Insight with Chris Van Vliet - WrestleMania 41 Predictions, John Cena's Retirement Tour & Raw On Netflix w/ Sam Roberts

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

https://cvvtix.com  Tickets for the first ever INSIGHT LIVE the day before the Royal Rumble on January 31, 2025 in Indianapolis are on sale now! Sam Roberts (@notsam) is a professional wrestling broadcaster. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at the NotSam Studios in New York City to discuss what he thinks will happen at Crown Jewel, if Cody Rhodes should turn heel, was Roman Reigns' title reign too long, John Cena's retirement tour, early WrestleMania 41 predictions, Raw moving to Netflix, the most underrated wrestler, what was the greatest return in wrestling and more! Quote I'm thinking about: Let Candy Corn be your reminder that no matter how many people don't like you, there are people out there who will literally love you for exactly the reasons you were rejected by others. You are someone's Candy Corn (derogatory) but you are also someone's Candy Corn (affectionate) Sponsors: VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv MANSCAPED: Get 20% off plus free shipping when you use the code CHRISVAN at https://manscaped.com ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv MAREK HEALTH: Get a 10% discount on Marek Health's Optimization Package with code CVV: https://marekhealth.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at https://bluechew.com ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/ PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh my goodness. Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CBV, Chris Van Fleet, and out of all of the wrestling podcasts out there. Thank you for being here with us. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on planet Earth. Throw your phone up into the air

and hit that follow button with a spinning heel kick because I don't want you to miss any of the episodes that we have coming up. You can't just tap it. You can't just hit the fall. a button with your thumb or your finger. You have to hit it with a spinning heel kick. And I am so excited to announce that we are doing our very first live episode of Insight. And I want you guys to be there. We are bringing insights to the stage in Indianapolis. It's happening on January 31st, the day

before the Royal Rumble. Tickets go on sale tomorrow. If you're listening to this on the day when this comes out. They go on sale tomorrow, Friday, November 1st at CVVTix.com. The guest, or should I say the guests that we will be having with us, they're going to be announced in the next upcoming weeks, but grab those tickets when they go on sale Friday, November 1st, CVVTX, TIX.com, and we will see you in Indy for that. My buddy, Sam Roberts, is back on the show today. And aside from me, seeing him on the WWE pre-show panels and as the co-host of Raw Talk. He also has a great podcast called Not Sam Wrestling, which you can find wherever you're listening

to this, of course. And you can also go check out his YouTube channel called Not Sam Wrestling over on YouTube. And while we're talking about YouTube, if you just listen to the show and maybe you've seen some of the clips on YouTube, go hit that same spinning heel kick on the subscribe. button on both of my YouTube channels, the main Chris Van Vleet channel with the full episodes and the CVV clips channel where we put the short clips and the shorts on there. The goal for the clips channel, it's at 805,000 subscribers right now, which is mind blowing. The goal, which I set like a year and a half ago, the goal was to be at a million subscribers by my birthday, May 19th.

I think we can do it before then. We can definitely do it. We can definitely do it. it with your help. The goal now is March 1st. So I've moved up the goal like two and a half months. I think we can do it by March 1st. So how many times can I say spinning heel kick in this intro? Go hit that spinning heel kick on the subscribe button on YouTube as well. Sam has like this encyclopedic knowledge of wrestling. And I just loved the way on his show how he breaks down moments and storylines. It's amazing. During this episode, we love look ahead to a few of the big things on the horizon like raw coming to Netflix, John Sina's retirement tour, WrestleMania 41. We also chat about the greatest return ever. We both

give our opinion on that and the most underrated wrestler ever. This was too much fun. I feel like I could chat with Sam for hours. And this is something I think we need to make like an ongoing thing. He was on the show right before WrestleMania 40, and we speculated wildly about everything there and talked a lot about different storylines and just feels like, I don't know. Doesn't it feel like this year has just been massive for wrestling as a whole?

And I know it's tough because we're in it and we're seeing it like day to day and week to week, but like just zoom out just a little bit. Just zoom out just a tiny little bit and just realize that there's a lot of great stuff going on right now. But I feel like Sam should come on like every few months and we can do this and just chat about everything going on in wrestling. Snap a screenshot, tag us so that we can share it out. He's at Not Sam. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And here it is. Ladies and gentlemen,

please welcome. Sam Roberts. Back inside the Not Sam Studios made to look like the Insight Studios. Today it's the CVVV Studios. So thank you again for allowing me to be in here. We share. We share. The Natsam industry is a collaborative one. Anytime I'm on the East Coast, I always want to come by and have a conversation with you, and you have a phrase that I love, and I've borrowed it quite a bit. We can speculate wildly. That's rule number three. We know the three rules. Give it to us again. Is watch the product. Okay. The product. I actually own the trademark. I watch the product.

No way. I do. Watch the product. Watch the product. Everything counts. Speculate wildly. Why don't you just trademark them all? I probably will. Speculate wildly. It's a good one, right?

That's a pretty good T-shirt. Yeah, maybe I will. Seriously. That's a good call. Think about it. Well, it's already, in case anybody's wondering, right after we taped this, I started the process. That's right. That's right.

It's mine. Gimic attorney, right? Yep. Oh, yeah. He's the best. Oh, yeah, one text. Hey, can I trademark this? I try to trademark emergency podcast.

And? There was something that was already trademark that was too close to it. He said it will never pass. Oh. It was a good idea. But I also feel like I've done enough branding on emergency podcast that now, whenever anybody else does one, even though they existed before, people are like, Sam, somebody else doing an emergency podcast?

Well, they existed as an emergency podcast, but not with the siren, not with the sound. You can't just hold it up. Come on. Give us the whole thing. It's fake. If you hear me. every time I hear a siren now. Absolutely.

Absolutely. You've been crushing it this last year. Oh, come on. I'm just trying to be like you. Well, I'm just trying to be like you. All right. All right. Mutual admiration society.

You get paid by WWE to watch wrestling. Yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. I got to talk about it too, but that's usually not a problem. Well, I think we're all talking about it anyway. Yeah. Yeah, I would be talking about it regardless. It all kind of makes sense.

Yeah. I sat here with you right before WrestleMania. So it was a little over six months ago. So much has changed since then. And it's crazy that we're now starting to see the fallout of some storylines. And as we're recording this right now, Cody Rhodes has surpassed 200 days as the champion. Yeah. A lot has happened.

Let's take it back to Roman being the champion for 1,316 days. My days. My days of my tribal chief. Do you think that the title reign was too long, too short, or just right? I mean, it's hard to see. say it definitely was not too long. It's hard to say too short because sure he could have beaten Hogan's record, but ultimately the Cody moment coupled with the return of Roman Raines into what he is now, it's hard to say that there was a misstep. So I can't say,

I will say that there was this moment though at WrestleMania where even though it was kind of inevitable and I would say like the title defenses leading up to WrestleMania with like the, it was like the L.A. night match and the four-way match. Like those weren't the most compelling Roman Rain's title defenses. So there was this feeling of, okay, maybe it's time to let Cody have his moment, especially with the build there. But when Roman walked out and the music was playing, I and a lot of people around me were like, I don't know if I'm ready for this.

I don't know if I'm ready to say goodbye. Like, this has been our reality. This has been our life. I don't think I'm ready for this to be over. Yeah. And I wasn't. I thought for sure that at WrestleMania 39, there was no way that Roman Raines was walking out as a champion.

I was surprised. I was, like everybody else, going, I don't know if this is the right decision. And we got another year of just great storytelling, more layers added to the bloodline. It's easy to look back now in hindsight, go, oh yeah, they made the right move. Yes, yes.

And it's also because of how good Cody is. I would say for most performers, that loss, the whole build up to losing at 39 would have been, could have been detrimental. But Cody is so good that, like, you know, the three-match series with Brock Lesnar, which I think put Cody on an even higher level. Like that was the perfect thing to go back to, okay, I didn't slaughter this beast and win the title. But what did I do?

The next, I slaughtered a beast. Then doing the stuff with Jay Uso, which I think everybody just loved and had so much fun with. And I think that the reason that a lot of us thought, ooh, Cody could be in trouble is because the art of the true baby face was dead. And I don't think any of us thought it was coming back.

But if you really look at what Cody's doing, he is the only pure, good guy, baby face that gets cheered universally. When you go to these shows, men, women, and children, cheer Cody, sing, whoa. They want to hear what he wants to talk about. They're completely on board. Yeah. And I don't think that's been the case since 1989. Although there's a lot of people that are like, you know what? I can't wait for that heel turn to happen.

Yeah, but yes, we all go because we know how wrestling works. It's going to be glorious when it does happen. It's going to be amazing. So you're a person saying when it happens, not if Cody turns heel? When? When. But no time soon. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

No time soon. Like Cody is on. I don't even think people realize the level of historic baby face run that Cody is on. Because like I said, I mean, you go through it, right? after Hogan, the next, and people were waning on Hogan by 1990. So like after that, the next big universal baby face was probably Stone Cold, right? Brett was a top guy. Diesel was a top guy, but everybody wasn't sold on diesel. Brett was a top guy but never had that lengthy run.

Sean was a top guy but never had that lengthy run. And he got boot, Sean. 96 Survivor Series, he's getting boot. So you go to Stone Cold and he was getting universally cheap. but he's an anti-hero. He's not a pure baby face. The Rock is getting universally cheered, but he's an anti-hero. He's not a pure baby face.

So who's the next top guy after that? Sina, arguably. Half the crowd is cheering him. Half the crowd is booing him. We haven't had a top guy baby face universally cheered. Like Cody is since 1989, and he's not doing tricks. He's not doing like, I'm kind of a heel. I'm like the edgy, good guy.

He's like, no, I'm a good guy who does the right thing. and maybe we're just at a place societally where that's what we need for an escape. We just want to cheer the good guy again. Just tell me a guy can work hard and do the right thing and he's going to get rewarded for it. And how can you boo a guy who comes out looks for a kid in the crowd

to then lift them up over the guardrail at a live event and do the entrance with him? How could you boo that guy? But you also know he's not a machine creation. You know that the reason that he's there is because he did that. This wasn't supposed to happen. Like, as much as he is a wrestling baby face,

he's also a complete disruptor. The only reason this is happening is because he left and proved he could do it on his own. And then he left again to prove he could really do it. And then he got here and it's like, that whole like undesirable, the undeniable thing, he's in that undeniable space. Yeah.

You know? there is just something in his story that's so relatable. The idea of if you bet on yourself and you really believe that you can do it, it is possible. Yes, and people want to believe that. And I feel like there's a cynicism and a pessimism in society now that kind of permeates, where in the 90s, it felt a lot more like we want to rebel against this like cookie-cutter industry thing. we need an anti-hero. We need somebody to curse out the boss.

That's everywhere now. Everywhere. Like, up to the White House is everywhere. So it's like, where can we go to escape? Because that's what wrestling is and escape. Where can we go to escape? And it's just like the guy who puts in the most work and is a good guy wins. He is genuinely such a good guy.

And he's genuinely such a good guy. Yeah. You and I both know, like, there are. aren't any of these like, oh, yeah, but I had this interaction with him. Yeah, when the camera's on, he's great, but when the camera's off, that's not Cody. Now, some people say he likes to lie, but that's just fun. Cody lies are fun, you know, other than that. That's a whole category, right?

It's our Cody lies. When we look at this entire year, and it's not over quite yet, but who do you think's the MVP of 2024? I think the MVP of 2024 industry-wide is Drew McIntyre. I don't think if you really look, anybody's had a year like that guy. You know, this is a guy who was lost last year,

who going into the pandemic, had all the momentum. He was about to be that baby face that I just described. Yeah. And lost it. Yeah. And didn't get it back

when the crowd came back. It wasn't like, well, now that the crowd's back, everything we were going to do, we're going to do it now. No, sorry. Like, we've moved, and you need to figure out

where you fit in. And I think there were a lot of questions because now Roman's the guy, right? And Drew McIntyre becoming a more realistic version of himself, who was saying things that weren't exactly comfortable but also weren't false. And being that guy who stepped up and started this rivalry with CM Punk, which I think when CM Punk first got to WWE, nobody was like, yeah, the first big story will be with Drew. Oh, yeah.

That wasn't the conversation. It was supposed to be Seth Rollins. Right, right. But as of January, it was like, no, we're all on board with this Drew McIntyre thing. And the fact that Drew as the guy in the ring was able to maintain interest in this story with a guy who couldn't wrestle from whatever it was, January until August. And, you know, it helps that it's CM Punk. He's like one of the most compelling characters ever.

But Drew being able to do that. Drew being able to allow us to lose ourselves in that story. Drew coming out of this whole thing better. You know, Drew being able to step toe to toe microphone to microphone with one of the most compelling speakers the industry's ever seen and not only hold his own, but have people going like, no, I like Drew. Yeah. To me, I don't think anybody, and then all.

also, by the way, have fantastic matches. Yeah. I don't think anybody, as of now in 2024, has grown more or performed at a higher level than Drew McIntyre. It's hard to boo him, and I know he's a heel and we're supposed to boom, but it's hard to boo him because you just have so much respect for the work that he does. And you almost want to boo him out of respect. Right.

But you're like, we're supposed to do this? Right. Like the Dominic Mysterio, like, so good. I'll never boo Dominic Mysterio. Oh, I'll never. When he comes out, you boo him because that's just the thing you do. Not me. Not me. You'll never, you will never find one ounce of footage of me booing him. By the way, turn on any episode of Raw Talk, turn on any episode of anything on any time they give me a microphone. It's time to sing

the praises of Dominic Mysterio. Yeah, I think that if we were having a top three or top five of MVP's for 2024, Dominic Mysterio's got to be on that list. Drew barely edged him out. What a year for Dominic Mysterio. The best. The best. He's the best. That's a another one that just like embraces, just leans into all of it. Everything they say about you, just lean all the way in. And also be that representative. Like if you're going to be the young guy on the roster, be the young guy on the roster. Don't try to be like guys who are, have been around.

Don't try to be like guys who are 10 years older than you. Be the guy who's showing up in clothes that nobody else is wearing, saying things that nobody else is doing. And have pride in the fact. Do you like chicken tendies? I like chicken tendinges. I mean, who doesn't like chicken tendies? But to see that representation, it's important.

He really won me over when he talked about his love for In-N-Out, and I love In-N-Out. I live in California. Sure. And his hatred for Waterburger. And I was like, I'm with you. And this gets me a lot of heat now. Go ahead.

Because everybody in the South, especially Texas, is like, what do you mean you don't like Waterburger? It's way better than an out. Come on, people. No. No, not at all. No, no, and I don't eat burgers, but I'll go with Dom on this one. It sounds like you're going to go with Dom on anything here.

I mean, I'm trying to think of anything I haven't sided with Dom on yet and have not happened. Yeah. His promos are so great when you can hear him. When you can hear him. And then when he breaks into speaking Spanish and just chewing out the crowd. Oh, when he starts speaking in Spanish, I love it. I love it. It's brilliant.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, and there are witnesses. Like, every single time it happens. I'm watching Raw, you know, because now I got to watch Ron. Stanford. I have to. That sounds terrible. I go to WWHQ to watch Monday Night Raw with with Megan Moran. My life. But I am fortunate enough to be able to watch Rye every week there in Stanford. Megan and I are watching it. And every time Dom comes on, it's and just me going, yeah, yeah, every time, every time. People think that he's new to the business, four years in.

He's a 20-year vet. Absolutely. He is a 20-year vet. And you can see that. He can be at SummerSlam at 8 years old. He got physical. There was physicality. That's a loose interpretation of it. He performed. He performed. He performed at SummerSlam at 8 years old.

That's incredible. That is incredible. Yeah. We had a... And he was a great performer. You see those faces? It was incredible. I believed him.

He looked legitimately scared. Yes, I believed him. Really good at playing the PSP as well. Yep. And now we see him all these years later. He's super good at PS5. Look at him. Look at him.

he's amazing everything counts everything counts that's why everything counts TM yeah yeah it's a ways away from now okay

but let's try to fantasy books and matches for Russellmania 41 okay two nights of course so we've got the ability now to have a main event on Saturday

a main event on Sunday okay who do you think for sure is in the main event picture individually yeah and then we'll figure out

what the matches are because I think like if John On this retirement tour, I feel like he has to be in a main event match at WrestleMania. I would agree. But then who's it against? I think Cody's got to be in a main event. I think it was...

Roman's got to be in a main event. Right. And then I feel like we were supposed to get Rock versus Roman at WrestleMania 39. Got to get the final ball. And we were supposed to have Rock versus Roman at WrestleMania 40. Yes. I feel like that's going to be the play. So see if you can ride out with me on this.

Let's go. Because I've been thinking a lot about this, as I tend to do. because I'm also sitting there going like, okay, but you've also got Royal Rumble and you've got elimination chamber. So when you got stars this big, like people are like, well, the Rock's going to join the Royal Rumble. Rock's not going to fight in the Royal Rumble. Yeah.

Rock's not going to jump in the chamber. That's not going to happen. I don't think so. I agree with you. Okay. So I go, so how do you get there, right? And I go, well, what if this time for your night two main event, it's Cody and the Rock, right?

The Rock's already come back. He's got the People's title. Cody's got the WWE championship. Rock's like enough. Enough. I'm going to do what I should have done last year. In fact, I'm going to do what I did do last year. I'm going to pin you, but this time I'm going to take you out and I'm going to take it all.

Roman reigns then after wins the Royal Rumble. And it's like, oh, Roman and Gunther. And Roma goes, no, I'm taking the match from you. And so now, instead of Cody taking the Rock's match, Romans taking the Rock's match. and it develops into a triple threat. So you got Cody, Roman, Rock, with Roman winning the Royal Rumble. Wow.

Then on the other side of things, you had John Sina. And John Sina has been like, I'm going to go, I'm going to win the Royal Rumble because if it's going to be my last WrestleMania, I want a main event. But he doesn't win the Royal Rumble.

And he's like, oh, because, you know, John Sina, who's got a struggle is a very compelling John Sina, you know, with back against the wall. So he's like, I got one more shot. my last elimination chamber premium live event, I'm fighting in the elimination chamber. And Sina wins the elimination chamber.

So now your night one main event becomes John Sina versus Gunther. And it's the whole thing of John Sina's on this dream retirement tour, except Gunther is obviously the ultimate spoiler. Gunther is the ultimate dose of reality. Gunther is that guy who's like, whether you're Sammy Zane or Goldberg or Brett Hart or John Sina, Gunther doesn't care. So I've got Gunther and John Cena after John Cena wins the chamber, and I've got Cody, Rock, Roman, after Roman wins the Rumble. I like all of this.

And it makes sense as you're explaining it. But what this means is that both champions have to hold the title for another six months. That means Cody is the champion for a year, and Gunther will be the champion at that point for eight months. Yeah, I mean, it's possible that they'll lose it. it seems more likely that Gunther, I mean, I have a tough time seeing either of them lose it. Yeah.

And I think that the idea is, because I mean, I so badly want to go into WrestleMania with this idea that, okay, Gunther's had a long title reign. Clearly, this is where John wins the title and gets the record. And he doesn't. Gunther beats him.

And it's like, to me, that moment, and that's why you can do it on night one, because you can have a hero's thing on night two. night one, you can have your villainous, you know, I can't believe it. What do you mean, John Cena didn't? Sure. We were all here to celebrate John Cena. And so I just, if anybody is going to spoil it for John Cena at WrestleMania, I want it to be Gunther.

I can see a situation where neither of the current champions, Cody or Gunther, are still the champion by Russellmania 41. What if Randy at some point between now and then beats Cody? It's possible, because I think that's coming after Kevin. I think so too, which then sets up perhaps a rematch or. or a bigger story with Heel Randy versus very big baby face Cody at WrestleMania 41. Okay, so now you've got WrestleMania 41 is potentially whatever Sina's going to do. You could still do Rock Roman. And now you're doing Randy and Cody with Cody fighting from underneath.

A lot of people are also conflating the whole idea of like, well, it has to be Sina versus Randy Orden. And I'm like, yes, that will happen at some point in time, but I think that's his last match. I agree. He's got a year. Yes. That's the thing about Sina is like, if he's got the year, we've got like little stories to tell, but we've also got this story over a year. Yeah, so we'll talk about that in a second. Right.

In terms, I like where your head's at here. And speculate wildly, TM is what we can do because we've got six months of time to work with. Yes. I mean, who knows? Maybe it'll be Bronberger versus Jacob Fetu for the world title. You know what I mean? Like, stranger things have happened. I think Tiffany Stratton's probably a champion. by then. Oh, absolutely. I think we got to get this podcast up quick

because I think Tiffany Stratton will be a champion soon. Yeah. Oh, you think this has happened at Crown Jewel? I think Crown Jewel or near Crown Jewel. Like, I could see...

I could see... Tiffany costing Naya, live wins. Yeah. Gets the Crown Jewel title. Yeah. And then Tiff jumps in and gets Naya's title.

The Crown Jewel title. Yeah, the Crown Jewel Championship. Everybody loves that championship. It's so big. It's such a big championship. That is certainly one of the words to describe it. Huge. It is large.

Yeah. Will it ever be defended? No. Will it ever be shown again? So, like, I'm thinking there's good, there has to be a big moment, right? There has to be the money shot of whoever wins the men's match or the women's match. They hold it up.

Look at this. I have this very large championship. It's humongous. It's huge. And apparently has 50 carrots. 50 carrots. Chote has told me that 100. hundred times. Fifty carrots.

Fragts. Crazy. You bought your wife a very nice. Each, by the way, each belt. You bought your wife a very nice engagement ring. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I also bought my wife a very nice, stunning engagement ring. I know how much the diamond inside that ring costs.

Yeah. 50 carrots? Not 50. My wife's ring is not 50. Carrots. You know how much 50 carrots of diamonds would cost? Yeah, about 50 times what I paid for it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars. Wow.

It's worth it. this belt does not it's 50 carrots of cubic zirconia no no no no no no no it's pure diamonds 50 of pure natural and not the not the new sort of computer diamonds forget those these are not lab grown diamonds no lab grown diamonds real diamonds mind from the diamond mines put on this beautiful luxurious fantastic like leon i or decaprio diamonds yes maybe we shouldn't be going i don't know we go that. Fantastic movie. Great movie. Biggest championship I've ever seen in my life. It is large. It's tall. It goes right up to like the chat.

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That's 10% off your order at Turtlebeach.com using that promo code, Insight. If we're to treat this like an actual championship, then if Cody or Gunther, when they win, one of them's gonna win. Yeah. They then come out on Raw or Smackdown with two titles. They're welcome to.

They don't have to. I don't think they will. They're welcome to. Like, if I would probably do it for like a flex, you know, just to be like, yeah, Look at what I got. But, like, no, they don't have to because also, you know, we never, Braun Stromen won the Green Ultimate Royal Rumble Championship.

Yeah. And that was just like, oh, cool, I'll just take this home. Sometimes it's just a prize, just a trophy. Kind of like the Andre the Giant Battle Royal. The cup. No, it's the giant statue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like the big trophy. Like the life size Andres.

Remember when Lashley held it up over his head? Yeah. It was sick. They made Baron Corbyn Carter around for a while. Yeah, that's, okay. This is not a real championship. This is just a prize. It's a prize.

It's a prize. And then next year will be competed for by completely different people. Correct. Correct. I mean, it's like a cup that you wear around your waist. Not like an athletic supporter. Not like a trophy cup. Yeah.

The Stanley Cup. Yeah. You're Canadian. You know about the Stanley Cup. I know all about it. When your team wins it, you get one full day. Right. Stanley Cup.

Right. And then they carted around to a bunch of dopey radio stations. Or they'll, like, drink out of it. Yeah. Throw it from, like, boat to boat. Right. Because, you know, half the NHL is Canadian. So they're having a good time with it. Bringing it up to Muscoca in Canada.

You got to. Taking it on their boat. Yeah. So let's talk about the John Cena retirement tour. All right. We've got... By the way, okay. Tiffany Stratton versus Charlotte at WrestleMania.

Okay. Charlotte wins the Rumble. Tiffany's the champion. Charlotte returns at the Rumble, wins the Rumble. Tiffany is the Smackdown. the WWE Women's Champion, Charlotte versus Tiffany. Do you know when Charlotte's coming back? Rumble.

Okay. That's my thing. Like surprise. Surprise entry. Yes. Okay. Maybe number one. Maybe number two, like Dad.

Maybe she comes out number two, like Dad, wins the whole thing, like 92. No one talks about how it's equally as difficult to win from number two as it is from number one. Well, you have a little less exhaustion because you've been, you can sit while number one is walking to the ring. You're sitting. You're catching your breath.

But number one is just standing in the ring waiting for you to come out. Standing takes more energy than sitting is my thing. So like you're sitting is really, it's like, oh, if I had that 30 seconds to sit. So they're sitting down in guerrilla position. Having some water. Just sitting there. Oh, it's my turn. That's it.

That's it. They got their little yoga app or whatever it is on with the ASMR sounds. That's how you relax. For sure. That's how you get ready for a Royal Rumble match. ASMR. Yeah. Let's talk about John Cena's retirement.

So we've got January all the way until December. He says 35 to 40 dates. Yes. That's not 35 to 40 matches. And I think that people have been conflating this. This is 35 to 40 appearances. There's going to be, I think probably every PLE in there. Yeah, I would imagine.

It's going to be a lot of Raws and Smackdowns. I think there's going to be some live events in there too. Yeah. And, you know, they do less live events now than they used to, or at least they have this year. I'm assuming that'll continue on into next year, which will mean the live events will be big. And maybe for like the international tour and stuff like that.

But yeah, I mean, I would imagine it's one of those things where he might go away for a month or two and then come back. It's like when he's there, he's there. And when he's gone, he might step over here for maybe one pay-per-view cycle. Yeah. But then he's back for the next one. I think we're going to see a lot more one-off matches, just like, John Sina's on Raw and he's wrestling so-and-so.

I don't know if we're going to get like the weeks-long or months-long build for every match. I mean, 35 to 40 dates is enough time to tell real stories. And there, I think they'll be... I'm not interested in the one-off matches to tell you the truth. I don't need the dream matches until the very end. I think there'll be two or three, maybe four big stories that are told. But man, I want to see a one-off.

John Sina versus brahm breaker on Raw. I want to see John Sina versus Dominic Mysterio on SmackDown. I just want to see it because. My thing is you have the opportunity to not only have these matches, but you can pick the matches and you can really make them matter by telling these stories. Because it's also like a one-off. It's like if we're building to something, if they're one-off matches that you do early in the year,

John kind of has to win most of them. He can't just be losing again. That's what John Cena does. Right, he wins a lot. Yeah. So if the purpose of him coming back for a year is just to go through the whole roster, we don't really come out on the back end looking better necessarily,

as opposed to like telling these stories. Because for me, since you're doing a year, it's like take advantage of the year. I would love to see the first, maybe the first raw on Netflix, maybe that's where John comes back and you do have a one-off. There's room for one-offs, too. It's not because you're right. But like, have your one-off and go like, okay, we've seen a John, seen a match.

Now let's start building to the Rumble. I'm going to win the Rumble. I'm going to win the Rumble. I didn't win the Rumble. Right. Okay, well, now I'm going to work towards the elimination chamber. Maybe aren't you there, have a match here, have a match there. But the next big one's the elimination chamber.

Now you get to Ressomania, right? And you're building a Ressomania, and you might have a match here, a match there. But what you're doing is building two, WrestleMania. And then you don't get the job done at WrestleMania. And so now you've got to figure out, well, I'm John Sina in the last year of my career. Has the game passed me by? Am I not going to beat this record? And then maybe towards the summer is when you beat the record. And you have John Sina on a world title run. And maybe when Sina's on a world title run, that's where you can kind of open it up a little bit for more matches. Maybe he does for the World Heavyweight

championship the same thing he did for the U.S. championship, where he's like, nope, I'm going to defend this against everybody. And on Raw, you're going to see me defending it against, maybe it's Brown Breaker, maybe it's Dominic, whatever. You know, on Smackdown, maybe you'll see me defending it against this person. And then maybe you can lose it towards the, you know, latter part of the autumn. So he has a good, you know, whatever. Maybe he builds up over the summer, maybe wins it around SummerSlam. That's the beginning of all. Maybe even before that, maybe money in the bank he wins it. So you're convinced that John Cena breaks the record.

I am. 17-time champion. I think he'll win the title. I don't think he'll do it at WrestleMania because I think he wants there to be some doubt. He may even win the money in the bank and then cash in to win the title. That'd be very interesting.

Very interesting. Like he looks at that money in the bank show as his last shot. He's probably not going to get another opportunity. Maybe he loses a couple matches. And he goes, well, I've lost. I got an opportunity. I lost the opportunity.

Then I got beat by Brumberg. breaker. Then I got beat by this guy. Now you can put some people over. And he goes, I got to win money in the bank. Wins money in the bank. Wins the world heavyweight title. Goes on a run. Eventually loses the title, say, around now, right? Late October. And then from late October into November and December, that's when we as fans go, oh my God, this is coming to an end. I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it. You go, oh my God, this is coming to an end. Like, this has been so fun this year because we've seen all these stories, all these bills, all this, all that, no heel turn. I think that's a ridiculous premise. No heel turn. Nobody wants it. It wouldn't work.

It'd be three months long. It'd be dumb. No heel turn. Maybe you hint at it and it doesn't happen. It's too far gone. It's too far gone. That should have happened 12 years ago. And his legacy is now, he never turned heel. That's the legacy. And that's a good legacy. Yeah. And people appreciate that now, I think maybe they didn't at the time, but now it's like, we love our John Cena the way he is. Yeah. And I think you'll have this great two months where we're appreciating the year that he's given us. We're appreciating his entire career. And that's when he starts going through some of the greatest hits.

Maybe that's when you see some people return just to be a part of it. Maybe that's when you see some people that, you know, before we run out of time, we can see that match. And then we get to December, whether it's a PLE, maybe it's John Cena's own PLE. John Cena gets his own PLE in December. And it's all about just a tribute to him. And that's where the main event is Sina and Randy. And Sina loses. And Sina loses.

Of course. Yeah. This feels to me like... It's a movie. It's a movie. This feels to me like when Kobe Bryant had his final season, when Derek Jeter had his final season, where they go to the opposing teams arena or stadium. And there's a presentation of, like,

like, oh, this is going to be your last time in Brooklyn or Nashville or Chicago or Boston, whatever happens to be. When those tickets get announced, they're all going to sell out. Right, because they can be announced as last Royal Rumble, last elimination chamber, last time in Texas, last time in Canada, last time in the UK. Yeah, last show. And by the way, Boston Garden, TD Bank Center, you know, whatever. Of course.

Sina, Orton, Boston, Sina loses, last match. John Cena's retirement feels like one of the true retirements in wrestling history. Because we've seen a lot of wrestling retirements, right? A lot. Where they come back a year later, two years later, 10 years later, whatever happens to be. Sometimes if you're Mick Foley 30 days later. Sure. I think this one is, like, John Cena is such a man of his word.

He is. That he'll make plenty of other appearances. And it sounds like he's going to be with WWE forever. making appearances and cutting promos and doing other things. But I think in terms of his matches, like, this is it. I kind of believe that too. And I think that it's, I mean, he's done all this. He's been thoughtful about it.

He talked about it in interviews and stuff before. Yeah. Like acknowledging I got a limited time left. I'm not doing this. He talked about it with me in our interview. And then it was just a few months later, showed up at money in the bank in Toronto and announced it. Yeah, and I think that he's also been very transparent about the fact that, like, no tricks. I'm not going to say WrestleMania is my last match, and then, oh, there's more.

This will be my last WrestleMania. Yeah. Then I'm going to do this. Then I'm going to do this. I'm going to do 35, 40 dates. I'm going to, and I'm not leaving WWE. I've signed a long-term deal. I'm still going to be around.

I'm still going to be doing stuff. Yeah. But I will not wrestle anymore. The bar is set so high for that final exchange before he gets pinned. I agree with you. He's going to go out on his back. He's going to lose. How are you ever going to top the Sean Michaels Rick Flair?

I'm sorry, I love you. Because there's going to have to be something on that level for this. Yeah, it's almost like, it's almost like, I would assume Randy's going to turn heel soon. That's, you know, watching the show. I think he's going to turn heel on Cody at some point. And he's a brilliant heel. Brilliant heel. But I almost feel like keep him a heel for a year.

and then once he beats Sina, nobody's booing Randy. Right. It's too, like this, it's too perfect of a story. Yeah. So I think that's when Randy gets a baby face run after that.

I feel like that is, because I think, you know, he beats Sina and there's an embrace. Because it's just like, talk about two guys that are synonymous with each other's careers. Like I almost wish,

I mean, not almost, I wish Edge could come back for one more match in WWE, just to be a part of this SENA retirement tour. You know what I mean? Because that's the other one that you associate for that era with Sina.

But yeah, I mean, in my mind, I feel like it's Randy Orton, but also on the way, on the way there, maybe there is a story to tell that gets us to December where we're like, oh, no. It's not Randy because it's not about this full circle thing. it's this guy who throughout this whole year, either he's been a mentor or he is the Sean Michaels. Because Randy Orton's not the Sean Michaels to Sena's Rick Flair. They're more peers, but Randy and Sina, whereas Sean took more of the mentee role. You know, he grew up idolizing this guy.

So maybe there is somebody that you're able to tell a story over the course of a year that ends up retiring John Sina reluctantly. Maybe that's too on the nose. Maybe that's too much. Yeah. Like Sean and Rick, I still kind of feel like Randy is the natural, but... It's hard to disagree with that. Yeah.

I just, fingers crossed, knock on wood, like, there is so much pressure on John Cena to stay healthy. Yeah. And to not get injured. And he's generally been good about that. Absolutely. He hasn't had a lot of injuries, but he's had some. And accidents happen. And he's, you know, he's not 28.

He's not 32. You know what I mean? He's not bodies are bodies. Yeah. So, yeah, you hope so. I also wonder when he says, I'm not done with WWE, do you think, like in my mind, I start looking at Tom Brady on the NFL and go like,

oh, what if John Cena is that first super duper high profile? Well, maybe not first, because Bruno San Martino was a broadcaster too. But it's been a long time since we had like a super duper a-lister that goes into the broadcast booth for wrestling. I don't think that John Cena is going to be there 52 weeks a year to call Raw or SmackDown. I think that he'll be signed to whatever version of a Legends deal that he gets, which means appearances, which means going to the PC and helping out and answering questions and helping

that next generation. It's making appearances at, you know, like the one-off at Money in the Bank last year in London. That's what I think it is. It's possible. You're not, definitely possible. I just feel like... His passion is still in telling stories and movies. Correct.

And I agree with you. I don't think he's here 52 weeks a year. But at the same time, I do think that especially in this era, I think experiments have been done by using Big E more in this role. It's a very high-profile superstar who can't wrestle right now. But we put a microphone in front of him, and he's a very compelling broadcaster.

CNN Punk was injured. and it's like he can't wrestle right now, but he's as popular as it gets, and he's very compelling when he's talking about wrestling. So I just think that you're right. It might not be play-by-play, unless it's special appearance play-by-play, unless it's certain countdown shows

that, like, for the WrestleMania countdown show, John Cena's going to host, or as a special analyst that we go to to break something down or something like that. I just feel like when you look at sports and what they've done, especially in like the, NFL with like, well, they're done for all sports, really, but like when you look at a high profile

quarterback, like Tom Brady, who's got this amazing insight into what he's watching, you know, I mean, who better, who would you trust more than John Sina to break down for you what's going on in the ring? I feel like John Sina post-retirement's going to be a lever that W.W.E. pulls. Like, you don't want to miss Royal Rumble because John Sina will be making an appearance. What's he going to be doing? He's going to be entering the match? Is he going to be cutting a promo?

I have to watch to find out. It's maybe just him in a host type of role. Could be a host. That's where I see this going. But who knows? I'm just glad we got him. He's the man, dude. He's the best.

He's the best. You talk to him. You just feel like you can conquer the world. Every time I leave an interview with John Cena, I'm like, if I could just be like 1% of what he is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like just a little bit more personable. a little bit more present.

He's just, he's the best. You're scrolling through Instagram being like, oh, why he's doing that? Why is he doing that? I should be doing that. Wait a minute. What did John Cena say? Comparison is the The Thieves of Joy.

It's happening right now. He was right. Raw Netflix. Oh, I can't wait. How different do you think it's going to look? Look in like the visual sense? No, I don't think that the visual is going to be that much different, but this is not a PG product anymore.

No, but I also don't think it's, you know, here's the thing. It is a family product. And I think there is a lot of value in WWE being a family product. And I think that, and maybe it's because I have kids and my seven-year-old is like super into wrestling. And like, there is some stuff that we can enjoy together. And there's other stuff that I can't show them. And it kind of bums me out that I can't show them some of the other stuff, you know? I think that there is a way to tell stories that don't insult the intelligence of people like us,

but make it so it's not uncomfortable to bring your kids to. I don't think that the answer is, when we're on Netflix now, let's do way more cursing, let's do nudity, let's do more blood. Like, I don't think wrestling was ever missing that edge. I don't think wrestling was like, you know what wrestling needs, profanity and blood. No, wrestling needs compelling stories. Yeah. That's all.

And if within those compelling stories, some profanity slips out, that's fine. That's part of the story. If within these compelling stories, we get some blood, we should. Like, we shouldn't have blocks on anything when it comes to, and we go back to Drew and punk. Like, to not have blood in that hell in a cell match would have been insane. It would have insulted us who are watching this story. But I think what you'll have on Netflix is, maybe a little more leniency in the timing of the way you tell stories,

and in those specific moments, not this thing of like, oh, we better clear this with this network. Like, there's no reason for network clearance. None. But, and this is the same thing people said when, like, Howard Stern and other big radio shows were going over to Sirius XM, it still requires a certain, discipline to put on a show, right? It requires a certain discipline to put on a show that a lot of

people can watch and enjoy and that isn't just insanity for the sake of insanity that is still like the emphasis, we're not like, oh, well, since we can do this now, let's do this. If it is required for and benefits the story to a great degree, awesome. But I'm not sitting there watching Raw or Smackdown right now. I'm not sitting there watching the bloodline story. I'm not sitting there watching Cody try to finish his story. I'm not sitting there watching any of the storylines that have enthralled us and said, man, if only there was more profanity in blood. Like you're not, you're not missing it because you've got the stories. Last year, as we get further and further away from it, it becomes more and more apparent to me that it was probably the best

WrestleMania main event of all time. Probably. Still, who knows, but probably. That is a bold statement. It was probably the best. I've been fortunate enough to be at a bunch of WrestleMania's. I've seen them all. The feelings, maybe you can go back to Hogan, Andre, but the feelings that I felt at the end of WrestleMania 40 were like, this is magic. This is what if WrestleMania 18 was Rock Hogan for the main event. That's why I said main event. Yeah. Would you feel the same way? Who knows? Who knows? Who knows? Yeah. Totally different deal. How many of Rasselmanians have you been to?

Oh, are we in a missing contest now? Yeah, we are. Just for a little brief aside here. No, that's fine. 20. Okay. 24. Okay.

And then the run starts 29, 29, 39, 39, 30, 31, 32, 31, 32, 32, 33, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 35, 36, 37, 37, or no, 36, 37, 37, or no, 38, 39, 40. So 12. I've got you beat. Wow. Yeah, but you know what? Uh-oh. How many of these do you got?

All access? These are laminets. Yeah, you work there. I'm 18, 27. That's also, by the way, you go into 18. Even if you didn't have me beat by, like, number. Yeah. Being in the crowd for 18, that's a lot of points.

I almost sold my time. ticket to a scalper as we were walking into the building. For an extra like 200 bucks that really you would have been thankful for that 200. 18 years old. Yeah. I'm a first year college student. My ticket was $135 Canadian. That is a lot of beer, my friend.

Yeah. So we were while. But 135 Canadian is like 15 bucks in the stage, right? Stop it. Yeah. The beer is being purchased in Canadian dollars. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Sorry. We were like, I don't know, because when you looked at the, hard and it was that weird awkward time of like WCW had just been bought and a lot of the WCW characters hadn't been built up in WWF yet and there was it was a weird time rock Hogan was the match I was most excited about but there was a lot of matches on that car where you're like I don't know and also it didn't become rock Hogan until it was in the ring that's right like that rock versus Hollywood Hogan was never the match it was always rock versus Hulk Hogan and the audience turned it into that.

Yeah. And even the build-up, like, I'm away the Smackdown on his candy ass, NW-style. Where's Hot Dog? I heard him like.

Hot-dog over there. He got so mad because he's a kid. You know, how old were you in WrestleMania 18? 2002. 10. He was like 10 years old, right?

And he's at home. He told me that when Hogan put the rock in the ambulance and then crushed it with a truck, he got so mad. But he thought he was smart. he was like, I'm going to stop watching because I'm going to prove to them

that this type of stuff doesn't get ratings because he was mad that the rock got smashed in the ambulance. So I'm 18, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 33, 34, 35. No one went to 36, 37, 38, 39, 40. Oh, you got me by one? I got your V-5-1.

And that's because I wasn't at 37. Otherwise, we'd be tied. I was sitting next to cardboard cutouts. at 37. That would have been a fun one to go. Now, were you there when they, when it, like, the hurricane came in? I was there on night two. Oh, wait, was, no, I wasn't there on Rangelade. So maybe that was night one then. Like, wait, I don't remember. So, so, you were there for Samoa Joe in a poncho day? I was there when Hogan came out with Titus O'Neill and got as a pirate. Yes. It was like crazy. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to go with some one-offs here.

I like it. What do you? What is the thing? What is. think's the best heel turn of all time. Okay, so, best heel turn of all time for a long time was Hogan. Best of all time, Hogan, even though Bobby Hennon spoiled it. Whose side is he on?

What? What do you mean? I hadn't even thought of that before you said that. Hogan dropping the leg was, for a long time, undeniably, the biggest heel turn of all time, in my opinion. How could something possibly be bigger than this?

It was the pan out the night after SummerSlam, or the Smackdown after SummerSlam when Paul Heyman is sitting next to Roman Reigns. The reveal of Paul Heyman sitting next to Roman reigns, the biggest, most important heel turn of all time. That one singular moment created the character that is now the most compelling character in the entire industry

and has been for over four years now. You could say, well, and it changed wrestling forever. You could say Hogan's heel turn also changed wrestling forever, and that's true. The NWO didn't get four years. It wasn't, they weren't able to maintain for four years. And every time somebody has said, the bloodline is stale.

I say, let him cook. And what happens? A little bit of time, let them cook. Nobody today can honestly say that the bloodline is stale. They pick it right back up. And it's changed the way stories are told in general. Drew McIntyre has said that one of the reasons why he's been able to tell this story with CM Punk, and it's been so compelling and it's been so long-term and it's been nuanced

is because of what Paul Heyman and Roman Reins and the Bloodline did. They changed it for everybody. They brought this cinema that, you know, people say. It changed everything forever. It changed everything for the better. And people can say whatever they want about Roman Raines going through the whole roster. Everybody that touched the bloodline was and is now better for being associated with the bloodline win or lose. and Roman went from this guy who all of us had lost faith in.

He's not the guy to being like, yes, I am. And in one moment, it was like, oh my. And by the way, it was one moment where there weren't even any fans in the building. This is pandemic era. And still, that pan out. And Paul Heyman is sitting next to Roman Raines, oh, I got goosebumps again. You couldn't turn it off. I said, yeah, yeah.

And I've, yeah. It changed the whole trajectory of Roman Rain's career. It changed the whole trajectory of professional wrestling. It did. And if Roman, if they still continued to try to do what they were doing with Roman pre-pandemic, and then this is crazy to say that 2020 and the world being shut down was probably the best thing to happen to Roman Rain's career. And it was actually John Cena that pointed this out in one of our interviews because he's like, they were able to put him out there.

crowd wasn't able to boo him when he's supposed to be a good guy or cheer him when he's supposed to be a bad guy. They just let him do his thing. Yes. And he was able to speak quietly, methodically, with purpose. Yes. And that still holds true today. I mean, you have to go back. And even at bad blood, when Jimmy Uso comes in and interferes on Roman's behalf, they put out the WWE, which was brilliant, put out on social, this reel where it was subtitled, what Roman was saying in the ring. He wasn't singing into a mic. Yes. You're just looking at Jimmy and saying, you did this?

Yeah. You called the play and embraces Jimmy because Jimmy called the play. Two years ago, Roman looked at Jimmy and said, you're calling plays now? You're calling the play? You want my job? You want to be the tribal chief? And we see, like, in this moment, this little nuanced moment that you may have even missed, that's the subtle switch in this Roman Raines character.

That's the lesson that Roman Raines has learned since losing at WrestleMania is that, yeah, like, you have to value the people around you. And you have to understand that just because you're the tribal chief doesn't mean you call every play. And sometimes the reason you're keeping your family around you is because your family has value. and that's not something that the old tribal chief had. So, yeah. He's playing chess. He's playing chess.

Yeah. And that's only possible because of that moment. So for me, 2020, the Friday after Summer Slam, the pan out, Roman rains is sitting next to Paul Heyman. The Impossible happens. Boom. That's it. That's it.

You've made a compelling case for it. That's for sure. Thank you. What's the best return of all time? Okay. So this is a tougher one because there are a lot of good ones, right? I think Brock Lesnar returning, the first return, like, you know, after all those years after the UFC was awesome confronting John Cena after the first rock match. Shane McMahon's return in that Stephanie's segment was unbelievable.

And I love that that was highlighted in the Netflix docu series because I was like, I remember it being big of the time, but rewatching it and having them talk about it made me go, oh, yeah. Yeah. And it was no one's talking about it. coming. No one. That guy's never coming back to WW. Yeah. So that was huge. John Cena coming back at the Royal Rumble. 2008. Amazing. And then he wins. Yeah.

Awesome. Man. Because again, no one expected him to be there. Right. He was supposed to be out for another eight months or something. Yeah. And he rehabbed in three. Yeah. Yes. And Super Cina was born. Fracey. But I have two, though.

One is something we talked about last time. we were here. Cody Rhodes returning at WrestleMania 38. And I don't want to get too recency bias with all these questions. But to me, I stand by this. We talked about it.

Cody Rhodes return at WrestleMania 38 was the moment that this era started. I mean, that return will, after like several years from now, I'll probably be able to confidently say that's the best return. But for now, and maybe it's because this is one I was in the building for,

Triple H returning after his quad surgery to me was it's the loudest I've ever heard Madison Square Garden and Madison Square Garden gets loud is this moment of acceptance from the audience where Triple H went through this whole attitude era where Austin's there and the Rock's there and the Undertaker's there and Cain's there and McFoley's there

and everybody's there and he comes in as this mid-Garter and Sean Michaels is there everybody and he's scratching and clawing and just putting the work in to get on top. And finally, he leaves as a heel. But people knew that he tore his quad, rolled up like a, like a shutter, and finished the match anyway, got helped out. Bono saying a beautiful day for him in all those packages. We watched him, and we learned this story of this guy.

who just had this insatiable appetite for professional wrestling and being the best at it. And when they announced he was going to return on Raw, and they said, and then I'll never forget, raw went all the way until like, you know, almost the end of the show. When we come back, Triple H returns, and everybody went, this is it.

And it was just like, boom, boom, time to play the game. And he came out in a leather vest over the denim jacket. And like, he hadn't done anything. anything. Last time he was on television, he was a heel. He had done nothing. But the crowd was so ready to see him again that he was an instant baby face. And in that moment, the crowd put the crown on him and said, you're the most important guy. You're the guy we want to see. This is you, this is your time now. You've been asking for your time. You've been demanding this is my time. You've had T-shirts to say it's my time. We're giving it to you now. It's in your song.

Yes. We're giving it to you now. it's your time. And he looked like a million bucks. A million bucks. And like whether that run panned out exactly properly or not, it leads to WrestleMania and whether that should have been in the main event, it gets murky. But in that moment, in that return moment, it was absolutely magical. And all he does is get to the ring and announce he's going to be in the rumble.

He doesn't wrestle. Yeah. That's it. And it's just like, it's on. It's go time. I love that AAA return. It's so loud. Sometimes I'll just watch it back just to hear the crowd reaction.

Yeah. It's so fun to just watch back and hear that connection get made. And in unison, all of us decide without talking to each other, but we're just all on that same wavelength. Yeah. You're the man. I think that CM Punk making his return to wrestling. Oh, oh, just period, right?

Because I actually, I think you can make a strong argument that his return to wrestling, his debut in AEW, is actually bigger than him returning to WW. Because you've got to think about the time that we were at in the world. Everything had been shut down for over a year at this point. This is one of the first fully attended full capacity shows in the United States. True. People are still wearing masks in the audience, right? That famous shot of the guy crying has the mask around his chin. His chin diaper.

Nobody thought that CM Punk was ever going to wrestle again. Somehow there's a conversation with him and Tony Kahn of like, what would it take? What does this look like for you? And not unlike what you're talking about with the Triple H return, they basically said without saying like, you better tune in. Hey, we got the United Center for a reason.

Yeah, the first dance. Because if CM Punk doesn't have that conversation with Tony Kahn and doesn't go to AEW. What we have right now in WWE doesn't exist. Unlikely. Very unlikely. And so now you want to go the first dance or Survivor Series, right?

Those are the two Sienpong. And I think the first dance is bigger just because of that moment kind of went, we're done with social distancing and we're done with being in our houses and not being able to leave. Like the world finally feels open again and then boom, this guy who we never thought would wrestle again

is back after seven years, that place erupted. It was in that moment, I think, bigger than wrestling. It was a moment where we went, I just want to be able to just let all of this frustration out. And they got the music, and you're like, yeah, you lose it. Yeah. They open the show with it. Yeah, and that's the right.

That was, yeah. And it's almost like, okay, rumors are rumors. but now that I hear that music and that guy is back in a wrestling ring on my television, anything's possible. That's what it felt like. Yeah, that's a pretty good call. That might be, because it was massive

when he came back at Survivor Series because you never thought he would be in WWE again, but it was more possible that he would be in WWE from our perspective as a fan. Yeah. Because we had seen him wrestle. Right.

And we knew that regardless of if he left on good terms or bad terms, clearly there were many matches that he liked what he was doing. He had a fire for wrestling again. He was having great matches. He was telling stories. Yeah, maybe that last,

the first dance is bigger. I don't know. This is the great thing about wrestling. Yeah. It's all subjective. There are some opinions that I'll go, you're not entitled to that opinion. It's terrible opinion.

It's stupid. It's uninformed. It makes no sense. This idea that everybody's entitled to an opinion. is not true. But that opinion... That's just a thing like a thing

that people say to be nice. Yeah, but it's... Look, you're entitled to your opinion. But it's not based on any... It's totally wrong. But... Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

But this one, I'll go... Yeah. Yeah, I can swing that one. I can swing this... I like the conversation. I like the conversation too. And the Triple H moment's huge. I think for me,

a really big moment's the John Cena Royal Rumble. because I'm a huge fan of the surprise returns. Yes. And I think for me, that adds an extra layer of like, nobody saw this coming. Right. Which is why you could then make a case that the Survivor series return for CM Punk maybe is bigger because... Total shot. Yeah, there were whispers and rumors, but it seems so far-fetched.

Yeah. Whereas when at the last dance, first dance... First dance. First dance. At the first dance, when he makes the AEW debut, it's like, this had been hinted at so heavily. Yeah. Like if it wasn't going to happen, it would have been a big L.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, that's why John Cena 2008 Royal Rumble's way up there. And like the cut to Triple H's face where he can't believe what he's seeing. Yeah. Brilliant. I think it's too many people, not you, but I think like too many people in general,

generalize whether they like surprise returns or not surprise returns. Why can't this be a surprise return? Why can't that be a surprise return? It goes back to the exact same argument I had about like the attitude era. What is conducive to the story that we're telling? I think CM Punk's return to AEW should not have been a surprise because we're trying to get people to tune into a television show, right? This is like this is what the show is.

This is why you're watching. It's a new show. We got him. You got to see this. All right, I'll tune in. Survivor Series was a little bit different because you had all this other stuff going on and oh my God,

CM Punk's at the very, very, very end, I got to watch Monday Night Raw. It still works. I think the Sina comeback should have been a surprise because it's like three months and he's back like this is insane. The Shane O'Mac return should have been a surprise

because we never thought he was going to be back. But then there are other returns. Brockless is in the same way. We never thought he was going to be back. Should have been a surprise. But then there are like the Cody return at WrestleMania. So much better to have people speculating. I think it's going to be Cody Rhodes.

Could you even imagine? Probably not. There must be a swerve. Can't really be Cody Rhodes. If it is Cody Rhodes, does he get to keep his music? Is he still the American nightmare? Does he still have the logo? It's tattooed on his neck.

How is they going to get it off him? Like, you know, all that stuff. I think that surprises and not surprises should be a judge based on the context. of what's going on. Give you one more. All right. Who's the most underrated wrestler, in your opinion? Of all time?

Of all time. People are going to think I'm messing around, but I'm not messing around. Oh, my, okay. Doink. What are you talking about? 1990. Look, these pictures right there.

See that phone right there? Under the DX thing. Ninety-three, end of 92 to end of 93, Matt born as Doink the Clown is some of the most brilliant character work that you will ever see in professional wrestling and it was happening at a time

where some of the dumbest character work that you will ever see in professional wrestling was the norm. I mean, this gets lumped in because he's a clown with we're doing kids cartoon stuff. But I mean, Tim Curry's portrayal of Pennywise in it is not better, is not better than Matt born as Doink the clown.

This gets lumped in with the goon and the gobbly gook. Unfair. All the time. Ridiculous. Ridiculous comparison. That's one. If your opinion is, Doink 92, 93 is equivalent to the goon. I go, you're not entitled.

I would never talk about wrestling with you. You're not entitled to an opinion. We're not on the same level of speaking. Like, you don't know. You're an ignorant person, not you. Somebody who would say that. Of course. Because you're right.

It does get lumped in. and it's absurd. But, I mean, just the things he would do to his face, the way he would walk, his motivations, and then he'd get in there, and he'd do all this, like, catch-as-catch-can, like amateur wrestling, but he would do it in ways where he was trying to, like,

really cause pain. He was trying to hurt his opponent. He would twist a leg in a way that it's like, oh, you don't just want to win. You want to cause pain. There's a real evil. There's a real venom to you. when Doinke becomes a baby face,

when Ray Apollo starts playing them, when we got Dink. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about Doink the Clown, 1992, going into 1993, talking about WrestleMania 9 with Crush. I'm talking about King of the Ring qualifiers with Mr. Perfect.

I'm talking about that Doink the Clown. You go back and I could do a whole podcast, just chronicling the story of the first year. I'm only talking about the first year of Dointhe Clown. But it is by far the most underrated

performance of a wrestler. I mean, I can't think of anybody that's more underrated than that first year, Dointh the Clown. It feels like it was too early. Ahead of his time. It feels like it was way ahead of its time

because what you were describing there sounds like early mankind. Like that same vein. And this character, this Mankind character, I loved Mankind. Original Mankind, what he developed into.

But it could have been, I mean, hideous. This could have been a terrible character. Made no sense. But Mick Foley turning it into what he turned it into, like with the vignettes, and then he comes out, and he's got the music to come in, he's got the different music to leave to.

He's like, yeah, he's got a lore and a history behind why his fingers are like this. He's got motivation. He's pulling out his hair. He's committing to everything by shaving the holes in his head. Like, yeah, no, original,

mankind is underrated ahead of his time. But Mick Foley is like, you know, he's such like a lovable uncle now that people forget. Like WCW and ECW and ECW and Japan, Cactus Jack, original mankind, even corporate mankind, all this stuff is so brilliant. The fact that Mick Foley could do those interviews with JR.

and stay in character but be out of K-fabe but still be K-fabe is utterly brilliant and you know how brilliant it is because they tried it with other people and nobody could pull it off the way McFaulley pulled it off

and his character was so out of the realm of human possibility like it was such a ridiculous premise that he was still able to make you believe this is a real guy who like ate worms to try to get girls' attention that did, I mean, I love mankind I feel like we need to do this far more often than every six months.

Way more often. This was so much fun. I'm glad we did it. Are you ever on the West Coast? I mean, here and there, if I ever am. You'll have to join me in the Insight Studio. We'll go to the Insight Studio. It'll be great.

Will you put an AdSams sign in there since I put Insight Signs in here? I guess I'll have to. Yeah, I think so. I think so. It feels like that's just the hospitable thing to do. Yeah. But I will wrap this up in the same way that I do every interview. And again, thank you for allowing me.

me to come in here. Thank you for coming here. Thank you for making this destination. Your wife makes wonderful chocolate chip cookies. Not according to MJF, but go on. That's the worst. He's a bad guy. He is terrible. The rude guy. What are three things that you're grateful for? Last time I remember it was my tribal chief. So, I mean, I would say I'm grateful for my family. I'm grateful for the incredibly fortunate

route my professional life has somehow taken and I'm grateful for the awareness that Dominic Mysterio has brought to chicken tendies on a week to week basis and the fact that ranch is the condiment for chicken tendies

he blew me away when he said that there's nothing to be blown away about it. Of course that's the thing. It's barbecue sauce. No, for a nugget it's barbecue sauce. For a 10 it's ranch. They're the same thing. I would never have let you in my house. They're just different shapes.

They're not the same thing at all. Is a boneless chicken wing the same thing as a tender? Or a nugget. It's three different products. So let me ask you that this is going to be real controversial. And by the way, those are probably, you know what? Strike everything I said about my family. The three things I'm grateful for are boneless wings, chicken tendies, and chicken nuggets.

I love those foods. Three wonderful things. They're the best. They're my three favorite food groups. I think they might be the same group. I don't think so. This is going to be controversial. Is a boneless wing a wing?

Yeah, of course. What? It's just a different type of wing. No. A boneless wing is just a nugget. Stop. No, it's not. It's not a wing.

A wing has bones in it yet. Eat it like this. I mean, you're trapped in this box that society has put around you, this structure that doesn't exist. I mean, if somebody gives me boneless wings, and they're like, enjoy your chicken nuggets. I go, it's not what I ordered.

But just because you call it a wing doesn't mean it's a wing. No, no, no, no, no, no. They didn't debone the wings and handed to you. No, a boneless... They just took a shape of a chicken, breaded it. Incorrect. You're showing your ignorance. A boneless wing is a...

It's a more robust. Like, the meat is more robust. A chicken nugget is a little flatter. Sure. The wing, the boneless wing is more robust. A chicken nugget has more of a... a flat, lighter breading. It's almost...

A boneless wing has a heavier, crispier breading. I will give you that. And that's to put up with being doused in souse. Souse! That's right. I'll give you that. But a boneless wing,

you would think, oh, they've just deboned my wing. Great. I wouldn't think that. I'm not Canadian. Bownless wing. It's in the name. It's a product.

It's a different food. If I'm like, what do I want tonight? Wings are boneless wings. It's two different things. Sometimes I get wings. Sometimes I get boneless wings. Yeah, two different things. Two different things.

So that's like saying, would you like a beef burger or would you like a veggie burger? Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Almond milk. They really squeezing the udders on that almond? I've got nipples, Greg. Can you milk me? Yes.

I mean, if you gave almonds can make milk, then boneless wings can be wings. You take the teat of the almond. I think that's where we need to wrap it. Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. Oh, man, thank you again. Thank you, man. Okay, there we go. It'll be interesting to see how many of those predictions actually come true, if any, I think.

I don't know. I feel like both of us are pretty spot on with calling somebody. Like, I think it'll be barring any sort of injuries. When we're talking about the Randy, Orton, John Cena match, I feel like that's going to be the way that this ends. But again, the bar is set so high with Rick Flair and Sean Michaels. How can you create a moment that's that big but also like feels like it exists on its own? I'm sorry, I love you. I don't know.

We're going to have to see. And also, WrestleMania 41, there's so many possibilities when you think about all of the different potential matches and superstars. Like, when you think about WrestleMania 41, you're going to have raw. probably involved. Roman, Randy, Cody, punk, Rollins. Then the list goes on and on and on. How many main events can we have here? It's crazy. So it'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Snap a screenshot. Tag us. He's at Not Sam. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And this isn't a quote per se, but it's something I saw on social media. I just want to share with you. I guess it's a quote. But I love this little anecdote, not because this is more of an anecdote. Let candy corn be your reminder that no matter

how many people don't like you, there are people out there who will literally love you for the exact reasons that you were rejected by others. You are someone's candy corn, and that's meant in a derogatory way. Like, oh, I don't like candy corn. But you are also someone's candy corn. Like, oh, man, I love candy corn. So I figured with, in the spirit of Halloween being today as this episode's released, man, what a perfect little anecdote to share. Be great, be grateful. Go listen to Sam Roberts podcast, not Sam wrestling, since this episode is done. And you are a real, real one for being here and listening all the way until the end. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got Ask CVV number 55 coming up tomorrow. Send in your questions. Leave a comment on Spotify for that.

and we will see you back here tomorrow on that one. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media

about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What should be? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.