Investigate Earth Conspiracy Podcast - Idaho Student Murders Podcasts | Bryan Kohberger Death Penalty Trial | True Crime

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

The Bryan Kohberger defense is claiming the prosecution is not providing all the evidence they have so that they can prepare to defend their client. The prosecution is now seeking the death penalty for the murders of Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Madison Mogen, 21; XanaKernodle, 20; and Kernodle's boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, 20, were each stabbed multiple times in the early morning hours of November 13 at the off-campus house in the small college town of Moscow.Many worry that the prosecution may not actually have evidence that the mainstream media portrays they have against Bryan Kohberger. All of this and more on this episode of Idaho Student Murders Podcasts | Bryan Kohberger Death Penalty Trial | True Crime

It's just for a minute. I'd fall asleep and night to and out of ideas. I don't know what the time's of each of you and it's shiver. Hello, Anna, welcome to Investigate Earth Podcast. I'm your host, Chad, alongside my beautiful wife, Sherry. Say hello, Sherry. Hey, guys. What's up?

Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. It is June to 28, 2023, 821 p.m. here on the east coast of the United States. and we are coming at you with a new episode in relation to the Idaho student murders and in particular the Brian Coburger trial and some of the proceedings and some of the evidence and everything we have kind of learned leading up to this potential court case that may be happening in October, I believe, of this year. Now, we do know that the prosecution is in fact going for the death penalty in this case.

Idaho is definitely a big death penalty state. not only are they a death penalty state, but they also have the way of execution of a firing squad. So he could actually be put to death by a firing squad in Idaho. But the question is, if convicted, but the question is, does the prosecution have enough evidence to convict Brian Koberger of quadruple homicide of all of the victims of the Idaho studio murders?

And better yet, we have to understand a couple things. Number one, it's harder to convict on death penalties because you never know who you're going to get in a jury. You don't know what their deep down, I guess, belief is of the death penalty. And even if they say, because I'm assuming, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm assuming that's probably going to be a question in the jury selection as far as what their opinion or belief is on the death penalty. But it is just a whole other step forward when it comes to making a decision on someone's actual life. you are, it is in your hands as a juror to say that this person is going to die and you are the one that is saying this person is about to die for what he allegedly did. And it is a whole new, it's a whole new area that you're in as a juror that you would never experience in any other case or any other thing like that. And that is why oftentimes so many people are like, why did they not seek the death penalty in this?

And it's because the prosecution knows it is a lot harder to. actually convict on death penalty. Right. But I also think the reason why they're going after their death penalty is because all the families are in agreement that that's what they like to see happen is a death penalty verdict. No, I agree 100%. But guys, welcome to the show. Now, we obviously covered extensively the Idaho student murders.

You guys can go listen to our other episodes on those. We covered it for probably four or five episodes during the time. This is when no one knew who the actual murderer was. No one knew it was Brian Coburger. No one knew, allegedly Brian Coburger anyway. And I got to be honest, when they first made the arrest, all this stuff first started coming out, it was a relief. It was a relief to the nation. It was a relief to people of Moscow out of hell.

It was a relief to people in Washington State, which is where Brian Coburger resided. And that is always your first initial reaction is, oh, thank God they got him. Thank God they got the guy that did this. Right. But did they? That is the question. Did they? And we're going to know, we're going to find out as the trial starts and begins and as the evidence is presented.

But there's already things that are coming out about this trial or even the proceedings leading up to the trial that seems suspect. It also seems not good for the prosecution as far as things they are doing right now that could potentially lead to an automatic appeal, an automatic reversal of a of an actual guilty verdict or whatever the case may be, there's a lot of things. We're going to cover all of that. But for those of you that do not know what we're talking about, which I got to say, actually, I talk

to some people, family members, whatever, and I'll say Idaho student murders. You know the one where four college students got murdered. You'd be surprised how many people don't know. Yes. Have no idea. Even though people all over the world are following this, there's a lot of people that are not following this and have no

clue of what you're talking about. So you're exactly right. Yeah, so I will give you a brief rundown. So the Idaho college student killings, here's just a brief summary, right? It was a quadruple homicide and it was in a college community in Moscow, Idaho. And this was weeks of speculation and thousands of tips before cultivating an arrest and where they actually found potentially who did this or who committed the crime. But this happened in mid-November and it was four college students. Actually, it was more than four, but four college students were killed, and they lived in an off-campus residence. And this was a very small community in Moscow, Idaho, and investigators grappled with what the town's

police chief would later describe as a very complex case. Now, there was no suspect that was immediately named in the deaths of the housemates Madison Mogan, Kaley Gonzalez, Zana Kurnodal, and Kurnodal's boyfriend, Ethan Chapin. Nor was a murder weapon, believed to be a large fixed blade knife found. There was none of that found. Now, but the intense scrutiny on the unsolved slay sparked thousands of tips to the FBI, then nearly seven weeks later,

with the community on edge and speculation swirling who could commit such a heinous crime, police announced an arrest in Pennsylvania of a doctoral student in criminal justice. Quote, this is not the end of this investigation. Latow County Prosecutant Attorney Bill Thompson said at a news conference announcing the arrest in late December,

quote, in fact, this is a new beginning. So November 12th, starting around 9 p.m. Carnotle and Chapin are seen at a party at Chapin's fraternity, Sigma Chai, a short walk from the King Road apartment house where the roommates lived, according to investigators. That night, Gonzávez uploads pictures to her Instagram account featuring photos of friends with a caption, one lucky girl to be surrounded by these people every day. Around 10 p.m., Gonzavees and Mogan go to a sports ball in Moscow. November 13th, about 1.30 a.m. Gonsavees and Mogan are seen ordering from a nearby food truck.

There was this video went all over the internet. It showed these two actually at the food truck. There was video. This is something that the food truck always does. They have a video of where, you know, all the college students order their food, usually late at night or they get out for a bar, whatever. We've all done that. Right. And during this time is when a lot of people were pointing fingers at Jakes and Jax at this time because of the food truck videos. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, and look, when you look at videos like this with two college students that were brutally murdered, and then you start looking at people in the background, you're like, okay, this looks weird.

You know, the two college students walk away, and then this guy walks the opposite direction. Like, he's going to a car or whatever. There was so much stuff put on various people throughout this investigation. And, you know, that sadly and unfortunately in social media happens today. But anyways, investigators say Kernodle and Chapin returned to their three-level house on King. We're at about 145 a.m. where Gunsavis and Mogan take a car ride home, arriving about 156 a.m. The two other housemates who had gone out that night had arrived home before the others at about 1 a.m.

And 11.58 a.m. a. a. a.m. a. a. a.m. a. a.m. a. 11.5.5.A.m.m. Police alert the public about a death in a news release. And while they say no one is in custody, they do not believe there is an ongoing community risk based on information gathered during the preliminary investigation. Now, this was something that was massive during this case. You have a quadruple homicide, a stabbing, a brutal, heinous crime to where there are four, three girls, one guy brutally murdered in their home. With some that had defense wounds. Yeah, defense wounds. Wins, yeah.

And so you have this, and yet, you know, police come out and say, you know, there's no threat to community. There's no threat to community. And then slowly they start walking this back, which no one understood why a law enforcement agency would start saying this. You know, my, and we're not going to get all into details of what actually happened and just get into all these theories. But, you know, one of the things I always thought was, is like, I really hope that the college and university around there was not so gun ho. on making sure their students stayed in class that they pressured police or law enforcement to not make a big scene

and not scare everyone out of town. Because the reality is, there was someone in large. There was someone that they had no idea who this was, and they brutally stabbed four college students. And then so the fact that you walk this off during this time and say, there's really no threat to community.

We're all fine. Don't worry about it. We think the house was targeted or the victims inside were targeted. But how would they know that within a day? You wouldn't. But that's the thing. I mean, it was obviously, to me, it was downplaying and it was also very dangerous.

If whoever the actual assailant is, if it was Brian Coatberger, right, if he wanted to commit other heinous crimes, it would have been so much easier for him because the police would have helped him. They would have said, oh, no worry, go about your daily life, do whatever you do, unsuspecting. And then it would have just made it easier for him. So that was one thing I had an issue with from the very. beginning. Especially at being college students. They're younger people. You know, their minds are not completely mature ages 18 to 21 if you really think about it. Yeah. You know, they don't make a lot of smart decisions sometimes. And as a parent, I would want my kid home, which they did give them those opportunities to go home and finish out the semester at home. Now, in November 17th,

the autopsy results show that four victims were likely attacked with a large knife and died somewhere between 2 a.m. from multiple stab wounds, Lataa County coroner, Kathy Mabit says. Now, actually, in some of the recent documents, they say they believe they died around 4 a.m. And just to let you guys know, police also say the victims were likely asleep when they were slain, although that's not necessarily true

because there were defense wounds, as Sherry said. Now, some of them had defensive wounds, but there was also no sign of sexual assault, they said. Meanwhile, detective seized the contents of three dumpsters named a home to search for positive. evidence and they contact local businesses to determine if a knife had recently been purchased. Now, November 30th, there was a vigil held at the University of Idaho in honor of the victims with family members and attendance. December 1st, Moscow police reaffirmed the quadruple homicide was part of a targeted attack after authorities appeared to suggest the opposite.

And it said, we remain consistent in our belief that this was indeed a targeted attack, but have not concluded if the target was the residence or its documents, which also still made zero sense. December 2nd, the two housemates, Bethany Funk and Dylan Mortison, released letters saying they're struggling to accept why the lives of four beautiful people were taken so brutally. Now, in this regard, at the very least, one of the other housemates

has been under a lot of scrutiny because of how potentially maybe they handled the situation, but also we have to keep in mind. We don't understand or know what, well, I do, but what I'm saying is a lot of people say that they don't know what they would do if they saw all these people brutally murdered and heard people screaming and crying. Yes. Now, I'm not saying whatever.

If you want to go back and listen to all the details of the night and all that stuff, go back in the room. Right. But there is huge speculation that part of the reasons police were not called that night is because of drugs involved in this situation and they didn't want to get in trouble. The other speculation is maybe they passed out and didn't understand what was going on. We don't know. These are college students. We don't know. Yeah, you're right.

Yeah, college students, you have no idea. And we're not even necessarily saying that any of the victims who are drug out of, none of that. We don't know. I mean, look, if you're a college student, you know, I mean, we, whatever, who knows? There's stuff that college students do. And we shouldn't judge people on that. We don't know at all if any of the students were actually doing drugs or not have no idea, nor does it matter at all because of the fact, you know, this guy came in middle of the night. And, you know, he was pretty, I guess, selective in understanding that, you know, they had probably been in a bar all night.

They were drunk. They were whatever. It's a perfect opportunity for him to come in. Him or her, I guess, I should say, because we don't 100% know that it was Brian Koeburger. But either way, it was a perfect opportunity for whoever that did this to go in at 4 a.m. after this whole group had been drinking for, you know, a good amount of time. And it could be a perfect opportunity. He didn't know if, you know, the girls had brought dates home.

I mean, he didn't know how many people were actually in the house unless he was stalking it and staking it out. We don't know. But it's just very crazy to know that there was two people that were not unalived during this whole situation that were actually in the house at the time of the murders. Yeah, you're right. Now, so anyways, not to, I guess, I don't want to say bore you with the details, but Brian Coburger was later arrested. He was pulled over multiple times, actually on his way back with his father to Pennsylvania, and this was a short time after the murders.

He was pulled over apparently because law enforcement, FBI and so on, had actually requested that local police and whoever actually do pull him over to look at his hands and other parts of his body to see if there were any visible wounds, defense wounds, anything they could find out. They wanted to see if potentially... This is what law enforcement is at least saying. right. And this is why they did it. So anyways, he has since been arrested. He has made several appearances. He, at one point in time when he went to plead and not guilty, he didn't really plead.

He was silent. He was silent during the hearing. Which is his right. Which is his right. Although if you are silent, I guess the court automatically assumes that you are pleading not guilty. So that is how the judge said this, or that's how he, I guess, registered it. you are pleading not guilty. So let's go in a little bit to where this trial may go and what some of the things that both prosecution and defense may actually be facing in this, right? So Brian Coburger hearing the Idaho murder suspect

past arrest has actually recently been revealed. And the defense right now essentially is fighting for his life. They are fighting for Brian Coburg's life. They're going to do whatever they can to try to spare him the death penalty. But better yet, they want to try to get this just completely. they want to acquit Brian Cooper of this. And they want to make sure that the people, the jury, and everyone else knows that they believe prosecution does not have the evidence.

They have very circumstantial evidence. There's a lot of question marks, obviously, in this entire case. And by the way, guys, before you or anyone says anything, I want, like, I'm not going to say I want it to be Brian Coburger. I want it to be the right person. Right. And hopefully, prosecution can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. out that Brian Koeberger is the murder suspect in these murders because obviously the family, I can't imagine what they have been suffering and going through.

Obviously, probably they had like a 1% relief when someone was actually arrested for this, although some of the family members have called in it. Well, yeah, that, but they've called in the question. They've kind of spoken out against, I guess, how law enforcement or what law enforcement that has been telling them or not been telling them. You know, when you are a victim or a family member of a victim of such a heinous and violent brutal murder, this is obviously something that you're going to want all the information possible. And this is something that, you know, in particular, Steve Gunsavis has been very vocal on throughout this process.

You know, at times he had said, you know, do we trust law enforcement? Do we not? That's kind of how it appeared on the... Right. He even hired an attorney to help him out with this because he felt like they were not completely doing their jobs at the time and wanted everything out because he, of course, wants somebody to be accountable for his daughter's death and his kind of stepdaughter, which is Maddie, which, you know, they grew up together. But getting back to Brian's first arrest, that happened in

2018 when he was 19 years old. And what happened with this arrest was just very... Oh, 2014, actually. Oh, I'm sorry, 2014. But he was 19 years old. But what was really interesting is this whole arrest thing. What happened. was his dad called and made a report that Brian had stole his sister's iPhone. And at the time, his dad suspected or pretty much knew that he was addicted to drugs naming heroin and that he had stole his sister's phone to sell it and get drugs. So at this point, Dad decided to make a report, and that was the first time he ever was arrested. He never served any kind of jail time or anything like that. But just thinking about dad calling in to have his own son arrested, some people are saying,

well, is he going to turn his back on him now? Or was he trying to be a good dad and give him tough love and say, hey, dude, you know, I am turning you in because I know you're on drugs and you're trying to do things that are against the law to support your habit. And I'm not going to let you do this. You know, either way, I think his dad is very supportive of him of whatever actions happens. I don't think his dad is going to turn away from him. I think his parent, you know, like any other parent, they're going to stand by their child, even if they are guilty or, you know, not guilty or anything. They're still going to stand by their child.

But it was just really interesting that the dad called to have him arrested. And then when they went about this grand jury, which they were not even going to do in May, they called Brian's parents to the grand jury. And I just found that really interesting. was it because of the arrest back in 2014? Well, we don't know. I mean, we don't know those details, but what I can, you know,

just hearing kind of your explanation as far as the dad calling on Brian, you know, over a cell phone, by the way. You know, a cell phone, and I believe it actually got charged or... Yeah, he had no jail time. It was robbery, right? So, you know, when you're charged with us

and your own father calls in you, this almost sounds like a particular situation to where Brian Koberger potentially could have had other very obvious issues growing up, right? And this potentially was a opportunity for the parents, the dad, to say, enough is enough. We're going to try to teach this guy a lesson because we feel like he has major issues or there's something going on. And we want to use this final example of like, look, dude, you got to change your ship. We're done with this because it does take a lot for a parent to call. call the police on their own son and charge the police. And in a way, Brian kind of threatened his

dad and said, don't you do it? Like he had already threatened his dad about this arrest in particular. So, yeah. And so then too, I've thought about this as well. You know, if, if Ryan Koeberger did this, you know, could this be the moment that his dad realized potentially that, I mean, you know, many people have asked a question, And did his dad even suspect or think potentially after knowing that there were four students in Moscow, Idaho that was murdered? Did that ever cross his dad's mind as he was driving with his son across country? Potentially. I mean, it very well could have crossed his mind. But also, you got to understand, like, back to your point, as a parent and a child, even if a parent or sorry, even if a child blatantly does wrong in front of you, and especially if someone else calls that out, you're going to deny.

it, even though you know in your heart that they did it, right? And I'm not saying we know that his dad knows he did it. Or maybe try not to believe that your child would do this. But I think in this situation, since his dad has already caught him and pretty much had him arrested the first time, I think his dad would know this, but he wouldn't look the other way, but he would still not turn his back on him. Yeah. Yeah, you're probably right.

because, you know, he probably knows if, you know, if for some reason he, his son did do this, well, this is his life, obviously. Right. I mean, this is his life. This is their kid's life that's gone. And although he's going to look at these other students that were murdered potentially by Brian Koeberger, allegedly by Brian Koeberger, is still your son. Right. And it goes to the same fact that he drove all the way to Washington to make this cross-crunchy,

sorry, country drive to Pennsylvania. and then in the middle of the night here is Brian with gloves on going through his own trash I'm just wondering did his parents ever see him do this did they suspect him you know what was going on through their minds at that time

yeah this reminds me of the Gabby Petito case right I mean you know with Brian with Brian Laundrie is that's name Brian's case and his his mom that you know his mom and dad apparently allegedly you know kind of

knew about potentially some of this. They had a letter, a burn after reading letter. This is something, another example of parents and maybe sometimes how far they will go when their kid is, you know, either going to kill themselves, they realize or understand, you know, that, hey, maybe my kid did actually kill this girl. I mean, it's weird because you, parents love sometimes is overly, sometimes, I guess, what it should be sometimes. I mean, especially in certain cases.

like this. I mean, Gabby Petito case, for example, I don't know all the details of that. All I know is kind of reminds me a little bit of this. Not sure that they knew anything, but it just, it would be hard for me to believe that this guy goes home and, you know, they found gloves and all this stuff at his Pennsylvania home. And yet the parents were completely clueless of all the stuff that was going on. Now, we don't 100% still know what the prosecution actually has against Brian Cooper. We know some of it, but this is what's been going on lately. Okay, so Brian Koeberger's attorney has basically been sparring with Idaho prosecutors over evidence. And she said, this is not a fission expedition.

This is not what this should be. Brian Kureberger's whole legal team and Idaho prosecutors, they have been in a battle in court on Tuesday over whether his defense should be privy to certain documents, including FBI records related to the brutal murders of the students. Now, Brian Kerberger came in wearing a black suit and tie. He's obviously accused of the murders, which, you know, absolutely. And I go back to this. This was a massive case that came over the nation.

And I often sometimes wonder, too, there are many instances of things that happen where brutal murders happen. I just heard about one in New York the other day, three elderly people that got brutally murdered by some serial killer. There's some serial killer going around killing homeless people in Portland. You know, even the case of, which got a little bit of attention, but even the case of the father that just killed his kids and his, well, wounded his wife, right? He got a little bit of attention, but it makes you wonder, like, why did the Idaho thing get massive nationwide and worldwide attention? I mean, I'm just pointing this out.

It's just strange because, believe it or not, there are very brutal murders that happen like this all the time. A lot of people have asked us that. A lot of people have actually sent us emails about like, why did this case get such attention and others do not? And a lot of this happens very often in the country. Could have been the college students could have been, whatever. And by the way, all of them deserve the attention. All of these brutal things do.

But I just think the fact that they were so young and they were all beautiful children, they had their whole futures in front of them that it just stuck out. You know, and also there was another case that was just solved in Idaho. The Valo Daybell stuff just got solved. So, you know, Idaho is a place, like, they don't mess around with that stuff at all. No, for sure. Which is, you know, Steve Gonzalez himself said he moved to Idaho because of the way. The death penalty. Yeah, because of the death penalty and because of the way that.

They prosecute. Yeah, they prosecute criminals, sorry. Now, during the proceedings this Tuesday, his lead defense journey, Brian Koeberger's lead defense attorney and Taylor. She maintained her effort to obtain further case records for her client was not efficient expedition to see what the evidence the prosecution have against her client. We've asked for several things that we still need, Taylor told the court. And Taylor is seeking discovery materials, including records related to certain police officers training and cell phone investigations, including those that led police to seek out the

Hyundai, like the one driven by Coburger. The district court judge, John C. Judge, his last name was Judge, which is kind of crazy. ultimately ordered prosecutors to hand over at least one of the requested documents and FBI forensics report by July 14th. Okay, so the Moscow-Idao hearing came just hours after prosecutors revealed that they would seek the death penalty against Koberger who stands charged with stabbing college students, Zana Kronodle, Ethan Chapin, Maddie Mogan, and Gaila Gonzalez. Taylor argued the possibility of the death penalty had created a greater sense of urgency in the case, according to a News Nation report from inside the courtroom.

She said, there is a heightened standard now that the state has announced its intent to seek the death penalty, she said. And there are very relevant pieces of information that we need. And listen. In order to have a fair trial and to defend their client. Yes. Look, this is something that defense and also the prosecution is required to do in most cases. Any evidence that you have or are going to present, in the court, in the trial, the defense has to have access to that.

Now, it's weird because hearing some of these news articles, reading some of these news articles, listening to some of these, you know, YouTube people or whoever, some of these people make it like, well, they don't have to know this. Technically, yes. I mean, technically the defense is privy to any information or any evidence that I believe that the prosecution has that they are going to use in court. and so the fact that, and this is what prosecution does a lot, by the way, everyone, prosecution a lot of times do whatever they can to try to make it as hard as possible

for the defense to potentially defend their client in a case. And especially sometimes when they don't have enough evidence to convict someone on what they want to convict on. Now, as we already talked about before, you know, the family members of all the victims have been pushing. I don't know about every one of them. I know the Gonzávez family definitely has. I think maybe the Mogan.

But regardless, there's been some pressure on the prosecution to go after the death penalty for what it sounds like. And in that case, prosecutors know that, as we said, it's harder to convict on death sentence. And so if you're a prosecution, you want every possible advantage you can possibly have. And that includes disadvantage in the defense, which is absolutely immoral, my opinion. The defense needs all the information and whatever evidence they are going to present in trial for their defendant. Because listen, regardless of what we all believe and are all listening to out there right now, Brian Koberger 100% could be sitting there in jail right now, 100% innocent. He could be.

I mean, we don't know for sure. There's a lot of evidence that is lacking. There's a lot of things, at least from what we've heard so far. The only real evidence they have is the nice sheet. Right. The touch evidence. The DNA. Yeah.

that's the only real evidence we have, which a lot of people were saying, that's a smoking gun. You cannot get past that. But in that defense, we have to go with other trials that have just ended in Idaho. They did not give up the evidence

until like 10 hours prior to the actual trial to the defense. They're going to, like you said, they're going to try to hold on to this and they're going to say, oh, we're still processing all this. This is why, you know, in the court hearing Tuesday, you know, his defense attorney, basically she's like, we just need three things.

Three things and we need a date. I don't know if they're trying to hide it from us or they're just not giving it to us. And then the prosecution is like, we're overwhelmed. You don't realize how much evidence we actually have. You know, we have tens of thousands of, you know, evidence. And it's hard to process all of that. No. And by the way, guys, I'm going to go and let you guys know.

I'm not a lawyer. I'm not an analyst on law and order or law and crime or court. or court TV. I'm not that. Neither of us are that. What we do, by the way, and I won't let you guys know, what our podcast is about. This is what we've done for five years is we point out corruption. We do it in the justice system. We do it in every aspect of not just the United States, not just politics, not just law and order, you know, international, you name it. We talk about wars. We talk about all this stuff. And we interview people. We talk about all of these things. And one of the things that the justice system has, right?

And this is something that politically, if you want to talk politically for two seconds, very, very middle ground politically. You have conservatives, which Democrats or liberals hate. You have the other side of it, which is liberals that hate conservatives and vice versa. But the reality is that if both sides could just open their eyes for two seconds on political standpoints, they would realize how corrupt and how even though the United States justice system supposedly is one of the best in the world, it is still very flawed and it is still very corrupt. Now, there's one thing that all prosecutors want to do when they walk in a courtroom, regardless, and I'm not saying all, but many. They want to win. There's one thing the defense wants to do when they walk in a courtroom.

They want to win. Now, some people, there's been so many people that said, I can't believe you could defend someone. Brian Coburger that that brutally murdered all of these these four college students. Well, okay. But what if Brian Coburger is not the person that did this? Why are people not coming out against the prosecution saying, I cannot believe you could potentially, with that little bit of evidence, be trying to seek the death penalty for Brian Coburger, and you could actually put an innocent person to death, right?

It is on both sides. in regards of whatever anyone wants to think, you have to, you have to look at this from a juror's standpoint. And a juror's standpoint is, you know, how much evidence do you have? And am I willing to say guilty or innocent based on what you were telling me? Based on the evidence you provide to me. Yes. Yeah. And so, you know, it's on both sides.

I mean, yes, there are some things that are so obvious. You happen on video, you have all this stuff. And I'm not saying there's not evidence in the Brian Kerber case. I've according to the affidavits and some of the other stuff. You know, they potentially have a lot of evidence with cell phones and all this stuff. And if that's the case and it's presented in court like it should be, he should be found guilty. No problem. Yeah, but even in the probable cause affidavits, the defense still has not received any of that information.

And in order to give him a fair trial, I feel like they need to give the defense whatever they need. And that's why Ann Taylor went to court Tuesday and asked for three things. and I just want to simply go over them. The first thing that she asked for was just three law enforcement officers. She wanted to know the training or the background of these law enforcement that were dealing with interviews or were there during the thing. She wasn't asking for everyone. She was asking for three specific.

Two were state Idaho police. Wait, wait. Okay. Yeah. So that's the first. That's the first thing she was asking for. So let's remember to go back to the other two. No, yeah.

Yeah, we will. I want to break this down. Yeah. I want to break this down because I was in law enforcement. I've done law enforcement. My brother's in law enforcement. You know, I know a lot of law enforcement, obviously. Now, what I will tell you guys is there's a reason why Ann Taylor is asking for this information.

And it's because she's going to use this in the defense. And it's also, by the way, for anyone that followed at all, the Murdo Murder trials, well, although he did get convicted because the smoking gun was pretty obvious in that case, which was a recording on a Snapchat video. from his son Paul that proved that 100% he was there within probably five or 10 minutes of the actual killings. Now, even the Murdoch thing still don't 100% know that he actually is the one to pull the trigger. I think there was a lot that was left out of that case that had to do with drug and the drug trafficking and all that stuff that he was involved in. There's still a lot to be

known about that. Yes, obviously Alec Murdoch lied about a lot of that stuff. But my point is to this, the reason why Ann Taylor is asking this is because in the Murdoch case, right, this was something that Harpoolian and Jim Griffin used extensively was the lack of, you know, processing of evidence, the lack of seeing integrity, all of these things that not only sled, which is South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, but also the local law enforcement, Hampton County, or whatever it is. I can't even remember right now. But it was the lack of processing, how the fire department came in, was walking all over the scene. There were so many things that law enforcement did very bad that really in reality, if you really want a fair trial,

and a, you know, and I think, but I think, keep it in mind, if they did not have the video of Alec being there, which he lied about, right, on the stand, he lied about it or whatever, and then he was, he was, or not, he didn't lie about it on the stand, but he was made to admit it on the stand. There were multiple people who said, yes, that's Alec. They made this the focus of their investigation because they knew they screwed up on a lot of this investigation. That was what tipped the viewpoints and the opinions of the jury with the lack of seeing integrity, the lack of investigative integrity, the lack of, in some cases, evidence, the murder weapon, so many things. Same thing with Ann Taylor.

She's saying, I want to know law enforcement's training, all this stuff, because they're going to use that against them. This happens all the time in America. Right. You have law enforcement, especially in smaller towns. you have law enforcement that when say a quadruple murder happens like this particular case, what happens from the time law enforcement, EMS, fire department, whoever gets on the scene, until the time that say that more experienced investigators, forensics people, that say the FBI or whoever comes in, right?

And that's not always the case of murders, by the way. In high-profile cases, yes, FBI will come on the scene such as this. But how much training do these officers that originally, arrived on scene, including, by the way, what I would be asking is what EMS and what fire department was also on the scene at this point in time, because you have to know what the scene integrity is, because that is going to be the entire way that the prosecution proves their case. It all has to come down to scene integrity. And the reason why Ann Taylor is asking what training these law enforcement have, because,

well, have you ever been trained in forensics? Have you ever been trained in scene integrity? Have you ever been training this? And by the way, even interviewing witnesses like this. Yes. Most law enforcement are not trained in that. I mean, sadly enough, they're not.

And it really comes down to the top-down view. You know, there are some departments that are very strict and very rigid on how they protect scenes and do all this stuff. They have very big policies and protocols of if you are a patrol officer or whoever the case is, scene of a murder. Obviously, there are emergency procedures you do to make sure that life still, you know, if life is able to be saved, that is your number one priority vice versa. But in that process,

you can also completely screw the scene. Right. And that appeared to what Murdoch murders kind of did. It was a complete shit show there. It was a circus at the Murdoch Murdoch. And I believe in some cases this Idaho murders

was as well, because you had a clean crew coming in, not very long after all this, when they didn't even know who the, who the suspect was at this time. So they didn't even know what DNA they were looking for. And they had a cleaning crew in there. And so then once they figured out something, they're like, they had to stop the cleaning crew. Well, what had the cleaning crew done from that point? The defense had to stop the cleaning crew. Yes.

Yes, because you don't know if there's other DNA that could point someone else as the actual suspect. Right. And so it was just strange. more cleaning, I mean, it's weird. And taking property out of the house. To me, in my opinion, if this is a case of this sorts and it's this serious, you don't touch

the crime scene until it's done. Typically not. I mean, you've got to be very careful with it. I mean, if you know, apparently that, you know, all victims are in fact dead, then you have to back out of everything. You got to make sure that, number one, you really need to be thinking about this as

you're entering a home, especially if someone's calling about whatever. Supposedly they called about unconscious person and then so that if you show up and you realize there's blood everywhere and all this stuff you got to back out. Well, no, but

well, no, because at that moment you probably are going to go into emergency mode, which is like, we've got to see if we can save anybody's life. But the reality is during that process, there could be a lot of things that are tampered with. There's a lot of seeing integrity. So what I'm saying is

the defense is going to use all of that. And depending on, conviction rates and whatever, law enforcement agencies across the country really need to have a lot more training in how they approach and, and I guess, deal with scenes, especially murder scenes and crime scenes and all of those scenes. And it's not just murder scenes and crime scenes. This happens on everything. Oh, it does. I was on a jury trial today, and we found a girl not guilty because they did not have enough evidence. That is the main reason.

And it was lack of evidence. And there were some other jurors that thought the girl was guilty, but you cannot convict somebody as guilty if it's not beyond a reasonable doubt. You have to have it beyond a reasonable doubt. And I'm not going to convict somebody if I have any doubts. Absolutely. Yeah, you're right. And that's 100% true.

And that's the way that jurors should be. But part of the problem is, before we get to your number two, part of the problem is, though, is that high-profile cases like this are only, almost in some ways convicted in the media before they ever get to trial. I mean, you know, you sit here as a juror, right? And this was something you did. You just like, I can't really talk about what I'm doing. And you were very good about that, right?

And, but the thing is, there's no one in, I mean, yeah, I did say there are some people that don't know, but you're going to have a very hard time finding a lot of people in a jury poll that don't know about what happened in a murder. And I haven't seen this on the news and all this stuff that have already formed an opinion on the fact that Brian Coburger is guilty. As soon as they say we charge Brian Cooper with the murders of all four of these people, most of the population believes Brian Coburger is the murder. He already is guilty.

And so what it used to be was, right, that you are innocent until proven guilty, but really in reality with media, social media, and everything we have today, that is gone, that is thrown out the window. You are now you are guilty until proven innocent. There is no question. And that is one major thing. That is a huge downfall with social media and media in general. Yes. And communication sharing is you are now guilty until proven innocent. Whereas before all

that, you were innocent to prove and guilty. Jurors came in, had no idea what happened. And they were only judging based on what they see in the courtroom. You're either proven it or you're not. And nowadays, media proves it before anyone else or thinks they are. Yeah. And that's why Judge Judge, and that's his actual name is Judge, was so adamant about the cameras. If the cameras are going to be in the courtroom, you cannot just a fixate on Brian Culper's face. Because there's so many people analyzing every movement. He's not using his eyebrows. He's twitching in his cheek.

He has a tongue thrust. Everyone's analyzing every little movement of this man. And that could be a mistrial because they're analyzing him and not giving him a fair trial. Yeah, there's even people on YouTube, keep in mind. There are actual channels on YouTube, body language expert channels. Right. That, you know, they go through these videos and say, I think he's guilty because this. And so say that that video gets four million views, that's four million people that now believe he's guilty because of some body language expert, quote unquote, on YouTube.

So this is the issue we have with social media and digital information nowadays. You are now guilty until proven innocent, and that's just the way it is. All right, go to your second point. Whatever your second point was. Well, the second point was that the FBI task team had examined all the cell phone information, and they, still have not turned that over, you know, and they use that in the probable cause affidavit. And they've not turned that over to defense. And I think that would be a simple thing using, you know, using that information, why could they

not turn that over? Let me tell you why. Because it's not clear cut. That's why. And you'll me tell you another reason they don't want to turn that over? Because think about this. And by the way, when we did this podcast, we have not even talked about this at all. No, we never do because it misses us up.

does. No, we don't. She'll say something and I'll give my opinion. Or I'll say something she'll give her opinion. That's the way it goes. But let me tell you from a law enforcement law, holy shit, law enforcement perspective or just a perspective of knowing how cell towers work. So the fact the FBI or whoever

is not going to just hand over these records, right? And are you specifically talking about like the cell phone data and all that stuff? Yeah, for his phone in particular. So the reason why this is probably the case is because of of the fact that no matter what they want to try to tell you.

Now, you remember when Koberger was announced as the main suspect, and they said, Brian Koeberger is a suspect, and then as the probable cause affidavit come out, and as the media ran with that stuff, and said, look, we pinned him to this and this time and all this stuff and all this stuff and all this stuff. Yeah. There's a lot of things that you, that cell phone data and towers are not 100% pinpoint accurate. They're not even, sometimes they're not even, 20 miles accurate, right? So keep it in mind that he is from,

Washington State, Washington State, which is not that, yeah, 15, 20 minutes, whatever. But regardless, his cell phone could have been pinging potentially in this area regardless, at this particular time or whatever the case is. But to me, it seems like that they don't want to hand over this data because they don't want more time for the defense to poke holes in this theory. Because they know that this cell phone data is what they are so going on.

because they don't have a lot of other evidence besides, quote-unquote, DNA from a nice sheath, right? Which, by the way, could be the smoking gun. That could be... And it's touch evidence, which means he could have shook somebody else's hand. They could have touched that sheath and they could have got his DNA from somebody else. Yeah. You know, it's not direct DNA evidence. Yeah. And that's what I'm saying, too.

It's like, you know, they have the nice sheath, right? That's their smoking gun, as they want to call it. that's kind of like, I guess, what the Murdoch murder Snapchat video is, right? Although, in my opinion, still the Snapchat video does not 100% prove that Alec Murdoch killed his family. And I still have a hard time believing that. I'm sorry, I have a hard time believing he killed his family. I know he's a liar. I know he's all these things.

I 100% understand that. But I also understand his drug trafficking thing. So even with that said, that was a smoking gun. That is, though, what shifted. and also they, to me, I think they brought up a lot of stuff that had zero, in a lot of ways, Murdoch. I mean, it kind of did, but it didn't. It should not have been admitted in the court as far as a lot of the other stuff. You have to prove how he murdered his wife and son.

Instead, you basically proved how big a piece of shit he was. And that's what got unconvicted, not the fact that he actually killed the, you know, whatever. So the fact that the FBI or whoever does not want to be convicted. want to hand over this cell phone data makes me think that there's a lot of holes in this and the defense are going to be able to because at the time basically in short what they were saying is Brian had visited this residence 12 different times and their specific points were they were able to see where he was before and after the crime but during the crime his phone was turned off. Okay well and that can be very compelling evidence but also you got to

keep in mind that, you know, Brian Koberger could have been partying in Moscow, Idaho. There's a big university there, right? And there was a big football game that weekend. And you also have to understand that even months before that, though, you know, this house is right next to campus. I mean, literally, you can walk across a field to get to campus. So when you say that his phone was pinged at the house, unless I don't know otherwise, and we'll find out in court. But typically, you can't necessarily pinpoint a phone to a road.

It is a cell ping tower. You pinpoint it to a geographical location. That could be anywhere potentially on the campus from the last I remember. So I don't know. I mean, that's very compelling. But I just feel like that, you know, typically when they're not going to hand over evidence, they don't want you to have more time to basically just poke holes all in their theory. Yeah, what you said before.

But in the prosecution's defense, they're saying we are overwhelmed with evidence. It's just not that easy to give up all this evidence. When we've had this tip line and all this stuff come in, we're overwhelmed with, you know, processing everything. Everything's got to be processed, documented. You know, it takes time to do all these things. But, you know, because of course when they go through the probable cause affidavit, they're in their preliminary stages. And they don't really have all the evidence. So, you know, they're building it as they go.

They're building the case constantly. Things are constantly in work and they're finding new things every day. It's not just, oh, this is the evidence and this is what we have. Let's turn it over to you. They're constantly finding new evidence, finding, you know, they're building their case. Yeah. And, you know, to kind of get back to this a little bit, there's a heightened standard now that the state has announced it's intent to seek death penalty, right? As we talked about.

And Taylor asked the judge earlier this month to pause her client's case until she received all the records related to the grand jury proceedings. She said, quote, Mr. Koeberger stood silent at his initial arraignment to preserve his right to conduct the indictment. Taylor wrote in the June 15th motion to stay. So she is saying that her client stood silent to protest the initial indictment, which is something else they are going after, to see if it was a just or, I guess, legit indictment, whether they actually had the evidence to even indict him to begin with, right? Exactly.

And at this time, too, his defense team is. asking for information about the grand jury just to make sure it's legit and it's, you know, not bull crap. Yeah. That they did this in a legal way. And then it keeps my mind going back to why did they call his parents to this grand jury? I have no idea. That is weird.

You know, he also asserted the right to a speedy trial persuading to the United States and Idaho constitutions. Time is of the essence, she added. you know and here's the thing but the prosecution argued Tuesday that Coburger's legal team has everything that the state has right? But that's no they don't know.

And other than the certain FBI forensic records which are still under review according to reports now Coburger you know he's obviously a 28 year old former criminology student was indicted on charges of felony burglary and all the murders but the thing about Coburger is that you know he

from what it seemed to be was very smart when it come to the legal system, right? Oh, absolutely. And at the very least, he's probably going to be helping his client figure out this as well. Or helping his lawyers. Sorry, he had a lawyer, his lawyers. Right.

But also, that was a big question that had arised during this whole thing is, how could you be so sloppy? We'll even DNA and do all this stuff. With the sheet. Yeah. And yet you had all this, you were supposedly this smart criminology student. Right. And he even, he even like co-professored or whatever. you call that, you know, at his university.

And he taught classes. Yeah, and he had a whole questionnaire out there on the internet with criminals of what they think, their thought process, everything. But getting back to the third thing that Ann Taylor was asking for was FBI evidence that they have not received

about the white elantra. Which is I kind of get because I'm just thinking back in my mind when they first posted this white elantra, it came from the gas station videos, right? But in the police probable cause affidavit, they said they have this white

Elantra going past the house and doing a four point turn and turning in, blah, blah, blah, waiting, they have all this on video. Why? And they, in the affidavit, they also call it suspect vehicle one. Yeah. Why didn't they use the photo of the actual car in the same? Instead of, you know, the car that they said did the four-point turn at the actual house instead of the gas station stuff. I don't know.

Well, it is weird because actually when I saw the multiple videos and I kind of compared them, some of you got, and by the way, you guys can weigh in on this. But I don't know. I mean, they had a couple different cars, right? And listen, by the way, I want to make very clear. We're not trying to say that Brian coworker is innocent. No, we're just looking at where the holes could possibly be. Yes. we are looking at this from a standpoint of if we're the defense for Brian Koeberger

or if we're a jury or yeah or the jury where am I going to see the holes in this and you know the car could potentially be another one now we're going to find out all of this I mean it's a very it's a very it is a complex case I mean there's there's no question about that but but the reality is like it seems like as prosecution is trying to withhold evidence from the defense. It seems even more so that potentially they don't have the case that the media wants you to believe they have. And that's something you have to think about.

Yeah. And it's almost like a poker game. Are they double downing with a death penalty to make, you know, is it like a fake face kind of thing? I don't know. Like a poker face or whatever. A poker face, yeah. I don't know. Now, keep it in mind, too, I'm going to bring up a couple things.

Cleaning Company was also spotted the Idaho murder's home as Brian Kuberger appeared in court. a cleaning company is back at the crime scene where the students were killed and a large truck was seen on Tuesday which was June 27th at the home where they were all murdered last November as the process continues to return their personal belongings

to their loved ones. So another cleaning crew was there once again and look the father of the Idaho student murders reacted to this death penalty and we had talked about this earlier but, you know, this is seven months later,

but Lato County Prosecutor Bill Thompson filed a notice of his intent to seek death penalty against the alleged killer, Brian Koberger. And ahead of the pretrial hearing on Tuesday, Mr. Thompson cited five aggravating circumstances that could warrant the maximum sentence of capital punishment. And reacting to developments, Gonsave's father, Steve Gonsabes,

which has been very vocal throughout this whole process, said he felt relief as his family comes one step closer to getting justice. And he says, I'm glad that we're in a situation of strength, and the evidence is there, and we feel that we can. They can go forward with this, he told NBC News. So, and the Gonzobie's family's attorney, Shannon Gray, also weighed in on the filing, noting that the death penalty was reserved for especially heinous crimes,

such as the quadruble stabbing of the Fort University students on November 13th. And it says, quote, if you're not going to pursue the guy for the death penalty on a case like this, who are you going to pursue the death penalty for? Yeah, and we've kind of touched base on that and why it's harder. But let's get back to the evidence and the DNA evidence. You know, in the probable cause affidavit, the way they really got him was from the touch evidence of the sheath. And the way they found him was very interesting because when they put him up in the system,

they had no one. And let me remind you, too, there was two other men's DNA that they came up with inside, and then they found a glove outside the area right at the sidewalk that had another male's DNA. So that's three DNA males that we don't know. And this is like a pejor dish, by the way. Right. Because this is a party house. There's tons of people coming in and out.

At times, these people weren't even at their own home when there was parties going on. So you've got to imagine like all the DNA. But the ones that they were really interested was the three DNA inside the one outside. inside in the glove. To me, the glove was probably an examiner that was sloppy. Explain the glove, though. Well, it was a plastic glove, you know, one of those medical gloves that was right outside the house and actually another detective that wasn't even on the case found the glove a couple days later.

But listen, you just went into the glove outside the house. A lot of people may not know this. Oh, okay. So explain. Okay. So, you know, all the people were, you know, all the investigators were inside, outside. they were looking all through the house and outside the house. There was a wooded area. And there was a ex-detective that rode down to the crime scene just to see it. This was after the police were not there.

Yeah, this is like three or four days later. Okay. And he pulls up to the crime scene and he's at the sidewalk and there's this little pole thing. And people see, I think actually it's where, no, there was also a black jacket located. But what I'm talking about is the glove. It was outside next to a trash can. And it was like a medical examiner glove. Oh, so like a...

Yeah, and it had male DNA on the inside, but they don't know who the male DNA belongs to. To me, it's just sloppy work. So if it was like a... If it was like a latex glove or whatever... Right, right. That could have been medical personnel, it could have been long enforcement, more than likely.

But he said there was snow on it. It had been there for days. You know, no one... found this evidence for some reason. Probably because it was left there by emergency personnel. It could be. I would guess. But it may not be.

But what's interesting is all the DNA was found. When they put it all in the Cota system, there's nobody's name that came up. And that's why they started going with this genealogy stuff. You're talking about the glove? No, I'm talking about all of the DNA now. The DNA inside the house and the glove outside the house. I don't think the glove really has. anything to do with the crime scene, I think mainly inside.

So all the DNA that they found inside, there was no, like, hits on it. So they were, you know, and this is a new thing that they're doing now is they're using genealogy to figure out DNA of unknown DNA. Yeah, we got to talk about that for a second, too. Yeah, so that's the next big evidence. And this is what a big thing of how they even got his true DNA on the ninth sheath. Yeah, so what Sherry's talking about, and I'll let her further explain in a minute. But, you know, we're talking about DNA registers, right?

Okay, we're talking about some of these companies that so many of you sign up for. And by the way, and there's a bigger point to this. I want to make a bigger point of this. But there is companies like you, you and me 23 or whatever they are. Ancestry and all these. Yeah. And I'm not saying any of that. these companies do or don't do what we're saying.

But obviously, some of them do, right? Oh, they all do. They all use genealogy to map out your family. Even if your DNA is not there, they will use your child's DNA or your grandparents' DNA or whatever to map it out. Well, listen, here's the thing. A few months back, and this had nothing to do with this case, okay? We had got a couple emails in the past about this genealogy thing. We've actually heard other people tell us about this before in the past. to where they say, there's no way.

There were people saying there's no way. I think we had mentioned at one point in time that we had had one of these packets, which I never used, right? But we had had one of these packets. And we had mentioned on a podcast before, and there were people that just kind of funneled in and said, there's no way in hell I'd ever use that

because if you don't think that is a operation for the government to get your DNA, you're crazy, right? And although, yes, I have wondered and thought that. right and two or three four years ago that would be a huge conspiracy theory it's just some big conspiracy theory but now you got to think about how potentially that they are connecting coburger to the murders of these four college students and what it seems like how they're doing this is not even through brian coberger's DNA might actually seem like it is from his parents DNA which was potentially inserted into one of these companies um

you know, DNA pools to where they show you your ancestry. And although when I looked this up many months ago, there were multiple companies. Some of these companies had refuted claims that they worked with at all with law enforcement whatsoever because it is a right of privacy and all this stuff. And there are multiple companies that go back and forth saying, we don't do this. We refute those claims. There's been people that claim this that these companies do it. there's been companies that will tell on other companies

and then the other companies are telling other companies but what it seems like is if you submit your DNA to the government and well not to the government but do these companies by the way it's going to the government yeah they're probably proxy companies and listen guys and for those of you that are not into corruption or conspiracy or any of this stuff if you think that you're just going to submit your DNA just widely just here let me give you my DNA sample to the government, right? Not only do you not know what these companies are doing

with this DNA, because you think it's just a company, not the government, sorry, I keep saying the government, but that's literally what's happening. If we don't know that the government basically has no restrictions and no bylaws and no nothing, they can just do whatever they want to nowadays, then you're sadly mistaken. And if you're submitting your DNA to the government, look, and many of you are probably saying, well, I'm never going to kill someone, so I don't care. know my ancestry, right? But you also just don't, you don't know how they're using the DNA. Listen, there's one thing I'm going to say real quick.

There is something that many virologists and people around the world have been warning for a very long time is, and think about, I'm not going to go into COVID and the pandemic and all this stuff. But what I am saying is, the more information they have on the population as far as their DNA, the worst these viruses could potentially get in labs. and that's all I'm telling you. This has been a claim of even senators in the Senate. This has been claims of experts as far as in the medical community to where they're saying that you should not submit your DNA to these places because they could even use that as a biological weapon against certain strains of DNA.

These are the things we're talking about. And it's not just court hearings. But it sounds like that this potentially, Brian Koeberger thing, is a, what is it? is a familial DNA strand, which is somehow, you know, basically down the line linking him to these murders. So they don't even have, they don't even have to have his DNA. They can get his dad's DNA and then link his dad's DNA to him and then links them to the murder. Yeah, and then they do the cheek swab, and it was directly related to the touch evidence of the sheath.

But again, touch evidence is not the same thing as your actual DNA. Yeah, no, it's not. You could shake my hand and then I could put my hand on somebody's countertop and your DNA is going to be on my hand. Yeah. You're right. 100%. And so back to your point briefly, December 17, 2020, lab analysts were aware of two additional males DNA within the house where the deceased were located and another unknown male DNA on a glove found outside the residence. And that was on November 20th, 2022.

Right. So this was a few days, actually. Right. And I actually listened to the dude that found the actual glove. He was a retired detective. And he was, like, in awe that they didn't even find this. Yeah. Well, and also, quote, it says, to this date, the defense is unaware of what sort of testing, if any, was conducted on the samples other than the STR DNA profiles.

So what they're saying is, they don't care about this. They were honed in. That's what the defense is saying. They were honed in on this, and they're going to try to get a prosecution. And look, I'm not saying Coburger did not do this. No, not at all. We're just looking at how the case is and how much evidence they really have against him. And I want to bring up, and I'm probably getting off your little article, but you have to remember when he was first convicted or they first arrested him or what, not committed.

When they first arrested him of these heinous crimes, he asked, who else has been her? arrested. Yeah. And there's a lot of speculation that he was thinking about, oh, was my dad arrested because of the DNA stuff or was he working with somebody else? Yeah. That's very possible. 100% possible.

I mean, look, there's been speculation. There's been other people in this entire thing, really, since he's been arrested. And even beforehand, I mean, there was speculation that potentially someone inside the house, a friend or whoever could have potentially done this. And then once Coburger was arrested, one of the first. The first thing he said was who else was arrested. Mm-hmm. You know.

I mean, that's very interesting. You just don't come out with that. Like, who else was arrested? So I know. Because he wants to know. So, I guess to kind of close this a little, a little bit for now, right? I mean, this is going to be an ongoing story. We're going to cover.

Obviously, when a trial comes up, we're going to extensively cover that. And I don't assume. And we'll talk later. I don't know. Maybe, I don't know. We'll talk about the plea situation potentially later. Now. Now that the death penalty is on the table.

Now, I don't know if the police situation, I don't 100% know how that works. I kind of know how that works. Basically, we're actually talking about that with one of the mothers of a victim that we've covered on the podcast, which was it seven, eight months ago, about she's in a situation now or she's in a court case. And this court case is Marquay's. And Marquay's and they're out.

in Arkansas. If you look at the Mark Hayes murder, you can look at it on our podcast, you'll look up on Google or whatever. They recently arrested someone in that. And, you know, they're kind of just not going through the process of, you know, do I accept a plea or do you not? And how does that work? And we were talking to her about that. But anyways, we'll go into that later. But anyways, what we know right now, or what we still don't know, actually, about the Idaho murder. So no murder weapon has been found. Okay. So that's one thing we got to remember. police said before the gag order was issued following Mr. Koberger's arrest. It is not known if the killer personally knew one or more of the victims and whether the attack was carried out in a fit of jealousy or rage.

No motive is known at this time. Authorities have refused to reveal who made the 911 call and will not release the audio. It is unclear what the roommates and other friends discussed in the call and what led them to describe a victim as merely unconscious. The other thing we don't know is investigators have not revealed. whether they believe the killer entered the house before the victims arrived home and hid before striking in their sleep or whether he entered the house after the students

returned. So those are some of the things we do not know. There's a lot of things we don't know. But what I will say is that it's going to be one of these cases like a Murdoch murder case. It is going to be similar if it goes to trial. And when it comes to the plea,

like I said, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a judge. I don't know the law 100% of us. But I've got to bring up one more thing. That's very, very, very important in this whole thing as far as we know. You know, a lot of times, like we told you, prosecution will hide the evidence and not give it to defense. Well, as we know right now, for what we know that's out in public, everything's sealed, we don't know a lot of things. But as far as defense knows, they have found no DNA of any of the victims in his car, in his apartment, or in his home. His parents' home.

None. And you think about that crime scene. how brutal and when you're stabbing something you think about the blood coming out everywhere. I mean, I'm not trying to be like drastic, but I'm just telling you, there is no way. If you just can be in a room and breathe and get somebody's DNA on you, there's no way. Well, listen. Unless he had like a has Matt like costume or something. I don't know.

He doesn't even have to really do that. But how is there no DNA anywhere? Well, this is as far as the defense knows. Yeah. We don't know what the prosecution knows because I think they're hiding stuff. Potentially, yeah. Because they're not going to be, look, this is what they want the defense to be. They don't want the defense to be 100% prepared, right?

So, you know, they don't want the defense to come in and have a theory on why this DNA they present right before the trial comes in, right? Now, the thing about this is, too, I believe that the defense potentially, depending on when all of the pieces of evidence come into play in this. The defense could potentially ask for a continuous on this trial based on the fact of how long they have to prepare based on whatever evidence is entered into or given to the defense, right? So this October trial may actually not even be in October. It depends on how long. But that's also why Brian Coburg and his attorney are saying he has a right to a speedy trial. Right. That's one of the reasons they're saying that.

And that's why the judge gave them until July 14th for these three things. but there's so many more things that have not been given to the defense in order to prepare them for a, you know, a fair trial. Yeah. So, yeah, you're absolutely right. And, but the point is here is that Coburger could be innocent. He could be guilty. It could be any number of these things. And the reality of what we're kind of getting into is I hope that they have the right person, right?

I mean, that's what we hope. We want the families of this horrific tragedy to be able to at least move past this chapter. They're never going to get their family back. They're never going to get their sons or daughters back. Their son or daughters back. They're never going to get that back. You're never going to fix what happened based on a trial in any shape, form, or fashion. It'll give you a little tiny piece of your heart that just says, hey, you know, you can look up in heaven or whatever you believe in and say, look.

You got justice. You got justice, but the rest 90% of your heart is going to still be broke. Right. And that's the reality of it. And, you know, once something like this is done and committed, it's done. Yeah, and you can't change that and you can't fix it. And that's one of the things, too, is like, although we talk so much, we talk very heavily about corruption and the justice system, because there is a lot.

And politics and government and in the world and everything we see nowadays, people can't get along with each other. You're seeing more crime now than ever. were committing more violent, just extreme crimes, and it's fun to them. It's like because there's so many people nowadays that feel like they have nothing to live for anymore. But they can also get away with it. That's the problem with all the jail reform going on, everything going on. They know they can commit crimes and get away with it. And to your point, this is exactly my point I was getting at.

If the punishment was more severe and more swift, right, it would make a difference. but we go back to this whole stance on, you know, what if they're innocent? You know, and it's like, you know, what if they're innocent? And so I'm one of those people. It's like, look, we should just, if someone, if someone goes in and stab someone, right? And you know without a shadow of a doubt that this is the person who did it, you should a week later go and stab them in the middle of town square. Yeah, if you have an absolute 100% evidence. I get that.

An eye for an eye. That's the way I feel. But also at the same time, it's like, what if they're innocent? I mean. But when you go to a jury trial and you don't really have tons of direct evidence that are pointing like he definitely 100% did this. And it's your judgment based on the evidence that was provided for you. You know, that's a big role to play as a juror. A big role.

It's tough. I mean, you know, you had said, you know, even your jury thing. Yeah, it was like something. thing little, but I still felt like, well, this poor girl, she's young. Well, this isn't that little. I mean, for an everyday normal person, we're not going to say what it is. Yeah, but I'm just saying this girl is young. This could change her life, potentially for the rest of her life as she has a felony on her record, right? Felny. Yeah, it was a felony. Yeah, it was a felony. But can you say somebody's guilty

if you don't have enough evidence? And they didn't in your case. And I said there's not enough evidence to prove that she actually did this. Who was the first person that talked in your court in your jury when you all went to deliberate who was the first person who do you was it you yes of course I'm like what do you guys think and we went around and everybody was pretty much like not guilty and there was one

guy that was saying guilty but it was interesting because of the case this guy happened to be a door expert because that's what he does oh my god he was a door expert for like 20 years I'm not saying anything bad but he knew about steel doors with doors how frames break

you know if they break above the dead belt, you know, what it would look like, things like that. So he thought she was guilty based on the one picture evidence that they gave us. But there was one literal picture. And I just don't feel like you can convict somebody on a picture of a door frame. Based on what you told me, especially one particular thing, which we're not going to go into it. One particular thing that you told me today after the verdict was reached, you had said, something. And I was like, yeah, there's no way.

There's no way she did that. You just can't do that. And there's so many people, I hate to say that, you know, and I really want a conviction for these families. They deserve justice for sure. But there are so many people that are on death row right now that are innocent. Like that Reed guy, what's his name? That, like Dr. Phil is doing up his son and everything. He's still on death row. There's a lot of people. I mean, there's a lot of people on death row that is. That are truly innocent. And I'm not saying that Brian is innocent or guilty. You know, hopefully he's the right guy. By the way, I'm going to say this now in this episode. For those of you who are listening to the very last section of this,

I don't even know if I should say this. But what I am going to say is when Idaho student murders happens, okay? And we had, what, three episodes, four episodes out. I made a call from someone in my family. And it's not just, it's not just someone. is a first cousin. He's my first cousin. Right.

He's on death row. And he is on death for a murder. For a serial killer. Mm-hmm. He is a serial killer. I don't care to say that. I've really never really mentioned that before, but he is on death row as a serial killer. He has been on multiple television shows on TV, A&E, you name it.

He's been all of them. And I had not talked or seen or heard from him since, I believe, I don't know what it was. Since you were a child. No, 2000. No, it was the one I was in high school. 2000. And a lot of these murders had happened, you know, back in the 80s and 90s.

And I used to go to family reunions with him. His mother was a very Christian lady. His brothers were awesome, always have been. But he was really nice too, you said. Yes. I thought he was like the life of the party. He was. Like, he was the guy that at the family reunions.

You could literally, he was just a guy that you were attracted to. Like, not like gay wise. No, just to go have a conversation with him and, you know, talk. He was, he was very charismatic. He was one of those guys. He's a guy's guy. He's a guy's guy. He's one of those dudes.

Like I said, he's charismatic. And oftentimes, a guy that is charismatic to another guy also comes off as charismatic and very attractive to a lady. I mean, typically, that's usually how it goes. a guy that's going to be attracted to a guy as far as their personality and how they're listen this makes sense how they're like the person to talk

this is a dude to talk to let's talking about some dude stuff right and just how his personality is that's usually what is going to attract women to them as well and that's also what's going to open and make women more trusting this is what he used for a very long time allegedly allegedly but

I read all those records he really did not use his personality to kill these women. My point was, though, is that I had reached out to him, and I did reach out to him because, look, he is a family remember I had thought about this before. I kind of wanted to know, like,

you know, what was it that why he did this stuff, all this thing, especially with the Idaho murders. Yeah, we wanted to know what his thoughts were about this whole thing, too. We had mentioned the Idaho murders to him. He said a little bit here and there, but I think he was still, I don't know, I don't think he really has

a pills left. He's on death row. He doesn't really have a He has like maybe one thing that could potentially be something, but I wanted to figure out a way to connect him on the podcast to tell his opinion. It sounds weird. Yeah, just to get his opinion as a serial killer, like if he could invest in. Because you know, you hear a lot about these people. People that were criminals that they turn to FBI. They become FBI agents because they're so. Well, you're talking about hackers typically, not murderers.

Right. But, you know, people that have the insight and mind of the minds of those people, they use to help them. Well, yeah, I mean, FBI, CIA, all these people, yeah, they definitely do psychological operations on serial killers and some of these, especially the ones that are really good that get away with it for a long time. And he did. He got away with it for like 25 years. Right. And then, it was funny, my aunt was, she was the biggest Christian lady you ever meet, the nicest lady you ever meet. And she got cancer.

I don't know, six months. seven months before she died, maybe a year. And anyways, long story short, a month, it was a month after, or no, it was two weeks after I think my aunt died,

he got arrested for all these murders. Yeah, so she never knew. Yeah, she never knew. But it had to do with somebody else that thought they were terminally ill in where they're dying and they could not go

to the ground without telling the truth. Yeah. And that's how it all came out. Yeah, I would love to, I would just love to get his account on just his life and all that stuff at one point in time on this podcast. I mean, I don't want to use him, but I also want to understand how that happened. What was the mindset?

And, you know, he is a part of my family. I'm curious. But you won't even talk to him anymore. I mean, it's not that I won't, no, I mean, I've just not had a chance to connect with him lately. I don't know what the deal has been with that. But I don't know. It's a strange thing. So we'll have to figure all that out.

If we can ever figure out something with that. It's just hopefully Brian Coburger is the right person. And if he's not, I don't know. We're going to find out in October. And I think more and more things are going to come out. And we're, you know, as public, we're not all going to know anything because there's so many gag orders. There's so many things that are redacted or whatever. We're not going to know everything until the trial really out.

happens. Yeah, you're right. But guys, I want to say this, you know, and we should have probably said in the beginning, but we definitely still pray for all the families of these people that are lost. That's a very horrific way to go. It is very hard. I can't imagine when these families are still, sorry, still dealing with and always will be dealing with. But listen, I mean, hopefully they got the right person.

And as the trial goes on, if anything crazy or breaking comes out before now and then, we will definitely cover that. And for those of you that want another true crime podcast, we are going to discuss the Mark Hayes murder now that someone is in custody. We believe that some of this was because of our, maybe potentially a lot of this because of our podcast. They got a lot of people talking. We talked to people that were on the, like literally there when he got murdered.

We called the FBI. We talked to FBI. We did wherever we could with this. There was tons of attention on it. And we're so happy for the family that if someone's finally in custody for this. But we're going to an update on... Yeah, but it's going to a trial in October the same time this is going in trial. So, yeah, we're going to definitely do an update of that podcast.

And we have some like a major news coming with that podcast. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of corruption in a lot of that stuff. So, guys, be prepared for that. By the way, this song is called Shivers, Image, Love, and Calibur. And we've played this on every one of the podcast with Idaho Steer Mirrors, because it reminds me of probably what the friend, and family are thinking of the people that lost their lives.

Guys, until next time, we love you. Peace out. Peace out. Most of the times I think when it's shiver. It's just the little with my friends. And we drink. Wake up in that bed right beside you. All of the memories I try to erase just because I see that phase and it's shivered.

If just for a little asleep and is I don't know.