It Could Happen Here - CZM Book Club: "Transmutation" by Katherine Sparrow

Episode Date: April 7, 2024

Margaret reads Sophie a story of love gone wrong between a magician and an alchemist.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and

expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. The 2025 iHeart Podcast Awards are coming. This is the chance to nominate your podcast for the industry's biggest award. Submit your podcast for nomination now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th. Hey, you've been doing all that talking.

It's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Call zone media. Book club, book club, book club, book club book club book club i wonder if that'll ever get old for us or the listener the fact that you can't coordinate a chant over zoom absolutely not yeah you can introduce cool sun media book club which which comes out every Sunday and is a piece of fiction read by me, Margaret Kiljoy. And today, my guest is the only award-winning guest we've ever had.

Sophie Lichterman. Hi. Maybe other people have won awards. I'm not sure. They only give them to me legally. Oh, okay. Yeah yeah all awards in the world go to sophie that seems fair sophie does all of the work in the world including running all of the great cool zone media podcasts that you listen to whether on mic or behind the scenes but i was like i want sophie to be the guest of this story well i've been requesting this specific kind of

story since we first started talking about doing this book club series i know and i i'm gonna still find you another sophie has asked for a love story yeah and this is not a this is not a happy ending love story but it is a story about the complications of love and it is a one of the best uses of genre fiction to describe relationship dynamics that i've ever read that's so cool and so i was excited to have you on for it because this week's story is by an author named katherine sparrow oh katherine sparrow cool oh awesome cool oh i'm so excited katherine Catherine Sparrow. Oh, Catherine Sparrow. Cool. Oh, awesome. Cool. Oh, I'm so excited. Catherine Sparrow is a writer who is deeply interested in creating stories about transformation, struggle, and solidarity. You can check out her debut fantasy book, Little Apocalypse, which is about deadly monsters and a kid who loves them.

And this particular story was originally published in Fantasy Magazine under the title Chemical Magic. But it comes to us under the title Transmutation. I'm so excited. This is going to be so nice. And just some context for the listeners. I have had back to back to back to back to back stuff this entire day. And I was like, Magpie, can I get 10 minutes to eat? And her suggestion was, why don't you mute yourself while I read you this story?

And I was like, lunch hour story time? So I highly recommend soothing eating while listening to Magpie tell me a love story that Of sorts. Doesn't actually end with Hollywood ending. With a Hollywood ending. That doesn't actually end with Hollywood ending. With a Hollywood ending. That doesn't actually end with a Hollywood ending. Yeah. And I want to, at some point,

I'm going to get you another love story to read because there are really good stories that do end with a little bit more happiness. But I just, I really like this story. Transmutation by Catherine Sparrow. One. The magician pulled a rabbit, a sock monkey, a rainbow, and a flowering plum tree out of his hat. He reached in deeper for everything that was missing. He searched for something, anything, that would make it right and bring her back from the far-off land 17 subway stops away.

His gap-toothed audience, smiling and applauding, yelled for him to do more while the birthday boy sucked on a large purple lollipop. The magician began pulling kerchiefs from his sleeve, a huge pile of bright-colored silks, never-ending as they fell onto the floor around his shiny leather boots. He stared down at them and knew,

no matter how long he kept pulling, that there could never be enough to cover his grief. When his performance was done, the children clapped. The parents smiled. He bowed and scurried home to his lonely apartment, empty except for the box that was his best trick. If only a girl allowed him to do it. The alchemist scratched her nose with a gnawed fingernail and watched the flow of information that turned pithy phrases into charitable donations. She clicked over to the Alchemists for Peace Project's financial page and made a complicated exchange that turned euros into gold sterling.

She felt a small contentment and held on to that feeling until it faded away. Maybe I'll go see a movie, she said out loud, as though she had roommates. She scratched her belly along the red-lined scar and missed him for a moment. There were still good memories that made her ache. She looked out the window and saw one of the magician's doves pecking at his foot where a message had been tied to his leg. The alchemist opened the window, took the trembling bird into her hands, and untied the message. She turned the paper into fire. Two months earlier, the magician stood on the dance floor,

wondering how to magic his feet into graceful motion rather than the choppy, glitched movement of a 13-year-old boy. He hated his dancing, but hated more those men who stood in the club's shadows and watched without ever moving their bodies. So he bounced and swayed while his elbows jerked backwards in a hopeless gesture. He hit something soft that squished and said, He spun around to see a woman holding her breast and glaring at him. She had the kind of breasts he loved, round and droopy. Sorry, he mouthed over the bass boom. She rolled her eyes.

He tried to elbow himself in the chest. It only seemed fair. But the laws of physics only allowed him a blow to the belly. At least it made her smile a little. Her hard-edged face turned lovely for a moment. She flinched a little when he reached forward and pulled a lollipop from behind her ear. She shook her head and patted her lips with two fingers, so he reached behind her other ear and pulled out a cigarette. He followed her outside, out past the butchy ladies comparing pecs, to the alley full of rain and soggy cardboard.

I'm the magician, he said. Alchemist, she replied. She took a mote of dust from her pocket and placed it on the edge of her cigarette. She turned the dust into flame. Those things will kill you, he said. Cancer turns cells into monsters, she said, with professional admiration. The alchemist offered him a drag and he took it, shivering a little when he placed the wet tip on his lips.

So magician, what kind of magic are you into? He shrugged. Anything, really. Magic is all one thing underneath. I keep most of my tricks small so I don't scare people, so they don't ask too many questions, you know? I do. She smiled. At least people understand what a magician is.

Everyone thinks an alchemist makes perfume. One time, I turned perfume into urine. But that's not really my thing. Why'd you do it? Oh, a lover cheated on me. The magician nodded. He thought about the women he'd been with, how they'd all turned from something magical into something awful.

Maybe an alchemist could keep that from happening. I bet your current lover doesn't cheat, he said, trying not to sound too obvious. She raised one eyebrow. I hope he won't. She stared until the magician felt himself turning into something hot and bothered. She walked away and he followed, listening as she turned words into a smoldering flirtation. He pulled flower after flower from his breast pocket until he found her favorite, a calla

lily, and tucked it behind her ear. She turned his apartment key into an invitation. He led her through his doorway and into the world of his magical carpet, his magical bed, and his magical bathtub. All of which are for sale from our sponsors. Get your own magical carpet, bed, and bathtub from Magical Bed, Bathtub, Carpet, and Beyond. I was hoping you were going to do the beyond part. I was like, it was right there. Yes, it's pretty much necessary.

Yeah. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real,

inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning

economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough,

so join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean.

He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez.

At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story,

as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Three. Some days they made elaborate plans and then never ended up leaving the bed. Other days they would go to the movies like teenagers in search of a dark space. They would come out dazed, not having any idea what it was about. I want to know everything about you, the magician said.

The alchemist reminded herself to stay safe. She pulled herself out of his arms and sighed. You know what happens when you get too close to an alchemist? I'd like to find out, the magician teased. Poor fool, he understood nothing. He grinned, took a pair of lovebirds out of his vest pocket and let them fly into the air. They swooped and swirled around each other, fainting and surging, in a secret bird dance before settling down on the magician's shoulder.

One thing becomes another, she lectured him. Objects lose integrity. Transmutation is a true danger of my profession. She talked on about how it worked, but wasn't sure why she bothered. He played with his birds and didn't listen. He didn't understand. Maybe he didn't want to. The alchemist took one of the birds into her hands and licked her fingers.

When she stroked its green feathered head, its feathers grew black and crow-like. She whispered in its ear to be free and let the bird fly. Four. I want to see what you can really do, he said to her one day at the park. All the squirrels watched her, and all the boats in the sailboat pond blew towards her. The magician couldn't tear his attention away from her, and his magic leaked out all over the park. It filled him up and spilled all over. He'd never been happier. What I can really do? She smiled with equal parts condescension and affection. She liked him, he knew that, but not as much as he liked her. She kept her distance. He hated that. Most things can become most other things, she said.

The key is to figuring out how it changes. Like water into wine. You want to know how Jesus did it? Sure, the magician said. He glanced around, hoping no one religious stood nearby. The only people nearby were little kids trying to push their boats away from her and back out to the middle of the pool. So, they're both liquids. That helps, but it doesn't go very far. Water quenches one kind of thirst and wine another, physiological and psychological. So, that moves them closer together. Then consider how water to the thirsty is a relief and how alcohol to the wary is a relief. She gazed out across the oval pond. When I hold all of that in my mind, then it is only a

small step into knowing what chemical compounds are needed to bridge the difference between them. She opened her clunky purse and took out what looked like a moldy breadcrumb. She flicked it into the water and it sank down between the bobbing miniature sailboats. The magician blinked and in the time it took for his eyes to flutter back open, the water became a dark red stain stretching the length of the pool. The alchemist cupped her hand and dipped it into the liquid. She sipped it delicately. A fine Sangiovese. You are amazing. I love you. The words slipped out, and he wondered if she had given him something to turn

his infatuation into something deeper. Her wary smile told him she had not. The magician lowered his mouth to the red liquid of the pond and drank as much as he could without choking. Your face is a mess, she said when he sat back up again. A cold breeze blew across the pond, She said when he sat back up again. A cold breeze blew across the pond, capsizing some of the sailboats. They left as kids started crying and parents began swearing and making phone calls to the city water department. 5. They spent Monday through Friday playing phone tag, always missing each other.

The alchemist was busy with guild meetings, dinner with friends, and deadlines. She watched the magician's anger when he couldn't spend time with her. She worried over his brooding. She tried to educate him about balance and object integrity. The magician left flowers that bloomed into other flowers on her doorstep. He made her a box of endless chocolates. The truffles made me a little sick, she admitted later. I turned them into toffees. Less intense, I guess. With little gestures and words, she tried

to keep both of them safe, even though he was such a pretty magician. Six. Show me a trick, the alchemist said to the magician. They sat at a booth in a restaurant where the food was much too greasy, but she'd sprinkled her own salt on top of the fried blintzes to turn them nourishing and healthy without losing any taste. She turned their sprites into gin and tonics, and both of them were tipsy. The magician put on a smile and held up his fork. It drooped in the middle. She laughed and brushed her fingers across his forearm.

He felt a chasm between them, even though she sat two feet away. More, please? She sucked on her straw. He liked the way alcohol softened her. Magic is fussy, it comes and goes, he said. It's an art, not a science. He said the words that all magicians are taught to say in order to hide their inadequacy and if you want to hide your inadequacy

you can buy a brand new car from cars are us I hope that's not a real thing I feel like there are brands that are very similar to that I know I was going to be like cars.com but that's probably real there's brands that are very similar to that. I know, I was going to be like cars.com, but that's probably real.

There's ones that are like, get your car from a vending machine type shit. And I'm like, sure. Yeah, why not? You can get anything from any of our sponsors. You call them, they will sell you anything that you ask for, as long as it's legal to sell and not a crime for me to say that you should call them to ask for but here are those ads hey guys i'm kate max you might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show,

where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens.

So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires.

From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. lose. This season I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse, and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong though, I love technology, I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to god things can change if we're loud enough, so join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian.

Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back.

She nodded and yawned into the palm of her hand. He was losing her. The magician ran his hand through her hair, as much to remind himself that he could, as for the feel of her tangled curls that came undone beneath his touch. Magic can be dangerous, he said. He sipped the perfectly balanced gin and tonic. For small things, it will act predictably, but it's like electricity, always taking the most direct path home. And the bigger the magic, the more it can spark and spike. His hands shook,

and he looked away. Explaining any of it made him feel naked in a new way. But you're a really good magician, right? The alchemist asked. He nodded. He wanted it to be true, and besides, she looked so interested. There is one trick, my best trick, he said. Maybe she would finally be the girl who liked it. Drink all of that, he ordered her, and then took a big gulp of his own drink. Let's go to my place. The magician pulled five dollar bills out of his nose until he had enough to cover the bill. He clutched her hand as they walked through the dusky city and up the stairs to his apartment.

A month ago, she turned his dryer lint into lavender seeds and the whole place smelled hopeful. The magician took off his vest and hat and gestured for the alchemist to sit at his kitchen table. For tonight and one night only, he began, come see the magician's most daring and death-defying trick. He paused and studied the curl of her smile. Her fingers twitched and a pack of cards appeared in one hand. She raised an unimpressed eyebrow. Good, start with low stakes, as though nothing interesting would happen. He threw the cards up into the air and they burst into tiny fireworks before disappearing. He coughed and then pulled a three-foot-long rapier out of his mouth. The razor-sharp edge cut the top of his palate and his mouth filled with blood.

The alchemist applauded. It was time. We are ready for this, he decided. For my next trick, I will need an assistant. Is there anyone in the audience, any brave girl willing to help? The alchemist raised her hand and the magician spent a long moment scanning his lazy boy, his fish tank, and the stereo before finally noticing her. Ah, yes, you, fine lady. What is your name? The alchemist, she said primly. Ah, a perfumist in the house. How lovely. She stuck her tongue out and took his outstretched hand.

You sure about this, he whispered. You trust me? You wanted that more than anything. She hesitated and then nodded. He led her into the bedroom and over to the box that sat near his window. It stood on 16 legs and every inch of it was carved and painted with a faded carnival, cobalt and umber. The magician opened the lid and gestured for the alchemist to lay down within it. The length of her body went inside the box while her head and feet stuck out the ends.

One thing, she said, looking a bit frozen. If I say stop, you have to. Her boundary hit the magician like a slap. He smiled, shut the lid to the box, and slid four different bolts shut. The magician opened a slim drawer on the side of the box and took out two panes of glass, knife sharpened along one edge. His hands trembled as he showed them to her, peering through them and smiling. The colors of her face bleached out to white. Magic and need bubbled through him, seeking release. He took the sheets and held them above the perfectly fitted slots of the box that lay just above her belly. She

cleared her throat, about to say something, maybe about leaving him. We both need this, he thought. It will bring us closer. He plunged the panes of glass into her, through her. Magic flushed through him, hard and down. It caught on her spinal cord before slicing through. She screamed. Quiet, it doesn't hurt, he said. That was part of the trick. The magician didn't look at her face,

but knelt down and rolled away the two separate pieces of the box. Through the glass, he could see her internal landscape. She can't hide from me anymore, he thought. Her scream turned into a short, panting breath. Look away, she whispered. Please. He had already split her in two, so how could he resist? He turned torso side and watched a lovely red carp flit about,

moving in and out of her undulating organs. Its mouth gaped in open O shape. Around her stomach, he saw grandma curled up and sleeping with her grandchild. The magician smiled and peered closer. Something tar-like oozed around her liver, taking on shadowy, menacing forms. Please stop. Put me back together, please, she begged. It doesn't hurt, the magician repeated. Everyone is so sure it will hurt, but it doesn't. I'm a good magician, so it doesn't. The magician turned to look into her lower half. At the center lay a coiled pit viper who pulled back its head and struck at the glass. He studied the marrow of her slit bones and watched rainbows

swirling through her left side. A whispering came from her right. He leaned close, but he couldn't make out any of the words. You're way more amazing than any other woman I've looked into. Not that there's been many, he added hurriedly, not wanting her to think this meant nothing to him. When he was done, he pushed the two sides of the box back together and looked at her face. Her eyes looked cartoonish and huge. It doesn't hurt, he whispered. It may be shocking, but there's no pain, right? He took out four more panes of glass to separate her legs from each other and to sever a section of her torso off. There was still so much more to see.

He saw everything, and she made sense to him now. He saw that she loved him in the curl of bright green leaves growing through her steadfast heart. Feeling sated and a little faint, he pushed the box back together and pulled out the panes of glass streaked with red and a faint sheen of viscera. He held his hand over the box,

let magic flow out and through him, putting her back together until he became empty. He unlocked the box and pulled her limp form out, pulling her into his arms. She wouldn't look at him and kept her face turned away like a stubborn child. He went to go get two glasses of water from the kitchen. She had lost fluids and was probably thirsty. He couldn't wait to tell her what he'd seen,

what he knew now. When he came back, she was gone. She'd turned the front door into a massive wasp nest and written a note she'd left on the box. I warned you. He started crying. He thought she'd be the one who would be a good box girl. He had hoped an alchemist would understand him. And she loved him. He knew that. He'd seen it.

Maybe she needed a little time. He turned back to the box and ran a finger along one of the glass panes. He touched his reddened finger to his tongue, tasting her. It held nuances of smoke, rain, and fresh bread. He took each of the glass panes and licked them clean. The magician slept an uneasy sleep and woke with the feeling that his half-remembered dreams had all been violent. He got up to make his coffee and felt a weight and shift of gravity within his body. Something fluttered in his belly and he ran to the bathroom, just getting to the toilet as he started throwing up. Red carp slipped out of his throat and into

the toilet bowl. They swam in circles in the water. He ran a hand through his hair and it felt thick and curly like the alchemists. When he peed, he felt the sting of snake venom burning his urethra from the inside. He called the alchemist and left her a long message, saying that he missed her and loved her, and that yesterday had been the best moment of his life. His voice squawked and brayed like a teenager's. Not knowing what to do, he made eggs and toast, but they tasted wrong in his mouth. He drank black coffee instead, just like she liked it. Wasps swarmed around his food, stealing tiny chunks with their front legs and buzzing around him.

He left her another message, saying some weird things were happening. What should he do to change back? Then he left another, telling her how beautiful she was, inside and out, but mostly inside. Two days later, he started to shake. At first it was a physical sensation, but it invaded everything and he panicked, unable to calm down, to sit still, to do anything but freak out. Someone had cut him up into pieces, someone he loved, had done that and liked it, and he couldn't catch his breath, and also that someone was him, and he had loved it, and he had cried and cried liked it and he couldn't catch his breath and also that someone was him and he

had loved it and he had cried and cried loud and ugly. He went to his box and came close to destroying him but parts of him were still him so he did not. The panic turned to grayness, to a nothingness like he sat in a shroud of clouds and could touch nothing, feel nothing. He needed her, he thought numbly. She had done this to him. She had destroyed him. He didn't want to know what it felt like to have a magician cut you in half and love it even as you begged him to stop. But she had invaded him with herself. He sickened himself and he was himself. He wrote on a piece of paper, I get it. I know what I did, and tied it to his pigeon's foot, sending it out to find her. When the pigeon came back, he wrote another note.

You warned me. I get it now. And... You should have told me how dangerous you are. Even as he wrote the words, he knew that she had told him, and he hadn't listened. He called more magic into him than ever before, and tried to make a spell that would turn back time. He tried to change fact into fiction, to erase his own memory, to become wise and not care about any of this. He failed, over and over again. He had never been a very good magician. The end.

Yay! I took a lot of notes cool that was really good it gets kind of intense i i have to admit i liked it it was like i was like slow burn slow burn slow burn fire yeah um my favorite line i wrote it down was i keep all of my tricks small so I don't scare people. That is an incredible line. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Another part that I thought was interesting was the flower choice.

Because the evolution of the cowlily and the meaning behind it. I think it was back in Egypt. It meant, you know, the meaning behind it, the i think it was back in egypt it meant you know the meaning behind it the symbolism behind it was more of like sexuality and it's matured throughout the years to mean more of like and i'm thinking just broadly speaking is more of you know union and uh purity and marriage and things like that so it's interesting it's interesting interesting that choice of flower is interesting to me and i don't know if that's what the author had in mind but that's what came to my weird plant loving brain yeah no i good i wouldn't be surprised if that was a a conscious choice but i love all of the symbols throughout it all the carp the lavender seeds the like

this is such a beautiful story and yet i mean it's so brutal yeah but it like i understand why fiction has to engage with like really hard and complex and dark subjects right in order to say a lot of true and meaningful things, you have to sometimes go a little dark. And I feel like the average author doesn't really earn that, you know, like the average author is just like, and now for some shock value. And then like this story is about a consent violation and it is framed non-sexually on purpose.

And it is like really clear. it's like oh let's talk about what the story is but to me it's just it's so clear it's like yeah the story says it better than what i could think of to say about it in most ways yeah it started off where i was like this is giving very much 500 days of summer vibes where it's like happy i don't know if you've ever seen that movie i don't think so is that a is that one is like a manic pixie dream girl it's it's a story where you're seeing two versions of a love story that isn't actually a love story and uh the male protagonist is protagonist in quotes um is definitely more into her than she's into him but he has this version of what's happening within their relationship that is his made-up version

and it's and it's actually not the love story that the audience thinks is unfolding and you get the real versions of what's actually happening and it's very much that he's so much into more into her which i think is something that happens in in this episode and there's you know different boundaries that are that are not respected and it starts off i feel like the story starts off with a lot of that the same metaphors um and then it gets lit on fire which is really cool and like they could have done that in 500 days summer and it would have been really cool. Yeah. But I think there's just so many ways that this magician, first of all, don't match with a witchy woman.

Don't, don't mess with a witchy woman. She has magical powers. Yeah. Good lord, man. There's going to be wasps in your apartment. It's not going to be good. Yeah. Yeah.

not going to be good yeah yeah um i i think this is just a really interesting story about why boundaries are so important and why you should listen to people when they say things to you yeah and and one of the things i like about it is that it's uh like she likes him most of the stories most of the like stories about even like male violence, for example, are always framed in this sort of black and white like, oh, well, just this man is a monster and everyone knows he's a monster or even he's a secret monster, but not. But like in a not realistic way, this feels like such a realistic. not realistic way this feels like such a realistic yeah like it's just so funny because it's it's about an alchemist and a magician we're both literally alchemists and magicians but it at the same time it's like more realistic of a relationship dynamic than like yeah almost anything i read i will say he does start showing his red flags early. It's true. Like different, different lines, like telling her to show him what she can really do. Worrying about religious folks seeing and worrying about what people think.

Yeah. I think he said something like, I liked the way the alcohol softened her. Yeah. Gross. That's like the creepiest line. No, there's creepier lines, but that's one of them. That's one of the top creepy lines. And then I wrote, I think I hate him?

Yeah, yeah. That's where it is. And then he like directly disrespects her in public and belittles that it calls her a perfumist instead of an alchemist. Oh, so I thought that was I think that was like him being clever, like doing a joke between that. I think that was like an inside joke between the two of them. I think it was. But I read it. I read it as negging.

I read it as like he does fake magic. She does real magic. So he's going to belittle her title. Yeah. No, no. I wouldn't put it past him. And like, yeah, I dislike him as soon as he's like, you even though this is such a real line and it's like a pretty good male written by non-male author moment yeah it's like oh i i accidentally hit her in the boob it's

the kind of boob i like yeah you know like big and droopy or round and droopy or something like that and it's just like i was gonna ask is there a we often see this split her into split her in half metaphor within literature and within, you know, just artsy media in general. Is there a bigger meaning behind that to you or did you take it more literally like he was doing a trick or was it that he was trying to morph her some way? I took it kind of literally. I think it's like, I mean, I think it's like a metaphor for like, I mean, when you do something intense with someone, it doesn't even have to be a metaphor for something sexual. Sometimes when you do something really intense with someone, you're going to like see inside them.

You're going to see them past the boundaries that they try to keep people away from. Right. them you're gonna see them past the boundaries that they try to keep people away from right and so he's looking inside of her and it's a this this clever way i think to be able to like frame he got to see what was really inside her he got to like see her completely like more than naked yeah you know he called her a good box girl and that made my skin crawl yeah and then like it's funny because upon rereading it the first the first section is afterwards like it's and so he's like now he's just doing magic tricks at um you know a kid's birthday party or whatever and he misses her and but he doesn't really he's like when am i gonna find my good i didn't catch that

that he got downgraded from big show to kids birthday party yeah that's so interesting yeah i just felt like this was you know super relatable to a lot of people's experience dating and having their boundaries disrespected and i felt like she and you know he says it at the end he said something like you should have told me how dangerous you are and then he was like you did and it's like first of all she has magical powers bro second of all you chose not to listen that was your choice you chose to disrespect your boundaries and you went too far and you'll regret that the rest of your life but yeah the only person you can be mad at here is yourself like it would be so such an interesting version of this story where she's like never mind and he's like okay

and they like almost do this really dangerous thing together. But she's like, nope, I'm good. I got to stop. And then they like go back to like, because that's like a, that's such a real relationship thing too, right? As you have those moments where you're like, oh, are we doing this thing? And you're like, yeah, we're doing this thing. And then you're like, wait, no. And both people are like, oh, did we go too far? But you actually talk about it and you don't do what this man did that. I don't know.

Anyway, this version of the story is clearly the better way to do it. But it's like it would be an interesting comparison to make, you know? Yeah, I mean, it could be the type of thing like going back to 500 Days of summer where you see the idealized version of the story versus what actually happened and uh having those two comparisons to look at like what could have been yeah yeah like what is the version that each of them will tell their grandkids happened you know i don't think she'll tell her grandkids anything happened i think she'll no and i don't think she'll tell her grandkids anything happened. I think she'll move on. No, and I don't think he'll ever have kids. I don't think he'll ever have kids, one. And two, I don't think he is a strong enough person to admit what actually happened here.

And so he would tell some ridiculous story that's not factually accurate in any way, shape, or form that makes him look better than he is. I think that as the years go by, it would become further and further divorced from reality. I think he would, you know, by the time there's kids and grandkids, he'd be like, oh, the love that got away from me because, you know, this one thing that she was told. Anyway, whatever. Well, what the author had to say about it, I asked Catherine Sparrow. She wrote, God, I love her. I know, it's so good.

Oh, Catherine. What a fantastic author you are. I know. It's so good. Oh, Catherine. What a fantastic author you are. Just amazing. I am really excited to read more by her. Yeah. And I asked for plugs, and she said, as far as plugs, the Faye Morgan Chronicles are some e-books available at Amazon, and they are about a modern-day Morgan Le Fay who is is a long lived anarchist witch fighting the power and grumpily saving the world so that might be up some people's

alleys who are listening to this that's so freaking cool yeah awesome I enjoyed this so much but yeah thanks for being guests on Cool Zone Media Book Club if people want to check out if you're listening to this on the It Could Happen Here feed,

I have another Cool Zone Media podcast called Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. And if you're listening to this on the Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff feed, there's another Cool Zone Media podcast called It Could Happen Here that is a daily look at all of the things happening in the world

that should or shouldn't be happening. That's y'all's official tagline, right? We're chronicling collapse as it happens. Yeah, that's a better way to put it, yeah. world that should or shouldn't be happening. That's y'all's official tagline, right? We're chronicling collapse as it happens. Yeah, that's a better way to put it. Yeah. All right. Well, see you all next week.

Bye. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. Hey, guys. I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a

chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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