It Could Happen Here - CZM Rewind: As If We Had Been Imprisoned: The Migrant Reception Center

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

In the fourth installment of his series on the Darién Gap, James talks to migrants at Lajas Blancas reception center north of the Darién, who can often be stuck there for months without the money to continue their journeys. Original Air Date: 10.31.24 Sources: https://www.notiparole.com https://www.instagram.com/p/DAaDkSwh1Jk/?igsh=bmgyanBteW10czd5 https://www.nytimes.com/1964/09/20/archives/a-new-canaldug-by-atom-bombs-nuclear-energy-is-the-key-to-replacing.html https://www.themanual.com/outdoors/darien-gap-feature/ https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2024/apr/18/panama-darien-gap-jose-raul-mulino https://americasquarterly.org/article/the-darien-gaps-fearsome-reputation-has-been-centuries-in-the-making/ https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/10/27/the-darien-gap-a-deadly-extension-of-the-us-border https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/supporting_resources/jmhs.pdf https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/20/snakes-swamps-whisky-british-explorers-went-ultimate-boys-adventure/ https://www.strausscenter.org/publications/asylum-processing-at-the-u-s-mexico-border-august-2024/ https://www.gob.mx/inm/prensa/el-gobierno-mexicano-y-el-inm-articulan-corredor-emergente-de-movilidad-segura-para-el-traslado-de-personas-extranjeras-con-cita-cbp-one https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-03-23/kidnapping-and-escape-of-95-ecuadorian-migrants-in-chiapas-if-you-continue-informing-we-will-return-them-in-bags.html https://humanrightsfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Asylum-Policies-Harm-Black-Asylum-Seekers-FACTSHEET-formatted.pdf https://respondcrisistranslation.org/en/newsb/cbp-ones-obscene-language-errors-create-more-barriers-for-asylum-seekers https://www.msf.org/lack-action-sees-sharp-rise-sexual-violence-people-transiting-darien-gap-panamaSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains? Is that the plot of Footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scoville,

and I'm here to tell you, Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product.

With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman's Cut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cuturban.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Whether it is getting swatted or just hateful messages online,

there is a lot of harm and even just reading the comments. That's cybersecurity expert Camille Stewart Gloucester on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Every season is a chance to grow. And the Therapy for Black Girls podcast is here to walk with you. I'm Dr. Joy Harden Bradford, and each week we dive into real conversations that help you move

with more clarity and confidence. This episode, we're breaking down what really happens to your information online and how to protect yourself with intention. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here. It's the season of giving, and this year, my podcast, The Happiness Lab, is partnering with Give Directly,

a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need as part of the PODS Fight Poverty campaign. Our goal this year is to raise $1 million, which will bring over 700 families out of extreme poverty. Your donation will put cash directly in the hands of these families in need, and they'll get to decide how to use it, whether that's school transportation, purchasing livestock, or starting a business. Plus, if you're a first-time donor,

your gift will be matched by giving multiplier, which means more money for those in need. Visit give directly.org slash happiness lab to learn more and to donate. That's givedirectly.org slash happiness lab. It's me, James, and before we listen to this episode today, I just did want to make you aware that I conducted these interviews in French and Spanish, mostly Spanish, and then transcribed and translated them. So what you're hearing is a translated interview that's been edited for brevity and content. I hope you enjoy the episode.

The general and the general and the head of the Army of the South, Emiliano Zapatas, manifesto Zapatista, Nahuas. To the people of Mexico, to the people and governments of the world. Some of our lives in the night, in her, we're going to be in it. But the light will recognize the audio that we open this show with,

for those who are the day, for all the light, for us all of us. Some of you recognize the audio that we opened this show with, and many of you weren't. It's a sample from the fourth declaration of the hand and jungle that Manu Chow used to open his shows with. It's a piece of music that's very emotive for me. Obviously, I'm a white leftist guy in my 30s who learned Spanish and decided

to live in Barcelona, so I have a story about running into Manu Chow once while he was busking. But that's not what I want to share today. Because I'm technologically challenged, I can't seem to get my phone to download songs, but I've managed to download the same Manu Chow playlist that I ripped off a rew writable CD when I was in high school and put it on the various headphones and Garmin watches that I've had over the last two decades or so. When I'm away for work, I like to run whenever I can. Obviously, I wasn't just going to go for a jog straight into the Darien Gap, but once we were out of Bajaquito, it gave me some time to run and think

and process the things that I've seen. And while I do that, I listen to the same dozen or so MP3 files. I was listening to this song one day after I got back from La Hasblancas, as I sweated my way up ahead in the rainforest, hoping to see a sloth. I didn't see a sloth, but it seemed like an appropriate soundtrack. Manichael himself is a child of Restu G's from Francoist Spain. He sings in French and Spanish, Wolof and Galician and Portuguese, among other languages, often several of them in the same song.

The product of growing up among other migrants of diverse backgrounds. I like the way he plays with language because it reminds me of the way I so often speak to my friends. Spanglish, for example, or frangley. It's the way people talk in border regions and refugees. camps. Languages that don't have the support of a state or the academy, but nonetheless convey so much meaning for so many people. That song, in particular, reminds me of my first time reading about Zapatismo in a tiny anarchist cafe in the West Midlands. I remember being struck as a kid from Europe who would frequently drive to France or Belgium to race bikes

and buy cheap beer, that the USA still maintained a fortified border with Mexico. People couldn't travel freely, but money could. With this realization, and the writings in particular of myante-Marcos, along with my talks in Spain to old anarchists, that encouraged me to learn Spanish, which I pursued by spending months in Spain and Venezuela, and learning thanks to the patients of the people around me. It was a new anarchism, which came from the periphery, not the neoliberal core, which gave me my first serious politics. I traveled to Venezuela to understand the revolution there. I did a PhD to try and understand the revolution in Spain. It's all very well understanding things, but I think it's much more important to do things.

and I tried to practice mutual aid as much as I can. Since I got back from the Dalian, I've loaded up a heavy backpack and carried water into the desert and spent hours trying to connect the friends I made in the jungle with services along the way. In the face of so much cruelty, it feels good to be doing something to help. And carrying the water is aware

I can make a material difference in a terrible situation. But in all my time reporting, I've really never felt as disempowered and helpless as I did in Las Blancas. Here, at the first official migrant reception centre after Adyenne, the Panamanian government registers migrants. NGOs offer a few services, and the US-funded process of deportation for migrants from Colombia, Cuba, Venezuela and India begins. Some of those sent to India might well be Nepalese, who often travel on fake Indian passports. This little cluster of cheap tents, shipping container offices, UN shelters, and barbed wire fences is where the rubber meets a road for the USASports.

and migration policy. And it's heartbreaking to witness. As migrants were called up to the security office to begin the deportation process, I tried to narrate the scene into my voice recorder. But I struggled, in part because their family members asked me questions, hoping I could help. But in larger part, this was also difficult

because I couldn't help, and I deeply wanted to. The best I could offer was an arm around someone's shoulder, and I promised to email anyone who I could think of and ask what was going on. This guy's just sobbing. Yeah, that's really tough. Some people's parents, some people's partners, some people's partners, some... I'll explain exactly what we'll explain exactly what we'll. was happening in a moment, but first I want to explain how I got here. On the day we left

Maraganti, we set off the same time as some migrants who were making their own journey to Las Blancas. Our Perrago was carrying only myself for my fixer daddy and our pira guero. So we're moving a lot faster than the boat's full of migrants. On the way north, we passed them. They smiled and waved as we rode by. Many of them had met me the day before. All of them were ecstatic to have survived the Dalian and be heading north. You know, it's a pretty busy stretch river. There's probably three or four pedaguas full of migrants. Hello!

There were kids shouting at me because I taught them some English words yesterday and they're shouting them back to me today, which is nice. We've got it. Family from Panama. They might be NGO people or something. They lived a little shocked at the whole scene. Here we are batting another Biragua now. They're all waving at me.

It's got to be uncomfortable. Pack that downstairs into Biragua. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 13, 14, 14, 15, 15, 15, 16 people, yeah. Once her boats arrive, they disembark in La Hasblancas. The next day I was there to meet them. We're just walking in to Las Blancas. It's hectic here. So it's a new shop here and outside the shop.

They've made like a line of outlets to charge people. It's a dollar an hour to charge your telephone. As we go in, there are a row of like kind of sheds which represent shops. And then further in every NGO has its own little kind of shed. They're all covered in tarps. They're like canvas and tarp. tents. I see here, I see UNICEF, I see

OIM, yeah, they have their sort of little tent office here, I guess. See, he has, for example, has root information, psychological support, safe space for women. Unicef has some workshops for children and then in the hours, I guess. Nice little chairs in there.

Yeah, yeah, for los Ninos. You can't take photographs in there, which is good. Yeah, and then it's just crowds of people coming out. Oh, and there's also a Mormon, a little Mormon situation. Yeah, I guess the OIM are supported by Church of Jesus Christ, not about those saints. Then the Red Cross has got a shipping container. I've been hoping last Blankas would be a better scene than Bajojikito,

with more organized sleeping arrangements and hopefully basic necessities like clean water, food and Wi-Fi provided by their numerous NGOs who work there. But if anything, it was worse than Baha Chiquito. In Bajikito, migrants were exhausted, but also ecstatic to be out the jungle. They knew they'd be moving forward the next day, and for a few bucks they could get anything they needed in the village. The locals told me that if kids didn't have the money to eat, they fed them for free. I didn't see this, but nobody seemed.

like they're having a very hard time in any of the days I visited the village, at least not for financial reasons. Migrants can get as far as Bajojikito on a few hundred dollars in their tenacity. They pay Colombian guides a few hundred bucks to bring them across the ocean from Necocli and to walk them from the border, and they paid Embara Piraguero's 25 bucks for the ride up the river. But once they get to La Has Blancas, for a good number of migrants, their journey grinds to a halt. Many of them told me they've been stuck in the camp for weeks or even months.

because they couldn't get that $60 that they needed to pay for their travel north. There's no Western Union in the camp, and the only way to transfer money is via a local intermediary, who charges between 20 and 25% of the sum being transferred as a fee. In the morning, migrants arrive on their pedaguas, just as we did. I jogged down a boat ramp when I saw them to help with their bags and ask about their journey. From there, they formed two lines, one for men and one for women and children.

They have their bag searched and their passport checked. They're given a welcome kit for the Red Cross with some basic necessities. Toilet paper, a toothbrush, some soap, stuff like that. Or some of them get a kid. When the kids ran out, it was long before the line of people did. By the time the men were finished, they were given little more than a shrug and good wishes by the Red Cross volunteers, and allowed to head off into the camp. Within the camp, there are a few rows of small casitas that are allocated to unaccompanied children and families.

They're little more than four walls and a roof, but they offer a bit of a bit of a bit of, bit of privacy. For most migrants, though, there isn't space, and they have to search for a spot of empty ground in the crowded camp where they can pitch the same tents they bought in Neckle-Klee. The Wi-Fi, which a Red Cross usually provides, wasn't working when I arrived, so I had to let people hotspot off my phone all day. At least the promised food really was free, but the migrants told me it was far from good. Still, this is supposed to be a temporary camp. People register here, get any medical attention they need, and then move forward to Costa Rica. That's a theory anyway.

In practice, if you can't get the 60 bucks, you need to move forward, or someone stole it from you in the jungle, or you were forced to walk to the camp because you shouldn't have the 25 bucks for the boat, and then someone robbed you, then you're stuck. We have been here a month. You have people who've been here a month and a half. I've been 27 days here. Well, I thank God, because we have three meals a day, we have water, but it still hurts the girls. The food and water always make me sick with diarrhea. It bothers me. I vomit and the heat is so desperate.

But we have to hold on because even though we don't have the resources, like we don't have enough to pay for a ticket, we have to hold on here a little longer. We don't have any family members that can give us support either. What's keeping the migrants here is money, or rather a lack of it. They need 60 bucks to leave. Buses used to take five free passengers per bus, but under Panama's new regime, it seems like they don't. Instead, migrants just gradually amass in growing number of tents that populate the grassy areas of La Hasblancas. They might try and do some informal work. I saw one guy who was cutting hair for a dollar a time, but I couldn't really get a satisfactory response to what they're expected to do if they don't have the money and can't get someone to do.

and the $75 they'd need to cover their travel costs and the 25% transfer fee. If you're short $10, they don't put you on the bus or anything. So things are terrible here. There should at least be support for migrants who at least come with few resources. They don't have money or anything. They can search your bags so they can see that you're not lying, that you don't have money, because nobody wants to be stuck here.

You have to move forward because nobody, wants to be stuck here in Panama. The idea is to move forward, to get further ahead. We brought our children to look for a future, not to be locked up here in Panama as if we've been imprisoned. The group even tried to leave on foot, hoping to begin walking north in search for a better future and a way to make money on their way.

But they were caught, they say, and returned to the camp. And they beat me hard. I gave myself up because they had caught her, a grandmother with my other daughter. I returned myself voluntarily, and they beat me up anyway. And from there, we lost the desire to walk back there. What can we do? Rights? They don't care about them.

We are human beings, but we don't have rights here in Panama. If they do have the money, migrants could take a bus to the Costa Rican border. When the bus is first arrived, I tried to describe the scene as migrants rushed to buy food, not only for this journey, but also for the journey through Costa Rica, where food and other basics are much more expensive. I'm just here in Laha Blancas, when the first buses have arrived.

It's about noon. The first bus is going to be full of people who had been waiting in line for hours already. So they're kind of lining up by the bus. And then the next bus is people seem to be kind of rushing to get to them. They're rushing to buy food. I can just see this guy has an entire carrier bag full of pink wafer biscuits and Coke bottles. that's going to be his food for the next 11 hours I guess

other guys will see it with bags of bread rolls and stuff and they're the first people are getting on the bus now These buses aren't entirely safe In 2023, 42 people died in a bus crash This year, 17 were injured in a crash in August Now, migration officers ride in each bus with the migrants to check on safety protocols And make sure they don't get off anywhere else in the country

Just like everywhere else on their journey people make money off the migrants. In Lars Blancas, a bus costs $60 a head and has 55 passages, $3,300 a bus, more than a dozen buses leave every day. Even half of the thousand or so people who arrived used a transfer service to get their bus fare, that's $7,500 in transfer fees alone. Of course, not everyone in the community is making thousands of dollars off the migrants. I interviewed a local shopkeeper who still sits just outside the camp gates, and I asked him to explain his stock.

which included the oddly popular I back the blue thin blue line t-shirt so I'd seen several people cross the Dalyan Gapin. I asked him what was the most common shopping list for migrants. Yes, almost all of them come in by sets for $10, $15, $20. It depends. are many who don't have them. I have children's sets for $5. I have sets for $5 that are pants and sweaters, which is what they're looking for the most, those that are socks without underwear,

backpacks for $15 because the backpack is so worn out and they need it so much that it carries their belongings. Look, it's not really everyone who can buy. There are certain people who buy, of course, if everyone bought, but there are very few who can buy something to leave here. Almost 70% leave dirty because they don't have anywhere to get money. And the little can get often comes from selling their phones, their watch, a cap, or their sneakers to be able to get money to pay for their fare to keep going. I asked him how the migration had impacted the community. Were people making a lot of money, I asked.

Were they mad about the trash and the pollution of the river? These are legitimate concerns, even if they're used in bad faith against some migrants. Nobody is perfect, but I can tell you one thing. Honestly, the migrants suffer a lot to be able to carry out this journey. and there are many times when I've even had to give them clothes some because they don't have any and well when a father and family with children comes what can I say look I have a family I have to do this yeah

I ask him what he felt the solution was to the suffering here the damage done both to people and planet I say that oppressing people so that they don't go through the dairy and is not the solution because if you put it to the point even if they don't know an exact percentage the immigrant gives the economy of the United States a balance. Because the people born there, not to criticize them, people born there want a stable job.

And he doesn't want to feel like he's very, very low. However, the immigrant is there, and he's picking fruit, going to the fruit trees, going to the vegetable fields, going to the garbage dumps, going, picking up things that many Americans who live there don't do, of course. And so they need them to say that they don't go. They need the support of the immigrant to be able to have the balance that they have today.

Like a lot of Panamanians I met, he was broadly in solidarity with the migrants. I didn't really encounter anti-migrant sentiment at all in my time in Panama. In the capital city, which locals just call Panama, but we can call Panama City, migrants are not really physically present, nor are they present in conversation. I found the transition for the jungle and the refugee camps, back to the bustling city, pretty challenging in a lot of ways. I find I'm oddly comfortable amidst the chaos and trauma of a reality. refugee camp. It's a familiar environment for me and I know how to conduct myself. I feel safe

with the migrants and I tend to find them very open and welcoming to me. I can talk to anyone and they can talk to me. I bring toys for children and try to bring resources for adults and sometimes I bring my harmonica by being really cliche. In a weird way, refugee camps are a little safe space for me and even though I know it's bad, I can console myself that I'm helping a little, or at least giving people some hope and some information. That could make me feel a bit better. But in the city, I found it hard knowing that people were in a terrible situation and that nobody here seemed to care. I went for a run in the jungle near the city, trying to get some perspective and clear my head. But I just ended up screaming an inconsiderate driver. I was angry at them for nearly hitting me,

but I was just angry at everyone all over the US and even here in Panama City for their indifference at so much human suffering. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you?

From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and, Big Money Players comes Crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoville, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing

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Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap, if you think, she's a witch. And it freaks.

you out. He has x-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow me. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimeless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stefan Curry,

and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman'scuttuburn.com. or your nearest total wines or Bevmo.

This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gendelmanscut bourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Hi, Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here. It's the season of giving, which is why my podcast is partnering with Give Directly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need.

This year, we're taking part in the Pods Fight Poverty campaign. And it's not just the happiness lab. Some of my favorite podcasters are also taking part. Think Jay Shetty from On Purpose, Dan Harris from 10% Happier, and Dave Desteno from How God Works, and more. Our goal this year is to raise $1 million, which will help over 700 families in Rwanda living in extreme poverty. Here's how it works.

You donate to give directly, and they put that cash directly into the hands of families in need, because those families know best what they need, whether it's buying livestock to fertilize their farm, paying school fees, or starting a small business. With that support, families can invest in their future and build lasting change. So join me and your favorite podcasters in the PODS Fight Poverty campaign. Head to give directly.org slash happiness lab to learn more and make a contribution. And if you're a first-time donor, giving multiplier will even match your gift.

That's give directly.org slash happiness lab to donate. Michael Lewis here. My book The Big Short tells the story of the build-up and burst of the U.S. housing market back in 2008. It follows a few unlikely, but lucky people who saw the real estate market for the black hole it would become and eventually made billions of dollars from that perception. It was like feeding the monster, said Eisman. We fed the monster until it blew up. The monster was exploding.

Yet on the streets of Manhattan, there was no sign anything important had just. just happened. Now, 15 years after the Big Short's original release, and a decade after it became an Academy Award-winning movie, I've recorded an audiobook edition for the very first time. The Big Short Story, what it means when people start betting against the market, and who really pays for an unchecked financial system, is as relevant today as it's ever been, offering invaluable insight into the current economy and also today's politics. Get the Big Short now at Pushkin www.fm slash audiobooks, or wherever audiobooks are sold. The L'Averto González Mesa, present to the

Sala de Guarria. Hadratero Rosale Mesa. The lack of concern about migrants in Panama City made what I saw next at Lajas Blancas even more surprising. An announcement of the loudspeakers called several Colombian passport holders to the migration office. At first, it seemed like they were just going to little wooden shed with a couple of Senefront officers in it

to return their documents. I'd already noticed that some migrants and seemingly most of the African migrants were being called to a different shed to do biometric scans. I wondered if this was part of the same process. But shortly thereafter, a truck rolled up and several of the Colombians

were loaded in. Apparently neither they nor their partners knew what was going on. They're taking some of the Colombian guys away to deport them. You can hear a little kid crying for his dad. You've got with them? They're taking his brother and his brother's wife. Taken some of the lady's husband, some little kid's dad. They're making them sit on the floor.

I don't know why. Yeah, I don't know what they're going to do now. She's trying to give her husband the money and a SIM card so he can call her. Are you going to go get some more food? Other migrants approached me to ask if I knew, which I didn't. But one lady who'd been there for weeks told me the people who leave this way never come back. And that they end up being deported. So we assumed that's what was happening.

Yeah, this really sucks now. They're taking the deportation bus. There's men crying because their wives are on there, women crying because their husbands are on there. Kids are crying because their parents are on there. And they've just done this crossing, and now they're going to send them back. By the time I got back to the city, I was getting texts from migrants with furtodes of them in handcuffs. More and more of them were being deported, particularly the Colombians. One of them, texted me after being returned to Columbia on a flight, gave the following account of detention.

They treated us very badly, verbally and psychologically. We all had to do our business in the same cell, and they threw food on the floor for us to eat as we were all in handcuffs. They told us that a Venezuelan had burned down the migrant detention center in San Vincente and that we would all pay for it, and that the Colombians didn't need to leave the country because the president there said it was doing well, and there's plenty of work. None of that is true. The migrant facility in San Vicente was burned down, and the people working there told me it was a Venezuelan migrant who did that. But in order that excuses any of this,

we weren't able to access that facility as the people who are detained there can't really consent meaningfully to an interview. That's a fair enough objection. But the migrant who was deported also alleged that they received no hearings or a chance to appeal their deportation. Instead, they were detained for eight days, spent their last US dollars, and were then kicked out of the country. They were not detained or arrested upon reaching Colombia,

which makes it a little more difficult for me to believe the claim that only people with outstanding warrants in Colombia were being deported. These weren't the only allegations of mistreatment I heard. Migrants came to me and whispered about the abuse of black migrants, who were forced to walk to La Has Blancos because they couldn't afford the boat ride. I should note that it wasn't the migrants who had been robbed or abused that came to me. It was other migrants. It was a group of guys had given a water filter to while they were leaving to walk from La Hasblancas.

I hadn't been able to join them. But when they got there, we ran into each other again. And they came up to me to share their concerns for the black men who had walked with them. In one instance, one migrant told me he was robbed by what he called, quote, police dressed as thieves. The deportations, which seemed to be increasingly commonplace, are being funded by US taxpayer dollars. The same day that Molino took office in July, Homeland Security Secretary, Alejandro Mayorkas, himself the child of migrants, visited Panama. Panama's a relatively young country and one which the U.S. occupied part of for much of the last century. But despite a real

struggle for independence, the Panamanian government didn't seem concerned that the U.S. Secretary of Homeland Security was present at the inauguration of a president in a country decidedly not the U.S. homeland. The official DHS readout of his trip notes that the U.S. has enjoyed a flourishing strategic relationship with Panama for over 100 years, which is certainly one way to sum up decades of occupation, violence, and profit from the Panama Canal. And one of the more brutal dictatorships in the long list of authoritarian regimes that the U.S. preferred to communist or even socialist governments in the Western Hemisphere. They also announced that the U.S. government would, quote,

help the Panamanian government to remove foreign nationals who do not have a legal basis to remain in Panama. Obviously, I should take this moment to note that under the United States, Nations Refugee Convention, refugees do have a legal right to travel through a country on route to another. Here's Erica describing that right. The refugee convention is complex and does afford a lot of rights to people who have fled their countries based on persecution. You know, you're supposed to be able to pass through whichever country you want, go to whichever country you want, not be criminally prosecuted for crossing the border between ports of entry and not be turned back to a country where you face

harm. The U.S. allocated $6 million for a six-month pilot program. of repatriations. If the program meets the USA's goals, they might consider expanding it to other countries along the migrant route, according to reporting in Reuters. As of early October, they've deported 530 people to Colombia. That's half of the people I saw arriving in a single day in Baho-Chiquito. Because Panama's government and Venezuela's government have ceased relations after the election, Panama is now struggling to deport Venezuela and is actually searching for a third country into which to deport them. But But even if the program resulted in one plane-loaded day, which it hasn't yet, that would be

roughly 10% of the total dalyan traffic, and far fewer planes are traveling. What it will do, like so many other DHS policies, is playing to the hands of smugglers. Already new ocean routes are being used, which see migrants, many of whom cannot swim, taking long journeys around Panama on ill-equip boats. This doesn't help anyone, apart from the DHS contractors and staff equipping and training Panamanian personnel, and the human traffickers, making more and more money from migration. I asked a shopkeeper his opinion on this. Look, I'll tell you, I think that instead of giving them a reward for deportation, they should

give them support, a lot of support, because it is a huge sacrifice to leave your country where you were born, your children, your family, leave it to be able to have a future, and you go with your mentality that your future is the United States. that will give you an opportunity to get ahead and give well-being to your children. Now, 10% of those who go are going to destroy the good name of the migrants, but what 90% of people really want to do is help their family. And this balance unbalances everything that is being done by good people because there are many good people who want to get ahead.

And I think that the United States should support, give support to people who really want to fight and move forward, as I just told you. They give a lot of benefit. They contribute to the country. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know?

What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players comes Crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoville, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws.

Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap, if you think, she's a witch. And it freaks you out. He has x-ray vision. How could I not follow it?

Honestly, I got to follow me. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman's Cut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older.

Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gendelmanscuturban.com. Please enjoy responsibly. Hi, Dr. Laurie Santos from the Happiness Lab here. It's the season of giving, which is why my podcast is partnering with Give Directly, a non-profit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need. This year, we're taking part in the Pods Fight Poverty campaign.

And it's not just the Happiness Lab. Some of my favorite podcasters are also taking part. Think Jay Shetty from On Purpose, Dan Harris from 10% Happier, and Dave Desteno from How God Works, and more. Our goal this year is to raise $1 million, which will help over 700 families in Rwanda living in extreme poverty. Here's how it works. You donate to give directly, and they put that cash directly into the hands of families in need, because those families know best what they need, whether it's buying livestock to fertilize their farm, paying school fees or starting a small business. With that support, families can invest in their future and build lasting change.

So join me and your favorite podcasters in the Pods Fight Poverty campaign. Head to give directly.org slash happiness lab to learn more and make a contribution. And if you're a first-time donor, giving multiplier will even match your gift. That's give directly.org slash happiness lab to donate. Welcome to Decoding Women's Health. I'm Dr. Elizabeth Pointer, chair of women's health and gynecology at the Adria Health Institute in New York City. On this show, I'll be talking to top researchers and top clinicians, asking them your burning questions and bringing that information about women's health and midlife directly to you. A hundred percent of women go through menopause.

It can be such a struggle for our quality of life, but even if it's natural, why should we suffer through it? The types of symptoms that people talk about is forgetting everything. I never used to forget things. They're concerned that, one, they have dementia, and the other one is, do I have ADHD? There is unprecedented promise with regard to cannabis and cannabinoids, to sleep better, to have less pain, to have better mood, and also to have better day-to-day life.

Listen to Decoding Women's Health with Dr. Elizabeth Pointer on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening now. After leaving Las Blancas, I felt pretty down about the fact that people were just hitting a wall that they couldn't overcome. Since then, I've stayed in touch with as many of them. For some, a friend or family member was able to send the money, and they made it to Costa Rica on the bus. From there, they crossed quickly into Nicaragua and Guatemala, before arriving in a Mexican border city of Tapachula, in the state of Chiapas, and ironically not so very far from whether

Zapatistas made their revolution 30 years ago. Once they cross the southern border of Mexico, migrants can begin their application for asylum using the CVP-1 app, though we've talked about so much on this show before. They can use it in Tabasco and Chiapas, the southern border states, and then once again, when they're north of Mexico City. To recap very briefly, the app is terrible in almost every way, including its inability to recognize black faces, its limited functionality

on Android phones, which had a vast majority of devices used by migrants. It's constant crashing and an eight to nine month wait time for asylum appointments. Here's Erica explaining some of those problems. You have to have a relatively new smartphone. You have to have an address. All the people you're traveling with have to be with you, Right. And you have to first get through the initial kind of registration phase, which doesn't always work. The program is very glitchy. You have to take a live photo and you have to wait essentially. So, you know, it's kind of random too. Some people will get an appointment within three months. But I would say most people are waiting nine to 12 at this point. You don't have any legal status in Mexico while you're waiting unless you can apply for some other status in Mexico independently.

Not only is yet very poorly designed. It's also a de facto metering system on asylum. Here's Erica explaining that. We've been litigating against the use of CBP1 for a few years now. My organization Al-Otrellavo and Haitian Bridge Alliance. And the reason why we are fighting against the required use of CBP1 is first because it is an illegal metering system. So we've already litigated the fact that there is no number limit

on the amount of individuals who can seek asylum at the U.S.-Mexico border, and Customs and Border Protection legally does not have the right to turn people away. And CBP-1 essentially allows them to do that. There were physical metering lists at ports of entry before CBP-1 was implemented as essentially the only way to access the U.S. asylum system at ports of entry, and now it's a digital metering list, and it's very limited. Recently, the Department of Homeland Security lost a court case which forced them to release records. In there, with some of the app logs and data regarding CBP1,

I'm still in the phase of coming through that, asking my friends who know more about technologies than I do, to explain exactly what the limitations with the app are. But it doesn't really matter. DHS is well aware of the app's flaws, and it doesn't really seem to see them as flaws at all. The goal of the app is to make it harder for people, even those with very legitimate asylum claims to obtain asylum in the USA. As we heard yesterday, the CHNV program is no better. I recently read a Reddit thread of applicants who've been waiting nearly two years.

What I didn't mention yesterday is a parallel program for another group of migrants, which I'll let Erica explain. I want to mention the fact that there is a cap, right? I think it's $30,000 a month or something like that for those four countries. But it's almost identical to the Ukrainian, United for Ukraine program, which doesn't have a cap, right? So there's no limit to how many Ukrainians can get the same benefit. And they are renewing the humanitarian parole for Ukrainians, which I believe was just announced almost within weeks of them announcing that they're not renewing for the other four countries. So it's really

a very stark demonstration of how the U.S. immigration system, even when it's a relatively neater of benefit, is based on race, is based on which country you're from. What this is means is that in practice, the migrants I spoke to face a long and dangerous way to Mexico, while others skip ahead. I've got nothing against the Ukrainians, and I don't think many of them do either. I tried to go to Ukraine and report, but the visas ended up taking so long that I missed the flights that I'd booked. I have, however, a serious problem with the Biden administration, which left people who fought alongside its own US troops to die in Afghanistan, and turned away migrants from all over the world, but then opened its arms to a country that just happens to

have the majority of its citizens be the same race as the president. It's cruel, and it's wrong, and it's barely ever even mentioned in national media coverage. For those not fortunate enough to be Ukrainian, here's what waiting in Mexico looks like. The incidents of crime directed at migrants is horrifyingly high. We had done an electronic survey a few years ago, and this was during Title 42 when people were just being expelled to Mexico. And if I remember correctly, it was like around 25 to 30 percent of people had been either raped, sex traffic, assaulted, kidnapped. I mean, the list goes on and on. We've seen a lot of people lose their lives just due to violence. And the kidnapping rates are through the roof. Almost everyone you've heard from in this series is now

stuck in Mexico. Some of them have been kidnapped, paid ransom to released. Some of them have been sexually assaulted. Many of them have been robbed. Some of them have, after surviving one of the most deadly land migration routes on Earth, been killed while waiting in Mexico for an app to stop crashing on their phones. Over the week since I got home, I've seen them go gradually more desperate and afraid. Just to get to Mexico, many of them have spent several thousand dollars. Once they are in Tapachula, they're faced with the astronomical cost for the trip north, often several thousand dollars more, and many of them, their phones are exhausted, have slept on the streets.

Those who didn't speak Spanish struggled to find refuge. Those who did wanted to move quickly north, but struggled to find the money. Here are the Iranian migrants you heard earlier in the series, explaining what they'd already heard about CBP1. It's so tough because some policemen in their way, they took our money that we came from Iran. It was so difficult for us. And resume the way. so Mexico Mexico is so difficult for us and something is C.B.P.1 is not working for us for

Iranian people. I know the people who are in Mexico City for about three months, for three months. Yeah, CBP1 is terrible. Because of that, Iranian people go to the wall and across it. It's not our choice. We have to do this. We don't want them, but we have to do this. Yeah, it's good to explain. According to a study conducted at University of Texas, wait times are as high as eight or nine months on average now. Mexico announced on the 31st of August

that it will provide security and food for migrants who have an appointment to travel north from the south of the country to the place where they have a CBP1 appointment. Migrants absolutely have been robbed or kidnapped on their way to their appointment and missed it as a result. But they're just as vulnerable in the eight or nine months that they have to wait for one. Migrants and Tapachula are at a very high risk for kidnapping

and are often held until their families pay ransoms. But without money or an appointment, they have little means of leaving the city. Some choose to travel a little further north and then hop on a freight train known as La Bastia, the Beast, an extraordinarily risky endeavor that several of the people I spoke to for this series have undertaken. The only place to ride on these trains is on top of carriages,

exposing migrants to freezing temperatures in the desert night. Even on the train, they're not safe from kidnapping. Like many migrants, the Iranian group were well informed about domestic politics in the US, and they said that when they made their journey north, they wanted to be sure to avoid the states where local law enforcement was likely to turn them over for deportation. In reality, that could be any of the states,

but they're probably right that their life would be a little easier on the West Coast. I heard it's so difficult, and about three months, four months, more than seven months, they will arrest us in the US. I heard in Mississippi, in Texas, in the middle of the country. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think just the California is a little, little, little bit. Yeah. Especially our money is very, excuse me, shit money in the world,

and we have to pay a lot of money for this way because our one, yeah, it's like one dollar, one dollar is 60,000 human. Some, of course, will choose to cross the border between ports of entry as they become desperate to see their families or afraid of remaining in Mexico. Since President Biden's executive order earlier this summer, doing this can result in expedited removal proceedings. And effectively, Biden's new ruling denies asylum by default to anyone crossing the border when daily crossings surpassed 2,500. In fact, this is a continuation of

extremely punitive and cruel politics that have been in place since he was. was finally forced to stop using Title 42, which if you're not aware, is a public health law used by the Trump administration and embraced by the Biden administration as an asylum law. It has already resulted in the deportations of people back to places where they have extremely credible fears of harm, and created a system whereby migrants have no idea how they will be treated on any given day. Again, it's painted the hands of anyone seeking to smuggle migrants into the country undetected, while also harming innocent people coming to this country to ask for protection. Here's Erica's short history of Biden's asylum policy since last year.

So when the Biden administration lifted Title 42, they essentially imposed what I call a transit ban. So there's a couple of components to it. One is if you do not enter the United States at a port of entry with a CBP one appointment, you are presumed ineligible for asylum unless you fall under a few narrow exceptions, which are not consistently. applied. So the exceptions are things like you were having a medical emergency, you were running for your life, you know, you couldn't access the app for some reason. But in practice, those exceptions are almost never applied at ports. There's been a few kind of alternative programs run by shelters or local governments where people with extreme medical vulnerabilities, for example,

can be led in without an appointment, but we don't know whether the ban a plan of applies to them once they enter without that appointment, right? So it's, like I said, inconsistently applied exceptions. If you enter between a port of entry, you're presumed and eligible for asylum, again, unless you meet some narrow exceptions. And what that means is you can still apply for other types of protection in the United States. So there's two principal types of protection. One is called withholding of removal, which is like asylum, but with a higher standard. And then the other is convention against torture, which You just have to prove it's more likely than not that your own government will torture you,

which is more extreme than persecution, but isn't necessarily based on a protected ground. So the torture could be for any reason. But it's a high hurdle. But the most important thing is those two types of protection are not a path to citizenship, and they do not allow you to petition for your family. So, for example, if you get asylum in the U.S., and then you want to ask for your wife and children to join you, there is an avenue for that. and all of you can eventually become citizens

with withholding of removal and prevention against torture you basically get a work permit if conditions in your country change they can deport you and you can never leave the United States and you can never reunify with your family and you could never become a citizen.

This won't deter people. I speak to people every day who cross to daddy in were kidnapped, robbed and sometimes raped on their way here. They're going through all of that because we refuse to give people a dignified or safe way. to come here. They know it's a risk and they continue to come because they think it's the only option. Here's powers from Cameroon explaining that. It's deadly. I won't lie to you. It's 50, 50 life and dead. Honestly speaking. But we had to take the risks because I think that was the only

awesome that we had. If you can't imagine taking those risks, it's likely because you can't imagine the things these people are leaving behind either. As a conflict reporter, I've been able to see a small amount of what they're fleeing. War, death, poverty, state violence. I don't know if I'd be brave or strong enough to do the same, but I have a lot of respect for people who can. Tomorrow, we're going to talk about the people who help them along the way and what you can do to support them when the state worked. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

You can now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains? Is that the plot of Footloos? I'm comedian Rory Scoville, and I'm here to tell you, Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminal. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman'scut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com.

Please enjoy responsibly. Whether it is getting swatted or just hateful messages online, there is a lot of harm and even just reading the comments. That's cybersecurity expert Camille Stewart Gloucester on the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Every season is a chance to grow. And the Therapy for Black Girls podcast is here to walk with you. I'm Dr. Joy Harden-Brandford, and each week we dive into real conversations that help you move with more clarity and confidence.

This episode, we're breaking down what really happens to your information online and how to protect yourself with intention. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Dr. Laurie Santos from The Happiness Lab here. It's the season of giving, and this year my podcast, The Happiness Lab, is partnering with Give Directly, a nonprofit that provides people in extreme poverty with the cash they need as part of the Pods Fight Poverty campaign. Our goal this year is to raise $1 million, which will bring over 700 families out of extreme poverty. Your donation will put cash directly in the hands of these families in need, and they'll get to decide how to use it, whether that's school transportation,

purchasing livestock, or starting a business. Plus, if you're a first-time donor, your gift will be matched by giving multiplier, which means more money for those in need. Visit give directly.org slash happiness lab to learn more and to donate. That's give directly.org slash happiness lab. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.