to be a 12-minute segment. We're practicing backstage because we snuck Rock in in a car with tinted windows. Nobody knew he was there. And, you know, it's a 5 o'clock start, so the sun's still, or 6 o'clock start, whatever. And so the fans were just kind of just barely getting to the show. It was a perfect scenario. But when I'm making fun of Eugene, and I said to Rock, when we were in the private room, I said, this feels longer than 12 minutes.

and if people go I can watch now, it's like 23 minutes. And I'll never forget, he looked at me and he goes, what have I always taught you? And I said a lot of things. And he says, I've always taught you that if it's great, and you know it's great, there's nothing they can say. And that's how the rock always lived. And it probably helped that Triple H had the crossover match that particular night too,

and they were bitter rivals at that point of their careers. But that's always stuck with me is that if it's great, and what you're doing is great and you know it's great. There's nothing they can say. And so we went out there and it was electric for 23 minutes. And it was one of the first times that I got to talk trash back to him. But as I watched that back, and I've watched it several times over the years, it has helped me in my sports career.

Wow. Every time somebody says to me, no, that can't work. I'm like, nope, it can work. I know it's going to be great. And I believe in that. And that's why what I'm doing now is such a success because I know what I'm doing is right and the people I'm working with it's right. Yeah, the Rock coming back on

Smackdown recently could have been a massive rating if they said the Rock's going to be here tomorrow night on Smackdown. Instead, they made it this huge surprise. It ended up being arguably one of the greatest Smackdowns maybe ever. And then the numbers on social media ended up

being huge, which is a huge... That's a number. That's the thing. It's the social media. What we realize at CBS in the early edge is social media is so important. And that's where a lot of ad dollars are at as well. They're hidden, but that's where you get them. And you take those, just like you do on your show so well, and you take little clips and you post them. That was the magic that night. Why do you think we're drinking F3 energy here right now? There you go. Delicious.

But they could have said the Rock's going to be here. Everybody would have tuned in, but all you'd be doing, because if the Rock was the last segment, all you'd be doing is going, when's the Rock going to show up? Once the Rock is show up? When's the Rock? It wouldn't even have been that quiet. Here's what used to happen back in the day. If people knew or there was a rumor of somebody, So I think that segment was what, L.A. Knight, I think, at Smackdown. It was Pat McAfee. Pat McAfee with L.A. Night, right? No, with Austin Theory.

Austin Theory. Okay, so Austin Theory. So if it would have been leaked, then fans would have been screaming while they're trying to do their business. Rocky. Rocky. Exactly. Exactly. And that's why you don't do it. Because Vince has always been about the show ahead of the ratings.

He's always believed, at least I think, because I was around him a lot, that the show will bring the ratings. And that night, it was the right thing to do on one-offs. It's not worth a one-off rating to ruin the reaction that you got in the building that night. Yeah. You know what I mean? And I think the other thing that maybe not everybody's clued in on is that was the first

show they did after the Endeavor deal. So like, you know, the Endeavor deal goes through. Then the Rock and John Cena on Smackdown a few days later looks pretty good for shareholders. Yeah, 100%. And that's the other thing you have to think about. And you got to remember when I started in the WW, they were just becoming a publicly traded company. In fact, I came like six months after,

so I didn't get any stock or anything like that. But things started changing then. I mean, the show was pretty risque back in the day. And then when you have to start answering to people that are investing in your company, that changes everything. Some would argue that that was the beginning of the non-riskay part of Monday Night Raw. Was when you have to answer to people who are saying, I hated that last night.

My young daughter or my young son can't watch. that. Well, you've got to answer for that now, right? And that was a big difference. That was my dad, by the way. There you go. There you go. We, you know, we lived in, grew up in Canada, in Toronto, so we had basements, you know, and my dad would come and stand in front of the TV and be like, you're not watching this. Yeah. Yeah. And look at me now. It's your life. It's your life. This episode is brought to you by Zbiotics. And I don't know about you, but I don't bounce back after drinking like I used to. You kind of have to make a choice. You either, have a great night or you have a great day the next day, but not both. That is until I found

Zbiotics. Zbiotics pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's actually this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next. day. Zbiotics, pre-alcohol probiotic, produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. So just remember to make Zbiotics pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow. So Thanksgiving is right around the corner, so make sure you stalk up on Zbiotics, free alcohol probiotic before you feast, and you'll be thankful that you did the next day.

Go to Zbiotics.com slash CBV to get 15% sent off your first order when you use the code CVV at checkout. And by the way, this is backed with a 100% money back guarantee. So if you're unsatisfied for whatever reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Just go to zbiotics.com slash CVV. Use that code CVV at checkout to get 15% off your first order. You texted me something before this interview and you said, I'm really impressed with what MJF's doing. Yeah.

You said he's playing chess while everybody else is playing checkers. Yeah. What do you mean by that? So there are very few people that in the history of the business have figured it out. And when I watched this kid a few years ago and he was just young and didn't even have a home and a home for wrestling, I mean, and I'm watching this arrogance. And I'm like, boy, how would that play in the WWE locker room? And not only did he not stop, he kept doubling down. And what did he have that everybody else doesn't have? He can talk better than anybody else.

So he knows, what do we just say? If you know it's great, they can't say anything. When he does little things like the other day I saw a video where he's reading the names and he said Edge and Tony Kahn and it's like, because you can't use the same name. He goes, Adam Copeland. He does that on purpose. he's so, that's what I'm saying he's playing chess. He knew he was supposed to say Adam Copeland.

But he knew that if he said that, then Tony's going to be off camera. And there's literally nothing Tony can do. I believe this to be true. Stone Cold Steve Austin made the most money for Vince over the years. But when you're talking about salary, how much guys make? Stone Cold Rock probably topped out between $5 and $10 million a year. And then they were the ones that really got that, what we call the downside guarantee as high as it's ever been.

Seena was up there too, meaning even if you get hurt, this is how much money you're going to make. Most fans don't realize that's how it works. So I think MJF, when he becomes a free agent, because how many guys have the guts? Think about this. How many guys have the guts a year or two before your contracts up to say publicly, don't even think about coming to me with some weak offer before my deals up? because I don't care what's on that piece of paper,

I'm going to be a free agent. Think about how many guys in the business today, and you would know a lot better than me, have the guts to say that, and then nobody crushes them. Yeah. Right? I haven't heard anybody go,

oh, whoa, he's putting his career in jeopardy. Is he really? I think he's going to be the highest paid superstar in the history of the business when he becomes a free agent. I feel like Tony Kahn is going to back up the Brinks truck. You have to. You have to.

He's losing too many guys right now. And when you have a guy like him who is right now arguably, arguably the number one superstar in the world, you could argue that. Obviously, everybody goes, well, look at the run that Roman Raines has had, of course. But I'm saying, if you were to have a draft today, who would be your number one pick? Yeah. Throw them all into the hat. He's definitely a contender. Contender.

Yeah. So if that's the case. And this is the other thing that makes me laugh when I see fans complaining on social media. I just saw Edge went over to EW and a woman named Jade. Jade Cargill. She looks like a superstar, right? And I'm reading all these really good reviews of her. And so they just switched.

And people, oh, I can't believe she would leave. I can't believe he would go there. I was there during the Monday Night Wars. I was there. There is nothing like competition. Can you imagine the NFL with two teams, right? This is the entertainment business. And in the entertainment business, whether you're in movies,

there's four or five studios that bid for a movie. Well, you don't think you make more money on that movie. If there's five bids, of course. So fans need to understand that the more legit big-time wrestling companies there are, that's good for everybody. Yeah. It's good for everybody. There's never been a better time for wrestling than right now

because all of our friends have places to work. All of our friends are getting paid way more than they would have been paid in 2015 because there's options. 100%. And the WWE probably would never admit to this, but any business would do this. If Chris Van Vleet was sitting in front of me and Chris wanted $500,000 a year and there's three companies sitting at the table that you're thinking about working for, obviously you have a better chance of getting that money. Sure.

Right. So the WWE knew we're the only game in town. So there was only a few guys that got market value. And that also speaks to how Vince does business. when Vince believes that you're worth something, he will pay you no questions asked. If he does not, we've seen what happens then too.

What do you think was the moment or the segment that really impressed Vince for you? Because you weren't just the guy in the background asking questions and holding a mic. I don't know if it was one moment, but because we had shows early on Wednesday morning, I had to fly back on the private plane every Tuesday night with him. And everybody was, oh, it must be so cool.

You're flying on a private jet with Vincent. It kind of sucks because the rule was, and I don't know what the rules are today, but you could only sleep with Vince sleeps. Well, he doesn't sleep on the plane. He drinks red wine. And so you're back there, you're somewhere over in Nebraska, and you're like, oh, my God, three more hours, and this is torture. And all your buddies are back partying after Smackdown, you know.

So I think what it was that triggered him, because I was such a good talker, I hosted all the press conferences. I hosted the first three tough enoughs. I was a part of the first three diva searches. So all the ancillary stuff, the shoulder programming, I was the host of it. So he got to see firsthand because he was always there for everything. I would always introduce him. And he saw how good I was at all the different scenarios that he put me in.

And then I was also big, meaning I'm six three and a half. I walk around between 240, 280 pounds, depending on the year, right? And so I was doing an interview, and it was a tag team interview that was going to end in a fight. Well, whoever I was interviewing, we have a little secret, and you spread your legs out and make the guy look and put them in front of you. And it makes the person look taller. Yeah. Well, the problem was that the cameraman widened out too quickly. And all of a sudden, I'm standing there with my legs completely.

And all of a sudden, the other tag team came in late, and it was just a bad segment all together. and Vince was furious because it kind of gave away a couple of our secrets. So he's like, you can't do interviews anymore. You're bigger than half the roster. You know what I mean? So we've got to figure this out. And so he came up to me in the gym at the WWE headquarters in Stanford, Connecticut. He goes, hey, we have an idea.

Would you want to be an in-ring performer? But before you say yes, you will have to get into the ring and you will have to train before shows every single day. and that's how I started doing house shows. Wow. I would go on the road Friday through Sunday, and I would either have a match because it wasn't on TV, or I would be the ring announcer, and at the end of the show,

it would allow a heel to win, because you never want the heel to win because the fans go home unhappy. So with me, the heel could win, and then the baby face would put me through a table, or they would beat me up, and that's how the show would end. And so I agreed to do that,

and so I could then train quietly, so to speak, And that's kind of the scenario that happened. So it wasn't one moment. Who trained you? Chris Binwa trained me. Wow. Yeah. How did he become the guy handpicked to train you?

I don't know exactly how it happened. We always got along very, very well. I know there's a lot of different reactions to the name, Chris Benoit over the years. But my experience with him, he was really good to me, you know, and he took the business very seriously, sometimes maybe too seriously. But he not only trained me on moves,

but he trained me on just being tough. The first 15 or 20 minutes of every session was shoot fighting, like MMA training. What? Yeah. Yeah. And I trained with Shane McMahon, too. So when we were back in Stanford, Shane would come down and train me, so I'd have somebody in the ring with me.

And then on the road, Chris would train me. And I'll never forget. I mean, he, and then I would get done with a match, and he would critique the match with me. And he was just, I don't know, I have mixed emotions when I talk about him. Sure. You know, so. Yeah, I just, I feel like up until that last weekend of his life, when you look at his entire in-ring career, one of the greatest of all time, with his technical ability.

But he's also an example that I used to use. Obviously, you don't want to use him as an example very often. But I used to tell young kids, because I ran this room on the road called the pre-tapes room, and they would come in and try out their character or whatever. And I tell kids all the time, I don't care how good you are in the ring. Chris Binwai never got to his potential because he couldn't talk. He was kind of an introvert. and he wasn't comfortable on the mic.

And he let his wrestling speak for him. So he was a great, I would never call him a mid-card guy because that would be disrespectful. But he was great at being like that seventh match on the card because you're going to get a really good match before the really big stars come out in match nine and match 10. So I used to use him as an example a lot because you have to be able to do everything.

But as far as in-ring, I would put him and Kurt Angle, you know, maybe one, two. And then when you look at the match that they had to go, well, they had many matches together, but I think it was the Royal Rumble, was that I think it was, one of the greatest matches in WWE history. No doubt.

So good. It's only been a few times where I've gone out onto the floor to watch something, and his comeback, um, at Madison Square Garden, along with Triple H's comeback,

and Madison Square Garden, it was different times, but, um, was amazing, absolutely amazing. When you think of the era that you were in WWE, you were there for some of the biggest moments ever. Do you recall what some of those moments were where you were either peeking through the curtain

or you had to be standing around the monitors because you knew something big was happening? There's several. Probably the biggest one was Rock Hogan and I'll never forget. I was there, by the way. Were you really? I'm from Toronto, so I was 18 years old as WrestleMania 18. So you remember it. And what I remember is we got to do the, we came up with a segment where

I was, you know, saying my prayers and eating my vitamins, and I called God G. And I remember Rock used to laugh at that when we were back to stage ago. I can't believe you're going to call God G. But we did that. We did that. And I walked down on the floor because I knew they'd been working the entire week in the hotel because they always set up a ring at the hotel. And I knew what the match was supposed to look like.

And people maybe to this day don't even realize that when they're talking trash for that 10 minutes, it was a full 10 minutes, maybe longer, that they were barking back and forth. Rock was changing the match because every superstar has to go in either as a heel or a baby face. And you fight a certain way as a heel or a baby face. As a baby face, I would never punch you in the face. As a heel, I'd punch you in the face all day. That's just one little detail. So you have to know how to fight that way.

So when you train the entire week one certain way, and all of a sudden the fans are telling you different. How many people are in the moment that are good enough and confident enough to change the match completely? Rock was. So that was one. Triple H's return at Madison Square Garden. I've never heard an arena louder than that. I get goosebumps to this day about that.

He came back so early, too, like no months. Right. Nobody thought he could possibly even be there. Correct. Like, maybe he could make an appearance, but to wrestle, get out of here. One of the most incredible feats that I ever saw as well, again, most people would never know this, is we used to go to Europe twice a year, April and November, 10 days, 10 different shows. and John Cena just became like the world champion. Well, Rick Flair got his hooks into him.

And he's like, if you're going to be the world champion, you got to act like a world champion, you got to pay for all the drinks, you're going to make him the most money on the, you know, and you get paid. And for a guy like Sina, he's going to make 30 to 50 grand a night as the main event. So you're talking 10 days,

he's going to make between $300,000 and $500,000. Yeah. And then we all would get paid six months later after it's setting an account, and that's how the foreign shows worked, right? So Sina, who never drank before, all of a sudden, he's drinking every single night. And he's paying for the hotel. And I'm watching it.

I'm like, we're all. And he just keeps paying and paying and paying. So we get to the ninth night. And I asked him, I said, John, I said, how much money have you spent on this trip? Well, I checked my account today and it was $35,000. Wow. And I said, $35,000? He goes, 35,000 pounds, which back then it was like two to one.

So it was like $70,000. So on the last night, it's Sunday night, we have Monday Night Raw the next night, drinking again at the bar. All of a sudden, Dean Malenko walks up, whispers something in his ear, and Cina takes the beer, sets it on the counter, walks to the elevator, disappears. And I said, Dean, what did you just say to him? He goes, well, we just got a call from Vince, and he's going 60 minutes tomorrow night with Sean Michaels in an Iron Man match.

So the next night, I'm waiting, because me and there was a time where me and John really tight. We traveled together, and I really enjoyed his company. And so I'm waiting because that's kind of what you did. Somebody has a special match or a special time. You want to be there. He comes out. You could smell the alcohol

coming out of his force. But to his credit, him and Sean Michaels, if people go back and watch it, had an absolute, just a magic match for 60 minutes and he had been drinking nonstop for nine days. The last interview I did with Rick Flair, Flair said,

that Vince pulled Sina aside and said, you can't hang with Rick Flair anymore. You can't. And he was also the first guy on the bus in the morning to go to the gym. So he would drink until 3 or 4 a.m. And he'd be on the bus first one to go to the gym. Wow. He was an absolute beast.

Cina was a beast in his prime. Like when he was there every single day, beast. There's two things that I think made you so incredibly successful in WWE. Number one was you were never afraid to make you, yourself the butt of the joke. Sure. So if it happened to be like you doing that divas challenge where you're doing the obstacle course and falling on your face, you do it. 100%. And if it's the rock making you do the Charleston, by the way, did he talk you through that? So a couple of things. I'm a big Barry Manilow fan. So the greatest part about wrestling is you try to take your real life

into the storylines if possible, right? So what is better than making fun of a black man for the whitest music that you could possibly listen to? And so that's how we came up with that. It was like, you look very, because the rock's a big country music fan and has never been, you know, so we thought it would be funny. And out of that, I actually got a call from Barry Manilow's touring manager or whatever, and they gave me two tickets to the Barry Mantle.

I swear, this is true story. True story. And I went and saw him at Radio City Music Hall in New York City, like three weeks after that particular segment. Were you doing the Charleston? No, I wasn't doing the Charleston. That's good. But yeah, yeah. But to your point, and this is what makes me laugh sometimes, but also it can be frustrating is that people on social media that I'll just give out. And most of the time I just do it because I know that there's 80% of the public just had nothing better to do than spend their time on social media. Sure. So it's more of an interaction thing. But wrestling fans, again, who think they're the smartest people in the room, oh, what do you know?

You were just the guy that always they made fun of. You were a joke. You were this. Can you imagine if you walked up to one of those people, most of the, you know, and said, listen, I'm going to give you an opportunity. You're going to be on TV with the rock. And this is what we're going to do.

How many of those people, A, would say no, or B, wouldn't call every person they know to say, guess what I get to do tonight. But yet they want to make. make fun of what I did. It's acting. That's what pro wrestling is. And you're playing a character. And so now 15 years later after I left, that's your take. That shows how little some people even know about the business, which is why you should watch and enjoy and not think that you're the know at all, because if you're making fun of me, I spent three years next to the greatest entertainer

perhaps of all time at the WWE. And I'm the butt of the joke. I don't think so. What did it look before those promos would start? Would he say, all right, team me up with this question, or I'm going to go here with this part? It was a process. So Brian Gerwitch, who now runs his company, they were as close as close could be. So they would work out the scenario.

Then they would bring me into it. And at first, obviously, I didn't have a say. And then after they started trusting me, I started to have a say because the stuff I did was fairly entertaining. People still talk about it today. So, but the first one, I didn't. But as we went along, and maybe my favorite one of all of the ones that we did was Smackdown was taped. But the Rock was one of maybe the only one that there was no question.

His promos were always going to be live, even though the show's tape. Because you have to have that crowd interaction. And he also had to do it at a place in the building where he could hear the crowd go millions and millions. And millions. Like all that had to be in real time. Yeah. So we were doing a, where he was going to grab the microphone for me, like this microphone, and there's this port. Yeah.

So he grabs it like this, pulls it out of my hand, and like an idiot, I'm still holding this part of it. So the Rock's holding this. And so now Kevin Dunn, our producer, is screaming in my ear. Put it back together. Put it back together. Put it back together. So Rock doesn't even miss a beat. Doesn't even miss a beat.

He just goes, hmm. As only the Rock could do, it fits perfectly the first time. Three prongs, perfect. Then he goes, boom, boom, boom, boom, make sure it's working. Now, as the Rock was saying, right, he paused so he knew there'd be an edit point. So when I tell people next level thinking, next level performing, being the absolute very best, it's all in the details.

The Rock knew if he paused, made sure it was working, started again. That's a perfect edit point because he knew the show is. tape. See how it all trickles down? And people are, oh, I know everything. It's next level type of stuff that we did back then. The second thing that makes you so good at what you do is broadcasting is broadcasting. And you are easily the best storyteller that I know. I mean, it's been an example here for the last 56 minutes. It's just the great stories that you're telling here. But you're such a good storyteller. And even if you're only given 30 seconds on air to tell a story, you find a way to weave in all these little details and make the story so good. Details matter in entertainment. And everybody that works with me or for me at CBS now, I tell them all the time, figure out a way. I give him 45 seconds. They're like, oh, but it's a podcast. No, this is a TV show and this is where we're going. Don't think about where we are. Think about where we're going. And when you get on TV, you can't talk as long as you want. And on wrestling shows, you can't talk as long as you want. And you're

might only have, and I hear the Ms. talk about this all the time. I don't care if you give me 10 seconds, 15 seconds. I'm going to make you remember me. And so that's why nobody's ever written anything for me. Like I always put into my own voice, whether it was at W.W.E or Sports Center or whatever, because I know how I talk and how the coach talks. And I took that very, very seriously. And if you can't storytell, you can't make people feel something. Because in life, it's all about feeling something. How sad would it be to go through life? And I feel bad for people that are working jobs that they hate because I've never had a day of that. Even though I had that year that I told you, I didn't really feel comfortable going back.

I still loved it. I still, you know, it's all relative, you know, and I spent 10 years at ESPN doing Sports Center, doing radio, doing Mike and Mike, doing first take, loved every second of it. So how can I complain? But to be able to do all of that, to be able to have a radio show or have a podcast or learn how to speak in 30 or 45 second sound bites, it's a. It's a skill. I still practice to this day in the mirror.

And I tell people all the time, you want to be great? You want to be really good? Because so many people sit at home and go, oh, I wish I could be Chris Van Vleet. I wish I could be the coach. I wish I could do what they do. But yet they never do anything about it.

Storytelling is an art form. Learn how to do it. And details, details are everything doing it in real time. It's amazing to me how many people want to be a broadcast or especially now want to be a content creator. And don't take that video. camera that's in their pocket, take it out and just record themselves. Every day, 30 seconds a minute.

Just like getting comfortable of seeing yourself on camera and getting used to like, yeah, your eyebrow does that weird thing when you talk or like one side of your mouth goes up when you speak. Like, do it once a day for the next 30 days and you'll be a much better, more confident presenter in 30 days from now. Pretend it's you're working out. Pretend you're in the gym. And when you're in the gym, are you going to get results in one day or is it going to be 30 days? No. But to me, this is the essence of this business. And the business has changed so much that if you can't storytell and you're not good on camera, guess what? The executives that are trying to figure out, because now there's never been less on-air jobs in the history of time than right now. There's never been, you know, I speak to college kids all the time. What do I do? I don't know where to go. I can't get that first gig. And I's like, I drove three hours with a car that probably shouldn't have made it to make 12. $12 an hour for my first TV job. I said, you've got to do whatever it takes.

I just talked to a kid the other day. And he was like, yeah, coach, I want to do it. But I live here in whatever state he was living in. And I don't want to move. And I looked at him, I said, then you don't want to be in this business. Yep. I said, you've got to be willing to do whatever it takes, including working on your craft. Yeah.

All the time. And I'll look at the camera for this one. If it was easy, everybody would do it. And I think that that's a big thing. Like, you talk about driving three hours for your first job? I drove 100 miles each way for my first internship, which was unpaid, and got my old high school job in the fish department of a pet store at the mall, scooping dead goldfish to pay for the gas for my internship.

And it's amazing to me how many people aren't willing to do that. Almost none are. And that's why I said, I'm lucky to still look as young as I am. But because of my talent that I know I have and that I've proven for years, all these kids that are coming out now that think, oh, I'm getting a check from YouTube because I was able to prank this person or whatever, they think they're an on-air talent. You're not an on-air talent. And on-their talent is able to stand in front of a camera and either host or have a panel or deliver, be able to toss to commercials or read a promo correctly, not just read it,

but read it correctly. If somebody's going to pay you to be a presenting sponsor, you need to make it worth their while. All of that stuff is now what you have to be willing to do and able to do if you want to be here in this business. I think the biggest thing about broadcasting is they can say to a broadcaster, you've got four minutes and you need to do this, this, this, this, and this. And you go, oh, yeah, no problem. Easy. I told somebody this the other day, my very first job, Cake TV, Channel 10 in Wichita, Kansas. And we used to work all day to do two and a half minutes. and we had these big three-quarter taste back in the day, and you're carrying them down.

And I think now, if somebody said to us, coach, you and Chris have to do four minutes, and you've got to hit these four topics, we wouldn't even blink an eye. We could do it and we move on down the road. Absolutely. And that shows the evolution of the talent, also learning how to do it,

learning how to speak. You don't even, I tell kids all the time, make sure when the red lights on that you're on. Yeah. Well, you and I are at a point. It doesn't matter if the red lights on or the red lights off. We're going to be ready to go. Yes.

And I think that another big thing, especially with, like, interviews or just doing things, especially in person now, is the second you walk in the door, the second you see that person, you've got to bring the energy. You can't sit here and wait until, okay, okay, we're live now. All right, let's, let's, let's hype it up now. You've got to bring that energy because that person's going to meet your energy. That is such a great point. And I don't know if it's frustration or if it's just maybe they're not trained, but

I had a couple of professors that were very angry with me because I'm honest with these kids. And I tell them all the time that you have to be ready because at no point, do you know somebody's going to come into the room and be somebody that can help you or somebody that can, uh, wants to hire you. Yeah. You never know. Nobody's going to come to your front door and not going to say, here's a million dollars. You got to leave that front door and go out into the world and you've got to earn that money,

whatever that money is. Yeah. But you've got to be prepared to do it. And most kids today are not. And there's a lot of kids. I have a guy that works with me. He's amazing. His name's C and Ajad.

We call him the counselor of cash. That's his nickname. Love the nickname. So good. Right? Why do you think we call him the counselor of cash? Do you tell me? Well, he was a practicing attorney for 12 years that got into sports fantasy and then sports

betting and he realized, I'm miserable over here. Man, I love it over here. So how do I make that transition? because financially when you have two kids and a wife and all that kind of stuff, and that's what I love now is to try to get people to get into this business that maybe we're trying something else and they want to go do this now, not just kids coming out of college. So when we're talking about getting everything in and a limited amount of time,

we've all heard the stories of what it's like to be on WWB commentary. What are you actually hearing? What is Vince actually saying slash yelling in your ear? A lot, a lot. The more he trusts you, the more he's going to lay out. But in the height of when I was doing it, because they moved me around. I did Sunday Night Heed, then I did Monday Night Raw, and obviously, J.R. is the greatest. And he would still scream at J.R.

And I got so good because Vince would say something. and if you didn't say it, because he wanted you to say it then, not wait for JR to get done, not wait for King to get done, I want you to say it now. So after a while, I was like, I don't care if J.R. and King are mad at me. I don't want to get screamed out by Vince anymore. So he'd be, he'd say something and I was so good at regurgitating it that I would say it within a second, probably. I could talk as he was talking in my ear.

That's how good we got together. But there'd be sometimes if you said, if you didn't tell the story the way he wanted you to tell the story because this business is all about stories. Of course. We talked about. And you just ruined his character. You just killed him. You just ruined it.

Like, that's a kind of stuff he'd scream at you if you told a story the wrong way, which is why it was so paramount. And he's screaming that as you're trying to do commentary. Correct. Correct. The show's going on. It's at a big spot in the match. And he's screaming at you.

And you're trying to get back on track. And it was paramount to meet with the agents and the super stars who were wrestling, you'd go around during the day and meet with all of them because you had to know the story they were telling. And the really great ones can have a match and tell a great story. If you're just watching, you're like, man, this is amazing. But the commentary adds to it. Were there certain things that you weren't allowed to say? Because now they say there's a lot of words you're not allowed to say. 100%. And they would, not only did we have a list of them. You kind of knew. Do you remember some of them? I don't. I don't. I have like a big block. I have, I,

And I wish I was kidding, but I do. I have a big block from, I don't even know why, but it was, there was just. There's a big one now of like, you can't say fans. It's the WWE universe. Well, that's all. That goes back to the branding. Sure. It makes, you know, and when we switched over from.

They don't say hospitals. It's a local medical facility. There were some things that were a little extreme. But you have to understand there was always a reason and a method for the madness. So for us, it was more about not saying things about their character. Gotcha. As opposed to particular words that you couldn't say. Were there certain things that really helped with elevating the storytelling when you were in a match?

Like, I remember my friend got one tiny little piece of feedback from JR and he said, make every near fall matter. And now he's a much better commentator as a result of that. But like, no matter what you're talking about, no matter what the story is, oh, oh, one, two, oh, he kicked out. It would always be that. you have to call every kickout. If you don't, then, especially for the really big matches where the kickouts were at two and a half

or two and three quarters or whatever, you had to make sure that it felt like it could end at any point. And that's why you see some matches, like with Brock Leicester perhaps, that are really, really quick. And the reason they do some of those is, for that reason,

a match could end quickly. And it has, because if it never had, then you wouldn't have any examples, right? So that was the thing, is call every single, and it doesn't matter if you're interrupting your guys, that's the play-by-play guy's job. It's called every false finish and make it matter.

Yeah. What do you think is the best piece of advice that you tell to young broadcasters? Or someone that's looking to get into the business? A couple of things. The first one, be willing to go anywhere to do anything. This business is so hard now to get into, whether it's the WWE, whether it's regular sports, whatever it is. Because now with technology and all these different things, networks are trying to say,

how many human beings do we need to pull this off? So I tell them, I don't care where it is. That's why I don't encourage people to lock themselves down when they're 22 years old. I never, if you want to get married, whatever, you want to, I don't care. But if you want to do this business, you can't do that. Because if you have children, you can't go make $12,000 a year in Yuma, Arizona to learn. I tell kids, go find an honor your job. I don't care where it is.

Don't sign a long-term contract. Okay, don't. But the bottom mind is, if you go to a small place, they're not going to have the money to sue you if you leave anyway. But you need tape. You need tape. So start before, go to a school that has a really good broadcasting program that has cameras, that has tapes, and make your tape.

Because we have a young lady, your name's McKinsey Brooks. And she's amazing. She just got out of school. She's really good on camera. And we can, you know, kind of train her as she's working for us. So she's fantastic, but not everybody's like her. Not everybody's ready to do it at that level. So you've got to go wherever.

I don't care where it is. If you're not willing to do that, you can't work in this business. I'll add one more on there. I was so grateful to be able to make mistakes when I worked in Peterborough, Ontario, Canada on Checks TV. Like, I was so grateful to be able to be terrible when very few people were watching. Correct. And that's the end me and me too. I mean, in Wichita, Kansas is a bigger market, market 62.

Yeah, that's pretty big. But you can still make some mistakes and try out the personality stuff, which in local TV nobody allows or used to. But now they do, now they do. Did you ever get in trouble with Vince? Like real trouble? I don't know. Like, you know. Yeah, there's one story that still kind of rubs me the wrong way to this day.

And back between, you know, after 9-11, unfortunately, obviously there was a war. And we started going to Afghanistan in the Middle East or Iraq. And it was supposed to be a volunteer trip. So I went. I actually wrestled Rick Flair in Afghanistan one particular trip. And again, I was right next to Vince. It was three groups of six. And I'm like, man, I never said no.

I never say no. I'm the ultimate team player. So I get married and my wife is pregnant with our first child. And again, they said, hey, if you don't feel comfortable going, there's no pressure whatsoever. Yeah. Do you believe that? So they didn't believe it.

I told them from the jump. I never said I was going. I said, nope. I show up the day and they take your bags because it has to go through screening at the Pentagon or whatever. And they're like, where's your bag? And I was like, I told you, we thought you were kidding. I said, at what point did you ever think I was kidding? Did I ever laugh?

Did I ever not look you and I say, I'm not going? There's like, you've never told us no before. Because my wife's pregnant. Thank you. And she didn't feel comfortable. Yeah. So they had to scramble at the last minute. You got to get passports.

It's a whole big thing. I think it was actually Chris Masters that took my spot on that particular trip, if I remember correctly. But I should have known. I should have known that it wasn't just going to end there. So fast forward a week. And at that time, I was out doing commentary. And the show ends and the Undertaker ends the show.

And he's getting ready to walk up the ramp. And the referee comes over. And the music's playing. He's like, go hit on take her from. the back. Go hit taker. I'm like, why would I do that? That makes no sense. They're like, Vince is talent. Oh, there it is. So he was angry that I told him no and that I went against, you know, God forbid, you say no to anybody, especially Vince. And so, like the team player that I am, I go over, I attack the Undertaker, he turns around, apologizes to me and says, I'm sorry,

I don't want to do it, throws me in for cheese to beat me up. And as he gets done, Batista's music hits. Down comes Batista. He does the same thing. He gives me his three finishes. I was so irate. You know that a few times in life where you get so angry, you start to cry? Like it's just your emotions are just overwhelming.

That was one of those moments. And I didn't sell. I mean, I just took like five finishes from the two of the biggest stars of all time. Yeah. I got up and walked to the back, like just in like completely disrespecting them. But I wasn't thinking about that at the time. I was thinking, how can I get beat up when for all these years I was completely loyal. But, yeah, that was one of the times where I was so angry because I didn't deserve it.

I didn't deserve it. Do you think Vince is going to keep doing this? He says he wants to do it until he's 120. We always used to joke on the road that he'll die on the road because you got to understand he's a very unique individual. And when you build something and it's your baby, you don't want to see it in. And I always knew he was going to come back or he'd figure out a way for it to come back because this is his legacy and this is what he wants. Now, do I think that maybe he'll regret a few things when it's all said and done?

I think so. I feel like he has no regrets. I don't know. I think he should. And what I mean by that is we all want to have friends around us. We all want to have our families around us. And we all want to do good. And as we get a little bit older, you should get a little bit wiser.

And you should not be the idiots we were, you know, 20 years ago. And we all did dumb things, including myself. But even if you're the boss and this is something I used to say. say about events that I find very sad is I pride myself on having friends that I can call and watch the game. Hey, big game Saturday night. You want to watch it? Yeah. He doesn't have anybody like that. He's never had anybody like that. He and is he a football fan? Probably not. But I'm just saying, you understand my point. Just to have somebody come over and break bread, have a drink, watch a game, do anything. It was always based off of people like Paterson was his best friend.

We all loved Pat. But are you? watching the game with Pat? You know what I mean? So everything that is Vince's life is all pro wrestling. And I found that a little bit sad. Despite all the money, despite all the money, I found that a little bit sad. So you're saying he's the guy who only has work friends. Correct.

We all know somebody like that. 100%. And what's sad is that as he's gotten older, I think he's 77 now. So I met him, like he said, on his 54th birthday. So I've known Vince for almost 25 years. And I do believe that if you put a lie to text,

on him when it's all said and done that he wishes maybe he would have made more friends or not because he's very awkward to be around you can't have a conversation like a normal conversation because you're so intimidated whatever the word is and a lot of people just it's always that figure hey pal you know is that instead like a real conversation so him and I had a lot of real conversations

but I was around him a lot and got through that initial that initial wall does he like do normal person things like Is he pizza? I have no idea because he never hung out with anybody. And I know that he had all during the day, just so you know, he would have, and it's one of my favorite people in the world, Harvey Whippleman, one of the famous managers. He's got Rock his first car. His personal job was to make sure Vince was taken care of to this day.

And so he would bring in the food. And then if superstars like the Rock want a specific chicken or something, he would buy it for them too. And you'd see Bruno walking, Bruno Lowers, and they're walking through with all these steaks and potatoes. So Vince wouldn't even eat with the rest of us. It would all be in his office

on the road every single week. So he could keep working, I'm sure. 100%. Yeah. It's like he has no off switch. Correct. Wow. Correct.

Look, I feel like we could talk forever. I told you we would talk for an hour and here we got an hour 15, but I think we've got some time. Yeah, we got to still tear down and hang out and take a photo. You're the best. And I appreciate you being who you are.

are. Thank you. I appreciate you being the genuine person you are and the great storyteller that you are. I feel like you could tell each story for an hour. Like every single story could be a podcast in itself. I do believe this, Chris, that part of having these experiences, experiences is to be able to tell a good story because the one thing I want people to understand and remember, if I never do an interview like this again, because I don't do too many anymore, is that you only have one. life to live. And that is very cliche. But knowing that and knowing everything that I've been through in the WWE, whether it's losing friends to drug addictions, whether it's losing friends to brain situations, whether it's just tragedy, whatever it is, or the good things too, all of that

stuff happens and you never know when it's going to happen. So part of the reason I love telling these stories is, A, I've survived it. Yeah. B, I lived it then. C. we had 50 or 60 people at all always at one time. And I want people to understand, you can still do that. You can still enjoy your life. You can still go out and do whatever it is you want to do. But the one thing that I'll never do that I'm super proud of is I'll never say when I'm 75 years old, I wish I would have.

I wish I would have tried being a TV broadcaster. I wish I would have tried doing that. I wish I would have tried doing this. Because now when I walk into any building, any interview, any set of executives, I know I belong. And it's because of everything I've done before it. I hope people understand that, that instead of just sitting on the sidelines and either complaining or trolling or hating or whatever, get in the game, get in the game and stop worrying about that and start doing something that's fun. Because how many people do you know that are miserable because they're doing

jobs that they have to do to take care of their family members, not that they want to do? I've always done things that I want to do and I have to do. And that's a beautiful place to be. I love that. Especially now, because we're living in a time where you can monetize just about anything. You don't have to do a job that you hate. You can do the job you hate while doing the thing you love on the side. And then at some point, maybe the thing that you love flips and becomes the main thing. But my goodness, what a miserable life that would be.

I had somebody the other day. And this was so telling to me. He was probably 22, 23 years old. And he had a normal job. And he goes, I want to start this. And it was like a podcast or something. And I said, anybody can start it. Yep.

I said, but there's a good chance you won't finish it because it's so easy to just go, oh, nobody's listening, no, he's watching. I said, do it to practice on camera, even if you don't get one person listening. And he was like, but, and I can see him thinking about it. And he's like, but I'd have to work like 10, 12 hours a day. I already have a normal job. And I was like, you don't want it. You don't want it.

I said, you don't, I said, you like the idea of it. But you don't truly want it. There's nobody that can go and start a podcast. or start a show and make $100,000 the first year. It doesn't happen. Are you willing to put into work? And most aren't. 90% of podcasts stop after seven episodes.

And then 90% of the ones that continue stop after seven more. Really? Because think about it. It's difficult. And you know this. If you're doing interviews, you've got to book the guest, research for the guests, sit down here and actually do it. Then you've got to produce it, upload it, promote it. There's so many steps.

And if you don't love every single one of them, you're going to go, eh, it's not really worth it this week. 100%. And you can't be that guy. And that's the problem with, I don't even want to call them millennials, because there's a lot of adults that are trying to change. Yeah. And they're always looking at the views and the money.

Yeah. Oh, I'm not going to do it. Really? Yeah. You know, and that's the message that I try to get out. Because now I'm in a position where I know that I'm going to be good, right? But now it's time to help. Yeah.

Because now when you start to be in charge of things, there's so many executives that just didn't do a good job when I was coming up and through. And I took notes on all of them. And now I want to be an executive someplace and help and help these young people and also be honest with them. We're not honest with anybody anymore. We're saying, oh, that was really good when it wasn't. Or that was really bad when it's really good, right? We need people to truly help. And that's what I'm trying to do now.

My biggest fear when I was in my senior year of college, I woke up one day, and I was having the best time in college, right? I woke up one day and it hit me. Oh my God, when we graduate, we got to go to work for, you know, the next 40 or 50 years of our life. My biggest fear was going to a job that I didn't enjoy going to. 100%. I didn't want to be one of those people who hated Sunday because, oh, my God, I got to wake up for work on Monday morning. That was what drove me. Not that I wanted to like my job or love my job.

Just didn't want to hate my job. 100%. 100% and that that little part still drives me there's always in this business there's always that little part of paranoia or your confidence slips just a little bit or you feel like oh i'm not doing things the right way you just got to get through it but you got to work at it yeah damn it do you got to work and i know there's a lot of people that are listening to this going well it must be nice for you it's like it must be nice to put in the work like that's the thing i have three jobs now I have three jobs now.

And it would be easy for me just to do my day job at CBS. But I love golf that much. So when I go do a PGA tour event now and I do eight to ten a year, do you think I don't do my day job when I'm there? No, no, no. I still do my show. I just have equipment now, just like you do with your show, that we can travel. Are you willing to travel? Are you willing to do it when you're doing another job?

Are you willing to do it? When I do PFL, that's a night time. So I can still do PGA tour, my show before that. Get off, go back to my room and still do PFL. So I did three shows in one day once. Are you willing to do that? And it comes back to the very start of this conversation. You do the hard stuff in private so then in public it looks easy.

I tell my son all the time, let somebody else tell your story. I said, you don't have to tell that person you just shot at 75. Let somebody else tell it. Because then that's how people go, man, that guy's really, really good. And you don't have to say anything. That's how good you want to be. What's that phrase, and I'm going to just, you know, kind of put my own spin on it. But it's something like, when you think you're good, you tell other people.

When you are good, other people tell you. 100%. And I've been so blessed, as have you, to work with unbelievably talented people. And just to be in a comfort zone that are just, you just get it. You just get it. And I'm envious of people that make it look easy, which is why I started doing it myself. When you go to a concert, it's Beyonce or Taylor Swift or Kenny Chet or whoever. And you're like, man, they make it look really, really easy.

And you know it's not. And they're operating on just a completely different level. 100%. And you are too, my friend. Well, I appreciate it. And this has been fun. I love telling these stories and looking back on the years that I've had, but also know that we still have a lot of work to do.

You're one of my favorite guests to have on here. I could have you on every few months. Maybe we will. I mean, we don't live far from me, John. Well, there's still a lot of stories I've never told. So if you keep having me on, we'll keep diving deeper. So the question I end every conversation with is around gratitude because it's such a big, important part of my life.

It's center focus of my life. What are three things in your life that you're grateful for? Wow. Well, first and foremost, my family's amazing. I have great kids that are just the best. I told you my dad had a heart transplant. So try to imagine you're, you're talking about grateful. You're planning a trip.

Your whole family's going home. You're getting ready to put him in hospice. This is a true story. And I'll end on this. And he had never qualified for the transplant list ever. He's 72 years old, right? So my mom calls me and my mom's one of those people who you got to have 30 minutes when you pick up the phone, right?

So I pick up, Mom, I'm really busy. No, no, no, I need to talk to you. She goes, we're going to try one more time to get dad on the, but if when you come back on Friday, this is what it's going to look like, and it wasn't good. And they qualified somehow. Wow. But there were 800 people on the list, right? 800. So that's Tuesday. Thursday, we get a call. Dad just got a heart. What, on day three? My dad has, for 45 years, his life is all about service, gratitude. And that's all he's ever done. It's never been about himself ever. He adopted three children because my mom was told she couldn't have kids. And then they get pregnant with my little sister. And I believe

It's because they give three of us a life that he never would have had. He gets a heart on day three because somehow he matches with pretty much any blood type, any heart, anything like that. He jumps the list and in four days he got a new heart. So Christmas of 2020, imagine that Christmas we had because my dad was going from probably passing away to living. So you talk about Grateful, that's been my world the last four years. So when somebody complains about, oh, you know, this happened on your show. I don't care. I don't care. I want to have fun. I want to enjoy myself. And my dad has taught me help as many people as you can in the space that you can. Don't try to get outside of your space. So I know in my space, I try to help anybody that comes and ask for it. I try to do whatever I can. Yeah. So family. That's number one. Family's number one. I'm very grateful for the career that I've had because without the career, you can't take care of your family. So I love people, go, oh, the money doesn't matter. But you've got to earn a living, right?

And I'm grateful that I'm in a good headspace. After all the years in the WWE, so many guys aren't. And something that's not talked about a lot. But I'm glad that I came through, I mean, a full 10 years I was there, you know, the first time. Yeah. And I'm very proud of the fact that I never called in sick. I only miss one Monday in 10 years. So I made it 519 out of 520.

And the only one I missed was on my honeymoon. But imagine the dedication to that. And I want other people to understand that dedication. So I'm grateful that I've been healthy enough to do that. I think the last thing is I'm really grateful for the people that I've started to put around me. Because before, I didn't have the best people around me. I was all about fun, all about, you know, doing really stupid things. And now I realize if I put the right people around me, they can lift me up.

I can lift them up. And there's nothing that we can't do. So I think those would be the three things that right now I'm most grateful for. You lift everybody up. whose life that you touch, whether it's a conversation like this in person, whether someone's just listening to this or watching this. I love that. You are the brightest light, and I loved it.

I'm able to share a little bit of that light today. Well, thank you. And for all the wrestling fans who hate me, we're completely blowing that reputation up right now today because they all think I'm this jerk, and that's fine. Let them think that. But at the core, it's just not true. I think they hate the character.

Yeah, that's my point. But sometimes they can't separate it, but that's okay. that's okay we're going to keep loving everybody and and in this day and age when everything morphs together and now i think the last thing that i'm most proud of yeah is that before i left the wwee it was such a hard thing to once you decided to go there to get back into regular sports and that's what a lot of people have to think about yeah is if i go do wrestling can i still go to esPN or fox or wherever and we knocked that door in and i was the first one a full-time ESPN contract and now so many others have done it.

So when you can pave the way on a road that didn't even have a road before, you got to take the wins when you can get them. And I'm super proud of that. My friend, so good to see you. Thank you, buddy. Thank you. Awesome. What a guy.

I love that infectious energy. It just, I mean, we were planning on talking for like, I don't know, 45 minutes, an hour, here we are an hour and a half in. And we could have gone for another several hours. So I think that means part three is in the works at some point. And since him and I live half an hour from each other, 25 minutes from each other, feel like a part three is just inevitable at this point. And just great to see the coach continuing to crush it in everything that he does.

Now that this episode is almost done, go check out the early edge. That's his sports betting podcast as part of CBS Sports. And snap a screenshot. Let us know that you were listening to this. tag us so we can share it out as well. He's at the coach rules. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And here's a quote from Eckertolli to end this on. I hope that this one really resonates with you too. The past has no power over the present moment. The past has no power over the present moment. I'm sure you've heard this in other ways. The past is in the past. It's true, but the past has no power over the present moment. Be present

and live in this moment. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got T.J. Wilson coming up. We'll see you then. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of Sports smack. Ticket banjo, but get up in here.

The Jim Rome show podcast. What should be? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.