It Could Happen Here - Darién Gap: One Year Later | Part Three: The American Nightmare

Episode Date: December 3, 2025

In the third episode of a four part series, James talks about ICE raids, Primrose’s time in detention, and the start of mass protest against Trump’s mass deportations.  Primrose’s Legal Aid Fundraiser: https://www.gofundme.com/f/immigration-lawyer-for-primrose Sources: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/21/world/americas/trump-us-mexico-border.html https://www.fresnobee.com/news/article299272524.html https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/woody-guthrie-deportee-song-immigrants-rare-recording-1235383582/ https://southkernsol.org/2024/09/30/marker-unveiled-at-1948-plane-crash-site-that-killed-28-mexican-passengers/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-orders/  http://www.toddmillerwriter.com/border-patrol-nation/  https://timzhernandez.com/all-they-will-call-you/  https://www.ice.gov/features/atd  https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/04/us/ice-impersonators-on-the-rise-arrests-made-as-authorities-issue-national-warning  https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1225&num=0&edition=prelimSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains? Is that the plot of Footloose? I'm comedian Rory Scoville,

and I'm here to tell you, Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product.

With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman's Cut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit Gentleman'scuturban.com. Please enjoy responsibly. On an all-new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas,

actress and director Brittany Snow opens up about challenging age bias. Hollywood wants to kind of disregard women after the age of 32. And she reflects on the responsibility of inspiring other women. You sharing your story might just be really small to you, but it might be the story that someone needs to feel like there's hope. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Las Culturista and listen to the full podcast now. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte?

The most anticipated guest from season three is here, The Trey to My Charlotte. Kyle McLaughlin joins me to relive all of the magical Trey and Charlotte moments. He reveals what he thinks of Trey giving Charlotte a cardboard baby and why he chose not to return to in just like that. You listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As we always do, we have included the sources for this podcast in the show notes. I've also included a link to Primrose's Legal Aid fundraiser. People would like to help out. For Rose, Noemi, and Primrose, and the dozens of other migrants I met in the jungle,

the goal was to get here. Some of them had friends they wanted to stay with, but many did not. They just wanted a chance. A chance to work and be paid a fair way. a chance for their kids to have a dream and a future, a chance to sleep safely at night. Once they got across that line, over that wall or across that river, they wanted to make their case for asylum, to ask for help and someone to keep them safe, to give them an opportunity to build their lives again.

But even for the very few who made it, the risks weren't over. Within hours of taking office, Trump had begun signing executive orders that would make life for migrants on the way to the USA, and those already here, even more difficult. To the cheers of the crowd, he signed an order that kept TikTok online, pardoned the people who stormed the capital on January 6, 2021, and attempted to rescind birthright citizenship from the children of migrants. He ended CBP 1, and with his Sharpie,

ordered the building of more walls, and the resulting death of more people who came here to ask for help. Within days of Trump taking office, federal agents from ICE, the DEA, the FBI, and other agencies had begun a campaign of made for social media raid, In Colorado, they raided apartment buildings, which had played a load-bearing role in right-wing conspiracies about Tren de Ragua months before. At universities, they grabbed young men and women off campus for the crime of opposing genocide. People entering the country were stopped and had their devices searched, not just for evidence of crime, but also for evidence of mocking the president or the vice president.

Trump added various organized crime groups, a list of foreign terrorist organizations, and attempted to totally ban asylum, including for the people fleeing those very organizations. people who had waited month for an appointment on CBP1 now had their appointment cancelled. They were left totally without hope, at risk, and with nowhere to go for help. Trump used a border emergency declaration to justify his proclamation and quickly followed up with more military deployments, wall construction, and a huge increase in the funding for state surveillance. People still crossed, but their numbers decreased if many of them were quickly deported back to Mexico. Here's Kirsten Zitlau, promorze's lawyer, explaining the new system.

So there are no new asylum cases. In other words, people who cross at the southern border are now detained only to be removed immediately, basically, or as soon as possible. Under what's called 212F authority, it's under the Immigration and Nationality Act, Trump has used this authority, which basically broadly says that if the president finds a certain class of immigrants, or the entry of immigrants would be detrimental to the interests of the United States. They made by proclamation, you know, suspend all entry of said immigrants. So whereas people used to get credible fear interviews or were paroled into the United States to be allowed to fight an asylum case, none of that is happening anymore. And people are, if anything, only screened for what's called Convention Against Torture

screenings to just determine, like, hey, are they going to be tortured by their government or with the acquiescence of their government if they're returned to their home country. But even then, they are not allowed to remain in the United States or fight any relief in the United States. That just means that they will be deported to a third country. For people inside the USA, the situation wasn't much better. First as a trickle and then as a torrent,

we started to see videos of masked unidentified men jumping out of unmarked vehicles to grab people, many of whom were migrants and detained them. In most cases, these were federal agents from ICE and other federal agencies like the FBI, the ATF and the DEA, whose officers were detailed to support ICE. In an increasing number of cases, they were people imitating ICE. For migrants, many of whom had fled totalitarian regimes where people were disappeared by the state,

they were a reminder of what they'd run away from. The place they had come to be safe started to feel like the place they'd had to leave because it wasn't safe. In Primrose's case, things were a bit different. When Kirsten filed a motion to appear remotely, she got an extremely unusual response. on my WebEx motion, I was emailed the order of the judge along with a notice that permers should self-deport. So judges are sending out these notices with routine other orders in cases where the immigrant has counsel is fighting their case. It's obvious they're fighting their case. Yeah. So it's one of the things where you just feel very strongly this

administration's influence. Are they obliged to do that? Or is that a choice that the judge's making? No, not at all. It's not at all. And in fact, it's completely inappropriate. The immigration bar is taking a different approach to it. Some are filing motions to recuse, telling the judges, hey, you need to recuse yourself. You're a non-neutral judge to send this out in the middle of the case.

It's absurd. It's a due process violation. They're entitled to a neutral judge. See, just one of the many areas where things are not as they have been. The Trump administration has flouted rules and even court orders. It sent migrants to El Salvador's mega-examination. prison, Secod, a place where torture is routine and where few people have ever left. They attempted to bring criminal charges against migrants to justify their actions and eventually ended up in a

prisoner change with the Maduro regime. At the same time, Maduro's government began offering quote-unquote humanitarian flights to Venezuelans in Mexico. And some even took to navigating the Dalian Gap southwards to return to Colombia, where they thought they might have some chance at a decent life. In the USA, a country with more guns and people, Everyone seemed to be holding their breath and worrying that we'd see an increase in lethal violence. But after a few weeks, thankfully that hadn't happened. But more and more, where ICE agents showed up, local people also showed up. They called the more number of things, fascists, cowards, traitors.

And then people began to organize, following ICE agents around and announcing their presence, identifying their hotels and making noise outside, picking up neighbors' kids and getting their groceries so people wouldn't need to expose themselves to the risk of arrest. If ICE agents were spotted, people alerted their communities. In cities across the U.S., people began to form networks to take care of their neighbors. Some of this came from lifelong activists, but much of it did not. People even began using apps normally used for suburban racism, like Next Door and Ring, to call out the presence of ice.

Raids were opposed, and ICE agents were shouted out across the country, but they still kept going. It wasn't until June that we saw the first mass protest. Everyone wondered if we'd be in for another hot summer like 2020. CBP officers had been deployed to L.A. to conduct a series of loud and once again curated for Instagram braids. Border Patrol's El Centro sector chief patrol agent Gregory Bovino became the face of the operation. Even before Trump had taken office, just a day after Congress had certified, the results of the election, Vovina had sent 65 agents six hours north of the border

to push the boundaries of what people would accept. In California's Central Valley, not so far from Los Gatos Canyon, he led Operation Return to Sender, accosting Latino farm workers at convenience stores and on the way to work. Bavino claimed the operation was targeted, but reporting from CalMatters showed CBP had no prior records for 77 of the 78 people it arrested. Bovino, who has bestowed the title of Premier Sector on the part of the border he oversees, has five agents on a team dedicated to producing videos. He likes to praise Eisenhower, whose Operation WS.G often flew migrants to El Centro before they were sent back to Mexico.

The plane, which crashed in Nostgato's Canyon, was headed there. Bovino has a long history of these raids, dating back to at least 2010 in Las Vegas, and he is very much the face of the new Border Patrol approach. While ice numbers are growing, CBP still has several times more offices, and indeed some reporting suggests that ice offices and some offices might be replaced with CBP personnel. Border Patrol notionally operates within 100 miles at the border, an area which includes all U.S. coastline and the entire shore of the Great Lakes. And even then, this 100 miles is an interpretation and not a hard legal blog.

This remit covers two-thirds of the population, gives them a wide leeway to infringe on the Fourth Amendment. This has been the case for decades, since it has been a case. Department of Homeland Security was founded after 9-11. But mass protests against CBP has been rare. We've seen it on occasion. A lesson you'd think for an agency was such a broad remit in a country that seemed so proud of the first ten amendments to the Constitution. In L.A., though, people weren't having it. Following a series of violent raids, Border Patrol agents had been met with protest across the city. They'd responded with tear gas, projectile weapons and threats. They'd arrested Dennis Huerta,

leader of the service employees United International, one of the largest unions in the country, as well as dozens of other Angelenos. They'd shot tear gas out of moving vehicles and launched projectiles into the faces of reporters and bystanders alike. Seeing this, doing what I do, I got on a train to Los Angeles,

but with it being Southern California, it took like five hours. Are they throwing or shooting? Do you get hit? You okay? I'm going to that tree on the right. After getting off the train in LA and before I met my friend Charles McBride to work on some coverage together. I walked around Alvada Street, grabbed a coffee, and spoke to some of the local folks. There were tags all over the walls and windows of the buildings around the train station. But that's always been how L.A. has expressed itself.

All I heard from people I met there was support. One man expressed to me that his anxiety made protest very uncomfortable for him, that he was glad to see people standing up. Obviously, crimes against property is something that parts of Los Angeles take very seriously. It's a spiritual home of conspicuous consumption. But in this instance, it seemed that everyone I've met either didn't care or was so mad that they didn't care. From mid-morning to early the next day, LAPD, who are not supposed to assist CBP, but who can enforce state law, chased angry kids around their own city.

In Skid Row and downtown L.A., tear gas flooded the streets, and so did young people from across town. In between the tear gas and pepper balls, I managed to talk to a few of them. Their stories were similar. They were those kids whose better futures have bought their parents here. They were citizens, raised in the USA to believe in the right to free speech and assembly, something they were now using to make their voices heard. I mean, my family, they're, you know, susceptible to all the ice raids and stuff like that. And, you know, being a citizen here, I feel like it's my duty to come out here and, you know, speak out for those who can.

It made me think of Primrose and Kimberley and the future they might both have. I sincerely hoped that one day Kimberley and every other kid I met in the jungle would feel brave enough to be out here and despite everything be strong enough to stand up against state violence unbeknown to me Primrose and Kim weren't that far away they had a check-in with ice at the DTLA federal building that day and as they rode by in a bus past a protesting crowd Kim said to her mum look it's Uncle James

her mom of course told her it couldn't have been but she was right it was After nine months of only speaking on the phone, Kimberly somehow recognized me, despite me being wrapped up in a helmet and a plate carrier. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this?

How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From smartless media, campside media, and big money players comes crimeless. Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoville, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways folks have broken the laws.

Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes. There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap if you think she's a witch, and it freaks you out. He has x-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow me.

He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. But with every sip, you get a little something different. Visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentlemen's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky.

For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentleman's cut bourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. What were some of the memories from your USO tours? Nobody knew who I was and they were like, why do we have to say hello to this guy? Recently on the Good Stuff podcast, we sat down with our friend Bradley Cooper to about family. What is the good stuff to you? I mean, of course it's my daughter.

His deep friendship with host Jacob. He was there when I found out that I was going to have a baby, which was incredible. I remember that. You showed me the picture. You're like, what's that mean? And I was like, oh, my God. Did you ever tell the clinician story on this? Which one? Well, they're the handcuffed.

Oh, dude. And how they've been there for each other through the hard times. You know, I've been lucky enough to have dealt with some issues early on, you know, relatively literally on in my life. And I was able to sort of walk Jacob through some stuff. Yeah, next month I'll be eight years clean and sober. You were a big time part of that. I leaned on you real heavy. I think times that you knew and times you didn't know. Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On an all new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas, actress and director, Brittany Snow, opens up about challenging age bias. Hollywood wants to kind of disregard women after the age of 32. And she reflects on the responsibility of inspiring other women. You sharing your story might just be really small to you, but it might be the story that someone needs to feel like there's hope. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search less, cultureistas, and listen to the full podcast now.

When they first arrived, they went to stay with someone they knew in Texas. I planned to go and visit them there and accompany them to their court hearing. At this point, ICE agents had already begun snatching people in the corridors of courthouses after the government withdrew their cases and placed them in expedited removal proceedings, which meant mandatory detention. There's not much any of us can do about this, but I didn't want them to be alone. Then I got COVID and couldn't go. Here's Kirsten explaining how this process works.

So INA, Section 235, applies to people who entered within less than two years, like you said. They can be then subject to what's called expedited removal. That means that they have to take a credible fear interview and be detained. And that they only get to fight a case if they pass their credible fear interview. They do not qualify for an immigration judge bond. So they only get out if ICE lets them out, which of course ICE is letting nobody out. So the administration wants to have people detained under this authority, this 235 authority, as much as possible, to have them have to fight their case detained and either lose the will to do so and or not be able to afford an attorney because detained cases move along a lot quicker and are very costly as well for that reason. So what they're doing is anybody who was here two years or less but was paroled in.

So they're in the regular Immigration Court proceedings. They got out, they're under 240 proceedings that's called. So DHS attorneys in court are terminating those proceedings. They're asking the judge to terminate the 240 proceedings. So then that case is closed. And then they immediately restart a case under Section 235. That hearing went relatively smoothly. Their lawyer, who is now working for whatever Primrose could fundraise,

was able to help them make their case. They left with another hearing scheduled. Soon after, they decided to move to L.A. to stay with another friend after the housing situation in Texas fell through. They were living in East L.A. when they had their next ice check in. Yeah, I was having an appointment. And you said they went back to get some documents, and then you wait for hours and hours.

Yeah, I went there, I think, around 8 to 4 p.m. At first they came and gave me my papers. They said, go to chat with which is close to where you stay, then to come here in L.A. downtown. So when I walk away, I realized there was no other documents. Then I walk, I go back. I said to Kim, let's go back inside. Then I go to the reception.

Then I ask the lady. And she was erudiate first. Then she took my documents. Then said, oh, okay, let me go and find it. Three hours, four hours, not coming back. Then she came and called me, I think, 4 p.m. Then the ice officer is just telling me I'm going to detail. I said, oh, why?

I said, we are going to explain more where you are going. I said, oh, okay. Like thousands of other migrants who are trying to do as they're asked, Primrose was detained at her check-in, along with Kim. Previously, she'd been given ice check-ins in Riverside, despite living in East L.A. I'd helped her navigate the four-and-a-half-hour bus route to get there on time. I wondered how on earth someone who doesn't have a friend here

who doesn't speak English, she's expected to do this. She went out of her way to make sure she was there, and she had her documents in order despite all of this. But she and Kimberly were detained anyway. It's not hard for me to see why people in L.A. were mad. Then they took me to Santana. We were just sitting, not even... One ice officer come talk to me, nothing.

I was just sitting. And the other thing, they just took my phone same time. They switched it off. And I said, can I tell even one of my friends, maybe they are worried now, say, no, no, we are going to give you a phone later on. I said, okay. So in Sandana, they took us in a hotel to sleep. Then the following day, they took back us to Sandana detention center.

Not even one officer. I was being asking the security. They said, we don't even know. We spent the whole day sitting. doing nothing. We were just sitting. Then they took us, I think, around 6 p.m., back to Los Angeles.

Then when, that's where I saw the ICE officer. Then she explained to me, we are going to detain you, we are going to put you somewhere because the rules are changing every day. I even ask, did I do something?

She said no. I've heard this from a lot of migrants. The ICE agents managing then non-detained docket, as opposed to those in enforcement, removal, or detention, seemed to be struggling to keep out with the pace of the changes in rules. Many of the migrants I'd heard from had decent relationships with the officers who do their check-ins, and they can't understand why other officers working for the same organisation would detain them, even though they're doing exactly what they're asked to do.

They are doing things, quote-unquote, the right way, but that's not enough for an agency desperately driven by quotas and the desire to purge of people who had risk their lives to become Americans. Let's hear how this felt for Primrose. Then she said, do you have a lawyer? I said yes. Then she said, okay, it's fine. So she gave me another document to sign. Then I signed like, they are going to detain me. Then I ask for how long? She said, I don't think you guys where you are going,

and going to stay more than 14 days, maybe less than 14 days. I said, okay. Then I asked. I asked a phone to call a lawyer, she gave me a phone. Then I conduct the lawyer, the lawyer the phone was off. Then I tried to conduct one of my friends. Then he answered, I said, yo, we wanted to go to the police to ask because we were worried, because your phone was off. And the ICE officer, the ICE officer, both I was having a GPS.

So my GPS was off. So they were phoning the person who helped me in Texas looking for me. Then he also replied, said, I'm also looking for you. I don't even know where she is. So people, they were worried. Maybe someone could help you, something happened to me. Yeah. Yeah, so.

And another ICE officer is also looking for you. Yeah, the other officer were looking for me. They were even sending messages on their app. Yeah, yeah, asking where are you charge your GPS and the other ice officer was detained me. Then I even explained to her. She said, oh, no, no, it's okay. Then she took the scissors.

Then she cut the GPS. She cut it off. Then we spent, I think, one hour. It was around seven. Then they said, okay, oh, there's someone who is coming to take you and your daughter, so to take you.

somewhere which is safe with your child. I ask where. Those people, they said, we don't know, we don't know. Then I said, oh, okay. Then they searched me. They said, did you want to take your bag? They said, no, no, it's fine. I can ask even someone, because I know I was having house key for the apartment.

Primrose, like many people seeking asylum, had to wear a GPS ankle tag, part of ICE's Alternatives to Detention Program. There are various parts of the program, including facial recognition check-ins via a smartphone app, home visits, and the intensive supervision appearance program, which is administered by behavioral interventions, a geo-group subsidiary. ISAP, as it's known, includes an app through which people can check it, as well as the GPS monitors and smart watches, which can monitor GPS and do facial recognition. Very obviously, they are not being used in a systematic way, as one branch of ice was

detaining Primrose, while another was using a GPS tag to try and find her. All of the GPS devices used as alternatives to detention represent massive surveillance overreach, an invasion of privacy, and a huge government drag net of data they can use to track down migrants and the people they're with. Despite this, they're also better than detention, which is where Primrose ended up, but not directly. I thought maybe they're going to deport me. I can't go with the keys. Then they took my bag. I said, okay, we are going to put somewhere. After one hour, they took us to

Lark's airport. They put us in a hotel. It was around 12thia, that time. And they said, okay, when you can have a shower, then you can have a nap. So me, I was in the shower, and Kimberlish was already on the bed,

sleeping. Then the lady came in, He said, oh, make fast, we are going to, we want to go back to pick another person where we came from. Then I wake Kimball. So Kimball, she was crying. She was like, I want to sleep because she was having headache. Then they said, no, no, no, it's okay, let's go. You are going to sleep where we are going.

We spent the whole night up and down. We came back again to L.A. downtown to pick another guy with his son. Then they took us to San Diego airport. I think we arrived there, I think, 5 a.m. To take the flight to Susanna, Andonia, Texas. Then, after that, and the other lady, she was rude. The other one, she was nice. She was fine.

The other one, if you ask her, she was rude. Then I just keep quiet. then I think at the airport we spent three hours sitting then we catch our flight 8am to San Antonio they took us to delay immigration they welcome us nice everything yeah then they put us inside but for me I was I was crying to be honest yeah I was even

and crying, like, you know, the only person make me strong is came, and it's worse for her, like, since last year. Since last year, your life is something else. I'm just moving from one place to another, moving from one place to another, you know. She's a strong girl, but sometimes you can see. When you see her sitting down, starting crying, she's, you know, she's a strong girl, but sometimes you can see when you see a sitting down starting crying you just remind you something

yeah so yeah the Florida settlement governed detention of children by immigration authorities it limits the time they can be held to 20 days and establishes minimum standards for their detention and treatment

it was a lawsuit based on this Florese settlement that eventually ended the Biden-era policy of outdoor detention. The settlement is widely flouted, but it was the best hope Primrose and Kimberly had. Kirsten, their lawyer, who we heard from earlier, worked tirelessly to demand baby treated according to their rights. How was it, you called me a few times in Dilley, right? Like, how, Kim wasn't having a good time?

At first, first week, it was hard even for both of us. Yeah. Yeah. Even the food, me, I wasn't even. It first, it was very hard for both of us. But you know, kids, she was like used to. Primrose called me a few times from detention. I pick up the phone to a robot voice and the number would identify itself on my phone as federal detention or something like that. At first, obviously, I was afraid.

But I had an idea of what it could be. Yet another connection that began with a little piece of waterproof paper in the jungle and was now, nine months later, leading to a phone call from a prison for family, in Texas. I'd pick up the phone and then I'd have to press one or two to accept the call. I always wondered what I was about to hear. I could tell she was trying to put on a brave face, but she sounded so small, it was difficult, really hard to hear. She said Kim wasn't eating the food, which I've often

heard is terrible. I spent hours trying to find out how to put money on their commissary account so she could get something a little better. Kirsten fought on and on to try and get them released. I remember at one point hearing from Primrose, locked up with her daughter for the crime. of asking this country for help on the 4th of July. It would be too cliche if I made that up, but nothing this year really seems believable. Even a nice detention, which is a miserable place for anyone, Primrose and Kim had an especially hard time

as most of the migrants they were detained with spoke Spanish. And the other thing is like those people, especially the room they put me, all of them, they were Spanish. And me, I don't even understand the Spanish. I even asked the ICE officer, can you please maybe because there's another lady also, two ladies, I think

Africans, we were only four families. So we even ask them, can you put us in one room so that we can understand each other, even especially for the TV, you know, kids. They refuse. So sometimes

I even had a report to one of the lead. She was very rude to as she came and speak something so me and Kim we don't even understand like what she said

so I just saw people they're doing something then later on she was like hey I came here and I said this and that this and I said when you came here you just speak Spanish you didn't even explain with English and of which me I don't understand English so she

just wrote a report to a boss so your boss came and called me Then I explained to, yeah. Then she was like, oh, okay. Then they called, yeah. She wanted to say, no, no, no, I even explained to English. Then there's another woman inside my room.

Then she spoke with Spanish. I didn't even hear, but she was telling the officer, no, no, no, this woman, she's lying. She just came and speak Spanish here, not English. So these people, they were just sleeping. They didn't even know what to do because she just only spoke Spanish only. I've heard this from lots of migrants. They end up serving as translators for each other

because the agency that is funded better than most countries' militaries seemingly won't provide them. Often people who speak indigenous languages have to find a translator into Spanish or Russian or whatever other language they have a colonial relationship with. Other times, there's just nobody to help them, and they're even more alone than afraid. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows?

and found yourself with more questions than answers? And what is this? How is that not a story we all know? What's this? Where is that? Why is it wet? Boy, do we have a show for you? From Smartless Media, Campside Media, and Big Money Players, comes Crimeless.

Join me, Josh Dean, investigative journalists. And me, Roy Scoval, comedian, as we celebrate the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. We'll look into some of the silliest ways, have broken the laws. Honestly, it feels more like a high-level prank than a crime. Who catfishes a city? And meets some memorable anti-heroes.

There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys. Clap, if you think, she's a witch. And it freaks you out. He has x-ray vision. How could I not follow him? Honestly, I got to follow me. He can see right through me. Listen to Crimless on the IHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit gentlemen'scut bourbon.com or your nearest total wines or Bevmo. This message is intended for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com.

Please enjoy responsibly. What were some of the memories from your U.S.O. tours? Nobody knew who I was, and they were like, why do we have to say hello to this guy? Recently on the Good Stuff podcast, we sat down with our friend Bradley Cooper to talk about family. What is the good stuff to you? I mean, of course it's my daughter. His deep friendship with host Jacob. He was there when I found out that I was going to have a baby, which was incredible.

I remember that. You showed me the picture. You're like, what's that mean? And I was like, oh, my God. Did you ever tell the clinician story on this? Which one? Well, they're the handcuffed. Oh, dude.

And how they've been there for each other through the hard times. You know, I've been lucky enough to have dealt with some issues early on, you know, relatively early on in my life. And I was able to sort of walk Jacob through some stuff. Yeah, next month I'll be eight years clean and sober. You were a big time part of that. I leaned on you real heavy. I think times that you knew and times you didn't know.

Listen to the Good Stuff podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On an all new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas, actress and director Brittany Snow opens up about challenging age bias. Hollywood wants to kind of disregard women after the age of 32. And she reflects on the responsibility of inspiring other women. You sharing your story might just be really small to you, but it might be the story that someone needs to feel like there's hope.

Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Las Culturistas and listen to the full podcast now. Luckily, Primrose wasn't alone. She had Kim with her. And as they always do, they looked out for each other. These aren't things the child should have to do. Certainly not a child as young as Kimberly. But in the end, it was Kimberly who could help work out what was going on.

Then the ice officer, I started crying. Then they took me to psychologists. Then they said, no, it's okay. I think I even spent three days that side they removed me in the room then they put me back so

Kimberlish was learning and standing Spanish so sometimes she's helping me oh mommy they said this and that they said this and that I even write a note

to complain like when these people came then we have to accommodate all of us because it's not like oh we are all Spanish and I we don't understand Spanish. Along with being overcrowded and underfed,

migrants at ICE facilities are often incredibly bored. I've heard of some of them trying to teach yoga or share stories, but for the most part they're so afraid and isolated that they are forced to sit with their anxieties day after day. I can't imagine what this is like for parents who have to try and maintain their own

mental health and take care of their children. But to be honest, we were just sitting. So time goes, oh yeah. Because I remember one day we went to play we went to the gym to play I think soccer with Kim I just fell

down I just fell down they took me to hospital I think I spent I think three hours then I wake up yeah you passed down yeah because I think it's

depression so they put me in depression pills until I get it out Yeah, because my Bibi was high every time, every time, and every time. Yeah, but I asked my ICE officer about my case, then she just replied, me, I'm just waiting for ice to close your case, so then we can start for asylum.

So I was just sitting, doing nothing. Despite what the detention was doing to her, Primrose remained determined to keep fighting her case. Every Thursday, an ICE officer would come by and she would be able to ask about her case. She'd been looking forward to the only point in her week when she might get some good news, or at least some news, about what was happening to her and why.

Sadly, that's not how it went. Yeah, the ICE officer was very rude, to be honest. Everyone just walked away without, and people they were crying, complaining. Then he was like, I went to him straight to him. I wanted to ask him a question. He said, hey, I don't have time. The only thing I can even tell you guys,

if you're tired to stay in here, because they were putting papers for self deportation in our rooms. Like if you want to deportation, any time you can just sign, put your A number, your phone number, everything. Then they can make you ticket here. In her lowest moments, Primrose said, she felt like giving up.

Maybe it all wasn't worth it, she thought. If she would do anything to get away from the hell of the detention center, that's the goal of these places to break people. But Kimbley reminded her what they'd come all this way for. Because when I was in detention, there's a time I was like, I'm going to sign a deportation form. Oh, he screamed. She said, no.

people they are going to kill you if you want to go back oh it's fine it's up to you if you want to go die go not me sign your paper not my paper you must sign yours then you can go don't sign my name no

I would rather stay here because I know because there's a lot of people happen in here especially in my country also so she still remember everything The depression, hunger, boredom and misery that characterizes eyes detention is not a bug,

it's a feature, it's supposed to force people into breaking, into signing those papers, into getting sent back to whatever they came here to escape. However, the tenacity that brought Primrose's fire hadn't left her, but she made sure to let them know she was not willingly going back. Then I said, no, me, I'm not going anyway, because my life is in danger. Then he said, I don't care even if they kill you. don't even care you have to take a form and sign if you are tired then I said okay at least tell me my my case because when they catch me was like everyone was

asking me where did they catch you I explained the other officer was like so who detain you I said I don't even know the name but that ice officer he was very rude said I don't care do you think I care I don't even care whether you go back to your country, whether they killed you, it's none of my business, I have my family, I've had a lot. Oh, so people, people, they were like shouted him. Those Spanish, they were even crying, shouted him. He just walked away and leave us. So people just also starting to walk away, go around. We even write a note, we put like a complaint, but no one even come and.

your pastor did the day they just come and call me they are going to release me yeah Keston had spent weeks calling, emailing and demanding that Primrose and Kimberly be treated according to the rights under the Florida settlement I wasn't sure if it was a lost cause but it was the only option we had

and I was happy that Kimberly unlike so many others in that detention centre had someone to fight for her in fact she had hundreds of people people all across the country had donated to her legal aid fund Here in San Diego, people put on shows and took collections to pay for her legal fees.

Listeners to this show dipped into their pockets to support Primrose and Kimberley. But thanks to them, she had a chance to get out. Like many other legal rights at migrants' house, Flores was being widely ignored, and it's likely to Trump admin will take a run at removing it all together soon. But for now, in this one case,

it still applied. But even once ICE conceded that Primrose and Kimberly had a right to be freed, they still took their time doing it. They released me on the 10th, yeah. I remember you called me just on the 4th. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I called you, yeah, exactly.

You thought you were going to get out that week, but they took longer and longer. Yeah. The release felt like a victory, but she still faced the same difficulty she had before. Primrose could not legally work. She was still in L.A., where Border Patrol and the Bovino were conducting violent raids

and people accused of no crime other than crossing the border between ports of entry. And because it was the summer, Kimberly still hadn't resumed her education. So that was July, like we're in August now. Yeah. You said your work permit still hasn't come, right? Yeah, they clear everything.

I was supposed to get my work permit on this July. But they clear everything. Like, I knew everything. They just clear everything. So starting August, yeah. It's November now, and there's still no permit. Here's Kirsten explaining in May of this year how this system works. You have a work permit clock, right?

Which is another absurd thing for Asylees, that once they file their asylum application, they have to wait 150 days before they can apply for a work permit. And, of course, they're expected to be independently wealthy during those five months or, you know, or starve, I don't know what they're expected to do. Yeah, rely on the generosity of others. Exactly. So if you do something like try to change venue or a motion to continue, if you do something in your case that the judge perceives as not moving the case along and rather like kind of trying to stall it or possibly pausing it or slow it down, the judge will stop the work permit clock the days. And it's a whole thing. So Primrose's was stopped because the judge wanted her to get an attorney. So then usually when the case is set for a final hearing, that code, adjournment code

they call it. We have the access to the codes and what stops the clock and what doesn't and it always restarts the clock because you moved your case along because you're setting it for trial. It's obviously moving your case along. Hers was not restarted. That video is still on Primrose's mind

as well. It still comes up when she goes to a new church or meets new people. Even 11 months later, one of the worst days of her life still follows her. And the person who posted me on my video please I don't know how to say but the comments I was reading

it was really bad and people they just judge people without even know their status where they came from yeah I can't control them but deep down I'm not okay and you see even now I'm struggling for my knee yeah And the other people, they will laugh at me, like, yeah. But it's not funny, and I wish if the person may be supposed to cover my face

or to cover Kimball's face. Yeah. But I didn't want their time in L.A. to entirely be defined by their detention. I didn't want them to think that everyone in this country doesn't want them here. I never really expect the government to make people feel welcome here. I think that's something we should do. These people are joining our communities. They risk their lives to come and live here, with us.

And it's us who should welcome them. We can't leave that to the whims of the Electoral College. We have to do it ourselves, just like the people in Baho Tjikito did. So I drove up to Alay. Primrose and Kim had another ice appointment, and I arranged to meet them after. I freaked out a little bit when I couldn't get through to them, but eventually I did. The big ice building has no signal inside, it turns out. out. Their place in L.A. is where I conducted the interview you heard. I took them out for a

manicure first, because it seemed like something that would make them feel taken care of, and I got Kim's and Bubblesie because she wanted to try it. Sitting the little manicure shop, watching a Vietnamese lady take great care over their nails, felt like another glimpse of the communities we aspire to build, where people from all over the world can come and be safe. By this time, I hadn't heard from Norway for months, and I'd started to realize I might not ever again. But I decided I wasn't going to let Kimberley live so close to Disneyland and not go. One of my colleagues has family who worked there. We got Primrose and Kimberly day passes.

It felt really nice just to give them a day to be a family and not to worry. I didn't go with them and record. I wanted them to enjoy the day on their own. And by all accounts, they did. Primrose sent me pictures of them smiling outside various riots and exhibit. And I felt a little bit better to have a help make someone's American dream a little less of a nightmare. Tomorrow, I want to talk more about welcoming people in our communities and taking care of them, because now more than ever, I think that's what we have to do.

It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening. Have you ever listened to those true crime shows and found yourself with more questions than answers? Who catfishes a city? Is it even safe to snort human remains?

Is that the plot of footloos? I'm comedian Rory Scoville, and I'm here to tell you, Josh Dean and I have a new podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. It's called Crimeless, a true crime comedy podcast. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your. podcast. I'm Stefan Curry, and this is Gentleman's Cut. I think what makes Gentleman's Cut different is me being a part of developing the profile of this beautiful finished product. With every sip, you get a little something different. Visit Gentleman's Cut Bourbon.com or your nearest Total Wines or Bevmo. This message is intended

for audiences 21 and older. Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, Boone County, Kentucky. For more on Gentleman's Cut Bourbon, please visit gentlemen's cut bourbon.com. Please enjoy responsibly. On an all new episode of IHeartRadios Las Culturistas, actress and director Brittany Snow, opens up about challenging age bias. Hollywood

wants to kind of disregard women after the age of 32. And she reflects on the responsibility of inspiring other women. You sharing your story might just be really small to you, but it might be the story that someone needs to feel like there's hope. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search

Las Culturistas and listen to the full podcast now. I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast, Are You a Charlotte? The most anticipated guest from season three is here, The Trey to My Charlotte. Kyle McLaughlin joins me to relive all of the magical Trey and Charlotte moments. He reveals what he thinks of Trey giving Charlotte a cardboard baby and why he chose not to return to it just like that. You listen to Are You a Charlotte on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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