It Could Happen Here - Biden’s Border Wall & The Threat to Friendship Park

Episode Date: July 15, 2022

James talks with Robert Vivar of friends of friendship park about immigration,  the border, and the threats to the last place people separated by it can meet each other.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking musica, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories,

combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about things that could happen or in today's case are about to happen. I want to talk to you today about the Friendship Park which exists between San Diego and Tijuana. If you haven't spent time at the border it's

difficult to understand how. Despite getting bigger and uglier every year it feels at once omnipresent and non-existent. Friendship Park was always one of the places where the border loomed but it never quite managed to beat out the tremendous feelings of goodwill you could experience there on a Saturday morning, on a piece of sand next to a steel fence that demarcates the end of the United States. Borders exist to control us, not to protect us, and it is never more apparent than it was at Friendship Park, where you could watch grandparents meeting grandkids

and dreamers checking in with their parents. At Friendship Park, a half-century-old institution that allowed families divided by the border to meet across the French, the border certainly didn't make anyone feel safer. But over time, people who had never set foot on the two miles of sand in Imperial Beach that many families walked across weekly to be together made laws that would make it even harder for those families to be together. For decades, the park was the only place these mixed immigration status families could come together. People flew from across the US to meet relatives who were trying to make the crossing north to join their friends and loved ones.

It was an emotional place, but most of the time it was a happy place. You could see kids having parties on the Mexican side, and sometimes concerts would take place, with the band split between two countries playing one tune. On the Tijuana side, the fence is covered in murals. At moments, it felt like a small victory over the pointless cruelty that happens here on a daily basis. The park itself was opened by Pat Nixon in 1951.

At the time, she said, I hope there won't be a fence here too long. Since then, the US government has built a secure fence in the 1990s under Bill Clinton, then a supposedly more secure fence following 9-11. Then it built the secondary wall in 2009. In 2012, a gate was installed to allow people to enter at certain times on weekends and meet their families separated by just one barrier. Now there are plans to replace that secondary wall by building a 30-foot wall under the pretense that the current structure is unsound. This new wall, made to the Trump design but built under Biden's instruction, will not have a gate, and the last place in the country

that families could touch and heal will be gone forever. Customs and Border Protection blocked access to Friendship Park in February 2020. Heavy rains that year forced state officials to temporarily close Borderfield State Park, the larger park in which Friendship Park is nestled. Since then, Border Patrol has not opened the gate that lets people unite briefly with their families. Their claim an influx of migrants has prevented them from having the staffing required to open the park. But on weekends, agents are posted up right by where the park gate is anyway, in case people try and make the crossing without permission,

in order to see the families that many of them have been separated from for over two years. Throughout those two years, I've crossed to Tijuana to report on the growing number of people who come from around the world, from Haiti, from Central and South America and Ethiopia, and recently Ukraine, to name but a few countries. Despite the heartbreaking stories of danger, fear, and loss, and separation from the people they love, they haven't been able to file asylum claims

due to the Trump administration's spurious use of public health laws to severely and illegally limit asylum. I don't have time here to explain the entirety of the migrant protection protocol in Title 42, and I don't really want to either because the justification behind them isn't what's important. The cruelty they manifest is what's important. Joe Biden, who came to office promising a kinder approach, has defended some of these policies in court with his Department of Justice, and a particular cruelty of Title 42, which allowed authorities to expel migrants who arrived at US land borders, has persisted,

despite Biden's recent change of heart, because several states managed to sue successfully to keep it in place. In the midst of all this, more and more people have been separated by the border. Now, the Biden administration is looking to permanently close the one little island of hope that remained on a beach at the end of America. Obviously, a park with a massive fence doesn't solve a broken system, or make the cruelty any less cruel. But it was a place for healing, and kindness, and love and families. massive fence doesn't solve a broken system or make the cruelty any less cruel. But it was a place for healing and kindness and love and families. And now that place too is under threat. I caught up with Robert Vivard, a friend of Friendship Park,

to talk about the park, the threats to it, and what you can do to help. Robert, would you like to start off just by introducing yourself and explaining sort of where you fit in this, in the Friendship Park world and in the world of the border more generally? Absolutely, James. My name is Robert Bivar and I'm part of the Friendship Park core leadership group. I'm so involved with Friendship Park and why Friendship Park is so important to me is because I was actually one of those family members that at one point in my life I was deported. And the only way that I was able to see some of my family was through the border wall there at Friendship Park. In particular, my son, who is active duty military, and because of his military status, you know,

was not able to come across the border, or it was very difficult for him to secure authorization from his command to be able to cross the border. And therefore, the only type of visit that I could have with my son and my granddaughters was through that border wall. So firsthand, I understood very well the importance of allowing on the weekends, at least for a few hours on the weekend, on the weekends, at least for a few hours on the weekend, that opportunity for families to be able to meet there at Friendship Park. Yeah.

So perhaps we should explain for people who aren't here in San Diego what Friendship Park is, right? Or perhaps what it was in, say, 2019 before it was shut. Absolutely. it was in say 2019 before it was shut absolutely uh back uh prior to covet uh friendship park is a uh by national park uh separated by a border wall of actually by two border walls on uh the southwestern tip of the United States bordering Mexico. It's a border between Imperial Beach and Tijuana Beach. And Friendship Park is actually a strip of land inside Porterfield State Park. And that strip of land is in between two border walls, fences if you if you may say so and that part is considered to us friendship park which is the area where

a person's families mixed status families from both sides of the border would meet these mixed status families from both sides of the border would meet. But it wasn't only a place for families to meet. It was also a place for people of good nature of the United States and Mexico to be able to meet and also extend their friendship between the two countries and the two communities. two countries and two communities. You know, back 50, almost 51 years ago, this is the area that then First Lady Pat Nixon actually inaugurated as International Friendship Park, and actually went as far as cutting a barbed wire or having the Secret Service cut the barbed wire there at the park. So she could reach across to the Mexico side and hug the people of Mexico because of the, you know, the sentiment, the feeling of that friendship between the two countries.

And, you know, her very famous words that she wished that there would no longer be a fence here to separate these two great countries and of course we know that uh uh 51 years later almost 51 years later uh that has taken an opposite uh course of direction uh where we now have two border walls. Plans are to erect two even higher, uglier gate walls to divide our two great countries. Yeah. So perhaps, again, I think people have a very... The way that people see the border when they don't live on the border is very different to the way we see the border when we live on the border right um and i think part of that is in this understanding of walls and fences and barriers and uh the various things which we have already along the border right so um maybe you could give us a little sort of potted history of the different uh i think

you're right they're secure fences right that were built uh through the friendship park and across the sort of san diego tijuana area right well uh you know again for the longest time the only uh fence that used to uh separate the two countries was that uh that strand of barbed wire uh however, after Operation Gatekeeper 9-11, it was decided to build a sturdier fence. And then in 2011, the secondary fence was erected. And at that time, the threat of the park being closed again because of the advocacy of Friends of Friendship Park, it was negotiated with Border Patrol that the park would continue to remain open with a limited access of, at that time, remain open with a limited access of at that time 25 persons at a time on Saturdays and Sundays from 10 o'clock in the morning to 2 o'clock in the afternoon. That second wall was erected when the federal government claimed eminent domain from the state of California and acquired that piece of land,

which is now considered the enforcement area, and to us is the area that we better know as Friendship Park. Right. And so there's a threat to the park now right there's a there's a new threat and i think people uh again like might not have realized that uh we're continuing to build border wall border barrier border dike it's sometimes called uh depending on which part of the country you're in but can you explain how despite joe biden having signed this executive order saying uh what he claims saying not one more mile of wall how are we still having this threat

of building a bigger uglier wall right and and you know i think that's uh that's precisely the question uh that friends of friendship park are asking that why is it that if President Biden has stated that he would not build one more inch of Trump's border wall, all of a sudden now has decided to finish the construction of Trump's border wall. of Trump's border wall. It's a question that we all ask. And as part of the petition that we have reached out to Border Patrol as to the inclusion of the public and in those plans on continuing the replacement

of that wall with 30-foot bollard fencing. Yeah, and that 30-foot bollard fencing, that's what people will be familiar with as the Trump wall, right? That is correct. Something that, you know, the fencing that exists right now, it's there. And I guess even though we may not like what it is and what it represents, but it is there. But now to go even further and further desecrate our park with two 30-foot baller style fences,

two 30 foot baller style, uh, the fences, uh, just completely, uh, obstructs the, the aesthetics of, of the park, uh, desecrates our park. Yeah. And so, yeah, with this sort of further threat to the park looming, you, you touched on it earlier, but I'd like to go back to like what the park means uh especially to families who are separated by the border right and can't cross to see each other oh absolutely uh you know on on uh when the park was open on on a weekly uh on a weekend basis now you know we would have families uh you know example, grandmothers that had never met their grandchildren, you know, meet their grandchildren for the first time right across that border wall. You know, mothers that hadn't seen their kids in 20, 25, 30 years, you know, the joy of, you know, of being able to at least see them across that border wall and just a couple inches away from them.

And even though nothing could pass through that barrier, the only thing that was able to pass through the orifice there on the wall or the fencing was the tip of your finger, which is why we kind of created what we call the pinky kiss because that's the only thing that would reach across and that's the only way we would be able to hug and kiss our loved ones on the other side of the border um very significant and you know something that um uh that we hope more people would understand is that you know by having the

park open and families allowed to be able to visit across that fence it would allow people even though it's not the best scenario but at least it would give people it would give families the opportunity to remain being a family, to have a little bit of contact with their loved ones, something very important. We keep hearing about reasons for, you know, border walls and more tech and security and so forth because incursions. Well, to us, this is one of the reasons why, you know, we is because incursions. Well, to us, this is one of the reasons why we have more incursions, because people get desperate from losing contact with their loved ones,

that they're willing to risk their own life to be able to reach their loved ones. That's why you have decrease in people trying to swim across the border well. That's why you have people reaching out to further points in the desert trying to reach their loved ones. That's why you have people climbing some of these 30-foot walls and falling and, you know, bravely injuring themselves because you get to the point that your family is everything in your life and you're willing to risk your life to reach that family. When Friendship Park was open, we had a lot of conversations with a lot of people that came to the park to visit their families. energizing and motivating to continue to fight uh to search for a legal opportunity to be able to reunite with their loved ones yeah and i think we should point out that like since 2020 since the park has been closed it's not just the park being closed which has created like a hostile environment

for people seeking asylum or seeking to reunite with their families in the united states right we've had the migrant protection protocol uh which is better known as remain in mexico right and we've had title 42 uh sometimes called catch and release both of which do the same things that you say which is for increase the amount of people who cross in high-risk areas and increase the danger to migrants chiefly and so there's this there's this perception i think that things changed in january 2021 but they didn't i think for most people certainly people i've met trying to come to united states to be safe um they still can't and as you say they they still can't see their families and perhaps we should also mention that like

sometimes we talk about um friendship park being binational but it's more than that right like it's not just uh people from mexico who come to meet their families at friendship park it's a it's there's people from all around the world who are unable to come to the United States but are in Tijuana, right? Right, absolutely. And it's not just families that gather there. It's friendships. It's an opportunity for people from any part of the world to be able to make a connection, make a friend right across that border

while without actually having to cross the border. If for whatever reason it may be, they cannot come across to the Mexico side. You know, the part is all about friendship. That's why to First Lady Pat Nixon was so important, the nation of the park, in consideration of the great friendship that existed and has always existed. And you know what? No matter what happens, that is going to continue because in particular, San Diego and Tijuana, we're really one community. There's a tremendous population in San Diego that have relatives in Tijuana and vice versa. And it's not only, you know, the family, but commerce, you know, we're one community. And one way or another, you know, people are going to stay connected,

always figure out different ways to be able to remain connected and have that friendship. connected and have that friendship. And I think part of the reason for that is because, you know, a lot of people see that border fence and they see a barrier, but we see that much more than that barrier is the barrier in our heart. And with, you know, the people of our community, that barrier doesn't exist. The only barrier to us is that, uh, that fence, uh, the barrier in our heart does not exist because, uh, we have respect for each other and, and we consider ourselves. Uh, friends at one community on both sides of that border wall. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think it's, uh, yeah, yeah, the border exists a lot more

sort of on the ground than it does in the community here. And I think so many thousands of people cross every day, it's really odd to have it presented as this hard, impenetrable thing. And then it's also just an annoyance and a reason that we sit in our cars for hours trying to cross north. Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill.

Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors I know you. Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Check out betteroffline.com. I wonder if we can talk a little bit about, because there's a friendship park and then there's the southern side, right? Parque de la Amistad. What's the official sort of setup in Mexico with regards to the park? It's a little different from the U.S., right? Yeah. Well, you know, the big difference on the Mexico side is,

like our pastor John Fannister says, on the Mexico side is one big party. You know, one big friendly, happy atmosphere, just like what you would expect to find-friendly park where people go to enjoy a beautiful park. our our friends on the u.s side uh cannot enjoy the park as uh as much as the our friends on the mexico side do because of these uh limitations uh on the park yeah it's a shame like you say it's very contrasting like the u.s side is kind of difficult to get to and it's only open um certain hours it's not open at all post we should explain that right so it was closed in 2020 uh for covid and then if i understand right following that it remained closed because border patrol were understaffed they claim right that is uh what we have been told at friends of friendship park originally that uh it was closed because of COVID and the understanding was that when the COVID

situation was over, then that their plan was to reopen Friendship Park. However, now we're being told that because of a lack of personnel, that they're not able to staff it accordingly to be able to open it. You know, you touched a little bit earlier on the MPP program. You know, if there has been increasing incursions into the U.S., a lot of it has to do with the asylum process that has been halted for the last couple of years that forces people in desperation to take their life at risk and try to gain entry into the U.S. understand if you're living in a country where crime and violence is widespread and you have a choice whether you leave your country and travel three four thousand miles to reach some kind of safety to protect the life of your of your loved ones of your family family, you know, you're, you're going to, you're going to,

if you risk that, you're going to, you're going to risk, you know, your life trying to get across it and protect your family. And if the only way you can do it is by jumping over that fence or swimming around that ocean, it, you know, that's what we've seen happening. And a lot of that has got to do with the asylum process that has been shut down and continues to be shut down. People are going to continue to try to save their life and their life of their family. continue to try to save their life and their life of their family. That's why we're hoping that the asylum process can be reinstated as international law requires, calls for it.

That would definitely show a decrease in incursions. Again, you know, a lot of these incursions are people trying to reach safety for themselves and their loved ones. Yeah, and it's been a very difficult situation in Tijuana for a lot of people, a lot of people who've arrived since MPP started. Like for a while, people were camping at the border crossing, right?

But in town, like at Pedwest. Yeah, that is correct. Yeah, it's also sort of forcing all these shelters and nonprofits in Tijuana to saddle the burden, which they do a very good job with, largely. But we're this massive, richest on the on earth and we just could have shut the door at the minute and saying like you're not welcome right that that uh that is absolutely correct welcome i'm danny thrill won't you join me at the fire and dare enter?

Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters, to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds

and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. The 2025 iHeart Podcast Awards are coming. This is the chance to nominate your podcast for the industry's biggest award. Submit your podcast for nomination now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th. Hey, you've been doing all that talking. It's time to get rewarded for it.

Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex Elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field,

and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough,

so join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. So I know that you've been doing some events at Friendship Park, right? You've got a concert coming up. Could you tell us about that?

Yes, absolutely. We have a concert coming up for our 51st anniversary. And the headliner for the concert is a gentleman known as the father of Mexican rock and roll, which began here, I'm saying here, which began in Tijuana, Mexico, Javier Batiste. And, you know, what is really neat is that Javier Batiste was actually the mentor of Carlos Santana. And, you know, we all love the music of Carlos Santana,

an incredible performer. Well, he had his start with Javier Batiste at one point here in Tijuana, Mexico. I keep saying here I'm in San Diego, in Tijuana, Mexico. And, you know, Javier is an icon of rock and roll music and of Tijuana. And, you know, what I think is really special about this concert is speaking to Javier. You know, his ideals are very much along the ideals of what Friendship Park is all about. And, you know, friendship puts a smile on people's face. And that was something that Javier told me personally.

I love to play my music because my music puts a smile on people's face and I like to make people happy. That's great. And, you know, that's the whole idea behind Friendship Park, to make people happy, to have people enjoy a beautiful park, enjoy their families, enjoy the friendship across the border that we have. Yeah, exactly. And I think it's very sad. The whole sort of canard is very sad right

like the idea that um we don't have it we have enough money to build a giant steel barrier but not enough money to open this place up for you know a few hours a week for people to see their families and enjoy themselves enjoy that time together it just seems almost uh but pointlessly cruel i guess um which i don't, sometimes a lot of the immigration system seems pointlessly cruel to me. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Um, then you separate a mother from a child that is cruel when you won't allow a

mother and a child to even be able to gather for a couple hours a week separate from a barrier that's very cruel uh when you don't allow people of good nature of goodwill uh to visit even though it is across a barrier that is not true yeah i think it's important that people across the country like obviously like it can be really difficult to care about everything right like it's it's a pretty difficult time with the supreme court decisions and seemingly sort of non-stop mass shootings it's a difficult time for everyone i think but like um i think it's important that people realize that the border is where a lot of these policies get tried for the first time, right?

These things which, like if we look at the way that privacy of people living on the border has been eroded for a very long time, and that's happening to other people. It happened in 2020, right? It was a border patrol drone that was flying over Minneapolis during the protests. And so if people want to push back and to show solidarity and support, how can they support the park?

And how maybe can they support the people who are stuck in Tijuana and want to cross but aren't allowed to cross because of MPP or Title 42 or restrictive asylum legislation? Well, what we're asking people to do if, you're in the Southern California area, rain or shine, we go ahead and continue having events at Friendship Park on the US side, like our bike rides, our Native Flora workshops, our Border Church on Sundays at 1.30 in the afternoon. We invite people to come and join us. Come and join us on a bike ride come and join us on border church and show your your support for the need uh to continue the work that had been done for so many years at friendship park in support of our binational

families and our binational community uh also very important contact contact your congressman, contact your senator. for us before Homeland Security, before the Secretary of Homeland Security, so they may understand the importance of the Friendship Park offers, not only to the families, but to our communities. You can secure a border a lot better through friendship than through border walls that at a given moment can be breached, as we have seen they have occurred. The strongest security that anybody can ever have is a good, strong relationship on both sides of the border. Yeah, I think that's very well said.

So if people want to come to Friendship Park, can you just explain how they would get to one of these events and where they have to go? Absolutely. What I would recommend is follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram accounts, Friendship Park, and also our website, friendshippark.org, where we have information on all the different events on our border church. This way you can join us on the U.S. side, or if you want to come to the Mexico side, it is wide open. You can go directly right to

the monument area where you can enjoy this great, beautiful monument to commemorate the demarcation of the two countries. You can enjoy it either way, but we do like and we stress people to come out and join us on the U.S. side so that, you know, we're not forgotten. So that this beautiful piece of land, Borderfield State Park, known as Friendship Park, is not forgotten. And not only that, you know, enjoy the beauty of the park. We have a beautiful park there, Borderfield State Park,

adjacent to Friendship Park. Something that very few people have been taking advantage of lately. We've had quite a few more visitors out there, horseback riding, bicycling, a few families out taking a dip in the ocean uh but this is a beautiful beach that that we have there on the u.s side and welcome you know our uh our community uh we're uh san diego to community to come and enjoy this well. And the, you know, as you come and enjoy it, you support our efforts to demonstrate the need to keep our park open. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's a very, yeah, it's, it's not hard for people to help. And I hope they will. How long do we have? Do you think, how long do we have before they break ground on this new wall? Right. We're not sure how long we have. We were told that it was a matter of weeks. Does that mean two weeks, three weeks? It's hard to say, but we know that it could happen at any at any time.

And maybe we've observed several crews out there doing surveys and such of the area. So we know that it's any moment there should be breaking ground. And we hope that before that ground breaks, that they will consider our request. And public breaks that they will consider our request and uh you know uh for public uh uh uh for public uh support for uh public input as to what the park should look like uh you know give that consideration uh to um you know if you're gonna you're going to replace walls to make sure that, you know,

that gates are allotted so that these visits can continue. Because as we understand, there's no provision at this point for any kind of gate for, you know, for person access, for people access into the area. That of course tells you that there's no intention of continuing at one point to open the park for the visits. And of course that's extremely concerning. Yeah, especially for people separated by the border. Okay, so just to finish up,

can you give us those social medias and web addresses again where people can find you and help? Sure, absolutely. Our website is www.friendshippart.org The Facebook, you can find us under Friendship Part.

You can also find information under Order Church. Great. All right. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk. I know it's a busy time for you. You're very welcome. Thank you for the opportunity to be here with you today. Thank you. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media.

For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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