It Can't Just Be Me - 31: Why is my Partner so Angry? With Anna Mathur

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hello, it's me, Anna. Now, before we begin, in this episode, we do discuss intrusive thoughts and anxiety. So if anyone is struggling to cope or wants support, please do reach out to your GP. And there's further support also in the show notes. Every week, we sit down as a team and have a chat about what we really want to talk about on our show, what's on our minds. And when I say our minds, I mean just that really, everybody's minds, the things that we all talk about when we're at home. And it seems to me that there's a lot of anger out there right now, because let's be honest, life is bloody difficult. Our country feels broken and divided. We're seeing

Starting point is 00:00:43 personal loss, global loss, climate disaster and raging wars in the Middle East and the Ukraine. So if you're feeling angry, if you're feeling resentful, if you're just feeling anxious and you're wondering if that's normal, then you've come to the right place. Because in today's episode, we'll be tackling all of those feelings with psychotherapist, best-selling author and fellow podcaster, Anna Martha. Welcome to It Can't Just Be Me. Hi Anna. Hey Anna. Hey Anna. Hi Anna.

Starting point is 00:01:13 Hey Anna. Hi Anna. Hi Anna. Hi Anna. It can't just be me who's really struggling with staying faithful. I definitely got menopause brain. I really want children and he doesn't. I had feelings of jealousy.

Starting point is 00:01:26 It's just all around the middle. I feel like a Teletubby. And then I hated myself for feeling that way. If you've got any advice. I would really appreciate any advice. It can't just be me. It can't just be me, right? Anna, welcome back to It Can't Just Be Me. Thank you so much for coming into the studio in person.

Starting point is 00:01:46 We always appreciate it. And tell me, how are you feeling right now? Oh, how am I feeling right now? I am feeling relieved. Post-Christmas, I love a bit of routine. Overwhelmed just by the enormity of life. I've stepped back into social media after taking a break. So I've really kind of starting to re-engage with all of the noise around,

Starting point is 00:02:11 not just the news, but everyone's opinions on the news, everyone's opinions on everything. It's just a lot coming at me to filter through. Rested. We slowed down, which is just quite quite okay I am interested in this so you're saying that you feel rested because you stepped back yes and that was a purposeful thing was it yeah and we were bored and I just think boredom is a dying feeling but like we just need so much more we don't leave much space it's really really, it's really interesting that you mentioned that, actually, because I was listening to a whole discussion about this on the radio the other day about boredom.

Starting point is 00:02:50 And the fact that kids particularly don't know how to be bored because they've always got a screen. And we're not very good at being bored either. Yeah, my kids aren't. But also I'm not. How often do I grab my phone or busy myself when actually I started to see boredom as an absolute privilege because we had a grief in the summer I was absolutely not bored I was hurting I was sad and it really made me realize how much of a privilege boredom is it's it's kind of devoid of drama and trauma you You're just there. And that is a real gift. So I'm

Starting point is 00:03:27 starting to really love, welcome and embrace those kind of mundane, bored pauses in life, because there will be something that will bring some drama or chaos at some point. But in the meantime, boredom. Yeah, I love that. So let's just recap on the three adjectives you feel relieved rested but a key one I think as well overwhelmed let's talk a bit more about that because I'm speaking to a lot of people right now in my personal life in my professional life who feel so angry and frustrated and I think probably overwhelmed at the moment. So it feels like a sort of collective upset and rage. Do you think we're more on edge at the moment? I think we are physically more on edge. We're more full of adrenaline and cortisol. We're

Starting point is 00:04:19 living life at 100 miles an hour. I don't know about you, but sometimes I'm literally tearing around my house like I'm being chased. You know, we are scrolling. And when we're engaging in social media and the digital world, we literally do not know what we're going to get next. It's like a crazy game we're playing with our nervous systems. We could scroll past a cute little cat, whatever floats your boat, and that's a nice feeling. then the next second we're seeing a traumatic story or some imagery and then we have to process that so we literally do not know what we're getting next and our bodies are you know we're kind of living we're very used to living stressed yes some people i'm working with with clients who are sometimes so traumatized by what

Starting point is 00:05:03 they are reading in the news that they cannot then enjoy their day-to-day life. When we're so kind of stressed and traumatised by the secondary trauma of what we're consuming, what can we actually do? How can we actually be active when we're in that really heightened state? We can't because we're in survival mode. I think this is really interesting that perhaps we're, in inverted commas, traumatised as a society or as a culture. I think maybe post-Covid as well. And then on top of that, we're just being flooded with really traumatising images.

Starting point is 00:05:37 The idea that we are collectively traumatised is quite an interesting one. Yeah. And it's like, are we learning to think that this is what care is? And that this is normal. That this is how you care about what's going on in the world, is you read everything and you let it fill you with fear so that you can't actually enjoy and engage in the good things in your life. And you can do both. And I think you can protect yourself and care

Starting point is 00:06:02 without having to totally immerse yourself in it. If we're totally absorbed in it and overwhelmed by it, you might care, but you can't do anything about it. You can't be moved to action. That righteous rage that's stirred up in you is just going to keep you stuck. You can't actually do anything about it. That is fascinating that you just get stuck in an emotion that you can't do anything about. This is a biggie question. Is anger a healthy emotion? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:06:31 Is it? Yeah. Anger is a very active emotion. So this is in its right form. Something triggers it normally. It stirs up a response and it's there to move you into action and in an ideal world we'd feel angry about the things that we should feel angry about and we'd do something about it off the back of it and then the anger would abate so we think of so many of the world's most powerful charities that are doing the biggest stuff in the world that that was probably all fueled by rage a sense of injustice that shouldn't be going on those people should not be going hungry those women should be able to get out of those relationships

Starting point is 00:07:10 and thus began an idea of actually how can we help this and there are so many times as a therapist that I feel overjoyed when a when a client feels Really? Yeah. I'm really, really interested in this. And I know you are as well. I'm interested in the subject of anger. I'm interested in the subject of rage because it seems to me that there's so much shame attached to it. And certainly when you're a child, you're told as a girl as well that you shouldn't be feeling it. You shouldn't be feeling angry and you shouldn't be expressing it. What would you say about that? Do you think there is shame attached to anger? So often, isn't there, we judge ourselves if we're angry, we're bad. Anger is bad. Sadness is bad. Kindness is good. When actually we need to allow ourselves to experience the whole scope of human

Starting point is 00:08:01 emotion, we're just responding to the world around us. And the more able we are to accept these emotions, the more likely we will process them and respond to them in a way that is productive, healthy and helpful. It's when we put all of these rules and regulations and we suppress them and we guilt and shame ourselves, that's when they tend to come out sideways, like the pressure cooker spurting out in really messy, destructive ways. So that's the anger and the rage that we've tended to build up a narrative around. It ties it all with the same brush that it's bad when actually it can be life changing. Let's talk more about that.

Starting point is 00:08:39 What are the different ways that people express their anger? And is there a right way? Because this is a topic of much debate in my house. So first of all, let's just focus on the different ways that people can express or not their anger. Right. So we think of that, you know, that physical manifestation of anger, where it's you want to act on it. It's like you can feel it building inside you. It's like this red mist and you're looking at, you know, in in my kitchen I'll be looking for something to throw and my kids will still remember the day that I threw a plate did you and it was it was all just too much and I just chucked this plate met it was one of these kids plastic plates that apparently shutterproof

Starting point is 00:09:19 shuttered flipping everywhere and they still remember it because it was all this emotion that I had suppressed. It just came out sideways. And do you remember what it was that you were so upset about? No. And I think this is often the challenge is that we so often tend to try and override emotion as if it's somehow, it's an inconvenience. I don't want to feel sad right now. I don't want to feel overwhelmed because then I'll have to address what's overwhelming me and change stuff. I don't want to feel sad because then I'll have to engage in some of the feelings of loss that I don't want to feel. We don't like the uncomfortable stuff. So we push it away and it builds up and it comes out. Exactly. And I'm just going to come back to the different ways that we express it,

Starting point is 00:10:08 because you heard me there go, God, did you? You threw a plate. So already I'm judging going, wow, you threw it because I've never thrown. I don't express my anger. I express my anger outwards with words. But let's look at the other ways that people express anger, which I'm interested in, because I know lots of people who don't express their anger or they express it in a passive aggressive way, which I think that's more toxic than actually breaking

Starting point is 00:10:39 the plastic plate, as it were. So talk to me about that talk to me about the other ways that people do it yeah it's those little remarks it's the sarcasm that is actually yeah it's failing real emotion that we're just trying to get out in a more it feels like it's appropriate because i'm just being sarcastic so if anyone takes offense i can say just chill out just be sarcastic yeah we're trying to protect ourselves from maybe hurting people and taking responsibility for our anger whilst also trying to get it out there. So again, it's not productive. It's anger, but it's not in a healthy way.

Starting point is 00:11:16 And it's a cover-up for other emotions. And this is what anger tends to be. One outward expression of other emotions which are often sadness feeling helpless hopeless fear fear scared yeah yeah grieving wanting to place blame because actually it's easier to be angry at that driver that cut me up than it is to allow myself to feel sad at the loss that I've been through because it feels much more active and I can do something about it and I can you know I can get it out there somehow I can project it onto him rather than deal with the fact that you know I just

Starting point is 00:11:57 feel so sad yeah is that a right way to express anger? So I think identifying the narrative behind the anger. So for example, in a relationship at home, I wrote about this recently, one woman was absolutely livid with her husband because every day he'd leave the coffee cup on top of the washing machine, on top of the dishwasher, wouldn't flip and put it in, right? Angry, every day, angry, building up, just livid at him when he come through the door feeling totally and utterly like you you just expect me to put that you don't care about what I'm doing and we we dug in a little bit more around this anger right that was a response to what was going on that anger is there it's a little flag that pops up and says something here

Starting point is 00:12:42 doesn't feel right to you it's kind of encroaching on your sense of self somehow so we dug a little flag that pops up and says something here doesn't feel right to you. It's kind of encroaching on your sense of self somehow. So we dug a little bit more about the meaning of that mug on the side. And it was that she works from home. She likes a tidy environment when she's working. She has to work in the kitchen. Her partner leaving the mug there is almost saying, I don't care that you like a tidy environment I'm going to make sure that you have to work for it I don't it doesn't matter to me yeah how you like to work doesn't matter to me and once we started recognizing that actually that mug wasn't just a

Starting point is 00:13:19 mug it felt like a story it felt like a statement of her not mattering. And then when she sat down with him and said, look, regarding the mug, this is what matters to me. And this is what it's saying to me when you're saying you don't care. You're saying you don't care about what matters to me. And it takes a couple of seconds. So never did it again you know and it was all about understanding the story behind that that one emotion that often we just shame ourselves or it just comes out in a really messy way that leaves some collateral damage but when we actually give ourselves a moment to think about what is this rage telling me? Where am I feeling vulnerable right now? Am I feeling sad? Am I feeling overwhelmed, stressed? What is it? We've received an email from a listener who's living with a partner who has a temper and she's struggling to live with it. It's anonymous,

Starting point is 00:14:18 so in this instance our producer is reading it out, so let's hear it. Hi Anna, it can't just be me who's trying to cope with a partner who has poor anger management. My husband's anger management is very poor. His temper and mood are affecting me so much and I'm starting to get tired of this situation. I've been trying to understand his outburst by talking to him about what's causing his stress and anger and why he acts like he does, but he doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't really take it seriously and doesn't seem to understand that it actually affects our relationship. I believe he needs to talk to someone about this. If he doesn't want to talk to me, maybe he needs to speak to a professional.

Starting point is 00:15:04 I don't know how to approach this with him and how I can cope with this. I feel like I'm stuck in this situation. If you have any advice, I'd really appreciate it. It's really fascinating to me this because I know so many people who are either in this situation or have been in this situation with one partner who expresses anger and the other one that just can't deal with it. So give me what your initial thoughts are about this particular dilemma.

Starting point is 00:15:39 And it sounds horrible because nobody likes to live with somebody that's angry and expresses it however they express it. It's not nice. So what are your initial thoughts? I think my initial thoughts are, number one, that that person will also acknowledge the wonderful aspects of their partner. You know, they will know the fun bits and the tender parts of him and the kind parts and all of those shared memories and histories and how their lives are probably quite intertwined. So there's a lot there, you know, it's easy to say ideally she would think about the bigger, again, just like with the mug on the sideboard above the

Starting point is 00:16:19 dishwasher, you know, think about the bigger story. What does it say to her that her partner doesn't want to address this anger? It might feel like he doesn't care about the impact that it's having on her, the cost of that dynamic on her life. So that, you know, that often feeds into it as well. It's not just he doesn't want to address it for himself and me. It's also actually I feel really uncared for in the fact that he isn't open to addressing this anger because I'm telling him that it's having an impact on me and my life and it doesn't seem to matter enough. It takes place, this exact setup takes place in so many different contexts. It might be that someone's partner's drinking too much and they're really concerned and it's affecting their lives together but they

Starting point is 00:17:01 won't address it or it's one of these things where you're watching someone live in a way that is harming both them and the health of your relationship. And it can be excruciating when you can see that, but it doesn't seem to be something that they're willing to address. And if one is to draw the line and say, I'm not dealing with this anymore, I will not have you speak to me in this way anymore, then you can remove yourself from that dynamic. However, will that relationship still exist? And often that is the fear is to say, if I draw a line and say that I am not okay with this, I am not okay with the fact that you are not willing to realise how not okay this is. So I'm stepping back. What does that mean for the relationship? So, Anna, I'm conscious of the fact that clearly some people get caught up in abusive relationships,

Starting point is 00:17:58 and we can talk about that in a second. But within a relationship where one person expresses their anger very vociferously the other person can't cope with it or they they don't do their anger that way how much of this might be a dynamic between two people because I'm conscious here that we're just hearing one side of the story yeah and there's always another layer in these circumstances I'm literally just in my head as you're talking is this image of beasts in the in the wild in the desert you know just kind of like one of them's locking horns trying to trying to like fight the other the other's just trying to cower and and run for it and we look at that and we think we just see all that activity and we think that the the one kind of charging is the the bad one the other one's just trying to kind of look after

Starting point is 00:18:45 themselves and stay alive. And actually, there is a whole nother layer, a story there. There's a whole nother, you know, a story of kind of drives and vulnerabilities and survival. That big one is always also just trying to survive. And I think if we can encourage this couple to engage in that sub-story, you know, their vulnerabilities, the fear. You know, when I'm feeling angry and you just kind of turn away from me, I feel like you don't care about what I'm feeling. I feel like it doesn't matter to you. That you're not listening to me.

Starting point is 00:19:18 When you just feel so calm and collected in response to me trying to have a conversation, it makes my anger pick up because I'm feeling like I'm having to shout to get a sense of empathy and see emotion in you. We just do not know. They're wanting something. They're needing something. They're feeling something. What is that? And if we can get to that, which often requires vulnerability and self-insight, which can be hard, and sometimes we don't like what we touch upon when we peel away the anger it's uncomfortable it's messy so with this listener you're saying look actually it's sitting down with him and i know that she's tried because she's saying

Starting point is 00:19:59 he doesn't seem to want to talk to me about it but in the first instance it's what sitting down and saying look can we talk about how we're relating here because when to want to talk to me about it. But in the first instance, it's what sitting down and saying, look, can we talk about how we're relating here? Because when you refuse to talk to me, it hurts and I'm not being heard. And when you get angry and rageful about whatever's going on, it frightens me. Is that the beginning of this? That's really helpful because actually what you're doing there is talking about the issue of talking about the issue. If you can sit down and say, you know what, every time we go to talk about this, it just blows up. So I want to know how can we have this conversation?

Starting point is 00:20:37 What is it about this conversation that is just igniting further drama in our relationship and it just spirals? So it's taking it a layer out and talking about it. And then if one person is refusing to engage, which it sounds as though this husband potentially is, that he's saying, I just don't want to go there for whatever reason, then what are her choices? What are their choices in this yeah so number one I think it's really good to be able to explain why you want to engage in that so that requires you to understand

Starting point is 00:21:13 how that dynamic makes you feel and almost appealing to that caring part of them that hopefully cares how you feel enough to want to address it you know if you if you can go and say you know what this dynamic in our relationship I'm just really down I'm feeling really alone I feel like I miss you I feel like I miss what we had I feel like we've moved away and it's messy and I really want to get back to feeling like we're connecting again and if and if he's refusing to go there, presumably the choice then becomes either go and talk to somebody else about this, please, because you're not respecting our marriage and my feelings or I'm exiting. I can't do this anymore. Is that right? it's couples therapy because sometimes just having someone else there giving voice and just delving that little bit deeper to get to that more kind of that connecting vulnerability where

Starting point is 00:22:11 you're meeting as two people who are actually both hurting in this who actually maybe both miss what was good and both aren't happy because to be rageful and angry, that's not telling us that he's happy either. Do we demonise people that shout or express themselves like that? Yeah, I think it can be scary. Anger is meant to provoke. But I think it's worth reminding ourselves as often what we do in rage is we pull away, we run away from that person. We don't want to be in that presence. When actually, if we are able to identify, and even more powerfully so, if that person is able to identify the fact that often we feel rage because we feel threatened,

Starting point is 00:22:59 underneath it all, we're scared. That's why we're angry. Underneath it all, something is not sitting right. Something is hurting or harming or threatening our values or ourself. And that is where this rage is coming from. So yeah, we demonise it, but often then we're running away from the people that are actually desperate. I'm conscious, obviously, that for some people, when they are living with a partner who is angry and that could either be in this situation where you've got a husband who is you know shouty by the sounds of things or it could be somebody who's also very controlling and withdrawing where do you draw the line between what is anger and healthy within a relationship and And what's abuse?

Starting point is 00:23:45 I think sometimes this is where it's really helpful to have those conversations with friends and other family members outside of it. Because when people are inside that relationship, it can all just become a little bit blurry, especially when there is that love. And there may well be those wonderful good moments between it. So it can just feel quite complicated and a bit blurry and murky. And it is not okay. So I think it's identifying with yourself, what would I deem okay for someone that I care about, someone outside of this relationship, it might be a really close friend, I would not want her husband treating her in that way. You know, often, that can be a really good litmus test

Starting point is 00:24:25 for the times when you know it's like the frog in the pan of boiling water when the when the temperature's been slowly building that actually you don't jump out because it's been so slow to get there that you haven't even realized quite how bad it has got so asking yourself what would I say to a friend who was being talked to yeah like this way what might I want them to do differently that actually the bar is in a different place for myself because it is so complex and complicated so speaking to other people and and allow yourself to hear their shock sometimes you know when you see someone else's shock at something that it's just become normal to you, that can really start

Starting point is 00:25:05 giving that sense that actually, this isn't okay. Another thing that we wanted to talk about today is anxiety and intrusive thoughts in particular. And I know that this is of interest to you. You've mentioned on your website that intrusive thoughts are far more common than we might think. So is this something that you've struggled with personally? Yeah. So intrusive thoughts first came on, besides kind of working with anxiety for years before this, when I had a baby, I was absolutely exhausted. He screamed most of the day and night. And I started having these really disturbing thoughts

Starting point is 00:25:45 of dropping him down the stairs but even more so throwing him down the stairs yes and I didn't talk to anyone about this because I was utterly viscerally horrified you know what does this mean about me what does this mean about my ability to be a mother what does this mean about my love and also presumably you must have been really scared yeah it's kind of oh my god am I going mad yeah yeah absolutely and I started applying in my very tired state which makes it a lot harder to do this my kind of theoretical psychotherapeutic knowledge and I know that intrusive thoughts are just thoughts that pop into our mind right we have them have them all the time. You know, I might have just had one about knocking my coffee cup onto the floor. You know, that's an intrusive thought. It just popped into my head. I didn't ask

Starting point is 00:26:33 for it. It's just there. And I think often when they grab our attention is because they are really conflicting with how we understand ourselves to be or what our values are. Let's hear from a listener who is struggling with intrusive thoughts who would like to remain anonymous. So here goes. Hi Anna, I have a five and a half month old baby and since he was born I've struggled with intrusive thoughts. For example, when I walk with the pram the thought of a car mounting the pavement and hitting us comes to mind. I also have more extreme thoughts, like when I changed the baby from a bassinet pram to sitting up. I worry that now he's more exposed, someone could throw acid in his face. I know this sounds totally crazy, and I don't know why this thought came to my mind. I also now worry

Starting point is 00:27:21 about my baby dying more than I should. I worry he'll stop breathing in his cot at night or in his car seat when I'm driving. My parents recently looked after him overnight and as he had a cold, I couldn't stop worrying about him being very unwell when he stayed over and I wasn't there. I also now think about myself dying and my baby growing up without a mum. I don't know why I think like this, but I would love any advice you have for me, please. Thank you. It feels as though the first thing to say is to give some reassurance here. I mean, she's not alone. That's for sure. And I think when we become parents, we just suddenly alerted even more so or just completely afresh the vulnerability of living and loving. Loving is risky. And I have found myself in the past wishing that I didn't love my kids

Starting point is 00:28:11 because then I wouldn't, I'd protect myself from the risk of bad things happening. And, you know, it's almost like sometimes a protective desire to want to protect yourself from loving and engaging in life and I think yeah bless her and when you're tired and you the hormones are going on which they will be still for her at that point we're we're less armed we it's harder to coach ourselves through those thoughts and think the chances are very low of someone throwing acid in my baby's face but the challenge is is that none of these things are impossible we're not worrying about alien invasions and crazy things that are literally never going to happen and I

Starting point is 00:28:51 think it gets you in touch with that part of you that just wants a grown-up to come put their hands on your shoulders and promise you and look you in the eye and promise you that everything's going to be okay so do you think it's about putting some of these things into perspective, challenging the thoughts? Yeah, definitely. Anxiety definitely over inflates any kind of statistic. You know, it might be 0.005 recurring chance and it feels like a certainty. And it's recognising that we're vulnerable and that's hard. So how can we ground ourselves within that to live with risk is experiencing intrusive thoughts postpartum a common thing very much so but why is it hormonal

Starting point is 00:29:33 or is it as you've said look suddenly you're overwhelmed by the fact that you've got this other thing to take care of yeah all of the above it's all of the above and the sleep you know the lack of sleep and i i notice an uplift in my horrible intrusive thoughts when I'm hormonal and when I'm tired. And we just do. And normally, trauma can really play a part in that. So I lost my sister when I was a child. She died of cancer when she was nearly seven. So therefore, I am so much more likely to have intrusive thoughts around childhood death and dying and cancer right so if my kids have got growing pains and they let my legs hurt I'm like you've got leukemia and I really have to find ways to manage that because the likelihood is low but as we know

Starting point is 00:30:16 these things are impossible and I think sometimes it's thinking how can I mother myself in that kind of nurturing way you know we want reassurance, but we can never give ourselves that full promise, can we? And that's what we want. We want someone to promise. We want certainty and we can't have it in life. So how can we say to ourselves that you're obviously you're feeling scared? This is a big shift. Loving your baby feels like a massive thing to do. It feels risky being out in the world. So if we are experiencing intrusive thoughts, what can we do about it? So I think the first thing is not to go down that road of turning that thought into theatre. And we can grow in practice at being stronger at this. So I often think of imagining myself on a Friday

Starting point is 00:31:04 night or imagine yourself on a Friday night you're sat on the sofa you've we're watching uh traitors at the moment so I've got traitors on chips my fave and then the doorbell goes and I get up and I'm like oh for goodness sakes we've just sat down and it's a man selling mops I don't need a mop but he's very convincing so I invite him in and he's then sat on my sofa eating my chips traitors on pause chatting away about a mop I don't even want thinking how the heck has my whole Friday evening become totally encroached by this mop man you know but there is another choice is that he comes rings the doorbell I go thank you don't need a mark. Good luck, off you go. And off he goes. And I cannot control, we cannot control what thoughts pop into our mind.

Starting point is 00:31:50 We can recognise that they're there. But we can choose. In time, we can get stronger at saying, no, thank you. I'm not going to go down that road. Because as soon as we do, we feel our heart rate increase. We feel our body tense up. Our body literally feels like it's happening. You know, we feel like as we're going through that whole scenario of

Starting point is 00:32:12 someone throwing something in our child's face, our bodies think it's happening. You know, it's evolutionary. We have to respond. It's thinking, I can't control this horrible thought that's popped in again, but I am not going to engage. So you're saying, recognise the thought, acknowledge it and go, no, thank you. I'm not going down that road. Yeah. I think about something else, put something else in that space because they do like to come back. Like when you eat omega-3 fish oil tablets and they just kind of keep repeating on you they do like to come back and I think it's recognizing also that going off down that road in our head it doesn't protect us no matter how much in the time of my sister's between her cancer diagnosis

Starting point is 00:32:57 and her death no matter how many times we played out that loss it didn't make it any easier and I think often it's this kind of con that if we live through it in our minds if we live through it over and over again we're somehow protecting ourselves so that when it happens we go uh-huh i've lived through this therefore it's not going to hurt me as much when actually all we're doing is putting ourselves through heartbreak twice physically and we're taking ourselves away from the the very real present goodness that is there. Anna thank you so much for coming into the studio today to give us your expertise again and for being so honest and frank about everything And thank you at home for listening. I'll be back next week with a new episode of It Can't Just Be Me. In the meantime, if you find yourself with a dilemma and really

Starting point is 00:33:53 need some advice, then please send me a voice note at itcan'tjustbeme.co.uk, or you can email your dilemma to itcan'tjustbeme at podimo.com and if you want more from it can't just be me remember you can find us on instagram tiktok youtube and facebook just search for it can't just be me because whatever you're dealing with it really isn't just you from podimo and mags this has been it can't Just Be Me, hosted by me, Anna Richardson. The producers are Laura Williams and Christy Calloway-Gale. The editor is Kit Milsom. And the executive producers for Podimo are Jake Chudnow and Matt White.

Starting point is 00:34:36 The executive producer for Mags is James Norman Fyfe. Don't forget to follow the show or for early access to episodes and to listen ad-free, subscribe to Podimo UK on Apple Podcasts.

It Can't Just Be Me - 31: Why is my Partner so Angry? With Anna Mathur

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