It Can't Just Be Me - 40: My dad’s secret life? With Jaz Singh

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

The entire nation was gripped by the lies and betrayals in the hit TV show The Traitors, with viewers particularly impressed by Jaz Singh’s (a.k.a Jazatha Christie) ability to sniff out the traitors. Today, Anna has Jazatha Christie himself in the studio to talk about earth-shattering family secrets, to which Jaz is no stranger.When Jaz revealed on The Traitors that his dad has a second family, he was overwhelmed with messages on social media from people going through similar heartbreak over family betrayals.  Together, Jaz and Anna tackle a dilemma from a listener who may be on the verge of a life-altering discovery. He’s unearthed something unexpected about his late dad that could force him to re-evaluate who his dad really was. Along with psychotherapist Fiona Kau, they debate the merits and risks of getting to the truth, bearing the consequences of finding out information you can't “unknow”, and what it means to re-build your life after secrets are unearthed. —Have questions about sex? Divorce? Motherhood? Menopause? Mental health? With no topic off limits, Anna’s here to prove that whatever you’re going through, it’s not just you.If you have a dilemma you’d like unpacked, visit itcantjustbeme.co.uk and record a voice note. Or tell Anna all about it in an email to [e-mail] podcast contains adult themes that may not be suitable for children. Listener caution is advised. Please note that advice given on this podcast is not intended to replace the input of a trained professional. If you’ve been affected by anything raised in this episode and want extra support, we encourage you to reach out to your general practitioner or an accredited professional.From Podimo & Mags Creative Producers: Laura Williams and Christy Callaway-GaleEditor: Kit MilsomTheme music: Kit Milsom Executive Producers for Podimo: Jake Chudnow and Matt WhiteExecutive Producer for Mags: Faith Russell Follow @itcantjustbemepod and @podimo_uk on Instagram and @itcantjustbemepod on TikTok for weekly updates. You can also watch the full episode on Youtube.   Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This year, like millions of other people, I became obsessed with the TV show The Traitors. I was totally gripped by the lies and the deception that people were capable of coming up with. So even though it was just a game, the very real impact on each relationship was utterly fascinating to watch. Today, I'm looking at real-life betrayals a little closer to home. The kind that can tear a family apart and cause irreparable damage. So who better to join me than a man now known to the nation as Jazitha Christie, a.k.a. Jazz Singh from The Traitors. Jazz knows all too well what it's like living in the aftermath of a family secret that shattered his world.

Welcome to It Can't Just Be Me. Hi, Anna. Hey, Anna. Hey, Anna. Hi, Anna. Hey, Anna. Hi, Anna. Hi, Anna.

Hi, Anna. It can't just be me who's really struggling with staying faithful. I definitely got menopause brain. I really want children and he doesn't. I had feelings of jealousy. It's just all around the middle, I feel like a Teletubby. And then I hated myself for feeling that way. If you've got any advice. I would really appreciate any advice. It can't just be me. It can't just be me, right?

Jazz Singh, the hero of the traitors, or should I call you Jazz of the Christie, welcome to It Can't Just Be Me. How are you? Hello, hello, hello. Thank you so much for having me. It's just, it's crazy, but good crazy. I'm just so humbled to even be here, to be honest. So thank you. Do you know, I was rooting for you throughout that series because you were so on the money with Harry and Paul in particular being traitors.

But then everybody started to turn against you so just how stressful is it when you're in that situation and you're like I just I know you know I just know that this isn't right how stressful is it? The words cannot actually describe how intense it gets in there it's just mental i mean when you're in such an experience like that and a game where you just want to get as far as possible it's all about survival you've got to be so thick-skinned because you get prepared before going on to the show you know are you going to take things personally and obviously you go no obviously not no no no and then bang you get hit with it and it it's like, oh my God, this is

real. I am getting personally attacked by everyone in this room. And it can get tough. When it does start to feel like it's becoming personal and you're being attacked, how do you keep it together? I mean, how do you feel? I think it just depends on the type of person you are. for me I was just constantly reminding myself why I'm here and really just appreciate the opportunity that I've been given um you have to be grateful in a situation like that because you know there were I think 80 to 100,000 applications that went in for series two the traitors wow so every time there was a a stumbling block where I felt really wow this is i'm getting

personally attacked here yeah you just got to remind yourself you know what you've been given this chance not many people have you know is it easier to be a traitor or a faithful for me from looking at it it's 100 easier being a traitor i mean i opted and forced to be a traitor because i wanted a to be in control of the game and b i wanted i don't respond well to lies as you can see from the show so it was very much be in control of the game not get lied to and you're not going to sleep every night going i'm gonna be murdered you know you literally just want to get there as far as possible yeah so it's it's much easier being a traitor so every week on it can't just be me i ask my guests to bring their very own it can't just be me dilemma so jazz what's your it can't just be me dilemma

and has it got anything to do with the traitors? You know what? I had a real good think about this one and I'm going to go with it can't just be me who wakes up two minutes before his alarm. Right, well, I can tell you straight away it's not just you that does that and there's a very good psychological reason for it, I reckon, which brings me on to our psychotherapist, Fiona Cow, who's with us today because I reckon you would be able to tell

us why psychologically you wake up just before your alarm goes off Fiona how are you? Hi I'm good thank you thank you for having me. It was great to have you back in but why is it if Jazz is saying it can't just be me that wakes up just before my alarm clock goes off there is a good reason isn't there why that happens? Yes I think I mean we are kind of programmed right we have this inner clock inside of us and I actually often wake up before my alarm as well I was actually telling Jez that I often don't need an alarm because I wake up on my own so yes actually our body gets programmed and I think it's kind of that anxiety you know like before traveling before an important appointment you will always wake up very early I understood that when I was training

to be a hypnotherapist, that it was to do with your subconscious mind, that actually your subconscious is always listening. It's always aware of what's going on. It controls 90% of what we do. So I thought it was to do with the fact that your subconscious mind is listening. It's going, you need to be up at 6am. So I'm going to just wake you up a couple of minutes before that happens, because it's there to sort of protect you and to get you going. Yeah, so it can be both can be your body clock right it's kind of like the rhythm do you go to sleep regularly do you wake up at the same time but then yes definitely your unconscious your subconscious mind will also prepare you so so i've actually conducted my

own research oh really as jazza the christy would um is when i thought this about myself and thought jesus why do i do this and it was like an untied knot that i just needed to get to the bottom of so with this situation i was like right why do i wake up just before my alarm goes off that is mental i've got a book right here matthew walker why we sleep that is so weird because i was looking at that earlier on today thinking of listening to it as an audio book. So go on tell us. I read this before I acknowledged the fact that I do that which is wake up before the alarm goes off and on the train actually down here I actually found the page where it explains why we do it. Why do we do it? Well I'm going to just read it out if you don't mind. Yeah go on. Yeah okay so your brain it seems is still capable of logging time with quite remarkable precision

while asleep like so many other operations occurring within the brain you simply don't have explicit access to this accurate time knowledge during sleep it all flies below the radar of consciousness surfacing only when needed. So much better said than us. Very, very well explained there by, was it Matthew Walker? Matthew Walker. Well, thank you very much for that. I think just basically, it isn't just you that wakes up.

As Matthew Walker so beautifully explained, it's basically everyone. Okay, so today we are going to be discussing the subject of family secrets and what it means to learn a life-shattering truth about someone that you love so jazz i know that this is something that you've got personal experience of you have talked a bit about it so can you just share with our listeners a little bit of your story sure i mean it's uh obviously it's a very difficult um and sensitive matter that obviously we went through as a family but I found out or we found out that my father's got a second family and it's just it's surprising it shocks you you know all these flow of emotions just come in and you just don't know how to tackle such a complicated situation especially if that person is so important to you and it does really add to how difficult and how big this can be um and what was interesting is following following the episode

where I actually share that on the traitors um I just it was incredible to actually resonate with a wider audience out there where I was getting messages after messages after messages on Instagram from all these people that have actually gone through the exact same thing and I thought surely they're fans of the show and surely they just want a way to communicate with me because I'm on the show so I thought potentially are these people making this up and then I started to open and started to read and all the things that were said in these messages were exactly how I felt which made me think these guys aren't lying these are people who have genuinely gone through the same traumatic experience as I have one person mentioned that they didn't even know

that this had happened until their mother's funeral and they met all their other uh all the other step and half brothers and sisters that they never knew that they had um at the funeral one person said that it was the feeling can only be described as a grievance in the family you genuinely feel like there's been a loss in the family even though that person still is in existence um so yeah it was very very difficult so what was it that you discovered that your dad had a whole other family yes so another wife and other children mistress um a son older than me um a daughter younger than me uh he was a grandfather yeah it was just mental that is um I can absolutely see that that is I mean you you've described it as being like a Jenga block yeah that game the Jenga

block with all all the bricks just crashing down what was life like for you in the aftermath and is it that just you found out or was it that your mum and your siblings found out at the same time we we all found out collectively which was a huge shock and you know going through that transitional period of a the penny needs to drop that you need to accept that this is reality to what do we do now and how do we do that to getting onto the other side which fortunately touch what i'm at now is such a long long haul it really is really difficult and it just all depends how you are as a person and how you deal with things it's although it's been the most difficult thing that I've ever had to deal with it certainly made me stronger to be equipped to deal with things what was it like for you personally in the aftermath of this discovery? Going through betrayal at that sort of level

is very, very difficult to experience to the point where you start to question everyone else around you whether are they telling the truth? So in order for you to actually hold and have a relationship with friends, family, you start to second question everything. Are people being authentic? Are people being themselves? Because my dad was everything to me and even he lied at that level. And hence why you saw on the traitors for me to establish trust, for me to identify traits in people that have the ability to offer trust.

You know, I can pick it up quickly. I can smell trust from a mile off. Trust for me is everything. I'm on a search right now to discover trust and justice in everything that I do because I feel as though nothing can be built without trust. nothing can be built without trust. Fiona do you have any clients that you're dealing with at the moment or perhaps in the past who've had to deal with a life-changing family secret? Yeah I mean a lot of my clients are holding secrets so very often with sexual abuse they decide to hold secrets often it's sexual identity as well but for example example, I worked with this one client. They found out as a young adult that they had been put into the care system for some time where they were very little. And then were told as a young adult.

And that was extremely, extremely painful because the siblings knew, the parents knew. They had never been told. It was really, really difficult. So they don't remember having been placed in the care system. Well, that's the thing, you know, then once they found out, suddenly things started to make more sense. You know, memories came up, but they were only a baby. So it's very difficult to make sense of that.

But yeah, that's often what happens once the secret is out. All of a sudden things come out, you know, your memory revealed some things that you didn't know were there. I mean, it is quite extraordinary. I think family secrets can be so utterly devastating. But Jaz, you've spoken about how taboo these kinds of conversations are when we're talking about family betrayal and secrets. You kept your story to yourself for a long time. The first person you told was your wife, Honey honey and we've got her here today hello honey hi oh it's lovely to have you in the studio but you've said jazz that you

were afraid to share the burden with her why i think the cultural aspect is so important because obviously being british sikh i am from a culture where everything family is everything and in terms of being well respected within your Sikh community is everything you know that's how we're sort of brought up that we're as as a Sikh you need to be you need to be trustworthy you need to be loyal the qualities of the the faith in itself is all about treating people with respect is Sikh Sikh key is how I pronounce it in Punjabi is it actually the word means learning so we're always learning on a day on a day-to-day basis so it's always about trying to conduct yourself in the most respectful manner possible so when your father is such a prominent figure within the Manchester Sikh community he was was

he absolutely probably across you know various different cities across the UK we're now positioned as a family that's very respected um and we have a certain reputation that we must maintain so in order for that to be completely wiped away clean and you're now in a complete rut um it's so difficult so so difficult hence why it was a taboo topic where do you share it do you not how do you do that and obviously sharing it with honey took a significant amount of courage um because in order to actually maintain a relationship and in actually to pursue a marriage with another Sikh household which will look potentially down upon a situation that is was very difficult to manage it especially the age that I was so I remember sitting in a car with my missus in the traffic center in the car park and said you

know honey I need to share something with you um and she says yeah I can tell there's something that's just not right and you clearly just tell me what is it and I plucked up the courage to explain the situation to honey and it was almost like bricks coming off my shoulders because you feel you feel as though you're carrying this such heavy load um even though it's nothing to do with you necessarily that you've done this the burden the responsibility is so heavy and you're constantly having just anxiety thinking how am I able to move forwards so telling honey was probably one of the most enlightening moments I've had for me to realize actually I can talk about this I can share this with my closest nearest and dearest and yeah we're in this place

now where I never thought we'd ever be. It's interesting that you've talked about feeling the shame and the embarrassment of what happened within your family. But then you took this huge step of sharing it on national television. How have people reacted to you since sharing that on a show like Traitors? And did you know that you were going to share it i love this question um it's obviously going through betrayal like that it was very much i'm not going to go into traitors day one oh everyone feels sorry for me because i've been through this that was absolutely not the case for me it always boils down to if the opportunity presents itself and it feels natural I will share something that's so personal if the other contestants deserve to know and obviously

when you're in Traders you are developing relationships with those other contestants although you are playing a game and ultimately it was that moment where Charlie sat in the billiards room with me amongst the group and she asks me, Jazz, why are you here? I mean, we've all gotten to know each other a little bit. We've been in here for about a week now, maybe a bit longer. Why are you here? What is the driving factor for you? that that was the right opportunity for me to share such a close story personal story about me to explain to them look I am in the process of rebuilding my family and obviously money is a huge contributing factor to help rebuild a family that's gone through such absolute havoc. So, you know, for me to share that, it felt authentic. It felt right. So it was definitely, looking back, the right moment to share such a story like that. Okay, we're going to take a quick break, but we'll be back very soon to share a listener dilemma on the subject of family secrets. Welcome back to It Can't Just Be Me. I'm here with Jaz Singh, aka Jazza the Christy, and psychotherapist Fiona Cow, discussing the subject of family secrets.

This is from a listener who asked a friend to voice his dilemma for him. Hi, Anna. After my dad passed away recently, I found out that he'd been paying quite a lot of money to our old next door neighbour every month. It was really strange because he wasn't particularly wealthy and this was someone barely in our lives 30 odd years ago. My mum who split up with my dad a while ago has now told me that she's always suspected that he had an affair with their neighbour while they were together but didn't have any evidence. I got really angry and defensive with my mum when she shared this and we had a big fight but the more I think about it the more I reckon that the money means there's more to the story maybe even a love child I guess my question is complicated I thought I had a decent relationship

with my dad and I'm devastated that he's gone to be honest he'd always had such honest values and integrity that the idea of him cheating doesn't really work with the kind of person I thought he was do I look into this and find out what went on or do I leave it alone? Part of me just wants things to be straightforward, to forget about the money and not to taint our relationship. Are some things better off left or do I owe it to my mum to find out what's happened? I feel so conflicted and the grief is still so raw so I don't know what to do. Wow, that is a big story isn't it? So we have colossal grief, we've got the mystery of regular payments to a neighbor and we've got a potential pandora's box of betrayal going on here fiona if

i start with you first what's your initial reaction to this dilemma do you think find out more or just leave well alone i think it's really important for him to find out what means the most for him. I think it's not my place to advise to what's correct for him, but really kind of exploring into, you know, the different alleys and see what's going to bring me more pain and what is maybe going to bring me some benefits. And can I live with a secret or actually do I need to find out now? Because the box has kind of unclicked anyway. You know, it's not just... It's been teased open, hasn't it? It has. It has. Yes.

So then as a therapist, you would be supporting a client by saying, what do you need to do? And if you need to delve deeper into this box, I'm here to support you. Or if you feel that it might be too dangerous, it might be too triggering, then I'll support you in just you feel that it might be too dangerous it might be too triggering then I'll support you in just leaving it where it is exactly because as a therapist it's not my role to advise or to tell clients what to do but to help them kind of uncover and unpack what is best for them and I also hear that the listener said something about you know being worried about the mom but I think he should really put his needs first. And because they're both impacted, right? The mother will be impacted by a potential affair, but he also, he's the child of that

father. And so he has a right to decide for himself, what is it that I need to know? So Jaz, what was your initial feeling when listening to this dilemma? Did you think, oh, mate, just leave it right there? Or did you think as Jaz of Christie, would you go straight in? I mean'm first of all thank you to that person for even sharing such a dilemma i mean i'm feeling it just listening to that and it's very much dependent on the type of person he is is he a person that can go on with life not knowing um and just go down the route of acceptance or is he the person that wants to seek justice for the sake of clarity as Fiona rightly says you know you shouldn't really advise

someone because you we don't see life going through somebody else's lenses and we don't know the type of person that they are everyone reacts and responds differently to everything so for me as you saw on the show I like to get to the truth and clarity for me is absolutely everything psychologically mentally as long as you've got clarity in life you can really move forward confidently knowing that you can be the best version of yourself so I'm not saying to this person find out you know whether it was true whether it was not because it will take a toll it will take effort time energy are you willing to expense that for seeking the clarity that you deserve or are you willing to just accept but I would definitely get to the

bottom of the truth get to the bottom find out and then move on with your life, knowing and accepting that actually I did everything I can to find out the truth. I can identify with some of this just because within a wider family context and without giving too much away, obviously, we had a family situation and I very much wanted to get to the bottom of it. So I wanted to open that Pandora's box. And I did and I ferreted around and it was very, very difficult. And ultimately, we had to leave it where it was. It was quite an interesting situation of going, okay, I now know what's gone on here. But for the sake of everybody, let's just leave it there. Let's just leave it there. It's just leave it there. It's very interesting, isn't it, with sort of family secrets and dilemmas and betrayals and, you know,

omissions and half-truths and all this kind of stuff. It's interesting to see how different people react. Fiona, how does discovering something difficult about a loved one after they've died impact the way that we grieve? Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. I think what could make it extremely difficult is kind of because the person has passed away, that we won't have an opportunity to talk about it with them. So there's also grieving that loss of opportunity. So you have to deal with your own, you're confronted

with a problem on your own. And then I think it can also because you don't only have to then grieve the loss of the person but also the loss of the person that you thought they were so it makes it super complicated and kind of bringing you into that conflict of how do I feel about this person now and knowing this keeping secrets though isn't always black and white. And there are grey areas within families. So people can admit to tell the truth for different reasons. The reason I say that is because I'm thinking, for example, about, you know, when people would say like their grandfather wouldn't talk about the war, or in fact, I was talking to my other half this morning, and he was talking about Holocaust survivors, that they then don't say anything or you know often haven't spoken about the truth of what's happened to them so sometimes the truth can be admitted because of trauma so does that resonate with you fiona at all as a psychotherapist so i think this is all about who owns the story because i mentioned i mentioned before right so some of my clients decide to protect their family from the sexual abuse that they endured and that's then their decision but for

example a family secret that impacts other people like your wife your children I don't think you're the only one who owns that story and who owns that secret and I sometimes you know people make a decision to not share the secret thinking oh I don, you know, people make a decision to not share the secret thinking, oh, I don't want to hurt them, it's going to upset them. But actually, I think it's almost a bit of a selfish decision, because not sharing it is actually protecting themselves, because they probably can't endure, you know, the shame and the guilt and how the views of other people of them might change by finding out about the secret. Fill me in a little bit more about that.

So you're saying that some people omit to tell the truth, protecting themselves, and they think they're protecting other people, when actually, really, they should be sharing that story. They should be sharing that narrative. If the narrative has such a big impact on other people, let's take the example of the client that I brought earlier, right? So the whole family knew that the client had been placed in the care system, but they themselves didn't know. And I think, you know, that's a huge part of their story.

It's lining up the narrative. And then in therapy, we made meaning about it and it actually helped them move on but very often what happens with family secrets and especially children because children are so intuitive they actually know deep down that something is wrong and this is what I meant earlier with when they finally find out they're like oh this suddenly adds up this makes sense to me yes and very often for example in family therapy we would get inverted in inverted commas, difficult children, you know, acting up, being emotional. There was actually nothing wrong with the children. It was that there was a massive family secret and they actually intuitively knew that something was off.

Yes. So sometimes actually the onus is on that person or on that family to speak the truth of what is going on for the sake of other people. I'm a big advocate like Jez for the truth. I think truth can be painful, the truth can hurt, but I don't think it's our right to decide for other people what they can know and what they cannot know. So actually, from what I'm detecting and what you're saying, there's a power dynamic sometimes going on there, presumably, that somebody is saying, I'm hanging on to this quite deliberately. And actually, it's a power thing. Yeah, I think it can be a power thing in some cases. And Jaz, you were nodding there as well when we were talking about, is this a sort of a

bit of a power dynamic that I know something that you don't and I'm never going to tell you? Yeah, totally. It's just so difficult. I mean, when people do things in life, we have to remember no one's perfect. People will make mistakes. We're not designed to be perfect. We are designed to be imperfect and make these mistakes in life. oh, I've done something wrong here. What's the consequences? Which family members are we going to be affecting? And I'm a big believer of the truth will set you free. That's interesting, isn't it?

Because are we saying that getting to the truth of a situation gives us the closure more often than not that we're seeking? Is that what you're saying, Jaz? Totally, 100%. Would you go with that, Fiona? I would agree, but I think you also, because it's Pandora's box, you also have to be willing to accept that there might be things that you didn't want to know. So it might give you closure, but at what cost?

Exactly. Exactly. Okay. How do these kinds of family secrets impact a family generationally? Do you know what I mean by that? So what's the ripple effect of this secrets being passed down from, you know, grandparent to parent to child? I think it's so fascinating because we were speaking about the unconscious before, right? And sometimes these secrets and the feeling that something is odd can be passed on to the next generation. And then again, as I said, very often this ends up in one of the family member acting up, in inverted commas. Very often we have this with schizophrenia as well. Very often there's actually a big family secret.

Yeah, there's a whole contraversion around schizophrenia. But my view or my experience often with schizophrenia is that the whole family was telling different stories and telling each other different narratives and that can often confuse one person. And if they carry that secret, because sometimes it can end up going into this, you know, not believing the truth. You were saying this, Jazz, earlier that you kind of now have this notion of you can

generally trust people, but actually deep down, better safe than sorry, you know. And now imagine you're a child growing up in a family where there's constantly different narratives. So of course, it's going to have an impact on you. Yeah. How interesting. And what you were saying before, that children are very, very intuitive. They can pick up on what's going on with their parents or their grandparents that something isn't quite right. So Jaz, with your experience, looking back, are there any signs now that you think,

do you know, actually, weirdly, that didn't make sense. I knew there was something a bit odd. Well, not really. Oh, really? One billion percent. Yeah, it's so interesting that you said that because it just resonated with me because I just thought, Jesus, that's literally what happened.

You know, I think as children, we are so intuitive. They are intuitive because they can just pick up things. And when I was younger, it was very much is is that genuine you know he would make the odd jokes and you know certain certain things that would just stick um i just remember writing birthday cards and i've not told anyone this um that i would write happy father's day dad love from your only son jazz and when i'm looking back i'm thinking why would i write that i must have been jazza the christian that age um to have such level of intuition um it's scary it's so scary what we're capable of at such a young age and then how emotionally intelligent we can be without realising.

And, Geri, I suppose now going through such an experience like that, that's so traumatic, it's up to me, I feel, it's my responsibility to set the precedent with the new generation. You know, we're luckily meeting such an amazing individual like my wife, Honey. It's up to us to instill trust in our kids one day when we have them and to ensure that we make sure and set that precedent because ultimately,

that's how I feel relationships should be built, on trust. And it's something that we do take for granted on a daily basis because it's so busy, doing everything we can at 100 miles per hour so ultimately this dilemma is incredibly painful for our listener and he doesn't know whether he should go and poke the bear or leave it alone so to both of you what would be your one piece of advice for our listener jazz if i ask you first i think the first thing would probably to maybe surround himself with close people and get their advice and would be sort of the first port of call because surrounding yourself with the right people i feel as though can be so advantageous for you in terms of providing you with the insight that you will need to make such

an informed decision that you will have to bear the consequences if you go down and open Pandora's box. So first of all, is to surround yourself with the right people, get their take, ask for their opinion and allow them to help alleviate the stress and the burden that you're carrying then probably make a decision whether you want to just accept and are happy knowing that was your father and that was it or take the alternative route and seek the truth for your own clarity for your own mindset and be able to move on in life knowing at least you tried your best to find out and determine the truth because clarity for me psychologically is everything. And Fiona, as a woman and also as a psychotherapist, would you say the same thing?

What would your advice be? I would agree with you. And I would add on, try and take some of the urgency away. Because I think very often when kind of these news hit, it can put you into survival mode, right? And you feel threatened. And you're not thinking clearly because you're so much in your response. And I think, you know, there's time, maybe because you're grieving at the moment, opening Pandora's box is not the right time. It doesn't mean you will never do it. But really take your time to process this and then surround yourself with people, surround yourself with support. Make sure you will have help when you decide whatever you decide to do. And then, as I said before, put your own needs first.

You're not responsible for other people's needs. It's so hard to remember that, isn't it? Because I think often as children, ultimately, we do feel that we're responsible, especially for our parents, weirdly. Did you feel that, Jazz? Do you know what I mean when I say that? 100%. You do. You just feel it's your responsibility.

It's your baggage. You've got to fix it. Yeah, you've got to fix it. And if you don't, who else will? So, yeah, it's just filling in those gaps, isn't it? And culturally as well, right? That belief of family always first. What comes up from the family stays within the family.

There's so many beliefs around this. And I think this is really difficult about the shame that we might be confronted with when the secret actually gets uncovered. So you think look after yourself first? Yes, always, especially for adults, of course, right? If you have children, that's a different story. But if you're an adult, you're not responsible for other adults' feelings and emotions. That's very interesting.

I suppose it's sort of similar to happiness as well. You know, when you're trying to seek happiness, I think I'm a big believer that when you're in a relationship, it's very dangerous territory when people rely on each other to make each other happy happiness should be coming from yourself you can only control the controllables you can only control yourself so ensure that you can be content with who you are as a person and if you're happy content psychologically strong you can share that with the people that are around you

who you love and cherish. So it's very similar for you as though if you're in control of the happiness, you're also in control of seeking the truth and what you do with the truth is entirely up to you. Jazz, our very own Faithful and the true hero of the Traitors. Thank you so much for coming into the studio today to share your story.

I know that everything you've said will have helped our listener to feel a bit less alone with what he's going through. So thank you very much indeed for being so open and so honest with something that for you has been very, very painful. So I really do appreciate that. No, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed it. It's been absolutely amazing. Thank you. And of course, a massive thank you to Fiona Cowell, as always, for sharing your expertise. It's been a pleasure. I'll be back

next week with a new episode of It Can't Just Be Me. So please keep sending us your voice notes. You can get in touch at itcanantjustbeme.co.uk or you can email me at itcantjustbeme at podimo.com. And if you want to see more of the show, of course you do, then remember you can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and Facebook. Just search for It Can't Just Be Me because whatever you're dealing with, really, it isn't just you. From Podimo and Mags, this has been It Can't Just Be Me, hosted by me, Anna Richardson. The producers are Laura Williams and Christy Calloway-Gale. The editor is Kit Milson. The executive producers for Podimo are Jake Chudnow and Matt White. The executive producer for Mags is Faith Russell.

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