It Could Happen Here - CZM Book Club: "The Sapling Cage" by Margaret Killjoy

Episode Date: September 15, 2024

Audiobook narrator Jackie Meloche reads Margaret the first chapter of her own upcomin book!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking música, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world

and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Cool Zone Media Book Club! Book Club! Book Club! Book Club! Book Club! It's the Cool Zone Media Book Club.

The only podcast where you don't have to do the reading, and usually I say because I do the reading, but this week it's going to be different. This week, instead of reading to a guest, I found a guest to read to me. I found Jackie Malosh. Hi. Hi.

So, Jackie is the narrator of my upcoming book, The Sapling Cage. You've probably heard me talking about it for the past six months at least or longer. But I thought, wouldn't it be fun to read you all a chapter of it? And then I thought, wouldn't it be even more fun if you all could listen to the person who's going to be doing the reading of it in your ears? Because Jackie's the narrator of the book. So I thought she should come on and read you all some of the book. Well, hell yeah. I'm so glad to be here. I usually do like a bio of the author, but I'm not going to do a bio of the author,

but tell us about you really quickly. Yeah. So I'm like, who am I? It's one of those things where like, as soon as anybody asks me a question, and I have all the knowledge I have just disappears. I'm a voice actor who specializes in audiobook narration. I'm based out of the Ann Arbor, Michigan area. And I also work at a library part time as well. And so it's a cool gig. This story meant a lot to me because I am trans feminine myself. My pronouns are she, they. And so a lot of what's like in the text really, really resonated with me. And so I was thrilled to be able to narrate this title. And I'm thrilled to be here to read a little piece of it for you guys today. Yeah, I had nothing to do with the decision making of narrators, but I did get to hear the like, audition piece. And I was like this is gonna work this is gonna be great thank you so the sapling cage is a book that i wrote and it is a crossover which means it's a ya book that knows it's going to be read by adults which did me a lot of good well we'll talk about the book more at the end after the reading. But instead, it's called The Sapling Cage. It comes out September 24th, 2024 in both audiobook and print book form. And you can pre-order either the print or the audio or both

if you're feeling spicy. I don't know why that's spicy, but you could do it. Why not? All right, let's hear this amazing story i've never had anyone read me one of my own things before i suppose that is an unusual sort of sensation and feeling yeah yeah especially because it's like a fantasy world full of weird names but you know sure it's gonna be great oh yeah i'm excited oh yeah yeah. All right. All right. One.

The alder tree was ancient, and its leaves and branches left sunlight dappled on the forest floor. It was also dead, and it shouldn't have been. Everywhere around us, the forest was waking from winter. Everything was bluebells and white trilliums and new buds on branches and bright green leaves. Everything was spring, except the alder. Its bark was sharp with cold, like ice or like stone. Its leaves were gray. I don't think trees are supposed to be like that, Blaine said. We'd finished our morning work on the communal fields.

Not a hundred yards away through the trees, horses ran in the pasture, excited to be outside after so many months of snow. I could smell rain in the air. It should have been a perfect day. But the alder was dead, and it shouldn't have been. Witchcraft, Lane said.

That was her explanation for everything strange. It couldn't be the witches, I said. That was my defense of everything blamed on witchcraft. She paced around the tree. It took her several paces for every lap. She was half a year younger than me. She'd just turned 16, but she was the one always trying to burn off extra energy. I peered at the frost gathered on the alder's bark.

I see another one, Lane said. She took off running further into the forest, and I caught up with her a ways away. A young pine was dead and cold, its needles gone gray. One shattered at the touch of my finger. Who else but witches, Lane asked. Trees don't turn cold. Only a witch could save it, I said. You'll be able to save it. Oh, hooray, Lane said sarcastically.

It's not that bad. I didn't make that deal. I don't think my dead mom's promise should mean anything. Lane and I started back toward the village. Witches get to wear those black skirts, though, I said. And curse people. And heal people. I'd rather be a knight.

You know I'd rather be a knight. You know I'd rather be a knight. Why are you arguing with me about this? That was a fair question. I thought it over as we walked. If I was a girl, I'd pretend to be you and go in your place. I'd always wanted to be a witch.

It's a shame you aren't a girl, Lane said. I agreed. Not just because of the witch thing. One of my earliest memories was being glad that my name, Laurel, was as common for girls as it was for boys. Five years back, my mother had given up trying to keep me out of her face powder and paint. Lane had always been game to trade clothes with me. Those were the only two people in town who I talked to about how I should have been a girl. I had enough social problems already. When I was little, maybe seven, I told my friend River to call me a girl instead of a boy, and he just punched me right then and there without

thinking about it. My mom thought my nose was broke, and a traveling witch had to set it for me. River apologized, and maybe he even meant it that he was sorry, but he'd made it seem like the whole thing was my fault, like I'd scared him or something. So, yeah, only my mom and Lane knew about the dresses and the paint. If I were a witch, though, I could turn the next person like River into a goat, or figure out things like why those trees were cold. I'll do it anyway, I said, as we walked through the fields of flax and barley.

What? I started talking faster so I wouldn't lose my nerve. I'll do it anyway, I said, as we walked through the fields of flax and barley. What? I started talking faster so I wouldn't lose my nerve. When the coven comes through to take you, I'll tell them I'm you and I'll go off and learn to be a witch. You're a boy, Lane said. Girls are allowed to be knights now. Why can't boys be witches? Besides, it's not my fault I'm a boy.

It's still true. I can pretend. Lane walked up next to me and threw her arms around my shoulders. What if you get caught? I won't get caught, he said. Strangers always think I'm a girl anyway. My mother and I ran the stables. There were more popular roads than South Ede, and there were more prosperous towns than Ledston on South Ede, but we still saw our share of wayfarers. Most were on their way to Port Sack to our east or Deadman Castle to our west, and most of them had horses, and most of them stabled with us overnight. We served knights and mercenaries and merchants and brigands, and I was just reaching an age where grown men took not a small amount of interest in trying to figure out my gender. I didn't have even a hint of a beard. My shoulders were narrow, and I had my mother's sharp features.

My shoulders were narrow, and I had my mother's sharp features. These are witches, though, Lane reminded me. They can see more than other people can. Are you trying to talk me out of it? I asked. No. She squeezed me tighter against her side as we walked. I'm just worried. What will you tell your dads? Or your mother? I won't tell Grell or Jorge anything. My dads had a home all the way in Port Sack. I lived with them every

autumn for a month or so when the storms kept them on land. Most of the year, I didn't hear from them, and their only contribution to my upbringing was the silver they sent my mother when they could. Mom, though? She'll understand. I love it like I love the barren, my mother said when I told her. That was about as close as she came to cursing. She sure didn't love barren-eed. No one did. She sat in her rocking chair, a clay mug of wine in her hand. I'd waited until after supper to tell her,

because she never took news well on an empty stomach. I didn't either come to think of it. She took a long draw of the mug. You're old enough to make your own mistakes. After that, she didn't say anything at all, which was kind of worse than her yelling at me, really.

It left me with nothing to do but stand around, there was only one good chair on the porch of the stable house, and come to my own conclusions about why it was a bad idea. I didn't want to do that. I'd made up my mind, so I tried not to linger on what the witches might do to me if they found out, or what knights sometimes did to witches. I'll get to learn magic, I said. Real magic. Cauldrons and curses, and maybe I'll even learn how to fly. What is it that you think witches do?

They travel around doing good things, I said. They help some people and hurt some people, depending on what they deserve. That's what you want to do? Help some people, hurt other people? Since when have you liked hurting people? I don't know, Mom. Since never, I guess. It was my turn to grow quiet. I'd probably learned that trick from her. The cicadas were out, and early too, filling the air with their rising and falling song. A town drunk said it was going to be an irrational year,

one of those years where the seasons don't do what they're supposed to and crops fail. No one paid him over much heed, but the cicadas really shouldn't have been out just yet. There's no way to disguise yourself, my mom said, breaking the silence. Not forever. You don't look it now, but you're going to grow into a man. By then, I bet I'll have magic enough to hide it, I said. I won't hear the end of it, never. Not from Grell.

When she invoked my birth father's name, I knew that was basically the end of it. She'd given up. I was my mother's child through and through, and she knew I didn't care what Grell thought. I hadn't inherited anything from Grell but skin half a shade darker than my mother's olive. This is it then, she said.

She poured the dregs of her wine off into the grass to honor the dead, as she did with every cup. The coven is going to be by soon enough, and you're going to lie to them, and you'll learn to be a witch. Not a sailor, not a knight, not, nethers forbid, a stablemaster, but a witch. My son, the witch. I nodded, grinning. She hadn't stopped me. I knew deep in my heart that if it was truly a terrible idea, my mother would have tried harder to stop me.

What's Lane going to do while you're off being her? She want to learn how to run a stable? She's going to be a knight. Of course she is, my mom sighed. I knew she wasn't happy about me leaving. I knew she wanted someone to care about the stables, about Ledston, the way she did. But that wasn't me.

It wouldn't have done anyone any good for me to pretend otherwise. But if you want to pretend to care about things, you can pretend to care about the advertisers that support the podcast that you run, much like I'm doing right now. Here's some ads. Hey, capitalism.

Hola, mi gente. It's Honey German, and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment

with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love.

Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German,

where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech

from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I

love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Hey, I'm Gianna Prandenti. And I'm Jimei Jackson-Gadsden.

We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, the early career podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. One of the most exciting things about having your first real job is that first real paycheck. You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions like, how should I be investing this money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k? Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud,

but I'm like, every single year, you need to be asking for a raise of somewhere between 10 to 15%. I'm not saying you're gonna get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting eight, that is actually a true raise. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show.

I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series,

Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me in a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom,

and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Black Lit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Black Lit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back. Witches don't really keep proper schedules, but most years they made their way down South Ede around Mother's May, the spring holiday. I figured I had about a week to prepare myself. The witches didn't know Lane by name. They were just coming for the daughter of Leona of the Lead, now that she'd seen 16 years. I started sleeping over at the lead manor in case they came at night.

The house was a decrepit shell, really. The rock walls overgrown with vines and half the lumber taken to rot. Lane did what she could to maintain it, but she'd lived there alone for three years. She spent most of her days working the communal fields and hadn't the skills or resources for serious repairs. The manor was a shadow of its former glory.

Bad Manor, Dead Manor, Lane called it, rhyming the name. A few hundred years ago, Lane's ancestors had founded the town to mine lead, then sworn fealty to some baroness or baron. Serfs moved in, and those who weren't mining took to farming on the communal fields. A hundred years back, collectivization had swept through the lowlands, and the baron had allowed it rather than lose power completely. Lane's family stayed richer than most of the rest of us, but only through trade and inheritance. They no longer ruled, and they no longer took tax. Only the Baron did either of those things. By Lane's mother's time, the family barely had

enough to maintain the ancient manor. The first night I spent there, waiting for the witches, Lane led me up treacherous stairs to her parents' old living quarters. We had to pick our way carefully across the sagging floor in the lamplight. I'm going to bring this place back to glory, Lane said, tugging her shirt sleeve free from a protruding nail. I'll be the first night protector Ledston's had in 50 years. You really think you'll come back? I asked. You won't? I mean, I'll visit my mom, I said. Sometimes. We could use a village witch, Lane said. Just think of this place with a night protector and a village witch. Too much world to see, I said. Since I'd made up my mind to join the witches, I'd spent half my time,

Since I'd made up my mind to join the witches, I'd spent half my time, waking and asleep, imagining all the things I was off to see and do. We stopped before a heavy cherry wood wardrobe set in the corner of the master bedroom. Its hinges were faded brass, but gold filigree still gleamed eternally bright along the door panels. Before Lane's mother died,

she had always kept us out of this room. After Lane's mother died, she had always kept us out of this room. After Lane's mother died, Lane herself had solemnly told me that this wardrobe was off limits. Lane selected an iron key hung on a chain from her belt and held it aloft

so we might appreciate the seriousness of the moment. You ready? She asked. I nodded. You ready? She asked. I nodded. I could scarcely wait. She opened the wardrobe. Black skirts and dresses

hung from hooks. Stockings woven in intricate patterns lay in a pile. Jewelry, finely crafted from plain materials, glittered beneath the glass lid of an ebony box. I'd studied at the loom enough to know

the long days it took to weave a few yards of flax or wool. This was the accumulated wealth of a life. My mother left pretty clear instructions for when I left to join the witches, Lane said. I was to bring a short dress, a long dress, a warm cloak, a winter skirt, and three pairs of stockings. So pick out whatever you'd like. My own dress. I would have my own dress. Two of them, even.

I spent most of an hour making my decision, modeling each garment in front of the mirror on the inside door of the wardrobe. Not even Leona of the Lead had ever owned a smooth glass mirror, so my image was distorted. That suited me fine. It let me imagine how I ought to look. I let my hair down out of its topknot. Long and straight and black, it framed my face well. I'd have worn it down all the time if I could. Though I was much taller than Lane, I was nearly the same size as

Leona had been. Most of the dresses sat funny across my chest since I had nothing to fill them out, and even fewer of them were loose enough across the hips to hide the bulge between my legs. But in the end, I found two that fit me just right. Both were high-waisted, which made my legs look longer and my torso shorter. One linen, one wool. When I wore those dresses, I couldn't stop smiling. You're beautiful, Lane said. She was smiling too. She thought for a moment, then dug through the wardrobe. She pulled out a necklace.

A black stone pendant hung from a delicate steel chain. She held it out to me. No one in town had anything so nice. Your mother didn't say anything about taking any jewelry, I said. She's dead. Take it. As a thank you. I took it and put it on. It hung just above the low neckline of the long dress, the stone cool and comforting against my chest.

Despite how I was born, I was going to get to be a witch. Despite how I was born, I was going to get to live as a woman. Lane squeezed me. She was crying into my neck. Thank you, she whispered. Of course, I started crying too. I slept in my long dress that night. I wanted to get used to wearing it,

and also I just didn't want to take it off. I slept in one of the empty rooms in the manor. A windstorm howled outside and branches cracked in the distance. I dreamt about a witch with translucent skin. I saw her skull and her veins and her teeth like I was looking through foggy glass. She was a real woman, a real witch who'd wandered through town when I was an infant. I'd dreamt about her ever since. That night, though, I was a witch,

and the glass-faced witch was with me, next to me, tied to me with thick hemp rope. We were in a boat. Hands lifted us out of the boat and threw us overboard, and we sank, and I was drowning, tied to the glass-faced witch. And if you want to survive drowning in a sea of choices, nothing can save you

except having those choices made for you already by choosing what to buy based on what advertises on your favorite show. Like these advertisers. Here they are. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite

has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that

actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you

love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm you get your podcasts. first real paycheck. You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone.

But you also have a lot of questions like, how should I be investing this money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k? Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Toot, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud, but I'm like, every single, you need to be asking for a raise of somewhere between 10 to 15%. I'm not saying you're going to get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting eight, that is actually a true raise. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird

concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's the one with the green guy on it. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life.

Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Mother's May came and went with no sign of the coven. No word from anyone passing through either. Though, of course, I had to be careful with my inquiries. Witches weren't beloved everywhere across Seacon. None of the baronies outlawed witchcraft outright, but not everyone knew and appreciated the social utility of witchcraft, and very few of the knightly brotherhoods would raise a hand or a sword to protect witches.

Some knights saw witches as a threat to their power and hunted them. If I told the wrong knights we were expecting witches, I might even get them killed. Most of the news was talk of strife far to the north. Duchess Helta had pressed some ancient and dubious claim and annexed some baron's holdings. The news felt impossibly distant. I tried to make myself useful at the stables, but as the days wore on, I got more and more anxious and distracted. One day, I forgot to fasten a buckle, and a passing merchant fell from her horse and injured her back. After that, my mother told me it was about time she got used to running the place alone anyway, which left me with too much time to worry.

What would witches do to an imposter? Would they kick me out, turn me into a sow, or kill me? They'd probably just kick me out. Maybe. My mother took to eating dinner with us at Lane's house, particularly after she fired me and I spent more of my time baking and cooking. Five days after Mother's May, I was reaching my breaking point. We ate on the back porch, where the overgrown garden kept away prying eyes, and I wore my breaking point. We ate on the back porch,

where the overgrown garden kept away prying eyes, and I wore my short dress. The sun was just below the horizon. We were mopping up the last of a turnip and barley soup with fresh baked bread, and I just couldn't keep my feelings cooped up anymore. I give up, I said. This waiting, it's going to kill me, or the witches will kill me, or people will kill me for being a witch. Better I just give up. I'll go be a sailor or something instead.

Sailors see the world too. Lane looked up, her brown eyes just starting to go wide with fear. If I backed out, the coven would take her instead. You can do anything you want with your life, Laurel, my mother said. I always knew Electra was coming when she used my name. And I don't wish you were off to be a witch, but you made a promise, Talayne. I didn't say I promise, I said. As soon as the words came out of my mouth, I regretted them. Saying you promise isn't the only way to promise.

It's okay, Lane said. It was nice of you to offer, but if you back out, it's okay. I didn't like my mom being mean to me, and I didn't like Lane being nice to me. I didn't like much of anything at all. The Ladston Bell told, twice. The Ladston Bell rang once for friendly knights and merchants come to town, twice for friendly brigands and witches and other people the Baron didn't approve of, three times for royalty, and cacophonously for any of the above who looked like they might stir up trouble. Never mind, I said, standing up. I'll do it. Upstairs with you, my mother said to Lane. Out of sight. You look too much like your mother.

Lane. Out of sight. You look too much like your mother. Lane darted over and hugged me. She pulled back to look at me like she was trying to say something. Then she gave up, shook her head, and ran into the house. Are you going through with this? My mother asked. I stood up straight, smoothed out my dress. Of course, I said, I made a promise. My arms shook uncontrollably at my side as I walked to the center of town, and it was all I could do to concentrate on my breathing. We have come for the daughter of Leona of the Lead.

Five witches stood shoulder to shoulder in the center of the town square. My whole childhood, I'd wanted to know about witches. It was always hard to separate rumor from truth, but I knew a few things. I knew that every full-fledged witch was the other's equal for one thing. Each of these five wore black from head to toe, despite the warm evening and the heat radiating from the cobbles beneath their boots. One was roughly my mother's age, with the ivory pale skin and narrow nose of someone from the far north. Two of them were as old as anyone I'd ever seen.

Two of them could scarcely have been twenty. One of the youngest had a fresh wound cut across her face and stood with the help of a crutch. Two of the others had bandaged arms. They must have had trouble on the way. Maybe that was why they were so late. Most of them were armed with spears or axes or swords. The uninjured young one carried what looked like a birdcage, covered with a cloth embroidered in the indecipherable runes of witchcraft.

Behind them, a girl my age stood shyly, like she didn't know quite what to do. Another recruit, most likely. She wore the most beautiful black cloak, made of glistening seawool. Its hood had a long, pointed tail. That was a good cloak for a witch. I'm Laurel, I said. I lie the best when I sort of just avoid telling the truth instead of lying outright, so I didn't mention that I only had one name. I stepped forward. One witch, one of the crones, broke from the line and circled me, looking me over. The rest of the witches carried baskets of wicker on their backs, but this woman bore a casket, child-sized, instead.

Laurel of the Lead, she said. My name was just Laurel, as my family bore no titles, but who was I to correct a witch who'd likely been born before my long-dead great-grandmother? She stopped in front of me. Do you come willing, or merely accepting? she asked.

There was an old scar on her cheek, a crescent moon, white against her dark olive skin. I come willing, I said. My voice wavered as I spoke. What had I gotten myself into? With eyes as old and wise as hers, how could she not see right through me? The witch smiled.

Some of her teeth were yellow. Some of her teeth were black. One of her teeth was Captain Gold, another Captain Pearl. The contrast between them all was unnerving. Not many come willing, not these past years. Why? I asked. She ignored my question and went back to stand in the line. Only a handful of people had gathered to see this strange procession. The herbalist, a few farmers, the midwife, River's mother. If any one of them said anything about me

dressed up like a girl, the whole plan would fall apart. My mother stood among the onlookers, balancing my wicker basket of clothes on her hip, holding it by one of the woven shoulder straps. Laurel of the Lead, I summon you into the Order of the Vine. Today and forever, you are Laurel of the Vine. I nodded. I knew no courtly manners for an event like this.

Do you have anything to bring with you? Just clothes, I said. My mother walked toward me then, setting the basket down by my feet. Tears welled in the corners of her eyes. You've been like a daughter to me, my mother said. She winked and hugged me for a moment. Go off and be your best self.

The crone looked between me and my mother for a brief moment, as if noticing the similarities in our features, but she said nothing. With no more formality, line of witches turned and walked out of town. I grabbed my basket of clothes and hurried after. They hadn't seen through me. I was going to be a witch.

I wasn't shaking anymore. I was grinning. Yeah! Yay! And that is the first chapter of The Sapling Cage. And if you want to hear more of it, you have to get the audiobook, and you can listen to Jackie read you the entire book,

which I didn't think I was going to do, because I don't tend to read my own stuff too much i mean like i actually have to read this again like a bunch because i'm working on the sequels right oh sure yeah yeah but like i think i'm gonna listen to audiobook of it i think it's gonna be fun thank you yeah i i mean i had a wonderful time working on it just because like there were so many like cool characters and also like i fell in love with the setting as well and also like the concept of like here's this coming of age magic story that's not turfy yeah totally like you know like speaking as a former potterhead like it was it was really really nice to to have like a magic

story that i got to tell because this was the first time i had ever gotten to tell any sort of coming-of-age story as like a trans person okay or if not the first one of the first yeah but yeah so it it meant a lot that i got to like like sort of help bring this story to life. And I had such a good time with it. And I will say this job is a lot easier when the writing is good. And the writing is so good in this book. So thank you. Even if you're not going to listen to me,

you should buy the book listeners. You should buy the book and give it a read. Cause holy hell, it's a wonderful story. Even with the way you're saying about, you know, the book and give it a read because holy hell, it's a wonderful story. Even with the way you're saying about, you know, the writing itself on something, right? When I read for this show, I find that certain stories are so much easier to read than others, just in terms of the number of retakes I need to do. And it's interesting because even listening to you, like obviously no one will hear that you ever had to do any retakes, but there's a couple,

no one will hear that you ever had to do any retakes but there's a couple right a few and but most of the retakes are kind of like the way that you accidentally read it first is the way that's a little bit more natural you know so just interesting thinking about the way that yeah the the type of prose like especially when i read like weird old 19th century stuff i'm like nothing's written in the way that you expect it to be. And, you know, but yeah, no, I, I don't know. It's funny. Cause I'm like, usually talk about the text or whatever afterwards, but then I'm like, well, I wrote it. I have both all of the thoughts and none of the thoughts. I mean, let me ask you a few questions about it. So I think I remember when we were like talking in pre-production about this, you said you had started writing this story, what, like 10 years back?

Almost 10 years back. It was probably 2016 or so. Wow. Eight years or so. Yeah. And was there something that sort of like helped this story come to you? Were there like experiences you had

or were you just like, wow, we were missing this kind of story? There's a couple different things. There's like one that I give credit to. Have you read the Song of the Lioness series by Tamora Pierce? I have not, but that's not the first time I've heard of that series.

Yeah. It's about a young girl whose brother has promised to go be a knight and doesn't want to be a knight. He wants to be a wizard. And so she dresses up as a boy and goes off and becomes a knight. And I read that when I was in fifth grade, and it blew my little gender confused brain in a way that I still don't entirely know

how to wrap my head around. Like, oh yeah, I'm a girl who likes swords who pretended to be a boy for her entire childhood. Like, you know, I identify with that character. Oh yeah. And I wanted to do something kind of the other direction. And there was actually a short story that somebody who's sometimes a guest on my other show,

Lori Penny wrote. I actually don't think it's been published, but I read it while we were in a writing workshop together that had as like a side character, a boy who went off to become a witch. And so I think that that idea was always kind of sitting in the back of my mind. And I have very like confused ideas about, you know, gender is like a moving target. And the way we talk about it as a society is a moving target. Oh, absolutely. It's different now than it was in 2016 when i came out and it's different in 2016 than it was in 2004

when i you know first started calling myself margaret because i managed to call myself margaret for 12 years before i bothered telling anyone i was a girl sometimes that's how it goes i know like that was nice about like punk scenes as people were like yeah all right yeah they're like yeah sure yeah when I was like a street kid like I remember like sleeping in Tompkins Square Park and I would do this thing where I would wear cargo pants and then a loose maxi skirt over it and so that when I needed to like boy mode really quickly I would just tuck the skirt into the pockets of the cargo pants that's a smart move yeah yeah no it worked for me and like i remember one time i was like just like sleeping in the park during the day and then i like woke up and ran somewhere and i wasn't thinking about it my like

skirt fell down and all the like they weren't like the cool punks they were like the kind of scary punks or whatever they saw it and they were like yeah all right whatever and i was like oh right folks who live on the edge of society don't give a shit about stuff like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really funny how, like, you said how, like, gender is this, like, constantly moving target and all of that.

Yeah. Because, like, yeah, that is something that I'm still feeling. Because, like, for me, it was, like, I remember being young and, like, feeling some way about gender, but not really having, like, the vocabulary to describe it

i remember like learning what a lesbian was and like feeling like wow that resonates with me for some reason i guess i'm like a lesbian in the body of a young boy and then i proceeded to not think about that for 15 years yeah totally and then like when i was in high school i started to like develop like attractions to like the boys my age and i was like oh oh so I'm gay okay I guess that makes sense and then I ran with that until I was in college and then my freshman year I had this what I can only describe as a dysphoric breakdown in front of the mirror okay and then that got me like being like okay what is this gender stuff because stuff is happening then I learned like yeah about the gender fluid kind of label and non-binary and just how it's not necessarily

like this purely defined like man or woman kind of thing and how that was like a thing and i was like okay i'm probably somewhere in that camp i guess like we'll go with like queer ish and then i didn't really do anything beyond that i had like done some research into like do i want to transition do i not want to transition and like at the time I was like I don't think this is for me at least not right now yeah and then I ran with that of like yeah I'm this queer person who's very like male presenting and all of that and then the pandemic of 2020 happened and I had all of this free time to actually think about like things in life and like being like huh when faced with the very real prospect of my own mortality am i like any regrets and i was like kind of wish i had explored like gender a little more and you know maybe like dipped my toes into like i don't

know like what's hrt about and then i remember like having those thoughts and i was like oh son of a bitch okay i guess i have to do the thing I've been avoiding doing I guess I have to do the thing that I've been avoiding thinking about for a while and so like I got a therapist and like talked things out and like we both very quickly like came to the consensus of like yeah you're trans yeah and I was able to start HRT oh yeah but like yeah it's really funny because like i remember starting like hrt and like i was very much like playing with like they them she her she they i was she they for a while and then i kept getting consistently they them only. And so I was like, okay, I think a lot of this was from like the, the CIS people in my life who I love dearly.

Yeah. I like love you all. And like, believe me, I was happy that y'all were so willing to practice they them because that's hard for CIS people. Right. Totally.

But it eventually got to the point where I was like, all right, y'all are constantly they theming me and never she, she herring me right, y'all are constantly they, theming me and never she, she, her, me. So y'all have lost your, they,

them rights. And so, and so I was like, strictly she, her for a couple of years after that. And then it's only recently that I have gone back to she, they, because I was like,

okay, this feels more accurate. Yeah. And another weird thing that I noticed was like, while, while transitioning and like allowing myself to like have these thoughts and things was that i realized that i didn't suddenly go from the gay man that i thought i was to the straight girl and like i started i started to realize i

had like sapphic feelings for some women and i was like oh oh we're bi son Son of a bitch. Okay, so over the years, I've resonated with pretty much all the letters, and I've won Queer Bingo. It's like, I don't know what I win, other than bragging rights, I say in your quotes, but like... A combination of oppression points and regular oppression.

Yeah, yeah. All this is to say is just that, like, yeah, gender is funny. Gender and sexuality are weird and cool and yeah it's not always this super defined thing i really resonate with what you're saying about like for me the decision to come out in 2016 was that a trans woman i know died in the ghost ship fire in oakland which was a diy space that burned down in I believe the end of 2016 and it was like right before my birthday and I was just like

and it's awful and selfish but you know I was like oh what if I died right so it's the same thing it's like staring at your mortality and you're just like well I don't want to be remembered so completely incorrectly you know I just don't want to be like

just like imagining my own tombstone with like the wrong name on it you know and you know i like just don't want to be like just like imagining my own tombstone with like the wrong name on it you know and you're just like yeah it's hard and it's hard to imagine that and so that was like yeah that was a lot of what made it feel necessary for me to come out and it's interesting because in this book, you know, the protagonist, not to spoil anything, the protagonist is like, you know, questioning her feelings around gender and like explores it in a lot of different ways. And one of the things I really liked about getting to do this is that getting to explore gender in a world that just isn't ours. Like this isn't like, no one's going to come up in this book, spoiler,'s going to be like hi i'm she they you know even though i'm a she that it was written by a she they right but like

but since gender is a social construct it's going to be constructed differently in a like medieval fantasy setting and that's like one of the things that i i really want to explore with it and i i hope that folks are able to kind of get out of it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I'm so looking forward to reading the next installment in the series because just to watch how more things develop with the story and like certain, again, I won't give spoilers, but certain relationships and friendships and dynamics that developed in this first book and see how they continue to develop and grow. Yeah. And if folks want to hear what the book is, you can listen to it. And if you're like, I hate to say it's like, it's obviously a book about a

trans girl, but it is not primarily a book about gender. It is primarily a book about why I like Spears. It is primarily a book that is a high fantasy YA about, I mean, honestly, the big metaphor that is in this, if you listen to my history podcast, you'll understand that I'm obsessed with the enclosure of the commons and taking things that are wild and communal and putting them into the hands of only a few people in a specialized way. And how that's empowered capitalism and all those things like that's actually the the plot right the character and the identity of the character is that she is trans feminine the plot of the book is these trees that are dying and what is to be done about it so if you're like well if you hate gender stuff you're not going to like it. So if you're like,

well, if you hate gender stuff, you're not going to like this book. But if you're like, not specifically looking for a gender book, it doesn't matter. This isn't specifically a gender book. It just happens to be that as well. It just happens to have a trans feminine protagonist. Yeah.

And like other queer people in it too. And but it's never, at least the way it read to me was like, it seemed perfectly natural. It didn't feel like, I know there are folks out there who say that we're constantly like shoving it down their throat or whatever. And I mean, I can speak for myself here, but like, that's not at all how the text came across to me.

But if you're listening to this and you would like to start a campaign against this book, all publicity is free publicity. campaign against this book all publicity is free publicity and so i will pretend that it's a gender book if uh if it i don't know if i actually feel that way because like part of me is like ha ha ha if i got a list of banned books like imagine what that'll do for my career and then i'm like it also just sucks because i actually want this book to be available to kids to read there's a thing in like yes yes that would definitely get more eyes on it. And also, I mean, listen,

like I think queer stories are really important and especially like stories like this, like they're always important, but I feel like now especially,

in our current political climate and day and age and all of the scariness that has been sort of centered around queer and trans people in particular, I think this story is like super important. And I think people should read it. I know that like, at least again, speaking for myself, if I had gotten to read this book

as a kid, my life would have been very different. Yeah. And like positive. Yeah. My life would have been really different and I would have figured stuff out a lot sooner. That was a big part of it as I was like, I want to write the book that I want to give to 12 year old me, you know? Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, I think we're kind of out of time, but thanks for joining us on Cool Zone Media Book Club. The book is called The Sapling Cage. It comes out September 24th, 2024 from Feminist Press. And you all should listen to the audiobook. Do you have anything else that you want to plug?

Do you have like other books that you're like, go out and listen to this other book I did? Or what else have you been working on? Oh, God. If you want to hear another story, like narrating like a trans person's perspective, if you listen to Five Part Invention by Andrea J. Buchanan, I got to work with four other extremely talented narrators on that. And it's a heavy story. It deals with like generational trauma, but it's very, very well crafted. And I thought that

Zoe's part of it in particular, which is the character that I got to read for, was especially handled with care. And that was really well done. Another trans story I recently got to read, the autobiography of Philippa Ryder, who is this really badass trans rights activist in Ireland. And that was really cool. That sounds cool. Other than that, if you're more of like the superhero kind of stuff, I've read several Spider-Man books as well.

So you can check those out. You mean there's secretly trans people in the Spider-Man world as well. So you can check those out. You mean there's secretly trans people in the Spider-Man world? Yeah. Whoops. But I've done a lot of different stuff, but I guess those were some of the standouts for me. Okay.

So I didn't have anything more eloquent to plug or to say. Oh no, you warned me ahead of time that you're not an improviser. You work from scripts. And then I asked you questions that I didn't warn you I was going to ask. So. It's all scripts. And then I asked you questions that I didn't warn you I was going to ask. So it's all right. It happens.

But I encourage everybody to check out more of that quality queer literature. Hell yeah. And if you want to see the two of us together in person, us even meeting in person for the first time. Yes. On October 15th at the Ann Arbor District Library at the downtown location at 6.30 p.m.,

I'm going to be on tour with the Sapling Cage. And it's going to be sweet because instead of me having to do a reading, I'm going to make Jackie do it. 6.30 p.m., October 15th, the Ann Arbor District Library in its downtown location. Hell yeah. I'm so looking forward to that. All right. I'll talk to everyone next week.

Have a good week. Bye. Bye. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com. Thanks for listening. sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

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Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking música, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only Nuestra Gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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or wherever you get your podcasts.