It Could Happen Here - Enabling Self Managed Abortion in Your Community

Episode Date: September 8, 2021

How you can help people in your community gain access to reproductive healthcare and flip off the Texas legislature. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadowbride. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech

brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating.

I don't feel emotions correctly. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take phone calls from anonymous strangers as a fake gecko therapist and try to learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. Check it out for yourself by searching for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, this is Robert Evans and welcome once again to It Could Happen Here, a podcast where we talk about the fact that, you know, things are kind of falling apart and we try to arm you with information to help deal with that. apart. And we try to arm you with information to help deal with that. As I'm sure most of you are aware, one of the big news pieces that happened just about two days ago, as I'm recording this,

is that the state of Texas finally rammed through a massive abortion restriction that essentially kind of their goal, and they've so far been successful in this was kind of looping around Roe v. Wade by essentially deputizing regular Texans to get $10,000 bounties on their, their fellow citizens by reporting people who get abortions after six weeks, in addition to kind of shutting down any legal avenue to do that. So the Supreme Court has so far punted on taking any action on that. And it's a pretty desperate situation. There's now rumblings that Florida is going to try to do the same thing. And as a result, there's never been a more important time to talk about the subject of today's episode, which is self-managed abortion. to talk about the subject of today's episode, which is self-managed abortion. And in order to talk about that, because I'm certainly no expert, we've got Susan Yano, who was a co-founder of Women Help Women and Self-Managed Abortion Safe and Supported. Susan, thank you very much for coming on the show and talking with me today. Sure. It's nice to be here. And maybe a place to start is to talk about what self-managed

abortion is. Yeah. Because one of the things that is shocking, even though abortion pills have been allowed by the FDA in this country since 2000, lots of people don't know that there are pills that essentially cause a miscarriage. They have been available in clinics since the year 2000, of miscarriage. They have been available in clinics since the year 2000. But even more importantly, they've been available outside the clinic since the 1980s. And people in other countries have been using them on their own safely and effectively. And increasingly, over the last decade, people in this country have been using these exact same pills safely and effectively on their own. So I just want to be clear because people, when they hear the word self-managed abortion, might flash on unsafe methods like sharp objects or herbs, which can be safe but can be unsafe but haven't really been scientifically documented.

These pills have been studied more than almost any other medicine on the planet. And so we know from science that misoprostol with or without nifepristone, that's the names of the pills, cause a safe abortion. And, you know, I was listening to an interview with you earlier today, and you brought up something that I was unaware of, which is that these medicines kind of got their start being used for self-managed abortion in Latin America, where abortion is, legal abortion at least, is in many places just not available. And women, it was initially an ulcer drug? Am I remembering that correctly? Misoprostol was originally registered for ulcers.

And it was women in Brazil who noticed that right on the pill container, it said, do not use if you're pregnant could cause uterine contractions. And as in every country in the world for generations, if people don't want to be pregnant, they try to figure out a way to end that pregnancy, regardless of the law. So women started experimenting with taking misoprostol. Ultimately, the World Health Organization has studied these pills and come up with the most recommended protocols, which people can find on our website, abortionpillinfo.org, or in many, many places in the internet, if they Google the words misoprostol and abortion. And your organization doesn't provide the pills, but you do provide people information on how-

Right. The idea of SAMS, because there are restrictions, there are some legal risks in people using these pills on their own, even before this draconian law in Texas, which tries to criminalize everybody. But it is legal to share information that's published in scientific journals and by the World Health Organization. So on the website, abortionpillinfo.org, are the protocols for how to use misoprostol alone or in combination with mefocristone? Because it is a little more effective when combined with mefocristone, but the mifepristone is harder to get. And people, I think, are often frightened about just the idea of self-managed

abortion, in part because when people talk about the bad old days before Roe v. Wade, they're talking about something that I think people would think about when they hear self-managed abortion, if they're not aware of kind of what it actually is. But one of the points you make that I think is so valid is that just on its own, like if you do nothing, about 20, 15 to 20% of pregnancies self-terminate on their own. And this is what the pills are doing. It's nothing different than what happens if you just kind of have an embryo stop. Exactly. The pills cause the uterus to contract and push out whatever's in there. I think you raise a really important issue because there's two things. One is these abortion pills have been so tightly regulated and controlled by our medical institutions that people aren't as

familiar with them as they could and should be. I mean, these pills are so safe that they could be in people's medicine cabinets. But in this country, sexuality is really restricted. We should have over-the-counter birth control pills. So the first thing is, I think, is just to demystify these pills and to say that they're safe and effective. But the other is the stigma around abortion. The anti-abortion people have worked really hard to make people ashamed about their sexuality and ashamed about a pregnancy that they didn't want, as if people can do it all by themselves without somebody else being involved. And so this burden on women is they don't even, they're so shamed that they have a lot of fear and stigma around trying to get an abortion,

even outside of Texas. But then you compound it with this fear that has been raised by the anti-abortion people, all this misinformation. Oh, these pills aren't safe. Oh, they could cause breast cancer. Oh, they can impair future fertility, all of which has been debunked and is not true. But as we all know, misinformation has a long shelf life. Yeah. A longer shelf life than the truth in a lot of cases. Exactly. I want to talk a little bit about just kind of the, the facts about how this stuff functions. So particularly from, we have a lot of listeners in Texas, I'm sure a decent number of the people listening right now are very rightfully concerned. number of the people listening right now are very rightfully concerned. The present law essentially criminalizes medical abortion after six weeks. How late through do these pills work?

And then the second question I have is, obviously, a lot of women who get pregnant don't realize they're pregnant for until after six weeks. It can take a while. So what options, I know you have some options to recommend for tracking that, that, that, that are helpful as well in app. Right. So the first thing I just want to say is a lot of people don't know how to calculate the number of days of pregnancy and they hear this term LMP, last menstrual period. Basically people can count from the first day of their last menstruation to figure out how pregnant they are. We do have an app that I want to recommend called Yuki, E-U-K-I, comes from the word eucalyptus, which is a menstrual tracker, but also has information

about how to use contraception, how to use abortion pills. It is private and secure. The information is not available to anybody. It is private and secure. The information is not available to anybody. It was not commercially developed. It was developed by grants. So even we don't know other than how many people download it. We don't know how people are using it. So I really, I think it's really important that people understand how their bodies work, understand how to figure out how pregnant they are, and then understand how to use these pills. You asked a really important question, then understand how to use these pills. You asked a really important question, which is how late can these pills be used?

The WHO has studied the use of these pills through 12 weeks. And there is a set of protocols for how to use them for 12 weeks. And basically with misocostal alone, a person would need 12 tablets, 200 micrograms each, they would put four pills under their tongue, let them dissolve 30 minutes and then swallow, wait three hours, do it again, four pills under the tongue, 30 minutes, and then wait three hours and then use the last four pills. However, after 12 weeks, the pills can also be used to end a pregnancy. Misoprostol can be used for labor induction. Counterintuitively, however, the longer the pregnancy, the less misoprostol is needed. And a person doesn't want to take too much. Exactly.

You and I probably think, oh, I have a headache. I'll take two aspirin. Oh, it didn't go away. I'll take two more. Counterintuitively, as the uterus stretches with pregnancy, it's more sensitive to misoprostol and actually can be dangerous to use as much as one would use in the first 12 weeks. Anybody who wants to learn more can either go on the website abortionpillinfo.org, or use that website and contact skilled counselors from Women Help Women who are based overseas,

who answer over 12,000 emails a month about how to use these pills. And they will counsel people regardless of the number. They need to know how many weeks pregnant. They will adapt the information to that situation. But most people in this country who've gone to clinics for abortion do it in the first nine or 10 weeks. And these pills are extremely safe and effective to use with these WHO protocols up to 12 weeks. So while you're correct that most people don't know they're pregnant at six weeks, by the time they're eight, nine, 10 weeks, they've missed a period usually, and they've taken a pregnancy test and the urine pregnancy tests that people buy in the dollar store or in the pharmacy are pretty accurate.

Yeah. Welcome. I'm Danny Threl. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters

to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. brushes with supernatural creatures. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales

from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley

into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that

actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Hola, mi gente. It's Honey German, and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, música, películas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters,

this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home

and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You brought up something, which is that you have these people who can help provide advice, and they're overseas. And you kind of specify that every time I hear you talk about it. And you also specify

the degree of security which you put on these conversations. And it's a degree that I think is uncommon for what should be a pretty basic medical procedure. And it's obviously because there's potential consequences here. I'm interested in kind of what are some of the present legal consequences and what are some of the present legal consequences and what are some of your worries when you adopt these very stringent security measures for people who come to you? So let's leave Texas aside. Prior to the Texas law, approximately 24 people in the United States had been prosecuted for using abortion pills without a clinician involved. In other words, for self-managing their abortion.

It's important to say most of the people who were prosecuted were not ultimately convicted, but some were, because many states criminalize the use of these pills without a clinician involved. That being said, thousands and thousands and thousands of people are obtaining misoprostol or mifepristone plus misoprostol in the United States. We have some websites that actually share the number of pills that they're sending into the US. And we also know about misoprostol sales going way up in countries where it is available over the counter. So there's no doubt. And also people have shared their stories. So that 24 is a tiny percentage of all the people who've been, who have used these pills. However, these pills are safe and effective and nobody should have a legal risk in using them.

Therefore, when we set up SAS, which is self-managed abortion, safe and supported, and it's a project of this international organization, Women Help Women. We were very aware that in the US, there's a lot of surveillance of people's bodies. There's a lot of potential to hack into people's emails. So we set up a very secure system where people can email our overseas counselors on a very secure server and get back an answer that will disappear within seven days. So there's no evidence in their phone or electronic device that they ever sent this email. We just thought, you know, it's an extra step. Most people probably aren't even aware

they're going through a secure site, but we want to make sure that nobody who contacts us can ever be prosecuted. Yeah. And it's, I mean, it seems like you're worried, especially given the nature of the Texas law, you're worried about vigilantes as much as anything, not necessarily even the state, but the kind of people who show up outside of Planned Parenthoods with guns. The good thing about an international organization running this is none of the people answering the email are in the US. Yeah.

organization running this is none of the people answering the email are in the U.S. Yeah. Pretty difficult for these Texas vigilantes or frankly, anybody else to file a lawsuit. First of all, it's all anonymized. Women Help Women doesn't advertise who our staff are. Of course. And none of them are in this country. I mean, that's very smart.

When was it set up this way? How long ago were you thinking about the direction? Because it seems like you had a pretty blunt understanding of where things were headed. where any kind of drug dealer has been called a drug dealer. We work in Poland where abortion is not legal in anywhere in the country. We work in many places in Latin America where abortion is highly criminalized. So we had security set up from the beginning. It was actually shortly after the election of, I'll call him Orange 45 because I swore that this, our ex-president's name will never cross my lips. My colleagues from Poland said, you know, we used to have legal abortion, and we lost it, and you're going to lose it too. People in the US better, you know, we should do

something for people in the United States. And that's why. So SAS was founded shortly after the inauguration of the last president, and has been in place ever since. A lot of our work is not just the website and answering. It's really raising the awareness of our colleagues. We also, before COVID, went into communities. Now we do it via Zoom. We actually do three-hour trainings to teach people how to use these medicines and how to teach others. That's awesome.

We have a manual in English and Spanish. We have people doing these trainings all over the US and have reached thousands of people directly with this information, sort of prophylactically with the belief that it shouldn't be when a person's pregnant that they understand how these pills work. This is basic information that people should have gotten in high school. It's like knowing how to put on a tourniquet or something. It should be part of your first aid kit. Or when to put on a Band-Aid and when to take an aspirin.

How do you treat a cold? So the knowledge about these pills, we've worked very hard to make it very accessible. We actually have low, we, you know, we've done these trainings in countries where there's not a lot of literacy. So we have graphics, we have videos, we have lots of ways to teach. Many aren't appropriate for the U.S. where there's more literacy, but sometimes less understanding about how bodies work. So, so our goal has been to, you know, we also go to professional conferences and sit on panels and try to raise awareness within the reproductive rights and reproductive justice movement about the importance of self-managed abortion as a tool of empowerment and breaking stigma. Why is this option not available to me in a state like Massachusetts where I live, where there's plenty of clinics?

But why can't I just walk down to the Walgreens and get these pills if a doctor tells me it's okay or without a doctor? They're so safe. So we really advocate for self-managed abortion as a viable option. It should be viable regardless of the law. Obviously, for many people, it's the only option in places like texas yeah um but it's as good it's a better some people don't want to go see a clinician yeah they don't want to go through a bunch of protesters they would just like to get a package in the mail with their medicines yeah i mean it's and that's i mean there's there's both the uh the tool of an immediate need and that there's desperate

people who need access to this, but it's also in a broader sense, like building power within individuals and within communities to manage their own reproductive healthcare, which I think is really important. Exactly. And there are people who could get to a clinic and have the means to go to a clinic who are opting not to go to a clinic. And because they feel confident in their ability to take these pills as directed to manage it. And I just want to say, we started

this conversation with talking about 15 to 20% of all pregnancies end in a miscarriage. Most people have a miscarriage, don't get medical care. They can manage the bleeding and they know when it's over and they know that they're fine. Which I think is an important point because I know people who have had very difficult miscarriages, but that's not most of them. Most of them are mild enough that, yeah, like you said, you don't need medical care. Well, I just want to be clear, you know, using the abortion pills does cause cramping and bleeding. Yeah.

But it is not so far out of most people with a uterus' experience to have cramping and bleeding every month. Yeah. So this is heavier cramping, heavier bleeding, but we know how to deal with this. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me as the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America.

From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German, and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again.

The podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love.

Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex Elite has turned silicon valley into a playground for billionaires from the chaotic world of generative ai to the destruction of google search better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose this season i'm going to be joined by everyone from nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field and i'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though.

I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough, so join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts.

Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez.

Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with.

His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network,

available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another point you make that I think is really important is that um you know with any medication there's a chance it'll be used wrong or it'll have a an expected effect if you have to if you take this stuff and you have to go to the doctor you don't need to tell the doctor this is what i've taken you you like could you talk to that about a little bit how someone would if they needed to go to the doctor as a result of an interaction or something, what they would be best to say? There are two kinds of complications that can happen. In very, very rare cases, a person can bleed too much, have a hemorrhage.

And they absolutely need medical care. The chance of a hemorrhage with these pills is exactly the same as the chance of a hemorrhage with a natural miscarriage. So it happens. Doctors in every ER know how to treat it. The other complication that can happen is infection. You know, there's some retained tissue and the bleeding continues and they need to get antibiotics. So what's really interesting about these pills is they move through the body relatively quickly. And there is no test of blood or urine for them. As long as the person, especially if the person

followed the directions and use them under the tongue or in the cheeks, they've gone through the stomach, they're gone. Yeah. In some directions, say to use the misoprostol vaginally, the problem with that is the inert substances in the pills could stay in the vagina for up to three days. And then there's evidence, right? Because the doctor could see the crumbs if they do a pelvic exam. But as long as the person used the pills, either use the misoprostol, one swallows the mephipristone, as long as they use it, and it's absorbed through the mouth, there are no tests. So the person can say, I'm bleeding, and I don't know why, which by the way, many people with a miscarriage know they were pregnant. It happens all the time. Or they could say I was pregnant and I think I'm having a miscarriage. We are really trying to work with some professional groups to increase awareness

that people shouldn't be vigilantes. Healthcare providers should not be vigilantes. But the only way a person's going to get in trouble is if they say they use the medicines. Yeah. Because even if the doctor says, did you use the medicines? There is no reason to say it. The treatment is exactly the same as for a natural miscarriage. I wanted to ask kind of how listeners, particularly listeners who, you know, may not personally need this medicine,

but may want to support what you're doing or may need the medicine and still want to support what you're doing. Are there ways in which people can either financially or otherwise help support y'all? Absolutely. Again, abortionpillinfo.org is our website. There's a whole section of what people can do.

They can learn about these pills and tell other people. They can get stickers to let people know they exist. Because remember, most people don't know there are abortion pills. So they don't even can get stickers to let people know they exist. Because remember, most people don't know there are abortion pills. So they don't even know how to look on the internet for this thing. So sharing information is really important. There's also a donation button there. But the biggest thing that people can do in this moment, apart from donating, is to educate themselves. They can either sign up to

take one of our trainings and become, we call them trainers, but it's really information sharing. You and I have just talked about these pills. You understand them more than you did half an hour ago. Training is a little too formal of a term for what we do, but afterwards people will understand these pills very well and be able to support others who either want to know about them or are using them. And the last thing I'd kind of like to ask you, if you don't mind sharing, is how did you get into this personally? Like what brought you into this lineup? Great question. So I've been doing abortion access work since the 80s.

I was involved in the big demonstrations in front of the clinics, etc. But I've also spent a lot of time in Mexico where these pills are over the counter and no. And it wasn't until and I'm a little embarrassed to say this, but it wasn't until about 15 years ago that it suddenly occurred to me, wait a second. i wonder why people in the u.s aren't doing what what people in mexico are doing um i'm just you know it just it's like i was crossing the border but the idea hadn't crossed yeah um and i started working with another international organization women on waves uh that was supplying these pills all over the world and i I learned more about them. And I eventually gave up my other day job and started doing this work more directly over the last 10 years.

Awesome. Well, Susan, I think that's everything I had to ask. Was there anything else you wanted to make sure to get out today? No, I just want to be really clear that, this is a human right and that people should have the option of going to a clinic and the closing of the, you know, this is going to result in clinics in Texas being down essentially, you know, and they can't keep their doors open with the few people who happen to get in before six weeks. And I think we have to do everything possible to support there being access to clinicians, that this is an option that we all need to learn more about.

Yeah. And to think about why, why is this so controlled? If this was a medicine, like it's more controlled than, than opiates. Yeah. It's certainly more controlled than Viagra and it's crazy. And it's misogynistic that these pills are not in our hands. So, yeah, I would encourage your listeners to get on the website. If they want more information, they can easily email through the website

and learn whatever they want. But it's all of our responsibility to learn this and to help get this information out. Absolutely. Susan Yenow, thank you so much for talking with us today. Thank you for having me. And thank you all for listening. This has been It Could Happen Here, and we'll be back tomorrow with another episode. Thank you so much, Susan.

You're very welcome. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of right.

An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. find legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into Tex Elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly.

I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take phone calls from anonymous strangers as a fake gecko therapist and try to learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. Check it out for yourself by searching for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.