It Could Happen Here - Abortion Clinic Escorting

Episode Date: June 7, 2022

We're joined by Tanya, a long time clinic escort, to talk about abortion clinic escorting.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google Search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. welcome to it could happen here it's the show where things fall apart and we put it back together again and there may or may not be enormously loud lawnmowers in the background

uh yeah this is this is this is a podcast also about abolishing lawns although i guess i guess not today it's only about abolishing lawns because i'm extremely annoyed at my neighbors, but... We can do an anti-lawn episode in the near future. Yeah, one day, one day. But it is, on a more serious note, is I have Garrison with me and I have Tanya with me, who is an abortion clinic escort and has been doing this for a very, very long time.

Tanya, thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm really excited to talk with you about this because this is, well, this is something we've been wanting to do for a while because I think not enough people know what this is. So I guess the first thing is, yeah, can you explain to people who aren't familiar with this what clinic escorting is? explain to people who aren't familiar with this what clinic escorting is? Absolutely. So there are a number of volunteer clinic escorts across the country, and many are, they're not necessarily organized nationwide, but many metro areas do have organizations where you can volunteer to be a clinic escort. And what that means is that you are essentially someone who

goes to a clinic that performs abortion services and you stand outside that clinic and you help the patients get into the clinic, hopefully free of harassment from protesters outside, hopefully free of harassment from protesters outside and just ensure that protesters don't block access to the clinic and that the patients are able to get inside, you know, know where they're going and get in safely. Yeah. And that seems like, I don't know, that seems like a really hard job in a couple of ways, but both in the sense that like, there's a bunch of extremely angry and very weird people with really disturbing signs.

Yeah. And very sincerely held beliefs on a different side where they, they, they do want to stop people from going and convince them not to go in. And it is interesting as a clinic escort, you're really, you don't have an opinion. Like I don't have an opinion on whether someone goes in.

Someone can go in, someone cannot go in. It's not, you know, the people who do the clinic escorting are there because we believe that women and their partners should have a choice about what to do. And so if a woman chooses that she doesn't want to go into the clinic, you know, that's fine by me. I'm just there to ensure that she has the choice to go into the clinic and get whatever services she needs, whether it's prenatal care or contraception or abortion services. So it's fascinating because, yeah, there are a lot of people, you know, the protesters on the other side can really run the gamut.

Some of them are very angry and have very interesting signs, but some of them, you know, they also range to those who are just standing there saying the rosary, walking up and down and carrying crucifixes. And, you know, if it was just people saying the rosary and then going, coming, saying the rosary and going, I probably wouldn't do what I do. Because that's neither here nor there for me. It's the people who are, you know, they will try to get in the window of a car when a car pulls up if they happen to have the windows down. a car when a car pulls up if they happen to have the windows down and, you know, get in the, like, put their heads in the car to try to talk to the people or hand them literature. And I've seen some of the literature that, you know, people have shared with us after it's been given to them, you know, and it's, a lot of it is full of misinformation. And, and kind of also, you know, as someone who was raised Catholic and it's coming from people, many of the people who are protesting are Catholic. It's very emotionally manipulative and not factual information on some of them. I remember seeing one once around Christmas time

that was like a whole cartoon about how excited Mary was to be Jesus' mom and how therefore that means that you should not have your pregnancy terminated because you should be more like Mary and be excited to have this child. Yeah, yeah, pretty fascinating. Yeah yeah and i guess that's another thing that that i was wondering about to what extent like so obviously that there's a physical component of this right is okay trying to make sure that people aren't

physically interfering um how much of it also is sort of like providing emotional support to the to the people you're with sure because i mean it's really stressful it it can be i mean the the clinic where i'm an escort is is uh has uh a little bit of a perimeter where uh there's there's a parking lot in between the people where they can actually protest out on the sidewalk, which is public property, obviously, and the actual entrance to the clinic. But there are people who come in off of public transport too, and not necessarily, aren't necessarily coming in a car where they can get sort of beyond where the protesters are to the clinic. And so I actually have a vivid memory. I've been doing this for 16 years. And I have a vivid memory of a woman who came off the bus. She got down off the bus at the bus stop, like, and the protesters really got

up in her face. And one of them in particular was a guy who is, I'm not a small person. I'm about 5'10 and pretty decent size, but he's definitely over six feet tall. And he was just like looming over her. And I had to physically insert myself in between her and him and say, hey, you want to go to the clinic? This is how you get there. You don't have to listen to these people. If you want to talk to them, you can, but, you know, you don't have to. And, you know, and really, you know, they're in such a fragile moment, most of them. Interestingly, that particular individual, come to find out, wasn't even coming for termination services. She was coming to get an ultrasound.

She was having twins, and it was the lowest cost place that she could go to actually find an ultrasound to make sure that her twins were okay. And so, and she even came out afterwards with the ultrasound and, like, shoved it in the guy's face and was like, you know, you know, go take a flying leap. But, um, so, but yeah, I mean, part of it is just showing that there are people who believe that you have the right to make the choice you're making and that we're not judging you. We're not here. Uh know, I think a lot of women in the position of who, who feel that the need to terminate a pregnancy, they feel very judged. It's, it's, it's society is very judgmental. And I think, you know, being there, we have so many people who come up to us and just say, Hey, thanks for being here. Just thanks for being right. It's, it's just helpful to know that someone is here, uh, and, and, and, and believes that I have the right to make this decision and that I'm the best person to make this decision about me and my body and my

family, um, is really, it's, it, it, it makes it that much, it makes it better. And people will come up and tell the most personal stories as well. I've had someone who came up to me once and said, hey, you know, 10 years ago, my wife was pregnant and we had been trying for so long to have a baby. And we found out that there was this massive, you know, genetic defect that was not really compatible with life. And we had, we had, we faced the tough decision about, do we go ahead and terminate this pregnancy and, and try to start again and have it and get pregnant again? Or do we carry this to term knowing that this child isn't going to live for very long and that individual, you know, and, and his wife decided to terminate the existing pregnancy,

knowing that the baby wasn't going to live. And he said, and I, when we went to actually have the abortion, we had to run the gauntlet of all of those people outside. All those people like this telling us how we were killing our baby, a wanted baby, you know, that we were killing our child and we were murderers and all of that. And so he was just like, just thank you for being here. of that. And so he was just like, just thank you for being here. Thank you for being here and showing, because you don't know what's going on in the lives of all of these people who are coming in here and they don't know what's going on. And so, and he said, I really wish we had had someone like, you know, you standing here to let us know that it was okay, you know, in that moment of time to do this. So, yeah, it's interesting.

People will tell very, very personal stories. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me as the fire and dare enter? Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you.

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or wherever you get your podcast. The next thing I was wondering is about how this has changed over time. I mean, yeah, you've been in this for like longer than I've been like very seriously a conscious person. Indeed. Yeah, so i'm wondering what what has it been like how how has this changed over the past sort of like decade and a half and has there been a change like very very recently as in in in the sort of like as as row looks like it's dying and what do you

think that's going to mean going forward for this yeah um so yes it has changed over time um and and yes it's changed very recently as well um what i what i, what I can say, you know, when I first started doing this, it was really just kind of, you know, the same hand and it still is the same handful of usual suspects who show up at least at the clinic I, I, uh, escort at. Um, uh, but it was really, it was, it was a small handful and, uh, it was the same people every week, week, week, week after week after week. And, you know, on the clinic escort side, you know, we're volunteers. So, you know, we need people to come and be sort of energized. And so, you know, we have a cadre of people who've been doing it. Yes, I've been doing it for 16 years, but there's a woman that I escort with,

there are several women that I escort with who've been doing it decades longer than I, right. And yeah, I mean, really amazing, really amazing women and, uh, who probably have even more interesting stories than I do. Uh, but you know, in the, you know, we, and we would see after, after something happened, like when George Tiller was murdered, we had an influx of volunteers who came in, people who were angry and said, you know, I was so upset and I realized I needed to do something about it. Obviously, the murder of George Taylor was a tragedy, but we've had things like that that have energized people and brought them in to actually doing clinic escorting. And there's been a little bit of a pickup recently in the number of escorts, but it's nothing like the pickup that I think I've seen in terms of antis and protesters. And it's, you know, and it's important because, you know, if you really believe that people should have the right to bodily autonomy and the right to make this choice, that requires people to actually make it happen for them. And there are a lot of people trying to make it not happen. And I actually, I was actually escorting because the clinic exports, they, you know, we actually change off. We have a schedule. We don't all go every week, at least at the clinic where I am, because, you know, we also want to have our own lives and

not just be standing at this clinic every weekend. But I was escorting the weekend after Ruth Bader Ginsburg died. And I was standing by myself kind of at one end while another person went and just, of it went in well another person went and just i think picked up a sign or took a bathroom break or something and one of the newer antis um stood across from me and yelled at me that ruth bader ginsburg was was burning in hell now and that if i didn't repent, you know, that the same thing would happen to me. And that that's just God's plan that, you know, people who, who believe in, in killing babies just are going to rot in hell for eternity. And, and so that was an interesting, you know, and it was the first time, you know, most of the time they don't really try to engage us in conversation, but it was the first time someone was really just saying super, super like sort of inflammatory stuff to me as an personally, as an escort. We certainly had heard, you know, they'll, they'll say things to patients

where they say, you know, don't go in there. It's not safe. Be a good mom to your baby and that kind of stuff, which is also, you know, obviously incredibly emotionally abusive to women going through what they're going through when they feel that they have no better choice than determining a pregnancy. But yeah, the actual sort of, the vitriol towards the escorts is increasing. And I would say around the time Ruth Bader Ginsburg died, we also have seen an enormous uptick in the number of protesters outside the clinic each week, as well as the length of time that they will stay. Um, they, they've

actually about doubled the length of time that they normally stay. Um, and so, you know, it's, it's been a challenge. It's been a challenge for us, um, on the escorting side to actually cover the ships because, you know, we are, again, we're all volunteers who have lives and want to live our lives. You know, we're women who are mothers, grandmothers, men who are, you know, fathers, grandfathers who just, you know, want to do something good and help out. And, you know, more and more of the time we were having to stay later, come earlier, stay later, to ensure that there's someone there, that there's a friendly or at least protective presence for the women coming into the club. Have they gotten more violent?

Have they gotten more violent? is far enough away, you know, across a parking lot from the clinic that, you know, that the physical alter, you know, interactions are relatively rare. I'm sure, you know, that would really be better, a question better placed to a clinic escort who's on a clinic, at a clinic where, you know, the entrance to the clinic is right on a public sidewalk, right. Where I think, you know, they definitely do have significantly more physical interactions. Um, I guess it's hard to say, you know, it depends on how you define that. Is it there for a long time? The one of the signs outside the clinic was a photo of of the doctor who provided the termination services, a photo of him and his name. And it said, retire this person, you know, his name and the retire abortionists and then his name.

And that that showed up, I think, as I vaguely recall, around the time George Taylor was was murdered. So what does that mean? Right. So that's that's violent in and of itself. It's, it's a suggestion there. Um, you know, I won't pretend that it's not, you know, it doesn't sometimes go through my head especially like, you know, a certain times of year when we're bundled up and it's cold, you know, someone could come up behind me and I, you know, wouldn't necessarily always hear them or see them. And so it is, it's, it, you know, there's definitely always a, an undercurrent and a feeling of, you know, something could escalate. We're fortunate at my clinic that it hasn't too much recently. But, you know, I would say, you know, again, as Ro is dying, you know, they're getting more bold. They're not supposed to trespass. They're not supposed to come on into the parking lot. not supposed to trespass. They're not supposed to come on into the parking lot. And yet there are some who are really trying to test that boundary now who will go to their car, not in the clinic

parking lot, and then as they leave, drive into the parking lot and around by the clinic just to sort of, um, intimidate people and, and, and to make the escorts concerned because obviously, you know, when we're on foot, it's very hard, uh, to get physically between them and, and something when they're, when they're driving. Um, and so, yeah, it's, it's, there's definitely an escalation in that front and an escalation in, in the rhetoric. You know, there are more, I would say kind of pointed signs that, that are used to try to intimidate the women into not going into the clinic. There was actually, there's a sign that had been used for, that actually has been used for a little bit longer, but it basically, it had the names of two women who, according to the antis, had died under the care of the services of the doctor at our clinic, which in the end, when I actually did my own research, wasn't true. One, one just very unfortunately had an allergic reaction to the anesthetic, which is not something

you know, unless you've been under anesthesia. And the other, and it wasn't, and neither of them was it actually the provider at our clinic, who was performing the service at the time those individuals died. But it said, you know, dead. And it had these two women's names and 150,000 babies. And which is a little bit inflammatory. inflammatory and then it's and also misleading when you think about it because you know the maternal mortality rate in the united states is like over 23 women per hundred thousand so i was like well even if this is accurate even if this sign was accurate which it's not you know two women out of 150 000 that's way safer than actually for a pregnancy. Um, and you know, so it's those kinds of things. It's, it's the mind games and, and, you know, as someone who, uh, you know, has seen

this for a while, like, you know, to me, the, the mind game is part of the violence, even though it's not physical. It's really, you know, trying to make people feel ashamed and feel that they shouldn't come out. And I think that, you know, as we're looking at Roe possibly being overturned, you know, you're suddenly seeing all of these people coming out of the woodwork because, you know, so many women in this country actually do abort a pregnancy at some point in time, do terminate a pregnancy. And yet it's not something anyone talks about because it's still because of the dialogue in this country and because of the way it is portrayed, it is something that most people, you know, don't want to be public about, not just because of the, you know, politics of it,

but because, you know, there are people who are made to feel ashamed. And as opposed to, you know, this, this was the right choice for me at this point in time. And maybe under different circumstances, it might've been a different choice. But yeah. So I think it's hard to say whether violence has increased because it's always had that undercurrent. I mean, ever since I've been starting, ever since I started doing it.

Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows presented by iHeart and Dare Enter. Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you.

Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows. As part of My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Prenti. And I'm Jimei Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, the early career podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. Let's Talk Offline, the early career podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

One of the most exciting things about having your first real job is that first real paycheck. You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions like, how should I be investing this money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k? Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud, but I'm like, every single year you need to be asking for a raise of somewhere between 10 to 15%. I'm not saying you're going to get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting

eight, that is actually a true raise. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds

and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. This is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs

and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything, from music and pop culture, to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, El Te Caliente and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German,

where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One of the things, we've talked to a few other people we talked to someone who was doing security for for security plans for clinics and one of the things they were talking about was like a shift in the kinds of people who were getting involved in these clinics and i'm wondering in these clinic protests like i wonder have have you have you seen like i don't know they were talking about like there'd been specifically fascist groups getting involved and i was wondering if like the kinds of people who you've seen have been like that or like you know in terms of the new people who are getting involved are they

closer to like the the kinds of people you usually see is see outside these clinics Like the kinds of people you usually see outside these clinics? So that's actually an interesting point that I hadn't thought too much about. Catholic folks who are, you know, coming and saying the rosary, you know, standing there with the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary, like in front of the clinic. And, and, and, you know, some could be pushy. But I think it is accurate to say there is actually a younger element of anti-abortion protester or anti-choice, really, because in the end, it's really about the choice, not... And so I think, yes, I'm seeing younger and younger people. And it's interesting that you mentioned that because a lot of them are men. They're young, almost entirely white. There is a handful of people of color, but they tend to come very, very rarely. very, very rarely. And, you know, the, the, it's interesting. So it was largely older white men and women previously. And now I would say there are many more younger men getting involved, a few

women, but when, for most of the young, and when I say i would say you know well well for the for the clinic i met i would say anyone under probably the age of 40 but you know also um you know really when when you know i'm even under the age of 30 or 25 it's with the exception of one, it's men. It is white men. And yeah, so that's interesting. I hadn't, it's quite possible. Certainly there are some that, but, you know, we as clinic escorts are not actually engaging these individuals in conversation. That's not something that, you know, in fact, we have to sign pledges that we're, you know, at least for the, for the organization that we volunteer with, that we're not going to engage in conversation with them, that we're not, you know, because no one, you know,

and I guess know, sort of interaction. So we actually, we don't, and we actively don't because we just, you know, it's not worth it. We're there. The point of being there is not to try to get to know the anti-choice demonstrators. It's not to try to change their minds. It's just to ensure that the women who have made their decision are able to freely access the healthcare services that they have made the decision to access. decision to access yeah that makes a lot of sense that that's it definitely seems like the like it definitely seems like the best strategy for this and seems like something that like other people could learn from as like a tactic to deal with this kind of stuff because yeah engaging with those people doesn't i i have limited experience with this but they showed up to my well okay they showed up to my high school but then they also showed up to my college and we just like they were trying to like get news footage and so we wound up just like sitting down in front of the like just sitting

down in front of their sign so people couldn't see them and then just like refusing to talk to them and that i think worked a lot better than like i don't know a lot of this other stuff that i've seen because yeah like you're definitely right it's like yeah like you're not gonna those people like yeah like there's no way you're gonna change the mind of like someone who's holding a sign there and i guess that's also another thing that that that is interesting about this which is yeah like it's like your emphasis on it's not about the ideological debate as much as it is like it's not about like you going to confront these people it's about making sure that the people who need these services are

safe and are able to do it and that that seems like a very powerful way to sort of like that seems like a very powerful way to sort of like bypass this, like, I don't know, bypass this weird, like discourse circuit that everyone gets in. Yeah. I mean, I think,

you know what I, what I can tell you, I mean, listen, I would love to sleep in on my Saturday morning. Yeah. I don't, I don't like to get up and give up,

you know, you know, two to four hours of my Saturday, you know, in the freezing rain or the, you know, wind and cold or on a really hot summer day and get up out of bed and do that. But, you know, on those, you know, there are cold winter mornings. I'm like, oh, gosh, it's early. That alarm's awfully early and it's really cold outside. But I always just in my mind, the thing that I tell myself is you never know who's coming in today who just needs to see you and just needs to see someone there to, you know, whether it's to give her the direction because she's so distraught after having to drive or walk by a number of protesters telling her how she's, you know,

going to regret her decision and how she's a terrible human being and she's a killer and she's a this, she's a slut, she's a whore. Whatever, you know, whatever the message that someone in that situation gets by walking past those protesters. You know, I never know who needs to just see me there. And whether it's that she just needs directions because she's so distraught after going through, you know, running that gauntlet that she's kind of lost her bearings. And she's like, OK, which door do I need to go in? How do I do this? Or actually just needs to see, you know, a friendly face or, you know, have someone tell her that it's okay to not listen to what they have to say to her. And it's okay to not internalize that, which, you know, I think is probably very, very hard when you're already in a somewhat emotionally fraught state.

I guess, how could people who want to start escorting, what would be the best ways that they could go about doing that or learning more information about how to do it and the different places that allow it? And well, not allowed, but like the different places where different groups that help facilitate this type of work? Yeah. So, I mean, I think there isn't necessarily that I'm aware of one sort of national site, but I think a lot of individual sort of local providers have clinic escorts. I know that if you most, like most, if not many Planned Parenthoods will have, you know, a clinic escort program. And so I think, you know, sometimes your best bet may be just to Google, you know, clinic escort in my area or contact a provider

in your area to say, hey, how do I get involved? Because I, you know, at least in my area where I live, there is one that sort of covers the area, but it is by no means nationwide. And there definitely are sort of localized groups that do it so i think it may be just a matter of reaching you know googling uh the clinic exports or reaching out to your local planned parenthood or if there's another um abortion provider in your community that isn't planned parenthood because there are still uh many that are not planned parenth Parenthood that they may know. And I guess my other thing is, so for people who, for whatever reason,

can't do escorting but want to help support, I mean, basically people who want to support the providers and the people who need these services, what would you recommend that they do? So there are also, similarly to those groups, Is like, yeah, what would you recommend that they do? But you can look up the abortion fund in your area. And that is a, you know, an organization that will actually take donations from individuals who want to help and provide, you know, provide financial support to women who are seeking abortion, whether it's because they have to travel out of state or to somewhere even within their state, but not where they live in order to actually obtain an abortion. And, you know, because many women who are seeking termination services can't always pay for them, you know, especially if they're publicly insured, you know, a lot of public insurance, you know, federal dollars cannot be spent on abortion services. And so they can also help pay for the abortion for those individuals. If you, it's a little bit tougher now that we're

in, you know, sort of in the midst of a coronavirus pandemic, there are some organizations that also, if you live in an area that, where there are providers and there are people potentially traveling from out of state, especially if you're in an area where there is a provider who provides, you know, what they call, you know, later term services for people who, you know, find out that there's a major genetic abnormality along far into the pregnancy or whatever, and they need to terminate their pregnancy. normality long, far into the pregnancy or whatever, and they need to terminate their pregnancy, you know, there are organizations that will actually help you volunteer to house them or provide even transportation services to and from appointments if you so choose. But then, you know,

there's also all of the sort of national, if you're looking to kind of get more, you know, of the sort of national, if you're looking to kind of get more, you know, involved at the sort of overarching national legal level, certainly there are a number of organizations, whether it's, you know, the Planned Parenthood Federation or NARAL or any of those organizations that you could certainly donate to as well. Yeah, we will put some of the links in the episode description. and i'm sure that there are many things i forgot but those are the ones that jump to mind right now people listening to this please like go help in whatever way you can because like if like if abortion services continue to be a thing where them existing is a small number of volunteers, they're not going to. So, yeah, please, please do that.

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