Investigate Earth Conspiracy Podcast - Amityville Horror | Demon Possession and the Paranormal Podcasts

Episode Date: August 8, 2025

The Amityville Horror is more than a true crime story—it’s a legend steeped in blood, fear, and the unexplained. In 1974, Ronald DeFeo Jr. murdered his entire family as they slept, later claiming he was driven by voices he couldn’t escape. Just one year later, the Lutz family moved into the same house and encountered something far more sinister than its violent history—paranormal phenomena that pointed to possible demonic possession. From ghostly apparitions to forces that seemed to control the living, their 28 days inside became one of the most infamous hauntings in history. In this episode, we dive into the murders, the supernatural claims, and the dark questions that still linger about what really happened inside the Amityville house.

Aika-ylethirted, Aitcauaccarly or muckilla, because this-pairn't nauru is a humusen lembillah. Tilaeatian-pavoccied 21st, hufticoota. Ifolor.com In a quiet village of Amniville, New York, there's a house that still chills people to the bone,

long after his doors have closed to the public. On the outside, it's just another colonial home on Ocean Avenue. But in 1974, something happened inside those walls that would seem in its place in America's darkest folklore. Six members of the Defeo family were found murdered in their beds. Each shot at close range while they slept. Their son, Ronald Defeo Jr., was convicted of the killings, and that alone is enough to make the place infamous.

But the story didn't end there. A year later, the Lutz family moved in, hoping for a fresh start. And what followed was 28 days a pure nightmare, strange voices whispering from the walls, eyes glowing in the darkness, and doors ripped from hinges, and an unseen force that seemed determined to drive them out. They fled leaving behind their belongings and a mystery that's never truly been solved. Was it all real?

Was the house cursed, haunted, or was it a story crafted to terrify the world? Tonight we're going to walk through the events, the legends, and the chilling details that still make people wonder what really happened in the Amniville Horror House. Guys, welcome to the show. It is August the 7th, 2025. and I'm pretty excited about this episode because, you know, we're not only going to talk about the Amniville horror house and what potentially happened there, right? According to legend, according to the stories, according to the Lutz family. But there's also another side of the story, which will probably get into towards the end of this episode. But Sherry, obviously, we have talked a lot about this.

You know, we've had James on. We've talked about the Book of Benock. We've talked about the watchers. We've talked about evil spirits. We've talked about the paranormal and UFOs and interdimensional stuff. We've even talked to people, including yourself, on this show, about your experiences. And so I'm excited to talk about this and figure out, is this a true story? And besides the Amniville Horror House, does this happen in other places?

And what is the cause of it? Yeah, it's very scary to really dig into these type of stories and things that happen. And especially if you've had personal experiences, not to that point, but it's, if you've even had personal stories or personal things that have happened to you, it's kind of scary to dig into these kind of things because you wonder, God, am I on the way of being possessed? Could this happen to me? So it is, you know, a little terrifying. Yeah.

And there's a ton of actual real accounts from priest, from doctors, from people that have witnessed people that have been possessed. Now, although you guys do not necessarily maybe know the full story of the Amniville Horror House and what maybe happened there that night, what it kind of ties into is demonic possession. And it seems like if Defeo, which was the son, the 23-year-old, that killed his entire family, if he was possessed, right? Does this happen often?

We've talked about this on other shows before, where you hear about these people that go and murder their entire families. And oftentimes some of these people would be reported by their friends or family to say, I cannot believe this could ever happen. This guy loved his kids. He loved his wife. He loved his family. He did everything for them. And then for some reason at some point, this person snaps. Everything changes in their life. It's like the devil takes over their body or their mind. And is that possible? You know, I know in court cases, for example, you have what is called, you know, when you try to declare someone mentally unstable or insane to where they cannot or should not be held to account for what they did. that is what lawyers try to do to many clients, many of their clients that commit these heinous murders or heinous acts, they tried to declare them insane or mentally unstable or whatever the case is, schizophrenic, you name it.

But in many cases, it's hard to get them declared at all. And most of the times, these type of criminals will stand trial. Yeah. But what's scary too, when we're talking about people murdering their families is the mothers, especially, that kill all their children. or when they say, God told me to do it. Yeah. I had to do it because God was talking to me.

Jesus was talking to me when you have people that do it for, quote, religious reasons. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's the same exact thing. You know, for example, the Heaven's Gate cult, for those that do not remember the Heaven's Gate cult, this was a cult of quite a few people that all killed themselves. And they all believed in their cult leader, what the cult leader said, that, you know, God was coming to take them up. and but they had to drink this poison and able to really interact with him.

Obviously, yeah, you're going to interact with someone after you drink poison if you believe in the afterlife. But there are many cults. There are many people that people follow out there that, you know, in some cases lead them astray. Now, this has also obviously been for heavy debate as far as the people that are psychic. You know, the people that say that they can reach out and communicate with a dead loved one for you. And so oftentimes, you know, people reach out to these people. These people sometimes actually know specific things about their dead loved ones. The question is, are they talking to the dead loved ones or are they talking to a demonic spirit that knows about their dead loved ones that is trying to interject or at least get some type of pathway into you and into whoever this person is supposedly psychic?

And it worries me about psychics too. You know, I get the point with the psychics that are reaching out to dead loved ones or whatever like that. I don't feel like that's the responsible thing to do. But what happens when you have people that, you know, even like I've talked about stories where things come to you in dreams or they come to you, you don't reach out looking for it, but it comes to you. Yeah. What does that mean? Yeah.

I mean, there's a lot we're going to talk about on this show tonight. We're also going to play some clips of, you know, Catholic priest and some doctors that have actually witnessed exorcisms. They have witnessed people that have actually been demonically possessed. and some of the stuff that these people do when they are demonically possessed, you know, very similar to movies that you've probably seen, where,

you know, the exorcist, for example, the movie and some of the crazy stuff that the girl did in the movie where she's throwing up all this stuff. She's climbing walls. Well, according to some Catholic priests,

this actually does happen when people are possessed. And so it's not also just so easy to get those people out of possession. And possession doesn't, always show itself in all cases. It doesn't, you know, just show up 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There are times when the devil can infiltrate on a deeper and darker level and they use all types of pathways to get to you. Now, we've had so many episodes on this show where we've talked about our biblical or spiritual beliefs or journeys. And I think that's very important in today's world. I honestly do. I think it's important to be grounded spiritually in some way because

there are so many facets out there. If you believe that demons are real, and if you believe anything in the Bible, the one thing the Bible always talks about is that we do not wrestle with flesh and blood, but with principalities and, you know, I guess basically the spirit world. So the evil spirit world, the Bible specifically talks about demonic spirits on the earth. And that is what you are going to have to deal with. It's not a flesh and blood. It is the other side that maybe we can't see. That is what is going to infiltrate you. And God himself, not God, but just. You are going to deal with. It's not God. But Jesus himself would actually perform from what I've read exorcisms on people back in the day. And that's what many scholars believe that he was also one of those that would try to cast out the demons from some of these people that are possessed. The possessions have go back thousands of years and it's not just new to today. And interesting to me, I did talk to some of my family members that are Jewish. And I was asking them one night what their thoughts of being possessed meant to them. and if they thought it was real or if they thought it was demons, just because a lot of people, when they say somebody's possessed and they have to have the demons out of them,

you have to use a priest and you have to use Jesus Christ. So I was just curious about like what the Jewish faith thought about that. And from what I gathered, they believe pretty much the same thing Christians do, that it is Satan that you are talking to and you have to have those demons revealed and they have to come out of you through spiritual ways. Yes. Yeah, and the Catholics have a very specific way they do this, which we're going to play a clip or two a little bit later in the show. But before we get in that, I do want to say that many of you have actually asked about our YouTube channel. It is C-free Live.

That is how you can look up the channel. Sherry's also going to have our own channel on there, but we are going to live stream Saturday. I think we're going to start with American Truck Simulator. I know it sounds crazy. But we're going to have fun. Sherry and I are both going to be driving semi-trucks across the lands of the United States. We're going to be having conversations of you guys. So make sure that you go and follow the C-free Live over on YouTube.

And I am a very trained truck driver just so you know. We will see, guys. We will see. But also, speaking of that, they have so many games out now. And this channel is not just going to be for gaming. We're going to do commentary. We're going to do all kinds of stuff. Sherry's going to have her own channel.

Mostly, I guess, I guess you can say capitalizing on the true crime stuff. You're going to be talking more about true crime, trials, etc. my channel is going to be more for like commentary, gaming, stuff like that. It's going to be a fun channel. We will still talk about conspiracy, stuff that we can talk about on YouTube. So when we're driving on American Truck Simulator, or maybe we're playing a horror game, or maybe we're reviewing video of some type of crazy incident, whether it be paranormal or whatever, we're going to do really fun stuff like that over there.

And we want you guys to be able to join us. Not all of our videos are going to be live, but we are definitely going to have at least probably two live streams a week. so we do want you guys to come join us that is see free live on youtube that is absolutely the best way you can find us and as soon as sherry actually gets her channel going and we will let you guys know what that channel will be called so we're very excited about it this is not going to you know affect this at all investigators podcast this is our number one passion and love we've done this for so long and we're very excited about the content we have coming for the show but without further ado let's go

ahead and get into the official story behind the Amnivow Horror House. Here you go. Aika-uilettta-u-cissed-a-uvigel, because this-pairvon-nauruon-huomishen lembilch. Tilaeatian-ppavoccivigua. Ifolor.com, Tapaamme yet. 5 number, 5 viette, Arvauksia, Poveria

Palkintona X-Pengg-G-6 Sackco, Towsin'om time, to record, codaosotees Power.5-coutta-X. Don't get it from.

A good horror story is even more chilling when it is based on a true one. Whichever way may be portrayed, either through books, other mediums, the fact remains that the events that occurred was once upon a time someone's haunting reality. In this case, it was the realities of the Defeo and Lutz families during their time in their Amityville home in New York. In the autumn of 1974, a family of seven would

suddenly be reduced to just one surviving member, the one who committed the crime. Before that fateful night, the Defeos weren't exactly a happy household, with rumors of Ronald Sr. being hostile, abusive, overbearing, and dominant. His way of fathering is believed to have caused Ronald Jr., also known as Butch, developed into a troubled young adult. The Defeo's owned an auto body shop where Butch was employed, but he would often spend his time at bars instead of at work. Butch eventually became addicted to drugs and alcohol, which led him to become violent towards his family. An incident had occurred where he reportedly pulled a gun on his father, and there were other times where he would physically lash out at his family. In the early hours of November 13, 1974, Ronald Butch de Feo Jr. snapped.

With rifle in hand, Butch went from room to room, murdering his family members one by one as they slept. One of the peculiar things about this incident is that while the murdering unfolded within an estimated 15-minute time span, the way the bodies were found showed no signs of struggle. In addition, the sounds of gunshots oddly did not wake any of the other family members. members, or at least it didn't draw them on the bed. The bodies were found all face down on their beds, as though they'd been positioned that way. To add to the strangeness, the rifle reportedly had no silencer, and aside from the family dog barking, none of the neighbors reported hearing even a single gunshot going off that night,

after horrifically murdering his own family, which took a bath, got dressed for work, and eventually reported the murder, claiming he discovered the grisly scene after arriving home from his job. He went so far as to propose that it was the work of a mafia, a hitman, accompanied by two accomplices. He said that they showed up at his house that morning, put a gun to his head, and forced him to kill his family members. His alibi wouldn't last long under scrutiny, where Defeo eventually broke under pressure, admitting to the murders. He later showed police where he had discarded the rifle and the bloodstained close. In his confession, he stated, Once I started, I just couldn't stop. It went so fast. It was said that Ronald Jr. was hearing

voices that influenced him to carry out the murders. However, the prosecutors had a psychiatrist argue against that, who had diagnosed Ronald with antisocial personality disorder, meaning that Ronald hadn't actually been hearing voices, nor had he been possessed by another personality. He just thought that the killing of his family was not wrong. Defea was convicted by a jury for six counts of murder and sentenced to six consecutive life terms, which he is still serving at the Sullivan Correctional Facility in New York. There is still a theory that a second killer was also present, but never caught. Just a little over a year following the mass murder of the Defeo family, the Defeo residents on Ocean Boulevard would become the dream home for a new family,

the Lutzes. With the Amityville home riddled in its gruesome past, one can't help but wonder about the possibility of a residual energy lingering on the property, haunting the ground it was trapped on. But one wouldn't have to wonder for very long, before the Lutzes would come forth with their alleged not-so-housewarming stories. After house-hunting for what seemed like forever, George and Kathy Lutz finally came across a listing for what they didn't realize at the time was the Defeo home. They decided to check it out,

and while the house was over their original budget of $30,000 to $50,000, they, for some reason, found themselves drawn to the attractive, hip-roofed colonial house with six bedrooms, a heated pool, and a large boathouse on the Amitaville River. And despite being informed about the house's murderous past, the lutses fell in love with the home and decided it would be theirs. They purchased it at the bargain price of $80,000 and never once considered the house to be uninhabitable due to its past.

All right, I want to pause for a second because I got to ask everybody a question. This is the same question I asked you, Sherry, earlier, is that if you found a house that was your dream home, right, a beautiful, gorgeous colonial home or whatever the case may be. And then in the very end, you're very excited about it. You and your wife are like, oh, my God, this is a dream come true. but what is the catch? Like, what is the catch of this house? And then the real estate agent says, by the way, there was a gruesome murder here where someone killed their entire family.

Would you still purchase the house? What did you say, Sherry? I said, no. I don't care what the cost of the house is. I would not be moving into a house that somebody was murdered in, ever. And even if I didn't know, I mean, I would know because you get signs, I would think. Well, that's the thing about Indian burial grounds, for example, is they're very sacred. and Indians and many people actually have always held their burial grounds to be sacred places.

And there's a reason why there are many laws around you cannot build near or out, you know, on certain grounds that have once been a burial ground. And there are places, you know, even in South Carolina, for example, you can go in the middle of the woods in certain areas. And you can find burial grounds that are not necessarily designated as a burial ground. You will find old headstones. It depends on where you go. A lot of this is privately owned property.

And actually, it used to be near where my family owned property, there was burial grounds up on the mountains up there. And, you know, part of my family did come from like the Indian side of things, right? So, and it was also always very interesting to where when we found some of these, this burial ground at the top of this mountain before, you know, there was nothing ever on top of these grounds, you know, where you could almost tell where the bodies were, I guess you can say. And there were little headstones. I mean, I'm talking about like rocks that were kind of triangle. looking there were barely things carved out you could almost not even recognize but you could tell something was carved out on these rocks but you would also know that these were burial grounds and it was always very interesting to me because there was never anything on top of them there was never

grass growing on it there was usually never even leaves over it and i remember there was one time we were up on the mountain and you know this was property that no one should have been on and we were probably a mile or two back and one day we just happened to to walk up there and or hike up there and we started seeing like a clothes line from one tree to the next and on this clothes line there were these little cloths and these cloths had some type of like demonic looking thing on a horse and each of them had like a different scene and they were almost like see-through cloths but they were printed and it looked very old even though it wasn't old because this was the first time we had seen this cloth like thing and then there were other

type of like vine things that were made out of vines and you know i can't even remember or tell you what those things were but they were hanging in trees in this certain pattern and this was right near where the burial grounds were and when we saw it even back then when i was like you know 12 or 13 years old i was like this stuff looks demonic like whatever they're doing here looks very strange and so it was always kind of freaky and it was always near this burial ground and um but yeah for sure. I mean, you wouldn't want to screw with stuff like that. And in particular, in this case, that's why I wanted

to ask everybody listening, would you buy a house, and you guys can tell us on social media or wherever you want to reach out to us, would you buy a house that you knew some heinous act occurred? And I'm sure there's also people out there. Like, for example, we just heard that Matt Rife, I don't know if this is true, but TMZ

has reported that Matt Rife has bought the museum where the Annabelle doll is stored. Now, I don't know if the Annabelle doll is missing or whatever there was speculation that it was missing we don't know for sure but what we do know is that matt rife according to tmz has bought the annabel museum which is i think um i don't even know where exactly where it's maybe is it like an old house well it's it's it's like an old house but it's a museum it has the annabel doll encased in a glass case they also have a lot of other lore as far as the paranormal

goes and kind of the story behind the annabel doll but yeah he bought this and matt rife is crazy matt rife is so into like the paranormal stuff he's been on like of ghost hunts, you know, with the people that, uh, do the ghost hunting show on travel channel Zach is his name. But yeah, so Matt Rife's kind of all into that. But yeah, he recently bought that and especially strange considering one of the guys that was traveling with the Annabelle doll, which we talked about in the previous podcast, died recently after traveling and taking this thing, I believe to Gettysburg area. Um, and so now Matt Rife has bought the Annabelle Museum. So very weird, very strange. I do got to find out if it's true.

if the Annabel doll is actually missing or not. It's been speculation back and forth. I don't know. Let's listen to more of the story. Similarly to the Hollywood portrayal, kills his whole family. Doesn't they bother you? Sure, but...

They felt that. Houses don't have memories. But the Lutz's dream home would quickly become one of a nightmare. The events that soon followed would eventually be known to the public through the work of author Jay Anson, who wrote and captured the events

in his infamous book, The Amityville Horror. Prior to moving into the house, George Lutz was an active businessman, but immediately after moving in, he underwent a sudden personality change, becoming sluggardly, chilled, and cranky. He found himself waking up at 3.15 a.m. every night and was unable to go back to sleep. Come to find out, it was at this time that the Defeo murders took place. One night, he saw his five-year-old daughter, Missy, standing by her bedroom window,

with the outline of a pig's face with red eyes behind her. He quickly ran inside her room, only to find his daughter, Sound asleep. Shortly thereafter, Missy began speaking of a new friend she was playing with, a pig named Jody. In another chilling instance, George looked down in his wife Kathy while she was sleeping and saw her face had changed and seemingly aged her as if she was a 90-year-old woman. Apparently part of the house's effect on Kathy was that she would go through periods where she age unnaturally fast and appear to be another person altogether. This was reportedly also witnessed by her mother. Strange things continued to happen, such as Doris'

ripped off hinges, a room full of flies in the middle of winter, cloven hoofprints and the snow just outside their doors, green slime oozing on the walls, and the discovery of a secret room in the basement that was nowhere on the house's original blueprint. This room was painted blood red, and was only big enough for two people to sit intimately close. It also gave off an intermittent odor. George even tried to take their family dog down there, instead of the attempt, He just wouldn't go in. He backed away. It's the only time I can recall him ever cowering from something.

One night, George heard the sound of a band playing downstairs, and when he went into the living room to investigate, there was no one there. But the rug had been rolled up, and the furniture had been moved as if someone had made space for dancing. The priest they enlisted to help them also experienced a variety of strange phenomena and illness after getting involved with the house.

The amitival horror author Jay Anson said, meeting the priest solidified his decision to write the book, saying, Because it was corroboration. This was actually happening to someone. This was not an exorcist or an omen. From there, I started to create the book. On January 14, 1976, after just living 28 days in their new home, a particularly scary night drove the lutses to suddenly pack their bags,

leaving the rest of their belongings behind, never to return again. They didn't expect to leave forever that day. according to a 2005 interview with George Lutz We didn't get up to leave that morning, you need to understand that. This was our house. We lived there. When we left, we didn't know we weren't coming back. We didn't know that what we were leaving behind, we would never see again. Their belongings at the house, according to a Washington Post article from 1979,

were to be auctioned off later. The Lutz's shared the supernatural phenomena that they experienced in their time living in the Amitaville house with Anson, who eventually turned their true story into an instant best-scent. seller in 1977. The LA Times hailed it as fascinating and frightening. Some critics have said that its popularity reflected the rocky political climate in the United States at the time, which included rampant inflation, rising interest rates, and a massive oil shortage, all signaling a depressed economy.

As the narrative unfolds, the reader also sees the family struggling as their business is impacted by the failing economy, as well as an IRS investigation into the family's taxes at the worst possible moment, making everything in the family. the book all too familiar to readers who were living a similar reality at the time. By aligning something supernatural with the current events of American life, the book turned out to be very relatable. It was also said to have exploited contemporary popular trends of the pulp horror genre, including a family patriarch who was drinking in mean and out of his normal character, as

seen the Shining. Enlisting or forcing a priest to help them against his will or better judgment, like the Exorcist, as well as excessive vomiting, also in the Exorcist, and even the setting of a northeastern beach town, like Jaws. When asked if Anson himself had experienced anything strange while writing the book, he said, Leave it, no. Though he did know that he had a heart attack after writing it, which he felt was unrelated. Blame it on my smoking, my idiot lifestyle. I'm not going to blame it on this.

However, Anson did say that some of the people who had read the original manuscript or had early copies in their possession did have strange things happened to them. Three of his friends, along with one of their children, had separate brushes with death. One was fatal. The first had a fire break out in his car as he was driving back to the publisher with the manuscript. The second friend and his son nearly drowned in their car while a copy of the manuscript was in their trunk. Reportedly, when the car trunk was opened, the only thing that was still a dry inside was the manuscript, despite the fact that it had only been held in a class envelope.

And the third friend, whom Manson had given the first two chapters to read. died in a fire the first night she received them, and in the remains of the fire, the manuscript was found in perfect condition. There have been several film adaptations of the story, including a 1979 version starring James Brolo. I'm coming a fire! And a 2005 version starring Ryan Reynolds,

both actors taking on the role of George Lutz. The book in both movies are loyal to the setting and the true backstory of the house where a grisly mass murder had occurred. Both films were said to deviate from the original story slightly, to add to the terror of the hauntings. All right. I want to pause here because as this clip here says that it does deviate a little bit,

but we actually have the official interview from Good Morning America back in the 70s with the Lutz family. And it's kind of hard to find, but we have it. We're going to play it in just a second. But I do have something to say here. You know, Ronald Sr. This was Ronald Jr., also known as Butch, the guy that killed his entire family. you know, Ronald Sr. was abusive. He was a big drinker. He abused his family. This was something in the household that had a lot of trauma, I guess, placed on Ronald Jr. And, you know, there's something always say about alcohol because...

Aika-uetttae-a-upper-kicklea or mukilla. Sillop a day's naurro on huomisen, Lovilaw. Tilaeatian Paivaccivić-toe. Salku X, tap us. We're never 5 numeroa, 5 vihietta, Arvautsia,

Patherly Poweria. Palkintona XP NG-K-S Sacko, Towsin-omaxe. 10-weekquo-a-artka in Coddic Kautta F

Couttax. Don't get kind of Kiddist. If you're ever in like Fire Department or, you know, EMS or law enforcement, you know that alcohol contributes to so much of the crime that you see,

especially domestic. I mean, domestic is heavily contributed to alcohol in so many ways. And if it isn't alcohol, it's drugs or something else. And oftentimes the people that are subject or, I guess, recipients of that violence as a child oftentimes replicates that as they grow up. or you know for example like if your father was a smoker or your mom was a smoker you're likely you're more you're much more likely to become a smoker because you grew up in that environment same thing with alcohol and also same thing with abuse same thing with trauma same thing with

all of that stuff cycles often repeat itself and so was this ronald senior thing being abusive and being a big time drinker to his family to where ronald junior butch was so troubled that one day he broke mentally and decided to kill everyone in his house. Now it doesn't make a lot of sense because from all the reports that we know about Ronald Jr., he loved his brothers and sisters. And so why would he kill everyone, especially if it was the subject of his dad, Ronald Sr., that was doing all of the torture, the mental abuse and physical abuse in the house. Why would you kill your entire family?

Why wouldn't you just go after your father? Yes. Now, the other thing is, as this clip, says that Ronald Jr. at one point time did blame this on a mafia hit. Now, the interesting thing about the mafia hit story, Ronald Jr. actually, he had been interviewed, which we are likely also going to get to to hear his side of the story before. Sherry, when did he, he's dead now, right? He died in 2021, I believe. But before that, I think in, was it 19, not 1920, 18.

I believe was the interview. Yeah, somewhere around her. That they conducted with him. Yeah, so he had an interview. He told various stories and even told various stories to other people prior to the interview. And he said, look, I told these various stories. But if you get into his past, his family's history, his family was not necessarily good people. I think a lot of Ronald DeFaio Jr.

I think his family was mafia. I do think they were mafia. Or involved. Yeah, because he even talked about at one point in time that. you know, he went in the basement to retrieve three million dollars. And this was back in probably the late 70s, early 80s at least to retrieve three million dollars for his dad or his uncle or something. It sounded like all of his uncle and kind of family members were involved in mafia, and mafia related stuff. And, you know, one of the things, one of the stories that he had told at one

point in time is that he believed this was a mafia hit that they pinned on him. And this is all very possible. There was money involved in all this stuff, everything. But the big question is if it was a mafia hit or if he did just do it out of nothing and then the Lutz family moved into this house and experienced very, very similar weird, eerie occurrences. Why did that happen? I want to play the clip now of the Good Morning America interview with the Lutz family. This is the family that moved in after the Defeos. Right. This is Kathy and George. Kathy and George Lutz. And This is from, I believe, 1979, maybe? Yes, it was, yeah, 1979.

Yeah, I think it's 1979. So let's go ahead and play that clip now. November 1975, six people were killed in an awful mass murder. I don't know. It's got to be awful in a small town in Long Island. The town is called Amityville. The murders took place in this house. One year later, George and Kathleen Lutz bought the house,

and they moved into it with their three children. after living there for 28 days they were convinced the house was possessed by some kind of evil force and they left their belongings and they fled and they were really terrified the events that supposedly took place there during those 28 days have been put down in a best-selling book it's called the amityville horror and there is now a movie out or about to come out of the book george and kathleen lutz are with us this morning to talk about what happened during those 28 days in amityville and james brolin super young man actor thank you yes much pleasure Good to see you again, Jim.

He plays George Lutz in the movie, and Jim is with us this morning, and it's a great seeing you again. Great seeing you again. Lus's, good morning to you, Bo. All right, first of all, the book in the movie depict all these kind of weird, strange things that happened in the house during those 28 days when you were there. What kind of things George happened physically?

What were some of the things that happened that scared you? Well, at first, just moving into the house was fine. It's a lovely house, and we enjoyed moving in. Within a week, Kathy's hand had been touched by something that we discussed and couldn't explain. It was just something unseen. This is in the daylight or was it? Yes. It was during the day.

Right. Okay. We also had hordes of flies that would appear within two rooms. And no matter how many times we would kill them, they would reappear. All right. Now, flies can be a real problem in this part of the country in the summer in any house. you know but if you have two or three or four within one room that could be commonplace but when you're talking over a hundred oh this was the winter yes and you're talking about how many over a hundred

over a hundred fly one time and then you'd go around and kill them they'd be lying on the floor you'd come back an hour later and they would be there more of them okay there's something about green slime what was that on the wall in the movie this green slime comes out of the walls right George, did that happen? As the movie did it, not exactly, no. It was more of a gelatin kind of substance that we thought the children had somehow mixed something up and spilled it around the house.

The next time it happened, the kids were at school, and there was just no way to explain how it got there. Did you want to call, you know, a contractor or a carpenter or anybody to come and look and try to... We had several repayment coming in, telephone. repairmen came three times because each time we were trying to communicate with the priests we were running to faulty connections we had extreme fluctuations in the heat between 40 and 50 degree fluctuations three times the servicemen came in one time he was there he heard the furnace functioning

and yet there was no heat within the house the temperature was at 40 and yet thermostat read 80 somebody inspect the entire heating system goodness knows those of us who live in north know what I can happen with heating systems in a house especially old houses George something about there was also something about black make it in the toilets but the water black and making the the ceramic the bowls or whatever the China itself it wasn't in the water the China itself turned black and at first it was one bathroom and then another and then another so that by the time the investigators got there a number of them were still black you know it was still

that way there was never any reasonable explanation did you have a plumber come in i mean when you first spot no it wasn't it wasn't a problem with the water the water was cool did it was normal but did you invite any contractor somebody like that just to come say hey what's wrong with the toilets no because one of the things we found was the keyholes would eat or ooze a black substance which was of the same nature and appearance as that, which was on the porcelain and the twelts. And when the investigative team came on March 6, 1976, the substance was still on the key halls,

and they were unable to obtain samples of it because it was never in a moist condition. And they wouldn't do physical damage to the door, in other words, caught out a piece of wood without our consent. Had either of you had any experience before with the occult or the supernatural ever before? We didn't believe in it. Were you afraid for your children? Why didn't you leave earlier than the 28 days if you were terrified?

Well, it was our house. First of all, we had never intended to give it up. Even after we moved out, we intended to find out what was wrong and moved back in there. That's why the investigation was held. And people from different psychic research groups that at least we had. could check their credentials were called in and asked to come in. We've been asked many times why we stayed so long. It's very hard to remember the exact emotions or the moment of why you would make a decision or why not. But you finally did make it. Well, by the time we left, we had lost a considerable

amount of weight. Kathy was passing out quite regularly. I had lost over 26 pounds. And we were just reacting from one happening to another. We weren't. So you were generally. We weren't thinking. Yes. as we normally would. Jim, you played George in the movie, and you did research this and worked on it and so forth. You smiled. Do you believe them? Do I?

Yeah, when I'm sitting here with them, yes, I do. And I've watched George, and I've watched, you know, you've been an actor, David, and you kind of know how to watch for telltale signs when you're doing research and watching to people, and we also, well, you get an insight. And I can't say that looking over the story, I believe the book as it's presented totally. But sitting with his people, it's hard to deny a lot of the facts, too.

George gave up a lot of money. More than I think that he would make on the book. Do you know what I mean? Why would you keep up working on this if it was terrifying and not a pleasant experience? Why don't you just leave it behind you and forget it and move on to other things? Things of this nature happen quite frequently. And when they happen to families, no, not to us. This was something we learned from the investigators and the psychics that came in.

And when it happens to a family, usually they close the door and they don't talk about it. And unless these things are talked about, they'll never be understood. We went out when the movie was being filmed, Jim, we went out to the house and talked to the couple to live in the house or did a year ago And they said they'd had no problems whatsoever Everything was just fine and they implied that this is all a big hope Well one of the things we're very happy with is four weeks ago Both of us were subjects of a polygraph test It was given by Chris Goebus and

Michael Rice And We both passed with four colors. We would tested separately on it. All right. So there is the interview. And that's an important piece to this, right?

Now, this is back in the 70s. This is the Lutz family. This is both of the people that lived in the house, you know, outside of their kids. But they did do a polygraph test. They did pass with flying colors. Now, like I said, this was back in the 70s. So polygraphs are not going to be as advanced or as good as they are today. It's really hard actually nowadays to pass a polygraphs.

to pass a polygraph test if even how they train CIA and all that stuff. It's extremely hard to pass it. Yeah, it's almost like, yeah, if you are telling the truth, you still might fail. Yeah, yeah, you can even fail then. But, you know, even with CIA guys, that's the reason why they find, they try to find people with sociopath tendencies, not being a sociopath necessarily or a narcissist necessarily. They try to find people that go right up to the edge of that, to where they're not over the edge of that because obviously that's going to be a bad thing for a CIA officer, but they want someone

that could pass a polygraph test if under the circumstances that they have to for their life. And the only way you do that in certain cases is to be a narcissist sociopath type person to where you can get in your mind with a certain story or whatever the case is where your, you make your mind makes your body believe. And your mind has to make your body believe what you're saying is true. Because if your body doesn't believe it and your mind's. saying it, your mouth saying it, you're going to fail a polygraph test based on all of the conditions under a polygraph examination. That's how they do this. It's a scientific method.

That's why they ask you questions like, what's your name? Is the sky blue? You know, is your dog brown? Is, you know, is what do you live on this street? You know, they ask all these conditioning questions to where they want to see a baseline. The baseline is very important because they want to see how your body reacts to truth that you know is the truth and then how your body reacts to certain questions based on whatever story you're trying to tell them and that is how they get a baseline and that's also how they know your line but you know it is also interesting because i'm sure there have been people that have failed polygraph tests that have been telling the truth whether it be because of the situation or circumstances are in they're scared about it um and even back in the 70s you know

when kind of doing some research their polygraph examination was not that far off from what it is now they measure breath and heart right and that's a big key indicator and so when you can pass something especially as a couple um you know there's a lot of people that have said that the lutses are grifters now we hear a lot about grifting nowadays especially in the ufo community there are people that think that jeremy corbell is a grifter there are people to think that you know ashton forbes is a grifter meaning you will make up a story based on uh the ability to make money off of your story right uh chris bledso is another one people You know, some people believe Chris Blets is story of the lady and his UFO experiences is a grift.

You know, how do I get myself in mainstream enough to where I can make money off of my whatever, whatever the story is? And so the Lutz, were they an original grifter. Right. And people were saying they were in makes with this book deal and that they were going to be making money off of that. But I want to back up for just a minute. Chad's probably going to kill me for this. But we have had tons of flies in our house. Yeah.

And we have both been hitting them and swatting them at the same time. I am a good house cleaner, but we have had black stuff in the toilet. Well, it's orange first and then it turns black. I think that's our water. It happens in the dog bowl as well. I have to wash the dog bowls with soap and water every three days. It starts to develop a slime. Yeah, or orangey type substance.

Or an orangey slime, not a green slime, but an orangey slime. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm just trying to think about the things they were saying, flies, slime. slime, black mold in a toilet. Maybe it's because the evil spirits know that we're Tennessee and Clemson Valley. And so they want to put orange in there instead of black. I don't know. But actually, when that interview was playing, I took my headphones off and I was telling

Sherry was like, hey, by the way, guys, the black stuff and told it, that's called mold. That's literally what it is. But what is interesting after they did move out, there was a paranormal team that came in, took photographs, set up tests, did things like that. And they actually did capture a photograph of a young boy that was like of some kind of spiritual nature. And this was a team that was not related to the Lutz at all. Yeah.

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Kunti. S-caupot, Suomen-suosite run verlocut. Was there paranormal activity in this house after the murders? And also, you know, where they talk about, and this Good Morning America host back in the 70s says, you know, we had actually went out to the house and we had talked to the new owners of the house

or at least a year ago, and they said they've had no experiences whatsoever. Now, the thing about that is, is that that is all very possible. Is something connected to a person, is if you move into a house, for example, the question we asked earlier,

that would you buy a house that people were murdered in? Right. For Sherry and I, I would say no. I mean, just because of how much we open ourselves up to stuff,

how much we talk about stuff, how much we are kind of open to trying to figure out things. But for someone that is going about their daily life, they go work nine to five, they don't think about the same shit we do, they don't talk about the same stuff we do on podcast. Could they get away with going into a house

that, say, for example, the amnable horror house was haunted by evil spirits, could they get away with it? I think they probably could because the devil often attaches itself in ways that in openings. Two people that are open. Yeah. If you're open to something, that's when he's going to come in. Now, the question is, and we do not, what I want to do with this podcast is determine whether the luts are full of shit or not. Or not.

Well, and this is an interesting point I want to bring up to is the priest, because there is controversy about the priest if he actually came in and performed any kind of spiritual rituals to get rid of these things or not. Yeah. Because the Lutz said they did that he did. And that was the only reason why the author of the book decided to go along with it and write the book is because the priest actually went into the house. But according to the priest, he never went into the house.

He had phone calls with the Lutz family over the phone but never entered the residence. Yeah. And all the movies depict that he went into the residence. All this crazy stuff happened to work. Yeah, he got thrown up on. Yeah, yeah. And he fled the house, you know, and he could not possibly do this. Now, when we're talking about priest, we're talking about exorcisms.

Before we get into determining whether or not the Lutz is or full of shit or not, I mean, because that is kind of the entire reasoning behind this podcast. And we have no doubt that Butch did kill his family and he went to prison for that. Absolutely. So we know there were murders there. That did happen. Yes. But we have a clip of Dr. Dan Schneider.

Now, Dr. Dan Schneider is a guy that has been involved and a part of exorcisms in the past. And I want to play this clip. And then we also have another priest that talks about that one of the occurrences of an exorcism he was on. It was almost like this woman was a slithery snake. It was a snake in the floor. And it was like what she was doing during this exorcism. was not human. It's not possible.

But also, Dan Schneider talks about this a little bit as well in some of what he has been involved in. We're going to roll that clip right now and then we'll talk about it. You said there's nine stages to possession? Well, there's three primary. So you have ordinary and extraordinary diabolic activity. The ordinary activity is temptation, the stuff that we deal with all the time, until probably 30 minutes after. I'm dead, I'm still going to, I'm still going to be tempted by, you know, that cherry pie or whatever, you know.

What kind of temptation? What's that? What kind of temptation. Diabolic temptation. I was joking about the cherry pie. I like cherry pie, but, you know what I mean? So temptation is the ordinary. And, you know, part of being, being in the spiritual life, part of being a Christian is

dealing with temptation, a temptation to anything. Name it. Anger, lust, infidelity, impurity, impurity. theft, whatever, the demon is going to constantly whittle away. That's the ordinary. The analogy that I use is, you remember in Vietnam, they would set, I don't know if you guys still did, but they would set up the wire. They would string claim more minds around, you know.

And so the wire represents kind of the interiority of self. And the temptation, the demon's still outside the wire. And then you've got increasing levels of extraordinary diabolic activity. and it's oppression, obsession, and then possession. And each one of those has marked signs, three marked signs of movement towards full-blown possession. But the ordinary is temptation and the extraordinary is oppression, obsession, possession, and possession.

And it becomes, it begins, oppression level is normally along in temporal goods, relationships, finances, vehicles, and, you know, temporal things. And then as it grows down the spectrum, it becomes more interior. And the demon becomes more present to the person as he takes more ground.

They surrender more ground. It's very much like trench warfare in many ways. As the demon takes more ground, he becomes more interior or more present to them. I want to pause here because we actually actually talked about this with James. James brought this up. Right. On the last episode we had with James, and by the way, go and check out the Bible sessions podcast. Yeah, it actually put me in tears a little bit talking about it because this is a hard situation to talk about when you're thinking about

if you could become possessed or not. Yeah. And it starts with the interior. So it's like you said, there's a line, right? And obviously, as Christians or just as people in general, you are always tempted with temptation. I mean, there's temptation with everything. Everything starts with temptation. It doesn't matter if it is addiction or anger or lust or infidelity, any of these things. He did not mention addiction there, but addiction is a huge one. That is something that takes over your body completely. And one of the things I forgot to mention earlier about when we're talking about alcohol and drugs and whatever, but especially alcohol, you know, there's a reason why alcohol is called spirits

because it gets you in some other kind of spirit that you should probably not be in in most cases. Although it's a depressive. And it is a depressant. But when he talks about oppression, that was something that James talked about on their podcast. And oppression is something to where he wants to bring you down. He wants to put everything down. If you're talking about God, you're talking about Jesus. You're talking about the things that you should be talking about.

There's going to be something come along that oppresses that. And that is oppression. And Sherry and I promise you we have dealt with this. But yeah, oppression can be like for what Sherry and I have battled with is when you want to talk about God or you want to get more spiritual. you want to go on this journey. You really want to figure stuff out. The devil's going to come in and he's going to oppress you and he's going to utilize people close to you the most.

And that was one thing that Sherry and I have been battling for a while, whether it be the Jewish Christian thing, Israel versus not Israel. There's so many things. And so, and I found it also very interesting because like when we wanted to start talking about Jesus on this podcast, when we really wanted to start diving in where we had the book, we ordered the books and we were like, hey, let's do this series. And then that's when everything started to change, especially when the Israel thing started happening.

And then it was a big divide between Israel and Christianity and October 7th. And you name it. Yeah. And I put a divide within us, too. And I just wanted to point out, too, real quick, that Brie was another one that said, this is what's happening. The devil is trying to divide you and work you against each other. Oh, absolutely.

And Brie said that from the very beginning. I mean, she said, you know, look, guys, just so you know, you know, she's like as soon as you start talking about this. And we had actually told Bree on or before we started even talking about God on this podcast, this was probably three years ago. And Bree was like, I just want to let you know, you're about to have some shit come your way. Like, because the devil's, the devil's not going to let you get away with this just by talking about God. Oh, you have a platform now.

Oh, you promise God that when you get a platform, you're going to talk about him and you're going to do the right thing. But God, but the devil is not going to let you do that, especially if you allow the devil not to let you do that. And I think in some ways we have, regardless of what our beliefs or our, are. feelings or on certain issues are, I think it has been oppression. That is oppression. The other thing is obsession. So obsession is the first one. Obsession becomes about money, about your ego. Obsession is like, what car do I have? How big of a house do I have? How much money can I make? How much can I do for myself, right? Like that is all about obsession. Let's be obsessed with myself. Let's be obsessed with the vehicles we having a driveway. Let's be obsessed with the amount of money that we make every single month.

And not because of God's glory, not because of what God did for us by creating us is an obsession based on our own ego. And that is obsession. And number one, starts with obsession. And then after obsession becomes oppression. Either way. Because I just look at myself as far as obsession. And kind of, I am obsessed with these little things that I find out in the wilderness by the river. Like I'm obsessed and I see myself sometimes wanting to go out there. I'm like and sometimes I'm begging Chad. Let's take the golf cart and go see these things. I want to see them.

It's like there's a need to want to see it again. Yeah. And I also have obsession definitely for my dog. Well, yeah, but that's a little different. But the reason why you have obsession, I think, with those things is it is extraordinary. It is diabolical. It is all these things that, you know, it's not necessarily natural and it's not commonly occurring. So, for example, you know, having a Lamborghini in the driveway is not commonly occurring for most people, which is why people become assessed with getting it.

It's also not commonly occurring to most people to see orbs in the middle of a freaking woods next to a river. That's why it becomes an obsession. Anything that can become an obsession is because of the extraordinary particulars of that thing. So it could be a Lamborghini, it could be million dollars, it could be orbs. That is an obsession. That's what creates it, I think. And then obviously the oppression can also come. And listen to your point,

obsession may come first. Oppression, it doesn't matter. Either way, oppression definitely also happens. And then once you get past that, as he's saying, possession.

Yeah, that's what you're really opened up. Yeah, you're 100% on obsession and you're 100% on oppression and you're just letting everything happen to the point where you go full scale, maybe in your orb thing.

You go all the way in on that. You're also completely oppressed by everything that you want to learn on your adventure to God and Jesus or whatever. And so you're completely far away from that because maybe you fight with your husband or argue with your husband about the particulars or the belief system, right? So the devil knows, hey, he's got you. And I'm not saying you, Sherry. I'm saying both of us.

The devil's got you. And so you now are oppressed. You are now obsessed with something extraordinary that is not of God. And now he has a clear pathway to possess. Now, like this guy says, possession. is not common, but it is possible. And you don't have to have possession of people to completely destroy their lives. I mean, and I think in most cases, I think the reason why so many people get in positions

that they are in, whether they're criminals, whether they are drug addicts, whether they're alcoholics, they've lost their family, they've lost everything. I guarantee you that somewhere along the way, likely trauma was a part of that. If you look at like the statistics of homeless people, I think it says like 90% of homeless people, will have some type of mental disorder to where even if you got them off the drugs is still going to be very hard to keep them off of that unless you can completely fund them, put them in a, you know, put them in a facility to where you're monitoring them 24-7. I don't know the statistics if that's true or not, but what I am saying is that likely they

suffer from oppression, obsession being drugs, oppression being their trauma and everything that allows the devil in. And then the possession thing is like kind of the worst case, but you don't have to be homeless or a drug addict or any of that to be possessed. There have been normal people be possessed and for whatever reason. And I think in some cases, you know, when you have platforms or you are a good person or you talk to a lot of people or whatever, I think you might be more susceptible to be possessed because that is going to be the devil's way of getting and gaining his following. Right. And so that's why I've always said like with this podcast, when we talk about God,

we talk about Jesus. We got to be, we got to be right about how and what we talk about because we don't want to lead people astray and say, you know what? I don't even believe in any of this. And then that's the devil's way of like creeping in and saying, I got him.

Now he's not wanting to talk about God anymore. He's not want to talk about Jesus. Not want to talk about anything else. I've got him. And so now I can lead more people astray by using one person or two people than I ever could by just possessing them entirely. But based on his three categories, oppression, obsession, and possession, there's a lot of other others that go along with it or are involved with things like that that people experience. And I don't think it's just about people that are alcoholics or had trauma or drunks or whatever.

I think it could happen to everyday normal people. Absolutely. Yeah. Just like, you know, in my opinion, I don't know where this falls. but in our last podcast, I was talking about sleep being paralyzed in my sleep and having something feeling like it's holding me down. I couldn't breathe. I couldn't yell. I couldn't scream.

I couldn't move my arms. I was just paralyzed. And Kathy Lutz had the same exact experience when she was living in this house for 28 days. Now, I don't know what level that is or what that means, but there are other things that go along with it. And it doesn't, I guess what I'm saying, it doesn't matter. if you are addicted to drugs or an alcoholic or anything like that. It can happen to anyone is what I guess my point is. And maybe that whole experience,

like when you're held down, you're paralyzed. Maybe that is the, in some ways, a physical manifestation slash spiritual of the oppression, right? So it's like feeling oppressed, like actually filling it on your body,

right? And it's maybe your soul, God saying, hey, this is what you, this is maybe. God's telling me anything. I know,

but, I know. I know. But maybe people will understand what I'm saying. Let's listen to some more of what he says. You know, just like, you know, the church lady, you know, you having a conversion experience. And suddenly you're helping out the church. You're telling everybody about it.

Like, man, God did all these great things for me. And you're broadcasting and telling everybody. And the opposite, you're doing the opposite. You know, you're putting up, you know, if you're Catholic anyway, you're putting up, you know, pictures of the-Larlet of Guadalupe and a crucif. over here and and you know you've got st benedict over here whatever there they're starting to take down any religious objects they're putting up more secular stuff they're starting to broadcast they're they're doubting god you know so you start to see this inversion and then spiritual obsession the demon starts moving in he's starting setting up he's starting to control things a lot

more um increasingly and and possession again as i mentioned earlier it's it's a that's very rare but, you know, it's done when, if he doesn't have to, he's not going to, for the most part. And so, so, yeah, so obsession is more common than a possession. And the danger of not ferreting out the psychological people got to understand is that a psychological obsession, psychological obsession, can open you to a spiritual oppression or even spiritual obsession. just to a psychological obsession because the demon feeds off that. He takes advantage of that psychological obsession, whether there's addiction of pornography

or I'm not saying if you're addicted to pornography, you're possessed. But any psychological obsession can open, expose, you're just vulnerable. You've got a whole flank that's wide open and nobody's covering it. How do they get in? You know, a couple of things.

One is wounds, trauma. Another is, you know, the demon. The physical trauma? Psychological trauma. Psychological trauma. psychological trauma. Yeah, psychological trauma. They can, they feed off those wounds, their vulnerabilities.

And, and of course, the demon enters through sin. And as I put it in the book, the demon enters through sin, but he holds in heresies, believe it or not. Even in false beliefs, he can hold on those heresies. We always see that. So, but it's usually some psychological trauma and or sin, especially grave sin, especially the really, the really, wicked sins in our experience we've seen that as diabolic accompaniment. What is that? There's a demon person.

What's an extreme sin? Incest. Sexual trauma, sexual abuse, rape, that sort of thing. What is the, I mean, what is the demon's goal? Take you to hell. But there's lots of sinners. Why do they pick these specific people? I mean, what are some of the people that we were talking about?

Um, Abramovich. I mean, is she possessed or? Well, I mean, I think if you're working specifically in that field, you're probably uncontestedly possessed. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But, um, they're, they're working on all of us. You know, father, you know, father, you know, father, father, father, father. I think I mentioned earlier, the demon told him, if you can, if you could see our numbers, we would darken the sun. You know, my name is Legion from where many. So, so they're, there's constantly whittling away, whittling away, working at it, the perception. That's why I think you ought to watch nefarious,

because you start to see diabolic psychology the way he's, the way he whittles away, what he's looking for, the vulnerabilities he's looking at. But he has no rights. That's what he's going to say, I have a right to you. No, you don't. If you're baptized by right, your soul belongs to Jesus Christ. That's it.

But he takes permissions, you know, if you give him permissions to be. He'll take that and that will be his entry point. That makes sense? Kind of. Yeah. By giving him permissions, you mean by your actions? And so I want to point out this too because, you know, when we're talking about Ronald Jr., right, Butch, where he was troubled, obviously very troubled.

And he had a lot of psychological abuse. Now, we know it was physical in nature. we don't necessarily know if it was rape or you know maybe he was sexually abused or any of that stuff we don't know for sure but what if it was right and so even to that point beyond the movie to where this guy something led him to murder his entire family whether how you look at this from the movie perspective that it was an actual demon that was moving through the house these cold spots the flies the slime the all of these things the the things that turned even the Lutz family, allegedly, the father into somebody he was definitely not, you know, before he moved into the house. But what led Ronald Jr.

To, to do these heinous acts. You know, what leads people to do heinous acts like this as we were talking about? And, you know, to where a demon can get into you is through physical trauma. You know,

and that was one of the things that, um, that, you know, you know, Sean Ryan asked here. He said physical or of course, of course it's not physical trauma. I mean, it's not like you get a cut and the demon comes in. Right.

It means like you have something far worse than a cut, which is physical. Yeah. Psychological like demons in you. Yeah. And psychological trauma is in a lot of cases worse. Worse or as bad as physical trauma. Now we obviously know people, Ross out there, that has had extensive physical trauma to where he has had to live his life like that with one.

leg and he has been, you know, traumatized by an accident over the years. But that's horrific as well. Yeah, absolutely. It does. But, you know, so can psychological trauma. It can change your life in so many different ways. You know, and also physical trauma can lead to psychological trauma that then lead you into a position to where you're susceptible to things like this.

And so, you know, do we say that like people that have psychological trauma just do this because they're just bad people or how much of that do we think is a demonic spirit that is able to inhabit their psyche in their soul? And plus we're going to think about people with a psychological trauma. Most of us in our lives and one point in another have had some kind of psychological trauma. We've all gone through it. It's just different levels. Yeah, for sure.

And what level or what sets a person off? maybe a level one for me would have set off a level four for somebody else. You know what I'm saying? How much can you handle until you just go cuckoo? Go crazy. Yeah. I mean, listen, I mean, in my life, obviously, you know, there's been things I've struggled with psychologically for sure.

And I know you're in your life as well, Sherry. And, you know, and there's a lot of people like that. I mean, you think about, you know, like you said, there's levels of trauma and there's reasons why in your mind that thing just drives you crazy. There's psychological trauma as far as if you're a, firefighter, paramedic or police officer to where the things that you see or have saw affects you mentally. There's that.

There's also psychological trauma to where maybe you weren't loved by your father or your mother or maybe you were abused or maybe these things that as a young age, especially as your brain is developing, you know, at, you know, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 17 years old to where it's a constant thing that you kind of grow up in. And then you're kind of out there in real life in the real life. real world. And now your brain is trying to deal with everything that you have already dealt with before and then also be normal and kind of go along with everything.

And live a normal kid life. And then kids are really mean. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, especially today. I mean, a lot of talk actually lately has been about kids and our youth of today are the most troubled maybe than we've ever had them. A predominant reason why we have violent crime now is starting to go up because of teenagers.

Yeah. Just hijacking cars is predominantly by. kids. Yeah. Shootings, gangs, all this stuff. It is,

it is our youth. And, you know, we, we have this kind of consensus, which Judge Janine just went on Fox News, which I don't agree with everything.

Judge Janine has been saying lately, but one of the things she did get right on Fox News the other day was talking about, you know, kids now, and I think kids have always kind of sort of known this. It's like, if you're a minor, you can get away with a lot of shit.

Because once you're not a minor, all that minor stuff's usually off your record. And most of the time, you know, especially growing up in our era, you know, you're slapped on a risk. If you did something bad, you know, it's, you know, fine, you're slapping a risk. But the reality is parenting used to be a lot better too. I mean, in some ways. I mean, it is even though, yes, we all had trauma back in a day. We had abusive parents in some cases. We had alcoholics. We had, I'm sure there were people

that had drug addicts and all that. But nowadays, we just have parents that are bad shit crazy. I mean, there is a large portion of people that are ideologically crazy. that are raising their kids to be crazy. And these kids have nothing more to go on than how crazy their parents are. I literally just saw a video of like eight kids. These are from the ages of eight and probably 13. They were in Walgreens with trash bags still in shit and taking it out of the door. And it's like, and everybody's like, why would be looking at the people like,

bitch, what's you going to do about it? Yeah, exactly. But the problem is like, everybody's like, I can't believe. these kids will be doing us. Oh, well, I wonder if we had a security camera on their parents over the past two or three years. I wonder if they were the same people going into Walgreens still and shit because you learn from your parents. And some kids are going to learn and they're going to do the exact same shit their parents do, especially if they have no other outlet to be able to learn differently. And there are certain factors and sections of people that don't have another outlet.

But then there are some people that do break through. They do make it. But, you know, that's exceedingly rare nowadays to have someone that has went through hell and back as a child and actually make it that is exceedingly rare it didn't used to be as rare but now it's like with media social media everything it is really hard if you are looking all the crazy shit on social media you already have a shitty childhood your parents are batshit crazy they're still on shit from Walgreens and you know firebombing buildings in towns or whatever and now it's like what chances do you have? What chances do you have to become a normal citizen? And your chances of becoming a criminal sooner are much higher than ever before, I think. So anyways, we went on a rant.

Let's listen. Acting on temptation. Yeah. Sinful behavior. Yeah. What are some of the things that you've seen during exorcisms? You saw levitation, correct? Yeah, one of the first cases we had was well yeah levitation all but tips of the toes and the thing tip of the I mean physically impossible you know to elevate as if there is a rope pulling everything off the ground except for tips of the fingers and tips of the toes you've seen that yeah how did that feel um you know you're just so focused on mission you're not thinking about it you're just praying you're doing your job You know? But, yeah, I've seen a priest starts praying,

and the lady sitting in a folding chair in the room about this size. One bound slides all the way from this wall to that wall. Wow. Yeah. And it was just like, you know, it's like you. You got, you're cool. You know what I mean? You're a seal.

I was a helicopter pilot. You know, you flew with a lot of guys. And no matter what happens, they're always cool. So on the outside, I'm always like, you know, just doing none of shakles. on the inside, I was like, dude, you got to do that again. That was, wow. Yeah.

But, I mean, I joke. I joke. But yeah, it's some of the stuff, it's just, it's just, wow. What are they saying when you're performing the exorcism? Yeah, sometimes. The, that's the first. Yeah. When we talk about what the demon saying or manifestation,

what happens is a demon appropriates the senses of the person. And so they take, again, the demon properly speaking, possesses the body and they appropriate their senses, sight hearing. You know, they traffic into senses. Some are sensitive to different things, you know. I can't tell you any time you can't hear, but I've got Gagorean chant going right now. I can't tell you many times I would do an intake and they'd say, can you turn that music off? I'm like, what music?

You know, it's coming out of your pants or your jacket. I'm like, I'll crank it up. You mean this? And I'll crank it up real out. No, I'm not going to turn that off. And it, see, well, it's aggravating something inside of me. Like, well, okay. I'm not turning it off.

You know, I've seen it one time on, for example, music, Gagorian chant, which is the chant of monks, okay? Catholic monks, Benedictine monks, praying ancient prayers. You know, Gagorean chant goes back to the 500s, you know, Gregory the great, is when it kind of started. So maybe 600. And so the priest says, okay, let's basically get the party started, you know. So I had I have the todayum, which is an ancient Gagorean chant. Te de'am la alamos, we praise you God. And it's the chant of the choirs of angels chanting before the throne of God. Okay. And so I just hold it up. And as soon as, The demon was kind of stoic, and as soon as you hear as the Gregorian chant,

immediately starts manifesting, and then the priest jumps in and does the ectrism. And then the next week I thought, I'm going to be smart because I'm a smart guy, you know. So I played something else. The D.S.E. Ray, they prayed on Good Friday, the Day of Wrath. So I want to play that one as being a smart guy. All right. So as he was talking about Dr. Dan Schneider, there is different levels of possession. and this happens.

There are various ways that this happens. It is very strange how this happens. But we have another exorcist priest that has witnessed a lot of weird things where he says she was slithering across the floor like a snake. I think he explains this exorcism stuff a little bit better and kind of their process of how they go about the exorcism. Because this is very real stuff, guys. whether you believe people can be possessed or not, I think that I actually saw a comment on the clip and it says, the people that need exorcists the most are the people in power today. And I agree with that because, you know, you think about the world today.

You think about the leaders of today. It seems like that they are absolutely doing 100% everything opposite of what the people want and everything opposite of what you would think God would want for people, you know. And that's that's the truth. And there are leaders of countries right now. And this is not just Israel I'm talking about, but this is leaders of countries. So even Putin, for example, where Putin says, you know, hey, we believe in God. We are a evangelical type, you know, country.

And we love God and we love our values and all this stuff. But then, you know, you think about how many lives are being lost every single day. Right now, I think in the Russia, Ukraine ward, there's 5,000 plus. You got Israel that has possibly killed 100,000 civilians. We don't know for sure, but now they're about to completely take over Gaza. We do also have the other side, which is Hamas, that came in October 7th and killed 1,200 plus innocent Israelis. You know, this happens all the time.

The United States has been involved in campaigns to where we have killed innocent people. This is not just necessarily all on Israel. It's not necessarily just all on Ukraine or Russia or the United States. for some reason when people get in power, they feel like it's okay to just kill innocent people. These are just expendable people that we can just continue to kill. And as long as we're doing it for our team, or at least we let everybody think that we're doing it for our team, that's okay. The problem is I think there are so many leaders in this world right now that are possessed. They are possessed by the obsession of power.

and the obsession of power in some ways, I think in especially some of these world leaders cases, leads to almost some type of possession. And I don't think that the world leaders are doing stuff for the righteousness of God. You know, I just don't think that's the case. I think most cases, the wars are happening because of greed and money. It's happening because of contracts with military industrial companies, whether it be Lockheed or Raytheon or whoever. is it's the military industrial complex that leads a lot of these wars. It is the exact reason why there are people that are starving around the world, not just in

Gaza, but also, you know, in probably Ukraine, in various countries throughout Africa, South America, you name it. There are tons of people. Think about this. We're given billions, 300, 400, 500, who knows we've lost track of the amount of money we have given to Ukraine now to fight Russia through a proxy war. But think about if we would give four or $500 billion to African countries, right, to where we protect the people of Africa, because there are Christians, by the way, being slaughtered in Africa

by whatever Muslim factions that I guess come in. That's what I was getting ready to say that it's not just about greed, power, and money. I think a lot of these wars are rituals and religious wars. Yeah, ideological. Absolutely. And that is 100% also true, right? I mean, you can have wars that are based on money, military, industrial complex, power, greed. And oftentimes, unfortunately, I think that is the predominant amount of wars.

But yes, absolutely true. There is 100% ideological religious wars that have happened and have happened throughout thousands of years. This is not something new. You know, when you have entire villages of Christians in Northern Africa that are slaughtered because they are Christians, because they believe in Jesus. that is a problem. That is a religious ideological war. That is an extremist. The same thing that happened in Israel.

They were slaughtered because they were Jews. Yes. And then if you want to go into that, which we won't, but yes. But you've brought up Gaza several times. So I have to make sure that I point that out because they were slaughtered. And that's what began on October 7th.

Yeah. So 1,200 versus 100,000 civilians. I get that. But I'm just saying it was based to me on religion or. I think the whole thing in Gaza and Israel. Against religion. Yes. I don't know.

Yeah, probably so. But I think the whole dynamic between Israel and Gaza is religious. I mean, on both sides. And it's not just Hamas, just hates Jews. It's also Israel hates Gaza. And that's just that's kind of my opinion. And it's based on religion. It's based on all these things.

Probably also power, probably also military industrial complex influence. Also probably BB Netanyahu didn't want to go out of power. You know, Hamas is, Hamas is obviously awful. They have their agenda. They have what they want to do, but now also Israel does as well. But as I said, it's not just about Israel. It's not just about Gaza. It's also about all the world leaders. And I think many of them, if they took a lesson from Jesus or God, in my opinion, like the God that I follow, I don't think that would just be okay with killing innocent civilians. That's the same thing as saying, well, why is it bad if the Fayo here goes and kills his whole family for some ideological reason because probably in his

mind there was some ideological about it. There's probably a lot of people that do ideological things. For example, shooters that go and shoot up a bunch of people. There's something in their mind that is ideological, whether it's religious, whether it is based on whatever. Politics, yes, absolutely. Those are ideological killings. And so when you do the same thing as a country, that's supposedly okay because it's the government. Right.

But when you do as a person, you are sentenced to death. So why are we not sentencing countries to death for killing innocent civilians, but we do people, civilians? That's the thing. It's like, as long as your government, you're okay with murder and you're good with murder and you can get away with it. But if you're a civilian, that's not the case. All right, let's listen to this priest that talked about, and he goes a little bit more in detail about exorcism, because I think it's very interesting. When you think about, like, are there actual demons that can possess you? This is something that's very important to listen to.

I mean, how did you get into exorcisms? Well, that's interesting, too. You know, after 9-11, I moved up to Boston and I went up staying with a priest for about nine months. And he did deliverance ministry. In fact, the very first weekend I arrived, and I didn't know him that well. But I'm out of luck. I have no job now. And now I have no place to live because I was, you know,

I was so close. They closed everything under Canal Street. So there was no power. There was no gas. There was no electricity. And so basically everyone was told, go find a place to live for at least six months because this isn't going to be up and running anytime soon.

So this priest invited me up to Boston. I said, I'll go. I go up there. And he was amazing. But he had this ministry. So my first weekend there, he has this woman in his chapel in the rectory, who's slithering across the floor,

like a snake and foaming at the mouth and her eyes are rolled back in her head. And he's doing all these prayers. And then he looks at his watch and he says, okay, I'm going to go celebrate Mass. I'll be back in an hour. Just stay with her. And I'm like, what? This is my first introduction to this life. He leaves.

She looks up at me and she's got this weird look in her eyes and she's got the foam coming out of her mouth and I'm like, oh, hell no. And I get out of there and I lock her inside and I sat outside and waited for him to come back. when he comes back and he's like, what are you doing? What do you, what happened to the lady? I go, no, she's in there. But I'm not staying in there with her. I mean, are you crazy?

You left me alone with her. And he's like, oh, okay, I sometimes forget, for the people who haven't been around this, it's a little jarring. I'm like a little jarring. Look at her. She looks like a snake. So that was my introduction initially.

And then for nine months, he would do this with people, and I got more comfortable on being in the room with him. Like how many times in nine months? Probably one or two a month. One or two a month? Yep.

Yeah. And then I went into religious life, and my superior was an exorcist, the exist of Omaha. So now I'm in the room, because they usually took the guys who were a little bit bigger to restrain the victim.

And I got five years of that. And then when I got to Nashville, the bishop knew I was doing that for the religious community. And he says, you know, I want you to do that here for my diocese. Can you do the deliverance? But he says, I'm not going to make your nexus because I feel like that's too big a burden on one priest. I said, okay.

And then he died. God rest his soul, Bishop Chobie. And then the new bishop comes in. And I don't have his authority because he hasn't given it to me. So as the priest are calling me for help, I keep referring them to him. I said, I got to have, he has to give me the authority. I don't do this without being under his protection. And so he finally connects and he says,

you know, why do these priests keep asking for you? I said, I was doing the deliverance for the diocese, but when Bishop Shelby died, I no longer had the authority. So it's up to you. I said, are you the exorcist? I said, no. He didn't want any particular priest to be an exorcist. He thought it was too big a burden.

And he says, I don't know, I'm kind of, I kind of feel like you're fighting with your hands tied behind your back. Like, I think you should become the exorcist. So he sends me to Rome and I get trained and then I come back and begin as the exorcist. What does that training consist of? It's intense. It's like, how does it start? I mean, is there an introduction?

Welcome to exorcism school? Yeah, it was for like two weeks, six days a week, seven in the morning to seven at night. What is the introduction? Here's George Soros. We're going to leave you in a room with him. guys good luck we'll see if you come out now imagine like you're going to exorcism school like how do you even explain that to your friends like what are you in school for exorcisms it's crazy i know but yeah i mean is is this not crazy he goes to rome to do this now obviously he's

catholic priest you know um catholic is is an interesting religion i mean they are christian they believe in Jesus. They go through to Mother Mary, I believe. I think if I'm not, I mean, I'm not a biblical or not biblical, but a religion expert. But I think they do go through to Mother Mary and Jesus and God. And it's like the four trinities, I guess, right? And but Catholics are, have always been very involved. Their main thing has always been, you know, the exorcism deal.

Right. So you got to go through the father to, you know, admit your sins and all that stuff. Obviously, they also have the other, you know, thing that they have. Stuff that goes on a lot there. Stuff that goes on as well, which is very weird. Yeah. We won't even go into. I'm not saying that's, you know, I guess subjective for every Catholic, obviously.

But when you think about possessions, you think about Catholic priests because those are the ones that are trained to get those possessions out of you. Yeah. I don't know if there's any other type of a religious faction that is trained to do this. No, I don't know. I mean, probably. I mean, I don't necessarily know that you have to. Like I would not call my Baptist church up and say, listen, I'm possessed. Can you come get this thing out of me?

No, he's not that you're crazy. He's going to call the cops and you're going to go in a mental ward in a local hospital is what's going to happen. But Catholics really truly believe that possession exists. And if you go back through the Bible and you talk about this, you know, or research this and study this, the Bible talks about this. the Bible talks about this, right? I mean, it talks about possession. And as I already said earlier, you know, many people believe that Jesus also was in some way an exorcist and getting demons out of people that were possessed back in a day thousands of years ago. Well, it kind of reminds me, and I'm not saying anything, I'm not saying about Jesus, but I'm saying about like, and I'm not even saying anything about priests either.

But I used to watch when I was younger. And I don't know if they still show these people on TV. but these preachers, whatever they were, like they were out there, they would be preaching, yelling and screaming, and they would touch the top of the people's head. Benny Hen is one of them. On their, they went with their palm and then the people would just pass out to the floor. And then maybe somebody couldn't walk. They would start walking again. Or, you know, if they had an ailment, they were healed.

Yeah, isn't it funny because there was a meme. This is a funny meme. But isn't it funny? Like, you know, you're talking about like Benny Hen and somebody. of these people where they would put their palm on the forehead. Yes. They would, they would be, you know, possessed or they would have demons in them or whatever.

And they would palm them right on the freaking forehead. And it was pretty hard too. Yeah. Give them a concussion. They would fall back off the stairs into the congregation. And then the next week, the next week, they would come back in a wheelchair. And they're like, how did this dude get in a wheelchair? But if you watched previous week.

Well, he kind of just broke his leg the last time he was in church. Yeah. If you watched her previous week is because. as Benny Hinn pushed him off the damn stage and he broke both his legs. That's why he's now in a wheelchair. And he's like, no, you're going to walk right now, bro. Yeah, I'm going to heal you. Kill you.

And then he pushes the whole wheelchair off. And then the next week, he's like, hey, you remember the guy in the wheelchair last week? He's healed. He ain't here this week. We should not be mocking religions. No, we should. But it is kind of funny. Well, it reminds me of the interview we watched today.

I don't know. Are we going to play it? Oh, yeah. We're going to play it. Oh, my gosh. You guys are going to die. No, this is, you're talking about Kenneth Copeland. Yes.

Oh, my gosh. That was crazy. Kenneth Copeland. But listen, there is obviously these TV evangelists. That's what you call these people, the Bennies, the Kenneth Copeland. Oh, yeah. What was the one that he went to jail and his wife? She had all the blue makeup.

Do you know who I'm talking about? Oh, yeah. You're talking about, oh, God. Yeah, I can't think of the name now. I can't think of their name either. I'm sure you guys know. But yeah, she had all. all the blue makeup of her, I think her husband went to jail.

Yes. For taxes. I think it's taxes or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's right on the tip of my tongue. I can't think of it.

And I think her name was like Patsy or somebody or I don't know. I don't know. But yeah. I mean, you know, when we play the interview in a little bit, like they seem to have issues with taxes unless you're a church and they don't have a lot of issues of taxes. I don't know how they got him necessarily. Because, you know, if you were. Baker?

Yeah. Baker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're exactly right. Was it Jim Baker? and whatever her name was.

Yeah. But the thing is, is like now they have allowed churches to basically be tax exempt. And we'll talk about that in the clip we're going to play later because we're just here hanging out tonight. It is about 8.13 p.m.

We're an hour and 33 in, even though we got a couple edits because we've, well, actually, when we were talking about Satan earlier, I spilled my whole drink on my phone and then it was speeding up everything. So if you guys, if you guys heard some speed up

or if I don't get that edit, just know. it was Satan and it was not me. All right, let's listen to more, because this gets more interesting and then we'll play the interview we're talking about. What do they say? Well, this is kind of going to be the syllabus and protocol for what we're going to go into. There's probably about six or seven different fields, you know, biblical practicums, the devil

and Hollywood, the devil in media, the devil, you know, Harry Potter had its own claims. ass. Harry Potter? Oh, yeah. So you get finished up. They pair you with a mentor who's been doing this a while. And my mentor was in Indianapolis. And so I met with him on a kind of regular basis.

And he took me through some of his cases. And I watched him do actual exorcisms. And then, you know, eventually get your first case that you do it. And I'll never forget it. It was in Murphy's Borough. Hold on. on before we get there how long is the school it's like two weeks two weeks it's they put it like two months into two weeks is it is it is a bookwork is it practical

it's everything yeah we actually have case studies of actual exorcisms that have been performed what happened what you should do what you shouldn't do that class was the best class don't do what would do so if the if the if If the victim vomits up anything, including it could be vomit, it could be small frogs, it could be nails. Do not touch them. Okay. Listen, no shit.

Like if someone is vomiting frogs and nails, I am not touching him. I don't care. What if you kiss it? Are you going to have a prince? No. No, you're going to have Satan. And I think that's the whole point. It's like, how do you, like, how is that part of a class?

Hey, by the way, guys, here's. Here's vomiting 103. If they vomit nails or frogs, you probably should not touch them. You should probably go through the OSHA class first. Yeah. Yeah, you got to have your PPE in this particular incident. Anyways. They're cursed objects until you liberate the objects from the demons and the curses.

And then you can clean them up. I'm like, I'm not touching anybody's vomit, period. I don't care if you're a demon possessed or not. Like, that's not my thing. you know, I'd be like, can someone come in and help me clean this? But then knowing that this could actually, you know, you touch it and then suddenly you're covered in boils. Like, it's a whole level of care and attention to dealing with possessed objects. Do they talk about how it happens?

How does one get possessed? Oh, yeah, of course. 100%. And the two biggest ways are dabbling in the occult. And what does that mean? playing with demonic things, Ouija boards, going to a psychic,

tarot cards, or actual occult worship of the devil. Those are pretty much immediate open doors that you're going to have demons come right in. Psychics are demonic. Yeah, they're not channeling your dead relatives. So right now, we have at least three guardian angels in the room.

There's also probably demons in this room, and they're listening. and they hear every bit of what we're saying. Excuse me. And when somebody says, well, the psychic told me my mother shared this with me when I was 10, and nobody ever knew that but us.

So it has to be my mom, except for the demons in the room who also heard it. And now they're impersonating your mother. If your mother's in heaven, she's having a good day, she doesn't want to come back and visit you. As much as mothers love their children. If she's in purgatory,

she needs our prayers to get her moved into heaven. And if she's in hell, there's no getting out. It's not your mother. Wow. They can put up a good show. And it's very, you know, they can also place thoughts in our minds and they can manipulate our emotions. And when you have that trifecta, the person is 100% believes it's their mother.

Interesting. And so how would, so, how would. So if you're a psychic and I'm getting a reading from you, how does the transmission happen? Well, they're in touch with a demon that's, they may even think it really is a relative, but I think most of them know that there's a power they're tapping into that is dark

and they're not going to show that with you. In fact, some of them will put Christian statues in the room, you know, Sacred Heart is over here, or Lady of Fatim is over here, just to, like, lower the anxiety level of the person coming in. Because a lot of people have heard, it's really not a good thing. But they get desperate. You know, when people are desperate or in fear, they do things they wouldn't normally do.

So, like, after the Civil War, these charlatans came up with these talking boards that they were going around and visiting all the widows saying, I can contact your dead husband, the soldier who died. if you can pay me this amount, we can do it with this talking board. And they made a lot of money off of these poor widows. And then that eventually became what was being known as the Ouija board, which was bought by Hasbro, toy company. And they're based in Salem, Massachusetts, the capital of witchcraft.

And they have consultants who went into the development of these boards. that became Ouija boards. And they are the first to say that they asked the board what its name is. And it said Ouija, which means nothing. And the first year they went to market, the number one board game was Monopoly. And that year, Ouija boards outsold Monopoly by a million boards. So it was embraced by the culture, like fast. There you go.

And there's where Ouichi board came from. And Hasbro. And from Salem. Of all places. Well, and that's the thing. I mean, Ouichi board came from the. the Civil War era and then Hasbro bought this board and then they marketed it to kids. Yeah.

And that's a wrong thing to do because I did market it to kids because I was one of those kids that I owned a Ouichi board. Yeah. And that's probably why you're still possessed. Yeah. But I, you know, I was thinking earlier in this podcast and I am not possessed by the way. If anyone's possessed is you. But I was thinking back to my past as a child.

Like when did this stuff start happening to me? Was it before or after? the Ouija board. But I know for a fact. It was before. I know for a fact. It was before. But that's probably what led you to get a Ouija board to open yourself further.

No, no, no. We all just thought it was a fun game. But that thing is real. That thing moves unless somebody else was moving the thing. I never moved it. Yeah. But also you have to understand. That's why I've told people on this podcast so many times.

And I know we're making funnies and light of some of this stuff. But no, that's just serious. Absolutely. I'm talking about young. We were playing it. And, I always thought somebody else was moving it. But it's the same thing in my mind.

It's like, you know, how do you shape the future? You have to, you have to intervene and intercept the kids. Because the number one line that's always been the most true is the kids are our future, right? And I remember my mom was telling me the other day when I was growing up, Ross Perrault was running for president. And one of the things I guess I used to, I used to go around and act like Ross Perot. Right. Ross Perrault was this little short, skinny dude. bald-headed guy.

I think he had a little bit hair. He had a little hair, yeah. Yeah. But he was a rich guy. Yeah. And he would always come around and be like, let's do it for our children, you know. And, you know, and that was a weird accent. But was he from Texas?

No, he was from the South. But he's like, let's do it for our kids or our children, whatever. But the thing is, like, I think there are a faction of people to also believe we should do it for our children, meaning like, let's possess our kids as early as possible. And so whereas Hasbro, a toy company bought the Ouija board to then put on your kids to open themselves up to demonic possession potentially, we still have this opening up of the devil and occult side in today's world. It's just much easier. You don't need a Ouija more. You need music videos. You need, you need cartoons. Hollywood. Hollywood. You need all these

things. Your kids are watching on a daily basis, whether it's YouTube or their cartoons or whatever. All of that stuff in a lot of ways is opening up your kids to a potential connection to the their side. Yeah. Disney's a big one. Well, don't say that allegedly. Oh, allegedly. Maybe. Probably not.

Disney, you're not at all. Okay. Yeah, you're right. You're the best. That's why my friends go and visit every year. Yeah. And their kids are like 25 years old. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, they're possessed. I mean, that's the point. I mean, there's no other reason why you would go to Disney at 25 other than being possessed by something. It's the same way that you go to the river and look for orbs. They are going to Disney to look for Satan. sorry they're going to see cinderella and mc mouse no that's not true um so i do have another clip and

we have a couple of things we're going to talk about a couple things but um we have the defaio interview which i'm trying to decide if we should get to we probably are going to get to that but i also have the kenneth copeland interview and but before i even get to that i want to play this quickly kenneth copeland was on stage he's done this quite a few times now we've heard of people talking in tongues, right? I've told this story before when I went to a, a church, a particular church. And this church was, I mean, they were running, okay, so they were like, hey, bow your

heads to pray. I thought everything was normal, bowed my head to pray. And then I started hearing, like, I thought there was a school shooter or a church shooter in the building, even though not then. But you know what tongues, what they say they use that for? What? They say it's a language that Satan doesn't know. And so even though you don't know what you're saying, you're talking to God through a language that the devil doesn't know.

Okay. That's why they use tongues. I get that. And so I bowed my head to pray. And then I started hearing the aisles of the church vibrating with people running up and down. They were falling on the aisles. They were rolling like, I mean, they were possessed almost. I mean, if you think about how some of these exorcists priests talk about possession, it's what it looked like.

They were rolling around. They were jumping off the stage. I mean, I'm surprised. I mean, I literally, I think I saw like an 85 year old woman jump four, like four steps. And I was like, I was wondering if she was going to break her ankle. No, she didn't. You shouldn't have been peeking. No, I was definitely watching.

I was like, what in the hell was going on here? And I had to pray to my God because I don't know what this God was, but I had to pray to my God to protect me in this church. And by the way, I guarantee you the person I was with in that church is listening right now. Oh, my gosh. And I'm not even going to see who it was because there. Yeah, I've been to churches like that too. Their dad was the pastor of this church. And I have friends that go to churches today, like now, that still go to those kind of churches.

So we should not be mocking those churches. Okay. Sorry. Sorry, guys that are, um, that go to those churches. But I mean, I have a personal friend that went to classes and learned how to speak in tongues. Yeah. And that's how I know about why they do that. Okay.

So this clip is Kenneth Copeland on stage at his mega church, right? Kenneth Copeland, sorry, for those that do not know who he is, he is the richest evangelist slash pastor in the United States of America. He's worth a damn near $1 billion. And so he was on stage at one of his many sermons, and this happens all the time, apparently, but he was on stage. He was talking about stuff, and this is before we get into the interview. And I think maybe this clip might lead you into understanding why the interview, like what

we're about to talk about happen but the actual i guess title of this video says kenneth copeland possessed on stage i want you to tell me what your thoughts are listen and uh give you a chance to raise your income praise god you missed the place to shout right there that you need to get used to this now glory to god of course all of our offerings will go toward the outreaches of Kenneth Copeland Ministries and especially Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Canada, and it is, and the territories under which the Canadian office is, you know, we're going to be, Pause. Okay.

I want to explain this clip for a second because this guy is just talking about Canada and, you know, his tax evasion probably is what may be happening with Canada. But look, he is in a normal sentence conversation. And so listen. We'll go toward the outreaches of Kenneth Copeland Ministries and especially Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Canada. and it is and the territories under which the Canadian office is okay so he pauses here

and it's like something is well possessing him or something more like Joe Biden and forgot what he was going to say he's like I got to cover up but I got speaking tongues I don't know I don't know but he he stops here and he has this look in his eyes because he does has a weird look yeah the camera kind of pins in and it's like, what the hell is he about to say?

And he almost looks like, like how you might find someone on the street that's about to mug you or shoot you and kill you. It's kind of what his eyes look like, but listen. SIGA-M-A-M-A-M-Lambe-Hat-K-Gan-W-E-Lan-A-M-M-Ram-A-M-M-A-Lan-A-Lan-A. dealing inkren in stilets, God attack. The movement of the spirit of God

that has been prayed over. All right. So there you go. And there may not be anything to that. I mean, not at all. He might not at all be possessed.

He might be a normal guy. I think he was speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues. And then you hear the Kenneth Copeland interview with Inside Edition, where they kind of bombard him on the tarmac where he's about to get into his Tyler Perry, you know, multi-million dollar jet. He got a great deal on keep in mind. But let's listen to this.

How are you, sir? We'd just like to ask you about why you don't want to fly commercial. Why have you said that you won't fly commercial? You said that it's like getting into a tube with a bunch of demons. Why do you think that? No, listen to me just saying. Of course. Not the people.

The main reason is because of the need. If I flew commercial, I'd have to stop 65% of what I'm doing. That's really the main. Isn't it true that you want to fly commercial so that you can fly in luxury? How much money did you pay for Tyler Perry's Gulfstream jet, for example? Well, for example, that's really none of your business. But... Isn't it the business of your donors?

Listen. I've paid. You kind of caught me off guard here, okay. Yeah, you don't want to say how much you paid for that because that looks really bad. He's the, holy shit, I cannot say that word, that number. There's no way I can say like 60 million. So I better not say that. If you like to come out here, I'd like to give you a chance to catch your breath and have a conversation.

We don't want to catch you off guard. I love Inside Edition. You've got to get this now. Hey, you listen to me. My wife thinks inside edition is, oh, yeah. Now, thank you, Lord. Let me pray this. Well, let me just ask you a really simple.

Help me, Jesus. I'm screwed. What am I going to say? Yeah, well, you don't do very well, which is why Jesus was not talking to you in this interview. It was Satan, I think. A lot of people think it's unbecoming for a preacher to live a life of luxury and to fly around in private Jets. What's your response to that? Very simple. It takes a lot of money to do what we do. We have brought over 100, let's see, the latest figures just came out,

122 million people to the Lord Jesus Christ. Let me give you another example. Last May, I was scheduled for Lagos, Nigeria. That's a long ways. I had a week off, and I was scheduled for Peru. And you can't get to Nigeria on the demon tubes. You've got to take luxury planes from Tyler Perry. I mean, he's the guy to create a Medea, bro. How are we not buying the luxury Medea plane?

God, Almighty. These inside edition people are asking me these crazy-ass questions. Like, why do we spend $60 million on a plane? And why are their demons in commercial flights? I don't know. You tell me. Shit. And I prayed about it, and I thought, I'm not missing that dedication in Jerusalem.

Without the airplane that we have that I bought from Tyler Perry, and I didn't pay anywhere. And Tyler's one of the greatest guy. He made it. He made that airplane so cheap. me. I couldn't help but buy it. Yeah, it was like, it was originally 70 million and he made it like 68 million. They're like

crazy of a deal. Was that shit? How crazy is that, Sherry? Oh, my gosh. That's why, by the way, if I were buying anything and I'm like, no, he made me a deal on this. Are you, are you Satan? Are you trying to say that God did not replenish what, anyways?

Oh, my gosh. My question then, well, okay, all right, but I want going to get to the demons because people are very concerned about that comment let's get the chance here inside it is you i love your eyes and uh here's what happened here's what had happened was about jerlissell we flew in 21 days 70 hours 40 000 miles touched five continents and preached face to face personally with a hundred and twenty five thousand people. Do you ever use your private jets to go visit your vacation homes, for example? Yes, I do.

Okay. Again, getting back to the comment, you said that you don't like to fly commercial because you don't want to get into a tube with a bunch of demons. Do you really believe that human beings are demons? No, I do not. And don't you ever say I did? This dude's eyes right now, by the way. They're like demon-ish. Yes.

And he's pointing to her. He goes over his door in his, you know, Cadillac escalade, which he got a great deal on from Cadillac. Also, just so you know, you got an amazing deal. So don't you dare even ask about that price either. But he literally goes over the door and puts his finger in her face. And he's like, don't you dare ask about that. Anyways, God help me because I'm about to kill this woman. We wrestle not with flesh and blood, but principalities and powers.

Can you explain what you meant by that term then? Just explain, because it's really simple. You said you didn't want to get into a tube with a bunch of demons. What did you mean? Well, let me ask you. Do you think that people that fly commercial are demons? If you give me a chance to talk, sweetheart, I'll explain this to you. But it's a biblical thing.

It's a spiritual thing. It doesn't have anything to do with people. People. People, I love people. Jesus loves people. But people get pushed in alcohol. Do you think that's a good place for a preacher to be and prepare to go preach to a lot of people when somebody in there is dragging some woman down an aisle that it made me so mad to see that on television. I wanted to punch a guy out myself. I can't be doing that while I'm getting ready to preach. by a bunch of damn demons. Do you not think that's when you should be preaching the most? Yeah, you should be preaching on the freaking demon plane. Like, what the hell is wrong with you? I mean, it doesn't happen that, that often.

Well, you think about Jesus, Jesus went to the most filthy, ugliest people there were. And that's who he preached to. And that's what I thought you're supposed to do. Yeah, I mean, I just wonder, though, if Jesus would have bought a G5. And I mean, ugly, not in the sense of. looking but the ugly on the inside yeah i wonder if jesus would have bought a g5 versus flying southwest yeah probably jesus would have flown southwest or he probably would have just walked yeah i think he just used his sandals yeah and the reality of this is is kenneth copeland in this

interview i'm going to play the rest of this but we're making light of this and it's funny because it's there are people literally like this that represent themselves as christians and as evangelist that make multi multi millions of dollars and if you look at his church services they're packed they're packed it's kind of the same thing with joel osteen during the hurricane they're promising them riches and you know things that they can't really promise no they can't but i mean joel osteen during the the hurricane in texas where he did not open up his church to the people that needed the most and then after all the backlash she's like oh no we didn't do that we'll open our church up whatever this is not Godly behavior. This is not the behavior of Jesus. But we're not here to judge either. No, we're not,

but Jesus is going to. And I'll tell you, that's the biggest difference of other religions, and regardless of what you think is true or not, you know, other religions are based on a lot of different things. Jesus was someone that came down and he washed the feet of the thieves. He washed the feet of the criminals. And he led those criminals to salvation. And this is what we are supposed to be called on. If you follow Jesus or you are a true Christ believer, your job is to not separate yourself from the people that you think that you are above because nobody on this planet is above anybody. You are about, you are literally there to be called on to talk and preach and worship to those people. And it doesn't matter. Even the people that hate you

the most. And listen, I promise you I'm preaching not to the choir because I am the, my mind and the way my mind works on so many things I can get so much better at. But when I hear people like this and I see this and his representation of Christians of like people that are evangelical that are on TV that preach all of this stuff, the fact that he makes this amount of money. Right. From people that are there worshiping. And I don't even think they're worshipping God in a lot of kids. I'm not saying all the all people. But I think a lot of people worship him.

And I think he believes that. He gets in this God. It's like an idol. He's an idol. He's an idol. And exactly. And the Bible talks about idols. You're talking about Jesus washing the people's feet.

And as you're saying that, my dog is licking my feet. There you go. Maybe he's the next Jesus. No, he's not. But what I'm saying is my point to this is that this is what leads so many people astray from Christianity, from religion. It's when you have people like Kenneth Copeland and I even consider, you know, Joel Osteen, I don't know for sure what his heart is.

I don't know what any of these people heart is. All I'm saying is that this is what leads people astray. You just don't like to be around the sinful people or the hurtful people. Is that what you're saying? Not the people, baby. Not the people. Back during the days that we couldn't do anything else, we had to travel commercial. When I went to O'Roberts University, I flew for O'Roberts.

I'm a commercial pilot. So I spent a lot of time in airport. And you have how many planes? We have the Gulf Stream and we still have our Citation 10. And then we have a little small airplane. But both those are the two ones that we use. And we use them all the time. And other people use them too.

We have other ministries that use these in the book. And by the way, that plane's probably just those two planes he's talking about, the Gulf Stream and the Citation 10, probably worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 million. So that small plane is probably worth like $20 million. I don't know what the small plane he's talking about is. But when you're talking about Gulfstream and citation tens or whatever, now the question is, should a pastor like Kenneth Copeland be able to travel in luxury

and have, you know, by the way, he also has a $7 million house that's tax exempt because the thing is with 501 Cs or, you know, or even, even the church exemption to taxes, a lot of these pastors, they make boo-kos of money and they're tax-exempt because everything they do, they put through tax exemption. Yeah. But I do get to a, I'm not trying to argue the point. I'm just saying I do get the point when you're going to five different continents and you're going to all these different places.

You kind of only really do need a plane to get place to place instead of having to sit in airport for three hours for this, you know, departure and then have a layover for two hours and then get on this plane and then go here and go there. I mean, I think at that point, when you are traveling and you're a traveling speaker of some sense, you have to have a plane. Yeah. I just think it's the way that Kenneth Copeland answered these questions is horribly wrong. It's just he did not do a good job, but whatever.

Ephesians. Oh, God, I love this. we wrestle not with people but with principalities and powers unseen things rulers of the darkness of this world talking about the devil he's a very real devil just the same as Jesus is a very real lord and and I spent a lot of time on airlines but But the main thing that happened was not, that wasn't the main reason. The main reason was I could no longer do what I called to do and be on the airlines. Besides that, I need my clothes when I get there.

And you have some fancy clothes. I mean, for a pastor, you are living a life of luxury. You've got great homes. You've got great planes. You drive in limos. I'm a very wealthy man. You're a very wealthy man. Yes.

Yeah. And some people would say that is it appreci- May I add something to that? My wealth doesn't come from offerings alone. Because you sell things, books and DVDs. Yes. And I have a lot of natural gas on our property. Didn't know that, did you, babe?

Now I do. Yeah, you do. Isn't that wonderful? Well, I guess. It's wonderful for you. Back. When, and I might add another thing, too, we invest from, let's see, I don't know the exact number on last year yet, but it will run something in the neighborhood of 20, 25 million in the poor. You can't do that and be broke.

So final question is, a lot of people maybe have a misunderstanding then about what you do in prosperity preaching. So the final question is this. To those critics that say that a preacher should not be living a life of luxury, what is your response to that? They're wrong. That's it? That it's a misunderstanding of the Bible. That if you go into the old covenant,

do you think the Jewish people believe you should be broke? Are you saying that Jewish people appreciate money more than real? They believe in wealth. Some people would find that offensive. Wait a minute now. I'm not talking about some people. I'm talking about the Bible. The blessing of Abraham.

Abraham was extremely wealthy. And he had a covenant with God. It's not the Jewish blessing. It's the Abrahamic blessing. God, I get excited talking about it. I love it. And I started out deep in debt with nothing, which is another story. But anyway.

So you say that it's biblical and that there's a foundation in the Bible for this. Let me close it with this. I had to learn this, like I said, from the Bible and from my spiritual mentor, Oval Roberts. And I learned from him, working with him. and then we became, he was close friends until he died. And he took the same heat for believing God would prosper you that I've taken over the year. And Abraham was very, very wealthy man.

Galatians chapter three, if you belong to Christ, then are you Abraham's seed. and heirs according to his promise. And his promise was great wealth. All right. So there is Kenneth Copeland. And listen, my last message to this is that we talked about the Amniville horror.

We talked about the demon-like spirits that inhabit this world. And one thing I want to let you guys know is that it inhabits, it inhabits almost everything that we kind of experienced, that we touch, that we see, that we listen to. And you can follow the wrong people. And, you know, Kenneth Copeland in this interview, it sounds like he's more for the money, more for his own ego, more for what he believes he is getting through preaching about God, not for God's own, you know, mission, not for his worship, not for what Jesus. Jesus and God are about, but for Kenneth Copeland himself. And there are so many people like that

today that is sickening. And I'm not saying that Kenneth Copeland is a bad person. You guys can make your own judgment on that. But what I am saying is, is that as he says that we do not wrestle with flesh and blood, although he got that saying wrong the second time, we wrestle with the darker side, the principalities, the evil spirits. And those evil spirits can inhabit human flesh. and that human flesh can then represent themselves as Christ's followers. And those are called false prophets. And there were many false prophets in the Bible. There were many.

And there are many people still today that you will follow and worship. Whether you understand or realize it or not that are going to lead you into a place that is not like of God, not of Jesus, but of their own ego. And that then creates your ego. And Ken to Copeland, I think, is a great example of this. The Amoeville horror stuff, is it fiction or is it fact? That's the question. Was the Lutz family a grifter or were they not?

And hopefully we'll have a series two where we actually play the interview with Butch. Yeah. Oh, Butch, yeah. The guy Ronald Jr. Butch, he has an actual interview, which we're going to break down and talk about it and see whether we think he's full of shit. Like, is he telling the truth? Is this a big grift, the Amniville horror story? Because his story is completely different.

Yeah, absolutely it is. But the reality is, is what we wanted to talk about in this episode is that regardless of whether these people were grifters, it's the same thing with the UFO community. There are definitely going to be grifters in everything. There's going to be grifters in religion and God and Jesus and UFOs and you name it. I mean, there's grifters in everything. Health. I mean, there's a reason why you see so many health influencers that are trying to sell you something. People are trying to sell you something in the paranormal, whether it's movies, books, or other.

People are trying to sell you something on religion. I mean, there's a reason why Kenneth Copeland and people like this get so rich. They sell you something based on their grift to that. ideology or to that, you know, topic or or whatever it is theme. But what you have to do is you have to be as grounded and researched as possible. And you have to be, you know, and it's what I tell Sherry all the time. There are things that you can pick out of everything. And even with Sherry's like, you know, the orb deal.

And when you want to go and check out the orbs and communicate with those things, I think there are absolutely certain facets of like what some of these exorcists say about how you can open yourself up to demonic possession or obsession or oppression. And I think that we're oftentimes in most cases tempted the other way rather than we're tempted towards God or towards Jesus. America does have, I guess, some backbone with God, but that's fast approaching non-existence. America is straying. more and more away from God than it is for God. I think there are more egos in our government and more, I guess, what you can call

control freaks in our government than ever before. I think that we're seeing this around the world. But I do want to play out this episode and we're going to talk about the interview, right? Ronald Jr. We're going to talk about Ronald Jr. and he's the guy that committed the murders. Right. Ron Defeo Jr.

Defeo, yeah. Defeo. Yeah. He's the one that committed to murders. And on the next part of this series, we're going to break down his interview. What we think. Do we think he's lying? Do we think he's telling the truth?

All of that. We're going to close this out with the old, good old song, A, B, C, D, E, F you. And the reason we're playing it out with this is because there's a lot of people like old Kent Copeland that make a shit ton of money off of what you believe that they say. So, this is a song for those people. Until next time, guys. We love you. Peace out.

Peace out, guys. I love you. You do anything for my affection You're going all about it in the worst ways I wouldn't take it But yourself with any sister, any job And you broke ass card And that's what you call

Are fuck you and your friends And I'll never see it again Everybody but you thought You can all fuck off