It Could Happen Here - Anarchism in Egypt Part 1 Ft. Andrew

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Andrew and Mia discuss the conditions that produced the anarchist movement in late 1800's Egypt and how it spread among Egypt's diverse working classSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Welcome to It Could Happen Here. I'm Andrew of the YouTube channel Andruism. And I'm here with... Wait, was that the cue? Oh, no. Yeah. Hi, it's me, Mia Long. I'm here with oh wait was that the cue? oh no hi it's me Mia Long I'm also here and apparently missing cues instantly I don't know it is barbarically early for me

so yay barbarically? what time is it? 10 o'clock oh come on come on come on look it would have been fine if I wasn't up 10 o'clock. Oh, come on, come on, come on, come on. Look,

it, it, it would have been fine if I wasn't up till 3am last night dealing with a session of minor crises. Oh, damn. That's unfortunate. Yeah, it's all right.

Otherwise, if it wasn't a crisis, I would have like flexed my early bird supremacy, but you know, I've been up since like seven six thirty something like that now but um i just did my duolingo this one and yeah so today i wanted to shed light on some really interesting history i think of the anarchist movement in egypt um i've read in this book called anarchism and

syndicalism in the colonial and post-colonial world and there's a section oh yeah um by a guy named anthony guaman that i found really interesting i just had to share it's really specific to the anarchist um egyptian anarchist history of like the late 19th and early 20th century um and honestly I find that whole period to be very interesting partially because I am a dreaded Paradox Games fan and um I enjoy my little you know Vicky 3 my little you know I like that that period in history um honestly any period of history prior to World War II I find interesting

everything World War II is just like a complete bore to me and then everything past World War II is like cool but see like

the World War II period itself not my thing you know like tell me about the Phoenicians tell me about the Phrygians tell me about the uh Carthag tell me about the Phrygians,

tell me about the, uh, Carthaginians, but I don't really care about the axis and which tank was the superior tank and all those different things. A lot of these, um, couldn't go history buffs into, um, not to piss anyone's cereal,

of course, whatever, you know, floats your boat. But for me, I really like that pre-world war ii sort of stuff um and the victorian era is one particularly interesting point uh in history and a lot of things were happening that time um industrial revolution

was shaken up around the world colonization was going on uh and effects of that would, you know, reverberate for centuries to come. And the true successor to the Roman Empire, in my opinion, the Ottoman Empire, was kind of going through a series of crises and Egypt, which was under the Ottoman Empire, Egypt, which was under the Ottoman Empire, and then broke free of the Ottoman Empire, had its own stuff going on. So I don't want to get too much into that whole mess, but I want to give some context because this is a history episode.

It might be a two-part history episode, in fact. So let's just start back in the late 19th century um so there's this foreign working community in egypt thanks to muhammad ali um no relation and he was the ruler of egypt from 1805 to 1849 this guy was all about modernizing stuff like the military state administration and the economy so he invited skilled folks to come to Egypt and lend their labor. Oh, isn't he the guy that Napoleon fought for a little bit? I think so. I think so.

I mean, who didn't Napoleon fight? I'm sure if he could have, Napoleon would have fought like the dinosaurs. Yeah, Napoleon fighting cavemen on the moon. And speaking of Napoleon, I really don't appreciate how I mean no disrespect to Joaquin Phoenix but wasn't Napoleon like in his 20s when he rose up the ranks

military and all that like I could be mistaken I could be confusing him with the other Napoleon but I'm pretty sure Napoleon was not an old man when he was making a lot of the moves he was making let's see again I could be wrong well he was born in 1769

I'm leaving the math of this as an exercise for the reader what really throws me off is that there's like multiple Napoleons and so I mix up the histories of the different Napoleons but if it wasn't that Napoleon I know for sure one of the Napoleons

in question was like relatively young when he was making some of his moves like in his early to mid 20s when he was rising up the ranks kind of thing but I could be entirely mistaken. I'm sure somebody will correct me.

I don't know. None of this is relevant to what this episode is about. But yeah, so Muhammad Ali, again, no relation. His successors, Saeed and Ismail, took things to the next level after he passed on with some major infrastructure projects they were building railways they were expanding canals they were going wild the urban development and they needed a bunch of skilled workers for a lot of that so they brought in italians greeks syrians

dalmatians and of course they used their local egyptian laborers as well. Many of those workers came to work on the famous Suez Canal, of course, and that required a massive workforce. Yeah, many of whom died. Yeah. Canal digging, like, canal digging, I don't know. It's a famously high mortality rate profession. Yeah. You might as well dig your own grave too.

Like, dig it before you start so as well dig your own grave too like like yeah dig it before you start so they can bury your body halfway through yes it's like not gallows humor it's like canal humor you know it's like oh we're digging this canal we're gonna die in here anyway it's kind of similar thing occurred in um digging of the panama canal uh although in that case they brought in a lot of bijan and other car other Caribbean workers to yeah uh you know set that up and actually the day of Panama Canal is responsible for like was responsible for I think a third of the Bajan economy at one point because the remittances they were being sent back to their families at home um that's a whole different chapter in history but yeah so this this massive

and diverse workforce is bringing of course not, not just their labor, but ideas. Because whenever you get people together, they start talking. Egypt was already considered something of a place of refuge for political exiles. So it's not very surprising that anarchism was starting to gain popularity around that time, particularly with the Italians in Egypt. Yeah, that's the thing. That's the thing in this period is like, you can literally track the spread of anarchism like by where there are a bunch of Italian workers like this happens in Argentina too. It's like anywhere there are Italians,

anarchy spreads. It's like, it's a me, anarchism. That's going to set somebody off. My apologies to the Italian community. I shouldn't have said that. Look, they hadn't invented fascism yet. This is back when the Italians were still cool. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm probably going to get a letter. Hopefully, you know, there's nothing else attached to it. Italians already had a history with the anarchist movement as we know um i mean some people would of course be familiar with folks like eric malatesta so there's no surprises there um labor and political radicalism caught sparks first in the italian worker society um or società opera ital in 1860, which was formed to look out for the interests of its members. And later on in the mid-1870s, you had these veterans from Garibaldi's campaigns. And by the way, Garibaldi was one of the figures responsible for the Italian unification.

And then you also had other radicals forming thought and action a political association with massinian principles massini by the way giuseppe massini was an italian republican who advocated for liberty and democracy and class collaboration and all that jazz uh marx once called him an everlasting old ass which is just really funny and I had to include that there he's just like me for real anyway and then in 1876 a more radical splinter group became an official section of the first international in Alexandria

which is one of the earliest attempts to create a worldwide association of workers and socialist groups I don't know if it could happen. He has ever discussed like the history of the internationalists before, but it gets messy. Oh God. Yeah.

It gets messy. It gets catty. It gets like, we got to spill that tea at some point. Yeah. It's fucking wild. Like, especially,

especially once you get into like the 17 different fourth internationals and it's, it's a time like Like, especially, especially once you get into like the 17 different fourth internationals and it's, it's a time like the, the, the, the second international is such a disaster that Hosni Mubarak is part of it when he gets overthrown. Like it's a,

it's, it's, it's a good time. And by a good time, I mean an incredibly bad time. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Honestly. I just have to throw my head back and laugh quite heartily when i i hear folks talking about you know why can't the left unite you know like where's the leftist unity why can't we just come to like nah this has been taking place since 19th century you know my my absolute favorite version of this is people being people taught people being like ah marx marx wouldn't want there to have been so been taking place since the 19th century you know my my absolute favorite version of this is people being people taught people being like ah marx marx wouldn't want there to have been so much discord on the left it's like have you ever read any marx like that that is a man whose writing

is about 60 percent yelling at someone whose ideas he's also stolen like by volume like one of his most famous like one of the things that that you get assigned to read from Marx in college is the German ideology, which is like 400 pages of him being annoyed by people whose ideas are slightly different than his. It's like, like this is, this is,

this is an ancient tradition. The irony of Marx calling somebody else an everlasting old ass will not be lost on me. And, and quite frankly, this idea of, Oh,x wouldn't want this marx wouldn't want that that really comes from that sort of messiahfication of marx i just coined that term you know you can send me my flowers in the mail because essentially what people are doing is treating marx and marx ideas and marxism as just like Christianity 2.0.

It's kind of like how people would have been saying Jesus wouldn't want all this division in the church except he just replaced Jesus with Marx and the church with the left. Marx has this famous line where he goes like if he's responding to the first French Marxist and he goes

if this is Marxism then I am not a Marxist. Oh yeah. And then everyone proceeded to ignore him and call themselves marxists that's like well this is great things have gone this is yeah yeah i mean even even in their lifetimes all these figures that we respect now they didn't really like their admirers like malatesta was quite embarrassed that he had fans, I recall. Yeah. No, and to be clear, to be clear, that is the appropriate reaction to having fans.

It is a terrifying thing. Very true. Flee in terror. Exactly. Exactly. Welcome. I'm Danny Trejo. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter?

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Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead,

now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. We're back to Alexandria, right? Where the Fools International's first official section, one of its sections, came about. And it was one of the earliest attempts to create a worldwide association of workers and socialist groups. And it expanded and it formed sections in Cairo and in Port Said and in Ismailia.

Or Ismailia. And they even had the idea of spreading socialist propaganda in different languages, like Italian and Greek and Turkish and Arabic to reach more folks in the quote unquote East. They want to take the ideas of the First International beyond just European communities, you know, try and reach out to the locals. Unfortunately, for those familiar with the history of the First International, it fizzled out. So, you know, they couldn't really fully execute their plans. But, you know, you gotta give them credit for trying to make a difference beyond their own little circles. Meanwhile, Egypt was in the midst of a deep political crisis.

The military was pissed because of the disastrous Egypto-Ethiopian war. The upper ranks, the civil service, the army and the business world world had become dominated by Europeans, who were paid much more than native Egyptians. The country's inability to service its debt from costly infrastructure projects and lavish spending by Ismail, its rule at the time, led to European control over its treasury in 1876. And under European pressure, Ismail was deposed in 1879, replaced with his son Tawfiq, who aimed to basically satisfy Egypt's creditors by any means necessary. And so this tumultuous political climate provided both challenges

and opportunities for the anarchists in Egypt. A revolt led by an Egyptian officer of the Egyptian army, Ahmed Urabi, sought to depose Tawfiq, establish a constitutional government, and end British and French influence over the country. Although he was characterized as anti-foreign, Urabi received support from some foreign elements, including the very same Italian workers in Alexandria and a lot of the anarchists in the area. Now, as we know, anarchists are not really advocates of nationalism, though they will fight for national liberation causes. So anarchists and nationalists found themselves on the same side when it came to fighting against European imperialism in Egypt. So when the British were causing trouble, anarchists like Malatesta teamed up with

nationalists led by Urabi to resist foreign domination. However, the British and French governments, who were intent on protecting their investments and nationals, confronted Urabi, which resulted in British forces bombarding Alexandria and eventually occupying the country in 1882. Throughout the early years of British occupation, the anarchist movement in Egypt faced both internal divisions and factionalism, similar to what was happening in other parts of the world. Anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella of the international during the 1870s, but the defection of a particularly locally influential figure named andrea costa from libertarian socialism from libertarian socialism in 1879 caused a significant schism within the

local movement let me reread that so anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella of the international during the 1870s but the defection of one particularly locally influential figure named andrea costa from the school of libertarian socialism in 1879 caused a significant schism within the local movement and the movement also suffered other internal divisions particularly with the enduring conflict between anti-organizationalists and anarcho-syndicalists on the role of collective association in achieving anarchist aims. Quote, Until the end of the 19th century, the former trend appears to have been in the ascendancy, but with the growth of the labor movement, anarcho-syndicalists expanded their influence. Other disputes reflected the power of personalities.

Ugo Parini, a key figure and staunch anti-organizationalist, was notorious for his uncompromising style and was a persistent obstacle to greater cooperation among anarchists. Not until after his death in 1906 was a national program of action agreed, which provided a solid basis for collaboration within the egyptian movement now i didn't find any writings by ugo perini himself um to speak his piece but it sounds like he might have been a everlasting old ass himself if you know after the moment he died they were able to finally come together and come to agreement on something that means bro is like a significant obstacle to uh the organizational

efforts but you know he fought with his principles and he died by them so you know some respect there there welcome i'm daniel won't you join me at the fire and dare enter nocturnal tales from the shadows presented by iheart and sonora an anthology of modernday horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series,

Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their

words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. So, until the end of the 19th century, the anti-organizationalists seemed to have had the upper upper hand but with the growth of the labor movement anarchist syndicalists gained a lot more influence tut tut leftist disunity strikes again the real downside of this history is that the

anarchist movement was still quite european and quite male, and the right and nationalist movements were not exactly helping matters. However, while the majority of anarchist women, there was a women's section established in Cairo during the 1870s, so there was some female participation happening as well. You know, it's a real, real Barbie moment there, you know, real win for feminism. The ethnic diversity of the anarchist movement in Egypt did expand over time though. Although Italians remained the dominant group until WWI, the movement attracted Greeks,

Jews, Germans, and various Eastern European nationalities. Arab-Affron Egyptians also began to play a lot more significant role, as seen in their involvement in industrial actions, educational activities, and anarchist meetings during the early 1900s. And the occupational backgrounds of these anarchists were just as diverse as their ethnicities. Skilled artisans, including carpenters, masons, tailors, and painters, were among the majority. Some came from the petit bourgeoisie like grocers and tavern owners, while others were involved in trade or worked for merchant houses, and the movement also included professionals like doctors, lawyers,

and journalists. By the late 19th century, the anarchist community started to shift its focus toward the new working class such as cigarette workers printers and employees of large utilities like tramway companies however despite this diversity and despite all the calls for internationalism local nationalist associations still held a lot of power because they provided their communities with welfare services and social events and all that. It's kind of like how immigrants in new countries, even today, will typically group together in enclaves and communities to share their culture and to share their support, economic and otherwise. When you're in a situation where everyone around you is perceived as foreign and you're seeking

some measure of security and safety and also cultural preservation that is a thing that immigrants tend to do and these workers were immigrants to Egypt and so they kind of did the same thing unfortunately many of these national associations were controlled by bourgeois interests yeah in the Greek community for example the powers of the bourgeois interests. In the Greek community, for example, the powers of the bourgeois oligarchy in funding and controlling community institutions really worked to keep workers in line with what the authorities wanted.

Because if you stepped out of line from what this oligarchy wanted, you kind of lose access to those essential community institutions. And if you still have a family to take care of a family that you might have brought to egypt or started in egypt or really just struggling against meat or you know you're a fish out of water um and you don't really know any other languages you just know your own people to be isolated like that is really a hazardous situation

to be in and so that's how they kept people in line but as in terms of the european nationalists there's also some rise in egyptian nationalism that also had some sway originally egyptian nationalists called signs of militant labor as part of a european disease and alien to the egyptian context which by the way i've noticed a lot of right-wing organizations and movements tend to apply that pseudo anti-imperial label to things so you would see it with for example some right-wing um african nationalist groups would describe the presence of homosexuality in the country as a consequence of european imperialism european colonialism is completely foreign to any kind of african context history whatever which is entirely false but they do use that sort of like false anti-imperialism to build up their power base and build up their reactionary base.

So it's a pattern you can observe a lot of these right-wing movements, particularly global South right-wing movements. right-wing movement interestingly though the egyptian nationalists who were calling militant labor uh european disease their opinions turned around kind of quick when they saw how potent it was for exercising power in 1909 the watani party openly backed the formation of the manual trades workers union which was a diverse body of e urban workers because they recognised, the party finally recognised both the need to constitute a broader national community and the political potential of the workers in the struggle against British occupation. Now, before the Egyptian nationalists came around on this

the anarcho-syndicalists had already begun trying to attract more Egyptian workers into their internationalist anarchist struggle. They knew that to make a real impact, they had to connect with native Egyptian workers. But here's the thing, the international union structure wasn't always practical for them. Many occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Egyptians, and many occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Egyptians and many occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Europeans. So forming those unions was easier said than done. But that didn't stop the anarchists from trying. You know, they saw the importance of promoting labour organisation and militancy among the Egyptian working class. And so when the cab drivers in Alexandria went

on strike in 1903, the anarchists were there to gas them up. The anarchists were of course trying to emphasize what the workers had in common, the lack of boundaries that labor has, that it doesn't care for things like nationality or religion or race, that all workers had the same needs, the same struggles, and the same aspirations for their well-being. Of course, the nationalists had their own political vision, so while anarchists emphasised international solidarity and shared interests, Nationalists were resorting to nativist appeals and organisational tactics to splinter the labour movement and break up its internationalist orientation.

To give them some credit though, the Watanning Party did recognise the importance of allying with foreign workers and urged egyptian workers during the tram strike of 1911 to unite and strengthen yourselves and increase your numbers through combination and through unity with the european workers your comrades and then we get to 1919 and the quote-unquote 1919 revolution um it's kind of a significant movement in egyptian history and and i guess we're there so let's talk about it in 1919 the british government imposed new taxes and restrictions on civil liberties which further fueled the discontent and united egyptians from various social economic and political backgrounds the spark that ignited the revolution was the deportation of Egyptian nationalist

leaders Saad Sagloul and other political figures by the British authorities for opposing their policies. In response, massive protests erupted across the country, with strikes, demonstrations, and civil disobedience becoming widespread. Egyptians from all walks of life, including workers, students, intellectuals, and peasants, took part in the movement. They were influenced in part by the strategies and tactics of the syndicalist presence in the region and abroad at the time. The revolution gained momentum and the demands of the protesters became more explicit, calling for full independence, a constitution, and an end to British rule. The British authorities initially tried to suppress the protests with force,

which of course led to violent clashes and bloodshed. However, the resilience and unity of the Egyptian people ultimately forced the British government to recognize the scale of the uprising and the strength of the nationalist movement. In 1922, the United Kingdom unilaterally declared Egypt's independence, though the British continued to exert considerable influence over Egyptian affairs. One could argue that the spectre of anarchism would rear its head again in Egypt's history, particularly during the Arab Spring in 2011, when anarchic tactics could be found across the Middle East and North Africa. In the next part, I'll be talking more about what anarchists were doing in Egypt in the late 19th and late 20th centuries. But for now, I hope that today's

anarchists in Egypt and elsewhere can keep the flame of freedom burning. All power to all the people. Peace. Oh, and this has been Andrew. You can follow me on youtube.com slash andrewrizoma and support the Patreon at patreon.com slash stdrew. See y'all next time. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com,

or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of right. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Find legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals.

You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. The 2025 iHeart Podcast Awards are coming. This is the chance to nominate your podcast New episodes every Thursday. doing all that talking, it's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards.