It Can't Just Be Me - 28: Navigating Big Life Changes? With Shirley Ballas

Starting point is 00:00:00 A quick warning before we start today's episode, as we do discuss suicide, so please listen with care. Hello, it's me, Anna, and it can't just be me that's currently wearing elasticated trousers and has a great deal of acid reflux, and yet those mince pies are still looking very, very good. Now, the Christmas tree and tinsel may still be up, but let's face it, our minds are slowly starting to turn to the year ahead and the challenges that a new year can inevitably bring. Today's dilemma is all about dealing with those big life changes that can suddenly be thrown our way and how on earth we navigate them. Amanda got in touch to ask for some advice around two major turning points that are happening in her life right now. One's a personal issue and one's a professional

Starting point is 00:00:52 one. But they're both big topics and as always, I want to know more. So let's get started. Welcome to It Can't Just Be Me. Hi Anna. Hey Anna. Hey Anna. Hi Anna. Hey Anna. Hi Anna. Hi Anna. Hi Anna. Welcome to It Can't just be me. It can't just be me, right? Today's guest is a multi-award winning, globally renowned, competitive dance champion whose expertise is beamed into the living rooms of millions of viewers every weekend. It is, of course, Shirley Ballas. We all know Shirley as the head judge on the

Starting point is 00:01:46 BBC's hit show Strictly Come Dancing. She joined the series in 2017, filling the enormous shoes of the much-loved late Len Goodman. Although he was a tough act to follow, Shirley had the credentials to take on the role of TV's most senior dance expert, having won countless international championships and holding records that remain unbeaten to this day. At 63, Shirley is living proof of a successful woman in her prime. Not only is she an expert judge, she's also now author of the crime novel Murder on the Dance Floor.

Starting point is 00:02:23 A woman who continues to live a full and fascinating life. A life marked by significant highs as well as some crushing lows. So I've got no doubt at all that she'll have invaluable advice to share with us. Here she is. It's Shirley Ballas. Shirley Ballas, Queen of the Dance Floor, Head Judge and new author of Murder on the Dance Floor. What a fantastic title, by the way. Welcome to It Can't Just Be Me. It's been a really busy few months for you, particularly with writing as well. So fill me in. How are you? How do you manage? How do you get everything done? Well, life is definitely busy for sure. And, you know, I wrote my autobiography some time back,

Starting point is 00:03:06 but there were so many stories in my autobiography that I couldn't write because they wouldn't let me. So my mum said afterwards, why don't you write a cosy crime novel? And you could write all those stories under fictitious names. And I thought, ooh, 55 years of dirt from my industry going in a cosy crime novel. And then everyone's trying to guess who you're talking about. Well, you have to guess, did I take part in it? Did I witness it?

Starting point is 00:03:31 Or is it fiction? And it's built on sex, lies, intrigue, backstabbing, bed-hopping, manipulation. You've got it when you read that book, I'm telling you. Although no one guesses the murderer. Shirley Ballas' middle names. There you go. Sex, lies, intrigue, murder. I can highly recommend it, actually.

Starting point is 00:03:49 It's a fabulous book. Looks fabulous. Thank you. And the whole thing is hilarious and also just completely intriguing. Well, my wonderful son did my cover for me. You know, it suggested. Yes, he suggested. That's the current world champion that's on the front page.

Starting point is 00:04:03 So he suggested how they stood and, you know, with the knife and the dress. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. Yeah, I think so. It is brilliant. But before we dive into anything else, and we are here to talk about our main dilemma today from a listener called Amanda. Each week, I do invite my guests to share their very own It Can't Just Be Me bugbear. So Shirley, what have you got for us? Well, it can't just be me who hoards clothes. So, you know, over the years, I've collected almost every evening dress that I've ever worn. I'm in an industry with all sorts of gowns and judging, and I can't seem to let anything go. I think it's actually an issue.

Starting point is 00:04:44 And my mother's like that. I remember when my mother moved to the United States to be with me. And my brother still lived in the house when he was alive at the time with his girlfriend. And the girlfriend used to steal my mother's clothes. So what my mother started to do was leave messages in the shoe and in the pocket that said basically, Tiddle off and wear your own clothes. Hands off. So she doesn't let me wear any of her clothes.

Starting point is 00:05:04 She's really reluctant even if it comes to a scarf. She's very protective about her clothing. Your mum? Yes, she was born with four girls and a brother. So she said, back in the day, you really took care of your things and I'm the same. Right down to a pair of tights, if there's a hole in it, I have a problem throwing those tights away.

Starting point is 00:05:20 I've got every piece of clothing. If you ever want to come to my house, if you ever need a dress, I can help you with that. that well apart from the fact that you're about a size six to eight and I am let's put a zero on the end of that for me so there's no way I'd be able to get into them but I love the idea that you've kept everything for the last what 30 years yeah I mean I've got dressing gowns I've got evening wear afternoon wear I've even got the dress that I did my 50th birthday party and I'll be 64 next year 14 14 years ago. It's still hanging there. Every time I walk past it, I have that memory. So each piece of clothing for me is a memory. And my dresser, Alexandria,

Starting point is 00:05:55 who dresses me for seven years on Strictly, she said, I think it's a real issue. She said, I think I'm going to have to come round and sort through. So we decide what you can keep and what you can't. So I've decided now that I'm actually going to start putting some of the clothes on this thing called Vinted. I knew you were going to say Vinted. And I'll tell you why. For Calm, Campaign Against Living Miserably. So rather than sitting in my closet and me not parting with them, I'm actually going to put it out there for people to help with my charity. That's a really, really good idea.

Starting point is 00:06:23 Would you go under, well, you'd go under your name, obviously, because you're raising funds for Calm. Oh, I'd go under my own name because I really want to do well. You know, I did my Skyathlon this year for Calm, raised £50,000 on my own. So I want to keep going and seeing different ways that I can help that charity because I believe in it. You know, I lost my brother to suicide.

Starting point is 00:06:41 So I really want to see how much further I can take the charity and help in any way possible that I can so it's just parting with the clothes and you know actually putting there and taking the picture but I can do it I know I can. I could talk about your miles and miles and miles of dresses all day but we are actually here to dispense some much-needed advice to, Amanda, and to help us both out with this. We're joined by psychotherapist Fiona Cao. Fiona, it is lovely to have you back. How are you? Thank you. It is amazing to be back and I'm really good. Thank you. And are you listening to Shirley and thinking, God, yes, this woman needs help? I need all the help I can get, I'll tell you.

Starting point is 00:07:23 No, you know what, as I was listening to you, I was thinking, gosh, I wish my mom had kept some of her clothes. You know, I think they take so much value. There's so much memories attached. And especially now that you can use them for your charity. I think that's incredible. Okay, let's refocus, girls, because we are here to give our life advice to Amanda. Here we go. Hi, Anna our life advice to Amanda. Here we go. Hi, Anna. My name is Amanda. I'm a 40-year-old married woman, and I'm going through some big changes in my life right now. And I would really appreciate some advice about some direction.

Starting point is 00:08:00 So two major things have happened recently. My only child, my daughter, has left home to go to university in another country. I was a single parent for 15 years, so it will be the first time in 19 years that I won't have my amazing daughter by my side almost every day. So this is the first major change. The next thing is I was very recently and unexpectedly made redundant from the job and the role that I've also had for 21 years, which has come as a bit of a shock. So right now, I am processing all of these changes. And I guess trying to figure out what I'm going to do with the next chapter of my life. I've realized that as a 40 year old woman I've spent half my life, 20 years, being in the roles and the positions that I've been in for the last 20 years so this is a huge

Starting point is 00:09:16 shift in identity for me not being an active mother shall we say somebody who's needed in her daughter's life on a daily basis although I'll always be here for her and not being in the employment role and the financial role that I've always been in as well so yeah these changes right now are huge. And I would really appreciate your advice on where do I go next? I don't know what to do next. It's very strange. All right. Thank you. Bye.

Starting point is 00:09:55 Wow. There is a lot to unpack in this dilemma. There's so much change for Amanda going on. change for Amanda going on. I want to start with that news that her only daughter has recently left home to go to university and go to university in a different country. Now, Shirley, you've got experience of long distance relationships, both as a mother and a daughter. So talk to us a little bit about that. Just how difficult is it? Well, Mark left home when he was 21. We lived in London and he moved back to the United States. And I have to say it was probably one of the most difficult times ever in my life.

Starting point is 00:10:35 Nobody warned me how it was going to feel to be an empty nester. How does it feel? I mean, he's 37 now. And on a daily basis, I call him, I FaceTime and I've explained to him I need that even if it's just two minutes just to talk to him see his face on FaceTime he could be busy and just say you know mum I'm busy today but as long as I see him just a few minutes I'm actually okay but it's never gotten easier for me I've got some friends who are like goodbye darling with their children and I've never been like that.

Starting point is 00:11:06 I was like this young lady. I was very close to Mark, single child. And it's difficult and it's still difficult to this very day, I have to say. You've also been the daughter that's gone as well. How was that for your mum? Well, my mum had my brother at the time, so they lived together. And I left home when I was 14. And I think my mother found that extremely difficult and in her own mind she thought she'll be back in about six months.

Starting point is 00:11:36 I never came home but what she fast realized that she had sort of given me all the tools I needed to move on in my life and as I say to her today at 86 you should be very proud of yourself for giving me the tools that I was able to leave and stand on my own feet. Why did you leave at 14? To move to Yorkshire. I lived in Wallasey and I was a young girl and I wanted to dance. And I got this opportunity to dance with Nigel Tiffany, the British Open to the World Ballroom Champion. We didn't have any money for travel, so it meant me moving there, changing schools. And then again at 16, I moved to London. Since 14, I never went back and moved in. Although my mother's lived with

Starting point is 00:12:09 me on and off when I had a baby throughout the years. But it's still difficult. I can't go a day without talking to my mum. And I really like to talk to my son on a daily basis. And I'm interested to know as well, for your mum, whether she felt that grief when you were 14 of leaving. I think if my mother felt that grief, she never shared it. My mother is from an era where you don't share and you don't talk. When my brother passed away, it was very much for years put under the rug. There was no communicative skills there. She just supported me as she did throughout all my life.

Starting point is 00:12:44 My mother's very much about get on with it, you know, keep moving forward, swim upstream, don't look backwards. You know, even when I was being oysted out my industry by men, she was the one who said, okay, let's research now what other kind of job you can do. She was never one for sitting there and let me whine in my soup. It was never allowed. So yeah, she's a really quite quiet person, my mum. And when it comes to sharing feelings, it's very much non-existent for my mum. I've got to ask you, Fiona, how common is it for parents to struggle with their identity once their children have left home? I think it's very, very common. I mean, it's such a big change, right? You were that parent for

Starting point is 00:13:21 so many years, you were kind of everything. And even though as adolescents, they'd start taking off a little bit, but that moving out, I think, is such a reminder of, wow, they're becoming adults. They're moving into their next part of their life. And what does that mean for me? I think it brings so much questioning for parents. find that some parents find it very difficult to let go. I'm just thinking about Amanda's dilemma here. She sounds so lost now that her daughter's gone to university. Yeah, I think, I mean, especially because it's just the two of them. So I can really imagine that they are really close, that now it's not only that her daughter has left, it's also that she now lives alone. So what does that mean for Amanda? What is she going to do with that empty space? You know, the more time that she has, I can really understand why she's struggling with that. And is there something about only having one child, Shirley? I mean, you can identify with this, I should imagine, because you've got Mark, haven't you? Yes. So you've got your one baby,

Starting point is 00:14:18 and Amanda's got her one baby. And for a while, presumably, you were bringing him up on your own is that right yes from 15 when his dad and i decided to split then i had mark on my own for a while there and uh you know you get used to the company the noise so you get up in the morning you hear the dishes in the kitchen then you hear the noise at night and that laundry everywhere and this and that and the other and then when they've gone there's none of that none. For me, it was the sound of silence that was actually more difficult than anything else. And do you find that difficult now? Well, I've got my mother living with me now, but I don't like being alone. I might need a little help on that. I'm a little bit codependent. I think myself, I like people. I like to know my mum's there. I like to know them. I talk to Mark

Starting point is 00:15:04 every day. When I'm left on my own, it's all these thoughts come thundering back in my head throughout the 55 years in the industry and then losing my brother and blame and all that kind of thing so I'm busy when I'm busy 24 7 and I know I'm coming home to my mum who's prepared my dinner and done my washing and I rather like that. Well let's talk a little bit more about that because it strikes me that so much of Amanda's issue is about loss. It's about change. And it's also, I think, about shock. And I know that you've mentioned it, obviously, your brother's passing, which was an absolute tragedy. How do people cope and recover? How did you cope and recover following his passing? Well, when David passed away 20 years ago now, it's been we've just had his anniversary, we didn't cope. We didn't know a lot about mental health. We had no advice. We had no counsellor. We

Starting point is 00:15:59 had nothing at all to help us. We went through at least 10 to 12 years of self-blame. We lived with that. I tell you, it was like a heavy burden on your back. There was just the three of us, my brother, myself, and my mother. I didn't have a father that was present. And when he went, so suddenly, such a shock, with no preparation, and no letter left, with so many unanswered questions, with a beautiful 10- 10 year old daughter that he was raising I cannot tell you how that felt it was beyond anything that's even explainable because at the time you know people were saying oh I understand well actually no you don't because unless you've actually lost a loved one no one can tell you how to feel no one can ever help that empty void

Starting point is 00:16:43 get all emotional let me take a moment there nobody can ever help that empty void get all emotional let me take a moment there nobody can ever understand that empty void and that self-blame that you put on yourself so very very difficult times for me I am really interested in this because my grandmother took her own life and I didn't know my grandmother but the impact that it has had on my mother and then her ability to mother and she had to identify her mother's body and she was 19 so I'm very interested in the impact of particularly a suicide and I just wonder whether maybe we can bring Fiona in on this. Fiona what is it about suicide that impacts people so very very specifically? I shirley's touched on it

Starting point is 00:17:26 the shock the guilt the the grief the confusion just talk us through a little bit about how it impacts people it is actually a trauma you know it is so traumatic it is so sudden and then as a close one you you lived with a survivor's guilt it's kind of always this questioning why did i see the signs? What could I have done differently? What could I have done to save that person? And that's so, so tough for family. And then you also have that sudden passing, right?

Starting point is 00:17:54 It's not like you're caring for a person who has an illness, for example. It's really that sudden news. It's that whole combination. It's not only that you lose someone someone but you also have so many questions left the why now we've had a bit of counseling on it of course i work for mental health and we've learned a lot if i knew them what i know now i think he might have even been sitting here with us over there on the chair you know he was my cheerleader but i knew nothing no education and i feel today education is key and And I still don't feel there

Starting point is 00:18:25 is enough education in schools for young boys and girls on any platform at all. I think we're only scratching the surface because I don't know how you feel, but I feel it's still a bit of a taboo subject, suicide. Oh, yeah. Personally, people, if you try to express like even this season with David, you know, his anniversary, I try to reach out to talk to friends and it's a brisk conversation. They do not want to talk about it. I can't talk about it with my mother. So then I hold everything and I go to my room and I feel alone and I feel like I'm to blame. It never goes away.

Starting point is 00:18:58 It never really goes away. You just learn to live with it, I think. Just bringing this gently back to Amanda's issue, and I'm fully aware of the fact that, thank God, she's not experienced that within her own life. But she is experiencing loss, she is experiencing shock. So what advice do we have around how do we make this less painful for her? And B, how does she start addressing that hole in her life, that need to be needed, would you say? I think it's very interesting, Anna, that you are trying to take her pain away. Yeah. And I think that's actually not what we're trying to do. So we value her pain.

Starting point is 00:19:39 Her pain is telling her something. Her pain is telling her, my daughter is important to me, and I'm losing something. I'm going through change. So I would actually recommend for Amanda to allow herself to be in that pain, maybe sometimes snuggle into her daughter's bed and really miss her and have a good cry, but not try and push the feelings away. You're very right to sort of pick us up on that because I suppose our natural instinct, isn't it to go you know how can I soothe this for you I want to take this away for you so you don't hurt but you're saying no you've got to allow yourself. I think it's interesting you said that because I still carry Mark's pillow I still have his teddy I've never said that before but I do you know he has his room and I go in there sometimes I look at all his pictures and I'm grateful that he's been

Starting point is 00:20:25 able to move on in his life as a strong character but I also found that staying busy for me not too much time where I was overthinking things because sometimes you can overthink things for me staying busy and trying to plan an exciting new future can be quite nice that's true but it can also be a distraction though can't it, Fiona? Do you think that if we're being very, very busy, that sometimes that's a distraction from what we're really feeling? That's me. I mean, yeah, it's about the right balance, right? Because what we also hear for Amanda, she also has to do something, right? I guess she needs to find a new job. She needs to adjust to that new life. So it's really about that. How can I

Starting point is 00:21:03 make sure that I move on, that I take initiative to find new things, but also that I carve out time for my pain, for my loss, take time to process this and maybe make arrangements with her daughter. How can we communicate? How often can I call you? How often can we speak? Because I mean, I'm also a daughter and I can also understand that in the early twenties, sometimes you don't want to talk to your parents, right? You kind of like want to be left alone so I think it's really important that they communicate about how can they actually meet both needs. Let's talk a bit about the unexpected shock that she's had in her professional life now so Fiona from a psychological point of view

Starting point is 00:21:41 how can being made redundant affect us emotionally? I mean, massively. I think there can be, especially if it's unexpectedly, I think we can take such a hit in our self-confidence. And especially after such a long time. I mean, 21 years, right? Yeah, that's so long. So I can imagine that Amanda is probably going through a lot of questioning. What did I do wrong?

Starting point is 00:22:02 Where did I go wrong? And this is absolutely normal. It's normal to have that questioning. But I really hope that she I go wrong and this is absolutely normal it's normal to have that questioning but I really hope that she can be again be gentle with herself and I actually what I found really interesting from a coaching perspective is to maybe see this time now even though it's really challenging as an opportunity and think about how can I make this an opportunity you know there's a chance here to actually do something very differently now. Well, Shirley, over 55 years, you must have had some really awful shocks in your career. Can you identify with what Amanda's saying here?

Starting point is 00:22:34 I can in a way, because in 2015, 16, 17, I was being badly bullied in an industry. My industry is primarily run by men and they were stopping my work. So I was at the very, very top of the tree teaching all the top competitors in the world. And then these men at the top started to stop my work. I don't know whether they didn't like it, that I was becoming quite a somebody in the industry, a great teacher or whatever. I talked to my mother about it. I did communicate with her. And she said, it's your ego talking, Shirley. You're just nervous about losing all these couples. She said, teach beginners. Start again. If you lose all your work, what about yoga? What about this?

Starting point is 00:23:15 She started putting all these ideas on the table. And for me, it was quite devastating at the time because I was used to being at the very, very top and then Strictly came along out of the blue in 2017. I'd never done a day's work in television in my life. I did have the qualifications, but I didn't have the behind the camera qualifications, if you like. And then from this bullying and this losing all my work and thinking to myself, I have to start from scratch now, came this job. So sometimes we're derailed a little bit on the train and we're feeling bad about everything. And then an opportunity comes along and then we can embrace it. So what that opportunity is at the moment for her, we don't know. But I'm quite confident, like you said, that something somewhere will come along, hopefully. When one door closes, another one opens.

Starting point is 00:24:02 Another door absolutely opens. You've just got to be open to seeing it, haven't you? So I love that advice you're giving there for Amanda, saying it can feel really painful right now. And actually, there's a lot of anger there, but absolutely something else will come along. I love what you just said about embracing the pain, you know, because sometimes I thought to myself, you know, that's not a good thing. But I learned that today that it's actually okay to take yourself off into a quiet place,

Starting point is 00:24:28 embrace the pain, go with the tears, cry with the teddy or the pillow. It's okay. Absolutely. You know what? Actually, I often hear that getting over a setback like this in your career often creates the best opportunities. Sometimes you really have to kind of take a step back and then you take a big leap forward. Fiona, this is a bit of a bigger question, but how do you advise clients when it comes to finding purpose in life? Because what I'm hearing a bit with Amanda is she feels like

Starting point is 00:24:54 she's lost her purpose. So what would you say? What can people do? I feel like Amanda needs to get to know herself now with who she is now with her daughter not being that present in her life who does she want to be I mean she's still young she still has many years ahead of her many years of working as well she needs to find out who is she without this aspect in her life oh that's very interesting so she's been defined as her daughter's mother and this person that works in this particular industry but actually actually, well, who are you? Who are you? Exactly.

Starting point is 00:25:26 Who are you? And this is in therapy. We very often work on this. It's kind of like, who is your authentic self? Who would you have become if you hadn't had all these influences in your life? Who is your core child self? We're different people throughout different stages of our life. Under 12 and then those adolescent years, then adulthood, then marriages, then no marriages, and then those adolescent years then adulthood then marriages

Starting point is 00:25:45 then no marriages and then business problems and then no problem i mean it's just constantly changing i feel sometimes to go with the change and do some searching yeah i've learned from you today thank you very much i'll take that one too yeah the different aspects of of ourselves of our own identity okay before we tie this up i I want to leave Amanda with some concrete advice. So she's asked, where do I go next? So what steps can Amanda take? I'm thinking just in terms of how does she fill her schedule? How does she stay optimistic? Fiona, just give me maybe just three tips. I mean, it really depends. We don't know whether Amanda is still in her job and whether she has kind of a transition period, right? But I think if, you know, if she doesn't have a schedule to follow, I think it's really important when you have that emptiness in your day

Starting point is 00:26:32 to create your own kind of schedule to maybe work out in the morning, have that coffee, meet friends, or maybe even go to a certain place, go to a coffee shop and bring your laptop and do your research there it's really important to keep your agenda similar to structure to have a structure yes so structure is important and shelly you're not i can't live without a structure really i still have a hard back diary that i get every year i don't do anything on the phone or the computer and i write my day out from 5 a.m in the morning till evening i don't think it's always a good thing because what I'm learning is that I have to take a little bit of personal time and it's okay to have that time. I fill my schedule. I know what I'm doing on every hour. So my day goes by so fast that sometimes I wonder, did I really enjoy the day? Did I take time to really smell the coffee, as they say? So I think scheduling for me is key.

Starting point is 00:27:25 What I'm hearing from you, actually, is that yes, you're very highly structured and very highly scheduled and very successful. But perhaps you are missing that Shirley time of just sitting there and who am I when I just sit without that schedule? Oh, for sure. I don't have Shirley time. I do not. And I'm hoping when I move into 2024, I can find that. Although on Strictly Come Dancing this year, Annabelle said, you know, she'd made all these plans with her husband and none of those plans will ever be. So don't wait. Do what you want to do in today and enjoy the moment. And, you know, again, if this day is really dark and cloudy it too will pass to brighter tomorrow. Shirley, Fiona thank you so much for your advice on this and if you're listening and you've been in a similar situation to Amanda and maybe you've got some good tips for her then please do get in touch with us we read every single thing that comes our way and we will happily pass it on to her to help her. But in the meantime, we just about have some time left for a quick fire dilemma. So

Starting point is 00:28:32 are you ready, you two? Yes. We're just getting into this. Okay. This one's from Chris. Hi, Anna. My name's Chris. I'm with my partner, Barry. We loved listening to your podcast, partner Barry. We loved listening to your podcast, really enjoyed it, which has inspired us to record this voicemail for you and ask a few questions. I came out when I was 40. My partner came out a little bit younger than that, probably about 30 something. We're very happy. We were both in relationships with women. We have two children each. We've managed to navigate a wonderful life and we're very, very happy. But the question is, Anna, why do women or I guess people in relationships once they're married decide to keep the married surname? married surname. So my ex-wife still carries my surname and so does my partner's ex-wife. So I'm very, very curious to see what your thoughts are on this. And yeah, that's it. Speak to you soon. Bye-bye. Oh, well, this is a fascinating one. And I'm looking at you, Miss Ballas. What have you got to say on this topic? Because I do believe

Starting point is 00:29:42 your husband obviously was Corky Ballas and you've kept Ballas. I kept Ballas because my son was born out of love and then it became Mark Ballas, Shirley Ballas, Corky Ballas but years later when the relationship fell apart Corky would often be the compere at a competition and he refused to announce me with my surname. So he would say from the United Kingdom, Shirley. But my name is Shirley Ballas and that's what we did when we got married. I took his name, same name as my son. We'd been married for 22 years.

Starting point is 00:30:15 My little boy was Mark Ballas. I didn't want to go under Shirley Rich, which was my maiden name. I wanted to have the same name as my son. Shirley, this is so interesting to me. What an amazing story. Thank you for that. Because just the fact that you started off with, I married my husband, we loved each other, my child was born out of love. That's our name. Don't take that from me, along with everything else. I get that. Fiona, just talk to us a little bit about why is name so important to us as our identity, really?

Starting point is 00:30:46 I mean, it's the first thing that people read about us, right? Or that we're introduced with. And then also, I think, you know, when children are involved, I would want to have the same name as my children as well. So I can understand that women would like to keep their names. And then also, imagine you're a public figure, you've used your name, and then you have to go and change it. And also, I think there might be a little bit of shame behind that. For a man who gets divorced, right, you will never know when the name changes. For a woman to go back to her maiden name, it's kind of like, oh, she's divorced. Yeah. So again, it sort of comes back to the struggle of women, isn't it? It's all this shit that we have to put up with. And then,

Starting point is 00:31:22 as you say, the shame attached to, well, now you're a divorced woman, you've got to go back to your maiden name. What does that say about you? Good for you, Shirley. He fought, though, hard. The Queen, Shirley Ballas, won. You do not take on the Ballas this much. Plus, I love the name Ballas. Of course.

Starting point is 00:31:39 Now, Shirley Ballas, it has been an absolute pleasure to have had you in the studio today. Thank you so much for all of your insight and your honesty and your beauty, actually, with your life and your story. We really do appreciate the fact that you've come in and been with us today. Thank you. Thank you. And Fiona, your expertise, as always, has been invaluable.

Starting point is 00:32:02 Once again, thank you very much for being here with us. We'll be back to kick off 2024 with a bang. If you want honest conversation with guests who are unafraid to tell you what they really think, then right here is where you need to be, starting with Jess Phillips. In the new year, we want to discuss your experiences of the menopause, In the new year, we want to discuss your experiences of the menopause, psychics and astrology, feeling anger and rage and much, much more. But we need you to make those conversations happen. If you find yourself with a dilemma and you want some unfiltered advice, then please send us a voice note to itcan'tjustbeme.co.uk or you can email itcan'tjustbeme at podimo.com. And if once a week just isn't enough for you, remember, you can also find us on social media.

Starting point is 00:32:53 We're on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook. And you can also watch full episodes on YouTube. Just search for It Can't Just Be Me. And remember, whatever you're dealing with, I promise you, it really isn't just you. From Podimo and Mags, this has been It Can't Just Be Me, hosted by me, Anna Richardson. The producers are Laura Williams and Christy Calloway-Gale. The editor is Kit Nilsson. And the executive producers for Podimo are Jake Chudnow and Matt White. The executive producer for Mags is James Norman Fyfe.

Starting point is 00:33:26 Don't forget to follow the show or for early access to episodes and to listen ad-free, subscribe to Podimo UK on Apple Podcasts.

It Can't Just Be Me - 28: Navigating Big Life Changes? With Shirley Ballas

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