It Could Happen Here - Hasbara, Pt. 2 with Matt Lieb

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

Matt Lieb is back with Shereen to continue his series about Hasbara.  Recorded January 30th, 2024  twitter.com/mattliebinstagram.com/mattliebjokesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and

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hey everyone welcome to it could happen here i am your guest host matt lieb back again with shireen eunice what's up shireen nothing this this is this is up yeah this is what's up no i happy to happy to be back hopefully you guys listened to part one already of matt's yeah really cool little series we got going on here. But if you haven't, listen to that first. And then we're continuing this Hasbara. This Hasbara journey. Yeah. This Hasbara train stops for no man.

Yeah. So this is part two of this series about Hasbara. Once again, Hasbllah is basically just means to explain and we're talking about Israeli propaganda and beyond. Not just propaganda, but so much more. So, we're going to talk a little bit about the myths about Israel that have kind of like gained a foothold in Western public consciousness to a degree that it's like, not just a foothold, but it's just kind of things that we commonly think are facts. So, if like, if you grew up in Zionism, which is like, if you don't know, that's a political

ideology that birthed the state of Israel. You have probably heard a lot of your teachers, your rabbis, your friends, your teachers, your rabbis, your friends, your family, your Israeli friends, your Israeli family talking about how it's your responsibility to explain Israel to the people. And growing up, you don't actually know that what you're doing is propaganda. Like you think you're just, you know, that you know more than most people because everyone else is getting their information from anti-Semites. You know, you think like you've got the real scoop and that most people are just, you know, born ignorant and biased against Jews. And you don't have to be Jewish to have been exposed to Hizbara. jews um and you don't have to be jewish to have been exposed to hesbara chances are that if you grew up in the west you probably hold several views about israel that are the result of decades

long pr campaigns so what i'm going to do now is a lightning round of myth busting this is just like real quick getting into some of the uh i don't know some of some of the most pervasive things that i think uh each one could be an entire episode but you know listen this is your guys's pod this isn't my podcast i can't just take it away from you so i'm just gonna do a lightning round with you are you ready shireen oh board ready let's do it okay. Israel is not a land without a people for a people without land. Okay. There were people there. I don't know if you know that Palestinians were there and 750,000 were expelled in 1948.

This whole conflict has not been going on for hundreds of years. It is very, very modern and it has nothing to do with an ancient religious rivalry. So, when someone says, oh, they've been killing each other for thousands of years. No, no, not even a little. No, that is not a thing. Israel, quote, lives in a tough neighborhood and it must act tough to survive. That is just regular ass racism and Orientalism. The idea that they just, you know, you have to be tough. You know, I mean, listen, a tough neighborhood is very much, that is translated for an American, a white American audience.

You know what I mean? What is a tough neighborhood? It's one with a lot of people of color. Here's another one. There are plenty of Arab people of color uh here's another one there are plenty of arab states why can't they just go there again this is a weird racist dehumanizing thing to tell someone whose house you just bulldozed like where you know whenever you see them like uh doing a big zoom out where they go like there's only one jewish state and there's all these arab states you know it's like no no no personal what happened here don't don't you know it's like you guy had house

army took house moved him to other area that is wrong period you can't just say go to another arab country that's that's just racism here's another one it's too complicated no it is not switch switch the roles in your head use your brain for a second switch the roles of jews and palestinians in your head and you'll have an easier time condemning the side that has powerful government and army whose crimes include genocide, apartheid, ethnic cleansing, military occupation, and religious slash racist settler terrorism. That is not complicated. If it were the Jews who lived in Gaza getting bombed mercilessly, you would not have a problem saying what was happening was genocide you just wouldn't just do that in your head all right here's another one zionism is an indigenous rights movement no it's fucking not it's not it is a settler colonialist movement that is something

that was made explicitly clear by the creators of modern zionism they not only talked about like settling and colonizing palestine but they referred to the arab occupants there as the indigenous population they they said indigent they god it just pisses me off and also the indigenous argument is like wait i just hate it in general when people go back and forth about who is indigenous there because it's so academic it's like it's dehumanizing and it obfuscates the whole thing because once again it is just palestinians being like i want to be able to vote i want to have my house back i literally have the key to my house and yes many of them literally still have the keys to their house. All right?

There's so many. There are so many goddamn myths and propaganda that I started a podcast about it. That's why. But much of the stuff that you take for granted as fact is not only a historic, but like wildly so. Like the IDF outnumbered the Arab states armies during the war 48. That is literally, they say the opposite. In the, you know, 1948 story of the creation of Israel, it's like UN created Israel, all the Arab states attacked. Israel. It's like UN created Israel, all the Arab states attacked. That is not actually what happened. We're not just that all the Arab states attack, but that Israel and the IDF overcame this

gigantic horde of Arab armies. The Arab armies that were in this fight are far fewer than have been reported. You know, they say it's like seven, it was more like four and only three of them, only one of them, only one of them had any sort of like modern military capabilities. The rest were not really armies like, and also they outnumbered the IDF outnumbered these armies in 1967. Here's another one. Israel attacked first in 1967. It was a preemptive strike like famously. And yet the, you know, 1967, it was a preemptive strike, like famously. And yet the, you know, once again, the narrative around the 1967 Six-Day War is that, you know,

Israel minding its own business and then Egypt along with the other Arabs. Yeah. Evil Arabs attacked. The Israeli army struck first. That is a fact that they talk about. army struck first that is a fact that they talk about and uh there's it's also very very much disputed as to whether or not the egyptian army was going to attack at all but you know there's no room for that narrative because it you know fucks up the the glorious story of what became the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. Another one, Ehud Barak absolutely did not offer the Palestinians a state during Oslo. He did not, nor did he offer 96% of the West Bank.

And no, Israel did not invent the fucking cherry tomato. Wait, they did it? No, they did not invent the fucking cherry tomato wait they did it no they did not there was a a haretz article about it where they're like no we didn't why do we keep saying this we didn't do this oh my god that's so funny no i mean so many of these talking points are some of the main arguments that zionists will use to be like well they rejected this and this is what happened here. And it's just like, these are all incorrect. You're just like regurgitating Hezbollah. Right. And it's because that Hezbollah has been so widely repeated and so often that it just kind of sinks in. Ehud Barak did not offer them a state in terms of what you would consider the definition of a state to be, you know,

and that is autonomy, that is sovereignty. They were not offering them sovereignty. They weren't offering 96% of the land. They had taken such a large percentage of it, and what they were offering was an even smaller percentage of what they had already taken. And they, the thing they were offering again, not a state,

not a state, not a sovereign autonomous state, but you know, this is a things people are willing to believe. And that's just, that's the whole thing. And again, I prefer to say it's the, I am rubber.

You are glue tactic, but you know, it's the same am rubber, you are glue tactic. But, you know, it's the same shit. You know, Hezbollah likes to invert the victim and the victimizer. And the reason is simple. They know that the West is much more willing to believe that Jews are the victims and Arabs are oppressors. It's just, it's playing on Western guilt and complicity in Europe during the Holocaust. And it's playing on kind of liberal sympathies in general. And honestly, it's playing on, well, who do you know if you're in the West?

If you're in the West, you know some Jews, maybe. You don't know Arabs. The Arabs you do know are on tv doing bad you know and that is one of the reasons for the effectiveness of it and in terms of like the inversion of everything like i think my favorite example is the uh is the map so like israel will often point to a map of the entire MENA region, like Middle East, North Africa. And they'll highlight all of the Arab countries in green and Israel in blue to show that like, oh, Israel is just a tiny strip of land. It's a small being, you know, surrounded by big green Arab monsters that want to kill Israel. you know, surrounded by big green Arab monsters.

They want to kill Israel. Like that Hezbollah map will like often include the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in green as well. And it's a way to frame the West Bank and Gaza as not just being like this, you know, particular thing. They will be like, no, these are part of the giant invading arab green monster because what they're trying to do is show the power imbalance is being completely inverted from the reality here you know and anyone anyone who knows you know or anyone who's like watched the news knows that it's ridiculously false to claim that israel is somehow the less powerful agent here.

You don't have to have a PhD to plainly see the disproportionate power imbalance. There's Israel, a modern, well-armed military, cutting-edge technology, backing and funding of the world's most powerful state most powerful superpower the united states and then there is hamas that doesn't make hamas the good guys or whatever i'm saying it's just a clear indication of the power imbalance you know there is a clear power imbalance and i think like to what you were saying the last hundred plus days have made it perfectly clear that for all the talk of like the arab states supporting palestinians like it's clear israel could literally genocide palestinians in broad daylight and the arab states would do nothing

there is no giant arab green monster that is protecting the palestinian like the palestinians only arab comrades right now are the houthis in Yemen and Hezbollah in Lebanon, both of which are non-government militant organizations. They are not like, it is not the state of Yemen who is supporting the Palestinians. It's not the state of Lebanon. It is these militant states within states pretty much.

And yeah. So it's like, you have to remember when Israel claims we're just a small state the size of New Jersey, you know, in a tough neighborhood and trying to make, you know, the West Bank and Gaza look like the spear's tip of an Arab invasion. You have to remember that's not the case. The truth of it is, is is like you want to talk about how small israel is look how small the gaza strip is and that you know alone to like look at that picture to know they are surrounded and to see that there's no way out that i think changes the narrative for people and it's a narrative that the Israelis don't like to show. They don't like to show the West Bank. And, you know, in terms of how it is cut into cantons that are basically everything is surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military.

They took the best agricultural lands for themselves. You know what I mean? Like they really and also i think talking about seeing the gaza on a map it really it's really infuriating to me because i feel like in the last couple of months more people have seen what gaza looks like on a map than ever before and we see how fucking small it is and it's described as being five miles at one point like from the sea to the whatever and it's still not enough for people you know it's yeah to the wall literally to the wall but like it's just even seeing how minuscule it is is still not enough for people to be like oh 30 000 people dying in this little

strip of land we should think about that like right yeah no. No, I mean, no, it is. It is. My point is basically to dispel the idea that like the Hezbollah has been Israel small, therefore deserves support and people standing with it because small, because small, small, scared because baby puppy, there's a little, little, you know, please help. And that visual is just such a,

it's such a gross lie. And, uh, you know, you've anything to make the Palestinians, you know, seem bigger than they are is helpful for israel and that's why they do it you know this is this is a way to invert the victim and the victimizer and it's clear as day

other things that are clear as day these products and services that we're going to be selling so stick around. We'll be right back. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going.

That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic

happens so if you love hearing real inspiring stories from the people you know follow and admire join me every week for post run high it's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all it's light-hearted pretty pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those

responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry

and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere.

Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba.

Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back again. People in the West, by and large, prefer the Israeli explanation. They're fine living in this alternate reality. And people believe it for a variety of reasons. Some people because they were raised to believe it. Some people because they just want to believe it. But I think mostly, most people in the west just don't really care enough about like palestinians to like look into it like they're you know they're just it's one of many

news stories to i think a lot of people it's easy to put in a box and to be honest you know like wouldn't that be nice to be able to compartmentalize like it would for me it would make me way less stressed if i could just not care and that's not to like call out anyone who doesn't care because i do think that it is absolutely human and valid to have some things that you just don't have emotional capacity to care about i think my issue is not whether or not people are um like you know supporting palestine on their social media or whatnot my issue is whether or not they're just going to allow themselves to be manipulated and then end up defending the indefensible because of it like

if you're if you're not going to say nothing don'tbara. That's my, that's my feeling about it. But yeah, you know, people want to put it in a box beyond that. I think there's also no incentive for a lot of people to believe in it. In fact, to even question who are the victims and the victimizers and the whole Israeli Palestine, quote unquote conflict. Like it brings up a dark twisted irony that most people don't even want to entertain you know people don't want to think about that stuff and it also it people worry about whether or not they're going to get in trouble and that brings me to um

another part of this uh speech i found from the middle east policy council about hasbara uh quote it also seeks to actively inculcate canons of political correctness in domestic and foreign media and audiences that will promote self-censorship by them it strives thereby to decrease the willingness of audiences to consider information linked to politically unacceptable viewpoints, individuals, and groups, and to inhibit the circulation of adverse information in social networks. It focuses on limiting the receptivity of audiences to information. So, Hezbar is fucking Orwellian. That is, I think think one of the things that interests me about it a lot is how Orwellian it is. You know, it goes beyond mere branding when the Israeli government and

pro-Israel institutions like so effectively mold the parameters of what is and isn't politically correct, not just like in their own country, in other countries uh in the west like think about the self-censorship that you the listener do around this issue think about the times you wanted to say something but didn't because you didn't know the exact right way to say it you know like how how to put it and like think about the times that you were reading something critical of Israel by someone you trust and agree with. And one sentence or one word or one turn of phrase triggered you into questioning, not just the validity of the thing you were reading, but like the nature of the person who wrote it. Think about your reaction to me saying these things about Israel and about how you felt when Shireen made a lot of these points on some other episode of this podcast, you know,

like think about why that changes things for you. And like, there was a time where I was also uncomfortable and like, I would only feel comfortable hearing criticism and doing criticism of Israel in the presence of other Jews like it had to be in a you know private all Jewish Facebook group or in like in person or through text messages like I was so suspicious of the secret motives of non-Jewish people criticizing Israel, right? Like someone could literally say something that I a hundred percent agreed with, something that I myself had said, and then I would still get this icky feeling from them saying it like, yeah, but why are they saying it? Like, why do you care like that is probably has bar as great a success to relegate

the issue of palestinian human and civil rights to a niche subject that is best talked about in private and only by jews so i mean shireen i know that like for you, you've got, you get shit for this, you know? I do. Yeah. I feel like I'm done qualifying in my real life, especially, and also just like in work,

I'm done qualifying whether or not something I say is, or is not whatever, because I'm, if I'm even entertaining the idea that criticizing israel is anti-semitic that's like feeding the fire i don't want to even bring that into i don't want to associate that religion and of course the state of israel and i feel like the more we have those disclaimers the more it's conflated and i've definitely i mean i've had a lot of anti-Zionist Jewish people on the show, almost, almost to like show people that like, listen to these people with actual experience.

Yes. And, and, and that's not to, it's not to, um, you know, uh,

say you shouldn't. And none of this is me saying like, Hey, you shouldn't listen to anti-Zionist Jews or whatnot, or just like, you know, like, or you shouldn't be

discerning about who you're getting your information for. Cause yeah, there are Nazis who are, you know, wrap themselves in the guise of being anti-Israel or like, you know, anti-occupation or whatnot. None of this is putting down anyone for being discerning or or being careful but it's to say that like hezbollah has quite an effect on even the most conscious of people like making zionism and judaism synonymous and like practically indistinguishable is like one of his bars like greatest achievements presenting jewish support of Israel as monolithic, save for like a few cranks, you know, who are the exception that prove the rule, you know, like non-Jews don't want to criticize Israel because they don't want to upset their Jewish friends or they don't want

to be labeled an anti-Semite, you know, it's like, you know, after the large public outcry about Israel's brutal response to the hamas terrorist attacks of october 7th there was a big push among hasbaris to frame all jews of the world as feeling abandoned by the left and abandoned by their friends you had people like uh brett gelman oh my god from stranger walkingster. I hate him so much. Oh my God. Fucking Wooly Willy over here going on Instagram being like, Hey, fake woke former friends. And like he,

he gave a speech at the like stand with Israel March. That was something like the Jews don't need you like presenting the, you know, the idea of people criticizing Israel or like not wanting at the very least not wanting the uh complete obliteration of palestinians and gaza framing that as like oh well all the jews want that you know like his his whole thing of being like the Jews don't need you as if he and Israel represented all Jews. Like presenting the Jews of the world as a monolith. As if non-Zionist or anti-Zionist Jews don't even exist.

As if we all felt this way. Like you don't want to hate Jews, do you? Of course, if you don't, then you got to let Israel do whatever the hell it wants. You know? I think what really bothers me about him i mean everything bothers me about him uh but like people like him they'll sometimes preface what they're saying with hey i care about palestinians and then continue on their their whatever tirade their zionist bullshit and it's like it's just it really boggles my mind because i think he thinks he's a good person i really think that he believes he's a good person when really he's just a piece of shit

that does not see a huge group of people as human beings yes does not see people as human and this is something that you i think that anyone who's like a self-described liberal or leftist or whatever would be able to easily recognize in any other situation. But it's just, it's clouded in this particular situation because of this conflation, because you are willing to believe that Jews are sort of a, like monolithically agree with Israel. Like they may be like a little bit like liberal Zionists or whatnot, but mostly, you know, they all love Israel. And that is not true.

And it's a way of like, more so it feeds into the continuing conflation. It feeds into this Hezboara that Israel represents all Jews. And, and I am telling you right now, it doesn't, I don't think I'm telling anyone the, something they don't already know. Like, I think people know Zionism is not Judaism.

I think people know. I've said that many times on this podcast. Trust me. Yeah. At this point you should know. Yeah. If you don't know that by now please yes learn it now but like you know jews both inside and outside of israel have a diverse range of views about the

israeli government that's not to say that jews in israel do not for the most part you know support the uh the government at least or support the project of zionism but that is to like to me that's to be expected it's to be expected that it's like fucking 9-11 you know i i it'd be weird to not expect the kind of racist jingoism that that you saw like after 9-11 you know in fucking amer. And I feel like that was the majority of people was that kind of like, like seething anti-Arab hatred. And I'm not excusing it. But what I'm saying is that Jews have a diverse range of views inside and outside of Israel.

And a lot of it includes wanting a ceasefire. And that's why you see it in these jewish organizations that are trying to end the occupation they're trying they are openly critiquing israel that are calling zionism racism you see it and you see it because they uh because we're honestly trying to change this narrative we're trying to stop people from believing this lie that the jewish people are synonymous with the state of israel yeah yeah and i think that's why jewish and i mean i've said this many times as well but jewish anti-zionists are like a very integral part of the movement to liberate palestine because it's again it's not a palestinian issue it's not a muslim. It's not a Muslim issue. It's a very human issue to care about people not being fucking genocided.

Yes. Another thing that's pretty clear is how good the products are that we sell here at Cool Zone. So let's stick around, listen to these ads, and we'll be right back. Hey, guys. I'm Kate Max. ads and we'll be right back. runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real inspiring stories from the people, you know, follow and admire join me every week for post run high. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy,

and very fun. Listen to post run high on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough.

So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba.

He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation.

Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. So I want to say to everyone listening, I understand that the impulse to treat the subject of Israel with more caution and care is rooted in a respect for the Jewish people and a desire to stand firmly against anti-Semitism. And that is a good thing.

that 100% you respecting Jewish people and wanting to stand firmly against anti-Semitism, wanting to fight it with every fiber of your being. You are correct in feeling that way, and I want to encourage it. And I also need you to understand that it's for that very reason that I urge people to speak out about Israel because I believe Israel and there has Boris mouthpieces and the project of political Zionism are inherently anti-Semitic. Um, and not in like the semantic sense, uh,

where it's like Arabs are also Semites. That's an argument I've heard. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about anti-Jewish about anti-Jewish, specifically anti-Jewish. They actively work to create fear amongst diaspora Jews, make us distrust our friends, our neighbors, our co-workers, our fellow Jews even. They tell us that, you know, they jews that unless they support israel they are not real jews you know or they are self-hating jews they use our past traumas against us um they re-traumatize us and manipulate us like it's classic abuser shit it is it is abuse it's it's cult shit too

and uh they even deal in naz revisionism. And it's, it's so important to point this out because you see the way that they, uh, the Israeli government uses the Nazi, you know, accusation in order to do a genocide. I mean, you see constantly, um, a genocide i mean you see constantly um you know in the last three four months videos from the idf showing um you know uh an ipad they found in a teen girl's bedroom and you know they open it up and there's uh the wallpaper of the ipad is uh it's hitler's face and you look at that and you're supposed to go oh my god i can't i can't believe that and you forget to question what the fuck an israeli soldier is doing in a 17 year old girl's bedroom why is it blown up and why is why is he going through her stuff like that you you you stop looking at what is actually happening and you start looking at what the Hasbarists want you to look at.

They want you to see the Hitler thing and go like, oh man, this is a whole society of little Hitlers. And I look at that and I see the way they cynically use that while at the same time, you know, Benjamin Netanyahu has been pushing this line claiming that the Holocaust was essentially the Palestinians idea. new uh israel palestine like a historical narrative that's been pushed about like you know the mufti and is and and hitler meeting up together and being like have you ever thought about killing the jews and hitler was like i never thought about that before that's so smart wow thank you palestinians like total bullshit revising, like trying to do fucking like, I don't know, apologia for literally Hitler is antisemitic. I don't care how you slice it. It is. And, uh, and that's something that the Israeli government deals in. deal in anti-semitism all the time i mean essentially israel tells the world that jews are a third column loyal to israel first and foremost and

tells jews that our home isn't our home they say this to us and you know that due to our traditions and our blood you know we are just merely guests in any other place. Uh, this is like an old racist worldview from a previous century filled with blood and soil fascism, you know? And like, for me, like growing up in a mixed secular family, you know, where I'm like, yeah, I'm like culturally Jewish and I'm ethnically Jewish, but I'm like a blood Jew, you know, where I'm like, yeah, I'm like culturally Jewish, I'm ethnically Jewish, but I'm like a blood Jew essentially, you know, like, and as like the very fact of me having Jewish blood was used by fascists to murder us during the Holocaust. Now under Israel's law of return, that very same Jewish blood is being used by fascists as a passport to allow me to move to Israel and displace an entire Palestinian family if I choose to. Like, you know, being religiously Jewish

doesn't have anything to do with my ability to do this. And my blood is my passport to do apartheid. That's why I choose to talk about this stuff. You know, if you're going to use my blood to make me complicit in crimes, the crimes of your state, then I'm going to have something to fucking say about it. You know? So my final piece of Hasbara has to do with something that has been said over and over again by countless Zionists, including the current president of these United States of America, Joe Biden.

Folks, were there no israel there wouldn't be a jew in the world that was safe the idea that the state of israel alone can keep the jewish people safe tying the fate of the jewish state to the jewish people is a recipe for fucking disaster the jewish people are a nation that has lasted thousands of years nations meaning like a people with a common origin, history, language, culture, customs, and religion, and or religion, you know, it can be any of those things. And for a long, long time, we were one of many stateless nations that existed. And that's not to say that, you know, Israel shouldn't exist or whatever.

But more importantly, what I'm saying is that Jews should exist, whether they happen to be located anywhere, like wherever they are, Jews should exist. The existence of the state of Israel to me is not the question. And that is not what Israel claims to do. They claim to ensure the existence of the Jewish people, but they do not. All they do is try to bolster the existence of their state. And it should not be common thought that the existence of Israel and the existence of Jews are the same thing. As I can personally think of nothing more dangerous for any people than to tie their entire survival to something as impermanent as a fucking state and that is the truth about israel so you know all this to say that uh

i'm a i guess i'm an anarchist now there's's one thing that, you know, getting into the whole Israel-Palestine thing will do to you. It turns you very quickly into someone who believes the existence of states is the problem. Yeah. Yeah. So that's me. That's how I feel about stuff. I'm so glad you did this series for us. Where can people hear you do the same thing, but by yourself with other people? I feel about stuff. I'm so glad you did this series for us.

Where can people hear you do the same thing, but what by yourself with other people, you can, you can hear me do, you know, these talking about Israel and stuff on my new podcast, bad has bar, the world's most moral podcast. It's a,

it's a comedy podcast about hilarious Israeli propaganda that I find, that our listeners find. And I have on my friends like Shireen, I had you on, I had Anna on, I had all sorts of great anti-Zionist Jews and some really amazing Palestinian guests. Or at least by the time this comes out, I'll assume those episodes will have come out. I, you know, I don't know when those are coming out. But anyways, I've only been doing the podcast for a month. And it's, it's been a lot of fun. It's been cathartic. And it's been

hard. And it's definitely been, you know, like caused some stress in my life, because, you know, looking for this content, you have to dig through a lot of really horrific shit so uh yeah check out badass bara or uh you know um check me out met leap jokes on instagram and go to a sacramento punchline march 17th sunday 7 p.m me and my wife my wife regisca fiorentini we're going to be co-headlining there. So get your tickets now. Link in the notes. Yay.

No, thank you so much. I really enjoy your podcast. The most moral podcast, I would say, in the world. For sure. Thank you for, you know, giving me the opportunity to talk about this. And, you know, I promise you that the show, the Badass Bar Show is funny. I swear to God it's funny. You'll enjoy it. It's very cathartic.

You're correct in that. It's very cathartic to just, like, event with your friends and people that think the same things as you, especially if you're surrounded by someone or people that are kind of purposely ignorant or whatever, you know. Yeah. I appreciate it. When you're surrounded by people who don't want to, either don't want to engage with this at all or are mad at you for even partially engaging with it, it's nice to find the people that you know and love and like to joke around with and be like we're we're not crazy right exactly and then we go yeah we're not and then we have a good time exactly yeah check that out and thank you and thank you to everyone at cool zone media yay yeah go follow matt go see matt and uh his uh my crush his wife don't tell her

and yeah they're they're really um doing the work and i really appreciate both of you you guys just being really outspoken uh always thank you and so yeah follow their lead keep talking about palestine there's still a fucking genocide happening and that's the episode all right bye everyone Bye, everyone. Bye. Free Palestine. Free Palestine. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons?

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