It Could Happen Here -  Fighting for Incarcerated Workers

Episode Date: August 20, 2026

 Mia talks with Colin, Giselle, and Audra of the Incarcerated Workers Organizing Committee about organizing behind bars and the conditions of incarcerated workers in the US. Links: https://audrasrealthoughts.wordpress.com/ https://incarceratedworkers.org https://www.instagram.com/incarceratedworkers/ https://www.jailhouselawyersspeak.com/new-pageSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And here with me today to talk about the incarcerated workers organizing committee. As Colin from IWAC, Giselle Garcia, who is IWAC's California Outreach Coordinator, and Audra Dalson, who is a formerly incarcerated person and is MA support. To all three of you, welcome to the show. Thank you so very much. Thank you. Well, talk to the meeting. Yeah, I'm excited to talk to all of you, and I guess I want to start.

Can you explain a little bit about what the incarcerated workers organizing committee is for people who are unfamiliar with it? I'll kick us off and everyone can supplement. So I would definitely say that the incarcerated workers organizing committee or IWalk is a committee of the incarcerated workers of the workers. of the world labor union, and it was formed in recognition that there's probably not a more exploitative kind of labor setting than the prison system and not just, you know, U.S. centric, but also across the globe. And so our effort is to build a bridge with our incarcerated neighbors, build that connection and true solidarity rooted in connection

and then help support those inside with resources so that they can not only come to an understanding of the profound intentionality behind labor exploitation inside of carceral settings, but also give them support them with tools that they ask for when it comes to organizing those conditions. And it's led by those inside, really, because no one can inform process in this area other than those who are to actually want to talk more about what's happening right now and then come back to sort of more historical components or do you want to try to do the history now? Well, I think I can give like a tad bit on a since I was an incarcerated in me not long ago inside of CDCR, Trachilla, California.

CDRC is the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, which runs California's prison system. And I do understand the significance of working for pennies. Yeah. When that same job outside is paying $34. I worked for HFM. I made $35.40 an hour. That job out here pays in the streets $3540 a hour. Jesus.

The cost of living was low. The price of what it costs to live inside when a incarcerated situation was high. Two-paste, $2. After you do the two-paced, your lotion, your fuel at the small size, dollar store-sized prices, you don't have anything left to live with. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And it takes a lot to live inside of CDCR because they provide you housing because you're incarcerated.

Yeah. But outside of housing and the food that they try to put together to make right for us, oh, my God. There's really not much more they can do for you. A lot of the things they want you to do for yourself out of your penny job, your job that pays sense. Yeah. Yeah. So it was really hard. I did almost 16 years.

It was a struggle. It was ugly and it was a struggle. If not for IWalk, they gave us resources. to help us with books and paper, they taught us how to exercise our labor laws and how to fight for ourselves and to know what you are allowed and what you can have. And don't let nobody beat you.

Don't let them cheat you. This is your right to have this, you know? Yeah. I think just before our incarcerated, I left, they had raised the percentage rate on some of the jobs, the more harder laborers. They gave it a few more pennies. But it's crazy how a multi-billion dollar corporation

don't take care of the inmates who keep it working. We do the laundry, we do the cooking, we do the housing, we do the clerk work, make glasses, teeth, everything is done by inmates. I work for carpentry, so I built some of the buildings, but yet I only worked for pennies. And if you think about it, that penny labor is even lower than slave labor in Mexico or some of the more countries that don't provide anything.

Yeah. So obviously, as you're describing, these are unbelievably horrific conditions and wages. And God, I keep thinking about, you know, like $2 for toothpaste, if you're making 20 cents an hour, it's like 10 hours of work for like one of the small rings of toothpaste, which is just nightmare. What does organizing look like under those conditions? I think most of us lived in flight or fight mode. Yeah. You had to do what you had to do to survive.

The mental health level in CDCR is like 99% over super high because people are stealing toilet paper. And Pat, things they give us, but you need more because there's not enough and I don't make enough money to get some. You know, toothpaste. You're doing extra. So it has made the CDCR system a little volatile because people are still in a rob and mugging like in the free world, but you're taken from penny pinching people that don't have anything.

So it's made our environment a little bit more violent, if you've asked me. Yeah. I want to reflect on what Audra said. Prison is tremendously expensive, you know, within our circles, I guess. It's famously more expensive to send someone to prison than to send them to Harvard. However, people are in these, like, really desperate material circumstances for stuff like toothpaste, deodorant, even toothbrushes, and things like that. And within people that know about CDCR, the California prison system, on the men's side,

they do a thing where they track and monitor the calories that people get because the guys all, you know, like to work out a lot. And like, they just don't want people bulking up that much. And so they physically restrict the amount of protein and calorie intake to, oh, Jesus, sort of facilitate their ideal security situation. So, so they're just starving everyone, like intentionally. Yes, yes, precisely. Yeah. Keeping people, yeah, alive, you know, and in purgatory and not, not able to, like, be how they want to be. And so, like, that situation of artificial. scarcity is it's reflected on, you know, the outside of prison too and, you know, just hustle culture, you know, housing scarcity, artificial housing scarcity, all kinds of other artificial

scarcity. And I think in prison, it's like a, it's like a form of social conditioning where people are being conditioned into this scarcity mindset in like a really extreme way and being forced into this kind of hustle mindset. And so like all of the things. that the prison administration kind of like trots out to justify their new security, quote-unquote, measures, which is just often stuff like banning physical mail, you know, restrictions on visits, restrictions on books, restrictions on showers, restrictions on anything, you know, remotely humane about prison. Like these things are all justified as security.

And the things that they talk about when they talk about security is like, you know, drugs, you know, prison commerce, things like. this and like prison commerce exists because of this situation of incredible scarcity that the prison itself is like maintaining to begin with and the point of i walk in part like part of our sort of mission and like strategy is to get people together get people like you know talking about solidarity connecting people who have a kind of like-minded kind of outlook on things so that we can start to form a foundation for solidarity that is not based around the prison economy as it exists, but rather based on like inside, outside solidarity on like a, you know, a humanistic,

socialistic level. Right. In that sense, like there are stark similarities, but also very stark differences with, you know, other groups that do the same thing, right? Like, essentially a lot of groups that arise sort of spontaneously that do that kind of stuff tend to have a capitalistic nature to them. And those are the groups that become what the state refers to as gangs oftentimes. And there are different ones and they do different things and they have unique cultures. Like the term gang kind of flattens them all into one. But yeah, they're all very different and have different sort of survival adaptation mechanisms.

They're like large cliques. I think that word would like kind of be better from a CDR sense. CDCR is like one of the most largest human trafficking industries in the business. They collect people. They work people for nothing. And the revenue all goes back to them. Because no matter what we spend, we spend it with CDCR. So not only are you collecting 50, $60,000 a year per person,

and the institution is over packed, so it carries up to 2,500 people at a time. These people are working for either dollars or cents, and every dollar they have is invested back in CDCR. So it is 100% financial gain for CDCR, no matter how to look at it, because they supply everything, they sell everything. Everything goes right back to CDCR at the cost of human lives. for medical, poor food. The things that they give you is for you to barely make it. And what it does is it keeps you in the same kind of criminal mindset. So you're a better criminal when you leave because you have to do what you have to do to survive in there.

And at $40,000 and $50,000 per person a year, I feel like nobody should be hungry. Nobody should need shoes. Nobody should need T-shirts. Two-paces should be full-size. Shampoo should be full-size. They invested thousands, millions of dollars in mental health. And yet the suicide rate is high there because abuse rate is high there. Whether it's being abused by staff or by inmate, abuse is 24 hours around the clock in CDCR.

And only a very few survive. And they don't survive on scratch. They survive because they have a super will to survive. So for me, that's where I was at. I had a super will to survive. So I hid in the cracks. I tried to do my bare minimum. I stayed in groups and stuff.

I fed my mind. I nursed my body the best I could. I took care of my health the best I could. I just stayed focused. But I will always have me. Always. I've been a member for almost eight years now, eight nine years. I was a member incarcerated and now.

I would be able to talk to college and work through some of the worst moments. He would refer me to other entities of the, organization for support. They would give me referrals to how to give me books to take my mind out of places, refer me to places that would give us papers and pen. People would help us with laws and stuff we didn't understand, send us copies. You know, it was just really a platform for making you a stronger individual in an awful situation. And for that, I will always be grateful. And even now that I'm no longer incarcerated in CCCDCR, I get to see the fruit of the labor of everything this organization has

given to the people that are behind us. And I'm so grateful. Yeah. Jail conditions in California, and I think a lot of places are like even worse than prison conditions. And I mean, I remember when I was visiting someone in the Sacramento County Jail, and she was excited after multiple years in the county jail to go to federal prison. She was like over the moon that she was going to federal prison and getting out of the Sacramento County Jail.

So, Audra, I was wondering if you could describe the conditions in the Fresno County Jail and how we fixed them, or at least how they kind of Mickey Mouse did for the entire time that you were there just so that this wouldn't happen again. So I was incarcerated. I went back to recitence, you know, my life sentence. And that Fresno County Jail is horrible. It's infested. people are dying daily. If you have nobody, you have nothing.

It was really sad. I asked Collins and I walked to get involved. So when shop time came, they had put in to get some funding to help. People didn't have hygiene. It was very stinky and nasty. So they donated through me. And I bought the girls their hygines, shampoo, conditioners, two pays,

bought bags of snacks, I made them all little care packs. And I got to see a small amount of women in my pod spring to life, all because the organization cared. All because somebody re-stitched to the heart

and did a little something different. It made such a different. Yeah. Like they really all wanted to be involved. Like, how do I get involved with this? But I left shortly. after this all happened. So we didn't really get to click it in

because using the phone and stuff in there is not like being in prison. People are dying to get out of county jail. I mean, people are actually dying in their cells. One lady was left to fester in her infestations of ciss of stuff she had all over her body. Jesus. We had another lady in there that actually went out non-responsive

because they said nothing was wrong with her. And yet she had an internal. disease she had been living with all her life and they would not help her. Oh, God. And because I don't know a lot, I'm not going to name anything or anyone. Yeah. I just know I was a part of the situations. We were denied meals

sometimes. You were too late. You didn't come. People were denied meds. You should have been there. People who couldn't even walk and they had no medical assistance. People who were kicking as we know to kick alcohol or heroin or crystal

can be deadly. All they would do is bring them a gatorade one cup in the middle of the night. But these people were throwing up their guts, throwing up blood. It was crazy. It was really sad in there. But like I said, the one moment of joy was when IWC came in, Iowa came in and they literally contributed to making it a better environment for us. And we did something with that gel that in activists, vernacular, organizing, vernacular, you could call it a phone zap or like a distributed action. Yeah. So do you remember what our demands were with the jail?

I think we had like four or five. And they did most of them. I know one was with medical. It's been so long. I don't quite remember everything. But I know the girls were able to call all walk and file complaints or tell people about what was happening with them. And they would, you know, give them resources. and helped them out the best they could.

Women started filing grievances because they were actually being able to receive information that would help them. Yeah, I just found what we won, by the way. We won a violent guard transferred from that unit. Undoubtedly, they were just transferred to another unit and then moved back later. Increased access to showers in clean water, provided mental health care, put in repair work orders for showers and the television, and provided grievance forms. All that.

from just like, what I have to assume was like the Fresno County jails like first serious encounter with like public anger and scrutiny in probably years. Not that people aren't angry at them over this stuff, but like the way they just like absolutely hopped to is, you know, in my experience, indicative of people just used to getting away with it and receiving very little pushback. I just wanted to say that I think it also highlights the, importance of mutual aid within our movement work. You know, oftentimes in especially labor movement spaces, you hear a lot of, you know, focus on quote unquote organizing without recognition of kind of like the human element and like the human connection aspect to it and how,

you know, in different kind of spaces being able to break bread or if we can provide basic needs and supplies like, you know, for hygiene or, you know, I remember doing COVID, being able to provide folks who were incarcerated with soap, right? It was huge. And it's those gestures. Some people challenge that and say,

well, that's not really organizing, right? Yes, it is. Absolutely. It's recognizing our humanity, our basic needs. and showing up to try to support each other. It's not just, quote, unquote, fighting, right? And that kind of advocacy, but advocacy is also about mutual aid.

And so trying to live that and making sure we're meshing that with our movement work is essential. Yeah, I wanted to emphasize that, like, it's not like we sent some incredible amount of money to Audra when she was in Fresno County Jail. It was like maybe $100 or, like, not even. And yet it was able to do a lot of,

stuff. Andre, do you remember how much it was? I think it was 75 or 100. It was one of them. Yeah. So, I mean, that's that's like one small example of how like when you're doing prison solidarity, you're able to do so much. Like, you're able to have a tremendous impact for folks in a way that you are not able to do in any kind of organizing, at least for people in the present moment. And that is something that really attracted me to it as just kind of a spectrum-headed person. I was like, oh, this is like a very good labor cost to benefit ratio of like you can put in the same amount of work and reap like much greater benefit for a greater number of people. And that I think remains true today is something that folks should consider when considering

whether prison solidarity is something that they'd like to take part in. Thank you, Collins. The one thing I did remember more than anything out of Collins and their organizations coming into our county, the one thing I did see that you very get to see in incarcerated situations was in our pod a glimmer of hope. They planted a seed when they made it possible for us to fund help for people. and the next time around, people were donating a little bit. People who had more were donating to make sure those people kept things. I've seen unity in its greatest form with culture difference, stigma difference, race difference. Gangs didn't exist at that time.

I watched this come together. We started having prayer circles. The pod became more positive. And that all started with a heartfelt $75 to $100. It brought people together. And that never left. That never left. And I think it's the same thing in an incarceration situation when you're in prison.

When we build our little inside organizations and we help each other, we give hope to each other. I am so grateful to be a member of such a profound organization that believes in neighbor laws to help us be treated fairly, abolishments of institutions because know that they need to reap a little bit of what they sow. And a hand and a heart that says we care from across the mouse and this organization reaches different parts of the U.S. So it's not from one place. It's a whole unit and I'm grateful to be a part of it. Right. And in fact, IWAC exists in the United States. States. We have interest from some wobble in Canada.

And there is also established IWalk presidents in the UK, including Northern Ireland. Oh, huh. Radio experience with Cameron Wickcombe. Live at the Ryman. You and a pal with flights and two nights in Nashville. To see Cameron Whitcomb at the legendary Ryman Auditorium. Plus a thousand dollar spending cash.

Just listen to Pure Country for 10 minutes a day on the free IHard radio app and you're in to win. Cameron Whitcomb. Stream the new single, Kingdom of Fear. Available now. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice.

next to my ear saying shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it's. takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart

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Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land and they The first thing you see when it pops up is pioneers in Appalachia. But they weren't just planning houses. We need cities on a shining hill that exemplify and embody the Christian way of life. Stop right there. Is that normal? A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment. God need men to rule. Great. And decides to fight back.

Do not use my hard work to sell your bull-h-h-h-they're not just opposing. What's being planned for here? Our hometown is not a test tube. They feel like they're standing in opposition to an entire administration. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to Our Town on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What does it actually look like to be doing sort of jailhouse law and to be helping people understand what their rights are and trying to fight for better conditions through the internal legal system? I work for the law library in CDCR at Chachilla, SCWF.

SCWF is the Central California Women's Facility, a California Women's Prison. And I am what they call a jailhouse lawyer because I helped a few people go home. Not that I was brilliant, I just comprehend very well, and I articulate very well. So by me working there, I got to learn firsthand law books and penal codes and processes, and it was a wonderful thing. But it can also be a sad thing. Because before you know, you make a lot of mistakes. And those mistakes hurt people. Yeah. Because people can't afford lawyers. I mean, I went in there with 36 to life, lost all my levels of my appeal and never thought I would ever see the light of day. I knew I would die in prison. And a lot of jailhouse lawyers helped me.

and just it didn't happen because financially I was not able to do a lot. If you hadn't, Gavin Newsom, we sentenced me under exemplary programming. Obviously, I get a good program. I've done over 150 years ago of their groups and I facilitate. So I work my way out. But you got documentation in there that's probably 20 or 30 years old. It doesn't even apply with the laws that are today. People are using old documentation.

The courts are rejecting them because they have the wrong paperwork. A lot of things had been happening until some of us started 602ing, like, we need the right paperwork. We started fighting for that, and we started getting it. And people are now being able to see a glimmer of hope. It's all about, for me, it's about the fight. How bad do you want it? You know, I know what I would do to throw my life away.

What would I do to have my life back, you know, after I've worked it out, The same energy you put into it, it's the same energy you got to put it into it to get out of it, if not a little bit more. Did you talk a little bit more about how you went about actually getting the correct copies of the legal code? Because that seems like just an absolute nightmare. No, it is a nightmare. When I first started, I had two incarcerations, two life sentences. I just beat my second life sentences.

I was a three striker first, and at that time they didn't have a lot of paper. and there was a lot of rigorroring going on because of the law was so inadequately we put together just to please the people or the U.S., but not to be fair all the way around. A lot of people were getting life sentences for slices of pizza and hot dogs. God. You know, and I was one of those people. Don't get me wrong. So at that time, there wasn't a lot of legal paperwork.

The paperwork was so outdated. They were giving us. And people started, we started filing the pills. Hey, we have a right to the right paperwork. How am I going to get home? Yeah. If I don't have, I'm a fight if I don't have the right forms to fight with. Or we would, organizations would print us paperwork out that we wrote out to and they would send us the right one in.

And we would make copies in our own self at 10 cents a copy and put, change the copy that they used to copy the copy one. And the original would be in, it was a lot of scheming and scamming. But it was one thing. we were starting to go home. Yeah. The paperwork was being updated. You know, they had a lawsuit because they did have the right paperwork. They really started updating then because we had some legal mongroes, you know, lawyers, go to present too.

So if I'm understanding this right, are you saying that they had the right paperwork? They were just giving you the old one? No, they had the wrong paperwork. So we were sending out for the right paperwork, throwing away to old paperwork, and sliding the write paperwork in, the clerks that worked at the lawberry, we would do anything to make sure we can go home, you know? Yeah. I mean, but like I said, we had people who used to be lawyers.

I mean, if we had to wait a little bit longer, we could have had a president. I don't know. People are going to prison these days. Yeah. So, you know, but it was just that you had to have a will to be a success. And it took organizations like, I walked. When I was there, I needed certain paperwork. and college will look it up in reference for insinitity.

You know, legal paperwork that would help us. Whether we were fighting for our jobs not paying us right or we can't get a hold to this paperwork for us to be free. Yeah. He would send it and I would spread it like fire. You know, one sheet, I'm a clerk. I make a hundred copies hoping I don't get caught. You know?

It is what it is. and just trying to save lives. Yeah. That was important. But I'm on this thing talking. I really want to hear Gigi's aspect because she is like so superheroes. She's a great human being

and she fights for incarcerated inmates and she fights for labor rights and she fights for her organization and she fights for everything. And I would really like to hear her. I haven't heard her much. I don't like to hear her side. Oh, thank you, Wadra.

You are incredible, and I just want to listen to you. Thank you. And you are, you know, the one that we are taking notes from. So thank you for everything that you do and everything that you did while incarcerated and everything that you're doing now. Just so just so you know that we are all inspired by you always. Thank you. I, you know, as someone who has been in the legal field for many years,

You really, the more you're around legal professionals, specifically lawyers, you learn how little they actually do. I think a lot of the times are perception of civil rights and just movement work. We think of lawyers. We think of big organizations, right, that have been, you know, those big gains in the courts. But the reality is that the real work happens on the ground, grassroots. And so in the case of our prisoner movement, it happens behind those bars, behind those concrete walls. And when it comes to the most vulnerable, as you kind of go down, right, in terms of how impacted folks are, there are less and less lawyers that are willing to do their work and definitely less that are even able to.

They just don't bother, you know? And so what you really see when it comes to jailhouse lawyers is that they said we can't depend on these privileged class of people to fight for us, let alone free us. Yeah. So they've taken it into their own hand. And that's why it's such an honor for organization like IWalk and our members to be able to support in that hands-on participatory defense model, where it truly is about its understanding that our liberation will not come from external hands. it will come in, you know, internally will come from us who are impacted. And so supporting each other is what is going to make the difference. And I sound so simple, but sometimes it looks like sending in a book, an article,

pulling up, supporting evidence that someone can use, right? Doing some research and sending it in. And California has the Racial Justice Act, which is opening a pathway for a lot of folks to reopen their cases and have some resentencing done. And a lot of folks are, you know, being free now because of that legislation. And so, you know, how can we support in that way? But also, I always go back to building the relationship with folks inside because sometimes it looks like writing a letter of support for folks.

I mean, you can tell when someone writes a letter that didn't have. have a relationship with the person who needs a letter, right? But the opposite is also true. You can really tell when someone actually has a relationship with that person. It comes to life, what you're writing, and you feel that connection, right? So truly building those relationships, those friendships, I tell you some of our comrades inside I bicker with and we fight and we make up, you know, and we're there for the ups and downs and we'll give each other advice.

And it's true friendships that we've built behind those walls. And that alone is also a form of radical love and a radical part of this movement to form those bonds with those who the system tried to bury alive and circling back to, you know, jailhouse lawyers and how our incarcerated neighbors have taken control and a lead of their own defense. how important it is for us to be plugged in on the outside to different advances or regressions when it comes to the legal system. Because oftentimes we need to recognize that to be able to ignore policy, to be able to ignore what's happening in the streets is a tremendous privilege. It's not impacting you. When you are impacted, you cannot ignore what's happening around you because it's happening to you.

Right? Yeah. And so for us, if we feel like we're not impacted, even though we are, because it's all interconnected struggle, right? But if we feel like maybe we don't need to pay attention to struggles or advancements that could be used by people inside, then we're really privileged. And we're failing our neighbors inside. So I just hope that we can recognize that and understand that it is an obligation of

to move through life in a way that is thoughtful of those who could use our support and who we could empower because they don't have the same access to that information or the resources. And so in many ways, that's what IWOC does. And there's just something so powerful about getting out a piece of paper and pen and writing a hand-writing letter, stuffing an envelope with the literature. with zine or sending a book inside and putting that stamp on the envelope. It feels like a material manifestation of your solidarity. Oh, no, that was awesome.

If it's okay, I'd like to dig into some details on the sort of state of the civil rights liberalism, as we know it here in California, because I think like we glossed over a certain thing. that I'd like to clarify are not acts of benevolence on the part of the state and are in fact acts of just kind of like self-glazing on their part and like things that they do to sort of pat themselves on the back and then move on. So, I mean, first of all, Audra mentioned that Gavin Newsom had something to do with her release. I just wanted to circle back to that and point out that he's also completely screwed over some of our members, like gone completely out of his way to use his like what is basically like a veto power over parole that should not exist.

And it's just like set up to, yeah, create like, I mean, like this is how Gavin Newsom does everything in California. Like if I'm going to either take an action or not take an action as governor, is there any possibility that my action or inaction could make me look bad later on the national stage to people that are not my current constituents when I'm running for president? And he always does what he thinks is going to. create the least risk and make him look good to a national audience rather than to his current constituents. And that is pretty clearly what happened with another one of our members recently.

So yeah, fuck Evan Newsom, actually. Why does he even have the power to overwrite parole? Why does that even exist? That's absurd. I don't know. Yeah, you'd have to talk to some sort of like California constitutional historian to learn that. Yeah. The other thing I want to talk about was this racial justice act thing.

So this is something that on its surface, it sounds really radical. So first what they did was like in 2020 when, as we all know, nothing in particular was happening. They passed this law called the Racial Justice Act that was like, hey, if you're convicted, but it was like due to racial animus or like the length of the sentence perhaps, if not the conviction itself was due to like a racial bias, you can try to prove that or not prove it, but like do what's called a prima facer showing, which is like the lowest level of, you know, demonstrating something in court.

And then we'll just like let you go based on that alone, right? So that's, wow, pretty radical, right? Okay, so a couple things. First of all, that was only from the future onward. So that was not retroactive. Later, there was outcry about that. And so they came back and were like, oh, okay, yeah, all the people in prison now can do it too.

So the thing is this is also the kind of thing that can, like, overwhelm the courts, right? So, like, the way that this is being done in practice is like you get one shot at this ever. Yeah. As I understand it. And just like appeals, you get different amounts of appeals, I think, based on the conviction. But like, basically if you fuck it up, like, you're done because the courts are limited in their capacity.

You need to be able to move on to hear other people saying. And of course, people file it and it's not good. It's not done well. And like the infrastructure to violate your rights is like better funded all the time. Meanwhile, the institutions to, like, defend your rights are typically not publicly funded at all outside of, like, the courts proper. And, you know, maybe there are certain government agencies in some states. But then, like, private civil rights attorneys are who have the option to be kind of the real civil rights defenders. And they get funded based on, like, court fees that are, like, set by the government, right?

And so the government, like, creates these systems where, you know, the legislature essentially has the power to decide how much money a civil rights lawyer is going to be able to get practicing civil rights law by, like, suing the cops and stuff. In California and probably elsewhere, it's already, like, been settled that, like, if you do a civil rights case for something happening on the street, and then you do the same civil rights case for like the same thing happening to people in prison, you're going to make less money when it occurred in prison, basically. Jesus Christ. And, you know, maybe some legal person has a finer, you know, detailed

analysis of that than what I just said. But that's essentially my understanding. And I did work for for some attorneys who practice this kind of law at one point. So that is, pretty egregious. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I think that like there's, there's a lot of stuff in the kind of abolitionist sphere that is really kind of like nails on a chalkboard to me and I think a lot of other people who tend to take a more like radical yet like radical in the long run yet day-to-day pragmatic approach. I mean, one of those things is like the the nonprofit route basically or like the 501c3 route where you, you know, staff up, hire a bunch of people. If you started out, you know, being in the same class as the people who are in prison, you like

quickly propel yourself out of that class by doing this if you're successful. And then, like, things deteriorate from there as far as relationships go with people who are impacted. And then the other thing is, like, there's this strain of abolitionists who are like, well, we're the truest abolitionists because we just believe in, like, infinite second chances, basically. And so, like, we sometimes get questions of, like, how are you different from other abolitionist groups? So I would say, yeah, like, A, we're not afraid to, like, pick people out. It's like, you behave badly. I walk like your talk, like you're out.

Like, that's not the same as throwing someone in prison. Although people will make that equivalence. I love this, but I do have to go. I appreciate you guys allowing me a chance to speak. Thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate calling your support. I appreciate your support for allowing us on your podcast. I just want to say one thing.

When I was incarcerated, I would write, and Collins helped me start me a little website because I would write my emotions. I don't know if I can leak that website. Can I say what that website is in case you guys want to look at it? It's your website. Okay.

Thank you. It's Audra's A-U-D-R-A-S, Real Thoughts, R-E-A-L-L-Thots with the S-D-W-P-W-P-R-P-R-P-R-P-R-P-R-P. And it talks about my trauma, my prison life and everything. It has pictures and everything. And it would not be possible if it was not for Collins. It was my way of form the support group from inside out.

But I have to go because I do have somewhere else to be. It's been great having you here, Adra. Yeah, it's been amazing having you here. I really appreciate it. Yeah. I love you, Audra. G.G. Collins. Thank you guys so much.

I'll talk to you later. If you're comfortable with it, Audra, only if you're comfortable with it before you go. Do you want to tell Mia and the audience what your third strike was, allegedly? Yes. I was sentenced in 1994 for sales of a $20 piece of cocaine, and I was given 25 to life plus a five-year enhancement. This one, I was sentenced to 36 to life for second-degree raw. A lady say I robbed her why she was with her child, and then she recanted that story in court. I still was sentenced to 36 to life because she couldn't find her $40 that she lost.

There's a lot behind it. Actually, me and my partner at the time were co-defendants. He was let off because he had been in trouble in California, which was a good thing because he really was innocent. But I had to spend almost 16 years of my life in prison. for a crime I did not commit. It has its pros and its cons. I'm a better human being today, not because of CDCR,

but because of me and the support system that I had while incarcerated in CDC. And it just made me a stronger person. They said if it doesn't break you, it'll only make you stronger. So for anybody out there in the incarcerated world, don't give up, because if this doesn't break you,

it will only make you stronger, and you will get out because I did. And it's not always by the means that we think it will be, but when it's time, it happens. I've lived in the system long as I've lived a lifespan as a human being. I spent more time incarcerated for little stupid things. No murders, no mayhams, no beat-ups, no DUIs, no nothing like that. Things that no one should ever see prison walls behind, but I did. And like I said, I was made the stronger because I,

Organizations like you who support me, there were others, but you guys were the most impact in my life. You came in my life like a whirlwind, and you straightened everything. It helped me straighten my thoughts out in my life. You helped me in many ways because you didn't come in, get overwhelmed, and take off. You stayed the long call. Your organization is not an organization that quits. It's we're going to get some more to help us fight type of thing going on. And there's not a lot of organizations like that.

They get overwhelmed. It's too much going on. We ain't got enough of manpower. You guys only had people and you were making movements. I don't understand correctly. I think you guys wrote a letter for a friend and supported her through board. Now she's out in the free world. You know what I'm saying?

So you guys change lives because you don't give up on life. And for that, I hope you guys be around 100,000 years from now. And I'll always be a member. You guys have a great thing. Hopefully prisons aren't around for 100,000 years. But we love you, Audra. Hell yeah. Experience with Cameron Wickham.

Live at the Rhyman. With flights and two nights in Nashville. To see Cameron Wickham at the legendary Rhyman Auditorium. Plus a thousand dollar spending caps. Just listen to Pure Country for 10 minutes a day on the free IHart Radio app and you're in to win. Cameron Wickham. Stream the new single, Kingdom of Fear. Available now.

When I was 14 years old, I was kids. kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt. me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming.

They are abducted, stalked, controlled and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important, to your personality, welcome home. This is Proz Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary

deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to pro society on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. Our town is small taters. by most standards, right? But to the people who grew up here, it's everything. What happens when a quiet Tennessee town becomes the front line in a battle over the future of America? Developers with right-wing ties have purchased hundreds of acres of land in the area. The first thing you see when it pops up is pioneers in Appalachia.

But they weren't just planning houses. We need cities on a shining hill that exemplify and embody the Christian way of life. Stop right there. Is that normal? A podcast about what happens when a small town becomes the site of a social experiment. God need men to rule. Great. And decides to fight back. Do not use my hard work to sell your bull-h-h-hue.

They're not just opposing what's being planned for here. Our hometown is not a test tube. They feel like they're standing in opposition to an entire administration. Guess you didn't move in on a bunch of dumb hillbillies now, did you? Listen to our town on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I just want to add, when I clarified, like, about the racial justice act, I don't want to, you know, applaud it as a victory of the system.

Like, they're not really victories when the system still exists, right? But I just want to say that it is still our duty to know when we can find those little kind of avenues for some momentary reprie for some people. And that can look like some creative ways. During COVID, we actually created hundreds of pockets. for incarcerated folks so that they can actually file some tax documents and get their stimulus checks. Oh.

Which was major, right? So a ton of people were able to get their stimulus checks while incarcerated. Do you know how far that went? Yeah. So it's just like those kinds of creative ways. You know, we often think, you know, we drive past a coffee shop and we think, oh, yeah, my mom loves that coffee shop. We just hope that if we can make these.

connections with incarcerated neighbors, then we can, you know, as we're going through the world on the outside, we also make those connections. Like, oh, you know what? Stimulus checks. Oh, you know what? How do we get our incarcerated comrades to get those two, right? Making those connections with the people that you build bonds with. It's really important. Yeah. Can I go on a rant that covers most of the notes that I have that I haven't covered yet. Yeah, go for it. Okay, thank you. Prison organizing is tremendously popular with people in prison.

And a lot of people on the quote-unquote left or just with humanitarian sentiments on the outside are really great at, you know, encouraging us and being like, what you're doing is awesome and kind of giving us that like moral support, which does help. And also, you know, subscribing to our newsletter and sometimes doing phone zaps and stuff like that, but generally it is tremendously difficult moving people from passive to active support in this kind of organizing. Typically, I think there is that kind of out of sight, out of mind factor going on for a lot of people.

And I think there are organizing avenues out of that that I think we are, you know, always exploring new ways to kind of try and make those connections in an experiential kind of way rather than just like have you thought about how these things are connected but like actually making it like real for people you know but uh we have just found that like the most stalwart steadfast people in this struggle for the most part are people you know directly impacted by it are people who've been to jail in prison yeah or who have like close family members who are often currently there or we're recently there and so you know we'd love we'd love to hear from you if that's you in particular, we'd love to hear from you.

Love to plug you in. We are speaking, you know, from California, but again, the organization exists across the United States and aspirationally, Canada as well, and the UK. And there are also other prisoners solidarity organizations with a similar orientation, so it's not like

we're doing something totally unique and unheard of here. There's something called G.G. slash VO in Germany, which is also like a union for prisoners. And I want to say there's pretty similar stuff in Spain too associated with the anarchist movement there. In the United States, I think people are probably pretty familiar with like political prisoner support or like support committees for groups like the Minnesota 15 or the prairie land defendants and situations like that.

And that's really valuable and really important and no movement that like doesn't look after its people when they're in prison like is a serious movement that will go anywhere at the end of the day. So that work really, really matters. And I think that when people hear us as IWOP repeat one of our mottoes that like all prisoners are political, they don't quite necessarily get the analysis there. I mean, for one thing, like, you know, I'm going to give the spiel from the ground up, I guess, for a second, like crime as an artificial category, like what a conviction says on paper is not like reflective necessarily of what really happened. And there has yet to be, I think, some really, damning, like, study about this just because there just hasn't been a study. But it is widely

understood that, like, essentially all women in prison have suffered some kind of abuse in their lives. And almost all of the women in prison for murder murdered an abuser of either themselves or their kids or both. And in my book, that ain't a crime. Yeah. But Gigi, maybe if she's, if she wants to, can talk about how narrow the... self-defense rule actually is. And this is something that is like a popular myth that like the self-defense rule is actually really wide. And like if you know someone's coming to kill you, you can kill them first and it's not murder. Absolutely not true. I actually had a manager at a job. He was doing a training on something completely unrelated, I assure you. And he was just sort of going off and he was like,

and he was this fucking macho prick, right? Obviously, uh, based on what I'm about to say. But But, like, he was like, oh, yeah, like, if anyone attacks you in the middle of nowhere, you should just, like, kill them if you have the chance. And then there's only one story being told. And I was like, yeah, so that would be murder. And he was like, well, not if they attack you first. And I'm like, yeah, it is, actually. You know, like, if there's just a body and you're like, yeah, you attacked me.

Like, you should not assume that you will just get away with that. Like, that is not how things work at all. Yeah. Uh, G.D., do you want to elaborate on the self-defense rule and what it is versus what people think it is? Yeah. So it's really important for us to understand that our legal doctrines in the United States are created, to have loopholes for those in power, and to be very convoluted and impossible to benefit from for those who are our poor. So when it comes to the self-defense doctrine, we actually have seen that it is disproportionately unavailable to victims of domestic and intimate partner violence.

We have seen it disproportionately unavailable to black and brown men, to trans and non-gender conforming neighbors. And a big part of that reason is because a complete self-defense claim has six really important elements. You cannot be like the first aggressor. There's distinctions between the use of deadly versus non-debtly force, a reasonable belief that the level of force that you used was necessary to protect yourself, but also this concept of proportionality, right? We've seen that absolutely impact.

And I'm using DV cases. because of this kind of concept of imminence, right? So if someone was being abused for a long time by their partner or their spouse, and, you know, our psychology as humans, our psyche sometimes, you know, sometimes we snap, right? Yeah. If you didn't snap in the moment as a reaction to, you know, being home. in that moment, right? If your brain didn't make the proper calculation,

that defense is not available to you, right? There's so many, unfortunately, bars to actually being able to claim self-defense in a successful way. And it's very intentional. Unfortunately, it was intentionally designed that way to avoid the most vulnerable from using it. For example, there's this kind of concept of perception of threat, right, along with proportionality, right? So if someone is taller or maybe physically larger than their abuser, then there's this concept

that, well, is your abuser actually a threat to you? Mm-hmm. Right? And so there's just so many ways in which the law has not actually caught. up with our new knowledge when it comes to the psychological effects of living with intimate partner violence, the impact that it has on our reaction times, right, on the cycles, on the challenges for many survivors to be able to even compile long-term proof of abuse, etc.

We can go on endlessly. And so unfortunately, I think it's just a reflection. of our legal system, again, just created to bar those most vulnerable for many protection. And it's really just there so that those who have the resources and those who have the control of social norms, right? Those like young white men who have been perceived by juries as kind and innocent, right? Yeah, Kyle Rittenhouse. Exactly, right? That's who our laws were designed to protect, not our individuals.

And so that should just tie into our understanding of incarceration in this country and how it's truly not a reflection of what really happened. Most of the time, it's void of context, and it's just outright in just. Yeah, and there are a couple of resources, I think, for people. to check out if you're more interested in this. I mean, one question is like, how many people are in prison right now who are straight up innocent?

And the straightforward answer is, we have no idea. And, you know, as a rule, we just tend to take prisoners word on stuff. I mean, what everyone else does is just take the cops' word on stuff, frankly, including the news oftentimes. Yeah.

A big part of what we do is we are available to give comment to journalists when possible around certain jail in prison disturbances or, you know, actions that people in prisoner jail have taken to defend themselves against, you know, quote unquote, the law, the people, you know, torturing them essentially. Yeah. Because oftentimes, you know, local news in particular will just be straight up stenographers for whatever the police press release is. I mean, they'll often also just refer to things as riots that are not. Like, if people sit down and, like, refuse to leave the lunch area or, like,

the, you know, like the central sitting area, they will refer to that as like a riot, even if no one is like throwing punches. And just to sort of circle with labor. If you refuse to work, you get punished for it. It's not necessarily optional, right? It is absolutely a flavoring, not just because of the conditions and because of the, you know, poor payment, basically lack of payment, right? but because you are forced to work or you get punished.

And sometimes it goes on your record that could actually impact you for any kind of parole opportunities, et cetera. So it is punitive. It is exploitative. And it is nothing more than slavery. Yeah. To also touch base on, yeah, like the fact is it's slavery. I think that's like we and other organizers have done a pretty good job, I feel like, of like getting that fact into the mainstream and being like, yeah, like this is slavery,

like period, end of sentence. It is legally and materialist slavery. And now we're entering this process in which states like Colorado, for example, are passing laws that's like, yeah, so we're just like abolishing this slavery thing. And it's like, it's like the apparatus to deprive people of their rights has not itself been disempowered in any way. And so they're just like waving a blonde over this system of slavery being like, it's not now. like okay you know what I mean so like when we demand you know abolish the 13th it's like that's like

kind of a long term like strategic like legal demand but just because a state like I feel like this is being recuperated into the kind of like self-congratulatory you know like faux civil rights like liberalism at this point because like states are like abolishing their version of the 13th and then being like cool our work here is done oh but you didn't do anything actually right? And Colorado, in fact, still forces people to work in their prisons. And it is illegal technically, but like it ain't quite as illegal as, you know, it ain't the same type of illegal when the state is doing it, right? The state is not in fact gone by its own laws in practice. Yeah. And I mean, also juxtapose like everything that Gigi just said about self-defense

with like the excuses that cops are allowed to give when they shoot people out of, out at Randa. Yeah. Right? It's like, oh, well, the standard for a human being, you know, killing another human being is it has to be like in mutual combat. Like you have to be using proportionate force. Da da da da, da, da. Whereas like a cop can just be like, well, I kind of thought that he was holding something or whatever. So yeah. And as far as organizing goes, I mean, people, I just want to say people take lots of actions. So a lot of the form that our organizing takes is like we establish ourselves as a presence. We have our incarcerated members. They give us information about what either they or other groups of people are doing.

Other people on the outside know about us. They give us information about what's going on in places. And we are kind of known as like the prison labor organization that like does stuff around those. And there really isn't as far as I'm aware, a kind of organization that like does that direct support specifically around labor issues. anywhere else in the United States, again, outside of the local level, perhaps. So, yeah, what we do is we pressure the prisons and jails to give in to the prisoner's demands. And they're not necessarily going to be like, oh, well, now that we've heard from the public, we will do all the demands.

But like, you heard the list of stuff that we read off about the Fresno jail. Like, that was a surprising list of stuff and they weren't actually striking or anything. And so oftentimes, because of the power imbalance, it does sort of just make more sense for us to just pressure the prison directly, regardless of whether there's a strike or not. But people do go on strike in prison and do work slowdowns in prison and all that kind of stuff. And it helps to have an outside, like, buffer and, like, support team and, like, a relational network of support, just like it does with other workers, right? Like, building that kind of network of mutual aid and respect and support is what makes more action possible.

And so that's what we kind of seek to do. And prison solidarity is something that is also not one-directional. You know, you probably got a sense of this, you know, in the snippets with Audra. But we learn a lot from our inside members. We learn life-changing lessons from our inside members a lot. And they learn from us too. But we always tell new members, like, especially, you know, if they don't have a lot of experience with prison or whatever, it's like, do not approach this or from like a paternalistic standpoint. Like, yes, they.

have a lot to learn, but so do we. And relationships and lessons go both ways. And also, like, prison admins are just incredibly vulnerable to public scrutiny. Like, we heard how bad things are there. And it's like, they don't want people knowing this. Like, they have just skated by on like the kind of general Reagan 80s vibe of like, oh, yeah, this is actually part of the punishment, like, this entire time. And like, that is still their mindset. It's like, yeah, prison isn't supposed to be fun. What do you mean? We need to give people toothpaste. Like, that is still, like, their attitude to the T. And we need to intervene in that because that's really terrible, actually.

Yeah. And, you know, this is an authoritarian country, like, straight up for the less wealthy half of the population. And this is, like, a huge part of that. And we can't just, like, not challenge the prison system and then do, like, radical organizing of any other kind and be like, yeah, we can just ignore this prison thing. It surely will not come to eat us at any point, right? there's also this kind of myth of like labor as rehabilitation, which is just like a, you know, kind of Calvinist sort of, you know, humbug. But it's like, you know, we've already established that a lot of people in prison didn't do anything wrong.

But like for those who did, like, you know within whatever moral framework you're using, like, if you're someone who like goes around causing harm, how is like performing labor going to make you not that person? It's not. You're just producing surplus value, right? Yeah. So that's total bullshit. it. And it's also, you know, it's just kind of like this, this old fashioned 1800s logic of like poor houses and shit, you know, like make them work. It'll make everything better somehow.

And as for being sued, like, we know that the prisons hate being sued. The people who really sue them the best oftentimes are jailhouse lawyers. And we know that they hate that because, like, they will straight up try to have those people killed. Jesus. Not only will they try to have those people killed, they will try to have any kind of prison staff or guard that like grows a conscience and it's like yeah this thing that we did is kind of fucked up like I can't say with certainty but like those people have died under suspicious circumstances just to contextualize it like the prison admins fear public scrutiny like so much and whenever we do something like this that is like sustained and like strategic and

involving a lot of participation which it's unfortunately not always and we need to work on that and that is part of building a like staunch support base right is doing these distrainted actions in a way that is like really sustained. So, you know, we communicate with specific people and apply it pressure to the institution directly without going through any kind of like proper channels necessarily, which tend to just do nothing. But doing this, we have stopped jailhouse lawyers from being killed. We have gotten firefighters at the central California women's facility, their time credits.

which the prison was like dragging their feet on giving them to the extent that like it was actually going to affect when they got out. Like they were having like six months of time that they like weren't applying like eight months from like their current get out time. You know what I mean? Jesus. And so we fixed that. We have gotten multiple people like real medical care as opposed to like fake medical care. There was actually a kitchen strike that we didn't. We didn't directly support just because it like happened too quickly.

like I just I think I gave some like advice but that was about it and like they just like stop paying them like in California you're supposed to make like eight cents an hour or whatever and they just were like we're just not going to pay you or your eight cents anymore but eight cents an hour's too expensive for you as a person fuck it off God Jesus Christ I hate these people yeah I mean this is just the nature of exploitation like they're always just trying to like oh we've gotten away with a million things let's get away with a million and one things yep you know like it's it's it's the nature of of a and exploitation, right? But yeah, so they struck and they won back their eight cents an hour. And there was a slowdown that you can read about in PRISM reports, which is like a movement news outlet where people did a slowdown, people that were producing like the boxers for other prisoners, I believe, did a work slowdown about two years ago, 18 months ago or so. And this was just to get access to the commissary. So like they were making good money by like prison standards. But like the commissary closed while they were still working, and so they couldn't spend their money. Oh, but Jesus Christ.

Yeah. And so they did a slowdown to fix that. This was part of California Prison Industries Authority, which, like, is the manufacturer of oftentimes first resort for, like, all kinds of, like, furniture and other supplies for the state of California, including the UC system. And this is often the case with other states as well. And we also just are disseminating helpful info. all the time, like, with that legal info, it's like, if you show up with, like, a bunch of,

like, radical literature and, like, some legal info to, like, a punk show, people are going, like, why you have legal info? That's boring as hell. But, like, in prison, it's like, yeah, you're going to find some people interested in the radical info and, like, that stuff. People are interested in it, too. But, like, the legal info is what people really want because it is more practical. It's, like, you know, we, of course, we distribute information about the IWW and about solidarity unionism and, and, you know, feminism and all kinds of other stuff, you know, the Black Panthers, you know, the whole nine. But like what people really do want because it's the most practical is like, how do I sue the prison? How do I legally hack my way out of this beast? And like it works. And a lot of

our best and like brightest outside members who are once inside members, like they didn't just wait for their sentence to expire. They like had to file grievances and like take every opportunity to like be the prison's worst off to the point that the prison was just like just I'm going to fuck out already like enough of this person yeah so yeah that's most of what I got how can people support y'all and get involved more so definitely folks should visit us at incarcerated workers.org and we will provide those links and definitely sign up for our newsletter where we give some updates on what's happening inside in a safe way to protect our members inside and their organizing work, but also hear about, you know, work happening across the country and

across the world as well. I would also, I guess, just add that we really want labor unionists and health care workers and lawyers and law students and researchers to plug into our website because there are spaces just, oh, and reporters and journalists, I should say, as well, to plug into our website because there are spaces for just them. That doesn't mean that we don't want other people signing up to, but those professions, I think, in particular, you know, and educators also have a lot of impact and like a lot of relationships direct and indirect to the system that we want to kind of zero in on and do something with. And the website elaborates on that. If you're addicted to Instagram, you can follow us there at incarcerated workers and also at CA underscore IWalk or California.

But if you're not, then good for you. And instead, you should sign up to our email newsletter. Yeah, I will leave it at that. In short, let's burn it down. Amazing. Now, before we go, I want to mention something extremely important that we'll be covering in more detail in a later episode, which is the planned 27 National Prisoners Human Rights Strike

planned to run from Mayday to June 10th in 2017. We're going to talk more about this in a later episode and get more of the history of the 2016 and 2018 prison strikes that I walk and jailhouse lawyers speak, who we're going to be reading a statement from in a second we're involved in. But for now, I'm going to close this episode by quoting the statement released by jailhouse lawyer speak. Why We Strike A political storm is sweeping through many prisons across the nation as the prison class plaintiffs. see the hidden mechanisms of a system designed to dehumanize the imprisoned population. For too long, many of us were kept in the dark about the machinery behind our confinement, how law enforcement, district attorneys, politicians, and judges win elections on platforms

of mass imprisonment, and how private interests and rural economies profit off our bed counts. Our captive bodies are weaponized through prison-based gerrymandering, where our numbers are used to swell the political power and draw effect. federal funding into rural districts, all while stripping us of any voter representation. Through these exceptional clauses, the prison class is relegated to conditional citizenship, a status where constitutional rights are granted at the pleasure of the state. When officials can openly discuss transferring in prison citizens to foreign prisons without constitutional barrier, it is because these exception clauses have already stripped the prison

class of the full protections of citizenship. behind the razors. This legal disenfranchisement is paired with the reality of living in unventilated boiling cells during climate extremes, enduring endless so-called staffing shortage, lockdowns ordered by prison crafts, washing militarized round-ups in ice attention centers, and seeing poor people funneled into plea deals

simply because they cannot afford cash bail or paid legal defense. The trap extends beyond the walls. thousands on thousands of people in prison who meet the basic parole requirements are repeatedly denied parole by arbitrary boards citing, quote, the nature of the original crime, end quote, a static reason that never changes solely to maintain prison bed quotas. Even upon release, the carcral state traps formerly in prison people under supervision debt, electronic surveillance, income monitors, and restricted probation and parole systems that serve as a revolving door back to a cell. The core demands. While the full 10 national demands remain active, strike organizers across

committed states are focusing on three core demands. One, and legalize slavery. Repeal the Exception Clause of the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. This is the clause that last slavery is punishment in prisons. Two, restore voting rights. Repeal exception clauses such as Section 2 of the 14th Amendment that stripped voting rights from confined citizens, pretrial detainees, and former felons. Three, free all the political prisoners in U.S. prisons. Thank you all both for doing this work

and for fighting this fight and for being on this show. And I hope we all go out into the world and fight for workers everywhere, wherever they may be. And then start. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, Coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for it could happen here listed directly in episode descriptions.

Thanks for listening. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducting. stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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