Investigate Earth Conspiracy Podcast - UFO UAP Conspiracy Podcasts | UFO Twitter and Community with Tupacabra

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

In this episode, we’re joined by Tupacabra from X, the creator behind the UFO Timeline, for an in-depth discussion on the growing toxicity within the UFO community. We explore recent headlines involving figures like Luis Elizondo and others, diving into the controversies and debates shaking up the field. Tupacabra also shares his own personal experiences with alien and spiritual encounters from childhood, offering unique insights into what he believes UFOs might truly represent—and much more. Don’t miss this captivating conversation!Check out the UFO Timeline here 

I'm losing my mind. And that's my me. Summer take. I can't get too far without a... Hello and welcome to Investigator at Podcast. I'm your host chat alongside my beautiful wife, Sherry, on tonight's episode. Guys, we're going to be talking about UFOs again. Has been quite some time since we have talked anything about UFOs besides when

Ashton Forbes come on the show a couple of weeks ago. Obviously, we are in a very tumultuous time in the United States. States as election day is just two days away. But I thought since we're going to be talking about UFOs, the UFO community and everything is new and all the headlines, especially on X, I felt like there was no better person than to have on the show. No other than Tupa Cabra. What is up, man?

What is up, Chad? I'm sure. Good to see you guys. Yeah, you too. You too. Tupa, for those that do not know who you are and I've probably known you now for about a year or so, tell people who you are. I see you all over X, especially in the UFO community.

And obviously, we're going to talk about your amazing, I guess, programming you have recently done. I think you've been working on that a while. But just tell the people who you are. Yeah. So Tupacabra is how I'm, that's my name on Twitter. And I've been using that name and profile to just kind of promote work that I've been doing in the UFO community for a couple years now. Like I think around three could be more. I've been in the UFO topic for a long time, but nothing.

community based, nothing publicly, just my own private interest. But after COVID, I had a lot of free time on my hands. And I've been a videographer for, you know, for a long time, most of my adult life. Yeah. And just making music videos and stuff. And I finally got some moment to breathe. And I thought, like, what do I want to do? For sure.

I figured, hey, I want to make some videos. I'll put my talents to this feel that I love, but never has any good videos, never has any, like, good stuff. it's always looking old or whatever or non-believable, you know? So I was like, I'll just do that. And then as a hobby and I started it and it just kind of took off. I mean, nothing crazy, nothing super viral right away. But the fact that I was coming in with some art, some videography skills, video editing skills. And, you know, I felt like I had like a voice.

I had something to say. Sure. And so pretty quickly around like 2020, 2021, it just kind of picked up. And then I was like sharing ideas I had and designs I had for stuff. And it just got, I was very welcomed by the UFO community online, especially on Twitter. And yeah, that was like pretty much how it started. It has gone a bunch of different directions since then. But yeah, that's how I got started in the UFO community.

Well, what got you interested in UFOs in the first place? Well, when I was a kid, I woke up and there was just like floating woman in my room. And I didn't know, obviously I had no idea what was going. I thought it was a ghost. I'm freaking out. I didn't tell anybody for a long time except for some friends. And then I would watch these like shows like sightings and, you know, unself mysteries.

The 90s were really great for those shows. And it was the only way I could really get any information about what was going on. And it never, it was never repeated. It was, I never saw an alien or anything. I just saw what I thought was a ghost. And then I was watching sightings one night. And I was in second grade, which I don't know why I was allowed to watch sightings that young. But I'm watching one night and my classmate comes on. And I knew her whole family because her mom was

head of the PTA. Her dad came to our school and taught us about dare. Her older sister was in my sister's class. So I knew this girl very well. And her whole family, all of a sudden I'm seeing them on TV. And here's this voice, you know, from sightings being like, this family from Portland, Oregon. I was just blown away. Wow. And so they go on to describe like a haunting. And then they interview the the girl, you know, my classmate, and she explains that at night, this woman shows up in her room. And she drew the woman. It was the same. Blonde, you know, pretty, you know, like glowing and in a dress.

And I'm like, uh, what, dude? So I went to school the next day. You know, I'm about to explode with excitement because I finally have someone to talk to about this. And I get to class and she was zip. She was always, she was always really shy. But she would not talk. about this. I thought that everyone was going to be surrounding her desk. Like, you were on TV.

None of that. No one else was allowed to watch sightings. So no one else knew she was just on TV. I'm the only person. And she was very like, don't say anything about it. And so I didn't. I didn't say much. But yeah. So that was, that's what kind of kicked it off. And obviously, you guys must have lived close to each other being in the same school. Yeah, we would live within two miles of each other. Okay. Well, I just have to say real quick, I know people that listen to us know the same things have happened to me. Like I have always experienced paranormal activity since I was young to the point where I've been paralyzed in the bed, see things like you have. And we also have with Chad, I have actually seen what I feel like are UFOs in the sky. Yeah. So that was why I was

interested in it because that's why I was interested in it. Yeah, there's a lot of people too, like especially as the UFO topic has got so big, you know, there's so many people that often hear it's like, man, I would love to see something. Like, I want. want to see something. I want to believe I want to have an experience. There's people that say and I'm like this. I'm like if I encounter a UFO in the woods and they asked me to get on board, I would probably have to go because I just got to see what's up. I would probably pee my pants first, but then I'm like, yeah. You got to see what I agree. I wouldn't have a serious case of phomo walking into that forest without knowing what wasn't that UFO for sure. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Or a fafo. Yeah, but I was just like you too, like that little girl. were talking about because I didn't want to tell anyone about what was going on. But the same thing was happening to my brother. And my parents never believed us. But it was really happening. And I just feel like some people either have that sense or they don't. And if you have that paranormal like sense or connection or connection, then you're more out to see or at to see, I guess, UFOs. Yeah, for sure. Now, too, so you move on from that. And as you said, you kind of got into video, but you also do a lot of spaces. Do you still do a lot of spaces on X?

Not so much anymore. My account was like mass reported for something that didn't never happen. That's part of the being a public figure, I guess. So there's no real way for me to dispute either. So basically my account, Tupacabra, I've been doing spaces for two years, maybe three, some of the best, I think some of the best UFO conversations I've ever had. And a lot of other people are, if you find them in UFO Twitter or on spaces, they will say that their first space was mine.

So it's just a, it's a travesty. But as soon as I can get that appealed, I'll be doing more spaces. But the time has really allowed me to do a lot more stuff, surprisingly enough. So it's a good break. It's a good break. For sure. All right. So, and I want to get into this because we got to talk about obviously the community.

We got to talk about some of the headlines is kind of out there everywhere. But I want to first start with this amazing program that you have created, which is known as the UFO timeline. and I'd actually told Sherry, I'm a web designer and do marketing and all that stuff during a day. But I was telling Sherry, yeah, I was telling Sherry. I was like, what was it? Two years ago, I said, I want to make something like a timeline. Yeah, like a timeline or just somewhere people can actually go.

You know, if you look at like Mufon reporting and all that stuff. Yeah, it's their website is terrible. And so outdated. And that was one of the things I want to do. And then I saw you kind of unveiled the UFO timeline. I was like, this is exactly what I was sort of thinking, even though I think you probably did a much better job. I would have. Tell me a little bit about it and what what kind of brought you to do this?

Well, I was, I found myself in some highbrow conversations, high level conversations in the UFO field. Again, I had made a big splash on Twitter. I got invited to a Discord. And I thought, you know, I'm suddenly talking to some of my favorite documentary filmmakers, some of my favorite personalities in the community. And I was outgunned, you know, like I'm a hobbyist. I'm on artist. Like, I liked UFOs, but I never sat down and read about, you know, Edward Condon.

And I, you know, I mean, I didn't know who Richard Doty was. Like, you know, I just wasn't that deep into it. I love the topic, but not the paperwork part. And so I'd be in these conversations. And I was like, okay, I guess, whatever. Dates and names are coming up. I've never heard of. And then I finally, you know, like, was just trying to keep track of it.

And in the middle of that, you know, I don't know if you guys know, Red Panta-Cuala. Yeah. the documentary filmmaker. He was in there. We became friends and he brought it up one day. He was like, it'd be really good to have, like, a map of Uphology. And I was like, you know what? Like, that would be really cool.

And I had like a, the kind of iPad I had just gotten. And I was like, this would be really fun to try to build something like this. And when I say build, I meant like draw it out, right? Come up with some kind of thing. Maybe on Adobe Illustrator. I could like make a vector image. You could zoom in. and it would be a cool poster, right?

Like all these different things happening. So that's the original vision. And then I got to doing it and I couldn't stop. I literally every day I'd wake up like, oh, we'd add some more cases. And this is all just a mock up, right? It was nothing interactive. I didn't think it could ever be interactive. And then I showed it.

You know, I got kind of far down the line. And I'm sure I was driving red crazy because I'm sending in like screenshot for screenshot like, oh, I just added this case. Look, this is cool. I changed this to blue. So much stuff. Yeah. And then I finally just shared it on Twitter.

And when I did, it was the most like thing I'd ever posted. It blew up. And I was getting reached out to by a lot of people, people like Gary Nolan. And the list goes on. You know, people from like Roswell UFO museums were hitting me up. It became a focal point. And so I was like, oh, I think I should actually turn this into something. And then there was pretty much a two-year road.

of getting it started from like talking to coders to figuring out how to map it out, realizing how complicated and how crazy it was to try to even try something like this. The practicality of it was shut out the window. Yeah. You know, it's kind of getting further and further every day. And on top of that, the UFO community itself, once I became well known for it, I was getting some warning signs that like it would be, it was almost an idea that was too big for me.

And so eventually, yeah, I was actually even offered a job by Enigma Labs. I don't know if you guys know that company. But yeah, they offered me a job based on my Twitter account and on the timeline. They're like, yeah, we want to basically use it for our stuff. So, you know, I got a lot of attention for it. And it wasn't even a real thing at the time. And yeah, like I said, the two years, you know, off and on, hot and cold. And then finally, I was kind of just watching Twitter and a contest popped up where you could do a UFO monologue on spaces.

And you had a chance to win some money from it. And so I just entered the contest. And I talked about this research I had done about Rosicrucianism and UFO or UFOology, how they were kind of similar. And then a lot of the same people are in both groups. So I was like, well, that's kind of weird. So I just studied I was making a film about it and I just popped into spaces. I did a monologue. I'd let it go.

I didn't think it would be anything and I ended up winning the entire thing first place. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, that is cool. So what all can it do exactly? So it's interactive, right? Yes. Okay. So the UFO timeline finally gets made, right?

So I finally sit down. I have to train myself how to code. I'd never coded anything in my life, never made a website in my life. And I was like, this is I, but again, two years of planning is a lot of ideas, right? So I had a very solid, strong map of how I wanted it to work and what I wanted it to do. So I just figured out that through AI you could make websites by just telling it what you wanted, which is exactly what I, well, that's pretty much my only skill. So I was like, let's do it. And then, yeah, after a week, two weeks, three weeks, I'm like, this is actually working.

And that was in July. And so now we're into November. And I launched it. And so it could do a lot of things. The main thing is that it's comparative research. I gather at all. I'm gathering still. It's going to be always growing.

But the most historic UFO cases that exist, the ones that are acknowledged, of course, we, if we had proof of UFOs, we would be having a different conversation right now. But without the proof, we really just have the stories, the instances. And hopefully through enough comparison, we can start to pull some real good information from this. And then so, yeah, yeah, it can load all the information up. It separates it, categorizes it. Every case is a category. Every case has as a time and a place. And so you have your timeline, totally visible on the front page. Events are there. They're spread out amongst 10 categories, more categories to come. And you can basically look at any, look up any case and see what cases happened in and around that area or in and around that same timeframe. And it's not just UFO cases. It's also things from world history, you know, technological advancements, things you wouldn't know. necessarily think are linked, but could be. And the idea is to look for and identify patterns that haven't been identified yet. You know, there's got to be patterns. There has to be answers here

and within the data. But every time I went to look for it, I couldn't see it because it was all paperwork. It was all very boring. You know, so I just said, let's, let's present this in a way that everybody who has eyes can look at something in their mind can go, why are these grouped up? why is that grouped up over there? What's this weird rhythm of five sightings, five sidings? You know, like that's all stuff that people have never had a chance to do. So I just said, we do that. I think we can maybe open some doors up here.

And that's what that's awesome. Yeah, that's what it can do. Now, is there a way that, you know, multiple people or can other people also report to this? Or right now is it just kind of all the information you're gathering, you're inputting into the actual system? Or maybe people could even reach out to you and report things. I don't know. Great question. Great question.

And so right now, the potential is being built out. But for now, I'm curating the entire list. I'm manually inputting everything. And I'm doing that because I'm trying to create a very solid protocol and a structure for inputting data, even through en masse importing data with AI through a database, right? As long as it can be sorted and sift through in a way that makes sense to UFOology, then I'll be happy to kind of open those doors out. And so I'm just doing baby steps up until that point.

breaking on the protocol, bringing in researchers here and there, and then opening up the door for users to eventually create, there are not only their own cases and submit them to the site, but also their own categories. So every user will be able to have their own user interface. They're looking at a different timeline. They could essentially drag and drop or swap out categories for a publicly made category. So if you wanted to collect data on all the UFO films that have,

ever been made, then you could do that, create an account, pop in, create your own category, and then make that public. And then people can browse public categories and then just pick it. And then they can now compare your data with their data, with the timelines data. So that's the vision in the very near future. But it's baby steps for me. I couldn't code before. Yeah, that's crazy. AI has made things so much easier in a lot of ways. Oh, my God, it's amazing. And, you know, one of the things I thought about is like, if I did something like that back when I was thinking about this, it was like, well, how do you keep out? Like, you know, if you have like false information.

Yeah, just crazy stories or all this stuff. I mean, unless you could figure out a way to where there was like a mass reporting in a certain area to where then it could be reviewed, where you could say, you know, hey, there's 20 people that reported this over this 48 hour period. And then if you could even look at the IP addresses to just determine are these different people versus the same person reported 20 times? And especially with AI now, I mean, so many people can create things and you don't know if they're real now. Yeah, exactly. It's not. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. What do you put in?

What do you keep out? And that's why my plan was always to start with the most historical, relevant, notable cases. Not to say that they're true. This website does not dictate if things are true or not. It gives you all the information, including the debunking information, the doubts, the speculation, all that stuff is in there. It's just good to know. But, you know, for me, I say first round, right, the first layer of this database has to be the historically recognized cases. Then we can start to import people's personal reports from databases like maybe move on, you know, that kind of thing.

Yeah. Now I can, now those cases have a little bit more, let's just say, like places to go. Yeah. Again, you can't. If I don't want people to necessarily get bogged. down looking through the timeline through thousands or hundreds of personal reports that never were corroborated, were never investigated, right? That doesn't, for me, that's not what the timeline really is, not in the first layer. There should always be an option for people to browse through personal reports, but those personal reports should be able to be kind of verified, investigated, and compared to the historical data.

So you find out, like, hey, there's like 17, 7, 4, whatever reports. that were never corroborated from this part of town at this time. But look at this town, which is two miles away, there's a notable report of the same thing. Then you'll start to see like, oh, these might be reporting the same object. Without this kind of database, there's no way to know that. So eventually, yeah, I have to have the solid foundation built on the historical, you know, data that's been investigated. And then from there, I can start to make sense of all the personal reports that might actually

have meat on the bones, but no one ever knew. For sure. That's awesome. I just want to ask one more question about that. I'm sorry because I'm so interested in this. This is awesome. What is the oldest data you started with as far as historical data? I mean, did you start with like caveman pictures or like what is the oldest. I didn't go in chronological order. I went with whatever I remembered first, right? Like, okay, let's say the 50 top case I can call out and the ones that are most memorable. But I'm extremely fascinated with these ancient stories, right? Even as far back as. It's like the 1,100s, 1100s. I mean, you go far back, and it's not only like there, but it's almost described the exact same way. So I made the timeline that it can go back in time indefinitely. You can just keep scrolling back if you wanted to, right? So I want to be able to put in any case, any time for anything.

So the earliest event we have in right now, I think, because I put in historical cases too is like, or historical moments as little bookmarks. and checkpoints so people know where they're at. They can calibrate where they're at of a timeline. We had like the black plague in there. We have the 1561 Nuremberg sightings over at Germany. And I found out through this research that there was another one in the same area, the same year.

Wow. That looked, yeah, I didn't know that before. Basil, I think it was called Basel. But yeah, there are lots of cases in the 1500s, some in the 16th. It just goes on. And I imagine I'll find more. Yeah. You know, it's almost as if every century, every decade within those centuries could have their own special special researcher in there. Yeah, for sure.

Poling and polling and pulling because, you know, and that's actually a really reassuring thing as far as being a ufologist goes, is finding cases wherever you look. Yeah. It's like, oh, there's something here. Well, let me ask you. We've obviously had Ashton Forbes on here many times. We were actually his first podcast he ever came on. And I want to talk about this for a second because, you know, obviously Ashton is on the, I guess you can say, kind of the path of the physics side of things and how possible a lot of the things that we are seeing today are actually our advanced technology. And now that I have you on here, I just got a question for you, how much do you think right now of what we are seeing and just your personal opinion is potentially ours or other countries' advanced technology versus.

you know, aliens or, yeah, or actual crafts from other places or maybe, you know, even some type of interdimensional beings. Yeah. Have you thought, obviously, you've thought a lot about that. But what is your opinion on that? I would assume that like right now, or maybe 80, 20, where 80% is our own stuff. Yeah. I think that would probably be a very practical guess.

You got to imagine, like, even if we came across one or two. two things that were amazing and let's say expanded our knowledge of physics, we would probably create hundreds of those thing, of things that we're trying to copy that tech, right, before we landed on the one. So you're basically like you're saturating the skies with prototypes and with experimental aircraft that are trying to mimic things that I'm sure that they've seen. Yeah. But, you know, a lot of people that, I mean, there's so many reports around bases, right? And it's interesting. You know, Ashton in the MH370 community, I'm using a lot of those guys' research to input scientific discoveries that I think should be reflected in the timeline so that people can go, oh, this amendment happened or this discovery happened, this paper was published.

And for the next three years, sightings went up. Yeah. You know, weird, right? Like, I think that that would be fun information to compare and discover. And so I'm putting all that in. those guys are, yeah, they're really smart about this stuff. A lot of people have been so obsessed with the alien topic, which is great and valuable. But they overlook or almost like personally or purposefully don't look at the mankind explanation, just military tech.

Right, right. And it's interesting that you say 80% could be our technology because that's where I feel like people are starting to be accepting of UAPs. things in the air. But as far as seeing actual aliens are being abducted, I don't think people, like, they still think people are crazy, I guess. Yeah. And I also think adding on to that, you know, over the past year or two, especially, I mean, you think about Fox News reporting, Tucker Carlson coming out on so many podcasts.

And so many mainstream type of people starting to talk about UFOs and starting to talk about, you know, as Tucker Carlson says, you know, the things that he's been told or heard or knows, there's a very dark or sinister side to this that, you know, he didn't even want to reveal to his wife. And but it also seems like it started to kind of shift back the other way. It's almost like, there was a lot of people that felt like, hey, we're, we're so close to quote unquote disclosure. And we're so close to figuring out what this UFO phenomenon is. But then as we got closer, as we felt like we were really close, it seemed like it's kind of shifted back the other way. Do you think that is purposeful? I mean, do, do, do, do,

Do you see a concerted effort right now to try to either downplay the UFO thing more so than we were seeing, say, the past couple of years? I mean, what are you seeing on that? It's really hard to say. Confidently, I can say that I'm seeing a lot of manipulation. I'm seeing a lot of narrative control. And I'm seeing at least two different competing narratives about what could happen and what's happening right now. And they don't mix that well at all. And so there's just, you know, this debate is in the mix, like spiritual or physical.

There's that debate. And I think those, you know, those two belief systems are so strong that they're being kind of like manipulated and taking advantage of. You know, people are those, they're getting thrown out. You know, it's a spiritual war or like these things are coming here. You know, there's these like doomsday prophecies that are being born from these theories. and it's almost like the scariest one wins. Right. So it's tricky there.

It's like you're Republican or you're Democrat, right? I mean, you're, yes. It's one side or the other or even just the advanced tag versus UFOs. Right. But when I was, when we were talking to Ashton, I said, well, why can't it be all of the above? Why can't, why does it have to be one particular thing? What if it's all of it? Yeah.

And I think it is. I do too. I think it's all of it. I think it could be, you know, our technology, spiritual stuff, things coming from other planets or from our own planet. I think it could be all of it. Yeah, one of my main things and my biggest hang up is just how long that reports have been, you know, in ancient text, we have had things, just like you said, to where it describes similar objects in the sky, just, I mean, almost exactly like how many people are describing the things are seeing today. And obviously, the United States does not

have advanced technology, you know, in the 1100s or the, you know, ancient times. And that's the thing that I think really just kind of makes me believe that this is not all obviously advanced technology. There's something a lot bigger to this. But we might have had technology in ancient times and it's been lost. We don't know that for sure. You know, because in my opinion, I go with like the Robert Schaachey type deal where the Earth recycles. And we, you know, it's just like, okay, if we made it to the moon, how come we can't make it to the moon now? Because we don't have that technology.

So, supposedly. Technology gets lost, I think. or or they never had it one of the two yeah yeah right how much of it was propaganda yeah that's a hard thing to decipher the past when there's so much lies involved in it like it's built into the to it so it's it's good to question it it's really really is but that those are great questions right like how long have we had this tech where did it come from is this you know did like was there witchcraft involved in this like you look at cases with you know jack parsons even right these pioneers of the space program were all very much into the occult. They were claiming they were

getting information from these weird rituals and seances. They were talking to like goddesses and you know getting information about what kind of technology to build. Yeah. It's a tricky subject. Yeah. It reminds me when you said that you had saw a woman back when you were young. What do you think about the Chris Bledso story? I'm very fascinated by it. Very fascinated by it. I don't know. I just thought that it was, it felt like the first raw, uncut UFO story I had ever heard

because there were so many weird details in it. And I felt instinctively that if someone was trying to lie to me, they wouldn't do that. They wouldn't put in all these weird details. And I'm very much into, I want to say, like, dream study. Like I'm not super, I don't write my dreams down or anything. But I did for a little while,

maybe a couple weeks when I was a younger, a younger man. And I found it to be incredible experience. Like it was incredible. So I've always been into symbolic representations of things. Right. You know. Yeah, me too. Yeah.

And when I listened to Bledso tell his story, I think first in a Richard Dolan podcast, I think, and then later on, just different moments. I really, yeah, I thought there was a lot of sincerity there and vulnerability there that I didn't hear a lot in experiencer stories. And then, of course, he starts talking about the lady that he ended up encountering some years after his first encounter. And then I was like, oh, wow, because that was like the third. That's the third one I heard.

There was mine. There was my classmates. And then I read a book about Edgar Casey's like life. And then he had one when he was a kid. And so I was like, something's here. Something, that is a strange thing to have that connection. And then I heard Bledso's. And I go, okay, there is something going up.

Then I found out that this lady, the lady, is very popular in these circles. I had no idea that that would ever be a thing. I thought my two interest, UFOs and this one experience I had, I thought they were completely separate and unrelated. Yeah, that's how I have been too always. I was like, yeah, there's something paranormal. Ghosts love me for some reason. I don't know why. But then when we started getting into the topic of UFOs, you see the intermingling of the two.

Yep, yep. And yeah, that's that was, I think, the reason why I won that contest. Because I studied that quite a bit. And I thought I uncovered some very interesting information. And I shared it. And I was like, I hope this doesn't come across as, you know, me on a conspiracy board. Right. Like hope this is like very coherent. Yeah. There's a lot of connections. Yeah. And to the lady thing, you know, it says right here that sometimes liken to the religious figures like our lady of Guadalupe might symbolize purity. guidance or a message of peace and love, aligning with themes of transformation or spiritual awakening. Obviously, the Chris Bledso thing where the lady plays a pivotal role in a spiritual journey associated with the UFO, but even historic and mythological parallels they're talking about here that, you know, in UFOology might draw parallels in mythological or religious figures across cultures where female dities or divine figures often represent life, nature, or cosmic order. And I find it very strange, you know, especially when you know, Chris Bloods that was talking about that and then kind of digging into, you know,

who the lady could have been, who was the lady. And obviously, I guess your, your encounter when you were young was much different. Do you vividly remember that, that woman today? And how did you feel, were you at peace or were you scared? Like, what was the feeling of the whole experience? Oh, it was terrifying. It was a scariest moment in my whole life. I've never in my life been that scared again, not about anything. I woke up and, uh, there was the last. I thought the lights were on. So I was like, is it morning? And I looked at the window and it was still dark.

But the room was lit up. And then I looked the opposite side from my right to my left. And there's a woman in my room. And I'm like, okay. And she's staring at me, like in my eyes, like staring at me, making eye contact. So I felt like she had been looking at me before I looked at her, which made me very uneasy. But as a kid, you know, you're like, okay. Oh, wow.

And then I think I was waiting for her to smile or say something. And she didn't say anything. just kept staring at me. Then I got very scared, very intimidated, like this is serious. And she was pointing up in the sky or towards the ceiling or whatever. And then with one arm. And I think her other arm was down. Like it was just straight down.

And it was. And then I was trying to make sense of it. And when I realized that what I was looking at was absolutely not normal, I just threw my head under my blankets and cried myself to sleep. dude like that's that's what it was that was my experience so i remember vividly but if i went and did like regressive hypnosis or something could i find out more most likely i was at the age where i would have blocked a lot of stuff out right right because like my experiences i and i'm not trying to kidnap the whole podcast but it started probably about the same time age as you and it went

all the way to high school where i would be in these and i never knew is it a dream is this real what is happening to me. And I could feel my body floating out of my body. It was the craziest stuff and the scariest stuff I've ever experienced in my life. I hated it. And I knew it was coming. And I didn't even like to go to sleep that night because of it. Yeah, right?

Like there's a common thing. People can sense that it's about to happen. Something's going to happen. And you have this sense of like loss of control. But also like, you know, well, for me, it created this paranoia that anything could happen at any time. Yeah. You know, when you see something that you, that you know stretches the boundaries of reality, it does shake you up, not just because like, what the hell was that? But also because you're aware now that reality can just melt in place at any time. And so I was always like,

if I was in a walking into a dark room, I'm like, well, the hell's in here. I never thought that it was empty space. You know, I was always waiting for the next scary thing to happen. And nothing ever that terrifying ever happening. I remember praying that night. I remember being mad at like God for showing me that. You know what I mean? I was like I remember being very upset about it. Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, I've dealt with anxiety at different points of my life. And when you have like a massive panic attack at a certain time or a place that you is like the worst time or place you could possibly ever have that. And then as always from that point on, you kind of have this just feeling behind you somewhere that you know that exists, that feeling, that experience. But it's also, you know,

when people have close to death or, you know, close to death experiences or all these different things, you always know that that's there. I mean, or something traumatic happens to you to where it finally wakes you up. There's so many people that go through life on a daily basis. And they feel like what they do, eight, you know, nine to five job and come home and have dinner and go to bed and wake up. And they feel like that's all this out there. But there's so much out there. And I think even like when you listen to Joe Rogan and the DMT stories and all of those experiences, which is, you know, we've talked about many times on the show as well, I do think there's some type of interdementuality to the world and that we just don't see. I mean,

there's definitely things we don't see. And I'm, I'm a big believer that I think the interdimensional side of this UFO topic is, is vast. And I think that there's a lot of stuff in my mind that the government probably knows about that, even if you start looking at some of the declassified docs, but, you know, why are they hiding it? And that kind of leads me to the community and, you know, kind of everybody's arguments with who is the actual whistleblowers who are, you know, controlled disinformation agents like potentially Lou Alessando or even Jeremy Corbell or some of these others. Yeah. Let's first start with the community. How have you seen the community and the UFO side of things, especially before Elon took over Twitter, now X.

How was the UFO community in Twitter? Because obviously the big hashtag was UFO Twitter. They actually still use it on X. How was the UFO community then in comparison to now? And do you see a difference? Yeah. I came into the community around 2021. I think it really kicked off maybe 2019, 2018, something like that.

It could have even been a little earlier. That's all before my time. I've seen to study it up on it. But for me, I popped in and there was a woman named Angelie who had just gotten kind of like, I want to say debunked, but there was a big story about her. She made these big claims. And I guess it was the talk of the town when I popped it. So I remember people being fairly open, right, but still, still a little clicky. But it was, it was an open thing.

And I got a, you know, my story is totally not normal. It's atypical. When I popped in, I was welcomed by a lot of people and a lot of different groups wanted me to come in, be part of their podcast, you know, check out their books. Like I was pretty much welcomed everywhere I went. And so my experience was very unique. And it was great. And then when it, when I realized that the community was actually really weird and bad was, you know, of course.

when I got canceled by it. And that was, there were signs beforehand that things were getting weird. I noticed that there were a lot of, very militant. And I don't mean military-esque, I just mean like very like gang mentality style groups forming around key figures, one of them being Lou Elizondo. Basically, you couldn't question him. And if you did, you were questioning disclosure. And anyone that was questioning him, I was told.

And so was the community, those people that were questioning him were either working for the government, going out of their way to hate on a good man, just the same old kind of stories. And this would continue, I found, through multiple other personalities, right? And then I would later find out that those personalities all knew each other and most of them weren't businesses together. So the same group of like keystone people, like upper tier, not even UFOology, but just science. government, like the guys who weren't necessarily euphologists, but were gracing the UFO community with their presence, those guys all knew each other. And I found that to be very weird. And the the gang kind of style mentality of insulating those people from

criticism was getting more and more intense as 2001 kind of war on. We get in 2022, and it was, it was more of it. By this time, there were total podcasts that had completely gone under because there was this like moment where Lou was going on multiple podcasts and then suddenly cut a lot of them off. And the ones that got cut off were like talking about it like, hey, I think something as bad as happening. And then they got smeared as just being, you know, naysayers and people who were upset because, you know, the story was they had broken Luz trust or something.

And then so they were at fault. And like, and so I was like, okay. So within a year, you lose like 20 podcast. It's just a, then people are reporting that they're being like kind of harassed. And I thought that was all very strange. But still, I'm being welcomed by everybody. So I'm like, this is all fine. I don't know what, you know, maybe they got a problem. You know, I'm not very proud of the way I was looking at it, but I had no real context or no one was even walking me through this. There was no one saying, hey, watch out. And then eventually, um, I was being told by people who I had never reached out to who got my number from me being in a signal group chat with some other like people who were just really nice people looking into UFOs down at like Ross Coldheart was in this group a bunch of

other people became members of this like little signal chat and um yeah I was getting calls from people uh the people that knew Lou and that were like telling me not to go on certain podcast because certain people had criticized him and I was like this is weird you know uh and I'm not going to do that. And I remember I went on to a episode that was like UCR, the Unidentified Celebrity Review Show. And by this time,

Lou Jimenez was kind of like a persona non grata because him and his co-host asked Lou Elizondo a tough question about some sock puppets that Elizondo was running. And they accused him of like

coordinating harassment of other people through these accounts. And I thought that was way over the line. So I remember kind of mocking Hamines and his co-hosts for approaching Elizondo that way. I remember thinking that was really ridiculous of them. And so I ended up going on a show later on, though, to promote something where we review the movie, Nope. And like, I noticed a little aftershock of that was happening online. Basically, if you walk out, if you step out of line too much, now suddenly you're getting weird criticisms.

Like, there was rumors that. I was stealing my art because I was putting art on t-shirts and stuff and I drew and drew everything and so all this like it was AI all this rumors began to spin around I couldn't figure where they're coming from why it was happening you know and then I was doing live streams on my YouTube channel and Lou Elizondo released an article September 5th 2022 that said why UFOology must die and in it 11 he lists 11 different ways he wants to, and not in a list, literally throughout this short article, there's 11 different separate mentions of different ways in which he wants to kill Uphology, blow it up in a million

pieces, tear it to shreds, and all because of his criticisms of it. He thought that, like, Lou Elizondo thought that he had the right vision for it, which is fine, but the idea of going that extensive on how you want to tear it down and that people need to go. I thought it was really weird. And I remember I live streamed a review of it. I was like, oh, yeah, this is kind of wild. I think euophology is fine. I'm a proud eulophologist. I think maybe Elizonda went a little too far there. And then, yeah, it was very shortly after that that I was pretty much targeted by groups of people pretending to be friends of mine were in group chats, found their way, you know, were asking me to be part of the timeline project, people that were just around

for a while. I later found out that they were actually coordinating an attack. And they were doing that I wasn't the first person they were doing this too. And so they gather as much information as they thought they needed and they began their little cancellation of me. And I didn't know what was happening at first. I didn't understand like why. I thought maybe just one or two people didn't like me, which is totally fine. I'm not the most likable person. I don't care. But it was, I was quickly informed by a lot of people that this

was an organized thing. A lot of people were helping, were like, hey, just so you know, are you thinking this is weird, how coordinated this is? And I was like, yeah, it is, you know, but whatever. And they're like, all right,

just pay attention. Just wait and find out. Yeah, yeah. And by the way, and to your point, as you're talking here, I know that Red Panda, as we talked about earlier,

I know he's been calling out a lot and kind of sharing a lot of stuff. Now, who is, you got to ask this question as you're talking about all this stuff. Who is this King Miltfart dude? That's his name. King, that's his name.

Yeah. King Milk Fart. We'll use his handle, King Milk Fart. Yes. Well, I became aware of him because after I streamed the criticism of Luz article, King Milk Fart began to sift through, he went through every single one of my art pieces, my merchandise, whatever I was selling out of website. I had tubicobra.com.

Not my website anymore. But it was cool. T-shirts, stuff like that. I was trying to fund the creation of the timeline. At the time, I was getting quotes of like $80,000 to have somebody make it. So I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do, but it ain't going to be free, dude. So I was like, I'll just sell some merch, right?

So he was going through, he was accusing every single drawing of being, you know, stolen or whatever. And it was it was obnoxious, but I just thought it was nothing, right? But it was like a, it was a lot of stuff, right? So then King Melfort ends up coordinating with other people. In my cancellation, he was a huge part of it. And this is because he, and I'm trying not to get in the weeds too much here, but basically there were these little UFO events that were taking place in New York City. I went to the very first one, loved it, thought it was great, met a lot of great people there.

And then there was another one. And on this one, I didn't go to it. I had a ticket for it. I didn't attend. And there was a video talked about afterwards. apparently King Milkfart was confronted or confronted another UFO personality content creator, a man by the name of Project Unity, followed by Joe Rogan, he does great work. Tim Richett's first interview about aliens and stuff, like he does great work.

And this King Milkfarke character was saying that he had a video proving that this Project Unity guy was a violent psychopath and was like, had attacked him. And it was, I was like, well, this is kind of weird. And I was watching it play out. And eventually this King Milfart guy shared the video. And there was like no attack. There was just a, hey, you're talking trash on the internet. Because King Milkfort was attacking him online and attacking his Patreon supporters, calling him a Putin apologist and saying that he didn't support the Ukrainian war.

Because Project Unity tweeted once, I think that it's more complex. It's not a black and white issue. Well, to this group, it definitely was. and I'll explain this group in just a second. But I basically, I criticized that video. Are they talking about Russia and Ukraine? It's not a... Absolutely.

They took a very hard stance on the Russia, Ukraine. Very weird, right? Yeah. So, yeah, so that happened. And then I criticized it, boom, you know, this was in December, 2022 and then, or 2021. Yeah, it was wild. Then I find out very close.

very with a lot more proximity than I'd like who King Milkfart is he is an attack dog for this basically it's a marauding group of Taliban-esque people who think they can control the UFO topic it took me a long time to figure out exactly why they thought this and who they were connected to and what their goal was but through just observing their behavior I can confidently say I'm very well aware this group, what they do, why they do it, how they do it, and what methods they use to do it. And this is also a big credit to Red Panda and also the countless other victims out there of this group, of which there are dozens. And it's shocking how far back this goes. But there is a group of people not only on Twitter, but Reddit and elsewhere, who are working hand in hand

with this UAP disclosure group, very big names. They're working hand in hand, and their job is to control the conversation online to promote certain narratives, to make it look like it's natural, organic, you know, talking points. And then to also, this is the unique thing to them, because, you know, promotions, anyone can do marketing. Unique to them is they will attack and destroy anyone

else who's not either on board with them or is a direct threat to them and in the narrative. Now, okay, so what do you think the narrative is that this group? I mean, what, what are they trying to push more so than not push? Are they trying to push the UFO topic more or are they trying to push something else? Great question. And I think it's a two-part thing. One part is, is what I think was being presented, which is that there is an organized group of scientists, researchers, government people who know that something's going on, right? And they want, they want to get it out. out and they don't really know all the pieces, but they think the government has them, and they're trying to pressure the government to come out with what they know. This group is not the government.

This group has members within the government, but this group is also its own thing that's been around for a long time. It is actually a modern offshoot of an older thing. And so there's a group of like religious people, mystics, Christian mystics, who believe that this phenomenon is going to reveal things like the soul, things like angels, things like, you know, messengers of God, these types of things. They fully believe this is happening. And what they want is the government to come out with what they know so they can start to get this out because they think it'll help people.

That's a real thing. And there are a lot of people, I think, who really believe this. But then there's also this other thing. And this is really, I call it corny and it is very corny until you see what is what is what has happened. Then it becomes very serious. But I believe that the other side of it is literally about just Lou Elizondo created a group of people online to do really terrible things and let them do it, encourage them to do it to protect him and him alone. Not the narrative, not the not the overarching spiritual, no. There is, I fully believe that Elizondo has

recruited veterans and at-risk people with traumatic brain injuries. The list goes on like personality disorders in order to create an online militia. Right. To control the narrative to benefit him and him alone. His groupies. Yes. And you think about even in other aspects of the web and you think about even like true crime, there's groupies in true crime where they do that and they go and they attack and they shut down and they sue and they do these things.

and it's all because of the influence, usually, of the one person. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Very common. Very common thing. It's not, it's not like, yeah, it's not outlandish. But what, what sucks is that, you know, it's a bit of a wet blanket.

Yeah. Because I know people in the UFO community who are finally starting to see this, and they're trying to go to like, well, maybe, maybe, like, Lou's been doing this to create a distraction. It's like, no, no, no. Like, you know, sometimes the buck stops. where it stops. Yeah. And that's just what happens.

And so I think, yeah. And I keep thinking about real quick, I keep thinking about Bob Lazard. Like what happened to him? He was stripped of all of his creditation or credits or. Yeah, credentials. Credential. Sorry, I can't think of the word. He was stripped of everything.

Yeah. And yeah, for sure. I mean, the Bob Lazar thing is fascinating. There are so many others as well. I want to get to a quick clip as we're talking about Lou Alizano. This is a Julian Dory podcast. And this is a clip from the Julian Dore. podcast where Julian is basically just asking Lou, you know, how does he classify himself in the three

categories? Listen. Maybe. There we go. I see three doors with you. I'm going to maybe there's like five, but we're going to put it down to three. Number one is, you know, let's call it like the Stephen Green Street door. He's completely full of shit. He's making it all up. There's no record of anything. And I disagree with Stephen on some of the evidence that he's uncovered there. But he's like kind of the heel to it, right? He's the opposite. The second door is you're either mostly telling the truth or like almost all the truth. Maybe there's some things that, you know, you reviewed the evidence and you got it wrong. But like you're out here and you're actually giving all the information and it's in a purely kind of benevolent way like you've said where you feel like you have a moral duty to tell people

things that they have a right to know, that humanity has a right to know to say nothing of the United States of America's citizens. The third door is it's a mix. And the third door could be, that it's like, you know, and this is a strong word to use, but it could be like some sort of sci-op. Where, let me just paint a picture here, you guys on the back end, you know, a 22-year intelligence veteran, if you're still in, a 29-year intelligence veteran, you have access to such crazy information that you have been able to simulate how society may handle this information if it was given to them. To the point that you are able to see using all your great tools back there, they're like, ooh, this could cause ontological shock or an existential crisis if we just dump this on people. Therefore, someone like a Lou Alizando, someone like a Chris Mellon, someone like a David Grush could be sent out there to reveal some

truths in the midst of other stuff that might not be true or more likely revealing truths to make it sound really important when in reality the crazier shit is over here and you want to, I don't know, limited hangout, get people away to focus on this. So when you look at these three doors, obviously the first one you're going to disagree with, which is that, you know, a loose full of shit, his career wasn't real. But when you look at the other two doors, could you see why people might make the argument on door three there? I can see why people see all three doors. That's that's, that's, and there's more doors than that. I mean, I can, I can tell you the door that, that I, that I, that I think I'm in.

Okay. Yeah. Let's hear that. But it's, it's a little different. First of all, let me put cards on the table. If you ask me to choose between national security and disclosure, like real national security, I will, always choose national security. I've never made any bones about it. I love my country and I will protect and defend this country. Period. Full stop. Secondly, I want government accountability. That's what I want, whether it's with this topic or another topic. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. I am very concerned, and it's probably because my old generation, based upon the previous studies, that some people can find this information disruptive. what we call catastrophic disclosure.

I don't want that. I want constructive disclosure. I want to tell the American people, let them have whatever they can have legally, up to that point that they can't have it anymore. That's not my decision to make. All I can do is continue to try to push for it. Ultimately, it's the government's decision to do that. And I won't override the government. I won't do it.

I've made it very, very clear. I am not trying to hurt or disrupt our government. I'm trying to help it. It's backed itself into a corner for 70 years plus, potentially, for decades. And now we're at a point that people have the lowest level of faith and confidence in our government and our institutions. Why? Because we haven't been honest with the American people. Well, the Pentagon never lies, right?

Unless you talk about the Pentagon Papers. Unless you talk about, you know, Iran-Contra. Unless you talk about the Afghanistan withdrawal. I mean, we haven't been. And our government has done some terrible things to people in the past. Look at the syphilis experiments. Oh, yeah. We let people die, man.

I mean, that's die. Government killing people? It would never happen. Yeah, right. So, you know, my point being is that the government hasn't always been necessarily looking at the best interests of the American people. But this is a topic, I think, where I always believe that America can handle the truth. I think America deserves the truth. And I think there's a right and wrong way to have a conversation.

And I want us to have a conversation, like I said, both from a national security perspective, but then there's the other part of the conversation that affects everybody differently and yet equally, right? Whether it's philosophically or psychologically or sociologically or even theologically. My hope is that the American people can have the conversation for themselves and at that point make the decision what it means to you. And if at the end of the day, you guys say, yeah, great, me, we get a big Mac. fine but at least you had the opportunity to have that conversation right you can then you make that decision for yourself and at that day i will i will work at walmart i'm cool no sweat done but at least be able to have the conversation that's ready to go that is lou alizando on the

julian dory so and you know there's a couple things obviously stand out to me and some of the things he says here which is number one i will never um i will are sorry i will always defend national security first, which in many people's minds, maybe that's what Lou Alizondo is doing right now. You know, he's out there on the, he's out there on the campaign trail, talking about the UFO side of things, rather trying to shift the narrative away from, I guess, advanced technology like maybe Ashton Forbes talks about with MSRy 70 thing and putting the light on the UFO topic. That is what many people believe potentially is what Lou Alizondo is doing as a disinformation

agent. But also, you know, he's talking about 70 years here. He's talking about, you know, I think in both ways, the amount of times he talks about him in national security, obviously, to me, means that he knows that we have technology very similar to this. But it's almost like he's also saying, but I also know where we got this from, potentially. So where is Lou Alessando wrong, I guess, or just shady? What door is he at?

Yeah. Is it door one, which is he's completely full of shit? Is he, you know, kind of a mix of both, or is he all the way honest? What is your thoughts, too? I think he's completely full of shit. Okay. I don't, I mean, I've been looking, like, someone like Stephen Green Street has looked at Lou Elizondo in a way that I probably never care, right? Like, gone through, looked at the stuff he's actually done.

Like, where's the paperwork for these claims? And he can tell you, and he would tell you. And he has in several different pieces, right? That this guy is not who he says he is. He is lying and he's lying a lot. And he's lying about things that people he's worked with are uncomfortable watching him do. They're uncomfortable watching him lie about this stuff. I mean, there's a growing sentiment with people he's worked with very closely,

people he's worked underneath in these departments that it's growing. and the contempt, the concern, the shock. Honestly, like, the shock of watching this guy go up there and kind of claim to be doing these things and have this information. And so I think that he's, I think, I don't know if you're familiar with Jay Stratton. I've heard the name. Jay Staten is essentially who Lou Elizondo is role playing as. Jay Stratton was the one, he worked above Lou in the Ossapper, whatever these departments were, right?

And so there were a lot of people that worked above Lou. And they say Lou was brought in to help them determine if the things they were seeing and studying UFOs and UAPs were Chinese or Russian. That was his only job. And in that process, he became the kind of in-between guy for other things too. He'd like go out and talk to people, recruit people like, you know, he was, he was a middleman essentially for this group. And he was good at it. And so when Tom DeLong

went on Joe Rogan and had a terrible interview and almost like kind of like tanked the whole conversation, I don't know if we're familiar with this moment, but he kept showing Joe Rogan a bunch of fake videos. And Joe Rogan was like, dude, what? This looks fake, dude. And Tom DeLong's excitement was just too much, right? He was getting too, so he couldn't even have a real conversation with Joe about it. He was just too excited to tell Joe all this cool stuff that he had come to find out. But it made him look kind of like a sucker because he was showing Joe clearly fake videos and he's claiming that they're 100% real. So there's a disconnect there. And by the way, Tom DeLong is to the Stars Academy. He created, I think alongside Lou Alizondon, right? And or at least he brought in Lou Alizando and Tom

DeLong, yeah, Blink 182 guy, you know, the whole nine. Oh yeah. Yeah, Blink 180. frontman ended up talking to John Podesta and many other UFO insiders in the government and was asked to join the effort to help make UFOs to rebrand them, first of all, into UAPs and then to make it more palatable for the public, which is weird also, by the way, but, you know, uh, yep, it's very strange. And, uh, so he did do that. But then again, yeah, he had this terrible interview on Joe Rogan and they had to switch it up. So part of that switch up was to the Stars Academy. I don't think that was a direct result from the interview

was already in the works, but to the Stars Academy was an entertainment kind of tech company, and they started up with Howe Put Off in Christopher Mellon and Jim Simivan from the CIA, and then Lou Elizondo as a director of security.

And when Tom DeLong introduced Lou Elizondo at their hearing, or their first press conference, which was the, you know, surprise, surprise, the 100th anniversary of the Lady Fatima apparition that occurred in Portugal.

It's kind of odd that they would pick that day. It's very weird. But they did. And so 2017, this comes out, and they claim they're going to make UFOs. And then he introduces Loisando as like this guy who is like the it guy,

the guy who knows, you know, he's a serious UFO government guy, all this stuff. And he comes out. And then Elizondo just kind of like, you know, and has been involved with this ever since.

And apparently, according to people who know him, this is according to Michelle Stratton, Jay Stratton's wife, that Lou immediately began to tell lies and exaggerate his position, what he knew. And then to do that, it wasn't just about kind of light exaggeration. He was actually adopting other people's stories.

So he was taking accounts from James Lackatsky, from Jay Stratton. from Stratton's family, right? And he was repackaging them in the moment during interviews as something he encountered. And so that was becoming an issue for a lot of people behind the scenes. But no one said anything. So what we have here is more like those are just, that's a small example of it. That's been going on since 2017.

That's been going for a long time. Well, he said that the government is never honest. And the apple does not fall far from the tree. Yeah. Yes. It's true. It's classic disinformation. Yeah.

Yeah. But you know what the funny thing, too, but is there's probably people listening right now. And, you know, you created the UFO timeline. You're obviously heavily involved in the UFO community and just not the community, just the UFO realm. I, you know, and you're kind of going, you are going against Lou Alizando, which if you are like, you know, just this random UFO person that wants the UFO is to be real, Lou Alessando might be your guy. He would be the guy that you're going to listen to. He's going to be, you know, he's going to be. you know, he's an intelligence officer, 26 plus years.

You know, this is the dude that's like, hey, it's finally proof. So what is it obviously beyond everything else? You know, I, it's strange to me because I think, I think what you're doing is trying to be honest, right? Which is. Yeah. Which is so weird in the UFO community. I think honesty is really good. You know, when I first came in here, the first videos I made, right?

Like I was videographer. What do I do? I can edit videos. The first ones I put together with sound and music and B-roll footage and, you know, was of Louis Lazzondo's talks. I spent hours, you know what I mean? Taking his words, not because he was the loudest voice in the room, but because I was sold, dude.

I thought that he knew what he was talking about. I was like, okay, this is the guy. He's finally presenting this topic in a way. You know, the same thing I wanted to do, right? Start making it look and feel real. stop with this whole X-Files and used like you know stop with all that let's just make it as real as it really is he came in and he was a great um a great companion you know in that in that aspect in that journey so i like Lou a lot for a long time and i wanted to continue to like him

and there was you know there was a couple things that happened where i was okay this is actually kind of strange you know his behavior was a little strange but all personal stuff like what are you going to do. The issue that I developed for Lou Elizondo was over the course of a year or two of him outright supporting, encouraging, enabling, and platforming the people within the UFO community who come to be known as the UFO hate group. I mean, these are people who will attack your family, your children, will go through your family's Facebook accounts, pull out

all the sensitive information, start trying to intimidate you with it, share your mother's criminal record. Call your job, do all that. Oh, God, the calling of the jobs. Like, these are, I mean, they, yes, all of this stuff happened and I watched it happen

to other people. Okay? And then I was like, that sucks for them. Then it happened to me. Then I was able to catalog it and be like, wait, those other instances probably weren't random either when I saw this happening to other people. I began, I took a very, I took it very personally because it was my livelihood. They came after everything about me. They came after my friends, my family, right?

I mean, very intense things. They were making claims. They were creating websites for me. They were sharing, you know, whatever, they were doing the most, right? Taking pictures of me and my kids, making grinder accounts with them. The things I'm saying, they really happen. and I'm not talking about online criticism. I'm not even talking about really online harassment.

This is a federal offense. The things that have been done are outright criminal. And they've been happening not just to me and not just to me for this long. These are things have been going on for a long time to people. And it's always the same core group of people. I was shocked. My jaw on the floor. I refused to believe it when I realized how.

connected Lou Elizondo is to every core individual within this hate group. I could not believe it. I've refused. It took a long time and a lot of different things to make me realize what was happening. And I'm telling you, as shocking and as gross and as awful as it is, that's what's happening. And I've tried to call attention to it. Me and Red have. And, you know, it's so much, It's so well studied and so well founded this information. So do you think they're trying to keep people's, I mean, you know, just from a Lou Alessandro perspective, do you think they're trying to, what do you think the goal or motive is?

I mean, do you think they're trying to sway people away from advanced tech or, I mean, especially you as a UFO guy, do you think they're trying to kind of hide that in a way that, you know, they're trying to prop up the UFO story or what is, what is your beliefs of the motive? behind it's it's it's really corny they were there are a group of people who've been with they've been completely um recruited to do one thing and one thing only and that's to protect lou elizando's reputation it is it is not to protect disclosure do they think that i think that the hate group

itself that this group of people they are being told things that that are not true And I know for, I know for sure things are being told are about like the coming apocalypse, the impending alien threat narrative, you know. So, you know, you, again, a lot of people when they come across this, when they stumble across what this is, they want to say this must be part of the larger conspiracy of silence. Maybe they're trying to discredit UFology, maybe lose doing this for the government to discredit it. Right. Maybe he's giving them an out, right?

I have not seen any evidence for that. The only thing I've seen is that Lou took it upon himself, and this is according to not just me thinking this, people that work with Lou, people that have worked with Lou on projects from TV shows to actual these government things, to people who were companies with him. He began to lie once the spotlight got on him.

He enjoyed it a lot. He is the director of security for To the Stars Academy, or at least he was. it seems like what he did was recruit people to help him online with some of the, some of the conversation. It's been shown and proven multiple times how much Lou obsesses over every single comment made about him online. He obsesses over it.

He has said it himself, right? He has said it himself in multiple interviews. Like he reads everything. And I really believe it just kind of got to him. And I know, I'm sorry. I was going to say, I know it sounds corny too, but Dr. Phil would call him a cyber bully and all of his other people, cyber bullies and bystandards. Yes. Yes. That's exactly right. We need Dr. Phil on for this. We really do. If I could get a lot and talk to Dr. Phil, I'd be really excited. But I know I'm not painting him in the best light. I know that. But again, I've, I'm looking at this. What, you know, and then things have developed where it's just, I'm sorry to say it, but that's my view of it. I really do think that a lot of the worst behavior that we've seen that I've seen that I've,

encountered in the UFO community, the reason why it's so strongly divided is because Lou's group has decided that they wanted to tear down UFOology. And they've been trying to do that ever since, not because of a government thing, but because I think Lou wants to rebuild it back up in his image, the way he sees fit. And so he is, you know, with his military background, his family upbringing, his intelligence background. He calls himself the tortures are the Darth Vader of the American government. These are phrases that he wrote about

himself in his book. He really just kind of insulated himself. And is he responsible for every single thing that someone like King Milk Park does online? No, that guy's going to, he has to own those things on his own. Right. But he definitely has never not once stopped

it or criticized it or anything. All encouraging, always encouraging. And so, So yeah, it looks like it's just built there to protect him so that he can build up this idea. And they're very loud because he's a loud guy. I mean, it's, you know. Wow, obviously. Well, too, I just want to apologize to you from them.

I hate what you went through because I can only imagine I've gone through a little bit of that. And it was devastating, especially when people are going into your family and calling your friends and your family and threatening them and calling your job and giving out your address and your phone number. That is scary stuff. Well, we, you know, I apologize that you had to even go through that. I am so sorry and I'm glad to hear that you're back, you know, up and running. Oh, yeah. It never really slowed me down. It was just awful to see it.

Yeah. And then the worst part was kind of going back into the back catalog and looking at how many people this had happened to before me. People that I knew. And then I had to remember that like I had actually sat by and watched it happen. I didn't realize what was going on, right? So that was that was like a tough thing, but I never really got knocked out of the game or whatever. It just was, it was very, and I appreciate the apology, but it was very hard to deal with. It was.

I was a fair amount. It's very sophisticated. I consider it military grade, you know, intelligence, you know, operations against civilians. Yeah, coordinated. Yes, it's funny because we've talked about everything on this podcast. And so we've had, we've, it felt like at times we've had entire countries send us emails. Like countries of people. But I'm telling you.

They're like, this is our opinion. F you and whatever. Yeah, the people that want to kill us don't even bother me. What kills me the most is when we're talking about true crime or something and all these women. Don't even say it. Don't even tell them. I shouldn't. But they are so mean.

I don't even say it. Don't even give. Don't give the women credit. The women can be the worst sometimes and especially in certain communities. But we know all about this. It's a very cult-like thing. And when you get cultism, you get this type of deal and then you've got these leaders that can pop up and they feel that this is their

obligation to do this i get another quick clip uh too but we're not going to keep you much longer but i want you to well i have a couple questions based on this two minute clip but let's listen real quick and by the way this is this is dr stephen greer we're listening to on the sean ryan podcast and then we're also going to listen to lou al zondo's response to this well you know i have 755 whistleblowers. You have 755 whistleblowers? I mean, this archive is unbelievable. You would mention that you...

What do you think about what he says? Because, well, where are the whistleblowers? Lou Alessander now. It's not. I don't ever tell you, man. I mean, wait, look, where are the whistleblowers, you know? So that was the... On my own radar, start picking up.

Sorry, I'm going to turn it off. So, yeah. So basically, you know, you have Dr. Stephen Greer goes on, talks about all these whistleblowers, then, you know, Lou Alizando was on Patrick Bed-David. And he's like, where was all the whistleblowers? What do you think, by the way, about Dr. Stephen Greer? Do you believe that he is one of those people out there, kind of either so in disinformation

or full of shit himself or what is your thoughts on Stephen Greer? I did. I'm very put off by Greer. If I met him, I'm sure he'd be great. I would like probably enjoy a beer with him. Not too many, though, but I would enjoy a beer with them. But when I got into the into the community, I thought that he was kind of like more on the,

the goofier side. And I thought that he was like less credible. And over the, over the course of like, you know, a lot of spaces and stuff, I've even had Greer. I call him Greer groupies will come in, right?

And be like, you know, why isn't Greer getting any acknowledgement? I'm like, what, dude? Like, because he seems so, um, theatrical, right? Like, you know, he brings a theatrical element.

to it where Elizondo brought a very based calm element to it. That was that to me seemed more strategic. But yeah, over the years, I've really gained a lot of respect for Greer. And I've come to really start to examine the things that he's saying while being very theatrical. A lot of the stuff that he said has come to fruition. Right. And so when you look at the beef between Elizondo and Greer, it really comes down to the threat narrative versus what people call the love and light narrative.

And that's the motive of these so-called aliens. One of, you know, Elizondo is full on these, it's a threat. We need to deal with this as a threat. He's a military guy. Maybe it's maybe to every hammer or to a hammer, everything's a nail. Maybe that's what that is, right? But at the very least, it is the case. Elizondo is also utilized the threat narrative to gain the confidence of some of the people

doing very terrible things out there in the world, in his name. And so the threat narrative works for Elizondo. For Greer, it's the opposite. The threat narrative destroys it because he's asking people to go make contact on their own through human initiated contact or CE5. And he's saying that these beings want to bring happiness and love to you. Right. And so they got different opinions. Elizondo called Stephen Greer a terrorist, right?

Called him a terrorist. okay and and so there's a back there's a back and forth and in that uh patrick bet david interview elizondo accuses greer of like paying to have flares dropped by a cessna in the area that he was having his C5 to like basically to trick his C the people who just paid him probably a grand to go see lights in the sky right and so that's that's that's another kind of rumor that elizondo in his camp that's how they that's how they function if you listen to him in that interview, you know, these little like kind of con manny kind of backhanded, oh, you want to listen to a guy who drops flares out of a sesta? Just very, very interesting.

Condescending, yeah. And by the way, we have quite a few listeners, by the way, that have participated in these C-E-5 events. We've got emails from them. We get messages from them. They have sent us tons of videos. We're actually going to probably have someone on the podcast. Probably need to do it soon, actually, after this episode. But we also have a girl that. that has not participated. No, no, no, she has. Oh, she did? Yes.

Okay. And so part of what she does at certain times at night is does this C-5 type thing, right? And I believe it. And these videos that she presents often, like almost every single night to us. She can summon these things. She shows these things. And it's very strange. So maybe they're-

I believe it because I feel like you have to have that, that spirituality or the interdimensional or something where you can connect with these things. Or a Cessna. Yeah, something. Not a Cessna. Maybe there's a Cessna outside her house. That should be, would be hilarious.

But, you know, like, even like the, like, the Bledzos. I don't know if you know this, but they have, they're like award-winning, RC airplane pilots. Oh, really? So did you know that? No, they did not know that. Yeah, yeah.

So there's always, there's always room for a little, a little fuckery. but the the uh the c e5 thing there's something to it there's something to it i remember there was a guy the prophet yahway uh back in the he passed away since then but i think it was around the Vegas area he called the news crew and he was just a guy in a park he was wearing white shirt white pants he's an older black guy and he said that he could summon UFOs so they bring a camera and they're looking up with the sky and he starts praying and a white orb shows up and and like then you have um uh dorothy i i i i i i don't know um uh dorothy i

at, right, of like Vancouver, BC, Canada, who for, fuck, I don't know, 30 years, 30 years plus was recording UFOs almost every night with her Super 8 camera. And she had like over miles. Yeah, I read her story. Yeah, right. She's got like 30,000 feet of footage and it's all been corroborated and confirmed. Some of it appears to have beings in it. There's a great documentary of hers called Capturing the Light on Amazon Prime right now.

but I recommend it. It's a short 50-minute watch. But yeah, there's something to it. She was having a conscious connection to these things. The reason why she was able to film them so much is because she could, she got a signal like a frequency, like a beep, something in her head, a buzzing. When she's like, oh, they're here. And she'd go outside and sure enough. And they're there.

Yeah. And I feel like people do have that. Yeah. Yeah. I think so too. What is your, what is your spiritual belief, Tupa? This will be the last question. we can kind of get into. But what is your spiritual belief as far as belief in God or or especially

just, you know, your involvement and belief in the UFO topic? And how does, if any, spiritual belief, I guess, contributes to that? Wow. Tough question, right? Well, I like a group atheist, but I was very curious about religions. I would go to churches and stuff. I'd go to a church events. I was very curious about it. Catholic churches too were very cool and kind of Gothic. And I remember trying to read the Bible a couple times just because I thought, you know, sure, I'll do that, you know. And it never made sense to me. And I was proudly atheistic or whatever for a long time. And then I read a book by Edgar Casey or about Edgar Casey when I took a Greyhound bus to L.A. one time. I was like 19. And that got me thinking about the potential scientific

discoveries that could be there for the spiritual side, which excited me. You know, there's something new to that. And I started to learn about like spiritual science and all independent, never, never a church or anything. And I've since then, you know, believed that there was a God of some kind and, you know, got really interested in how the communication between mankind and God would exist. or would go about. And so really fascinated with like prophecies and people throughout history who've encountered

these in the way that history can change through these different visions and experiences, almost like dream state stuff. Really like that stuff, man. And yeah, then that thing happened to me as a kid. So I was, you know, a little more open to it. And then when I got into UFOs like at a real level, like, you know, to talk about it with other people, group research, sharing videos, I found out that, you know, that like the research I did into Edgar Casey in spiritual science was like very front and center

of the UFO topic, but wasn't talked about that that often or even even at all. Yeah, because you're either religion or you're not religion. And science is not religion. Exactly. And so I just realized that my background, my background fascination in religious studies was was having a huge benefit in the UFO world. A lot of people still don't know how to make sense. of an angel or, you know, I'm not saying that I know what it is, but conceptually, I understand

the thing, right? The process of it or the likelihood that something like that could be around, but there could be these non-human, non-physical, intelligent things that just don't have bodies and, you know, very obscure, abstract thoughts that are, I'm used to thinking about. It's done me a huge service in the UFO community. Yeah. You know, it really, really has. And I, and I would recommend some form of spiritual science studies for anyone wanting to get into the UFO topic, you know, go look up the old guard, right, of like John D to Francis Bacon, you know, this like in the 1500s, 1600s, you'll find, you know, these guys referenced in their work referenced in modern uophology all the time. You'll find it, like by people like Jacques Valet,

Jalen Heineck, Diana Posulka, Hal put off, even Louis Elizondo, right? Like, I mean, it just, it's talked about a lot. And I think they're using it as some type of secret weapon. Like, you know, they're using that as a backbone or a blueprint. And by keeping that from modern eophologists, they can lure

modern eulophologists into their, into a state where they're no longer looking for nuts and bolts aliens. They're looking for, you know, something a little bit more nebulous. But yeah. So my background is, you know, I believe, no, I'm a free agent and I think that spirituality and consciousness is going to play a huge part in our discoveries of UFOs and vice versa.

I'm right there with you. Yeah. And, you know, even if you look at CERN, we've done many episodes on CERN and kind of what they're looking for and somewhat they've already found. And it's kind of funny because it seems like they're trying to kind of prove the science theory of how the world began or how the universe began, right? The dark matter. the all this stuff but as they research more and as they start figuring out like you know what if we have these particles the higgs bosom and god particle the god particle yeah the god particle as they call it which they you know the higgs bosom and all that but then you think about the 11 dimensions they believe

potentially exist and if you look at what certain scientists believe would exist in the 11th dimension and say we're in third dimension time potentially being the fourth now you think about the 11th dimension and anyone that could potentially control or harness the power of the 11th dimension, which is crazy to think about would be Godlike. Or yes, somewhere beyond that. But it all goes back to science. Basically what Tupa is saying here, you know, they've always tried to divide science and religion. Yes, exactly.

And that's what my point was. But I think the reality is the science and religion go together. They're both. Or not religion, but science and God get together. Yeah, God. Yeah. I think so too. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And it's the ability to hold. both ideas simultaneously it kind of frees you of this weird kind of tribalism right? Yeah. It's the same thing with like nuts and bolts

or or scientific, right? You should be able to hold both. Right. And you're going to get somewhere. I mean, the same thing could be said about the dream state and the waking state, right? If you can, if you can be

wakeful in your dream state, you might accomplish things in there. And likewise, if you could bring a little bit more of that symbolic understanding into the real world, you might start to understand real things at a deeper level. It's very helpful, right? But it can go awry, but it's still good to be able to do it. And I think that's going to bring a lot of, I don't know, a lot of power to UFO researchers and to people who are more

spiritual, you know, like, hold them both at the same time. They're not competing ideas. They don't have to be, you know, binary in that way. I've always said, I said, you know, if there is an alien planet out there that has found a way to, you know, build a craft to go light speed and to have all these advancements and technology, you're not going to have on that planet likely a Republican and Democrat Party that hate each other. You're not, you're not going to have these great divides between science and religion. You're not going to have these great divides between people because when you have divide, you have conquering, you know, divide through conquer or conquer through divide.

And it prevents you from building. Yeah. And the question always will, you know, I think the biggest question for humanity is how do you, how do you have differences, but also come together on vast major issues for humanity? You know, and you're just talking about in America, just think about the world too. You know, you think about even if people think about the Bible, it's all been wars, it's all been hate and not getting along with somebody. And I think that if there were aliens and other planets that are coming to visit us, They don't have that on their planet. More than likely not.

They couldn't. I don't think. I don't know. Likely not. Or they destroyed all the rest of them. Because, you know, everybody hides their technology from each other because they're all adversaries. They don't want anyone else to know what they're doing.

But maybe we all came together and came to, you know, even if Russia and America came together, amazing things could probably happen. Oh, absolutely. Russia, China. I mean, imagine all the power in science that could be had with all the countries. countries coming together. That's the biggest problem with science is that they compartmentalize everything and especially the government. And when you have that, you're never going to have the advancement you have. But Elon, thankfully, is doing as best he can, you know, outside the

government. Yeah. I mean, Elon's doing insane work. But too, so to get to UFO timeline, it is the UFO timeline.com. Do you guys have an app coming out soon? Yeah. Yeah. We're going to the app right now. I'm very excited about it. And we're finesseing that website every day. say we, I keep saying that. It's literally just, it's just me. It's just me. Yeah. It's just me. Yeah. And so the UFO timeline.com fully accessible. Check it out. The app will be on the way soon. Mobile site is good, but it's mostly just a sample of what you get on the desktop site, which is the full shabang. And we'll be able to fit it all in an app. But for now, yeah, the mobile site's limited. Check out that desktop version. I'm definitely right after this podcast.

I'm going to go look at it. Yeah. And I am so intrigued. I think that is amazing. And the work you put in for two years to put all this information in for people to see. Like, that's really amazing. And I'm just really proud of you. Yeah.

That's awesome. Appreciate it. Very good work. And tuba, they can find you on X at Tuba Khabra, right? Is that at Tuba Kama? Yeah. It's at Tuba Khaber 2, the number 2 at the end.

Yeah. Find me there. Blue Alien with a Beanie. Can't miss it. Can't miss it. Loudmouth. I definitely speak my mind on there a lot, but we try to keep it UFO based. You know what I mean?

So it's a good account to follow. And yeah, find me there. And what about your artwork? Oh, I rarely put out artwork anymore, but I think on Instagram you could find me like alien Tupac. Alien Tupac. Love it. Love it. That is your line.

Because I did see a little bit of your artwork and you're very talented. Yeah, for sure. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I literally just traced a picture of Tupac and then, drew alien eyes on them and changed those colors. And I've been having a blast with it since like 2019.

I thought it was cool. I've been an artist forever. And, you know, that's the only reason I was able to like make the timeline look decent. And the hardest part has been trying to get it to work. Right. I'm sure. I'm sure you've gone

through a lot of trials and tribulations doing that. Well, Tuba, thank you so very much for coming on. And listen, we want to definitely bring you back on in the very near future. We've got election season right now. So this is actually a needed relief from election season. It's so nice to talk about something else. Yeah.

Yeah, we're going to have some interesting times over the next few weeks. Well, this was a great conversation. You guys are really, really great people to talk to about this. So I'll pop on any time. And I look forward to more of your election coverage because you guys, I like where your heads are at a lot of this stuff. So it's good to talk to like my other people. Oh, we appreciate it, brother. Well, thank you, Tuba for our country.

coming on and everybody go follow tuba cabra over on x and go check out the ufo timeline.com we're going to close this episode out with i'm going underground by flex vortex because listen if the aliens invade you might have to go underground according to lou al-alzander because they're going to blow your ass up with a nuclear weapon but they might be underground but if you listen to uh dr stephen greer you're going to just go and hang out with these guys and have coffee or peace and love peace and love anyways guys till next time we love you we'll love you we will be live on X on election night and then we're also going to probably have

an episode tomorrow night pre-election coverage. Till next time, we love you. Peace out. Peace out, guys. You gave me off.