It Could Happen Here - Amos Immigration Journey Part 1

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

Amos, one of the migrants detained in Open Air Detention Sites, shares the story of his journey to the USA and his time in detention. You can donate to Amos via Venmo at https://venmo.com/u/fueguitosdelanoche, please indicate "For Amos" in your notes. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech, brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking música, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Calls on Media. Call Zone Media it's getting worse and worse but um we're able to connect with Amos who is one of the migrants who has spent time in outdoor detention sadly and then in indoor detention as you'll hear and I really wanted to sort of refocus this episode on sharing Amos's story because I think as I've said countless times right that if we don't send to migrants and are reporting about migration then we're doing it wrong and so you will hear introductions from Dave and you will hear introductions from Emmett and you'll hear a little bit from them next episode about how we're building the yachts. But we'll bring you that episode another time because I wanted this episode to be mostly about Amos's migration journey. Hello, everybody. It's me, James. I am hosting It Could Happen Here Today again, and I'm joined by

my friends Amos and Emmett, and potentially later our friend David. We're going to talk today again about the situation in Hillicumba. Amos is one of the people who was detained in the outdoor detention sites, and he's going to explain some of his experience. And then Emmett is someone who has been working with a group of people including myself to build shelters for migrants to build slightly more permanent slightly more windproof shelters um unfortunately border patrol has taken upon themselves to instruct migrants to destroy those shelters and so we're going to talk about how we built them what we learned when we're building them and unfortunately the fact that

they have been destroyed. So I'm going to ask my three guests to introduce themselves. David is here now. So we'll start with you, Amos, and then Emmett, and then David, just tell us who you are and anything you think is relevant about yourselves, I guess. Thank you for the invite. I appreciate the opportunity to add whatever I can to this very important subject. I happen to be, I call myself an accidental illegal immigrant if you want to put it that way. Due to some family circumstances I found myself following the new migratory road that has taken me through, I lost count, 10 or 12 countries, starting from North Africa all the way to the border with the United States.

So that's me. And I would love nothing more but to add to this conversation. Thank you, Amos. Hi, my name is Emmett. I am a volunteer with Borderlands Relief Collective. And then David,

would you like to finish up by introducing yourself? Hi, my name is David. I'm a volunteer with Borderlands Relief Collective as well as Detention Resistance. I do water drops, and I've also been helping out as a volunteer in the Border Patrol open-air detention sites, doing work as a medic and helping out building these shelters.

Great. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much, everyone. So I think everyone will be interested in hearing Amos' story. So as far as you're comfortable sharing, Amos, and there's no need to share anything that you're not comfortable with or don't want to share, can you tell us about your journey from North Africa to the United States? And I think we'd be particularly interested in

how people are finding out about these, obviously these big gaps in the wall that are in Hukumba and how people are ending up there from all over the world now. Right. Well, buckle up. It's a long journey, James. It's a long one. So for me personally, it started with sort of

an accidental separation from my family, my wife and kids, for reasons, proportionate reasons, had to go back to the United States, and I was denied the visa to join them. They United States, and I was denied a visa to join them.

They went initially to mourn the loss of a brother-in-law. And unfortunately, I was not able to get there by obtaining a visa to do so. So I spent six, seven months arguing with the embassy was not given uh any legal reasoning for why my visa was denied i've lived in the united states for over 16 years i've had a clean criminal record with one uh arrest and. And it was part of a protest that really happened in Los Angeles and we were released right away. And basically, I left in 2015 with, I'd like to think, clean hands, no issues.

And then going back to Tunisia, where I was with my new family. Anyhow, so basically basically I was denied visa. I really wanted to do, I've never done anything illegal in my life. I wanted to do the legal route, following what's been always told, like, you know, follow the legal route. Don't come illegally. So that was not even a question in my mind. You know, the wife is American, the kids are American.

I mean, it shouldn't be an issue. But I really was confronted with, I mean, I can safely say by now it's bias. It's got to be some racism just by deduction, really. Because when you run out of reasoning uh you have to start making these sad and you know sad conclusions so yeah so basically you know again that was uh that took me on a long and painful depression and anxiety and a cocktail of mental health issues that i'm still actually dealing with right now. And it took my kids,

my two kids, my beautiful kids through therapy. And they're still going through therapy. My wife is going through therapy. I'm going through therapy. And it took, it blew apart this family. We're still trying to figure out why so much,

you know, nothing can define it, but hate really, there's no other way of putting it. So, and again, just the discussion with my friends in America has been very difficult because they have no understanding or concept of what, you know, the diplomatic corps is doing and what is the, these embassies are doing

because there is no, there is the these embassies are doing because there is no there is no access to them by Americans it's just usually foreigners who do and that really creates like this black hole of tax money going to these embassies and then what they're doing

is just with a stroke of a pen yes or no no explanation. You can't sue. You can't appeal. You can't do it. It's absolute power. And then, you know, I'm mentioning this, the embassies, because through my journey, through this long and painful journey, I've met time and time again other fellow immigrants who, again, tried to go through the legal route, were denied with no reason,

with no written reason, no valid reason. So again, this discussion on and off again among American citizens as to why people are showing up on the border. Well, I mean, at least in part, what I see is no accountability whatsoever to the embassies. Like time and time again, you have these embassies denying people who are trying to do it the right way, trying to do it, they either have family or work or whatever, and they're denied time and time again.

And then you have, you know, and the hundreds of thousands going through that process. And of course they try, they try, and then eventually they have no choice. So I'm not saying this is the only explanation, but it's a big part of it. I've spoken for people who are crossing and who are on the way from anywhere from Brazil to Colombia to Ecuador to Panama to N, to Guatemala, to Belize and Mexico. All across, I've come across so many people. And, you know, at least, I mean, my little humble math, I would say 50% to 60% have tried through embassies.

But, unfortunately, you know, they just turned down. So this is an issue that is not talked about. This is an issue. They really get away scot-free. I mean, they really don't. There's zero accountability. I mean, they are gods. I mean, the ambassador has zero accountability.

I mean, he is absolutely, he has all the power and no accountability. I mean, rarely you see ambassador being recalled by congress rarely you see an ambassador being questioned hey why are these uh visa demands being the client why what are you doing about it all that stuff you know so so this is this is some of the stuff i want to add to the conversation because nobody has ever mentioned this nobody talks about this yeah so uh yeah it's very important i think your experience is it's far from unique as you've said right i have seen hundreds of people carrying visa rejection letters come across the southern border they've shown them to me right they are people who have been victims of some of the worst things that can happen to human beings, and they've survived them.

And we've still refused to give these people a safe place, so they've had to take their journey in a more dangerous way. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough.

So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh.

And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with.

His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story,

as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now,

and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives.

I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's the one with the green guy on it. the green guy on it. I mean, I didn't see a single brown person at the embassy. It's all right. Again, I hope you guys don't feel like I'm being too... I'm just being honest because I see it and I'm up to date on what people are talking about and all the discussions. I'm up to date on what people are talking about and all the discussions. And I see it like, you know, almost at the level of a right-wing supremacy style.

Like, you know, I mean, you feel it. You feel it. It's there. You have to be a quote-unquote brown person or a minority person to feel it. I don't expect others to understand it, but we feel it. And this is a discussion I've had in detention with a lot of the fellow detainees. There is that sense. There is a sense that

we're being looked down at, not on our merits, but on a little bit of assumptions because of where you're from. Assumptions. Like, you go in and it's already baked. It's already baked. And this is me. I've had a visa from the U.S. for 16 years. I mean, it should be a slam dunk, you know. So my two kids are American. My wife is American. We are, until today, are so confused as to why

the denials happen. I mean, I've called Congress members and David was with me today when I was at the Congress member shift, Adam Schiff, in Burbank, California. And we, you know, even they don't have an answer as to why the denial happened. And, you know, I mean, to close my personal issue, James, it's interesting because I was told that perhaps you were illegally in the United States between 2013, 2015. But they can't say for sure that was the reason. But in detention, when they did all the research on me, none of that existed. None of that. There's none of that. They released me because they have nothing against me.

Nothing. And this is the USCIS. This is the immigration service. Not the embassy coming up with some of these bogus ideas. So again, it's a mess. And I feel like

these embassies need to be looked into more because the border patrol ends up feeling the blunt of all this. But where does it start? Where is the source? It but where does it start where is the source it's always the question of where is the source where the source is yes there's economic issues there is there is there is uh physical abuse there's all kind of stuff but then also there's tax dollars being spent in the billions in the billions hundreds of billions on these diplomatic

cores i mean to be fair my journey was not was not as difficult as many, many, many, many, many stories that I've heard. Heartwarming. I mean, really heartbreaking stories. My journey really, you know, I'm somewhat of a sophisticated life in the sense that, you know, I spent a lot of time. Again, most of the time that we wasted was waiting on the embassy because they kept on dragging and dragging their feet, six, seven months waiting while my kids are crying on the phone. And we don't have the income to be able to have them come back to Tunisia,

where I was. So anyhow, so yeah, it started by researching, researching, reading a lot of articles, researching. As far as North Africa, the route that is being used right now, mostly by a lot of Mauritanians and West Africans, goes through Turkey. And then from Turkey, they're going to Nicaragua because Nicaragua, Managua, the capital of Nicaragua, they have allowed for visa on arrival. And then from Managua, there is literally almost like travel companies doing packages for upwards to $6,000, $7,000 from there to – and then $6,000, $7,000 from Nicaragua, but before Nicaragua, there's at least $3,000, $4,000. So I'm told by, I think, yeah,

the four Mauritanians that were detained, I'm told about $10,000, which comes down to their local currency, about 45,000 of their local currency, which is a lot. I mean, a lot. So, like I said, so they managed to get the flights to Nicaragua. Managua has visa on arrival for 30 days for North Africans. And then from there, you got literally their journey through, I don't know, coyotes, whatever you want to call them, facilitators, whatever,

well-established with buses through El Salvador, through Honduras, Honduras, El Salvador, Guatemala, and then through Mexico. So that's the route that's been upwards of 6,000, 7,000 Mauritanians and West Africans as far as the last articles that I've read have taken that route. So I looked into it. I couldn't afford it, to be honest with you. I was sending money to my kids and wife because she had to be on welfare. She just arrived there, and she had to get the kids to school, and there's a lot of struggle. So I had to kind of try to help with that.

On the same time, I was waiting on the embassy, and the wife was calling them to see if, can we expedite? Can we do this? Can we do this? But they were literally rude and treated her like a second-class citizen. I don't know why. We still can't figure that out. we still can't figure that out anyhow so another route

right now which is a difficult route is through Brazil because Brazil has I don't know if you guys know I think they do that for Americans too so Brazil has sort of I don't know the word but equivalency that means if you impose a visa on Brazil, Brazilians will

impose a visa on you. They do that to Americans too. So, you know, where I'm from, they don't have a visa for Brazilians. So a lot of Africans can go to Brazil and from Brazil take

the route all the way. So David mentioned the Amazon Strait where they cross the jungle from Colombia to Panama and so on and so forth. That is... Darien Gadd. I mean, yes, the famous Darien Gadd. That is, to me, personally, man, it gives me chills

because two or three guys, one of them did it on his own with Google Maps, man. I don't know how the hell he did it. I have no clue how he did it. I was listening and trying to understand him. It was just heartbreaking, the suffering. But yeah, through Brazil and then and then keep on going that way. That's another route. For me. Again, I booked flights, I didn't go through that trouble, to be fair. But I've had some issues

with the users because North Africans don't get a lot of visa access around Latin America. We don't have a lot of embassies there. We don't have a lot of trade. We don't have a lot of commerce between our countries. So it's kind of an unknown commodity in the sense that everything is new. For me, I was able to get a visa to Colombia. I'm very grateful to choose Colombia because it's affordable. It's been a good experience for myself to get closer and at the same time figure out

the lay of the land and understand where I'm going. I'm grateful for that. From there, my goal was to get a visa to Mexico. Most of my American friends are still confused as to why I would need a Mexican visa. That's a whole other discussion. And then the Mexican visa has become extremely difficult, almost as difficult as the American visa because of pressure from the United States to stop the flow. So, again, we end up making it very difficult for people who want to legitimately do this so finding an appointment for a mexican uh embassy then you find out which embassy of mexico has

the points was available some of them don't have ever some of them have them two years from now some of them have them you know uh a particular visa, but not the other. Anyhow, so for me, it was Colombia. And then I found an appointment for a Mexican visa in Belize. But unfortunately, I ended up going from Colombia to Panama to Nicaragua to Guatemala, and then Belize, because Belize has not a lot of flights from Latin America. And then when I got to Guatemala, all the previous countries allowed me to transit without a problem.

But Guatemala decided to put me in a detention for almost 40 hours and then wanted to return me back to the original country. Because they, yeah, so I'm like, my plane departs in a few hours. I'm going to Belize. Why are you doing this? Please. I don't need a visa to Guatemala. I'm not going to Guatemala.

Nothing. No discussion. They threw me in there. Cockro name it the whole enchilada i mean no food no water no nothing i mean you know it's just uh sad very sad very sad very sad that was a really bad and then so i was sent back to panama then from panama to colombia and then colombia they was going to send me back to North Africa so it was going to be a really mess so I had to use some of my customer service skills that I've learned

through the years to wiggle myself where I last minute was able to help some friends buy a ticket to like you know in the midnight hour really they were going to send me so I bought a ticket to Ecuador where I had the visa to like, you know, in the midnight hour, really, they were going to send me. So I bought a ticket to Ecuador where I had the visa for 90 days.

So I was able to get out of that mess, stay in Ecuador for a couple of weeks, and then try to get to Belize again. And the next time I was successful in going to Belize through Panama and then Nicaragua, then straight to Belize, avoiding Guatemala. And in Belize, I was there for a couple of weeks. And then I was able to get a visa to Mexico, thank God. And there was a lot of Russians. There was a lot of Turks. There was a lot of, no, no, no Turks, no.

Russians and a lot of East Europeans trying to get a visa there too for Mexico. And basically, yeah, from there, it was the journey of taking a bus from Belize to Cancun Cancun to Monterrey Monterrey to Cabo I found a job a volunteering job in Porto Escondido I'm a yoga practitioner and I found a yoga retreat there to try to help with my mental health and all that stuff so yeah that's good uh yeah so and they're doing a great job it's in the middle of the wilderness they really present you know working on natural preservation and and in beautiful jobs they're doing there and then from there uh cabo san lucas cabo San Lucas, I volunteered at a hotel to kind of be able to eat and sleep. And then from there, Tijuana. And then at Tijuana, I met someone earlier in Cancun, a Colombian,

who was, all the time I was in Mexico, I was trying to do the app, the CPB1 app. Yeah. And how was your experience with that? Horrible. Absolutely horrible. Absolutely horrible. Absolutely horrible. I mean, it's just basically useless.

It's useless. And I met people who have been there for two months on the app, and it didn't work. Explain to me what didn't work about it. Like, did it log you out? I wish I can send you a screen. I have screenshots that I can send you so you can understand. So it tells you, so you sign up, you put your information, your passport and all that stuff.

And then basically what you're doing is you're in the queue and there's like a lottery system where they see how long you've been waiting, how old are you where you're from it's like a lottery system that randomly selects people so but again you know out of a close to 100 people in my detention cell you know room everybody's saying we all tried and none of them you know got an appointment i mean everybody wants an appointment i mean who's in the right who's in the right in his right mind would choose to forego an appointment and go do throughout that trouble so yeah and if we do a little bit of math that eventually at some point

i spoke to the supervisor of the border patrol detention center uh and he told me there's 1800 people at any given point in that place so out of 1800 people and if my cell there was about 6 cells or something or more than that, much more 6 cells and then 4 blocks I think so yeah yeah I mean if

out of 100 then you have nobody was able to use the app then what's to tell out tell a lot of the 1800, maybe 99%. I mean, all of them really, because if they did have appointment, yeah. If they had appointments, they would have been not in there. Right. I mean, that's, that's the key.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, I mean, it's just a flawed system. I was telling my wife yesterday, that's like a lipstick on a pig because you're just trying to make it look like you're doing something. But it's really like there's nothing being done about it.

Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex Elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible.

Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com.

On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian.

Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show.

I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. Put the green guy on it.

And anyhow, so I'm still dazed and confused. I mean, I'm trying to understand the situation. So I literally, I was the last one to get in. And literally, I'm sitting there and I'm standing there at the border itself, at the wall. And I'm like, what's going on? Where is the border patrol? Where is the port of at the at the wall and i'm like what's going on where is the border patrol where is the port of entry what is this i'm like confused after finding himself unable to make an appointment through cbp1 amos decided to make his way to jocumba like thousands of other migrants and i think it's worth pointing out here that nothing that he has done up to this point, it's breaking any laws, right?

It's not illegal to drive around in Mexico. It's not illegal to approach the border from the south. All of this stuff is the legal way to move around. No crimes have been committed. And it is, of course, legal to cross the border and present yourself for asylum immediately upon doing so, even to cross between ports of entry. It's at the discretion of the administration or the prosecutors to charge for for that crossing uh but that is a legal means

to claim asylum and so we'll let amos pick up again here as he takes his first steps into united states the first thing i see is i'm pretty sure that there's some Fox News stuff because they were so aggressive, the camera and a brand-new Jeep, and they were like, hey, cool, cool, cool, shoot. And then, you know, ladies and dudes and everybody was running, and they were running after them to shoot them with a camera. I mean, that's what I mean. Yeah. And you can tell there is malicious intent behind what they're doing.

It was not like trying to be sort of neutral or anything. They were just, you know, anyhow. So I'm looking for a border patrol. I'm trying to say, hey, I'm filing for asylum. Where are you? What's going on? Nothing. There's nobody.

So I'm just walking around with around the wall. I call my wife. I call some friends. Thank God I still had signal. And then, yeah, I mean, you know, the first border patrolman that I saw, he was pissed off. He said, F you, F you, F you this, move out of my way. Fine. Cool.

I told him whatever I said. If it didn't like, I said, I'm sorry. And then I moved on and nobody's interested even to talk. So, and then I moved closer, closer to the crowd.

And I don't know if that's when I saw David, but it was about almost, almost, almost. Yeah. And even when I saw David initially, but then I kept going to do, to have an idea of the whole campaign camp and the whole,

like understand what's the dynamics. I saw some national guardsmen. I saw some DHS police and I saw some border patrolmen. It's like a whole mix of people. And I think, I think there was, uh, park rangers. I'm not mistaken yeah yeah yeah so BLM rangers yeah so so it's a whole huge mix of people um and right away my my survivor instincts kind of you know I I saw David and I saw tools and my eyes opened up because you know I worked in I built my farm from scratch in North Africa and I have my tools are everything to me so anyhow so I'm glad I did see that that that familiar site and I appreciate that but you but you David and Cesar you guys were terrific and um yeah I mean nobody spoke English nobody spoke English. Nobody spoke English. Nobody.

Yeah. And everybody's being treated like, I mean, I told one border patrolman, I have cows, I have sheep. I treat them better than the way you treat these guys. I really do. I truly do. And they didn't like that kind of talk. But anyhow, so, yeah, I mean, it got really cold, I mean, fairly quickly.

And right away, David and Cesar, thank God, had some tools, and we started, you know, working on getting some tents up and running. And, I mean, they did most of the work, really. I was just there helping. So, and it was, dude, my heart was really pain, giving me a lot of pain. Because in my mind, I had my boy and my girl in my mind. And I'm just trying to get to them. But I seen these kids, man.

That was horrific, man. That was not right. That was not right in that cold. It was just not right. And I'm telling you you it's still in my mind right now i mean i'm not gonna let you it's it's it's just uh it's embedded you know yeah it affects all of us like i was there last night and there was a little baby there and i couldn't sleep coming home you know like and i mean you know geez dude like you know the thing is this you know okay again i told david uh it's not a question of

left or right the question is so i get it i i spoke to barshap border patrolman again i couldn't sleep at night i basically kept on going after david and caesar left i tried to sleep i couldn't sleep i called my kids they sleep at 8 40 or 8 30 so i spoke to them and then they were asleep and then i got up and i kept walking around some people had a lot of wood some people didn't have enough wood so and some people didn't want me to take some of their wood i had to go pick up some wood and try to look you know make sure everybody's fire is up and running and uh and then you know when everybody had the fire and everybody kind of somewhat settled in i figured hey let me talk i'm up let me talk to this border patrolman i spoke to the first one he was kind of you know not yeah didn't want to talk but still said a few

things yeah but then another one originally from san diego cool guy really cool guy he gave me the picture I mean look listen I mean you know we're here to work and it's stressful it's a lot we're here we try and do the best we can it's not our fault and it's not you know I mean you know we're you know and he told me listen you can go back to Tijuana or you can go in the United States or do whatever you want but if I pick you up outside of this area, you're going straight to deportation. That's the bottom line. But if you stay here, you'll get to be picked up and processed and you'll have a chance to file for your asylum.

So again, excellent information with the exception of even they don't know the process because you don't get to file for asylum in detention. In detention, they release you on your reconnaissance, and then later on you fight for asylum. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and that's a misconception because everybody is saying,

everybody that I spoke to initially said, yeah, you can fight for asylum right in here, but it's not true. So, but anyhow, so, and then I spoke to a couple of National Guardsmen, a couple of kids in their early 20s from New York. And, I mean, you know, just a couple of kids. We started talking about hunting. We started talking about, you know, fishing and stuff like that. And they were, you know, what do you expect? You know, they're doing their job.

And they're human beings doing what human beings do. So, I mean, I can absolutely sympathize and understand, you know, these guys' jobs. My only beef is like, do you have to be, I mean, yes, you're pissed. Yes, it's a lot of work. Yes, it's frustrating. Yes, it feels like your country is invaded. Yeah, blah, blah. We get all that.

But is you being mean rude or or downright evil is that going to change anything it's not these guys went through freaking the amazon i i mean at some point i swam with a crocodile i didn't even know the crocodile was around i'm just saying it's so weird that they're educated and they're informed yet they still have that attitude it's just like you know what i mean it doesn't it doesn't go anywhere yeah it doesn't it doesn't help and like look it doesn't matter what you think about policy like if there's a baby crying because it hasn't no they get cold they became cold-hearted and it sucks because again i spoke to this guy

from san diego which i really appreciate his, you know, sort of, you know, he was very forward with me, and I appreciate that, because he probably doesn't get to talk to anybody because nobody speaks English. So, and then the idea is, you know, they're frustrated with the system, they're frustrated with the capacity, with the positions they're put in. Okay, I absolutely sympathize. You cannot go wrong with that.

I mean, you have every right to be that way. Again, my beef is why do you, like, good morning, F you. Good afternoon, F you. Good night, F you. Like, what? It becomes so sad. It's just like, you know Good night, F you. Like, what? It becomes so sad. It's just like, you know, it loses its importance.

Even the F word is no longer important. You know what I mean? So, yeah, it's just too much. So much. It's very dehumanizing, isn't it? Like everyone who participates in it gets dehumanized. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And I mean, eventually, I got inspired by David and Cesar. I think they did a freaking amazing job. I mean, it was a shock in my system to see the contrast between, I think it's the biggest necessary contrast in that specific place. You need to see the two sides of the American spirit. see the two sides of the american spirit right there you have volunteers saying f you to the system and you have borders men saying f you to the system you know what i mean like you know it's just a huge contrast and that's what really gives hope for for anything going forward so so i appreciate it i don't think david and caesar really understand how important what they're doing. It's extremely important.

It's very valuable. So to me personally, it's just the shock and awe, the initial shock, it just went away really quickly because I saw tools and I saw David and I knew what's going on because I volunteered in shelters in L.A., in Los Angeles. I volunteered at the mission down at downtown LA, Skid Row, if you've heard of Skid Row.

I volunteered there. I know very well what homelessness looks like. I've done Christmas service. I've done food service. Automatically, when I saw David, I just completely kicked in. It was a natural thing for me to jump aboard and help.

Then, again, I couldn't sleep. Early in the morning, like four or five, I started seeing some border patrolmen coming in. And right away, the huffing and puffing starts. You know what I mean? The trawling and all that business. Okay. And initially, I mean, again, i hate to use the word i but i helped to organize the crowd a little bit because they were fighting because they were the pp was bp was picking up uh uh

people that have been there that they just arrived and leaving the people that were there longer you know for the the ones that ones that I stayed with were there for four days. They didn't get picked up. And so that's a logistical issue, and people were just not being organized. So we did a line, demarcation line. Those who were

here for three days, they need to be here. Two days, one day, da-da-dee-da-da-da. We did that. And then the first border patrolman that showed up on a jeep started yelling at me you're doing our job okay sorry sorry sorry i backed up i backed up i minded my business and then another border patrolman tells me hey listen listen listen i need you to do 47 on this side 47 on this side i need you yeah side. I need to, yeah. I'm like, what's going on here?

I mean, again, I dropped my ego. I don't care. As long as these guys get a chance to get through, because there was a lot of frustration where they're picking up people random and they're picking up, leaving people that have been there for a long time. You had families that did not want to be separated. You had families that have been there to be separated. You had families that

have been there longer. So it's just a huge mishmash of situations. And so, yeah, I mean, eventually on the next day, early in the morning, we did some organizing and it seemed to me that we were much more fluid and the border patrolman filled up the bus and I happened to be one of them, one of the people that were picked up. Yeah. Anyhow, so. But what a story, what a journey. Right?

It's insane. I'm still processing, man. Of course. I mean, that's a traumatic experience. Yeah. It's just, I guess, one story. And like you said, there are thousands of them. Thousands.

Thousands. All right. That's what we're going to cut it off today. And we will pick up again tomorrow to hear more about Amos' journey, how he's found himself in the United States, where he's going, and where he is now. Thank you so much. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media.

For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com. Thanks for listening. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

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