It Can't Just Be Me - 3: Disability on my dating profile? With Rosie Jones

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

Comedian Rosie Jones joins Anna to tackle a dilemma from a woman preparing to get back on the dating scene. Along the way Rosie opens up about her own dating history, and reveals the moving moment she realised she was worthy of love as a woman living with cerebral palsy.Anna and Rosie are joined in the studio by Jennie Williams, CEO of Enhance the UK. This charity runs The Love Lounge, an initiative that gives disabled people one-to-one advice on dating and intimacy. We want to thank Enhance the UK for their support in making this episode. …Have questions about sex? Divorce? Motherhood? Menopause? Mental health? With no topic off limits, Anna’s here to prove that whatever you’re going through, it’s not just you.If you have a dilemma you’d like unpacked, visit itcantjustbeme.co.uk and record a voice note. Or tell Anna all about it in an email to [e-mail] podcast contains adult themes that may not be suitable for children. Listener caution is advised. Please note that advice given on this podcast is not intended to replace the input of a trained professional. If you’ve been affected by anything raised in this episode and want extra support, we encourage you to reach out to your general practitioner or an accredited professional. From Podimo & Mags CreativeProducer: Alice Homewood with support from Laura WilliamsEditor: Kit MilsomTheme music: Kit MilsomExecutive producers for Podimo: Jake Chudnow and Matt WhiteFollow @annarichardso and @podimo_uk on Instagram for weekly updates Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Jordan North. And I'm William Hanson. And together we host Help I Sexed My Boss, a podcast that combines William's world of etiquette tips with Jordan's special northern charm. We help navigate the everyday challenges of modern life. Like how to tell someone that their breath smells like death. And of course, what should you do if you've accidentally sexed your boss.

Just search for Help I Sexed My Boss on your chosen podcast platform and let us help you change your life for the better. Or potentially maybe make things worse. It could go either way. Welcome to It Can't Just Be Me. On this podcast, I'm joined by a celebrity guest and a brilliant expert every week, and together we tackle a dilemma sent in by you. Our goal is to get you some useful advice and have a bit of fun along the way. Today's episode is all about dating and working out how much of ourselves to share up front. Should we put in our dating profile that we have a disability, for example, or talk about

our neurodiversity on a first date? And do people have a right to know these things anyway? Let's try and work it out. This is It Can't Just Be Me. Hi, Anna. Hey, Anna. Hey, Anna. Hi, Anna. Hey, Anna. Hi, Anna. Hi, Anna. Hi, Anna. It can't just be me who's really struggling with staying faithful. I definitely got menopause brain. I really want children and he doesn't. I had feelings of jealousy. It's just all around the middle. I feel like a Teletubby. And then I hated myself for feeling that way. If you've got any advice. I would really appreciate any advice. It can't just be me. It can't just be me, right? I am so excited to be joined by the comedian and writer Rosie Jones today. Rosie has appeared on a plethora of TV shows, including QI, The Last Leg and 8 Out of 10 Cats. She also has her own travel show called Trip Hazard.

And she's written two children's books about a little girl living with cerebral palsy, inspired by Rosie's own experiences growing up with the condition. The things I love most about Rosie are her joyfulness, her honesty, and you know what? The fact that she's really quite naughty. So here she is, Rosie Jones. Rosie Jones, you superstar. Hello, how are you? Hello, I'm really good. I'm so happy to be here with you. I've got to tell you, I'm surprised you didn't fall into the studio today like you did on the stage at the Royal Albert Hall, the Teenage Cancer Trust thing the other night. Yeah, I thought that was part of your act. brilliant gig. I was so nervous

because I grew up watching Victoria Woods DVDs live at the Albert Hall. So I was getting ready backstage and I think my agent jinxed it. Because she was like, all you need to do is to walk out there, don't fall over and tell jokes.

And I was like, easy peasy. And as soon as I went out and thought about Victoria Wood, and I thought, shit, I'm doing it, I'm doing it. And then, bang, what was great was my walk on music was chumba wumba. I get knocked down, but I get up again. So I think you thought I did it on purpose. I thought it was on purpose. I was a bit like, that is genius that you come on stage and just fall over in front of everyone.

It was brilliant. Now, listen, obviously, you are a comedian and therefore a very funny person. But I also know that you are full of wisdom, Rosie Jones. So, I'm expecting some real gems of advice from you today. Right. Zero pressure. Now, before we get stuck into the serious stuff, every week I ask my guests to bring in their own

It Can't Just Be Me dilemma. What have you got for me? Right. It can't just be me who feels so awkward at the end of the meal when it comes to paying that I normally sneak off and pay for the whole table. So you go and pay for the whole table because you feel awkward? Yeah. I just hate when a bill comes and someone gets a calculator out and then someone else goes, well, you had wine, I didn't have wine.

I don't care. I can't bear it. I mean, what I've done also here is I've given you a little problem for actually saying, look at me, I'm so generous. I know. That's a little bit double-sided, your dilemma, because you're going, look at how amazing I am. Do you know, is it that you hate, because I hate tight people. Yeah.

I'm happy to say that. Yeah. I hate tight people. I hate their reputation as a person from Yorkshire that I am a tight lass. No. So you're going to the other extreme, Rosie,

of going, I'm so not tight that I'm going to pay for the entire restaurant. I'm paying for the entire county of Yorkshire. I actually love you for that and more power to you. I am going to the entire county of Yorkshire. I actually love you for that. And more power to you.

I am going to come out for dinner with you, Rosie Jones. Yes, and I will pay. You're on, you're on. Now, listen, today we do have a job to do. I'm going to steer you away from paying for everybody in the studio and edge you towards today's dilemma. And to help us with that, I'm delighted to say that we're also joined by another guest, Jenny Williams, CEO of the charity Enhance the UK. Jenny, hello. Well, can I come out for dinner with you, Rosie? Yeah. Get that booked in. Hello. Thank you very much for having me. Jenny, tell us a little bit about

what you guys do at Enhance the UK. Okay. So we are a disability led charity, which means all of us have got disabilities, impairments ourselves. So we support disabled people to have an active sex life. And when people go, what does that mean? It's not just about sex. It's about everything that's to do with that. So it's dating, sexual identity, sexual expression, getting your nails done, getting your hair done, all the things that make us feel good about ourselves. From sex education all the way up to if people have acquired disabilities, helping them grieve, helping them re-examine their bodies, rediscover erogenous zones, all of those things. It's all about the education, isn't it? And inclusivity as well. Now, listen, you've brought in a dilemma from a member of your community today. So let's get started. Here's

Charlie. Hello, I have a question around whether you should disclose on your dating profile if you are neurodivergent or not. I'm just starting to get back into dating and I've never had it on a dating profile before, but I have ADHD. Some of my partners in the past have been supportive, some haven't. And I think it comes down to that a lot of people don't actually know much about it. So I don't know if I should put it there from the get-go so that people can ask questions. And also, you know, if I'm on a first date, it might help to explain things why I struggle with eye contact or, you know, I don't really like hugs or, you know, things like that. Or whether it's kind of like a tier three dates, kind of explain it a little bit more once someone's got

to know you. What would you suggest? Because I want to try and be as honest with a potential new partner as I can. Wow. Okay. So Charlie wants to know whether they should put their ADHD diagnosis on their dating profile or whether to wait until there are a few dates in. This is really interesting, isn't it? What made you decide to bring this one in, Jenny? You know what, this is one of the most common dilemmas that we have. And the reason that this is such a common dilemma is lots and lots of people have hidden disabilities. People say, well, if I'm a wheelchair user, everybody can see that. But if I've got a hidden disability, nobody can see it. So at what point is it that I should disclose?

ADHD comes under the umbrella of neurodiversity. And, you know, for years and years and years, people think, oh, it's the naughty boy in the playground on school. But lots of women, particularly later on in life, are now getting diagnosed. As Charlie said, eye contact can be really difficult. People quite often misdiagnose it for depression. And some people need medication for it. But it can be very, very depression and some people need medication for it. But it can be very, very difficult for some people to function day to day. OK, thank you for that. Rosie, what is your initial gut reaction to whether or not Charlie should put this on their dating profile first? It's so hard and I think with everything when it comes to disability, it's about your individual preference. quite hesitant to go into a first date without the date knowing.

But from my experience, it felt like I was revealing too much about myself. Oh, really? Yeah. too much about myself. Oh, really? Yeah. So I've had a hate-hate relationship with dating apps. I tried them twice. I tried them about 12 years ago when I was dating men

and whenever I put my disability on my description, I would get no matches. None. Really? None. Really? None. So if you disclosed up front, I have cerebral palsy, you'd get no matches? None. Well, I got one and it was a guy who said, I'm turned on by disabled people. No!

Yeah. And then when I took my disability off the description, immediately I would get matches. But when you're playing a merry dance of at what point during the chat do I tell them, do I go, hello, I'm Rosie, I'm disabled. go, hello, I'm Rosie, I'm disabled. And then do you wait till you've been talking for two or three days? Because then it felt weird that they knew what sandwich I ate for lunch, but they don't know this massive part of who I am. And then, arguably, my disability is my business,

so there is an argument for saying, could I have gone on that literal first date without ever telling them? But I never did because my disability, slightly different from younger, diverse people, is they would know as soon as I fell through the door. So I never did that first date. I think that opens a very interesting conversation around could somebody fall in love with you over a dating app without you revealing?

Yeah, that's a really, really tricky one because my disability and you need all the information. So, as I said, I wouldn't go on a date without disclosing it because they need to beore of the whole Jones. The whole Jones. So you're saying that now, because you're happily single, you would now say, I have cerebral palsy. You need to know this about me. Yes. I mean, people know it because you're famous.

Yeah. But you would disclose that. Yeah. Yeah. Is it dishonest not to tell somebody, do you think, Jenny? I think it's exactly what Rosie said. I think it's a really personal journey. There's no right or wrong answer to this.

And it's a very big thing, sharing something about yourself to somebody. And I do think there's a sense of responsibility you have to the other person. I mean, an example, I'm a hearing aid user. I lip read, I arranged a date, went on a dog walk in the evening, walking along next to each other. And I was like, this is the worst idea I could possibly have had. And in the end, I had to go, I need to tell you, I'm a hearing aid user, I can't lip read you. I was about to fall over and

break my neck. But there really isn't a right or wrong. And also, you can change profiles. If you're feeling really good about yourself, you know, dating can be brutal, whether you've got disability or not. And if you're feeling in a good place and you want to put it on a profile, you can. Weeks later, you can take it off. And also I think it depends on which dating app you go on, because there are some that are really open and honest. And I'm seeing a trend, people being a lot more honest and open about neurodiversity, much more. And they're putting things like, I'm neurodiverse, ask me which flavour, you know, and things

like that. So I think the physical disability people aren't talking about as much, but neurodiversity is much more commonplace now with younger people. How do you find that people tend to react when you disclose that you have a disability whether hidden or not are you hearing from your members about how the general public or able-bodied people are reacting to it we call it the tosser filter and um and it's a really good one you know and it is quite literally that you know there are some people who just ghost you completely. But then again, people do that anyway.

And all jokes aside, you know, Rosie's mentioned there's somebody went, oh, I like disabled people. Devotees are real. Devotee, what is that? It's a name and it's a term used for people who fetishize disabled people or disabilities. So one of the most common fetish can be somebody who has had an amputation, for example. Emily Yates did a wonderful documentary on this. She's a wheelchair user. You should check it out. And again, that's a whole conversation we're not going to get into, but people fetishize about disabled people. So you have got to be careful if you're putting

yourself out there as well, that you're not just attracting devotees. The wrong tossers. The wrong tossers. wrong tosses and some devotees are lovely not saying everybody is and I'm not gonna fetish shame but there are conversations that you need to be having that someone's with you because they want they like you not because they've got a thing about your disability so there is a lot to it isn't there Rosie when it comes to like how you present yourself and how you're feeling that day or that week and can I ask a bit of a difficult question actually it's just occurred to me people with disabilities do they have a hierarchy of not going out with you because you wear a hearing aid but

I'm in a wheelchair do you know what I mean that's such a good question do you mind me jumping in and then well I think number one there's massively internalized ableism in all of us you know like and so people like massively what do you mean by that well I think number one, there's massively internalised ableism in all of us, you know, like disabled people, massively. What do you mean by that? Well, I think certain disabled people, you know, you kind of, when you're younger, say you go for a hearing test, say, you hear all these negative words. You know, your hearing's not great. You're not on the normal range. And actually from a very young age, you hear very negative things and you internalise that. And it might sound really petty if you haven't experienced that but it's something that stays with you so quite a lot of the time if you're a disabled

person you kind of go I want to be with a non-disabled person to like normalize and balance myself out lots of people feel like that and then non-disabled people think that all disabled people just want to be together and actually shouldn't it just be like I fancy you fancy me let's get it on you know but did you have or do you have that internalized ableism Rosie? 100% every day yeah and it's only now in my 30s that I can recognize it and I can recognise it and I can stop myself. I'm going to show off now. But I recently did a photo shoot for Vogue. And it was huge.

And it was huge. And I felt so sexy and attractive. And I looked at the photos. And I'm ashamed to say that my first thought was, great, I don't look disabled because I'm still fighting that thought of if I have a bit of dribble on my chin, if I hold my mouth a certain way, I look like I've got cerebral palsy and that is bad. But why do I think that? It's because of childhood, society, growing up, everyone just subtly telling me that disabled people can't be sexy or attractive or loved.

or attractive or loved. And that goes way back and the bottom line is about representation because it makes you think I'm not worthy. Of course. I mean, all psychological issues basically come down to self-esteem and I'm not worthy, I'm not good enough, I'm not loved. But I understand that you had a bit of a lightbulb moment in your relationship with your ex last year around self-love. Tell us about that.

Again, we're back to internalised ableism, but I started dating a woman who I used to work with and we had this lovely time together and we'd talk all day every day and she would send me lovely voice notes and I would always reply on text message and she called me out on it and she said, why don't you ever reply on a voice message? And I said, like it was a matter of fact. I went, well, on my voice, because I sound disabled. Like, you don't want to hear my voice. It's awful and saving you the trouble.

And you can just read my answer. And that goes back to the internalised ableism of thinking. My voice is literally my disability, which equals not sexy, not attractive, not worth love. And she was so honest and so kind. And she said, Rosie, your voice is one of my favourite things about you. I love the tone. I love how everything slows down and it settles me. And she said, it makes me feel safe.

Wow. That is amazing. There's no higher, greater compliment from somebody you love than for them to say, I feel safe with you. Yeah. What a wonderful thing. What a wonderful thing to hear. I want to ask you as well, Rosie, about the fact that as well as being a comedian you're a writer and you worked on the brilliant series sex education where you created a sex scene

between a boy with a disability and a girl without a disability why was that so important for you to represent that? Because I love sex education and it felt so inclusive apart from disability. So when they got a job on it, day one I was like, right, we need to sort this shit out. We need to create this flawed character who happens to have a disability and show them being healthy, sexual and loved. Because I grew up in a world where disabled sex was never seen unless porn. Absolutely. And again, it still feels as though there's not enough representation in the media with people with disabilities having sex,

which again comes back to the charity Enhance the UK, Jenny, and what you guys do in there and the education that you provide. Well, it's interesting. I hung on every word that you were saying about talking about your ex-girlfriend because it's about people hearing other people's experiences that are relatable and trying not to hide away and shy away and actually learning. And there's lots of people that, especially if you're born disabled, you end up being really infantilised, even going through teenagehood

and even going through adulthood. What do you mean? Well, you're treated like a child, you know, because a lot of the time you stay living with your parents, for example, for long, much longer than you would do if you didn't have a disability, maybe a physical disability. Places aren't accessible half the time, you know, uni accommodation and things like that like that it's really difficult to come by so people have to stay with their parents when you go to uni or you go traveling you're out shagging you're out you know doing it it's very very difficult particularly if you've got a physical disability or if you're in a care setting most care homes have child locks on their internet and the answer normally is is because we don't want our staff to watch porn at work.

I might tell me a carer that's got time to do that. You know, and so people can't access half these things, not necessarily porn, but anything to do with like, you know, sex, anything like that. Most people who are in care settings sleep in a single bed. I haven't slept in a single bed since I was a kid. You know, like that instantly infantilizes you so a lot of carers don't know how to and any not just carers doctors pediatricians any you know anyone in that medical setting don't really know how to have

conversations with young people from the get-go young people start masturbating at an early age so we train staff how to get over this fear of having this conversation. A long time ago now, about five years ago, Roxoff came to us and said, we'd really like to make some inclusive sex toys. So we've been working on a range called Quest. And we're really excited about it because actually, I'm almost more excited about the packaging than the toys, because I want it to be accessible. We wanted to make something that somebody could open with their teeth, you know, and then be able to write the training to support the staff for supporting somebody in care to use the sex toys.

That's incredible. Congratulations. Thank you. It feels like it's coming out at the right time because I feel like there's more of an appetite and we're having this conversation now. We wouldn't have necessarily had this conversation a few years ago. So it feels like it's naturally the right time. Talking of naturally the right time, I want to come back to Charlie because they are looking

for concrete advice on when and how to tell their dates about their ADHD. So first, Rosie, should they or should they not write it in their dating profile? or should they not write it in their dating profile? I think they should because when you write it, you take out any shame and you're absolutely right. It is a biggest threat detector. And if they block you because of your neurodiversity, good riddance. I think my anecdote about no one matching with me, that was 12 years ago. where I really believe that a lot more people are open and willing to accept all disabilities.

So, yeah, I wear my CP on my sleeve and I hope Charlie does too. Jenny, what do you think? I'm going to be a little bit more blanket than that because I agree with everything Rose is saying, but I think it's a very personal choice. It's how you're feeling at the time, as I said before. You can take it off if you don't want to keep it on there. Experiment with certain apps.

There are some that are much more open. Let's try and encourage people to disclose more often equally, not to feel shame if you don't want to do that. If you're not ready to do that, then that's okay. Of course. That's okay. But there is a certain along the way, there is a level of responsibility to that other person that you need to be honest.

I was just going to say, actually, on that note, as and when Charlie then goes and has their date, should they give their date the heads up about the fact they don't like eye contact and they don't particularly like hugs either? What would you say? I think that the eye contact and the hugs isn't necessarily the biggest thing because you might not do that anyway you might not fancy someone when you first meet them and I think that might be something that naturally comes and if you start trusting someone and if somebody creates an atmosphere that you think I can disclose and I can tell somebody these things very naturally come out if actually you sit and think I don't really fancy this person

I'm never going to see them why Why put yourself through that trauma anyway? So I think, again, it's a very organic thing. Just trust yourself, trust your gut instinct, but don't be doing it because of shame, doing it because you've got to feel comfortable when it's right for you. This has been absolutely fascinating. And Charlie, I hope that you'll take some of this wisdom and find yourself somebody who loves all of you. Or maybe you're just looking for a dirty fling, in which case, Godspeed. Good luck to you.

Thank you so much, Jenny, for bringing in that dilemma and telling us all about Enhance the UK as well. We'll leave those details in the show notes for listeners to check out later. Now, Rosie, I'm not quite done with you yet because it is time for our quick fire advice round. Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. This first one is from Rhys. Hi, Anna. My friend said something to me a couple of weeks ago that kind of upset and annoyed me and I want to bring it up with him but I don't really know how to open up the conversation without making it seem like an attack or a bigger deal than it is if you've got any advice oh come on Miss Jones what are we saying so your friend your friend has really upset you do you bring it up with them and how do you bring it up with them without without making it sound like it's an attack on them?

Well, I'm a busy lady. I'm no nonsense. If I'm meeting my friend, I don't want to have an awkward evening. So I think I would tell it how it is and I would start the conversation with, right, I love you, but we're going to have an awkward 10 minutes because I feel like I need to get this off my chest, right?

And you hit them with it because if you don't tackle it head on, it'll eat you up. Absolutely. I love that advice. I love you, but we're going to have an awkward 10 minutes here. You see, the other thing I would say as well is that always start with, I feel this. I feel hurt.

I feel upset. Don't try and put the blame on the other person. Say, you've done this, you've tried to, you know, you've made me feel this way. Just own your feelings and calmly say I feel hurt, I feel upset and I'd really like to sort this out. Yeah. Okay, here's the next one. This is from Rasheen. Hi Anna, it can't just be me who doesn't know what to wear when going on a first date. I want to wear something nice, but not so sexy that it gives the wrong impression.

Any advice? Gratefully received. Thank you. Well, I mean, to be fair, Roisin, you're asking the wrong girl here because I do naked attraction. So I'm like, hell, let it all hang out. What would you say, Rosie? I wouldn't go in there thinking what will they like it's more about what you feel confident comfortable and sexy. Absolutely right because at the end of the day, that date is going to go well if Rasheen feels confident in herself. So it's less about how she's looking for that date. It's more about how she feels in herself in those clothes. for joining me today. You are a goddess. You are extraordinary. And I wish you nothing but love and happiness in your career and your life moving forward. And may Mrs Jones be out there for you. Thank you.

I've had such a great time. And thank you again to Jenny Williams and Enhance the UK for all of their support too. As always, I'll be back with another episode of It Can't Just Be Me next week. But if you have your own dilemma around sex, love, divorce, friendship, or anything else, please leave us a voice note at itcantjustbeme.co.uk or you can email itcant just be me at podimo dot com remember nothing is off limits and whatever you're dealing with it really isn't just you from podimo and mags this has been it can't just be me hosted by me anna richardson the producer is alice Homewood with support from Laura Williams. The executive

producer for Mags Creative is James Norman Fyfe. The executive producers for Podimo are Jake Chudnow and Matt White. Don't forget to follow the show or to listen ad-free. Subscribe to Podimo UK on Apple Podcasts. We get it. Life gets busy. Luckily, with Peloton Tread, you can still get the challenging workouts you crave. Only have 10 minutes? Take a quick Peloton workout. Want to go all out? Chase down your goals with 20 to 45-minute Tread workouts. No matter your goals or time, Peloton has everything you need to become everything you want. Find your push. Find your power.

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