It Could Happen Here - CZM Book Club: "John Simnel's First Goshawk" by Tegan Moore

Episode Date: August 11, 2024

Margaret reads you a story about a boy who could have been king but instead talks to birds.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:00:36 Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T. Connecting changes everything. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take phone calls from anonymous strangers as a fake gecko therapist
Starting point is 00:01:31 and try to learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. Check it out for yourself by searching for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Cool Zone Media Book Club, Book Club, Book Club, Book Club. Hello, and welcome to Cool Zone Media Book Club. I'm your host or reader or the person who's talking to you right now. My name is Margaret Kiljoy, and this is the only book club where you don't have to do the reading because I do it for
Starting point is 00:02:11 you. Sure, you might say to yourself, there's a lot of podcasts where people read fiction. How is that different? And the difference is that this is called a book club. So, it's a book club. It's also a podcast. It's weird how things can be more than one thing at the same time. This week, I've got a short and, I think, a story you all will quite enjoy. I guess I'm always reading you short stories. But this is on the shorter side of short stories. It's a story called John Simnel's First Goshawk. It's written
Starting point is 00:02:47 by an author named Tegan Moore. It first was published in 2020 by the literary fantasy journal Beneath Ceaseless Skies. And if you're thinking to yourself, John Simnel, I know all about John Simnel, then you are thinking differently than I was when I read the story. Because even though I read history books for a living, I don't know everything about English history because I spent a lot of my life being like, well, I don't like them. And that's the wrong medieval. Because I obviously am obsessed with medieval shit, but not specifically an expert in English history, even though I run a history podcast and have covered a ton of English things
Starting point is 00:03:30 on the show. There's just a lot of it, okay? There's a lot of ye olde sword times in Englandy. And so I did a bunch of research about John Simnel, and I'm going to tell you about it. But first, I'm going to tell you about the author. I'm going to tell you about Tegan Moore. Tegan is an aspirational farmer living on 20 muddy acres about an hour outside of Seattle, Washington. She's been published in magazines including Asimov Science Fiction, Tor.com, Clark's World, and others. She is a dog agility instructor, can't not look at crustaceans, and has a biologically improbable entirely separate second stomach for containing dumplings. Deegan's great. You should read more of her stories. So the story is called John Simnel's First Goshawk. And the first time I read
Starting point is 00:04:18 it, I was like, yep, that's a name, and then didn't think about whether or not it had any historical significance. And then after I picked it for this show, I was like, I should really Google this. So I did. And I think that the story is enriched by just the slightest bit of background. Last week on Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff, which if you're listening to this It Could Happen Here feed, you should really check out the Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff feed, which is where my history podcast is. Last week, I talked about Joan of Arc and the hundred years war between France and England. And in that story, Henry VI is sort of the main antagonist, even though he's a little kid. Henry VI didn't manage
Starting point is 00:05:01 to rule France in the end because a lady with a sword turned the tide of a hundred year war and slowly the French drove him out, putting a different asshole named Charles VII on the French throne because you really can't win when you have a king. But back in England, Henry VI kept ruling and then a ton of fuckery happened. And this is all like the 1400s time or so. And the important thing is at the end of all this fuckery happened and this is all like 1400s time or so and the important thing is at the end of all this fuckery a guy named henry the seventh came into power but the fuckery continued during this fuckery just the academic word for complicated shit that i don't really feel like is worth explaining or understanding. That's what fuckery means in this context. Amidst this fuckery, a common-born boy named John Simnell
Starting point is 00:05:52 was groomed to become a pretender to the throne. Basically, he looked like he could be related to this one royal who was locked up in the Tower of England, Tower of London, whatever, the prison for rich people. And so some people who didn't want the current king set up this common-born kid, John, to be the fake rightful heir of the throne when John was 10 years old. And so he became the figurehead of a failed rebellion called the Yorkist rebellion. He was crowned in Dublin as Edward VI. The reason he was crowned in Dublin, the Irish supported the Yorkist rebellion
Starting point is 00:06:31 because the Yorkist faction mostly just left Ireland alone. That was their plan for Ireland, was like, I don't know. I guess we could call ourselves in charge, but just not actually do anything. And the Irish people were like, yeah, yeah that sounds good we'd rather you left us the fuck alone a lot of that throughout history wanting england to leave you alone anyway being a pretender to the throne didn't go well for our young john but since he was all of 10 years old, he was spared. He wasn't executed when the whole rebellion collapsed. And he was put to work in the king's court. First, he was like the roast spit turner, you know, when they like kill a boar and then they have to like turn it on a spit. That was his job, which is a step down from king. although morally it's probably a step up.
Starting point is 00:07:26 In the end, he ended up a falconer. That's your history lesson. Now here's the story. John Simnel's First Goshawk by Tegan Moore. In the light of a single candle, the goshawk and I regard each other. Sleep presses against our eyes, but we are both obstinate. The hawk has run out of foul names to spit at me. He does not blink, so I try not to blink. The sallow light is golden in his livid golden eye. One of us will break, and the other triumph. Though in the muffled dark of my room, I wonder if I might instead go mad. Or perhaps you're mad already, the goshawk suggests. This is how you break a hawk.
Starting point is 00:08:11 Wait him out. It's simple, but not easy. Eventually he must sleep. If the falconer is alert to see the moment his hawk concedes, slips away to sleep despite his fear, then the bird begins to be his. It is a game of minds, not of dexterity, but strength. If the falconer sleeps, he simply begins the excruciating wait again the next day. If the hawk sleeps, however, then the bird has lost forever.
Starting point is 00:08:50 forever. And this is how you break a boy. Tell him he is king. Simple, but not easy. You must watch him hawk-like to see how he slips beneath your lies. You must seem to believe it enough that the boy believes too. You must crown him and put him at the front of an army. If you fail, there is always another handsome hazel-eyed boy somewhere in the world. Anyone might do. If the boy believes that he is king, though, and this is true whatever circumstances befall him, however low he is brought, he can never completely unbelieve.
Starting point is 00:09:22 I have toiled a lifetime at the hard labors of the lowborn, so much longer than the time I spent as claimant to the throne of England, designated by God in legitimate secession to take the crown back from Henry Tudor. For only one short year was I misled, one year which I, a small and frightened boy, spent under the spell of my own belief. One year in a lifetime of years. Yet which of these returns to me, again and again?
Starting point is 00:09:52 I hold my hawks to the right. The glove must be made to fit. Most of the king's falconers hawk to their left. I prefer the right. My forearm there is hardened, scarred from years at the turnspit, and smelted tough. It is an animal job, like an ass at a mill. I have heard that in some great Flemish houses they turn the spit with dogs. I imagine the work is worse for a dog, with the riches of slow-baked meat forever just beyond reach. Worse if they've once tasted it, and know they'll now have none.
Starting point is 00:10:28 The sky lightens, slow and patient as it bleeds into my room. The paling dawn swims flecks of silver in my tired vision. The goshawk and I have watched each other all the night. He looks to me, and his head tilts, taking my measure. He turns away. He's found me lacking. Snub me, I say. I don't care. You weren't the first. His breast feathers puff in offense. Few other falconers speak to their hawks. Certainly none have heard the hawk speak in response. Or perhaps they are wiser than I and simply pretend they cannot hear.
Starting point is 00:11:07 Much like you could pretend not to hear the ads that are now interrupting your story. But I want to say that this episode was brought to you by Peasant Rebellions, exerting the power of the working class over the rich since before anyone bothered writing history down in books. You too can revolt against the modern day monarchs. All you need is a pitchfork, a torch, a hundred friends, and more interest in doing right than living to be old. Peasant revolts. They're fun. Until you google what drawn and quartered is. And then they're no longer fun. Peasant revolts. And whatever these other ads are. and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories,
Starting point is 00:12:13 their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires.
Starting point is 00:12:59 From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though.
Starting point is 00:13:23 I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better.
Starting point is 00:13:39 Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel.
Starting point is 00:14:01 I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez.
Starting point is 00:14:11 At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story,
Starting point is 00:14:41 as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. The shaping of a free mind into a tamed one is a fascinatingly predictable process. You begin by stripping away. Good comes only from the master's hand. They receive nothing if it is not from you. Dress your beast so finely that it is impractically, conspicuously plumed,
Starting point is 00:15:20 in clothing unfit for an innkeeper's boy. If at home it eats pottage and barley bread, then feed it roast mallard and stewed fruits from your own rich table. Give promises like tidbits, dreams like sugared almonds. Next, you must test the quality of what you've captured. Is the beast suited? Hold it up to a trusted few for evaluation.
Starting point is 00:15:45 Once fattened and finely dressed, if it is of any caliber, it will pass well enough. Then you hone it. Feed it by hand, gentle it, teach it good French and a little Latin. Show it courtly manners and how to believe it deserves more than it has. Once the beast is trained, examine its skills at work. Make the trials easy so that failure is not catastrophe.
Starting point is 00:16:12 Sit it beside you at dinner and bid it speak. The dinners will grow grander, the guests wealthier, its performances more complex. It should be dutiful, but not slavish. Proud, as befits the highborn, but also demonstrating biddability and tact. Only after much practice are the long training creences shed, your creation unhooded and loosed upon the greater stage. Even then, it will always wear thongs at its wrists. If escaped, or even freed, is something tamed and trained in this way ever
Starting point is 00:16:46 its own sovereign? The master makes his mark not only on the body but the mind. He is always there, silently governing, even if his touch is unseen. On the third day, the goshawk closes his eyes on his perch. I let him sleep until supper, too aching with exhaustion and relief to sleep myself. Then I wake him to celebrate by carrying him out to the sunny grass beyond the mews. I bring him a haunch of rabbit. He examines the meat with one eye and turns his head away. You'll have to trust me eventually, I say. Oh, I, says the goshawk, voice rough and listless, and you'll trust me too, I wager. He lifts one leg, tugging the jesses in my fist. A man's words from the mouth of a bird. I am mad with the lack of sleep. The sunlight is so warm and tender. If I close my eyes here, I may sleep standing up.
Starting point is 00:17:48 All boys think they are important. All you have to do to win one's heart is to agree. Father Simon told me I had been mislaid, a royal cuckoo in a sparrow's nest. This made my mother a whore and my father a cuckold, but I did not consider the implications of the claim beyond its first greatest consequence. The king does what he likes, after all, and who's to stop him? Who's to judge? I would do what I liked when I was king if I obeyed well enough. Simon told other people other things about where I was come from and what my name was. They were free to choose amongst their preferred truths.
Starting point is 00:18:30 I was not. When I was called Duke of York, I believed I was the Duke of York. When it became advantageous to be Earl of Warwick instead, I was Warwick, wholeheart, and spoke warmly of my uncle Edward, who had only days before been my father. In Ireland, when I was King Edward VI, I believed that best of all. I was only 10 years old. When I was captured and my false name stripped like layers of gilding, taken from me along with the fine clothing, I was taught again what to perform.
Starting point is 00:19:06 After all these rehearsals, it was hard to take a role which did not come with finery, horse to ride, the blessings of nobility. I played it, though. I put my heart behind contrition, bewilderment, innocence. It didn't matter if the role was true. I only needed to convince the court. Treasonous nobles are beheaded. For treasonous commoners, oh, the death is so much worse. Almost as bad as these ads. This podcast is brought to you by swords. Get yourself a sword.
Starting point is 00:19:42 Have you ever lacked confidence? Do you think that maybe what you really lacked was a sword? I think so. Swords. They're what you can use to cut people. you might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories,
Starting point is 00:20:21 their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app,
Starting point is 00:20:53 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex Elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming
Starting point is 00:21:28 and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough, so join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean.
Starting point is 00:22:03 He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story,
Starting point is 00:22:49 as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. The hawking master comes to try the goshawk after I have had him a month at my side. He makes his kill. He flies to fist. The master offers a silver of cold mutton in exchange for the sparrow my hawk has taken. The hawk raises his broad, barred wings in threat.
Starting point is 00:23:29 He hands the bird to me. Bloody-minded, he says. You've still work to do, Simnel. Yes, sir, I say, wrapping the jesses around my fist. If he won't man fully, there's no use keeping him. Yes, sir, I repeat, obediently. Bloody-minded, the goshawk mutters, aggrieved once the hawking master is gone. He has slept. I have slept. There is no reason I should still hear him speaking. Yet all this month, he has spoken. His words show him to be, indeed, bloody-minded. I hide my smile. I fly the goshawk alone, far from the muse.
Starting point is 00:24:09 He is a blade through the sky, an arrow when he falls into his stoop. Neither this hawk nor I were born into the service of the king. For me, that past life was squalid and ignorant. The goshawks, though, was some other beast entirely. He brings me a gory, jedi-eyed starling. Its black feathers flecked with brilliance remind me of Simon's priestly robes. I let him keep it. After my royal army's defeat at Stokefield,
Starting point is 00:24:42 I was imprisoned. Not in the tower, but some nameless dark hole where i might be ignored no not ignored there were rotten mouthed men there who paid me attention i did not like i was not a prisoner of the tower like a nobleman but in squalor with common wretches the death prescribed treasonous commoners is something small boys talk about, wide-eyed, squeezing out every drop of sweet dread, but only if they can't imagine playing any part in it. It's less pleasant to dream of it if the dream might be your life.
Starting point is 00:25:16 Henry called me to him, and like any tamed thing, I went willingly, though stupid with fear. Even walking to my doom, I felt terror and pleasure both, for I was not forgotten. Every boy likes to think they are important. The king forgave me and sent me to turn the spit. I thanked God, though it was animal work. The rest I was allowed to do on my own, though I never suppose that I'm free. The goshawk will eat from my hand. He will return to fist and he does not bait, but he will not give up his kills. Mine, he hisses at the hawking master.
Starting point is 00:25:59 Wicked man, useless man. The hawking master does not hear him. No other man seems to hear the hawk's voice, or at least none will admit to it. I have not the courage to ask. Perhaps I am mad. Perhaps the hawk is mad too. He certainly comports himself like a madman.
Starting point is 00:26:20 The hawking master offers the hawk a whole dead pigeon for a scrawny, fledgling crow. The hawk strides for the master's fingers with his wrathful golden beak. Eat that yourself, he says. This one's mine. He does not belong in the muse. His body, fierce but soft, his eyes, golden and terrible. This closed-in place offends him, offends God's hand which made him. He glares at me when I collect him the next morning and mutes in a great silver spurt of shit. Goshawks are always the most trying, the hawking master says as we undo the goshawk's jesses. I put two back to the forest before I kept one on my fist.
Starting point is 00:27:02 I will have another hawk in the springtime. I am at liberty to try again. We are all tamed by our circumstances. None of us is free. Or perhaps we are all exactly as free as we wish to be. The hawk lifts from my fist, from the glove that covers my turn-spit scars. It is a good glove, well-fit to me,
Starting point is 00:27:27 and simple. The hawk makes one turn over our heads and drifts away into the sky. I suppose he is his own goshawk now. And that's the end of the story. When I asked Tegan if there was anything important for you all to know about this story, she told me to say that she is the direct descendant of both the Goshawk and John Simnel and has shipped the two together. Well, rather history did because I don't see why Tegan would have lied to me about being a direct descendant of a pretender to the throne and a bird. I don't know. If you meet Tegan, you'd be like, yeah, that makes some sense. I like this story for a lot of reasons. I like this story because it's simple and well-told, and I like what the story talks about. And it's funny because it's like,
Starting point is 00:28:20 you know me, I like stories where the metaphor is fairly blunt. It's pretty easy to see the connections that are being drawn between a commoner who is tamed into believing that he could be king and a bird, a falcon or whatever, a goshawk. falcon or whatever a goshawk and i like it because it points out the ways in which you know they're like oh once i'm king i'll be free and then you're like well you're still just you know you still have other masters and like we basically it's like the act of being tamed is what undermines your freedom or leaves you in the situation that whatever this story does a better job of explaining it than i could explain it and you know just to i really like the lines we are all tamed by our circumstances none of us is free or perhaps we are all exactly as free as we wish to be also i think it's telling that the goshawk that wants to be free has to be bloody minded anyway peasant revolt
Starting point is 00:29:30 it always ends well that's our final sponsor shout out well I guess there's probably more ads at the end but I don't know anyone who listens to the ads at the end of podcasts I guess you do if you're like just listening to a bunch of podcasts while you're doing something else and you're like oh whatever queues up next will be good. In which case, you probably
Starting point is 00:29:46 will have the other ads. But I want to shout out that if you're listening to this on the cool people who did cool stuff feed, you should also check out it could happen here. And if you're listening to this, it could happen here feed, you should check out cool people who did cool stuff. And you should check out all the podcasts from Cool Zone Media and not any other podcasts, except I can't really say that because I have podcasts that aren't on this network, like Live Like the World is Dying, which is on a different network called, oh God, I get Cool Zone Media and Channel Zero Network mixed up in my head constantly because one of them, I'm on one network called CZM and another network called CZN. What are the odds? And none of the words are the same.
Starting point is 00:30:28 Cool Zone Media and Channel Zero Network, they're all different words, but they have similar... It's not an acronym if it doesn't make a word. Whatever the abbreviation. I should be done. I'm done. Goodbye. See you next week.
Starting point is 00:30:46 It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jacqu Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series,
Starting point is 00:31:47 Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day.
Starting point is 00:31:59 From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T. Connecting changes everything. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly.
Starting point is 00:32:24 I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take phone calls from anonymous strangers as a fake gecko therapist and try to learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. Check it out for yourself by searching for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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