It Can't Just Be Me - It's Not Just You: Retiring To The Country

Episode Date: January 24, 2025

This week, Anna is joined by psychotherapist Sam Pennells-Nkolo to discuss a listener question. Lou is in her 50s and very happy with her life, but her husband wants to relocate from the city to the country. Does getting older mean we automatically want a slower pace of life? And how do we navigate big decisions where ultimately people want different things without compromising a loving relationship? Sam has some excellent advice to share.If you have a dilemma or situation you'd like discussed, reach out to Anna by emailing [e-mail] or DM her on Instagram @itcantjustbemepodNothing is off limits, we’re open to it all, from your mental health, to dating, to your sex life to addiction…all of the challenges and hurdles that life throws at you - It's Not Just You is a place for you to find some practical advice and support. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, I'm Anna Richardson and if you're a regular listener to It Can't Just Be Me, then welcome to our second weekly episode, It's Not Just You. Each week I'll be joined by an expert to explore the issues and dilemmas that are affecting you. No guests, just you, me and an expert. Nothing is off limits, we're open to it all, from your mental health, to dating, to your sex life, to addiction, all of the challenges and hurdles that life throws at you. We're here to offer some practical advice and support because whatever's on your mind, it's not just you. So let's begin. Today we have our star psychotherapist from the London practice, Sam Pannell-Zancolo, back in the studio. Now, she is a familiar voice on this pod for those of you who listen

in regularly. So let's get cracking with one of your dilemmas. This is from Lou. I grew up in a rural county and as a result, my parents never encouraged me to go further in life. At 19, I ended up married, pregnant and then soon enough divorced and a single mum. In my 30s, I changed my life around, went to university and moved to the capital after getting a very social job. I love it. I met my now husband in London and we've been together 14 years. Now I'm in my 50s, have grown up children, some grandchildren and still go visit my family who have chosen to settle there in my rural hometown. My husband wants to relocate there. He spent time with my

family and loves the quieter pace of life, the garden space and is so over the clutter of London. And I get it. By moving we get more for our money and our home in London is in dire need of repair, which we won't need to do at the new house and can't afford to do in London. But I don't want to move. I cannot tell you how much I love my life here. I still have to be in London for some of the week for work and my husband thinks we can make it work by using hotels and staying with friends. But I don't want to be on hand for my family. I want my midlife to be about me. I want to be fulfilled mentally and culturally and I'm so scared I'm going to lose this by moving. It can't

just be me that is scared of losing myself. I mean, I feel a bit like Lou is in my head. I literally have this discussion with my other half and friends actually, every other week. Do you move to the countryside? And or do you stay put and enjoy well in this case, London? It sounds as though Lou is, as she said, just terrified of losing herself again. As a psychotherapist, listening to that, what is going on in your head? I suppose she's already answered her own question, I think. She's very clear about, I don't want to move. I want to stay here. So she's not saying maybe, maybe not. And she sounds

happy. She sounds like she's been for a huge journey and she's happy now and doesn't want to go. She wants to live life by her own standards and the way she wants to do it. So I think she should do that. But look, there are two people in this relationship. There's her husband as well. And you've got an entire sort of family unit

that's then built around them. So, I mean, I really admire Lou because as you say, as well and you've got an entire sort of family unit that's then built around them. So, I mean, I really admire Lou because as you say, I'm happy. I've created this life that I've got in London. I've got a great community around me. I feel fulfilled. I feel purposeful. I don't want to move. But it's not just about her. So how, with your couples' counselor hat on, what would you be saying to these two people as a married couple? I'd be asking, what do you want? Let's pretend I could wave a magic wand and you could just live there's no compromise. What do you want? Yeah. And

then what do you want? And then how do we maybe meet in the middle somewhere? Could we go to the countryside every weekend? Could we do Thursday to Monday? Can we split it up so we don't have to be one or the other and just see where it went? So really, this is about two people getting both of their needs and desires and wants met isn't it and I hear you Lou is saying I'm really happy where I am albeit my house needs doing up we can't afford to do that but if she's got a husband going I really enjoy being in the countryside I I want my veg patch. I want a quieter life.

Then that's gonna put quite a strain on the relationship, isn't it? It is. Usually you're finding couples, one person, it's never 50-50. No one compromises exactly equally. It kind of goes up and down. So one person usually bends a bit more

and then the other person bends a bit more. And I suppose it's looking at resentment. This is a big one. So whoever's going to be very resentful, if there's going to be a move and one person's gonna hold onto that or no move, that will poison the relationship. So there has to be open dialogue about how they're feeling,

maybe testing it out. I often say to people, does it have to be a hard line? We do this or we don't do that. Can we just go, well, we can trial it or see how we feel and then see how that goes. And then it feels a bit safer and it doesn't feel so permanent. Exactly, because moving, moving lock, stock and barrel to the countryside is permanent. I mean,

that's a big deal. Yeah, that is a big deal. So you're saying, look, just dip your toe in the water, maybe do some more trips to the countryside, maybe go and stay with mates out there or hotels there, see how you feel about this sort of countryside life and try and find a compromise somewhere down the line. Let's talk a bit about resentment because that has tickled my fancy a little bit because you see that so much don't you? In long-term relationships, how does it manifest in your therapy rooms when you see couples in terms of resentment? You know how some people really hang on to it, whereas other people punish or some people are good at saying, I'm actually really pissed off. How does it tend to manifest

when you see couples? So what tends to happen is we'll be talking about one thing and then suddenly it will be two years ago when you did that and then four years ago and then yesterday and then and it's sort of like, okay, what are we talking about here? And the other person is completely unaware that I didn't even realize that this was a problem. So then we have to go back in time in a way and say, okay, let's work through this before we can even talk about what's going on today. So if we don't talk about in our couples, I suppose, or even in a friendship, what upsets us, what we need in the moment, we just hold on to it and then it slowly poisons us and the relationship. I was going to say, I feel as though hanging on to resentment is an incredibly toxic thing to do and that the healthiest thing for us is to be able to discuss, I'm a little bit upset about this, can we sort it out and can we move on?

Yeah. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about midlife because I think sometimes there's that perception that people want to slow down in their 40s and 50s and 60s and that just isn't true. And if you think about Lou, Lou's going I am vibrant, I'm living my life, I want this to be about me now, I'm having a great time. Do you think that we feel a pressure to fit in with the social norms of what society expects of us, especially at this age? Definitely, there's people, as you say, they kind of move to the country, it's become a bit of a trope.

Yeah. And then people move to the country and they say, Sam, I need to speak to you because I hate the country. And so it's in that same breath, I suppose, it's well, what do you want outside of, everyone else could be doing what they're doing, but you might not want to do that.

One of my clients, again, I think she's in her 60s now, and I said, okay, how are you feeling about, you know, you're at the pace of life. And she said, nope, this is time for me to go faster, harder, stronger. This is what I want to do. So I think we've got to be a bit more individual about it. And not follow the herd and think that's going to make us happy. Yeah, I think you're right about the trope of, you know, oh, we're in our 50s,

the kids have gone to uni, let's move to the Cotswolds. So there's no should. No. It's just you do you and find out actually what makes you feel fulfilled and happy. Exactly. So look, there's pros and cons to staying put and there's pros and cons to throwing it all up in the air and moving. Again, as a couple, if Lou and her husband were in your therapy session, how would you be practically helping them to navigate what it is they both need? I'd probably make the stakes a bit lower.

And when looking at decision making as a couple, examine how do you do that? So where are we going out for dinner tonight? I want to take away, I want to stay in, I want to go out. I want to go to an Indian, I want to have pizza. How do you decide that? Because those are usually the mechanisms we use for bigger decisions also. And we can practice on smaller things and again I'll say to people when you go into the supermarket how do you make a decision? If you're

with your partner or a friend how do you negotiate and get to one place that everybody's happy? And the more we can kind of flex that muscle and sort of notice our tendencies, then when it comes to the big decisions, we're more practiced. That's interesting. So you're saying notice our tendencies. In other words, you must see couples where clearly there's somebody that is used to getting their own way or will push the agenda and will feel very unhappy unless they're getting what they want. So is this about encouraging people to notice their personality

traits and notice when they're being inflexible and also asking them to just have a little bit of a think about what compromise looks like for you? I always encourage people to go the other way so if they're the one that's inflexible, if they're the one that's rigid, it'll be like okay you need to go let's experiment with completely the opposite. And same with the person, usually there's one person that's kind of relaxed, kind of goes with the flow, and I'll say, I want you to be a bit more rigid, and just experiment and explore what that's like for you, and see where your line is and where your edges are. And then you decide, okay, this is how I want to approach this problem. Because we

tend to go into or just fall into our default We fall into what we've always done. That's always helpful And then we get into this dynamic with a partner and then the partner just expects well, this is how it's always been Yeah, yeah, what's going on now? This isn't who you are and that brings up more problems So I suppose it's just experimenting with yourself different ways of being and that how that impacts your partner So I often say to people go home and that how that impacts your partner. So I often say to people, go home and pretend your partner, treat your partner, how you would someone at work. Hi, how are you doing?

What's going on? And see how they respond, because most people go home and they're just they the partner gets the worst of them. Yes, that's very true. All of that. And see when we change, they change. So it's not about changing them. It's not about trying to change someone else. If we change and go home and just do we change, they change. So it's not about changing them. It's not about trying to change someone else. If we change and go home and just do anything different,

you'll see a difference in your partner. Well, what you put out, you get back. Exactly. Don't you? So you're quite right to sort of experiment with suddenly if you're very interested in your partner when they get in, you lavish them with a lot of attention, perhaps you've cooked for them,

whatever it is that you've changed it up in that way, then you're gonna get a much better person in response on you. Yeah, for sure. way, then you're going to get a much better person in response. Yeah, for sure. You would. Yeah, I'd be a much nicer person as well. That's very, very interesting. So ultimately, we're saying to Lou, you know what it is you want. You're very clear about that. But quite possibly, and it makes you very happy. But are you then also being too rigid in your expectations of this is my life, it's my midlife, this is about me and by doing that you're then excluding everybody else including your husband. And it's to say I wonder what he would say about it. I wonder the lens that he, the language that he would use, how he would approach this problem and kind of just how he feels about it and if he would be willing to again take the stakes down so don't make it such such an intense thing because we can kind of be paralyzed by that yeah and then we can't

make any decision. If you're listening to this and feel like you relate to how Lou is feeling then make sure that you listen to the episode we did recently with Lou Featherstone who is all about self-love and finding your true purpose in midlife. Honestly, it was a great interview. But in the meantime, do you know what, Lou? I hear you and I hope that you and your husband are going to find a very, very happy compromise,

wherever that may be. That's it for today. Thank you so much for sending in your dilemmas and sharing your stories with us. It's so important that we're having these honest conversations that ultimately everyone can benefit from. So if there's something you want to talk about, then please keep them coming. Whether it's big or small, get in touch with us. You can email us or send a voice note to hello at itcan'tjustbeme.co.uk. You can also find us on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook.

Just search for it can't just be me. And remember, whatever you're dealing with, I promise it's not just you.