It Could Happen Here - Common Humanity Collective and the Politics of Mutual Aid, Part 2

Episode Date: November 3, 2021

In part 2 of our interview with Genean and Abrar from Common Humanity Collective we discuss building deep rooted and resilient organizations and how mutual aid transforms the people and communities involved in ways more powerful than electoral organizing. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadowbride. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about things falling apart and about how we can put them back together in a way better than they originally were. And today we're going to continue our interview with Janina Naprar from

the Common Humanity Collective. We've been talking about their work. We've been talking about the origin of the mutual aid projects. We've been talking specifically about the political aspect of their work and how their reading of the history of anarchist struggle in Spain, and particularly mutual aid during the Spanish Civil War, helped impact and shape the politics and work that they've been doing. One thing I wanted to sort of circle back all the way to you from the beginning was the stuff you were doing at the very beginning of the pandemic, because I think this is, I've talked about this before on here, but, you know, the difference between a country like the US where 700, 750,000 people are dead and places where that didn't happen was the degree of community mobilization.

I talked about this with the Chinese example. Is that like, yeah, I mean, like the reason that China, the pandemic sort of got contained there, it wasn't because the state stepped in and was like, we're going to do this. It was because hundreds of thousands of ordinary people just took to the streets and were like, okay, we're doing a lockdown now. And, you know, it takes a different form in China because, you know, there's a lot of different sort of things going on there. But that kind of mass community mobilization in the beginning of it, just like it didn't happen that much in the U.S. And I think, you know, the world where we don't all die in the pandemic, right, is the one where the things that you all were doing happen. I mean, one of the other things I remember, my sister is a bio grad student. And she was telling me about how, you know, so the, you know, one of the bottlenecks beginning the pandemic, and it's still kind of a bottleneck, was about being able to do COVID tests.

And, you know, bio grad students can do PCR tests. Like it's easy. This is, you know, this is one of the first things they teach you. And that capacity just was never used. It just, it was just sort of left and like sat there and rotted and it sat there and rotted because, you know, the, the actual pandemic response was run by a state that just didn't care. And a bureaucracy that even when it did care was sort of, you know, didn't have this capacity to mobilize, you know, its entire existence is about making sure that sort of the capacity for autonomous mobilization never happens. And I think that that was one of the most interesting and powerful parts of what y'all were doing was that you just did it. And it just, it kept spreading. Yeah, no, I think that's a really good and important point you're bringing up.

And I should mention that before we started doing any of this stuff with PPE, I was actually, you know, as word, as the fear of the pandemic started spreading and we finally had a picture of what the U.S. would soon look like. I remember going to a union meeting among my fellow grad student workers and talking to some people afterwards and saying like, hey, I don't think that we have anywhere near the kind of testing infrastructure that we're going to need to prevent the spread of this stuff. Like, why don't we just, is there any way that we can just take PCR machines and set up these little gorilla operators and start testing people for free? And unfortunately, one of the things I noticed was that people, you know, were just like very confused by this idea, or they had much more faith in the state's ability to assemble these infrastructures. And I just realized that was not the way in which I was going to be able to help out. And so it's unfortunate, but a lot of people have, even though they have these instincts for sort of mutual aid and for this kind of autonomous

organizing, this stuff lies just below the surface. Often they don't feel actually capable of it. And I think more than anything, what we've done with this project is we've created a context, an atmosphere in which things which people typically feel like they cannot do, they suddenly realize they can do. Again, it's just to come back to that idea that most of us, you know, we live our lives, we sell our labor for wages, a few people who own the means of production, you know, accumulate profits and use them to manipulate the state for their own purposes. And this has an effect on us. I mean, this has an effect on dulling our consciousness. And it's an extraordinary transformation in our social relations and our sense of our own individuality when we do realize in these moments

that we can be subjects. And so unfortunately, my initial attempt to try to stimulate some of this activity around testing didn't work out. But yeah, it just presents this recurring problem, which is that people are not used to doing this kind of work. And Janine and I have found many, many times that, you know, people are willing to come and use their hands and build something for a few hours. But then what we try to do is get them involved. We say, come to the meetings. You have decision making power. You can determine the trajectory of this work.

determine the trajectory of this work. And that's always a very, very difficult thing to be doing now, given the way that sort of people have been conditioned right now. And I think that's something which is concerning, because these traits of subservience and sort of submission, I think, are incompatible. If there were a moment of revolutionary rupture. I'm not sure that that would necessarily lead to any better sort of society. So I think this stuff is deeply, deeply important to get people involved in this kind of work. I just want to go back to one of the things you said, like you mentioned the community aspect and like those relationships. And I think that I know I've said this so many times, both in like my organizing space and even on this podcast today, but I truly have felt like building community is one of the most powerful ways to organize. And I think so many people in leftist spaces right now see organizing

as like a place where you just do work. And I actually think that that's a really terrible way to organize. I don't think that you're going to have people come back, right? Like, I don't think that anyone is going to feel empowered. And, you know, kind of through talking to a bra, I've started reading this book on the free women of Spain, and like, thinking more about this also, right? And thinking about how they're talking about community building and how they're talking about, like, community as believing in each other and like, helping each other realize their full potential. And as a way to actually find equity and equality through like horizontalist structures through allowing people to reach their full potential um and i think you know these are some of the politics that have informed what we're doing that have informed how we're trying to

allow people to grow and so many people have come to us and said, you know, these mass builds or these air purifier builds are like the highlight of my week or the highlight of my month. Or I'm thinking about the way that you're structuring your distributions and thinking about how I can implement that into the work that we're doing. And I think that those things are so powerful when you're able to create these spaces, again, where people care for each other. And like you're saying, that goes a long way towards being able to mobilize when there are disasters, to being able to mobilize around protests, to being able to mobilize around these ruptures, because you have solidarity that's built through relationships and that is allowing you to build power.

Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you.

Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America. supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One of the things that YouTube was sort of

getting at is that, you know, it's hard in a lot of ways because, yeah, I mean, the U.S. has baked into just to every single part of your life is there's going to be someone who is above you who can order you and tell you what to do and that's you know that that's that that's the defining characteristic of life in the united states and the second defining characteristic is if you don't do what they tell you a person

with a gun shows up and either just beats you or hauls you away and enslaves you. And, you know, that, that, that has these enormous sort of psychological consequences that, you know, create, creates this culture where people, you know,

I mean, and this goes along with this, there's this whole de-skilling process that's, that's been a sort of part of the broad arc of capitalism that you all are trying to reverse. But even, even, yeah,

you know, he was talking about even the people who have the skills just don't sort of, they don't believe in their own autonomy in a way. And that, and that, that becomes this incredibly powerful, you know, tool of, of keeping people in line. But when that breaks and when, when people start to see it, it can take time, but yeah, you know, the, the, the kinds of power and the depth of the sort of organization that you build from that is incredible. And I think this is one of the other things about the Spanish example that people tend to forget, which is that – okay, so the CNT, which is the sort of giant – CNT-FAI is the giant sort of anarchist union that's running a lot of this stuff. They're almost completely destroyed over the course of the Spanish Civil War, and they're, you know, they're destroyed by the Stalinists, they're destroyed by the fascists, and by the end of the war, you know, the fascists

control Spain for about 40 years. But, even that, you know, they kill hundreds of thousands of people, they, like, there's massacres, you know, it turns into literally a fascist police state. But, the moment that, the moment the fascist dictatorship collapses, the CNT reappears.

And they – even in 70s Spain, in a place that is in a lot of ways deindustrialized, they still almost overthrow the government one more time. And, you know, I mean, they're still around. They're sort of in much reduced form to this day. But I mean, once, once, once you build that kind of power, right, even, you know, even 40 years of fascist dictatorship wasn't enough to completely destroy it.

It was, you know, it was, it was still there sort of waiting underground. And then the moment there was a rupture reappears. This is a really important thing that you're bringing up, Chris, because I think it has a lot to do with how we just measure and talk about success on the left.

Yeah. What you're describing, which, you know, Spain is typically by many people on the left described as kind of a failed experiment. Oh, it was nice, but it ultimately failed. So let's look at Russia, you know. But some people have argued, and I think very correctly, that you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once something like this happens, it's there. Those energies are there. They are not forgotten.

They are not lost. And there's a very vigorous sort of left-wing radical anarchist movement that's resonant and very sort of consistent with the earlier movement during the 30s. And I think that's an extraordinarily important thing to think about. We tend to measure these projects in these very sort of linear sort of status terms. And we discovered, especially when we were doing work in DSA, that a lot of people were trying to frame our own project in that way. What are the demands that you're making what are the what pressure are you exerting on the state and so there's these criteria that people use to evaluate kind of the efficacy or the success of projects like these and the Spanish example tells you that the way

that these things work is in fact much more complicated and much more interesting. And that by assembling these structures, these organizations, even if at some time or another, they don't necessarily exist anymore, all of those people who participated in them are transformed. And the people that they interact with might then also be transformed. And so something like the CNT, which is, you know, an extraordinary organization, the FAI is what, you know, really gave it the kind of anarcho-syndicalist content that defined the quality of that revolution. That never got lost. That never went away, even when it seems to have disappeared. And so I think we have to learn to think about success and failure, you know, as we very simplistically

use these terms very, very differently. And this is something which informs our own work when we're asking, was this successful? Was this not successful? I think that's a much more difficult and complicated question than we often make it out to be. Yeah. And I think there's something very specific about, you know, we can go into sort of DSA factional politics for a little bit. But like, I think like in some ways you see the shallowness of a lot of the approaches that was happening in the DSA where, you know, like if you look at a lot of how the sort of Medicare for all stuff went or a lot of how the sort of Bernie campaigning stuff went, right? It was, okay, you know, you have these organizations that are like a mile wide an inch deep and it's like okay they're capable of mobilizing people to vote one time but you know then they lose the election and then what right so they don't they don't they don't

have you know there's there's supposed to be this whole thing of like bernie being organizer in chief and this whole sort of plan to use the sort of lists he developed as an organization organizing thing it just never happened and you know it didn't happen in a lot of ways because it was just sort of they they they treated the whole process of building power as essentially a bureaucratic exercise right it's how many people are on this list how many people are showing up to the state like you know and like how many how many doors have we knocked on and no relationships yeah yeah yeah it's just it you know and that's the that's the other thing you're talking about with the fact that organizing spaces have to be more than just another place you go to work, right? If all you're doing is just replicating these sort of bureaucratic things, you're going to watch them fail exactly the same way the bureaucracies do, except, you know, you're not the American state, you're not the Democratic Party, you don't have an infinite amount of money or the ability to sort of, you know, you don't have the ability to call an RB to enforce what you need to do, right? You don't have the fallback of bad methods of organizing, which is violence. And when that happens, you know, and suddenly,

and you can't confront your own failures because you're stuck in this, things just start to sort of implode and you start to lose people and you start to sort of you know you see this sort of stagnation and decline that i think you know talking about yeah without getting exactly too much into what's going on in east bay like that's that's that's been everything i've seen out of it yeah and i think to go kind of off of what a bra was talking about to kind of put this into terms of the work that we've been doing right you know through the mask builds, as they were winding down, we weren't quite sure what our next project was. And, you know, we talked a lot about like, how do we keep this energy going? Like, we don't want to just lose this. And I also felt, you know, a certain

amount of social obligation to, you know, keep this community together that had formed during the pandemic. And so we started a book group kind of in the interim, reading How Europe Underdeveloped Africa by Walter Rodney, and, you know, had around 30 people show up to that. And I think, as you know, you're talking about the importance of once, you know, these relationships are formed, once these ideologies start to percolate, that they don't just go away, right? These people that we, you know, brought into DSA, and a lot of ways, East Bay DSA came to join this book group, and later came to join the air purifier project, despite the fact that it was more outside of DSA, a lot of these people, because of, you know, what we had

built and what we had created, continued to be such a huge part and take on incredible leadership roles and, you know, facilitate this project in a way that it would not at all look like what it does without, you know, these people dedicating so much of their time and energy to this project kind of throughout the process. Yeah, and Chris, going back to what you were saying earlier, I think I've seen a very interesting kind of reflection come out of some of these organizations and you see these different splits and sort of wings developing. But yeah, I mean, I, Janine is a very sort of organic, radical and revolutionary who I've learned an enormous amount from. But I think my own trajectory was much more characteristic of what you described earlier, which is that, you know, I put all my eggs in this basket, I thought, okay, Bernie Sanders, like that's, that is, that is the, that is the

beginning of how we undergo a sort of democratic socialist transformation. And then, you know, in a few snaps of the finger, even though I'd spent just like hundreds of hours, just knocking doors and promising all these things to people who might, you know, vote for him at their door and all this stuff that and just sort of regurgitating all these slogans and talking, you know, rapturously about these welfare programs. I saw all of that dissolve in a moment. And I realized that I didn't leave anything behind. And there was, you know, in DSA and our chapter, you saw that there was a large group of people who just wanted to keep that flame burning and just say, we'll do better next time. You know, we'll do more work at the local level to elect representatives. But then

there was another group of people who was much more disillusioned and really started wondering, is this what we should be doing? Or at least, is this all that we should be doing? And you see the same thing coming out of a group like Sunrise, whose primary sort of mandate is to just put pressure onto Congress to urge the necessity of a Green New Deal or whatever. And nevertheless, out of Sunrise, we've met people who, after the George Floyd protests, after the dissolution of the Bernie campaign, have been led down the same radical path as some of us found ourselves traveling in East Bay DSA. come to help our project and using whatever autonomy they have at the sort of hub level in Sunrise. Because even though it's an organization with sort of paid staff and something of this

bureaucracy, right now in this moment, the individual little local hubs actually have a surprising amount of autonomy. I really hope they're going to fight for and protect that autonomy. So they've been able to use that autonomy to actually put a lot of effort toward raise money, thousands of dollars for our work at CHC and come to our organizer meetings, become a part of the effort and urge upon their own friends and co-organizers

and people they know in Sunrise to shift the direction of their work, of their branches towards doing more work like this. So there are these kind of interesting different splinterings that you see happening, which give me some hope that we're not just going to keep running the same tape over and over again. So one of the other interviews we did on this show was with a bunch of people who were working with the basically this giant effort in atlanta to stop this like just atrocious sort of destruction of a bunch of forests to create this like weird teaching cops how to do counter terrorism enormous academy thing that's being funded by a bunch of the little corporations

in atlanta and they were describing you know they they didn't talk about sort of the exact same process of solution but you know you saw they were like you know one of the people with their hair was from sunrise and they were also talking about how they they'd pulled together this just like enormous coalition of a bunch of community groups that was you know and like their their initial goal was to start they're trying to pressure the city council into stopping the, into, you know, to not approving it. And that doesn't work, but you know, it, you know, some, some of the other groups that were, that were involved in this are talking about like, okay, well, you know, they're, they're planning is like, if this fails, we're going to go stop it ourselves. And, and I think that pivot, right. Is, is one of the most crucial

things that is happening right now, because, you know, okay. If you, if you, you know, if you,

if you, you, you, you pull out your like Paul, your policy, like policy space diagrams, right? Like it's,

it's the United States. The, the, the policy that's enacted is the one that is, is the policy decided by the 60th Senator. And it's like, okay. So,

you know, even, even, even, even, even if we're going to try to do an electoral thing, right. You need sick, you need 60 votes in the senate there is one arguably socialist senator and we've never elected another one so you know and you start looking at this right it's like okay

like you know we elect like two maybe three socialists in in the house every year and if you know if you continue at the same rate it'll be like what like like 200 years before you have a majority there and it's like yeah you know at a certain point it's like yeah i mean we're like we're not gonna be around because we'll be dead but like most of most most of the stuff on earth will also not be around because it will have been a blitter like climate change there and you know and at some point you have to get to we're gonna have to do it ourselves because no one no one else is going to do it for us and i think the work you two have been doing is just incredible it's just an incredible example of how that can actually happen and what what that looks like thank you yeah i think that it is so important and i think that that's one of the

reasons that to me it was also so important to get all of these groups at these air purifier builds, because I think oftentimes, organizing is so siloed. Yeah. And it really frustrates me. And people seem very, like, loyal, at least I found this in East Bay DSA to like their particular organization, any other organization, they don't even really want to talk about, or they don't even know still exist. And to me, like, if we can give people the tools to organize, I don't care who they're organizing. But if we can also, like, have these groups communicate with each other, right? Like, different groups are doing exactly the same thing, right? We have the eco socialist group in DSA, right? You have Sunrise, you have the IWW, and then you have the labor committee of DSA. And it's like, sometimes there is cross-communication,

right? But to me, it never feels like it's quite enough. It never feels like we're really all working on this or we're really all in it together. And I think we really should be, because like you're saying, there's kind of a ticking clock. We only have a certain amount of time to actually make the changes that we want to see. And when we're not willing to actually work with each other and communicate with each other, things are not going to happen as quickly. Yeah. And so being able to have like, you know, a table of people assembling purifiers from DSA sunrise tank. Right.

sunrise tank, right? And they're all talking about the organizing work that they're doing and sharing stories and strategies so that we're not all constantly reinventing the wheel that actually working together on this, I think is so, so valuable. And this is something that we've seen, you know, one of our friends who's helping lead one of the tank locals has come to a number of our events and was telling us how he's actually tried to bring things that he's seen that we're doing into his own local. And we've heard this in other contexts as well. So things spread. And that's, I think, a really important thing that, you know, especially because of Janine's, you know, just attempts to try to get all these groups together into one place to communicate, to build relationships. We're now seeing what we've built sort of emanating elsewhere. And we're also learning a lot from all these different people and groups who come to our builds and then become

organizers in the effort. And, you know, to mention someone like, you know, Gerald Janine referred to earlier, who is this wonderful cantankerous ex-Black Panther, you know, who has been an enormous boost of confidence. And it's allowed us to focus. And, you know, just to reiterate what she said earlier, we were really depressed when we went out and we were talking to people in West Oakland and East Oakland, and everyone was telling us, we're going to come. Yeah, we'll show up. We'll be there. And then, you know, while many other people showed up from Sunrise, DSA, CHC, elsewhere, none of those people showed up. And we said, Gerald, they're not coming. What's going on? And he said, keep going. Keep trying. Keep doing it. Do not give up. Do not judge from that one experience. This is really hard work. And these people have had the door shut on them over and over and over again. And they're tired and it's

the weekend, but you keep doing it and they're tired and it's the weekend, but you keep doing it and they will come. And then the next time they came, we may not have gone there again, had it not been for Gerald bringing in this enormous breath of experience to share with us, you know, at the end of our previous build. a spill. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora, an anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters

to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. you know i'm gonna be doing this for decades right and she's like yeah okay so you have a protest and if if a hundred if if 800 people show up you're happy and if 100 people show up you're depressed and then one day 800 000 people show up and you kind of just forgot that could happen and yeah i mean that that is something that you know yeah you're like organizing is not easy you're gonna spend a lot of time like not winning you're gonna spend a lot of time feeling like

you're barely treading water there's gonna be a lot of time where you know nothing works and everything seems to be falling apart but you know if you keep pushing 800 000 people show up and you know and suddenly the regime is like taking air is like you know trying to catch planes out of the country and yeah and you know and you get to that CLR James line about how the ruling class is not defeated until it's running for its lives. But, you know, they do run for their lives. This is a thing that happens.

Yeah, and you know, if we do this together, we can get there. Totally. And I think, you know, what Abrar is saying is so true. And we also, you know, in doing these distributions, talk to people, and I literally would say, like, what will get people to show up, right? There's

a certain amount of like, honesty in these conversations of like, you know, this is what we're trying to do. Like, there's a reciprocal relationship here, again, like help us understand also, like what we need to do in order to make sure that the reciprocal relationship is actually realized and actually happening. And I think that that was kind of an exciting moment of like having people have some autonomy and like say and like, you know, they know this community better than we do. Right. They know like how people are going to show up and how maybe they won't. and how maybe they won't. But Chris, just to bring it back to what you were saying, I think describing the kind of nonlinear trajectory of popular movements in history is something that we try to keep always in our minds. Things may begin small, things may seem small, even when you study the examples in Spain of sort of the groups of people who formed sort of the early

FAI, who were just sort of discussing these ideas around the fire before they tried to sort of infiltrate the CNT. And then this became the sort of predominant mood and sort of ideology that characterized the CNT, which then, you know, spread out and sort of characterized the Spanish Revolution at large in massive numbers, millions of people, you know. spread out and sort of characterize the Spanish Revolution at large and massive numbers, millions of people, you know, and just seeing what happened with the George Floyd protests and studying the examples of, you know, Paris in 1968, where it at first just seems like small groups of students. And then, you know, just a few days and weeks later, you know, there's thousands and thousands

and thousands and thousands of workers, you know, there's thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of workers, you know, who are out, literally just pulling out cobblestones from the street, you know, up against the police. And, and the way that these things happen is very unpredictable. And I think that's also a very important thing to keep in mind as we're trying to evaluate, you know, what we're doing in a given moment. Yeah, I think I think I think that's, that's, that's a very good note to end on. It's, you know, every the struggle we have embarked in is an incredibly difficult one. And we're not going to know how it ends for a long, long time. But that doesn't Yeah, you know, that doesn't

necessarily means it ends badly, and the kind of resiliency we can build is incredibly deep and incredibly powerful. Okay, plugs time. Where do you want people to go? What do you want people to know? And yeah, we can link stuff if you want to send it to us in the

chat. We can link stuff in the description of this can we can we can link stuff we can we can we can link stuff in the description of this episode this is why we have editors thank you daniel yeah um i think definitely like our social media um so twitter and instagram is c humanity c um for folks to be able to donate um to visit our website, to be able to plug in if they are in the Bay Area and want to get involved. They can find ways to do that through those social media channels. You know, they can message us. And then our fundraiser, I don't know if we should

just send the link or what the best way to do that is. If you go to commonhumanitycollective.org, there's a donate button which leads to the fundraiser so you can find it there. Also if you go there you can see instructions on how to make the fans and they are so cool. Like they're awesome. It's sweet. So go do that too because it's sick and there's also instructions for

how you can make them as well. And we hope people do this elsewhere. Please reach out to us. We want to not be the only ones doing this. And so this is why we've tried to just put everything on lines that others can replicate this model. And this is why we're coming on a show like this and going into so much detail into our history, just that, you know,

we don't have to keep reinventing the wheel. I think, you know, a bar and I have learned so much from this project and a lot of it really did feel like reinventing the wheel. I think, you know, Abrar and I have learned so much from this project. And a lot of it really did feel like reinventing the wheel, which is unfortunate because I know that, you know, mutual aid has been done elsewhere, but with the organizers that we were talking to, a lot of the things that we were doing,

we were having to kind of start from scratch. And at least my goal is like, we're both very accessible people. Like if there are questions, you know, to be able to reach out so that we can, you know, explain our experience to other folks and talk through, you know, our relationship with Sunrise started because they heard about the mutual aid work that we were doing. And they said, we want to do that also. And we're like, great. And, you know, Abrar, our co-organizer, Joe and I, and this woman from Sunrise met in a park and ate dinner and just talked about mutual aid and hell yeah

you know the pitfalls that had happened and what went well and how we could do it in the future and then like this beautiful collaboration began like a bra was talking about so um i think you know we're we're really happy to talk about where things have gone awry and what we've learned from this project and thankfully at this point too like what successes we've had. Yeah. So yeah, go, go everyone, go, go, go, go find them, go out into your communities, go do this themselves. And yeah, go, go, go get us another Spanish revolution. We need another one. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you to you so much for joining us. I so agree, Chris. This has been such a huge pleasure for me talking to you we've been covered by a lot of places but never quite like just thank you so much for doing this

yeah such an honor to be here and so much fun to talk with you both thank you so much for having us yeah so this has been it could happen here pod you can find us at happen here pod on twitter and instagram and at coolzone for just the rest of the stuff that we do. All right.

Bye, everyone. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcastjo, and step into the flames of riot. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America.

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