It Can't Just Be Me - Telling it like it is with Kate Lawler

Episode Date: November 6, 2024

In this episode of It Can’t Just Be Me, Anna Richardson sits down with model, DJ, and broadcaster Kate Lawler. It's been 22 years since Kate made history as the first female winner of Big Brother. Anna and Kate talk about how her life changed overnight after the show and her evolution from party-loving DJ to a married mother of one. Not afraid to tell it like it is, Kate opens up about her uncertainty regarding motherhood, attending couples therapy with her husband and how she tackles mum shaming and body shaming from complete strangers online.If you or someone you know is struggling with any of the topics discussed in It Can’t Just Be Me, you can find useful resources and support here: https://audioalways.lnk.to/ItcantjustbemeIG.Every Friday Anna, alongside a panel of experts, will be addressing YOUR dilemmas in our brand new episodes ‘It’s Not Just You'! If you have a dilemma or situation you'd like discussed, reach out to Anna by emailing [e-mail] or DM her on Instagram @itcantjustbemepod Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com. Hello, I'm Anna Richardson and welcome to It Can't Just Be Me. If you've listened before, hello. And if you're joining me for the very first time, it's great to have you here. This is the podcast that helps you realise you're not the only one. It's a safe space where nothing is off limits as we try to help you understand that whatever you might be going through, it's really not just you.

So each week I'm joined by a different celebrity guest who will talk through the challenges and hurdles they faced in their own lives in order to help you with yours. I want to know about it all. The weird, the wonderful, the crazy, because these conversations are nothing if not open and honest. So let's get started. My guest today became the first female winner of one of the most iconic reality shows on British television. It was 2002 and Big Brother would regularly pull in audiences of millions,

making the housemates in the most famous house in the UK overnight celebrity sensations. In the wild years that followed, she became known as the hard-drinking international DJ and TV presenter, renowned for getting the party started, but that came at a cost. Now, 22 years later, she's a calmer virgin radio host, podcaster, presenter, author, and mum to daughter Noah. Best of all, she's achieved all of this whilst being completely,

unapologetically, unashamedly herself. Welcome, Kate Lawler. What an intro. I know, right? Hi, Anna, thanks for having me. That was such a lovely intro. That's everything. Hard drinking. Well but you really were though at the time. There was a period of five years where you just went completely mental. Oh yes. Let's face it. Now listen there's obviously a lot to talk about because your rise to fame in 2002 and here you are 22 years later. Still famous famous still very very well known still out

there there's a lot to talk about but before we get into it what sure it can't just be me dilemma please this is so really like people are gonna say what I can't bear people using the word unreal unreal really a case it's a, so it's a new word. It's a new word. No one ever used to say it until it appeared on Love Island. And yet I watched Love Island. But I saw someone say it in Love Island

and now everyone says unreal and it really bugs me because no one said it before then. I don't know why it bothers me so much, Anna. It shouldn't. But the other day I went past Space NK and there's a bloody makeup now and it

says unreal like lip gloss unreal and i'm like what's going on the words taking over and just taken over so can we pinpoint this down to a year that people started saying it the year which um tom was in and sammy you see you're looking at me like i should know what you're talking about i refuse to watch love island do Do you? A hundred percent. I've never seen an episode. Will never do. You're better than me. I am.

I think that morally, I've got the higher ground. Yeah, I'm scum. Even though I do make a detraction. So, you know, it's questionable with the morals. But I'm going to take a higher ground on this one. So give me a year. You think... Two years ago, it was two or three.

At the most. But the word has just become really popular and i don't remember anyone describing anything ever as unreal people used to just go oh amazing unbelievable and i hate the word amazing as well because i use it a lot but it just become a word and it shouldn't bother me i don't know why it bothers me so much but my husband even used it and i was like stop stop it. And now when I went past that shop the other day and I saw the makeup

and it said, new shade, unreal. It's gone too far guys. Enough. I'm going to give you that. I am going to give you that as a really good

it can't just be me because that's annoying. Unreal. That's an irritating word. Cut it off a love island. Haven't you found it? Is that where people have got wild from

at the moment? Because everyone keeps going, oh that's wild. And it's like, is it though? Is that where people have got wild from at the moment? Because everyone keeps going, oh, that's wild. And it's like, is it though? Is it wild? It's not really wild though, is it? There you go. It's come from somewhere.

Yeah. It's highly irritating. Well, this is what happens with words, right? So someone says a word and it becomes a thing and then everybody uses that word. So look, it'll be gone in a few years. There'll be another word that comes out which we're all using and I'll probably use it and people will get annoyed at me but that is just yeah that's my dilemma sorry guys if you use the word unreal and now you're

forevermore going to think of me every time you use it now listen you've described your life as a series of sliding door moments that have really impacted you, I think more than a lot of other people actually. And Big Brother was clearly one of those moments. Am I right in thinking that you weren't even going to apply for it? It was your twin sister that wanted to go on. Yes, she did want to go on the show. So what were you doing in the run-up to Big Brother? I was working in an investment bank, IT help desk.

I didn't know what the heck I was doing. I just managed to blag a job because I used to work in an IT recruitment firm. And then my boss said, oh, there's a bank in London that's looking for people. You don't really have to know anything. It's in-house tech that you'll be trained on. It's kind of helpful to know something, though, if you're responsible for a bank's tech issue. It is. You're absolutely right.

So more for the bank for hiring me exactly stupid idiots it was fun but i moved to tokyo with my then partner who was moving there to work and i lived in tokyo for a few months amazing and for it's a long old story but i came back with him after a few months and then applied for Big Brother because my twin sister was going to apply for it I was back at the bank I printed out the application form for her she said it's far too long I can't be bothered it was sat on my desk because I phoned her I said this is 50 pages long there's all sorts of psychoanalysis in here and she was like I don't want to do it so then I just was like I'm gonna do it and then i applied

but i i filled out the application application form it was sat on my desk for a few weeks and then i sent it off on the very last day and a colleague of mine was a video editor at the time it was his hobby and yeah the producers were quite surprised at how well put together the video was so that to the point where they thought i was like undercover media I was like some some journalist from the Sun they've been like who'd had a video made for them but anyway I got in somehow I got into Big Brother so why did you want to do it I if I'm honest with you I knew it was it was a very new show yeah I mean it was it was a massive massive people i don't think understand this anybody that's sort of below 35 probably doesn't really understand how massive

what a big show this was pre-internet yes it was a social experiment nothing had been done like this before it was quite extraordinary it was exciting everybody was into it and it was also hugely interesting to just watch regular people which never been done before go into a house and come out overnight like six weeks later being celebrities that kind of I mean there was always when I was at school I always wanted to do acting I always felt like I wanted to do be on the stage and perform in some way but when I left I went straight into working in an office and I loved it and I just turned my back like when I was doing drama I wanted to be on the stage but after school I just forgot about it but there was always that kind of like inside of me I was always quite like

performative always a star I don't know if I'd say that babes on the IT desk I just I just think I I was destined as I know I say sliding door moments I think everything is just mapped out for us I think I was just destined to do something in entertainment you see I love this kind of shit so do you believe in that kind of like sort of destiny thing that things certain things are predestined for you yeah I used to think it was sliding doors but the more I've grown up I'm like this was just mapped out this was always going to happen I was always meant to be in that relationship which would lead me to this relationship I was always meant to be in that relationship, which would lead me to this relationship. I was always meant to do that job and then come home and then do,

I just believe in that. I think it's mapped out for all of us. Well, I mean, you have had an extraordinary journey. So there's you on the help desk in the bank. Your twin sister can't be bothered to fill out the Big Brother form. You do. You send it on the last day.

Why did you want to do it though? Oh, I never answered your question. Sorry, I do go around the houses. The money i'm it was 70 000 pounds which even now is an extraordinary amount of money i was living with my family with my mom and dad and i knew that there was no way i was getting on the property ladder unless i had a huge deposit i was single and so i just thought this is my way of of getting that deposit and moving into those new flats that are being built up near the Chinese roundabout in Beckenham. Yes, I want one of those. So when I got in, I just thought this is it.

Like I could win this. It's like I feel like it's a woman's year to win because Craig had won the first series. And then it was Brian afterwards, wasn't it? Then it was a gay guy. And I was like, it feels like it's a woman's turn. No women have won yet. I'm going to be the first woman to win it.

And I really, really wanted it. I really wanted to win it because of the money, but also just because it was Big Brother. It was exciting. What a thing to do. So I get asked to do reality shows all the time. I cannot think of anything.

What have you been asked to do? Worse. You've been asked to do The Jungle. So Jungle comes up quite a lot i mean i can't even go camping i can't even go in in a camper van you'd be brilliant it'd be perfect that's why they're asking you exactly it's like the worst but i cannot imagine anything more traumatizing than being trapped in a house with strangers for how many weeks was it nine weeks it was great fun it was wonderful i couldn't imagine

anything worse than the jungle i'll give you that but everyone's got a price and i wouldn't would you do it for a million quid i would but i wouldn't but a million quid you'd go in the jungle yeah like forage but i wouldn't do it i wouldn't do 500 grand actually i would that's ridiculous my mortgage yeah we would go we were saying this they were talking and they were going so my friend was going everyone's got a price you would do it and I said not in a million years and they were like 500 grand I said yes

400 I went yes we got me down to about 250 250 grand? yeah because by the time you pay your agent by the time you pay tax by the time you paid

all your bills and stuff it's got to be worth it's got to be paying off a total mortgage so quarter of a mil you would go into I'm a celebrity get me out of here

yeah but I wouldn't want to but what are your phobias? Everything. I hate the dark. I hate rats. I hate heights. You know the beginning when they're on the crane? Yeah.

Die. There's just no way. I'm a celebrity. Get me out of here as the stopwatch starts. I just, I could not do that. I couldn't go in a coffin. I'm a bad swimmer. I would never.

You wouldn't see me getting in a helicopter. No way. I wouldn't jump out of a plane. No, no, no. Big brother, piece of piss. Sitting in a house for nine weeks getting drunk. Maybe they should do a format for really, really frightened people like you and me. Do you know what I mean?

It's already given me palpitations. Anyway, big brother's great, babe, because you're literally in a house. No, I'm trapped. Lovely. It was great. Made friends with people. Got drunk every night. Did all these weird and wonderful challenges.

Experienced this really strange... It was the closest thing I think I'd ever have to going to university. I never went to university. I say it was like my uni experience. Okay, probably, because that is very similar to going to uni, I have to say.

So look, you won. So I remember it really, really well. Clearly, it's a life-changing event. Yeah. How did your life change? So you remember that moment when the doors opened, you're standing on the top, you've realised you've won. How did your life change? So you remember that moment when the doors opened, just standing on the top, you realised you've won. How did it feel and how did your life change?

That night I was very, very drunk. I don't remember a lot from what happened, to be honest with you, because we were just intoxicated because I was in the house for a very long time before I left. We were drinking punch made of all the alcohols, all the spirits and all the mixes. And so by the time I left. We were drinking punch made of all the alcohols, all the spirits and all the mixes. And so by the time I left, I was just,

all I remember is those doors opening, people cheering. I saw my family. I was so excited. And then Davina was showing me the bank of Big Brother with the money going into the bank of Kate. And I wasn't looking at that. I was looking at my photo and I was like, look at my photo. I look really weird.

She went, Kate, there's 70,000 pounds. But I was like, I'm not, I just, it didn't compute that I'd won that amount of money until I went to the bank four days later and checked my bank balance and was nearly sick with excitement that my bank balance was like £70,000. 90 pence. I mean, that is a lovely feeling, isn't it? It's great. Changed my life.

Yeah. I helped my family out. I put a deposit down I bought a flat and it was my step onto the property ladder and then my my career just changed I did think about going back to working in the bank because my boss messaged me going job's still open and I was like yeah sweet and then the people the chaperones who look after you like there's a few people who want to meet you to talk about work opportunities that sounded quite fun so yeah I I met with a few agents and I went with one who's

still my agent to this day. And that was it. And then my life changed for the good. Like there were obviously ups and downs. There have been career highs and career lows. It wasn't. Well, tell us a bit about that because over the five years after that win, it does sound like your life went a little bit off the rails sometimes in a good way but mostly in a bad way yeah it did so just just give us a bit of an idea of what actually happened to you so i mean you're painting a picture of this was just one of the most exciting things that's ever happened to you you've won 70 grand you are suddenly this massive celebrity in the uk and again this is pre-internet so you're all over the newspapers

all over the magazines yeah so just give us a bit of an idea about the highs and the lows over the next five years well the highs are that you are suddenly like the most famous person in the UK at that time because there are no there is no internet so you're on the front of every newspaper and magazine and everybody wants everybody wants a bit of you but you're being offered these huge exciting opportunities you're going to events you're I mean being on the cover of okay magazine I was like I thought it was the best thing in the world and I absolutely loved it and I had money so I was able to help my family and friends I was like going out all the time and I bought myself a flat and I was at the national tv awards i was like looking around there's all these like famous faces and i was just like this is insane what life am i living

but i did struggle with being propelled into that like um i was gonna say overnight were you well i was just gonna say to you were you prepared for it but how can anybody be prepared for that yeah because you go in and you're just kate from beckonham down the road but it would be like little things like just going back to the gym everyone would be looking or i'd go out for drinks at my local bar and i'd be talking to strangers most of the night who'd voted for me and i felt like obviously i wanted to say thank you and speak to them but then i wouldn't really see my mates yeah and then and then just yeah the opportunities very work opportunities were great in that first year but once the second the next series of big brother started you're kind of forgotten about

and then the work dried up oh that's hard and then i was only 23 so i went from being like the winner of big brother everybody loved me and wanted a bit of me and then i kind of like people forgot about me and i was 23 and i was like oh what happens now and I wasn't prepared for that so tell me a bit more about that so suddenly the work's drying up the invites are drying up did you keep your agent or did your agent then drop you what happened no no kept my agent she then moved and worked for another agency I went with her but what I did was I was in a relationship with a footballer and he was playing for Newcastle United and then he was playing for Real Madrid I kind of went I was constantly a relationship with a footballer and he was playing for Newcastle United and then he was playing for Real Madrid I kind of went I was constantly traveling with him and then coming

back because I didn't want to make the move fully because I just didn't want to give up what I had in the UK and I decided to learn to DJ because I was like I've got loads of downtime I can afford to buy decks it's something I've always wanted to do so I learned to DJ so was this this is a conscious decision of look the work's drying up yes I'm a bit of a wag but actually I want to do something for myself and I'm going to learn to DJ yeah good for you and I wanted to earn my own money I wanted to carry on earning money I'd spent a lot of my money and I didn't have money for tax so I was really irresponsible when it came to finances so I really wanted to learn to DJ anyway and so I did and then I got a few gigs because I was Kate from Big Brother so I'd I'd learn to DJ anyway and so I did and then I got a few gigs because I

was Kate from Big Brother so I'd I'd managed to get a few gigs off the back of being on Big Brother and then I I was DJing a lot my relationship fizzled out with my then partner because he was in Spain and he asked me to move to Madrid but I was just like no what am I going to do here like yeah we're going to get married and have kids I'm 23 yeah. Like, no. And also, I don't know anyone. It's just, no. He understood. It was like, it wasn't the right time for him. It wasn't the right time for me.

And I had the most incredible four years DJing. I went around the world. I went to all these magnificent clubs. I DJed from anywhere from like Southampton to like, I went to Sao Paulo. And it was incredible, but it was a lifestyle that kind of, that was just hard to keep up with. And by the time 2007 came and I was offered a job in radio in Birmingham, my family and friends begged me not to take it

because it meant me moving away to Birmingham. But I saw it as a lifeline. I thought to myself, I cannot do this anymore. I cannot be going out DJing five nights a week and doing all the fun stuff that comes with it and all the late nights it was just so hedonistic and I don't know how I'm still alive well this is interesting to me so basically you're saying look drink drugs rock and roll late nights really unhealthy around unhealthy people at what point did you think this is just this is just unmanageable i can't i'm gonna you know i'm gonna be ill i think it was when um two of my friends overdosed and ended up in hospital and they were both in a coma and we thought we were going to lose them and we

were all out one night and we'd heard that they'd overdosed and genuinely it was the scariest thing ever because we were all you know at that period taking this drug which was terrible it was ghb yeah my god yeah oh it was gross i can't believe i did it but um they were very lucky to survive and i thought what am i doing i'm never going to make anything of my life if i carry on this way and it was mad because I still think at 26 that's like quite a grown-up attitude to have and I look back and think well I'm so proud of myself for making the decision to leave and go to Birmingham when all my friends and family said don't do it just stay in London and they obviously wanted to selfishly just have me around but they didn't realize I don't think to the extent of what was going on on the inside. I think it seems to me that you're somebody that has made very canny decisions at certain points in their life, given that you were so young at the time.

I mean, it was a very astute decision to to apply for Big Brother. You kind of knew you were going to win. You played that game brilliantly well. You did. You knew that you wanted to do it just for the money not for the fame interesting you then knew that actually I'm going to teach myself something I'm going to become a DJ I'm only young so I can go around the world but then when it became too much you made that very clever self-preservation decision of going nah this isn't good for me anymore so on to the next thing but this is what I mean about these you know how it's all mapped out for us like this is why I find it like at that time when i was thinking i can't do this anymore i i was offered a job opportunity just i was actually offered an interview on karang about

the series of big brother that was on currently and when i i was interviewed by this guy tim shaw he said if you're ever in birmingham come and co-host my show with me and i said i'm in birmingham this weekend i'm dj and he said stay an extra night co-host the show with me and I said I'm in Birmingham this weekend I'm DJ and he said stay an extra night co-host the show with me and I did the late show with him and then the next day he said if he rung me he said if I ever get off at the breakfast show I'll give you a call and he did like literally six months later I mean these things never happen I know it's really odd isn't it but I feel like that that's why I got the call and I was like what I'm being offered a chance here to do something with my life and I'd already messed up one radio career i think i glossed over that so i got a job in radio in 2002 after big brother but i was it was on a sunday afternoon with andy peters and i was coming in on a sunday like having having not slept

having been at like the nightclubs in london until the radio show which is not andy no no no andy was coming in after being at the gym for an hour he'd baked a fresh load of banana bread he'd gone to wagamamas and got himself a nice edamame lunch. And he was like, hi, I'm here. And I'd be like, kill me now. I'd be dying behind the desk. And after a year, the program controller, very rightly so, said, like, we just don't think you're into this. And I was like, yeah, I know.

I've lost the job. You're not right for this anymore. And they were like, yeah. And so when I was given that chance of getting back into radio, I thought, I'm going to do this. And so when I was given that chance of getting back into radio, I thought, I'm going to do this. Ironically, what made me choose to go to Birmingham and not stay in London and carry on DJing was me being in DC10 in Ibiza with a friend of a friend.

It wasn't a good friend, but it was somebody who was quite impartial. So it wasn't a best friend or a family member. But we were sat outside of the club and we were just sat on the wall and it was really hot and we were in the heat. And he was just like, go to Birmingham. We were completely high. I was just like, I don't know what to do babes and I wanted to just stay and DJ and just believe you know move to Ibiza or just carry on DJing and go to Birmingham he was just like go to Birmingham get do the job in radio and that's when I made the decision to go to Birmingham so I

did so you kind of got that fresh start in radio then didn't you and i really tried to make a go of it so cleaned up a bit and it's like this is my career are you glad looking back that social media wasn't a thing oh my gosh can you imagine i'm so glad i am so thank you praise be thank the lord because i would have been cancelled a thousand times i did so much shit i'm thankful that all of the stuff that we did back in the noughties. Yeah. No one has any proof. There's no evidence. Yeah, no evidence at all.

The stuff that happened, although kind of sometimes I do wish we had video moments of what happened because it was hilarious. But yeah, also like the trolling. So like in in my day, if you didn't like somebody on the telly, you'd have to literally get paper and pen and write them a hate mail and go to the post office and buy a stamp and post it. Now you're just, you're a gun. You can just fire something off, can't you? So I'm really pleased it wasn't around. But you have experienced a lot of that trolling and that hatred recently in terms of social media. So look, you're a very slim woman.

You look amazing. Thank you. You've had a lot of stick, I've noticed, for posting pictures of your amazing body in a bikini online. But the word anorexic gets thrown around a lot for you. I know. What is that all about?

How do you feel about complete strangers having an opinion about you posting actually very healthy, beautiful body online? I mean, look, there's a lot to unpack here. First of all, I think if you're in the public eye, if you choose to live your life online, then you have to accept that not everybody is going to say nice things about you. It doesn't mean it's deserved. It doesn't mean it's deserved it doesn't mean it's right but i have to accept that there will be people out there despite all the campaigning that's been done despite the number of people who have taken their own life due to like people being nasty about them on social media yeah there are still assholes out there so it is what it is they're going to say it no matter how much we tell people to be kind it's it doesn't

seem like it's slowing down it seems seems like it's getting worse. Why? I don't know. And the sad reality is it's often girls, it's often girls saying nasty things about girls. It's often women saying the worst things about a woman's image. We should be standing up for each other. We should be loving each other. We should be bigging each other up,

not tearing each other down. The other day, this woman posted on a video of myself and my husband. We were filming our podcast and she put, he's way too good looking for her. She's punching. And I thought to myself, I just went on her profile and I was like, you sad. Dear Lord. I said, dear Lord, what a sad little comment.

Because I always quite like to like just write back something silly. But that cut me deep because I know my husband is good looking I know that but you know what I tell quite funny jokes okay you can't just go shopping and buy another one of me no you can't I know he's really fit but I that cut me deep I was like even questioning it I mean I find this really curious because you know clearly you're a very beautiful woman as well I've seen the pair of you you look great together you really complement each other i mean he is he is infinitely better looking than me but but it doesn't i don't think that i don't think that's that's true and it's really interesting to hear you worried about my husband's so good looking someone saying to me that i'm punching above my weight that cuts me but i'm the funny one it's like why should i tell you

why road should i tell you why road should i tell you why because i feel like like when people um when people talk about my appearance i know it's not true so i know i don't look anorexic and i know i'm not anorexic so that that kind of doesn't really hurt me it still annoys me it really frustrates me but when it's somebody saying that oh he's he's far better looking for you yeah i always when we met i was like you're so handsome like why i am yeah so it kind of because it's something that i've always felt was there so it's a reality for me so that's why it hurt so that's a trigger it is a trigger yeah well look let's asshole um but the body thing can i just say it doesn't matter whether you're a size 8 or a size 18

or a size 28 it doesn't matter if you're tall or short fat or slim whatever everyone on social media seems to make a judgment over you about your size and i feel quite frustrated that in this day and age and there's nothing wrong with this by the way plus size women and larger women are being celebrated and being told you know get in get in a bikini, love your body. And that's great. OK, like I'm all for that. And I really want to see women not being afraid to wear a bikini or a swimsuit and, you know, to love their curves. And I think that's great. 18 or a size 28 whatever like that that's you you do you but i feel like you can't be a happy size eight i feel like there has to be something more like you definitely can't be eating the other day someone wrote on the same bloody video by the way someone wrote skeletor does not eat pie they're talking about me because my husband cooked a chicken and leek pie i was like that comment really made me laugh damn it because you're an arsehole but like that was i do i don't know what i have to prove like i am i love being the size i am and i do eat but why

can't people just accept that i look after my body like we are eating so many bad foods now like half of the food in fact the majority of the food that that is in our diet right now is ultra processed foods to the point that when i make myself a salad or I make myself something that's really healthy like a salmon people are like oh when are you going to eat a pie and I'm like I want to I want to live a long life I want to look after my body I actually feel better when I eat good food and this is proper actual food that we should be eating so don't tell me if I want to put on weight I definitely won't be eating a burger go and have a burger like we do seem to have a sort of strange obsession don't we constantly about weight and women's weight in particular because you obviously get trolled

about because you're very very slender you're a good looking woman I constantly get comments about what I look like or whether my weight has changed over the years and that's coming from journalists as well and it's a bit like why why does this matter? It really shouldn't matter. Why does this matter? We should really just be supportive, I think, of each other and just get over the fact that, fucking hell. It's always women as well, can I just say? Yeah, it is.

That get targeted. A man can like put on weight and then lose weight and then like go from like a size whatever to like ripped and all like muscular. But no one says anything it's not a big deal but when it's a woman who does it it's a really big deal and there must be something going on we place so much value don't we i think as women on appearance and particularly body shape and size yeah um and there seems to be this sweet spot that nobody can ever

quite attain well i was talking to ricky wilson who also works on virgin radio the other day and he said if you're if you're out if you're not there in the middle of size 12 like if you're below it you're the enemy if you're above it you're the enemy and it's a really good point because people will either body shame you for being overweight or body shame you for being underweight but if you're not just that perfect size 12 where you're not too overweight or too underweight everyone's happy yeah but to be called anorexic and to be i posted a picture of myself in a bikini once and it's my instagram i'm sorry that i am posting stuff on my instagram that you don't like you don't have to follow me by the way but i'm going to post a picture of myself in a bikini on holiday because that's i want to do it right

and someone said you need to apologize you're triggering anorexics which i was so i was so livid about because i don't think i look anorexic and if you think i look anorexic fine but we've all seen posts on social media we've all seen somebody do something on social media and gone oh and thought to myself and don't say you haven't because we've all gone oh my god i wouldn't have done that or oh god i don't think oh god she doesn't she i can't believe she's doing that or he's doing that. But I would never sit and go, you're this, you're that. Just be nice and you can think what you like. We can't help what we think when we see stuff,

but you can help what you do next. You don't have to send abuse. You don't have to target people for their appearance. You don't have to target anyone or troll them just because the way they look isn't to your liking. So you're happily married to Bodge now and you have your little girl, Noah. Congratulations. Thank you.

But it did take you quite a while to find him and settle down. Just tell me a little bit about that journey, because I know that you've had along the way some tricky relationships. And I think that people will be able to identify with that now that you're, well, are you 44? Yes. So 44, you're happily married, but there's been some difficulty, hasn't there? Yes. Should we put it that way?

There has been, sadly. But I think I met my husband when I, God, how old? He was nearly 40, so I was already like, no, hang on a minute, what am I talking about? It was his 30th, so I was, yeah, I'm like, oh my God, we've been together so long. So he was coming up to 30, so I was already like and hang on a minute what we're talking about it was his 30th so I was yeah my god we've been together so long so he was coming up to 30 so I was just like 33 so we've been together 11 years but when I met him I was in a really dark place and I wasn't

ready for a relationship because I'd just come out of a really toxic relationship it was a long relationship that I should have got myself out of years before I did. It's hard to though, isn't it? When you find yourself in those situations and relationships that are so bad for you, it's very difficult, I think, for a lot of people to get out of it. I can relate to that. Yeah, is it because with you, I don't know if you're the same as me,

for me it was, I knew it wasn't right, but I felt sorry for him and I felt worried for him because I knew how much I meant to him and our dogs meant to him and I just didn't want his world to fall apart I just felt so bad you felt responsible yeah that's interesting yeah it was it was like it was that it was like I just and there were moments where I was like I'm really happy but then I wasn't and then this is it often it was just like it was so we were really toxic but it was like he would make me make me really laugh but also make me mad and make me

sad and yeah it was just unhealthy and I just I felt like I could not I even had to write him a letter to end it I could not tell him face to face because I knew he wouldn't he would not let me leave that is I mean that is terrifying when you're in a relationship where the other person will not let you go I mean it becomes that unhealthy I just don't think he would have he would not have accepted it he would have it would I just know what what would have happened if I'd have sat him down and said it's over it just wouldn't have he wouldn't have accepted it And so it was a really hard few years in that relationship. And before that, I, I think I, I, I went, I had, I've definitely had a colorful love life, but I don't regret a single thing.

Like I've, I've had bad relationships. I've had good relationships. I've had long relationships and short ones. relationships i've had long relationships and short ones i i've only been hurt once but it was by somebody that i i haven't like i feel like i haven't been cheated on that i know of there wasn't a kind of i found out that he was having a fair moment in any of my relationships but there were suspicions in one um and then another guy i found out after i broke up with him was actually living a double life and had. Yeah.

And lived with this woman and took me on holiday. This is when I was 20, though. Hang on a minute. You found out with one of the guys that you were going out with. They had a double life and was living with somebody else. Yeah. And he told me that he was living with his mom, but he wasn't. So I had no idea. And yeah, he took me on holiday and he was like, I'm just back before we had mobile phones.

He'd go into a phone box and say, I'm just back before we had mobile phones he'd go into a phone box and say i'm just ringing my mom but he's actually ringing his wife oh my god and i had no idea and then did you find out she found out because they were going on holiday and when we came back from holiday i'd put my luggage tag on his suitcase by accident and his on mine and she got their cases out and found my name and address and when i was in big brother she was like that's the girl so then she found out who i was when i was in big brother yeah and i really if she's listening to this podcast man i'm sorry but like i had no idea idea yeah but you know you were saying earlier on that some of these things are predestined some of these things are written i mean the fact that you accidentally mixed up the luggage tags come on

it's almost like or maybe subconsciously he wanted to be found out i don't think he did he played that very well i had no idea and i feel like i'm a good judge of character and then after that i feel like i did have a good i felt like i was in love a couple of times but then i also just you know there was a period of my life where i was just like loving being single and just like having sex casual sex with people i just i did sometimes that's great isn't it yeah it was great it was lovely i probably i mean the word ghosted wasn't around back then but i probably ghosted a few guys but i still feel so for women it's kind of it still feels like we get judged for just going do you know what i want to go out i do want to have a one night stand i know i am going to

have casual sex and that's okay why can't we do that why is it okay if a guy has a sex like a count of like a hundred but if it's a woman slag you're a slag you absolute slag

I mean I don't know how many people I've slagged with if I'm honest with you actually that's a lie I do me and my friend Hayley once wrote a list

and I've still got that list upstairs in a diary pink leather diary I've got the list you've got the list of how many people you've slept with?

Yeah. Are we talking double figures or triple figures? It's not 100, but it's over 50. And it's below 50. That feels kind of like normal, doesn't it, for the 90s? I do think so. But I think some people, like, for example, my twin sister's only slept with about seven. So she's like, I can't believe how many people you've slept with.

So you've made up for her? Yeah. She was like, what? She's like, anything that I say I've done. She's like, you do what? The thing, she's such a prude. And she's your twin, right? She's my twin sister.

But she's not identical. Non-identical. No, we're no more identical than, you know, me and my big sister or my little brother. But she, we tell each other everything. She can't believe the things I've done. It's really funny. I'm like, everyone does this. She's like,'ve done it's really funny I'm like everyone does this she's like no they don't I'm like what she couldn't like I slept with a girl once she was like what are you gay I was like what no she was like you're not gonna

tell mom and dad are you I was like what so what if I do so look let's talk about happier days because you are married to bodge um and you guys have got an amazing podcast so you have maybe baby you've written a book off the back of it as well so you're very happy you get married but suddenly there is this whole question about the baby do we have a baby hence the podcast you were pretty anti it weren't you because you were just enjoying your life as a woman that was unsure about whether she wanted to be a mum and again I think so many women can identify with this so why did you feel the pressure and why did you change your mind um I didn't feel pressure until I was in a relationship with somebody that I really really like knew I was going to spend the rest of my life with, because that's when

everyone's asking you, when are you going to get married? When are you going to have kids? I never felt pressure until that point. And I told him from the beginning, I said, just so you know, I'm not into marriage or kids. I really just, I like the idea of being with somebody. And I like the idea of having dogs in my life. And he was like, chill, it's date two. I was like, I'm just putting it out there, babes, just so you know. And he thought, fine, we're only dating, but little did we know we'd then end up together for many more years. And it was by about year five that he said, look, what do you think about marriage and kids? Because I know you said that you didn't want to. And I said, I was still the same babes. And he really wanted to. Yeah.

So then came like a couple of years of really uncomfortable conversations because he would always, people would be asking us and he would say, well, it would be nice. And then he asked me to marry him. And I was really excited about that because I actually finally wanted him to ask me. I'd got to like stage in a relationship

where I was like, I think I'd like to marry you. And when he asked me, I was buzzing. But then he was like, we're gonna get married. What about kids And when he asked me, I was buzzing. But then he was like, we're going to get married. What about kids? And I kept saying, stop asking me. I don't want kids. I really don't. I just don't believe it's for me. I can't imagine my life with kids. I'm happy for everybody who does have kids, but it's just not for me. And the pressure from other people was never too much because people just knew how I felt. But I thought it'd be an interesting idea for a podcast because I didn't want children at that point. And he really

did. So the podcast was an eye opener for me and actually really weirdly got me thinking more and more about it because the more people we spoke to who had children and I never took an interest in it before, but the podcast was all about talking to people about the benefits and why it would be amazing too then I started to think oh maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea maybe one would be okay you know I think maybe one eventually when I'm ready and yeah and then when I turned 40 something I swear I turned 40 and something clicked overnight. I remember we were having dinner in the garden, in our neighbor's garden, because it was in the height of lockdown and she let us borrow her garden. We were sat outside in her garden for my birthday, for my 40th. And we were having a drink and I was like, I'm 40. Like, I feel like I, I'm ready for something

new. Like, is it a new job? He would say, it's a baby. You're ready for a baby. And I was like, no, I'm not. I think it might be something else. But then I thought to myself, maybe it is. Maybe I'm ready. Maybe 40 is the age I finally do something out of my comfort zone that I feel like I'm not sure I want. But maybe I do want it. Maybe this is the time. Maybe I should just do it. And yeah.

So if you look at your life pre-NOAA, were you happy and fulfilled? And then you look at your life post-NOAA happy and fulfilled and then you look at your life post Noah you're happy and fulfilled yes I am happy and fulfilled with Noah and I was really happy and fulfilled without Noah and I believe you can have a really fulfilled life without children you can I actually feel from having Noah now like I can't I can't believe I I couldn't imagine a world without her in it and everybody told me before I had her the love you'll feel for your child you just can't and I was like it's going to be the same as dogs but it is different because my dogs are always like babies they're always going to be like newborns i have to feed them i have to clean up their poo

and stuff like that noah literally will grow up and move out and not need me anymore when she's like grown up but i love her to bits but my goodness i feel after since becoming a mom that my happiness is like that it's up and down it's up and down? Really? But I suffered with postnatal depression after Noah. Did you? Yeah. Okay. And I'm in perimenopause now. And if you've suffered from postnatal depression.

Yes. So I think it just so happens that since she's come along, I've had mental health struggles. I don't believe that it's because of her. You know, I mean, obviously having a child, if I didn't have Noah, then I wouldn't have had postnatal depression right yeah but so i'm not blaming her in any way but yeah i've had more mental health struggles since i've had noah than before i had her well because there is a link isn't there with postnatal depression and pmt and also perimenopause yeah so it sounds as though maybe some of your anxiety is is sort of you know reproductive

years related and ironically like i was never i'd never had like the anxiety or i never had like low moods when i was in that toxic relationship and so so many things happened in that relationship that i think to myself how come i i didn't feel like i needed help or therapy or and like antidepressants or anything like that when I was in the worst possible place I thought but like when I married my partner and we bought a house together and we had a baby and we got our dogs and I was in like the happiest how how is my mood like on the how I've got everything that I could have ever wanted in life yet my mood why do I feel shit yeah i couldn't i still can't explain it it's really

odd but it's hormones i guess yeah so you are working with bodge again aren't you on your new podcast which is bodge and kate have a lot on the plate yeah how hard is it for you guys to work together as a married couple i mean that must be really difficult it is yeah we're not getting on at all are you not we we have very different ideas of how the podcast should be right but three weeks in we've you know what we prepped the other night for the podcast and he said we didn't fall out and i was like high fives to that babes so it was leading up to the podcast being launched and the first few weeks where we were at each other but what do you fall out about is it about control is it about who's got more of the

spotlight is it about opinion what is it it's about who's in charge really yeah because we've had couples therapy and our therapist is like both of you want to be in charge you've got to stop wanting to be in charge and you both you both like you're so competitive with each other like i think i know best and he thinks he knows best and i'm from a radio background i'm like i've had all this so clearly you know best exactly and he runs a podcast production company so he's like yeah so we just we butt heads but this week we hit a really nice like ground and we prepped the podcast together and we cooked the dish and then we recorded yesterday and we were like that was the best episode so I think we're getting there but it's been it's been like a pretty tough time for

us do you recommend couples counseling oh my gosh a million percent i think everybody should have it oh it's been well we're still together because of it and he suggested it he suggested to me that we have couples therapy before we even got married i was after my post-natal depression and he said look i think we should have couples therapy i burst into tears i was like you want to leave me i thought he was breaking up with me he said i just want us to start our marriage on the right foot and we found this amazing therapist and i really hated it at first i was like i can't do this why did you hate it we were late on the zoom cause i just don't want to talk about our relationship with a stranger she was amazing and she has been instrumental in us like getting back

on track and having the best relationship we could have i mean don't get me wrong there's still ups and downs and i'm still that's normal and that's life and that's relationships yeah but i recommend it so and so hard for couples because i feel like a lot of couples would make it if they just spoke to each other or they spoke to somebody about their difficulties but it's so i was the person that didn't want to talk he's a talker he wants to sit down and communicate and talk about his feelings. And I'm like, oh, I let them brew and then I just lose it. But I think if more couples just had it in them,

and it's really difficult to just talk about their feelings to each other or to a therapist, they might make it. So I really recommend couples therapy. Okay, let's take a quick break here. But don't go anywhere, Kate, because in a moment I'm going to ask you to pick a question from my little box of truth. Oh, gosh. Oh, yeah.

The only rule is you must answer, and that answer must be honest. I know you're going to be honest. You're about to help yourself. Are you up for it? Well, it depends what the question is, babes. I don't know if I can be honest about it. No, I will. I will, I promise.

you up for it well it depends what the question is babes i don't know if i could be honest about no well i will promise we get it life gets busy luckily with peloton tread you can still get the challenging workouts you crave only have 10 minutes take a quick peloton workout. Want to go all out? Chase down your goals with 20 to 45-minute tread workouts. No matter your goals or time, Peloton has everything you need to become everything you want. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit onepeloton.ca.

This is an ad by BetterHelp. What comes to mind when you hear the word gratitude? Maybe it's a daily practice, or maybe it feels hard to be grateful right now. Don't forget to give yourself some thanks by investing in your well-being. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world, connecting you to qualified professionals via phone, video, or message chat. Let the gratitude flow. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P, dot com.

Welcome back to It Can't Just Be Me, and I'm here with the one, the only, the indomitable Kate Lawler and it's time for the It Can't Just Be Me box of truth. The moment where celebs start to become just a little bit nervous. In front of you Kate there is a pack of cards containing random personal questions. All you have to do is pick one and all you've got to do is basically give an honest answer as well as you can, best as you can go on this one is what do you think you should laugh about more often I think I should laugh more often about the struggles of parenting because my husband always reminds me he's you know always try and see the funny sides like sometimes I get really in private not in front of my child but I get upset and I cry a lot and I'm like oh I find

this so difficult and he's like but is funny. Like what she's just done is funny when you think about it. I'm like, yeah, it is. You're right. I was just like, this is like, what is my life? And he had to find the funny side of it. And it's just things like her half terms coming up. And I was like, I'm going to CBBs. I'm going to Gutopia where I'm playing with slime. I've booked tickets for us to see the Nutcracker. No, but I used to DJ in Ibiza and I used to be cool and I'm like look at all these things I'm doing he's like you're gonna have a blast it's gonna be really funny so I'm gonna try and see the fun side of those things but like it's when she throws a tantrum over something really silly

so her mood affects my mood so she will go batshit crazy because I sliced her cheese wrong like she wanted it this way not that way and like when we were on holiday recently there was all these tantrums like she didn't want to wear this dress and she was losing it and she does this thing where she goes you're not my friend anymore and she tries to cross her arms but she like hugs her shoulders and she doesn't do it right and I'm like freaking out and body like it is funny watching her try and be cross with you and that night I was just like so like her mood has just affected my mood it's affected the whole night and he's like it's funny she's being like

a little brat let her be a brat it is funny and so I wish I'd be a little bit more easygoing about how tricky it is but I find it hard. Kate thank you so much for joining us today it's been an absolute pleasure you've been on an amazingly incredible journey that's been unreal but it is it's such a pleasure to hear you and your life really has been quite awesome and it's fascinating to listen to so thank you so much for coming to the studio um with that in mind given that you have had such an extraordinary life what one piece of advice would you give to people who are listening today? I'd always say take every opportunity that comes to you because I was not going to do Big Brother at one point.

I did consider not doing it because I was thinking to myself, this is going to change my life more than I can imagine. What if I win? What if I become like Brian Dowling? Like what if and then look at the opportunities that have happened since. I don't regret it a bit. I think you should don't be scared into taking opportunities that you're worried about. Just do them. That's it for today, but I'll be back next week with a brand new episode of It Can't Just Be Me. But in the meantime, I also want to hear from you because something else very exciting is coming. It's not just you. These are extra weekly episodes where I'll be joined by different experts and we'll answer your dilemmas. That's Friday and every Friday afterwards. So please,

if there's something you want to talk about, whether it's big or small, funny or serious, get in touch with us. You can email us or send a voice note to hello at itcan'tjustbeme.co.uk or just DM me on Instagram at itcan'tjustbemepod. Because whatever you're dealing with, it really isn't just you. We get it. Life gets busy. Luckily, with Peloton Tread, you can still get the challenging workouts you crave. Only have 10 minutes? Take a quick Peloton workout.

Want to go all out? Chase down your goals with 20 to 45-minute Tread workouts. No matter your goals or time, Peloton has everything you need to become everything you want. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit onepeloton.ca. This is an ad by BetterHelp. What comes to mind when you hear the word gratitude? Maybe it's a daily practice, or maybe it feels hard to be grateful right now. Don't forget to give yourself some thanks by investing in your well-being. BetterHelp is the largest online therapy provider in the world, Thank you.