Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy - Ira Judelson - Bail Street, with NYC's Leading Bail Bondsman - [Invest Like the Best, EP.40]

Episode Date: June 6, 2017

This week’s episode is very unique. It is the first episode devoted to bonds, just not the kind of bonds you are used to. My guest is Ira Judelson, who is the leading bail bondsman in New York City. I met Ira through my friend and former podcast guest Danny Moses, who is also a part of this conversation. I have always had a passion for understanding how different businesses work. In this case, this week we are exploring a different business, but also a different world. Ira’s story is larger than life. He is as authentic and hard working as they come. In both his book and this conversation, there is a lot about family, loyalty, and hard work—principles which really resonate with me. You’ll emerge from this hour with an appreciation of hustle and what it takes to get ahead. I can’t stop thinking about our discussion on how sources of power in any career morph through time, a framework that can help anyone think about their work and where to apply effort. The conversation goes all over the place, but suffice it to say we discuss bond collateral, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, and DMX—and that is but one small fraction. Please enjoy my conversation with Ira Judelson and Danny Moses.   For comprehensive show notes on this episode go to http://investorfieldguide.com/ira For more episodes go to InvestorFieldGuide.com/podcast. Sign up for the book club, where you’ll get a full investor curriculum and then 3-4 suggestions every month at InvestorFieldGuide.com/bookclub. Follow Patrick on Twitter at @patrick_oshag   Books Referenced The Fixer: The Notorious Life of a Front-Page Bail Bondsman   Links Referenced Rao’s Restaurant   Show Notes 1:55 – (First question) – The role that Rao’s restaurant has meant to Ira’s business and career   6:11 – A look at Ira’s bail bonds business and how that industry works             6:22 – The Fixer: The Notorious Life of a Front-Page Bail Bondsman   8:31 – The story of how a pizzeria was a bad piece of collateral   11:10 – How often does Ira deal with bail jumpers   12:10 – What is the size of the open liabilities   13:14 – How long will the open liabilities last   14:55 – Ira’s relationship with his clients and the importance of character in this business   17:46 – the amazing story of how Ira got started in this business   31:05 – His early years of being a bail bondsman and how important his wife was to his success   29:52 – How Ira balances family with this kind of work   32:22 – Ira’s ability to be amazingly efficient on the phone when in social settings and a work call comes in   33:14 – Ira is the fixer   36:40 – Exploring the “Sources of Power” and where the balance for Ira of who he knows vs who he has shifted in this line of work.      38:29 – The importance of intense reliability, consistency and empathy, and why Ira can trust his clients may be considered bad people   30:19 – Two cases where Ira got emotionally involved   47:26 – Why Ira is not worried about people coming after him   48:57 – When a bunch of detainees were wailing to wait an extra day in jail for Ira because his wife was pregnant with their first daughter   54:06 – Ira’s relationships with Ja Rule and DMX   58:32 – What does Ira enjoy most about the business still   1:01:51 – Will Ira ever stop?   1:04:02 – What advice would Ira give to someone early in their career just getting started   1:08:42 – The importance in having a willingness to fail mixed with the passion for what you are doing   1:10:11 – Ira’s health scare and what it taught him about appreciating life

Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Patrick O'Shaughnessy, and this is Invest like the Best. This show is an open-ended exploration of markets, ideas, methods, stories, and of strategies that will help you better invest both your time and your money. You can learn more and stay up to date at investorfield guide.com. Patrick O'Shaunisee is a principal and portfolio manager at O'Shaunicee Asset Management. All opinions expressed by Patrick and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of O'Shaunacy Asset Management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Clients of Ashonasi asset management may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.

This week's episode is very unique. It is the first episode devoted to bonds, just not the kind of bonds you might be expecting. My guest is Ira Juddelson, who is the leading bail bondsman in New York City. I met Ira through my friend and former podcast guest, Danny Moses, who is also a part of this conversation. I've always had a passion for understanding how different businesses work. In this case, this week we are exploring a different business, but also a different world. Ira's story is larger than life. He has as authentic and hardworking as they come. In both his book and this conversation, there is a lot about family, loyalty, and hard work, principles which really resonate with me. You'll emerge from this hour with an appreciation of hustle and what it takes to get ahead.

I can't stop thinking about our discussion on how sources of power in any career, morph through time, a framework that can help anyone think about their work and where to apply effort. The conversation goes all over the place, but suffice it to say we discuss Bond Collateral, Dominic Strauss-Con, and DMX, and that is but one small fraction. Please enjoy my conversation with Ira Jettleson and Danny Moses. Before you came in here, Danny was telling me about a recent TMG article at Rayos, and I was going to wait until later in the conversation to get into Rayos, but I figure maybe we'll start there. So I've actually never been to Rayos, and most people listen out.

I know. Most people listening either will have been or certainly know of it. So let's just start somewhere kind of interesting what Rayos has meant kind of to your business and your career. Well, Rayos is obviously the eatery in Harlem that you can't get a table. There's no reservation. And it's almost like owning your own condominium. It's your table for the night and you get a certain amount of tables a year when you're on the books there. And being there and being in the business that I'm in, because I'm all,

also in the title business, which I deal with a lot of developers, you know, anybody could buy or use tickets to a Nick game and to a Yankee game to take your clients out. But when you take them to Reos, you know, there's 12 tables in the whole place, and you're walking in, Leo DeCropos on one side, and you got Bo Dieter on another side, and then in the back is Jason Gedrick, and then, you know, I was there one night with Tommy Mottole, Mariah Carey, Danny DeVito, Jim Carrey, and then you got us in there who basically, you know, just came off the streets. It's an unbelievable mix and the people there. Frankie Pellegrino just passed away who was just an icon, just a beautiful man, respected all over New York, a great actor and a great singer, and, you know, just being in there,

the warmth and the family that they make you feel like you're eating in your kitchen with the greatest people that want to get into that place. And taking people there, I mean, I've taken every one of my friends there. And, you know, obviously I was there. And, you know, obviously, I was day or the other night and Fat Joe is there and I brought Fat Joe with me and Fat Joe is my partner. You know, we've done, we have a business called jammedup.com which is a, it's supposedly a, we're going to do an app for, you know, the industry of, of criminality. So you can find anything you want on the app. You can find a lawyer, civil criminal, a bail bondsman, a DNA specials, anybody you want in the legal field. And Joe jump behind this and Joe is a friend and we went there the other night and,

you know, next thing you know, they're playing all the way up. and lean back and Joe's dancing and singing and the place is going wild and it's one o'clock in the morning. And then the next thing you know, TMZ hears about it and they're calling and they're like, tell us about it. And you know, and the next thing you know, the Daily News found out about it. And it's just wild. It's just a wild night. But Rayo is a great place and I have to take you there one night. I want to make a comment on Rayo. So I've been there a few times, obviously, only with Ira. So a few times I've been, these are my memories. One, the hardest handshakes I've ever felt on planet Earth when you walk into a place. Two, I ask Ira, can I look at that guy?

Can I talk to that guy? Lastly, someone always sends over shots of something to us. And one time someone sent over shots and I didn't want to do it. I'm like, I can't do this tequila shot. Now I'm too full of meatballs. Ira goes, you'll do that shot and you will do it now. I look over and like, yep, love this tequila. It's great.

Did that shot. So there's some etiquette there that's, you know, you got a guy to figure. There's a lot of very strong people that go there. Yeah, totally. It's a great place. And I love the people there. I love the staff there. They're friends.

They've been to my home. I used to throw a white party in my backyard and they come to that. And my kids bar mitzvahs, they've made meatballs for both of the bar mitzvahs. And Dino, the chef, is a very good friend and a great cook. And I could actually say that hopefully I'll be able to pass the tables on to my son and my daughter one day because it stays in your family. Yeah, we talk a lot about brand as it pertains to companies on this show, looking as an investor at a company to invest in you want a strong brand. I can't think of a place that has a stronger brand in the food world than that. There's nothing comparable in New York.

and, you know, I've followed the food seed pretty closely. Especially their sauces, which I believe, you know, if you read in the newspaper, they've recently sold their business and their sauce business. And, you know, just the atmosphere. Now, they have other different places that they've done out in California and Vegas. But being in the New York one, with the Christmas lights up, with my picture in there, with other people's picture in there, is just a special place to be.

And it's a great place to really let loose and feel comfortable. because you go into a restaurant a lot of times, you never feel comfortable. You know, you're always looking around, asking for water, when are you going to get your meal? It's not like that there. So let's go all the way back to the beginning of the road that led you to get the table at Rayos

and talk about the bail bonds business, generally speaking. We talked a lot about bonds last time. This is a very different kind of bond. And I was completely, before your book, completely unfamiliar with the whole world, as I imagine most people listening will be. So maybe we could start with super basics, you know, what it is, what the business is,

how the economics work, how you earn fees, how you earn as a business earn fees, and we'll dive into some of the kind of interesting underwriting aspects and stories and your book. Basically what a bail bondsman is, in the terms of the court, I basically put up a bond to secure the defendant's appearance in court. And I take collateral behind that bond sometimes if I can get it and to make the court feel comfortable that that defendant's going to be in court and that they have something to lose if they don't come back.

As far as on the street terms, I could be known as a legal loan shark. I take a one-time fee as a rate to secure that the defendant will come back to court. And again, I take collateral to do that. As far as my fees go, in New York State, it ranges from 6 to 10 percent, plain and simple. Of the value of the bond. Of the value of the bond. The small the bond, the higher the fee. I do a lot of large bonds.

And that I try to get as much collateral as I can. There's other bonds companies that take jewelry and, for coats and, you know, I know one bondsman in Arizona once took tables and chairs from someone's house. I normally take real estate as collateral. I feel that's the most comfortable position for myself, and we secure it the best way we can. And I've built up relationships in the courthouses with DAs and judges who are on the other side. And I understand their business and I respect them 200%. They're doing their job and they have to do their job because they don't care about what I'm making. They want to make sure the defendants there. But again, this.

This is a business for me, and everything is a business in life, and I want to make sure that they're comfortable. And we've built up relationships, and I've have a lot of judges that I know and I respect, and I talk to off the bench, and we talk about a lot of different things. The same with DAs that, you know, are in there for, you know, sometimes they call them lifers.

They're in there for a very long time, and then some of them are kind of, you know, like they're going to war. They're in there for a couple of years, and then they're getting out. And, you know, those are the guys that eventually going to come on the other side, and we become friends, and, you know, they bring me business.

And we've talked about different things about that. Before we get back into the relationships and how important those are, because that slowly building of network, and there's a phrase, or I'll actually even quote you in a little bit on this idea of sources of power within the business that are either kind of forced or just kind of grow over time with these relationships. But could you first tell that story about when you learned that a pizzeria was a bad, a bad piece of collateral on a bond?

I was in business. I got, I can't even remember. I was just in business maybe. a couple of years. And I was, you know, literally wet behind the years. Actually, there was actually water behind my ears. And I was so excited. I finally got a big bond. And this guy came in and he brought all these documents into me. And I look at it and I'm like, oh, pizzeria, this is great. God, I mean, I've been eating pizza my whole life. You know, look at all the people going in and out. And what I didn't realize, obviously, when you read the book, is that who I was actually

bailing out, which is the guy that they actually had a KOS on, which is kill on the spot, which I had no idea, and that he was wanted on the street and that he was actually cooperating with one agency, but meanwhile playing me in the other DA's office on another agency. So I take this pizzerie in, unbeknownst to me, I'm not even thinking that he doesn't own the building, that I'm just taking pizza ovens and knock on wood that, you know, I'm sitting here saying, oh, wow, this is great, and I'm running it through my insurance company. Well, I do the bail, and obviously, you know what happens. The guy jumps.

And now I'm stuck with a pizzerie. oh hey okay I'll sell a pizzeria go buy the pizzeria there's nothing there just no it's not even the ovens the guy sold everything got rid of the you know everything and I was I was out of a big number there but it was a great learning experience I guess I had to learn a little bit about the business in the beginning

and not to get so excited on a big bail knowing that at that time of my life there was some other bondsmen in the business some old timers gentlemen I respected and if they passed on this and it came to me then something must have didn't not pass the sniff test. So now, today, I'm in a different position where other smaller bondsmen, when they see bonds

like this, say, well, wait a second. If Ira Juddelson's not doing the bail, what's wrong with it? Yeah. So I ended up getting burned. And I didn't even get any pizza from that because I went by the place and there was nothing there. But I did get the defendant. We did actually get him. We got him before some alleged gang members got him on this KOS.

And we ended up getting them back in. and then I tried to deal with the agency that had the bond and see if we could work out of deal. We ended up working out some sort of a settlement. I didn't have to pay the full amount on the bond because we did bring them back, but we brought them back later than what we were supposed to. Early in your career versus later, say now, what percentage of the time are you dealing with that issue with someone that's jumping? In the beginning, I would have to say that everybody jumped on me, including grasshoppers, because I had no idea what the hell I was doing.

It was just unbelievable. I would take anything and everything off the street because I, didn't understand the industry really that well. I would say back then, I would say probably 10 or 12% jumped on me. Now I would say less than 2% jump. And a lot of times when the less than a 2% jump, a lot of these guys are actually in prison already under aliases. And then when you run them through some different computer checks, you realize that they're under John Smith, but they're in Virginia, but his prints came up and whatever. So you deal with, and that also goes back to the terms of relationships, I now deal with all the DAs who are on the civil side

and say, you know, listen, come on. The guys in Virginia, and they're like, okay, I are, no problem. We don't want to break your jobs. We'll let you go. What do you say? You owe $25,000 not buying. You want to settle for, you know, 15 minutes. But we work it out with them.

They're good people. What's the size of the business in terms of, like, the number of cases you're dealing with at any given time, like the size of the open liabilities? Like, how big are the numbers that we're talking? I take 20 phone calls a day sometimes. And that's just me on my cell phone, on my personal phone. my office takes maybe another 10 or 15. So you're dealing with calls all day long,

ranging from a $500 bail to a $5 million bail. We might pick two that day, three that day that we feel comfortable with. Sometimes we pick none because people don't understand the world of bail bonds, you know, and it's all risk to me. You know, it's a risk factor. I'll take a 15-year-old kid

that's never in trouble before, comes from a hardworking family. He might have got caught on a train with six other guys and they might have stole somebody, cell phone or allegedly stole somebody's cell phone and they pinched all these kids and then and the parents are hardworking people and they got nothing. I'll take that bail. Then you give me some other gentleman that basically might be here for only a year or two and might be involved in

the pharmaceutical business and, you know, he's looking to do the, you know, the dip and I'm not taking that bail. And so the open liabilities, how long will these things typically last? You could have. I've had cases last six, seven years. Wow. A lot of sleepless nights. Remember, I put a lot of money on the street. And these cases could last five, six years sometimes. So you could do 20, $25 million a bail a year. Now figure it out if these cases are going on. You got $100 million on the street. I just thought of a great story, by the way. Ira and I are down in the Bahamas playing craps together. I was rolling the dice on one end into the table. I'm at the other end. So Ira's on a hot roll. He's actually rolling the dice. Some guy sitting across from me, standing across from me,

actually looks up. He goes, Ira and Ira is literally not paying attention. Six, mark the point hit six. Ira looks up at him. And he goes, hey, man, what's up? He goes, Yeah, I was the lawyer for this boxer that you bailed out. And Ira goes, yeah, where is that guy? I mean, you know, Ira rolls point eight, Mark the 8, points Aira. And he goes, he was killed a couple weeks ago. Literally in mid-flight of the dice, IRO, we got to exonerate that bail. This is an example of, like, having money out on the street.

True story. And I'm like, who's this, you know, this great story. Yeah, we actually, actually, that was a promoter. And I actually, he called me on the phone. We did the bail. And I remember the open liability on that bail. And I can't keep track. everything. I'm almost a savant in a way in my head.

And I'm sitting there rolling, and we had a great roll going, didn't we? Yes. And I was like, there's no way anybody's going to break up this roll. And we started rolling the dice, and I said, by the way, where is that guy? I haven't heard from me. He goes, I got shot the other day at a bodega. I go, wow, that's great. Lucky six, lucky six. I go, we got to exonerate that bell. And we were both dying, laughing. And unfortunately, you know, that box had passed away. But these are the stories and the tentacles that, you know, reach this business, because it's almost like Kevin Bacon, and six degrees of separation.

You go somewhere and somebody knows somebody dealing with the business that I'm in. With those numbers, I kept thinking of this as I was reading the book, there's almost like a doctor-patient-like component where some aspect of it, you can't help but get emotionally involved, whether it's someone you feel needs your help

and is being wronged versus probably most of them which are pretty clinical. Like, okay, what's the collateral? Let's see them out. If I tell you, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, I'm a blue-collar guy. I live in a white collar world because I want to give my kids

everything that I didn't have and sometimes it's very hard to ground my children because they'll go to somebody else's house and say oh my God, did you see that basement? And I'm like, oh we've got a pretty good basement here ourselves and Daddy works 24 hours a day, seven days a week and he deals with some very serious people.

But I get very attached to my clients, very attached because sometimes good people make bad mistakes and sometimes bad people just do what they do. And if I told you that I trust, when someone walks in my office and you can get somebody walking in your office or someone on the phone. And what I do for a living, I don't read very well sometimes. I don't write the greatest, but I am one thing I'm great at, I'm a great judge of character. I could judge you

and I can read you right off the bat. And I basically hear when someone at their most vulnerable stage need me and if they're lying to me or they're telling me the truth. And when you get involved with your clients. You want them to feel like, hey, you know, that's my guy. Ira's my ally. And I have a lot of people that I don't know if they're listening to this now who are incarcerated today that will say, that's my guy. That guy went to bat for me. I had nothing. He took me out and he was able to keep me out for two years. And I was able to go and hang out with my family and watch my son grow up for that two years. And he helped my mom and he put commissary money in my place. And I get close to him. and I become their rabbi,

I become their priest, I become their employment agency, I become their doctor, I become their psychiatrist. I wear a ton of hats. And that's what separates, in my opinion, me from a lot of other people because I get invested in my people

because, number one, I want them to feel like if you hurt me, are you wrong me? Could I curse on this thing? Sure. If they fuck me, okay, then they're hurting me and my family and I went to bat for you.

I fought to get you out. You had nothing, okay? and I went to bat for you. And I gave you that two years or maybe even better. I gave you, I cut time off because you were able to stay out and then make a better deal for yourself. Because if you were in, there's no leverage when you're inside. When you're inside and you're in jail and the DA makes you an offer, why would they give you a good offer? They got the leverage.

They don't need to give you a good offer. But you get out and now your attorney's filing motions and you're looking at discovery. Then the playing field gets even. And I gave you that opportunity. So don't hurt me. I'm there for you. You do right by me. and I'll go the extra effort.

You fuck me. Well, there's a different component. There's a different side to me. How did you get into the business? What was the initial, it's a great story in the book and just kind of serendipitous. It's a true story in the book. At that point, I didn't know one of my best friends who's sitting next to me, Mr. Moses. I was down and out of my luck to no extent.

I tried to become a sports agent. I tried to basically, I own nightclubs and bars. I did some other things with people to try to make money. and I was playing professional softball and you said, what the hell is professional softball? Well, I'll tell you what professional softball is. Arc softball, the arc, you would go around to all different types of places to play. North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, California, Vegas, Jersey, Connecticut,

and anybody that's played arc softball on the stands, this tournament's all over the country. And I had a sponsor, and this was his country club. You know, this was his, you know, Paul Newman, Minnesota Fats days, where somebody would stake you to play. So he'd put up the fee, $3,400 to get in the tournament, and we'd play for sometimes $5,000, $10,000 a tournament. And he'd pay some of the other players to play, because I'd say to the guy, I'd say,

listen, I can't play this weekend. What do you mean you can't play this weekend? I said, I've got to work. I'm bouncing in a bar, you know? I got to make the $150 that I'm going to make. But he goes, I'm going to pay you $350 for the weekend and you're going to come play for me. And I said, oh, $3.50, Jesus Christ, I'm going to play. and this is something I loved.

And I couldn't have been more down on my luck. They didn't have chapter 7 and 11 where I felt at that point. I wanted to find another chapter. I was living with my parents. I mean, I was literally living with my parents. I was 29 years old. My ex-girlfriend comes to the door. She's married with three kids and she looks at me and says,

oh my God, you used to live here? I used to come up here for, you know, to hang out with you. I'm like, yeah, well, you know, you're lying. You're like, I just move back and da-da-da-da-da. And she's like, oh, you're going to go to the 10-year reunion for our high school? I'm like, well, what am I going to say? They repoed my car. I'm still living with my parents.

I have no job. And my parents are paying a cable bill. And I basically, that's how I felt. So I'm playing this softball and we go and play in a tournament in New Jersey. But before that, I had a very close friend at the time. And he was a criminal defense lawyer. And I happen to be in his own. office one day and somebody walked in a Hispanic young man and he was like yeah man you know

I'm going to do my time I got to lay up and do what I got to do and and I'm listening to him talk and he's like you know can you get the bond get my house released my mom's house and I'm like he's like man I paid the bonds with $15,000 man that's down the drain I was only out six months and I'm like clicked in my head and I said to my friend I said how do I get in this industry he's like well there's one guy he goes I use one guy and let me introduce you to him out and you can get some lunch so he sets me up for lunch with the guy. And I go to lunch with the guy and the guy basically, he ate for about 86 bucks. I had $100 on me. I couldn't even have a salad for myself. And the guy gave me absolutely nothing. He gave me the Oliver North where you basically just go

around in circles and my head is spinning. So I learned nothing. So I come back to him. He goes, well, how was the lunch? I said, it was great for him. He had chicken paccata. He had fried zucchini. He ended up having some taramisu. We had coffee. He goes, what did you have? I said, I couldn't even order grilled chicken over a salad. I was afraid in my mind thinking in my head, I couldn't order the grilled chicken, so I had the salad. So he says, well, I deal with another guy. And then gives me the number of this guy.

I call that guy, and I meet him for lunch, and the same thing happens. I spent money on lunch and nothing. So I gave up on the business. So now we fast forward to him out in New Jersey. We're playing in a huge tournament. And our sponsor used to say to me, hey, do me a favor. If we get to this Sunday, which a lot of times we did,

and we're in the top 10, which he's going to collect money from. Please don't go out all night and drink and go crazy. And now you're going to stand something. I'm single. I live with my parents. Okay. I'm playing second base and I could play hammered.

So he would say 12 o'clock curfew, I'd be like, no problem. 12.15, I'm literally leaving the hotel door. Now I'm taking three other guys with me who were like unbelievable. And he hated me for that. But we would go out to all. So we came in like 4.30 in the morning. We walked into this Ramada Inn in New Jersey. and we walk in and I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna even stand I think I might have at that time Jose Cuervo that was my drink because he didn't even have Patron or Don Julio at this time and I come in and I'm hammered I tell the guy can you give me a wake-up call and you know yeah sure so you know I go back and seven-thirty knock on my door we have an 815 game finally I wake up them all I asked for a 7 o'clock or a 630 wake up called nothing so guy comes gets me a run out we come back and we we we I think we went two and three or three or three

three and two that day, came back in like three o'clock. We played game after game. I'm completely hung over. I'm in the sun. And I look to the guy, go, how could you not give me a wake-up call? He's like, oh, geez, I'm sorry, blah, blah, blah. I go, you don't even have alarm clocks in the room. So he says, oh, my God, right.

He goes, well, tell the owner he's walking in. And this little old man walks in. He looks like George Burns from the Sunshine Boys. And he has on a little, you remember those little watches that used to sit, the pocket watches, one of them. He has a three-piece suit. I said, hey, I said, no alarm clocks in the room? who are you? I go, I'm the guy

didn't get a wake-up call, but I don't want to throw the guy under the bus. So he says, oh, he pulls out a little pad out of his little pouch, which he's sticking right by his chest. He writes down alarm clocks. And I said, blah, blah, blah. I said, where'd you make your money? Real estate now, right away. And he goes, no, bail bonds. And I go, bail bonds. I tried to get into that business maybe

a year ago. I go, and I bring my friend over. I go, and I go, this is my friend. And he says, hi. He goes, I'm a criminal defense attorney. Where do you practice? He goes, Bronx, Westchester, Brooklyn. He goes, You know this one, you know that one? He goes, yeah, he goes, I'm the bank for everybody. I own the insurance company.

I said, really? I go, could I call you? So I write his name down real fast on a Ramada in card, and I told you I can't write very well. So that's why this story is going to get very funny. So I go home. So now I'm sitting in my house, and there's my Jewish mother who's sitting there.

And she comes out, and she's in a little nightgown, and I'm like, should I do what you normally do when you get something like you meet a girl? on a bar, you wait three days to call her, or should I be, who 29 years old, college educated, living with your parents, should I try to make something out of this? So I said, I'm going to call the guy right away.

So I call up and I hear, I go, hello. Yeah, hi, could I speak to Mr. Phil? Yeah, hold on. Hey, what's up? I told you I met you tonight. What? When? What?

And he's 85 years old this guy. I don't remember. I go, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, call this one. So I go, really, he goes, yeah, call him, tell me, Mr. Phil. So I called the guy back up. I said, and it's the guy I had the lunch with $86 bucks

And he says, I go, hey, how you doing? It's Ira Jettelson, how are you? He says, good, good, what's up? I told you, you know, I go, yeah, I go, you know Mr. Phil? How do you know Mr. Phil? Tone changed. Different change. Totally changed.

He says, well, I met him out in New Jersey and then he goes, and when he realized that I didn't really know him, he basically is like, well, but his tone changed right away. He's like, well, I told you, whatever, this, that, whatever. I said, okay, so then I called the other guy Same thing happened. How do you know Mr. Phil?

And I told him, he goes, listen, son, buy a hot dog stand. I go, hot dog stand. He goes, yeah, there's no money in our business. I said, okay. So I get off the thing, and I leave the car down, and now, you know, I was very depressed at that time, going from highs and lowest. I mean, an elevator is nothing compared to what was in my world at that time.

And my mother goes, you sure you wrote that name down? It took two years of frustration, all came out in that three-minute berate of my mother. I know how to write a fucking name down. You think I don't know how to write a name? Oh, what? I'm not college educator. Oh, I went to school.

Oh, you're going to make fun because I live in? And she's like, whoa, I just didn't know if you wrote that name down. I go, I'll prove it to you. So I call up the bonding company. And I said, hello is Mr. Phil. Now it's like a Gordon Gecko moment. They want nothing to do with me. They're like, no way.

I told you we'd buy the two businesses the other side. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's like, and then the secretary's like, and then the secretary's like, I can't put you there. I go, please, please. She's like, I got to know. And she's like, whatever. I go, how do you spell his name? She goes, oh, it's K-O-N-V-I-Z.

And I told you I don't write very well. I wrote K-O-N-V-I-Z when I ran out of the Ramada Inn. I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, it's K-O-N-V-I-Z. She goes, no, it's K-O-N-V-I-I-T. There's a T in there. I go, you sure? She goes, I work for the man for 35 years. I think I know.

So I look at my mother and I go, what are you, Dionne Warwork? What the fuck is this? and she goes up into our little co-op apartment, she pulls down a wedding album. And she goes, is that the guy? I go, oh, my God, that's the guy. She goes, oh, we're related to him. I go, what?

She goes, yeah, we're related to him. She goes, your grandfather went to jail. I go, what? My grandfather went to jail? So now I realize that I'm related to the guy and that my grandfather did time. So she goes, we went, I had no money. Your grandmother was dying of cancer.

I needed money to bail my father out. and we went to him and he lent us money because he wasn't registered in New York at the time to do a bail bond so he gave us money. I go, mom, please, please tell me you gave the money back? She goes, no. I go, you didn't pay the guy back? She goes, no.

I got to be fucking kidding me. So now I got to get back. So I get back on the phone and I said to the secretary, please put me to, she goes, call back after five. So I call back after five. And lo and behold, she gets me and she's like, hold on and he gets on the phone. I go, Uncle Phil! He goes, what?

I go Uncle Phil. And he goes, who are you? I go, I'm a Spucking. I'm family. He had no idea who the hell I was. I told him our relationship. I told him at my mother's wedding. He goes, wait a second.

You're a cone, right? I go, yeah. He goes, your grandfather was Harry. I go, yeah, by great-grandfather. He goes, how are you doing? I go good. He goes, you want to be in the Belbonds business? I said, yeah.

He says, I'll be out here next week. Now, Grant, there's a lot more in the book. where I had to go out and I had some issues and he helped me through it, but that's how I got into business. Crazy. Serendipitous, unbelievable. So early on, you're taking anything pretty much, right? I take anything.

And at that point, did you have kids yet? I did not have kids. So how long were you in the business before your daughter was born? My wife now, who obviously was my girlfriend when I first got into, is one of the main reasons how I was able to pass the state exam and get my license. and totally supported me to no extent. You ever see the scene in Rocky 2 where Rocky has to read, he does his first ad in the morning,

I put it on, it smells nice. Blake is like, Blake's like, Charlie is shy, helping and read, I'll be right, get him through the next level. She basically is like, you know, you're not getting a piece of ass until we figure out you passing this test, you know.

I want a ring, it doesn't have to be a big ring. And I'm like, okay, no problem. And she is my rock, she's my soulmate, best friend. Without her, I'm not even here today. I mean, and I'm not saying this, and Danny knows it better than anybody because our wives are very close. She is the, she's a bondsman's wife. She's the only Jewish girl from Long Island has no money and came into the relationship like that. But she is the most beautiful, genuine person and understands that if I have to go out in the middle of the night and I'm dealing with whoever I'm dealing

with, she knows how to deal with it and understands how to raise our children and knows how to, you know, do the right thing. It's never a problem. And she was very supportive and understood that. I did not have kids, but I was pregnant. I think she was pregnant. We got engaged in 90, 98, we got married in 99. I was in the business at that point. I'm fascinated by people's families and how they balance, you know, work and family. And obviously what you do 24 hours. Have you ever met my kids? Most extroverted kids you've ever seen. My daughter won't get on a bus without looking to see. If somebody has a red or blue color on, she thinks they're a cripper of blood. I'm like, no, they're just wearing blue today.

So how do you balance it all? I mean, I can't begin to imagine like the number of stories you've got where you're thinking about your family. Obviously, you're working hard for your family. That's the genesis of this whole thing, right? As you said earlier, and that's really what matters. But obviously you're also in a very interesting line of work, right, where I'm sure there's moments of fear, of danger, et cetera. So how do you think about that? How do you balance it's a tough balance it really is it's a very hard balance because again as I stated I am a blue collar guy you know my father worked at Rikers Island prison as a teacher my mother worked in bond with teller I think the most money they ever made together might have been $80,000 growing up we lived in a

tiny co-op apartment and I want my kids to have everything I want to give them what I didn't have I want them to develop and meet people that will help them down the line. So if my son says, hey, dad, I want to get into Wall Street, you know, I call up Danny Moses. And Danny's like, well, where's he want to go? You know, or my daughter says, I want to get involved in broadcasting, you know, and I call up Sarah Wallace from Channel 4 News now, or I call up Dana Miles from Channel 7 and say, my daughter wants to get into that, you know, and she just got out of the news school in Syracuse, wherever she ends up going.

and those are my tentacles. I want to give them everything I didn't have. And more than anything, I know my kids are very good athletes. My daughter is a phenomenal soccer player and a great runner. My son's a great football player and a phenomenal baseball player and a good basketball player. He also fights MMA. And I want to be at every event. I don't want to miss a memory.

And in my business, you know, there are times that people are staying in jail because I'm going on my kids' events during the season. But talk about balance, I think that Danny, you mentioned last time on the cast about how we're out to dinner and I'm trying to have fun and DSK got arrested and you know here's here's possibly the new French president of the world and you know they're pulling them off a plane at JFK and I'm eating dinner you know over at Trey Dice you know and I want to have fun and and you know and that balance comes into effect because now I got to go on my cell phone I got to go outside I got to start putting it together and

you know it's very tough. to do everything. I will say that Ira is the most efficient phone person. You know, if you go out to dinner with people, you have to expect that someone's going to take a phone call every once in a while. It could be a kid. It could be where with IRA, you kind of know, and I was cognizant of not being rude.

And I would say 95% of the phone calls that he takes at dinners, which are business-related, last no more than 12 seconds. It's three questions. Where is it? Who's the guy? Does he own or anything? And then he just hangs up or he just moves on. Or he assigns it to one of his juniors.

But when there's a big one, he stands up and leaves the table because he knows, he goes, I've got to take this. My attorneys, my attorneys, the ones that I've been with me for the longest times, the, you know, the Jerry Shargels, the Ben Broffens, the Murray Richmans, the Frank Rothens, the Peter Frankles of the world. I can go down the line, Ronnie Fischetti, Jimmy DePetro, Joe Muri, Mario Romano. I can keep going on and on. These guys, when they call me, they expect me to get it done. I am the fixer. I am going to fix the problem. Because when I walk into a room, as somebody stated in the courts, you know, there could be chaos.

I become the volume in the room because I am going to make sure that everything gets settled down. And when someone expects me to do it, I'm going to do it. I take my job very serious. And with experience, as Danny mentioned, I know right off the bat. I'm reading you on the phone. I could hear you. That's another thing. That's why I have the flip phone.

I don't have an email. You could not understand an email what's really going on, the sensitivity of the case. You know, I got a phone call from a wife who says my husband got arrested. I don't know where the checkbook is. I hear the dog barking in the background. My sister has to pick up my children because my husband's now in jail. She doesn't know where to go. She has no money because she doesn't even know where the money is because her whole life has been

basically taking care of the family. And now her life gets turned upside down. what, five minutes? And now she's coming to me, and now I'm a social worker, and I'm also a therapist. Then I also deal with him, because now he just lost his job. Now I'm an employment agency, and now next thing you know, he's telling me allegedly what took place. Now I'm a priest and a rabbi. So, and help me fix this for me. And I come in and I fix it. I'm going to read a quote from the book that I mentioned earlier about this, the sources of power, because one of the things that we, I talked about with Danny a lot, I talked about with every investor is, like, what's your

edge? Why are you going to be better than the competition? Why do you have the market share you do in the New York area? Probably the most competitive, I imagine the most competitive kind of bail bond scene in the world. So in the book, you say, this is again about sources of power. On some days, it works out that you draw your power from your clients, meaning you get it by association, meaning you're protected because you've done business with someone big, someone important. On other days, the power is earned. It's more active than passive, which means it has more to deal with who you are, than who you know. So how is that balance shifted over time? The sources of power. I imagine early on it's very little about who you knew. It's what you were. It was your hustle, it was your grind.

But it strikes me that that hasn't, you still do it, you still do all that. And now that other source has just grown and grown. It's absolutely true. In the beginning, you know, it was nothing but just a set of balls. I looked at Ben Rothman one day and I came out of, I had a today's man's suit on for about $99. And, you know, he's walking off of, uh, he's walking off of, an elevator and he looks impeccable and he's so amazing in court and I want his work and he's like, well, I got somebody and I kept staying with him, staying with him, staying with him, until Ben trusted me. So, you know, I still keep those balls together, but it's experienced in its times and you realize what the world of criminality is, what the legal world is really about, you know, the clerks

that run the courthouses, the court officers, the correctional officers, you know, the judges, knowing what they want, you know, criminal defense lawyers, as I explained to you, the edge is that they get the phone call too. Now remember, the client, if God forbid they don't get out of jail, they don't blame the bondsman. They blame the lawyer. So that lawyer is banking on me to get that guy out the door because he wants that X amount of money retainer. So he's like, Ira, make this happen. Retainer! Retainer! But he just understand. that he needs me. And the same thing, I'll get a call from a judge and he'll say I want you to take this case.

I'll get a call from a DA and says, you know, you can get involved, you know, and we trust you are going to do the right thing. And I've had DAs over the years that say to clients, we respect his work. You know, we know who he is. And again, this is a business for me. And they get what they want. They worry about the case. That's where people lose thought.

they worry about the case. The defense attorney could do the case. The DA could prosecute the case. And the bondsman is going to get the defendant to court and make sure that everything's on the up and up. And I have a ton of, the DAs were DAs at that point. And now defense attorneys that I've grown with. You know, they were young kids when I was a young kid, you know, and I've been in the business almost 20 years. And now they've been out and we've grown together.

And we laugh and we joke and we say, look at your office now. You know, look what it's become. So that power, that source of power, comes with experience and time, but you can't lose where you came from. And that's a big part of it. I mean, listen, Danny's in this room and you're in this room, and you guys have been in the investment world.

People, when they come to you, they expect your experience and your knowledge. You're not going to get them into a made-off situation. So they come to you knowing that they could trust you and they could respect you and you're going to get the job done. Too bad that was federal made-off. You could really use that one. I actually got called on that case.

Really? Yeah, I got called. on that case. I was going to do a bond for one of the people. I don't want to mention the name. And she didn't have enough. And she was incarcerated. And the attorney came to me and said, put something together. Now, I've written before in the federal bureaus, it's not often, but I've written in there where they come in and they've asked a bail bond said to piece off the rest. And I've done it. And I have the highest respect for those people, too. I almost got involved in that case. Back to just to round out that edge, you know, it's such a freaking powerful lesson, which is, it seems like intense,

reliability, consistency, and empathy. People know that they're getting that from you. And that would be true of anyone in any job anywhere. And it's amazing how few people are that reliable all the time. I take phone calls at one in the morning. I take phone calls, you know, at all times of the night. And you, again, with the flip phone that I have, you could hear. I spoke to a woman today that spoke broken English.

She was Hispanic. And I couldn't understand a word she's saying. not because she was speaking bad English, she was crying for the whole time of our conversation that her 21-year-old son was with six guys, they got pulled over, there was drugs in the car, and all six of them got arrested,

and he had nothing to do with it. And she's like, I couldn't understand it. And finally, I had to calm her down, and I'm like, I will take care of this for you. I will figure it out. But after the tears, but you feel that, you feel the empathy. You know what that client in an email,

you're not hearing the tears. You're not reading the tears. You're not sensing the moment. And that's the part of my business that I think is different than anybody else. Because I, hey, listen, people look at me and they might say, well, wait a second, I already. You're taking out a bad person.

And I'm like, well, everybody has the right to bail. But, you know, sometimes you talk to, I've had people walk in my office. And basically, like, man, I sell guns. That's what I do, man. I grew up in the hood. And, you know, this is how. how I make my living. My mom's strung out. I don't even know who my dad is right now. My grandmother

raised me. And, uh, you know, this is how I got to earn and I'm slinging. And that guy, I trust him more than anybody I grew up with because that guy, if I need anything, has my back. And that guy, if I say to him, don't fuck me, he goes, you think I'm jumping, man? If I got to go layup. Layup is a turn of going to do time. I'll go lay up. Now, I call that guy when he's inside because when a hedge fund guy gets arrested for stealing $20 million from a company, and he goes inside and he walks on the yard and he's shitting his pants and I reach out to that guy's mother

and say make sure that he's okay for his two year stretch and then he's in the law library doing all these other people's appeals but he's being protected inside and he comes out and he looks after me and says I'll never forget that you saved my life

and I say well don't just remember me remember the guy that was inside watching your back all the time and I send his mother $300 and say you know tell Carlos thank you very much I mean that means everything because he didn't forget me.

And that respect goes a long way. Because I tell you right now, I trust people more in my industry than people I grew up with. Tell me about a case in which you got extremely emotionally involved, maybe more than what you would expect it going into it and kind of how that played out. I'll tell you there's a story.

A lot of the sexual components of the stories I get involved in where young kids are involved always, grabs my heart a little bit. And I'm trying to go back to a story where a guy came into my office, hardworking iron worker in the union. And he had a young daughter, and he was away for a little while himself. And his daughter was living with the wife. And he was a hard working strong guy. and it turns out that the daughter became very quiet around him after a period of time and he couldn't figure out where it was and he ended up finally he got the daughter on the weekends and he ended up finally getting the daughter and the daughter said says listen mommy's boyfriend's been

touching me molesting me and this guy could not believe it and the guy got pinched for it because finally after a while the girl kept making complaints and making complaints to the school and the school is the one that called because the mother never did anything because the mother wanted the guy to stay because he was paying the bills and this guy walked in my office and he was steaming and we bonded

no pun intended with the fact that I'm a father and he was a father and he felt so guilty that he was away during the time that his daughter needed him. Now he's this iron worker and he's working his ass off making X amount of money and he's got his kid and now his kid's molested

by this animal And he wants to do something. So he wants to bail the guy out to go to work on him. And I sat with him for about an hour expressing to him that the first thing they're going to do is come back to you. You can't do this. You can't do it this way. So a plan was devised where somebody else bailed this gentleman out and this guy got out. And something happened to this gentleman, which I don't really know exactly.

but allegedly he was canned, where the word can means is you put a certain amount of soda in a pillowcase. The movie Bad Boys with John Penn. Yeah, yeah. And this guy was hurt pretty bad. In fact, he was in the hospital for a very long time. I don't know what happened. I don't know how it happened.

And then he was actually convicted, and he's doing time upstate. And the craziest thing happened to him when he was upstate. He was shanked. Again, I don't know what happened. But I had heard that he was shanked inside. And then I heard he was in protective custody. And I have a relationship with that gentleman to this very day. And this guy got custody of his kid.

I think his kid is doing well. I haven't spoke to him in quite a long time. But situations like that, it's almost where you don't have control. There's a part in the equalizer. I don't know if you've ever seen the movie The Equalizer. when Denzel is sitting on the porch with the former CIA person and she says, Robert, why? And he goes, because you can.

And at that point of my life, the street part came out of me and also the father part came out of me and I just looked at this man's eyes and this guy was a tough son of a bitch. He saw it. His hands, he were huge. You want to talk about getting gripped?

And he was a baby. He was in tears. because he couldn't protect his child. And he knew that this guy was going to get out. And we talked, and we talked. And it ended up working out for him. He was able to move on and get his kid. And unfortunately for the other gentleman, it really didn't work out.

I think he had a bad road in the beginning. And then again, you know, I had heard that he had got shanked inside, which is a terrible thing. Anybody see Richie? Anyone, I don't want to know where Bobby Lupo is. Exactly. But, I mean, listen, you know, every bail that you do, you get attached to. And then just so you know, there's other sides to it where you realize you're taking somebody out and on a vehicular manslaughter on a DWI. And that person just killed somebody.

And that's, you know, there's been, I'll tell you a great story. I almost left the business. I had been involved in the beginning. I did a bail for John Taylor. I don't know anybody remembers that name. Well, I did a bail for him, and it was a $3,500 bail. What are you? $3,500 bail, right?

You know, that's like, you know, urinating on the street. And it was a gentleman that had a gun, but the gun wasn't loaded. It was at first arrest, never in trouble. The defendant was a manager of a restaurant. And I did this bail. So I did the bail, unbeknownst to me, He went in, got out on bail, and he went and shot a few people at Wendy's. I don't know if anybody remembers that years ago.

And when the DA's office called me up and said, hey, we need that file. I said, sure, what did he do? And I put two and two together. And it killed me that I had done a bail, and I remember speaking to my wife about it. And I said, Blake, I said, I just, look what I did. She goes, listen, she goes, it was a 35. If it didn't go to you, they went into somebody else. I said, I just don't know if I want to be in this business anymore.

I don't know if I could handle that. She goes, you're providing a service. Just don't get attached. But unfortunately, I get attached. So it killed me because I had a tremendous amount of guilt in a lot of sleepless nights. Because you do business and you do bail for people, and that could happen. And it's happened before. I always thought that I would be nervous if I was IRA because one of the,

people that he bailed out that they think they owe IRA the money would come after IRA. And they're on the run. They're like, if I can get rid of Ira, I get rid of the trail. Because people would think short-sighted things like that. Like to me, I always like, Ira, you got some guys that are out there right now. Are you concerned at all? He's never really concerned about it. I'm not concerned because even though I turn down a lot of bailes all the time, the people in the alleged gangs, people in the alleged underworld, I'm there, get out of jail card.

I'm their guy and I'm their bank. You know, I'm their Willy Wonka. So you got to take care of me. And they do. I've walked into rooms. You know, I've actually walked into a funeral once and I'm ready to pay my respects. And a guy comes up because, Ira, listen to me. And the cops came in and I go, whoa, can I just go pay respects to John over here?

He goes, yeah, but after you pay respects to John, I got to go. I'm like, all right, let me go through the line. All right, let me pay my respects. Then we'll go talk about your case. I do that. And he's looking at me. over there and I'm not even on line and he goes hold on hold on he actually came and pushed me to the front of the line but I can pay my respects and go back out and I'm like all right and he's

don't worry about it this guy's not going anywhere and I'm like oh you're right but I just want to pay my respect I think not to front run any type of question you have but I think the best story which kind of says it all was when Blake was in labor with their child with the child where you had to go to court and they all waited for you an extra day in prison that was the first time where I actually It was my first big payday in the business. And my wife, Blake, was pregnant when I first daughter. And we had it at a hospital in the Bronx, which we would never do again. And I'll tell you a great story about that, too.

And we're sitting there, and we're walking back and forth. And we already had Mexican food that night just to get this baby out, you know? Because, you know, my daughter now, who's a pain in the ass, became more of a paining ass that night. and the phone rings at like 8 o'clock in the morning after a huge, huge, like, laborist, my wife was in labor for a long time, and it's Murray Richmond. And I love Don't Mori Murray. And, you know, he says, Ira, I said, what's that? He says, listen to me, a big case broke in the Javitt Center.

And there's 15 defendants. I'm representing three or four for Raymond purposes only. Jerry Shargels down there, he's got some. Now, you've got to remember some. These are the gurus of the industry. These are the guys that you want to know. These are the best lawyers around. And what did I?

I was taking pizzerias as collateral. So now I go down and I go, Mara, I can't, and my wife gave birth. I can't get down there. And all I hear in the background is, well, the kid that I use for bail bonds, his wife just gave birth. And then I hear throughout the echoes of all the hallway. So he gets back on it, he goes, they're going to wait for you. I go, what do you mean they're going to wait for me?

He goes, they're going to wait for you. He goes, they're going to wait a night. They'll stay in. They'll get away from their wives. They don't mind. I said, okay, what do I do? He goes, I don't know. We'll talk later.

Go back to your wife. And I went back and I stayed with my kid and da-da-da-da. And now I'm sitting there and I'm trying to put all these bales together. So I'm on the phone with my insurance company trying to pull all these bales together. I have like nine bales and I'm getting properties. And I'm like properties now and it's great. So now the next. day, I come to court and literally, I got to be honest with you, I get to court, I'm so nervous.

And I got all these bonds in front of me. And all the defendants, like I said, the ones that I had, and it was, I think it was a 13 person indictment, or sitting in the jury box. And the place is packed. And I'm not going to mention any names. And I basically sitting there and I got my today's man suit on that I, because me and Blake are just starting out. And I'm sitting there. And the first guy gets up and you're supposed to come out of the jury box, go straight in front of the judge. You got the prosecutors on one side, I get defense attorneys on the other. And he comes up and he's handcuffed. He looks at me.

He goes, how you doing, Ira? It's Paulie. How are you? My wife, Sharisa is in the back over there. He goes, congratulations on your baby. It's awesome. We got a little gift for you. And I'm like, I look up and I'm like, oh, okay, thank you, no, whatever.

And he goes in front of the judge, and the judge sets a bail. And then the next guy up, and he goes, how you doing, Ira? That's my wife Connie in the back. Congratulations on the baby, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, the thank you, and this one, I'm for another seven defendants. And I'm like, holy shit. Now, you've got to understand, a regular indictment

should take no more. This took like two and a half hours, you know, back and forth. And I'm like, oh, God, and now I got to go in front of the judge and give more of the bonds. And I know he's going, he is looking at me. And he takes, and I'm sitting in front of a microphone now, and he pushes it to the side.

He goes, what did you have? I go, I had a girl. He goes, I got two girls and a boy. He goes, by the way, I up to all the bells. He goes, so you can send your kid to college. So I basically finished that day. I go back to my office and in there was homemade wine, cheese, balloons, all gifts from the family.

And I'm like, meanwhile, was my biggest payday ever. So now my wife is calling me. It's like 6.30 and I finally did all the bells, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, this place stinks. You got to get me out of it. here. There's bedpans all over the place. Nobody's speaking English in this hospital. Get me the fuck out of here. So I basically go back. Now, I don't even know how to put a car seat in. So I get the car seat in, which was so she says, bring the car seat up. You got to get me out of here.

I'm not staying here any longer. And I take the whole piece of the car seat out. So, you know, the whole, you sit the car. I took the whole piece out. So I'm walking through the hospital with the car seat. And the nurse is like, and now there's, there were bedpans in there that was sitting in there for all day and she's like look what I took the bed pants and I put him on the front of the nurse's table I go she's like that's disgusting I go that's what my wife's been sitting in

all day and I go I'm taking my kid out she goes you ain't taking your kid out I go yeah I'm taking my kid out so I walked in and I grabbed my daughter because my wife is holding I go I'm leaving they go she has to pass a hearing test I go really I walk up to my kid I go ah and she starts screaming and cry I go

she can hear fine we walked out of the hospital My kid cried all right downstairs because I yelled on her ear. She has implants now, right? She never forgot, but she has miracle ear, actually. My father hears better. He's 81. So let's go to a total different end of the spectrum. I've always been a huge hip-hop junkie.

And so I was shocked to see towards the end of the book, a story about Jha Rule, story about DMX. Maybe pick one of those two and walk through that experience. Well, first things first, Jha, obviously, is going through a tough time right now, but he's a good man. He's a good guy. And in the hip-hop community right now, he's, as that, you know, he's going through a tough time, but he's a good guy. And hopefully he gets out of this.

And I'm looking for it. You're talking about that thing in the Bahamas? Yes. And he's a good man. And I know him. He's not that type of guy. He's not that type of guy. If he, if something went south, he had no idea what was going on. He's not that type of person. And I hope he gets out of this because he's a good man. He really is. And he was coming back. and he owned up to everything he did, he's a good guy. DMX, well, you know, Earl is a whole different, Earl is a whole different guy. I mean, I love Earl like you wouldn't believe, man. I mean, I'm on speed dial with Earl all the time, and I get upset.

I really do. I get upset for Earl, because, AKA DMX, because he had it all. And then some. He had it all. I mean, Earl was doing movies, and he had a great voice. And, you know, he had, he was, I called him surf and turf because he could have done movies and sang. And he had the whole thing going on. And he got hooked, obviously, on some bad stuff.

And, you know, his wife is a sweetheart, and we became very friendly. In fact, in the book, we talk about how I was at, you know, my daughter's, excuse me, my niece's birthday, up in Connecticut, where we are today. And I told DMX, you know, he owed me money. And he was supposed to make an appointment with me three times to pay me. But he has a little bit of a time management problem. And finally he basically said, okay, I'm going to pay you today. I said, all right, he goes, I'll be there at 1 o'clock. And I said, okay, Earl, what time are you coming?

One o'clock? So I'm sitting there and it's 1.30, 2 o'clock. And my wife comes out at 2.30. She's like, we got to go. We got to be at your niece's birthday at 3.30 up in Buildabair in Danbury, Connecticut. And I'm like, all right, and all of a sudden, three o'clock comes and we're on the highway. And it's Earl. where you fucking at? I'm at your house. I said, Earl, you said, one o'clock. I said, I got a, I got my niece's, where's the niece's birthday party? I said it's up in Buildaberry in Danbury. And he's like, I'm coming. You gotta understand something. My sister, I mean, there's just no way she wants DMX and his family at my niece's birthday party. And all of a sudden, we're in traffic come off of the Danbury Mall. And all of a sudden, I just see, and he shouldn't even be driving because most of the

the time he's out for traffic violations and I see him fly on the shoulder and my kid goes isn't that DMX fucking flying on the shoulder? I go yeah what are you doing and I get to the mall and there he is and he gives me my money he's like he's like I'm coming I'm like I go early can't come to my name come come come on I'm coming I'm like I come so he walk in and at that time he was the man and the mall shuts down you want to talk about a frenzy and I'm in builder bear and so is his kids and so was my niece's all her friends and there's Earl's kids and was sitting there

and he goes into I think Toys R Us and spends like $300 on my niece and my sister's like who the fuck is this she's listening to Kenny Chesney I'm like oh this is DMX you don't know Earl

and he sat there and Earl was at my niece's birthday party and he and we have we have a great relationship but he was in Vegas one night and he was all jammed up and he called me and I was like, I'll do what I can for you.

He was in New York on his child support stuff, and he called me. And, you know, I have a lot of great relationships. I have a great relationship with, as I said, Fat Joe. I'm very close. I was close to Earl. Still am. I would do anything. You know, Jha.

You know, obviously I've been involved with Little Wayne doing some work for him down the line. The former ODB, old dirty bastard who, you know, passed away. And, you know, I've done Plaxco Burris. And, you know, I've done Kat Williams. We can go down the line. Lawrence Taylor. Lawrence Taylor. I don't remember that one.

Lawrence, you know, Lawrence wanted to play golf in the Bahamas. And I said, yeah, you can go. Good luck. And I called his house and, you know, his wife started screaming at me. But one of the greatest linebackers of all time. Good man. Good guy. You know, and again, I'm glad everything worked out for him.

What now, 20 years in, gets you excited most? What do you enjoy most? Is it still just the relationships? Is it helping people that... It's the action. It's the juice. It's taking the bell from the beginning and putting it. together. It's knowing that it's going to be a very difficult ride, but more than anything,

is seeing the face of the family when they get their loved one out the door. Because as I said before, sometimes it's good people making bad decisions. And we're in a world every day where people just do a lot of stupid things. A lot of people don't get caught. I always say to my kids, you see a lot of people driving 75 on the highway and at 55 miles on, they just don't get get caught eventually they will but I think it's it's the relationships and it's also more than anything it's the relationships that I've built over the years I mean I have judges that I know very well that you know have gotten sick that I care about you know and we talk off the bench I've have dAs that I'm very close with who's their their families are looking for jobs and I try to help them you know

call my buddy in the in the Wall Street world or call my buddy over at JPMorgan and whatever and or call my friend that's in the Garmin District. And it's like I enjoy helping people. I don't know if the word fixer I'm living that world because as you know, I help everybody. And it's not just in my world. It's in other parts of the world because my tentacles reach to places that no one else could reach to. Ira has, I mean, he could spin off and do a consulting business where he's one person,

you know, he puts out a bail for someone. that person gets out, there's a court order that they can't go near someone else, but the wife doesn't trust it, and she wants a bodyguard. She wants someone to watch this guy, and Ira can do that. I'm doing that now. I'm protecting somebody right now with some guys that I know. You know, she's going to a very bitter situation in her life. I don't even want to say it. It's a domestic situation, and I don't like bullies at all. I teach my son and my daughter. And they've been on the bus before, and I got a phone call, and it's, you know, the principal of school. He says, Mr. Jettleston, I'm like, please call me Ira.

He's, oh, Ira, listen, your son hit somebody on the bus. And I said, my son went to work on somebody in the bus, and he goes, yes, can you come in? And they say, you know, whatever. And I get my son, and he's like, Dad, I'm on the bus, and this kid was being really mean to his other guy. I told him to knock it off. He wouldn't knock it off. And he said, what are you going to do? And I did something.

And I looked at the principal. I said, well, I got no problem with that. So I don't like bullies. I really don't. I don't like people taking advantage of people. And especially a man taking advantage of a woman. Really, it eats me alive. And there's a lot of people who I've bailed out and a lot of people that have been involved with and a lot of my friends.

Well, I call friends today. And that don't like that either. So I'm watching after this woman and making sure that she can go to work. and that she can make sure that her son is safe because she's fearful of her life. You think you'll ever stop? My business? You know, it's funny.

My father is 82 years old and I'm going through a very difficult time in his life right now. And he worked, as I said, at Rikers Island Prison in Spotford in the juvenile detention center there, and he had all these jobs. And I think the worst thing in the world for him was retiring. I think that I always want to work. I always, I like it.

Now, don't get me wrong. I enjoy watching my kids play sports. I enjoy being with my wife all the time. I enjoy my friends. I love my friend here. And, you know, we've had a great, but I love what I do. I could actually say that I get up in the morning and I love what I do.

If you get on the train tomorrow and you look at people going down to the city or anywhere in the country, how many people really love what they do? I love what we do. Not enough. Not enough is right. And the answer is, I don't know. If I found another passion, you know, we talked about it, about doing some different things together, I might want to pursue some other opportunities. I wanted to do a TV show.

You know, I was talking with some gentlemen out in California right now. We're talking. He wants to do a TV show with me. I thought about maybe writing another book. I don't know. I want to do, as I mentioned to you, somebody wants to option my book. And I was talking to you guys about it before. and he keeps pursuing me, pursuing me, pursuing me the option to book because he wants to do a feature film.

I've actually thought about going around to other bail companies around the country and being consultant to help them get their brand going, help to get their business going. I've got a lot of ideas, but again, you talked about balance. I also love my family, and I don't have enough time in the day sometimes. You know, I'm on the field and watching my kids play sports, and the phone doesn't stop. And the funny thing is when it does stop, I get upset because it's not ringing. And when it rings, I get upset because I'm like, well, I'm doing something. So it's a catch-22. But I don't think I would want to get out right now.

You never know. I have been approached to get out and stay involved and let somebody buy my business. I don't know if I would want to do that now. I asked Danny when we had our conversation to describe the things that he would look for in somebody young that he might potentially hire. And it was a really popular answer. and so I actually pulled it and stuck it right at the front of the episode because, you know, I think people really enjoyed hearing that. So I'll ask you kind of a version of the same question, which is there's a lot of people early in their careers that listened to this podcast. What advice would you give people that are still kind of in that feeling it out mode, trying to figure out what they're passionate about or if they've found it trying to figure out how to do a good job?

What are the things from your own experience that you think contributed most to your success or maybe said differently people that work for you? That's a great question. We're in a day and age right now, you know, and I'm trying to teach my kids this, where you play a sport and everybody gets a trophy. And I fucking hate that, okay, more than life itself. Oh, God, little Jimmy, he's playing baseball, he's going to get a trophy, he's in fifth, sixth grade. No, those days are over. Okay, there's a time when everybody plays, and there's a time when you have to earn it.

And there's a time when you get to seventh or eighth grade where you start to play a modified sport, where they, you, and then you get, and everybody's got to make the team, they say, but then in ninth grade they may cut, so you're setting your kid up for failure. And I hate that because I think that you have to earn it. And what I'm saying today is that you got to have heart and you have to have a set of balls and you got to know that to be a winner, you have to be a loser. You have to fail to win. And I failed a lot in a lot of my businesses.

And I finally found a great niche for myself in this. industry. And if I said to somebody young out there is that, you know, it's funny, you go to college and unless you're going to be a doctor or go to MIT and become a space engineer, you're going to come out in this world and this world is not as what you think it is. It's, oh, well, wait a second. This guy's making millions. I'm going to go to Wall Street. Well, no, no, no, no. You got to pay your dues and you got to basically get in there and these clients have to believe in you. And it's hard and I'm telling a young guy nowadays that you get that degree and that degree basically is a key a key into a door to get you an interview to get you a job then it's what you know okay but before that

it's who you know and you got to keep striving and striving and striving and you can't quit because if things come easy okay if things come easy for you your whole life and then you get to a certain level and then all of a sudden it doesn't become easy there's two ways you can go one you can go and become, you know, basically a little spoiled brat and live off mommy and daddy until they cut the lines. So, two, you can work harder. So I only hire, like, I have a guy in Brooklyn. He's an Arabic kid, and this kid is as hungry as they come.

He calls me at 2 o'clock in the morning with a call, could I go do a bell? Of course you can go do a bell. Okay? And that's the guy I want. That's the guy that says, because if I go work, he's making money. He's got five kids. And he's got to support those kids. Okay, and he's got to worry about everything in this world, and he's got to go home to his wife, and his wife believes in him.

But if you get somebody that basically says, well, my job ends at 3 o'clock, I'm not taking that phone call. It's actually the same answer I gave in a different format, and we didn't talk about that at all, but it's funny that that's the exact same. Yeah, I've heard similar versions of the same answer from a lot of people. Listen, I mean, again, I'm not, obviously I'm not the brightest guy in this room right here amongst you guys, but I think you got to have a mixture of show. street and legal in your world. You got to know what you're, you know, you got to have some sort of a, listen, I'm a chameleon. I could talk to, you know, a Harvard grad, and I could also talk to the guy that basically has a third grade education. And that's what I think you also need in a guy that's coming out today. You've got to be able to be a chameleon. You've got to be able to talk and speak

different languages to get where you want to get to. You need passion. That's the overline. It doesn't matter what you do. A hundred percent passion. And you got to work hard. Look at Derek Jeter. Derek Jeter did not get married until he was, what, are he 40? He was doing okay. Well, you know he was doing okay, but the point is that Derek said my career is my career. I don't have time to really right now raise a child.

I don't have time to get married. I want to focus on this. There'll be time. And, I mean, for him, it worked. You know, for other people, you know, but Derek's passion for the game and doing what he did was incredible. And, you know, it's a great foundational format. I wanted to highlight two things you said because I've been thinking a lot about them lately, which is first the willingness to fail.

I think that's maybe the most important part of that answer. But the passion part allows that to happen, right? Like if you have the passion, then failure kind of can feel like nothing. If you're doing something for an impure motive or for, you know, because other people expect you to do it or, you know, whatever, you're following the Harvard. I mean, let's call a spade of spade. I mean, Danny is in the hedge fund world and invests every day. Not everything is a winning investment.

So he has to lose money in a deal to know that he's going to gain money later on. And if everybody was going to gain money all the time, we'd see him in Ocana County Jail, North Carolina, as we see Madoff there now. So, I mean, you know, you can't win all the time. I mean, I've had people to jump on me, and I've had great bails. And listen, I was in the bar business. I was a sports agent. I went down to the Fulton Street fish market. I bought fish upstairs.

I was a bouncer. You know, you got to, you know, I live with my parents. Now, you know, you got to fail and you got to understand what failure is, you know, and say, you can go one way or you can go the other. I'll just add to that. I think the other thing, which I didn't mention when we spoke, is you got to enjoy life to what it gives you. And if there's the points where you get an opportunity to do something fun and experience something, maybe it costs a little bit of money to do. Maybe it's a trip somewhere with a group of people that really opens up your horizons. and I think experiencing the highs is important

so that when you hit the lows, you can realize how great it is to get back to that level. I'm going to give you another thing that I'm going to talk about. This is something I could talk about with one of my best friends right here. How to be about six, little over six years ago. I had lumps on my body. I didn't know what it was.

I was trying to lose weight, and I went to a doctor, and the doctor says, when was the last time you went to your, who's your primary doctor? When I said, why do I need a primary doctor? I'm coming to you, you're my year-in-year-out.

So I want you to see a primary. And I went to the primary. The primary says, I want you to go to this doctor. I said, okay, was anything wrong? Nothing's wrong. You're fine. So I go to the, take my wife, and I walk in, and I see this word on top of the doctor's desk that says oncologist. I'm like, Blake, what the fuck am I doing an oncologist?

I walk into the doctor's office, and they say, okay, we want you to do this. We take him blood. We think you have lymphoma. I'm like, what? They're like, we think you have lymphoma. I'm like, we want you to do this biopsies. So I go and I do a biopsy and it comes back negative. So we're jumping for joy and go back to the oncologist.

And she says, I want you to do this bone marrow and don't want to take a piece out of your stomach. And my wife's like, he's not a fucking cadaver. We're not taking pieces. Well, we think he has lymphoma. We just don't know where the primary is. Long story, very short. I turned around and buddy of mine turned me on to turn me on another doctor, it turns out that I have an autoimmune disease. I didn't have lymphoma. I was supposed to

start chemo, but I didn't. I have what is called sarcoidosis. And sarcoidosis is an autoimmune disease, and it's very rare, but people have it, and it affects your lungs. And when I have a common cold, it's concerning to pneumonia. You have a common cold, and you guys are, you know, taking NyQuil and go to sleep. So I always got to watch that. But it goes back to that day. And he, he left the message on my voicemail. He's almost in tears. And he's like, I'm not going to let anything happen to you. I love you and I'm going to take care of you. And, you know, now our relationship has always been like that. But I realized that day that life is very short, you know, and at any time, health could grab you. And I want to live the moment. We were just talking about,

you've got to live the moment. I've been to the Kentucky Derby with Danny. I've been to crap tables with Danny. I've been out to dinner with Danny. I've been to softball games with Danny. we've been just out to just sitting smoking a cigar in his backyard. And you got to live your life. Never was Sargadosis so celebrated. By the way, I just wanted to say, he goes, We got sarcoidosis, great? You can beat that, right?

Yeah, and we were. I think we went out and celebrated the Sarcados. We did. We did. But that, you know, goes back to my point. You got to live your life. You know, you've got to live your moments. Oprah said one time, die poor.

Live your life. She's easy for her to say, right? She's fucking got everything going for her. You know, she loses weight, she makes fucking money. It's unbelievable. Another, see, wait, we watch your stock. We could have, you know, you know, jumped in on that. Yeah, exactly.

But I really believe that. So that's why I don't want to miss any of my kids' sporting events. And, you know, I want to spend as much time with my wife and laugh and joke. And more than anything, be with my friends. And I think Ira loves what he does, which back to the passion. So the thought of even leaving it would even cross his mind, because, again, he'd be bored, he'd be worried about what he'd be worried about what. what he would do. So the minute that he doesn't enjoy it. Yeah. I mean, I do, listen, there's a lot of

things that I don't enjoy about my business, you know, sometimes fighting with the other side to get somebody out the door, you know, and them using the bail as a kind of a way not to let the client out. And I disagree with that, you know, because you want to win your case, you win your case, you know. And you really can't take a break. I went to Italy. I want to say a couple years back, and I'm in the middle of the sea. I don't swim. I'm with a friend of mine. I don't know how to swim. He throws me a noodle. He calls me noodles now. It's my boy Mikey Cohn. And he basically, the phone is ringing. I'm in the middle of the sea in Capri and a huge case breaks. And I'm on the phone. They're all swimming in the ocean. I'm on the phone going, all right, get the house,

find out the appraisal value of it. Let's get a confession of judgment against the house. Have Michael write the bail. Have Joey write the bail. Call the insurance company. How many people are on it? Okay, who's the DA? Who's the defense? And I'm in the middle of the see doing this. And they're all dancing and singing, you know, but that's my bit. And I love that, that half hour putting that deal day was great. Well, you had to buy the ticket home, so you're able to do that at that point. Thank God.

Yeah, exactly. Thank God. Well, this has been an absolute blast, as I knew it would be. Thanks for all your time, all the great stories, and maybe we'll do it again sometime. Well, listen, we're going to do. We're going to do Belf Street. This is the official launch right here. This is the official pilot, pilot episode of Bils.

There you go. Danny's world and my world do collide all the time. I will tune in and I'll promote the hell out of that one. There you go. Thanks, guys. You got it. Hey, everyone. Patrick here again.

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