Investigate Earth Conspiracy Podcast - Inside The Paranormal Podcast | Ed and Lorraine Warren & The Annabelle Doll

Episode Date: August 21, 2025

Step inside the world of the paranormal as we explore the legacy of Ed and Lorraine Warren, the infamous Annabelle doll, and the true stories that inspired The Conjuring films. From the Warrens’ most chilling investigations to our own real-life ghost encounters, we dive into the mysteries that blur the line between this world and the next. Whether you’re a skeptic or a believer, this episode will make you question what’s really out there in the dark. All of this and more on this episode of Inside The Paranormal Podcast | Ed and Lorraine Warren & The ConjuringCheck out our merchandise store

Hello and welcome to Investigate Earth Podcast. I'm your host, Chad, alongside my beautiful wife, Sherry. On tonight's episode, we're diving into one of the most well-known names in the world of paranormal, Ed and Lorraine Warren. Whether you believe in ghosts, demons, or think it's all just stories, you've definitely heard of them. They were the couple at the center of the most famous hauntings in modern history, cases that inspired movies like The Conjuring series. And of course, we can't talk about the Warrens without mentioning the Annabelle doll,

which has become one of the most chilling artifacts in their collection. This wasn't just a creepy toy sitting on a shelf. People claimed it moved, attacked, and even carried a dark presence that the Warrens believed was tied to something demonic. The Warrens were controversial. They had believers, skeptics, and plenty of critics. But love them or hate them, their stories have shaped how we see paranormal today. That's what we're going to break down on this episode of Investigator's podcast.

Guys, welcome to the show. It is August the 20th, 2020. And that song is Shivers in the Shadows by Victor Lungberg. It's kind of creepy. It's a creepy song. It is. I was thinking, like, if anyone's watching or listening to this at work, you're probably freaking them out.

Especially if they work at night and there's security guard and there's no light. Oh, my gosh. Oh, yeah. If they're in a like dark building. Yeah. Going down the halls right now. Well, it actually reminds me, we have some listeners from Hawaii and they actually run security for this old hotel.

It's a very, very old hotel. And I'll never forget, he actually sent me videos of their surveillance cameras at night. And they worked the night shift. And it's him and like three or four other guys. So they are consistently reviewing tapes, reviewing the footage, so on and so forth. And they had started having a lot of these weird things start popping up in the hotel to where things will be moved. And even in the kitchen, the chefs in the kitchen could not find certain things. Things were disappearing.

And then he sends me these videos, which I need. need to go back and find them and I need to post them on our social media because what you see in these videos are figures. These things move across the floor at night. This is when they're working, but they're obviously somewhere else that are going through doors. Sometimes the doors are moving. Chairs are moving out of the way. So we're talking about paranormal tonight. Obviously, we're talking about Ed and Lorraine Warren. They were considered some of the most, I guess you can say notorious paranormal investigators. They inspired a series like the conjuring series.

Obviously, also the Annabelle doll is highly linked to the Warrens. And we're going to break down some of their original interviews of when they actually talked. And this is on their actual channel. But where they talked about how the Anibal doll thing came about, they also went and investigated the Amniville Horror House, which we actually just did not that long ago. And where Defeo, it was the Defeo family murders where the son allegedly killed his entire family. And not allegedly.

He did kill his family. Yeah, he admitted to it pretty much. But the big thing is, is like there's always been controversy. Did he do it because he was demonically possessed or was it something bigger than that? Was it just he was crazy? And we're going to also get into, obviously with Sherry and some of her experiences, the orbs, all of that. We're going to get into that. And we're going to talk about like, is everything that we see as far as paranormal or ghost,

orbs, spirits, UFOs, UAPs? Is all of that demonic? Is it just automatically demonic because if you're a Christian, you believe in the Bible? Is that what it is? Or is there maybe like a nicer paranormal ghost out there? Someone that you can actually kind of hang out with and chill. Because I think that's what Sherry thinks. Well, we have a lot to discuss because I have been letting chat GBT analyze my brain today.

And I have a lot of good ideas of what it could be. Yeah. It's going to be a very interesting episode, guys. But we are glad to be doing stuff like this. Obviously, we're getting into the spooky season. It is towards the end of August. We have Halloween just around the corner. And something that we have been flirting with as well is, and we had talked about on the last

episode, is we want to actually go out and investigate some of these haunted places. Maybe we'll start in South Carolina because that is their home state. But we have a lot of very haunted history in South Carolina, number one, the Charleston Old Jell, which is one of the most haunted places in the whole entire United States. And then we also have various plantation homes and just things that people have seen things at night and seen things during the day, even on tours, or they've heard things from maybe some of these houses were close by on some of these plantations and they would see things walking through the fields at night or during the day.

It's pretty incredible. And we want to absolutely get into some of this, just you and I, Sherry, and maybe bring a couple of people along that are absolutely bad shit scared of ghost because I think that'd be, our daughter. Yeah, I think it'll be, I think it'd be awesome too, actually. Oh, my gosh. She would die. I actually texted her last night and asked her if she'd be willing to go like on any of these ghost hunts.

She's like, not no, but you know what, no. Hell no. I will not step foot into any of those places. But it would be so funny. Well, and see, that's the thing. There's various ways to be able to investigate this stuff, right? And, you know, back in Ed and Lorraine Warren's Day, which was what, back in the 70s, I believe, 70s, even, I think potentially earlier than that, You know, Ed and Lorraine Warren used a lot of kind of old school equipment, you know, whether it be bells, they would tie to doors or devices that took pictures based on temperature readings in a certain area.

They actually cover that in the movie The Conjuring. And by the way, if you guys have not watched The Conjuring series, I encourage you to do so. Oh, it's so good. Yeah, I believe The Conjuring is one of the best series of either paranormal or horror films. But they just do it very well. They tell the story really good. There is a good story there. they direct it really well.

They shoot and capture what actually happens in The Conjuring amazingly well. Yeah. And the lady that the actress that plays Lorraine, she does a great job. Just the way she focuses her face, she looks like a real medium, like somebody that could speak to ghosts. Yeah, for sure. So I encourage you guys to definitely go out and check that out. Also, just want to mention, we do have a merchandise store. And I know that we have been talking about it for seven years, but we actually have it up now.

That is investigator store.com. We will put the link in the description. We got a lot of cool merchandise there. We have limited edition merchandise where we change about once a month. And so once that merchandise has changed, it's gone forever. And typically, like right now, we have some Kimtrell stuff up. We got some alien stuff like Alien Track and Field or Area 51 track and field. And it shows a little alien running from the guards at Area 51.

It's pretty awesome. We got a lot of cool designs. We'll add some and take some out as time goes on. but if you want to support us and you want some cool merchandise, go check it out. Everybody that's ordered so far loves it. The quality is great. The printing is good.

The shirt quality is good. And we do have a regular shirt, which is Bella Canvas, great shirt. We also have a premium line, which is comfort colors. It's a thicker, like heavy duty shirts. I really like those, especially if you want to wear T-shirts in the winter or fall or something like that. And it's really, really good quality. So make sure that you guys go check out our store and follow us on our social media. Yeah, and they are great conversation starters because whenever I wear our shirt out, like even to the grocery store or for shopping, somebody always comes up to me and says something about my shirt.

Even I was wearing the Save the Beagles shirt one day. I think we're voting. And she's like, come on, save the beagles. Like, what is this all about? You know, it's just a good conversation starter. So as we get into these interviews where we break this stuff down and tell you whether or not we think Ed and Lorraine Warren were actually investigators that can. you know, maybe communicate with the other side or with paranormal. You have to understand is that Ed Lorraine Warren, at least the way the movie makes it

out and all the interviews, they weren't out there to try to communicate with Satan necessarily. They weren't out there to try to do seances and, you know, build this a cold up. They were out there to, in some ways, I guess you can say, create or perform exorcisms. Or at the very least, they were of Catholic faith. They communicated often with priests actually in their museum, which is one of the most famous museums ever, which Matt Rife, the comedian just recently bought, there is pieces in that museum that they have taken from all of their investigations. And they say this is one of the most haunted museums ever because all of these things in some way

are tied to possessions or whatever it was where they investigated these hauntings. But who in the heck would have a museum in their own home? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if that's real or not, but if they did, that is some scary stuff. It's absolutely real. I would not ever like have haunted stuff in my own house. No. Even if it had a lock on the door.

No, it's absolutely real. And, you know, it's funny because in the movie, I'm not giving away anything. But at some point in time, the warrants actually bring a police officer with them. And one of the guys is like, just so you know, you can't shoot ghost. And he's like, okay. But anyway, so yes, they absolutely have this museum. They have pieces from all around their investigations, everything that they have done in their career as paranormal investigation. slash demonologists, I guess they refer themselves to.

Even in a movie, it actually shows Ed Warren, which is not technically given permission from the Catholic Church to perform an exorcism. But at one point in time, it got to the point where he had to do something because the approval was not coming down through, even the Vatican in this case. And the next day, it finally did. And he had already had to do it. Yeah. So what you have to understand is like with demonic possessions and exorcisms, now obviously

the Catholic Church is huge in this. We had actually played this on one of our previous podcast, where there were multiple clips we played where these priests actually perform exorcisms. And some of the things that they said that they seen during exorcisms are not very far off at all from what actually happens in the conjuring, in the movie. And what Ed and Lorraine Warren swear by that they were part of and witnessed alongside many others around them. So whereas, yes, obviously there's always people that say, you know, are the Warrens,

are they grifters? Are they someone that just, you know, wanted to tell all of these big tells, say that they performed exorcisms were in the presence of ghost or the paranormal just to sell a movie idea? And listen, the same thing was the case with the Amniville horror. You know, the Defeo himself, Butch Defeo, which was the one accused of the murders, actually in a prison interview said, look, I was not demonically possessed. Not at all. The people that actually moved into the home, the Lutz's. Was it the Lutz's? Yeah.

Yeah, they actually, I knew them. Yeah, I knew them, and they were just going to do a book deal to get rich off of it. Yeah. And so, yeah, that was the big thing. And then obviously, they did get rich off of it. They had a book deal. They had a huge movie. The Amn Evil Horror.

And so some people have questioned whether or not the conjuring is kind of the same thing. Did the Warrens kind of make all this stuff up in some degree to actually sell a movie and book idea? But many people out there, many experts, including priests, say that Ed and Lorraine Warren were pretty legit. and we're going to get to some of their interviews to break some of that stuff down in just a moment. But the Annabel doll, because we're going to obviously include the Annabel doll in the title. The real Annabal doll wasn't created for Hollywood. It was actually a Raggedy Ann doll that dated back to the late 1960s or early 1970s. And a story goes like this.

In 1970, a nursing student named Donna received the doll as a gift from her mother. And at first, it was just an ordinary stuff doll. But soon, Donna and her roommate, Angie, started noticing. strange things. The doll would appear in different positions, sometimes even in different rooms, without anyone touching it. And they claimed it would leave handwritten notes on parchment paper that said things like, Help Us, even though they didn't keep parchment paper in the apartment whatsoever. And eventually, they brought it to a psychic who told them that the spirit of a little girl named Annabelle Higgins was attached to the doll and just wanted to love and accept or wanted

love and acceptance. So out of sympathy, Donna and Angie gave the spirit permission to stay with the doll. but things quickly got darker. One of their friends, Lou, reportedly woke up to the doll trying to strangle him, and another time he was left with deep scratch marks on his chest. That's when the Warrens got involved. Ed and the rain believed it wasn't just the spirit of a little girl at all. It was a demonic entity using the doll as a conduit. They took Annabelle with them and placed it in their occult museum in Monroe, Connecticut,

locking it in a glass case with warnings to never, ever touch it. When I was younger, I had a regular. Agaddy Ann and Andy dolls. I had both of them. Yeah. They were cloth dolls with like yarn type hair. I'm sure a lot of you out there had the same dolls, especially if you are women. I doubt most boys would have those.

But I could not imagine this doll doing these kind of things to people because it was just like cloth. Yeah. Like how could it be? Because in the movie, they show this really crazy, creepy looking doll. It's not actually the real Annabelle doll. because the real Annabelle doll is Raggedy Ann. Yeah. And they actually say the real Annabelle doll, the one that was different and how it was different from the original Raggedy Ann doll was much larger.

So apparently it was specially made. It was different. But it looks nothing like Raggedy Ann. No. The doll in the movie. Yeah, you're right. The doll in the movie does not. But what I'm saying is the actual Annabelle doll, the Raggedy Ann doll was a much bigger version.

Like no one else had this type of doll, this type of Raggedy Ann doll. This was a much bigger version of the doll. And so it is now in the occult museum, I guess you can call it, which Matt Rife just recently bought. And keeping also in mind, the guy that takes this doll on tour just recently died like two months ago. We've talked about this on the podcast many times. He is the one that was responsible for taking the doll in various places. He would tell the story of the Annabelle doll. And during one of his trips, about a month and a half ago to two months ago, this was during the time,

I think he was in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, in his hotel room. He actually died of cardiac arrest. Now, we don't know fully. And he was young. Yeah, he was probably like 45 or 46 years old somewhere around there. And he had been, you know, he's actually the one that built the case for the doll for the Warrens. He's the one that gives a lot of the tours. He's the one that kind of talks about it.

If you ever go to the museum, he was one of the main guys that would tell you all about the Annabelle doll. And so he traveled with it quite often. And in this particular case a month and a half ago, he did die. of cardiac arrest and obviously cardiac arrest is when your heart stops but you know what led to that wasn't just simply a heart attack but there have been obviously other types of instances with people that have either touched or been around or mocked the doll to where they would get in car accidents and be killed or just various weird out of ordinary things would happen when people would be around this doll so um i just wanted to tell the backstory of this before we get into the

Ed and Lorraine Warren interview. And I think this interview is great because this is something that you're not going to hear or see or get from the movie. And this is the real story of the Annibal doll as described by Ed and Lorraine Warren. Listen. Even, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a brand new program of Seekers of the Supernatural. I'm your moderator, Tony Sparra, along tonight with Ed Warren and Lorraine Warren, famous ghost hunters.

It's a new year. It's a new show. We have new cases. But for those who perhaps aren't very familiar with Ed and Lorraine Warren, what we'd like to do, like I said, it is a new year. It's the year 2000. We'd like to talk to Ed and Lorraine regarding how they started, how long they've been in this business, what they think of the new millennium, things to come. So what I'd like to do is start out with you, Lorraine. If you can tell us how you and Ed began the work and how long ago it was.

Wow. It's a long time, Tony. It was over 50 years ago that we began as husband and wife to do it. Not long after Ed came home after serving in World War II, he began talking about that home he grew up in in Bridgeport, began talking about the hauntings that had occurred there. That was really hard for me to accept that. I had never been in a haunted home, but I always had something about myself I didn't understand, and that was an ability to know things through extracensory perception.

But I suppressed those feelings, Tony, to a great extent, because there really was no one I could share them with. Now, with Ed, it was important to him to satisfy his curiosity regarding that. house that he grew up and did other families really experience the types of things that he experienced and as artist because he was now studying art and already beginning to sell his paintings very early on in his career after getting out of the service within the first couple of years let me ask you you said you had the ability to know things yeah what do you mean by that and what year what How old were you? It started about nine, Tony, that I had the ability to, I could see lights around people

and know things about these people, but I didn't quite understand it. But I always had tremendous faith. I still do. I always felt that through prayer, anything could be changed, if it was God's will, anything could be helped. And I always relied on that. but I didn't understand what I experienced. Also, the night I met my husband and I knew I was going to spend my life with him,

I fully did not understand that. That was my first outstanding thing that happened in my young adult life. I want to pause for a second because obviously Lorraine here is talking about, you know, she had this gift, I guess you can say, this chosenship. she felt like maybe she didn't realize that at the time but she saw things and felt things other people probably didn't and you know it's always funny as we've talked about stuff like this on our podcast and especially as much as we've talked about the Bible and the book of enoch and you know kind of the watchers and the nephalum and and how all of that plays into

potentially the paranormal and the supernatural you know the next sentence that Lorraine says here is very important because she said I would pray I wanted to be God's will you know know, these are Christian people. They were Christian people. They believed in God. They prayed heavily. They were Catholics. And they were in constant communication as the years went on with the Vatican, the multiple priests that performed exorcisms, which Ed himself, obviously in the beginning of his career and quite a long time, actually, after they started, was not able to perform exorcisms. Because in the Catholic Church, it's not just because you're Catholic, you can go perform exorcisms. this is a kind of high ranking position as priest and not all priests are able to perform exorcisms

as well. Part of the reason for that is because it's a very dangerous thing to get into. It is very dangerous. And for those out there that are saying, oh, my God, exorcisms are not real. There's no such thing as demon possession. Well, I can promise you, you go ask a lot of priests around the world and people that have actually seen it. It is very real.

And that's the thing I was going to talk to you, Sherry, about which we're not going to go crazy in a detail about it yet. we'll talk about that on the back half but you absolutely certainly have some type of something i've seen it i've witnessed it i even see the things that you see that you can almost call in or bring in for whatever reasoning and i can't even tell you how many people after we've talked about on the show where they'll email us or write in and say look you guys need to quit screwing with that stuff because it's demonic um it is going to uh potentially you know um manifest itself in you whether that is whatever you know whether it is a demon or a demon

spirit. And the thing I worry about, which I'll tell you a little bit later about you is, although I think you do certainly have something like a gift or an ability to see or call in things or kind of communicate with something else out there, I do worry about you as well. And I definitely would worry more about you than Lorraine in this case for various reasons. But let me just put it out there. Lorraine knew at a very young age at nine years old that she had an ability to sense things. I did as well. But also, and I walked with God. I talked to God every day. I still talk to God every day. I feel like God is a huge influence in my life. Just because I don't proclaim to be a Christian does not take away from my ability to believe in God,

and trust in God, and love God, and walk with God. Yeah. And we're going to get into, you know, are these things that even you communicate with, that Ed and Lorraine have communicated with and a lot of psychics and paranormal investigators communicate with. Are these things all evil or could potentially some of them be good? And I just want to point out too, when I tell you when I was little, I used to talk to God. I used to talk to God. I could talk to God and I feel him inside me. Yeah. This has been since I was a little girl. Just I've had experiences that probably normal people don't have, but I'm just saying as a very young girl, even though I didn't really practice any religion because we had so many religions going in one household. I was still very spiritual.

Yeah, for sure. So I want to make that point clear for when we do go into this topic of, you know, is this demon? What is this? You know, what have you? And should you be communicating with these things? That's the bigger question. But let's listen to some more. Now, let me interrupt for one moment. Ed, I'd like you to address that. Well, you got to understand, Tony, that there was a lot of confusion when I was small because my My father, who was a police officer at that time, would always say to me, Ed, there's a logical reason for everything that happens in this house. These were not logical things.

You don't see the spirit of an old woman coming out of a closet. Your bed doesn't shake. You don't hear pounding sounds. The room doesn't turn icy cold. You don't see lights flashing across the room. These were not logical things. My dad knew it. But on the other hand, he didn't want to frighten us.

and he always felt that his religious beliefs were strong enough to take care of anything in that house because he was a very spiritual man. I don't think I ever know my father missing the day's Mass. You always make sure he went to Mass in the morning or went to church after work when you come home late at night. But he'd always make a visit to the church. So what I wanted to do was to find out if what he said was true, there's a logical reason for everything yet, but there wasn't. This is the House in Bridgeport?

This is the House of Bridgeport, Connecticut on Jane Street. That was haunted. I lived there from the age of 5 until 12. This was my indoctrination into the world of the supernatural and preternatural. Now, I went to a parochial school, which is a Catholic school, and the nuns were constantly talking about apparitions, the Holy Ghost, spirits. You know, this was part of Catholic doctrine. still is today.

So that I was familiar with that, and I would connect what was happening in my home with what was happening in school, what they were telling me. And then I would hear this old priest talk about a man being possessed, two streets down from where I lived, and that exorcism was going to be performed. Now, I was only a kid.

I'm only eight, nine, ten years old, you know, but I understood what they were talking about. I had an inner knowledge, even at that time. A lot of people said, to me, well, Ed, you're one of seven religious demonologists in the country today. How did you become a demonologist? Did you go to school for that? Did you, did you ask me of a diploma or a certificate? No. I was born a demonologist. I had the inner knowledge that I used today. In fact, a lot of priests will come to me and say, where did you learn about this? It wasn't anything I learned out of a book. And then, as Lorraine and I went from one case to a another. Fifty years ago, we put these cases into certain categories, earthbound spirits, demonic, inhuman spirits, poltergeist. And we took all this knowledge and we put it into nine books that we have today. We're working on number 10. But this was important for us because

as a kid, I'd read a book and it would be about a certain case of a haunting. And then I read another book. It was something about the same haunting, but things had changed. One writer had changed it from the other. So I told her, we can't pay attention too much to what these people are saying in these books. We have to take the knowledge that we have, and that's the knowledge we'll put into our books. Do you remember like the first case you guys ever went on together? Do you know what it was? The Ocean Born Mary House in Hensker, New Hampshire. And it was in that house, Tony. Now, remember, we were up there to deliver paintings, but it was Ed was drawn to these places like a magnet. For those who perhaps haven't tuned in before, Ed and Lorraine,

are known artists, and I think they had panned in on one of Ed's paintings before we even began the program tonight. Can you tell us a little bit about that painting, Ed? That's a screen castle in Scotland. And of course, Lorraine and I do a lot of traveling, and I take pictures of haunted areas. When I get home, I'll do paintings. And that's what this particular painting is about. But in my earlier years, when I left art school, I came home one day, I said to Lorraine, look at, all the tourist areas are opening up, up in Vermont, New Hampshire. Now we're talking early 1950s. I know that if I do some quick paintings up, New England scenes, seascapes, landscapes, we could sell them for fantastic prices. We'll be rich.

I said, we'll be on Easy Street. And I did sell them. How much? For $3, $4. But that was good money, then. $3. You can stay overnight for a dollar apiece in a cabin. Hot dogs were $0.10.

Hamburgers were $0.10. gasoline was 18 cents a gallon so you know if I sold four or five paintings for four or five dollars we were on top of the world and we're hobnaving with all these tourists so it was a fun time for us and I would say to her I heard about this house in fact I'll give you a rundown on that

we had to deliver six paintings to a logging camp up in Vermont or excuse me New Hampshire New Hampshire and we took this couple with this It was a Sunday. We started out early. We figured it would take us seven hours to get up there, seven hours to get back. We were kids.

We didn't care. And we dropped off the paintings for this kid who had bought him for his brother for his wedding. But on the way up there, we came to a sign, and it said Henneker. I said, Henneker. Son of a gun. I said, I just read about Henneker, New Hampshire. About three weeks ago, a haunted house called the Ocean Born Mary House. us. And this kid in the back says, Ed, there must be a million henikers. We round the curve,

Tony, and there's a sign there. And the sign says, this is the only hannaker on earth. Now, you have seen that sign. You're still there today. You and Judy were there. And that was over 50 years ago. That was over 50 years ago. It was probably a different sign, but it's still there. Same thing. And I said to them, this is a fascinating case. It's a of a woman who was born at sea, when the pirates attacked the ship, her mother was on. Her mother became all excited and frustrated to have the child. The pirate captain came out of board and said, if you'll name that child Mary after my mother, I'll spare everybody on board.

No problem. The child was named Mary. But the strange thing is that this captain, who was named a Captain Perry, kept in touch with a baby when she even grew up after she was married. Her name was Mary Walsh. The husband died, the pirate captain built this beautiful big home up on a hill in Henneker. He was pretty old at that time, and I guess she probably was in her late 40s. So with the husband being gone, he made her a deal. He said, look, if you'll come and be my housekeeper with your sons, she had seven sons, very tall guys.

And she was very tall. He said, you can live here for the rest of your life. Well, she took on that responsibility, but he was found murdered in the orchard one day, killed with a cutlass. I guess somebody was trying to find out where he hit his treasure. But Mary continued to live on in the house with her sons, and she lived there until she was 98 years old. But after she died, Tony, people would talk about a ghostly coach pulling up in front of the house where the well was. Her apparition would get out of the coach, go to the well, drop a package in, then go back to the coach, and would drive off.

Now, many people of Hennecker said they experienced this haunting. There were two detectives from Concord, who said, this is a bunch of bunk. We're going up there, we're going to spend the night. Well, halfway through the night, they got so frightened. They fled back to Concord. And that's what interested me. Why would two guys, detectives, gave their names and everything, be frightened of something in an old house? Really?

Something happened. I wanted to know what that something was. So we get to Hennecker. Where do you find out where there's a haunted house? The nearest college. New England College was in its infancy at that time. All the kids know about it. All kids know what hauntings are, yes.

Just go outside the village, go underneath the iron bridge, take your first left, up a dirt road to the top of the mountain. That's where the Ocean Born Mary House is. We did that. I want to tell you, it was late in October. the wind was blowing, leaves were all off the trees, and this is the time that Oceanborn Mary's ghostly coach was supposed to show up.

So we're going up there, and it was a strange whistling sound, sort of like air coming through a window. Maybe it was air coming through a window, but it had a very strange... Erie sound to it? Yeah. And we get up there, here's this huge, big, dark, stark house. No lights on.

I've seen it recently. I park out in front of these kids. Oh, that's right. You've seen that. me. Jerry, go up and knock on a door. See if you get in the house. Now, this guy doesn't believe in ghosts. Ed, there's no way I'm getting out of this car and going up to that door and knocking on it. So we need a volunteer. We shove the rein out the door. No, they didn't. Slam the door and locked in, she went up. Nobody would go. Now, Tony, being brought up as, as I was, I'm very sheltered private Catholic girls schools the whole bit I never feared the dark I never had fears of the dark how many people would walk up to that house and I got a door I didn't fear things like that maybe I had nothing to compare it with nothing that I ever had to be frightened of I can see she never seen Frankenstein no and I was never interested in understand though that you had your first psychic or out of the body experience there my very very

very, very first. And in that home, Tony, as I listened, all I could think of as I listened to Mr. Roy, tell Ed the story of that house and what he experienced and what his mother had experienced in the past was the sincerity in his voice. That is what I, that is what more or less I was listening to. I was listening to that, and I probably, Tony, was watching his aura because that will tell a great deal about the person. But then all of a sudden, the room became very quiet. And my ears were ringing, and they rang so loud that it blotted out everything that was in that room. Then it felt as if someone came behind me, there was a tremendous jolt to my body, and I was out of my body. What a beautiful experience that really was. Today, as I see,

speak to people as I speak to everyone that's listening, I wish everybody could have an experience like that because what it proves, Tony, is that we are truly both body and soul. Well, Ed, isn't it true that everybody will experience that at one point in their life? Well, out-of-the-body experiences are about as frequent as people breaking bones today. I would have to say that maybe seven out of ten people have that experience. But how about when they pass on from this life? When they pass on. Then they will go out of the body, correct?

Yes. Is that how you classify, their spirit would leave the body? Yes, at the moment of death, Tony. That is exactly why. Now, there are nurses, and there are doctors, and there are family members who claim to have actually witnessed that when people have kept. They actually see the spirit leave a person at the moment of death.

But to experience that, while you are still very much alive. I know. That must be great. It is. It's just a transition from this physical body into the spirit world. But it was like my brother, who died recently. He was interested to a certain extent.

And I never found out why he was never home at night until two days before he died. I said, Frank, where were you all those nights? I said, I'd be home alone. My parents wouldn't be there. My sister wasn't there. He wouldn't be there. I said, where were you? He said, I never wanted to tell you.

He said, but I wasn't going to be in that house. He said, my room was right at the hell of the stairs where the door would open up, the footsteps would come up. And he said, how he would see this white glow. He said, I wasn't going to stay in that house. But I didn't find that out until two days before he died. He never told me about it. You know, that's really a long time ago that you guys started out,

but I know you've had thousands, thousands literally of cases. Oh, God, yes. And I also know that you have a museum. on your property. Yes. Now, Ed, would you want to just tell a little bit about some of the things, perhaps, that are in that museum that are really fascinating, scary things, perhaps, that you've collected over the years?

All right. All right. I'm going to stop for just a second because we get to talk about the spirit, right, leaving the body. And there's actually been some scientific experiments about this, right? So Dr. Duncan, I think his name was McDougal. His experiment in 1901 to 1907, McDougal, a physician in Massachusetts, Massachusetts placed six dying tuberculosis patients on a specially built bed that was attached to a scale.

And he said the moment each patient died, their body showed a sudden weight loss. The most cited result was 21 grams lost in one patient. The other showed smaller, but more inconsistent changes ranging from zero to 42 grams. He reported the test on dogs. He euthanized 15 of them and claimed that there was no weight change at death, which the argument animals had no soul. So published in American medicine in 1907, the 21 grams figure comes from the average in human results. Though in reality, only one subject showed that exact number.

McDougu himself admitted the sample size was tiny and the scales weren't perfect. But there were many of them that had weight loss at the time of death, like the exact time of death. And so there was only six people, not nearly enough to make a scientific claim, but not every patient showed the same exact weight change, which is what science argues. So, well, they don't show the exact same weight change. But many of them showed a actual weight change. So possible explanations, air leaving lungs, bodily fluids evaporating, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Movement of the scale during the moment of death. And the dog experiment has also been criticized.

He assumed his results proved animals had no soul, but there's no way to prove that from weight laws necessarily. So this legacy, even though science was flawed, the 21 grams idea stuck in culture because it gave a physical number to something very mysterious like our souls and it's been used in books documentaries and even a 2000 movie or 2003 movie 21 grams but yeah i mean this has been a theory like when you die that you lose a certain weight to you and so people speculate based on these studies that your soul has some type of weight i totally believe that and i believe it is a body and soul because that is another thing that i have experienced all through my life is outer body experiences where I actually am looking down on my body. I'm floating outside.

And I know it sounds crazy, but it's the truth. And it's happened to me since I was a little girl. And I even, my mom took me to a psychologist. And the psychologist was to sit down with me and talk to me about it. And he even said back then, Sherry, you just have special gifts. You are experiencing things that normal people don't experience. And I'm not saying that you're crazy and it's not happening to you because it is. And it did happen to me.

And it does happen to me. And that goes along with what is it called vivid dreaming or lucid dreaming? Lucid dreaming. It goes along with all of those aspects as well. Yeah. But I just wanted to comment too when she said that, you know, how God was her faith and everything, it reminded me that God was my faith too because when I first had my faith. my child, faith, I was naming her.

I wanted to name her with a name that started with an S to go with Sherry, you know, like Selena, you know, all these Serena, any kind of S names. But God came to me and told me that I had to name her faith. And that's how she got her name. And I'm not kidding. Very crazy. But yeah. And she also has a lot of empathy, which I feel like I have a lot of empathy towards

people more than most people. Like I can actually feel what people are feeling. I can feel what animals are feeling. I have that empathy. Yeah, for sure. Now, you, and that's why I always say, Sherry definitely, like, if you look at, like, who's a better person, I guess you can say, like, Sherry probably is in a lot of those ways, just as far as, you know, Sherry will do things.

I guess I can say that, like, she knows for a fact or don't even really even think about the fact that is someone going to do this in return if this happens. to me. And we've, I mean, we can talk about like COVID and just various things of what you've done for other people. And then, you know, when you would have certain, you know, certain things happen to you and no one would do anything for you. Yeah. And that's fine. Yeah. But that was never. Yeah. But that was never why you were doing it. No. That's just part of who I am. And it's just the way God created me. But definitely I've had outer body experiences since I was little. Just so you know. And my thing is like, I don't know. I have a more, I guess you can say.

tainted mind or whatever it is. I am my mind and body or not mine my mind and in soul maybe hopefully not soul but something is tainted right and as to where I kind of have these premonitions and I read people very well. Oh you do you do. I read people very well to the point. Chad has abilities as well. You just has different abilities. I just I feel like and it's not even judgmental necessarily and I hope it's not but I feel like I can read people very fast and there's been so many occurrences and so many instances to where, you know, there will be someone that comes into our life for whatever reason, whether it's on Sherry's side or my side. And usually I can tell that person or who they are instantaneously. I can tell exactly who they are. Are they full of shit? Are they

right? Are they loyal? Are they going to be trustworthy? Are they going to be someone that's going to be there for you? Are they going to screw you over? And, you know, there's been people like that in Sherry's life, been people like that in my life. And there's been times that Sherry has argued me about certain people or things. And I said, Sherry, I promise you. And then a month later, two months later, I'm proven right exactly what I was talking about and exactly what my point was. But because of my level of empathy, I have to trust people and give them the benefit of

the doubt until they do something to prove me wrong. I get it. I might feel something. But as long as they haven't done something or acted out of unkind ways, I'm going to trust them fully until they make me not. trust them. So I guess I give people the benefit of the doubt more than you do. Yeah. And I think I guess maybe just in my life, I guess, and I think so many people's lives, it's not just mine, but I just feel like that maybe because of past things where I've been screwed over or people

have just continually proved my point to what I believed in the beginning. It's like in your mind, you get to a point where it's like, when are you going to learn? And, you know, and so that's where my mind kind of goes. Yeah. Mine's more blinded, I guess. Yeah, but also, but also at the same time, and Sherry will tell you this as well, Sherry is like empathetic to people and loving and caring to everybody. It doesn't matter who they are. It doesn't matter what they've done. That is a great quality to have as a person.

That is something like, for example, Judge Frank Caprio died today. And I want to say rest in peace and pray for his family. Judge Frank Caprio was the guy that probably some of you have seen that was like the nicest judge ever. these guys would come in they would be late sometimes they would not have paid their stuff they had a warrant and you'd be like you know what i'm just going to let you go i'm going to make sure but he would give them these talks he would be so empathetic he would be so loving and caring towards these people and you know what probably the difference that that judge likely made in these people's lives because of the way he was um that's something that we don't really get that much anymore and so for me it's like i i i oftentimes think

because like I want to be, I want to be more empathetic. I want to be more caring and loving to people, but I also feel like that I have to protect myself in some ways and in a lot of ways. And I think it is, it stems from your childhood. And we both come from trauma. And I think that's what opens our brains to different levels of,

you know, whatever we experience. But I think that you are more protective of your soul than I am. And yours. And yours. But I'm also protective of you. And that's the other thing. I,

you know, and I guess that's that's the strange thing. I'm very protective over not just me but you because I don't want people to screw you ever. I don't want people to do you wrong, especially when you're out there giving all for someone else. I don't care. I'm like, well, whatever. You know, I'm just doing this out of the kindness of my heart because I love people and I want them to know how I truly care about them. And if it comes to bite me, then it comes to bite me.

Yeah. And I'll deal with it then. Yeah. So Ed Lorraine Warren, you know, they're very different characters. but they to me at least in all the interviews we've watched and we're not done with this one yet because they're about to talk about the Annabelle doll which is what we have talked about with the conjuring and it's kind of the whole point of this to some degree and then we're going to talk about Amnibil and then we're going to get into our paranormal and ghost are they all demonic and should we even

try to communicate with these things should we even have any involvement at all with these spirits whatever these spirits may be but and Lorraine Warren to me in all the interviews I've watched seem very, I guess you can say, authentic. And although, you know, did they make money off of their experiences and of their career over 50 years? Yes. But, you know, if you're good at something or you have a talent and something, are you not going to try to monetize that?

I mean, that's what people do. That is literally what they do. If you're good at marketing or you're good at baseball or football. And everybody has talents in something. Yes. Are you not going to monetize that? And it's always weird because, like, if you try to monetize something in something that, you know, that is controversial or maybe some people don't agree with.

That's when people call you a grifter. But as long as you're doing the right thing or the thing that people are okay with, whether it's football or baseball or marketing or going to a job at a factory, that's okay. But as soon as you start monetizing off something, people are not okay with or especially, I guess you can say. And I think in the Christian United States, even though we're not necessarily a Christian country as much anymore.

but when you live in the United States and there are so many Christians around you and then you do start getting in the stuff like this, people are going to, I almost say, demonize you, right? They're going to act like you are a cultist. You're a, I felt like this already with our podcast. All right. So here is a little bit more of this interview of how the Annabelle doll came about. Listen.

I think one of the most famous would be Annabelle. This is a raggedy and doll that's made a. like thousands of other dolls, except that this doll was used in communication, almost like having a seance. A nurse had received the doll, 1971, as a present, a Christmas present from her mother. And the doll stands about three foot high, and she would take it to bed with her at night. That's common enough for girls to do. I take a pillow.

Some people take a doll. girls would like that, even 28-year-old ones. And after a few nights, she lived with another girl who was a nurse, both of them St. Hartford, or St. Or Hartford Hospital? Yeah, it was Hartford Hospital. And they were on the same shift, and so they worked together, they lived together, they shared the expenses. And one morning she got this idea to bring the doll from the bedroom into the kitchen.

where they were having breakfast, and she put it in a chair. And she said, oh, raggedy and here's going to have breakfast with us today, joking around. Okay, well, that was a joke. Then the next thing, the next thing, she brought it down again the next morning and the next morning. But the third morning, they're talking to the doll, and the arms of the doll are on the chair like this. suddenly they went up and onto the table. Now this didn't frighten them. This intrigued them to the extent that the one nurse said to the other one,

one of the nurses knows a medium. Let's ask her about this. I'll bet you there's a spirit in that doll. That's what they did. They asked this nurse about it and she said, yeah. She said, I know a woman who was a medium. I'll bring her over and we'll hold the seance. It was a joke.

Just a game. But it didn't turn out to be a game. turned out to be one of the most horrifying experiences they never have in their life. And I've talked with people just recently, as recent as two months ago, who know the two nurses. And even today, they don't like to talk about it. They'll never come to our lectures. They don't want to talk about Raggedy Ann Annabelle at all. So now the woman holds a seance, and she said, there's a spirit of a six-year-old girl in that dog.

who was killed in an automobile accident just outside of your apartment house here. Well, there was a six-year-old child by the name of Annabel who was killed, but God does not allow the spirit of a child to go into a doll. This was a demon who was posing as that little child to create sympathy to these two young women, which it did. Now this was no longer a doll. This was a child. They would take it for rides. They'd talk to it. They'd buy clothing for it, jewelry. They treated it just as though it was that little girl who was killed, Annabelle.

Now they were giving it a lot of recognition. Soon after the first seance, things would happen in their house. What we refer to as infestation, there would be knocking sounds. They'd see flashing lights in their bedroom in night shooting across the room. the bed would shake a little bit. It would get icy cold. They'd hear whispering, which we call magic whispering. Now, from time to time, these girls would change shifts. But they're getting a little scared now. So they decided to stay on the same shift all the time, 4 to 12.

They leave the doll in the bedroom. They'd come home after midnight, put the key in the door, unlock the door, and who do you think is standing there? the raggedy and doll standing there. Now that doll has flimsy legs. If you try to stand it up, you can't. But I've seen that doll stand.

I've seen a lot of things happen around that doll. Well, this still didn't scare them. But one of the fiancés and one of the girls was against all of this. He said, burn a doll, throw it away, get rid of it. It's evil. Well, he falls asleep one afternoon,

a Saturday. And the day, doll is in a chair not far from him, and the girls are cleaning up the apartment. He wakes up with a start. He says, my God, what a nightmare. He said, I dreamt that that doll was strangling me. He had marks on his throat. Was it psychosomatic? Well, let's see. He gets up, he looks at the doll in the chair, picks it up, and throws it right across the room. You're nothing but a rag doll. You couldn't hurt anyone.

With that, Tony, seven psychic slashes appear on his body. Wow. Now, we've seen these kind of slashes. We've filmed them. These slashes come from nowhere's. The blood came right through his shirt. The nurses witnessed this. Then a huge chair rolled across the room.

Pictures on the walls came off. Started smashing and breaking. Loud pounding sounds. Now they were all frightened. They called the high Episcopal can. in Hartford, Connecticut. He called Father Richard Nolan, an exorcist, and Father Nolan called us.

We went to the apartment. Exorcism was performed immediately over the people, the three people, and the apartment. I brought that dial back to my museum. Now, why would I have something like that in a museum? Evidence, proof. The skeptics, the atheists, the first thing they attack you with is,

is where's the evidence, where is the proof? This never happened. I not only have the dial, I have film, I have recordings, I have eyewitness accounts from credible people who have seen these phenomena happen in and around that doll. A priest comes to my home one day. Young fellow has his rectory right here in Connecticut. Ed, I'd like to take you in Lorraine

for a ride in my new car. Very proud of it. We went with him. When he took us back, he said, what about this dollar everybody's talking about? Because we had shown it on Channel 18, on a TV show we're on. Could I see it?

I understand it put slashes on people. I brought him into the museum. It's in a chair. He looks at it. Just like the guy in Hartford. He walks right over to it, never said a word, picked it up and threw it right across the room.

God is more powerful than a devil. I said, yes, Father, God is more powerful than millions of devils, but he wasn't. He found that out. Less than an hour later, driving home on Route 84, his brand new car went out of control. I know what he's talking about, because the same thing happened to Lorraine and I, when we talked about Amityville one time, on Route 84. You can't control the car. Half of his car was sheared off by a tractor-trailer truck.

He should have been killed. But he lived. God will only let the devil go so far. The last thing he remembers seeing was the image of that doll. Well, then a detective comes to our house. We're working on the murder of a little child. Lorraine often helps the police through her clairvoyance. I threw my knowledge of ritual magic murders.

After we through, he said, Ed, could I go out to the museum there, look around? Sure, I brought him out. Now, this is a homicide detective. You were a cop. These guys are tough guys. They're used to seeing Grazley sights, right? He looks around and he said, you know, of all the things in this building here, that doll there, I can't take my eyes off of it, the raggedy ann.

It was still in a chair. Just then, the phone rang. It was a personal call. I told him I'd be right back, not to touch anything in that building. Everything in there was unholy, unblessed. Well, I'm up there talking on the phone. I wasn't even there 10 minutes. When all of a sudden, I hear him coming up the stairs.

This guy is a big guy, 6'2 or 6'4 foot 3, over 200 pounds, all muscle, used to seeing greasy sights. He's shaking. He can't hardly talk. I thought he was having a heart attack. I sat him down. I was going to call an ambulance. There was no 911 then.

Call an ambulance, said, no, Ed. It's not that. I said, what's wrong? I just don't want to talk about it. He was embarrassed. Lorraine walked in. He looks at Lorraine. He said, I'll talk to Lorraine about it, but I don't want her to ever mention it again. She didn't have to. I knew what he did. I went back down into the building. Everything was knocked over. He had picked up the doll. He had picked up that inanimate object. Its aura mingled with his aura. And something so terrible occurred to that man, that he resigned from the police department three months later. But that's not the end. Someone's the end of the show.

We're almost out of time. Almost all the time. So you could quickly end that one. A group of college students came one day. One of them said there's nothing but a bunch of bunk. I don't believe in it. He went over to the raggedy end out, which is in case, knocking on it. He said, this doll can't do anything.

I dare it right now to put slashes on me. I put him out of the building. Less than three hours later, that boy was dead. dead. His girlfriend, who had been with him on a motorcycle, said he was laughing about the doll, smashed into a tree, head on, was killed instantly. His girlfriend was in a hospital for over a year. That's unbelievable. You don't challenge devils. I think we've got a picture of the raggedy in there. Yeah, I think we do somewhere here. All right, so there you go. And real quick, I just want to talk about the Raggedy Ann doll real quick. If it is the same Raggedy Ann doll, and they're talking about it was

standing on its legs, it would be standing a pillow. You know, have you guys seen those pillows with a little tiny white peblets? This very tiny, like, circular pellets, that's what these dolls were made of. They're very flimsy. So there is no way you could stand this doll up. Right. It just sat and it would barely sit. You'd have to, like, lean it against your pillow or something. There's no way it could stand on its own.

I just wanted to reference that real quick. If it's the same kind of raggedy and. all that I had. Yeah, I'm sure they were all made very similar. But, you know, to this point is what Ed says here, you don't mess with devils. Yeah. And you do, you find out. You F around and you find out, right, like the saying says. But, you know, the thing about this is, and I kind of, I guess I want to get into this now. Ed in the rain, we're always approaching these hauntings through a Catholic lens or a godly lens, right? So anything in any situation they went into, they approached it with God on their side fully and aware understanding the dangers of these hauntings, of these places that they

went to. There were many cases that Ed and Lorraine went to where they would show up at a house and these people would be like, hey, I'm hearing the sound in my attic or I'm hearing a sound in my basement. What do you guys think this is? I think it's haunted. I think it's haunted. They would go.

They would sometimes bring people in and they'd be like, no, this is nothing but pipes. This is a furnace. This is this. I mean, that's all you're hearing. And then they would leave. Yeah. And some of the cases, they're like, no. Many of the cases.

It's not really this. This is what's really happening. This is banging because of this. You know, so they didn't always go into every house and say, oh, yeah, this house was, you know, as a demon or whatever. Yeah. And so this was many of the cases that Ed Lorraine, you know, worked on or were a part of. The only difference, though, is that there were certain cases to where when they would walk into these houses, especially with their spiritual lens through the Catholic lens, they would almost fill it. you would immediately feel it.

You would start realizing that something evil is here. And in most cases, things are evil. To them, anything supernatural that wasn't from God was automatically suspect. So that's why they tied Annabelle, the possessed raggedy and all, not just to haunting, but to demonic infestation. The warrants taught the demons don't just appear in their true form. They often come in disguise as a child's spirit, an orb or a light, or something that looks harmless, something that wants to invite you in until it can actually possess you.

At first infest you, it eventually leads to oppression and then it leads to possession if you allow it to get that far. Now, many people, including Sherry, they report seeing bright lights or or herbs in the sky or in the woods or they have some type of supernatural paranormal experience to where they either are reacting or communicating with these things. and there have been many paranormal researchers sometimes interpret these as spirits, UFOs, interdimensional beings, or I guess energy manifestations. But Christians often skip that discussion entirely, and they just, you know, they automatically say, hey, it's demon.

In their worldview, it's not just clearly from God or angels. The only other category left is fallen angels or demonic spirits. So the Catholic Christian argument, Catholic exorcism theology, is built on the idea that Satan is the great deceiver. So when lights appear or a spirit presents itself as a child or something feels friendly that a church warns it could be bait. Demons allegedly lure people in by first appearing harmless and then continually escalating. This is the logic that was used by, you know, for example, the Annabelle doll.

The warrants argued that no spirit of a child was ever in the doll. It was a demon pretending to be a child to gain the trust of these nurses, of these women in this apartment. So the rule of thumb, obviously, in the Catholic religion, is that if it's a demon, you know, it seeks interaction with humans is probably not good and is probably wanting something from you, potentially wanting your body and your soul itself. And so Christians say don't mess with it. They believe curiosity is dangerous, opening communication with lights, or spirits, or even just to see what's out there opening a door that you might not be able to shut very easily or if at all. And so like 2 Corinthians 1114 says, Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

that is one of the verses. Deuteronomy 18, 10 through 12 says condemns divination, spirit communication, and witchcraft. And so Christians argue even if it looks positive, it's probably a trap and you should stay away from it. And so then the counter argument, obviously, and I think this is probably the way that Sherry is wanting to go with this, is that not everyone accepts a Christian framework. So, you know, here's some alternative takes. UFO E.T. Angel. So these orbs could be advanced craft or beings, not demons, right? I mean, if that, if it's all through a spiritual lens, then you either basically have good,

which is not very much as far as the spiritual realm on earth, mostly demons, because that's typically what the Bible talks about. The interdimensional theory, they could be neutral or even benevolent entities from another reality that we just have not figured out yet. Energy manifestation, they could be natural phenomena or consciousness-based energies, not evil at all. And so just because one system of belief like Catholic or Christian frames all of the unknowns as demonic doesn't necessarily mean that that is the only interpretation.

But even in the Christian religion, which I am not well versed in that, I'm just going to be honest with that. And I think most of you know that I'm not well versed in any religion because I don't feel like you should put God into one box of one religion. I think God is the creator of our universe. He is the creator of humans. He is the creator of all life. And so it's hard for me to put God into a box that fits a religion or one denomination. But if you think about the Christian religion, for example, there are many Christians that were prophets in the Bible that experience the same things like, for example, Lorraine's experiencing that I'm experiencing and many other just regular human beings.

And does that make you not a Christian or are you talking to demonic entities or you not? because if you think about the Bible, Joseph, Daniel, John Pilates' wife, all receive God's given dreams. Those are just some of them. You know, and like I said, I am not a religious scholar. I don't know much about the Bible. I know quite a bit, but, you know, I don't dive into the Bible like that. But I'm just saying why and how can Christians say, oh, you are diving into demonic spirits when it happens within the Bible. Yeah.

Well, I mean, so my point, too, is like even when we had our experience, and we've talked about this on other shows before, but when we had our experience by the river and these orbs, these bright, brilliant spotlight-looking things, two or three of a kind, I guess you can say, coming from 50 yards away just around the bush, there was no other logical explanation whatsoever because we literally went to this place, you know, two or three minutes later after they disappeared. and the first time they disappeared, it was because I said, I am not scared of you, and I am protected by Jesus Christ. And as soon as I said that, they disappeared. Yeah, but you don't know if that's because you said that or not. I mean, they might have disappeared because there's been a lot of other times we've gone. I've called them out. They have come out, and then they just disappear whenever. You know, it could have been a correlation.

It could have been in coincidence. It could have been because you said Jesus Christ. To me, I just don't believe that. that because I think God is bigger than just a religion. Yeah, I understand. But, you know, I get the religion aspect of it. First of all, I believe 100% in Jesus Christ. And I don't think that, you know, Jesus himself was about religion either, right?

Jesus was put in a box of religion. And I think that's, I think that's part of the problem is that he was put into a box of religion. And Jesus was not a religious person. Jesus says, I am the son of man. I am him. and then they created, I guess, in some ways, in large way, that's where the Christian religion came from.

But the reality of it is, is that I feel like to me anyways, and I could be completely wrong. I'm just saying my point of view. And what I was telling you earlier is that, like, for example, say that we were paranormal investigators and we went on some investigation to where there was someone that called us and said, hey, look, we have this old house we just bought. we are having some type of insane stuff happening. We're having marks on our body.

Maybe one of their family members just got murdered or died in some horrific accident once they moved into a certain place. Like basically all of the evidence is lining up to this place is haunted. What would worry me for, I guess for me, it's like it would worry me that you would open yourself up too much by going in one of these places to these things. to these things. Because if, for example, you say that like, if we believe in exorcisms, we believe in demonic possessions, there's a way that they got there. And when we talk about that the devil presents himself in disguise and the Bible talks about that often, he will present himself in a,

whether it be an inanimate object or a, or is a childlike ghost or something that makes you feel invited or maybe even a UFO, right? Maybe even a UFO. It's where you're, you're like, oh my God, that sounds so cool. What if I could talk to an alien or a UFO from another dimension? What if the devil is presenting himself in these ways to open, to get you to open yourself more up to him to where he can then bring himself more into you? And the unfortunate part of this is that if he does get into you, especially if you're not prepared to deal with this, because you're already opening yourself up to it. How are you going to get rid of it? Okay.

for one, I have traveled with God my whole entire life, and I think that is stronger than any religion. I have told you, even than God came to me in my dreams and told me to name my daughter faith. After I get it, took months and months to come up with all these amazing names that I wanted to name her, and I ended up having to name her faith because God told me to, and I'm not going to go against what God tells me to do. So knowing that, I have a very strong connection with God. just because I don't profess in Jesus, does it make it sound, does it open me up to demonic beings unlike, you know, you? So if we both went into a house and we were with demonic beings,

who says that you won't get possessed? I don't know. We could both if we open ourselves up. If we're even there for that reason to begin with. You know, it's like, it's like Ed said. But you said you're worried about me more than yourself. because you believe in Jesus. Okay.

But what I'm saying is God, to me, is the creator of the universe. And God is my protection. Yeah. You know, Jesus is your protection. God is my protection. But it's like Ed also said here, right? He said, look, God can kill and is more powerful than a thousand demons. But you are not.

And so that's what you have to remember. And I also think that's the reason why in the Catholic Church, they only have certain priests that are able to perform exorcisms. to actually get into that scene, that place, that room, that atmosphere, that aura, that whatever it is, they only allow certain people in because, you know, the, you are trained so heavily into how to, you know, X, X, whatever that word is, to get rid of it. To get rid of the demon, you're trained in this very methodical way to do this. And like just some random in here that maybe can communicate with demons or whatever these things are,

you're probably more likely to be the absolute best example of how demons can get in rather than how you can get demons out. But have you ever thought about this, that God has been training me to deal with these things since I was a child? Because I've been dealing with it since I was a child. I've had all these things. Wait a minute. I'll let you finish. Okay. I'm not saying anything.

I think that, you know, because I've had experiences with UFOs and ghosts are paranormal activity. in my life, who says that God did not put that into my life? Even think about the third eye, the panera, what's it called, the panarial gland or whatever? Panera bread gland. What's that thing called? Paniel gland. Yeah, maybe I'm able to use more of that than you're able to use.

Maybe, yeah, you're right. Maybe I was born to use that thing. And, you know, it's not like I went on YouTube and studied how to do it. It's not like I'm trying to go to these things. This comes to me. And it comes to me in ways of good, bad, and ugly all ways. Okay. I'm not, I don't tempt anything.

It comes to me. Just for like a matter of fact, well, I mean, I'm just saying it's been happening to me since I was a little girl. Okay. What if it's scientific? What if I'm able to use more of my brain than you are? What if God gave me a special gift? just like you have a special gift with music.

You can sing. I can't carry a tune. I can't carry a note. I can't sing at all. I'm good with art. You're good with computers. We all have special gifts and abilities. What if God gave you the gift of singing and being smart analytically and gave me a gift of sensing things beyond our understanding?

First of all, you're really good at art, like painting wise. So you're good at that as well. And look, I'm not disagreeing. I mean, I understand 100% that I'm not on your level when it comes to your ability to bring these things in, whatever this is. I'm saying my worry to from my perspective is, you know, as I said about people to where I feel like I know people really well. And I want to protect you in certain cases is the exact same feeling I get with this. And although I understand that your ability is to be able to bring some of this stuff out. And guys, what I'm telling you is, and there's been people on our telegram when they go to our telegram.

We kind of talk about some of these experiences. We've even been on video when some of these things have happened. And some of our telegram users have seen these or these lights kind of come about when we were there. But, you know, and I told them all. I said, look, guys, if you were here with us in this particular situation, you would also see these things. It's not like it's just Sherry seeing this. It's not like she's crazy. Right.

I'm not imagining it. But I guess my point is, at what point do you go too far if you don't understand or realize what it is and you think that you have it all under control? Like what if I wake up or don't wake up one day dead because you murdered me in my sleep because you got finally possessed? I feel like I have the strength of God to protect me from that. Just because I don't have, you know, I don't proclaim Jesus as God, doesn't mean I don't have God on my side. You know, and there, like I said, they're not all just glorious, awesome things. Some things are bad. I have witnessed murders in my dream.

I have also fought with demons in my dreams and woke up biting Chad. I mean, there's not, you know, I can't say it's all great things. But that's why it is real. and it really happens, but I'm not putting myself out there to make it happen. It comes to me. Yeah. To me, this is a question about spirituality and science. And what if those two can be combined in some way?

You know, it's like when we talked to Ashton Forbes about orbs, could it be one, you know, A, B, C, or all of the above? What if it's all of the above? What if there is, you know, some good coming? from what I experienced. What if there are bad things attacking me? Or what if it is in the middle where it's all of it? Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying there's not good things out there potentially that people can

communicate with because it happened in biblical days. The same way that bad things and bad spirits also happen in biblical days. And I do find it so interesting and strange and weird to where it's like now if you even try or even get into that realm at all. And I'm not saying witchcraft because that's a whole different thing. but I'm saying like if you have this ability or you have certain abilities as a I'm not even going to say a medium but whatever it is that has this a keen sense of something else something beyond what physical reality the third and fourth dimension is whatever that is um it's just

like people want to put you in a in a in a kind of a basket of hey you're evil your witch your your witchcraft you know you're you're practicing sorcery and you know back in the day keep in mind the Salem witch trials and all the times that all of these women that were put on trial and then hung because they believe these women were practicing witchcraft and we don't know 100% in every one of those cases whether or not you know the Salem witch trials and and all this stuff was 100% legit that they were just witches and they were practicing sorcery there's conspiracies all around that as well and I think part of it is is that the ruling class during that time and there was certain women that had this higher connection to something that they were communicating with and in some cases maybe even called in demons. I don't know.

I don't know necessarily about certain things, but they literally gave these women death. You know, they hung them. And there is a huge conspiracy behind all that. Like were they all just Satanist? were they witchcraft completely or did they have some other sense of other dimension or other reality that maybe others did not and you know especially back then they look at people like that and they say well they're demons we got to kill them we have to murder them and so you know that's why it's still to this day a touchy subject now I'm not saying that like all psychics are

real because I think there's a lot of full of shit people out there I agree I agree but the question is is that know, even for the paranormal, the investigators, there are so many people that are grifters in that realm as well. I mean, you think about how many YouTube channels there are that do paranormal investigations. Think about travel channel, ghost hunters, and where they make millions and millions and millions of dollars off of what they supposedly do and what they encounter. You know, it's one of the things I was thinking about the other night when we had mentioned or just kind of talked about the idea of like, hey, we should start going to some haunted places

and especially bringing you just to see like what would come out because, you know, and I'm kind of worried about doing that rather than finding some YouTuber that's making, you know, millions of dollars off of these millions of views videos. Like if I went with one of them, I'd be like, I'm probably good. But if I go with you and like a haunted place and we're doing stuff, that's when I think stuff would get weird. And the reality of that is, is like in the conjuring when the, when the police officer shows up And he's like, no, I'm good, bro.

You know, he's like this kind of built guy. And the guy looks at him and he's like, you know, you can't shoot ghost, right? And that's kind of my thinking. Like, I can bring a gun. I can do all this stuff. But that is not what the worry is. The worry is that it attaches to your soul and to your person and to your life. And then something crazy happens because they can make certain crazy things happen.

And maybe God allows certain things crazy to happen because he does not like what you're already doing because it talks about it in the Bible. do not practice witchery or witchcraft and talk to spirits. And so that's the danger there. But then also you got to look at it from the Catholic side of stuff to where there are priests that do exorcisms. But these people are held in high power. They're approved through the Vatican. You know, does that, you know, even though the Vatican, I mean, we could go for years talking about that.

The Vatican, I think is a very sketchy place. I think they, in large part, control a lot of the world through power and control. and I think they use religion to control the world. I understand what you're saying, right? I completely understand what you're saying. The argument against like if we go into a haunted house, like I shouldn't be labeled a demon because I go into this house expecting or communicating with something that maybe I can.

Well, let me ask you this. Sorry, this is a random question, but like what is your purpose? If you go in a haunted house, Sherry, or what is your purpose to you go into the river or certain places where you're calling these things? They show up. What is the purpose of this? What are you trying to achieve from these interactions? Well, I think when we go to the river and I call these things, I think it's just supernatural. And I'm like, holy shit, it worked and they came.

And I didn't have to do, like, I don't do any rituals or spells or anything like that. I'm just thinking my mind. I'm like, hey, guys, I'm here. You know, come to me, friends. Let's see you or whatever. or let's see your little cute lights or whatever. And I don't ever feel threatened by these things. But if we were to go into like a haunted hotel or a haunted, you know, place, you know, I guess my expectation would be, you know, it'd be cool to see stuff like that.

But it would be kind of scary because in my opinion, I think I see both light and dark, if that makes sense. I see both. I don't see all good. I don't see all bad. I see all of it. Well, I can tell you, like, when we've seen these bright, huge orbs in some, you said little things, but we're talking about, you know, two times, two occurrences where we saw huge spotlights and threes. They were triangle like things. And this was not in the sky.

We're talking about 50 yards from us on the other side of a bush that appeared and was moving towards us. And then as, you know, as I started kind of freaking out and talking about Jesus, they disappeared. But, you know, to me, I did not feel good at all because it was a realization in my mind, especially the second time. You are freaked out. Well, the first time I thought there's got to be like homeless people that have made their way in here, like way off the road, whatever. And so my first concern was I was like, shit, I don't have my gun with me. And if these people are shining lights on us to try to see who we are or whatever. And then so I told Sherry, I was like, Sherry, get in the golf cart right now because we're leaving.

I literally went and got you, put you in a golf cart. And then so we kind of, we stayed there for a minute. I said something about Jesus. They left. And as soon as that happened, we went 50 yards in that direction, right where we saw them. And this was not some kind of, you know, what do you call it? Not some type of, yeah, this was not some type of illusion or something like that. It was literally right there.

It was so obvious where it was. And when we went there, there was nothing there. So the second time, the second time we saw this, actually I think there was three times. but the second time we saw this, these big lights, you know, I still didn't feel good about it. I think I did still say something about Jesus. I'm protected by Jesus. They didn't leave immediately at that time either. But I just did not feel good about it all.

And I think it's that when you're seeing these things, especially the second time, after the first time you knew that it wasn't homeless people. It wasn't homeless people with huge spotlights. It probably cost $500 at Bass Pro Shop, which how the hell would they get $500 spotlights? But the second time I was like, oh shit, like this is really happening again. And the reality of this is, is like, it's really happening. And I think, I think what feared me was the inability to do something about it, I guess, necessarily, even though I felt like I could be protected. This time it was a little different.

Maybe it was, maybe it was just a fact that the second time I realized what it was. Yeah. And I didn't necessarily 100% come out as strong. as I did the first time about Jesus. And maybe that's why it kind of hung around longer. But I was just thinking, I was like, this is reality. This is actually happening. So what the hell is this?

And your mind goes through so many different things. And so now it's no longer, well, I can protect us with a gun or the golf cart or we can get out of here. I felt like it was a real chance that like this thing could attach to us. And just leaving where we were was not necessarily good enough. and then obviously the same thing happened where we had your friends down and saw the lights come out

golf cart completely melted a battery it died we had to push it to two miles back phone died it was a complete shit show that time that was the third time we went well and we've also seen them in our backyard Chad but it was way like it looked like outer space yeah for sure

when we saw orbs that were one that go into three into a triangle position yeah and do you notice that there is a significance with the number three. We see threes a lot. We see digits of threes a lot. Yeah.

And we see like other numbers, 555. I don't want to say the one, you know, I'm not going to say that. The four numbers. That's not a good thing. I do see those too. But those are angel numbers is what I was researching. That's what we've heard. Yeah.

And I think it's all correlated. And to me, I just don't feel like it's all demon, devil. like I said before, I think it's a combination. And I could be at risk, I guess, because I am open to the light in the dark. But I feel safe because I know that I have God. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't feel fearful of any of it.

Yeah. But so the same question, I guess I'll ask as well as like, you know, when I called out Jesus and I said, I'm protected by Jesus. Yeah, that was one time. Well, yes. Well, two times technically. And it took me longer. I guess a second time for whatever reason because I was just kind of really and trying to figure out what the hell is this again.

But, you know, when are you planning on calling out to God or Jesus in this time? Like, like how far does it get until you do? Because that's the question. Like for me, it was automatic, especially the first time because I even though I was like, well, maybe it's like homeless people. But then I was like, I don't think it is because there's no way they're there. So I called out Jesus. Second time I was, I was like, okay, I know this isn't homeless people. I was reeling in my mind.

and then I called out Jesus and I was like, I'm protected by Jesus finally. And then it went away. But like, when would you call out Jesus? And would it like, would it matter if you call it Jesus versus God? And, you know, I mean, there's all these kind of theological questions to this. Yeah. I get it totally. But like, but how far do you let these things get to you?

Because the problem is Sherry with you is. And I think this is literally the problem. And this is what I'm scared about is the fact I think that you would let it get into you before you would even try to do anything because like you would think it is so all inspiring and amazing until it literally was in you in your house in your life completely and that's called possession yeah but that's what scurries me number one how do you know if it's possession number two how do you know if it's devils number three i've experienced this again i'm going to tell you since i was a child and i don't know if you guys realize that like even when i was growing up in my house

My house was haunted with something. I don't know if it was good, bad, or both. But the only people in our house that experienced these things were children, meaning my brother and I experienced them when we were growing up at the house. I moved out, moved to South Carolina. My brother, after my parents left the house, my dad died, my mom went to Chicago. Brother moved into the house with his kids. His kids experienced it. And even his wife, that everyone is in that house that were of,

adolescent age has experienced something in that house. Now, does it mean it's attached to the house? I don't think so because when I moved to South Carolina, I experienced stuff in this house. Yeah. Is it attached to you? I think it's attached to you. Is it a demon?

Is it a devil? Or is it your ability to see past what normal people can see? Well, let me ask you this too. Is it an opening of your third eye? So if you knew that these things were demons, what would you do? Would you react differently? Would you still go and try to communicate? No, I think if I were fearful, I would ask God to protect me.

That's the only thing I could do. But you would still interact with them. Well, I haven't. I mean, okay, there's been times, Chad, in our home that even our house, that I've been scared. When we, you know, we were downstairs, we heard the footsteps, you know, on the steps, we heard the toilet lid slam. We heard all the clock falling, all that stuff. Pictures breaking.

Yes. We even, oh, God, when we have. had the picture broke. We thought it was the front window and somebody was breaking in. Yeah, it was a shattering in the middle of night. Shattered our whole front window. We're in the closet. Chad's getting his gun.

We call 911. This is how serious it was. We had probably- Well, we were going through some stuff at that time too, which we were going to, but yeah. How many cops do you think showed up? Probably 20. Yeah, it was a lot.

I'm not kidding. And we, like, I was frantic. I thought somebody broke in the house. I was very, very scared. Yeah, it was obvious. Get in the closet. Right. now so we're hiding in the closet chat has his gun i'm on the phone i'm not hiding the closet i was

at the door i was at the door trying to figure out what was going on i cleared the house before they got there no because you didn't even see the broken window that there was no broken window no but i went through the house no i did not see the window because i went around i looked in the i looked out the front of the house looked in the windows didn't see a window because that's what it sounded like the front window broke like i i looked there and i even because you came to the bedroom door and i said there's no window broke i was whispering i turned all the lights off in the house because, you know, by the way, guys, if you ever think someone is outside your house or something, don't be walking around your house with all the lights on

because that's just showing them exactly where you are. The first thing I did was turn the lights off in that way because I know the house, right? So if someone's breaking in, they're not going to know the house like you do. Yeah, as well as you. So I turned lights off was walking around the house, the perimeter. I went to the back door, looked out the back door, didn't see anybody there. I didn't for whatever reason go in the living room necessarily in this particular case because I was like, what's the point? I could see the window area. But I didn't notice.

And it was dark, by the way. Yeah. That's why I didn't see the glass. Got there and they cleared our whole house and like, looking at us like we're crazy. There's no shattered window. There's nothing. They cleared the entire house. And then when they left and we turned the lights on, it was a shattered frame.

It was two. Picture frames. It was two. They had fell off the mantle. Well, listen, but you got to make something very clear. So there were two pictures that fell. One was Faith. And another one was another one.

Her 12 year old picture. Yes. And I think one was my dad. Yeah. If I'm not mistaken. I don't remember what it was. But anyways, both them fell. But the weird thing was about 20 feet across the living room, there was glass yards in the wall.

Yeah. So. And they didn't. The cops never even saw that. No. When they cleared our house. They never even saw like what made the disturbance. They're like, you guys are just crazy.

Yeah. basically yeah it was weird um i mean there were actually things that happened during that time because of what the stuff we were going through that wasn't you know any any type of paranormal or something but that particular instance was definitely paranormal and we also had something you know there was a lot of stuff that was kind of happening during that time but there was obviously no way that what we were going through that time created this and it was like 1 30 in a morning right i mean and it was you know just the most random stuff and the interesting thing about it was is like how hard the pictures had to have they slammed

yeah they slammed on the floor to the point where it literally shot glass into the wall I'm talking about shards of glass were stuck in our wall 30 feet 20 feet away from where the actual pictures supposedly fell that's just damn near impossible and it was multiple shards it was almost like it was slung into the wall like have you have you ever saw like the the visual representation of what a tornado can do if it gets a two by four swirling and it goes through like it can go through your freaking car right you know that's literally what the force of this was through our wall loud and it was scary and when you're like in a dead sleep and you hear that i mean that is really scary i knew for sure somebody was in our house yeah i just knew we had our door closed the bedroom was on the other side

of the wall but it's just hard to hear stuff in this house because it's you know it's a decent distance from different rooms. So, and we usually have our TV on. I think it was on that night because as soon as it happened, I jumped up. I had light. I remember I had light. So the TV was on. And I had my gun, got you.

I literally threw you off the bed, I think. Yeah, you did. You're like, get in the closet down. Yeah. But we were going through a lot of weird stuff then too. But it's also, you know, even like 10 years ago, we could walk down the stairs and video the stairs and see orbs following us. Do you remember that?

mostly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we've done that at the river and there were like little tiny orbs in the video that you can see clear as day. Same thing. Same thing. The night we woke up upstairs in the bedroom upstairs and there was, I don't know if you were awake or something. I don't, I don't know if you even saw this, but the night we woke up and there was like this black figure that was walking through. No, I never saw the black figure. That was like three or three 30 in the morning. And I remember I woke you up. It was like Sherry. Did you just like there's there's some black figured to just walk through this room. I was freaked out. I thought I was dreaming, but I was, I was awake because I remember you remember it. And I saw it leave the room as well. Now,

this room in particular that we're talking about is the haunted room. And we say the haunted room because it seems like all of the haunted stuff that happens in this house comes from that room. Yeah. It comes in and out of that room. I'm telling you, even my best friend, when she comes to stay with us, that was like the guest room at the time. And she had just a bad feeling about the room. So she is like, I'm not sleeping in the guest bedroom. I am sleeping on the couch. I just don't have a good feeling. But she had really good senses like we do as well.

Yeah. And, you know, then one of my good friends died. You know, he died in a motorcycle accident. He used to record music actually in our studio here. And I remember he left his jacket. Remember that? He left his sports coat. And he left it on the back of the couch.

And I remember because I was like, okay, he called me one night. He's like, you know, hey, I left my sports coat there. and it was like a nice sports coat and say hey it's on the back of the couch everything is cool we kept it there because we're just like whatever we'll leave it there on the back of the couch of the studio doesn't matter i was like you'll come and get it whenever and then so a week or two later he dies in this motorcycle accident right and so i told shiria it's like hey we i got to go up and you know his jacket's still here and i went up there we both did his jacket was not there right they're like where to hell his jacket go and then it sounds crazy but then like six months later

It was like a long time. We were so confused to where this jacket went. Six months later, we go into that spare room, the room we're talking about where all the ghost activity comes from. And I'm like hanging clothes in there because we put some clothes in there and we don't have room for in some other places. And in the middle of the closet, his jacket's hanging there on a hanger. And we didn't do this.

No one did this. I mean, for sure, 100% positively. And then also the same day, we found his guitar pick. Yeah, out in the yard. Out in the yard. Like deep, kind of deep down in the sand. Yeah,

because that was when we were starting the, I guess the landscaping in the backyard. That was when we're digging everything up. And like deep down, his pick was there. Yeah, it was like three to six inches down, I guess,

like that much. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And we found his pick. Yeah. I mean, we've just experienced really crazy things. And I don't know if it's because of me

or if it's because of Chad or because it's both of us or if it's science. or if it's spiritual, but it's definitely something that happens. Yeah. So I guess the reason why when I, for those that do not follow us on social media and how dare you not do that, you know, but we had said, I said on Facebook and I said on their Instagram and our Instagram is kind of a little bit, like a little bit blowing up right now. You guys should go follow us over there.

But I said on Instagram and Facebook, I said, you know, the other day I said, we want to start investigating haunted paranormal places. and the main reason I want to do this is I just want to have Sherry in some of these places. And I know that that is, to me, I feel like that's dangerous. And that was one of the things that Ed, if you go into their deep story about like how Lorraine was so in tune with some of this stuff. It was he thought she was going to get killed. Right. You know, he thought that like this is too much on her, especially when you're in this realm.

You are, you are filling this. It's becoming a part of you. But she had a ton of faith. you know that that was what was her grounding thing that was what yeah got her through it do you not think I have a ton of faith and I am very spiritual I do think you have a ton of faith even though I am not into religious or manmade religion I'm extremely spiritual yeah for sure no I agree all right so um I do want to actually now that we talked about Travis I and I think we've only done this on one other episode I do want to play Travis Staten's music out to this show because as we said Travis

was a great friend of mine. And I've told his story before. I will never not tell a story as long as I live. You know, I'm not going to tell it every day. But Travis was someone that was, number one, a very, very talented musician. And someone that like when we didn't have the abilities to be musicians like we did.

I mean, we're talking about 10 to 15 years ago to where if you wanted to be a musician, you had to really work your outside and you still do today, but I'm just saying everything was harder. Right. especially with how things are so, I guess, easier with AI and all this stuff.

Travis was very talented. He, his entire life was music. And also Travis was one of the greatest party throwers. Anybody could ever have a friend to have. I mean, we used to have some of the best parties at his house. And he was a typical rock star kind of.

I mean, he never made it, right? I mean, he was never like huge on the scene. But he was the guy that everybody wanted to go to his parties. He was the coolest. guy, the nicest guy. He was very much like Sherry, like empathy and love and caring. And,

and although, yeah, he did party. Um, one day, I remember it was about a week before he died. He called me. I was sick as hell in the bathtub because I couldn't breathe. Talking to him. I'll never forget. Yeah, I couldn't even breathe because I was so sick. And I remember he called me. He said, hey, bro, he's like, I've lost a lot of friends lately because he said, I've decided to change my music. And, and I changed, I'm changed my music for God. I want to represent God. I want to, I want to glorify God. And I feel like if I have a I should be using it for him. And he's like, I got a message.

I got a, I got this premonition. I got whatever it is. I've prayed about it. I've lost a lot of friends since I've kind of said this. And I was like, dude, I'm proud of you, man. Like, that's awesome. And like, that's absolutely. Like, if you feel that way, go for it.

I'm here for you. We love you. Any way we can help. We'll do it. And so it was a week later. He died. And, you know, I'll never forget Travis. And, and, you know, to that point, Travis was extremely talented.

So we're going to play you out. out with Travis Staten's song. And like I said, if you guys want to go support him after his death, I think it'll be awesome. He, his entire life with his music. And so here we go. Guys, until next time, we love you. Peace out.