It Could Happen Here - CZM Rewind: Myanmar: Printing the Revolution. Part 4

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

James chose to return to the end of the first series he and Robert made about Myanmar. This episode profiles some of the young men and women of the PDF.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You should probably keep your lights on for

Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of riot. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. search. Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech, brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. Hello, everyone. It's me, James. And if you're hearing this, it's because I am on holiday,

along with all my colleagues. But in order to help you as you wander lonely as a cloud through the contentless abyss of our one week of holiday, we are re-releasing some episodes of the show that we like and that you may also like. Avid listeners will have probably listened to them before, but I picked one from a little while ago, March of 2022. So it's one you can revisit and hopefully enjoy it's the culmination of our first series on Myanmar called Printing the Revolution and I like this one because it was the first thing I did for It Could Happen Here and I was really happy to have a home for this story because I've been pitching it for months and just getting a fuck all response from editors because they have no reason to care about Myanmar because there's no money in it for global capital.

And therefore, it seems like people in the US don't care to include all your nominally leftist publications. And so I was really happy to have a home for this story. And obviously, it's not one with a particularly happy ending um i won't spoil it i guess but yes yes rough one um and that is something that like i still think about and it still upsets me and it's also i think a perspective on the reality of conflict coverage it doesn't get shared enough i mean for 20 years this country has been at war and the media has for a large part participated in the sort of propaganda that makes conflict seem other than what is, which is the worst thing that humans do to each other. And the good guys don't always win

and sometimes the good guys die. And whilst that's something that I wish didn't happen, die and um whilst that's something that i wish didn't happen it does and i'm happy that we were able to in that moment uh which was a very sad roman difficult moment for both robert myself especially myself i think because i'd spent quite a long time before i even met robert um talking to zor and working on this story um we were able to share that with you and share the realities of like, we're not kind of unfeeling automatons either. Like this shit is difficult for us and it affects us. And I know a lot of people felt that it affected them as well. And this episode struck a chord with a lot of people.

So yeah, I hope that you enjoy it. I'm Robert Evans, and this is part four of Myanmar, printing the revolution. And then once we got there, we couldn't rest, you know, rain, sun, whatever. Women as well, we were all like dry. When they came, when we were leaving, they were all like very fair skin, beautiful. And then we went in and then everyone got tanned in the jungle. We were training all the time. You know, people in training camp were driven really hard.

And the reason that we were all doing this is because of Minnanai's coup as students and how much he has terrorized the public and the people. And that's why we have this morale and ability to get through the training and be able to wield weapons. Zohar and his friends went into the jungle as students, programmers and kids. Now they're fighters. They were tech-savvy young people, he says. They grew up online. And that generational divide which the internet brought here came much

later in Myanmar. It wasn't until 2011 that people really gained access to the internet. And with it, the new ideas and identities that it brought. Seoul's generation are among the first to embrace global connectivity. And now, after having it taken away, they're refusing to give it up. And now, after having it taken away, they're refusing to give it up. The start of the coup in February, the military, well, Gen Z was organizing online, social media and all that. So, and they were kind of, I think this is from my experience, but kind of organizing around like Gen Z is going to be different than the 88 generation because we have the internet and also we know more about the world and can communicate to the rest of the world. I think one thing that was big was that in 2008, it just took one video leaking out of the country

for there to be big international repercussions. It's worth noting that when people in Burma talk about the internet, they mean Facebook. Phones come with the Facebook app installed, and it's sometimes exempt from data charges. For many people in Burma, using the internet means using Facebook. Zohr and his friends are different from their parents in many ways, not least in their perceptions of authority. This has led to a situation where the PDF, People's Defense Force units, are much less hierarchical than units of the Tatmadaw. So when we make decisions in our group, there's no master and student, there's no teacher and student, but you know, the way that it works, there are people who are good, there are older people who are more trained, and then there are new recruits, new people who are good there are older people who are more trained and then there are new recruits new people who just came in

so of course the people who are there for longer and know more about the situation have more voice when we discuss so especially people who were there when we founded this group there were only really 8 people when we grouped so those 8 people

kind of discussed on the bigger strategy. You know, we don't really vote. He says he wants to do it. He thinks it's good. There's the seven of us. We think it's good or we support him. Or someone says, well, we don't really like that idea. Then we don't do it

they try to achieve more gender equality as well although zora explained that in his unit the women are not always the front line fighters at the place there's no discrimination you know women can women and men were training whoever could come but like on the battlefield people we don't use women that much on the battlefield. That's one thing that we do know is that it's not really discrimination, but if women are with us together, we have a confusion about whether we need to protect them or we're just fighting with with them or they're fighting in front of us and that there's one thing that is very different and it was that in terms of mentality We we can't we never take the women out really far into very dangerous fights

So often they're in the back as backup or to supplies or things like that. But as you know, the military government, the military terrorists are very, very unethical. They don't follow the rules. So they're going to shoot whoever they see. So even if they're hanging back and they're sending medical supplies, they can still get hit.

For Zora in particular, there's a lot at stake. After almost an hour and a half of talking, I asked about his parents. I'd heard of retribution attacks against the families of fighters and wondered if he was worried about that. So mom and dad are both, they support me fighting against the military. They're very happy is that really wants to do cdm but he can't run away because the military has taken his uh mother and his sisters he still has five sisters yeah they're all still in the military command. They're in the military schools. So it's very hard for them to run away.

Right, his dad got defected. So he really wants to leave the military, but he can't. So the fact that I am there trying to fight against the military. He's very happy. And, but he tells me to be careful about my own life. They're supportive and they really want to come fight themselves, but they can't because of my sisters and my mother. So him seeing that I can do it, it's really wonderful for them. So his father,

his other brother and other people, three of them below him, they've all usually just lived together with his grandfather and stuff in the military compounds or near the military. So he really wants to call all the people that are still there, but they can't leave. This is what civil war does. It traps us in a situation where we can't make the right choice, even when we know what it is. And in many situations, it's pretty hard to discern right from wrong in the midst of so much violence. Zor has been able to fight, but his dad is stuck fighting against people like his son in order to protect his daughters. Thousands of families across the country are divided in the same way, by circumstance or ideology.

The military is something of a separate society. It has its own schools and its own culture. But ethnic armed organisations have not been close to urban populations either, and so whole new identities have been forged by Generation Z, while their families often struggle to abandon old certainties. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into

their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real inspiring stories from the people, you know, follow and admire join me every week for post run high. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora.

An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. rushes with supernatural creatures. I know it. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network,

available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again. The podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators,

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As we record this, Zaw is still fighting. His girlfriend is still healing. Every few weeks, a video of him and his friends pops up on Reddit or Facebook. They have optics on their rifles now and are taking long-range shots at the Tatmadaw, who rely on iron sights. They shoot and reload like soldiers, and they laugh like kids. The Tatmadaw still controls the cities, but to move between them they have to travel in convoys at breakneck speeds. Using ambushes, mines, and knowledge of the terrain, EAOs and the PDF are able to deny the military access to large portions of the countryside. Without a serious change in the conflict, it might stay like this for years.

A report published this month detailed the attacks in the Karini state by the Tatmadaw on churches, residential homes, camps for displaced people, which killed 61 in the month since Zaw left the city. On Christmas Eve, in Hupruso's township, they killed at least 40 civilians. Autopsies show some were gagged and burned alive. In recent months, the Tatmadaw has increased its use of airstrikes against targets that it deems legitimate. Ming-An Hlang, the junta's leader, flew to Russia twice in 2021. He was proclaimed an honorary professor of the Military University of the Russian Armed Forces.

Quote, We are determined to continue our efforts to strengthen bilateral ties based on the mutual understanding, respect, and trust that have been established between our two countries, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said at a meeting with the coup leader on June 22nd. We pay special attention to this meeting as we see Myanmar as a time-tested strategic partner and a reliable ally in Southeast Asia and the Asia-Pacific region, he went on. Min Aung Hlaing was equally lavish with his praise, saying that he saw Russia as a friend forever. Myanmar relies heavily on Russian Hind Mi-35 helicopter gunships, transport helicopters, MiG-29 and Su-30 fighter jets,

and Yak-130 ground attack aircraft to carry out bombing raids and strafe civilians. All of these weapons systems have been seen more recently in the fighting in Ukraine. One prominent Burmese-Irish family, the Kiatongs, has helped the junta avoid an international arms embargo using their global connections and a network of shady shadow companies. They have purchased helicopters under the pretense of using them for tourism and the oil and gas industry, and handed them over to the Tatmadaw. They've also helped shuttle coastal radar to Myanmar, which the Tatmadaw use to track Rohingya refugees

and provide cover for several aircraft purchases. To fund these arms purchases, the Tatmadaw has found willing markets for luxury goods abroad. According to Justice for Myanmar, since the coup in February 2021, the United States has imported 1,565 metric tons of teak from Myanmar, using intermediaries to avoid sanctions. In the 2017-2018 financial year, the last year for which data is available, the government received $100 million in revenue from taxes and royalties applied to the timber trade. In 2021, there were more

shipments than 2018, offering the Tatmadaw the chance to make enough money to continue purchasing weapons to use against their population. The conflict in Myanmar remains complicated. It's easy to reduce the alphabet soup of rebel groups to EAOs in the PDF, but these groups and their motivations are diverse. Pierre explained to us that even within the Karen, there are deep divisions. Well, first you have to know Christian minority of the Karen people. Because obviously that was the most Western educated people at the time. And so this elite kind of reproduced itself in the Kainu without being... The Kainu is the current National Union and the current National

Liberation Army was Christian. And so the Burmese junta, the Burmese military government, decided to use this to create a wedge between the current Christians and the current Buddhists and sent monks to say

agitate and try to cause this split on religious grounds. And they succeeded in part and try to cause this split on religious grounds. And they succeeded in parts, and succeeded to separate a part of Karen Buddhist that created the Democratic Karen Buddhist Army, DKBA, which then allied themselves, of course, to the Junta and to attack the KNA and the Manor Plo, which of course they knew all the roads there and the differences and where was the

differences situated, etc. and succeeded in destroying the capital of the Karen National Union in Manoklo in 95. So that was the situation pretty much when I arrived. It was pretty hard, like there was not so much territory anymore held by the Karen. And more importantly, they lost a lot of income because a lot of their income comes from tax at the border that they can control. So yeah, that was the situation.

Not every EAO has embraced the National Unity Government directly. After all, many of its members were enthusiastically running cover for the Rohingya genocide a few years ago. Many of the EAOs remain, technically under a ceasefire with the Tatmadaw. And the Tatmadaw knows that if it pushes too far into EAO territory, it risks provoking a full-blown response. provoking a full-blown response. The EAOs, meanwhile, have been aiding and training the PDF and still maintaining enough deniability that Natat Madar has not been forced into a confrontation. EAO-PDF alliances look different in different regions, and often realities on the ground bear little relationship to the backdoor diplomacy and official stances embraced by leadership and public. The war continues to have a huge toll on civilians.

According to the United Nations, in total some 440,000 people have been newly displaced since the coup happened in February 2021, adding to an existing 370,000 who had fled their homes from earlier waves of violence and over a million people who had fled the Rohingya genocide. More than half the population of Kareni state has fled. Humanitarian access is hard. Much of the relief effort for displaced people occurs within local communities. Thousands of refugees are camping along the border with Thailand, which is defined by rivers. Initially, many people fled into Thailand, but terrible conditions in refugee camps led some of them to return to Myanmar. Now, they wade across the river for international aid donations of food and water, but they can't bring themselves to stay in the crowded camps overnight,

so they wade back to sleep on the Burmese side of the bank. The UNHCR, the High Commission on Refugees, has been unable to access camps in Thailand or Myanmar to check on the conditions. But it has urged the Thai government, which has been credibly accused of forcing people back across the border, to move people to better conditions further into Thailand instead of keeping them in camps near the border. And here we find the unfortunate, unavoidable reality of the civil war in Myanmar. For all the uniqueness of aspects of the conflict, the innovative ways that Gen Z militias have interfaced with older ethnic military forces, the 3D printed arms, etc. At the end of the day,

this is another brutal, horrific conflict between large numbers of people who want to be free and a small number of people who want to control them. From Myanmar to Armenia, Ukraine to Syria, Ethiopia to Iraq, and beyond, the novelties of 21st century conflict don't change the fact that at the end of the day, each war brings with it what might be the truest symbol of our current age. Parents saying goodbye to their kids, camps filled with death-brought people fleeing violence, and governments all over the world willing to send nothing more than kind words and stern warnings. and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories,

their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real inspiring stories from the people, you know, follow and admire join me every week for post run high. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to post run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter

Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America gasoline counters with shape-shifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network,

available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley

into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse

and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry

and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. This is a postscript to episode four. It's not one that we'd been intending to record because it's not news that we'd ever hoped to have to share. But here we are.

Unfortunately, we found out that about 10 days after we last spoke and a couple of weeks before we released our podcast, Zor died. He died in battle fighting with the Tatmadaw. I suppose, an amazingly brave and courageous young man. And I think that his loss is one that reflects the realities of what war is, which is not great and glorious and exciting. It's young men and sometimes young women, young non-binary folks, I imagine too, um, dying, uh, when they had no quarrel with anyone, when they just wanted to live their lives. Um, two years ago, a year and a half ago, even he was, uh, just loving the people he loved, having fun, being a kid, riding his motorcycle, speaking to his girlfriend on his phone,

living a happy life. And then someone who had power decided they wanted to have more power. And they decided that it didn't matter how many kids had to die so they could have what they want. And he decided to say no to that. And that's brave. And I think all of us would agree that what he did was right and morally courageous. And that we would hope to be brave enough to do the same if the same thing happened to us. This one's hit me quite hard, honestly. I know this is my job and this happens. It's happened before and it'll happen again. But he was such a happy, polite, kind young man. He never didn't pick up the phone.

He never got tired of explaining stuff that we didn't understand. And he always answered our questions. There was nothing that was off the table. There was nothing that he wouldn't talk about with us. He was completely open. And yeah, we will miss him greatly. He died fighting the thing that we all have to fight, right? Fascism, dictatorship, totalitarianism, militarization. And yeah, we'll grieve his loss both robert and i we've just spoken on the phone and we found out because the contact of mine on the ground sent me a reddit message

with a link to a facebook post and it's very clearly zorin no doubt about that It names him. And unfortunately, it also shows him dead. So we're not in any doubt that it was him who died. And we're not in any doubt that we will gravely miss him either. We both hoped to go over and record with him, to speak with him, to meet him. I'd spoken to him several times on video, sometimes just to chat, not even to record anything, just to chat, just to catch up and look at what each of us was doing that day. So it's a hard loss for me and for Robert too. As I said, we'd just spoken. So yeah, that's the news that we hadn't hoped to end on. Obviously, though, this is the reality of war. As the world is looking at the conflict in Ukraine, now, I'd urge you to look at the conflict in Myanmar too. Russian bomb killed another nice kid who never had any quarrel with anyone who just wanted to

live his life and didn't want to live the rest of his life with a boot on his neck. So he decided to stand up against it. As you can probably hear in my voice, I'm quite upset by his loss and will be probably for a few days uh so i'm sorry to have to end this podcast on such a sad note i'm sorry for his family who are now caught between the loss of their son and trying to protect their daughters um i'm sorry for his girlfriend who's dealing with shrapnel in her own leg and now the loss of the person she loved um and i'm sorry for his girlfriend who's dealing with shrapnel in her own leg and now the loss of the person she loved and I'm sorry for his comrades

they've said they'll go on fighting and I hope they do and I don't think there's any point really pretending to be objective at this stage in the games and I hope they win but I mostly just hope that one day

young men and women and everyone else just gets to live their lives without having to kill and die. Because ultimately, no one should have to and no parents should have to bury their kids. So, yeah, as much as we're all focusing on Ukraine and what's happening there is terrible please don't forget Zor's comrades please don't forget his legacy and please don't forget him we won't and we obviously want to dedicate this podcast to him and what he stood for so yeah thanks Yeah. Thanks. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America.

terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into Tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look

at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from.