It Could Happen Here - How Trump is Using Election Fraud Claims to Restrict Voting

Episode Date: May 18, 2026

Garrison talks with James about FBI arrests for illegal voting and Trump’s efforts to seize state voter rolls to investigate election officials and restrict voting.  Sources: https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/pr/multiple-aliens-charged-illegally-voting-federal-elections-and-making-false-statements  https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/media/1439301/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/media/1439296/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/media/1439291/dl?inline https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/media/1439286/dl?inline https://www.michigan.gov/ag/-/media/Project/Websites/AG/releases/2026/April/DOJ-Letter-to-Wayne-County.pdf https://www.brennancenter.org/media/15517/download/ri-hearing-transcript-2026-03-26.pdf?inline=1 https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/26/us/politics/minnesota-trump-voter-rolls.html https://www.ksat.com/news/politics/2026/05/06/justice-department-can-keep-2020-election-ballots-seized-from-georgias-fulton-county-judge-rules/  https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/tracker-justice-department-requests-voter-information See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a show but things falling apart. I'm Garrison Davis. Today I'm joined by James Stout. Hello. Hi, Gare. I am excited to see what's falling apart today. Well, that's our elections, which have, as we all know, have been rigged. for as long as I can remember, which is kind of true considering when I was born,

circa the year 2000. Oh, yeah, the famous, the great and democratic election of the year 2000 in the United States. The flawless election of 2000, yeah. But no, we are going to be talking about Trump's continuing claims that the 2020 election was rigged and his investigation of election fraud in not just the 2020 election, but also the 2024 election, which, if you recall, was not rigged against Trump, considering Trump won that election, including the popular vote. Yeah, he won every way you could slice that up.

A sweeping victory. Yeah, it was a fat out for the Democrats. But a lot of the investigations into election fraud actually do revolve around the 24 voter rolls, which we will discuss in a bit. But first, let's go back a few weeks. On executive disorder, I reported that Cash Patel went on to Fox News a few weeks ago and announced that the FBI would soon be making arrests related to Trump's claims that the 2020 election was stolen, with Patel saying it was a conspiracy, and quote,

they tried to thwart our elections and rig the entire system. We got all the evidence. We've got all the evidence. I can announce on your show that we've got all the information we need. We're working with our prosecutors, the Department of Justice, and their Attorney General Todd Blanche, and we are going to be making arrest. And it's coming, and I promise you, it's coming soon. Patel also claimed on Fox News, quote, we have the information to back President Trump's claims.

About a week and a half later, the DOJ announced, quote, multiple aliens charged with illegally voting in federal elections. it's multiple, James. It's multiple. Okay, yes. We're looking at three? No, no, more than three. More than three.

It was four. It was four. Fuck me. Okay. Just for people who aren't familiar with the scared of the United States, it's not a statistically significant number when it comes to electoral outcomes. Generally, they are decided by several multiples of four. Usually.

Yeah. Patel commented, quote, securing our elections from criminal actors here at home and around the world is one of the top priorities for this FBI. Non-citizens voting is a federal crime period. And while other administrations may have looked the other way in the past, those days are over. We will continue to work around the clock with our interagency partners to ensure those who engage in such conduct will not get away with it. So these arrests took place in New Jersey. And these quote-unquote multiple aliens were four permanent residents who registered.

to vote and cast ballots in at least one federal election before applying for naturalization via the N-400. Yeah. Now, the N-400 form has a section where it asks if the applicant has ever registered to vote or has voted in a federal, state, or local election. Three of the people charged in New Jersey checked no in the box asking if they had voted, the other left the box blank. but when later questioned by an immigration services officer at the U.S. CIS interview,

this applicant answered no, that they did not or have not voted. Yeah. Now, interestingly, only two out of the four are actually charged with, quote, voting by an alien in a federal election. Okay. Three are charged with false statements in relation to naturalization. Yeah. And two are charged with procurement of citizenship or naturalization on lawfully.

Yeah, I'm guessing the goal here would be to denaturalize them, right? For the people that were naturalized, that looks like that will be part of what they do going forward. Yeah, I know I've reported on this in ED before, but large parts of USCIS have denatrolization targets, right? In the same way that we've seen deportation targets for ICE and CBP. So, like, that will be the reason that those specific charges, right? That is the easiest way to denaturalize someone.

I was going to see the only way, but I think there are technically other ways. But like the bulk of times you're going to see someone denaturalized it because they concealed. Previously it had been that they had concealed like some loyalty to like a terrorist group, right? Yeah. Or perhaps there are bars for like communists and Nazis like with capital letters there. I'm not talking about the political affiliation. I'm talking about like being a member of a party with a party card. there. I'm not talking about it, the view necessarily. Yeah, that's a whole other, like, tangent.

There's back and forth rulings if you can really denaturalize someone for being a member of a Communist Party still. It depends what they mean by Communist Party. Yeah. That's kind of like a vague term. But false statements in relation to naturalization, as in allegedly lying on the form by checking a box that conflicts with what the federal government is alleging is a much more clear-cut route to denaturalization. Yeah. One of the people charged. is a green card holder from Liberia, who immigrated as a refugee in 1998 named David Noili. He's currently 73 years old.

He allegedly registered to vote in New Jersey in 2003 and attested he was a U.S. citizen. The complaint claims Noili voted by mail in the 2020 general election and submitted a provisional ballot in person on November 5th, 2024 for that general election. Next May, it's May 2025, NULEI submitted a N-400, claiming he had never voted in the U.S., but admitted to voting twice in the naturalization interview. Okay. He is charged with voting by an alien in a federal election and false statements. Yep.

Those are the charges he's facing. That's interesting, because he seems to clarify it in the interview, right? Correct. I don't quite know how that works, but, like, yeah. he did admit in the interview that he did vote, but they're still charging him with false statements based on the N-400. It all would be interesting to follow because it could be pretty hard to stick the landing on that, given that he, I mean, I guess technically what you put on the form is there's

no takebacks, I guess, but him using the interview to clarify it certainly seems like he's trying to do what is in the spirit of the things asking him to do. Yeah, that would be an interesting one to follow. This was also interesting because it shows the investigative capacity of the FBI. This guy admitted to this. Like he admitted to this in the USCIS interview. The FBI did not like crack the case here. Yeah, yeah.

Like there. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, he told he told the cops he did it. Yeah. When was his USCIS interview? I'm not sure when the interview was. He submitted the N-400 in May 2025. Okay, so Trump 2 era.

Could have been in late 2025. Yeah, this was, at least, within the last year. Yeah, yeah, well, some of those N400s are taking forever now. Totally. It's kind of interesting. But yeah, I'm just wondering to what extent previously, I don't actually know, to what extent previously, USCIS would like refer people for prosecution. Yeah, that is, that is a good question. Yeah. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, here it is, here it is. August 2025 was when he was interviewed, according to the criminal complaint. Relatively fast turnaround. Yeah, I wonder if that's just a part of the country he's in or whether

that was because, like, they wanted to get in the office, right? And then I'd clarify or detain him because he had voted. And then in October, USCAS denied the application due to a lawful acts of voting in the 2020 and 2024 elections and the false statement on the N-400. Yeah. We will take an ad break here and then talk about the three other cases after these messages. Canadian women are looking for more, more out of themselves. their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are out of them. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.

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Koresh later submitted an N-400 in 2025. Based on his charges, I believe his citizenship was granted. because he's charged with voting by an alien in a federal election and procurement of citizenship for naturalization unlawfully. A lot of these criminal complaints are quite short, around seven pages. Okay. Jacinthic Zoom is a 70-year-old green cardholder who's lived in the U.S. since 2000 after immigrating from Jamaica.

She allegedly registered to vote in 2018 and voted by mail in the 2020 general election. She submitted an N-400 in 2021 and was granted citizenship based on what the DOJ is calling false statements. She's charged with two counts of false statements in relation to naturalization. Two counts would be, I guess, registering to vote and voting. She's oddly enough, one of the ones who's not actually charged with voting in a federal election. She's just charged with two false statements. This is, I think, one in the interview, the other on the N-400. Oh, okay, yeah, that can make sense.

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting that they didn't charge maybe, like, I guess they're like eyes on the prize trying to denaturalize someone. Yeah, I mean, like a big part of the FBI's messaging in this is, you know, we found people who illegally voted. But half of the people here aren't actually charged with that. And I don't quite know why. Maybe it's theoretically possible those charges could be added later,

but at least in the original criminal complaints issued when DOJ made this announcement, Exhum is not actually charged with voting, even though the criminal complaint says that she did, but it's not one of the charges. Yeah. The normal patent with federal charges is to have a lot of charges. And like, most of these federal cases will end in plea bargains, right? Because the exposure is so high. So, yeah, it's interesting that that's not there when normally the pattern is to put as much as you can in front of the person so that you end up with a plea bargain.

This last guy is also not charged with illegally voting in a federal election. Abina Dunn Vig is a 33-year-old green cardholder who immigrated from India in 2012. He's alleged to have registered to vote in 2016 and subsequently voted in person for the 2016 general election and then by mail in 2020. Vig later submitted an N-400 in 2023, but he only faces one charge, procurement of citizenship or naturalization on lawfully. So again, a lot of these charges, even though the criminal complaints allege a lot of the same stuff, the actual charges vary greatly. And it's, it is unclear why exactly that is. Yeah. Are they different? They're all in New Jersey. All New Jersey. So same year, attorney. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. It'll be interesting to, to follow those cases as well.

Like, I know, like I said, that they have some sort of denaturalization targets, so whether they're just focusing their energies on that. It could be a case, or it could be something to do with the specifics of that crime that I just don't know about voting or not a citizen. Yeah, there could be some prosecutorial reason that they aren't pursuing it in certain cases, but are in others.

Yeah, and they're all alleged to have voted in federal elections, right? Yes. Yeah. In at least one federal election, either presidential general election or midterm general election. Yeah. New Jersey does not have, like, local election voting. for non-citizens. Yeah. A few days before, Patel announced the imminent arrests on Fox News.

The Department of Justice sent a letter to the chief election official for Wayne County, Michigan, demanding Wayne County hand over all ballots from the 2024 election. The letter said the DOJ and its civil rights division is authorized to investigate and prosecute individuals who may have registered to vote or voted in violation of U.S. law. The letter included three instances of recorded allegations and convictions in Wayne County in quote-unquote recent years related to voting fraud. This pushed by the DOJ to get their hands on ballots or voter rolls is part of a much larger pattern. Yeah. In January, during Operation Metro Surge in Minneapolis, one of the demands from now former Attorney General Pam Bondi during negotiations with Governor Tim Walls was for the

DOJ to be granted access to the state of Minnesota's voter rolls, quote, to confirm that Minnesota's voter registration practices comply with federal law, unquote. But Trump's DOJ has actually sued over 30 states for not complying with requests to gain access to their voter rules. Cases against Arizona, Massachusetts, Rhode Island have been dismissed, as have cases in California, Michigan, and Oregon, but the DOJ is appealing those rulings. At least 15 states have complied or said they will comply with requests by handing over voter registration lists, including driver's license and social security numbers.

These are largely red states, Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, and Wyoming. In a March hearing, in the case against Rhode Island to gain access to their voter rolls, Eric Neff, the acting chief of the voting section of the Civil Rights Division of the DOJ, said that after receiving the voter rolls, quote, our intention is to run this against DHS's save database, unquote.

That's the systematic alien verification for entitlements database. James, do you want to briefly explain what this database is and how it's used? In very basic terms, it is a database. So you have like e-verify, right, would be an example of a DHS database that employers can use

to check if somebody is able to accept employment legally in the United States, right? Save is there for government agencies, not individuals, and they should be able to determine whether or not somebody is eligible for certain benefits, right? There are things called public charge rules. If people want a more in-depth explanation of public charge rules, you can scroll all the way back to November 24 when I made a podcast about these things. We looked at a number of tools that the Trump administration might use to try and deport and denaturalize people in a podcast episode back then. The problem with these databases is they're not very good. The most obvious and

amusing examples of E-Verify not being very good are when state agencies hire cops who DHS claims are not legally able to work in the United States. And then the state agencies point out that they use E-Verify, which is DHS's own tool for verifying. And, And then everyone gets quiet and wonders, like, who screwed up here, right? Because they have done their obligation, right? Large employers have to use it, verify. The same is true, I imagine, for save, right, in that it is not a database which is perfect. And so running one against the other, also the phrase running here is doing a lot of work, right?

Like, are they going to look for name matches? Are they going to look for social security number or driver's license matches? Certain non-citizens will have what's called an ITIN on SSN. There are a lot of ways which this could go horribly wrong. There's a reason that these two databases are not normally combined. Not to mention the fact that this provides a really large disincentive for people, A, signing up for benefits, which we've already seen. just the rhetoric from the Trump administration in the campaign provided a disincentive for people

accessing benefits, but also for people registering to vote, right? Yeah. People who are of diaspora communities, whether or not they are citizens, will be concerned about this. And that is not an unconscious side effect, I'm sure. That is something that they are extremely aware of as they go forward doing this. The court raised concerns about SAVE and said that. there's been reporting of people being falsely identified as non-citizens in SAVES database.

Yeah. But Eric Neff responded that according to the DHS, the accuracy rate of the save database is 100%. So I'm sure that's fine. That's just no database of the skill. No, that's just mathematically impossible. Like, it's 99% and 100% are like vastly different. Yeah. Canadian women are looking for more.

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Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

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well, good luck. Consider this your court side seat to the French Open. Listen to the Renee Stubbs tennis podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience. in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking.

Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses.

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Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free, our heart radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. It's worth noting that, like, in Trump's, one of his early executive orders, like, spring of 25, the one about preserving the integrity of American elections. part of what he asked them to do there was to overhaul save and make it like a single source citizenship verification. Yeah. Which it is not and it is still not.

Yeah. There's that push from the executive order a few months ago to create like state citizenship lists. Yeah. They've tried to go a number of ways about this, right? They also, the fall of last year, they integrated save with the passport database. I think most people will be aware that there are millions of American citizens who don't have passports, for instance, right? Yeah, they've added some other stuff, right?

But the idea here is to create, like, and it should worry everyone, right? Like, this is a citizenship database that they will then attempt to combine with their biometric databases, I'm sure, and we've seen this with, like, the name of the Android app is alluding me now. there's an Android app that ICE officers have, which is supposed to verify someone's status based on a facial recognition scan. Yeah. We know it doesn't work because there was one, for example, one lady who was scanned twice. Each result returned a different identity. A different identity, yeah.

Neither of which was her. This stuff is extremely dangerous for anyone, right? Like, you could be a citizen or a non-citizen, the idea that they're going to check you against the list of legit Americans should really worry people. Yeah. And unable to pass the Save Act in Congress, not to be confused for the same database, though they are slightly related. But unable to pass that in Congress, Trump signed the executive order last March, attempting to force the Postal Service to not deliver mail-in ballots if the voter on the ballot does not appear on this newly created list of pre-approved voters using this state citizenship list. We'll see if that actually goes through.

but that's another example of them, you know, trying to, trying to use state citizenship lists to just crack down on the number of people that are able to vote. Yeah, we can all imagine that this will have different impacts across different demographics, right? And like, that is very much not accidental. And the last thing for the voter rolls, in Fulton County, Georgia and Maricopa County, Arizona, the federal government has simply seized voting records. In Arizona, the FBI successfully subpoenaed. 2020 election records from Maricopa County. And in Georgia, the FBI raided an election warehouse in January

after dubiously obtaining a search warrant. Then on May 6th, a federal judge ruled that the federal government can keep the 2020 election materials that were seized in that raid, even if, quote, the seizure in this case was certainly not perfect, unquote. Yeah, Maricopa County's interesting. one, right? Like, but I think it's part of a grand jury investigation. Yes. Yeah. I can remember at the time and there's a 2020 election, like Maricopa County's results being somehow contentious. The state senate did their own investigation into that. Like several entities have, right? The details of that investigation is in part what was the target of the grand jury subpoena.

Okay. And not so much Maricopa County, but a number of Arizona counties were really important in the results at a 2020 election, right? There was a massive effort for turnout. I personally know people in indigenous communities who literally traveled for the entire day to vote. The indigenous turnout, especially indigenous women in Arizona, really did make a big difference in the 2020 election. And Maricopa County is the, like, by population, the biggest county. Maricopa county is vast. A number of other like Arizona counties outside of Maricopa Wall, so really pivotal in 2020 election. It's not surprising to see those ones. being targeted. It wasn't surprising to me at the time to see them being targeted, you know?

Yeah. Maricopa is where Phoenix is just for people to put it on the map. Famous for having really great law enforcement over the years. Joe Arpaio was Maricopa deputy sheriff. Yeah. Oh, yes. Ah, last from the past. Yeah, yeah. Not so far from it. Isn't he like doing some running for office or something? I thought he was. He was for a bit. I have not thought of Joe Arpire for a few years, What a life to lead. Yeah, it's been a while.

Wow, Joe Appiah, born in 1932. That's wild. Yeah, he can't be. Even for the United States. That's even pushing our charitocracy a little. But no, Trump does continue to truth claims about Fulton County on his account a few nights ago. He put out a video of the election board. video was edited to appear as if it was implying that there was voter fraud or that the elections were conducted improperly.

And that was not what the video was actually showing. But he is his truth a lot after the raid to watch out for the results of the Fulton County election raid. And now the federal judge is letting the feds keep the materials that they seized, even if it was, in the judge's own words, certainly not perfect. Yeah, I think Fulton County plays a load-bearing role in Muggers' understanding of the 2020 election, right? Yeah, and Trump's own minds.

That is where he got the mugshot taken, right? Like, this is like he is... Oh, I've forgotten about that. Personal vendetta against Fulton County. Yes, yeah, yeah. That totally makes sense. Alpire, by the way, did run for mayor of Fountain Hills in 2024. Oh, my God.

Yeah. just eight years before his 100th birthday. What a country. Oh, that's incredible. He did, he received a whopping 1,527 votes in the primary election. There's a thousand people who thought the best hope we have is someone who is approaching. Sheriff Joe. Sheriff Joe at nearly a century of age.

Remarkable. Well, with age comes wisdom. Yeah, up to a point. That does it for us today. could happen here. We will keep a lookout for any more, any more arrests by Patel, who claims to have all the evidence he needs, even though the only arrests so far is just a handful of people from New Jersey and then I think one other person from Pennsylvania. Yeah. It was arrested like in March. Again, because the actual number of voter fraud in this country is. It's minimal.

According to, according to all investigations we've seen so far, very low. It's statistically insignificant. Yes. Very low to the point where it's statistically insignificant. I think if you're going to be concerned about election rigging, looking at the way that partisan gerrymandering has been completely, completely allowed to go through and gerrymandering over districts that were protected by the voting, right, Zach? Yeah, look at what polling places are. Look at the electoral college exists

to be in between the popular vote and the result of the election, right? There are many things which distort the will of the people. Non-citizens voting is not statistically significant in that. it's just not. But this will have a real electoral outcome or is I guess because it will dissuade people from voting. It will dissuade people who have become U.S. citizens from voting. It will dissuade people who are born as U.S. citizens. And they could be pursuing charges against election officials in some of these states. Yes. That is part of trying to seize these ballots and voter rolls. It's not just to charge the possibly four people who may have illegally voted, but then trying to put some of the

blame on election officials themselves. And that is motive of intimidation is certainly part of the goal here. And that's written explicitly in some of these executive orders, threatening charges against U.S. officials for allowing certain mail-in votes to be counted when the Trump administration claims that they should not be. Yeah, I think the like nascent of this whole thing is Trump's calls to electoral officials in Georgia, right? Like the Fulton County, the whole spiral. Find those votes. Yeah, yeah. They've had this where it all began. So, yeah, we'll keep up on this as it develops leading into the midterm election.

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