Is She Ok? - Can Women Have It All? (And do we actually want to?!)

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

A conversation inspired by the hilarious comedy Motherland, their own personal life developments and the rise of the Trad Wife movement, Chans & Sophie catch up to discuss the idea of what women having it all actually looks like in 2025.

Hi everyone and welcome to the Is She OK? podcast. I'm Chance and I'm Sophie and we're here to unpack life's ups and downs and all the in-betweens, having the conversations every woman's thinking about but rarely says out loud. Every week we'll chat about topics that really matter, aiming to answer the question we all ask ourselves. Is she OK? Oh hi! Hey gorgeous girlie, pink Fridays? all ask ourselves, is she okay? Oh, hi. Hey gorgeous girlie, pink Fridays. I love that we didn't plan this and yet it's happened.

This is what happens when we miss a week, we come back and we're just like so in sync. Exactly, but we're still so in sync. Yeah, you need it, you need it in your life. How are you? Yes, I am okay. I'm kind of at the eight month, no, nine month postpartum point where, you know, he's going to start nursery soon and I'm gonna have to go back to work. And I finally started enjoying maternity leave and now it feels like it's just racing past. And then

that coupled with the fact that I just cannot get to grips with my health at the moment, just like feeling good about myself. And that's been playing on my mind so much because, you know, when you're pregnant, you're allowed to get bigger and everyone celebrates you. When you have the baby, everyone's like, oh, she's just had a baby. Oh, wow. You're amazing. Like, let's look after you.

And then you get to this point where everyone's like, hmm, you had the baby nine months ago, now you should, you should really lose that weight and the pressure is on. And so yeah, it's just hard to find the time. And more importantly, I just don't feel good. So yes, I'm okay. I'm fine. Can I in a loving way, please, like play like devil's advocate, maybe do a bit of coaching with me. So please, the thing that really stuck out like firstly, holding space for did you like my Ariana Cynthia thing? Thank you. Yeah, no, but in a way that like completely hear what you're saying about not feeling good in yourself. And like that is the most important thing. But it was interesting when you were saying

it that it wasn't coming across as the language you were using was about other people. Yeah. That you should be smaller or you should not look like you've just had a bit or whatever. Where is that coming from? Like has anyone said something? Is that an external pressure? Is it just this view of like what you think society views as a woman or is it how you happen to say it? I think it's not, no one has said anything.

I think it's probably my internal voice to myself. And also just, you notice, you notice society around you and how, and how it kind of has this narrative around women who've just had kids. And you just see the transition in how people are with you. And I see other moms, you know, I see other moms who are managing to have their baby and be healthy and suddenly lose the baby weight. And I'm like, hold on a second, how the hell have you done that? So I think it's very much a me thing coming from me. And like I said, not feeling good about myself is definitely at the top of that list, I think. But yeah, it's just a big thing to get to

grips with. I mean, your whole career is around that. And you know, it's not something that you could do overnight. You have to, you have to educate yourself and learn and all of that. It's not something that you can do overnight. You have to educate yourself and learn and all of that. And it's just finding the space and time to do that. And I think also a massive thing, and this is something I say to clients who are in similar situations, it's like acknowledge how you feel, but at the same time, give yourself a bit of grace. So like a woman's body is still recovering from being pregnant and from childbirth for like up to 18 months, I think it is postpartum. So you are still in the recovery process. Your body is still kind of settling down and healing.

Now that doesn't mean give yourself a free pass because I think that we can go too far the other way, right? So it's not saying like, the fact is you do not feel good about yourself. So maybe there are just like very small things to do. So not applying like all the pressure of like, you have to be a size zero by next week, like that's going to make you feel like shit. However, if it's about how you feel, I always say to people like, right, well, just even this week, like, maybe just start paying attention to like, how the food that you're eating makes you feel. How does like, not moving or not being active throughout

the day, how does that make you feel at the end of the day? Like, how does staying up doom scrolling make you feel in the morning? And then when you start to question your actions, you can start to make really small changes, even little things like, okay, like, I feel good when I yeah, some fruits, but a snack throughout the day, like it makes me feel kind of like, energized, or, you know, whatever it might be. And I feel better in myself when I go for a walk after lunch. And it's just those really like small but manageable, low pressure, kind of low hanging fruit changes and choices.

And sometimes even just kind of like being conscious, a bit more conscious of the choices you're making can go a really long way. And you think it's kind of just like the small things, like identify what's not making you feel good and then going, what's the opposite of that? Sophie, this is why you are my friend, because that's very good advice. You're absolutely right. I think that's a really good, manageable way for me to start. So yeah, I will, because I do, you know, simple things like I wake up at 5am most mornings.

And then what do I do? I lie in bed and I scroll on TikTok for an hour. Yeah. And then I start my day. And in that hour, I could easily go downstairs and stretch my body, which is something that I maintain I don't really have time to do during the day. And what a lovely way to start my day. So yes, even you can even take it down like, kind of like a level from that and go. So before you go to bed, like you have a yoga mat, right? Make like a nice candle or like a nice herbal tea. So I say to people like, right, make it even easier. So before you go to bed, put the yoga mat in the living room floor, get

your favorite mug with like a really nice tea bag ready on the side, like a candle or incense or whatever it might be. And I know someone is going to be listening to this rolling their eyes. But like, I also know you and I know these are things that you probably have to have like their excess. Right. So then wake up tomorrow morning, you have a choice. You can either scroll on your phone. If that is your choice, make peace with it. Fine. You can try and go back to bed or you can go downstairs, make yourself a cup of tea.

And even if you just go and lie without your phone on that yoga mat and do some breathing, like hand on your chest, hand on your stomach and just chances are you might actually fall back to sleep. And some ways would be the best thing but like even just having that little bit of breaking the habit and doing something different. Yeah. What's a nice start to your day. I'm going to do it Sophie. I will report back next week. But yeah, that's I just think we put so much pressure on things to like, you know, suddenly go from like where you're at now to kind of like, I know doing a fitness regime or like

transforming your nutrition. It's like, you know what, like, have a piece of fruit and have a bit more vegetables on drink a bit more water. Don't Yeah, don't kill yourself. How are you? I'm okay. So it feels like forever since we spoke. So last, was it last week? Last week was my birthday, maybe the week before? Yes. No, last week was my birthday. I went home 36 hours, I cuddled the dog, I saw my parents. And that was lovely. I literally it was like train there, home, sleep, train back, but it was

a nice little break. And yeah, no, it was just really nice, very wholesome, very chilled. And aside from that, things are just ticking by. I am going to do that a really annoying thing where I'm going to say I will have something really exciting to report just over a week's time but I can't say any more than that now. Oh my god. You cannot do something like that to someone like this. I know. No one can do that to you. She's gonna drop that bomb on walkway.

I don't even know what this is. No one knows. I'm not leaving the country. That's all. I will say that everyone like everyone that knows me is like, shit, she's moving abroad. She's moving away. Yeah. And so this weekend is International Women's Day. And right. So controversially, I actually find International Women's Day a bit icky.

Basically, I think that it's just like this big marketing thing aimed at like, selling to women and like, it just I don't think it's like true to what it should be. So in the past, I've been clear of taking part in any like events for it and And it's been a very conscious decision, something about it gives me the it. However, going against all my morals and values. And basically tomorrow I am taking part in a talk on for International Women's Day. And I'm talking about PCOS. And so I'm really into that. So that has been taking up my time just getting that ready. And basically, I was going to opt out again, like I have done every year. And then I was like, you know what, it's an opportunity to maybe break through some of the misinformation that's out there. And put people on just kind of like, like I've decided not to do any slides, it's not going to be a PowerPoint thing. I want it just to be a

conversation between me and however many women are in the room, like one woman to another. So hopefully even the way it's delivered and stuff like that will be a little bit different. I don't want it to be I'm not shiny. So yeah, so that will be good. And then today, slightly segueing over to what we're going to be talking about. So while I was at home, I think most people experience this as an adult, that when you go home and you spend time with your parents and you put the TV on, it's kind of always that awkward thing of like, so what's everyone watching? And you're like, well, you're not going to want to watch what I'm watching. And I don't want to watch what you're watching. Anyway, long

story short, they introduced me to Motherland. Love Motherland. Love it. I loved it before I was even a mother. Oh my God. It's so funny and so like real. And there's some great one liners. So that brings us onto the topic of conversation today, because I guess like the whole thing with that show is like, can women have it all? And that's what I thought we would, should, could discuss today.

I think this is a brilliant topic. And, you know, when it comes to International Women's Day, for me, the day is just what you make it. You know, share a quick Instagram post, whatever it is, do a talk. I think you will take the ick out of it with what you're doing, I think is what's gonna happen. And yeah, the concept of can we as women have it all is so at the forefront of my mind at the moment because as a previous non-mother where I could spend as much time as I wanted, working and seeing my friends and all of that, I was like, oh, in this iteration of a woman's life, yeah, I've got it all. I've got a,

you know, I've got a partner, I've got, you know, I was ticking boxes. And then suddenly you, I became a mother. And that question really has changed for me massively. And it's so funny things because I was reading, it's a book of essays called Life Lessons from Remarkable Women. If ever there was one more new book I know. I'm really coordinating with it today as well. The very first essay is exactly about this topic and it's by someone called Lisa Szymarski. Sorry, I've butchered that. And it's called Why Having It All is a Myth. I love it. Could we be any more in sync?

Well, exactly. And this essay was so good that I read it twice and it was actually before I had a baby. And she was just brutally honest about it. Look, the concept of us having it all, feminists worked long and hard for many, many years to give us this idea, because they wanted us to have equality with what men have. Careers, families, you know, all of that kind of stuff, time for yourself. And this essay, you know, it's not saying,

don't aspire to have all of those things. You can absolutely do it. Please do go for it. But just understand that there are certain limitations. And there's just one bit that I want to read to you. So she said Oprah, a woman I rarely quote, but I should because she is a sage of our time, once said, you can have it all, just not all at once. And these are the words that I can squarely get on board with because having it all is really about learning the art

of patience, finding a way through your busy life to get what you want out of it, not punishing yourself when you have to say, I can't do that, whatever your that might be. You know, where if you have to leave work on time, because you have to go and get your kid, she's saying you should gloriously skip out of that office, because you're choosing to do something you want to do that's going to help you feel like you're having it

all don't, you know, slump out because everyone else is going to stay and work over their hours. I love that. I love that. And like, I have so like so much to say on this and so many like I don't even think I'm going to get it out in any kind of like, I just I find it such like an interesting concept. And before we started recording, we had a quick kind of like we have a quick private debrief about what we're going to kind of talk about and everything and I just like, I was watching Motherland

and I was thinking about kind of like, A, what it means to have it all. B, like I'm almost at the point where I think that the idea of having it all and this kind of like, I guess like the 80s, 90s hustle culture is actually almost quite antiquated now. And I think we're getting to a turning point where women are not afraid to actually say,

I don't want it all anymore, because everything comes at a cost. And like that in the book, I do believe like seasons of life. I think there are times to push your career and there are times to pull back. And I just, I see the women that I work with I think there are times to push your career and there are times to pull back. I see the women that I work with and I see my friends who are parents struggling with it so much

because there's this pressure of like, well, you know, I've gone to university and I've advanced my career. Now I'm sending my child to nursery and I'm resentful of that and they don't want to do that. We also know in society where most of us can't afford the luxury of having one parent stay at home. And I think it's almost like there's this kind of like to and fro and this really big kind of like internal battle that women are going through because like, I think also there's this guilt of like, but our ancestors, they fought for us to do this. And it's like, yeah, but for us to say, actually, no, I'm, I'm setting this boundary. And I don't want to do this. It's us to have the choice, I guess. And yeah. So yeah, I don't know what it means anymore.

So for you, for example, what does having it all mean to you? It's changed at various points of my life. So if I'm speaking from right now, having it all to me is enjoying my work and still working because I want my son to see that his mum works as well as his dad, is being a really present parent and having a loving and exciting relationship with my husband. On top of all of that, being able to enjoy my life and have time for myself as well as my friends. And I'm already sweating thinking about how I'm going to try and fit all of this in. It's that. And it's not, I never think, I'm a simple lady, Sophie, you know, I don't need to be jetting off on holidays every three months and I don't need to have a big fancy

house or a fancy car. I just want a good happy life. And even that for me is having it all. But again, I'm not sure I can do that all at once or do it all amazingly. Something is going to have to I'm going to have to compromise and something is going to have to give. It's just which part of that is it? And I think that's the thing I think it's going, maybe I can have like, maybe you can have it all but not everything is going to be at 100%. And then it's decided, right, so what areas am I willing to kind of like not be a perfectionist in or what areas am I willing to kind of set firmer boundaries with and kind of like not fully commit to, and then kind of maybe that ebbs and flows in time and again, like, I guess it's just that thing of finding what works best for you. But it's interesting because as you were talking, it's that whole thing of, you know, the rich life, like, what does your rich life look like, and everyone's is very different. And we see centers around your family and kind of like your

new role as a mother and also your career that you're very proud of and that you've built. And I guess it's a thing of kind of like finding how those all mesh together. How would you answer that question? So what does have it all mean for you? So I think it's interesting because I've very much chosen consciously not to have it all in the sense that I have chosen not to have children which I think is actually an integral part of quote unquote having it all. For me, that's where that comes from. I thought the marriage of having a career and having a baby. And I think in the traditional sense of women having it all, I think that's what people think of. So I guess a lot of ways I've kind of opted out of that. That does not mean that my life

is stress free and easy. So I think for me, having it all as kind of a currently like a single person who has a business to run is running my business, being able to spend time with my family, growing, meeting someone, probably, hopefully, maybe one day. Having a relationship. Yeah, having a relationship and family is massive to me. So spending time with my family and traveling, the freedom aspect is massive to me. So there's a lot of things there. And also, I guess my challenges, a big part of my job keeps me fixed to one place. But then freedom and travel is such a big part of who I am. And maybe that is where I find it hard to have it all because marrying those two together is really hard, as is trying to build a business and trying to meet someone. Like these aren't necessarily things that go hand in hand or that are particularly easy. So yeah, I guess it was... Do you know...

Go on. Oh, sorry, I was going to say, do you know what else has been really interesting is this burgeoning concept of tradwives. I don't know if you've seen this on social media, tradwives are this group of women who are just stripping it right back and going to their traditional roles. So they have these beautiful videos of them like, my child wants to eat a bagel today. And then from scratch, they sit there and make this bloody bagel and then feed their babies. And you know they look after their homes and they dress nicely and all of that kind of stuff. Well I had said to Matt the other day, my husband, I was like I could probably enjoy a bit of that now but it's because I am older right right? I'm an older mom, and I have worked for many, many years and I love my job and I love all of that. But the last few months,

I've really enjoyed looking after my family. I've enjoyed cooking for the first time in my life. My God, I cook so much now. I've enjoyed keeping the home and don't get me wrong, I'm busy as hell, but there's been an element of that life that I am experiencing for the first time and I did enjoy it. Now, obviously, life is expensive and I would get bored probably within three weeks. But it does, I think I've had conversations with friends and there's a good few people who were like, do you know what, maybe I could have a bit of that for a while. No, and I like, I think we've joked in past episodes

and we joke kind of when we're talking, like I'm done with the feminism now, like I'm willing to kind of just like stay home and- Someone look after me. Yeah, like I would be lying if I said that being like a traditional homemaker, and I don't look that, like my mum stayed at home when she had. And she stopped

working and I do part of me feels sad for her in the sense that like, she's so capable and you know, creative and like I wonder in a different world like what her life could have looked like. But there is a part of me now that is like, if I met someone and he was like, I can fund a certain lifestyle and you can work or not work, but you can just, I would not be against trying it. Yeah. Like, and not even without the kids, like, I just, I don't know if it's, and this is what I mean about the whole thing. And I think that there's, even for me,

I'm like, there's a certain amount of trepidation because I'm like, oh my God, I'm gonna get judged so hard for saying this right now. And I kind of just don't care because I think if more people were honest, like, yes, I might get bored and yes, I love my job and I love my career, but how nice would it be to like do all

the stuff at home and have the option to be like do you know what I might like volunteer on day a week I might do my job once or twice a week because I really love it without pressure. Like I agree and I think you and I have spoken about our mum's roles in the past as well because my mum was very similar she was a stay at home, but she's so smart and she could do whatever she wanted really. And I'm sure there's a part of her that's like, oh, I would have loved to be able to go out into the world and work. But now as I'm entering that life, I'm like, God, in some ways she's so lucky that she had the opportunity to stay home with us and raise us and be there for every experience.

But I know my kid is going to start nursery in two weeks and there's a chance that I'll miss his first steps because they'll probably do it there. And that's actually, it's pretty, it's a sucker punch because I've been with him for a year nonstop and that hurts, but got to pay the bills. And I think this is the thing, think like, is society now set up for like, have we got to a point where we've almost like dug ourselves a bit of a hole because like, actually, very few people can stay at home. And I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. I think oftentimes you speak to women who are able

to stay at home. Yeah And they are very wealthy. And these other women that are going to Pilates and go for coffee and go for lunches and all the rest of it, there is a lot of kind of like boredom and like, oh God, I would love to have like an adult conversation and I wanna have that drive. And I don't know what the answer is, but I do think that in terms of having it all in

the kind of maybe the original kind of like 90 cents of like the high flying lawyer who had was home for dinner and worked till 2am and you know, I do not know, especially when we don't have kind of like the help of the community around us and I don't know if that is still something that women on the whole aspire to and maybe that's why we're seeing like the tradwife thing come through. Yeah, yeah. And you know, I think when you accept the fact, when you're living to this standard where you've been told for so many years, yes, you can have it all. And the level of pressure that one saying brings with it, once you take the pressure off and you go, actually, maybe I can't and that's okay. And sometimes I'm going to have more and sometimes I'm going

to have less, but I don't need to have it all. And I think, you know, especially where I am in my life now, accepting that fact has really changed my perspective on how much pressure I'm putting on myself. And don't get me wrong, I'm the epitome of a goddamn perfectionist. I'm a Virgo through and through. And I will want to, you know, make a meal plan every week for my kid and for me and my husband and you know, do all of these amazing things that that are expected of mothers. But the pressure to do them all amazingly isn't there for me. It's it's just let's do as much as we can and be as happy as we can in the long run. Yeah, no, I completely agree. I think I just think it's that thing of like

taking away kind of like the perfectionism or identifying areas where actually 70 or 50% is good enough. And like at work setting the boundary of like, no, if my contracted hours are nine till five, yes, there might be the odd time where there's something going on. But like, rule of thumb, those are my contracted hours. And that's my time. And I just think it's relieving the pressure on yourself, like you said, I think that that's what makes makes the difference. And you know, you talked about villages earlier, but also, I think the role of a father has changed significantly. So you know, when we're looking

back to our mother's eras, fathers didn't do as much as they do now. I think that was just a fact. And actually, I remember hearing one of my very good friends said that her husband who's really senior in his law firm says on calls, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to go now because I'm putting my daughter to bed. I remember the first time she told me that

and I just thought, isn't that amazing? And I know you shouldn't think that because it's a father putting his daughter to bed. I remember the first time she told me that and I just thought, isn't that amazing? And I know you shouldn't think that because it's a father putting his daughter to bed, but actually in an industrial sense when you're, you know, working in a particular industry, to have the balls to say that when actually as a father you might get judged for it, I thought was absolutely incredible, especially when you're really senior and everyone below you is looking at that behaviour. So do you know what I find very interesting firstly I love that he does that and I love that he says that because I think it speaks volumes but the thing that I find really interesting is that a man says that and we gush and we say how amazing admirable

a man says that and we gush and we say how amazing admirable yes flip the script and a woman says that in a meeting there is bitching from everyone else there is well why does she get to love oftentimes because she has kids i don't have kids i don't get to leave early on a wednesday to pick up and it's and unfortunately and women do it to other women. It's not just me. But I do think that, like you said, like there's, when it comes from a man, our reaction to it and the reaction in the workplace is going to be very different to if that was coming from a woman saying- You're so right, 100%.

And I think that is the struggle because we don't have the same standards, we don't have the same rules, we just we don't, we still don't. But we do have double the pressure, like that's the thing. Yeah. And we have the pressure is on our shoulders. Yeah, and I just, I just think that again, it just goes to kind of like, for me, as soon as you said, I was like, love that, love that for him. But if that was all saying the same thing, there would be eye rolls and it would be a very,

it would be received differently. And I think that's why, you know, like, it's women feel the pressure to go back to work and, you know, maybe not take more maternity leave or whatever, because it's kind of like, you know, it's, I don't know if it happens so much now, but it's the whole thing of like, oh, well, we're not going to hire her because she's probably going to want to start a family. Oh, yeah. I'm sure it happens all the time. Yeah. And so I think that thing. So yeah, I do. I find like the whole thing and I just think it's,

it's a prejudice that you can't, we're never going to fully get rid of because it's, it's just there. It's just there in the back of your of because it's, it's just there. It's just there in the back of our minds. It's, it's just something that I don't know if there's an answer to getting around and as much as we like people are treated equally in the workplace. It's just not the case. No, but what it does signify is a change in mentality from them. Yeah. I think that's the important thing. This concept of, I work all day, so actually

you have to look after the kids, but also by the way, you need to have a job because you need to pay 50%. And it depends on your relationship. I know plenty of women who don't say to their husbands, you need to do more in the home or with our kids. And that's fine. That's your prerogative. I couldn't live my life like that. My husband needs to do 50% if not, you know, as much as he can, including bedtimes and things like that. And I get we're all super busy, but if I can't have it all, then neither can he. Yeah, no, and I think that that is

a healthy relationship dynamic. It's kind of like, okay, well, if you are expecting me to go back to work and to contribute half of the income or however it's split and pay half the bills, et cetera, et cetera, then the stuff that goes on at home still needs to be divided equally. Yeah, I completely agree because I think otherwise, it's that whole thing of like the mother's load

Right, and it's kind of all jobs and it's actually you don't finish work and then log off and come home It's yeah you picking up your second job starts in a room cleaning and actually like no That's yeah unacceptable for me This International Women's Day, Sophie, I celebrate you. Thank you for being such a wonderful woman in my life. And to any women who are listening, just wanted to say happy International Day to you all. Things may not be easy for us, but you know what, we go through it together, don't we?

Yeah. And I just think, you know, on that note, kind of like you just I think, we've been gifted this amazing kind of like, world of choice and options. And it's just then having the, the sense of kind of like self to say cool, this is what I'm opting in for, this is what I'm saying to you and not feeling, not allowing yourself to feel or be judged for those choices. Exactly. You go girl. You go girl. Well done that one. It's been a pleasure.

Always, thank you so much. Thank you for listening everyone. Thank you for listening and we will be back and in the meantime you can find us at IsSheOK and you can listen to us on Apple and Spotify and please don't forget to like, share and all the good stuff. Yes please, lots of love, bye!