Investigate Earth Conspiracy Podcast - Idaho Student Murders Podcasts | Affidavit Breakdown | So Many Questions True Crime Podcast

Episode Date: January 6, 2023

On this epsiode of the Idaho Student Murders Podcasts, we breakdown the affidavit that was released today as Bryan Kohberger arrived back in Idaho to face the court. This affidavist has opened up more questions in some cases than answers. Join us as we dive deep into this new revealing information.In the early morning hours of November 13, 2022, between4 and 4:30 AM, four University of Idaho college students were stabbed to death in their off campud home in which three of them resided. The three female victims–Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, and Xana Kernodle–lived at the house, while the fourth victim, Ethan Chapin, was Kernodle's boyfriend who was sleeping over on the night of the attacks. Two other female roommates also lived at the house; they were not attacked, and were not injured.

It's just for a minute. I'd fall asleep and night to admit it. I'm out of ideas. I don't know what the times I think. When it's chival. Welcome to Investigator at the podcast. I'm your host, Chad, alongside my wife, Sherry. Hope everyone is doing fantastic out there this evening.

It is January the 5th, 2023. And on tonight's episode, we are going to talk about the Idaho student murders affidavit that was released today. It details extensively what evidence they have apparently against Brian Koberger, how the murders potentially happened, or at least in what order. And it even talks about some things that many people had no idea about. And it is leading to a lot of questions, really. I mean, it is leading to things that people are questioning because everyone, I guess, up until the affidavit has been released. Everyone kind of thought they knew how everything played out.

And some people got it right decently, but there's one in particular circumstance in this affidavit that is very mind-blowing. And so we're going to talk about all that. Absolutely. And we're so glad you guys are here. And before we even get started, we just want to send out our prayers to the families because I cannot even imagine losing my child in this manner.

And I think this is why these murder. have gone nationwide and international is because it's just so hard to believe in shocking that someone would take four innocent lives under the age of 21. Yeah. And they had so much to live for and they were going places and had dreams and futures

and they're left with nothing and their families don't have them in their lives anymore. And it truly is heartbreaking for us. And we just want the families and everyone else to know that we are definitely praying for them and we're heartbroken for them. Yeah. And that song, we've used this song in every one of the Idaho murders podcast and shivers by 11 caliber. The song basically just details how, you know, if you guys have ever either lost someone or whatever.

And you oftentimes, especially like when you wake up and you realize the reality of what's really going on or, you know, sometimes when you sleep, you kind of, you forget the reality. you wake up, you realize that, like, I no longer have this person anymore. This person is gone forever. And this is what the families are dealing with. And so we just want to make sure that everyone understands and knows that. And, you know, I know all of us are talking about it. I think it's important to talk about things like this. I think it's important to get out information.

And there's been a lot of people during this entire process that has done everything they could to try to solve this crime, try to figure this out for law enforcement. A lot of people didn't have a lot of, I guess, trust in law enforcement. or, you know, that they were doing the right thing. They were getting the evidence they were supposed to get. And actually, the affidavit, at least the way it sounds, it sounds like they were kind of on Brian Koberger's tale for a little while. Yeah, I think they fooled us from the beginning because a lot of people, not us,

but a lot of people were speculating since this is a very small town. And these police have not dealt with a murder in over five years that they would not know how to handle it, appropriately and do what they need to do best. But I think they've fooled people, and I think that they've done a really good job of getting what they need to get. Yeah. Well, and I will say, I mean, we have at least questioned, though.

I mean, you say not us, but we have questioned. We have questioned the fact that when you desperately beg for people's or the public's help, right, and help and solve this crime. Right. That's something that you're probably going to do regardless of how much information you think you have on someone, especially until the DNA evidence comes back. And, you know, DNA evidence typically takes a little while to come back. It doesn't come back overnight.

This is something that has to be sent through systems and many different ways. And, you know, it's often said that DNA evidence takes about a month in some cases to come back. And if we look at kind of the timeline, a month, seven weeks, I think we're almost on eight weeks, or maybe we are on eight weeks now. Yeah, I mean, you've got to say that this. this whole thing. I think they were really waiting for the DNA evidence to come back. I think they knew who their suspect probably was. I think they knew probably even where he was the entire time. And so we're going to talk about all that. And the affidavit is nuts. It is nuts because we're going

to ask some questions on this episode. I mean, there's no harm in asking questions because these are logical questions that anyone with common sense would ask. And, and, and, and, and, and, And I'm sure that when they released this affidavit, I'm sure whoever released it and the officers involved said that, hey, this is probably not going to look great in certain aspects of this. So, and I'm sure they probably advised certain people that this is not going to look great because, you know, the circumstances. Right. But they do have a bunch of evidence and it's way more detailed. Detailed than what we thought it ever would be. Like I was expecting when this was going to come out, it'd be like a paragraph or something and everything was going to be redacted. And everything was going to be hidden like they've hidden this whole case.

Well, we're used to government files. Yeah. But even them, like every time they're reporting or having a news conference, they wouldn't give any details or information because they didn't want to jeopardize the case. But this spills it out pretty clearly. Yeah. And guys, before we get into this, we're about to get into the nuts and bolts of this. If you have not heard or at least have somewhere to go to listen to the entire affidavit without interruption, without conversation, and without any of that, we released an episode prior to this one. It is the full affidavit.

It is just completely read through 19 pages. I did that. It was not easy because 19 pages of reading this stuff is not easy, but I did do that. So you don't have to go read it yourself. You guys can go listen to it if you want. And so this episode, we're going to break down at least like the first half of it. especially the crime scene aspect of it. And then we will discuss the other parts that we have read about the affidavit

and just kind of talk about those. But we're not going to go through word for word of the affidavit, but we're specifically going to focus on the crime scene and what they found and how they found the crime scene. That's what we're going to talk about on tonight's podcast. But before we get in that, I do want to say we are on Twitter. And the reason why we want to tell you we're on Twitter is because Twitter has an amazing thing that I think it's going to be the next really big thing.

And especially for people in true crime or any of that stuff, Twitter is doing Twitter spaces. And if you guys go follow us on Twitter, you know, investigate our podcast. Just look us up. We want to do some Twitter spaces about this case and other cases in the future. And what Twitter spaces basically is, is that you follow us. We set up a Twitter space. You join the Twitter space at a certain time or whatever is scheduled for. and then so say there's 2,000 of us in there.

If you want to speak, you can request to speak, and we can bring you up on the panel. And so if you have something to say, and by the way, you can do this all on your phone. You don't have to have a microphone or anything. You can talk on your phone. You can offer your input, your speculation, your whatever. And it's kind of like we're all just sitting in a big living room.

It's not really, I mean, it is public, but it's not like a podcast like this. It's not on Spotify and everything. It is a Twitter space. we can delete it if we want to afterwards or whatever the case is, but it is somewhere we can go and speculate, we can talk, we can discuss theories,

we can do all of that stuff. And all that's going to do is be able to have a place that people can get together, talk about the same things, and try to figure out things that it's going to be harder to do through text or through message boards or whatever. So go follow us on Investigators podcast. We want to have you guys over there. We want to start some Twitter spaces.

And we want to get you guys involved. So I do want to just say that before we get into this. All right. So let's go into this. So just so you know, Brett Payne is the officer. This is Exhibit A, and this is the statement of Brett Payne. And so Brett Payne is employed by Moscow Police Department, and he is a corporal at Moscow Police Department.

And so on November 13th, at 4 p.m., Moscow Police Department Sergeant Blaker responded with Brett Payne to 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho. and this was due to potentially four homicides. So Officer Smith and Brett Payne entered the King Road residence through the bottom floor door on the north side of the building. Officer Smith and Brett walked upstairs to the second floor. Officer Smith directed Brett down the hallway to the west bedroom on the second floor, which he later learned that through Zana's driver's license and other personal belongings found in the room was Zana Kurnodles. So they're going to refer to Kurnodal as Kurnodal's room.

So just before this room, there was a bedroom door on the south wall of the hallway. And Brett said as he approached the room, I could see a body, later identified as Karnotel's laying on the floor. Kurnodle was deceased with wounds, which appeared to have been caused by an edged weapon. So already right here, we're seeing that she is in the floor of this bedroom, right? So this says at the very least that she was either fighting or upright during, at one point in time, during the fight or the struggle with Brian or the attacker. And absolutely that's been confirmed through her dad because he said that she had defensive wounds, that she was fighting back during this time. And we'll see later in the affidavit that explains it further. Yeah, for sure.

So also in the room was a male, which was later identified as Ethan Chapin, hereafter referred to as Chapin. Chapin is also deceased with wounds later determined by autopsy reports to be a sharp force injury or injuries. He then followed Officer Smith upstairs to the third floor of the residence, and the third floor consists of two bedrooms and one bathroom. The bedroom on the west side of the floor was later determined to be Kaylee Gonzave's, hereafter, Gonzave's room. I later learned from review of Officer Nunes' body camera. There was a dog in the room when Moscow Police Department officers initially responded. The dog belonged to Gonzávez and her boyfriend, Jack DeCore. I found out from my interview with Jack DeCore on November 13th that he and Gonzávez shared the dog.

Officer Smith then pointed out a small bathroom on the east side of the third floor. This bathroom shared a wall with Madison Mogan's bedroom, which was situated in the southeast corner of the war. So before we get too much further, it doesn't say where Ethan is, right? It doesn't say if he is on the bed or if he's in the floor. It doesn't necessarily say how they found Ethan. Exactly. They just explained that Ethan is in the room with Zana.

People had speculated that Ethan was out in the hall that maybe he came in contact with Brian and there was some kind of conflict and then Brian killed Ethan and then went into Zana's room and killed her last. Yeah. But he was in her room, which is, and she was on the bed. I mean, she was on the floor. Yeah, you're right.

And so as they entered the bedroom, which is Madison's bedroom, they could see two females in the single bed in the room. So both Gonsovets and Mogan were deceased with visible stab wounds. They also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath

laying on the bed next to Mogan's right side when viewed from the door. The sheath was later processed and had K-BAR, USMC, and the United States Marine Corps Eagle Globe and Anchor Insignia stamped on the outside of it. The Idaho State Lab later located

a single source of male DNA suspect profile left on the button snap of the knife sheet. So this is something I want to also bring up real quick. The fact they found, at the very least, the sheath there, pretty much says that this was the first place he used the knife. Absolutely.

You're not going to find a sheath downstairs or whatever. You're going to find it wherever he first took the knife out and started the stabbing. And, you know, given the circumstances of how violent and how crazy, even in this psychopath's head, but no, screw it. In this psychopaths, I was going to say alleged psychopath, but anyways, in any psychopath's head that would do that. even in their head this was probably the reason he left and a lot of people were saying I can't believe he would leave a nice sheath

or leave all this evidence. He's a PhD student at Washington State University this is something he gets off on just the whole crime criminality criminal behavior he did studies about criminals and what they were thinking prior to

their committing of the crime he studied this. This is a something that he religiously studied was what criminals did and how they thought. And a lot of this was to get away with things. He wanted to know how he could get away with stuff. But what I think maybe he did not take into consideration. This is something that I will tell you, based on boxing or fighting. You can train in fighting every day. You can spar every single day with someone, right? You can spar and spar and spar and spar and spar and spar. And then you get in a competition or you get into a boxing, ring in under the lights in front of 10,000 people or 20,000 or whatever, and you're on TV

and all this stuff. And then all of a sudden, all your training, you're like, holy shit, this is completely different, right? Like, I've trained for this. I've got my mind right for this. But this is the big stage. This is the moment. This is the moment where this shit is real, right? And although you train for this and you think that you got your mind prepared for this, when he was, when he took that nice sheath off and laid it there, whatever and started stabbing her, I think his mind just went completely. Like the nice sheath, he didn't even think about it anymore. And like you said, he's a Ph.D. student. And everyone knows you're going to find evidence on a knife cover. Obviously, you know they're going to find it.

Yeah, I think this was just a complete F-up on him. I think it was just in the moment thing that it was just like he was under lights all of a sudden. He thought he had trained enough for this. but his mind and adrenaline and everything else taught him otherwise. And I think his, I honestly think nature is what screwed him. I think how your fight or flight thing that just happens inside of you when craziness happens, I think that just took over him. And he didn't even realize maybe that it would do that. But I think that's why the nice sheath was there.

That is my opinion. That's the only explanation because they say how brilliant and smart this guy is. Well, that doesn't sound very brilliant to leave part of the knife evidence in the bed with the two girls on the top floor. No, it's not very brilliant at all. So the other part of this, too, is that a dog was found in a room that was, I guess, unoccupied. And I just want you guys to visualize this minute because it took me time. I read this thing five or six times to really visualize what was going on in this house. So from this point, what we know is Brian comes through the sliding glass door on the second.

level where Ethan and Zena is. He does not kill them first. He goes upstairs and kills Kaylee and Maddie first. Kaylee and Maddie are found in Maddie's room on the east side. Murphy, Kaylee's dog, was found in Kaylee's room on the west side the next day. Which I guess is, if you're looking at it, kind of like across the hall or something. Right. The rooms were right across from each other.

other. The bathroom they shared was right in front of Maddie's room. So if you can visualize it, it's Kaylee's room to the left, Maddie's to the right, the bathroom in front of Maddie's. Murphy was in Kaylee's room to the left, and the two girls were found in the room to the right. Which leads me to believe Murphy, the dog, had been there since the crimes took place. So I don't know if Murphy saw the crimes. I don't know if he was in Kaylee's room the whole time.

But I think it's really important as we go further and dig further that we know that Murphy was in Kaylee's room by himself and Kaylee and Maddie were upstairs in Maddie's room in her bed. Yeah, so we could speculate here, by the way, just thinking about this, we could speculate and say maybe Brian the murderer, potential murder, alleged murder, locked the dog in the room to avoid whatever. I don't think that's actually the case probably. More than likely since Kaylee was in Maddie's room, Kaylee probably left the dog in her room. or put him away in her room while she went and talked to Maddie or hung out with Maddie or whatever the case was, right? Right. And remember at that night,

she was texting her boyfriend or ex-boyfriend a thousand times and saying, we have a dog together, blah, blah, blah. And then after she texted and not getting any reply from him, she had Maddie text him from her phone. So that leads me to believe the two girls were in the same room together when that was happening. And so she must have left Murphy in her room and went into Maddie's room.

Maybe Murphy did something bad. Like maybe that's why she locked him in her room and she went in the room and was texting Jack about the dog. Oh, maybe. Maybe like, come get this damn dog. I mean, literally, you get a thing about stuff like that. Who knows? Oh, yeah, because Chad goes that to me about our dog all the time. Yeah.

But who knows? But just so you have a picture of what happens. So Murphy's in a room by himself upstairs. The two girls are in the room to the right together in the same bed. Yeah. And the knife cover was found next to the girls in the bed. Yeah. So we also need to talk about this is a knife that is a K-bar knife.

It is USMC or United States Marine Corp Eagle Globe insignia on the knife. Now this knife is very popular with military. This is something that although can be issued to military, it can also be bought at Army or Navy surplus stores. You can find these type of knives. They're typically, I don't know, I mean, there's a lot of like the Rambo knives. That's why, you know, that's why when, I guess, the law enforcement saw the sheath and all that, they kind of knew what the knife was.

So that's why they were saying, if you think about the Rambo knife, right, this is what we're looking for. Right. And so if you guys look up the Rambo knife or K-Bar Knife, USMC, you'll know what it looks like. Yeah, and it even had the emblem, emblem on it. Yeah. Which makes it sound official. But what was crazy is, you know, I read a lot. But there was a guy that was in a mask that was accused of being the killer.

Well, this guy actually has come out. He's like, no, dude, I sold that dude, the knife. And you can see it on my Vimo account. I sold it for $350 to him. So I wonder if they're going to bring him to court later. Yeah, we'll see if that's true. Because if he did sell the knife, he will damn sure be brought into court probably. And $350 sounds like a reasonable price for that type of knife or no.

Yeah, I mean, not for a K-bar-type knife, typically, I guess. But if it's like a USMC with insignia and stuff, yeah, it could be, because it could be a collector's item or something, which oftentimes collectors' item knives will be sharp and all that stuff. But, yeah, I mean, but K-Bar knives are not the greatest knives either. I mean, they're, you know, they've always kind of been known to just be, you know, okay knives. They're not like the top-of-line knife selection you would ever pick.

but they are very nostalgic, especially among military slash someone like Brian Koberger that studies serial killers and just crazy shit. He wanted to do something crazy. He wanted to, you know, this stabbing,

in my opinion, I think he wanted to make a statement and he wanted to make a statement to the world and he wanted to do this with a stabbing. And it's not that he couldn't have shot these people. Oh, that's not going to make the statement, though. It's not. I think he wanted to be as physical and as brutal as he could.

and I think this is something that has been in his mindset based on studying serial killers, for example. I don't think we've talked about us on the podcast before we go further, but one of his professors was a huge, what is a BTK serial killer professor.

Yeah, she even had contact with BTK or, yeah, BTK, yeah. Yeah, had contact with him, wrote a book about how to get away with a murder. Yeah, she was like his right side girl, right? I mean, because they communicated so much. She is who he trusted to write his book. And, you know, BTK's daughter recently came out and said, I don't, we're not sure right now whether or not Brian had contact with my father, which is

BTK, the serial killer. Right. So it's crazy. And BTK's daughter is just flabbergasted by this whole thing as well, which I mean, you can only imagine what the daughter's been through for so long. And now it's like it's bringing BTK kind of back into it now with another serial killing. Right. But anyways, we'll get back into the serial killing thing in a minute because I think that's also something we, that's important to talk about. So this also talks about, you know, and keeping in mind, they found DNA on the knife sleeve. Right. On the button of it, like where you released the knife to get it out.

Yeah, so as a part of the investigation, numerous interviews were conducted by Moscow Police Department, Idaho State Police and FBI. Two of the interviews included BF and D.M. and BF is Bethany and Dillon. These are the two surviving roommates. Both Bethany and Dillon were inside the King Road residence at the time of the homicides and were roommates to the victims. A BS bedroom was located on the east side

of the first floor of the King Road residence. So this is the very bottom floor. This is where has been very famous for the pictures showing where all the patrol cars usually are with the tape and it's just a split level part of the residence. So Bethany's room This is where they found the door open

What was that? Right, the next morning At 8.30 in the morning But just for you to visualize now Because I think I was a little bit wrong When I drew the map out now That you said that Bethany's room Was on the east side

So Bethany was on the very bottom On the right side Above her on the second floor Was the spare bedroom And on top of the spare bedroom Is Maddie's room If that helps you kind of visualize

where everything is taking place. Yeah. Yeah, Maddie's above the spare. So based on his numerous interviews conducted by MPD officers and FBI, this is what they concluded. So on the evening of November 12th, Chapin and Carnotle are seen by Bethany

at the Sigma Chai House on the University of Idaho campus, and they saw them from 9 p.m. to November 12th to 145 a.m. November 13th. Bethany also estimated that approximately 145 Chapin and Kernodal returned to the Kingward residence. Bethany also stated that Chapin did not live in the Kingward residence but was a guest of carnettles. And obviously we know Ethan is. Cernodontas and Mogan were at a local bar, the corner club.

And we all know about this. They were at the food truck. And this food truck broadcasted them between 10 p.m. and we think between 10 p.m. November 12th and 1.30 a.m. November 13th. Yeah, they were at the bar from 10 to 130 and then they went to the food truck. Yeah. And so if we get past that, Dylan and Bethany both made statements during interviews that indicated the occupants at the Keenra residents were at home by 2 a.m. and asleep, at least in their rooms by approximately 4. Now, there's something to be said about

asleep or not. This is with the exception of Kernodal who received a daughter. DoorDash order at the residence at approximately 4 a.m. And law enforcement identified a door dash delivery driver and reported this information. This was, what, Jack in the Box? Yeah, it was jack in the box. Yeah. Yeah. So Dylan stated that she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor. And Dylan stated she was awoken.

And let me stop here. The speculation and everything we thought we knew up until now was that Dylan was on the first floor. the very bottom floor with Bethany. These were the two surviving roommates. So kind of the analogy of this whole thing was the reason that Bethany and Dylan survived was because the killer did not see them. On the first floor. Yeah, on the first floor because he did not come in through that floor. And so this is why they survived.

And this is also why they didn't hear anything. They didn't call law enforcement or 911. At the time of all this happening, there's been so much speculation about, like, well, how much do you think that could be heard from that? bottom floor. There's even been students and people that have been in this house that said, well, if you're on the second floor, you may not be able to hear things on the second floor and the third floor because, you know, this and that. Okay. That's really muffled, blah, blah, so just remember all that speculation. But just so you know, speculation is, or I think we pretty much know that the murderer came through the sliding glass door on the second floor. Yeah.

Okay. Thinking about what we thought before, Bethany and Dylan were on the first floor. He did not go through the door because that's the first floor. Which is why we thought neither of them called the cops or police, and we thought that they didn't probably hear anything because of that. Exactly. Because on the second floor where the sliding glass door is in the kitchen, Zana's room is to the left, and then there is a spare bedroom to the right where there used to be a renter there that moved out.

So since the renter moved out, Dylan moved up into the spare bedroom. The spare bedroom is to the right across from Zanah's. So if you think about it, Zana's on the left, Dylan's on the right. Maddie's bedroom is on top of Dylan's bedroom bedroom, bedroom, sorry, bedroom. I'm just trying to make you visualize it. Yeah, I get you. You know? I think I get you.

Actually, I was trying to contemplate this next thing. So Dylan stated she was awoken at approximately 4 a.m. By what she stated sounded like Goncabes playing with her dog or Gonsovades. I don't know. I think it's gone soffey. Kaly. Playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were located on the third floor.

So Dylan said she was awoken in approximately 4 a.m. With what she thought that it was Kaylee playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms. But we know that's not what was happening. At 4 a.m., the suspect went upstairs and whatever. Kaly might have been in her room. room with her dog? I don't know, but they ended up in Maddie's room.

Yeah, so one of the very first things we can already tell from this, just so you know, is that Dylan's saying that she was awoken at 4 a.m. by what she stated, it sounded like Goncávez playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, right? This sounds like she can hear it pretty well. It's the third floor, so which means, is she on the second floor? Because she is. Maybe she thought that the dog was in Maddie's room. Who knows? I don't know. But a short time later, Dylan said she heard who she thought was Goncávez saying something to the effect of there's someone here. A review of records obtained from a forensics download of Kernodle's phone showed that this could

also have been Kernodal as her cellular phone indicated that she was likely awake and using TikTok at approximately 412 a.m. Dylan stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house. Dylan stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kronotel's room. Dylan then said she heard a male voice say something in the effect it's okay, I'm going to help you. At approximately 4.17 a security camera located at 112 Keen residents immediately to the northwest, picked up distorted audio of what sound like voices were a whimper from a

followed by a loud thud. A dog can also be heard barking numerous times starting at 417. The security camera is less than 50 feet from the west wall of Kernodal's room. So the core. pointed out when the corner and I think the corner made a lot of mistakes but the coroner said that they most of them were in bed asleep yeah the corner just said all kinds of shit that she should never have so zana was at least we know up at 4 a.m because that's when her door dash arrived at 417 her phone was active and she was on tick to tick talk tick tock sorry tick tak tock she was on so she was actively awake between 4 and 470 We know that, right? Then, Beth, or Dylan said she heard a thud. At what time was that? No, Dylan didn't say she heard a thud.

I mean, well, no, the security camera heard a thud. Sorry. And dogs barking and all that. Right. But yeah, it wasn't Dylan. But Dylan did say that she looked out of her bedroom and didn't see anything. And so at approximately 417, the security camera heard the dog and all that stuff. And then Dylan stated she opened her.

door for the third time after she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose walking towards her. Dylan described the figure as 5-10 or tall or male not very muscular but athletically built with brushy eyebrows or bushy, sorry brushy. The male walked past Dylan as she stood in frozen shock phase. The male walked towards the back sliding glass door and Dylan looked herself, sorry, Dylan locked herself in the bedroom and said that the mail went out of the sliding glass door, which led the investigators to believe that the murder left the scene.

So what we know from at least all this is, number one, Dylan is, was sleeping on the second floor, okay? So all of that speculation and all of this, there's been so many conversations about how the two surviving roommates could not have heard all of this commotion. There's been so much speculation about why,

you know, if they possibly did hear something, then why would they have not called cops even just hearing something? I mean, look, and we also understand that, like, you know, college students, they party, they get drunk, so on, right? I mean, and you can, and so there was a ton of speculation about these students were probably passed out in their bed, and they didn't hear anything, right? But what we are hearing from this affidavit is that Dylan saw this male walk past her, towards her, she says, and she could call out.

basically his height, bushy eyebrows, a lot of information. All black. And there's been a lot of speculation I've been seeing since today. A lot of people are saying, oh, it was probably dark in the room and, you know, she didn't know, whatever. And I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that you're probably not going to see a lot of detail being a black house.

And also, if Karnodal was awake, it wouldn't have been a dark house anyway, particularly. But, you know, keeping in mind, too, that Karnodal was on the third floor, right? Or second floor? Zana. Zana's on the second floor. Okay, sorry. Across from Dillon. I know. It gets really confusing.

It does. I hear this, like, the whole combination of all this all the time. So she basically was across, you know, on the same floor, hearing her cry, hearing Zana cry, and went back in her room and then came back. and this guy in a black mask is walking toward her. And there's even a footprint, and we'll read that later, where it proves what she was saying was the truth. This suspect, Brian, came walking towards her. There's a footprint right in front of her door.

And then he turns around and he walks out and goes out the sliding door. Yeah. And right here, to what you're saying, during the process of the crime scene, investigators found a shoe print. This was located during the second process of the crime. crime seen by ISP Forensics team by first using a presumptive blood test and then Almenoblite, a protein saying it detects the presence of cellular material.

The detected shoe print showed a diamond-shaped pattern similar to the pattern of a vans-type shoe just outside the door of DM's bedroom, Dylan, located on the second floor. So this is consistent with Dylan's statement regarding the suspect's path of travel. So this footprint is right outside the door. Dylan saw this person. I mean, the way this sounds to me at the very least, okay, and I'm just saying, and I have no idea. So I don't want to get crazy in speculation.

But the way it's explained is like, because you had mentioned to me earlier, and you said that, you know, if Dylan had just cracked her door open, you know, I would have thought she would have been like, you know, I saw him coming down the hall. Typically people will say stuff like that if they cracked the door open to hide. But the way it was

The way she kind of said it was Like he was coming towards me Right And she was frozen You were open to this And you were frozen like Yeah Like a deer in the headlights kind of

Yes And so what I'm saying is like If she would have been And I'm saying that she wasn't I'm just You know Throwing out things So she was in her room

And she cracked her door Right Being frozen And he was coming Towards her And she froze And the footstep is right at her doorstep, they were pretty much face to face is what this sounds like. It does. It does

sound like. They don't say how far the footstep is from her door, but they say outside her door. It almost sounds like she was vulnerable, almost in shock and did not know what to do. Okay. Right. She was shocked and froze. She said I froze. And listen, guys, I want you to send us a message and to say what your thoughts are on that. Like, you know, just the way that the affidavit explains it. Does it sound like to you that she cracked a door open, saw some figure kind of walking down the hallway and whatever, and she made out all these things just by cracking a door and seeing? I think she did froze.

Well, no, I mean, I'm freeze. Freeze, sorry. And, yeah, of course she froze. I mean, I'm not saying she did it. What I'm saying is, is that even cracking a door, you know, you're going to, it's going to be, I guess, tougher to see details of, a subject and so on and so forth. And also it kind of tells me that the house was not dark.

Right. It was not pitch black house. Because if it was, it would have been really hard to see any of these details about anything with the crack door. Right. Bushy eyebrows, the mouth and nose covered, everything. Yeah. So they found the shoe print outside the room. And so as part of the investigation, the extensive search, commonly referred to as a video canvas. They conducted in King Road. The video canvas attained footage from early morning hours of Nober 13th. In the area of King of Residents, surrounded neighborhoods, an effort to locate the suspect or vehicles traveling to and from,

and the video cameras resulted in a collection of numerous surveillance videos in the area from the residential and business addresses. And so basically, the review of camera footage indicated that white sedan, suspect vehicle one, was absorbed traveling westbound on the 700 block Indian Hills Drive in Moscow. And this

was at approximately 3.26 a.m. and westbound on Steiner Avenue at Idaho State Highway 95 in Moscow. approximately 328. And so what it kind of goes on to say, the rest of this, is that they tracked this guy, they saw this guy, they knew that there was even an officer at Washington State University. It ran his plates. They knew this was Brian Kernodle.

They knew this for, it sounded like to be a while. They knew that he had been around Moscow and around that residence at least 12 times, right, in the months leading up to the murders, which leads to the stalking thing. He had been stalking these people. What we don't know, I guess, is did he ever have any communication with any of the people in the house? Whether or not that was Zana or Maddie or Kaylee or even Ethan or Dylan or Bethany, right? We don't know that. That's the part that the affidavit does not say.

Right. And I don't think they know yet. Yeah. And when you go to the Internet, it's so hard to get real evidence because what's things like, this get out. People are making false Facebooks and Instagrams and they're claiming to be this person that they're not

and it just messes everything up so you don't know. Well what I will say is that what I will say is that if and I'm not positive about this but if Brian had had communication with any of the four in this group

or six in this group I guess it would have seemed like maybe unless Brian had communication with Dylan or Bethany. And the only reason I say that is because they would not put that as a part of the affidavit necessarily.

But if he would have had communication in my opinion with any of the four victims, it would have seemed like to me that it would have been somewhere included in this affidavit to where it says Brian had contacted Kaylee before or Zana or whatever.

And he had said and talked about this and said, hey, let's meet here at a certain time. And, you know, they would have used that, at least in my mind, to build the investigation to or the evidence towards that he did this. At least that's what I think. And it could be wrong. Maybe they, maybe in court, they bring in all kinds of shit.

Like, look, you see where he messaged her to here and here and here. Right. But with Dylan and Bethany, or either of surviving ruinous, they were not directly victims. And if they ever potentially look at anyone else as any criminality side of this, right, they would not release any communication that someone could have had with someone else. Okay, and I could be wrong about this too. And I'm not saying there are, you know, any of that.

But here's the question, though. And I think this is the big looming question that's on everyone's minds. Dylan saw this suspect. Face to face. Face to face or, you know, at least to where she could describe the suspect. Right.

I guess the question that everybody has is, you know, so she sees this. And if you're on the same floor of two people that get murdered, right? And listen, I don't know, I've never seen anyone stab to death, I guess, in person. Like, you know, I've never seen that happen in person. But I have actually seen videos of someone being stabbed before, like on some crazy ass. Like the leak. like crazy stuff that I've seen before on the internet and it's just

you know when when something like that happened I've seen people impelled because of being the fire department stuff this is not a very quiet thing even if you are stabbed no matter where you're stabbed you don't typically go out quiet and it's in a struggle the struggle was very loud typically even if you are asleep if you're asleep and you get hit and bite of organs pretty fast

that's going to not be as loud but And we know for a fact that Zana struggled back. She fought this guy because her dad said that because the coroner told her that. Yeah, so you have Dylan on the second floor. You have Zana. Across from her on the second floor. Zana was on the floor. Okay, so and also the other thing when you hear the affidavit and listen to Avidavit,

Zana, as they approach the bedroom, it says, okay? There's a bathroom. They see her body. As they approached the bed. Yeah, so which means the door was open. Yeah. They see her body first and then Ethan's. Yeah, obviously I believe the door was open.

And with that being said, you have Dylan on the same floor with a door open to where this horrific murder happened. Now, I don't know. We don't know where Ethan was found. We don't know if he was found on the floor. We don't know any of that. In the bed. But if you look at the pictures, Chad, of the blood draining from the house. Yeah.

And looking at. That would have been Zana and Ethan. Yeah, in Zana's room. But if you look at Zana's bedroom setup, which you can see because she was selling a desk or something. And people had pictures of what her room looked like. Her bed was situated on the west side. And there was blood draining down that side in her room, which to me means that Ethan somehow it had to be in the bed, which I was completely, like, baffled about that. Well, it depends on where the blood kind of came down.

I don't know. It was on the west side. I know, but we don't know where the bed was in the room. Yeah, we do because we have pictures of it. Oh, okay, I got you. Yeah, you're right. But either way, I mean, between those two, we know that if Zana was in the floor, right? And there was a big thud on the video to the house. And Zana was the one, and sorry, I don't want to, this confused me a little bit,

but Zana was the one that was awake, they ordered DoorDash. Yes. Okay. And she was on TikTok. And TikTok. Okay. So that tells me that she was awake. So there's a huge thing here that she at the very least was awake. Okay? So Ethan, unless... Maybe he was asleep. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead.

Sorry. Unless Ethan was asleep, he could have been passed out. He could have been asleep. Whatever. We don't know. Or he could have been awake, right? I don't know. But at the very least, the one person we know that was awake was Zana from. what it sounds like, which is on the same floor as Dylan, which we also kind of know that Zana's door probably was open. And someone that's awake with a murderer coming in there and stabbing them, we know that's going to be a very loud experience. Zana is going to be screaming. She's going to be fighting, which is probably why she was found in the floor. I don't know. if Zana was awake, I would say

that the murder would have had to have killed her first. Yeah. And so as this killing is happening and she's screaming, because she's not going to not scream, she's not going to not fight back. Ethan would have had to have woken up, maybe, I guess. I mean, unless someone's just completely trashed or whatever. But even still, I think he would have woke up. But who knows? Who knows?

You know, like, when you've been trashed. And I'm not saying he was. I'm just saying if he was, that could be the reason why he didn't wake up in that initial fight. But we have to remember that she was not first out of all of them. We know for a fact, I think for a fact, that he went upstairs first and killed Kaling and Maddie, left his knife and then came down. And then that's when he got Zana because she was awake. And maybe Ethan was passed out. But that's, I guess, yeah, I mean, that's even more to say this is one, two, three, three.

four opportunities to hear what's going on. During this, from what they say, 4 o'clock, 407 to 420-something time frame, you've got four people murdered before he leaves. And this is to the left of you and above you that these murders happened. Honestly, her room was to the right.

Maddie's was on top of her room. Zana was to the left of her. Yeah, so I guess the question is, and look, we're not accusing anybody at anything at all. I don't know. It's just we don't understand. And a lot of people's questions are. Like, why didn't she call 911? Especially when she saw a masked man.

I get when you're frozen, because I've been like that. Like, I've been so scared. I couldn't get the key in the key to turn the lock to get in. Like, I just froze because I was so scared. I get that. But after your initial freezing, I would not. Especially if you're spared. Right.

And I'm freaking out. And I'm like, oh, my God, what just? happened. I'm not going to bed and passing out. I'm calling 911 right away. And believe me, I would call 911. Well, the fact that I guess, I guess the big thing is the fact that she was able to describe someone. Yes. So it's not like she was so drunk or on drugs or anything. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. But she was able to at least describe this person that came towards her in the hallway. I think it kind of says. No, in front of her door. Yeah, but I know. But he was coming towards her down the hall or whatever. He exited

the sliding glass door she saw. Right. So he turned around and went out the back. Yeah. So it's just interesting. And I don't understand why number one, this is my question, right? And listen, I can imagine

like what as a freshman college student that would witness something like this could possibly ever imagine what they're going through. But you know, but I But, you know, I don't also understand, I guess, like, why the 911 would not have been called at 4 o'clock when you think potentially, you might think potentially, like, you got a mass man coming down the hall. You've heard, you, if it was me, I guess, I just feel like you would have heard some crazy commotion, screaming, especially with Zana awake and all this.

And then, you know, then you have the dog upstairs, which is Murphy would have been barking. which is on a security camera footage across the road or somewhere around there which heard the dog barking. So imagine how loud the dog was in the house. It's just, to me, it's strange.

It's a weird, and I'm not saying, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. It is just, I think that's why a lot of people are asking questions. That's why a lot of people are in shock because we just don't understand. Well, people are in shock. when they first said it was Brian BK.

No one would have guessed in a million years. Nobody was pointing fingers at him. No, but listen. No one even knew who he was. We've said on this podcast that we've said it on numerous episodes. I said it. You said what? Well, we both said it.

No, I'm saying we've said on this podcast that it was probably no one that knew them. Right. And it sounded like something the serial killer would do, someone that wanted some kind of weird factuation. And you can go back and listen to our episodes. We even had one episode that talked about, is this a serial killer? Is this someone that is not even connected to this?

And look, it's almost somewhat more sadistic than we thought because this guy's a PhD student in criminal, criminality, criminal justice. This is a guy that studies this shit. This is, and listen, we're going to talk briefly before we go. We have to talk about, do you think he's killed before? Because I don't think this was his first time. if he is the murderer, okay, if he is the murderer, I don't think he has killed,

or sorry, I do think he has killed before. I don't think this was his first murder. Right. Because most times when you're a murderer in this extent, you don't start with just murdering four people. No. Right? You start small.

Usually if you're a serial killer, you start with animals. There you go. And there was the animal that was skin. Yeah. We talked about that, and we keep bringing that up about the little puppy, and you can tell them about it real quick. I'm sure people know about it. If you've listened to our podcasts before, yeah, the little puppy that was about, I don't know how many miles it was, like four or five or something, whatever.

And it was an older couple, let their dog out to pee every night. And then one night they let their dog out to pee, and they didn't come back. And then they had neighbors go look for him, and then they found him skinned. The only fur that was still left on him with his head and his feet. And he was even filleted in his meat. On one side. And this was a... Filet like a fish.

Knife. Yeah. So was this the first, I guess, and listen, someone like if Brian is the murder, right? If he is proven to be the murder, which all evidence is really pointing towards him. But if he is the murderer

and someone that has this mindset of, he wants to do the crazy shit that he learns about in college, right? He wants to do and get in and be as deep in the... mind of killers and criminals, that's got to be part of it, especially to be a serial killer. Like, oh, I've got to do some crazy shit like this. I want to give a hint that I'm going to do this.

And if they don't catch on to this hint, I want them once this happens to think back to this and be like, damn, does he do that? That's what serial killers are people that want you to know their serial killers do. But he didn't want to get caught, I don't think. No, I don't. Well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

But we also have to bring up the other murderers that have happened in that area around the northeast area of... Northwest. Yeah, I guess, was it Northwest? Well, I'm just talking about Oregon and the other places where people... Sorry, guys, I'm not good with. I'm challenged. Whatever. We have to mention the people that were stabbed in the same manner, 19 times.

One, a couple. The man died. The woman actually survived and said he was wearing a black. mask. Yeah, there was one in Washington, I think. Yeah. I think there was one in Oregon as well. Yeah, Oregon was the ones. And they were also around similar dates. Yes. By the way. And he was born on the 12th. Yeah, okay. Was it November 12th? Yeah, 13th is when it happened 12th, 13th. But all these number things signify something. But listen, what date was Brian Coburger born is what I'm asking? On November. No. Was it November? No, I can't remember. I'm sorry. I'm not going to speculate. Okay, okay. I was just curious. I thought it was the 12th of November, but I might be wrong.

That's all good. Maybe it was October 12th? I don't know. So I guess we have to, so he was born, he was born November 21st, 1990. Oh, so I was wrong, 21st. But he was born in November. So he has a thing with November. I don't know, for whatever reason he wanted to do this in November. And a lot of these other similar type crimes were around, or in November.

Yeah, November 13. 12th, 13th, and all the numbers are weird. Like with the houses, all the numbers correlate together somehow. I don't know. They have to look at other murders that were done in the same stances, what he did or he allegedly did here. Yeah, the question is, I guess that I take from this is, I guess, or a lot of people are asking is, why didn't the roommate that saw him heard all this stuff not calling that one? I mean, you know, I don't know. The number two question is, why didn't he kill her?

Yeah. Because, you know, if you have something that, you know, you're doing to get away with or whatever, why are you going to come in the house and kill four people? You're going to go work on this floor, work on that floor, you're going to see this other person and you're not going to kill them. I don't know why. Why would you not do that? And if you want to go into speculation, you know, there's a lot of people that feel like he was on social media,

Not on Reddit, Facebook, all kinds of places. But especially Reddit was some really crazy stuff because when people are asking, why did he let the other two survive? And this person that they think is him said, well, maybe he only wanted to kill four. Maybe that's all he wanted. He was good with Ford. But it was just really, it's, I'm not even going to say the names on this podcast, but there's really crazy stuff with these people that assume this is him.

I don't know. Yeah. Well, I mean, and you never know. I'm sure that he's probably done that. Also, something else I want to mention, too, is that FBI, along there, when I guess his father came to Washington to drive back to Pennsylvania for the holidays. And so during this trip back, the police pulled him over, the FBI got law enforcement to pull him over twice.

Was it both times in Indiana or was it? Yeah, it was like within an hour. Yeah, he got him over. Yeah, he got him over twice. What they were looking for was visible signs of injury on his arms or hands or any of that. Her face, yeah. And so FBI knew, they knew when he was traveling over there, they knew. And the reason I say, like, a lot of people were like, why didn't they arrest him before he ever left?

Because trust me, they had his phone. They were tracking him. They knew everything. Right. And by the way. And they're building evidence. Yeah. If that tells you anything about how tracked and traced we are in this world, you ain't getting away with much anymore.

Right. I'm telling you to the point that they were getting trashed out of their neighbor's house to get his DNA. Yeah. And the reality is, is that his pattern, you know, he thought, for whatever reason, he was smart and turned his phone off. And that's what the affidavit later went on to say that he would turn his phone off when he would go, especially on the day of the murder. Yeah, that's the only time he turned his phone off was the day of. the murder the time it happened. Yeah, for about five hours or something. Well, it was like two hours. Yeah. And so he would turn his phone off during there.

And... But all the other times when he came to visit Idaho, he did not turn his phone off, which is, you know, I think that's kind of dumb in his part. Which is how they traced him and tracked him and basically said that he was stalking. And it was also interesting that he applied for a police internship with the police department. So, you know, it's just... is not surprising. I mean, it's not surprising because I don't know if you guys have ever heard, and listen, I'm not, I'm not saying cops are like this at all, I promise. But what I am saying

is, have you ever heard of who the biggest arsonists are, the ones that start fires? It's usually firemen. And it's because it's like they love fire so much that they will sometimes go start it. And if you look at many murder mysteries and many murder instances, there are a lot of law enforcement officers that do try to commit the perfect murder because they feel like they are good enough to do it. And regardless of whether you're a fireman or a police officer or whatever profession you are, there are still sick people in all professions. And some people get through the ropes and they just snap one day. I mean, oftentimes people that do crazy shit like this don't have records. They are clean and flawless. And so it's so hard and everyone wants to talk about guns and they want

to talk about mental health. But sometimes those things are not indicators at all. all leading up to anything. You would have had to have said, Brian Koberger, the fact that he studied criminal justice and wanted to be a doctor and a PhD would have been a sign. But that's not a sign. That is a sign of success and a sign of wanting to capture criminals. But this was literally, if we could have read his mind, this was the sign that he wanted to be a serial killer. He didn't want to help people. He did not want to be someone good in society. He used all of this. This was the biggest sign of the world. in plain day, but it was what we all considered to be good.

Right. And not only that, but he even surveyed people in jail that had committed murders before to ask them detailed questions about how they felt what they were thinking before the murder, during the murder, after the murder. Just crazy stuff. Because I think it's not because it was a foreign research paper. I think he got off on that. Yeah. I mean, he probably did. But I don't know There's a lot of questions in this You guys let us know Go follow us on Twitter

Send us a message Tweet us whatever Let us know what you think about this I mean you know Obviously like I said There's a lot of weird stuff in this And we're also not saying That we know how someone

Would handle that As Dylan or the other roommate or anybody We don't know No I know what she's talking about When she froze Because I've been there and I've done that. Yeah.

Like when I've been so scared, I had my keys in my hand and it was shaking so hard. I could not even get the key into the hole to get into the house. Yeah. And I was just like frantic and frozen. I couldn't move.

Yeah. And I get that. And oftentimes, once you get past that panic and that frozen state... Then you're kind of come back to reality and say, what the hell just happened?

Yeah, and you make a decision if you have to, right? Right. And I guess that's the point is like, why was this not done until 12? And, you know, listen, there is probably, I mean, I know there's speculation out there, and I don't know what the families are thinking or feeling or sane, but could any of these victims have been saved?

We don't know. Yeah, and I know Kaylee's parents were sticking up for Dylan. No, I think in the very beginning. Yeah. And listen, I'm not saying that she's not, I don't know. I'm not saying she's in the wrong because, look, she is a freshman in college, and we don't know. She's a baby. Yeah, we don't know if she was drunk.

We don't know if she was on whatever. We don't know any of that. We don't know that she saw this. I thought it was some crazy. We don't know. We just don't know. But there is a lot of questions, and it just sucks.

These four people are gone and at the hands of this piece of shit. Right. And I'm glad that at least two. If he is the one that did it. Yeah, and I'm glad that two people were spared in this, at least. You know, we could have had six murderers on our hand. Yeah. And that, you know, I'm just saying any life is.

precious. Yeah. But guys, that's going to do it for this one. Listen, we're going to continue to cover this.

Go follow us on Twitter. We're going to have some Twitter spaces and we're going to have panels and we're going to talk about all this. And we're going to cover this. Any information

or new information that comes out, trial, whatever. We'll keep covering this. But guys, we're praying for the families once again. And we're just happy

that they found someone and hopefully they can prove this case. And this is the only person involved. And, And we're just going to keep praying for the family. So until next time, we love you guys.

Yes, we love you guys. And peace out. Peace out. We're working so we could. Rivers going to cry when you're gone. It's like time as a wave. Rivers going to cry when you're gone, gone, gone, gone. River's going to cry when you're going, gone, gone, go and gone.

River's going to cry when you're going, gone, gone. God, God, Rivers going to cry when you are. Rivers going to cry when you're over. Rivers going to cry when you're going. I was hoping you would stay, but I've always known you would go find your own way.

When we climbed up in those streets, 12 years old, feel the wind, and watched the river run, and the sun would always shine. When we sat there, you and I, The river's gonna cry when you're gone gone

You want to leave this place where we grew up this old town Just leave it all behind The river's gonna cry when you're going to