It Could Happen Here - A UPS Strike Deferred

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

Midway into recording an episode about the potential largest American strike of the last 25 years, Mia and two UPS workers find out live on air that the Teamsters have cut a tentative deal with UPS to stop the strike. No one is pleased.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking music, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and

influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Mia from the very, very near future. We found out as we were live recording this episode that Teamsters leadership has cut a tentative agreement with UPS to try to avert the strike. So we've decided to leave this in

and you're going to hear us find this shit out literally in the middle of an interview of what we thought was going to be a really, really, really large strike starting. So enjoy. a really, really, really large strike starting. So, enjoy. It's strike season here at It Could Happen Here,

the podcast where things fall apart, and sometimes you put them back together again. And as you probably have noticed, presumably from the last interview, maybe from reading the news, maybe from talking to people who are in unions we are in a genuinely historic period of labor militancy in this country that is effect effectively we are now we are we are we are now entering the second phase of the hot summer of 2023 uh we used to have hot summers all the time people knew what that meant and now it just means like global warming but long ago in a galaxy far far away there were these things called hot summers when everyone would fucking

go on strike and there'd be you know sort of mass resistance to capital estate and yeah we're fucking going back there and to talk with me about the next series of massive private sector strikes that we're about to get is reese sm Oliver Rose, who are rank and file UPS workers and teamsters doing the standard disclaimer. These individuals do not represent the union or the positions of the union. They are speaking as individuals. Yeah, we have this is this is this is the disclaimer for the lawyers. It is also true. Yeah, but Reese and Oliver, welcome to the show. Hey, yeah. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank Reese and Oliver, welcome to the show. Hey, yeah, thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you much.

Yeah, I'm really, really glad we can talk to you. So, all right, the day this is going out, it'll be six days before the Teamsters are potentially going to go on strike and the current contract runs out. Can I, yeah, can we talk a little bit about what okay who who is first who is going on strike and what do they do yeah so uh there's going to be 340 000 uh ups workers going on strike and that's going to be you know the inside warehouse workers and that's going to be the uh the delivery drivers um and also the feeder drivers and the 22 fours like all of them uh could you explain uh what oh what the last two are yes yeah so 22 fours is a classification of worker where they're kind of half inside um and half driving uh something that the union has told us is that there's already been a tentative agreement that that classification is not going to exist anymore. It was kind of a

really raw deal for people that found themselves in that position. Shit, what was the other one that I mentioned? 22.4? Theater drivers, I think. Theater drivers, yes. So theater drivers are not your regular package delivery drivers. They drive the big semis that you see from like hub to hub and whatnot. And that's how they deliver. So those are the last two classifications that I mentioned. And yeah, we're all going to be going on strike. And well, we are potentially going to be going on strike and well, we are potentially going to be on strike. And if we are, UPS is kind of going to be in a world of hurt because

it is very hard to replace 340,000 workers. And what economists have told me is a tight labor market so yeah it's going to be very exciting yeah it's i'm i'm excited like i don't know you know it was funny so when when when sag officially walked off and joined the wga strike that was that was the largest strike since hilariously the teamsters went on strike and like the year i was born in like 97. And hilariously, that is a title that if this happens, they're going to hold that title for like one month before this UPS striker places it as the largest strike in the US since the 90s. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be wild.

If we go on strike while, you know, SAG-AFTRA is on strike and while the Writers Guild are on strike, that's going to be over half a million workers on strike in this country at this time and that is just going to be you know it's going to be fucking historic right yeah and and there's and there's a chance depending on how long these strikes drag out that we get to like september the big the big three auto uh the uaw goes on strike and if that happens that that that will be like the most number of people who've been on a strike in this country since like the 50s which is wild especially you know because this is supposed to be a sort of like i don't know i think the sort of especially interesting thing about this right is that

actual union density is really low and hasn't been increasing that much on the other hand like everyone seems to like unions and everyone wants to go on strike and i don't know it's it's a really interesting sort of set of conditions right now oh yeah oh yeah i i uh i'm very uh heartened by you know the the support that unions have garnered uh because as you mentioned you know we are at a low union density there was like that labor decline that happened, you know, since the fucking like 70s and 80s, right? Like the backlash to organized labor. I am very hopeful that this strike wave

can kind of turn that around, right? You know, something that I've been thinking about a lot is, you know, it's like UPS is a major company in a whole logistics sector, right? And like we can set that standard for that logistics company or like a piece of shit company like Amazon can. So if we win and we win big, that could absolutely encourage more organizing in those other sectors leading to an increase of union density. So hopefully that's like the way forward past all these strikes. It'd be great.

It's sorely needed, sorely needed. Absolutely. And even beyond, you know, the logistics industry, you know, I think we can show that, you know, any, you know, company or corporation that, you know, year after year is making these record-breaking profits. You know, while meanwhile, there's poor work conditions or even unsafe work conditions, you know, there's pay that does not, you know, allow, you know, us to pay rent, put food on the table, you know, that we can just show that, okay, you know, we're done, you know, with giving all of the wealth that we're creating to the company. And now it's going back into our hands. Yeah. And UPS fucking created $13 billion in profits last year. Yeah. Yeah. And that's up from, I was just reading an article this morning in, in Jacobin written by a fellow UPS Teamster. And that's up from 6.5 billion in 2019.

And they're also giving- So they doubled their profit. They've over doubled their profits in like three, four years. They've doubled their profits and they keep trying to tell the union that, oh no, I'm just a poor pauper. We don't have money for your demands. Like, we're just we're just so poor. And it's like they're meanwhile, you know, they're given their fucking like CEO and shareholders like dividends and stock buybacks and all of that. In addition to the profits that they are reaping. Right. Because profits is just the cream of the crop right like that's yeah everything past business expenses what they're paying out like salary so that's not even being touched and uh yeah no it's time for us to say we want that we created that so i i think that leads into sort of the next thing i want to ask about which is can you talk a little bit about what the sort of specific grievances were that kicked this off? I'm assuming there are a lot because, you know, this thing sucks.

You know, and there is a wide range of conditions because, you know, for a long time, you know, the contract hasn't kept up with both like economic and non-economic side of things. You know, and we have kind of two dynamics where there's, you know, well, over a majority of like part-time workers who aren't getting enough pay or hours, you know, to afford to live. And then we also have, you know, the full-time workers who inside warehouse

could be working, you know, 10, 12 hour shifts. You know, we have drivers who are doing, you know, 12 hour shifts and, you know, even up to like 14 hours, you know, every day. And then also getting, you know, uh, contacted to come in, you know, on their day off, I happen to do six day weeks. Uh, you know, of course on the driver's side, you know, we have these escalating temperatures and meanwhile, there's, you know's no air conditioners in the vehicles. And same thing in the warehouse.

Because personally, I work inside warehouse as a loader. So I spend virtually all my shift in a trailer, loading boxes. There's no airflow. Those things can be 5 to 10 degrees like at a minimum than the ambient temperature. Uh, last summer, like on a mid 90 day, I recorded, um, 108 degrees, you know, inside the trailer. So, you know, there's not necessarily any kind of protections, uh, currently for that. protections currently for that. So,

you know, that's one big lack in the contract is having those kind of, you know, heat, heat protection and, you know, yeah. I mean, that can just kill people.

And we've talked about on the show before people who've died, like working conditions like that, because, you know, it was, it was too hot, but their bosses were like, fuck you.

We don't care. Like keep unloading this stuff. Yeah. And it's absolutely tragic. I know we had a, you know, teamster i believe in california uh who died due to the extreme heat conditions last summer and also no um you know there was another case where i think a driver stopped at like a convenience store to buy a drink uh and you know was fired for making you know off-route stop even though

they tell us you know take breaks when you need it but they don't actually mean it yeah yeah because obviously you know you wouldn't be being disciplined or fired one of the things that i i saw was part of negotiations that ups had offered to be like oh we'll put in air conditionings in all new vehicles. And I was looking at this and I was like, this is this is the Clean Air Act loophole. I remember this. If you only specify new vehicles, I'll just never replace the old ones. And like, I don't know that I've seen a vehicle that looked new when I'm at my hub. I'm also an inside worker. And yeah, they all look like they've been around, been around a while. And I don't know that they've been spending the capital to get those new vehicles. So that's absolutely something that we're going to, you know, keep their feet to the

fire on, so to speak. Yeah. And then in terms of other conditions that are like really leading up to this right now, there is a big problem with MRAs and no, not the MRAs you all might be thinking of. This is a market rate adjustment. And both are bad. Both are bad. We are staunchly against both MRAs. And essentially what an MRA does is, it sounds good at first. You know, it gives the company leeway to, you know, potentially increase our pay, right, beyond what's just stipulated in the contract. However, when you kind of get late into the contract, like, you know, towards the expiration date, the base pay that was agreed on for the last contract is no longer acceptable.

And while it gives them the leeway to increase our wage, they can always go back down to the lower wage should they choose to. And last year at the hub that I worked at, it was right after peak. In peak season, we were hired on at $27 an hour. And come February, you know, we're all walking into the job and there's one of the supervisors there who is frankly looking like she's not having a good time having to stop to talk to each of us to explain. Oh yeah. So we are going to be bringing your pay down to 1550 an hour. Jesus. Don't I know.

I know, but don't worry. Don't worry. There's an attendance bonus. There's an attendance bonus of $120 if you make all your shifts. And that really fucking sucked. Like if you get like, if you get sick, like, okay. So like at this hub that I work at, I work at one of the few hubs that don't have what's called the hourly guarantee. Most hubs have an hourly guarantee. If you're a part-time worker, you have an hourly guarantee of three and a half hours a day. So if they say that there's no work to be done, you can say, I want that hourly guarantee. And they either find you more work to do,

or they pay that out. And then for full-time workers, that's eight hours. I work at one of the few hubs that doesn't. It's a classification related to the type of hub that I am at. And so I'm only like at this hub, I work maybe 12 hours a week if I'm lucky. So this is 12 hours a week at $15.50 an hour with an attendance bonus. But if I get sick one of those days, that means I have a paycheck, a weekly paycheck that is going from roughly $200 to like maybe roughly 80. And that is just, it's totally, totally unacceptable. Um, the way that they can kind of like, yeah, with the plague going on, yes. Being sick is highly likely right now. Um, and yeah, no, they're just kind of able to like yo-yo us around on these wages, like whenever they want. And so a demand that is being circulated in the grassroots of the union, leadership hasn't really talked about it, to my knowledge. But there is a petition going around to have a starting wage

of $25 an hour. And right now, that would only be... Because right now, this year, I'm making 24, and they didn't do that bullshit. I think kind of in anticipation of the strike coming, they didn't want to make us more angry. And so that would only be a dollar increase for me, but also it would prevent them from doing that in the future, right? Yeah. So. And I like Reese, you know, also was affected by the MRA,

but luckily not as severe. You know, my pay went from 26 down to 23 an hour. And of course, you know, what? 10, 11% pay cut. Also same time inflation goes up, you know,

10%. Uh, you know, that was difficult enough, let alone having, you know, your pay getting dropped almost by 50%. Yeah.

There's multiple hubs in the area and they're all just on different pay scales, you know, for the same kind of, you know, same, same area doing the same work kind of, you know, same, same area doing the same work. And we just have these like fluctuating pay scales. You know, I know for us, it was, you know, right after peak season and they're like, oh, thanks so much for the most successful peak season ever. We made record breaking profits. We couldn't have done

this without you, by the way, we're cutting all of your pay. And now, of course, you know, we're getting paid above 25. And, hey, that helped their profits. So, you know, it's absolutely absurd to say, oh, well, you know, we can't afford, you know, these higher wages when they can. Yeah, they doubled their profits in four years. Yeah, exactly. They doubled their fucking profits like are you kidding me like jesus christ it's like they think we're fucking dumb it's like no like our work far exceeded what you're paying us like an unimaginable amount yeah and you guys like it

was uh uh earlier on in the, well, not earlier on. I think this happened maybe late June, early July. It was, they leaked, it got leaked, their economic proposals for us. And they had the part-timers starting at $17 an hour. 17. And like, I just, I don't think that's affordable anywhere. Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter

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Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field and I'll be digging

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And I'm Jemay Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, the early career podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. One of the most exciting things about having your first real job is that first real paycheck. You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions like, how should I be investing this money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k? Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Toot, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud, but I'm like every single year, you need to be asking for a raise

of somewhere between 10 to 15%. I'm not saying you're going to get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting eight, that is actually a true raise. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts that's the thing i'm going to mention that i think is i think it's really important but isn't

particularly well understood so you know if you go back to like the original 515 campaign right $15 million wage like that wage which was already like kind of nonsense in like 2012 like with inflation that's like 1930 now yeah so this is you know this is this is how much like inflation has sort of deteriorated wages and that and that's just sort of like you know the economic terms like inflation is like the bundle of goods right and that that's not accounting for the fact that, for example, the increase in housing prices has been way higher from the sort of like average rate of inflation, right? Health care costs are increasing higher from the sort of quote unquote average rate of inflation. And so like, yeah, it's like,

yeah, this sounds like a lot of money. It's fucking not like simply is not. Yeah, I heard at a rally not too long ago from one of the speakers for uh you know it was a it was a teamster rally that you know we're getting our members hyped and all that and one of the speakers mentioned that for our city a minimum wage that could be livable would be 26 dollars an hour and I'm just like yeah that seems right. And that's like the bare minimum. That's like, okay, I can eat enough. I can pay my rent and I probably don't have a whole lot left over. So. Yeah. Especially when we have, you know, like average rent, you know, for one bedroom, you know, what, around like $1,500, you know, these days. And so many landlords want, you know, want three times, you know,

that rent and income. So, you know, I was actually just kind of, yeah, writing, you know, or, you know, doing the math last night. I was just like, oh, okay. So on my hours, I would actually need $43 an hour. Yeah. Just to be making three times the average monthly rent. Yep, yep.

So that's definitely why $25 an hour is the minimum that I think we can settle for. I would love to see it higher, but I also recognize, well, maybe $25 is still not you know, in a more urban area, but, you know, there's going to be a lot of people where that's, you know, significant gains are going to help so much, you know, to meet their material needs. You know, definitely have to, you know, consider this as, you know, big picture. This is a national agreement and, you know. We got to get that really solid foundation, and then we can expand from there.

Yeah. Whoa, what the? Sorry. As you were talking, I got a thing saying that the Teamsters have settled. What? All right. I think.

Oh, my gosh. What the fuck? I knew they were back up the uh table back at the negotiation table jesus christ they've only been at the negotiation table for like four hours yeah uh okay what okay well i gotta check some signal shots here yeah jesus christ well all right i don't know if we're gonna leave this in but uh yeah we've discovered live on air that yeah teamsters win historic ups contract uh oh boy we'll see yeah i'm also looking at this and see one of the yeah i'm at the teamster.org uh website where they have an update on it uh yeah at least you know speaking of uh wages at least uh the first thing that i'm seeing is uh existing part-timers will be raised up to no less

than 21 dollars per hour immediately and part-time seniority workers earning more under a market rate adjustment would still receive all new general wage increases. Yeah, yeah, this is, uh, I'm not stoked on those wages. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm definitely, I am 25 or bust on this. Yeah. All right, so that does, uh, that will change things. That definitely changes the timeline. Because this still has to be sent out to be voted on and approved by membership.

Yeah. And what we learned at the, there was a call not too long ago where they kind of explained the process of it. So in the event that they would reach a tentative agreement that gets sent out to, we vote from home, and it takes about three weeks for it to ratify. There is still a possibility that membership could vote to reject it, in which case they would be going back to the bargaining table. And we could potentially be going on strike then. But this does set it back by now three weeks um it'll be interesting to see uh what the uh tdu which is the uh teamsters for a democratic union which is a reform caucus inside our uh our union it'll be interesting to see what their line is on this um so oh my gosh what a what a bomb drop to get in the middle of a podcast about this yeah but unfortunately can't even speak to it uh since

seemed a little bit of it and yeah yeah is it do they actually have the full agreement out or are they just do they just have A little bit of it. Yeah, yeah. Do they actually have the full agreement out or do they just have this stuff? They will not have the full agreement out. Something that we've been having a little bit of frustrations with within our union is that we do not have open bargaining. Oh, what the fuck? Yeah, yeah. Bargaining happens behind closed doors. Jesus Christ. And they occasionally give us updates about what's happening, but we don't really get to see the full picture until we're going to be voting on it. And

I obviously think this is bad for a number of reasons. One, and a big primary one, is these contracts that are negotiated. I was about to go get my copy of the contract so I could show you, and then I remembered this is a podcast, and that's not actually going to be helpful for people listening. We do visual bits on this podcast all the time. It's fine. So the size of our contract is about the size of a pocket Bible. Jesus. It is very, very big. Yeah.

And it's written in that legalese and stuff like that. And so it's not very accessible to most of our members. accessible, um, to most of our, uh, most of our members. Uh, and so, you know, if we had open and bargaining, if we had consistent, like updates where like, you know, our union leadership would be like, all right, so this is what we've agreed upon so far. This is what we've rejected. This is what it all means, you know, in the lead up to like whether or not you vote no membership could have a far more comprehensive uh understanding of what is in the contract instead of waiting until the very end as we got little bits pieces and snippets um and then being like okay well read this and decide how you feel yeah i mean that's i don't know if it feels like a system that's just sort of

kind of designed to like railroad people into signing whatever contract uh negotiators agree to yeah it's kind of a disaster and without that transparency i mean you know you know all of us rank and file members are you know essentially being removed from the process, you know, being involved in the decision-making, uh, you know, stipulating, uh, what's going to do it, you know, to meet our needs. What, what do we need, you know, out of these, you know, five-year contracts and, you know, I think it was just, you know, a few days ago, got, you know, get an update from the local, you know, basically a week before, you know, the contract ends, um, you know get an update from the local you know basically a week before you know the contract ends um you know and they're you know talking about this is like one of the most transparent

contracts there's ever been there's all these updates and you know there's more rank and file um you know members involved in the bargaining and it's like well that's great you know that shows you know how far you know we've come i guess but also it's still just it's kind of sad to think that you know this this process that's all banned by nda is the most transparent transparent it's been and and also the fact the fact that you're finding this out live on air from like their press release that they put out on Twitter. It's like, what? Yep. Yeah.

Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Absolutely absurd. Yeah. So it seems like this is a, this is an agreement that is going to be pushed by union leadership as a vote to vote yes on, which is a kind of a far cry from earlier in uh in july when you know you when the teamsters were telling ups you need to present us with either an agreement

that we like actually agree with or present your last best final offer by july 5th right yeah and Yeah. And yeah, yeah. So, yeah, we'll we'll see how how the rank and file react in the 2018 contract. tried to organize a vote no campaign. And they did get a simple majority of the membership to vote no. However, at the time, and this has now been changed, but at the time in our constitution, it would require a two-thirds majority to have rejected it and go on strike. Jesus Christ. Was that because it has one of those weird electoral college systems? Or was it like you need two-thirds to project a contract?

It was a you need two-thirds. That has been changed. When the reform slate was elected and they had their Teamsters convention, they changed the Constitution so that it would be a simple majority. So, yeah, we'll see the line that TDU wants to take. And, yeah, we'll see. This certainly puts a wrinkle in things i'm gonna be honest i was actually really looking forward to strike pay because my strike pay would have paid more than my actual job does yeah and i mean i think there's like i think there's a few things that we can sort

of immediately talk about from this one is that it doesn't like nothing they've put out here from what i've read so far i'm reading i mean literally i'm reading from the the teamsters like website says you're doing anything about market rate adjustments at all and the second thing is that you know we you know we were talking earlier before we knew that there was a strike about sort of the impact of this on the entire class and it really looks like both the teamsters and ups like you know really wanted to cut a deal as you know part of part of this attempt to keep everything going and to keep this stuff from happening which i mean i think makes sense right if you're you know if you're ups you don't act like we're we're having an actual sort of like workers insurgency like having having having a summer

this hot like isn't good for like it isn't good for ups it's arguably not good for some of the more sort of like from the more sort of conservative union leaderships either who do who unlike a lot of workers do not want to be on strike because that like that cut that cuts into the sort of war chest of capital that they have to manage yeah absolutely absolutely uh they're you know they're just recently on twitter or excuse me x it's x now but just recently on twitter there was a fair amount of uh strike discourse uh and there was you know, labor activists and stuff saying that, you know, like it's good. It's good for,

you know, if they reach a tentative agreement that, uh, you know, all this. Yeah. Yeah. If they reach a tentative agreement that,

you know, makes those material gains, it's better to not go on strike. And like, I, I know, I know like, and to me, that's like a little bit wild because one

there is so much and we could demand so much more yeah but also like you know collective action you know in order to be consistent to be good at it it requires you to undertake it right like and you know when i think about like how our local is um they have a very service model orientation to unionism as opposed to an organizing model and i you know i was really under the impression that this uh potential strike could have uh kind of like you know lit a fire under their ass and like kind of got back into like the organizing aspect of unionism. Right. And like, they weren't that great at that. I swear, sometimes we would talk to them about like, hey, so like, have you tried like mobilizing members? Have you tried like showing up at the gates? Have you like, you know, you can like,

there's like programs out there where you can text your entire membership about like, you know, you can like, there's like programs out there where you can text your entire membership about like, you know, come to this like contract update. And it's like, we were just speaking a different language. Like they just had no idea. Like they had no idea. And they would look at our union meetings where like, you know, we represent like, I think over like like, I think well over, like, a thousand workers. I don't have the numbers on that, so I'm not going to get more specific. But, like, well over that. And they would look at our union meetings where we have maybe 50 to 70 people, and they're just kind of like, well, this is just as good as it's going to get.

Yeah, and that's nonsense. It's nonsense. It's nonsense. Yeah, and that's nonsense. It's nonsense. It's nonsense. Like, you know, like back in the fucking like, you know, from like the 10s to the 50s, union meetings would bring in just so many people and they don't have anywhere near the like technological advantages that we have now. And it was just it's very much of like, yes, you tell us about your grievances. We get those filed and we do make those like wins for you

and like that's that's good like you know there are some unions that barely do that much and the fact that they do that is great but like you know at my hub I remember I was uh I was talking to my carpool and he didn't even know who his steward was. And I'm like the only person that gives him updates about what's going on in the union. And that's just because like when I started working at UPS, I was just like, yeah, I'm going to go to these fucking union meetings. I'm going to find out what's going on. I want to be involved. And most people, you know, it's just a job for them and they don't know all the things that a union can provide for them or how a union can back them up. And part of that's because, you know, union leadership which is like, OK, if you are like.

You know, if if if if you are someone, you know, if you are in a position of leadership and you're in a position of leadership because there's incredible space, there's like really, really low attendance for union elections, right? Really low turnout, which is which is usually true, right? Like union union election turnout tends to be just atrocious. You don't actually want more people being involved because the more people that are involved, the more likely it is that a bunch of people are going to show up to an election. And someone's going to look at one of the deals you cut and it's going to be like, what the fuck are you doing? So there's a lot of sort of perverse

incentive structures in terms of just sort of the basic organizational electoral structure that gets you people cutting deals and trying to cut off the sort of hot summer summer at its knees yeah i have something funny that's kind of related to that so uh when we were voting to authorize a uh to authorize a strike right you know we we did it and all of that and uh you know sean o'brien announced that there was going to be voting at the gates. And our local initially was like, oh, no, we're just going to have people come to the hall between the hours of 8 and 10 on two specific days. And we'll do voting that way.

Eventually, they did change it after they got pressure, I think, probably from up top and below. after they got pressure, I think probably from up top and below. But one of the members who is involved was like, oh, no, no, no, no, like, it'll be better if it's just the people that are motivated enough to go because they're the ones that are going to, like, vote the thing on through. And that was just, that was wild to me, seeing that sort of perspective.

Because if we, you know, if the union is there, if like, you know, our union reps, our business agents, if they're there, if they're constantly engaging membership, then we will all be on the same page. Like they're the ones that have all of the like, you know, the like technical information. They're the ones that can really talk to, they can talk to people about, you know,

like this is how much ups is making in profits this is like what they're paying our ceo this is all of this you deserve more and we're going to fight for it and if they had those constant interactions you would all be on the same page and we wouldn't have to worry about well if there's increased voter turnout it might make the vote kind of iffy you know like yeah there's definitely you know that's been one of my biggest gripes is around uh you know communications particularly you know from the local uh which is kind of practically non-existent and you know it's there's so many even like between new hires and you know even people have been there a few years with part-timers, like, don't know their rights under our contract.

And, you know, it was only because of organizing and, you know, talking with people that I know those rights and can, you know, then share that, you know, knowledge with other, you know, teamsters. But it's kind of like, well, why, why are we having to do this? And I mean, of course, internal or organizing, you know, knowledge is super important, but it'd be nice, you know, why, you know, why isn't there a, you know, like a, a welcome packet? Why are there, you know, not more, maybe not like full meetings, but at least something where, you know, our union officials can meet with rank and file members. And I think I'm partly, you know, speaking to that because, you know, the shift I work is during union meetings. So, you know, attending those is not, you know, not quite feasible, you know, for me or other people on my shift.

And I know that's also kind of seems like it's led to this, like some contempt for part-timers like, oh, we're not involved, you know, we don't care, but it's like, we don't, you know, we don't necessarily know, you know, about the meetings or that, you know, there's the scheduling conflict or, you know, again, talking about like, we don't even know what our, you know, basic rights are, you know, under our contract. know what our you know basic rights are you know under our contract well it's like a like you can't you can't not explain to people well you can't not onboard people and then complain that they're not onboarded like come on this is absurd self-fulfilling prophecy there you know you're creating the outcome that you think you know already exists because you're not engaging members.

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the early career podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. One of the most exciting things about having your first real job is that first real paycheck. You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions like, how should I be investing this money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k? Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud, but I'm like, every single year you need to be asking for a raise of somewhere between 10 to 15%. I'm not saying you're going to get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting eight, that is actually a true raise.

Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So there was another thing that I wanted to talk about, which is that there's been a lot of, like, I don't know. I've been seeing this in sort of various places in the discourse talking talking about the strike which is that there's a lot of people who basically are holding on to the notion that a people don't want to strike and b that like striking is bad and that you should want to do it as little as possible and you know this pisses me off for like a lot of reasons one of which is that like my grandma was a teamster and she was a she was a union punch card operator like back in like the 70s and 80s um and you know my grandma is like

like not like a leftist right like we have to stop her from giving money to the fallen gong like she's so you know this is the kind of issue we're dealing with here right but like she loved going on strike right like and that's the thing that like my family who's not like particularly sort of labor-friendly or like oh yeah no we love going on strike because that's that's why she has insurance right it's because because the teamsters would go on like any of these teams just would go on strike and i you know and i think i think that's everything that's like this you know this kind of well okay there's two ways to look at it one is that it's a fundamental misreading of the situation that's happening right now, which is, no,

people absolutely love going on strike. People are really excited to go on strike. People who people whose politics are not like, you know, people whose politics are not aligned with the left really like going on strike and are really excited about it. And this is something that's happening sort of irrespective of this. There's been a bunch of wildcat strikes. This is something

that's been happening sort of irrespective of like actual union membership as people want to do this we've also seen sort of the great resignation over the last few years of you know what is effectively a massive like part of the reason the conditions for labor are like this strong right now is because there's been this massive informal strike of people just sort of people you know walking off the job like deciding their job fucking sucks and quitting and that's been putting a lot of pressure on employers and you know and simultaneously this you know i i think i think the and quitting. And that's been putting a lot of pressure on employers. And, you know, and simultaneously this, you know, I think,

I think the reading of this, that's more sort of cynical is that like, these people know this, right. They know that people want to go on strike and they're looking at it and they're terrified. And their conclusion is like, we have to fucking stop. You know, we, we, we have to stop the with this wave of labor militancy before it gets going, because if it gets going, you know, if you're like, if you're, you know, we have to stop this wave of labor militancy before it gets going, because if it gets going, you know, if you're like if you're, you know, like a sort of centrist liberal politician or if you're like a conservative union bureaucrat, like that's terrifying for you. Then there's you know, there's there's a lot of people who have a lot to lose if if if, you know, like if a really sort of unprecedented wave of labor militancy gets going.

if really sort of a precedented wave of labor militancy gets going. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, when I think of, you know, people and wanting to go on strike, I guess I'll touch on two things here, which is that, you know, at my hub, whenever we talk about going on strike there, you know, there is a sense that, yes, people really want it. And also they're really worried that they aren't going to be able to. That like, you know, we're going to get this kind of agreement that most people will want and it's not going to happen. And we've had all of this build up and, you know, it's kind of kind of, you know, fall flat.

And then, you know, also I've spent a fair amount of time on picket lines as like a community supporter. And, you know, there is something incredibly magical about being on strike. You know, like there's often just this outpouring of community support for the workers, right? And workers get to see that their labor is extremely valued by the larger community. And I think that is really important. I think that builds bonds of solidarity. And you get to see the other unions who come out in support of your strike, and then, you know, you go and support them. And then it creates, yeah, it creates these bonds that, you know, aren't really, they can be achieved without it, but it's just so much more bonding. I guess I'm going to use the term bonds a lot, but, and there really isn't a substitute for it. And, you know, and then people also, they get to experience the power that they have as, you know, as labor, right? Like, they realize it's like, oh, wait, no, like, I'm on strike and this company is like, the shit is hitting the fan for them because they don't have us who know how to do our jobs in there doing them, right?

us who know how to do our jobs in there doing them right like you know i was uh at a picket line for uh this other company um a few years back and like the workers there on the line were constantly giving me updates they'd be like yeah man it's wild i heard in there that like you know the managers are trying to do our jobs and like none of what they make is edible and they're throwing it all away and like the machines are breaking like yep and so they're one they're seeing that yes their labor is specific it has value it is necessary and crucial and they are getting that community support and you know there's not a lot of other opportunities for those realizations to happen so yeah and i mean this is something that like i've literally seen this like our teachers union and we talked about this a bit on the show but like

our local teachers union in chicago like got you know they got a reform caucus and they're not perfect but you know they're much better than what was happening before and you know they got a reform caucus and they're not perfect but you know they're much better than what was happening before and you know and that one of the things they do is they they've been on strike a lot of times in the last about deck like decade decade bit over a decade and it changed the city like chicago is a you know was for i mean decades decades and decades this just like interminable machine run like neoliberal hellhole and you know i mean i'm not going to say like chicago is like some kind of like you know like beacon of the left or whatever but like the city is just different after it and it wasn't just the

one i tried they kept they kept going on strike and they kept going on strike and you know you can you can look at the quality of their wins and you can sort of like you know like i mean there's that like i know i mean like i know people who like their wins and you can sort of like, you know, like, I mean, there's not like, I know, I mean, like I know people who like have quibbles with sort of like exactly what happened in the contract negotiations, but like, you know, they went on strike multiple times and they won.

And that really, and you know, and the other thing that happened is the thing you were talking about, right? Is like, suddenly you're at these pickets and like the entire community is showing up, like everyone's showing up with food. Like it changed the city. And, you know, and i think this discusses another thing i think is important here about and what's you know sort of the potential that's being averted is the interesting thing

about this strike wave is that we've had a number you know we've we've had like the whole we had sort of the wildcat teacher strikes in 2017 we've had a couple of a couple of waves of teacher strikes but like most of the strikes that have been happening at public sector unions we haven't had these giant strikes other than basically i mean there's been some right there's there's there's been a lot of strikes in the healthcare sector we haven't had a strike like at this scale in the private sector in you know outside basically like the the teamsters and like the teamsters and like the guild are like the only two big unions on that scale who go on strike like even kind of regularly even that's like that's like a once in like 20 year thing right and so

i don't know like i think i think just sort of the the potential of what's being lost here is enormous if if what happens is that this deal which is like i don't not great when i see it from the initial things although again like we still don't fucking know what's in this deal and we're not going to for like a bit at like at least until they fucking release the thing i don't know yeah i mean obviously you know we'll we'll we'll have to see um you know what's what's in that agreement yeah um you know at least just you know for you know my own views you know, what's in that agreement. Yeah. You know, at least just, you know, for, you know, my own views, you know, it's any, you know, company, you know, that's paying you poverty wages or, you know, there's unsafe work conditions and just seems like, well, on principle, there needs to be a work stoppage.

Like that's, you know, if you're going to treat people that way, that's just the result. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Something that I'm like kind of thinking about right now is like, so like the 2175, I believe it is for part-time workers, you know, that is a significant increase from the 1550. But we're just at the beginning of our five-year contract. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like I feel like, you know,

like it's being viewed as like, oh, well that's like, okay for right now. It's, you know, kind of not, but it's really just not going to be okay in five years when we have to have these contract negotiations again. And because we're not starting out with a solid $25 an hour, we're going to be playing catch up to what is not really okay right now. Like, it's just going to, like, it's like, it's just going to keep happening, you know, by the time we get to 2028, you know, we'll probably get up to $25 an hour maybe. But by that time, you know, who knows what we're actually going to need in order to survive in this economy. Yeah.

So, you know, I feel like that wage is just not, it's not proactive enough for what we're going to need in the coming years. years and you know in there there is stuff about like you know wage increases for like you know however long you've been there and stuff like that but yeah I you know you know like I graduated from high school in like 2008 and I just feel like the my entire life the economy has just been fucking shitty and when they tell me the economy is great my finances are still fucking shitty and you know like this is the one of one of the old 2011 slogans that like well i guess there's also 2008 slogan that like people need to fucking remember is that the g when the bank takes your house gdp goes up right the economic indicators that we have are are you know they're bourgeois economic indicators right like they are they are they are designed to measure how well capital is being extracted from

you yep yep yep yep i definitely know reflection on our actual you know day-to-day lives you know what what our needs are just oh yeah and hey some people made money off of your labor so things are good unless you know you're the laborer yeah and like you know i think i think another thing that like happens a lot is like yeah like you know it is entirely possible that a bunch of people who are you know making like seventy thousand dollars a year are fucking doing great right now and it's like well bully for them like we're fucking not listen yeah yeah yeah and you know and speaking to you know to the you know what does things you know look five years out which you know it seems like you know things just kind of get exponentially

worse. You know, I don't know what, you know, the environment, you know, what our climate's going to be. I don't know what, you know, inflation or food costs, you know, it's going to be. And, you know, so far, you know, I'd need to see the, you know, what the tentative agreement has on that market rate adjustment. And then there's also the cost of living adjustment too which at least what i believe is you know it doesn't kick into like you've been there for five years i guess you just

aren't living for those first five years i don't know it's great that i you know that my utilities and my rent waives my bills for the first five years that i work for ups someone someone someone someone so someone also like go find the statistics on how many people get fired at four years and 11 months. Yeah. That's also when the pension minimum

investment time is five years. That's also something I've thought about. What happens on four years and 11 months? Is that when now we've got a bigger target on my back? It's like already a thorn in their side. They did the thing I said they were going to do where it says UPS will equip in-cab AC

and all large delivery vehicles, sprinter vans, and package cars purchased after January 1st, 2024. Cars are getting two fans and an induction vent in the cargo compartment, which is good, but also not air conditioning. It's not air conditioning and it gets very hot in those trailers.

And yeah, no, it's like, yeah. And all, except all, you know, all things purchased after January 1st, 2024. Yeah. So it's just like. You know, they'll, yeah. It's like they will start purchasing cars again in like 2094 yeah yeah nothing in there about retrofitting those cars well i think i think

cars i think they're well okay i i don't know this is another thing like it's it's unclear to be exactly what a lot of this means because we you know like we we're like we we can't look at the actual contract which is like yeah so this is like we need to i guess also like preface this like this is like we're not doing legal analysis of this this is our speculation based on what we're reading uh this is this none of this constitutes binding legal advice yeah but i don't know yeah yeah hey i just work here uh yeah uh another thing that i'm like noticing um in this contract uh so another big uh uh grievance that was had was the lack of full-time positions and uh so like if you want to get a full-time inside job you know there is a seven to ten year wait list for that right

so this uh this tentative agreement um stipulates that there will be a creation of 7,500 new full-time Teamster jobs at UPS and the fulfillment of 22,500 open positions. But it doesn't specify if that's going to be for inside work or for, you know, more drivers. And, you know, I have epilepsy, so I am not going to be a driver uh that's just doesn't seem ideal for me and yeah i would i would like to see some uh numbers on uh so that wait list is that going down like because that's like what i'm waiting for is to be able to you know snag one of those full-time inside positions but i don't know and like when you think about you know 7500 full-time positions it's also worth to keep in mind that ups employs 340 000 people so it's like yeah wait yeah so that's a two percent yeah it's like yeah it's like two percent and like admittedly like you know 40 of that workforce is already like they're full-time drivers but so

that's like 60 of that is part-timers and you know i'm not going to make anyone do more math math but 7500 for 60 percent of 340 000 people is yes it's not as exciting as just seeing that number by itself yeah right yes it's three percent which is like a joke like and this goes into something you know i've noticed um you know with you know, coworkers, which is always talking about, you know, like, you know, we need more hours and that, you know, that, that is true to a degree, you know, really though, it's like, well, we need more pay. You know, I, you know, I think that's, you know, would be a sign, you know, when it can be, you know, like a really strong union is that, you know, we can even just say, yeah, you know what, maybe people shouldn't be working 70 hour weeks. You know, maybe we

should cap that at 30 with, you know, PT pay that, you know, pays like full time. But of course, you know, we're not there, you know, we need these jobs that can actually provide, you know, definitely not going to knock that, but, you know, we'd definitely like to see that overall shift kind of just, you know, in our culture of, you know, we don't need to work more to have our needs met. I think it's also sort of important to understand about UPS jobs. It's like, you're fucking destroying your body. So especially if you're like, if you're, if you're, if you're one of the people sorting packages, like you are lifting, like you you are lifting thousands of packages a day.

These things can weigh up to 80 fucking pounds. They can weigh up to 150. Oh, 150. Jesus Christ. Never mind. 150 is the other limit. 70 pounds is where you can do team lift. Yeah.

Yeah. You can do team lift. Yeah. Yeah. I know like talking to a feeder driver recently was talking about having a, you know, two of those trailers hooked up and weighing in at something like 17,000 pounds on the scale. Jesus.

Obviously, you know, that's the cabin engine included, I believe. But you know, that's not my world. I'm kind of completely unfamiliar with that side of things, but still,

yeah, it's like a lot of weight you know because we're carrying so many packages every day yeah it's a lot of wear and tear on the body and management's always pushing you to move faster too yeah like i had a uh a worker um who is a feeder driver for another hub and she was telling me that a supervisor there was telling newly hired part-time employees that it's actually safer to work faster instead of slower what yes yeah that makes no fucking sense no fucking sense at all and like one of the reasons they have an incentive to make us work really fast which is that the full-time soups get a parts per hour bonus uh depending on how fast we go

so you know they will harass you into working faster even though you know we're moving these thousands of fucking packages they'll harass us to move faster um so that they get a bonus off of the packages that we handled and moved i mean like just last week in the you know i think it was like mid 90s outside or something you know we're not getting oh do you need water do you need to rest it was oh you're not working fast enough like your packages per hour is too low. It's that kind of constant harassment or maybe sometimes like, I know my supervisor is a little bit more subtle about it versus outright being like, oh, you need to work faster. Because that's the thing is in our contract, there's no kind of productivity quota. We work safe.

We follow the methods. productivity quota you know we work safe we follow the methods that's something i really try and you know really focus on because you know ideally you know i want to you know i would like to be here uh longer um silly enough uh that is for job with terrible conditions but you know also it's a job that has attention and that yeah that's the big thing and it's like i don't you know what's a pension gonna do if you know i'm you know have some kind of you know grave injury from from the job yeah no pension but still yeah you're dead with heat exhaustion like well pension doesn't pay out like yeah it's just it's just yeah it yeah, it's wild. It's wild. Man, I am going to be really excited to see how this, how this vote goes.

Yeah, it's going to be an interesting day at work. Yeah. Yep. Yep. I'm sure that I'll have those people that know that I know about the union come up and talk to me to ask me what I think about it because I'm the only person they know that knows anything about the union because as we talked about earlier union reps just are barely ever there yeah and yeah we'll see we'll see man that's I'm just now really thinking about that 7,500 full-time jobs. 3%.

2% or 3%, depending on the metric that you're looking at. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, not enough. No, no, no. Wild. Wild. And now, yeah, this is, at best, a delayed opportunity for a strike to build those as we talked about earlier those necessary

necessary muscles that need to be exercised and that's at best you know we might have missed it yeah yeah we'll see yeah

that fucking sucks. Yeah. What a curveball to get for the podcast. Well, unless you have anything else you want to talk about. Yeah, I'm going to wrap up this incredibly chaotic episode of It Could Happen Here, in which we discovered the chaos of a not open bargaining process and what that looks like live on air yep yep exciting times but yeah i think uh i think i'm good i feel like i hit all my notes and some that i wasn't even planning on hitting because we had this uh new information so Right? Good Lord.

And I was like, it couldn't have been like an hour earlier so I could have at least read it first. No, no. It's literally in the middle of the record.

Yeah, I'm going to go and we got to look over some information. Bear with us. Oh my gosh. Well, you know, you can join us next for the live analysis of the over 300 page contract

that we got like just the highlights yeah but thank you to both for thank you both for coming on and yeah we can i guess i guess if the strike happens we can talk to you again or maybe also if it doesn't i don't know yeah yeah absolutely absolutely uh thank you for having us on uh yeah i'd love to stay in contact to talk about if we do go on strike or you know if we don't would love i would absolutely be open to a follow-up on that and yeah okay so where can people go if they want to support like the strike or also potentially the rank and file workers who are trying to make sure it happens. Yeah, I would say that a good place to follow or like a good source, I guess, to follow would be to follow the Teamsters for a Democratic Union. Would be to follow the Teamsters for a Democratic Union.

If there is going to be any movement that is in the union that's organized, it's going to be coming from them most likely. So they are the better version, I would say, to follow on that front. And of course, you can still follow the regular Teamsters page and stuff like that to see what's going on. But yeah, yeah, that's going to be weird. I don't know what the TDU line is going to be on this. I was like, we'll see. And, you know, hopefully, you know, if we can strike, obviously, yeah, come out to support your fellow workers.

And, you know, too, we'll also be able to coordinate with rank and file union reps what kind of needs there might be out on the picket line also thank you very much for having us thank you for coming on

this has been Nick and Appen here go on strike don't let your leadership tell you not to go on strike. Simply do the thing and organize so you can do it again. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts

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