It Could Happen Here - Anti-Zionist Activism with Sim Kern

Episode Date: October 23, 2023

Shereen is joined by author and journalist Sim Kern to talk about the need to separate Jewish identity from Israel and the importance of Jewish anti-zionist voices in the fight for Palestinian liberation.   Follow Sim: instagram.com/sim_bookstagrams_badly   twitter.com/sim_kern simkern.com Buy: The Free People’s Village: https://linktr.ee/SimKern    Recommended books by Palestinian authors: Salt Houses by Hana Alyan Against the Loveless World by Susan Abulhawa Rifqa by Mohammed el-Kurd Homeland: My Father Dreams of Palestine by Hannah Moushabeck The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917–2017 by Rashid Khalidi   Recommended books by non-Palestinians authors: Palestine by Joe Sacco The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan PappéSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome to It Could Happen Here. This is Shereen, and I am so excited to be joined by author and journalist Sim Kern. Their latest novel, The Free People's Village, is available now. So go to your local bookstore and order it and support a voice that I believe we all need in our zeitgeist right now. So welcome, Sim. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. For those of you who don't know, Sim has been making videos recently about the genocide in Gaza from a queer Jewish anti-Zionist perspective.

And this is one that I think a lot of people need to be exposed to and to listen to. I mentioned this to you before the recording, but a Jewish friend of mine told me how much she connected with your voice and how much she's learned from you and how your videos have been helping her approach really awkward and difficult conversations with her peers. So I appreciate you very much. Happy to do whatever I can. When you decided to start making like the first video that got a lot of attention, like, were you seeing something that you wanted to like, make sure you correct in the zeitgeist like what was your perspective as a Jewish person well this is the first video that I made was encouraging people to read books by Palestinian authors just to learn about the Palestinian perspective which is so often

censored and not really allowed in in our media And also what you really have to go seek out in publishing. And this isn't the first time I've done this since I think 2017 or something was the first time I created Read for Palestine Challenge on YouTube. And just creating this Read for Palestine Challenge was enough to get me put on the canary mission website and like outed as a as a anti-semite by this very zionist website that of course a block list of mostly students who organize with like students for justice in palestine and really anyone who speaks out publicly uh against israeli apartheid. So simply like encouraging people to read these books, I think is really powerful. And I know for me growing up Jewish in the United States,

I was just inundated with a lot of Zionist propaganda from my more conservative family. My more liberal family would take the line of like, it's just very complicated. Both sides hate each other. Who can say who's right? And it was only by reading Palestinian voices that I really developed an anti-Zionist perspective. That's awesome that you did the Read for Palestine challenge, but also like not surprising about the Canary Mission thing, unfortunately.

But I'm glad that that didn't stop you or discourage you. about the Canary mission thing, unfortunately. But I'm glad that that didn't stop you or discourage you. When you start to learn more about Palestine, how did you approach conversations with your friends and family? Again, like, I guess initially, it's different talking to friends and family than it is talking to the internet. Honestly, it's much easier, I think sometimes to connect with the internet because there's not that like personal connection. I think I've made more headway and had a much greater impact online than I have with certain friends and family members. But, you know, I do think that everyone having those conversations, putting your beliefs out there, whether it's one-on-one and face-to-face conversations or whether it is doing it online,

where like certainly your friends and family are going to see the things that you're posting and the things that you care about it has a great impact and like I've definitely noticed friends of mine over time who maybe a few intense bombing campaigns ago were very checked out on this issue are now very active and are and are speaking out themselves and so that's I guess that would be my message to other like anti-Zionist Jews is even if the first time you're putting stuff out there about Palestine it feels like no one's listening it feels like you know you're not making a difference over time. You're planting the seeds of like questioning the Western media's, you know, pro-Israeli perspective over time. Yeah, that's a really, really good point.

My friend also mentioned she would never have been exposed to your voice if I didn't share it, or if people were not sharing it. So I think people really underestimate the value of social media sometimes or speaking up on social media. They're just like, oh, people are already talking about it or whatever, but everyone has a community they can reach that no one else can reach. So I think that's important to remember. You made some points in some videos that you made that I would love for you to not like regurgitate, but maybe just like cover for people that haven't watched your videos or are just unaware in general. I think a really important point you made was how suffering is not monopolized or exclusive or any worse or better than other people suffering, regardless of what identity they are. Can you get into that a little

bit? Yeah. So I made a video that was actually responding to a comment by someone saying, like, how dare you compare the suffering of Palestinians to the suffering of Jews? How dare you compare genocides? That's disgusting and that cheapens the Holocaust. And that was, again, I think, responding to a video where I was saying, like, read about other genocides besides the Holocaust, because I think it just, again, as a Jewish American, I grew up steeped in Holocaust literature. I read every book I could about it. You know, I think a lot of Jewish kids by the time we're adolescents, we have like this PhD level knowledge of the Holocaust. I think that our peers who are non-Jewish maybe don't have quite as much exposure and understanding of the Holocaust, but that is often the only genocide that is taught in U.S. schools.

And so there's a narrative that the suffering of the Jews and the persecution of Jews is uniquely specific and that it was all about the religion. It's something about Judaism itself is why we've been persecuted. Well, I, as an author, currently I'm writing a book on Jews in the 17th century, and I've just done a ton of research on medieval and early modern Jewish history. And of course there was religious hate, but it was motivated by, and I contended in this video that all genocides are motivated by land and wealth and power and the hate is manufactured by people in power to justify taking people's land and wealth and to solidify their own power as rulers and the Christian church used this against Jews in the medieval and early modern period and in in our times, there's no one

religion that has a monopoly on committing genocide. There's no one state, because really it's states that are committing genocide, that it's not directed to one people. So I've encouraged people to read books about, here in the United States, obviously, the genocide of the native peoples, the Congolese genocide, you know, I just recommended a couple different titles, the Rwandan genocide for a more recent example. And it is I reject the framework that you can't make comparisons between genocides. I think that keeps us ignorant. I think that keeps us from being in solidarity with one another and understanding the mechanisms of power and control and wealth accumulation that underlie all of these genocides. And I do believe what is happening in Palestine right now is a genocide being committed by the Israeli state. being committed by the Israeli state. Yeah. And also really good point about justifying it by creating all the people in Palestine as barbarians or terrorists or this rhetoric that becomes really dangerous and harmful. And as

we've seen, like people can die, a 60 year old can die from this rhetoric. Right. And Yahoo just said, this is a struggle between children of light and children of darkness. Like that is genocidal rhetoric. I cannot believe that tweet. And I mean, he deleted it, but I mean, the internet is forever. I just can't believe that was, that is so normal for him to tweet just confidently, even at one point, just to say that out loud. I think that's absurd. And also just like to see how Yoav Galant has been saying like human animals or referring to Palestinians in such a dehumanizing way. You mentioned something really important that I think I appreciated about how

maintaining the dehumanization of the Palestinians is vital to maintain the white supremacist imperialistic thing that is Israel. Can you get into that a little bit? Yeah, well, I think that was me trying, that came out of me trying to understand why there was such backlash when I first, when I first years ago started recommending people read Palestinian books is because when you read a book by a Palestinian author, it is going to humanize the Palestinian people for you. And that is incredibly threatening. And Palestinian authors face a ton of discrimination within publishing. I mean, look at what was it earlier this week, the Frankfurt Book Festival pulled or canceled a ceremony for a Palestinian author, Adania Shibley,

and then has made more time for Israeli voices and Israeli specific panels at that book festival. And simply because she's a Palestinian, she writes books dealing with real, factual Palestinian history. And her books are critical of Israel. But the silencing of Palestinian voices is a global project. It is across all media industries. You see it in traditional book publishing as well as journalism. Another, an author friend of mine, Hanin O Orikat has had the hardest time she's been on sub with her book and she's been told by multiple editors to change the main character from a Palestinian

character to just a generic Arabic character because being Palestinian is seen as inherently too controversial to publish yeah Yeah, I read that. That's just, I mean, again, not completely surprised, but just so shameful that that is something that is still happening in these modern times. I think another thing to remember is a lot of people get confused between the differences between being non-white and white

in the scope of like this world. I guess it just seems so obvious that colorism and racism both exist in today's world. And I really liked what you mentioned about the difference between colorism and racism. Can you talk about that for a little bit? Yeah. So I was explaining that in the Western media, Israelis are treated as white and Palestinians are treated as non-white. And it really is regardless of the color of your skin. So a lot of people giving me pushback on that comment say, oh, but there's black and brown and white Israelis. Yes. And in the racist apartheid state that is Israel, people of different

skin tones are treated very differently within Israel. We've seen there was forced sterilization of African Jews immigrating to Israel. But when it comes to the Western media, our view of the conflict is not as nuanced as recognizing those differences. And so I was explaining that colorism is, you know, discrimination based on the color of your skin. Racism is a racial construct. It's about social, economic, and legal discrimination. And while colorism is often used to determine racism, that's not always 100% the case. And in the case of Israel, when you're talking about the Western media looking at Israel, they report on Israelis as people, as people who are to be mourned, as people whose deaths are important, as people whose lives are valuable. And they report on people in Gaza, Palestinians, as human shields is the most sympathetic way we hear them talked about.

Their deaths are not deemed important. They are not humanized within the media. If they're killed, they're either combatants, or they were a human shield, they were someone being used by combatants and their deaths are, you know, maybe the lip service is paid to those debts being regrettable, but they're seen as necessary and not unconscionable in the way that deaths in Israel are reported on. Yeah. I think you bring up a really good point about the media and how important semantics are. I think something that we've been seeing time and time again is how deep the dehumanization goes.

Like Israelis have been killed versus Palestinians have died. The Gaza Strip is being referred to, I've seen it as an enclave. Oh my God. You know, an enclave where terrorists lurk. So yeah, the words used to describe the city of Gaza, the words used to describe people as combatants, the words like, you know, Palestinians die in a clash. when that clash was racist Jewish settlers with machine guns coming after them, you know? So, yeah. Passive voice does a lot of work. It does. It does.

I mean, we've seen it just recently with the hospital bombing, how the New York Times changed their headline like three times from strike and then to blast, I believe was what they landed on blast, which I just find honestly comical when I really think about it too hard. Yeah, Elizabeth Warren came out and condemned blasts. Like that is just so just the passive voice is so dangerous because it really, it really obfuscates the truth, which is that Palestinian people are dying of genocide. Even calling it a war or a conflict does not do what's happening justice because it still implies there are two equal sides that are fighting against each other versus an occupier, an oppressor versus the occupied, the oppressed. So I think semantics are so important for us to keep in mind, even when we're talking about it

with our peers, to make sure that we talk about it in the correct way, because I feel like it unconsciously becomes ingrained in us, even if we don't realize it, when we keep talking about certain things, the way the media wants us to talk about them as a conflict or as a clash or whatever it is. And something else that I've really tuned into is really being careful not to pit this as a struggle between Muslims and Jews. Any framing like that is both Islamophobic and anti-Semitic and incredibly inaccurate. This is about an ethno state, a nation state, an apartheid state, which is Israel, um, targeting its captive population. Um, and it is, and there are Palestinians who are of all different faiths who are discriminated against

because they are Palestinians within, um, occupied Palestine. So, like, for example, it just came to my attention that there are some in the, I'm a book talker, my book talk channel, it's bookstagram, is mostly what I do is just, you know, share about books for folks to read and share about the books I'm working on. And some of my fellow book talkers have been recommending people read books by both Palestinian and Jewish authors so they can show both sides. A Palestinian author, Hannah Mushebek, just wrote a great letter to sort of call in our community and explain this is a very, this is very anti-semitic to conflate judaism with israel the policies of israel you know yesterday we saw 500 jewish activists get arrested in the capitol building

here in dc in protest and demanding an immediate ceasefire in gaza so there are many many anti-zionist jews um judaism and zionism are the same thing, but conflating them gives Israel more power and gives it a stronger moral foothold to say, oh, we're representing all Jews, not just this state. So that's something also to be really careful about is to not pit this as a Muslim versus Jewish fight, because it's not. It's about Israel, the state versus Palestinian people. Yeah, that's vital to remember. Let's take our first break right here and we'll be right back. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows

presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time.

Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands,

for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncover explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works

while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola, mi gente. It's Honey German, and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment

with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories.

sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el te caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and we are back you were just talking about how this is just 100 not a religious issue and i think talking about semantics again i framing it as a religious issue is another way for people to stop talking about it to be too afraid to to get into this complicated ancient battle of all time this archaic thing that we can't even get into because we can't understand it. I think the Zionist narrative wants us to believe it's about religion so people can ignore what's actually going on and be too scared to speak out. It's like time and time again, something that I want to remind people is that it's not Muslim

versus Jewish, which is what it gets framed by most of the time. But speaking of Zionism and how it's not equated to the Jewish religion at all, if anything, Zionism is anti-Semitic in and of itself. I believe that wholeheartedly. Yeah. I believe Zionism makes all Jews so much more unsafe. Yeah. It's also rooted in a lot of anti-Semitism. Even the way the state of Israel was created was Europeans being like, hey, Jews, can you go here? It wasn't this gift to the Jewish people. It was also about to be in Africa, which I find fascinating. And also, I think people always forget the majority of Zionists in the United States are evangelical Christians. That is 100% accurate.

That's why they support Zionism. And it's because they want all the Jews to go to Israel for the rapture to happen. It is the most like comic book idea I've ever heard. And everyone just goes along with it. Yeah. That brings me to another thing you brought up in your videos about needing a homeland. I think what you discussed is really important because of this narrative that a lot of Zionists teach to Jewish people about how they're constantly being persecuted. I think people are led to believe that Israel is their safe haven. Like, if all else fails,

I have Israel to go back to. That is my home. Even like American Jews that have no connection to Israel, really. Why, in your opinion, do the Jewish people not necessarily need a homeland? Right. Well, I made that video speaking to other like other leftists. I was addressing other leftists. So I think if you agree with me on the premise that everyone should have a safe place to live and everyone should have equal rights, which I think are two pretty pretty basic tenets of being a leftist, then you just can't have anybody having a theocratic ethno state, which is what Israel is. I mean, they say they're not, but that is how they act and how that is how that country is run. And so, you know, a lot of people misinterpreted that video as, you know, kind of tried to argue with me saying, but there's other theocratic ethnostates. But I'm saying, yeah, if you're a leftist, you should think that's bad everywhere.

Because a theocratic ethnostate is an inherently fascist construct. state is an inherently fascist construct. It's inherently saying one religion and or one ethnicity in the case of the way Israel interprets Judaism. These people are more valuable and are more citizens here and have more rights here than everybody else. And that is just incompatible with leftist values, I think. And so the point of that video is nobody should have a theocratic ethno state. And this is a line that I've heard even some leftist Jews saying, well, oh, we, you know, this is a complicated issue because Jews need a homeland. Well, I'm sorry. Our world is just too heterogeneous, too diverse. You know, migrations have been going on for tens of thousands of years all over

the place. There's no one plot of land on earth anymore that you can carve out and say, okay, just this one type of people are going to get to live here and be citizens here and have rights here. Now, I'm an anarchist personally. So I, when I say no theocratic ethnostates, I'm also, like, in a bigger picture way saying, like, no states would be the ideal for me. But certainly theocratic ethnostates are even worse within that framework compared to, like, liberal democracies or something. liberal democracies or something. So yeah, I that was a video that was like, intended to be an in group conversation. And then it got a million views and got because my following has like really exploded over the last week. So I wasn't expecting it to go so far. And so for people who idealize ethnostates like Japan or Sweden, they were really having a hard time with me saying that and thinking it was really anti-Semitic for me to say, oh, I don't think Jews should have a theocratic ethnostate. But no, I think nobody should have a theocratic ethnostate. That's a really good point to make.

I mean, it goes back to the idea of Jewish suffering being more valuable in some way than other suffering. I think it continues this hierarchy of sorts. And everything you described about people not being treated the same and not having enough rights, that's of apartheid and has been against the Palestinian people. And I find it weird that, I mean, Amy Schumer posted this crazy video proving in her words that it's not an apartheid state, actually, and how people have all the rights in the world when in reality, it's shameful. Yeah, it's like the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch are all saying this is an apartheid state, but okay, Amy Schumer. Yeah, it's not actually that complicated. It's really not. I've been really appreciating Amanda Seals. She did like a reaction video to what Amy Schumer posted and like laid out all the racist reasons why actually apartheid is what you would call that. Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me as the fire and dare enter?

Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows. as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks

while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators,

sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with cheese man laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral.

Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think something that has bothered me within the both sides thing is, this is not a term that I hear often anymore, but like the progressive except Palestine. I think that idea has been really damaging because it makes it seem like you can still be so liberal and progressive and still not really recognize that Palestinians are being genocided for almost a century. Yeah. And this is just so frustrating because, again, what you're seeing in Palestine, it's so stark. The violence is so obvious and it's so egregious. And there's all these social justice, you know, organizations and accounts that I follow. There's like queer Jewish liberation accounts who've said nothing about Palestine. There's also non-Jewish, just queer, you know, all sorts of queer liberation,

queer activists out there, which is like a whole nother network that I'm tapped into. And many of them are staying silent on this genocide. And it's like, we are all fighting the same evils, the same type of oppression. And if you want people to stand with you, when your rights are being taken away, you got to stand with everybody else. That's the only way intersectionality is the only way that we can overcome these enormous forces of oppression in the world. So yeah, it's been very frustrating to see just how many, you know, anti-racist organizations, queer liberation organizations are just staying completely silent on Palestine. Yeah, I have been really frustrated about that as well,

because it encourages this sort of selective outrage that is reserved for certain kind of people that are deemed as human versus the people that are not. I really believe one of the most powerful voices in the fight for Palestinian liberation are Jewish anti-Zionists because they can speak to what people deem is the source of that problem from a different place. But I hope you realize how important your voice is just in general, especially now. And yeah, I just really thank you for what you've been doing. Because it's kind of scary too, I'm sure, to suddenly have a big platform and have all these people analyzing everything you're saying and trying to find little holes in your arguments.

But I appreciate that you're not backing down. Yeah, it's been a trip. I went from 6,000 to 180,000 followers on Instagram in like a week I didn't realize that you started at 6,000 I was wondering about that that is a crazy jump yeah it happened really really fast and on TikTok too I had I had 50,000 on TikTok just from my like book talk author talk account which I've been you know growing over the course of two years. And then it went now it's like at 150,000. So like tripled on TikTok. But yeah, it's definitely made me more careful about what I say. Like, again, I had that one video that was sort of like an in group comment to leftist because I'm used to being on like, the leftist side of TikTok and then realizing, oh, crap, like everything I say is going to go out to like, absolutely every single kind of audience. So I need to like

really think about the context of what I say and that it, yeah, it's a, it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. I mean, it sounds really overwhelming and you've been navigating it well. And I don't know, I really appreciate you. Before we wrap this up, I would love for you to talk about your work a little bit, maybe your book, where people can find it, where they can support you in your work. The platform is all yours. Yeah, so I actually had a book come out about a month ago called The Free People's Village. And it is relevant to this topic. It's a very leftist book. It's about a punk band organizing to save their warehouse from demolition to make room for a new electromagnetic hyperway

in an alternate timeline where Al Gore won the 2000 election and declared a war on climate change instead of a war on terror. But it's a book that's really critical of neoliberal politics. So this solar punk utopia that's been created this world has really only impacted wealthy white neighborhoods while leaving everybody else behind. So it's a book about centering racial justice within climate organizing. And the final scene of the book actually takes place at a free Palestine protest. And so that's definitely like a presence throughout the book. And based on experiences I've had organizing with the incredible Students for Justice in Palestine and Palestinian Youth Movement organizers that we have here in Houston. So for people who

are listeners of this podcast, I do think they would enjoy the Free People's Village and you can get it. The best place to get it is always your local indie bookstore, of course. You can also support your local indie bookstore by shopping at bookshop.org, which allows you all the convenience of ordering online, but you get to pick your favorite indie bookstore to benefit. And then, of course course you can get it also from all of the big corporate retailers and it's available in hardcover and ebook and audiobook. And you can find me online at at Sim Kern on TikTok.

And if you search Sim Kern, it's at Sim BookstagramsBadly on Instagram. But if you just search SimCurrent, I'll pop up on Instagram. And that is S-I-M-K-E-R-N for people that don't know. Yes. Just to leave us with something that we can take away from this. Do you have any advice for people that are trying to open up these discussions with their peers? And how should they approach them. And I don't know, I think these conversations are essential to

humanizing Palestinians again. So do you have any advice before we sign off? You know, same advice, which was the first piece I gave, which was just to read a lot and learn a lot and seek out those Palestinian voices. Also, Jewish Voice for Peace, if you go to their jvp.org website, they have a ton of like great tools and kits for learning how to talk about Palestine. And so I would say, you know, always be learning and reading. If you feel like you don't have the language yet to have these conversations, like you said, it's really powerful to repost things by, you know, commentators that you respect, journalists on the ground in Gaza right now who are doing amazing, courageous work. Just letting people know what is happening and putting something out that disrupts an imperialist narrative can be really, really powerful. Thank you for saying all that because it's really needed.

And I will put in the description all the info to where you can follow Sim and their work. And maybe I can put some recommendations for Palestinian books as well. And yeah, that's the episode. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me free palestine it could happen here is a production of cool zone media for more podcasts from cool zone media visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts you can find sources sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. Step into the flames of right. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories

inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And we're kicking off our second season digging into Tex Elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from.

On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami.

Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.