It Can't Just Be Me - Does Therapy Really Work? with Katie Thistleton

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

In this episode of It Can’t Just Be Me, Anna Richardson sits down with Radio and TV Presenter Katie Thistleton for an honest discussion about mental health. Katie opens up about her personal battles and how she overcame struggling in the workplace. They discuss how her brave decision to seek treatment and begin therapy not only helped her manage her depression but also sparked a complete transformation in how she lives her life. Katie speaks openly to encourage listeners to take whatever steps they need in order to prioritise their personal growth, well being and build resilience.If you are struggling you can find some useful links for help and advice here: https://audioalways.lnk.to/ItcantjustbemeIGIn future episodes, Anna will be answering YOUR dilemmas! If you have an 'It Can't Just Be Me' you would like discussed then get in touch with Anna by emailing [e-mail] Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Anna Richardson and welcome to It Can't Just Be Me. If you've listened before, hello, and if you're joining me for the very first time, it's great to have you here. This is the podcast that helps you realise you're not the only one. It's a safe space where nothing is off limits as we try to help you understand that whatever you might be going through, it's really not just you. So each week I'm joined by a different celebrity guest who will talk through the challenges and hurdles they faced in their own lives in order to help you with yours. I want to know about it all. The weird, the wonderful, the crazy, because these conversations are nothing if not open and honest. So let's get started. Now back in the day, if somebody mentioned their therapy, then I'd imagine an American TV show with

a person lying down on a sofa talking about their feelings. And it just seemed so alien and so completely un-British. Which is why in this week's episode, I wanted to talk to somebody who discusses their mental health openly. And alongside their TV work and a daily radio show, that person is also training to be a counsellor. It's BBC Radio 1's very own Katie Thistleton. Welcome to It Can't Just Be Me. How are you? I am so happy to be here, Anna. It's an absolute honour to be with you. It's lovely to see you.

Lovely to see you too. And how are you feeling about that microphone right in your face? All right, I guess. I'm more worried about camera angles. That's what upsets me. Don't get me started on the camera. I came into the studio. This is the first time we've worked in here. First thing I said was that camera's going higher. Yeah.

Oh that's good. See I think I need to be a little bit more demanding about that sort of stuff. It's got to be higher. When I worked in kids telly some of the lighting guys used to tell me about how like Cilla Black could have like a certain film like a pink film that would go over the light and I used to think God I can't wait until I'm at a stage in my career when I can demand that sort of stuff, like a filter. Do you know, Cilla, because when I first started in telly, I used to hear those rumors about Cilla and the demands of the dressing room. So this is obviously still very much there, isn't it?

That Cilla's demands and the pink filter. It was always that. Or people used to tell you about how JLo would like come for an interview on Graham Norton or something. And she demanded she would only sit on white. So everything, the sofas, the car, everything was white. And have white kittens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bag of kittens.

Or maybe not a bag. Don't put kittens in a bag. Yeah. That's what she wanted. It's just folklore, this stuff, isn't it? People love to believe it. You love to believe it. It's 100% true.

It's all true. Now, listen, we are going to be talking quite a lot about therapy today because I know that you're very open about your mental health and about therapy and about your journey. But take me back to the very, very beginning of your life, because when did you realize that you were struggling a bit? So I think the first time I properly realized it was when i was 17 and i just got i was working i had a couple of jobs i was at college and i had a job at argos um which was good fun and i also i could talk about argos all day and i often do on the radio did you nick

stuff uh no but people did and it was very exciting when that happened i probably went home with a few of those blue pens every now and again you know the. The odd mattress. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The odd LCD TV screen. And I also worked in a data entry job at the NHS because my mum worked at the NHS. So in the IT department. And it was a really boring, just inputting numbers job. And I'd be sat there and I'd be going. And you'll notice I do this. I'll do this today because I do it all the time.

I'll be going and taking deep breaths like that all the time. And I used to think, there's something wrong with me. I can't breathe. And I went to the doctors and they printed me off on a little thing like printed really slowly this sheet and handed it to me and it said panic disorder and he said it's anxiety you're having panic attacks and I always thought a panic attack was like an attack like you were like it was like a heart attack and it'd be really obvious you were having it I didn't realize that you could be slowly having panic attacks throughout the day and that it would manifest in all these different ways sweating stomach cramps you know all these things that we now know are anxiety and then when I got that diagnosis I was

like I've had that my whole life when I was a little baby in a pram when I was like a toddler my mum would be like you've got little sweaty hands and and she and this breathing problem I'd had intermittently throughout my whole childhood and teen years. And my mum would take me to the doctors and they'd done an asthma test and they'd gone, she's fine. My mum was like, oh, it must be food colouring, stop me having Smarties, no kid wants that. And then all of a sudden I was like, that was anxiety,

but I've had it my whole life. And I knew I'd always been a worried kid, but I didn't realise these physical symptoms were that. That is really interesting. So you traced it back to, I was always a worried kid thinking about it I was a worried child yeah I mean that's extraordinary to me and can you think can you remember what it was that you were anxious about as a kid oh god just everything it's horrible isn't it just everything I had the weight of the world on my shoulders I would worry about my parents

getting ill worry about me getting ill worry about everything anything I saw on tv anything in the news you know I was just filled with fear so so then you must have traced that back in therapy to what the root cause of that was about have you ever got to the root cause I don't think I've ever got to the root cause of it it could be a million things couldn't it and this is what I find really fascinating that we'll we may never really know you know there might be a childhood trauma that you don't even remember yeah and also i think they can be so minuscule traumas it could literally be someone saying something to you in the playground at school or something you've seen on tv it can be such a little insignificant thing that your parents won't remember you won't remember no one had any control over either

um and you know we'll just we'll never necessarily know but then i suppose it's how you deal with it because let's face it life is just a series of of traumas isn't it what some what one person would find ordinary and normal life another person finds traumatic yeah so really it's just a sort of selection of little little traumas that we're having to deal with so for you you just remember the fact that i was an anxious kid. So there you are at 17, breathing heavily, doing your data input. Yeah. I mean, maybe it was just numbers, in fairness. Maths.

I do hate maths. I do hate numbers. Me too. That makes me really anxious. I just completely shut down. I'm just, I have no interest. That's it. It's a refusal, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a blank refusal to do numbers. But you realise that, okay, I've been to the doctor. He's now saying I've got panic disorder. So what happened then? So nothing really. I don't think I ever really sort of sought any help for it. I think knowing that my lungs weren't collapsing

was kind of enough to ease the anxiety for a little bit then. So then I sort of just carried on, didn't ever do anything about it. Always been a worrier, always been a bit of a workaholic as well. So funny, I cleared out a load of stuff recently um to move house and I found a letter that my grandma had kept and this had been passed on to me when she died and then I was 11 years old because she's you know how old people would write on things so she'd written on the envelope Katie brought this round aged 11 and a half anyway on this letter I'd written I'd said hi grandma sorry I've not been around for a while I've been really really busy. And I had this epiphany. Yeah. And we were laughing.

Me and my husband were laughing our heads off. But it was also this epiphany of, oh, my God, I've always been like this. Like I always wanted to be a journalist. I always wanted to be a writer. So when I was that age, I was making a magazine for all the neighbors. Right. What a little geek. So I'd like given myself work for as long as I remember. I'd given myself a job and I just carried on sort of like that and then obviously wanted to get into being a journalist didn't want to be on telly or on the radio but wanted to kind of be behind the scenes you know you know you know what that's like how competitive that can be you all you're told is it's so competitive you'll never

get a job at the BBC and eventually sort of got into that job and I was working behind the scenes and I was asked to go and audition to be a kids TV presenter at CBBC. Which is incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nobody ever gets asked to audition for anything. No, crazy. Having said that, I was. But normally nobody does, do they? No, because I'd never expressed an interest in doing that. I think I probably was quite bubbly around the office and I cared about the content and stuff. And they had new diversity at the time. They didn't even have a woman. So it was like six.

Let alone a northern one. Exactly. So it was just like six white men. I remember going into the studio to shadow them and I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, they really do need to diversify a little bit. And so that was the first step of it. So I went in and started doing that job. And it was then that I think my mental health really um took a battering and it was only sort of a year or so into doing the tv

job that I got I sort of went from anxiety to depression and I got really depressed and that's when I first went on antidepressants and that was when I had to start seeking counseling and therapy that was the first time I well hang on because I mean again I'm going to drill down into all of this yeah yeah so how old were you at this point I must have been 24 so you were working in production yeah basically got a lucky break as why don't you try out for this Katie you know your face fits you're a woman yeah and you're northern we need to diversify yeah you could do the job brilliantly well but then you tipped over from that sort of high state of anxiety into then depression so what was it about doing that job that then made you tip over do you think I think I mean there was a lot you know we spoke about this a little bit before before when we um when

we were just chatting before the episode but just such a vulnerable position to be in to all of a sudden I'd never even that right kids can't believe this now i go into schools and talk and they can't believe it i'd never looked down a camera and spoken into it before because you just didn't do that then now everyone facetimes everybody just does stupid little videos for social media everyone's at least facetime somebody i'd never looked down a camera before and spoken into it and all of a sudden you know i did drama at gcse but other that, all of a sudden I'm in wigs, I'm doing accents, I'm having to, and all these people are watching me

and oh, it just, I found it really vulnerable. And I think I went through the whole thing like a rabbit in the headlights in a sort of state of trauma, basically, just cracking on with it, thinking, well, this is brilliant. God, people kill for this job. I better just carry on with it.

But you see, I still think, and this is a whole different topic, but I still think that that's very much the case yeah in our industry that even we talk a good game about things are changing I don't think they are or certainly not enough and I think there's still that attitude of don't make a fuss there's somebody else that would want this job oh you're going to get a bad rep you're being difficult all of those things rather than actually just responding to what is somebody's distress yeah or what is it that they need from you in order to be able to do their job well and to

function well and to be happy yeah so I still think we've got a lot of that going on in our industry and there's something uniquely vulnerable as you say about being in inverted commas talent isn't there yeah that when you're the face of the voice of something I think a lot of times people don't appreciate that you are exposed and you're exposing yourself so I'm interested in the fact that maybe with that exposure you've then owned it and gone okay well if I'm going to be put in this really vulnerable position I'm now going to talk about how I really feel yeah is that what kind of happened to you in the end basically so I was kind of you get approached by a lot of charities as you know you will on kids tv you get approached by quite a lot of children's charities that want to work with you and one of

my bosses said at the time look you're not going to be able to do them all and so what's the subject you really care about and I was like okay mental health you know because I'd suffered myself lots of family members who have and so I got involved with a couple of mental health children's mental health charities and one of them young minds asked me to sort of write a blog and that was the first time I kind of wrote down like oh I've suffered anxiety and depression and I'm on antidepressants and and there was this sense of relief when I did that and I sort of posted on my social media and and I'll tell you what the sense of relief was that I didn't the hardest thing when you're struggling with your mental health is going into work every day or going into a social situation

and acting like you're all right like it's so exhausting isn't it I remember at CBBC I remember being in the makeup chair one day like this you know makeup artists doing my eyeliner and one of our producers who was brilliant and such a bubbly person came in and was like hi Katie and I went I just went hi yeah you're right and he went you all right are you well is everything okay because I'd not been like I'd not been like jazz hands and be like hi how are you and really over the top and I thought god you can't even just be a bit flat for a minute in this business especially in kids telly you know um so I would go and hide in the toilets for like five I'd be like I need a wee and I just sort of go over a little cry in the toilets and I just needed a minute to not be spoken to because also when you're the presenter

you're constantly spoken to or you know you're constantly on you you feel like you're responsible for everyone else's energy yeah if you are down the team are like oh they're being a bit difficult you know so what's wrong with katie yeah yeah you're on you can't hide you get you know i'd had office jobs before you can go in and hide in the job a little bit you can't do that. So all of a sudden when I'd spoken about it, I was like, oh my God, I don't feel like I need to hide anymore. And I was, at the time I was going on antidepressants and often things get worse before they get better on it.

And I was like coming into work like this, trembling and having all these side effects. And I grabbed one of my producers and I took her into that stream and I said, just to let you know, because at the time I thought I'm going to lose my job here because I look like I don't want to be here and and that's the fear isn't it of not being able to say I'm struggling a bit I love my job but I am struggling I just need some support and I just

need you to hold my hand while I'm going through this yeah exactly and so many people have probably and I've probably judged so many people and we all probably have of like oh they couldn't care less about this job they don't want to be here they probably had a lot going on that you don't know about yeah and so I thought I need to go and tell my boss and a producer look if I'm seeming a bit flat things are going to get better but so I went into a little another room with her I said I'm on antidepressants and so I'm if I'm being a bit weird and she went oh which ones are you on and I was like oh it's teleprompter she was like oh yeah I've been on them yeah and I was like oh right great and then I went and spoke to my boss and he was really great about it and it just was like oh I had a new boss at the time then who was absolutely brilliant and

I was like oh thank god like I don't have to hide and yeah yeah and I thought okay well now if I seem a bit down people might be like all right she's having a down day and it was like you could be honest. When I was going to ask you what did you find helpful because what you've described is I realized that I was struggling when I was 17 and I was diagnosed with panic disorder and anxiety disorder, basically got a great break in media, but I'm still struggling with anxiety. I'm then having to perform and be on all the time and be okay. So what helped you then? You've mentioned antidepressants. What else? Anything else? Or really, was that your first line?

Yeah, the antidepressants were my first line. I mean, it could be a whole other episode, the antidepressants thing, because... Well, I mean, I've been on often for years, so... Yeah, have you? Yeah, and I mean, you tell me, because actually, I think they saved my life, and I'm a big fan I agree I agree and the problem is now I feel like I can't get off them I tried to come off them last year and I really really struggled and so now I've told myself okay you might be on them for life um the coming off was just unbelievable so there's a part of me that's like oh do I wish I'd never gone on them but actually I would have taken anything at the time that's the thing isn't it yeah I was in such a bad way that you know I would have taken anything at the time. That's the thing, isn't it? Yeah. I was in such a bad way that, you know,

I would have taken anything that doctor had given me. You've got to weigh it up. Yeah. The benefits, sound stripping, you know, the negatives. And in your case, by the sounds of things, certainly. And I understand that desperation of, I would have taken anything just to feel better. Yeah.

So I completely get that. I completely get that. I mean, titrating often can be really difficult oh yeah it was I've literally never experienced anything like yeah yeah it was absolutely horrific um so yeah the the antidepressants really I kind of you know got on them and just cracked on and I had a little bit of therapy what the way I describe it is I had a few different types of counseling I kept giving up on it too soon and I now know I was giving up on it after like two or three sessions and I should have carried on that's interesting

why because I was just like it's not working I feel so drained after a session and now I know that you can you should probably feel trained after a session well you're doing the work yeah you're doing the work exactly your brain's doing the work and what the way I describe it is I was sort of underground and I needed the antidepressant. And I'm in these therapy sessions and they're teaching me all these tools and techniques and CBT. And I'm thinking, yeah, yeah, I know all that. I know I should think positively. I know I shouldn't do that.

But I was so low down underground that I couldn't do it. And the antidepressant sort of picked me up and put me on ground level. And then I could do the lifestyle changes and all the rest of it. So that's what I felt like I needed. In retrospect, I maybe should have given the therapy a bit of a longer go. And I have since done it for much longer periods of time, you know. And did you find it helpful? Yeah. Oh, now I'm the most pro-therapy person in the world.

And I think everybody should have therapy, whether they need it or not. It's like it should be mandatory. I agree. Yeah. And now I've trained as a counsellor because... I wanted to ask you about this. So are you in training as a counsellor or you have now completed your Level 4? I've completed my Level 4, yeah. So I did that.

I've completed it in December last year. Congratulations. Thank you. So I love... I've got so much to talk to you about all of this. Because you're all trained in hypnotherapy, is it? Yeah, so I'm qualified in cognitive hypnotherapy. I'm doing further training in RTT,

which is another form of hypnotherapy. Do you not worry sometimes that you're giving the wrong advice oh yeah yeah absolutely I'm very careful to you know I would never I mean I've hated it when I've seen it on tv programs we've seen an expert go I just break up with him or whatever like no so that's the thing isn't it is yeah we're qualified to give our opinion but other than that what we're doing in counseling and hypnotherapy is you're listening you're listening to somebody's story and you're trying to help them find their solution and it's an art form and and and it's given me so much faith in therapy because i would i'd have

like four sessions with a client and i think oh we're just not getting anywhere i really help them and then something would just click you know so you've got to you've got to keep at it and i know now that i didn't respect it enough and you know i am just always flying the flag for therapy now but it does get a bad rep like people are more likely to tweet about a bad experience they've had with a therapist than a good and i hate it when i see therapy getting a bad rep in tv oh it drives me mad every time a therapist is on a tv show or you know like a fictional tv show or a film or something it's just awful like afterlife that therapist and after i love afterlife i think it's one of the best programs ever made but those therapy scenes i was like this is not doing good i know me and

my other half are watching the new on apple tv the new presumed innocent oh okay with jake gyllenhaal a brilliant series but there's a there's a therapist in that and my other half's trained to be a psychotherapist at the moment and so the pair of us were sitting there going a therapist would never do that yeah she'd never sit like that she'd never ask that question so i know i know exactly like the soprano it's like the most famous example isn't it and it's like it's it's a caricature of like what a therapist is of like someone lay on the couch and yeah i get so frustrated with it because i'm like don't put people off therapy it It's not like that. So before we move on, what have you learned about yourself through your counselling training? Because as you know, you've got to do all that self-reflection.

Certainly for training to be a psychotherapist, you have to have mandatory psychotherapy. What have you learned about yourself? I think the main thing I learned through that, the whole thing is just who I am and to just be myself and that's enough. And the main thing I learned through that, the whole thing is just who I am and to just be myself. And that's enough. I used to be this crazy person that had lists on lists of things I wanted to achieve, like a bucket list, like the size of anything. I'm going to do a marathon. Right. And it was looking back. So there was this funny period of time when just before I basically had a bit of a depressive breakdown working at kids TV. And one of my producers said to me, what are doing this afternoon Katie because I was on the morning shift and so I've got a tennis lesson um and a piano lesson and then I think I'm going to make some

cakes tonight and she was like why have you got the hobbies of a nine-year-old girl and I was like oh yeah and it was because I was trying to find my thing in life I was like what's my purpose and as a presenter as well you were always being asked like what's your niche what's your niece what's your niche and I was like do I have to have a niche is it not good can i not just be a good presenter and i was like trying to find myself and i was like well some people talk about sport is the thing they live for music is the thing they live for i was doing all this shit i didn't care i couldn't care less i don't want to play the piano really i'm not bothered i can't read music i have no interest in tennis i don't want to run a marathon i don't want to do any of that stuff and i think doing the

counseling qualification having therapy myself made me realize it's just enough to be interested in what I'm interested in. And the fact that you've trained as a counsellor, I've done my hypnotherapy, we're both presenters as well. It's about connection. And so what's always driven me is the desire to want to connect with other people. I am genuinely interested in other people. I was brought up in a vicarage where it was, you know, open doors, people walking in and out of our house all day long. And I was just really curious as a child about, well, who are you? And why are you here? Why have you come to see my dad? Well, what's your story?

And that's what's driven me in journalism. So it must be the same for you. That's exactly it. And I think I didn't think that was enough, you know? And then I didn't think that was enough. I thought I had to have some really special thing that I was interested in, some kind of hobby or interest. And I was like, I'm interested in people.

But do you think that's because our job, in a sense, is not valued? Yeah, yeah. I think maybe because you think that's because our job, in a sense, is not valued? Yeah, yeah. I think maybe because you're told as well, like, you know, you should be, you should have this real thing going for you. And then one day I was like, actually, I think it's enough that I hang out with my mates and I go home and I watch Kardashians and I'm interested in celebrity gossip. And I had an epiphany that all that stuff is because I'm interested in people. I love watching dramas.

I love watching documentaries. I love watching reality TV. I'm fascinated by people and actually I realize now you know when I think that's who I was in school I never shut up talking I was really studious but I would get told off for talking all the time and when I look back I wasn't naughty I was just desperate to tell stories and get gossip and hear from my friends and ask them questions so I'd go in school and I'd be like I read this in a magazine or saw this on the telly or have you heard about Chloe down the road or and and that's what being a presenter is like it's it's gathering that information and then passing it on well it's curiosity isn't it and the need to connect yeah yeah and I'm just fascinated in

people I just want to know and that's why both presenting and counselling is so I just want to know what whether it's your life trauma or what you're having for your tea you know I just want to know those things I totally get that I completely get that so you've learned from your training that actually it's okay to be me I'm enough yeah I'm enough okay let's take a quick break here but don't go anywhere because in a moment I'm going to ask Katie to pick a question from my box of truth now there's only one rule and that's she must answer, and it must be honest. Welcome back to It Can't Just Be Me. I'm here with radio one presenter katie thistleton now katie you

and i have been properly gassing about therapy and about counseling thank you so much for being with me today genuinely thank you so much for making the time it has been an absolute pleasure i literally could talk to you all day honestly when they got in touch with me and said, do you want to do Anna Richardson's podcast and just talk about therapy? I was like, I literally can't think of anything better. Yes, I do. I'll do that any day of the week. Next time I'll get the wine out.

Yes, please. Now, before I let you go, I am just completely obsessed with the fact that most of us have lost the art of conversation. Okay. So we have to use a starter pack of conversation cards to try and get the conversation flowing. You and I do not have this problem. However, just take this pack here.

Okay. Shuffle through, pick one out. The rule here, Katie, is whatever you pick, I want an honest answer from you. This is exciting. I like this. Okay. I'm going to go for the middle.

I imagine everyone always goes for the middle, don't they? What's it say? Are you more attracted to a nomadic or settled life what a great question oh and it's so relevant to what we were talking about so relevant 110 settled i care not for exploring i want to be in my living room i love being at home i'm an indoor girl well that makes complete sense to me because you were anxious as a child and because you're an anxious person, it makes sense that you want safety

and you want things to be settled. So I totally get that. I could have answered that for you. You want a settled life. I get it. Me too. Actually, the idea of sort of like being a nomad and traveling all over the world.

No. Absolutely not. I mean, I love a holiday. I love to travel. I love exploring different cultures. I'm terrified of flying though. Me too. does it are you oh god and the hypnotherapy have you not had them there yes i have i mean i know you know it's like heal thyself all the rest yeah well i've got to get to the bottom of of what i think i know what it's all about

so anyway i think it's about i'll give you a couple of tips actually off mic um but yeah yeah i love being in the house i just want to be in the house watching tell you my husband i want a blanket on me i yeah when you know when you do sort of hypnotherapy and they say like go to your happy place it's a living room and i'm in my mom's living room on my sister's living room on my living room and i'm on the sofa and that's great and that's okay that's that's all right i think so just want to be in why would you want to to go to Ibiza when you've got burnage? Exactly. Oh, it'll be great.

After Ibiza, when I get back on my sofa with the Chinese takeaway, I'll be very happy. That's it for today, but I'll be back next week with a brand new episode of It Can't Just Be Me. But in the meantime, I also want to hear from you. So please, if there's something you want to talk about, whether it's big or small, funny or serious, get in touch with us.

You can email or send us a voice note to hello at itcan'tjustbeme.co.uk. And if you want to see more of the show, remember you can find us on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook. Just search for It Can't Just Be Me because whatever you're dealing with, it really, really isn't just you.