It Could Happen Here - How to Break a Union From the Inside: The NFL Players Association, Pt. 2

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

Mia finishes her interview with Yahoo Sports writer Charles McDonald with the disturbing realization that the NFL might have paid a guy to keep the current leadership in power. Cool Zone is nominated for 3 Webby Awards! Submit your votes by April 16th or we'll hunt down your family.   Behind the Bastards - https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/features/experimental-innovation  It Could Happen Here - https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/limited-series-specials/news-politics  Migrating to America - https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/limited-series-specials/documentary    Sources:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/45769802/ex-nflpa-boss-lloyd-howell-strip-club-expenses-sent-investigator https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P42Wq3fmTYg https://youtu.be/SwVNM266nCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjOpA-N24Cc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-dN5xO7rSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon, Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this probe, I'm going to die. Listen to the Sino show on the IHare radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you guys. Get your podcast. Welcome to It Could Happen here, a podcast about the most unhinged union story I have ever covered. I am your host, Mia Wong, and in a moment we will return to my interview with Yahoo Sports

Journalist, Charles McDonald. So if you have not listened to the last episode, you should listen to the last episode so we can get you up to the 2020s in terms of the horrifying, and depressing story of the NFL Players Association's leadership, gradually selling out more and more of their players. And in this episode, we're going to really sort of get down to the brass tax of what's been happening in the 2020s and answering the question,

to what extent has the NFL paid in order to have a pro-management regime installed at the head of the union? a question that is really distressingly, we have good evidence of this. But before we can get to that, we need to talk about one of the other absolutely horrifying things that this union regime has done. And that is the union covering up, as reported by Pablo Torre originally, a report by an arbitration judge about whether or not the independent teams in the NFL, which are supposed to be business. is competing against each other. And I kind of emphasize this enough because this is a major portion of how the NFL's anti-trust exemption is supposed to work, is that these teams are normally competing against each

other, so there is supposed to be a labor market with competition. But this document that the union covered up from an arbitration process they were in is about it has very good evidence of the league actively colluding in order to pay players less. And the union covered it up. So here we go, back to our interview. Let's talk about this collusion thing, because I've been losing my fucking mind about this for a really long time. And I cannot imagine just literally having evidence in your hand

that the owners are colluding against your members. Like, like, these are literally you. Like, this is supposed to be you. And you're just fucking hiding the report. Ew. Okay, so even if you lose the arbitration, the fact that a judge wrote in a legal document that it was beyond the banished bit of a doubt

that Roger Goodell and the 32 owners were colluding. We've seen text messages between the Cardinals owner and the Charter's owner talking about how much to pay Justin Herbert. Lamar Jackson. Yeah. Okay, can we explain the Lowell Jackson situation and, like, explain who Lamar Jackson is for people who don't watch football so they can understand how unhinged this is.

Lamar Jackson is a wizard. It's the best way that I could put it. Lamar Jackson, he is the franchise quarterback for the Baltimore Raymins. And I just think that anyone with the brain could have seen what was going on. Yeah. Right? Like, with this situation. So, so, and even before Deshaun, even before Lamar Jackson,

you have to take it back to Deshawn-Rad from Houston. Oh, God. The one trade we've ever come. covered on this show. Because fuck, holy shit. Dude. Oh, my God. This is what got the dominoes rolling on this stuff.

Where as terrible as Deshaun Watson is as a football player now and obviously as a human being. Yeah. Like, right. When he was in Houston, it feels like a different world. He was the man. Like, he was incredible. Like to the point where the Texans, I think his last year starting there, they went four and 12.

And it was like so obvious. obviously not his fault. Like, in terms of efficiency, like, he was right behind Patrick Mahom to the top of the league. Like, he got an apology from JJ Watt that year saying, like, dude, we wasted an absolutely incredible year from you. And then, you know, the 30 accusations of at best sexual misconduct,

at worst sexual assault in some of those cases. Yeah. It's really hideous shit. Right. So then it gets to a point where he, the testes that they don't want him there. He doesn't want to be there anymore. But you have what looks to be.

be a franchise quarterback in his mid-20s available for any team to have, you know, with the trade. So my team, Sally, the Atlanta Falcons, they thought that they had a deal done for Deshaun Watson. And then the Cleveland Browns came in. And this is where the ownership, you know, feedback kind of gets broken, where Jimmy Haslom breaks the ranks and says, I want this guy on my team so bad. You know, this is why, like, nobody ever hits free agency in the NFL. because this is what it would look like in terms of like when owners actually have to bid against each other

for elite talent. Jimmy Hasam comes in and says, here's five years, $230 million, every single penny will be guaranteed. No stipulations, nothing like that. Which is like not how this works normally. Like no one gets guaranteed contracts.

Right. And because previously, the actual first player to get a fully guaranteed that contract from another team was actually Kirk Cousins with the Vikings when he left Washington. They gave him like a little three year,

I think it was three years, $88 million, fully guaranteed. But still, that ain't five years, $230. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And what the owners were mad about was not that you would seek out someone with the personal background, Deshaun Watson, to represent your franchise. It's that you would pay any NFL player $230 million guaranteed.

Because now that sets a precedent. Yep. Because if you're Lamar Jackson, whose contract was coming to an end at the season after Deshauner and signed this deal. You're like, I didn't touch those women. Yeah. I'm an MVP quarterback. I'm in my 20s.

Why shouldn't I get a fully guaranteed contract? Yep. Right? Which is what he was doing. And the Ravens, they said, okay, fine. Go out into the market. And I felt like I was going insane during this because... Oh, my God.

There were so many arguments from talking heads about why teams shouldn't sign Lamar Jackson. So he was hit with what's called a non-exclusive franchise tag, which means the Ravens, I don't even know how the, how, the idea of the franchise tag existing is another labor elf. Hideously anti-labor practice. Right. So his contract with the Ravens is over.

And they get him with an exclusive franchise tag, which means you will be playing for us next year. You basically have no say in it unless we remove this. Or, you know, we work out a trade with somebody else. But you cannot go negotiate with anyone else, even though your contract has expired. And to be quote unquote fair, like the payment is a average of the top five, you know, yearly salaries of the position you play.

So you will get paid like, you know, a top five player for one year at your position. It really only goes to to mostly valuable players that they're trying to extend. But they hit them with a non-exclusive franchise tag, which means they have right of first refusal on if another team offers Lamar Jackson a contract. And that team would owe the Ravens two first round picks in order to sign Lamar Jackson. So, dude, Deshaun Watson just went for three. Yeah. And this rule is legally mandated.

Yeah. That is two first round picks. And I'm sure, you know, the Ravens would probably ask for a little stuff beyond that. But I only have to give you two first round picks. And I can just sign Lamar Jackson. He's like a generational quarterback. Like, right, right, right. At this point, we're talking about a quarterback who, what, is like 25 years old.

He's the first unanimous. MVP, which he won in his first season as a starter, since Tom Brady. He's one of two players in, like, or, you know, I don't know if it's two, but it's less than five players in the history of the league that have been unanimous MVP. Every single person voted for Lamar Jackson being MVP. And the Raven said, go ahead and negotiate with another team. And no one, no one even brought him in to talk to him. Right. Like, it's unbelievable.

I grew up in Chicago. So, like, I grew up with the Bears and my family are, like, my family are. like a family of Cioxx fans, right? Neither of those two teams have ever had a quarterback who's in the same stratosphere as this guy. Like, this is,

right. These guys never, like, ever come available, ever, ever, ever hit three agency. Never. Ever. And the people, like, they'll bend the rules

to things that aren't written where they'll say, oh, you know, the Ravens will just match. Make them match then. Yeah. That's a competitive advantage for you. Right.

Right. I hate, that my favorite team keeps popped up in this Atlanta. But Arthur Blank, he put his name on it. You guys saying, you know, the Falcons, like, they were trying out, you know, backup quarterback quality guys because after Matt Ryan left. Desmond Ritter, like, Jesus Christ.

Marcus Marriota, dude. And I'm sitting there like, you're telling me that I can sign Lamar Jackson and I got to give up two first round picks for him. Like, dude, pay him 60 million guaranteed every year. He's worth that much. Yeah. And Arthur Blank says, well, you know, Lamar Jackson, he's going to get hurt too much for us to sign him.

So no team signs him, no team even talks to him. So obviously he goes back to the Ravens, doesn't get the fully guaranteed contract that the Sean Watson got. And that kind of put an end to it for a little bit until the power of journalism popped up. Paul Torto does his investigation. Here's about an arbitration hearing about collusion in the NFL. And he gets his hands like on the documents that say that while Lamar Jackson was

going through his free agency basically rejection by 31 teams when he would have been an upgrade for 28 of them, 29 of them? Yeah. At the time? I would throw a number one, like overall rookie quarterback that I just drafted with the first overall pick out the fucking window. Throw away. To get Lamar Jackson. Right. You can be a part of this two first round picks were giving you. Two first round picks plus, you know, at that time, like it may have been like Kyle Murray or something like that. Yeah. Take him. Like it's, it's unbelievable. Like, I, I cannot. He literally, like, the game of football is fundamentally a different game now.

He did it was when Lamar Jackson started playing because of him. And it's just like, he didn't take him. His influence on the NFL is so strong that we don't really do the black quarterback talking points anymore. Yeah. Because the league was like, oh, we can't let that happen again. Like when Lamar Jackson felt the 32 and everyone's talking about those, he needs to play a different position. And in year two, he wins an MVP. Yeah.

And the year after, he signs his deal with the Raven. he wins his second MVP. Like that kind of cool the fans. Like when you get to see guys like Kim Ward going first overall or even Kyle Murray going first overall and there's no talk about how smart they are as players. Like that's his influence directly. His success contributes to that.

Like he is a Hall of Fame. It kind of gives me chills. Think about what he's accomplished concerning what has been stacked against him. Yeah. Like he is such an important figure for this era of football and really just the whole league like on the field and off the field, like, what he means, like, culturally in society for, like,

for the chances that black men can get to play a position that deemed, like, they were deemed not to play smart enough because he was so good that they said, we can't look that stupid again. Yeah. This player was available. This player was available in his athletic prime. Every team could have drafted him. Every single team in the league could have drafted him, and they fucking didn't.

The Ravens passed on him. It's like, he was not even the first Ravens draft pick that year. No. They drafted Haydenhurst, 25 overall, before they drafted Lamar Jackson. Every single team passed on him. Everyone. And he's won the M&P. He's one of 11 players in the history of the NFL to win two MVPs.

Every other player that has won two of more MVPs is either a Hall of Famer or actively playing. Aaron Rogers and Pat Mahomes. That's it. Like this guy is a Hall of Famer already. And he should have won a third, by the way. Right. He should have won a third. But either way.

Like a near identical, like statistical tie for like a third one. So. Yeah. He's first, he's the three-time first team up pro. He's going to be a Hall of. family. And the fact that nobody called him in to say, what would it take? Like, what kind of contract

are you looking for? That, that's where I was like something, something is so obviously not right here. The Colts traded two first round picks for a quarterback. Like, yes, right, precisely. Precisely. And like, they're starting a guy who broke his leg and then

also sprinted, they were his Achilles like, two years later, I just. Do it. Jalen Ramsey went for two first round picks. Yeah. And he's a great play, but he's a cornerback. You know, it's not even the same thing. This is the most important position in sports. Right. A first ballot Hall of Famer was on the market in his prime. Yeah. And nobody talked to him about a contract except the team that owned,

that, you know, owned like the rights of first refusal. And it was so frustrating to see, like, my colleagues in the media say, oh, you know, the bands were just going to match. That's so disingenuous. That's so disingenuous. Because you're stripping Lamar, like, of his agency as a player. One, like, he's better than every other quarterback that just about. any team has. It'll be such a severe upgrade. And you're also just like holding the line for what?

You're not getting a cut of that money. Why are you lying for these people like that? Yeah. But Pablo, you know, Paula took back in his reporting, he found out that a judge agreed with the union that the players were being colluded against, like actively.

Like, there's text messages. And J.C. Treter and Lloyd Howell, they hid this from the union. Bro, if you're a union and you have, even if you lose arbitration, you have, A physical note from a judge that says, do you reclute against?

Take your megaphone to the top of the tallest mountain in the world and talk about this. Apply some pressure. Now, like, this is where I started to get curious. Like, why? Why did this happen? Because that part, we still don't have enough information on. Like, I need to know, like, how much, like,

if there's a kickback going back to J.C. treter. Yeah. How much is it? And we do know that Lloyd Howell, part of the reason, also part of the reason why he was fired or had to resign was because he, along with he along with former former MLBPA union leader

Tony White, who was recently fired for banging his brother's wife who he hired to work at the MLU. Oh my fucking God. Yeah. The NFLPA is so lucky that the MLBPA had a scandal that's almost as embarrassing

to the Trump Club. I mean, maybe more. But Lloyd Howell and Tony White they were working together as part of an eight-man group of like union, parasites, like at the top of the corporate ladder in America, to siphon money away from the union into their own personal pockets.

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You related to the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that. That's so funny. So come home each night, each morning. Say you love me. You know I...

So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to playing along on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We know for a fact. Lloyd and Tony White, who's the baseball union head was because he no longer has his job

or family. It's a truth. Yeah, bad thing for him, but fucking you, You brought this upon yourself. Right. He can't go home for Christmas. Like, he's done.

They were part of a small group that was siphing money away from union funds to line their own pockets. That is verified. They've been sued for that. So what else is going on here? Yeah. What is the incentivization for J.C. Treader to push someone like that through? And then the backside is J.C.'s brain, as the union president expires, well,

Lloyd House the executive director. And Lloyd makes a new cushy role for JC as like, you know, I don't remember what the role was called, but like, is like chief strategy or something? Yes, chief strategy officer. So something that paid him like $3 million a year, very handsomely. Unfortunately, Lloyd was off, you know, blowing money at the strip club. And J.C. was kind of running like the actual day to day things because he's the one

that has a connection to players, right? And now we've gone through a point where after Gene Upshaw dies, The two executive directors who followed him as, you know, the head of union, Damar Smith and Lloyd Howell, neither of those guys were NFL players. So you can understand how players might feel we've gotten a little bit too far from our roots. Like we don't have guys who are from our background interested in, you know, players and what we go through, which leads back to J.C. Tredder, who played for the Packers, played for the Browns.

Yeah. At his peak, man, he was a good player. Like, I'm not going to take that away from. Like, he was a good starting center on a lot of good offensive lines in Cleveland that didn't win any games. No. But they, they block the hell out of people, man. Like, like, when you go back, you look at some of those lines, like, they had Joe

Thomas and Alex Mack and Mitchell Schwartz, Joe Pettonio. Like, they had some stars that were out there winning four or five games a year. So Lloyd Howell resigns in a mess. J.C. is still the chief strategy offers to the NFLPA. I think he had resigned. eventually from there. But yes, yes, yes. After Lloyd Hal resigns,

J.C. resigns too. So now we're up to last summer, summer 2025. Yeah. Eight months ago, right? It's March 27. Eight months ago, J.C. Treter resigns from

the chief strategy officer role that was cut out for him and says, he said in an interview to my friend Jonathan Jones, I have no interest in any leadership roles in the union moving forward.

He said, I have given this my all. I've given this everything I had. I'm going to go home and be a family man. I have no interest in this at all. And it seemed like it until this month when J.C. Pows back up as one of the finalists for the new executive director role. That's what was previously left by Lloyd Howe.

Now, this is where it's murky. I don't know, like, all the processes that go on with, like, how they decide, like, who's going to, you know, do what? Like, apparently they have 300 candidates. it will have down the three. I don't know what's going on in the past couple of weeks. They don't know how all this was selected. But they are presented with three finalists for the executive director role to vote on.

J.C. Tredder, who has popped up out of nowhere, then the commissioner of the American Athletic Conference. So, like, Temple and, you know, those East Coast schools, like James Madison or whatever, like, he's overseeing that. It's like a college football commissioner. Yeah, like, college football, college football commissioner. Like, he's talking to, like, the president of Rice University about, like, scheduling games

against Toledo or some shit. Christ. Right. So you have J.C. Treter, the American Conference commissioner. Not even like the ACC, the AACC, right? Big Cass conference.

It used to be the Big East. Like, they're stolen Big East Fowler. This guy was running against J.C. treter. And also, the third was a former Hollywood Union exec. who didn't really seem to be that interested in the role in the first place. So we get down to the election day and we find out the American Conference Commissioner drops out. Oh, wow.

On election day, he dropped out. Right? Okay. So now we're dealing with, we've had two executive directors back-to-back, DeMore Smith, Lord's Howe, not football players, didn't go well. J.C. Trener was a part of that. But he played football, right? So you see the J.C. Treter or this Hollywood guy who doesn't give a crap.

I forget his name, but his background wasn't like always the cleanest in terms of, you know, actually getting things done in terms of, you know, being pro labor all the time. Ultimately, as fucked up as it is, that's an easy choice if you're a player. These are my two options. I'm going to take the guy who at least has played football. So you had J.C. Treter, who's now back as the executive director, eight months after he said he had no interest in being any type of union leadership. And like somehow this whole process has been like stage managed. He's like back again. Right.

But to me, this linchpin right here is actually the most fascinating part of what's happened. And this is where like if you listen to this podcast, it probably won't sound like the conspiracy. If you're not thinking about labor relations in America, it might sound like conspiracy to you. But J.C. Tredder, when he was the president, like his right-hand man, I think it was like the vice president, was jailing Reeves' maven or was very important. He was a special team's linebacker for the lines for a long time. He became the union president after J.C. Tredder left and became like the chief strategy officer. So he basically followed in J.C. treter's footsteps as the union president.

So, you know, while all this shady stuff's going on, Jalen and Reeves Maven is an underrated part as, you know, the new union president. Because Lloyd was executive director. J.C. had this new role as the chief strategy officer. But Jalen Reams' Maben is sitting there as the president. of the union. So obviously, he is involved in this somehow, right? Like, he is involved with, like, the cover up for the players. Yeah. Yeah, not being as aggressive as you should be towards ownership in terms of gave up a 17th game, dog. Like, that's insane. And you've got nothing back for it. Yeah. So there's a clock, though, in terms of how long you can, like, be removed from being a

player and still be the NFLPA president. And last year, Jail and Reel and maybe he had been, he'd been out of the league. So his clock was almost up. I think it's within, uh, yes, two years, two years. Uh, so if you follow the league, you're not signing a contract, like, no one's pursuing you. Like, you kind of just get filed as retired, even if you're not, even if you haven't come out and say, like, I'm retired. Like, there's a bunch of players that never said, I'm retired, but no way, nobody signed them. Like, T.Y. Hilden, T. Yilden just functionally retired, like, two weeks ago. He hasn't played in, like, five years, okay? But he, he, he has been placed in a retired file. Yeah. In the NFL as far as just, like, labeling things go. And if you are

retired. If you are labels retired, you can't be the NFLPA present. Makes good, perfect sense. So, okay, this does not sound crazy to probably the people who listen to this podcast, right? If you are one of 32 owners, right, and you have this power structure of an organization that you negotiate against, the NFLPA, this power structure is very friendly towards you. You know, they've given you a lot over the past 15 years since you ripped up the 2006 CBA. Yeah. How much would you pay to keep that in place? Right? How much would you pay to keep it in place?

And I haven't seen many people talking about this part of it, but the Chicago Bears signed Jalen Reeves-Maybin this fall. Oh, my God. Right? To a veteran deal. When I looked it up, I think he played like 40 special team snaps for them this season. But that resets his clock. Yeah. That resets his clock to be.

president of the union. So now we get to the end of the season. Yep. Jailer Rie Vavin runs again to be president. I'm not sure anybody ran against him. No one's told us who the other candidates were. Yep. If there were other candidates. And now he's the president of the union again after he was almost barred from it. Does any bear share remember like any play? The Jailen Ries may have made. No, right. Like, I watched every game of that team. Actually, I guess there were like two that I missed for those on planes. But like, no.

Okay, but so think about it from this respect. If you are an owner and you have this power structure that is generating billions, capital B, billions of dollars back in your direction, away from the people that they represent, would it be worth $500,000? Keep that going? And a little roster. spot at the bottom? Absolutely.

Now, that's the part that I haven't seen people, you know, bring up as much because we get stuck on Treter, but Treter's right hand, man, was almost ineligible to be the president of the NFLPA. Yeah. And he pops up in this little role when it looks like his career's over. Like, they signed him late

in the season to play special teams. Yeah. You just bump with someone from the practice squad to go do that. Because because you want guys that you've already develop the relationship, guys you've started you started training, working with to get those reps. Some outside guy, like, coming in to play special teams that, you know, that's, it's unnecessary. It's been out of the lead, too. Like, yeah, there's no reason to do it.

Unless you as a power structure are interested in him having eligibility to keep funneling you money at expense of the players. Yeah. And I've really changed my tune, like, on players not carrying over the past month, just from talking to guys, like, because I used to cover the Jets and the Giants, like for a newspaper here in New York City, like, this is what I've done for the past 10 years. I've met a lot of guys. They are, like, curious. Because you're like, what is this mechanism?

Yeah. That is allowing you guys to operate with so much secrecy where you have J.C. Treader. I mean, shout out to like the people who ran against them or were there for a minute, but functionally, like, practically, he ran unopposed for the executive director role. And so you would have done to, from 300. candidates to three. Yeah.

And one of them is J.C. Tratter. And the other is the commissioner of like the sixth most important college football conference in the country. And then a Hollywood movie, like, you need an exact guy? I mean, that's, that's functionally unopposed. And then with Jalen Reed-Labin, we don't even know if anyone ran against him. So these guys are just walking back into power. Yep.

And the question that I and players and other journalists have, what is that meant? mechanism that is operating in the shadows that is allowing this to happen and how much is it worth? Because now we're coming up on a new CBA negotiation where they're probably going to get an 18th game. An 18th game. You have gone from in 20 years, you've gone from a spot where you had revenue majority, even if it wasn't a 60%. It was 52, 53. That's better than 47.

And the literal death of Gene Upshaw, it, like, killed this union in a way that I don't know if it's recoverable from. Because you've sent a precedent over two CBAs, likely to be three, that you will give up anything. For what, though? Yeah, for nothing. But for what? Like, Roger Goodell should never be coming out insane. I'm glad that J.C. Treader was named the executive. Like, J.C. Treader should be a pain in his ass, man.

And it just, it's sad to me. Like, as someone like who, like, I love the sport so much. And to see, like, what's happening to the union, it's horrible because ultimately, like, we're so short-sighted that, you know, what's happening from me, like, right now or today, it's the only thing that matters. But, like, there's going to be real consequences for these guys for decades. And, man, like, my first year covering the Jets and the Giants for the Daily News up here in New York was 2019. and the Jets had a legends day,

like we're a bunch of guys that came back and they were on it during halftime. It's what crappy teams do when you have nothing good to talk about Ben. Like you talk about the good old days, right? Yeah. But, you know, these guys, they come up and they're hanging out with us in the press box

before they went down on the field of the halftime. These are, like, 50-year-old men, like on canes and stuff like that. Like, my dad's 60, and he still shoots hoops sometimes, like, at the gym. Yeah. These are, like, 45, 50-year-old men that can't walk without assistance that are, like, they walk around, like, and they're forgetting, like, oh, what I just turn this corner to do, like, all the time. Like, you're talking to them and you have to keep reminding, like, refresh them on what we were talking about as if it's like chat GPT, you know, like, and it's sad.

But when you see, like, the material restrictions that these guys have in their own lives post-playing, and these guys, like, they're not all rich. Like, they're just normal people. It's sad that this union has capitulated to the owners for such a violent job. Yeah. And sure, like, you can say, like, no one's telling you be a football player, but that's the only option a lot of these guys have, like, to go be football players and to go put their body on the line just so their family can live in comfort for a few years. Oh, it's sad. Yeah, it's like it's the actual poverty draft. It hits way, way, way more people than the military does, like significantly more.

And I think it's something that's really, really, really badly understood on the left because, like, people on the left had not to care about sports stuff. but it's like football is a structural part of the entire American economy. It's a structural part of the entire American educational system. Like half of the educational system is designed to funnel people into this sport specifically so these people can make fucking money off of it. Yes. And that stuff shapes everything. And I understand like why lefties, like they don't care about sports.

Like I get it. But if the NFL were to cease existing tomorrow, that would be like a major collapse within the U.S. economy. Yeah. Like, I'm not joking. Basically, everything you watch, especially now, is subsidized by some NFL game, right? Like, yeah. That's why these companies exist. If you go back every single year and you look at the top 100 most watched TV shows of the year,

97 of them will be NFL games. And you'll have, like, two comfortable games in, like, the Macy's Thanksgiving parade. Yeah, maybe, like, maybe the World Series. Right, maybe the World Series. Right. Maybe the Oscars can't see, like maybe the Oscars versus like Jets bills, like week 12 that's not close.

Yeah, like they're all shit on a Thursday night. Like, right, but that's how big this is. And I, I would implore people to not say, hey, who cares about this? It's important. And also like, there's also just like clear, like you look at a game. There's clear racial divides.

Yeah. And who has to play this game and who doesn't have to play this game? There are studies that show that, like, Like, upwards of 80% of black boys who play sports want to be professional athletes. I mean, because that's, that's it really. Like, it's that. Yeah. Or I'm going to go, dude, I don't fucking know.

And those are really your options. And that's why I say, like, I've used the NFL to kind of figure out my way, like, through, you know, how I feel about things. Because there's such real, like, desperation from these people to get out. And the problem, like, also with the union is, like, let's say, like, Two, some of these guys come from nothing. Like, the fact that they could figure out a way to get to a bus that would take them to a school where they could play football as like a major accomplishment in their own.

And the fact that you can go from that to making $300,000 in a year at 21, that will distort you as well because now you've made such an extreme jump so fast. Probably going to be a little bit complacent. You might not be thinking about what's next because, and I say this for like a 21-year-old person, you spent the last 20 years of your life fucking fighting. Like, just to get to the next day. I remember one of the craziest things with back in the day, like, when Laramie

Thompson was at Ole Miss, like back when they got busted before the N.I.L. stuff going out, there's this text thread between Laramie Monsel's O'Line Coach and his mom saying, like, hey, like, can you send money for the light bill this month? Yeah. He's a five-star starter. Yeah. On your team that is generating millions of dollars. Yep.

And you could get in trouble for sending his mom, like, $200 to keep the lights on. Yeah. You know, there's a, there's a real. like systemic, like obvious extraction of value from these black men. And yeah, once it's over, they say good luck, yeah, fucks, until, you know, we had like the CTE lawsuit where they, they have to pay out billions of dollars. But ultimately, you just kind of come in and get discarded, which is why this union is so important. Yeah.

And the fact that you can be J.C. Trattery. Use the trust that you have earned through your own blood, blood, sweat, and tears of being an NFL player and good enough to stand on your own as like a almost, almost, you know, It's a decade-long NFL started. The fact that you would use that and turn around and, like, just capitulate to owners, like, that's scum. Hideous. It's scum.

And it's sad. And just everyone here deserves better except for the people at top. Yeah. And there needs to be some answers on why are you guys doing this? They're not doing it for no reason. There has to be something there. That's the part that we don't know. Canadian women are looking for more.

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You know how you... So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to playing along on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. One thing I want to kind of go back to you for a second is like how they're were able to do this. I don't know the exact mechanisms of how they specifically have been able to do this, because every union is structured, like, kind of differently. But this is something that's actually, unfortunately, like, pretty common in even sort of like progressive unions where, you know, like we've had people on this show a few times who were trying to dislodge this clique that used to run. Actually, I'm not sure if they're still running it. But they used to run the big nurses union.

like a huge portion of the country's nurses. And so, okay, one of the problems here is that, like, union elections, even if they're well publicized, even if you were trying to get everyone to vote, have really, really low turnout. Members, unless they're really engaged, do not pay attention to it. Yeah. And that's not even really engaged in the sense of engaged in union activities because even most people who, like, are really engaged in, like, I want to go on strike or, like, I'm going to show up to this, like, contract session, aren't voting in the union elections

because no one knows it's happening. No one knows who any of the candidates are. It's like, it's an even more extreme version of the problem with like no one voting in regular elections. And so with a really small amount of votes, you can just get you and your faction installed for generations. Right. Like there are admin caucuses in a whole bunch of unions. Like, and we're talking about like the Teamsters. And like unions on that scale were like, there was a huge deal when the Teamsters like finally ran out their admin caucus.

But like these people are in power for half a century. People are in power for, like, generations of these guys are able to stay in these unions, and they're able to do it because it's really, really easy to control union elections, especially once you're in power. And this is something like I've talked about on this fucking show. Like, I've seen union staffers whose job it is to do organizing

get fired for telling their own members to read a contract they were being asked to vote on because that was considered a threat to the power base, right? And the problem is that once you're running the union, you control the jobs of all of the staff beneath you. And one of the things that actually came out in Pablo Torres reporting is that they offered anyone who'd been at the unit for more than seven years a buyout.

And so, you know, you can watch them do, like, they're doing a systemic purge of all of this stuff. And then, like, the moment Shredder is, like, leading the search, right? He's able to use his position, like, his very specific position in this bureaucracy, like, as the president of the union, to, like, go change the terms of the search so that it's no secret.

And you can just keep using whatever, position you take over gives you a little bit more sort of bureaucratic power that you can use to rat fuck people. And once they're in, it's like, it is possible to dislodge them. Like, I mean, this is something that happened with the UAW in the last, like, that was 2020, 2023 they got in. And they dislodge an admin caucus that had been in power and like doing similar shit to this for like decades and decades and decades. And so it is possible for, you know, reform caucuses inside a union to organize. and drive the leadership out.

But it's really hard. And the moment you start doing that, like every single person who's anyway affiliated with you will get targeted for retaliation by the union. Yes, that's what has happened with J.C. Treter.

Again, Pablo, Tori, he released an interview two weeks ago with, you know, a longtime security officer who was basically one of the people who was like, hey, yeah, what's going on here

with this J.C. Tredder and Lloyd Howl stuff. And they fired him for that. Like, The union fired the security guy who've been working, like, he's been working there since, like, Dean Upshire I was working there. So he's part of the old guard that is there for, like, the material, like, improvement of players' lives, like,

as far as they can take it without, you know, dealing with the real bounds of, like, we got to kind of get this number before the season or our worker base is going to be harmed. Like, those guys don't really work there anymore. Yeah. Someone like Dominic Foxworth is, he's on TV now, you know? And I know, like, he cares a lot about this, but he's off doing different things.

And I think another thing that that's tough, like when you look back at like, okay, who is playing football? These are ultimately young men who like, they enter this union without any knowledge of like how unions work. Like what are the finances behind any of this? You're geared to take like your high school free time

and your college free time, especially now that these colleges are throwing out cash. Like you are honed to care about football. and get football done. And, you know, once we get to college, like, we'll see what it is. Hopefully, you can get your degree and keep it moving. But most of the time, like, these guys, they don't know what any of this stuff is. So you have, like, this very unformed, you know, labor force that's getting churned out two,

three years at a time. It would probably be pretty easy, to create a blockade of knowledge when the people who could be asking you about this are going to be irrelevant if you just hold the lines for a year. You know, it's sad. The other thing about this, right, is that. these guys don't have even the basic incentive that even like the UAW and their most entrenched had, which is like, if you fuck this up enough, there won't be a union.

But these guys, there's always going to be something called the NFL Players Association, right? Because the NFL needs it for cover, which means they don't even have to do the minimal organizing work or even the minimal like pretending to actually fight for the people who are supposed to be the union because it doesn't matter to them. Like, why the fuck would they try to onboard new people, like, into the union and, like, get them involved with it? Like, why do they care? They can just fucking go home and, like, cash their checks and get whatever the fuck benefits are getting from the league for doing this shit.

Yeah. Yeah. I want to know those benefits are? I just want to know. Yep. Me too. I would love. Like, really, because when it gets down to, like, how much is your soul worth, man?

Yeah. Like, J.C. is one of those guys, ultimately, who has made enough money playing football where he doesn't have to do this. Yeah. You know, he doesn't have to go around like this. Like, it's, it's a little baffling in that sense. Like, and I know that like, I guess something like I guess I struggle sometimes like, why are you all doing this fucking shit? Like, why?

Like, it's really like that, like a couple more bucks really means that much to you. Like, you're really willing to sell out all these people? Yeah. The answer is yes. Yep. The answer is yes. Personally, I can't reconcile that. Yeah.

It's abhorrent. It's terrible. But it's just the truth of the matter. So hopefully they can figure out a way. way to kind of dismantle this, but like, man, even the fact that, like, man, you got like the bears, they signed Jalen Reeves Maven. All of a sudden, like, his clock's back and now you have the same power structure as you hit another landmark where you're going to be negotiating for 18 games.

That's a tough thing. Top all over, man. That's a tough thing to get past. It's really difficult. Yeah. Eat at Arby's. Actually, don't do that. Arby's not good.

No, it's just stuck. Well, I think that's a decent point to sort of end on unless you have any, yeah, do you have anything else so you want to make sure people know about this whole thing? I would say like, if you're not watching football, you should. It's a great game. I, look, I say this as someone, football has, like, materially harmed me. Like, my back is messed up. I've had two hernia dis my back since I was 17.

I turned 32 this year. It's like half my life, you know? Would I do it again? Fuck. Yeah. In a heartbeat? I don't know. I don't know. And like this is where like my, my like the people who know me, they're like, man, you're wired a little differently. But I think that's standard for football players.

Like it's a really complicated relationship. But like all my best friends are still like football related in some way, whether it's college or journalism now or, you know, going back to high school back the day. Like I still talk to so many people that I played football with. Like I'm watching like I'm the guy watching these like crappy like division. in two games, like, on a Friday night. It's awesome. So, like, you know, you should check out Lamar Jackson. Like, just go on YouTube, just look up a highlight. And then, uh... He's great.

It's just wild. Like... You know, when you, like, watch football or really any of these sports, like, they are just inescapable. I hate to even say microcosms of, like, American society. Because, like, this is, this is American society. Like, when you just look on the flu, influence, that football has, like, the economy as a whole and the way that people who are less fortunate are

able to be extracted and run into the ground and forgotten even by the people who are supposed to protect them. Yeah. I think that's something that we see here, just about every arena of American life. So I would just implore some of our fellow lefties, you know, don't be the, who cares about sports? Because whether you know about it, sports is interacting and directly impacting your life in this country. every single day.

And I think it's important to kind of care about some of the labor practices that are going on even if, you know, the labor practices are around. Lamar Jackson didn't pay, you know,

$60 million a year over $50 million a year. But it's still important. Yeah, you know, and I think there's two, there's two points I can make there. One is that like, yeah, I don't know.

Like, it was, it was the fucking, like, trans women in college sports thing was like one of the two avenues through which like, oh, wait, hold on. A bunch of us just don't have fucking rights now. Yeah.

And, you know, and like, and that kind of like cultural stuff that comes out of places that we're just not usually. Right, right. And just to tack on to that, as we've seen over, you know, the past few months and as many endangered and misrepresented and punched down communities have said to y'all forever, and I say this is a black person, if they do it to us, you will do it. it to you at some point. Yep. Yep. Yep.

It's just sad that like we've gotten to the point where, you know, you've been fighting and screaming for so long. Like, bro, could you just turn your head this way and just look? Yeah. You see, like, bro, like, we're the same, man. We're all just humans out here trying to make it. That thought process is just so violently opposed by the powers it be. And it's just so ingrained in our society that, like certain people have to get stepped on that you will let yourself get stepped on. And now, shit, we got. videos of, you know, people getting executed in the street in Minneapolis and what's happened?

Nothing. Just like every other police shooting, you know, of a black person or a trans person getting killed. Like, nothing happened. And nothing keeps happening. And ultimately, we get to a point where that's just the norm. So, shit, there's a lot of stuff to fight. But, you can even see, like, how the NFL union has kind of followed that same, like, deterioration.

Yep. Shit. You know, you go back to the 2011 CBA, you threw the rookies. under the bus. And then what the owners do? They came and took your money too. Yep. Right? And then when it came down to, you know, the 2020, CBA, you guys have set such a precedent

of us running your pockets that we will set the hard, non-negotiable stance of an extra football game and you will capitulate. That's everywhere, man. That is everywhere in the corporate structure and life of America. So, yeah. Sports inescapable. Check out Lamar Jackson

on Sundays. It's good stuff. Yeah. I think I think the one last thing I want to say is that, you know, the reform caucus taking over the UAW was something that was seen as impossible. Like, it was like literally, I mean, like, every union has a reform caucus. They normally lose every single time. And then one day they won. And it, like, completely changed what the labor movement in America is. And, you know, the thing, the thing about organizing reform caucuses is that I know the people who organize these things, like, they're just random people.

Yeah. Like, anyone can do it. this. This is not something that requires like, you know, an incredibly specialized skill set. You can just do it. And as much like actual teenagers do this shit. Watching people and how tenaciously they could fight and watching them win, that's how I get out of bed in the morning is, I have seen the hope in how how people can fight fights that are just unwinnable, that are so unfathomable that most people don't even think there's a point in fighting it. And then one day they win. Yeah. And maybe one day.

I mean, even if you just think about the basis of the NFL PA, because now it's an antitrust blocker, right? That's what it is now. But the roots of it. Yeah. They were guys trying to get rights for, they're trying to get paid for the amount of time that they put into this job. One of the the base, like, complaints is when the league was smaller and you had like kind of other leagues, you know, that are defunct now, or were absorbed by like the AFC or the NFC before it all emerged the NFL. One of the basis is was the NFL owners would ban you if you played in another league. Like if you spent any time playing another league, they would ban you for five years. Man, that's your whole career. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And I don't know if this made the show,

if we're talking about before the show, but one of the things that got the NFLPA like organized in the 50s was guys were doing training camp and preseason games for free. They weren't getting paid for it. But these are just regular men who are just like, fuck it, I'm tired of this. And sadly, it's been co-opted into something that does not represent what it was before. But, you know, this stuff is started by regular as people who are saying, fuck it, I'm tired of this. We've got to make a change.

Yeah. And I think on that note, where can people find your work? Yeah, you can find me on Blue Sky, forverts. You can find me on Yahoo Sports, Football 3-0-1 podcast. I'm trying to be found a little bit less these days. That's so reasonable. The Blue Sky is pretty fine for the most part. Yeah, you know, just a little less.

I get it. There's a reason I'm not putting my handle in here. Yeah. But I will say, this is not necessarily a friendly blue sky account. I'm not one of those guys who's just going to let you pop off. We do clap back around here. So tread lightly. It rocks. We do in fact love to see. Yeah. It Could Happen here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia. Or check us out on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.

I'm Lori Siegel, and this is Mostly Human, a tech podcast through a human lens. This week, an interview with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to the products we put out in the world. An in-depth conversation with a man who's shaping our future. My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty. host of the On Purpose podcast, my latest episode is with Noah Kahn, the singer-songwriter

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That's so funny. Share each day with me each night, each morning. Listen to Nora Jones is playing along on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Cino Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon, Danny Trail, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic. And without this probe, I'm going to die.

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