Investigate Earth Conspiracy Podcast - Joe Rogan Hal Puthoff Interview Breakdown | Remote Viewing & ESP

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

In this episode, we break down Joe Rogan’s mind-bending interview with physicist and former CIA contractor Dr. Hal Puthoff — the man behind some of the U.S. government’s most secretive programs on remote viewing and non-human intelligence. What if psychic spying is real? What if it’s been used for decades by military intelligence? And what if… it’s not a new phenomenon at all? We explore how the Bible might contain ancient references to remote viewing-like abilities, prophetic visions, and unexplained knowledge that mirrors what Puthoff and others claim is possible today. Is there a hidden link between spirituality, consciousness, and extraterrestrial contact? We go deep on the science, the history, and the conspiracy theories — and let you decide what’s real.

Hello and welcome to Investigator with Podcast. I'm your host Chad alongside my beautiful wife, Sherry. On tonight's episode, we're digging into the recent Joe Rogan interview with Dr. Hal Putoff, a name that pops up any time you start talking about the secret government programs, psychic phenomena, and the search for extraterrestrial life. This isn't just another UFO chat. Houtov helped pioneer remote viewing research for the CIA, and what he shares in this interview could reshape how we think about consciousness, surveillance, and what's really. out there. Even if half of what he says is true, the implications are massive for science, for national security, and for our place in the universe. Let's get into it, guys. Welcome to the show.

It is May the 4th, 2025. May the 4th be with you. If you guys go check out the White House's recent ex post. It does have Trump as a bodybuilder. It looks like a Luke Skywalker bodybuilder. Very, very interesting, I must say. So he's been the Pope, and now he is a Luke Skywalker. Yeah, whoever is in control of his White House X accounts or Facebook or basically all the other social media. I don't know if you should give them an award or fire them. Oh, I think you should give him an award. And I bet it's barren. It could be.

It absolutely could be. But guys, on tonight's show, we're going to go into detail about this Joe Rogan and Hal Putoff interview. Now, for those that do not know who How Putoff is, I'm going to let him say this in the intro of this episode as far as what he talks about, kind of his background. his experience, what he kind of went through to get to where he is. I mean, he is a world-renowned, I guess you can say physicist, but he's a lot of things, electrical engineer. And then he started thinking about consciousness itself. That was the one thing he said he didn't know a lot about was human biology and our consciousness.

And he started to wonder how the two connected. Is electrical engineering and the human binom or biology or consciousness connected in some way, shape or form. And I think after this episode, we're going to break down. We're not going to talk about the entire interview. We're not going to play the entire interview. We're going to play the most important parts, especially about remote viewing. Because likely tomorrow, we're going to have an episode on the Immaculate Constellation,

which is a new whistleblower that came out. He's not a new whistleblower, but his name is Matthew Brown. He's had security clearances in the government. And so there was this, I guess, Immaculate Constellation program. or I guess event that happened to where he just so happened to come across that. He wrote a paper on it or a report. And so we may be talking about that tomorrow. We've not talked about UFOs and this kind of interdimensionality stuff in a while.

So we figure it's about time. Yeah. And I'm really excited because you guys know how I love stuff about psychic things and remote viewing. This is all up my alley. Well, you know, and Sherry, we've talked always about, you know, we've always had this debate. Are psychics real or are they not? I've always thought that it was a bunch of BS. Anytime that you would see someone on television,

whether you remember all the psychics that used to go on Oprah or Dr. Phil or you name one of the daytime talk shows. They always would bring on these psychics. They would go into the crowd and then they would be allegedly communicating with dead loved ones or whatever. Now, I do think remote viewing, which is what we're going to be talking about tonight, and psychic abilities are completely different. I truly do believe this. I'm not sure that if you're a great remote viewer, can you also be a good psychic? Because as Dr. Hal Putoff explains in this interview, it's not necessarily like you're telling someone,

hey, we need to know what is in that building 500 miles away. We want you to try to think about it and tell us what's in this building. And one of the things Hal says here is that it's not like you're thinking about something. It's not like you're thinking about this building and these images are coming into your mind. it's actually different than that. And there's actually methods on how you do this to the point where when the CIA actually came to Dr. Hal Putoff, once he started writing some papers on some of this stuff, they eventually said, look, we want you to train our intelligence officers, whether it be Navy intelligence, whether it be CIA guys, whatever. But the United States and our government are not the only ones to know how to do remote viewing. That's for sure.

And I wonder if they have tried. And I think he did talk about that they have done it with psychics too. Yeah, they have. Yeah, they've tried everybody. But the very interesting thing about this without giving away too much is that they kind of found that it's not just people that are special that were able to do this. Anyone can. Almost anybody can do this. And the bigger question to this whole thing is how and how is this even possible?

Because there's various things. Obviously, we've talked in the past about, you know, if psychics are real or if you can remote view. My theory on that has always been, well, maybe it's brainwaves. Maybe it's the same way we've talked about in the past where how you see Wi-Fi. You know, our computer that we're on right now, everything that we're talking through is connected through Wi-Fi. We don't have any actual cores that are connected to the router that then goes into the, you know, the cable lines and so on. It's all through Wi-Fi signal. You can't see the signal coming through the air, but you do see the result of the signal once it reaches your computer or your telephone, right?

And so I'd always thought, well, maybe there was a way that if someone could figure out how to manipulate those waveforms through air, then maybe you could be able to tap into that waveform and be able to view something in different scenarios or places. But what Howell says here is it doesn't seem that's actually the case. Yeah. And I, to your, the contrary to your point, I believe in all those psychics out there. I believe in Sylvia Brown and the girl from New York and that guy that's, he's really good. That does all the famous stars. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think that it's very believable to me.

I feel like it sounds crazy, but I feel like everyone has a little bit of that ability. It's how much of your mind or your brain you tap into. Yeah, for sure. And so maybe it is different than remote viewing, but I think it has to do with tapping into your brain and how much brain power you. are actually using. Yeah. Well, we also know that, and we know this for sure, that dogs and animals and certain animals around the world, they have different senses than we do.

And oftentimes dogs, especially dogs, can sense, you know, storms that are coming in, tornadoes or violent weather that's coming in. But also, there has been history of dogs being able to alert to their owners about an upcoming heart attack or cancer or various diseases that may be in the owner's body. This has been proven throughout history. Yeah. And do you not think that's kind of like a psychic ability? In some way, I believe.

I mean, there's some things you could explain. Like, for example, maybe the thunderstorm stuff is because of the pressure change. And so the dog may be more sensitive to the pressure changes than we are. You know, as far as the disease and all this stuff, I don't, I don't. That's hard to explain. I don't know. It's almost like they can smell it out. It's almost like when you have the drug sniffing dogs at the airports or when they come and search your car or whatever, it's almost that kind of ability.

but those dogs have to be trained in it. Yeah. Well, but it's also too, I mean, I'm not saying every dog knows how to do that or will alert people for that. But also, if you think about like heart attacks, there has been people that said, man, their dog was driving them crazy for two or three days before a major heart incident or maybe they had a massive heart attack and this dog would not leave them alone. They would oftentimes lay on their chest or in a certain area.

They would be sniffing it or licking it almost like they were trying to get the person to take them outside. But every time they'd put them down or do this, you know, they wanted something else. They wanted something else. Uh-oh. I think I have all kinds of stuff wrong with me. No. No, your dog is always on me trying to get me to do something.

Well, your dog is just obsessed. And I think you're obsessed with the dog. So I think it's just, you know, I think y'all play games with each other. But I know he played games of you because, you know, at night, especially 1130, 12 o'clock at night. We're trying to go to sleep. And then he wants anything but what you're going to give him. If it's water, he don't want that. If it's a bone, he don't want that.

If it's food, he doesn't want that. If it's down or out, he doesn't want that. But he's going to continue to bother hell out of you. Yeah. And what he does, he just scratches me constantly until I do something. I'm like, what do you want, Maverick? And finally, I don't know, Chad spanks him once in a while. And I'm like, don't spank the dog.

I just pop his little butt. And I say, sit down. But he doesn't listen to that either. I mean, there's no way. Maverick is just a very not well-behaved puppy. We'll put it that way. He's not a puppy. He's five years old.

but sure he's my puppy yeah for sure but also by the way i wanted to mention out of control by zoro and lupus nocto that's actually the intro song so those that ask that is the music and before we get into this also guys we do have an ex we have facebook instagram we have all the social medias please go follow us if you can help us the best way you can possibly help us to share in our episodes with your friends family or whoever wants to listen this will definitely be a very interesting episode as well and as i said at the beginning we're not going to play the full joe rogan and put off interview. I do encourage you guys to go listen to it in its entirety. But in particular, we do have to break this part down. Also, wherever you listen, giving us a five-star rating really,

really does help us. And it helps the show grow. That would be also very much appreciated. So right before we actually started this episode, Sherry was like, hey, on my paper that I'm going to hide from you. I'm going to draw something. And I want you to try to remote view it. And she gave me like 20 chances. It was not even close and any of those chances. Well, and two, when we're doing the podcast guys all the time, I'm scribbling, drawing, and I usually draw flowers, palm trees, things like that. So that was, you know, his guess.

Yeah, it was based on what I draw in the past. Yeah. So I was actually thinking from memory and or imagination is what you were drawing. And I drew a snowman. Yeah. And he said, oh, you did say car or two. Yeah, it's a car. But also I drew something that she did not guess, but it was

pretty funny. I'm not even going to say what I drew. But there's there's no way that she was going to guess that. I'm going to say it was a private part. And I said, and I said to him, did you write I love you? So that could have been close to remote viewing, Chad. Oh my gosh. Here we go. I love you in a private part. That kind of goes together. Okay. Anyways, guys, we're going to go ahead and get into the beginning of this interview. We're going to cut in as we start hearing some about this remote viewing, but also in particular, what they did with plants is insane. We'll get to that in just a second. Here you go. But the weird stuff actually began kind of by absolute accident.

At the time, I was involved at Stanford University, getting my Ph.D. I was just doing cool things. I had invented a broadly tunable infrared laser, one of the first of its kind, even got a patent as a graduate student. Wow. And co-authored with my thesis advisor, a textbook, graduate-level textbook, Fundamentals of Quantum Electronics, published in English, French, Russian, and Chinese. So I was on a cool role just doing the normal physics kinds of things. But interestingly enough, once I was there writing a graduate level textbook, I realized, you know, there's something I don't know.

And that is, what about consciousness? What about living things? I mean, it's still just atoms and molecules all the way down? We just don't know about it, or are there some additional fields or whatever? So it turned out I came across some publications by a polygraphic. expert who taught polygraph to the CIA and FBI and so on. And one day on a lark, he connected his polygraph up to his plants. And he saw signals coming out that look like what do you see out of people.

And then he decided to threaten the plant like he would a person, and he got a big response. Whoa. And so he then went on to connect up a couple of plants to polygraphs, and he would find that if he affected one, the other one would respond. So I thought, okay, well, maybe this is some new thing. fields that we don't include in our physics. So I came up with what, for me, with just a pure physics experiment.

I was going to grow some algae culture, split it up, put half of it at a laser-linked site far away, and zap the local culture and see if it responded, and I can measure velocity propagation, so on. So I sent that off to this polygraph guy, Cleve Baxter, is his name. And so he said, well, that'd be a cool experiment. Well, here's one of these things where your life takes a lot of,

left-hand turned totally a random. He goes to a cocktail party in New York City. And there, he runs into Ingo Swann, who turned out to be so-called psychic famous artists, but a fellow that did remote viewing, so-called. And so he invited him overdo to his lab and said, see if he could affect the plants and so on. While he was there, he saw my... write-up about the experiment I proposed, which for me is just a pure physics experiment.

And so he then wrote me a letter and said, well, if you're mentioned the borderline between animate and inanimate physics, why deal with algae culture? They can't tell you anything. You should be dealing with somebody like me. Wow. I mean, I couldn't care less about dealing with, quote, a psychic or whatever. But attached to his letter, he had a big report that had been generated at City College in New York. where he'd done some experiments where he would raise and lower the temperatures of sensitive temperature measuring devices across the lab.

So I read that, and I said, well, that's pretty interesting. So just an alark, by this time I headed over to Stanford Research Institute to do my laser work. So anyway, I invited him for a weekend just to see what else he could do. And, of course, I talked to all my physics colleagues and said, oh, my God, these are. These guys are all frauds and charlatans. You better know what you're doing. Well, it turns out that I had a great experiment for him because we had an experiment set up at Stanford that was a very sensitive quantum chip inside of electrical shielding, inside of magnetic shielding, inside of superconducting shielding, completely acoustically isolated from the environment. No way anything on the outside could affect that little chip.

they were only looking for quarks and stuff like that. So anyway, I brought him over the lab. I said, remember that thing you did with the thermisters there at City College in New York? Well, this is sort of like that in steroids. And so he said, okay, well, I'll see what I can do. Well, it turned out he generated all kinds of signals in that little quantum chip. And, of course, a graduate student whose life depended on this not being, you know, affected by anything outside. I said, maybe there's some bubbles in the hydrogen line or something, something.

But no, he was able to do it. But what was most interesting was, and I asked him, well, how did you know what to do? He said, well, I didn't know what to do, so I just looked inside, looked inside through all this shielding. And he drew a diagram of what was inside there that had never been published. And he said, well, this is when I put my attention on it. That just happened by accident. So, okay, so I'm going to pause this for a second. And Joe's about to respond because this is huge.

And for those that might be a little bit confused, let's first start with what he last said. He put a quantum chip. Okay. So this chip is able to send or receive potential signals. It is essentially a chip that may be put into, say, for example, quantum computing or something like this. And so these chips are essentially made to receive or send signals in. some waveform right through the chip into something else and it usually does it in various ways in super high speed environments and so what hal did here was he created these barriers to where it

would encapsulate this chip in three different barriers you had the number one you had the the magnetic shield you had the the actual titanium or metal boxing shield and then you also had this kind of acoustic and energy shield around it, right? So there's about three different barriers to where it would not be allowed to potentially receive or send a signal. Or react to like outside influences like in the room. Yeah, absolutely. And so when he had brought this guy to this place and he said, you know, hey, here's the deal. And then how was like, well, how the hell did you do it. Well, what this guy did was he somehow got a signal into that chip. And so how was like, well, how did that happen? And he said, well, I don't know how it did it. My only thing I did was I've

remote viewed inside of the innermost structure that was protecting this chip. And it was just because of his viewing that that chip received a signal. And it was from obviously this guy's brain. And he remote viewed by drawing the picture. Absolutely. Yeah, he drew. It drew a diagram. Yeah. And I guess he connected with this in some way, shape, or form. But also, I can't not mention the fact that when he was talking to this polygraph expert and he was going through his experiment where he literally hooked up a plant to a polygraph. And this is one of the top polygraph experts in the world.

He hooked a plan up to a polygraph. Sorry. He hooked the plant up to a polygraph. Yeah. And when he did this, this plant exhibited signs and, I guess, signals the same way a person would, which was interesting. It is interesting. And then he threatened. And he threatened the plant.

And it also did a very similar signal to what a human may, I guess, respond with in a polygraph examination. But if you think about a plant, a plant is a living thing. And so it does have some things like humans. Some characteristics. And you just think, yeah, characteristics that sword. And you think about like the Venus fly. trap, for example. They have to respond when they see flies to trap it.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, and, you know, if you look up on AI, there's no definitive scientific evidence, supposedly, that plants have a consciousness in the way humans or animals do. But there are definitely weird findings. For example, you know, perception and response, plants can detect light, gravity, touch, chemical sound, and even electrical fields. And then, like Sherry said, the Venus flytrap. You also think about the mimosa pudica, which folds its leaves when touched.

Then communications plant release chemicals like ethylene or vox to warn neighbors of danger, including insect attacks. They can communicate via root network sometimes called the Wood Wide Web, often facilitated by myocorizol fungi. And there are a lot of studies that suggest that the mimosa pudica can remember repeated stimuli and stop reacting to them implying a form of learning. But they have various ways of actually communicating, it seems like, with other plants, with the plant itself.

And so the fact that someone could hook a polygraph, I guess, what is it, machine, up to a plant. And it reacts very similarly to how a person would, especially under stress or threat, is insane. Yeah. And I guess that takes away my vegan ideas of not hurting animals because you're still hurting plants. Yeah, it's weird. It's a very strange thing. But so where we're at now is that this guy's remote view and inside of this three-layered, I guess, protect. structure to where allegedly nothing could possibly get in to communicate with this chip.

Now, nothing that we know can get in. I don't even think that we can make a device that would be able to penetrate this box. So say you had a microwave type device and you were trying to penetrate this three structure type box that Hal Puttov put together. Well, how Puttah put this together because he understands electrical engineer and he understands that if we have to block all in every signal possible to gain access to this chip that's in the middle, we get to do it for everything. So that would include any type of radio or microwave activity, any type of wavelength forms.

This structure blocks all of that. But somehow, by remote viewing, it communicates with that chip. So that's very interesting. Let's listen to some more. Through an accurate diagram of all the shielding that you had around this equipment. And the little quantum chip in its circuitry deep inside. And when you say he was able to affect something, what in particular was he able to affect? Well, in general, there was a big oscillating signal coming out of the thing that ran about 30 seconds or so.

And then when he affected it, it just stopped oscillating. And then he said, you want me to do something else? And then you made it oscillate fast. and that's when the graduate student sort of went berserco. And so he said, wait, wait, let me see what's wrong here. And he couldn't find anything wrong. So he said, well, I'm sure that was just some kind of coincidental glitch. And he did it again.

And so he said, okay. So he's doing it exactly when he's saying he's going to do it. Exactly when he said he's going to do it. But anyway, the reason I'm trying to get around answering your question was that I then wrote this up and circulated around to other physicists. and pretty soon the CIA come landing on my doorstep and said, oh, have we been looking for you? And I said, you know, why? Well, they looked in my background. They saw that I had, between my master's degree and Ph.D.

I'd been a naval intelligence officer at the National Security Agency. I had lots of high-level clearances. And he said, you know, we have a problem. And they plopped a big report down on the desk about like that and said, look, the Russians has been spending millions of dollars at their best institutes trying to use ESP for espionage purposes. And we don't know how to evaluate it. I mean, no scientist in America even believes there is such a thing. And yet you did this experiment, and it looked like this guy could actually get inside this device and describe. it and affect it.

And here you're at SRI. We have lots of black projects here anyway. So we'd like to check him out. Can you bring him back and let us come and do some experiments with them? And by the way, we're hoping that we'll find this is just all BS. And we don't have to think about it. And that'll be the end of that. So anyway, brought him back.

They spent a day hiding things in the boxes and envelopes. And he would describe what was inside. and they were totally blown away. So they said, okay, we would like to give you a little project here, I know, 50 or 60K, and see what else he could do. So anyway, that's how I got started on doing, quote, weird stuff. And so, as many would know, that project ended up being very productive, and it went over more than 20 years and so on, highly classified level.

Well, maybe we'll get to that separately. because I think the UAP stuff is kind of more interesting to start with. But anyway, that's how I got started in weird physics, you might call it. And then sort of like in Ghostbusters, well, if you got some difficult problem, who are you going to call? How put off? There I am. So what other things did you do with Ingo? So he was able to affect the oscillations.

He would affect the oscillations. So there's some, he had some sort of an ability. Did he describe, first of all, like what this ability was, how he perceived it? He said that for some reason, starting when he was a little kid, he would, you know, try to focus on some news item or whatever, and he'd suddenly get some kind of picture in his mind about what was going on. And later he would check it out and it turned out to be correct. So he just said, you know, I just, he's stumbled upon remote view. them, right. But remote viewing and then being able to interact with the equipment and change the oscillation seems very different, right? It is very different. And as we might discuss later, I've got some ideas about, you know, what some of the quantum mechanisms might be involved in that.

But anyway, as far as the CIA was concerned, they were most interested in this ability to see through shielding. And they said, does that mean if we have all kinds of classified documents and the super good, I think safe? The Russians might be able to, you know, reach in and see them. And so that's what they were most worried about. And so, anyway. Did you find out to be true? That started a whole program when we found out that it was true, that we started out doing what you would think, you know, just hiding things in the next room. and can you describe them and stuff like that.

And but then he got bored. He says, well, if you want to know what's in the next room, go look. Do you want to know what's in the envelope or the box? Open it up. So he said, well, you know, what do you have in mind? He said, well, just send somebody out into the San Francisco Bay Area now describe where they are. And so that's how what we call remote viewing program got started. We started doing experiments, which each – I got to say I resisted this stuff every inch along the way because as a physicist.

I had no idea how this could possibly be. But nonetheless, we began working with him. Our lab director, who's always concerned about was this some kind of hoax between the subjects and the experimenters? He'd make up a long list and store him in his safe. and we'd go get an envelope out of the safe, leave SRI, drive to wherever the envelope said, and he would give a description. That's how that whole program got started. When you are experiencing this and you're initially very skeptical and you start seeing these results,

what kind of a shift does that have in your worldview? And I want to pause here for just a second because I think it's also interesting and the amount of times that on this show, when we've done UFO, UAP, or alien-type podcast, where we talked about the potential existence of aliens, but also if you go back in history and you look at these very, very credible instances of abductions to where people swore that they were abducted by aliens,

they were put in this craft, and not only did these people claim this, like Betty and Barney Hill was one very classic example, I mean, you have many others. But in this particular or all these particular cases, there was one thing that they all said that just kind of stands out to me. And it is that the aliens, when they would be in these craft, when they would be abducted, none of them ever talked. Right. But they always communicated.

Yeah, telepathically. So if you think about ESP, it stands for extra sensory perception. And number one, telepathy is the first rule of ESP, which is reading or transmitting thoughts between minds. But then you think about the gaining information about people, objects, events at a distance. So remote viewing. And then you have precognition or perceiving future events before they happen. And then you have retrocognition, which is perceiving past events you could not have possibly known about otherwise. And then you have psychometry, a reading information from objects by.

touch. So these are all things that ESP kind of enraps itself or envelopes himself into. But I did find it very interesting that all of these people throughout history since the 1940s, and actually I even believe the 30s, when they would describe their abduction experience, you know, and most people, when you hear about people being abducted by aliens, everybody thinks, oh my God, they're crazy. They're psychopaths. But there's always been a constant with people that have been allegedly abducted is that when they encounter these quote unquote beings, they speak to them telepathically. And I also found it very interesting.

There's a book out there called The Day After Roswell, very, very well written book. And this book comes from firsthand accounts of firefighters and police officers that responded the day that the Roswell UFO crash happened. You know how the government came forward and they said, oh, it was a weather balloon. but at first they said it was a disc. That was the first initial report because there were so many people out there including firefighters, paramedics, farmers, all these people said, no, this was a flying saucer looking disc.

This was a UFO. Everybody saw it. There were so many people that saw it. And then it was like a week or, I don't even think it was a week. I think it was like two or three days later. Then you had the U.S. government come out and say, oh, it's a weather balloon. And they threw this what looked like a weather type balloon on the floor and said, see,

this is what we recovered, nothing to see here. But when you read the book the day after Roswell from the accounts of firefighters and police officers to where when they arrived on the scene of this crash, because they didn't know what it was, they went up to this area of where this UFO was, right? And these stories have been well documented and, I mean, they seem to be true. They had this overwhelming feeling of, first of all, they claim they witnessed. aliens of some type that day.

Deceased aliens. Yeah, there was a there was like a one or two deceased aliens and there was some alive. Some alive that were trying to kind of walk or walk away or whatever. But they all had this overwhelming feeling of they knew exactly what these aliens were saying. They were they were communicating with them through some type of telepathic type format. And I know when you hear that stuff, especially if you're not like a UFO person, I don't really care about that. It sounds crazy until you see.

start hearing what Dr. Hal Putoff is saying here. And Dr. Hal Putoff is not some just random doctor. He's not even a random dude. This guy is responsible for one of the biggest remote viewing slash psychic espionage programs in U.S. government history. It is one of the only programs that has ever been created by the U.S. government based on psychic ESP or remote viewing abilities. And it was all because of this chance encounter between Dr. Hal Putoff and some of his experiments that led him to this guy, Ingo Swan, that then led him to so many other people and training them and trained them that also had all of these abilities. So I just find it weird that I do think maybe, look, if you want to just say on the surface,

let's just say that some of these abductions have been true. Well, they all go back to one thing, telepathy. And all of these beings in some way, shape, or form are able to communicate with whoever they are around, telepathies. They don't have to talk. They literally put in your mind what they think or what they feel or how they want you to fill. And a lot of them always said, like, well, I felt like they were talking to me, but I never saw their mouth move.

I never heard them audibly, like from, you know, wherever I was at in this particular scenario. But I heard it. You know, it was like I knew what they were saying, but it was like they weren't saying anything. And that was a very similar story in the book the day after Roswell with the police and firefight. And it wasn't just one. It was multiple.

And then, of course, the Army showed up not long after Roswell happened. This was not long after the firefighters and first responders got there. But once the Army got there, it got crazier. And what a lot of these police officers and firefighters remember is that actually, it sounds like the government killed the aliens that were still alive, potentially. You guys should read the book. And I think it was also interesting, too, that the government was so into remote viewing to see what Russia was doing.

Yeah. Do you not think Russia's doing the same thing to us? Oh, absolutely. And I don't want to give any spoilers for tomorrow's podcast, but have you put that together, Chad? Yeah, kind of somewhat, yeah, for sure. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, definitely about what we're going to talk about tomorrow. Yeah, I think there's a connection.

It could be a connection to remote viewing. Yeah, for sure. And so let's listen to some more of what House says here. It was very challenging, I got to say, because as a physicist and as a quantum physicist, where I've written equations for all kinds of interactions, I had no clue how anything like this could possibly be. And I'll be honest, I still don't really have a clue about exactly what's going on other than consciousness seems to be expandable out into the environment

in a way that we don't usually consider it could possibly be the case. There are people who get into meditation or like that. kind of stuff, but none of that was in my background. So I just found this a challenge. And it was only that CIA was paying us to look into this that I kept going the next step, resisting every inch along the way. To give you an example, along the way, there was a little bit of PR in the newsprint newspapers about our experiment. So we began getting people. people calling in and saying, well, I have some of that ability to and whatever. And so one of the people that came along that way was Pat Price.

He was ex-Pleash commissioner Burbank. And he said, you know, when we were solving crimes, I would get an image of where the culprit might be hiding. And it would turn out to be correct. So maybe I have some of this ability. Well, I had no reason necessarily believe that. But it turned out that right at that moment, we were being challenged by the CIA to prove this wasn't just some kind of a hoax between the experimenters and the subjects. And so they came up with coordinates because, as it turns out, when we sent people out to a site and Ingo or somebody else had to describe it, they would describe not only the site as being observed by the outbound person, but also what was inside the building and what was on top of the building.

and what was on top of the building. So we suddenly realized, okay, that person is just a beacon. It's not that he's sending something back telepathically. So once we realize that, Ingo Swann and his never-ending challenge said, well, just give me coordinates, you know, latitude and longitude in degrees, minutes, and seconds. And I'll look wherever that is and tell you what I find. So, in fact, okay, I found that hard to believe. But we did a lot of experiments and started targeting on things. Anyway, Pat Price shows up.

We do some local experiments, and he's doing very well as well. And so, again, our CIA contract monitors were worried that there's some kind of, you know, trickery and so that. So they came up with coordinates of what turns out to be right next to Sugar Grove facility, which is a highly classified NSA facility picking up Soviet. satellite transmissions. So I just, I had no idea what it was. I mean, we always kept ourselves blind to what the target was, so no one could say we just gave him the data.

So Pat Price decided to, you know, to follow our instructions and go to those coordinates and say what he says. And so he describes this place. But as part of that, what he does is he says that he merged his mind, whatever you want to say, into a safe and a whole bunch of words popped up into his mind. So he gave this whole list of words. Okay, fine. So we ruined them all down, set them off.

Pretty soon the entire law enforcement apparatus of the country landed on us and said, how did you get this information? This is highly classified project titles. Do you have a source inside? No, we were just doing this experiment. and that's what he got. And so eventually, 20 years later, you can find the paper that was published by the CIA about what a deal this was.

And so anyway, at that time, we were at a point we were about ready to get the next year's contract. And we had a deputy director, John McMahon, said, okay, well, let's not waste it on our sides, for God's sake. do a Soviet site. And so they gave us coordinates of a Soviet site. It turned out to be an R&D facility at Semipalitensk in the Soviet Union. And so we targeted Price on that. He turned out to be a really good remote viewer along with English Swan.

And he described this giant crane that rolled over the top of a building. And, I mean, it sounded a lot of. like science fiction. I've got some examples here of the drawings of that. And so it turned out that from satellite imagery, what he drew

was correct. And so that finally started, okay, this stuff is real. It can be used. Let's go to work with it. All right, I want to pause here for a second. Because I was thinking about something as he's talking,

and especially with our audience because I got it I got to say this and cherry's like oh my god you're gonna you're gonna talk about the bible well but listen here's the deal there's probably people out there right now it's like I thought you guys are on a journey about God and the Bible and all the stuff well we are absolutely still 100% I still I read like four chapters last night and I'm reading everything I possibly can many of you know that but I'm also sure there's people out there that are like well listen if you're going to believe in this remote viewing that's like demonic that's like something of the the the nether world or whatever. But also, you have to think about this. Think about the Bible and the biblical stories and the prophets. Think about remote viewing. Think about Ezekiel, for example. He saw visions of heavenly realms and was transported to Jerusalem.

Now, when it says transported to Jerusalem, he saw almost like the future. He wasn't transported necessarily physically, but he was transported. And the way it describes it in the Bible is he was transported to see something, even though he was not there. Elijah remotely perceived what Gahazi did in secret. That was two kings five, 25, through 27. Daniel had dreams and visions of future kingdoms. John and Revelations describe apocalyptic events that appear as remote viewing across time and dimensions. But then you think about the world of knowledge or word of knowledge, knowing something without being told, or discerning of spirits, perceiving spiritual realities beyond the physical vision, it talks about.

And then the visions and dreams frequently used by God to reveal hidden truth. And this was used throughout the biblical stories about the dreams that would come to these prophets. And they would be shown these things that otherwise, if you, you know, if maybe we're maybe just not understanding how this stuff works, which as how Putoff here says himself, I'm basically a genius, but I have no idea how this works. I cannot connect it. I cannot even describe it. is visions come to them through dreams and other methods. And this has been happening since Bible times. We just don't understand how it's happening.

You can think about Nikola Tesla, for example. He said he had visions that came to him and he made huge diagrams of all of these different machines. He had all these visions of all these different inventions that he made. There's over like seven or 800 massive technological advancements or leaps in technology that we use today that maybe in a lot of ways we feel like that we just created these things in the past 20 or 30 years. No, there's like over 7 or 800 massive advancements that Nikola Tesla is responsible for. And that was many, many, many, many years ago.

And he said they all came through visions. Yeah, visions. Yeah, because Nikola Tesla always said, which obviously for those that don't know who Nikola Tesla is, but he's the guy that essentially created free energy. And it would have been free energy for the world if probably the government didn't kill him and he had all these patents to where he was like, you know, hey, look, guys, I have a way that we can give free energy to the world. And then the people that were invested in this technology are like, no, you don't.

You're about to not have that technology. We're going to make people pay for that stuff. We're not going to ever have free energy. Yeah, because there always has to be a control structure throughout history. And we see that throughout history. Any advancement in technology that someone comes up with scientists or otherwise, if it doesn't benefit the government, then they're not going to be able to release it. And especially if it does take away a little bit of the control from world governments. We've seen that throughout history.

And that's why even with Hal Putoff and with Oppenheimer and Einstein and all of these geniuses of our time or of other times, it's always the government that comes knocking at their door that says, hey, show me this. We're doing this. We're doing this. And it's like in most ways, they have no choice but to go along with it because they are the government. And if they're going to make sure that whatever you're screwing with or working on, it's going to be in their benefit, not yours and not ours. It is in their best interest, not our best interest. And I also wanted to bring up another person that reminds me of what we're talking about, and that's Stephen Greer.

Yeah, Dr. Stephen Greer. I mean, they're definitely doing remote viewing. Yeah. In a way, I mean, well, they're making these things come to them. Yeah, they're, well, some people say it's like seances. Tim Birchick congressman from Tennessee, like the guy a lot. I mean, he's just kind of one of the most open and chill dudes that you'll ever hear. He kind of reminds me of the Kennedy guy.

Yeah, I love Kennedy from Kentucky. Yeah. He reminds me or no, he's from Louis, maybe as Kentucky. Yeah, he's Kentucky. But yeah, so Tim Burchett was asked about Dr. Stephen Greer. And Dr. Stephen Greer in C.E5, it's like, I don't know, they'll have these C.E5 events. And they'll bring all these people to certain areas of the country. And maybe there's 25 or 30 of them.

But I guess that Dr. Stephen Greer has figured out this methodology of summonsing UAPs or UFOs, whatever they are, these orbs that show up after they do this deep meditation stuff. And then all of a sudden, a lot of what people think are UFOs or whatever it is, these orbs appear. And it's after their little seads, as Tim Burchett calls it. And it very well may be because also in the Bible, it talks about, look, you know, stuff that you start playing with magic because that's what the.

watchers. That's what the Nephlam. That's what they all used to do. They, they worship magic, not God. And I think that's why if you ask someone like Tim Burchett, where you're drawing in these entities that we don't necessarily know what these entities are or where they're from. How is that that's where I get kind of aggravated with religion versus what we're talking about tonight. Because just because you're summonsing in something doesn't mean you're worshiping it or idolizing it. It's just that you're using an ability that you have to have something come to you that is not from this world.

Yeah. That is true. I mean, I don't know. I mean, there's definitely people that are hardcore on one side that say, hey, if you start to do any of this stuff,

you start to try to practice in psychic abilities or remote viewing or whatever, what I will say at the very least, especially with the conversation tonight as far as remote viewing and how Dr. How Puteoff, along with the government, utilize remote viewing is just that if you ask like a very, very hardcore Christian on one side of the aisle and you say, hey, what do you think about remote viewing? They're going to be like, well, that's demonic, obviously. You can't do that. But maybe it's just you don't understand it.

And I don't think we do. We don't understand it. And the problem is, is that we can't cut off our advancement in our consciousness or our advancement in, you know, just the human mind and the human brain because there's a group of people that say, hey, you can't do that because of, Because you're worshipping the devil. Because I don't think that's necessarily true. Yeah, I don't either. I don't see how that would be worshipping something else other than God. Yeah.

Well, I do think that as Dr. Hal Putoff says here, not everyone is on the same scale as far as who can do it, who cannot. Most people can. But there's definitely a difference in those people. Let's listen to some more. So that's what started the whole, you might say, espionage-oriented SRI program and remote viewing. It went through, I don't know. like 23 years or so.

What are the meetings like? When you're explaining this to the CIA and you're showing them results and you've got these, you know, hard-nosed individuals who are pretty rational. Right. Trying to figure out what you're saying. There are really basically two levels of response. For example, some of the early work when we went to brief, we had 10 or 12 people and we're talking about the work.

Pretty soon a guy in the back of the room jumps up and he says, says, I know what this is. This is some kind of sciop test of our gullibility. And I want you to know, whoever's putting this out, I'm not buying it. And he stormed out of the room. So that was one response. But there's a second response we got, which turned out to be interesting. At a certain point, after we had done a number of years of successful work in doing the remote viewing, we had to keep briefing higher and higher, as you can imagine. I hate it. I hate it. I hate briefing higher because if you brief a high-level guy and he says, oh, come on, this is nonsense, this is BS.

You know, that's the end, that's the end of your programs. So I got it up to what point where, for example, I briefed Bill Casey, who was director of CIA under Reagan, and we had 45 minutes with him. And so I went through stuff like I've been describing for 45 minutes. he got so in trance with it that he dismissed the rest of his afternoon calendar, and we spent five hours briefing him on that. So there was this funny thing where a certain level of people would just, this can't be.

And then really high-level people seemed to be more open to it. So actually, we came up with a hypothesis, and that is, okay, people who make it to the top of the food chain might be people who at some level inside themselves are, you know, they're always making decisions based on insufficient information, and they end up making the right decision. That's how they got to where they are. So maybe this is some aspect that's at least at the unconscious level happening all the time. Well, that finally got put to a test because there were some parapsychologists who did some

experiments with a meeting of CEOs of, I think, 67 CEOs of major corporations. and had them try to guess the numbers that were going to be generated on a computer the next day. And so they did that. And it turned out that those who scored quite positively, significantly so, when we interviewed them, it turned out they were the people who had the businesses that were really doing well. And the people who scored poorly had businesses that were kind of failing. So these investigators would ask them, well, you know, what? are you using, do you use ESP or something? Do you have some glint of the future?

He said, no, no, no, no. I don't believe any of that nonsense. But I realize that when I trust my gut instinct, I'm usually right. So anyway, that sort of leads to the eye that this is a broadly available phenomenon. And he's making a great point here, right? We've always heard, like, trust your gut, trust your instinct. Yeah, our deja vu. Have you ever had that?

Or you felt like you've been here before or you've done this before or maybe you are there in a past life or something. Yeah. Where you just feel like I have been here or I've lived this before or something like this is very similar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think even just, you know, we've we've also heard about the secret, right? The book that says if you put it out there in the world, it will come to you, right?

And there's also the law of attraction. Law of attraction. But then you also have like the vision boards to where if you have a board on your wall and you put exactly what you're going to achieve. in the next six months or year or whatever it is, oftentimes for a lot of people, it seems like it does at least help them. Maybe that's just a reminder. Maybe that's something that lives inside of you.

Every day you see that board, you're like, hey, it reminds you what I got to keep working on. I'm telling you every, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but every day I was going to work, Chad,

and it would be a red light and there would be cars backed up forever. And I would do the law of attraction. I say, it's going to turn green now, turn green now. But it did not turn green. But in the law of traction, just so you know, you can't ever use words like don't or no or this is not going to happen. You can't put those into your head.

It has to be like positive words. Like, it will turn green now. Well, I can tell you this. Like, I'm one of those people that if you're in the grocery store and there are four lines open, not open, but there are four lines. Oh, gosh. Yeah, I somehow always pick the absolute worst lines. And it'll be, you know, it looks on the outside like it's the perfect line. You have one lady.

She has like five items. Three or four, five items. Everybody else has like cartfuls and five people. And then somehow, 45 minutes later, I'm still on this line because this lady has lost her card or there's something going on or she forgets her pen. It's always something. Or the cash register lady is cleaning off the little thing and taking her time. Oh, it's something, man. And then I give Chad this look like, why?

Why didn't you listen to me? Yeah. Well, so anyways, but, you know, I'm just one of those people. I feel like sometimes I pick the wrong lines or I go to the wrong red lights. Like when we're coming out of a grocery store, there's two various ways you can go. And sometimes when I think one way is the way to go, it's always the wrong way to go. So I don't know what that means. But what I will say is, as how Putoff says here, where he takes these 60 plus CEOs and he does this number guessing game for the next day numbers that are going to be generated on this computer.

And so you have, you know, a faction of these CEOs that guess this particular set of numbers, whatever that is. And then you have this other faction of CEOs. They're guessing this number. When they compared the two, the ones that seemed to guess the closest to what they actually were, the computer were spitting out, were the ones that had thriving businesses. And the ones that their businesses were failing. And all of that means something. It does. And have you ever thought about it, like, as far as the lottery?

Have you ever? I don't know if you guys do lottery. But when you get the tickets and you think about the seven numbers and then you get zero numbers, you're like, oh my God. Well, no. But then you also have people like I have an aunt that won the lottery like three times. I mean, and there are people, it seems, that the same people win the lottery often. And it's weird how many people win the lottery multiple times.

Yeah. So there's got to be also something to that. But I also think it depends on. you do the quick pick or you put your own numbers in. Yeah, but still, I mean, if you're a winning lottery multiple times, there's something to be said about that too. And it probably has something to do with this. But it gets juicier in just a moment.

We don't have a ton more, but you got to hear kind of the back end of this. Listen. Do you think this is an emerging aspect of human consciousness? Or do you think that this is something that maybe we developed a long time ago, but lost because of communication, because of the written word, because of our ability to express ourselves, that we stopped communicating with the mind? I think your second interpretation is the correct one, because probably, you know, when you're out in the jungle and there's a tiger coming down the trail that you don't

know about quite, you know, it would be a thing that you would, could really help you exist and survive. but once we get into language and technology and so on, you know, that sort of, nonetheless, we found, I'll tell you what was the most mind-boggling thing in the whole program was the following.

We had a few people who did really well. So, of course, CIA wanted to know, well, we'd like to find people in CIA who could do this. So give us a full medical, roundup of these people. So we get a full medical, including seven-layer brain scans. And they came back and said, well, these are just normal people. So, oh, well, maybe it's psychological or neurological or whatever. So they did all those experiments. And they said, these are just normal people. So we wondered, well, does that mean that normal people could do this, even if they didn't know

about it. So about that time, we said, okay, well, let's just bring in some people from SRI labs who never thought about ESP, who never thought about any of this stuff. So I remember we had a woman, Hallahamad, and we asked her to come volunteer for an experiment. She said, what kind of an experiment? She said, well, it's sort of like an ESP experiment. She said, give me a break. I don't I don't believe in that stuff and say, okay, but do it anyway. And so one of the first experiments we did with her, and we have a wonderful diagram of what she did. We sent somebody out by our usual random protocol to overpass over a freeway that's all fenced in with a very interesting structure. And she made a drawing of all of that and said, you know, this is kind of.

a trough up in the air, but it's got holes in it so it couldn't carry water. There's something going by really fast. I mean, she really nailed the place. And so we got the idea, and that was the biggest discovery in this whole thing, was that apparently, as with, say, athletic ability or musical ability, there's a bell curve. And you got superstars at one end, you got duds at the other, but to some degree, anybody could do it. So that had a lot of outcome later on in the program when finally, to give an example of a real-world

result, a Soviet plane went down somewhere in Africa. That's all we knew. Somewhere in Africa, a plane went down. So Stansfield Turner, who was Carter's CIA director, knew about our remote viewing program. and so he said, well, you've got these, quote, remote viewers are supposed to be so good. Why don't they find the plane for you? So, in fact, we had a remote viewer at our lab, and at that time we were working with Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Foreign Technology Division. They had a remote viewer.

So we targeted these two remote viewers. All they knew was the plane went down somewhere in Africa, hundreds of thousands of square miles. and make long story short, they described how it looked and put an X on the map that was three miles from where the plane landed. We were told that would never be revealed to the public. But it turned out that after Carter got out of office, he was giving a speech in Georgia someplace. And somebody said, well, anything happened while you were present that was really strange? He said, oh, yeah, the Soviet plane went down in Africa and was full of electronic. and we wanted to get it and nobody knew where it was and satellites couldn't find it because of all the vegetation.

But we had some remote viewers so called and they pinpointed where it was and we went in and got it before the Russians could find it. So, I mean, the real world consequences came up. By the way, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of you listening to this that are automatically thinking in this section of the show that. Yeah, Ashton Forbes. Yeah, Ashton Forbes and MH370, that investigation, you know, MH Flight 370 that disappeared. And Ashton Forbes in all of his investigative work for at least a year and a half now, you know, where he's talked about this video that came out. Many people believe the video is faked. I mean, there is national attention to this.

I mean, you're talking about Ross Colthart. You're talking about Lou Alizano. There's been so many people have to respond to Ashton's investigative work based on the videos where it looks like orbs are zapping a plane out of thin air. This plane has disappeared. Still, to this day, no one has ever been able to find MH straight flight 370. You got to think if the remote viewing thing is real, which it is, obviously, the United States government has used it.

Russia governments use it. I'm sure there are many governments that use remote viewing, you know, aspects of their intelligence. So why is MH370 not been found? That's the question. And you at least have to ask that question when you're thinking about Ashton Forbes investigations and all this stuff because it was successful when this plane went down that disappeared. They probably weren't going to find it. I don't think it went.

Oh, you're talking about the Soviet Union plane. Yeah, that went down. And they found it within three miles. In Africa, yeah. So, I mean, you know, there's something to be said about that. I just wanted to point that out. What of this stuff. So when Carter said that, was that a breach of confidence?

That was a breach of security, but a president can... They're allowed to do that? They're allowed to do that. Don't tell Trump. Right. So you, the United States was able to go and get this jet. Right. So by the...

TU22 bomber, I think it was. Yeah. So this has real world uses, so this remote viewing. So do they invest more time and more effort into this now? they're still skeptics? Well, we pretty much handle the skeptical problem, and let me give you an example. I mean, as we're turning out these results, as you can imagine, anybody, you know, didn't have direct knowledge of this, would be skeptical, and rightly so, by the way.

I mean, I was skeptical every inch along the way as we plowed our way into this stuff. So one day, a guy shows up from CIA and says, okay. I'm here to find out what the fraud is. I'm sure this is absolute nonsense. So I said, okay, fine. So show me one of your experiments. So, you know, we put him in the lab with an interviewer and another remote viewer. And in this case, I'm sent out someplace for 30 minutes.

And it turns out that the remote viewer described it really well. And he said, well, you probably. probably told him where you're going to go. Let's do another experiment, and I'm going to go, and we'll go in my car, because you might have had a transmitter in your car transmitting where you're going. So I'm going to pick the site. So we do another experiment, get a great result. So finally he says, well, I've got to figure out what's wrong with this.

So my colleague, Russell Targ, and I sat down. This guy's a hard case, but we got the bell curve, who knows, maybe somewhere in the middle of the bell curve. So he comes in the next day, and we say, okay, today you're going to be the remote viewer. And he said, give me a break. I don't believe in this BS. He said much more strongly than that, actually. And so, you know, okay, well, just try. You'll see we're not stressing him out and whatever, whatever, whatever.

And he says, okay. And when you go to your place, I want you to take pictures and do a recording. And when you come back, show me your stuff before I show you mine. Okay, fine. Well, it turned out we went to a playground with a merry-go-round. Meanwhile, back in the lab, he's drawing a picture of a playground with a merry-go-round. And he sees the results, and he says, okay, you've convinced me. So it was that kind of thing that would push him over.

Yeah, there's an example. Now, he misinterpreted what it was. He thought maybe it was a cupola or whatever. But anyway, that's his drawing on the right, and that's where we were on the left. And so he said, so he went back to CIA and said, okay, this stuff really works. And he became one of their star remote viewers over the years. Wow. So a skeptic became one of their remote viewers.

Yep. Sure didn't. What is the process? What is the process for a person to remote view? Is there a state that you have to go into? Is there a method getting into that state? There is a method, and it's different from what you might think. You might think you would say to somebody, okay, we've got somebody to decide,

kind of imagine where they are and see what it looks like and tell us what you find and all that kind of kind of stuff. They're usually wrong when they do that because their imagination comes into play and they make up something or whatever. whatever. But what we found out in the research, it took years and a lot of trials, what is you get a visceral response to a site. It's not that you necessarily get an image. So in fact, we told them, you know, if you get an image, just put it down the right hand side of the paper because it's probably wrong. Instead, just kind of put down your feelings as you get into the site. And so, you know, if it's like water, they might do waves or if the mountain people. peak. They might, as Jacques described in one of your previous broadcast, a mountain peak, and

they just feel like drawing something like that. So bit by bit, the process is very much a visceral feeling process. And so the training procedure has them sitting with pads of paper and just making sketches and drawings and not trying to interpret what it is. And also being very not in a rush about it. But it's sort of like you've got a door and you drill a hole through and then drill another hole through and then finally the door crumbles. And then you've got a pretty good feeling for what the side is.

So the process that we use to train people involves this multi-stage process where there to go by feelings, colors, flashes of things. You see a flash of piece of metal. Don't try to turn it into a car or a bicycle. or whatever. So anyway, there's a whole training procedure that we developed. And eventually when we briefed the assistant chief staff for intelligence, assistant director of intelligence for the Army, they said,

okay, well, then we need to have our people get involved in learning how to do this. And so they sent Army intelligence officers. They picked out a bunch of them and said, hey, you've just volunteered to become a psychic spy. say, well, okay. And they sent them out to SRI, and we ran them through this step-by-step training procedure. And they learned to do really, really well. I mean, Joel McManigal, who anyone who follows the literature, is known to be really an excellent remote viewer. And so, give you an example, one time he said, I mean, we trained them, and so,

they learned to do really well. We set up a whole program. And he said, okay, there's this site in the Soviet Union, and they're making this unbelievably giant submarine. And it's made out of titanium or something. I mean, it's bigger than any submarine than anybody's ever heard of. And it's strange because the missile silos are on the top rather than along the sides and so on.

I give this whole description. Of course, we had to, at that time, we were briefing all the way up to National Security Council, and so they looked at this. This is nonsense. But about a month later, out rolls this unbelievably giant submarine, the typhoon-class submarine, the largest submarine ever made. Indeed, there are his sketches, and a lot of description that went along with his sketches. And there's a submarine on the right. And so finally, the people of the National Security Council said, okay.

we better start taking this seriously. So make a long story short, he eventually, Joe McManagal got a National Merit Award for over 200 great viewings he did for CIA, National Security Council, FBI, I mean, you name it. So anyway, that grew into a whole industry. So there you go. And what he's saying here is that when he would bring in these people to try to remote view, You know, he said, I don't want you to try to imagine things. You're going to obviously imagine things.

That's what your brain is automatically going to go to. Cut that out. Yeah, you got to cut it out in some way. But as he says, what I want you to do is whatever you're imagining, your little visions, you can draw them over here at the right if you want to. But what we're really trying to get to is feelings about a certain thing, your visceral response. What is it? If we try to explain a little bit, at least about a certain place or area, I don't necessarily

want pictures or imagine, you know, like you trying to imagine what the building looks like necessarily. I want your fillings. I want these instincts, these things, like he says, is it water filling? Are you feeling like a mountain, trees, wood, metal, all of this stuff? And then as you keep going through this process and you start writing down all these things. And then you start building on this idea.

Right. It's like putting a puzzle together. Absolutely. You start drawing pieces. And as these pieces are drawn, you put the puzzle. pieces together, and that's how you do the remote viewing. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, like the modern remote viewing versus even biblical, like in remote viewing experiments like Project Stargate, which where all of these people would enter altered mental states in some

way, shape, or form to assess information from afar. That's remote viewing. And then the Bible figures like Daniel, John, and Ezekiel often enter trances fall as if they are dead or are called up in the spirit, they say, also altered states of conductive to remote viewing. And then you think about even the DMT aspect of stuff, right, where people will take this DMT. And Joe Rogan's talked a lot about it. There's been a lot of people that have experimented with this DMT. Now, it is, I guess, technically a drug, if you don't think of it that way. But our bodies do actually produce DMT.

And animals produce more DMT than we do, by far, actually. So in the beginning of this show, when I was talking about how animals are a lot more sensitive to things, whether it be maybe something that's going wrong in your body or changes in weather or just various things. I mean, especially even with earthquakes, there's so many videos out there where you look at some of these massive earthquakes and you'll see these either in-home cameras to where there will be cats laying on the back of a couch or dogs laying on a sofa or the floor. and with sometimes three to four minutes before this massive earthquake ever even happens, these animals start going crazy. I mean, they'll start jumping. They'll start flying across the house. And sometimes this will be up to three to five minutes before the earthquake ever hits,

before any trembles ever happened, before anything is actually ever recorded on the seismic graph. Yeah, it's crazy. There's a video that's going viral right now, and it was a bunch of elephants somewhere. and there is this huge storm coming in, and it shows the adult elephants going in a circle around the baby elephants to protect them. Have you seen that video? No, I haven't. But, I mean, it makes sense for sure. And I think the DMT thing also kind of plays into some of this, right?

Now, DMT, people can take that. I mean, people go to places to take DMT. And, you know, if you take DMT, it is essentially like you're taking something that your body already naturally. produces, but just in very, very low amounts. And that's what you're, you know, most people will call their third eye or pineal gland. A lot of people contribute your dream state to the DMT release at night. You are more conductive for a DMT release at night than you are in any other time. Obviously, in your altered state of consciousness, which is another aspect of this.

I think that's when your actual mind and imagination goes away and the DMT starts to actually be released to where you're connecting with something else. But the thing about it is, thinking about the animal. side of this. Animals are overly producing of DMT in their natural physiology and there are certain animal species that can release more DMT than

others. So I think dogs are, I believe they release more DMT than cats and there are certain kind of lineages in the animal kingdom to where you start thinking about how amazing some of these animals are, whether that be their instincts or whatever. it's not just because they can hear better than others or see better in some cases.

There's oftentimes that there are certain species of animals that sense things that we just can't explain or understand. Well, I'm just wondering, you know, we were talking on Telegram last night about lucid dreams. I wonder if that has anything to do with it as well. Probably. I mean, lucid dreaming is essentially where you were able to control your dreams. And there are some people that are more prone to be able to control their dreams than others. But, you know, the guy that we were actually talking to last night is a listener of ours. Great guy. He has a YouTube channel.

I will have to get you guys the YouTube channel. I want to bring him on the show. Yeah, that's what I told him. But he was very interesting. He has a lucid dream YouTube channel. And he was on our telegram live chat last night. We were talking with him. And he is blind.

He actually has not been blind his whole life. He went blind four years ago about. And he went blind from a, I think it was type one diabetes. Yeah, type one diabetes. And so he went blind, but it wasn't until he went blind. that the lucid dreaming really started to ramp up to where he was able to then control his dreams on a crazy level. And that's what obviously got him in this passion for lucid dreaming and then also trying to

help other people as far as that goes. But you know, we also often hear about like if you lose a sense, another one will strengthen, right? So if you lose sight or you lose hearing or you lose whatever it is, sense of smell, there will be other senses that heighten or ramp up. Right. it's interesting how that works, but I think it's, I think it's nature. I think it's your body, God, I think is whatever that says, hey, you lost this. You have to be better at this now.

And you're going to be better at that. So this whole thing is weird. And what I want to understand is that you, and I've said this about UFOs and the UAP phenomenon forever. You can have UFOs. You can have little green men. You can have little gray aliens. Whatever you want to have. You can have all of that, but also believe in God. I don't want the menace ones, though. whatever they're called. Yeah. The manis. Yeah.

I don't want those. They're mean. But I just want people to kind of at least broaden their mindset on some things to where it's like you can't. I understand that the Bible tells you all these things. And I've read it. I'm reading it again. And I believe in the Bible. I do believe the Bible.

I do think that in some cases there are certain aspects of the Bible that people do not necessarily interpret with the with the understanding and knowledge that we have today in some aspects. And that's something I've thought a lot about, is to whereas, like, there's so many stories that you're reading the Bible that does not make sense or sounds outlandish or sounds so far out there. And yet so many of the people that believe those stories because it's the Word of God or because it's in the Bible are the same ones that do not believe remote viewing or psychic abilities or even aliens. Yeah. And I was the exact opposite of people. that believe in the Bible. They believe in the Bible because they're told to believe in the Bible.

But after researching and figuring out things and understanding beyond the Bible, how things in these crazy stories could have happened and how they can be so real is what makes me believe in the Bible more. Exactly. 100%. Yeah, I 100% agree. And of all, you know, we've talked a lot about this as far as science. You know, science has always done a, they've tried to do their very best work in trying to, to disprove God. That is, in a lot of ways, in my opinion, there's been a large faction of science that has always wanted to do everything they could to disprove the creation theory, the creation story.

And it's not a theory in my mind. It is the real thing. And they've always wanted to prop up the narrative of a Big Bang theory, right? Which makes even less sense in my mind than an almighty creator. I think it could be all. Well, it could be. I'm just going to put it out there. Obviously, God, if he creates something, would create a big.

big bang that is then created. So you could have the big bang, but the big bang came from God. Now, if you want to start going down the rabbit hole of where did God come from? Well, God is the creator himself. Okay. But where did God come from? Did he have a dad? Is he a dad from like some other galaxy or dimension?

Let's get off that subject. And let me just tell you something that I have figured out during this podcast. The reason why, you know when you go to a Chinese restaurant and you get your fortune cookie and they have the lottery. numbers. Yeah. I'm still stuck on the lottery numbers. Oh, gosh.

The reason why they don't work is because they did not use remote viewing. Yeah. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's what it is. No, this is a very interesting, I guess, concept. But it's not a concept. It's true. Remote viewing actually does work.

Dr. Hal Putoff, along with so many other declassified CIA and government documents, prove and show that it worked. Although, what I will say is the government. has done what they can after the fact to try to downplay the fact that they even use remote viewing anymore. But I 100% believe they do. I just think that what this podcast should do. And I do encourage everybody to go listen to the entirety of the Joe Rogan podcast because

on tomorrow's podcast, we're going to talk about the Immaculate Constellation. And I think it has something to do with remote viewing. I'm just going to put it out there. It could. It absolutely could. We're going to break down Matthew Brown and that new whistleblower to came forward. That has always been a high level, I guess, intelligence officer.

He's had a lot of, you know, top secret clearances. He's had access to information that no one else or at least, you know, the normal public does not have access to. And so he has been able to log on some of these systems see a lot of things. And then he figured out something in particular about a file that was not necessarily supposed to be there. And then he wrote a report on this, which he then shared with Congress. It was actually talked about in a congressional hearing.

That was probably a year ago now. No, it wasn't that long ago. Six months to a year ago. And now he is coming out as the person, as the whistleblower. And the reason he's saying, hey, I'm coming out now because it was already shared in Congress. Obviously, the intelligence community is going to know who this guy is. But he figures, hey, I have to come forward. I have to be known.

I have to show my face and I get to say my name because that oftentimes protects you more than it hurt you. Yeah, for being suicided. And, you know, he even said himself. He said, you know, the penalties for this would be execution or life imprisonment. And so I am, I am willing to risk that. He said, I already know, and I believe, by the way, this guy still works at the State Department. He said, I already know that my career in government's probably over forever. But if you were someone like Trump or the Trump administration or whoever that's in this

administration, I would say give him a freaking raised. Yeah, seriously. But they just don't look at stuff the same way because, you know, the thing is, all of us on the outside are so interested and so enthralled in some ways, not all of us, but a lot of us are enthralled with the UFO topic with, are we alone? And even biblically, I think you can believe in aliens. And so I was trying to say earlier, I think you can believe in aliens and UFOs and little green men and all this stuff and also still 100% believe in the Bible and God. Because as I read through the book of Enoch, as I've read through the Bible, there are so many things

that literally point to like a UFO type thing. I mean, we're talking about fallen angels, the watchers, Nephlam, which are part supernatural, part human, and the watchers were not part human. They were supernatural. Yeah. It literally talks about that multiple times. They were an entity. They were a being.

And it's always interesting because we always think about it from a biblical perspective that they are just, the watchers are just, they're just fallen angels. you know, they were in heaven, didn't get along with God, and then they got kicked out of heaven. First of all, there's a lot of that that doesn't make sense to me. And number two, I think that potentially these watchers, these fallen angels, may have been something that we don't realize what they were. It could be. And you've got to think about the remote viewing and compare it to people that can profit or see in the future or these prophecies in the Bible. Yeah, for sure.

I think there's two factions. But what I can say is that the watchers were not good. They were definitely not good. They wanted to become the gods of men on earth, the gods of everyone on earth, the humans. And so if there is any connection to UFOs and UFOs are only maybe what we've talked or heard about from the watchers, that's not a good thing. Yeah, that would make UFOs not good things. But if that were the case, I think that after thousands and thousands of years, we would have been attacked or something.

Maybe. Well, I think. By these orbs. Yeah. They're here and they're everywhere. Well, Hal Putoff, by the way, later on in this podcast, then you guys got to go listen because they actually get into the UFO, UAP topic of this. And that is what Dr. Hal Putoff is most invested in right now.

And what Dr. Hal Puttoff said was, and when Joe Rogan asked him, he said, what do you think about these UFOs? Where are they from? Where did they come from? And Putov said, well, my personal opinion and everything I've researched, and of course, obviously, he's been highly connected to the CIA in government for a long time now. He said, I think they are from another either far out in our galaxy or somewhere else,

but I do think they came a long time ago. And I think they have bases here. And I agree. That's when we talk about, like, for example, he was talking about Australia. I'm talking about California. Off the coast, California. I think there is a base in California. Off the coast.

Catalina Island. Yeah, near there, yeah, for sure. And on our on our substack, which you guys should definitely go and subscribe to, we're going to start posting a lot over on substack. I do have a piece over there talking about the underwater base and, you know, which is by the way recently been blocked by Google. Yeah, and that's so crazy. Why would they block that if they didn't want us to know about it? Well, it was interesting because we had our podcast episode on it like a while back. We did the substack special piece.

And then it was like months later that was blocked. Yeah, which is strange. But guess what? We have the picture still. We have the video. We have everything, which I do want to actually release that maybe on YouTube and X and all that stuff. I want to release the whole thing because it not only talks about the underwater base. I think that's like the last 30 minutes of it, but it talks about extensively other UFO encounters and incidents, especially in that area.

Yes, in that area. And that's what he was talking about with Australia in this part of the area that he was talking about. It was that there was a heavy presence of UFOs there. Well, and here's why. Because they brought in this other remote view. viewer and, you know, he had done some experiments for him and so on. And then one day, this guy said that, hey, you know what? I was just curious.

I wanted to look for UFO bases or something, you know, or whatever because he was bored. He was bored. And so he started looking around and he started looking remote viewing. And he found this mountain in Australia. And this mountain in Australia, he said was a UFO base. That was the first one he had kind of came upon. And so Hal Puttoff and some CIA guys called down to. Australia's government.

They asked some questions about this certain area, but they did not tell them why they were calling and asking about this area. He said, well, what I can tell you is we have a crazy amount of UFO and UIP sightings around this area. And so he was like, holy shit. Bingo. Yeah. So it's nuts.

There's something all connected to this. And I don't think that you have to be on one side of the argument or the other. I don't think that you have to be either God or UFO. I don't think do you have to be any of that stuff? And the unfortunate thing about this community, the UFO community, the UAP community, and even the religious community, it's like everybody wants to fight everybody. It's like always division and especially in UFO community. I remember about two years ago when we were doing UFO episodes quite often. And that was when the UFO community really started to gain some traction.

They started to gain traction. They started to collaborate with each other. They started to do all of us. And then something happened. there were multiple people that came out like Lou Alizando, like the two stars Academy and the Blink 182 guy. And then you had David Gratt. You had so many people that started coming out.

Jeremy Corbell and all these people. And it seemed like when these people started coming out, it was like a grenade in the UFO community to where it just blew everyone apart. You had some people to believe in these people. Some people that did not. And then you had Ashton Forbes. And, you know, Ashton, he was on our podcast. We were the first podcast to have him on.

And I never forget, Sherry, me and you both never forget. Yeah. The first time he came on, he said, I just have to ask you some questions. Number one, are you part of the government anyway, Sherry for him, blah, blah, blah. And I got to give a disclaimer. And I got to do this. I mean, he was freaked out. Yeah.

In the beginning. And so since then, he is just transcended. Yeah, he's blown up. I mean, he's insanely big. He's on news media. News media is talking about him. Everybody's kind of talking about Ashton Forbes. And so that was also another grenade that was thrown into the conversation.

Yeah, but I remember the very first podcast, I said, Ashton, do you not think these are UFOs? I think they're UFOs. He's like, no, I don't think they're UFOs. But I don't think it was until later that he figured out that he thinks it's our technology that did this. Yeah, because, I mean, well, you're talking about MH370. Yeah. The MH370 disappearance in the videos that we're specifically talking about. And I do encourage you guys to go follow Ashton.

Forbes on X or YouTube. But yeah, he's not on X much anymore, he said. No, he's on X. He just don't do, I think, a lot of the live videos. I think he does a lot of his live videos on YouTube now. And Ashton. And Substack, he's there a lot too. I have no idea.

But he's brilliant. He has a brilliant mind. He is kind of. Einstein. Yeah, he's kind of getting into the conversation deeply about a lot of this stuff. And so we were going to have him on tonight, but we got back late tonight. and we're probably likely have him on in a few days because we want to get through. I wanted to get through this episode.

I want to get through Immaculate Constellation episode. And then I want to bring Ashton on to talk about both because Ashton is heavily invested in the Hal Putoff, Dr. Hal Putoff thing. I think Ashton was somewhat disappointed on Dr. Hal Putoff did not discuss certain things that Ashen really wanted him to based on his investigations. And then the Immaculate Constellation, I'll be curious to hear Ashton's point of that. I kind of know where Ashin will go with that. But either way, we have a lot of great stuff coming for you guys.

And it is May the fourth, may the fourth be with you as the bodybuilder Trump White House image is also depicting. And we are very tired. We did not go to bed until way late. We actually went to helped mom move today. They're moving down close to the beach. And we're going to be back here tomorrow. Yeah, definitely. So guys, until next.

time. We love you. Peace out. Peace out, guys.