It Can't Just Be Me - It's Not Just You: Navigating On/Off Relationships

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

This week Anna is joined by clinical psychologist Dr Hazel Harrison to discuss a listener's experience of her on/off relationship which she's starting to realise is unhealthy. Anna and Dr Hazel discuss the potential impact of this kind of relationship, how our attachment styles can affect how we interact with loved ones, and offer some gentle advice for navigating tricky situations like this.If you have a dilemma or situation you'd like discussed, reach out to Anna by emailing [e-mail] or DM her on Instagram @itcantjustbemepodNothing is off limits, we’re open to it all, from your mental health, to dating, to your sex life to addiction…all of the challenges and hurdles that life throws at you - It's Not Just You is a place for you to find some practical advice and support. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Select games only. Guarantee void if platform or game outages occur. Guarantee requires played by at least one customer until jackpot is awarded or 11 p.m. Eastern. Research and supply. See full terms at canada.casino.fando.com. Please play responsibly. ["The Daily Show"] ["The Daily Show"] Hello, I'm Anna Richardson,

and if you're a regular listener to It Can't Just Be Me, then welcome to our second weekly episode, It's Not Just You. Each week I'll be joined by an expert to explore the issues and dilemmas that are affecting you. No guests, just you, me and an expert. Nothing is off limits, we're open to it all, from your mental health, to dating, to your sex life, to addiction, all of the challenges and hurdles that life throws at you. We're here to offer some practical advice and support because because whatever's on your mind, it's not just you.

So let's begin. Dr Hazel, our clinical psychologist and the founder of Think Avalana is back. Hello Hazel, how are you? Hello, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. Lovely. Well, we have got another dilemma in for you and this time it is from Lauren. Hi, Anna. I have been in an on-off relationship with someone for a few years. During an off phase, they dated others and I was devastated. But soon after we rekindled and became on off again. I feel on edge all the time as I'm constantly waiting for another off phase to happen.

They're never abusive or horrible, it just fizzles out for them and I end up on my own. It sounds silly, but I just can't seem to let go of them even though I'm constantly in fear of it ending, especially as we approach Christmas. If I was advising a friend, I would tell them to move on because they deserve better and it's toxic. But for some reason, I can't stop myself going back. It can't just be me stuck in an on-off relationship cycle. Do you know what? I know somebody who is in exactly this situation. And I think that we've, we've all been there. Why is it Hazel that some people are drawn to this kind of toxic pattern or this kind of toxic partner, this slightly sort of

codependent push me pull you kind of relationship. What's going on do you think? Oh, relationships are so complicated, aren't they? Yeah. And one of the things that strikes me as we hear this is that idea that there's knowledge and the mind is saying one thing which is like this maybe if this was someone else I'd tell them you know this isn't good. However there's also emotion and desire and drive that perhaps

pulls us towards characters that feel exciting or you get that emotional connection with that feels, can feel great in the moment, but actually afterwards this on and off pattern we start to recognize maybe isn't very good for us. And I think what Lauren is describing, many people like you said will have experienced at some point or another, Anna, won't they? They will have been in this like, it feels great, but then suddenly it

doesn't feel great, but it feels great again. And because you keep getting that hit, it makes it very difficult to leave. So do you think it's quite addictive then, is what you're saying? I think it can be, because I think there can be an element of you have to work hard, right? You're working hard, working hard. Oh, are they noticing me today? Not noticing. Am I getting some response? Not getting some response. The unpredictability can feel like a sort of a pull to try harder, to try harder, and then maybe that's rewarded. And so it's almost like a,

you know, a reward cycle that gets set up that you sort of want to try and see, can I get something from this? Some validation. If I try hard enough, then actually this person is going to notice me. And how much of that pattern is set in early childhood, do you think? Sometimes we do sort of copy the relationships that we have in early childhood, and our attachment patterns can get played out again. But sometimes we also seek out partners

that are almost the opposite of that, right? So we can go to the other extreme and try and find. Why, why would that be? If you've had perhaps an experience of an attachment pattern that I suppose was anxiety provoking, for example, you may then try and seek out a partner that did the opposite of that, recognizing that that wasn't a pattern that you necessarily want to be in again.

So there may be some very kind of functional reasons why we might seek different types of patterns. But also, you know, I think we're learning now more about attachment styles. And when I'm talking about attachment styles, I'm really talking about the ways in which we connect with other people, particularly perhaps when we feel threatened. So we often fall back into our sort of base attachment strategy when we feel under threat. Just explain a bit more about that, because what are the different attachment styles? And why would you then fall into the one that's most familiar? So just tell us a bit more. So there's a range of different research, I suppose, disciplines and models looking at attachment styles. So some people might simplify it down

into maybe there being sort of three or four. When I studied attachment, there was like a whole range of different variations within those three or four. So it can get quite complicated, but perhaps the best ways to understand it when we're talking about attachment from when we're babies is to think about the ways in which our needs were met and how we, the behaviors that we learned in it, in order to elicit that attention. If we use some of the sort of more simplified language around attachment, then what we might describe as a secure attachment would be where you cried and your caregiver came

and recognized that you needed something and helped to figure out what that was. Are they hungry? Are they cold? Do they need their nappy changing? And all of these are caregiving behaviors that help us to learn that, oh, I'm a vulnerable baby, but my needs are going to be met.

But sometimes we may have experienced a different type of attachment pattern where sometimes our needs were met and sometimes they weren't. So we might describe that as more of a sort of ambivalent attachment style, where we signaled that we needed something and it didn't always come in the way that we were expecting it to. And then sometimes it may be that there was more of a kind of anxious attachment strategy that played out that can happen for all kinds of reasons where perhaps there was too much

and we weren't given a chance to develop on our own or we experienced our caregiver as being very anxious and perhaps never letting us cry. And I'm not suggesting that you should let babies cry and cry and cry, but that there can be kind of too intense in relation to attachment strategies too. So, and it's really tricky, right? And parents get it wrong all the time.

I'm a parent, I get it wrong all the time too. So it's definitely not something that we get right a hundred percent of the time because babies and children are complicated. But what we want to try and do is to be available to meet their needs as much as possible. So in a situation like this with Lauren you're saying that potentially she might be playing out an attachment style that possibly is it a bit of an anxious attachment style or an

ambivalent attachment style is it that she's a little bit addicted to the on-off? Just just tell me a little bit more about what might be going on here. So we don't obviously know exactly for Lauren what she's experienced, what her childhood experiences have been like or what the partner, romantic partner experiences have been like too, because we have to remember they're playing out a style too. So and they're they're experiencing and playing around with different patterns as well. But it may be that, yes, it mirrors relationships that she has had in the past.

And that may be with her primary caregiver, it may be with other people that came into her life that started to create models of how to have a relationship. So we can also learn, even if we perhaps didn't have the strongest connections with our primary caregiver, if we now know if a child has some other person in their life that has been able to provide that kind of security and that responsiveness which is predictable and

consistent that that can help us to build a new blueprint for how to have a relationship too and this is what we're really talking about it's we're talking about these kind of blueprints that we create in our mind that help us to go ah this is what good looks like this is what a healthy relationship looks like now even if Lauren has that kind of blueprint of what good looks like, and that is a secure attachment, this could be something very alluring and exciting about going off on a tangent from that, that provides this sort of, like we were talking about, it's a bit addictive, it can be a bit of a drug to see, can I be good enough to create, to get all of their attention?

You know, if I just try a little bit harder, maybe they're just going to want me. Which becomes so dangerous, doesn't it? So how on earth can Lauren change this dynamic and ultimately get out of this toxic pattern, because she's saying that if this was a friend of mine, I'd be saying to them get out This is really unhealthy. Yeah. So what should she do to try and apply that to herself, right? So I think what's really powerful in the dilemma that she's written about is that fact that she can see if it was someone else I wouldn't want them to be in this and When we have the power to step back and see it from another perspective, when we can do that amazing thing of being able to go, okay, if this was a friend,

I would tell them not to do this and try and move into that space. Then I think that's so helpful for us all, whatever our dilemmas might be, to recognise that the advice we might be giving to someone else is different to the advice we're willing to hear for ourselves. And often some of those barriers can be around our own feelings of self-worth. I tell my friends to get out because this is no good for them, but I'm not sure if I'm good enough or worthy enough to get out of this myself. And there can be some complicated things tied up in that. Does does Lauren understand that she absolutely deserves something better than this herself too? Is she able to hear that and recognise that? So maybe she needs to work on on her self worth. So maybe hearing that, yes, starting to have those conversations with with herself or journaling or talking to someone else about it to recognize that she too is worthy of a different

kind of relationship. And then I think the mind has the possibility of being able to drive this little bit forward and we can separate out from the however good it feels when it's on. She also knows there's an off period coming and that doesn't feel good. And she's already dreading the possibility that this is going to be an off time, right? So she's living in this dread of it feels good, it feels good, but also it doesn't feel good because I know at some point this is gonna end. And that's the underlying anxiety, isn't it? Constantly of knowing I know that this is gonna happen.

Yes. And to live with that is so, so difficult. It strikes me that really everybody has a line, don't they? Everybody that's been in this kind of, you know, codependent, toxic, on-off sort of relationship, everyone ultimately has a line where they'll go, enough. Yep. Enough. Yeah.

Don't you think? I do. And I think if Lauren was here, one of the things I'd love to ask her is, like, what would be the worst if this ended? Like, what are you frightened about with this being over? And people have all sorts of answers to that. You know, I'm worried I'm gonna be lonely. I'm worried I'm never gonna meet anyone else. I'm worried that I won't be able to financially cope on my own.

I don't know what sort of situation, you know, she's in, but actually really trying to pin down, there's a reason why she's not left yet. And actually sitting with that and trying to understand what the worst part of that might be, as much as we might want to run away from that, can also give us some strength to realize, okay, so let's say she's worried that she's going to be lonely and she's never going to meet anyone else. Okay. So what would it be like to be lonely for a while? And what could she do to minimise that loneliness and who is in her support network that she could

turn to to say, I'm thinking of ending this for good now. I'm really worried I'm going to be lonely. And often it's worth, as you say, exploring that and just sitting with that idea of facing that fear of the loneliness and accepting that maybe that's a better thing for now than having to deal with a permanent toxic relationship. Right. Because she can have some control over loneliness. I mean, the feeling of loneliness, of course, we all experience at some point or another, but she can start to plan a little bit, maybe feel a little bit less like that dread feeling of, oh, I know the next off is coming. Because now she has a possibility of changing what her future looks like, of perhaps taking

on a new hobby or a new interest or finding other places to nurture herself. And that's actually taking some control, isn't it? So rather than allowing this other person to dictate what's going on, she is able, even though there's the fear there of perhaps loneliness, she's able to go, as you say, actually I'm now going to take control of this situation and where do I put my support system in place or how else do I fill my time in order to create a new future? Absolutely yes. Hazel thank you very much indeed and again I hope I hope

that's helpful Lauren if you're listening and that you can get yourself out of what sounds like a really, really anxiety-making relationship. That's it for today. Thank you so much for sending in your dilemmas and sharing your stories with us. It's so important that we're having these honest conversations that ultimately everyone can benefit from. So if there's something you want to talk about then please keep them coming. Whether it's big or small get in touch with us you can email us or send a voice note to hello at itcan'tjustbeme.co.uk You can also find us on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook. Just search for It Can't Just Be Me and remember whatever you're dealing with I promise

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