Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Zach Gowen Got DESTROYED By Brock Lesnar, Wrestling Vince McMahon, Beating Addiction

Episode Date: November 23, 2023

Zach Gowen (@zachgowen) is a professional wrestler and motivational speaker known for his time in WWE and IMPACT Wrestling. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to tell his inspirational story of losing his leg to cancer at age 8, becoming the first one-legged WWE Superstar when he was 19-years old, making his debut with Hulk Hogan, Rowdy Roddy Piper and Shawn O'Hare, feuding with Vince McMahon, getting beat up by Brock Lesnar in front of his mom, having Brock Lesnar push him down the stairs, his battle with drug addiction and how he beat it, being a father of 4, sharing his story as a motivational speaker to students around the country and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: "Life isn't about what happens to you, it's about how you react to what happens to you" - Epictetus Sponsors: FITBOD: Get 25% off when you use the code INSIGHT at http://fitbod.me/INSIGHT ZBIOTICS: Get 15% off with the code CVV and have a better morning after you drink at http://zbiotics.com/cvv MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 15% For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are go. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Bleas! Oh, baby, so good to see you here. Welcome back to another audio adventure on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet, and in what feels like a never-ending sea of wrestling podcasts, thank you for being here.

Thank you for choosing this one. And thank you for making Insight, one of the top wrestling podcasts on the planet. I appreciate you. And happy Thanksgiving if you happen to be in the U.S. Happy belated Thanksgiving if you happen to be in another part of the world that had Thanksgiving last month. You know, I'm Canadian. So when I mentioned to people that, oh, yeah, we had Thanksgiving in October, my friends here in the States are like, what do you mean? There's a Thanksgiving in October. It's just crazy. It's like, it blows their mind. But happy Thanksgiving

in general, and I'm feeling extra grateful for you and for how much the show has grown this past year. And by you being here and listening to the show, you allow me to get to do this, to get to have these conversations with fascinating people for a living. So again, I just want to thank you for that. And I don't ask for a lot, but could I ask for a favor? I can't tell you how much it would change the course of the show if you just hit that follow button wherever you're listening right now. 75% of the people who listen to the show haven't hit follow yet. So if you happen to be one of them, please hit that follow button right now. It helps the show more than I could ever explain.

And the guests have already been great this year. I think you know that. But the bigger the show gets, the bigger the guests get. And that's all because of you. And we've got some pretty big ones lined up here. I don't know if I've got a huge one that we're working on securing a date for. I don't know if that's going to happen before the end of the year, but I would say early 2024, you're going to be like, oh my gosh, CVV got that person on the show? Wow. I can't even see them.

Maybe I've said too much here. My buddy, Zach Gowan with us today. And man, what a story he has from losing his leg to cancer at the age of eight to being signed at WWE at 19 years old. he was the first ever one-legged WWE superstar. He was in the ring with people like Hulk Hogan, Rowdy-Roddy Piper, John Sina, Brock Lesnar, Vince McMahon, Kurt Angle,

and so many others. And he was only in WWE for, we figured it out during this interview for 13 months. And yeah, worked with all those big names. After leaving WWE, he battled addiction. He recently celebrated being clean for over 5,000 days. and now he travels the world sharing his inspirational story. And there is a lot of inspiration in this episode here today.

You're going to love it. And if you feel so inclined, please snap a screenshot. Let us know you're listening and share this out. Tag us so we can share it as well. He's at Zach Gowan. It's just his name. I'm Ag Chris Van Vlead, also just my name. And here we go.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome. Zach Gowan. Good to see. man. Nice to see you as well, CBV. What are the odds that I was like, I sent you a text a few weeks ago and I'm like, man, I hope our paths cross again soon. Any chance you're in L.A., and you're like, actually, I'm going to be there a few weeks.

Man, we are in the studio. You are the, um, you just grow every time I see you. You know what I'm saying? Like, you just get bigger and bigger. You are the Joe Rogan of the pro wrestling podcast world. That is very kind. I don't know. Do you know that?

I don't know how true that is, but thank, thank you. Man, so congratulations on your hustle, the platforms, the views, the listens, the content. You are, I mean, you are just setting the bench, is that the right word? The marker very high for people to follow. You are, you are blazing that trail. Colcabandon did it first. He was the first wrestling podcast to get, you know, national worldwide attention. And you've taken what he's done and taken it to the next level.

and it's great to see, man. And I'm a big fan of yours. And I consider you a friend as well, so it's great to be here. Likewise. And you are an inspiration with everything you've done throughout your entire life.

I can't wait to dive into all this. But, man, I feel really lucky to be able to do this, to be able to just have conversations with interesting and inspiring people who are living their dream. And as a result of that, I get to then live my dream.

And then as a result of that, the people that work with me, that shoot these videos like Jeff over here who is engineering this, they get to live their dream. Right. It's the best. It's the best. So what's the secret? I think it's.

What did you do? Let me ask you this. Welcome to the Zach Gowan show. Is this insight with Zach Gowan? CBV. Let me ask you this. When you were first starting, and I think a lot of listeners probably dabble into the content creating and they want to get into the podcast space and all of that,

when you were first starting and the money wasn't there. Yeah. And you were investing in yourself, losing money, I would imagine. Yeah. Yes. What kept you going and what stopped you from saying, you know what, maybe this isn't going to work? Maybe I should find something else to do. I was really fortunate that I was doing all this stuff on the side of already doing my dream job,

which was working as an entertainment reporter, traveling the world, talking to the biggest stars on the planet, like Tom Cruise and Morgan Freeman. and the rock and, you know, all these other people. I just loved pro wrestling. And I've always loved pro wrestling. And I had the opportunity through that job working on TV to interview, you know, some of the greatest pro wrestlers on the planet. This was just the kind of a side thing. It's like, if I have the access to talk to these people when they're in town promoting

Ra or SmackDown or Impact or whatever, let's put that on TV. I'll selfishly get an interview with some of these great people. And then I'll throw up the interview on YouTube and other fans will be able to enjoy this. That was it. But I will say that like, especially for the last interview that we did, I was, I heard a quote years ago and it's always stuck with me. It's if you're willing to do things that other people aren't willing to do, you're going to get results that other people aren't going to get. Correct. So when I saw you last time four years ago, I flew to Detroit on a Spirit Airlines flight for like six hours to do an interview with Rhino.

And then while I was there, I reached out to you and I'm like, hey, you're in the area. Do you want to do an interview? you're like, come on by. So it was all, it was like taking chances and asking, that's really it. That was it just, you know. You know, your story parallels mine a lot in the sense that I was already doing my dream job as a professional wrestler. Yeah.

Making a living. Yep. Traveling all over the country, all over the world, doing that. And then on the side, I started speaking, doing motivational talks, going into schools, working with different speakers and trying to get better that way. And it was kind of a side hustle. and then at a certain point the scales tipped, the teeter-totter tipped,

and then all of a sudden I'm on the road full-time as a motivational speaker, working with over the past 10 years, working with over 200,000 parents, teachers, and students from all over this country, sharing a message, trying to plant seeds of inspiration, kind of like how you're doing here,

by you doing your dream job, you're affecting other people, impacting other people in ways that maybe they wouldn't have been impacted, hadn't you stepped into the space, you know? And it's kind of interesting to me. The thing I love about you is the fact that you have one leg isn't even the most inspirational thing about you. Your whole story is inspirational.

Like when you take it back to like where you grew up and what you saw as a kid, losing your leg just feels like, oh, yeah, no big deal. Yeah, it was just one of many traumas I had to endure as a child. But yeah, so how I look at, you know, It was so funny. I was at the university of where was I at last week? I don't even remember. I was at a college and I was giving a presentation.

And I joked early in my presentation. I was like, you know, it feels really good to be invited to be a guest speaker at a college. However, I don't feel like I've made it until I have protesters out in front protesting the fact that I'm showing up at their school like a Ben Shapiro or somebody, you know? Right. Like maybe I'll maybe I'll get that famous or that. that big someday. But one young student in a wheelchair, she asked me, she goes, Zach, how do you identify? Do you identify as a disabled person or as a person with a disability? And I said, I don't know. I've never thought about that. How do you identify? Because she was in a

wheelchair, you know? She's like, well, I identify as a disabled person because it just fits in more in line with the truth of who I am and it feels right. And I said, that's great. I go, I don't know. I still don't know. I go, here's how I view my disability. I view it as a tool or a tool to make an opportunity to make a connection to help somebody. That's how I view it.

I don't look at myself as less than or I don't feel less than. It's just simply a tool that I have that allows me to, connect with someone, hopefully to make an impact, to plan a seat of inspiration, to give some hope to somebody who's going through a struggle that's familiar to me, you know. Take it back to before you found out you had cancer, what was your situation like growing up in the suburbs of Detroit? It was pretty hard. I mean, I'm a product of an alcoholic, broken, and abusive home. When I was four years old, my dad made a decision. He decided that his relationship with drugs and alcohol is going to be more important than his relationship with me or my mom.

And he took off never to be seen again, except for one time, he tried to come back into my life when I was 19 or 20. And I was in WWE at the time. And I had a public autograph signing at the Gibraltar Trade Center in Taylor, Michigan. And there was a long line. This is when I was on TV with the big show and Brock Lesnar and all of that. And at the end of the line, my dad, shows up, who I haven't seen in 16 years, no contact, no phone calls, no birthday cards, no Christmas cards, nothing. And he shows up and he has an 8 by 10 promo pick of me. And he sets it down in front of me and says, you know, will you sign this for your pops? And I look up and I'm like, oh my God, that's my dad.

Like it was. Did you recognize him? Yes. When he said, can you sign it for your pops? Because I used to call him pops. I didn't call him dad. And it was the most surreal. It was overload in terms of emotions going through me at that moment.

And I signed it because I didn't really know what to do. I was kind of in shock. And then I had to walk away because I was so emotional. That was such a moving, you know, a lot of, when I was growing up, a lot of kids, they would ask, you know, Zach, where's your dad? Where's your dad? And, you know, I would put on this like facade, like this macho facade of, well, you can't miss something that you don't have, you know.

But the truth is every boy and arguably, maybe even more importantly, every girl, needs that fatherly figure, I think, to provide that nice foundation to grow up. And so for me, seeing him, you know, 16 years after he left our family was incredibly overwhelming and emotional. But where did it go from there? You signed the thing and then did you have a conversation with him? No, that was it. That was it. That was it. Yeah, I think he gave me a letter with his contact information. But I didn't know how to follow up because I was still carry. all of that resentment that I had over the years that really came to the surface, you know. And the fact that I was a public figure and I had made it, quote unquote, and I was a success.

And now he wants to come back into my life because I'm a success. No, I don't think so. You know, where were you when I was eight years old battling cancer? Where were you when I didn't know how to shave? I didn't know how to tie. I went on my first date, you know, and I didn't know what to do. Where were you then? And so all of those emotions came up.

And I hadn't learned how to forgive at that point. point. I was still emotionally immature, but now I am so open to having a relationship with him. He's still alive. Last I heard, he was still battling his disease of addiction and alcoholism. And there's not much that I can do for somebody who, and there's not much anybody can do if you have a loved one or someone that you know or a friend that is in the mud, so to speak, of alcoholism and drug addiction, you know, you can feel how powerless you are when it comes to trying to help them. But, no, I pray for his health and I pray for his safety and I hope he finds the piece that he's looking for, for sure.

You were in that same position. And I heard something recently that really stuck with me, that everything, like, you know, if your father was an alcoholic and then you were an alcoholic, you would now, you're now the one. You're now the one that changed everything for your family. You're now the one who stepped in and your family and everyone after you will be different as a result of you and the choices that you made to get clean. That's right. No matter what position that we're in, and this is the message that I tried to deliver to any audience that I speak in front of, that life isn't about what happened to us or where we come from or what we look like or what we've gone through. Life is about how we respond to what happens to us.

If our responses are rooted in faith, rooted in love, rooted in service, then there is a world out there that is indescribably wonderful. The best news is it's available to anybody, anybody. It all comes down to our response to life. We have the ability. Now, my greatest victory isn't being in WWE or doing American Ninja Warrior or climbing a mountain or living this life I do now. My greatest victory is that I'm able to provide a life for my children that that's foreign to me, that I never knew. Because of the applications of these principles that are spiritual in their foundation, I'm able to provide a life for my kids that I never knew.

In other words, Jake, Jake to Snake Robert said it the best. He goes, listen, our history does not have to be our destiny. If we fully accept the situation that we're in and we get help and we get better, that allows us to plant the flag, to draw the line in the sand to say no more. And I'm able to do that today, man. And so people ask me, like, what are you so happy about it? It's like that, man. Like, I won, you know?

And it's got nothing to do with wrestling or anything that I do for a living. It's the fact that I can break a generational curse that has terrorized my family for hundreds and hundreds of years. And that is awesome. You just posted 5,000 days clean. Yes. Dude, congratulations. Thank you. What's your anniversary?

The date of my last drink and drug is February 14th, Valentine's Day, 2010. Look at you coming up for 14 years. I'm 14 years, man, which is, wow, I was just thinking about that. Like, what was I doing between year one and two and three? It was all a blur, man, but it's just literally one day at a time. Tapping into a power greater than myself, tapping into a community that has walked the path before me that's willing to reach back and help me out, to allow me to put me in a position

so I can reach back and help the new guy. And that's really how it works, man. This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew. And if you've ever been thinking of trying Blue Chew, how about your first month for free? Yeah, when you use the promo code CVV at checkout at bluechew.com, you'll get your first month for free. You just have to pay $5 for shipping.

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Use that promo code. CVV at checkout and you get your first month for free. You just have to pay $5 for shipping. That's bluechew.com. The promo code is CVV. I heard you say something really powerful in another interview. You said, I didn't become a WWE superstar at 19, like to live that dream. I became a WWE superstar at 19 so I could get clean at 26.

And I was like, whoa. It's amazing that things get put in your life for a reason, that people get put in your life for a reason. And it's pretty amazing that you got to live your dream as a WWE superstar, and we'll get into all of that stuff. But you got to do that, and then seven years later, through the wellness policy, get clean. Correct.

Correct. And what's funny is that we don't understand the real meaning behind what we're doing when we're going through it. It's only in retrospect. Yeah. Because if you would have asked me at 19, 20 years old, like, all right, you know, what's what's the end goal here? What's the ultimate goal?

I would just, man, to stay at WWU superstar forever. And that's all I could see because that was what was in front of me, you know, and that's what was interesting to me at the time. But, um, but no, that planted the seeds to allow me to tap into the WW wellness policy for them to pay for my rehabilitation at 26 years old, literally saving my life. life. Because when I was 26 years old and I was at rock bottom and I was at the most miserable I'd ever been in my life and the most hopeless I ever been in my life, I didn't have the resources. I didn't have any money. I didn't have any connections. I didn't know anybody who was

sober. I didn't know anybody who walked that path before. And it was those letters that I got every six months from WWE that said, hey, listen, if you were ever under contract with WWE and you've reached a position in life where you need help, we are willing to help. Just call this number. That's all you had. That's all I had to do was call that number. And then within three minutes, they're booking flights and putting me in rooms and at the, you know, world-class treatment centers and all of this stuff.

And, you know, that was the foundation of everything that is good in my life now is a direct result of my sobriety. And your kids will never know about that man who used to exist. No, they've never seen their dad drunk. They've never seen their dad hide. They've never seen their dad be violent with their mother. they've never seen their dad not there. That's all I knew when I was 11, when I was 7, when I was 3, when I was 1, which are my kids age. They have no idea.

And it's funny, too, because I'll meet people. You know, you gain new relationships as you go through life. And I'll tell them about some of the escapades back in the day. And then they'll say, oh, my God, I can't even imagine it. I can't even picture it in my head, you doing what you're talking about. I'm like, it's all true, man. So I've been blessed to live, like, literally two different lives in one lifetime. And that's cool.

So we need to talk about your WW re-debue. Okay. Think about this. Okay. You go on the way back machine. How good is the F-3 energy, by the way. Dude, this F-3 energy is hitting for something different right now. Orange mood?

Real good. It's orange-mood. That one doesn't have caffeine, by the way. I don't need the caffeine because it's a little bit late. You do have a red eye tonight. I do have a red-eye tonight. I might want to get a little bit of rest on it. Before that flight.

That's right, because I land at 530 in Detroit, and I get home just in time to get my kids off to school. I love that. Yeah, which is great. So I want to make sure I'm well rested. Now, we're talking about improved sleep, anti-anxiety, improves mood, and quality of sleep. Yeah, it's great. All on the F3. It tastes like an orange dreamticle.

We're planning to do an ad here, but that stuff's so great. No, it's, I'm flying right now. If you want to use the code CVV at F3Energy.com, you can save 15% if you'd like to. You debut with Hulk Hogan and Roddy Piper at the same time. Yeah. Come on. That's wild, isn't it? When they tell you this, so not only are you going to be in WWE, but oh, by the way, your debut is going to be with Hulk Hogan and Roddy Piper.

What are you thinking? Man, I had a, you know those Vince McMahon gulps that he does? I love the big Vince McMahon gulp. I hit a real one when they told me about it. that like that uh it became insane at that point like it was surreal even signed the contract and for them to fly me to new york and then go to the headquarters and meet with the writing team and do all of that like this wow this is surreal this is insane and then when they told me um that the next the following week we're going to tape smackdown and uh i'm going to be with hawkogan and

roddy piper that it's just so it's so i wish i could go back and just relive that that and just enjoy that moment because I wasn't able to really appreciate or enjoy that moment because of how big it was and how like life changing that moment was, you know, and how much pressure that's on you and you want to, you know, it's your debut. You want to make a good first impression and you want to, man, but it was wild. It was wild just walking into the locker room and seeing Vince McMahon to my left or Roddy Piper to my right and Hawke Hogan coming out of the shower all at once. Like, okay, here's my childhood, literally in this one space.

Hello, nice to meet you, glad to be here. How are you? You met all three of them at one time at the same time. Yeah. Wow. It was just insane. And then the first thing that you ever do in a WWE ring is you hit Roddy Piper from behind. I hit him with a flagpole that weighed literally, this thing must have weighed like 35 pounds.

Right. And so I had to sit there in the front row as a fan. and wave it for like a half hour before my shoulders were on fire five minutes in, but I'm like, I got to keep doing it. And then, so this thing was, was heavy and it hurt. And I told Piper, I go, listen, I go, I don't know if I can swing this without, like, hurting you. I don't know if I can work this heavy-ass flagpole.

He looked at me, he goes, kid, you better hit me as hard as you fucking can, you know? And I'm like, okay. All right. And Roddy Piper tells me to hit him as hard as I possibly can with this heavy flagpole, then I'm going to do it. And so that's what I did. And the thing bent, man. And then Shana O'Hare spears me across the ring, which was wild because he was such a large man.

Incredibly large, fast and strong. And, but the moment, the key moment for that debut was the look on Piper's face after he ripped off the prosthetic leg. It was a moment. a look of horror, a look of disgust, a look of regret, remorse, like all rolled into one. I don't think there was a wrestler on that roster that could have pulled off, pardon the pun, that angle other than Roddy Piper. That's how good he was. He was amazing. And for him to elicit all of those emotions in one look, and it's just a quick shot.

Legend. He was the best, man. And then when he was on in the 80s and the 90s, like promos. Do you remember him doing commentary for a while in the early 90s? Yeah, with Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby Heenan. He was great in that role too. No matter what he did, he was so good. He could elicit.

John Sina can do some of the same too. Elicit that reaction or that emotion from a promo. Not a lot of wrestlers in the history of wrestling can do that. Like, there are wrestlers that can get a reaction, but to elicit that emotional response, only the greats could do that. When you look at the people you worked with in your first 12 months in WWE,

it's a who's who. Well, it's my only 12 months in WW. They fired me after 12 months. It was a little longer than 12 months, wasn't it? Let's see. I think I signed the contract in January of 03, and I think I got fired in February of 04. 13 months.

But it's Mr. America slash Hulk Hogan. It's Roddy Piper, Sean O'Hare, John Sina, Kernanagle, Vince and Stepp, Big Show, Brock. Brock. Of course, the Brock stuff. I mean, I'm leaving out some other people, but... Yeah. Wow.

It was... And you have to think about this. I had less than 20 matches before I had that match with the big show, which was my first official WWE match. You see what I'm saying? I have one leg. I'm 20 years old,

less than 20 matches, before I have my first official WWE match. So what you're watching is a live experiment of like, can we make this work? Do we have enough? W.W.E. Magic.

Is that good enough? And can we come together like peanut butter and jelly to make this thing work? And so it was a wild time. I wrestled Vince one-on-one on pay-per-view. A 53-year-old non-rustler, okay, versus a 20-year-old kid with one leg who has been in the business about a year at this point.

And Vince is catching Asai Moonsolts off to the outside, you know, in the match, and he's bleeding all over the place. And it's something that you will never, ever, ever, ever see again. Because now they have a system, right? Now they have the NXT in Florida. and you come up and you learn, you learn how to work,

you learn how to work the cameras, you learn how to, but what production is like, you learn how to, um, there's a lot that goes on when you're a wrestler on TV, right? For AEW or WWE,

you have to think about the lights, you have to think about the crowd, you have to think about your time cues, you have to think about where the cameras are, you have to think about what commentary is saying about you. You have to do something that you have gone over before in the production meeting and you have to allow, commentary to talk about it, allow it to breathe while not getting the live crowd board.

You have to do all of this. And so they have a great system now with NXT, right? Yeah. Where you do the exact same thing you're going to do on Raw. You have the same cameras. You have the same commentator. It's the same setup. I did not have any of them.

They said, go out. And like the clip you just posted, they said, cut your forehead with a razor blade and have Brock Leser F5 view in front of your mom twice. like and figure it out live you know and so there was no coaching there was no like hey why don't you do this for six months or a year or whatever we did it live and and all of that considered it's kind of hard to look back and watch those matches because I'm like man it would have been so much better if we do this this that and the other hindsight you know um but considering all of those variables I think we did a very very good job and I'm very proud of myself and I thank

W.W.E. to this day. What did Vince do to carry you through that match with him? Vince did not carry me through that match at all. Listen. I'm not going to, I'm not going to speak, I'm not going to speak ill of the man, because I love Vince McMahon, and he saved my life literally. And he put me in that position and gave me that platform, which, which launched me into the rest of my life, you know. But we did it. We did that. And it might have been one of the first ones to do that style of match. It's the way that Logan Paul does his matches now.

So it's move for move. Move for move. Figured out two, three, four weeks beforehand. They fly me to New York. I'm in a warehouse with the ring. It's me. It's Vince. And this is like three weeks before I match.

And the agents. So you got Bruce Pritchard there and you got Pat Patterson's there. And we're all just huddled around Mike Kyoto's there, the referee. And we just talk about, all right, well, what can we do? You know, what can you do here, Vince? What, Zach, what can you do here? Well, I can do. Okay, cool.

And then we piece it together. Wow. Move for move for move for move for move. The day before the pay-per-view, they fly me to Denver early. They rent a local community college, gymnasium. they set up a ring. Me and Vince again, go over it the day before, move for move, for move for move with the agents there and the referee.

Look at you getting this one-on-one time with Vince. It's so fun. Wow. It's a lot of fun because Vince is a maniac. I think you have to be a maniac if you're Vince McMahon. Like that's the only way that you can reach this level of success. Sure. And so.

But a maniac in what way? A maniac in his energy and his passion and his drive. And it's just fun to be around. I find people like that very, very interesting. In fact, I wanted to know, I wanted to know what Tony Kahn was like. And a couple of weeks ago, I was in Houston, Texas, doing work with schools, and AEW was in town. So I called Jimmy Jacobs and I say, hey, are you in town? Jimmy is like Tony Kahn secondhand man in AEW.

Like he's, you know, he's up there. in the private jet writing the shows with Tony Khan doing this whole deal, right? And I'll go, hey, can I come to the AEW show? And he's like, yeah, come on it, man, it'll be great to see it. So I go, great. I go, listen. I go, all I want to do is meet Tony Khan. That's my goal for tonight.

He's like, oh, you can meet Tony for sure. I go, no, I want to meet him. Perfect. I walk into AEW. I see some old friends. It's awesome. And then Tony Khan comes around the corner, man. And he's like, Zach, and I go, Tony, like we're old friends.

You know, we hug big, you know. And it's like, I'm like, it's so great to see. He's like, it's great to see you too. And I got to shake his hand. And he has some of that like maniacal energy that Vince McMahon had when I work for him. And I'm like, it's perfect. The fact that Tony Kahn's the head of AEW and Vince McMahon's the head of WW. It just makes sense.

Yeah, I don't think you can get to that level of being an entrepreneur. It doesn't happen by accident. No. Like that is very thought out. Like that's, that is, it's not just like, oh, wow, I fell backwards into this stuff. This is you being very. smart. Yes, smart and also like strategic with the moves that you make and the things that you do. That is, I've always, you know, because there are people who are smart and there are people who are good at business and there's lots of them.

But there's only a handful of Vince McMahon's. Sure. There's only, you know, a handful of Walt Disney's of Henry Ford's, of just captains of industry that have changed the course of history in their industry. And you've got to be a special kind of nut to be that for sure. You know, people still really hate Brock Lesnar as a result of all the stuff that you guys did during your feud together. Good. Like, I recently reposted that clip of what you just talked about, the F5s in front of your mom and learning how to blade on national television live. But I think that, I think people remember you being pushed down the stairs in the wheelchair. Yes. They don't remember, like, the seven minutes of him, like, be.

beating you up and berating you and choking you and everything else that went on before that. No. He was a very mean man to you. He was a very mean man to me on camera and he's a very sweet man to me off camera. I love Brock Lesnar so much. He's the type of dude that I get along with the best. Just salt of the earth shows up, respectful, does a great job. And that's it.

There's not a whole lot of, uh, uh, Acuchama. Do I use that correctly? That was good. Acutra ma around Brock Lesnar. With this too. Yeah, with the jazz hands, man. That's a little high school theater coming out.

What you see is what you got. Exactly. And genuine. And there's no like ulterior motives and there's no like sales mini type of, hey, I'll shake your hand here and then stab me in the back later. It's like what you see is what you get exactly like you said. And those are the type of guys that that I get along with most, not only in wrestling, but in real life.

How do you plan out the wheelchair spot? That was, so the wheelchair spot, that wasn't a wheelchair spot to begin with. The original idea, I don't know if we've talked about this, the original idea was for Brock Lesnar to F5 meet off of the Smackdown Fist through the stage. What? That was the original idea. Do you remember the Smackdown Fist and the set and all of that? Legendary. Yeah, so we were going to be on top of the smackdown fist.

Brock Lesnar was going to toss me off this bad boy and I was going to go through the stage. Boom. Okay. We had to, and that was the plan for like two or three weeks, we had to pivot, so to speak, to the wheelchair spot down the stairs because creative, we couldn't figure out a plausible way for me and Brock Lesnar to be on top of a reason for us. to be on top of the fish. Like, how did we get up there? Did he drag me up there? Did he climb up?

Is there a secret ladder? Like, we couldn't figure that part up. I was really excited about that because you remember back in the day, dude, Shane McMahon falling off the set, Jeff Hardy doing all this crazy stuff. And I'm like, man, I can't wait to, you know, to me, like doing that stunt was, was exciting. How high is that? It's way up. It was on top of, probably something like that.

It was on top of the stage, man. So Brock would stay up there, but F5, you off, and you would go flying. I'd go through the stage, and then the final shot would be Brock Lesnar standing on top of the fist, like, ha, ha, ha, ha. How were you going to go through the stage? I don't know. They were going to gimmick it, you know, and try to make it as safe as possible. That's not a back bump, though.

That's a front bump. I don't know. I was willing, man. I'll do it head first, brother. Sign me up. I'm 20 years old. I'm a WWE. You can't touch me, man.

I want to take any bump, all bumps that I possibly can. Also, side note, are you high at this point? I'm not high, no. Well, maybe a little bit. Maybe a little, but no, not to the point where it's affecting like, like your work, right? My work and all that kind of stuff. Okay, so this pivots to instead.

Another dangerous spot where we're going to push or at least make it look like you get pushed down the stairs. Correct, correct. And to your point, that's when old old school fans bring that angle up or my run up in WWE, they always talk about the stairs. Yes, but they, again, forget everything that led up to that, which is equally as devastating. It is pretty bad. It's brutal. It is brutal. But what's so cool is that I was able to create like a core memory for a lot of people in the world of professional wrestling. Because I mean, I have those two, man. I remember when earthquake debuted and with a push-up contest between

Dino Bravo and the Ultimate Warrior and it was a big setup. And it was like, wow, this guy came from the audience and he was a huge dude. My name's John. That's how he, and then boom, and he's beating up the entertainment or beating up the ultimate warrior. And it's like, oh, man, I'll remember that angle forever. And so for a lot of people that it was at the right age of the right place, the right time, me getting shoved down the stairs by Brock Lesnar, it still sticks with

them. But that wasn't you going down the stairs. It was not. It was a stunt double. They brought. Stunt double also have one leg? He did not. They brought in this Hollywood stunt double, and this dude looked just like me.

He was like my twin, man. And how we did it was I was wearing my prosthetic leg. And I had my real leg in a brace because of the, because Brock broke it in a couple places. And so the whole idea was that I was wearing my prosthetic leg. I had black pants on so it looked like I had two legs. The stunt guy had two legs. they shoved him down. He took the bump one take done, boom.

And it was brutal. It was a wild bump to take. Right before we did it, the stunt guy did it, Vince pulled me aside and he goes, Zach, you know, you can take the bump if you want. And I said, what? He goes, yeah, you know, we can make it real. You know, we can do it one, continue a shot. You taking that bump all the way. And I'm like, so Vince, I'm not taking the bump.

Like, I'm, like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm all for everything that, that, that's, that's, that's, that's, it was, it was, it's, it was so many variables, there's so many things that could have gone wrong. If he just do one take? One take, done. Was that live, or was that pre-taped? No, we pre-taped it. Are the whole thing's pre-taped? Yes. And we pre-taped it, but we presented it as live. Because if you remember, Vince was in the ring live. Yeah, and then they cut to the other shot. Yes.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I watched that back. And you're right, it looks so much like you, but I'm like, that could be really dangerous for that stunt performer. Like, he's going down the stairs full speed, and the wheelchair is following him full speed as well. And it's not like a normal set of, uh, um, a flight of stairs.

It's like an extended, it's a huge flight of steel. Like two flights, I think. Yes. Yeah, it was wild. Well,

it all led to you getting a win over Brock Lezler. That's it. Amen, brother. Nobody can take that away from me. That's right.

You got a win over that's right. It's just crazy. That's what I tell my kids. At what point during your WWE career, did you hear the story that they hired the wrong one-legged wrestler?

I think early on, because they had to, because they brought him to TV. Like, they were ready to use him thinking that he was me. And so I think some other talent were like, hey, wait, you're a different one-legged guy talking to me. And I go, Steve Chamberlain. Yes, Steve Chamberlain, man. God bless him because he started a charity called 50Legs, 50Legs.org. And what he does is he covers the cost of prosthetics for people looking to get prosthetics that insurance doesn't cost.

Wow. Or insurance doesn't cover. So he started a wonderful charity and he helps amputees all over the country. And he does really, really great work. I've never been able to meet him. I've always wanted to. I wanted to shake his hand. But yeah.

So they, they, because they, I think Johnny Ace got the edict. to hire me just based off the buzz of my TNA dark match. Wow. Versus truth martini. I had that match and all of a sudden, like the rumors and it just, it went viral before there was a viral. Like, oh my God, it's a one-legged guy, one-legged guy. And he's not bad.

He's okay. He can work. Da-da-da-da-da. Right? And so the wrestling business is very, very small. And so I think Johnny Hayes got the edict to hire the one-legged guy based off a dark match, meaning they had no idea what I looked like. It's so Johnny Ace is like, okay, yes, sir, I'll do what I'll do what I'm told like a good soldier.

He started making some phone calls. Steve Kern, old buddy of Johnny Ace, is training Steve Chamberlain, the other one-legged guy in Florida. And he goes, yeah, I got a guy here who's got one-leg and he wrestles. So how many one-legged wrestlers could there be? Right, right? And so it just makes sense that they hired him. And, but then I started, I started wrestling on TNA on their pay-per-views. So then people understood what I looked like.

And that's when, that's when they kind of did the math that that wasn't me. But yeah, by all accounts, a great dude. And more importantly, started this charity that helps a lot of amputees and people like us across the country. And, you know, you were doing so well in TNA that TNA was going to sign you, right? Yes. And who was it that said, you know, don't sign with TNA because I feel like something's going to happen here with WWA? That was truth Martini, the guy who trained me. You know, like, there was a lot of, like, limine-snicketts series of unfortunate events, but the opposite of that.

Your life is like, Forrest Gump. I'm the one-legged Forrest Gump. I'm not very bright, but I've done a lot of cool shit, and I've been in a lot of cool situations. Yeah, they handed me. wanted me to sign at the taping. So they handed me a physical contract. And I go, listen, I mean, I was dumb, but I wasn't dumb enough to sign a contract right there.

And I go, I'm going to take it home and look at it. And then on that road trip home, Truth Martini said, listen, man, like, I've never seen this in wrestling before. Like, there is serious buzz about you from all over. He goes, do not sign that contract. At least reach out to WWE before you do. tell WWE that TNA is offering this and if there's anything that, you know, if they're interested.

And before I can call it WVE, the next day, W.W.E. called me. Wow. Johnny Yace called me. And so, um, that was a surreal phone call. Surreal phone call. And they're talking to Johnny Yates, uh, about coming to work for WWE, you know. And, um, I loved everything that he said, great salesman. But also I was a 19 year old Mark too. So I mean, he could have said anything to me out of like, yeah, let's do it. Of course.

But then I called Jeff Jarrett because they just offered me the deal. And I told them about the phone call I had with WWE. And Jeff said, listen, Zach, I can't, we can't match that money that you're going to make in WWB. We can't. But what we can do is protect you as a talent, as a young talent, as someone who is an attraction. He goes, I can't promise you that WWE is going to do the same. So it was kind of like money versus creative versus like what's best for me moving forward. You know, so I had to weigh those options out and ultimately I chose WWE simply because I didn't know if that opportunity would ever be offered again.

And then look at the 13 months that followed. Yeah. And the people you got to work with. Insane. It really is crazy. Yeah. What's the one match that you're the most proud of during your time in WWE? probably the

the Brock Lesnar match the match that we had in front of my mom with the F5s and the color and all of that because it was it was more of an angle than a match but but I felt a sort of

I don't know man I felt a lot of fulfillment I got a lot of fulfillment out of that match because the office came to me and they said listen here's the business of this match we want the WWE universe to hate Brock Lesner. He is a heel, but he's getting baby face reactions.

And we need to do something to make the people hate him. So they almost assign me that, I felt that responsibility. Like, man, I'm the man for the job. I can do it. And so that's why I was so excited to go out there and create something memorable for them. And over 20 years later, people still bring it up sometimes. Some old wrestling fans still bring it up when we get to meet. And to me, that tells me that I did a good job.

I felt good about it that night, and I still feel good about it today. And you should. I mean, that's a lot of responsibility to put on a 19-year-old kid. Yes. Like, here's one of our biggest stars, and we're really trying to make him an even bigger star, and it's up to you, kid, to make sure he gets over as a bad guy. That's right. That's right.

That's right. That's right. Man, I was so excited to do it, too. I loved it. And, you know, and Brock is. is such a, such a talent. And I was talking to some middle schoolers today about Brock Lesnar, about how we left WWE.

And then he made the Minnesota Vikings football team after not playing football since high school. Then he left there and went to the UFC, became the UFC heavyweight champ. And he came back to WWW, like what a once in a generation athlete. It's unbelievable. And the fact that he's reached the top level in everything that he's done. Anything athletically. Yeah.

He's bigger, stronger, and faster than everybody. Joe Rogan always says if aliens were to come here, we'd send Brock Lesnar as like the representation of, yeah, this is what humans look like. This is what humans can be. Yes, Brock Lesnar. He can jump to the gym. Dude, when he was, you know, we've all seen those clips of him doing those shooting star presses. Insane.

In OVW. Yeah. And just the fact that he looked like he was just floating in air. A man that big has no business being that agile. It's unreal. But a testament to his. talent was that he took care of me and kept me safe. Wow. The entire match, even though it looked really, really, really, really brutal. And I've always appreciated that because Brock at that point

where I was with how much heat I had with the locker room with how much heat I had in the office, if Brock were to go into business for himself and himself only and legitimately hurt me, there would have been no repercussion. Zero. And so Brock said, listen, I'm a professional and I have a job to do and I'm going to show up and I'm going to do the job to the best of my ability and keep Zach safe. Did you have any scary moments in the ring with Brock? I felt so safe with Brock. I know you tell this story of him, he's going to give you a triple power bomb.

Yeah. And you get knocked out after power bomb number two. Yeah. And instead of it being a triple power bomb, it's just a double power bomb now. He's like, we don't need it. I want to keep Zach safe. But you said like he noticed that your body went limp, which sounds. very scary and you're like

had he kept going and had he not had the wherewithal to stop man you might not be sitting here right now that's right that's a very real possibility especially when it comes to those head injuries and we didn't know everything that we know now back then with head injuries and things like that and so

if you came and a lot of guys man every night would come back loopy and it's obvious looking back that they were concussed they were you know they got their bell rung. And as talent, we felt that we couldn't express that or we couldn't show that and we couldn't let anybody know because it was a sign of weakness or it was a sign of, hey, I'm not tough or I'm not built strong enough to do this job. And so there was, excuse me, there was a lot of, a lot of that. And there was no concussion protocol. There was no head injury kind of protocol and what to do when you get

knocked out or, you know, I, I wrestled to Jerry in my last match with WWE. And his, his, his, uh, his, uh, goons came in at the end, gave me a double STO, which is, anytime you give me an STO, it's dangerous because I'm already top heavy. And I try to explain this to the guys that I wrestle with. I go, listen, I'll take my own bump. I'll make it look great, dude. Like, trust me, like, you're not going to look weak, but you have to let me take my own bump on this because if not, I'm going to go on my head.

Yeah. And those guys were all jacked up and juiced up at making their WWE debut as Tajiri's seconds. And so they came in double STO on me, I leaned on my head. And immediately I go into the fencing position. Fingers do this. And it's, it's an obvious type of situation, you know. Dude, I, I, they, I, I, I, I, I wake up.

They kind of carry me to the back. Um, and then, and then somebody drops me off at the hotel. and I fly home in the morning, first thing in the morning, and then they say, all right, just make sure you go see your doctor and get cleared before you come back. Like that was the concussion protocol back then. And so thank God that's changed. And, you know,

I think you have to credit Chris Nguyenski for just advocating about concussions, about head injuries and the trauma. And then obviously, you know, with the tragedies that have happened over the years, I'm talking about Chris Benoit and the research that has gone, into CTE as well as in the NFL. You know, you think about Junior Seow, guys like that. And so the point is we know a lot more, and they do a whole lot in WWE and AEW to protect their talent, especially when it comes to head injuries like that.

You have so many great memories and all these great stories that you're telling here about WWE. At what point did things start to go downhill? Probably two weeks into my room. Is that just because you're a 19-year-old kid who's making more money than you know what to do with? Yeah. I didn't have the, I didn't have the, how do you want to say the, the wherewithal, like you said, or the emotional maturity. With the self-control. The self-control or the foundation to be able to handle the gift that I received.

it was it was it was it was beyond my ability to um to just be a human being or to be a wrestler or to be someone responsible so when you have the opportunity to indulge you did yeah i oh i indulge quite a bit at pretty much every opportunity because you have to understand in high school i i never drank i never smoked and i never went on on any dates and so all of a sudden at 19 a year later your W superstar, all of that becomes available. And it was like, yeah, finally, you know, I've arrived. This is great. And it wasn't so much the drugs and the alcohol at that time.

It was the inability just to be a productive member of a team, you know, the inability to conduct myself as a representative of a worldwide billion-dollar company. I didn't have the tools to do. And so I floundered that or I dropped the ball a number of times. And then it sucks so bad because I can see that I was messing up and I could see that people were unhappy with me. But it seemed like the more I tried to fix things, the worse I made them, which put me in a spot of like, oh, there's nothing I can do. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't, you know. And eventually it was just, you know, they had to wash their hands of me and me being.

around and I don't blame them at all. I would have done the exact same thing. I was I was just, I was incapable of thriving or being a productive member of that team at that time. So then this continues for seven more years. Yeah. What makes you finally go, all right, it's time to get cleaned? Because I ran out of option. I ran out of hope. I ran out of the idea of maybe I could be successful and use drugs how I want to or drink how I want to or use people how I want to. That evaporated. I squandered so many opportunities in the wrestling world. I had stops at every major company all over the world.

And I sabotaged myself at every single one of those companies. The last major one was with All Japan. All Japan was really excited about me in 2007, 2008. I went over for a tour. Dude, I was teaming with the great Muda every night. And it was like in the, and that, that style of wrestling and being able to wrestle in front of those fans

with, you know, five, six, seven years of knowledge at this point. Like, I got a huge. It was a lot of fun.

I couldn't control myself outside of the ring, you know? And it's, it's such a sticky spot to, the only time I ever felt like totally in control, or complete or whole was when I was performing. But you give me outside of that space, and I'm like falling apart. I don't know how to be a human being, you know, and I can't, I can't follow directions.

I don't have any discipline in my life. And, you know, I'm ruining relationships and I'm doing things I said I wouldn't do. And all of a sudden, the consequences build and they build and they build. And so it got to the point where the drugs and the alcohol and everything that I was doing stopped working completely. Like I couldn't get the, the, the, the, the desired effect. Wow. Out of them anymore. No matter what combination was, no matter how many I took, I couldn't get the desired effect. What was your drug of choice? Opiates. Oh, wow. Opiates. And so, mixed with alcohol. Mixed with, not only with alcohol, it was the opiates that, um, taking a handful of

Vicodin or Percocet or Oxycontin, whatever it was, that, It got to a point where that wasn't enough. I had to mix in like benzos, like Xanax and things like, and this is how people die. Wow. This is when you mix the benzos with the opiates, it shuts down the respiratory system and people go to sleep and they'll wake up. That never turned into heroin for you? Never, because I never came across it. I was definitely open.

I was open to the idea. See what I'm saying? Because when you get sick, you get freaking sick, especially coming off of opiates and you'll do anything to not feel the way you feel. And were these prescribed? No, I bought them all off this show. I've never had a legitimate pain pill prescription. It's kind of strange. Yeah, that's usually how it's a one-legged professional wrestler.

Well, you also, you know, maybe if you lost your leg at 19, it would have been a different story. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And so it got to the point where the drugs and the alcohol weren't working. And so I would quit. I would stop on my own. I'd say this is out of control.

This is a problem. I don't have any money. I don't have any relationships. I don't have any opportunities. I have to change, right? And so I would stop on my own. But when I stopped, my life got worse in the sense that the horrible anxiety and being uncomfortable in my skin and not knowing what to do and just feeling guilt and shame

and remorse, all of that made it too much for me to be sober. So I would take, I would pick up the drugs again. Then my life would get worse because now I'm dealing with the consequences of using drugs. So I would stop. Then I would do the consequences of stopping. The guilt, shame, remorse, all of that. And so I'm like, I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. It's a hell of a spot to be in.

And hopeless, man. I was literally hopeless. And so that's what brought me to my knees, or my knee, as the case may be. And when I said, I'm, listen, I'm scared. I don't know what to do. And I need help. And saying those words out loud to another human being. just opened this door for me that allowed me to step into the world of recovery and to live a life that I don't deserve and a life that is indescribably wonderful.

Why do you feel like you don't deserve it? Because I have done nothing to, I don't think I deserve all of the blessings that have come along my way. if I put it on paper and then then I say okay this is what I've done in my lifetime but then I get to go home to my beautiful wife I live in my beautiful house in the suburbs of Detroit in a beautiful neighborhood and my kids are all awesome and there's four of them and they're healthy and they're beautiful and they're amazing and I get to do what I love for a living I get paid well to be. do what I love. I'm good at doing what I love. That in turn supports my family, which puts this whole family in a position that we could never even have dreamed of.

And I drive, I'll have you know, Chris Van Bleet, I drive an all-electric vehicle as well. I saw you pull up in that Tesla and I'm like, I knew CVV drives a Tesla. So we're on both ends of the spectrum. We have a Tesla Model 3. Yes. And we have a GMC Sierra 1500. So like, okay. You bail us it out.

I'm a pickup truck guy as well. Which electric do you have? I have a Ford Mustang Mach E. Those things are, those are a beast. Those are fast. So nice. So I get to live a dream work. But look, I think that you do deserve that.

And the reason that you're in the position that you're in is because you're you're inspiring people with the story that you have and the story that you share. The fact that you get to do what you do for a living now, sharing your story with students all across the country and all across the world, I think that you deserve to be in this position. Thank you. I accept that. Thank you.

And it's a result of everything that came before. Isn't that the amazing thing about life? Is that you're in the position that you're in right now because of everything that happened before? That's right. That's right. It's, uh, and it makes me excited to see where life is going to go. Seriously. Because I could have never imagined, I mean, I got sober when I was 26, 27. All I wanted was to get another, uh, wrestling contract. That was a huge motivating factor for me getting sober. Uh, not the only one, not the biggest one, but a motivating factor. Um, because I thought to myself, well, if I can just clean up for a year, I could show WWE or I can show TNA, um, that I'm responsible, that I can, you know, that I'm worthy of this position of being under contract with them.

That contract never came. Never, ever, ever came. But something better down the line came, you know. But that's really hard. And so there are people who struggle who go through life. And I was one of those people, man. You know, I'm three, four, five, six years sober. I'm doing the right thing.

How it's laid out in front of me, you know. And, but I'm like, we're, we're. these opportunities, man. Like, when's it going to be my turn? How is it going to play out? But then something comes along that I can't even imagine or see that I'm even interested in doing, which is public speaking, motivational speaking, because if you ever watch any of my old WWE stuff, whenever they had a microphone in front of me, that was not my strong suit. Dude, I used to have panic attacks when they would tell me I have to cut a promo. There was one time in Milwaukee, we had to shoot this promo at least 30, 35 times,

this pre-taped because I couldn't get it out. So the idea of me using my voice in speaking for a living was never even thought of or dreamed of. But I think the moral of the story is, if we keep our head down, and we are more or less a good person, we work hard, we show up, we show up on time, we see how we can contribute to the people around us,

us. And then we have the ability to ask for help when we struggle. We have the ability to take action when we receive the help from somebody who's walked the path before. And if you do this enough days in a row, something will break. I promise you. And then all of a sudden, you're able to step into the world that you could have never even imagined. That's been my journey. The Rock told me something during an interview and he said, sometimes the best things in life are the things that don't happen. Yes. And that is so applicable of the story that you just told. Think about if you had got that contract two, three, four, five years sober,

whatever, you wouldn't be in the position that you're in right now. No. And that might have made you want to chase, you know, because as we know, WWU contracts never last forever. Everybody gets let go at some point in time unless you're the undertaker. But that would have ended at some point in time and that would have just made you hungry to do it again. Yeah. And then again. I don't think we can find value, and this is what I tried to do for a long time. I try to to find value and self-worth in outside circumstances or in my job or in my relationships or in and but that it's an inside job yeah that has nothing to do um and if you want self-esteem you have to do esteemable acts that's like the work comes first the results come later man and it's a

slow process it can be very very very very slow um and so there there was a moment where that shifted for me. I gave a, I was, gave a presentation in upstate New York. And it was the best speech I ever gave in my life. It was, um, it was to a high school. I got like a four or five minute standing ovation from high schoolers. High schoolers don't like anything. You know what I mean? I got a four or five and I'm like, this is awesome. I remember being in that moment thinking this is great. And then up until this point, every time that I would have a good match or the crowd reaction was strong or I'd give a great speech or a presentation, there's always that high, that like high that comes afterward of like, man, you just kind of float a little bit. You feel

really, really good about yourself. So I give the best speech I ever gave in my life, seven, four or five minute standing ovation from high schoolers. I get in my car, I start driving home. I feel nothing. There is no like great. jobs. They're like, that was awesome. There's no replaying of it in my head. And he's, I'm thinking something's wrong with me. So I call my wife. I go, honey, listen. I go, listen. I tell her what happened. And I go, I don't feel anything right now. Am I okay? Am I dead? Do I have depression? Like, what's going on? And she goes, Zach, here's what it sounds like. It sounds like you, uh, prepared, showed up at your job, did what was asked of you, did a, did a, did a good job. And now you're on your way home to

see your wife and kids. Yeah. Just like everybody else. And I went, that's it. That's it. I can't get fulfillment out of what I do, although that adds to it,

and it feels great to do with that. That has to come from the inside. I want to acknowledge you for the person that you've been and the person that you are and the lives that you're touching by sharing your story through this podcast. You know how many people, you've touched so many lives, just from the stories you've told here.

I appreciate that. And I think there's going to be a lot of people that are struggling with looking for fulfillment outside of themselves and you're speaking directly to them. And there's going to be people that are listening to this who are struggling with addiction. And maybe they're one day sober. Maybe they're one hour sober. And they're going to find a lot in this story. Hey, man, if you're struggling with addiction, we're out here, man. There is life after drugs.

I'm living proof of it. And a lot of my friends are as well. We're a really, really big community and we're waiting for you. and we've been praying for you. So please, come on, join, you know, join the light side as opposed to the dark side, you know? So I end every interview now. We weren't doing this before, so this will be fun.

With a question by gratitude. I wake up every day, I say out loud three things I'm grateful for. I do it again before I go to bed. It's late now, so I'll be going to bed soon. You're doing it again. What are three things in your life that you're grateful for as we sit here? That's a really great question. and I speak a lot about gratitude.

I'm sorry to extend this interview. I speak a lot about gratitude when I do professional development with teachers and I do parent engagement workshops, how foundational gratitude is and how important it is in my life. Number one, I'm grateful for my relationship with God. Number two, I'm grateful for my sobriety. Number three, I am grateful for the life that I get to live. Number four, I'm grateful for my friends and my family and the people who believe in me.

Number five, I'm grateful for it. I'll keep going, baby. Number five, I'm grateful for the people who invested and believed in me even when I didn't believe in myself, who gave me that grace and that opportunity to become the man I am today. And with that, that's it. It's a great way to end it. Love you, brother. Love you.

Good to see you, man. Yes, sir. Well, I said it there, but I love that guy. What a great conversation. and so much good stuff in there. Good wrestling stories, but man, just some solid life advice there. I love it.

If you loved this, please snap a screenshot and share it out on social media. Tag us. He's at Zach Gowan. I'm at Chris Van Fleet, and there's been a lot of big guests over the last few weeks, I guess also a few months too.

So if you're new to the show, go back and check out some of the recent episodes we've had with people like Gunther, Kyota, Jonathan Coachman, Hulk Hogan, Rick Flair, Baron Corbyn, the list goes on and on and on. And he had a great quote during this, and I feel like it's the perfect quote to end this episode with. It's actually from Epidicus. And he said, life isn't about what happens to you. Life is about how you react to what happens to you.

Be great. Be grateful. Happy Thanksgiving. and we will see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987.

Oh, I can't believe. he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.