It Could Happen Here - It Could Happen Here Weekly 140

Episode Date: July 27, 2024

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Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode, so every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. Welcome back to It Could Happen Here, a podcast that basically all of last week was about the 2024 Republican National Convention, a four-day period of time that I'm not sure ever ended or ever really had a beginning. As of right now, we are stuck in the hotel because what we initially thought was a hack and may just have been a fuck-up pushing an update by cloud strike, but

by any measure of the word is like the greatest computer disaster of modern times has stranded every Republican in the country, in the city of Milwaukee. With us. We are trapped with every single Republican in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, as we wait for airports and flights. Oh, God.

It's like a Stephen King story. To go back online. It's feeling quite dystopian. We've already been dealing with a great deal of time dilation just this past week. This week at first just felt like a month, then it just felt like an eternity. We were just always reporting on the RNC. This is all we've ever done. Every single day of this was longer than my childhood.

Yeah. No, I feel like all I've ever done as a person is be someone who reports on the RNC. This is just the entirety of my existence and life purpose. It's like that Star Trek episode where they have like the fake casino, because these aliens found a stranded astronaut and to try to make him comfortable, like recreated a dime store novel. And all of these fake people have only ever lived in the casino experiencing the same day forever. That's us. That's us.

That's us at the RNC. I was only created to report on the RNC. Did I have a before? Did I have an after? Absolutely not. Yeah. Anyway, so we're doing well is the short of that. Yeah, we're mentally healthy and well suited to handle this political task.

I guess the big story, the one that's really worth us talking about right now is that last night, you and I went to see the Trump speech spectacular. Now, every day of the convention, during the early part of the day, you'll have some speeches and you'll have even some outside of the event. Different groups and organizations will rent out hotel out hotel ballrooms conference rooms they'll give speeches they'll do panels there's workshops and obviously inside the the wire so to speak you have different dignitaries politicians you know ted cruz will come by and he'll sit down to be interviewed by a podcaster or radio host rudy giuliani's doing the same thing you've got all these people who do their shows live from the event and then in the evenings usually starting around like five to seven, something like that.

Yeah. You start having speeches. And part of what, you know, speeches at the RNC are, it's obviously it's a way to hype up the base. This is the base. And one of the things I try to get across to people, I posted on day one while there was some very dystopian shit coming out, Marjorie Taylor Greene speech and whatnot, how empty the stadium was to be like, look, there's not that many people here. And someone was like, well, it's kind of dishonest to say that

because this is an invite-only event that you need credentials for. And I'm like, well, that's my point though, is like as crazy as a lot of this stuff is, and we're going to get into a lot of the crazy, you don't also, you don't want to discount it because these people are very powerful and they can do a lot of damage and there's a very good chance they're going to wind up with very close to total power. But they're also not representative

of like a massive chunk of this country. Like these are the weirdest of the weird. These are the high freaks of Republican Party politics. These are the nabobs and priests and shamans of their political class. And so you shouldn't overextend the craziness to think that like, well, every one of my neighbors who is a conservative is this kind of person. Now, some of you do have neighbors who are this kind of person. And Trump's speech was certainly much more well attended than any other. Yes. And it was also a very different vibe because all of those other nights, of the speeches you know a big part of what this is for the people who get speeches is like we want to give you a reward for being a good party soldier but no one wants to promise you a cabinet position right now you know we can't get like so we'll give you a speech at

the rnc you can lead and you can get them right before tucker you know or you can come on right after tucker or whatever like that. And it's kind of how you, it's one way to dole out favors, right? Because it's good for people's, if you head up an organization, it might get you some fundraising. At any rate, it makes you look more connected. It's something you can brag about to your friends. You get to go backstage and be around the VIPs and whatnot, be a VIP yourself.

I mean, and that's certainly is the case for someone like Vivek, right? Someone who doesn't hold an elected office, never has, but is trying to position himself as being an active part of this political project. Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's kid, came out and gave a speech. That's not a guy who's an elected leader, but he's a guy you want on your side. So you're like, let's give him a nice position. We'll put him right after Hulk Hogan. Oh my God. Which I guess is, you know,

that kind of gets at why Thursday was so different from the other nights. Because while the other nights felt like a political convention, because the Dems do the same thing, right? Like their speeches occupy roughly the same role in their party. Last night felt like a concert last night was the vibes of like a show you are going to get hyped up and see a show people were ecstatic there was actually music acts like not just the band that plays in between speeches

but kid rock came out and did a set um It was all a big put-on performance. Yes. And it was, in many cases, well put on. Yeah, yeah. It was very competently stage-managed. There's no denying that. We can talk about the content of the speech, and I've seen a lot of...

You know, Sam Seder, who I like. I'm not trying to shit... I'm not going to shit on Sam or anything, but I saw his take being like, I felt like this was kind of... This seems like it's a weak speech. It's very coherent you know people in the audience looked sleepy that was not the vibe during trump speech i see where he's coming from because this was one of the quieter trump speeches trump is quieter sure i think this this this was an intentional effort

to to blend some of his more classic talking points with this elder statesman kind of vibe and selectively utilizing the assassination attempt to talk about both yourself as this like broader political figure that that people should unite behind because this incident really shows how divided we are and what we really need to do to unite the country is stop attacking trump and that's the only way to do it um so like he this this was all on purpose and kind of using that more sympathetic unity messaging to squeeze in all of his same extremely far right talking points just slipping in between you know calls for like unity and ending division and all of that and also the fucking boys are playing in women's sports and hannibal lecter the

late great he had a hannibal but we should we're getting ahead of ourselves but i do want to just kind of say up front my take differs from what i've seen from sam's theater and what i've seen from a number of folks who watched you know the closed circuit version of this the audience loved it yeah like they loved it and you can you can taste in the air the degree to which they love Trump. This is like not if you have not been to one of these rallies. And even this is different because I've been to a regular Trump rally. This was different than that because this is, again, like the most dedicated chunk of the base. It's very much a religious experience for these people.

Yeah. No, it definitely had that spiritual vibe. So the first speaker we wanted to really get to in person to hear talk was Tucker. And Tucker gave a very efficient speech. He did not read off a teleprompter. He was ad-libbing the whole time. Best speech at the convention, technically. He was a pretty good speaker. And I know we often will make fun of kind of Tucker's mode of speaking on television, which can come off as a little bit like disjointed and kind of just like confused. You know, he has that like resting,

confused look on his face. He was a very good live performer. Yeah. He gave a stronger live performance than I think would have a lot of his televised performances come off as. He gave an erudite and smooth summary of fascist ideology, specifically what used to be called the Führerprinzip or Führerprinzip, which is this idea that came out

of the Nazi movement of a nation being embodied by a man, and the man is accountable to the people, not in a sense that we would consider like checks and balances, but in some deep spiritual connection that they have. And Tucker very directly, like, like hearkened to that. He made a comment about like, you know, Trump talked to me and he was like, you know, when I got shot, I expected to see the crowd running, screaming, stampeding, panicking, and no one did. And Tucker was like, that's because you're the leader and the people follow the leader. And you didn't panic, so they won't panic. It's the most direct, old style. This is 1920s Nazism stuff that Tucker is throwing out. And he discussed it in a way that was very smooth and very palatable to American ears.

And that was the most chilling part of the night for me. Because Trump's speech was not a particularly – I think back to 2016. And I was at the RNC in 2016. Trump's speech on the last night of the RNC was his blood in the street speech. It was a – he was angry. It was aggressive. It was a violent speech, right? And there were moments certainly of

violence in his speech, but not much. That was not the overall vibe. That was not what he built towards. It wasn't the thing he ended on, and it was never really a focus. But what Tucker was focusing on was getting people on board the concept that they are bonded to Trump in a spiritual sense and that the nation is is and that Trump is the leader, not by dint of having been elected, but by dint of some sort of psycho, like psycho religious mystic bond. Tucker was also the first guy I heard of the convention to mention Antifa at all. First and only. Sayingifa is the Democrats' own militia, which is something that you would hear four years ago.

And right before Tucker's speech, I actually was talking with Robert, being like, hey, I've not heard anyone mention Antifa this entire week. And this used to be such a big thing in their political messaging, both four years ago, two years ago. And this week, it was just completely absent.

Now, obviously, it has been replaced by some of this like gender ideology, groomer, kind of trans panic type stuff. But it is a noticeable absence in the current talking points of the Republican Party, save for this one mentioned by Tucker. Yeah. And you know, during Trump's speech, I don't even recall him bringing up the radical left. He didn't even, he made a couple of jokes. And those ones, two of the jokes that got the best crowd response from him is he would bring up Biden, but they would say, I'm not going to mention his name. I promise I won't talk about him. And that got a laugh every time that he did it, which I counted twice. He did make one reference to the shooter and said he tried to stop our movement. Yeah. Greatest movement in the history of the country. And yeah, that was interesting to me. I think that he was kind of playing, easing off the gas on that one because there's still so much that's uncertain about the shooter

and his motives. I went to work out today because the morning after convention, that's kind of how I purged the hangover from my body. And I was watching Fox News on the TV in the gym. And I don't watch television news much because I'm a person who has to do things. But it is useful sometimes because it connects you with how an unfortunate number of people in this country do intake their news. And this morning, one of the reports was about the shooter and how the FBI had found that he had three encrypted accounts offshore overseas that they're trying to break into they are referring to i think uh discord kind of accounts and stuff like that like uh he might have like an like a whatsapp he might have a telegram account yeah an encrypted email possibly yeah the stuff that like i have most people have but they were

like so this makes it even more likely that iran is involved you know there's some sort of a rant because like overseas that means iran oh man there's lots of companies that that have encrypted apps that aren't based in the we i used to shill for a vpn that was based i think nord is based in switzerland um maybe i'm wrong about that but like some of the vpns are based in switzerland and like these are not it's not the fact that it's overseas does not mean there's any tie to anything other than this kid like a lot of people had was used encrypted messaging platforms um obviously i'm interested you know when if the fbi when it when if or when they get into that stuff what they find but i don't think they're going to find that the fucking ayatollah gave this guy a 500 ar 15 and 50 rounds of ammunition

that is certainly doubtful um i mean yeah i think tucker had some of the best audience reactions since marjorie taylor green's speech uh he called jd vance a friend said that vance's politics are closer to the average trump voter than anyone else in Washington. And yeah, just an overall very, very polished speech. Yeah. We should probably do an ad break now, huh? We should. We're back. So after Tucker, we had a couple other people come on there was a woman who worked for

uh an educate a conservative education political activist group who her whole thing was you know i i worked in prisons for a while and then i i switched over to working in schools and the thing that shocked me is our schools are so much more of our schools are like prisons which i was like well actually there's a lot to be said about the way in which some of the same yeah right yes no this is there's a lot to and then she was like because children are much more violent than convicted felons and you're like oh okay a lot of what she was saying is that like schools are completely out of control and obviously in the wake of the the height of the COVID pandemic and the lockdown, school violence did soar. It's been coming back down.

Overall, schools have been getting less violent in every single way but shootings for 20 straight years. And that is the case now. In Joe Biden's America, schools, violence that is not related to shootings is going down. schools like violence that is not related to shootings is going down. But what she was saying is that like, we need to be able to expel and suspend kids, particularly suspend kids more often for bad behavior. There is actually quite a bit of data that shows that when you suspend children,

it makes them more likely to offend and disrupt class in the future. Like it increases the problems that you are supposed to be stopping. Like most conservative measures that are kind of like punitive in nature, it doesn't actually do the trick. I don't know why I'm arguing with this lady, but it is important that like, that's a big part of how they're pitching.

What ultimately is a plan to win the Department of Education to parents is like your schools are so dangerous for your kid you need to be able to have a voucher to send them to a private school and we need to be able to kick these underperforming black students out of schools um in order to make them safer for everybody right like yeah and shuffle them off into the carceral system this whole speech was kind of a coded way of talking about like urban crime she blamed this problem on an obama biden policy to limit suspension rates which trump undid and yeah said that the solution is both more suspensions and more school resource officers which the kato institute says actually increases the number

of violent incidents in schools so but again of course they're going to call for more police this is the republican party honestly i don't know why we even bother like fact checking this is important because i care like and you care and but like our audience knows the lady that gets up to talk about school policy at the rnc is not going to be bringing out good policy but this is just how everything works. This just kind of underlines the alternate world that is formed in places like this. Yeah, and you can't fight these people with facts. That is the mistake liberals always make.

It's like, well, if we can just out-argue them, if we can get them in front of the American people and see how bankrupt their ideas are. And that's not how you do it. Now, that's not to say that you shouldn't get out and engage with them, because what does work is showing the American people, reminding them these are freaks. These people are weird. These people are off-putting. These people are scary, and you don't want to be around them. And by God, you don't want them with their finger on the button. Like, I do think that consistently works. And unfortunately, that freakish

nature can sometimes help them. Like when you pull out Hulk Hogan onto stage waving an American flag calling Trump his hero and his gladiator. And talking about how, yeah, all of America are going to be the Trumpites. That's what they're going to call him. Trump mania. Which apparently he used to do with NWO back in the day, back in his glory day. He couldn't stop himself from talking about beating Andre the Giant at WrestleMania. I think it was like 1983 he made two different andre the giant references both of which were very mean to andre the giant who i wish oh andre no the wrong one died hulk hogan compared the energy of the rnc to a wwe match which he is not wrong he's not wrong it is very similar look i'm not gonna

like hulk hogan understands this crowd oh absolutely more than almost more than maybe any other actual speaker yeah like like tucker kind of understands them but but hulk hogan even more so they loved him yeah when he ripped his shirt off oh yeah to reveal the trump vance tank top underneath that was the best moment of the rnc that was the moment where i was like all right fuck it no he said that he usually stays out of politics but after what happened on saturday he could no longer stay silent and then spent you know the rest of the speech just praising trump saying how tough he is saying that you know he's survived all these court cases these investigations impeachments and we need a tough man to take on like politicians criminals and drug dealers

and no it was it was a in a week full of kind of surreal moments where you're seeing these people that you only interact with on a screen yeah you just see them walk past you like all the time every day this was certainly one of the most surreal madison cawthorne nearly hit me with his wheelchair and i'm not the only one I talked to with that story he's a little reckless I'm gonna be honest maybe he thought you were a tree maybe he thought I was a tree I love that we saw two people two republicans at this convention both of whom have a tragic tree story. I'm talking about Greg Abbott.

They made the kind of baffling decision on the schedule to put Franklin Graham after Hulk Hogan. Not nice to Franklin Graham, to be honest. No? Yeah, because he did the thing that usually gets a good reaction, which is the prayer, right? He's there to do the prayer, and this is a good crowd for a prayer, right? That's not a lame thing to these people. They love doing that. But no one's heart was fully into the prayer after Hulk. Like you can't, you can't get

people. It's a tough come down. It's a tough come down from Hulk Hogan ripped his shirt off on stage to now let's bow our heads and thank god but if you didn't grow up in evangelical circles franklin graham is the son of billy graham possibly the most famous pastor in american history at least in the past hundred years since sinners in the hands of an angry god like the most popular man of faith in the country and he closed his prayer by saying all authority comes from you speaking about god and we ask if it be thy will that you will make America great once again. Just a wonderful Christian message. Uh-huh. Grand.

So that was nice. Eric, Trump gave a very... He tried his best, which is basically what Trump said. Again, Hulk Hogan has just been on. Trump is about to be on. It is the last night of the RNC, and everyone is absolutely certain of victory. So as a speaker tonight, you couldn't be more teed up for a good reaction. And he could barely get laughs.

He could barely get cheers. Like, even when he did the anti-trans stuff, it got a muted reaction. Not because people aren't bigoted because they loved it when marjorie taylor green did the say they loved it when trump did eric trump just sucks yeah at speaking probably at everything but he they he did not get a reaction i i cannot over emphasize to you how little this crowd wanted to listen to eric yeah no i mean he he shouted out monster liberty said that the trump admin will fight against brainwashing in schools will fight how little this crowd wanted to listen to Eric. Yeah, no, I mean, he shouted out Monster Liberty, said that the Trump admin will fight against brainwashing in schools,

will fight against homeless people, specifically taking resources from veterans, and of course, trans people in sports. He kept bringing up Ukraine too, stealing resources from Americans. He was like the most brought up Ukraine in a derogatory sense more than I think any other single speaker at the convention, which is interesting because his dad took even a bit of a different tact with that.

So, yeah, I found that interesting, but I did not find his speech interesting because he is a bad speaker. Now, the only line I found interesting was when he was talking about how all of Donald Trump's political enemies aren't just happy going after him, they're also going to be going after every Republican. And he said, the greatest retribution will be our success yeah and they've been using that word a lot this year retribution retribution and you know he did kind of in the end get get get a little bit of applause it was like the fifth or sixth best standing ovation of the night so again he at his best was never able to really rile them up. Especially when he's talking about the assassination attempt.

I mean, the crowd-chanting fight. Yeah, that's what got them back on board and interested. They loved to talk about that, I think, in part because it had been so absent earlier. Yeah, it was talking about way more today than basically all the other days of the week combined. Yeah, yeah.

And that makes sense. I mean, it was the day that Trump came out to speak. Yeah. And you know what we're going to talk about now or not talk about? Assassinating your thirst with hopefully a soda company advertising on the podcast. Otherwise, this ad segue is not going to make much sense. All right.

Time for Donald Trump himself. He's coming out. They set this stage. They got everything ready. And I'm proud to be an American. And then they announced Kid Rock. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Oh, my God. And he comes out and the whole stage is wreathed in massive screens,

like dozens of feet tall. And they all are portraying fire and American flags. American flags that look kind of like they're on fire. Yeah, Kid Rock comes out and does a rap set to burning American flags surrounding him. It was kind of just a fascinating image for the rnc the refrain is they call me cowboy he said that like 40 times and he just kept going trump trump trump fight fight fight and they loved it they loved it it was it was very high energy it was it was a concert everyone everyone everyone had a great time yeah yeah it got a good reaction people were hyped up it is the loudest stupidest thing i have ever seen in my life but it got a really good

reaction people loved kid rock coming out um it's interesting to me that they chose to have kid rock basically lead directly to the president rather than the hulkster but I don't know. If I had been setting this up, I would have done Franklin Graham, School Lady, Eric Trump, all the weak ones up first, and then probably Tucker, the Hulkster, Kid Rock. You know?

Yeah, the RNC should really hire you to man their schedule. I'm available, guys. So after we all kid rocked out technically Dana White gave the introduction or Dana White UFC CEO yeah who is also on video

hitting his wife in the face this is not a debatable he said she said he is on video you can watch it yeah and he gave a very typical strength and security speech. Yes. Introduced Trump, who emerged from behind one of the big screens. Well, proud to be an American plays, and the entire crowd stands up,

and they're all singing along to Proud to be an American. They love that song. He'd started his speech. And one of the interesting things is that he said that he's going to tell the story of what happened at the assassination attempt here right now, but won't tell it ever again because it's too painful to tell. Yeah. I'll be interested to see how often he does bring it up. If that is true. Because it is just based on his body language.

Cause he's been out every night, but not saying anything. And he does has looked a bit different. Not on the, I'm not going to do the whole thing. Some of the fucking, you had some like Politico being like, it's a new Trump.

He's become a Statesman. They definitely, that's what the RNC is trying to sell you on. That's nonsense. But he is changed in the way that like you would be if you were shot in the head and survived you know like anyone is go like he's not a robot right like anyone is going to be affected by that and he might not have been lying he might just been like look i have to talk about this once i really don't want to keep talking about this because it's fucked up i mean one of the parts

actually felt genuine. There were certain sections of this where he was saying, I was not supposed to be here tonight. And the crowd was like, yes, you are. He was like, no, man. No, that was really close. He was thanking God.

I don't know how genuine that is for him and how much that's political posture. Yeah, that I don't necessarily believe. That's just kind of what you have to do he certainly knows that he barely made it out of that fucking speech yeah and he he pointed to the assassination attempt as a as a sign of how divided this country has been a very we're all trying to find the guy who did this moment yeah and he he called the democrats to stop the witch hunts if they want to unify the country, saying, quote, we must not demonize political disagreement. And the Democrats should, quote, stop weaponizing the Justice Department against Trump and labeling him an enemy of democracy.

So he's saying the way to actually unify this country is just to stop. Stop being mean to me. He's bad. Yeah. Stop saying Orange Man bad. That's really what he was. That's what he was getting at. If you want to see the things that you can gain from this that are useful in how to fight these people, they are scared of the attacks that portray Trump as an enemy of democracy.

The Project 2025 focus was hurting Republicans in polling. And the fact that the Dems have pulled back, maybe that... Was not mentioned in a single speech this week. Yeah. Nobody talked up 2025. You know, even the Heritage Foundation people were notably cagier about it than you might expect in their interviews with the press, because they do know that it's not a good it's not great for them to bring up now. It's not popular. Yeah. And, you know, slowly, trump's speech got more and more trumpian right saying that democrats are destroying our country talking about uh you know immigrants invading our country as he said he said the word invasion many many times yeah uh saying that that they're that

saying that illegal immigrants are killing hundreds of thousands of people a year yeah uh it's the fentanyl thing it's even though 90 percent of fentanyl is brought into u.s ports of entry by u.s citizens yeah that line actually was one of the the through lines that was almost every day of this i heard someone mention that we've lost as many or more americans to fentanyl as we did in world war ii um at one point it might have been in trump's speech i it was even framed as like more people have died from fentanyl than died in world war ii and like well no no no a lot a lot of people died in world war ii just not that many americans really yeah speaking of world war ii era germany in trump's little section we sure did get a mention there in

trump's little section about inflation he gave a fascinating comment yeah saying quote you can go back to germany a hundred years ago unquote to see the negative effects of inflation yeah pointing to like weimar era germany yeah yeah he's talking about weimar he's talking about like what immediately preceded the nazis coming to power yeah and and but like also framing it as like i'll be the one to get us out of inflation which is very similar messaging as the fascist movements did saying to germany that was in you know in in a real economic issue like we will be the ones to fix this through through nationalism closing our borders through putting germany

first like that is it's it's it was it was a very a very odd comparison for trump to make i i don't know how well he thought through that i i don't believe that was this was like an intentional coded message it didn't seem like i don't think trump works that way yeah um he definitely does have teleprompters sometimes but he also he is like a good public speaker he doesn't just stick religiously to it yeah and that did strike me as a line that may have just come right out of the heart now he had a few other interesting things in the economy he was talking a lot about increasing car manufacturing jobs including saying the the leader of the united auto workers should be fired

and promising to put tariffs of 100 to 200 percent on all foreign made cars which would i'm sure do some real stuck up on your toyotas now folks well they make a lot of them in the u.s i'm sure that would really help the economy yeah yeah which is like i mean part of the there's a lot to say about that one thing that's interesting someone had told you because you were the first person to bring this up to me, there were strong rumors that really midday before the speech started percolating that Elon Musk was going to show

up and introduce, or either introduce or endorse. I heard this from Thursday morning. Which may mean that they were just getting some bullshit. It may mean that there were actually talks, right? Because Musk has been trying to get Trump's attention yeah that's beyond debate he wants trump on twitter and he wants trump you know he's he's been making all these statements about how much

money he's going to donate to trump and now he's endorsing him now do i actually think he's going to give the rnc 45 million dollars a month no he's going to find some bullshit way he's going to give him something but he's going to fight like he's he's he never spends give like that's too much money for him to want to spend on them right like i think he's going to fuck them the way he fucks everybody over but it i it was interesting to me how much talk there was of him showing up and absolutely no elon and in fact there was a moment where Trump was like, hey, electric cars are fine for some things, but like we got to subsidize gas cars. Yeah. He talked about, you know, increasing drilling in the United States and kind of the last big topic that he went to was the border. He pointed to the little border patrol chart that he

looked at the split second before those shots fired, which saved his life. So you can thank the border patrol chart for that. He said that Mexico and South American countries are sending murderers and people from a sane asylums into the United States. It was interesting because Naeem Bukele of El Salvador, it keeps getting brought up as like a Trumpian figure is like, this is the kind of leader Trump wants to be. Look at how,

how much good he's done at at stopping violent crime in El Salvador. Trump shat on him. Trump accused him of sending all of El Salvador's violent criminals and psychopaths to the United States, which I thought was interesting, actually. Was it El Salvador or Venezuela? Both. He brought up both because he also brought up Venezuela and accused them of doing... He said El Salvador, but he also brought up Venezuela and said, maybe next election we'll hold the RNC in Venezuela because it's so peaceful now because they sent all their rapists here. Exactly. Then he had the late great Hannibal Lecter line.

And then immediately afterwards, he said that he will enact the largest deportation program in American history. Yeah. And that's just a very beautiful snapshot of the current american politic and it got a great reaction and i would say that by far the most aggressive because he really didn't play any of it much of the much of if any radical left stuff but he really even didn't other than to say that joe was like a bad president the country was in bad shape he didn't like yell at democrats much the hate was mostly reserved for migrants and immigrants yes he closed by saying that we're going to be building an iron dome in the united states oh yeah that

one was a curveball yeah and then he pivoted to saying that we will not have men playing in women's sports which is the first trans reference in his whole speech and he just kind of dropped it and then changed and then he immediately continued to something else. And the crowd did not react to that nearly as much as they reacted to any of the other mentions of like trans people. I think because it just kind of, he just kind of threw it out there,

but then we're right back to- It was almost like a perfunctory line. Like he knew he had to put it in. Oh shit, I gotta drop a line about, because I think it is perfunctory because again, Trump doesn't really care all that much about the culture, like the social stuff. Yeah, and

that's pretty much what they closed the speech on, mostly on this migrant stuff, this Iron Dome thing. And increasing the manufacturing jobs in the United States, which is, you know, a lot of what Trump's messaging was back in 2016 as well.

So, I mean, in a way way it was mostly him playing the hits you know we had the there was he did bring out corey contemporaries firefighters uniform um it was on stage behind him the whole time he kissed it at one point walked up to it and i thought he was gonna go in for a hug and i was like oh that's gonna be weird and instead he went up behind and kissed it which was also weird kind of did a joe biden to the dead man's firefighter it was a very joe biden um and he he brought up cory he brought also up the other people who were wounded he named them all which you know you i it makes sense you have to do it he didn't really talk much about cory beyond that like cory was there as a prop. He kissed it, and then he moved on.

They gave about a five-second moment of silence, a very brief moment of silence. And then they moved on. And when his speech ended for the night, Garrison and I both saw, this was a beautiful moment to share with you, Gar. You and I have shared some moments, but this is right up at the top of the list.

As all of the whole convention, the whole ceiling is balloons, right? They've got them up there. They have some sort of system by which, like, at the end, they trigger it and they all start falling down. And they'll fall for 10, 15 minutes. Like, there's a lot of balloons and it's rigged so that they're... And, you know, some of them are red, white, and blue. A lot of them are like gold, huge gold balloons.

It's gold balloons mixed in, yeah. And the last sight we get, you know, as Trump is on stage with his family, balloons are showering the crowd. Gold balloons everywhere. Everyone's cheering, screaming. They're celebrating what they see as an inevitable victory. Yeah.

Two stage crew guys take Corey's uniform and wheel it unceremoniously offstage into darkness. Just quietly wheel it backstage. As balloons pour down and everyone dances and cheers. No one notices. We're done. It's like Frank Grimes' casket sinking into the dirt in The Simpsons. No one sees.

No one sees. It's very unceremoniously, very quietly, very quickly just wheeled offstage. We had what we needed from him. The celebration continues. And also they spelled his name wrong on the firefighting uniform. To be fair. It was previously spelled wrong. Yeah.

Yeah. That's, I think it was an issue of when he was a firefighter, they just could only have so many letters on the jackets. But it, you know, there was some talk about that. I have seen a lot of folks making the comparison to Horst Wessel,

who was a German member of the Brown shirts. He was also a pimp who got murdered by some communists in retaliation for acts of violence he had carried out right before the Third Reich took power. And they really made a lot out of his death. He got this massive state funeral. They had a very popular song about him. He was kind of the individual chosen to embody all of the guys who died in the street fights prior to the rise of the party. And people have been comparing Corey to Horst. I get why, because we are watching a fascist party near

power here. And there's clearly some desire in that for Corey to be that. power here and there's clearly some desire in that for cory to be that horst was a the focus of almost a i'm not almost of a cult and what i saw here was a perfunctory well we got to mention this guy uh we got to like you know make a reference to him but let's let's get in and out of that we got to move on to the meat and potatoes that's not going to win us and i think what is like the america the swing voters and shit don't care about cory contemporary right that's not gonna that's our base is going to expect us to say something it's also just like the thing you do this guy got killed at your rally with a bullet meant for you you got to bring up something but then let's move on let's get him out of there let's shove his fucking uniform into the

fucking back closet and uh get to the party, you know? And that is different from how the Nazis handled Horst. And I think that difference, maybe it signals a real difference in the structure of American fascism, you know, and how it inhabits a party. Or maybe it's just a measure of, we're not all fully bought in on this to the extent, in the same way that the nazis were right like we really are trying to just get a lot of people on board to vote for us and we don't want to get too weird with it you don't want to have a big coat for cory at the rnc the big religious state that's got to be off-putting to americans so let's we'll kiss the hat people like firefighters

shove it back that's how I took that. There's two other things I want to mention. I've had J.D. Vance's hype song stuck in my head. Boy, yes. Because they just kept playing it at that convention. And it's an interesting song. It has a good beat. For most of the song, it's talking about how we spend all this time trying to liberate other countries.

And maybe actually we're the ones that need to be liberated. Maybe America actually needs to be saved. Maybe we aren't as free as what we would think. And it has a line about getting out of Iraq. We got to get out of Iraq, take our country back, and put America first. And that is the point where they lose me, obviously. It still is interesting for one of the, like, for the vice president's song at the RNC to be anti-Iraq.

I'm like, hey, there were people telling you back then not to do Iraq, and you really wanted to. We heard it for the first time on Monday when Vance got officially announced as the nominee, and I kind of wondered then if, like, is this a was like somebody they were like oh there's an a merle haggard song about america first let's throw that in there and then realized oh no there's we we can't have that we're the party who did the iraq stuff but it kept coming up it kept being played so it's very intentional clearly and and we were talking last night about this and like how how this is how

these type sort of nationalist projects always work and we we've seen more america first like that that exact phrase uh be used at this convention way more than any any previous one trump said it a few times a lot of speakers have been saying it like just like we need to put america first yeah and yeah no in specifically in this song you know it has it has this kind of populist bent that then veers very hard nationalist yeah um which i'm sure we're all familiar with as a political tendency yeah but i've just i found that to be the most interesting part is because for like the majority of that song i'm like yes absolutely i agree and then and and then they say the america first line and it's like oh that is, that is not what we're talking about.

It's, yeah. And I just know it's been something I've been thinking about and I'm sure we'll do some more deep dives on Vance in the coming weeks since he's a little bit, you know, less well known to many of you, I assume. And the last thing I kind of want to mention is that yesterday, right before Trump's speech, I was getting some work done, and I happened to be sitting about 10 feet away from Ted Cruz, who was talking on air about his thoughts on both this convention and this election in general. And he said a few interesting things that I half heard, that I quickly just scribbled down on a notebook.

things um that i i half heard that i that i quickly just scribbled down on a notebook he said that you know this come this this convention already feels like a celebration right this already feels like like we've kind of won but he he warned republicans to be scared of overconfidence he he he said that we're kind of acting like how the Democrats were acting in 2016. I have been saying that all week. Yeah. And that's what Ted Cruz was saying. Yeah. He thinks that Biden is not going to be the candidate, that someone else is going to come into place.

Now, he believes that that's going to be Michelle Obama, which is an unhinged opinion. Unbelievable. Because like, do I think Michelle Obama would have a decent shot at winning the presidency in this election? Sure. Do I think Michelle Obama wants to a decent shot at winning the presidency in this election? Sure. Do I think Michelle Obama wants to go anywhere near the White House again in her life? No.

Absolutely not. It's like a nightmare. She's making movies. They're in Hollywood. They're doing the thing people. They're doing what Ted Cruz wants to do. When people are allowed to make big Hollywood movies, they don't want to get into politics. For a long time, that's how we avoided having fascists in power in this country, like direct power, like Trump kind of fascists.

We're very lucky that Clint Eastwood just makes movies and doesn't do politics. The people who would be the best, we have, you know, you have fascists like stuck inside of the bureaucracy, but the people who could really have the potential charisma to be populist leaders wind up becoming movie stars. Tom Cruise could have been a president. He's got what it takes, but he decided to devote all of that manic kind of charisma energy into climbing the Burj Khalifa. And that's part of the genius of the American system. And I guess lastly, Milwaukee was lovely. All the food service workers were lovely. Milwaukee's great.

Even the poor people who were forced to work at the convention center. Consistently nice. Did a great job. And there's one anecdote that Robert should mention. Just regarding some of the very fine people uh here in milwaukee i've gotten shouted at my my occasional enemy well always enemy but occasionally i remember that he exists andy no uh made a series of posts about how there was a dangerous antifa terrorist at the convention and like clipped a couple of posts of mine out of context

like he always does and uh uh was like you know people in his in his mentions were tagging the secret service and the fbi serves laura loomer i continued to repeatedly enter the rnc i i went through god i lost count of how many times i went through Secret Service checkpoints. We snuck into the Heritage Foundation party. None of it mattered. The only people at the show who recognized me were technical folks for the different radio. I had a couple of different people who were carrying booms, carrying cameras, who recognized me and shouted me out, which I felt good about. recognized me and shouted me out, which I felt good about.

What I felt best about is as you and I were walking to the stadium to see the speech, we see a forklift driving down the street. In the middle of the security perimeter. Like one of the crowded streets. Yeah, which is kind of crazy. It's weird. I've never actually seen a construction vehicle driving around inside during like the convention hours.

So that was weird. And as we're like watching this thing, like I honestly wondered like should i like get a footage of this that's kind of wild looking as we as we see it like kind of coming up next to us the driver leans out of the side of the vehicle and he is uh uh a beautiful man covered in tattoos huge nose ring and he's like hey robert we we we have the forklift demographic nothing has ever made me so certain that we're doing the right thing with our lives we're reaching the people we need to be reaching you know the forklift certified soldiers out there so forklift nation thank you for

listening to it could happen here we do this for you we do this for you we know you have our backs and we have your back oh stay safe everybody yeah god bless hey guys i'm kate max you might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic

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creators sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, welcome to Eat Could Happen Here, another food episode. How did we get here? Today,

we're talking about asparagus. Why, you might ask? Once again, you can blame James Stout. Hi, James. Hi, Shireen. I'm happy to be blamed. I take responsibility for asparagus. Why did you want me to talk about asparagus? It's because, Shireen, I grew up in the Vale of Evesham. The Vale of Evesham, if people aren't familiar, is an area in the middle of England where asparagus is grown heavily. In fact, there's a protected origin,

so you can only call it Vale of Evesham asparagus if it comes. There was a big asparagus auction that used to happen. So around, it's called grass and not asparagus right right that's i'll go into that yeah oh good good excited to learn um it's so do you know how many how many spears are in a round shereen no let's let's say no okay it's a gross a gross of spears so it grows how many do you know how many is in a gross? No, James, just tell me. Stop quizzing me. It is 144. It's 12 times 12. Wow.

So there's a pub called the Round of Grass. We used to go there a lot when I was younger. I used to work. If anyone knows it, hi. Maybe you probably know me. Small town. Shout out to my mum, who is probably the only person. it's small shout out to my mom who is probably the only person uh i used to work just down the road from there um at a tomato like a big tomato greenhouse you used to work at a tomato greenhouse

yep yep pack up the tomatoes slap a label on that bad boy send it off to sainsbury's or tesco it's such a crap job like i mean it doesn't sound no no disrespect if you work in a tomato greenhouse and that's what you enjoy like that's great like i love to grow a tomato that job was just not i didn't like doing the same thing every day yeah that's fair that's fair well well today is not a tomato episode today is an asparagus episode let's let's just get into it i want you to talk more about your hometown but i'm going to sprinkle it in here and there just to make things more interesting. Let's just get into the nitty gritty of what asparagus is. Apparently, the asparagus is a member of the lily family.

The plant is made up of the top, which is the fern, the crowns, which are the buds, and then the roots. All three of these parts are vital to a productive asparagus plant. and then the roots. All three of these parts are vital to a productive asparagus plant. The fern is known as the factory, which through photosynthesis produces food sorted in the crown and their roots below ground. The number of vigorous spears in the spring depends on the amount of food produced and stored in the crown during the preceding summer and fall. Producing a good crop of fern is necessary for ensuring a good crop of spears the following spring. It's important not to cut the old fern at the end of the season until it is completely dead. And the best time to remove old fern is in the spring, since valuable food and

nutrients move during the autumn months from the dying fern to the crown. Fascinating. Yeah. Maybe you're wondering, is there a nutritional value? Yes, of course there is. It's a vegetable. But one cup of asparagus has no fat and only two grams of sugar and three milligrams of salt. Apparently, it's known as one of the most nutritionally balanced vegetables ever. A lot of fiber and it contains no cholesterol, very low in sodium, as I said, a good source of folic acid, potassium, as well as vitamins A, A6, and vitamin C. Wowie.

Yeah. Only the young shoots of asparagus are eaten. Fun fact. There's also an amino acid called asparagine, and this gets its name from asparagus. Oh, wow. Because the asparagus plant is rich in this compound. Asparagine is also commonly found fun fact in french fries and potatoes which are potatoes um and fries are the same there are over

300 known varieties of asparagus and the varieties most widely seen in the united states include the white variety which is preferred in europe i'll get into this later but apparently chefs in europe only usually use white james yeah no that well that's mainland europe maybe but now that we've brexited obviously we can be proud of our green asparagus uh i've never i've not enjoyed white asparagus i think it lacks fresh the fresh flavor there's a reason for that there's a reason for that yeah they pile up the soil right so yeah exactly synthesize yeah yeah yeah well spoiler alert i was gonna say that part now it is very fascinating that they prefer to do that though uh but regardless the three varieties in the united states include the white one and these

sunlight deprived stocks are a little milder and more delicate. It's difficult to find these fresh in the US, but they are widely available canned or in jars. You don't want to be eating asparagus in a can or a jar, though. I mean, you don't want to be eating most things in a can or a jar. It's true. But desperate times. It's a sardine, if you're a person who eats sardines,

they're good in a can. I'm not going to do a sardine episode ever're a person who eats sardines very good in a can i'm not gonna do as hardy an episode ever oh sure actually that could be a really interesting episode i used to live in a place where they had a protected origin for those as well you know after doing sea urchins i was glad to do asparagus because asparagus says are not little living things i'm not trying to be annoying but i think it's hard for me to talk about things that can be eaten. Living things that can be eaten. Yeah, yeah. The asparagus, it's alive. I will talk about them because they are food,

but they're not my first choice. So I'm glad to be talking about a plant today. I don't find asparagus cute, so maybe it's easier for me to eat them. That's just my own bias. Yeah, I'm going to derail your episode. I've been reminded that i had my 21st birthday party at one of the pubs that or the auctions the asparagus little tidbit

i love some james stout lore forget in the barn in the barn at the uh the fleece at brefferton the other one of course is around a grass and fancy wow fascinating your life continues to be fascinating that's extremely fucking mundane it's fucking weird in a good way but sure there another variety the violet or purple kind of asparagus this one is commonly found in england and italy and it has a very thick substantial stock and then is the greenparagus, which is the most widely known kind of asparagus, because most American asparagus is of this variety. And it ranges from pencil thin to very thick. They describe it as the size of your thumb.

But I think this is relative depending on how big your thumb is. And then there's also wild asparagus. And these asparagus grow in wild areas. It's mostly found in Europe or like on the coastline somewhere and you'll most likely have to hunt down your own because it's rarely available fresh in markets except for in italy and the south of france no wild asparagus is great it's going to be uh you do have to be as with anything that you're taking out of the uh out of the wild areas you do want to be careful that you're getting wild asparagus there are a couple of things because if you confuse it with

something else oh i mean yeah you can that can yeah you can get yourself i'm trying to remember yeah don't be like into the wild out here like be yeah yes yeah don't into the world yourself uh with with the wild asparagus samphir is another delicious vegetable. It's a bit like, I think it's a relative of asparagus. It's like sea asparagus. S-A-M-P-H-I-R-E. Wow. Sea asparagus. Yeah, so many little, yeah.

Fascinating. I think it's a, maybe it's not a relative. Maybe it's just like a seaweed. But it's pretty good. That's one you can forage pretty easily. Nearly all seaweeds are edible. So, you know, if you're out and about and good source of iodine i'm sure yeah well yeah but as with any plant james asparagus has its own ideal it's called sea beans what sorry i've just sorry serene i've ruined your episode sea beans yeah no yes what fucking americans call

it what a stupid name i, we do ruin most things. Yeah, like, I don't know. It's a little too straightforward. It's literally mentioned in King Lear. Like, why do you have to change it? Shakespearean vegetable. Wow. Well, today's about asparagus.

Today we're talking about asparagus, not a sea bean. Maybe next time. But, James, as with with any plant the asparagus has its own ideal growing condition so let's get into that where is an ideal growing condition for an asparagus a good amount of sun is ideal asparagus needs at least eight hours of sun per day and since asparagus is a long-lived perennial plant it should not be planted where trees or tall shrubs might eventually shade the plants or compete for nutrients and water. When it comes to the soil, the crown and root system can grow to a large size, which can be roughly 5 to 6 feet in diameter and 10 to 15

feet deep. Therefore, when possible, you should select a soil that is loose, deep, well-drained, and fertile. On sites with poor soil, incorporate manure and compost into the soil, and plant and till under two successive cover crops the season before you plant your asparagus, and you should be just fine. Asparagus is planted in the spring. The simplest method is to plant one-year-old crowns, and you lay down the ground soil prior to growing asparagus for the first time, and even though the young crown will appear to be a lifeless mass of roots, it will begin to send up small green shoots shortly after planting. So as I mentioned, asparagus is planted in the spring, but it's also one of the very first crops harvested during the spring season, and that

means, metaphorically, it represents the transition from the frozen winter months and its emphasis on root vegetables to the abundance and newness of spring yeah asparagus for farmers can mean even more farmer lee jones from the chef's garden says quote the farmer is an eternal optimist always hoping that next year will be the year. The year when rain falls in exactly the right amounts at exactly the right times. That it's never too hot and never too cold. And the weather is exactly what we might wish. No season is ever perfect, of course, but try telling that to a farmer

as he or she sits in front of a cozy fireplace in the wintertime, feet propped up, looking through seed catalogs and dreaming of spring. Winter refreshes us, and asparagus represents the hope of renewal and the optimism of what spring might bring. When it's time to begin harvesting asparagus, farmers smell the earth again, see the earthworms, and listen, Farmers smell the earth again, see the earthworms, and listen, once again, to the killdeer and the blackbirds. This portent of spring is a welcome celebration. Asparagus is a recurrent affirmation that winter is over and delicious treasures from the field are eminent.

This man loves asparagus. Yeah, that is a man who, yeah. And farmers, apparently. That's not my recollection of winter this man has never been very wet very cold i suppose not yeah yeah doing a christmas lambing i suppose you can think of asparagus as a very patient vegetable it rests quietly underground absorbing nutrients from the soil and remaining underground during the freezing winter months before it begins to push through the soil when it the start of the spring season. In 1956, the New York Times published an article calling asparagus the healthy, quote, spring tonic for weary appetites. Just thought that was a fun fact.

That's all for that. Asparagus can grow quite fast too. You can cut asparagus in the morning and it just keeps growing. And here's a fun fact for you. In ideal conditions, asparagus can grow 10 inches in a 24 hour period. Yeah, it's crazy. That's fast. It takes a long time to get ready, right? It takes like three years and then it just... Yeah, I mean, look, it's definitely an investment of time for it to grow that way but it sounds like it's worth it if you love asparagus like farmer lee jones up there yeah he does do another little veil of eve schimpfactoid please the church in brexton has a stained glass window which is a glass of asparagus no it doesn't it's a depiction of asparagus i No, it doesn't. It's a depiction of asparagus. I will find it for you, Shireen.

Like asparagus has Jesus? No, it's just asparagus in the window. Oh. Like it's not asparagus Jesus. How is that less weird? I don't know if that's less weird or not, but. I'm just going to find it for you here. Well, it says grass underneath.

I'll just drop it in the chat. Get a live react. No. Yeah. It has a little twine wrapped around it too oh yeah yeah well that's how you do a round of grass yeah you do them in dozens right and then a dozen dozen you wrap around that that is that's a stained glass a depiction of asparagus okay yeah cool next to godliness as they say oh i'm getting into why that might be the case so just to reiterate how much patience and time you yourself need if you do want to plant asparagus

because although green asparagus is typically what's seen in grocery stores it comes in all the colors that we said but no matter what color it is it's important to protect the strength of the root or else it won't succeed in growing. And this is how gentle you need to be. First, you plant the three-year-old roots. And if the asparagus root is in its first year in growth, which is really then its fourth, you should only pick it for one week because you don't want to zap the root strength. Then after two years, which would be really its fifth, you pick it only for two weeks.

By the time it's four years old, which yes, really its fifth, you pick it only for two weeks. By the time it's four years old, which yes, means that's a seven year total, then you can harvest it for longer amounts of time. A good plant, though, after all this process, can last up to 20 years. So it's important to let the young ones build up strength for the future. We mentioned this before, James gave it away, but in Europe, chefs almost always use the white asparagus, rarely the green ones. And this is because the white asparagus beautifully offers up the luscious notes, apparently, of corn and sweet cabbage. But European farmers,

the reason why this is, is that they mound and pack soil over the asparagus plants to block the chlorophyll process. And this is the process that ends up creating the white color when you block it. And these plants need to push hard through the soil. And because of that, they end up with tough outer skins that need to be peeled off, which is not the case with the green variety. And then this adds labor like expenses and time into the mix of harvesting it. And a lot of people think that this results in the most nutritional part of the vegetable being thrown away. So why? Yeah, why you dang it? It's one of the things I wrong about. Here are some more fun facts. Chefs say that to enjoy the bright green flavor

of asparagus, you salt your water before blanching. And then since the ends of asparagus are extremely tough, the best way to prepare the asparagus is to snap the ends off, which you probably already know. But you usually can find a slight bend where it can be broken off, and this will preserve the most asparagus possible. You want it to have a good snap,

though. It is fun when that happens. I like a good satisfying snap sound. That's when you know it's a fresh one. If it's if it's got like a squeeze if it's floppy then it's probably it's been out for too long you have to eat it very fresh it's very important they would uh drive up to london got me in a really early morning drive up to london and sell it to you know london people of which i'm not one and and then uh would have their... It's a very luxury vegetable. Wow.

Yeah. It is. It's not a cheap vegetable. I'm going to get into the royalty of this vegetable. That has been called the king of vegetables. But first, we're going to take a break. So go grab some asparagus and we'll back let's talk about some history of asparagus the exact origins of asparagus are hard to pinpoint although it is known to the eastern mediterranean and parts of asia asparagus can be found naturalized in many parts of the world today

and it is unclear exactly when it was naturalized. How long the plant has been used as a medicinal vegetable is also uncertain, but it was known and highly prized by the Romans since at least 200 BC. The Romans were apparently very knowledgeable about the difference in quality and the difference in varieties that they experimented with and they knew the best places to grow the crop. The most popular way that the Romans enjoyed to prepare their asparagus was to pick it, let it dry, and then when they wanted to eat it, they would simply cook it for a few minutes. Ancient royalty seemed fascinated with asparagus. Roman Emperor Caesar Augustus was said to have organized elite military units to search out this vegetable. He would then locate the fastest runners to take the fresh

asparagus spears into the frozen Alps for storage purposes. Ancient Greeks, meanwhile, harvested wild asparagus and connected this vegetable to their goddess of love, Aphrodite. Numerous other cultures have also considered this freshly sprouted asparagus a symbol of fertility. And so the history of asparagus goes back a very long, long way. And speaking of the Greeks, the derivation of the word asparagus also gives us some idea of its early history. So asparagus was first cultivated, some people think, around 2,500 years ago in Greece. And this is significant because the word asparagus is a Greek word, which means stalk or shoot. And so it makes sense that the word is rooted in ancient Greek, but that word in ancient Greek is actually asparagus, and it can be identified in various literature with two

meanings. The first is found in Homer's Iliad, and it is used in this context to mean throat or gullet. The second place it's found, it's referred to as the edible shoots of stone or spirage. The Greeks believed asparagus was an herbal medicine, which among other things, would cure toothaches and prevent bee stings. We have seen reference to the fact that at one point, this Greek word referred to the young edible shoots of any plant that shoots up from the earth, but we cannot verify this fact. So maybe. In the area of ancient Greece known as Boeotia, historians say that, quote,

After veiling the bride, they would put on her head a chaplet of asparagus, for this plant yields the finest flavored fruit from the roughest thorns so the bride will provide him who does not run away or feel annoyed at her first display of peevishness or unpleasantness a docile and sweet life together oh good yeah feminism alive and well yeah i didn't know i was going to be suggesting an anti-woke vegetable i mean it's a little bit uh uh returnee you don't have to be anti-woke to eat asparagus no you don't you don't now it's it's come a long way let's come on reclaim it yeah we'll bring it back let's let's take back asparagus yeah we'll start there it's like you know small steps other ancient cultures that apparently were obsessed with asparagus the asparagus plant appeared in an egyptian freeze about 5 000 years ago with queen nefertiti allegedly an asparagus fan archaeologists found traces of

asparagus on dishware when they were excavating the Pyramid of Saqqara, along with other coveted foods like figs and melons. Apparently in the Egyptian culture, this vegetable was considered sacred and used in religious ceremonies. And then in ancient China, honored

guests were treated upon their arrivals with an asparagus footbath. Wow. I didn't see that coming. I know either. Its uses are renowned and wide. About 2,000 years ago, a poet and Latin language prose writer and Platonist philosopher named Apuleius fell in love with a wealthy widow named Pundantilla.

Knowing he needed to pull out all the stops to get her, he wooed her with a special dish that contained asparagus, along with crab tails, fish eggs, bird's tongue, and dove blood. He was accused of using magic charms to win her heart. And even though he successfully defended himself against his accusations, through this story, we can clearly see there is certainly something magical about asparagus yeah i'm concerned about a crab tail yeah as i read that i was like that's not a thing but uh maybe it used to be you know maybe maybe maybe that'll be my next episode what happened to the crab lost its tail?

Yeah, maybe it's about lobsters. Yeah, maybe that maybe that's the case. Basically, a seafood little guy with fish, eggs and crab. Also bird's tongue and dove blood. Yeah, that's a bit weird. He loves me on that, to be honest. Yeah, romantic. Yeah, I assume we're coming to the asparagus recipe section.

Not yet. Later in the podcast. I will let you proceed. Let me just zoom through the rest of this really quick. When Emperor Charles V of the powerful Habsburg Empire decided to visit Rome, and he was alive between 1500 and 1558, he visited Rome without warning anyone of his arrival. A sense of panic ensued because the

emperor had arrived during a time of fasting. One clever cardinal sent cooks to work in creating three different asparagus recipes. They set the plates on perfumed cloths and offered the emperor three exquisite wines. He was said to praise the delicacies and he was offered for years to come. And so for centuries, people have talked about asparagus, and they've also included asparagus in their Easter dinners because of its fast growth in the spring and how this can symbolize resurrection. by Wolf D. Storl, has numerous asparagus anecdotes to enjoy if you're into that sort of thing, and also contains this quote by modern-day plant experts Fritz Martin Engel. And this quote effectively sums up the types of people who have appreciated asparagus over the centuries. Quote, pharaohs, emperors, kings, generals, and great spiritual leaders, princely poets like Goethe and Gormans like Berlant Saverin, all of them ate and eat asparagus with great enthusiasm. Let's get into the word, as I mentioned earlier, it comes

from the Greek word asparagus, g-o-s is the end of that. So the word asparagus was eventually developed into the word asparagus in classical Latin, but then it was shortened to asparagus without the A in medieval Latin. According to the world of wide words, it first appeared in English around 1000 AD, and then by the 16th century, it was commonly referred to in English as sparich or sparage. At this point in time, similar to other English language developments, there was a reversion back to classical Latin roots that was encouraged by academics and herbalists. So asparagus came back into use with the A. But when it came to common use, the A was still dropped and people called it asparagus, spirograss, sparrowgrass, and then also just grass, which was another shortening that people

still use today. After the demise of the Roman Empire, little is heard of regarding the history of asparagus for a while, but evidence suggests that asparagus was being grown in French monasteries in 1459, but then it's unheard of in England or Germany until the mid-1500s. By the 16th century, asparagus starts to appear in history books again, where it gained popularity in France and England. From there, the early colonists brought it to America. The French were the main exporters of the crop at the time. And if you wanted to please the Sun King, aka King Louis XIV of France, you can bring his second wife, Madame de Matinon, sorry, a new asparagus recipe and apparently that was very pleasing to him she gathered them into a book and asparagus soup a la matanon is still prized today asparagus is

also because of this called food of the kings and king louis the 14th was so fond of asparagus that he ordered special greenhouses built so he can enjoy asparagus all year round me and louis the 14th just commenting on how me and louis the 14th yeah same dude many ways love a good asparagus recipe oh you were like handshaking yourself yeah i was doing that yeah yeah i was i did not catch that yeah got it the medicinal virtues that are attributed to asparagus are a wide range. The roots, sprouts, and seeds were used as medicine. The fresh roots are a diuretic. A syrup made from the young shoots and an extract of the roots has been recommended as a sedative in heart issues. Among Greeks and Romans, it is one of the oldest and most valued medicines. It was believed that if a person anointed himself with a liniment or liquid

medicine made of asparagus and oil, that bees would not approach or sting him. I mentioned this kind of briefly earlier, but that's how you do it. Don't get stung by a bee. Coat yourself with asparagus juice. It was also believed that if the root is put on a tooth that aches violently, it causes it to fall out without any pain, if you want that to happen. But how did the asparagus cross the Atlantic? There is little evidence of when exactly asparagus migrated over to the Americas, and again it's assumed that settlers brought it over along with other vegetables at the time. It's believed that in the 1700s it was planted initially in New England, and then by the 1850s, it had found its way to North California.

There is early evidence based on seed catalogs of the crop being sold on a commercial level in the early 18th century in eastern parts of the country. Wild asparagus, as we mentioned earlier, is a thing, and it's seen as early as the 19th century. It can be growing along the east coast in scattered locations and across temperate North America, and apparently 36 states have reported to have wild asparagus. Another kingly reference of asparagus is apparently in Germany. Asparagus was called spargel. Spargel took hold in Germany around Stuttgart in the 16th century, and around the same time it was already being taken off in the UK. and around the same time it was already being taken off from the UK. Initially, it was grown exclusively for the royal court,

earning its nickname Konneximus. Muse. Konneximus. It basically means royal vegetable. And there are two primary growing regions in Germany where asparagus is in abundance. One of them is Schwitzvingen, and it's where Karl Theodor, Prince Elector, started a green asparagus growing competition among the princes in the 17th century. And then the other region, Schrobenhausen, it's also steeped in asparagus history, and it houses the European Asparagus Museum.

history and it houses the European Asparagus Museum. That's a thing. An asparagus museum. You know what else might have a museum? All of these ads one day. Probably not. Bye. Listen to and we're back okay james i do think it's fairly interesting that there's an asparagus museum in europe but i also think it's interesting that you literally grew up in a town that had an asparagus mascot can you please explain this to me as someone who does not know what that means i can i can explain a little bit of the asparagus mascot. So I lived near Evesham when I grew up. Evesham, of course, gives its name to the Vale of Evesham, which is the area where asparagus was. It was actually the last British product

to get a protected origin status from the European Union before Britain terminally fucked its economy by leaving the european union and and so it's uh this area around the vela beach and we can't call it vela beach asparagus unless from the vela beach i've just learned that the little purple tips on the spears that's not normal apparently that's just in the vela beach so it sounds like a made up place but i understand it's british and that's why. Yeah, it's in Worcestershire. Not made up. Worcestershire, by the way, is how you pronounce Worcestershire.

Is that Warchire? No, people fucking... But it's one of those words. I didn't actually think that was what it was called, but I would actually maybe mispronounce that, probably. Yeah, it seems like one of those words that really flummoxes the American mind uh so yeah i grew up in the valley of evesham and uh in the valley of evesham we grow a lot of asparagus and very proud of it so we have an asparagus festival if you want to get really like hokey and english uh which people in england do be loving to do especially

people of a certain ethnicity uh that like you generally pick asparagus from saint george's day to midsummer's day right so george is the patron saint of england and catalonia so if you want to get really sort of parochial about it you can get a little nationalistic on the asparagus i think most people don't but we started in evesham evesham used to have an asparagus festival we had a little mascot right dressed as an asparagus as you do like literally a man in an asparagus outfit like walking around yeah so there have been two generations um the first one i think we've mentioned the purple tips and that it just looks like a dick he looked a lot like a dick he looked like a canker in his penis i mean fertility was known for that yeah this one didn't look fertile

this one looked best avoided if i'm honest uh i looked like they they retired him in 2008 and was based in with gusty asparagus man who if i'm honest doesn't look as asparagusy because they've given him sort of a flower tip like a broccoli looking thing yeah he it looks a bit like a wheat kind of weedy kind of mapley it's not full asparagus um there's also an asparagus fairy i've seen i've not personally come across the asparagus fairy but i've seen that in some images fairy yeah you want to let me just drop this in the i don't think you told me about the fucking fairy it's just a non-stop learning journey for sure this is insane first the stained glass but i still can't believe that's a thing uh wow yeah y'all what yeah we'll make maybe we'll make

this the um the image for the episode this is a good image this is a great image it's a classic image yes you've got a man dressed as king saint george cannot not king george different maybe we can photoshop our faces onto that yeah that would be great let's do it let's do it it'll be it'll be highly entertaining so yeah you can uh you can go now i think it's in bretford yeah it is in bretford where you can have the asparagus festival and what the festival is is like the first auction of asparagus right and then they'll auction that off for a local cause normally the first you know the first full bundle of asparagus first round as it's called and that will immediately get bought up by someone

the people pay hundreds of pounds for it wow and then they rush it off to their restaurant in london right and they make it for their fancy fancy people to pay fancy money for this fancy vegetable famously i famously i perhaps overstated that gus the asparagus man was refused entry to uh the houses of parliament in the united kingdom maybe maybe 10 15 years ago now because his costume presented a security risk. Wow. Wait, okay. As someone who's had asparagus in an asparagus town and also here,

is there a difference in taste? Yeah, yeah, definitely. Fresh asparagus is a lot better. When you get it in American shops, it's very woody. Like it doesn't have that kind of... I would describe raw asparagus when it's fresh. You know when you get peas and you've grown peas and you're having the peas yeah so it has that yeah love a

fresh pea so uh it's got that kind of uh you can take that however you want um it's got that kind of pea freshness and sweetness to it that sounds really good it is really good shireen that's why we have a whole thing about it i don't think i've ever had good asparagus i'm not gonna lie i'm gonna grow some i don't i don't seek it out yeah we'll go on a world tour we'll do sea urchins they'll be a nice combination actually a bit of sea urchin asparagus so what you're doing with the asparagus right you cut it you just get it's hand cut right you're not going through like a combine harvester to do this you're going through it's a little knife serrated knife sharp on the back side you're not going through like a combine harvester to do this you're going through it's a little knife serrated knife sharp on the back side you're just cutting the stalks and you immediately you level them off right at the base so you sort of so that the the point the tips are

level and then you just cut across the base so some of them are going to have more of the woody white base than others the part that's the green part has been above the soil and then the white part's below right right so you're doing them you get your round or you get your however many asparagus you're getting right you get it very fresh often when at least when we would buy it we would just buy it like from farm shops or by the side of the road and we never grew it because it was just like a lot you could get a lot more from just doing other vegetables um but you'd buy it the day it was harvested then you drive it home you immediately put it into boiling water just briefly right and then you pop it out you don't need to cook it for very long if it's good if you don't want to cook it for very long right just just softening it a little bit and then if

you have it with the traditional way to have it is with butter which kind of uh you know does away with the zero cholesterol benefit nice to dip in a in a soft boiled egg i mean the health stuff was just like a fun tidbit yeah yeah yeah it's a luxury eat it how you want yeah have it however you want dip it in a in a soft boiled egg where you boil the egg but the yolk is still running and you dip the asparagus in yeah never even thought of that combo yeah it's a good one it's lots of uh what's a good childhood memory is the old asparagus and egg uh yeah lots of fun ways to eat it other things about uh the veil of eve from asparagus yeah he gus the asparagus man he visited the uh i want to repeat that he's called gus sorry gus the asparagus man sorry uh he visited the european parliament where he read and there is uh

true we don't see a video of this actually Shireen would you like to see a video of this actually Shireen I think this would be good for you oh gosh so here's a video of Gusty Asparagus Man in the European Parliament reading a poem

England is crazy one of the more like oh my god yeah no you'll want to listen to it as well the great and noble Asparagus okay I'm sorry I'm sorry

I'm sorry I'm sorry she's doing it again he's reading a poem about asparagus that's correct yeah uh and then he's making a joke about about cider another great more of a hereford product but another great local product yeah yeah i come from the home home of, the asparagus man. I've enjoyed many, many asparagus. It's nice when we have really miserable, like January, February, even into March in the UK is miserable.

Like we get much shorter days, right? Because of being further north, it rains a lot. Like we don't get winters like the American cold places where you get like dry or like snowy kind of winters we just get like right around freezing and raining a lot of the time which is the worst weather that is possible to have and it's just fucking miserable so like when you're having the asparagus it's like a nice sign days our summer days are really long as well so you're getting these nice long summer days you're like starting to get like it comes

after what they call the hungry gap right that time in like february march where you're not getting as many of your fresh vegetables sort of the time when you're not really harvesting very much and so you're only got like your storage stuff right your apples and potatoes and so after that you get your asparagus and it's the start of your spring veg so it's a nice little uh nice little celebration of springtime yeah i mean yeah i didn't know anything about asparagus other than it made your pee smell until this episode so yeah we haven't even got why does it make your pee smell what what's is that the asparagine well okay asparagus makes your pee smell because when asparagus is digested asparagus acid gets broken down into sulfur containing byproducts and sulfur smells

like eggs and also apparently can smell like pee because sulfur in general is not pleasant to the smell and then when you pee these byproducts evaporate almost immediately and this is what you this is what causes you to smell that very unpleasant scent yeah you can tell if someone's been at the asparagus the answer is usually sulfur when it comes to food and smells yeah it is yeah bad eggs too yeah i want to end this episode with just a tale of a town in the u.s where it had the reign of king asparagus i want to just wow okay i want to talk about this for a moment. It was once the biggest U.S. producers of asparagus. Less than a century ago, the town of Aiken, South Carolina,

was known as one of the asparagus capitals of the U.S. Wow. From the mid-18th through the mid-20th centuries, cotton was the South's predominant crop, and Aiken was no exception to this. Just before the Civil War, cotton comprised nearly 60% of all American exports. The phrase king cotton, which was made famous by then-Senator and then-future governor James Henry Hammond, he implied that the European industry depended heavily on Southern cotton.

industry depended heavily on southern cotton. He owned the Redcliffe Plantation in Beach Island, Aiken County. Enslaved people obviously provided the labor for cotton cultivation, and so him, along with scores of other plantation owners, he hoped that buyers of southern cotton would fight against the blockade enacted by Lincoln's federal forces. And Southerners, because of this, were certain that their cotton exports were so crucial that Europeans would surely back the South in the event of a Civil War. Spoiler alert, that did not happen. And then by 1865, the outcome of the Civil War had planters looking at their commercial ventures in a new way. Farmers broke their dependence on cotton, and they desperately tried to find and locate another king crop. A variety of crops could thrive in the warm, sandy soil of Aiken. The first reference to asparagus being grown as a commercial

crop in South Carolina can be found in a 1903 pamphlet called Asparagus, Its Culture for Home and for Market. According to the pamphlet, the crop was first grown commercially in Charleston, where farmers produced a specific variety called palmetto. It was cultivated especially to flourish in the southern climate, and soon this specialized variety spread into Aiken, Williston, and Bamberg counties. By 1918, the Clemson University Department of Agricultural Economics reported that the state had about 1,100 acres of asparagus under cultivation. Fast forward to 1937, this number increased to 8,700 acres. So area residents enjoyed their share of fresh asparagus, but most of it was sent to New York City, Philadelphia, and Washington, D.C. From the 1920s through the mid-1950s, asparagus was gathered daily and shipped by train to its northern destinations.

Shippers often wrapped the delicate spears in Spanish moss gathered from the live oak trees that abounded the city. The crop flourished commercially for almost 30 years until production slowed down in 1953. World War II may have lessened the workforce available to farm the crop, or perhaps the marketing success from the California competitors was more effective than South Carolina's. It is also possible that the varieties grown in Aiken and the surrounding areas were more susceptible to diseases that weakened the crops. And so, although several farms

near Aiken still grow asparagus, according to AikenRegional.com, the reign of King Asparagus is over. Sad. Yeah, not here. Still king in my heart. I just thought that was a yeah funny little tale

yeah that's asparagus for you uh thank you james for motivating this knowledge that i now have that's okay take that carry that with you for the rest of your life use it wisely thank you and yeah that's this episode of eat could happen here here. Until next time, I don't know. Just go to sleep. Bye. Hey, guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome back to It Could Happen Here. I'm your occasional host, Molly Conger, and it's just me today, but I've got a weird one for you. Now, I don't know if you remember, but a few months ago, I did an episode about a ring of Hitler-loving Zoom bombers running a national campaign to disrupt public meetings. Those guys were mostly members of the Goyim Defense League, an anti-Semitic group of freaks who just love getting a rise out of people. They were calling themselves the City Council Death Squad, and they've disrupted hundreds of virtual public meetings from coast to coast over the last year, everything from zoning

boards in New Jersey to City Council meetings in California, even dipping their toe into messing with online meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous. They mostly seem motivated by their insatiable need to force strangers to hear them say the n-word, but I do think they understand that their behavior limits people's access to local government. Many of the cities they targeted responded by ending virtual participation in government meetings. That means fewer people participate, it's harder to engage with local government, and people just generally feel less safe and less motivated to pursue the kinds of redress available to them through local democracy. And I'm glad we did the episode.

I heard from people in maybe a dozen cities all over the country who found the episode online when they were trying to figure out what the hell happened at their own meeting. And the guys doing it liked the episode so much that now they use my name when they call into meetings to scream slurs, which is a less positive outcome. But what can you do? I assume if the mayor of Redlands, California Googles me, he'll figure out I wasn't the one doing Holocaust denial at his meeting. But overall, this seems like the kind of thing that would be prosecutable, especially considering we know the real names of many of the group's ringleaders. Well, someone has finally been indicted for orchestrating hateful Zoom bombing in virtual city council meetings. But it isn't them.

It's something much, much weirder. Last month, feds unsealed an indictment against a man named Mohamed Al Hashemi. He's a Syrian national, from Albania, currently living in England. al-Hashemi. He's a Syrian national from Albania, currently living in England. And according to the federal prosecutor, he was the mastermind behind a Zoom bombing ring that targeted the Fresno City Council in the summer of 2020. He's been charged with one count of engaging in repeated harassing communication, one count of engaging in anonymous telecommunications harassment, three counts of a classic 18 USC 875C transmitting threatening communications, and one count of conspiracy for doing all of the above, right? So there's a

conspiracy and then those other charges represent the overt acts of that conspiracy. Now, again, I'm not a lawyer. I'll tell you that every time. I don't know all the laws. And so this is the first time I'm realizing that harassing someone by phone is a federal crime. I mean, it makes sense, right? Of course that's illegal at the federal level too. I just didn't think about that the last time we were talking about Zoom bombing. I mean, the obvious charge is interstate threats. If you make a threat using a phone, the internet, or the mail, that's federal territory. But prosecutors are sometimes a little gun-shy about threats. They want a slam-dunk case. They want a true threat,

right? Something that is undeniably an actual threat before they'll bring a case like that. So I thought they'd have to get a little creative if they wanted to indict Zoom bombers. But if you're just talking about harassing phone calls, it's actually pretty straightforward to bring a federal case against the guys doing this. So two of the charges in the indictment are for different subsections of 47 U.S.C. 223, obscene or harassing phone calls. Subsection A1C is making a telephone call or utilizing a telecommunications device. Right. So that means it doesn't have to be a literal telephone. It can be a Zoom call. It can be any kind of telecommunications device, like text message, et cetera. Whether or not conversation or communication ensues, which means, you know, repeated harassing hangup calls count too. You don't even have to say

anything without disclosing his identity and with the intent to abuse, threaten, or harass a specific person, right? So this subsection is specific to the fact that they were using fake names. And then subsection A1E is making repeated telephone calls or repeatedly initiating communication with a telecommunications device during which conversation or communication ensues solely to harass any specific person. Both of those counts carry a maximum sentence of two years, and they're usually just punished with a fine. Not that serious. The other counts are a little more serious. Interstate threatening communications can get you up to five years per count, and some of these calls had some pretty violent language. I'm interested to see how they move forward with the threats, though.

The actual intent or ability to carry out a threat doesn't necessarily matter if the person the threat was made to was in reasonable fear from it. But I'm sure we'll see it argued that, you know, he was in Albania. He never planned to go to Fresno to hurt people. The obvious counter to that, though, is that he did literally say he was in Fresno and there was no obvious indication to the victims that that wasn't true. And he's also charged with conspiracy. The indictment refers multiple times to unnamed co-conspirators. So this isn't just one guy making racist prank phone calls. This is an organized and intentional conspiracy to engage in harassment and threats.

And that conspiracy is a little grim. The FBI and the UK's Metropolitan Police Force did find and interview at least nine members of the group they're saying al-Hashemi was leading. And the reason they aren't named is because they are children. The children interviewed by the FBI had pretty consistent accounts once there was a federal agent in their living room telling their mom about the Albanian Nazi they'd been chatting with on Roblox. Okay, not exactly Roblox, that's a little hyperbolic, but the raids were coordinated on a platform called Gilded, which is kind of like Discord and is owned by the same company as Roblox. So it's mostly used by gamers to talk about gaming,

but also apparently for doing federal crimes. But the kids all said the group's leaders were users named Insino, that's I-N-S-E-E-N-O, not Encino like Encino Man, the Pauly Shore movie, and sapper. Many of the kids correctly ascertained that Encino, the user feds have identified as al-Hashemi, was older than they were and European, but spoke English very well. I went back and pulled the public access TV recordings of some of those meetings and listened to the calls attributed to al-Hashemi, and he really doesn't have an accent that I could hear. You know, you don't gotta hand it to him or anything. But he does say the n-word like a red-blooded American racist, so I guess he

had some practice. The kid interviewed by the Metropolitan Police Service at his parents' house in London said that Sapper was a college student in the United Arab Emirates. Although in the footnotes, the FBI agent indicates that actually Sapper is in Jordan, but, you know, close enough for a teenager. I can't find any information about whether or not charges are being pursued against that user, either in the US or in Jordan. He isn't identified by name at all,

but he does appear to be the only other adult discussed in that document. The English teenager said Sapper loved spamming the calls they raid with ISIS gore videos. The criminal complaint details seven incidents of Zoom raids in June and July of 2020, five of which were meetings of the Fresno City Council. One was a Jewish religious service conducted by Zoom in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and the other was some random couple's wedding in upstate New York. But the incidents described in detail in the complaint are clearly not the only ones that happened,

just the only ones being charged at this time. When FBI agents interviewed a 13-year-old boy in Oregon, he told them the group's leader also enjoyed Zoom-bombing parent-teacher conferences, specifically at schools that had had past active shooter events. The boy said Encino, again, that's al-Hashemi, according to the complaint, loves to offend people and talks about racist things more than anyone else. But you know who doesn't love to offend people?

The sponsors of this show. And we are back. I hope you enjoyed those products and services. Hopefully none of them were for online chat platforms where European neo-Nazis are recruiting your kids. All right. So all these criminal charges here are related to conduct that occurred in the span of less than five weeks, four full years ago. in the span of less than five weeks, four full years ago. But for as long as it took to actually indict al-Hashemi, it looks like the feds acted pretty quickly after the first few threats were made. They were sitting at the dining room table talking to a kid identified as RB by August 27th, barely two months after the call started. RB is described as a juvenile with a history of making

threats who lives in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Now, obviously, it's impossible to identify this minor and probably not a good idea to do, even if I could. I am dying to know what exactly that history of threats looks like. I found a couple of news stories in the year or two before this about teens in the Spartanburg area who'd been arrested for making threats. Now, obviously, again, even in those news stories, if a minor is arrested, they're not identified. So there's no way to sort of connect these two unnamed teens. But I did find a story about a ninth grader who posted a Snapchat on the day of the Parkland school shooting in 2018. It was a photo of the teenager holding a realistic fake

gun with the caption, round two of Florida tomorrow. Again, it's impossible to say if there's any connection, but the general age, location, and interest in school shootings definitely caught my eye. Another member of the group identified as a minor named CG in North Caldwell, New Jersey, sometimes used the name Adam Lanza during the Zoom raids, an homage to the Sandy Hook school shooter. And when the FBI was chatting with RB on August 27th, he told him about another user in the Discord who posted often about his desire to carry out a school shooting and wanting to kill. A few days after that, the FBI agents were sitting down with that 13-year-old boy and his parents in Oregon. That boy, identified as PM, told the agents that Encino wasn't just interested in Zoom bombing,

but the group also doxed people, naming a bizarre list of targets ranging from Jewish leaders to yoga teachers and cooking classes. PM also told the agents that Encino had doxed a former member of the group, a girl identified in a footnote as LT, after a disagreement over whether or not they should be using so many racial slurs in the prank phone calls. Now, I know I said it wasn't possible or even advisable to try

to identify these minors, but it turns out it is possible and she's not a minor anymore. I don't know, maybe the rule is if you're old enough to drive drunk, you're old enough to get talked about on a podcast. She's got a court date coming up for a DUI arrest in April. The girl identified as LT was doxxed by the group's leader in July 2020 when she was just 16. And we only have that 13-year-old aspiring school shooter's word for it as to why she left the group. Maybe it is possible that she disagreed with the racial slur-heavy call scripts, but I don't think that's because she's not a huge fan of racism. She shows up that same year in leaked Discord chats from the servers Groiper Haven and Nick Fuentes Unofficial, both servers for fans of Nick Fuentes. She identifies

herself as a paleo-conservative Christian monarchist and claims to know Nick Fuentes. When another user asks her if she likes Nick, she says, yeah, he's cool. But she takes issue with the fact that he wants to marry a white woman because he is, in her eyes, not white and says, whites are better than any other race and we need to stay inside of our own race. A few sort of vestigial stitches of videos with her now banned TikTok account show her in a Trump shirt and MAGA hat giving the camera this weird Kubrick stare as the text, girls that think communists should be jailed, appears over her head. You know, kids will be kids, right? Just classic kid stuff, wanting to imprison your political

enemies and being really opposed to race mixing. Well, last summer, she gave a speech about cancel culture to the Berks County Patriots, an anti-government extremist group that sent charter buses to the insurrection. And public records show she received a stipend as a legislative intern at the Pennsylvania House of Representatives. The teenage griperiper-to-legislative-aid pipeline is something that should concern us all a little bit more. But doxing LT seems to have frightened some of the other kids. PM, that's 13-year-old in Oregon,

told agents he was worried the group would dox him if he tried to leave. BO, a minor in North Carolina, told agents he believed Encino had access to his computer via spyware. AM, a 17-year-old in Maryland, provided agents with screenshots showing Encino had access to his computer by a spyware. A.M., a 17-year-old in Maryland, provided agents with screenshots showing Encino had posted his address and discussed having him swatted. And this is such a messy, ugly thing, right? So first of all, these are kids. They're kids, right? One of them is as young as 13. And that has to be front of mind in all of this. But even if they lack the frontal

lobe capacity to really understand the consequences of saying you're going to kill someone, this isn't just normal kid acting out behavior, right? PM told other users he wanted to shoot up his school. AM posted often about wanting to build bombs and blow things up and expressed a lot of interest in ISIS. They were all calling into these meetings and saying the most shocking, upsetting things they could think of. And it's not 100% clear why, right? Like they didn't all necessarily have the same motivations or understandings. A teenager identified as KH told agents, the goal is to create such a disturbance

that the hosts have no choice but to terminate the meeting. Hurting people's feelings along the way is completely in bounds. And the slurs were just a means to that end. He said they would, quote, just have fun in there. AM told agents he was just posting, quote, random things.

But he also admitted he hates Jews. And so maybe it's a meaningless exercise to try to nail down exactly how ideologically committed these teens were to this project of racial and religious harassment. But al-Hashemi is also not the first Nazi to see the value in recruiting teens online. They may just be kids talking shit right now, but if you hear a kid talking this type of shit, don't brush it off, right? This starts somewhere. This edgy, shocking, unserious sort of 4chan style racism crystallizes into serious ideological commitment for some of them. And I hope these kids' parents were able to provide some meaningful intervention after they found out what their kids were up to online. And back to that timeline, right? So the indictment

only lists the June 2020 calls as the overt acts of the conspiracy. But the date range for the charge conduct is actually May 2020 to February 2022. And maybe that means they plan to introduce additional evidence of other calls to support the conspiracy claim. It's hard to say. They're being pretty tight-lipped about it. Reporting by Jason Kobler for 404 Media says the Department of Justice declined to comment on the possibility of anyone else being charged. And the criminal complaint goes into some detail about interviewing multiple cooperative minors. But it is possible the records they got back from these various platforms led them to other co-conspirators who are old enough to catch a federal charge. There are a lot of details missing here that we'll just have to wait for. The docket shows that Al Hashemi has retained an

attorney. I assume they wouldn't have unsealed the indictment if they didn't have him in custody, but there's no information available about when or where he was arrested and how that extradition is coming along. And it's interesting to me how incredibly similar the MO is in this case to the ring led by the Goyim Defense League guys. I mean, it's not exactly a complicated plan. It's not hard to believe that racists who never met each other would independently arrive at the same gross way of bothering people. But take, for example, one of the incidents in the indictment. A man that they allege was al-Hashemi called into the Fresno City Council meeting on June 11th, 2020, during public comment. He pretended to be a local resident named Brian, and he started off pretty normal, saying, you know, I agree with the previous speaker.

He's sort of indicating that he's interested in and engaged in the topic of the meeting. He expresses an opinion about the topic at hand, which happened to be police funding. meeting. He expresses an opinion about the topic at hand, which happened to be police funding. And then suddenly he pivots to a violent call for murder of Black residents and repeatedly uses the N-word. And so after that call ends, the council's on high alert for disruptive callers. So subsequent members of the group don't bother with a script or a backstory. They just start shouting slurs the second they connect until they're booted from the call, right? So in this case, the caller after fake Brian was that minor from South Carolina. And when his call connects, you can hear him laughing and he just says the N word and they hang up on him. I don't know, maybe I'm too hung up on the structural similarities here. I guess that's just

classic crank call procedure, right? You start off with a reasonable ruse. You get the person you've called to believe this is a real normal phone call. And then you shock and upset them by making a hard right turn into the, I guess you can't really call it a punchline if it's not funny, but you know what I mean. But if you took the names out of this indictment, you could mistake these descriptions of calls for city council death squad scripts. But they didn't start doing their Zoom bombing until the summer of 2023. And according to this indictment, the FBI agents were having uncomfortable conversations with teenage boys all the way back in 2020. So I think if there was any overlap between these two Zoom bomb rings, we'd know by now. I think this is just unrelated racists reaching the same horrible

conclusion. But if those guys are listening, I hope they hear the significance of that timeline. Within weeks of that first Zoom bomb in this indictment, they had search warrants for the homes of two of the minors on those calls. I think a lot of people assume that if they don't get caught, they aren't going to get caught. You see that a lot in tax evasion cases, right? After you do it a few years in a row, you figure they're never going to get you, so you keep doing it, you get a little bolder, but they're just taking their time and building their case. Just because you haven't been caught yet doesn't mean they don't know you're doing it, you get a little bolder, but they're just taking their time and building their case. Just because you haven't been caught yet doesn't mean they don't know you're doing it. So who knows, maybe we'll see a similar indictment against the GDL guys a few years after they started doing it.

There's not really a button to put on this one. We'll have to wait for more filings in Al Hashemi's case to learn anything more there. But if you know any teenagers, check in with them. Make sure they're actually playing Roblox and not being coaxed into doing federal crime by a Nazi in Albania. You know what me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, entrepreneurs and more after those runs the conversations keep going that's what my podcast post run high is all about it's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories their journeys and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together you know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real inspiring stories from the people, you know, follow and admire join me every week for post run high. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the

heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me in a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands,

for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Black Lit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life.

Listen to Black Lit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love.

Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First, no matter what happens, remember to breathe. It's always good advice to breathe, but taking good advice is easier said than done. Sometimes the world is so overwhelming that any added weight, even the weight of oxygen in your lungs, feels like it might be enough to drag you down. This is one of those times. The last week has brought about 10 years worth of news, and we are all processing the seemingly inevitable

coronation of a dictator and the sudden hope and possibility inspired by Joe Biden's stepping down from the nomination. Welcome to It Could Happen Here. I'm Robert Evans, and this is a podcast about things falling apart and sometimes about how to put them back together. The last time I sat down to talk with all of you like this was in the immediate aftermath of the Trump assassination attempt just before the Republican National Convention. I told you not to panic. That's still good advice. I also told you that no matter how bad or good things may look, literally anything can happen in U.S. politics, and by God it has. I felt it was necessary to deliver that message because I saw an awful lot

of people declaring, we're doomed, fascism is inevitable, and quite frankly, I think shit like that only helps the fascists. Well, it turned out I was right. A lot has happened over the last two weeks, and the situation now is very different than it was the day the former president took that grazing blow from a sniper's bullet. As is usually the case in instances like this, I've had a lot of people reach out to me since that episode saying versions of, how did you know? And as good as it might be for my career to lean into that side of my reputation, the truth is that I am white-knuckling it through every twist and turn like everyone else. I spent

the RNC wondering if I'd been foolish telling people not to panic. And yes, I feel a hell of a lot better right now. Of course, I don't know what comes next. I just know that we're done with the portion of this mess where we spiral in a hopeless mire. That was last week. This week, the outlook is a lot better. And not because Kamala Harris is our savior or because Nancy Pelosi is a 3D chess master, but because men age and die. This is a fact I tried to remind myself of as I groaned through that disastrous debate with the rest of the country. On one hand, I tried to remind myself of as I groaned through that disastrous debate with the rest of the country. On one hand, I felt like we were all about to watch one ailing, power-hungry man hand the keys to the kingdom over to a cadre of bloodthirsty fascists.

But on the other hand, there's always something inherently optimistic in this simple reality. The people who would be our rulers will all die someday. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish. So long as men die, we have hope. I stole that line from Charlie Chaplin. He put it in the mouth of his character

from The Great Dictator, a movie he produced at great personal cost in 1940, right as Hitler and the Nazis reached the apex of their power. A rational analyst staring out at the playing field after the fall of France could be forgiven for having seen the outcome as certain. Great Britain stood alone, Hitler's armies victorious in every theater, and the future of democracy and human liberty gasping for breath. One such rational analyst

was Joseph Kennedy, U.S. ambassador to Great Britain and patriarch of the Kennedy family. Joseph was a man of wealth and power, whose sober judgment and cunning had seen him short the entire U.S. stock market and the kind of fortune that let him buy his way into the ranks of global royalty. He was a man who had predicted the future once, one big, and he let that convince him that he had the second sight. And so in November 1940, less than a month after the release of The Great Dictator, Kennedy found himself in an interview with the Boston Globe. Looking out at the ruin of Europe and the bombs falling on London,

he told a reporter, democracy is finished in England. It may be here. Here, of course, being the United States. Now, the resulting blowback to all of this saw Kennedy forced to resign his ambassadorship. The very next year, Hitler invaded the Soviet Union, and for several brutal months it looked like Joe had been right. Not only might democracy be finished, but every system besides fascism might be hurtling towards annihilation and bondage under the swastika. Depending on how you count it, the Third Reich, and fascism as a whole, reached its greatest extent of territorial power in either mid-August or September 1941. By November of 1941, a year

after Joe Kennedy's remarks to the Globe, Operation Barbarossa had been wrenched to a bloody halt, and the long battle to push the fascists back and drown them in the waters of their birth had begun. And so, in the end, it was Charlie Chaplin, not Joe Kennedy, who had the proper measure of things. Liberty survived because men died, many millions of them, from Kiev to Canterbury. We live in very different times now. The armies of fascism are not primarily conquering land under arms. The primary terrain of our present conflict exists within the hearts and souls of men and women. And while populism is still a favorite mechanism of action among the fascists,

they have, in this country at least, given up on victory by sheer weight of numbers. It's true what they say. War never changes. Weapons do, but the core of all human conflict revolves around the capture and denial of territory. If you can't occupy ground yourself, you must at least deny it to the enemy. In infantry combat, this is the primary use of a machine gun, not to kill people, but to blanket an area in bullets and stop the enemy from moving through it.

In our modern war of thoughts and feelings, the machine gun has yielded to the firehose of propaganda and disinformation. These have always been parts of the fascist arsenal, but the internet has allowed an increase in the scale and speed of their deployment that is very much comparable to the replacement of bolt-action rifles with automatic ones. The forces of basic human decency have a natural advantage in terms of human terrain that should be impossible for the fascists to counter. No matter what the bastards say, most people want to be left alone with the people they love to live their lives. The forces of hate, the people

who want to throw trans kids and their parents in gas chambers and drown migrants in the Rio Grande, tap out at a little over a third of the population. Max. If you want to return to World War II metaphors, and why wouldn't you, the monsters are stuck in tiny landlocked Germany without any gas or steel. The only way for them to access the resources and territory they need to maneuver themselves into a victory is by cutting us off from each other and keeping us too confused and divided to surround the bastards and smother them all for good. They do this by convincing you that you are isolated, alone, and surrounded by them. Our hopelessness is their force multiplier. When leftists in the U.S. look out at Ukrainians struggling for survival and write

them off as Nazis, as deluded tools of imperialism, when liberals in blue cities decry college students protesting on behalf of dying Palestinian children as agents of Hamas, the lines of solidarity between us snap rather than wrapping like a garret around the throats of our opponents. This is why you've seen so much allegiance and sympathy between the cruelest and most deluded segments of the Western left, the people who laughed at Syrian civilians sheltering from Bashar al-Assad's bombs and called them the CIA, and the agents of Putin's Russia and Peter Thiel's neo-monarchist right. The Thiels, Bannons, Putins, Erdogans, Trumps, and Modi's of the world know how lonely they are. The only way they can win is to convince you

that you're alone. Then they have you at a disadvantage. Then they can kill us one by one. You know, there's no smooth way to transition to an ad in a piece like this, but here it is. We're back. Now, I'm not a Jungian, but I do sometimes tend to think of humanity as a single vast gestalt organism, groping for survival and comfort in a world that mostly exists beyond what we can see. The majority of people are happy existing as part of that vast whole. We take comfort and safety in our communion with the rest of the species. But there are a few diseased minds out there that don't believe in the rest of us. These solipsists see themselves as the only minds,

and the perpetuation of their own power and will as the only real good. That's why men like Peter Thiel seek physical immortality, and it's why men like Vladimir Putin or Hitler seek the kind of immortality that comes from welding the edifice of a nation-state to themselves. Hitler is Germany, and Germany will last forever. Elon Musk sees his children as an extension of himself, and his fantasies of space colonization are really just a fantasy that he will remain central to humanity's future down through eternity. Musk has repeatedly identified himself as a pro-natalist, and he believes his responsibility is to have as many children as possible

to secure a pro-human future. The term pro-human might confuse you, given the lack of concern he has for the children being bombed in Gaza or who will surely die in the mass deportation camps the Republican Party is currently salivating to open. But the only real human Elon sees is himself, which is why he equates the survival of the species with his own ability to breed. As I type this, video has begun circulating around the internet from an interview Musk conducted with Jordan Peterson for the Daily Wire.

In it, Musk explains why he has now fully embraced politics, endorsing Donald Trump and declaring himself at war with wokeism, which he describes as an existential threat to the species. He claims that what cinched this for him was his daughter deciding to transition. It happened to one of my older boys, where I was essentially tricked into signing documents for one of my older boys. There was a lot of confusion.

And, you know, I was told, you know, might commit suicide. It's incredibly evil. And I agree with you that people that have been promoting this should go to prison So I was I was tricked into doing this You know wasn't explained to me that puberty blockers are actually just sterilization drugs So I lost my son essentially so you know they They call it dead naming for a reason. Yeah, I...

So the reason it's called dead naming is because... So my son's f***ing dead. Killed by the woke mind virus. Musk's child is not, in fact, dead. But they have expressed an identity utterly separate from Elon. An identity he cannot understand. Because Musk can only see his children as an extension of himself and his ego. This is, in fact, worse than death.

It is a threat to Musk's own life. This, incidentally, is why Musk and his fellow travelers see transgender kids as such a threat. Accepting a trans child, even if you don't fully understand how and why they feel the way they do, is one of the most radical acts of love imaginable. To do this means that you have accepted, on a fundamental level, that your children are autonomous beings, not an extension of you, but something new,

wonderful, and unique. The essence of parental love is to give your children to the world. This means accepting that you are finite, that the world goes on without you. If you see all humanity as an extension of your own ego, nothing could be more frightening. The people who feel this way, people like Elon, are mutations, a glitch in the human system that starts as a glitch within the heart of an individual. It comes as a byproduct of success

in the very visible, spectacular ways that feed narcissism. When I think about stuff like this, I refer often back to a great article by the anthropologist Richard Lee, Eating Christmas in the Kalahari. Lee spent years living among the Ikung Bushmen, a Bantu-speaking hunter-gatherer group

who were seen by anthropologists as some of the people still living in a manner most similar to our ancient ancestors. One Christmas, as a show of gratitude to his hosts, Lee purchased a massive ox for the holiday feast. He was excited to show this great gift off to his new friends, and he was proud of himself for having gotten it. And he was utterly shocked when they responded to his pride with mockery of him and his ox, insulting it as scrawny, tiny, hardly fit to eat. Now, this shocked Lee because the ox he had purchased was, of course, quite large, and it was eventually explained to him that his friends were reacting with mockery, not to his gift, but to the evident pride he had shown in it. Bringing in a

great beast's worth of meat, either as a hunter or from buying it, as Burton did, is the kind of thing that can go to a young man's head. If you are the one with the pocketbook or the one who fires the arrow, you can forget that the meat before you, the meat that you've brought into the community, is not the product purely of your own genius, but is a product of all of the time and resources invested in you by the community. The shaming of the meat, as this tactic was called, is a time-honored way

of correcting the glitch in young men of the Ikung before it can turn terminal. As one elder in the tribe eventually explained to Li, when a young man kills much meat, he comes to think of himself as a chief or a big man, and he thinks of the rest of us as his servants or inferiors. We can't accept And speaking of cooling your heart, why don't you cool your heart with some ads? And then we'll come back to conclude this in a little bit. We're back. It has been theorized that the shaming of the meat is a social construct that may help to explain one of the evolutionary values of satire, perhaps even why humanity keeps producing comedians. They act as a part of our species' immune system. When this glitch in the hearts of young men isn't punctured, when it's allowed to take off and dominate them, then it changes them on a fundamental level,

and the being that it leaves in its wake seems to understand instinctively that laughter is a danger to it. This ultimately explains why Musk purchased Twitter and why Barack Obama's mockery of Donald Trump during that White House Correspondents' Dinner set us all down the dark path that we currently are walking. So clearly, humor alone doesn't always save us from these kinds of people either. What will? I have several times in my various shows identified myself as an anarchist, and I tend to do that even though I don't feel fully comfortable with the title because brevity matters. I'm speaking to a mass audience, and using that word gets us

close enough for the sake of a podcast. But I'm not an anarchist in the sense that I have some sort of clear vision for how to build a utopia. Obviously, I do think anarchism has some answers for how human beings might build a better world. That's why I went to Rojava. It's why we cover a lot of the things that we cover on this series. But I am primarily an anarchist because I understand that hierarchy kills, because I understand that hierarchy separates us from each other and acts as a petri dish within which this glitch can propagate. I'm an anarchist because I love the people around me, because I understand that I am human, and because I see that my role in the human immune system

is to remind other people of that fact and to point a finger at the people who have forgotten that they're human. I promised in the title of this little piece that I would tell you how we can win, and I can do that in a few words. We have to remember that we are humans. Kamala Harris is an authoritarian. The fact that she wants to be president at all should make you leery of her. But she's not a Trump or a Musk. She has not separated herself entirely from humanity. If you'll forgive the reference, she understands that she exists in the context of all that came before her.

Joe Biden has been hungry for power all his life. The glitch is in him. It has consumed most of him. But as we all learned recently, not all of him. He too understands that he is a part of humanity, indivisible from it. Now you can and should still view the man with disgust, even hatred. He ought to be in the Hague. But he also stepped down and gave up the thing that, a week ago, I'd have said probably mattered most to him in the world. This was not a purely

selfless gesture. I'm sure he acted in large part to try and salvage his own legacy. But it is also not a thing Donald Trump could ever do. You certainly wouldn't see a man like Vladimir Putin make a similar choice, and we've all seen the kind of slaughter Bibi Netanyahu is willing to back to hold on to power. None of this redeems Biden or makes him a good person or any less complicit in genocide than he was a week ago. I think it does put us in a better position when it comes to fighting for a ceasefire in Gaza. Everyone in U.S. politics knows that Biden's political end started with the surge of uncommitted voters in Michigan. The loss of a second term is not a sufficient punishment

for Biden's actions, but it is a punishment that has the ability to reshape the kind of risks U.S. presidents will and won't take for Israel from now on. It has also helped me make sense of something that happened in 2020. You all remember the moment. During the one presidential debate that year, President Trump attacked Biden over the numerous scandals of his son Hunter, a troubled drug addict who tried and largely failed to use his father's name to secure wealth and standing for himself. Hunter's troubles have been tremendously embarrassing to his father. But up in front of the country and world, Biden refused to throw his son under the bus. He embraced him and

expressed the kind of unconditional love that is utterly alien to men like Trump and Musk. Biden, for all the evil that he has done and the raw selfishness that allowed him to reach the presidency in the first place, is a man who loves his son. Most importantly, he loves Hunter as Hunter and not purely as an extension of Joe Biden. There's an excellent series of articles out in the Atlantic right now by Tim Alberta, who might be the finest political journalist writing today. Tim had the good instincts to look behind the scenes at the team Trump picked to orchestrate his 2024 campaign, and he's delivered deep reporting about why they've made some of

the baffling decisions that they've made. Chief among bafflements was the selection of J.D. Vance as vice president. Vance barely won his seat in Congress with the help of tens of millions of teal dollars. He is a liar without principle who has repeatedly expressed his desire to tear up the Constitution and usher in a new Red Caesar to bring this nation to heel under men like him. I watched Vance's speech at the RNC live at a Heritage Foundation party surrounded by the rightest of the right. Not one of them offered a single word of praise. Vance was that bad.

J.D. is the sort of pick Trump's handlers were sure that they could afford to make. Vance would bring the Silicon Valley billionaire set to the table, open up their purse strings, convince them they were welcome in the new ruling class. Sure, he wouldn't bring any votes, but a week ago, running against Sleepy Joe, the sick man of U.S. politics, Trump's team felt they had votes to spare. Well, now the worm has turned. The polls still point to an election that is deeply in doubt. But polls don't say everything. The panic of their responses to Biden's stepping down,

the chaotic spree of hate, points to a single truth. They don't know what to do now. The monsters are off balance, stumbling, unable to find the ground. We can see some evidence of this in the fact that Musk just came out and canceled his promised $45 million monthly donations to the Trump campaign. This is the first chain of solidarity between our enemies to crumble, and it won't be the last. Every time that happens, we get more room to move and maneuver.

The fascists may well regain their footing in time to crush us, but something else has happened in the last few days as well. People, we humans as a vast, blurry mob, have started to remember how many of us there are, and how much potential the weight of our numbers gives us. We have started to reconnect with each other, and that has also opened up possibilities that did not exist before. Kamala Harris and the Democratic Party aren't going to bring an end to global capitalism or drive a stake into the heart of the oil and gas industry. There remains so much else to do, so many other fights ahead of us. But if we can crush the Republicans here, it will be the fourth election cycle in a row where the right made a war on trans people, on the concept of diversity, on any kind of open

secular society, the core of their electoral efforts, and it will be the fourth time that they have done that and lost. If we break their lines and send them fleeing into the hills, we have an opportunity to shatter their power and use the momentum of that victory to start building something better. There's no clean or easy route to a better future, but our chances are a hell of a lot better the more of us that stay alive, and the more scattered and frightened that we can make our enemies. Our strength has always come from solidarity, from the understanding that we need each other and that we are part of each other. The Putins and Trumps and Musks and Teals of the world are, of course,

a part of humanity as well, but they are incapable of seeing or accepting that. And so long as that is the case, we outnumber them. So long as that is the case, we can win. Hi guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all.

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Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It could happen here. It could happen here. The podcast that is about, I don don't know how everyone hates trans people and how this has become a sort of cross-partisan thing uh i'm your host mia wong we are we have been doing oh god i don't even know what sort of number of d of rnc episodes are going to have come out before this thing before you hear this episode but we we are once again, turning away from the Republic,

from the, the sort of chaos and despair of the Republican party to turn towards the chaos and despair of the democratic party. Yeah. We're going to specifically be talking about a series of what I think were kind of high profile fights in trans circles over sort of the administration, very publicly starting to write off trans kids i don't

think it got that much news attention because as you as you may have noticed it is you know a lot of this is by very specifically biden administration stuff we are recording this sunday morning the morning of the 21st there is a real chance that by the end of the day biden is no longer the nominee so we'll get into that a little bit but as of right now he's still the guy and he is fucking us so yeah with you to talk about this is corin Green, who we have had on the show before, is a trans policy expert of many organizations and much experience. And yeah, welcome back to the show. Hey, thanks for having me, Mia.

Yeah, it's kind of fun to come back on to talk more about this because the timing of when you had me on last time was pretty much just before a month before he went public with this new stuff we're going to talk about. Yeah. So the last time we were talking about this, it was largely about stuff that was kind of like buried in bureaucratic minutiae. Whether or not any of that stuff even exists anymore, given recent Supreme Court rulings that have effectively annihilated the administrative state, who knows? But now, having had the Supreme Court gut their ability to do this sort of non-plausibly, they have full on gone on the record against trans kids. So I guess I want to start there. Can you sort of explain what happened with this New York Times story that kind of kicked this whole saga off? Yeah. So kind of the context is I'm a trans policy analyst. It's what I do. There aren't that, unfortunately, are not that many of us in the country. And those of us, many of us are still

employed in the movement organization, so they can't talk about this stuff publicly. But so he's been putting out the regulations that the Biden administration has been putting out are not good regulations for trans people right but it's hard to help people understand that they're transphobic because it's a 500 page regulation and so yeah you know it's it's kind of wonky a little weird and if there is comes like the biden administration and the orgs have been putting out calling him pro trans and all this stuff, there's a big barrier to overcome there with wonky stuff like that. But what happened a couple of days after the debate, which I'm sure everyone saw, or if you didn't watch it live, you realized the horror that you now had to watch it to understand what this country is going through. now had to watch it to understand what this country is going through. There was some initial reporting around how the WPATH Standards of Care version 8 came out.

So WPATH is the World Professional Association for Transgender Health. It was either last year or the year before they updated the Standards of Care 7 to Standards of Care 8. This is a little background, sorry. And at the time, there was discussion among WPATH members, doctors, and kind of policy people to some degree about whether mentioning kind of rough ages for what time, what age people tend to start certain treatments like period blockers, hormones, that kind of thing. What kind of normal age ranges those things happen in? We know from years and years of advocacy and work and activism is that if somebody writes something like those things down, even if they present it as a kind of loose

guideline, or this is where things typically fall, policymakers will write that stuff into law and reg and take what is supposed to give doctors and patients you know room to figure out what works best for them and make it a very strict regime and so trans activists did not want ages in the w path sock eight for that reason and in the one and only instance of pro-trans advocacy that i'm aware of her ever engaging in, Rachel Levine in HHS kind of advocated with WPATH not to

include those age ranges in it. Levine, by the way, is like the only Deputy Health Secretary, I think. Yeah, she's like the only trans like... She's the highest ranked trans White House official ever. By like an order she's like the only trans like she's the highest ranked trans uh like you know white house official

ever by like an order of magnitude she's like she's like the only trans person like openly trans person possibly in history to ever like get to a position where she has some authority and she doesn't use it ever except this one time it's a big disappointment to people i was i was her biggest fan in the world because she passed uh she wrote pennsylvania's narcan standing order and i based my law in louisiana legalizing narcan and our subsequent standing order on hers so i thought it was really cool that trans firms had done this in both places and i really really was a big and then she just crickets nothing it's all this terrible stuff happens so that's the context in which the new york times was uh reporting they they somebody had gotten like some bad guys had gotten some

of the emails between levine and w path and were like trying to make it into a scandal right and they and the bad guys misrepresented kind of what the the and discussion was about, right? So we discussed what it was, but the way that they would present it as, oh, WPATH was trying to limit treatments to kids being old enough of a certain age, which is not what they were doing. And they were trying to present Levine as trying to get rid of those so that five-year-olds could have surgery or whatever. And so, you know, just very, very insincere.

But so the media was kind of reporting just on that because they love muckraking. And partially, the other thing we should mention is it was really, it was extremely hard to figure out what was going on for the issue reporting because the New York Times, instead of employing trans journalists, they employ transphobic journalists. And the thing about transphobic journalists, they don't fucking understand policy at all. They're absolute fucking clowns.

These people have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. And so when they're trying to write a story that's about leaked technical policy documents, they have no fucking idea what they're doing. And the reporting is gibberish. I was trying to understand it it and this was a real issue because the only source we had was this document of this new york times writer who like couldn't like the new york times writer who like couldn't find the back of their hand with a map right trying to like write out these emails i'm convinced cis people

don't even understand that they don't know what they're talking about because I think they just inherently feel like, Oh, I have a gender. Therefore I know everything about gender. I can do this. It's like, you know,

and like, I, I, I, and it's, this is like mostly kind of like fine ish. But the problem is when you have, you know,

when you have cis journalists who don't know anything about trans like people at all who in a lot of places don't think trans people exist trying to write these policy things it's they they have nothing and yeah so it wasn't presented super clearly and so other people had questions some justified some, some based on that misunderstanding, some not. But anyway, there was additional kind of back and forth between the media and the White House. They were asking about it. And in that, the White House at one point told them that they opposed surgery for transgender youth. transgender youth um and then obviously that is at least publicly that is a new position for the president who has isn't has been called not by me but by other people you know 100 pro-trans super

great ally his entire administration i disagree with that but other people have been saying that for a long time and so that took a lot of people by surprise and was a big kind of kerfuffle. And so that's kind of the jumping off point for where we're going here. And so that happened, that came out on a Friday in the New York Times that the White House opposed surgery for trans minors. And nobody talked to, there were no responses from the orgs. There was no additional reporting, no follow-up from the White House that Friday, not that Saturday, not that Sunday. Although, that Sunday, Sunday evening, the heads of three national,

large national LGBTQ advocacy orgs, HRC, Family Equality Council, and National LGBTQ Task Force, went on all three together, an MSNBC show. The host, I don't remember his name, but he has an MSNBC show, writes for Washington Post, has an MSNBC show, writes for Washington Post, and then also contributes to PBS NewsHour, right? And so none of these three people that we pay to advocate for us, or this journalist, brought up this very fresh,

very pertinent, very relevant, new White House position. They just talked about how important it is to vote and how much fun they had at pride parades instead garbage right and so it was very weird to me that these three people who represent lgbtq advocacy organizations would not immediately vocally condemn that kind of anti-trans stance and it also blew my mind that this journalist must be like allergic to scoops or something like why why wouldn't you this like that's your chance right there i mean and i i genuinely think the

journalist didn't know because like this stuff didn't break out of like a very small sort of like transphere by this point right i mean it's in the new york times you're given nobody actually like but like like nobody cares about like people people don't care about us like you you would think that these people would know but like i i genuinely don't even know if this person had any idea what was happening because i i trust journalists to write about trans people about as much as i trust myself to be able to bench press a car so right you know yeah so that came and went sunday evening no i and i was going insane the whole time right because for for me as a trans policy analyst you know i have i've been i've noticed and been and called been calling biden's transphobic regs and

executive orders and stuff problematic and transphobic since i first noticed it and picked up on it which was you know two or three years ago now uh and so for for me it was a very kind of complicated feeling of okay now at least other people don't have to take my word about the regs they're there's something they can look at and see it for themselves but i was also you know completely threw off my sleep schedule i was bouncing off the walls going insane trying to you know organize responses and so the first org actually i think i believe it was hrc issued a statement monday night and it was a decent statement i might have critiques of them whatever and then the rest of the orgs kind of didn't issue statements until Tuesday evening. And so that Tuesday, also, the White House issued a statement to clarify their position. And the statement actually made it worse.

So what the statement said was that they do oppose surgery for transgender youth. So they reiterated that. And then it went on to say, however, we continue to support gender affirming care for youth, such as mental health care, period. I mean, it was a comment that they said, but they didn't list other things that they supported, right?

It's like the only thing they put in the list that they supported was mental health care, which to a policy person, again, you're not sneaking those things past me. If you're talking about trans health care and the only thing that you say that you support is mental health care, I'm very worried. I'm very concerned, right? Because if you're pro-trans and you support trans access to healthcare, it is not complicated or hard or controversial for you to say, yeah, you know, I support trans people and their access to healthcare. They should have access to therapy, hormones, puberty blockers, surgery, whatever they need.

Like it's not complex there. Right. But they didn't do that. even worse than kind of the initial position because it signaled to me that there's likely um we're likely kind of losing them on not just surgery but some of this other stuff and so two hours later that statement was updated uh revised and it took out saying they support mental health care and was changed to say, we support gender affirming care, like a continuum of care and use the words continuum of care instead of mental health care. Now that doesn't, that feels like tripling down to me because the problem was that it was very overt what you left out and you had the opportunity to go back

and fix it and then you continued you just made new words that very overtly leave out the kind of things that we would need reassurance about right um and so that's kind of where things were at at that point uh and yeah we're gonna let's let's leave it there for a second to turn to the people who are funding us talking about this, which is the, I was going to say the noble products and services. I cannot promise their nobility at all, but the products and services that support this podcast, here they are. yeah and we are back and there's one other thing i want to mention before we sort of get into where this went which is part of the fear that was going on is that at the same time as this

is all happening labor has taken power in the UK and the labor government, they're fucking. Okay. What, what, what can, what, what can I say about the, about West reading that won't get me impaled on a cross?

They're militantly transphobic piece of shit. I think it's like their health secretary now. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Minister is over there. Don't forget yeah yeah their ministers came out and said we're gonna ban all children from getting puberty

blockers not just on the nhs but also privately all private health care everyone yeah and this is a this is an absolutely sort of terrifying step it is going to get a lot of kids killed i also want to reiterate yeah already already has there's a whole scandal over there about like about the number of joe the good law project has you know done the research into like nhs minutes and all this stuff and has thinks that there have been 16 suicides since this yeah and i i also want there's like a sort of debunking thing that's going on that was from data that like that the party released that was like oh there weren't actually that many suicides and the thing you have to understand about those numbers is that those numbers don't count people on wait lists and the wait lists are they're not the only place that people die but they kill a lot of people so i want to sort of like yeah we we got to get that

sort of context in which is we're in this position it's not just streeting right they're all it's farmer and then there are a whole lot of very vocally transphobic labor mps yeah and and that you know that's there's a lot of fear that the democratic party can sort of take this even more extreme path than the sort of stuff we've been saying and also you know i'm going to include the standard thing about puberty blockers which is we give these we give puberty blockers to like literal like five-year-old cis children they're fine it's complete like they're completely safe there's no there's no downside apparently people blockers only have dangerous terrifying side effects used and they can tell when they're in a trans body and it's this body yeah they only

do the bad things in trans bodies we've created the trend specific bioweapon like you know so like this all of this stuff is safe and it's not only safe it saves lives like the the difference between you know like any trans person can tell you the difference between being on your hormones and being off your hormones is night and day it is the difference between being alive and not being alive like it is the difference between having sort of like a stable like stable interiority and feeling like you don't exist every fucking day so we're not just talking about being on your right hormones but in this case we're also talking about preventing being on the wrong hormones right which can be even more

excruciating yeah it's terrible like yeah and so there's there's this real fear that what we're seeing here is a pivot to uk style stuff and one of the things i do in the uk that was specifically worrying about that language about mental health care is one of the big turf tactics is pushing this thing where we go oh well we're going to have this like you know we're going to give you mental health care we're going to like help you figure out what your gender is i call it like exploratory care this is conversion therapy that's what they are talking about and you know seeing the white house suddenly pivot to this language that is effectively identical to again the uk thing where they're like we're going to give these kids

conversion therapy was terrifying yeah and then so the the i i think that the space between that Friday with the New York Times article and then the Tuesday with that clarification, I think the fact that the orgs were so quiet and didn't offer any pushback and didn't organize community to demand better to ban, they retract it. Like, I think that that's what gave them the room to essentially double and triple down in that statement on Tuesday. And so that coincided, unfortunately, with a couple other anti-trans developments in the Democratic Party in a way that I find very worrying, especially when taken kind of as a constellation, right? So that same week, the Senate Armed Services Committee, so ndaa is a large military funding bill it's the national defense authorization act and the the house has been passing versions with lots of transphobic writers in them and then for the last couple years the senate has been taking those out and passing a clean version and then ultimately it's a clean version of the gets enacted. Last year I was very very worried that we would lose on that and that it would go through with

the riders and the implications here so the DOD, Department of Defense, funds healthcare for the VA and TRICARE. I think there's one other smaller program kind of similar that's a different name whatever but largely VA and TRICARE so um active service members and their families and veterans which is i think i last read like 10 million people or something and so if they cut off public funding for trans health care through those programs a whole lot of people are going to lose it and we're going to very quickly wind up in a situation like abortion is with the hyde Amendment, where no public money can be used on our healthcare. And so that week, at the same time, the Senate Armed Services Committee had their version of the NDAA in committee. Joe Manchin voted with Republicans to attach these transphobic riders to it. And then it was everyone in the committee except for three people. I

believe it was Warren, one other Democrat, and then I think possibly one Republican who voted against it. But all the other Democrats on the committee voted to pass it out of committee with those transphobic rioters, which is terrifying. Yeah. And Senator Kelly has introduced a floor amendment to take those out. But whether his amendment even makes it to the floor, I don't know. And what the vote looks like on that, I don't know. So I'm really worried that the NDA will pass with these riders in it. And then subsequent spending bills for other departments will as well.

And then simultaneously, there's the third thing. Over Biden's term, he's had over 200 of his judicial nominees that he's offered up. And over his whole term, not a single time has a Democrat opposed one of his judicial nominees. But that week, Asaf actually opposed one of his judicial nominees over the fact that she had sent a trans woman to women's prison. So specifically a transphobic reason for objecting. And so she didn't get nominated. And that was the first time that has happened over Biden's term from what I read. And so there are just lots of these signals that kind of back me up in my feeling that the support that you know everyone has been

pretending that the democratic party has for trans people i mean i i read their eggs so i know better but it is not it is an illusion right and when it shatters it's going to come apart really fast and people are going to be really surprised by it because our organizations have not been kind of educating people along the way yeah we're gonna we're gonna come back and talk more about this and we're also going to come back very specifically to the trans women in women's prisons thing because i really truly do not think since people understand how fucking bad that is um yeah we're going to come back to that after these ads. Yeah, so we're back. Yeah, so I wanted to specifically highlight Chris's thing in the context of, you know,

okay, so there's a chance by the time this comes out that Biden is no longer the nominee. Your lips to God's ears. Yeah. The issue with this is that the strongest possibility for replacing him is Kamala Harris. And, you know, I'm going to ask you to explain Kamala Harris's

record on trans women in fucking prisons because it is appalling. Because I can never escape these shit libs i actually worked at tlc while we were suing the state of california tlc uh yeah transgender law center um tlc we had to to sue the state of california for incarcerated trans people to be able to access health care that they deserved and kamala harris as the ag of the state of california uh defended the the state's position that they did not they did have a right to health care we won she lost but so she is she is not someone that i can ever trust with trans lives right especially because there have been other issues.

I think marijuana most recently, where she has tried to kind of trumpet that she has used her discretion and not prosecuted certain things or whatever, right? And that doesn't help me at all, right? Because it shows you know you have prosecutorial, you know, you have discretion in what cases you take and what you defend and all this stuff and you used it to prevent trans people from getting health care yeah and i want to also specifically talk about the the part about this judge sending a trans woman to a women's prison which is the thing that you should do because

this is the kind of thing that has to be opposed at all costs because you know prison is prison is violent enough for everyone it is even worse for us and the fact that democrats are like you know it looks like we're seeing the sort of tide break on this and especially specifically on this issue where the consequences are so dire it is it is extremely bad yeah and so i kind of had the suspicion that there was a deal struck on the ndaa that democrats and this is solely me speculating right i have no insider information about this speculating that the the democrats kind of accepted a deal on the nda that there would be some level of anti-trans writers that they would accept and and into the enacted law um and that after making that deal the white house felt they could kind of move to the right publicly on trans people because you know it would be in the news from

the nda passing that they could start kind of preparing people for that by kind of making it public and kind of moving to the right word there right so that's kind of what i suspect maybe happened i don't know but it is it doesn't bode well for us especially because you know so the the white house's position has already been cited in at least one judicial opinion yep and then was also recently cited yesterday the day before yesterday or not no yeah friday yeah i think it was friday in new hampshire um as justification from governor sununu for signing their surgery ban there and so these things have immediate consequences even before they show up in executive branch policy and this is why i have been very convinced ever since kind of i read the policy tea leaves and the executive orders and regs

and kind of identified that we were dealing with a functionally a hostile executive branch i've been trying i tried as hard as i could to get movement leadership to switch from a kiss ass framework to a take names framework right yeah but they just they haven't done it so and the community just doesn't, it's going to feel like whiplash, I think, for a lot of folks who aren't kind of deep into this stuff. And don't follow me on Twitter to see me yelling about 500 page regulations. But it makes me worried that the leadership is not advocating for trans people appropriately. advocating for trans people appropriately. And I think that this is demonstrating that they're not,

they don't have leverage or they're not willing to bring leverage to bear on whoever the nominee is when it's not Biden, right? Like they're not setting the movement up to have strong footing to hold people accountable to trans equality kind kind of on the campaign trail and that's really scary um looking at labor especially as as kind of a blueprint yeah we're going to be talking oh god yeah we're going to be talking about sean o'brien's king dog shit weird fascist turn later with some teamsters well hopefully well we'll see we'll see what happens episode but yeah uh yeah it's very bad but also it's not we're not in a position yet where this is inevitable right right like it doesn't have to happen and the way that it gets this gets stopped from

happening is by us organizing and us fighting and us putting pressure on these people to fucking do this because you know and like this this is this has always been the thing like these people unfortunately they do need us right they hate it but you know these like the democratic party needs us yeah we got to see last month during pride month they all show up at pride parades yeah yeah right it's like y'all actually don't belong here um why why are you fuck off yeah and it's like you know they like they they they they have been successfully sort of like feasting off of the movement that we built for decades now yeah and it is you know if they're gonna fucking if they're gonna fucking eat our corpses it is it is it is absolutely time for them to fucking try to defend us and

the only way that's going to happen is if we we actually start mobilizing if we start putting pressure on these people to like not fucking back down and write us off for dead but the way that the national organizations have been moving right like the positive press and the praise that they've given to even biden's shittiest actions and inactions on trans people actively stymies community organizing right yeah because if i have to explain a 500 page regulation to show people that biden is transphobic that and they're just like no but look this hrc statement says it's actually great policy it's a big barrier to overcome yeah or community organizing there right so yeah and you know the the the other sort of issue here right is that the republican party

is i mean i don't know if hurling towards even the right word but they are they are very very very close to what is effectively like banning trans people from public life and their eventual goal of wiping us out. Right. Yeah. And, you know, if, if, if there's no actual force to oppose that, because all of these sort of national organizations are busy sort of kissing ass instead of actually fighting, we are in deep trouble. Yeah. And I think, and I think we are, I think we are in deep trouble. But like you said, it is not a done deal yet, right? I was actually heartened. I was very, I was terrified. So Zoe Zephyr, the trans representative, state representative for Montana, after the draft bad Title IX regulation came out, she organized an open letter from 14

out of 16 out trans and non-binary state electeds against it. They released it a couple of days after all of the orgs put out their praise word, their praising statements, and they looked really dumb. So she actually organized another open letter of out trans and non-binary state legislators against this. It wasn't the full compliment because it was over a weekend, really scrambly. But just like the Title IX one, Dana Carome and Sarah McBride did not sign it. Can you explain who that is, by the way, for the audience? Yeah. So Dana Carome is a trans state representative from Virginia. And then

Sarah McBride is an out trans legislator from Biden's home state of Delaware. And the McBrides are actually family friends with the Bidens. And Joe Biden actually wrote the foreword to Sarah McBride's memoirs, autobiography, whatever you call it, right? But she's also a Zionist and she is a kind of centrist center right Democrat who, you know, as I've talked to people, my understanding is that she didn't sign on to the Title IX letter because she has, you know, rising star in the Democratic Party aspirations. She's probably going to be the first trans congressperson soon. I hate it. to be the first trans congressperson soon i hate it um yeah and so i was extremely concerned that sarah mcbride who you know because of those ties and because she's probably going to be in congress soon is the most kind of politically powerful trans person in the country i was extremely worried that she was going to join the bind administration on this uh and so i i aggro posted the shit posted that are

for several days and thankfully uh she she did um condemn it and kind of bullying works bully your legislators yeah right go i i was i was seriously concerned about that because you know just these the forces this anti-trans dehumanization campaign is so powerful and so strong at this point that a lot of people are making the calculation that if they want to advance in politics, they got to mulch us, you know? And I don't think highly, I don't think highly enough of Sarah to have been confident that she wouldn't do that. I don't think highly, I don't think highly enough of Sarah to have been confident that she wouldn't do that. Yeah, and I think that's, you know, that's also one of the really hard parts about this is like, you, I don't know, as much as there is sort of intercommunity solidarity among trans people, you can't even trust your own people when they take power, right? Right. Right. And you know, this isn't to say like, this is one of the rare times where like,

I think there are like, there's some legislators who do good stuff. Like Zoe's effort has been doing great, but you have to keep the pressure on everyone, no matter who they are, no matter where they come from. You have to, you have to keep pressuring them because I mean,

that's my experience as an activist. Yeah. Yeah. If you don't, we're going to get, we're going to get left behind and left to die yeah and so like one of the one of the the ways that this has been so dismaying for me right is that trans people don't have any or any national organization that advocates for them full-throatedly principally uh in a trans maximalist kind of

unapologetic way right it's always all of the orgs all the lgbtq orgs and the trans pacific orgs which is kind of what i'm getting to all kind of take this very centrist tack or they have over the last several years with biden they were they were they were all kind of a lot happier to be radical when trump was president but but no longer yeah and my my main issue is even if you are you know a rich dc strategist who leads who runs these movement orgs like you know they are and you believe even you believe that the balance between strident principled advocacy and lobbying blazer tightened up moderated advocacy is way further in the moderated direction than I do. still understand the need for some group with a voice to articulate the trans maximalist position, to articulate the standards by which, you know, politicians are going to be measured if they're going to be considered pro-trans. And what we have not seen is the trans-specific organizations,

so specifically National Center for Trans transgender equality nct and uh transgender legal education defense fund till death they recently merged into advocates for trans equality which is abbreviated a4te don't ask don't ask but like why let the lgbt let let hrc do this interest bullshit let them put out milk toast statements let them praise politicians who don't fully support us right but we need at least one organization representing trans people to lay out the full case to present kind of our actual policy needs and be the rubric by which everyone else can be measured and also just for community education so we know so the community knows without you know people like organizers people like me trying to overcome these huge these huge walls to to get people to understand what's going on can can see what's being done to us, know what we deserve in terms of policy, and then measure what is actually being done for us against

that bar. Yeah. And I think that one of the other frustrating aspects of this, and this is something that you talk about a lot, is that the people who do the work in these organizations, right? You're sort of like, you know, you're sort of staffers or researchers, the people on the sort of bottom of the pyramid who make all this stuff function they don't get a say in how these you know and how how these fucking orgs put these things out no most of them are radical anarchists and communists like i am right they they really really want to do what we need

to be done and it's just you know comes down from on high that that's not what they're doing um and i and i know that i am not the only uh trans national org staffer uh who has been silenced by the white house or the white house reached out directly to my bosses i think i mentioned it the last time i was on yeah Yeah. But I know that's happened to my colleagues, friends at other organizations. And I know that I have a lot of privileges that, that a lot of people don't. So I can kind of get fired or I could not, maybe couldn't afford it anymore.

I get fired from my principals and I don't, you know, I don't, I don't judge, you know, my, my comrades and colleagues who are still kind of doing the best they can, but I'm really, really scared with leadership and the way that they have not

recognized kind of the situation they've gotten us into. Yeah. And I think the thing I want to close on is, what do you think are effective things that people can do sort of now, right. And people who aren't in the top of these power structures, although if you're, for some reason you're the head of one of these orgs and you're listening to

this, what the fuck are you doing? Please do better. But yeah, what, what, what, what,

what kinds of things can people do on top of sort of just like community education and yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I, I think the real thing i mean i've encouraged people to do this on on twitter as well is if you see one of these national organizations

fall short of a hundred percent and advocating for transit if you see them equivocate about you know maybe banning surgery isn't that bad because it's not super common or maybe it's okay not to demand that biden you know explicitly say that he supports you know these these parts of these components of our health care before calling him 100 pro-trans on health care yeah you know that kind of stuff um if you see them fall short of that you know don't trust them anymore don Don't donate to them anymore. Take that money, attention, time and energy and turn it to mutual aid efforts, to local organizing efforts, to supporting trans people in red states.

Campaign for Southern Equality just expanded their their practical support program to be not just a subset of of red states that they will help trans youth and families in but all red states that are that are facing health care bans and similar anti-trans measures support that fund right go look at and if you don't know of a of a local trans group or a state trans group near you doing good work um you can go to trans justice funding projects kind of grantee map um they're really low barrier only grant to trans led groups um and you can see what those groups are doing um and you can hook up with them or donate to them um but i think that the biggest thing is not i mean we, we, Lord knows we need

money. We're all poor as shit, but mainly, but mostly, honestly, what I think we need is we need vocal visible support. We need CIS people not to remain silent or passive when they hear or see transphobia or when they hear or see someone uh equivocating on well maybe you know maybe kids aren't old enough to be know they're trans like if you're that stuff sounds insane to actual trans people right but you know can take cis people right and so if you are a cis ally um being an ally is an action right um and we need that now more than ever as the stakes of the risks of uh being attached to us supporting us grow higher right like we need principled allies to stand with us um and so if you can do that in your daily life you can be a trans advocate in your kind of routine we desperately

need that yeah and i think that's a good i know that that that's a good sort of rallying cry it's like all you know and this is this has always substantively been one of the big issues with being trans is that we are one percent of the population right now right that's probably gonna rise in the future but right now our sort of distributed paul's like our distributed impacts on politics politics, we have an outsized impact on politics, but for 1% of the population, we can't fight 90%, 99% of the population. So we need your help, and we need not just sort of milquetoast lip service. We need to actually fight. milquetoast lip service we need to actually fight. Yeah. And we need people in your life to know,

you know, that you are fully pro-trans and that means that you kind of learn maybe how to talk about trans healthcare to educate other folks who don't know as much, or you are able to develop and kind of share a personal story about how you learned about trans people and, and became, you know, an ally. Right. So learning how to do that work I think is super important. So this, this has been a good happen here. Corinne, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me. Like I said, that timing of the last show made us look very, very smart. Yeah, we, I have, I have,

I have a weird knack for timing this stuff correctly for mostly for worse but you know it's yeah um this has been nicking up here you can find us in the places and yeah go go support the trans people in your life because lord knows they need it yeah and you can follow me yeah so i'm cranky Krenk Green, I share their pronouns, and I'm at GayNarcan on Twitter. You can find me there for hot trans policy takes that are not moderated by Centriscom staff. Yeah, and don't find me on Twitter. Absolutely not. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com,

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