Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Why Lita Left WWE & Why She's Back

Episode Date: March 29, 2022

Amy Dumas (@machetegirl), better known as Lita, is a professional wrestler and WWE Hall of Famer. She joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about returning to WWE at the Royal Rumble, her match with Becky Lynch at Elimination Chamber, how she got back to being herself again after being Lita for so many years, what her breakout moment was in her career, what she learned from traveling with Edge and Matt Hardy, her WWE debut in 2000 with Light Heavyweight Champion Essa Rios, what her first tattoo was, being inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame and much more! For more information about CVV and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are gathered. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blaine! Greetings and salutations, my friends. Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet, and what an episode we have today. What a chat with the legend herself, Amy Dumas, who of course you'll know better as WWE Hall of Famer Lita. And it's such a really interesting conversation about discovering yourself.

because she spent so much of her adult life as Lita that when she left WWE, it took her some time to figure out who Amy was again. We also talk about why she went back to WWE. And by the way, with that name Lita, she told me that she didn't know that was going to be her wrestling name on WWE until five days after she debuted when she saw the match on TV. So many good stories like that during this. And if it's your first episode here, please take it. a second right now to click subscribe or follow wherever you're listening to this and take a screenshot

let us know that you're on this journey with us tag us amy is at machete girl on instagram and i ask her why her username is machete girl you can find me at the very boring and an original username at chris fan fleet and our fan of the week is ohio h s hoops high school hoops i'm guessing shout out oh h they say smooth as butter Chris is an unbelievable host. He has an uncanny ability to create great dialogue with his guests. It's like listening to a couple of buddies talking at a dinner table. It's always an easy listen and he does a great job of getting others to tell their stories.

Chris is humble and grateful and it's evident in all of his conversations. Keep on crushing it. Well, thank you so much for that. The other part, if you're not aware, O.H. I.O. It's the chant in Ohio. Big love. Nothing but love for Ohio. I spent five years there in Cleveland.

Love it. Love it so much. And thank you so much. Oh, H-I-O-H-S-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-H-P for taking the time to leave this review. I read one on every single episode. It's my way to say, thank you. Thanks for being with us. And if you want to plug something, put it in your review.

I'll read it out here for free, of course. If you want a different kind of shout-out, I am on cameo. I don't talk about this often. I don't know why, but I'm on cameo. I've been on there for years. So if you want a shout-out on there, look me up on Cameo. Spotify has ratings, by the way.

So if you're on Spotify right now, it'd be awesome if you could go in there and click those five stars. Okay. Enough of me. Let's get to the real star here. Please welcome an amazing conversation with Amy Dumas,

aka Lita. I want to ask you, is that a llama behind you? Yeah. There's a llama and then some sloths, my brother. Oh, this is, and Pac-Man above you. Yeah.

Look at this wonderful decor. Yeah, my brother got that. My brother got me the lawnman. I loved it. And then they, from the same artist, got me a sloth, the sloths another year. But what's hanging over your shoulder here? This? Yeah.

This is just like an air plant and a piece of driftwood. Oh, it's a driftwood. Okay. Wow. Starfish on the beach. Oh. Look how cute it is. That is so cute.

Look at that little guy. So NorCal. Thank you so much for hanging out with us. Yeah, I'm happy to. I've seen your stuff. And I was like, no, I'd like to talk to you. I just want something to talk about first. Well, now there's a lot to talk about, right?

Thoughts. Yeah, I had to do it up before I met you. Did you think that you would be back in WWA? Nope. Nope. So how did this all come together? So, I mean, Rumble's fun, right? Undeniable watching it, being in it.

And so I did the first one. And, you know, it was monumental. It's historic. I had to be part of it. But I was asked 24 hours in advance. And I had not been training. And I had to take a red eye, spend all day in medical getting cleared. And the first time I touched a ring since the last time, whenever you guys saw me touch a

ring was the last time I had touched a ring. So I was like nervous in all the wrong ways. And it, I was still glad that I did it. There was only going to be one first rumble. I was still happy to see all of the women. And I ultimately had a good time in my experience. But I was like, I, when they called me this year, I was like, yeah, I want to redo. You know, so I had proper heads up and I had been training. And so that was my motivation was just like, it's fun. I want to see my girlfriends. And this time I want to like feel good nervous going into it. And I did. And I was happy. But like that was that was all. That was all. And like, and that wasn't all. Well, so are you training just for fun? You were just in the ring just because?

Well, so they gave me like six weeks heads up. Before that, were you in the ring before that? No. No one goes to fun. Natty. Natty goes in the ring for fun. everyone else is trading for something. But in the meantime, so my pandemic thing is I started doing Twitch, and I met a bunch of people through there and some Bay Area people. And so there is a drag queen Poyou Del Mar that has been in the wrestling scene here, and it turns out as a neighbor, only lives a couple miles from me.

So we connected, and then they connected me with Dark Sheik, and she came up with hood slam. Hood slams like a Bay Area wrestling for mystics, right? And like with no boundaries on it. Sometimes it's karaoke. Sometimes it's a party. You know. And so I was able to,

I had a crew and I was able to go train with them for the Rumble. So in that six weeks, not only was I intensifying my gym training, I was in the ring, but also in the ring having fun. And going, yeah, like it's fun to be in here. And also, I remember this stuff. So I went into the Rumble feeling pretty good. You also look like, like, you look like you had wrestled like yesterday. Like,

you looked so, it was like running a bike, I guess. It really did feel like that, you know, and I didn't, didn't know how it looked. I was like, this feels fine, you know, and I, I don't watch my stuff back. So I only just saw like clips from, Twitter and stuff. And I was like, okay, it looks in the realm of what I did. So I'll leave it at that. But this was supposed to just be the one-off

Rumble appearance and that was that? Yeah, and I was happy for it. I was like, great. Stop back and still friends. And then as I was coming out of guerrilla position, literally like, WW24 was following me around doing episode.

They were there just as I came out through the curtain. And there's Johnny Yates. He was like, what do you think about wrestling Becky? And I was like, yeah, you know we've been trying to, like, that had been, we've been like fantasy booking that for kind of years. And I think she was more serious than I was. I was like, yeah, this is like a fun thing that we talk about sometimes. And then, yeah, so I felt like there was, like, there was no way I could have said no to that.

Even though it was three weeks from the moment he asked me, I would have liked three months. from the moment he asked me, you know, like, gearing up from like, yeah, it's fun to see my old girlfriends to like, oh, a title match, singles match. On the other side of the planet. Two totally different, like, training. But, you know, like, you just take opportunities when they're there. The media, like, thing I thought about was like, you know, like people that I, like, friends that I have that wanted kids are like, well, first we're going to save this much money, then we're

going to do this. then we're going to buy that house, and then we're going to have children. And, like, a year later, they're pregnant. You know, and they're not like, no, no, no, I'm not going to take this up. This is what's happening now. And so it's like you just go with what's in front of you. But I would imagine, though, that you had a bunch of stuff that was already planned out, like in your quote-unquote regular life that you had to then put on hold for the match with Becky.

For sure, because, I mean, even just leading up to Rumble, like my regular schedule has been pretty flexible and Zoom oriented and, you know, just like a lot easier to work around than like, oh yeah, you're going to be schlepping across the country. And so it's like, yeah, it's not just TVs, but it's by the time I get there and back, like it felt pretty full time. But because it was so short, I really felt like I could just pull all of the good and let any of the delayed connecting flights or like, you know, wait, I'm in Omaha. I'm in a blizzard. This is not why I moved to California, you know, that type of stuff.

It's like, yep, it was like roll with it. If that was my life grinding, you know, for years, I'd be like, I cannot go to Omaha to get, like, no offense to Omaha. There's actually one of my favorite restaurants there. But, you know, it was just, I don't know, I just felt like novel. And just like, all right, we're doing this thing. And I felt. to when I decided I was going to be a wrestler, like almost saying it out loud, like, you know, forever.

People like, you know, are you in a band or why are they taking your picture? I'm just like, I don't know. I guess they like my jacket or so, you know, like I'm just kind of like downplaying it, downplaying it. And now I'm just like at the corner store like, you know, I'm going to wrestle a women's championship? It's like I'm the same as like when I was like, you know, I'm going to be a wrestler, right? I'm saying it out loud because for my benefit. So it's like I found myself doing that where somebody was like, oh, why are those cameras

there? You know, what WWE came to like follow me for training and WWE camera crew is used to us like downplaying every, you know, like nobody really wants to talk about it. And I was like, because I'm going to wrestle a big match in Saudi Arabia. You know, and it was like, who is this person talking? Because it was that. It was like say it out loud enough times. This is happening.

get used to like like let it sink in that it's happening you're also holding yourself accountable to it like because you're putting it out there yeah you have to live up to that standard that's a thing I've always done and I didn't think of it that way but like I'll keep things to myself but once I feel like I'm going to do something I tell everyone and it's to hold myself accountable so that when I see that person in three months they're like whatever happened to that thing and I'm like in fact it's right here you know like oh well you know I I was just talking a bunch of shit, you know. So now that you're back and you're feeling good,

like is WrestleMania on your radar? You know, I, it's not not on my radar because I just know how everything there, and nothing's changed, by the way, from when I left and when I got there, it was like, oh, things happened last minute. Plans are changing at all times. So, you know, I will be there if nothing less than to, watch it. But yeah, you know, I, and maybe it's like, I don't know, am I scouting? Am I looking at, like, different match possibilities and combinations? I just feel, you know, kind of more connected

to them than I did before. I mean, we've all talked about, like, kind of sometimes you have to go outside the bubble and be like, I can't, you know, I need to just do my own thing and not worry about what's going on over there. And, you know, I felt like that's what I was doing when these opportunities just fell in my lap. You know, I wasn't gunning for a spot. I wasn't booking, you know, things in my head or trying to, you know, come up with these match possibilities and they just fell in my lap. But it was, it was really inspiring, like just being able to sit down and talk with all of the

girls that are there and they're so excited because they know they're in the beginning of their career and just how many possibilities. possibilities there are now, you know, I feel really good and proud if I had my last match just now. Wow. But I also feel like, okay, that would pretty good. Do you feel like in a way you now have a chance to kind of rewrite the history of like your exit from WWW? Yeah, totally, totally, you know. I'd had these like one-off appearances since I left my.

active career, but nothing that I could, that was like meaningful enough that felt like, oh, that was the last thing or this is how people will remember me. It was just like, oh, like a fun thing with Heath Slater or the evolution, like, but it was just like this opener tag match and, you know, things like, you know, I'd had fun spots. Yeah. Retiring, but nothing that felt big, you know, but I'd already done the big. stuff. So it's not that I was looking for that, but this just felt very different. Yeah. When you went backstage, how many people came up to you and said, you're the reason I'm wrestling right now? You inspired me so much. Yeah. So, so many. And it was, it just kind of, it was like, it really felt

like poetry in the way that I was coming back with Becky, who has said that, you know, I inspired her on her path, but then all these other women that were saying the same thing. But because I was like not ever 100% confident, I felt pretty okay going into it. But their like compliments towards me wanting to talk to me, them saying, I'm so excited to see her match. Like this is going to be great. And like them, like they were inspired. me to have that match. And so I loved that, you know, and I loved telling them that. Like, you guys were like making me feel better walking out through the curtain each time and leading

up to this match. And like, thank you guys for doing that for me. You obviously broke a ton of barriers, right? But I'm so curious to know, what was the first one? What was the first one where you kind of went, oh, what I'm doing here feel special? I think it was, it gets replayed pretty often, but it was with me and the Hardee's versus Test and Albert and Trish. And it's like, I was just kicking those dudes asses. Like, I had no business doing, you know, like these like six, like six, five people, you know, and I'm like, hurrah, and running test and jumping to the outside on, on Albert. And just the, it felt like, wow, this excitement with a woman being physical hasn't happened before in WW.

I remember when you debuted with S.A. Rios. And it was like the idea that S.A. Rios did his moonsault. And then you did a moon salt. And I was like, what is going on here? As I was just telling the Tesson Albert story, I was like, actually the very first time we debuted, I did feel something special because I felt the crowd was, they're like, oh, cool, there's two new people debuting, and we just kind of had a fun dynamic between the two of us, and they were fine with that being the end of the match. They're like, cool, right, there's new people,

and they're like, wait, what? So I remember even feeling that very first reaction that I was like, I think we might have something special here. How long between that match happening, that debut match, and you getting the name Lita? Like, what was the time frame on that? Like five days or something like that. You can say five minutes.

Yeah, you're Lita go. No, after. Five days after. Because we were not supposed to debut. It was going to be Christian, who was going to take the light heavyweight title off of Gilbert. But then he was doing something with the brood and they kind of wanted to keep things separate. So they were like, I don't get these two kids out there. Like, you know, and so it was, you know, like four o'clock that afternoon.

They're like, tonight's the night you guys are starting. We had been doing dark matches every night. Like every week we were just flying to TV and doing dark matches getting ready. But I wasn't mimicking. I would just do a spot in his match or something like that. But it would be something bigger, but it wasn't the mimicking thing. And they told us that around 4 o'clock. And it was for heat, which taped on Monday, but didn't air until Sunday.

So they said, that's all we know. we'll figure everything out. We don't know your names. We don't know if you guys are like brother, sister, boyfriend, girlfriend. We don't know any of that stuff. Just go out there and we'll figure it out. And so, yeah, they, I found my name out on Sunday Night Heat live. I think someone from the office called me and said,

I think your name is Lita and it sounded terrible to me because I was like, just, just name I hadn't heard. And I was like, you know, again, I don't know what. name would have sounded right because it's like I'd only been one name until that point. And I was like, oh, that's weird. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see what it aired.

And then they said it. They're like, sure enough, they're like, S.A. Rios and Lita. And I was like, all right. I remember it taking me a while to turn my head when people would be like Lita. And I'm like, oh, right, me, me, Lita. Yes. And now I imagine more people call you Lita than they call you Amy. And it sounds the exact same to me, whether someone's staying.

me earlier. I'm just like, yeah, that's me. What is Machete Girl? Okay, so Machete Girl. Oh, we got to take a sip of coffee for this story. Once I retired, I was looking for my next adventure. I decided to explore

Nicaragua, and I bought a place down there. And so that was like my next, I spent about half the year down there. for a few, for about good five, six years. And it's just Wild West down there. I met so many friends and my lifestyle. You know, it's like I'm riding my bike to the market and surfing in the afternoon. But so you can just walk in there. People are normally, they're doing it because their job, right? But they'll just have a machete on their hip. And I'm like, because they're like using it for work, right? But I'm like, oh my God, that's so cool. They have just like,

just whatever walking into the corner store or the machete and they're like yeah nicarago man do it you know do whatever and i was like i'm going to walk around with a machete on my hip so i no one really knew like no one knew lita like no one knew who i was down down there but i was the white girl with the dog with the machete on my hip so they called me machete girl and i was taking all these cool pictures on my phone and i was kind of off social media in general but i was like well i don't care if i'll make it public and I don't care who sees it, but I'm just going to be like machete girl. If you know that you're following Lita's account, that's fine. If not, I don't care.

But I'm seeing all this cool stuff. So if you're like scroll all the way back to the beginning of my Instagram, it's all Nicaragua pictures and the locals there were calling me Machete Girl. What's so interesting about you is you've spent like pretty much your entire adult life as this other character, as Lita. Who was Amy before Lita? So that is what like When I retired

It was like the active Reinvention of Amy It's like okay Lita's gonna be on pause And take a big old nap So figure out who you are I remember in interviews Like if I had an interview coming up

When I was actively wrestling They you know You eventually get to the point where they're like So what do you do when you're not wrestling? What are your interests? What do you like? And I remember thinking I had to make stuff up because I'm like it sounds boring to be like you know or I'd say something that I did like

prior to like in theory I would do these things but I'm eat sleeping breathing wrestling I'm doing promotion I'm doing my laundry if I am not you know or I'm in a ring like that's what my life is but I'm like that sounds cool in an interview so I'd have to I would literally make stuff up and so I was like okay, now that you're not making things up, what do you want to do? Who is Lita? And I mean, I think the thing was like, I just want, I love the aspect of never having two days the same.

Like when I'm WWE and life on the road and there's not, I like not knowing what my day holds. I like getting outside my comfort zone. And I always continue to push myself to do that. And so, yeah, I decided. to go explore around Latin America. I wanted to get a, like, investment property slash second home slash, I don't know, like a hut somewhere. And, you know, it just turned out in Nicaragua. I wanted to be able to continue practicing my Spanish and meet some people and I wanted

to surf. And that checked a bunch of the boxes. This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens, which is a super important part of my morning routine. With one scoop of athletic greens, you get 75 high-quality vitamins, whole-foods source superfoods, and probiotics to help you start your day right. This special blend of ingredients supports your gut health, your nervous system, your immune system,

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Again, that's athletic greens.com slash. insight to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. Athletic Greens. So when you leave WWE, like life just comes to a screeching halt because you've been on the road like crazy year after year, do you kind of go, wait a second, I can do whatever I want now? Yes. And it was a little overwhelming. I remember waking up from like a big, like, two-day nap, you know, like.

after buying home after my retirement match and then being like, okay. So what now? You know, and I remember having that feeling of taking my dog for a walk being like, you could take the longest walk you want right now. Like you are not getting back for an interview. Like you're not having to switch your laundry from the washer to the dryer. Wow, this is really weird. So I had already started my band at that time.

And that was like something for me to do, but it just didn't have that like rat race, like, you know, like go, go, go kind of feel to it. But it was a creative outlet still. Yeah. And so I did feel like I kind of was like piecing together the elements that I got from wrestling. I ended up, I was hosting a radio show on the rock station in Atlanta. I was, I hooked up with this theater group. we were doing this kind of like improv theater once a month. And then I had my band.

And so I kind of felt like you had the live proud aspect. I had the put together, like for the show, I would do bullet points. It was like similar to a match where I'm like, okay, I know where I'm going, but we'll see what happens along the way. I kind of just had some things that all stoked those, that same fire. And I don't know. I think I'm just kind of a pirate for life, really. is the bottom line. Did you have a moment in WWE where you were like,

I just don't want to be here anymore? Yeah, it wasn't, it was like, I think I don't want to be here. It was at the time that my contract maybe had, I don't know, whenever they start talking to you, a year out, six months, eight months out, whatever it was. And I just remember not being as excited when my music would hit. And just being like, that's my music, you know, and just like, I think that means it's time to go to work, you know, and like walking out and even probably being on the ramp going, that was a weird feeling. That's not how it's supposed to feel. That's not why you do this. And, you know, my, I never want to punch a clock and that felt like punching, like at that moment felt like punching a clock. And, and so I remember at that point asking, I was like, take me off the live event. And I was like, take me off the live event.

for a while. I need to figure this out because, you know, they started asking contract negotiations like, well, what would you want? Like financially? And I was like, that's not even how I want to think about this. I just want to think about if I want to be here and we can work out whatever else after that. So if you could just take me off the live events, let me just think about it. And I just remember not, not missing it and feeling more right that and just kind of having this perspective of like, man, I've done more than I ever thought I would do in my career. Just like maybe it's time. Maybe that's the time to get out.

And I didn't feel fear. I was like, I'm okay if I fall on my face on whatever this next chapter looks like. But I've meanwhile, like there's no, yeah, I had to make up hobbies. You know,

like that's how in it I was to, um, and it takes a hundred percent of, of your time and energy, even if you're not actively there, your brain is there. You're preparing to be there, you know, and I was, like, I kind of was like missing out, like my friends were having kids and getting married and I wasn't at any of the baby showers or any of the weddings or anything because, you know, either I was on the road or I stopped getting the invitations because they're like, I'm sure she's out of town, like at school,

you know. Do you, like, did you have a match in mind of how you wanted it to end? Because I can't imagine that the way that it did end for you. was like was exactly how you wanted it to go. I mean, I was happy to work Mickey James, but in my mind, it was a good long match and we hug at the end of it and I, you know, like, here's the title. I see that it's in good hands and I'm out of here, you know? And it was just, it was like, it just didn't hurt my feelings.

You know, and I was very vocal about it. I went to my producer that day. I went to the head writer. I went to Vince. I went back to my producer. I went back to the writer, back to Vince being like, is there any way we can not do this? Can we just do this in a pre-tape later?

Like, can I just have this match? And, you know, the answer was just, you're a heel. This is what we're doing. You're deemed to somebody that we're going to put, you know, that we want to boost up. And that's what you do when you leave. And then, and I was like, what did I, do? What did I do to like to have this ending and they're like, you're looking at it wrong. It's

business. Be or heal. That's what needs to happen. And I remember saying, all right, well, this is the last time you get to pull my strings. So I guess you're pulling them hard. You know, I'll go out there and I'll do business because I'm a professional. But I want you to know this hurts my feelings. And I know this is business. You're telling me, which doesn't involve feelings, but I want you to know as somebody who broke my neck for the business and who has given everything and it hurts my feelings. Was this just a product of the time because women's wrestling didn't get to the level where it's at now at that point?

Yeah, I mean, I think that's honestly, especially now with perspective, right? That's what I chalked it up to. It's like that's where we were then. And it really was like not. given a lot of thought, you know, it was like, oh, here's like a thing that could just like stoke crime time for five minutes, whatever, you know, like it just wasn't given a lot of thought to it. And then, yeah, now, now, now we're here, you know, so. I remember watching that crime time segment going, what, like this? Like, it just felt like I was insulted as a fan. Yeah, it was,

And it was one of those things that was always so hard. You know, I'd get asked about it either by fans or in interviews or whatever, you know, and it was like hard because it's like, you know, you're trying to like air your dirty laundry or go on these rants or even just like carry negative energy with you actively, right? But it wasn't a thing that I could be like come up with some way to spin to be like, it's great. It was hilarious. I thought, you know, and I was just like, yeah.

It's a bummer. You know, like, and then they would keep talking about it. I'd be like, yeah. You know, kind of like, I'm not going to pile on, but I hear you. Yeah. When you think of Lita, what's the pinnacle of your career? God. That's really hard because I feel like there's so many, like, you know, it's like I felt like I was almost getting there.

And then I got, and my neck broke in 2002, my neck didn't break. It was broken for. for me on my behalf it was broken. And and then... You know it was broken immediately? No. I knew something was terribly wrong.

Because you were in a lot of pain? Yeah, and I couldn't move. But I thought it was honestly my collarbone because my arm wouldn't move. But so that I was getting crazy momentum right then and then I had the sidelines. And then I was feeling in a really, really good pocket too. right when I tore everything in my knee.

And I was out again for another, like, I wasn't fully out. I just couldn't wrestle for, you know, like six, seven months. They brought me back out on crutches and carted me out there. But, you know, I couldn't be in the ring doing what I was feeling really good about at that time. And just feeling like in a really good pocket that I, like, switching, just like working, being like throw it up me change my time do whatever like you know i i can i could adjust because i figured it out yeah so if so that was that's the moment you think of like where you could

have gone if you hadn't broke your neck yeah yeah both both separate separate times it's like i felt like in a really great pocket um and then was yanked by by injuries like but it seems pretty obvious now with the work you've most recently done that you can still go. And I feel like you have another two, three, five years in you if you want to. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Like, I think it's been cool. Like, it was inspiring seeing Edge come back after all of the, you know, not only his neck, but then coming back and being like, yeah, obviously he can still go.

and knows how to engage with the crowd and evoke the reactions that you want. And so I think it's like it's tempting, but at the same time, it's like, I don't know. I really do feel conflicted. And like that was really great. I'm really proud of what I did with Becky. So I'm like, okay, cool, get out while the getting is good.

Like, everything's fine, you know. But then there is that thing to go, well, if that was fine, how much better could it be? you really did have, you know, more time to train and all of that. I think that because I'm pretty just grounded in where I am in life, and it's like if the opportunity falls in my lap again as it did, like I just feel like I don't want to force anything because then you have this preconceived notion and you have expectations and I didn't have any.

And I think that's what made it all so beautiful and feel so fulfilling. And it's like if I'm like, yeah, like I'm going to set out to have this last run, I don't know. It's like, I don't know what might happen. Maybe somebody calls me out on TV and maybe I answer, you know. Well, and you're already in the Hall of Fame. So it's not like that carrot's being dangled. Like, you're already in. Yeah, yeah.

I was actually, I was talking with Vince about this whole last run. And I was like, it just felt really fun. to go out there and do because I there didn't feel like there any stakes it's like I've already got the ring this is just you know a cherry on top and I felt that I could really be in the moment out there and really enjoy it which was really nice because I don't feel like I soaked that in a lot because things were so busy or I was distracted or and so that was really nice with this match and I just felt like it could really be in the moment. And I just, I don't mean to match.

Like from the moment I was asked to be in it to the moment I got back on the plane to fly home, just really could be thankful for it and taken going, wow, this is such a crazy experience. This is like, I'm so fortunate to be here. And it just felt really nice. Who was the biggest mentor for you in your WWE career? I think that, like, I've, like, leading up to it and then there, I've always just been, like, get everything from anyone that you can, you know, like, soak in the knowledge from, from anywhere you can. I would say that I was really fortunate in both the relationships I was in with Matt Hardy was very instrumental and helping me, you know, like, if I had questions about Matt, he was, but me, Matt and John. when we were in the car, it was like, we might turn the radio up to sing to a song for a minute.

We turn it back down and then we were right back talking about wrestling, you know? And so that was really great. It was like we were having a brainstorming session on the road the whole time. And then same with Edge, you know, like we had a really great, like a portion of our relationship was like talking about the business, you know. And I think with us it was a little different, it was less, lesser than because we were kind in later stages of our careers at that point. But he's very analytical, very smart about the business.

And I always felt like any advice that he had was I could trust. And I feel like people always talk about this with Vince as well. Like Vince is just a genius and has so much great advice. Is there one particular piece of advice that you plucked from him that you use all the time? I mean, I think it's just as basic as, you know, He's like, a star is made like right here, right? And so it's not, no matter how like spectacular your flips are or whatever, it's about making moments and making me care with your face, like showing me you're in pain,

showing me your spoke, show me you're mad, you know. And we definitely, like, I go back to that every time. And I remember when I was producing with the women constantly, you know, because they're trying to prove themselves and show how athletic they are. Like, I need some time to breathe and I need those moments. I need to see that you're struggling or that, you know, all of these things and like, how many, like, we've talked about it, right? Like, what's your WrestleMania moment? They don't say what's your WrestleMania match.

Like, it's a moment. It's like one thing. Like, one, like Stephanie's highlight reel are slaps. It's like one moment, right? And I think that's, those are so cool. Yeah. I feel like you were so close to being an AEW last year. How close were you really?

I was thinking about it. I was watching all the time, and I was watching Britt Baker Ascend. And I was watching the crowd really attached to her, and they lobbed it up to work with her. And as I was seeing their AEW in general grow, I was like, Britt was at a point that I was like need to have a big moment with somebody bigger than her. And they can, her and

Thunder Rosa and Nila Rose and, you know, Ruby's at home later, but like, can have these matches and elevate each other slowly, but if there was somebody big that could come in, like Sting did with Darby Allen. Or, you know,

that's where you can catapult somebody. So it did seem exciting. But at the same time, it's like their roster had a long way to grow, and they're still kind of getting their feet under them about how they want to present as a company. And then around that same time, WWE is talking to them and just knowing how deep their roster already is, it just seemed like more possibilities and a better fit. Not to mention, like, it is home for me, right? Yeah, and all the history there. Yeah.

So it was like, I wasn't thinking about either company when I was, you know, when I was first approached. And then Cody had reached out and I was like, well, let me like watch the program more from a aspect of maybe being there and seeing how I could fit in besides just like catching it when I catch it. And so yeah, of course I started brainstorming and thinking about the possibilities. But then on the flip side when I'm talking about WWE, I was just like, it's just right there for the taking and just seem to be the better fit. Plus, I never met Brit. Like Becky is like a close friend of mine. And so to be able to have that, the possibility of that match, you know, we just really wanted to,

I didn't think of it could ever happen. And so to be able to have that, yeah, it was special. We talked earlier about how, you know, you were Lita for so long and then you had to relearn kind of to become Amy again. Did you have to like reintroduce yourself back to Lita over these last handful of weeks or months? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I just felt like I was like, like, oh there she is like as it was over like my last tv and the match i was like all right i now now i remember like this because i'm very you know in my regular life like understated and humble and just you know kind of um quiet even and so and just to be that larger than life and um yeah it just it definitely felt like i was playing a role

at first. I remember how to say these words and how to hold my shoulders back and all of that stuff. So that's what I'll do. But then as we moved in towards the end of it, I was like actually feeling it. Did you always want to be a wrestler? Was that the dream as a kid growing up? No, I wanted to be a marine biologist. I was like obsessed with Jacques Cousteau as a kid. Obsessed. Every, every, you know, like in a book report or something like they, kind of leave it open enough so that you can like massage it into who you want. Every book report. And part of this was also lazy because I was like,

I already know a lot about this person. It would be Jacques Cousteau and Nelson Mandela. I did like, I did so many like presentations on them. It wasn't until like in my early 20s. Like I mean, kind of from the moment I decided I want to be a wrestler till I had a contract at WWB. It was pretty maybe three,

three years or so. but I was taking judo and moita kickboxing but I got super into judo and I was competing on the East Coast and I was playing in bands just for fun you know and when I start I didn't grow up with wrestling in my household or anything and so but it was my my boyfriend at the time's dude thing don't talk to me I got my wrestling shows on but as I'd pop my head in there I found myself lingering and going Oh, this is, but I immediately was thinking, these dudes have a cool job. You know, not like, and so I started looking at it like, I want a cool job too. You know, they get to do judo and be in a band at the same time because they're rock stars

and athletes in one profession and started holding myself accountable and just saying out loud, I'm going to do that, not knowing the first thing about how I was going to do that, but I was going to do it. I can't picture you as a marine biologist. I love the ocean, though. I think that that's, okay, if you take away like the lab coat and like the microscope and the glasses. Yeah.

And think more like the wetsuit and the fins and like the field. Think of like a field marine biologist. Like Ocean Ramsey. Do you know who I'm talking about? I don't. You will look her up after and go, ah, that's exactly what I was going to be. Okay. Yeah.

So, yeah. I mean, I just, I, the ocean is my, if I need to level out, if I need to feel appreciative, if I need to feel something is bigger than me, I go to the ocean and there it is. Do you live really close to the ocean? Yeah, yeah, I take my scooter over there. Oh, it's that close. Wow. Yeah.

Because I tell people I live close to the ocean, but it's like a nine minute drive. That's close. That's close. Yeah. You're way closer. I have to, like, worry about parking when I got there and the whole thing. It's the scooter's a game changer, dude. I'm telling you, the scooter is a game changer.

Like a Vespa, throw that thing on the sidewalk, run in there, run in there, do your thing. It's just, you'll think of me, if you ever switch gears, do this, it is a game changer. Okay. All right. Think about just alone, the time you have to look for partners. working, number one. Number two, lane splitting is legal in California. Yes. Traffic, dead stop, boom, there you are. Yeah, it's like time travel. It's just like.

Everybody's going two miles an hour and you're going 30 and 40 miles an hour. Yeah. As we wrap this up, I've always been curious. What was your first tattoo? My first tattoo says iconoclast in Cyrillic because it was a time. It was when Everybody was getting Japanese, everybody was getting like kanji on them, like Japanese characters on them. And I wanted a word, but I didn't want you to be able to see iconoclass. I don't want to be asked daily what it meant. So I got it in Cyrillic, which is the breaker of traditional icons. So kind of it.

It's on the back of my knack right here. So it's kind of my mantra all the way back. I mean, I got it right when I turned 18, you know. I was young destined to be the breaker of traditional icons. I love that. And I mean, you basically, you spoke this into existence. Yeah. This is a theme of your life, Amy.

I love a full circle moment. I love some poetic, some poetry thrown in my life. And I love not looking for parking spaces. Oh, I'm with you on all of those. This is amazing. What does your daily life look like? Because I feel like it's very juxtaposed of like the lights and the loud music and the acrobatics of wrestling.

What's the other part of your life look like? Yeah. So since pandemic especially, like I cook a lot. I'm in my garden and I'm at the beach a lot. I mean, in NorCal Beach is different than, you know, like Baywatch. So it's more just like walking on the beach, sticking my feet in, or I'll, you know, strap on, put a wet suit on and go boogieboarding or surfing. That's a thing. Walking on the beach, it's grounding, right?

Yes. What is it? It aligns the magnets, right? Yeah, you got to take your shoes off. If you're ever at the beach, whoever just doesn't take their shoes off, you're missing out. Just touch the earth. I'm not trying to get into any sort of chakra scenario, but like just you'll feel better about it. You're missing an opportunity if you don't take your shoes off. I have loved this conversation.

And thank you so much for making the time to do this. Yeah, for sure. I end every conversation with the same question because I love gratitude. And you spoke about it earlier. But what are the three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? Wow. Number one, if I could go on a tangent on this, I will end up in tears, but is my 19-year-old dog who is by my side at all times snoring just off camera.

I couldn't feel a love, like, strong feel for her. And what's her name? Mackenzie, but she goes by the weekends, like the rock. She's the Kenz. Yeah. I would say, I could be specific to the ocean because, like, nature in general, but the ocean is I am grateful for how it makes me feel, what it has the power to do and what it does to contribute to the earth.

And the third is I would say, I don't want to single out a person, but like the close friends I have that I trust with my life. Like it is, it means everything knowing I have not just one, but like a handful of people I could call it any time and tell them anything. And they're not going to love me any less. amazing all three others are great you are a legend in the ring you are a legend in life so amy thank you so much for your time thank you for having me isn't she awesome if you're a wrestling fan you know lita but i'm so glad we got a chance to really learn about amy here so a huge thank you to her for joining us thank you to you as always for

being on this journey with us wherever you are whatever you happen to be doing right now and if you haven't yet Please consider subscribing or following the show on the podcast app that you're listening on right now. If it's Apple Podcasts, it'd be awesome if you could subscribe and also leave a review. If it's Spotify, follow and leave a rating. It'd be so, so helpful. And take a screenshot. Let us know what caught your ear the most from this one. And share it on social media.

Tag us. Lita is at Machete Girl. What a great story about that username, too, right? I am at Chris Van Fleet. and I tweeted this out earlier in the week. It's a quote that I love so much from Bruce Lee. He said, if you spend too much time thinking about a thing,

you'll never get it done. Make at least one definitive move daily toward your goal. Be great. Be grateful. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes.

So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here.

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