It Could Happen Here - How To Build A Revolution: Myanmar, Part 1

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

Part 1 of a 5 part series on Myanmar’s spring revolution. James and Robert document the first year of Myanmar’s revolution through the stories of its participants” Music for this series was provided by Rebel Riot, check out their Bandcamp here https://therebelriot.bandcamp.com/album/one-daySee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by

an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking musica, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia,

and that's a song that only Nuestra Gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2020, millions of Americans took to the streets to protest police violence. They were met with police violence on a massive scale. Shootings, vehicle attacks, and assassinations occurred alongside these protests, often in defense of the police. And in total, at least 25 Americans died. We now know that President Trump repeatedly urged General Mark Milley

to deploy U.S. military forces to crack down violently on demonstrations. Milley claims that Trump told him to have his soldiers crack skulls, beat the fuck out of, and just shoot protesters. In the end, we were all lucky. Military leaders, including General Milley, resisted calls to use their men to suppress domestic dissent. National Guard were called in to police several major cities, but in many cases, their behavior was tame compared to the militarized police

who more reliably shot and beat protesters. For millions of Americans, 2020 was their first exposure to the violence the state will do to avoid change. And then, Trump lost the election. He and his followers tried to carry out a coup but failed, for now. And millions of Americans who'd taken to the streets mostly went back to their lives. Some were satisfied justice had been done. Others were furious to have stopped short

of instituting real change. But at the end of the day, business went on as usual. A version of normal prevailed. In 2021, the military of Myanmar, known as the Tatmadaw, overthrew the elected government in a coup. Hundreds of thousands of citizens, most of them young Jinzi and millennial men and women, took to the streets. Police responded with tear gas, water cannons, and eventually bullets. The international community expressed its horror at the brutality of the Tatmadaw. But that's all they did. Over the course of several months, the military pushed protesters mostly out of the cities, and a protest movement against the military coup turned into a civil war. Now those same protesters, mostly kids who wanted nothing more than a normal

life, have become revolutionaries. With homemade guns, 3D-printed rockets, and stolen rifles, they battle the Tatmadaw. Some of them fight in the jungles, some of them fight in the cities, and some of them fight on the internet. This is their story. We're sitting in a large suburban home in Mysot, Thailand, a small city on the border of Myanmar. The boys singing and playing music around us range in age from 17 to 22. Their existence in Thailand is a crime. If they are caught here, they'll be forced to cross the border into Myanmar, whose government executed their friends and sold the organs for profit.

But tonight, they're playing music. We're drinking beer. Later, James Stout and I will play pool with them and get our asses just catastrophically wrecked. We met Andy, age 22 and head of the family, for his Instagram page. That's not his real name, but for obvious reasons, we can't identify him. We first met when I sent him a DM asking if we could buy one of his photos for our first series on Myanmar. He was a bit sceptical, but I tried my best to get him to see we just wanted to give him money and promote his work. Over the next six months or so, we went from talking on the phone, to messaging almost every

day, to Robert and I booking tickets to Thailand, to sitting on the top floor of their house. It used to be his landlord's office, but now it's home to Andy and his partner Sarah. That's also not her real name, because she is a citizen of a Western nation, working in Thailand. it's also not her real name because she's a citizen of a western nation working in Thailand. The boys we talk about are his brothers, his cousin and friends. They live at a small building across the garden and in the daytime they sit under a gazebo and play their guitars. The first night we met Andy and Sarah we sat behind a bar in an unpaved alleyway. We drank beer out of sippy cups because selling beer is still banned under local COVID regulations, but apparently the cops don't check sippy cups. We drank far too much, in fact, and

the next day, I woke up with a headache and a blurry photo of me, Robert, and Andy engaged in a pose which was half hug and half mutual support structure. We walked home, and according to my phone, at some point we took photos of a puppy and in hopefully unrelated incident at some point I started bleeding. It was immediately obvious that Andy needed the chance to blow off some steam. Over the last year and change he has chronicled every stage of the coup and its aftermath. In early videos we see joyous protests, moments of resistance and splendor in the streets of cities like Miawadi. Later, we see violence, death, and guerrilla warfare.

And you didn't have what you would call an easy childhood. Thanks in part to Myanmar's long history of revolutions being crushed by the army, people there, like people everywhere, want to be free and determine their own futures. And so each generation has its own uprising. And each generation has its own massacre. And very little progress to show for it. I was born in 2000. So when I was seven, 2007, there was a revolution. It's called Safran Revolution.

It wasn't like this. It wasn't like what happened now. But there were a lot of people that were involved in it. A lot of people got killed. Andy's mother is Buma, the dominant ethnic group in Myanmar, due to their decades-long control of the military and government. His father is Karin, the ethnic group once used by the British government as soldiers. Since 1949, the Karen have fought a war in the mountains against the Tatmadaw. Their name is often anglicized to be spelled just like the English name Karen, which,

given present internet trends, makes explaining the conflict sometimes awkward. Andy primarily identifies as, and was raised, Buma. His family left after the Saffron Revolution. They did not flee to escape political repression, but because the economy had collapsed. This put them in an awkward position in the camps, which were filled mostly with Karen people who had fled state violence. We weren't refugees, right?

We were more like, how do you say like economic refugees you know we go because not because our village has been burned down and our family has been killed you know so then if we were to go back to yangon we still could find a job we still could find you know um but then for these current people like this place is the only place that they could exist at that moment right and probably still now too so uh yeah so they said that but that education wasn't very good there there's the the life wasn't good you know it wasn't it wasn't it was very bad honestly it was very bad it was a lot of violence a lot of hate a lot of understandable you know like these people have gone through so much shit and so much trauma

that and nothing no one is coming there to fix that so they had a lot of anger they had a lot of problems um but my my mom said yeah we're going back because the education here is very bad and um if you go back to my at least you know if you do like the thing that people do maybe you'll get somewhere yeah in the future. Here, there's no future. That's what she said. So we went back. And I stayed in Myanmar for like four years.

Andy had never been very political. His family was more or less neutral, tending to side with the military more often than not out of a sense of inertia. Myanmar tended to cartwheel between attempts at democracy and military dictatorship. So when the world media celebrated their first democratic elections in 25 years, in 2015, Andy was not particularly excited. Yeah, so, I mean, we did realize that there was a change in the country, right, because we grew up in the military to take your ship. But then when Aung San Suu Kyi took over, there were some changes. The phones got cheaper, the internet got cheaper. And if you look back,

then you can see big, big changes. But the thing is, it was never real democracy. And I think a lot of people in the Western countries thought that it was democracy when Aung San Suu Kyi took over. Aung San Suu Kyi came to prominence during a 1988 uprising against the military, which ended in bloodshed in the streets of Yangon. And she'd been a longtime democratic activist. As Andy noted, Westerners celebrated her election as the first democratic head of state for Myanmar. She even won a Nobel Prize. But the agreement her party had made with the military

gave the generals significant permanent control over the government. But I think most of the people in the country knew it wasn't real democracy because, you know, the military always had 25% seats, 25 seats in the parliament, right? They were always, they were in charge of electricity, all these big things, weapons, army, like the military itself. They are in charge of all these things and they make it very clear. And even with a Nobel Prize, Aung San Suu Kyi did not fight to stop the Tatmadaw from pursuing their decades-long wars against the ethnic armed organizations in the

hills. Nor did she act to stop their ethnic cleansing of the Rohingya people. In fact, she and others in her party didn't even call them Rohingya. They called them Bengali and insisted they were illegally residing in Myanmar, despite mountains of evidence documenting a group by that name living in what is now the Rakhine state. I think most Americans, and Westerners in general, can empathize with the feeling of electing someone who promises change and then getting very little of what you'd expected. I think Aung San Suu Kyi used to be this hope that was like the opposition against the military.

But I think when she got power, she couldn't do all the things that she promised to do. Or like, you know, we looked at her before we looked at her as something you know something hope for everyone for you know for all the ethnic groups and for everyone in the country but then when she became in power she mainly focused all these changes for the bama people well you, you know, the mainland people, like the military was still fucking killing people and killing ethnic groups. Did they do something, you know?

Like, so then for the ethnic groups, what's the difference? And so while Andy was hopeful that his country might take a better path, he was not exactly convinced that things were going to get better. Conflict within his family eventually pushed him to make the decision to leave.

My dad was very abusive. He would beat the shit out of my mom every day like that. It was fine. It was fine when we were younger. We couldn't do anything. We just kind of watched it. But the older we got, the more we involved, the more we tried to stop it. But then we would fight with him too.

So at some point, it became too much. And so I left my home, I think in 2016, just by myself. And I was like, I've been to Mesot. I will go back here, you know. So Andy lived across the border on his own for more than five years. He'd fallen in love, gotten a home of his own, and set himself up in the sort of odd jobs you can do without papers or legal residency. And that's where things were for him when the Tatmadaw carried out their coup in early 2021.

2021, February 1st, I was in Minnesota. I was here, and yeah, in the morning, I woke up, called me my girlfriend, and she said, the military just did a coup in your country. You should call your family. The military claimed voter fraud and used that as the pretext to stay in power. It's a situation that should be unsettlingly familiar to most of our audience. For a while, Saif and May sought, and he watched it in horror as he texted with friends and family across the border.

They arrested Aung San Suu Kyi and all the big leaders right at the top. So we were kind of like, OK, is someone going to tell us what to do? And especially for us, we didn't have any experiences. We didn't know anything about any of this that I'm talking about right now. I didn't have any knowledge of that. But yeah, so after, I think, six days, the military cut off the internet for like two days. And I've lost all contact with

everyone inside my family my friends and that's the night i started planning it like i started thinking oh fuck i should go back and like and and i saw the protest photos from yangon they looked amazing right and i'm like i'm a photographer i should be there and you know Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America.

From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters.

From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons?

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New episodes every Thursday. Hola, mi gente. It's Honey German, and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators sharing their stories, struggles, and successes.

You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. While Andy was staring at the protest photos from the capital of Myanmar, Naypyidaw, as well as Miawadi, and the largest city, Yangon, wondering he should take his camera and document yet another rising for democracy in his home country,

a young woman named Amira was in the thick of those protests in Yangon. When the coup started, Amira, aged 17, had just finished high school. She was looking forward to university, and more pressingly, looking forward to playing futsal with her friends. She liked to spend her days crafting, she says, making little things to gift or to keep. Like every other day, when she woke up, she spent 10 minutes in medication before facing the world on the 1st of February.

Aung San Suu Kyi was her hero, she says. In our interview, her boyfriend translated for her. We'll get to their story later. But when the coup began, they lived a world apart. But they joined their whole generation in feeling enraged by the Tatmadaw trying to rip the freedom their parents had fought for from them. Amira took her rage into the street. Someone gave her a bullhorn. Because of her voice and then she became the leader, you know, with the... Yeah, the bullhorn. Yeah.

What kind of stuff would you say to the bull, through the bullhorn? She's saying this is unfair. And then... This is what? The arresting of Aung San Suu Kyi is unfair. Not fair. Oh, okay. Oh, gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, okay.

Yeah. And then she believed that, she believed in what Dong San Suu Kyi said, like everything is possible, and we haven't do anything, we haven't studied yet, but when we study, and then we can finish it,

so everything is possible. So that's what she believes in. So she went on the road and then she protested. Across the city from Amira on coup day, Miaok's girlfriend woke him up with the news that the government they'd voted for had been arrested. We're calling him Miaok here because that's his name in the revolution.

Everyone has one. Amira's his here because that's his name in the revolution. Everyone has one. Amir is his baby because she's so young and yet so fierce. Meowc, if you're wondering, means monkey. These revolutionaries who have risked life and limb for each other didn't know the legal names of the people they call their revolution family because it's safer that way. And we don't either. Meowc had spent the night…

Well, I'll let you hear how he phrased it, actually. I was just like, I was chilling with my ex-girlfriend, you know, I was chilling and we were, you know, Netflix and chill, Netflix and chill. Like 31, 31 January, Netflix and chill. I think it was a Sunday, I think it was. Nathalie and Che, we sleep together. If you didn't catch that, they were Netflix and chilling. You know, I was literally not awake by any louder show. I was so asleep.

But at 4 a.m., there's a phone ring. And I suddenly wake up. This phone ring from my girlfriend. Her auntie called her. And she said, there's a coup defeat oh and she wake her she told me there's a coup d'oeuvre ah i didn't uh you you know i don't believe it i believe it i didn't believe it so other than i i chat the social media oh oh may only accurately do this and i'm so angry and I'm so angry.

You know, I was going to town, downstairs and I told to my family, it's good that everyone's angry. And at those times, the internet, they cut off. The next revolutionary we're going to meet is a fellow we'll call Dr. Wonder, because that's his revolution name. When the coup started,

he was just waking up after a 24-hour shift at the hospital in Yangon where he worked. Doctors were some of the earliest and most visible dissidents in the protest. Their rarity, and therefore their relative value to the regime, made them a potent symbol of the pro-democracy movement. But, as Dr. Wunder made clear, many older medical professionals were not at all certain that resistance was the right move here. At the morning, I saw the news. That bad news, really, really bad news for us.

It was, how could I say that? They broke, you know, they broke our future. Doctors were some of the earliest, most visible dissidents in the pro-democracy protests. Their rarity and relative value to the regime made them a potent symbol of the pro-democracy movement. But as Dr Wanda made clear, many older medical professionals were not at all certain that resistance was a right move. were not at all certain that resistance was a right move. Because they told us, you know, whoever rules our country, it's not our business. It is one of our senior doctors from our society, from our department, told us like that. But we replied him, no, it should be last time.

If didn't catch that, he said it should be the last time. The last time kids had to die on the streets. They didn't want another generation to have to go through the same thing. So they got together a proposal, a sort of manifesto for peaceful non-violent society, and we discussed about that. And we planned to start with one of our prior movements before civil disobedience. We have got a Red Ribbon Movement. Because we want to thrive peacefully on the media.

Okay? We started like that. And then some of our seniors from our society, they were from Mandalay Hospital. Okay, they accept our proposal. Yes, because our generation has already passed that difficulty before. But not your generation shouldn't accept that. Three days before the coup, TK got off a plane in San Francisco. He's from Myanmar, but he lives in the Bay Area now.

Before you ask, he says that the Burmese restaurant there is not as good as the stuff back home. It's only three days. Fuck, man. Three days before. Three days before. I went back to the United States, and I wish I could stay in Yangon and do the revolution and participate in everywhere that I can. But I couldn't do it from a long distance, you know. So that's all I can do for now. TK had just been in Myanmar.

He had connections to many people on the ground there. His friends were there. His family were there. When the government cut off internet access, he remained able to get good international reporting on the situation in his home country. Slowly, he found ways to communicate with his friends and a growing core of the protesters taking to the streets. I was a keyboard fighter.

I have no idea about the politics. I have no idea about the military stuff. This is the single most common sentiment we've heard across all the revolutionaries we've met. None of them considered themselves to be very political prior to the coup. They started marching in the street because a military coup was obviously bad, but they stayed there because the violence dished out by the state was so horrific. Safe at their house in Mesot, we talked to the boys and his brothers and cousins,

all of whom were living in Naypador when the coup kicked off. It didn't take him long to try and join them. Then I went in, I went to Miawri, which is across the border in Myanmar side. And I was there for a week and it was something else. Like, I've never been to protests. I've never been involved in any of this thing. And I never thought i would be you know like i i don't know i always thought like i wasn't going to be a part of it but when i went

there the first day i arrived there were 200 000 people on the street protesting and then it's like and if this big group of people walk in streets after street and everyone coming out of their house and we have this symbol like three fingers uh from hangar gang i think yeah um yeah so that's like our symbol for democracy now our our movement now and everyone come out of their house doing that and you know like giving us water food everything it was beautiful like it was something else it was something else and then from that day i was like hook i was like okay this is what I'm going to do now. I'm going to be a photographer and I'm going to end this, you know, and I'm going to, I'm going to take photos

of these people and their stories and I'm going to share it. And that's, that's my part. That's my rule. Soon, he found friends among the protesters. Within a few days, he was feeling a feeling that so many people felt in 2020. It's a feeling you've felt if you've ever been in the thick of a crowd of people filled with righteous anger and facing down overwhelmed police or soldiers. It's a sensation I can't really describe to you if you haven't experienced it, but I can say that there's no time that I've ever felt more empowered than the times I've been crushed shoulder to shoulder with strangers, toe to toe with state violence, and watch cops break and

retreat. It's incredible. It's addictive. And if I'm honest, it's probably why Robert and I booked a flight to visit a stranger I'd been DMing on the ground. I think after three days, I met this group of people, young people, like students trying to be lawyers and stuff and I figured out that they were the ones trying to organize these big protests like 200 people 100,000 people they were the ones that's making that happen so I started kind of following them trying to get close because I wanted to get stories from them um and then they became they and they realized what I've been doing they've been watching like and so they were like very welcome and they took me to this hideout that they go to and then we will

have discussions meetings about what we should do the next day but then kind of it's because it's a small town right slowly i think police and military started realizing that we are that group too. So by now you're probably wondering what that cover of Dust in the Wind is. It's a song the boys learned when they first took to the streets. But it tells the story of a previous revolution, one that didn't succeed. That's pretty good, guys. Can you tell us what that song's about? Do you know what the lyrics are in English? Yeah, we can try.

I heard the word democracy in there, I'm pretty sure. Yeah. It's like all the lives that were lost in fighting for democracy. Do people use it for the Spring Revolution as well as the 88th? Yeah, because it's the same thing. We can use it... Tell the World, and that's the name of the song. Tell the World it's called?

Yeah, like, Tell the World. Tell the World, yeah. So, basically, the song is like... Yeah, they sang it back in the 88th, and then it's like we used it quite, they sang it back in the 88. And then it's like we used it quite a lot when we were in the protest too. Yeah. The lovers are, we'll keep fighting until the end of the world for the sake of history and revolution in our blood

and of the fallen heroes who fought for the democracy. Oh, our dearest heroes. This is the land of um like heroes like yeah and yeah it goes on and then yeah basically saying like something like the history went wrong along the way but we have to fix it yeah like the country has shed its blood and how could they commit such violence to its own people you know um yeah and yeah like they say like the the blood on the roads and the streets are not dried yet um and for the sake of these people who have died, for democracy, for fighting for democracy, for the sake of them, we have to keep fighting.

Basically, yeah. Now, in their exile, they keep singing it to remember the first day of the revolution, when the fights were in the street, not the jungle, and before they lost so many of their comrades. Yeah, and then there was the night protest in front of the police station. Oh, they're singing the song with the sound. It got very, very heated. The protest our friends were just talking about

occurred in Miaoli, but the song popped up all across the country. When you played it in Yangon, did you all sing it? Yeah. In Yangon, it wasn't one guitar. It was a whole band. We'll have protesters sitting down,

and then there's a group of people who are playing this and repeatedly there are a bunch of songs that we'll play and then there's words that we would say and yeah, like slogan and stuff. Do you know if you've ever been to a camp? Being camp. And you'll see from the footage how it's, yeah. How does it make you feel singing it now it's scary you know it's like the song is very real so like at first we didn't want to play the song it's too dark it's too it's too dark it's too um it's too intense right yeah like yeah but it's not like the levers are

there like you can see it you know it's like because we go we've been through it too so it's very intense and yeah i think the first time i heard it like i heard the song and i remember that weird feeling of yeah still have still have it, like every time we sing it now. This is not one of the songs that we usually sing. It's not a fun song. On the next episode, which you'll be able to download tomorrow, we'll talk about how the junta began to clamp down on the protests and how the protesters decided this struggle was too important to abandon and decided to fight back.

Hi, everyone. It's James here. I just wanted to note that lots of the words in this script are Burmese or Karen or Thai and we've made every effort to make sure that we pronounce them correctly, but we're sure we've obviously made some mistakes along the way. That's not out of a lack of respect or out of a lack of re-recording on my part, but we did want to note that where we've made a mistake, we're very sorry for doing so. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly

at coolzonemedia.com. Thanks for listening. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking música, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers.

Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose.

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