It Could Happen Here - Border Solidarity Roundtable

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

James sits down with @borderkindness and @Pedroconsafos of @AFSCSanDiego to discuss their mutual aid response to the ongoing open air detention of asylum seeking refugees, and how listeners can help.�� Donations AFSC San Diego https://secure.everyaction.com/INKv-BzUs0qiNp8THpg1rg2  Border Kindness Venmo Venmo.com/border-kindness Cashapp https://cash.app/borderkindnesscash Zelle /paypal [e-mail] See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hi everyone, it's me James. And just before you hear the episode, I'd want to warn you that you can hear our telephones going absolutely mental for much of this episode. That's because as we were recording, people found out that SDG&E, San Diego Gas and Electric, were restricting access to one of the sites where migrants were in need of aid. People were very concerned about that. So they were reaching out to James and Jacqueline jacqueline and pedro to ask for assistance and to me to let me know if i could get the word out um that's why you can hear our phones going crazy and i think it it's it's good that it's in there in a sense because perhaps you

can get a sense of how mad the last few uh weeks have been for for everyone like our phones have constantly been going off i'm sure mine a lot less than James and Jacqueline's and Pedro's because people are overwhelmed and they need more help than we're able to give. So consider that background noise a blessing and I hope you enjoy the episode. Thanks. Hi everyone, it's me, James, today and I'm here again to talk about the border. Today I'm joined by some guests. I'm joined by some guests. I'm joined by James and Jacqueline from Border Kindness, who we've heard from before. And I'm also joined by Pedro Rios from the American Friends Service Committee. If you guys would like to introduce yourselves and explain the kind of role you play along

the border, that'd be wonderful. If we start with Pedro, because folks haven't heard from him before, that would be great. Great. Thank you, James. And it's such an honor to be on the show together with folks from Border Kindness, James and Jacqueline. It's great to see you. Again, my name is Pedro Rios. I'm director of the American Friends Service Committee's U.S.-Mexico Border Program, which is a Quaker-based human rights organization. I've been on staff now for 20 years working in San Diego on border issues. And it's been a whirlwind of

two decades of work, being able to follow this topic. Our work primarily focuses on border issues. And we have four components, one of which is documenting civil and human rights abuses that occur when contact goes awry between primarily federal immigration authorities with members of civil society, including migrants and border community residents. Documentation could be cases involving abusive practices, abusive policies, cases involving abuse of authority, and so on and so forth. We also do a lot of policy analysis and advocacy at the local level, at the state level, and at the federal level, trying to hold agencies accountable, making them more transparent,

ensuring that there are oversight mechanisms and how they operate. And that's done in conjunction with several coalitions at the county-wide level in San Diego, but also at the national level with the Southern Border Communities Coalition and other organizations as well. And then we obviously work in allyship with a lot of other organizations that have campaigns of mutual interest, some of which have been going on for a long time, such as Friendship Park and trying to gain access, public access to Friendship Park,

which currently is being impacted by the construction of two 30-foot border walls. And we also work directly with community members in providing information about what the rights are, how they can become and are leaders in their own communities, and how they can be active in straightening their communities and providing guidance to other people who might be in the same circumstances. So in a nutshell, that's the work that we do. Yeah, great. It's very important work. And then James and Jacqueline, do you want to explain?

Folks are familiar, I think, with Border Kindness from the previous episode, but maybe what have you been doing in the last, I can't remember, two weeks since people started being held out in the open again? So in our organization is kind of always evolving with like the evolving needs at the border. And over the last, I want to say like year in particular, we've really started to emphasize our services being present in the rural border. We're based in Mexicali primarily. Our water drops are generally in the Imperial Valley region. And we started to extend our services to the rural community in San Diego County with regards to like day labor, providing aid to the migrant community that's living in rural communities. So all that to say, when the border appeared to be having one of its episodes of chaos

that's happened in the last couple of weeks, with folks being detained between the walls down in San Isidro, and then folks being just dumped out into the street at the transit centers that we've been seeing all over San Diego County we sort of held off because we knew this was going to happen in Hukumba it was kind of one of those sixth sense kind of things like when you see the writing on the wall and it was like only a matter of time before people ended up pushed into rural San Diego County. And unfortunately, that has been the case. So we were actually out in the desert doing a water drop and heard that that, in fact, had occurred.

And there were hundreds of people in Hukumba. So we've been out there providing aid ever since. Yeah. So perhaps we could describe these so there are like three things i think people would benefit from knowing about one is the detention of people between the walls in san isidro which i think pedro has seen a lot of i've seen we've seen each other down there several days the detention of folks in the open desert in jacumba and this this dumping of migrants at various transit centers across the county.

Those are the three things that we've seen in massive numbers this last couple of weeks. So perhaps we could start with explaining Hukumba and then Pedro can take on explaining the other two, because I know he's been responding to those. Can you just tell us what you saw, the number of people the conditions in which they're being held and that that kind of stuff yeah um usually what we're seeing now i mean now it's currently what today what is today wednesday so i know it is yeah yeah i woke up this morning this morning and asked Jacqueline what day it was because it seems like a blur, you know, to three camps every day um there's a camp on the east side in hukumba there's a camp that's on the west side of hukumba and there's a camp that's just outside hukumba and boulevard that seems to be the biggest camp right now

that's just outside of kumban boulevard that seems to be the biggest camp right now uh that camp is the largest one because it's kind of hidden uh you gotta drive down from the the main highway you have to drive you know at least 15 minutes you know down some dirt roads back roads you know past ranches and stuff like that to get to that open air camp where the other ones, especially like we saw in May, were more like wide open, closer to the towns, closer to visibility, closer to highway access. And so what we've noticed is that speaking with the locals and seeing for ourselves that every day the camps that are more visible are having less people coming in and they're being taken out faster and so that part i think is you know could be done for for a multitude of reasons but the camp that's hidden and out of view is the one that seems kind of strategic and seems calculated you on on a greater level that as people are being loaded up on vans or buses to be taken out for processing

almost the same amount of people gets walked in to that camp from the actual border uh by border patrol so it it is definitely uh an odd situation that's going on there it seems definitely calculated orchestrated and something that um you know we feel that will be going on for quite a while yeah let's um when we talk about that right so like people are crossing uh and then being being transported like you say on foot by border patrol to the camp that that's your understanding right to that camp in That's your understanding, right? To that camp near Boulevard, I'll say. I don't want to give the exact location.

Correct. Yes. We witnessed that as well. We witnessed on Monday night that we were there to help distribute food and warm supplies. And I think a total of five or six Border patrol vans had, you know, about 100 people or so lined up and loaded up onto those vans. saw in the distance in the opposite direction border patrol their truck driving behind a group of roughly 80 85 um you know new migrants coming in on foot yeah right around there's a gap in the fence yeah i saw people walking in i was there the day before you guys so i was there early actually i was there only monday morning and i saw the same thing like, you know, sort of just after dawn. I couldn't make out who was walking whom just because it was dark.

Can you explain briefly, and then we'll move to Pedro's situation. Can you explain the services that are provided for them by Border Patrol? And then what is provided for them by volunteers? By Border Patrol, it's essentially nothing um when this occurred in may we heard that at most people were receiving an eight ounce bottle of water daily um not really organ distributed in an organized manner currently we're observing that people are when they arrive they're at times provided with a 16 ounce bottle of water and potentially a little toddler size pack of goldfish crackers um border patrol is not providing any other continued services food shelter sanitation anything like that um those things have all been organized at a community

level by a variety of organizations such as ours that's comprised of just regular people. So it's the government's task of managing a humanitarian crisis. They have like really outsourced it to the general community of supporters. like really outsourced it to the general community of supporters. So they have taken not just the role of not having any responsibility towards caring for migrants in like the most basic manner, but it also seems like they have come to expect the general community to come in and fill the gaps that they're not meeting. So border patrol is not providing them with anything.

It's everyday regular people that are showing up with blankets, food, water, hygiene items. It's getting really cold. So people are distributing warm clothing, diapers, formula, anything that people need is being provided by the community. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good summary, I think. So, Pedro, could you explain how the situation is in San Isidro and then also at the transit centers? It's a pretty similar situation, I think.

Yeah, sure. I'll start with San Isidro. And the location where community members and organizations have set up is known as Whiskey 8. There are at least three other locations that we know where encampments have formed. One is Whiskey 4, which is close to the Las Americas Shopping Mall. It's an outlet mall closer to the port of entry. And then about a mile west of Whiskey 8, there's Spooner's Mesa. And then close to that, there's 91X. There's Spooner's Mesa.

And then close to that, there's 91X. The Spooner's Mesa is primarily where the men's encampment has been arranged. And this happened back in May. There was an incident where Border Patrol decided to move all the single adult men and walk them, march them essentially about a mile up a hill and then up another hill to get to Spooner's Mesa. After some advocacy last week, we convinced Border Patrol to allow two of us to go up there to feed about anywhere between 380 and 400 men. And it took us over an hour, about an hour and 15 minutes to feed all of the men fortunately we just barely had enough food for all of them this was in the evening and as we were driving in and driving out all we could see was mylar blankets strewn about and that's all that was up there

and these were the men that were these Mylar blankets. Down in Whiskey 8, how community members and organizations have arranged the solidarity support stations have been in four sets. So you have the charging station, you have the medical supplies and other items station. Then you have the food station and then the water station. And so we try to maintain the medical supplies. The food station is available only when we have enough food to provide sustenance to everyone there. We don't want to create a situation where we only serve half of the people or a quarter of the people and then the other people go hungry. And mind you, it's important to point out that when people arrive there, they are hungry, they are thirsty. Some of them have scrapes because they scale the primary border barrier and injure themselves.

Others are wet because they've walked through the canal to get to that location. on several occasions where Border Patrol will tell people who are injured to walk towards our location because they tell them that that's where we will provide them with medical care. Now, I think it's important to mention that under Customs and Border Protection, which is a parent agency of the Border Patrol under their national standards for how they are supposed to transport, escort, detain and search people under their custody. They are obligated to feed, to provide water, to provide shelter, to treat medical urgencies anytime that individuals are under their custody. individuals are under their custody. There is some back and forth. Border Patrol locally will say that individuals are not under their custody until they are being transported, even though they will provide them with a wristband or a bracelet. In some cases, tell them to remove their shoelaces.

Direct them to where they should be walking. Yell at them when they're not forming in lines in order to be picked up, sometimes throw a fit and will not pick people up even though they're supposed to be there to do that because people are not in lines as quickly as they should be. All of this to several of our organizations indicate that Border Patrol to some degree has people under their custody and as such um is violating the these national standards because it's not meeting their needs at any level besides maybe the bottle of water might provide and the one or two granola bars they provide per day if even that yeah i think it's a the national border patrol pio also claimed to me that they were not detaining people and that people were free to quote return to mexico which like these people aren't from mexico and in many cases uh and like

i think the first day i maybe i saw you speaking to one family who had come from mexico but the vast majority of people weren't. And they'd also be entering Mexico between ports of entry because they're in the United States at this time. So yeah, it's just not, those people are like, there's lots of evidence that they're being detained, even if they say they're not. Welcome, I'm Danny Trejo.

Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. shifters this is the podcast for you we're talking real conversations with our latin stars from actors and artists to musicians and creators sharing their stories struggles and successes you know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love each week we'll

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digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if

we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. What then happens to those people they we've all seen it right these vans pull up they generally process people uh in a certain order which which is to take unaccompanied minors and women who are alone with children and then families and then single adults um what happens to them once they get on that van do we do we have a clear sense of that and where they end up they will be taken to any one of several border patrol stations for processing

and it's at that processing stage where most of them who are in these locations are there because they want to present themselves to the authority and begin an asylum claim. And so it's how they answer the questions while being processed that they get tracked mostly for asylum. There are some that will be quickly removed from the country expeditiously, but most of them will be tracked for asylum. They will be given a court date when they should show up and that court date, the court location depends on where the final destination will be. Technically,

Mexicans can only be detained for 48 hours. Non-Mexicans can only be detained no more than 72 hours. So within that detention period, they then are being transported to one of four locations in San Diego County, two of which are in San Diego, the San Ysidro Transit Center and the Iris Transit Center, one in Oceanside and the other in El Cajon. And so we're seeing the majority of the people being transported to San Ysidro and to Iris. And that's where colleagues with other sister organizations are leading the charge to try to support them with assisting in charging phones, providing food, clothing, getting them to the airport, getting them transportation, getting them housing, and as much as limited as that's possible, trying to connect them with

lost family members because families have been separated there are adult children 18 19 who also are trying to figure out where their family members are and in some cases as a conversation i had with the man from venezuela he had no idea what city he was at he didn't know he was in san diego and so trying to make that type of uh arrangement and clarification is always challenging as well. Yeah. And obviously also expensive, right? Like these things all place burdens on like your donation network and both in sort of the community in general. And perhaps we can talk about like, because the scale of support that's been provided by the community is extremely impressive.

about like because the scale of support that's been provided by the community is extremely impressive um given how many people have already come through this sort of uh not detention detention system um but perhaps both of you could talk about like the support you've been able to provide and how people who are not in san diego can help you continue to provide that support? So the first day that we heard folks coming in, because obviously it's interesting because Border Patrol, like Pedro says, like they're claiming that these people are not under their care, but they're very much acting as if they're under their detained care. They're telling people that if they call an ambulance to seek medical care, as we observed, they say, well, that's going to affect your case if you leave. And so people are very much under the deliberate impression that they are being detained, but they're not

being cared for in the most basic way. And so we first responded on Saturday. By Sunday, we were there with 500 meals. That went very, very quickly. Providing shelter items for people. So tarps. Hakumba is a very rugged desert terrain. There is no shade in these areas. So people are making sort of like makeshift shelters, but there is nothing shielding them from the sun, which is really unrelenting all day and it gets up to the 90s.

So we've been providing tarps, pop-ups, that sort of thing. So people are not becoming sick from overexposure. We're providing hygiene items. We're providing just basic needs. And that gets incredibly expensive because if it was a static situation, such as in May, when there was 1,800 to 2,000 people, that was a huge undertaking that also took a lot of community collaboration to meet the needs of so many people. But this time around, collaboration to meet the needs of so many people. But this time around, as James says, it's like a revolving door of hundreds and hundreds of people. So it's taking hundreds and hundreds. Well, at any given time, there may be only and I say only two to 300 people. It doesn't mean that to only two to 300 people needed to be fed that day. It's that, you know,

that is who is there at that time. And when people arrive, as Pedro said, like they haven't eaten in days. We talked to people that said that they took two days to walk to Hakumba. So if they arrive to Tijuana without much food in their belly, and then they're having to walk for two days, they're arriving starving and begging for food and not being provided with absolutely anything. So if it wasn't for all of the organizations that are showing up and taking sort of shifts to feed people, there would be nothing for them. And we have absolutely no idea how long this is going to go on. It could be over today. It can go on for months, year.

I mean, we really don't know what to expect. And organizations are being relied on to provide, you know, life-sustaining care for people, but we're not being communicated with from Border Patrol as to basically anything. What the outlook is um what the numbers are what the updates of how the situation is going to evolve so every day is a surprise and we need to have resources to be able to meet the needs of that day it's incredibly like consuming of every

resource including time and gas is six dollars a gallon yeah yeah now and you need to drive your truck right because like you can't get to some of the locations like i know i i have a bigger truck and lots of my friends about to catch a ride with me because their cars can't make it there exactly like we have people that have gas efficient low priuses and stuff and they're going to bottom out out there so So we have our huge lifted Jeep that, you know, doesn't get as much gas mileage as something, but it's also going to be able to get the supplies out there. So every aspect of it is incredibly consuming of resources. Um, and we don't know what to expect. It's not, it's hard to budget and you don't know what to expect so the community

has obviously come together in support but then it's like well how do we manage this when we don't we can't forecast what's going on um so it's tough it's definitely tough we need sustained support if i may add on that as jaclyn said the people are showing up hungry haven't eaten for days you know we get reports that you know people are showing up just begging for food and the federal government more specifically dhs more specifically cbp border patrol know this specifically CBP border patrol know this they're trying to stall people out and whatever the end game is it maybe it's just another arm of you know prevention through deterrence it's cruel it's on purpose people you know are are the pawns and whatever you know game is being played and

it's cruel and that's you know we're doing being played and it's cruel. And that's, you know, we're doing what we can to try to offset that as much as possible. But cruelty is definitely there all across the border. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters,

to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Sh as part of my cultura podcast network available on the iheart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast hi i'm ed zitron host of the better offline podcast and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tex elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search,

Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though.

I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game.

If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything

from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral.

Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just to kind of build on what James said, I think it's very easy for this construct of migrants to always be this sort of demonized other.

Fox News and KUSI and all these outlets do that very well. But I think it's really important to the people who we're being cruel to. I saw a lady breastfeeding in the desert on Sunday night. I've seen grandparents. I've seen people who are eight months pregnant. Little children. These aren't people who have done anything wrong. And they just, for whatever reason they're coming here,

it doesn't really matter. They don't deserve to be treated like that. And like James said, it's something of an induced, like I've been to natural disasters all over the world and reported on those and seen those. And I've been to refugee camps all over the world. But like, it seen those and have been to refugee camps all over the world but like it's something of a unique to the u.s problem that our federal government can click its fingers and induce a humanitarian crisis and then like hold your hands up in the air and say

we can't help you like that like aside from dictatorial regimes in places i've reported in like the people don't governments don't do that very often. And like James said, it's these people who pay the price. It's not us for the most part. Pedro, could you maybe explain a little bit of how American Foreign Service Committee has been able to respond and the resources you've used and how you can help make this a little bit less painful for the people

who are being held in between the fences? Sure. Learning from the experience that we had back in March, April and May, we heard a few weeks ago that there were people lined up in an area that we could not see from the US side, but could be seen from the Mexican side, just west of the San Isidro port of entry with people wearing and using Mylar blankets. And so the Mylar blankets were an indication to us that people were there for probably longer than four hours. And so we kept monitoring that, asking colleagues in Tijuana to inform us if they had seen any other groups like that.

And off and on over the past month there were reports of that and it wasn't until about two weeks ago that someone said that they were there for a long period of time so last week we set up what we called an observation post at Whiskey 8 so that we could determine for ourselves how long people were there what sort of needs they might have, and how to respond, whether to set up the solidarity support stations again. And quickly, we determined that that's what we needed to do. So we called our colleagues from other organizations. Universidad Popular, for instance, has been extremely helpful in leading the charge in

different places. helpful in leading the charge in different places. The Free Shit Collective, which is a mutual group, also has been extremely important in having their people out there. And Friends of Friendship Park also has been important. So all these organizations that responded quickly and started to build from the experience

that we had back in late spring, setting up these stations to charge phones phones are a lifeline for people and back in may border patrol threatened us and they said if you want to keep feeding people you can't be charging their phones and so we said well we're going to have to keep charging phones because people need them and unfortunately board patrol backed off then and and now it's part of what we do right we charge phones and and it's how people are able to communicate with their loved ones especially if they've been separated meeting people it's just as as much as we're able to even if it's just a sandwich even if it's um a warm meal that we're able to get through the bars or the secondary border barrier.

That could mean the difference between someone staying healthy or someone becoming seriously ill. Bandaging up small cuts could relieve someone from getting an infection. Identifying when medical emergencies pop up. So an eight month pregnant person who is suddenly having labor pains and having a needing to call 911, for instance, or insisting with Border Patrol that the one month old child cannot remain overnight in between border walls and just insisting and insisting and insisting. Insisting that the two port-a-potties that they have there need to be serviced for instance and so all of this advocacy is happening at the same time that our colleagues and allies are also feeding people and the constant communication with different elected officials pushing on them to take charge and to respond has been one of the different aspects of our response to what is a humanitarian disaster that has been slowly

evolving, I would say, over years and years because human migration isn't centered around humanitarian needs and human rights. It's been centered around enforcement, around militarization, around cruel deterrence, as James was talking about, which creates conditions where people are led to suffer. And that's what we're seeing right now. People suffering because of how this has been manufactured, how immigration has been dealt with, regardless of who's in the White House, over and over and over. And so now we're challenged to respond to these humanitarian needs in ways that are stretching our limits, but we're able to do it

and hopefully lifting up the dignity of people that are placed under these terrible, inhumane conditions. Yeah, I think it's very important to give people a little bit of dignity as much as we can. One thing that you mentioned that we haven't spoken about and we should is elected officials and local, federal, state governments. How much support, if any, have either of these sites received from people in elected office? You know, we have had support from Senator Steve Padilla's office. That's been, to me, impressive to see how much interest there is, how much advocacy there is from staff from that office. We have not necessarily had much support from congressional or federal senators. We have not seen them really on the ground. There is a

responsibility, I believe, that the County of San Diego has to meet some of these challenging circumstances at the transit centers. They're balking, I feel, and to the detriment of people who need these services and need the support. I believe the San Diego Police Department has been suggesting where people should be dropped off and not listening to folks on the ground about how the iris station should be central and not dividing the drop-offs between iris and sunny Cedarville, for instance. So there's a lot of, a lot of necessity for local governments to be coordinating with state and

federal governments. And, and that's lacking again, to the detriment of people who are caught in the middle. How about James and Jacqueline? Have you seen any sort of government support? No, not at all. I've heard through channels of sources that work for the county and they claim that they're handcuffed or that it's border patrol's responsibility and the border patrol is saying it's the county's responsibility and it just it seems like uh pointing fingers no one's trying to take you know responsibility for it and maybe

that's because it's going to be something that's going to go on for a while. It's not something that either wants to take on the responsibility of. And you've seen county supervisors speak out against it, pushing the blame. People are here. This is San Diego County. This is the United States. Someone needs to take care of the people here. That's, that's the role of the government. That's why people pay taxes for, you know,

for services and services need to be provided for, you know, we pay taxes so other people can get services as well. Citizens, non-citizens like that. To me, it seems so easy. In theory. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's everything that you've been told, but everything that you're not seeing, you know, in practice. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's everything that you've been told, but everything that you're not seeing, you know, in practice. So, I mean, this whole thing is to us on the ground, it seems so simple of how it should be done, but like, you know, anytime,

and we spoke on it, I think on the last episode as well, like money's big issues, you're going to spend all this money. They need to make sure that their money is going in the right pockets that they want it to yeah like i was sitting out in uh in hakumba with a with a colleague and uh we got overflown by a uh-60 black hawk like a border patrol helicopter and it just hovered around checking us out and like it's just so i don't know it's just so depressing to see this helicopter which costs millions of dollars, which costs thousands of dollars just to take off, next to the border wall which costs $12 million a mile. On the same day that the San Diego City Council filed an amicus brief in the case of the Supreme Court to allow it to further criminalize unhoused people, we have all

these resources and we're just throwing them as pedro said enforcement and criminalization of the most marginalized people in our communities rather than giving a thirsty person a bottle of water or like a little baby a blanket and yeah it's really hard it's one of those agents over time of the day could literally feed everybody there. We're all like, you know, calculating calories per dollar of like the meal and trying to get like every single dollar to stretch because we don't know how long this is going to go on because we know that public perception and interest is something that is not sustained. And that's on purpose too, because for instance,

border patrol is claiming and they were on what, what outlet was it? CBS, CBS eight, local San Diego said made a report that the Hukuma camps are cleared. There's no one's there. I just, you know, I had to step away from this, this recording for a few to get a update that there are people still showing up there's getting trying to get cleared out as quick as possible as people show up because it's in the public eye but also now the power company is threatening uh legal action and criminal action against any aid orgs or people that show up oh great cool um that'll

be fun yeah i mean yeah the reporting on this has been poor poor even more poor than it was in may i'll say like out in hukumba yeah it's hard to get to james and i both spent a decent chunk of yesterday morning trying to direct people how to not get lost out there um but like i think more pertinently when there is not an election or like a narrative that migration fits in it gets certainly by national outlets forgotten um with the end of title 42 in may i think everyone had their like uh sort of doomsday op-eds in in the weeks beforehand. And then that didn't actually happen in the way that it had been sort of like quote-unquote experts who don't come to the border

very often had predicted it would. And so folks turned up, especially at Whiskey 8 and did their sort of crisis story. But we haven't seen that this time. And, you know, now it's appearing really different because like you see sort of the management by border patrol of the situation in order to sort of shield the public from like the true level of the crisis so in claiming that the boomba has been cleared i suppose that's technically correct if they're referring to the you know they're they're relying on quality in order to

so people the average everyday person that's not immersed in this is going to read that and be like oh good it's been cleared because like my family back home knows a lot of like really conservative folks out in the imperial valley and like even the most conservative people I knew back in May were like, oh my gosh, how could they have babies out there in the desert? That's so horrible. And people had, you know, a lot of really strong emotions to seeing families huddled in the desert for a week. Now it seems like there's a really deliberate management of like the PR

with respect to this situation. So yeah, like relying on the technicality of Hakumba being cleared because the main camp in town has been cleared, but 10, 15 minutes away, there's still hundreds of people. And we're the ones that are out on social media screaming into the void and to each other, hey, this is still happening. People are, you know, there's an amputee out here whose leg is bleeding there is someone out here who hasn't had his heart medication for a week like those kind of situations are occurring still while the report and the public perception is like oh hakuma's been cleared it's all good so unless somebody's like already involved they're generally not hearing

about it and i think that's on purpose too yeah yeah yeah i think it's yeah that's a very that's a very niche technicality it might not be within the boundaries of the town of akumba but like people are still being corralled in the desert with no services and that that's what we should care about not not which district they're in or what have you so i think people have probably heard by now that things are bad and we don't know how bad they will be and then maybe they'll get worse maybe they'll get better and hopefully they'll want to support so how can people do that like what what resource like what i guess like concrete actions can they take where can they give you

money how can they send you supplies if they want to volunteer and they're in the county how can they do that and what kind of volunteers are most needed? Yeah. For border kindness, monetary donations are the biggest help that allows us to meet current needs, daily needs. We're on Venmo at border dash kindness,

cash app at border kindness, cash, they'll info at border kindness.org um with respect to volunteering um volunteering is pretty sensitive um we're not we understand that our team is already incredibly taxed so we do need support in terms of like food preparation and getting supplies out there, transporting supplies, but it is a very sensitive situation. So we do want to, I don't know if that,

or we want to be able to talk to the people that want to volunteer. So certain expectations that they may have or certain needs that we may have are all communicated really clearly. So the organization Al Otro Lado very amazingly agreed to help us with that task of screening volunteers. So people, if they are wanting to do so and come out to

hakumba to email volunteer at alotrolado.org perfect yeah that's really good because i'll send you that info and they can just say like what are they interested in doing where are they located and that sort of thing and then we'll be in touch primarily i mean more than anything like twenty dollars is a tarp to cover a family and keep somebody shielded from the wind yeah um we can feed a lot of people with a hundred dollars so financial support is the most direct way even though it's not necessarily always feasible for people um it is the most um efficient way for us to be able to buy items in bulk yeah and like even five bucks right like maybe that's two people and it really makes their day to have a hot meal oh my gosh yeah anything helps so yeah people can definitely do this how about uh for american

french service committee pedro how can people donate, volunteer, help? Yeah, I mean, I would also stress what Jacqueline said in terms of vetting people and volunteers. It's not easy work, and we want to make sure that when people are volunteering that there's a certain level of emotional strength that people are able to have. It's very tough work and at the same time make sure that what we're doing does not negatively impact those that we are presuming to want to help right and so that's important i think going through those channels if Those channels, if you, you know, the folks that are leading the work at the transit centers, check in with them first.

But then there are other things that could be done. The other day, someone showed up with 20 boxes of pizza. You know, very useful, easy way to support connecting with people and finding out what the needs are. connecting with people and finding out what the needs are. That's another way. If you would rather purchase the tarps yourselves, for instance, do that. And then we can pick them up. We can find out how to meet and pick up those items.

If you want to donate, there are multiple organizations doing this work. I believe someone was working on a list to produce. organizations doing this work. I believe someone was working on a list to produce. For us, going on the website, afse.org, and being sure that you find our location, San Diego, so that our program then receives that donation directly. If the program goes to the overall AFSC, we won't see it. So just be very mindful of when you're donating to afse.org, very mindful of when you're donating to afsc.org first locate the san diego program office and then find the donate page on there so that we can be assured that you are sending it to our program or you can definitely contact me and i could also assist you with that yeah i think it's great i think it's important that both of you sort of um centered with regard to volunteering that like there are organizations that exist to serve volunteers through facilitating

like a service experience to them and that that's not what is happening here like this is about serving people who are very vulnerable so like there has to be some kind of vetting process and and uh people have to understand that like that's part of keeping those people safe and uh that that's why that's happening so yeah thank thank you very much for this we'll keep covering it obviously um and i i really hope people can find uh some some resources to donate because it's been very taxing uh financially and all these groups and and in our community generally is there anything else you guys would like to share before we finish up um the only thing i would add is that um you know pressing the authorities that's the other way if you are able to connect with uh the county or your county

supervisor in san diego press on them that they have a responsibility and an obligation to respond to this in a way that supports people who need the support and that's where i would i would push towards yeah i'll add to that that having spoken to people in the county and in state office like if you call that makes more difference than if you email so if you have the time to make a phone call that could help a lot anything else from you james and jacqueline that's what i can think of i mean everything changes daily so if we were to record an episode every single day i'm sure i could come with something new yeah yeah for people to to stay

clued in with channels of communication such as this podcast that are actually with people on the ground um and share that with their community is really important. Like we're already getting like some social media kind of comments. I mean, it happens every time about how we're aiding and abetting people breaking the law, but it's the government breaking the law. They're breaking international asylum law. And it's really important for people who aren't as versed in all of this to, to aware of that that everybody who is presenting for asylum has a legal right to do so not that it matters i mean they have like it's a humanitarian right but for people who are very concerned with legality or at least they um lean heavily on legality um presenting for asylum is a is a legally protected right and that's

something that is actually being um cut short by the government in violation of that yeah i think you're right it doesn't really matter like i really don't give a shit about like no but it come back people that really are about about it you know yeah yeah yeah it's good to it's good to remind them that they are wrong both morally and legally exactly yeah so what would your uh social medias be if people wanted to keep up to date with what's happening border kindness on instagram tends to have the most um up-to-date comment i mean shares of like what we're doing and that will, um, have updates like in our stories and our posts of how to help what's going on. How about you, Pedro?

Um, we're, we're terrible with our social media, but you can definitely find some of our work there. AFC, uh, San Diego, um, just look for AFC San Diego mine is Pedro Conzafos Pedro Conzafos mostly on Twitter some IG and I'll be updating some items later today

One more question because people contacted me in May to ask if they could donate air miles to facilitate travel for folks after they've been paroled into the US is that something that AFSC can do? me in May to ask if they could donate air miles to facilitate travel for folks after they've been paroled into the U.S. Is that something that AFSC can do? There is another organization, I'm not sure that's what you just mentioned, Miles for Migrants. Yeah, Miles for Migrants. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Wonderful organization that we've used through some of our

other sister organizations and getting people to their final destinations i would say that might be the best way right now okay yeah so that's the thing people can do if they happen to have a surplus of those and great thank you so much for your time i know you're all extremely busy i appreciate it and and yeah hopefully people listening will find a way to support if they can. Thanks, guys. Great. Thank you. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of an anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturno on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search,

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