It Can't Just Be Me - 16: Kinks, Icks, and Parenthood: An Extended Quick Fire Round with LalalaLetMeExplain

Episode Date: September 20, 2023

Anna Richardson is back with a brand new season of It Can’t Just Be Me, and she's primed and ready to answer your burning questions! To kick-start the season, Anna is joined by superstar anonymous Agony-Aunt, LalalaLetMeExplain. Anna and Lala trawl through some of the juiciest dilemmas in the inbox. From belly-button kinks, parenthood, icks, and dating apps - Anna and Lala leave no stone unturned and have a good old laugh along the way. For more from LalalaLetMeExplain, you can listen to her podcast It’s Not You, It’s Them…But It Might Be YouPlease note, this episode strays into a discussion around blurred boundaries in relationships.…Have questions about sex? Divorce? Motherhood? Menopause? Mental health? With no topic off limits, Anna’s here to prove that whatever you’re going through, it’s not just you.If you have a dilemma you’d like unpacked, visit itcantjustbeme.co.uk and record a voice note. Or tell Anna all about it in an email to [e-mail] podcast contains adult themes that may not be suitable for children. Listener caution is advised. Please note that advice given on this podcast is not intended to replace the input of a trained professional. If you’ve been affected by anything raised in this episode and want extra support, we encourage you to reach out to your general practitioner or an accredited professional. From Podimo & Mags CreativeProducers: Laura Williams and Christy Callaway-GaleEditor: Pulama KaufmanTheme music: Kit MilsomExecutive producers for Podimo: Jake Chudnow and Matt WhiteFollow @itcantjustbemepod and @podimo_uk on Instagram for weekly updates Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello there, you lot. It's Anna Richardson here, and I am so happy to be back in the pod seat, bringing you a brand new season of It Can't Just Be Me. Now, for those of you who might have forgotten, let me give you a little refresher. This is the show where I find you, me, and everyone really, some answers to your burning questions. All you have to do is send me your dilemmas. You can leave them as a voice note at itcan'tjustbeme.co.uk or you can email them to me at itcan'tjustbeme at podimo.com. I then invite the perfect guest into the studio to offer you some advice.

And this week, I'm back with a bit of a bang. So this is probably not one to play while any kids are listening. Just a warning. Although the episode is light-hearted, we do mention abuse and the blurring of boundaries in relationships. So be kind to yourself. If that's not something you feel good about listening to right now, then do feel free to skip this episode.

So let's get into it. Welcome back to It Can't Just Be Me. Hi, Anna. Hey, Anna. Hey, Anna. Hi, Anna. Hey, Anna. Hi, Anna. Hi, Anna. Hi, Anna. get into it. Welcome back to hated myself for feeling that way. If you've got any advice. I would really appreciate any advice. It can't just be me. It can't just be me, right? Now, my guest today is the queen of spotting red flags,

dealing with icks, and sorting the wheat from the chaff when it comes to prospective partners. It is, of course, everyone's favourite anonymous agony aunt, La La La, Let Me Explain. Many of you might know La La as the agony aunt for OK! magazine, or perhaps you've listened to her brilliant podcast, It's Not You, It's Them, but it might be you, or maybe you've read her book, Block, Delete, Move On.

In 2018, she stepped back from her job as a social worker to focus full-time on sharing her dating knowledge and wisdom on Instagram. She says that even though she isn't officially a social worker anymore, she still feels like she is, just in a different way. So here she is, everyone. It's La La La, Let Me Explain. Oh, what an intro. Thank you. I know. Do you know, intros are weird, aren't they? Because they always make you feel a bit kind of like odd, like you're hearing an obituary. Well, it's where I like it, but then I always feel like I need to go back to the person and be like, and Anna,

you are a longstanding present. You know, like I feel like I have to say something nice back to the person, but thank you. I really appreciated that. It's so good to have you here. And I'm very excited about having my very first anonymous celebrity in the studio. I know you tried to get Banksy and it didn't work and I was the second best. Well, I have to say, you are the Banksy of Agony Arms. So this is deeply exciting. And the obvious question, I know you've been asked a million times before. Why do you choose to stay anonymous?

Oh, there's just so many reasons. When I started out writing a blog, I was still a social worker with no intention of ever changing my career. And I was writing about my own personal dating stories. And so of course, it was just obvious I needed to be anonymous. And I wasn't trying to reach any huge audience or anything. I was just writing for my own sake sake but then it sort of took off and went viral and as you mentioned I was able to leave my career as a social worker but I maintained my anonymity partly because some of the stuff that I do or did in social work involved helping women to flee from really dangerous men or helping children to flee from extremely abusive parents. So I guess you kind of gather some enemies doing that kind of job.

And I've got a son. He's getting older now, but when I started, he was much younger and I wanted to really protect him. And that's why, of course, we're blurring your face today as well to protect your anonymity. But no, I get that. I mean, if you want to be truly authentic and truly honest, it's very clever to say, look, I'm going to be truly authentic and truly honest, it's very clever to say,

look, I'm going to reach a massive audience of millions, but I'm choosing not to reveal my face for protection. And you've really been at the coalface, like you say, in terms of protecting other people. So you understand what threat means. So I completely respect where you're coming from. Now, you really are one of the UK's hottest agony aunts right now and protector of people. And I have a plethora of questions from listeners about parenthood, dating, kinks and icks that I can't wait to get your unique take on. But before

we get stuck in each week, I asked my guests to share their very own. It can't just be me dilemma. Now you must have loads. So give me just one. It can't just be me. Who thinks that dating apps have ruined dating? You and I are speaking from the same hymn sheet. I can't bear a dating app.

So go on, fill me in with why you think it's ruined dating. I'm lucky enough to be somebody who experienced life as a grown up before social media, before dating apps, before we all had mobile phones. And life was just so different then, you know, meeting people was always kind of organic and we just dated and loved and had relationships in such different ways and then dating apps came along which I think 10 years ago felt like wow this is great like this is going to open up so many more opportunities and people to us but actually I think that if you chart dating and even people's mental health, who've been using dating apps for the last 10 years,

I think that you would see a massive decline, actually, in A, our mental health, but B, in our ability to communicate with people properly, to invest really in anything, in one person, to make effort. I just think everybody's become so lost and so behaving in a way as though people don't matter, as though it's fine because I can match 10 more people tonight. I think it's destroyed us. I mean, you're absolutely right to say that it sort of plays into our instantaneous,

sort of disposable, one-use, sort of plastic cup type culture, hasn't it? That, yeah, I'm not interested in you, move on. Yeah. I couldn't agree more with you. And I really could talk to you about this all day. I think we're going to be touching on this a little bit later on, weirdly, with one of our dilemmas. So I'll wait for that.

And it definitely isn't just you, Lala, that can't bear a dating app. Okay, it is time to turn our attention to the task at hand. As the UK's favourite, biggest, anonymous agony aunt, you're an old hand at all of this, so I'm going to throw you four listener dilemmas today. Not all at the same time, but the first one is an interesting one. It's been emailed in from an anonymous listener and it's all about belly buttons. This is what our anonymous person has to say. Hello, Anna. I would love some advice on a dilemma I'm having, please. I'm dating a guy with a belly button kink, but I'm a bit weird about belly buttons. He has an outie belly

button and wants me to play with it, but I find them odd. Is it just me? He enjoys my belly button too, but it always feels weird whenever anything goes inside my belly button, I have an innie. Do you have any suggestions? Will it get easier in time? Now then, I wasn't expecting that to come through. Belly buttons, we've all got one. It's the funny little nodule on our tummy that reminds us that we were once literally connected to our mothers. Madonna, by the way, described hers as her favourite button and said that she feels a shiver go up her spine whenever she touches it, not dissimilar to an orgasm. So, Lala, look, what exactly is going on when our listener says their boyfriend has a belly button kink? What are we talking about here? It'd be interesting to know if it's definitely a kink or a fetish because a kink is something that really turns him on.

A fetish is something that he would need in order to get him off. Oh, is that the difference then? So a kink is just a sort of something that I get excited about, it turns me on. But the fetish is something you need to do in order to orgasm. I believe so, yeah. So a kink is like, this is really horny, but I can get myself off and find pleasure in other ways. Whereas with a fetish, it's that needs to be included in order for me to reach that point of complete satisfaction. in order for me to reach that point of complete satisfaction. We've got a bit of a tricky pairing going on here because we've got one person who has a belly button kink

and another, our listener, who doesn't. Does this make them sexually incompatible or just with this particular kink, do you think? I think that would depend on how much the belly button kink person needs that as part of their sex life in order to feel fulfilled and satisfied sexually. If that is a non-negotiable for them that belly button stuff has to be involved in the sex they have for them to really feel sexually fulfilled, then they need to find a partner who is equally into that. And actually bringing that in is kind of unfair. You know,

I think somebody subjecting you to a kink that is a bit unusual without having that communication and consent and checking in whether you feel comfortable with that. We're in kind of dodgy territory there. Well, this is a really good place to ask the question on how should people communicate their kinks with a partner? Because, I mean, especially if it's an unusual kink, there's shame attached to it, isn't there? And embarrassment. So have you got any advice on how people might want to introduce their kink when they first start sleeping with somebody? I think if you're at the stage where you're sleeping with someone, then you should be at the stage where you are able to communicate with them. And I think also go into that feeling unashamed. I think if you present that as, oh, I've got to talk to you about

something that might be weird and shameful, you're already framing that as a shameful act. And actually, I think if you own it and you very much feel like, look, this is what I'm into and other people are into it too. Like maybe I could show you some belly button porn or whatever and see what you think about it. But be open and be real and also tell your partner that it's okay for them to ask questions and that they don't need to know everything yet. And, you know, no question is a stupid question.

But have those conversations, but also don't have the expectation that just because you've raised it means that they've got to be on board with it. I mean, equally, how should somebody respond and draw their boundaries around the kink or the fetish? What would you say to somebody in terms of saying, I'm okay with this, but actually I'm not okay with that? Yeah, I think it's really important in the first instance to not shame. I think we have to be really open to these things. And the reason why someone might be reluctant to bring their kink or fetish to you is because they may have experience of people going, oh, you fucking weirdo. So don't react like that. You have to avoid shaming. But also,

it is really important to never compromise yourself in order to try to keep a partner. If what they tell you doesn't make you feel comfortable or something that you know that you would be turned off by, don't feel like, oh, fuck, like, well, I'm going to have to get involved with this or I'm going to lose this person. And actually, if you feel like if they're that easily lost because you won't open up your boundaries to tolerate whatever it is they like, then it really would be no loss if they went anyway. So final concrete advice to this listener, what would you say to them if they were sitting here now? I'd say communicate your wants and needs very clearly. Know what your own boundaries are before you have that conversation so that you can be very clear and explicit about those. And if you have any fear or disgust or discomfort with anything that is ever happening to you in bed, then you have the absolute right to say no and to stop. And even if you have that communication about belly buttons and you think,

oh, actually, maybe I'll let him do this or that. And actually halfway through you think, oh, I'm really disgusted. You can still withdraw consent at any time. Whatever you've discussed is not set in stone. The boundaries can always change. And you must have worked within your professional life, your previous professional life as a social worker. You must have worked with so many people where their boundaries have got blurred. They've sort of submitted to other people within relationships and perhaps kind of lost themselves a a bit maybe sexually or within a relationship oh well absolutely i mean well i mean if you're in an abusive relationship firstly you can't operate as a sexual being because you are in survival mode you never know when when the next problem

is coming and actually your sexual autonomy is completely taken away from you. Sex is a great way to control people, either through pregnancy or fear, rape, sexual assault. And actually if anybody is feeling like they're in a relationship with someone where they do just have to do whatever it is that their partner wants them to do, then that is abuse. And you need to get support to see if you can get out of there. Thank you, Lala, for highlighting that. Time to move on to our next dilemma. This one is from

Abby. And it's an interesting one, actually. It's all about purpose in life. And this is what she says. Hi, Anna. It can't just be me who is really struggling with sharing my daughter following the breakdown of mine and her father's relationship. actually separated when she was three she is now 12 and it's only really recently that I have begun to really struggle with feelings and questions around what is my actual purpose I sometimes don't even feel like a mom never mind a part-time one my daughter lives with me full-time and visits her dad every other weekend. However, she does so many extracurricular activities, I hardly see her. I am basically feeling like her taxi and financial provider and that's about it. When she is at home, she's either in her room, on her phone or, you know, chatting with her friends and I can't force her to spend

time with me. I feel like I should be doing more and doing better but she is happy and I can't force her to spend time with me. I feel like I should be doing more and doing better but she is happy and I don't want to stop her from doing the things that she loves. For me to become the bad guy, what can I do? Oh, this sort of breaks my heart. I mean, Lala, you used to work with children and families as a social worker so this is an area that you've got a huge amount of expertise in. When you were listening to that, what was your immediate response? Oh, no, this is, forget my social work. This is literally my life. I have a 12-year-old son.

I have him for two weeks straight, and then he goes to his dad's every other weekend. And we are, I mean, he's about to go into year two of high school, year eight, whatever we call it. And I'm in exactly the same position. He's absolutely obsessed with fishing. All he wants to do is wake up in the morning, take his fishing rods, go to the lake,

comes back at lunchtime for a couple of sandwiches, then goes back off again, and then wants me to come pick him up in the evenings. And I'm often like, well, wouldn't you like to just go to the cinema today or go bowling? He's like, no, fuck off, mum. I mean, he doesn't say that, but I'm sure he would if he could, because he's just got absolutely zero interest in being

around me. In fact, I'm just holding him back, I think, in life. I am just there to be a maid, provide him with lodgings and food and drive him around and I understand what she's saying because it's a drastic change you know you most of your child's life you spend with them clinging on to you they want nothing more than to be around you and actually there can be times you know when he was five six by the end of the six weeks holidays I'd be like I'm about to have a fucking nervous breakdown get this kid away from me And now it's the complete opposite. It can feel like, what the fuck's happened? Like, why doesn't my kid want to cling to me in the same way?

But actually, it's normal. It's because what I would love to say to her is actually this shows that you have done your job so well. Because really, ultimately, your job is to create a person who can thrive and survive in the world without you you need to create a little independent human and you've done it i think actually you need to now go and find some shit to do when you're not with her well i was just gonna gonna say that actually and ask that because this sounds like sort of normal 12 year old behavior to me i don't

have children but you know this does seem to be very, very normal. Your parents are basically taxis, aren't they? They're a sort of cafe and a taxi rolled into one. But at what point would you raise a red flag? At what point does ordinary 12-year-old behaviour become worrying behaviour, do you think? I mean, in this context, if she just did not want to speak to her mom, if she was very withdrawn, I think the good thing here is that it's not that she's ignoring me, but also she's laying in her bed all day and not communicating

with anyone. She's ignoring you, but she's got a thriving social life. She's doing all sorts of extracurricular activities. I listened to this thing on Instagram the other day, and this may be wrong. Not everything you hear on Instagram is true. But I heard a really interesting explanation rooted in evolutionary psychology for this thing that we go through. I don't know if you felt this with your parents, Anna, but I remember getting to about 12, 13 and thinking that my parents were the most embarrassing idiots in the entire world i thought they don't know anything i know much more than them age 12 i just thought if my mom being in the queue and my mom like trying to strike up a friendly conversation with the cashier i'd be

mortified like why are you so embarrassed doesn't want to talk to your mom like you idiot so so and i remember really feeling like that and then it wasn't until kind of my 20s that i was like actually like i really love my mom you know so anyway this psychologist was explaining that basically this happens to ensure that we don't have incestuous relationships and create babies with our parents. So when you reach the age where you are child bearing age, 12, 13, psychology kicks in to make you believe that those closest to you, your parents, namely and uncles and whatever, are repulsive. Absolutely disgusting. It's a way to ensure that we weren't mating too much in bread. And then apparently it's about 24 that changes

and you can suddenly start to see your parents as people again. Oh, that's really, that makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Yeah. Really. And as you say, we've all been there where we've looked at our mum. I mean, my dad's a vicar. My mum's an RE teacher. Can you imagine the embarrassment?

They must have been, yeah. Oh my God, from a very early age for me. I was just like, utter cringe. But that makes perfect sense. But look, let's talk a little bit more about fulfilment and purpose. Because this is the key, really, of Abby's dilemma. Our purpose in life is our key to fulfilment, isn't it, really? What advice would you give Abby around perhaps maybe taking some of the focus

off her daughter and being a mum and maybe finding herself a little bit more? Exactly that. A, in terms of your mum life, you still have a purpose, a very clear purpose because you are that safety. You're the safe place.

You're the person that your daughter knows she can go off and thrive she can go off and make mistakes she can go off and do her own thing and and you have created this really wonderful space for her to always come back to so your mum role has not ended and it never will end but it is really time to step into this new era of a bit more independence and and free time for yourself i i would do some volunteering. Volunteering would be a great one because I think it would make her feel like she's giving back,

she's doing something for other people. And there's loads. Age UK, I know, always looking for befrienders, people who can go and just sit with older people and give them some company. But if you look at the Royal Voluntary Service, there's loads of opportunities for volunteering on there. And that would make you feel very purposeful.

And needed as well, because perhaps there's something about nurture here that Abby's no longer feeling like she's able to give that nurture that she's wanting to perhaps give and share with her daughter. And there is something about, as you say, Age UK, just that intergenerational thing of feeling needed. Because weirdly, in the way that Abby's daughter is ignoring her as a mum, older people get ignored as well. So it might be a nice little flip, a nice little reverse there

that Abby can give back to somebody else, you know, a grandparent, an older person that's missing their kids as well. Yeah. Could be a nice thing. More specifically, how could Abby maybe encourage her daughter to spend a little bit more time with her without making it feel like forced fun? What could Abby be doing with her daughter, do you think? Well, I mean, I don't know what the daughter's into. But for example, so my son can take himself to the little lake, which is right by our house, and he can do that on his own.

But sometimes we'll drive off together to like a much further lake that is really far out. And then me and him will sit and have the day together. But also she could book things. Is there a local theatre in your area? Are there things that you could go to together? Are there things that you could just suggest that she would enjoy? But don't feel rejected and disheartened if she really doesn't want to. And would you advise that Abby maybe talks to her daughter about this or her ex even? Or do you think that, look, no kid wants to feel

that their parents got an issue that they're somehow responsible for? I wouldn't think it would be that successful to sit down and say to a 12 year old, I don't feel needed anymore. That's a lot to put on them. It's a bit of a burden to put on that 12 year old. So I think never sort of guilt trip them into wanting to hang around with you. But you know, where could you, are there ways that you could find that time? So for example, at night before bed, could the two of you have like, I don't know, you could even call it something like check-in time or whatever. So, you know, that last half an hour before bed, you get into bed with her, cuddle up. You both share what you did today and maybe what your dream is for tomorrow, your hope is for tomorrow.

Or talk about one thing you both found that you're both grateful for today. And maybe you could just carve out and maybe you could suggest that to her. Like we have 10 minute mum and daughter time in the morning and half an hour at night. And it's just our time. We wake up, cuddle time with a cup of tea and we talk about what are we excited for today. That's a nice idea actually

because it's not too much pressure, is it, for her daughter whilst at the same time still knowing that her mum is there for her and does still care and that she's not just a taxi or a calf. Okay, well, look, Abby, don't worry about it. I ignored my mum for years and I stayed in my room listening to The Smiths, which in fairness, I still do whenever I go and see her. So just stick with it because eventually your daughter will wake up when she's in her 20s and just realise just how lucky she is to have a mum that she loves.

So I'm here with a la la la, let me explain, who is the host of the unbelievably good, it's not you, it's them, but it might be you podcast. Fill me in because I know you drop three times a week. So you are basically podding night, noon and day. But they are very short episodes. So about 15 minutes each. And each episode is something completely different. So on a Monday, we deep dive into a hot topic like sex education or ADHD. On a Wednesday, we answer listeners questions in my agony aunt role. And then on a Friday, I make my Instagram come alive. We do live ick reactions. Is this a red flag? Fuck boy replies and all sorts of stuff to get

you going into the weekend. Fuck boy, girl or person free. I mean, this just sounds to me like a perfect TV show, but it's actually in your ears. Okay, so my next two questions are all to do with Okay, so my next two questions are all to do with dating. I know this is an expertise of yours. The first one is short, but sweet. It was emailed to us by Tony, who's looking for some advice on, you guessed it, dating apps. Here we go. Hi, Anna. I never know what to put in the bio, so I normally put a load of rubbish. Can you help? I would love to find love. Oh, as I have a lot of love to give. Now, regular listeners will know, I said it at the top of the show as well. I am not a fan of a dating app and neither is Lala. I'm one for getting out there and connecting with somebody more naturally, or at least just getting mates to set you up.

But there's no escaping it. Dating apps are a fact of life. And apparently there are over 1,400 different dating sites available in the UK. So clearly, this is a question that our single listeners are going to be very interested in. So Lala, look, we know you're not a fan either. But what should Tony put in his bio to help him meet the right person online? I don't know. And I'll tell you why I don't know. I have always been very clear with people that I cannot promise to find you love. I cannot teach you the best things to say on a date or how to flirt. My work here is about I can help you to avoid the shit ones. I can help you to avoid the

bad ones. I can tell you what a red flag is. I can tell you what to look out for on dating apps. But I know that as a woman, if I was looking at a man's dating app bio, I'd want him to just be really clear about what he wanted from the dating app experience. I would want him to be clear about his interests so that I got a little bit about him. Because there's a big difference between a man who sits in his bedroom listening to The Smiths and a man who parties all night listening to So Solid

or whatever. You know what I mean? So give me a flavour of which guy you are. And basically be honest, surely. Just be real and be you but don't talk too much. So that would be one thing I'd say.

I can tell you the don'ts. Don't put a list of the things you don't like in women. Okay, let's stick with that then. What shouldn't we be doing on an online dating app? Yeah. So your list of negatives, I mean, read my book. There is actually, Tony would benefit from my book. It is written from the perspective of a cishet woman, but it can help a lot of people. And there is quite a bit of stuff in there about dating apps and bios and things like that. But I think one of the biggest turn-offs for women certainly, if I see a bio from a man and it's like,

don't want a woman with lip fillers, don't want a woman who shows herself, you know, I don't want this, that and the other, you're already just coming with this really negative. And actually that's going to affect you because you're there like, this is what I don't want. Actually think about what you do want. So come with some positives. there like this is what I don't want actually think about what you do want yeah so come with some positives well this is it I mean I kind of feel that actually for me what I would want to see is a genuine expression of who you are as a

person and as you say what you actually want, but done fairly briefly. So look, let's just be really, really straightforward then with Tony, because he struggles with the bio. He normally puts a load of rubbish. So you haven't got a lot of space to do this. What are we saying he should do? Get off the dating apps, to be honest with you. That's what I would do.

Get off the apps. You're right. And listen to the advice that we just gave to the other person to do some volunteering join a local community group that's where you will end up inadvertently meeting people do you know i'm 100 with you tony just forget all of the above come off the dating app just go out there and be your fabulous self go and meet somebody genuinely like you used to do in the 80s I'm telling you it works it really does work okay so my next dilemma comes from Ryan who wants some advice around giving someone the ick hi Anna so I've got a bit of a weird one here a while ago when I was with my ex-girlfriend me and her were away bowling um first time we'd been bowling. I'd been out with her for quite a while at this time, but I hit a few pins down.

And she turned around and said that my bowling style gave her the ick. So I kind of thought it was quite funny at the time, but now as an ex-girlfriend, maybe not so much. So I guess any sort of advice or tips on how to avoid that in the future, that'd be great. Oh, this is marvellous. And the perfect question for you, because you are the person credited for bringing the term ick to Instagram. I mean, what exactly is the ick, would you say? And why do we get them?

Well, there's many different... So first of all, we have to get the ick right. Okay. And this is what pisses me off. So I didn't invent the term the ick. I think it came up off the back of Love Island, actually. But I did,

I was the first person to start doing ick stories on Instagram and then loads of people started doing them. And what pisses me off is that a lot of people get them wrong.

Now you can call your general turn offs an ick. So you might say a guy scratching his balls and then sniffing his hand is a big I've got the ick from that of course you have of course you have and that's a general turn off but it gives you that same icky repulsive feeling so you can call that an ick but if we're talking about the true ick is when you get a feeling of repulsion about somebody who you really did like and really did fancy for no rational reason at all okay so it

could just be the way they held their coffee cup and you're like so it's a sudden thing a sudden thing for usually for i mean it can as i say it can happen for something totally like oh that's fucking disgusting or it can happen just in these random ways. And often for women, it can be a sense of vulnerability. Like if a guy drops something and then goes, ooh, ouchie, or something, you know, then a woman can be like, bleh. But, you know, but it's not intentional and you cannot control it.

So the point of this, the answer to this guy's question is that there's nothing you can do. I mean, that sounds to me like a true, genuine ick on the behalf of his ex-girlfriend. And there is nothing. She could have watched 20 people bowling in exactly the same way and the ick would not have hit her. The ick hit with you.

And there's a variety of different potential explanations for the ick again if we want to look at evolutionary psychology that the answers i've heard from that kind of perspective are that whether we want children or not we're always subconsciously sussing up partners as potential parents to our future children who may never ever exist, but our brains don't know that. And so if we see something like a little bit clumsy or makes them look a little bit vulnerable, what our subconscious says is that person's going to drop your baby on its head. Yeah.

The other explanations for it are, you know, a lot of people who are very anxiously or disorganized attachment styles may be doing subconscious self-protection. So my brain is putting me off you or telling me that there's a reason to be off you before you reject me. So I think you're going to reject me anyway. Well, that's fine because I've already gone off him with the ick because he dropped his cup or whatever. So there's that. This is interesting. Can I off him with the ick because he dropped his cup or whatever. So there's that. This is interesting. Can I tell you about my ick? Go for it.

I mean, I had a situation. It was a while ago now, some time ago. And I was dating this guy. I thought he was amazing. He was really clever, right? And he was really fascinating. And one day we were out in the pub and I was looking at him. I was looking at his face thinking,

there's something not right about your face while you're talking to me and then I realized that his teeth were moving independently of his gums what just flailing around no just just ever so slightly his teeth were just moving out of time oh I know with his. And I hadn't noticed it up until that. Can you fucking imagine? Yeah. But I'm in the middle of my half-a-side at my snake bite when suddenly I'm like, this guy's teeth are moving.

And this is the problem because it hits you so strongly that from that point onwards, it's like you can't bear to hear them breathe or eat. I mean, and it's such a horrible thing. The other thing that can affect it, and again, a lot of this is for cis women, is the menstrual cycle. So if you meet somebody when you're ovulating and you think, wow, you're really fucking sexy, I really like you. And then the next date that you go on with them is a couple

weeks later and you're in your luteal phase, you might think, fucking hell, get away from me, you're disgusting. I don't want to mate with you. Yeah, you're in your luteal phase, you might think, fucking hell, get away from me, you're disgusting. I don't want to mate with you. Yeah, you're gross. I don't know what was going on with my menstrual cycle then because up until that point, I thought it was hot. But then I was obviously in my luteal phase and realised you've got really bad bridge work.

Yeah. Wow. Now, well, look, okay, so the ick is a very real thing. So if that guy is a bit of a muuppet with a bowling ball, then yeah. But maybe he wasn't even a Muppet. Maybe he bowled in a totally normal way. So I think what this guy needs to know is that one person's ick is another person's turn on. And you just need to be you because there is things that you, like I said before,

you could have done that same bowling move 20 times and it didn't it her and then the exact same thing happens just at the wrong point in her cycle and she's got the ick and she can't control it you need to know that it's nothing to do with you it's the ick it's irrational it's cruel it's out of control but do not ever live your life thinking oh i'm gonna i might give someone the ick if it's the right person they will not get except they'll never get the ick I mean last up should we really be listening to our icks or do you think the ick can be a cruel mistress sometimes very cool mistress and I think we should do our best if it's with someone who is really just wonderful and really you need to be giving your your you know a chance this person I think we need to do our best to rationalize and to be sensible about it but also don't force it because I've been in situations

where I've thought this is really unreasonable and he's such a good guy and I really ah but then I've tried to have a couple more dates and each time I'm just feeling sicker and sicker and like don't touch me so actually I also think that's pretty cruel on Yeah. For them to not know that the person on the date with them is doing everything they can to be not repulsed by them. So try it a couple of times. Try and talk yourself out of it. But if you can't, then you have to listen to your ick. But then, I mean, could you...

I'm going a deep dive into this because I've had the ick where I've been just instantaneously, utterly repulsed by somebody. And then I've also had with long-term partners, where I love them to bits, but there's going to be a bit of an ick with, ooh, don't do that, but I still love them. But we're always going to be turned off by people.

There were times when I lived with my son's dad for several years and there'd be some skid mark boxes on the floor and I'd think, but I'd never think, ugh, right, get out, pack your bags. It'd be like, ugh, boxes on the floor and I'd think and I'd never think oh right get out pack your bags it'd be like oh but love him you know what I mean and well that's very different to an ick in which you are like oh I can't look at you anymore yeah like I'm off you what would we call the ick which is just a sort of acceptable ick of a loving partner? It's just, that just turned you off a bit. You know, it's your turn off, it's a general turn off.

So sitting there seeing your partner picking his nose very enthusiastically might make you go, oh God. But it's not going to make you run out the door. Got you. It's more just of a kind of like gross. We're allowed to be grossed out by each other. Yeah. That's kind of different to that very strong repulsion that you feel with an ick oh god lala i'm i mean i could really talk about x all day i'm fascinated by x but i'm sorry to say that's all we've got time for today but what a journey we've been on we've had kinks belly buttons x dating and also parenthood. A perfect slice of modern day life

and a brilliant start to season two. Thank you so much for joining me today. You have been very funny, kind, and thoughtful, and insightful. And you've been an amazing guest to kick off this season with. So thank you very much. Thank you for having me. I adore you and I adore this podcast. It has been a pleasure. And of course, if you want more Lala advice in your ears, then check out her podcast. It's not you, it's them, but it might be you. It drops three

times a week and is full to the brim with even more straight down the line pearls of Lala, let me explain, wisdom. I'll be back next week with another superstar guest in the meantime don't forget that i need you for this show quite literally need you so if you have a question that you would love some advice on please send it my way you can either leave me a voice note at it can't just be me.co.uk or you can email it can'tjustbeme at podimo.com. Remember, nothing at all is off limits, and whatever you're dealing with, it really isn't just you. From Podimo and Mags, this has been It Can't Just Be Me, hosted by me, Anna Richardson. The producers are Laura Williams and Christy Calloway-Gale. The executive producer for Mags is James Norman-Fyfe.

And the executive producers for Podimo are Jake Chudnow and Matt White. The editor is Palama Kaufman. Don't forget to follow the show or for early access to episodes and to listen ad-free, subscribe to Podimo UK on Apple Podcasts.