It Could Happen Here - It Could Happen Here Weekly 145

Episode Date: August 31, 2024

All of this week's episodes of It Could Happen Here put together in one large file. Kamala Shuts Down the DNC Imane Khelif and the Co-option of the Mexican Terfs Transnational Repression of Sikh Independence Activists Political Cults: The Democratic Workers Party feat. Andrew You can now listen to all Cool Zone Media shows, 100% ad-free through the Cooler Zone Media subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. So, open your Apple Podcasts app, search for “Cooler Zone Media” and subscribe today! http://apple.co/coolerzone See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Call Zone media. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here. And I wanted to let you know, this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch. If you want,

if you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. All right, this is the last night of the DNC episode. We're reporting from our homes now, which is great because I feel like death. Garrison Davis is here. I'm Sophie Lichterman.

Robert Evans is here. We more or less survived the DNC. Sophie took a few hits there at the end. I took a few hits. So the DNC is over. It's wrapped up. It's all finished. Thank goodness. Tiring in a very different way than the RNC. And I mean, obviously a very different demographic. This is something that I noticed just as soon as I got to the airport. Like when I got to the gate for the RNC, it was like, oh, I'm here for the RNC. And when I got to the gate for the DNC, it was, oh, this is just a regular airport gate. This is just normal people. There's a very broad demographic that, you know, pretty fairly would represent

whatever city you happen to come from. And in calling these people normal, that's not saying they're necessarily good people, but they're normal that's not saying they're necessarily good people but they're normal people sure they're into politics maybe a little bit more than your average person but but by and large they are kind of regular people and including shitty in a lot of the ways that regular people are shitty about politics whether that be their views on palestine gaza queer people but it's a pretty pretty normal demographic base yeah it's the difference between like when selby and i showed up at our gate for the rnc we took off our masks because the threat at that point was being on a mask it surrounded by republicans right yeah it was like the risk to our lives was greater than the risk of covid to our lives.

Safety wise. Yeah. Whereas we just kind of treated the flights to and from the DNC like normal flights, like like you'd handle the normal precautions, just regular people. Some of that has to do with the fact that Chicago is like a much larger city. Yeah, sure. But yes. Chicago's like a much larger city. Yeah, sure. But yes. But I mean, I got into a conversation with a delegate from Georgia who was sitting right next to me. You know, young guy, mid-20s.

Very clearly, everyone on the plane was going to the DNC, at least for me. And yeah, I mean, you just had like a regular conversation. Was it Lil Jon? No, no, Sophie, it was not. Oh, okay, cool. Sophie, Lil Jon is a senior citizen now. It's little John. Thank you so much.

But no, he was this young, kind of nominally progressive Democrat who is excited. This is, I think, his first time going. Excited to vote for Kamala, much more excited about her than Joe. He also just finished his college program to get a criminal justice degree. So it's like, yeah,

this is who the Democratic Party is. Just random random kind of kind of queer but definitely cis dude uh like gay dude bisexual whatever but yeah it's gonna reform reform that criminal justice from the inside yeah anyway kind of just wanted to start about talking with this kind of this kind of general convention demographics because that's basically the same it felt well inside the convention as well yes a lot more what i will say is a lot more women who are like middle-aged at the uh the dnc like that was the overwhelmingly most common demographic on like at the convention that I noticed. And probably more racial diversity than a lot of cities, probably, honestly. Yeah.

I guess that's a good general sign, but it's not a great sign just in and of itself, right? I guess it's good for kind of the general future of this country, but it doesn't really affect many of the biggest problems that we're kind of addressing, whether that be Gaza, whether that be police brutality, whether that be all of these other things,

LGBTQ issues, the economy, right? That does not necessarily equal over onto any of those, at least at the DNC. But that is a general trend that the country is heading towards, it seems. So there you go. And my God, was is a general trend that the country is heading towards, it seems. So there you go. And my God, was there a lot of people. There was such an unhinged amount of people.

Like, I can't even. It was so much bigger and so much more crowded than the RNC. I said this online when right-wingers were trying to be like, there was nobody there, which was like, you're so dumb. It was vastly more crowded. But like at the RNC, most of the time, we generally had an entire row to ourselves. Yeah, it was always easy to find seating. Super easy to find a spot to sit anytime during the RNC. Not true for the DNC.

No. Very challenging to find a seat. And this kind of brings us to the last day of the convention horrible uh the three of us wrap up a very nice dinner with mr vermin supreme lovely possibly the most ethical presidential candidate this year the only presidential candidate who has been maced with a member of the cool zone media team uh we can say that much yeah so we wrapped up a great to dinner with him We walked over to DNC. Massive, massive lines coming outside. Terrible.

And then we get told, it's okay. There's a special press entry. So we bypass all those lines. We are feeling great. We are feeling like gods. Just passing by hundreds and hundreds of people waiting in line to get to the DNC. It was a very powerful feeling. I've never felt that empowered before. Oh, Garrison. Oh, you sweet summer child. hundreds of people waiting waiting in line to get the dnc it was a very powerful feeling i've i've i've never i've never felt that empowered before oh garrison oh you sweet summer child it was

wonderful it was really a rush that can't be described yeah i i almost didn't want to let you guys know that the whole venue is at capacity so we get up to the door after just breezing through going past all of those lines and we get to the door and all the doors are shut yeah there's secret service at every entrance saying that nobody can get in because the venue is at capacity and the crash oh my god the crash that we had from our high so so bad i talked to a couple of police officers outside the venue who were like, yeah, the fire marshals are here. Like it was literally I do think that it from and from everything I've read since I think their reporting was accurate. Yes.

Like there were just more people than were allowed to be in the building. They definitely let more people in than they should have. Yeah. However, there was a group of journalists with garrison and myself that were waiting to be let in and there was like triple the amount of people to journalists that left in the time that we were standing there which was a very long time and let me just say the service officer really enjoyed telling a bunch of journalists that we couldn't come in he was having a great night ruining our night i

mean there's nothing that makes me happier than making a journalist miserable so i i actually do feel some solidarity there you know i i would love to tell a bunch of journalists fuck you i i was certainly skeptical because of just how many people were getting let out i because i really i really wanted to see how full the venue actually was and after waiting for nearly for two hours two two hours, two hours. Two hours, two hours. I went home. Kabula's speech already started.

I abandoned you. And then some media logistics person from the Secret Service entrance, every five minutes, would point at ten people like they were the chosen ones to let them into the arena. chosen ones to let them into the arena and on round three or four gare and i did in fact get in and run up like seven or eight flights of stairs which i'm still feeling you made the cut you made the cut we did i bet tim walls whispered your very names into the ears of that secret service agent although i do feel like uh a piece of me is still on those stairs because it was brutal it was bad and then we got up to to to kind of the floor of the arena that we usually entered into. And they were not lying. It was way too full.

There was not a single seat available. People were standing in the fire exits. People were standing on the stairs and the hallways inside the actual arena. It was, in fact, a real safety hazard. Yeah, I do really feel the need to emphasize not one of those things where the cops were fucking over the press or whatever for their own like it was a serious issue no we we saw we saw firefighters inspecting the hallways and letting a whole bunch of fire code violations fly yeah we were not supposed to be standing in the middle of that stairwell and yeah we we got inside just in time

for the foreign policy border patrol and and uh and geopolitics section of kamala's speech and we will talk about her speech including those aspects right after we come back from this ad break all right the final speech of the dnc arguably the most important one although the dnc just went on for so long that i i was so checked out by that last day honestly it was just the bill clinton's nine hour speech where he just was just the oldest man who's ever lived no he's convinced me you know i i watched last night uh several episodes of the show about him committing a sex crime as the president and it really reminded me boy slick willie's gotten old yeah thank you for using my dad's nickname for bill clinton on my slick willie that's every dad's nickname for bill clinton my dad loves to call him that anyways garrison we get up there

we are standing in a crowd of journalists just trying to get a glimpse of what's going on and is there any particular part of the speech you want to talk about because there's a few things that come to mind for me i mean yeah i have notes on like the whole speech just you know a few a few lines from each little section and i think this speech was more important than most of trump's speeches yeah because we've heard trump speak you know a bajillion times now i will say trump's rnc speech was important because this was his first speech after getting shot at in the head um and right similarly i think this speech for kamala was extremely important because this was his first speech after getting shot at in the head. And similarly, I think this speech for Kamala was extremely important, because this is basically her second presidential speech.

The speech she's been using for her campaign trail has been the same stump speech for the past month. It's been the same one delivered many times, which is not a regular. But this is the first time we've really heard her do a new speech. And this is her introduction as a presidential candidate to the entire world. As she took the stage, there's obviously tons of cheers, chants of USA. She opened by praising Biden's record and his character, saying that history will prove him to have such a great record and character. And then she framed her own personal story as like a template of like the american

journey right saying quote i'm no stranger to unlikely journeys unquote okay she talked about her mother as an immigrant saying her parents met at a civil rights gathering and that her dad taught her to be fearless although her dad also i guess probably failed to teach her how to be a good marxist but she didn't she did not bring that part up in this speech complicated relationship look we all get to have one yes but her parents taught her and her sister about you know different different civil rights leaders including civil rights lawyers that fought for civil rights in court and kamala said this is what inspired her to go to law school although you know very famously she did not become like a civil rights lawyer. She became a prosecutor. And Kamala said that this was inspired by her high school best friend getting molested by her stepfather. And that's what got her to want to

go down the prosecutor path. That was the first time that I had ever heard her talk about that. Yeah, I hadn't heard that either. She mentioned it a few other times. Obviously not on that large of a stage. Yes, no, no. There was a lot of talk about that. Yeah, I hadn't heard that either. She mentioned it a few other times. Obviously not on that large of a stage. Yes, no, no. There was a lot of talk about that and a lot of talk about her focus on like familial sexual abuse, molestation and other sex crimes as a prosecutor and say like basically framing that as like her specialty. And that that was a good part of what she focused on when she was a courtroom prosecutor. The line that she used to refer to her work in the court was that, quote, everyone has a right to safety, dignity, and justice. So that was kind of the introduction

to Kamala and her background. That was like who she was, where she came from. And then the speech pivoted to talking about Orange Man Bad, which worked very well in 2020 and i think we're gonna see more of that the closer we get to the election one way or the other it's the last time you're gonna get to make hay out of it and so you might as well do that while the sun's shining yes honestly that was the general theme of the dnc speeches for me was like orange man bad We got one last shot. We can be good for you. Be good with us. We're good. Orange man bad.

It's even less that they want to be elected to make any actual progressive change. It's that in order to do that in the future, we first need to beat Donald Trump. Yeah. And that was kind of the guiding principle of most of the DNC and Kamala's speech. She called this election a fight for America's future. It's infuriating that, like, we deal with this again, right? Where we have to, like, sit down and knock the Republicans out and end a chunk of the conservative ideology in this country because literally nothing can progress without doing that. And we still can't

handle the more fundamental problems. But you know, that's that's the way it is. Yeah. And she talked a lot about voting rights thing that Trump tried to throw away your vote. And when that didn't work, he directed an armed mob to the Capitol to overthrow the election. She talked about how Trump wants to deploy the military against protests, although she said he wants to deploy the military against quote, although she said he wants to deploy the military against, quote, our own citizens, but this was in reference to him wanting to deploy the military against protests. And she framed the Supreme Court's new ruling to give presidents immunity in court from criminal prosecution as imagining Trump, but now without any guardrails,

which of course is very scary. And part of this is Project 2025. Again, trying to reiterate this as the Republicans playbook in case Trump is able to get back into office. Mentions of Project 2025 started a series of we are not going back chants, which I think is probably some of the best messaging the Democrats have the option of deploying this go around. I know there was an upper Democratic strategist who has been meeting with the Kamala team who said that this messaging doesn't work because it's too vague and too negative and not enough focused on the future. And thankfully,

the Democrats, or at least Kamala's team, did not listen to that guy because that is the most wrong a man has ever been. This messaging has been playing very well in person at all these rallies and especially at the DNC. Kamala talked a little bit about economics, saying, quote, we are charting a future towards a strong and growing middle class, unquote. And, quote,

we will build an opportunity economy where everyone has a chance to compete and a chance to succeed, unquote. Which I guess is fine. I don't know. I have a few kind of issues with this. Mainly like what happens when you don't succeed and what happens to the lower class.

Throughout the entirety of the DNC, there's been a lot of talk about growing a strong middle class and a big focus on the middle class, but very little focused on actually helping the people that are having it the hardest in this country. Instead, really catering to like the middle class voter and i don't know it's it's like there's a there's a lot of talk about labor there's a lot talking about like working people like workers rights that stuff all has a pretty big spotlight

at the dnc this year but but very little mentions of how we can actually improve life for the lower class she did talk about you know very vague gestures towards lowering the cost of everyday needs. But so far, she's kind of yet to unveil any actual solid policies, really. We have that first time home homebuyers like 25k. Yeah, she's proposed some details on like how to help increase the number of first time homebuyers and build an additional like 3 million homes in the United States states like there's been some but it is all kind of vague at this point now one thing that they do have going for them is when the dims say like we're going to cut inflation you know we've seen inflation drop

yes from the the post-pandemic highs over the last couple of years to the point where it's at now so like that is that you know there's there's a leg to stand on there and in general i actually think one of the better economic points was made by Clinton during his speech, which is that like the vast majority of jobs that have been created over all of our lifetimes have been created under Democratic precedents. And, you know, if you if like that's your voting issue, the polls are also moving in the direction of that. People seem to be trusting Kamala more on the economy than they trusted Biden. Even though there's not really a perfectly logical reason to do that, but this is – elections aren't about logic, right? No, they're about vibes. They're about vibes.

In a lot of ways, they're about vibes. And I do think the Dems – I think the Dems have that actually, like, good headwinds on them. A lot can change in the next 70 days or so. What I really saw with this speech and with this convention as a whole was the Democratic Party embracing the middle and some conservatives. And they tried not to be too directly abrasive to progressives and the left. But they weren't catering to them. But they were not catering to it. Yeah.

Yeah. Kamala did attack Trump on taxes specifically, saying that Trump will do tax breaks to his billionaire friends. It'll add $5 trillion to the national debt. Trump's tariff proposal, basically a national sales tax or a Trump tax that will raise costs for middle class families by up to $4,000 a year, which is in line with a whole bunch of economists' predictions if Trump's tariffs do go through. saying that, quote, we will provide access to capital for entrepreneurs, small business owners, and founders, warning that Trump will ban abortion pills and enact a national abortion ban and force states to report on people's abortions and miscarriages. And instead, Kamala will sign into law a bill that protects abortion access nationally, as well as calling to pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Act and the Freedom to Vote Act and more kind of vague gestures

towards protecting the freedom to love who you love, to have clean air and clean water, and the freedom that unlocks all others the freedom to vote. And so that's kind of the most of the domestic policy section of the speech. And that is the part of the speech that we missed. And then we came in right as she started talking about the border, saying again that, like many others have talked about at the DNC, how the Democrats and Republicans worked together to write the strongest border bill in decades. And Kamala said that this bill was endorsed by the Border Patrol, which it wasn't. It was endorsed by the Border Patrol Union, but who cares? And Kamala talked about trump called republicans to kill the bill so the democrats couldn't take credit and she promised that she will bring back this bill and sign it

into law saying that quote we can create an earned pathway to citizenship and secure our border unquote again this is one of the areas that democrats i think have lost the most amount of ground on the past like like, eight years. And they are still kind of willing to cede it. And then in terms of, like, geopolitics and foreign policy, one line of commonwealth that has kind of caught in some flack, but also, I don't know. I'll just read it. We can talk about it. She said that, quote, I will ensure America always has the strongest, most lethal fighting force in the world, unquote.

Yes. So did you guys what did you think by the use of that language? I think she was trying to appeal to the voters that don't think a woman can lead. That's the end of my sentence. Agreed. Oh, interesting. i feel very differently i found this as being a reaction to right-wing and centrist attacks kind of questioning her strength as a leader yes so she went for very very like intense language on this see i i feel very differently about that and i i think this may be just due to the fact that I have kind of some more experience with how people in the NatSec space speak.

Because the phrasing that she used, and it's been lampooned a lot online. We've all had a couple of some bits about, you know, talking about, I don't want a lethal, the most lethal military in the world. I want this or that. But like. That's what the military does. No, lethality is also a meme term right like like it that that's the way it is used in this space like if you go to like speeches where people who are involved in any level as contractors in the military industrial complex making arms uh working for like it is all

about when they're talking about like improving efficiency within the Air Force. It's about lethality, right? We are increasing lethality. Like that is our goal. That's what we're doing here today because that is the measure by which you determine the success of the organization. So what I saw Harris is doing by using that specific terminology was not, I am trying to talk extra hard in order to burnish my credentials because conservatives are going to attack me. It was Trump is actually kind of weak on the national security stuff, especially within the community of people who are like NATSEC ghouls, right? Within people who are members, who are born and raised members,

like my family, a lot of them, of the military industrial complex, the people who have their professions in that space, right? They actually don't all like Trump a lot. And some evidence of that was recently he made some statements where he essentially insulted Medal of Honor recipients that, like, the VFW came out and attacked Trump, which is wild, like, absolutely unprecedented. I do think it's a little bit, I definitely agree with you, Robert, but I do think it's a little bit of what Gara and I were talking about as well. Another thing that I'm just thinking of as Robert saying that is just how often Trump has said that, you know, the war in Ukraine wouldn't happen if he was in office, that like put in scared of him and things like that as like one of his main reasons why we should reelect him is because he commands authority and nobody nobody

did anything bad when he was in power and um i i think a lot of that has to do with kamala's language choice i mean it's it's she said what she said because it was a way of expressing like like an internal signifier to other people in the natsock space yeah yeah it was it was it was a way of saying that i am not just i'm not an outsider i am a professional i understand and speak about this the same way that you guys do yeah yeah yeah right no i can i i can see that you know the whole speech i kind of saw in those terms it was very much calculated i can see that. You know, the whole speech I kind of saw in those terms, it was very much calculated. I can see who they were trying to get with that speech. There was a bit in there for everybody.

And they were trying to get kind of those moderate chunks of every group, including those moderate chunks of the people whose like primary issue is Gaza, right? Yeah. Because there is a chunk of the people who are mostly concerned this election with what the fuck we're going to do about Gaza, but also are not, you know, hardline communists or whatever. You know, are people who, like the uncommitted folks, really want to embrace the Democratic Party and are maybe— People who still believe in the system. Want to—just need a little bit of a lie that they can go along with to vote, right? bit of a lie that they can go along with to vote right like kamala was was attempting to kind of give because she didn't announce a substantive change in policy no her verbiage on gaza in this

speech was the same as the kind of stuff that like obama was saying honestly like 10 years ago sure gary do you have a quote of of what she said yeah let's talk about it but first let's head to our last ad break real quick all right let's talk about her closing remarks relating on foreign policy and palestine i guess there's a few other kind of general foreign policy things yeah saying that under her watch quote we will lead the world into the future on space and artificial intelligence. America, not China, will win the competition for the 21st century, unquote. She framed Trump as an ally of Russia and Putin, and she claimed that she will help us, quote, stand strong with Ukraine and our NATO allies. And then finally, one of the last

things she talked about was Israelrael palestine saying quote president biden and i are working around the clock now is the time to get a hostage deal done and a ceasefire deal done this had a decent sized cheer she followed this up by saying quote we will always stand for israel's right to defend itself and ensure israel has the ability to defend itself and ensure Israel has the ability to defend itself, unquote. And I think this signals mostly to people that it's unlikely she will adopt anything resembling an arms embargo. And there was a lot of internal pressure from the uncommitted folks, people who got into the DNC trying to push on this topic specifically because Democrats have now kind of adopted kind of vague ceasefire rhetoric.

Now, the goalpost does need to be shifted towards something that'll actually stop the bombing of families inside Gaza. And that is an arms embargo, some kind of conditions on the way that bombs and weapons are going to be used. And I think this line signified that that is probably not going to take place, at least before the election. No, at least before the election. No. Definitely not before the election. That's very clear at this point.

And she kind of both sides this issue. Yeah. Her last quote was, quote, What has happened in Gaza over the past 10 months is devastating. So many innocent lives lost. How? Desperate, hungry people fleeing for safety. Why?

Over and over again. The scale of suffering is heartbreaking. Whom is making them do this? President Biden and I are working to end this war such that Israel is secure, the hostages are released, the suffering in Gaza ends, and the Palestinian people can realize their right to dignity, security, freedom, and self-determination. Unquote. And this was followed by what i would call the biggest cheers of the entire night yeah i was about to i was about to say the crowd reaction was was massive to that people lost it so much bigger cheers than saying we will ensure israel

has the ability to defend itself this closing line about dignity security freedom and self-determination for the palestinian people got by far the biggest cheers and but like what does it mean like what are you actually saying it means nothing i mean what all of that means to me is that like democrats because they're they are normal people they're not republicans they know how bad all this is they hate it they are mad at etin yahoo you only really need to see a couple of war crime videos to know that like what happened is happening over there is is ghastly yeah they also aren't willing to like nuke their lives and a lot of other people's lives to let trump back in right and and i do believe they genuinely view israel as an extremely important ally in the middle east yeah and they think that

this could be fixed right because like we did some awful stuff in iraq but then we elected obama and everything got better right like or something like that yeah no i mean like they don't like netanyahu the biden admin doesn't like netanyahu because he's not efficient at war he's efficient at doing like and like an ethnic cleansing he's efficient at doing wide civilian casualties but he's not good at actually like fighting this war very well. This is something that like Biden's team has consistently not been thrilled by, but they're not going to do much about it. Kind of the last foreign policy line that she had was, quote, I will never hesitate to take whatever action is necessary to defend our forces and our interests against Iran and Iran backed terrorists and will not cozy throughout the DNC, including from speakers, speakers who are either vets or active military, that seems to be kind of slowly preparing the democratic party for another war for some kind of on the ground activity in the middle east whether that be in lebanon whether that be in iran

it's like they're slowly just prepping us for the possibility of war or invasion oh that does seem likely this is a big part of like the democratic party's official like a policy platform on palestine which they they did release during the dnc and a big part of that is is about is talking about how important israel is as a middle east ally where will we fly our planes over if they ever need to put troops on the ground and i think that is so much of why they're unwilling to budge on anything resembling like an actual ceasefire or an arms embargo is because they view this as like a real possibility anyway that was that was this speech the balloons dropped everyone lost their minds yep it's not a cult in the same way but there's there's you can see one

building maybe the party's a cult but it's not a kamala cult the same way the gop is now a trump right like the republicans are now a trump cult it is it is not a cult of like who is the leader in the dnc but it is more of a cult of like ideology which i guess the republicans just don't even have anymore it's not even that it's it's a cult of uh i think i would describe it as defensive cult making democrats have been so bewildered and frightened by the momentum that trump and his people have had over the last decade. And they have responded in part by adapting some aspects of the cultic milieu to wrap around these ideas that are safe to them. That's a big part of the appeal of the don't go back chant, right?

Which I think is a smart bit of politics. appeal of the don't go back chant right which i think is a smart bit of politics and i think actually it has the potential to save quite a bit of lives particularly at least of like queer trans people in the united states yeah so i i'm not saying this is bad politics but there is a level of cultiness to that where you're you are kind of enrapturing people with this possibility of constant forward motion that we all know doesn't feel as true as it felt in 2015 or 14. You know, it doesn't feel as possible as it felt in 2012 or 2008,

that they're kind of trying to sell people on if we can just get over the hurdle of these Republicans, right? We can get back to the period where like things felt like we were all moving in the right direction and that's magical thinking yeah we we can get back to a period of steady progress i i try to be even about this because as i i wrote that episode the fucking um don't panic episode because i was i was looking at people's talking on reddit Reddit and Twitter and just in real life and being like, I think some folks might kill themselves soon.

Yeah. Out of fear of the Republicans. So I really hope no one reads what I'm saying as like, ah, these stupid libs and their hope fetish. It's like, no, no, no. But it's still a cultic belief. It's not rational. It may be necessary.

Sometimes irrational beliefs are necessary sure but there's not a good reason for it yet and don't fall too far like fall try not to fall further down that hole than you need to fall in order to keep yourself alive for the next eight months so even though trump has spoke a lot the past eight years his speech at the rnc i think was important because it was the first one post-assassination his viewership for that speech peaked at 28.4 million viewership for kamala's speech thursday night peaked at 28.9 million so she edged him out just barely, at least in terms of peak numbers

by about 500,000 views. Very even, very even, yeah. Very even. And again, like, Kamala's not spoken tons. There's a lot of people kind of tuning in to see what she sounds like

kind of for the first time on a big national platform. And meanwhile, I think people are just briefly tuning in to Trump just to see what he's like after getting shot in the head. And I will read a few of Trump's tweets.

Oh, he's not doing well. He's not doing well at all. Man, was he spiraling. Oh, my God. From Kamala's speech. He just started by all caps. Is she talking about me? Excellent.

Incredible stuff. Donald, buddy, I can tell you're slipping because four years ago if you tried to tweet that out you wouldn't have had to hear it from someone there would have been a voice in your own head before you press send that would have been like don't do that donnie come on donnie come on come on you're better than this quote too many thank yous, too rapidly said. What's going on with her? Followed by one minute later, in all caps, where's Hunter? See, again, Trump at his prime, it would have been something like loopy hair or shit, some shit. He would have like made some sort of insulting remark about her personal appearance and ignored the rest of the speech.

One minute later, Walls was an assistant coach, not a coach. That's such a weak line. Very funny. Very funny. Oh my God. For one thing, most American men have been on a sports team and we all know you just call them all coach.

Everyone is coach. They're just all coach. You don't say assistant coach it's embarrassing to be honest no player in a football team is everyone like hey assistant coach could you come over here like that's just not the way people are no wow anything else a few months ago we did an episode talking about kind of polls that is now largely outdated because biden's no longer in the race uh but we did talk about how most people's pick for president was literally anybody else. We saw one booth at the DNC protest that was a literally anyone else themed booth.

And oh boy, do I have news for you, buddy. Good news. But we do have some polling data kind of on how satisfied people feel based on their choices for this presidential election. Now, obviously there's a small post-convention bump for Harris, but that kind of usually tapers off. But in terms of their satisfaction of the candidacy options,

in May, only 55% of Democrats said they were satisfied. Now, 79% say they're satisfied. Massive. And for Republicans, back in May, 68% were satisfied, and now 74%'re satisfied. Massive. And for Republicans back in May, 68 were satisfied and now 74 are satisfied. So, but both are moving towards higher satisfaction. And obviously the giant shift in Democrat numbers is because of Kamala now. And they're more satisfied with her than Republicans seem to be with Trump, which is an interesting stat. And this is based on a New York Times, a Siena College poll of registered voters

in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. So that's just a few interesting little notes there as we close out this week talking about the DNC. And then finally, I have one kind of little funny anecdote. As we were leaving the DNC dnc after kamala's speech me and sophie was walking around this area of chicago trying to get far enough away from the convention center to get an uber and i i saw this guy maybe in his like oh so funny probably in his

20s who was who was either about to block up or just d blocked and you can tell because he's wearing the pants he's wearing doc martin's garrison is referring to someone who has just taken off their black block as in the traditional kind of anarchist protest garb and put on normal street clothes so as to escape from a police cordon yeah so this guy was walking around either about to go to the protest or just left still had the doc martin's on had like the backpack full of his stuff and as he walked by me i just almost instinctively like without thinking at all this was this was this wasn't on purpose just instinctively i kind of muttered to myself i know what you are and and he heard this and like turned around looking kind of like confused or concerned and i just had i had to turn around i just gave him a smile and a

thumbs up and he smiled back and and kept and kept walking on and that was my last interaction at the dnc which is a just a little bit amusing to me um there was a protest of around similar numbers to mondays so maybe like 3 000 2 000 people for kind of the last march on the DNC last Thursday. So there was another one of these big kind of coalition-led marches. It looked like it was not far from Monday's numbers, actually, which was impressive. Pretty close, pretty close, but they did not breach the fence, unlike last time. A small section of them did not break off from the protest marshals and bypass a section of the fence, unlike Monday, which did cause significant disruptions.

But disruptions were not needed because the DNC disrupted itself by overbooking the venue and having way too many people. So there you go. That was the DNC. I'm really glad it's over. Me too. I'm really glad it's over too and i can't wait until 2028 when we all get to be together again to cover the next election if there is one comrade aoc proudly takes control she raises the red flag on stage comrade aoc uh with her vice presidential candidate the literal bones of leon trotsky running versus just an open chasm to the pit of hell an actual crack in the earth through which you can see the ephemeral forms of demons

roiling in the magma below that's gonna be a great gonna be a great one really excited for those conventions and or donald trump jr eric trump and donald trump jr finally the dream team i believe they could open up a chasm to hell i do i do i think what would be more likely is if eric trump and donald trump jr are on the same team with a bunch of secret service agents that we finally finally have a presidential election decided from a fentanyl overdose they get some tampered coke anyways the podcast is over i'm gonna go die now goodbye On Thanksgiving Day 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh.

And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba.

Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, the Eliane Gonzalez story as part of the My Cultura podcast network

available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Parenti. And I'm Jimei Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, the early career podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.

One of the most exciting things about having your first real job is that first real paycheck. You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions like, how should I be investing this money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k? Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud, but I'm like, every single year you need to be asking for a raise of somewhere between 10 to 15%.

I'm not saying you're going to get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting eight, that is actually a true raise. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot.

Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. use to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head search for therapy gecko on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts it's the one with the green guy on it when therefore a man is told you your inner being, are so-and-so because your skull bone is so constituted. This means nothing else than that we regard a bone as the man's reality.

To retort upon such a statement, the retort here would, properly speaking, have to go to the lengths of breaking the skull of the person who makes a statement like that in order to demonstrate to him in a manner as palpable as his own wisdom that a bone is nothing of an inherent nature at all for a man still less his true reality welcome to ikidap here i'm your host mia wong uh that was the man himself george wilhelm frederick hagel from the phenomenology of mind i'm gonna go full caesar uh here. Like, that's not Hegel! Oh, lovely. And with me is, as you have just heard,

is Envy Flores, a queer socialist from Mexico City. We've had on the show before a talk about Mexican TERFs, his work with Zapatista Networks. And we are once again, I think, delving into the terrifying, extremely well-organized world of Mexican Turfs. And I guess this is kind of a they're eating a bit of shit episode. Oh, yeah. Which is good.

We have good news in this show. Woo! A very rare occurrence. We have a little bit of good news. Yeah, also, welcome to the show. Excited to have you back. I love it. I love the show, and I'm happy to update,

because last time we left on a real sour note, and this time, I mean, it's not exactly fantastic news, but things are looking up in this specific part, and I think you're going to introduce to a massive dolly we just got worldwide yeah so we ended up not doing a full episode on this but one of the big sort of stories for the last few weeks and i i don't know when this episode is gonna be coming out so maybe this is gonna be ancient news by that point but the the day we're recording this is like one day after the algerian boxer iman khalif i won the gold medal of the olympics

she has been i mean this story has been sort of beaten to death but like she's been like accused of being a man and being like transgender and like all of this shit from a whole bunch of like i mean everyone from like elon musk to like jk rowling to megan kelly's losing her mind about i forgot she even existed until this but she's apparently around and doing this you know so so i i think people sort of know the basics of this story but there's a part of the story about sort of you know i guess we'll probably get into a little bit of this about how a lot of this is sort of manufactured by a bunch of incredibly sore losers and like weird transphobes in a incredibly corrupt like russian ran boxing association um right right

but the other side of this that has gotten absolutely zero coverage anywhere is that a huge amount of of the attacks against against her were started by the mexican turf network yeah and surprisingly one of the few coverages i've seen has been in mexican like feminist news which is like part of the things that are have changed since then like mexican and uh latin american feminists have realized oh we fucked up and we're trying to fix our mistakes but sadly i think the world suffered one of our latest mistakes yeah so can you tell us about sort of how this whole thing started which i think is like several years earlier than most people seem to really like understand i think the corruption angle that we might expand a little bit more uh that is the beginning of it. And I think it was a little bit,

Imane was like in the wrong place at the wrong time. Let's be real. She won gold. I was not betting on her winning gold. Like she's really good, but she's not like the buffest out there. It's pure racism and convenience that she's been labeled and targeted the way she is. Because, like, you see

her opponents, and they're the buffest girls I've ever seen in my life. They're incredible. Like, every single athlete up there is amazing. I took pictures of her and say, you're telling me this is not a man? She's, like, a little bit skinny, honestly. She's really

tall, so she has to be skinny to compete in that way. Yeah, it's like, have you people ever seen a boxer before? Like, it's just sort of baffling. Like, one of the boxers that defended her, like, she was offended. Like, you're telling me that I beat Imani before, and, like, I didn't even qualify for this year's Olympics. Like, she's not invincible,

even if this is probably her best performance. Yeah. She's really strong in the spotlight. I love her. But, like, she's not invincible even if this is probably her best best performance. Yeah, she really shone under a spotlight I love her but like she's not extremely muscular or anything not that being muscular is masculine but like this was really just both racism and convenience, but part of that is One of the first people who started complaining about this after the corrupt russian uh russian oligarch

led boxing federation that got disqualified from the olympics yeah like again i want to i want to pause here and everyone like take note of this do you understand how corrupt of an organization you have to be for the fucking olympics to stop working with you like you have to make the chicago fucking machine look squeaky clean for for the olympics to not work like we're talking about every single other sport is also doing shit like this like they just went too greedy like they like in san russian oliver that got into fights with people during the war in Ukraine and then didn't stop doing corrupt shit. Like, they couldn't just take a year break. They had to push.

Yeah. Like, they had to play too dirty. So, at the end of the day, Imena got disqualified with, like, trust me, pro levels of citations for her. No one knew for a while what was the thing that disqualified her. Was it hormones? Chromosomes? Vibes? It turns out it's mostly vibes.

And so when she got disqualified from not an Olympic event, but a corrupt Russian oligarch-led event, a former boxer who lost against her, who's from Mexico, who sucks ass, like, she's really dogshit. She started posting pictures of her bruises after the match,

and honestly she reminds me of the Italian boxer that also got her shit rocked. Yeah! They keep... she did perform very well, Imane, at the end when she got gold. But the very first, like, matches she got were against... Like, how did these people get here? Yeah, like, that Italian boxer... Like, this is the only time I will ever say this about something that happened in the Olympics. But, like, the Italian boxer threw the worst punch I've ever seen and then instantly got punched by, like like the most obvious punch in the entire world

in the face. It's like, wait, what are you doing? How did you get here? Like, I won't go deep into why Brianna Tamara sucks so much ass because that would have been the episode we ended up not doing. But suffice it to say, like, she's just not in that level.

She didn't qualify for a race in this time. But, and also, I noticed that she was waiting to do her pro debut right now. Something felt planned about all of this. Yeah. She announced that she retired from amateur boxing, which, honestly, is the more legit boxing. Don't at me. And she's going pro, which means she's now charging for tickets and uh

she announced her pro debut the same day that this whole like bungle started for international people watching the olympics like she very much knew that the people were gonna try something yeah so she so she's using this as like like, boxing promoting. Yeah, pretty much. Which is, like, the shadiest shit in history. Boxing promoting in Sinaloa, which, like, if you know anything about Mexico, that's going to be a couple red lights. Oh, boy. But, so, the thing is, why did she knew that she was going to happen really says a lot about how international turfs are operating nowadays right like i don't want to get all fucking russia gate and like uh like have my uh fucking persecutor body pillow like some leaps have but turfs are trying to get money and influence anywhere they can and some of them are

trying to get in from russia right like yeah it's the if they're already putting people in concentration camps in chechnya like they say hell, hell yeah, I want me some of that. And, you know, the Brits are sometimes too focused on Britain. You need something international to make the money flow down to Latin America, especially out of Spain. Spain kind of hawks it all for themselves. The first news site that took this years ago, translated it to English, is called Redox Magazine,

like that I think it's a Canadian joint. Redox, it's the only site I've seen in all of the turf landscape that only publishes in English and Spanish. It's very clearly a fulcrum for turf organizing in Latin America and in the Anglosphere. And I don't think it's a coincidence that this story broke, quote-unquote. Like, the first people who commented on this and, like, renewed the accusations of Yomani being trans was Redux. And then other, like, transphobic boxing coaches from Italy and England

and the United states started picking up the story but that was after like the the more diplomatically minded mexican turfs and spanish turfs that usually don't work together again they don't like to share listen mexico doesn't have the best relation with spain for obvious reasons yeah and uh but even then like as spaces for turfs in mexico had been closing they're looking for funding from other places right the turf gambit didn't work quite well in mexico so they're trying to look for international sponsors sponsorships and they thought they had hit a big one here they they had the attention of the entire world people were sharing brianda's photos because like again brianda doesn't have it's not a good boxer so she looks like a young short pretty lady

that could be your barista and uh put her against like someone who's like a head taller that beat her ass because he thought she sucks they couldn't ask for better propaganda yeah but it really backfired when the entire world went what what are you talking about yeah but i think it worked for mexican tariffs i think they might get like a couple grants here and there they're back in the radar uh at least internationally and that's why i think coming here is really important because we we didn't win precisely and we'll get to that but at least we're in a stalemate and i think they're trying to look for either allies or honestly jobs elsewhere they might just want yeah a spot in redox magazine like to get into like be able to move to britain or shit like that yeah i think this is something that is important about the mexican turfs which is that like unlike in the u.s where there's just this

like unbelievably large pot of money that you can tap into from like the heritage foundation and like all of these sort of like right-wing think tanks it's like the funding is a lot harder to come by we we all have troubles getting funding yeah any type of small grant that would be a nothing burger in america goes a long way here right and so the far right has been really smart and pushing stuff but it hasn't really paid dividends and uh it's all gonna dry up for a while honestly especially with like how the economy is going i think uh in the age of infinite money of 2020, like they were willing to throw more money at like a long shot bet in Brazil or Mexico. Right now

they gotta bring something to the table and they try to bring in money and they I think they fucking ate shit. Hell yeah. So okay, you know what else brings something to the table? It is the products and services that put food on my table i guess god the only other pros of this here are these ads

and we are back so i wanted to kind of move to talking about what's been happening in in this sort of mexican feminist scene and in in terms of sort of what's what's been going on with turf since the election of uh the new mexican president claudia shame bomb who's i don't know like i think a lot of americans i think the conception of her is that she's like significantly further left than she actually is oh yeah like i i you know what i felt so much uh skaden freud when like people started talking about kamala like she was gonna end apartheid and uh yeah end the genocide and i was like how does it fucking feel yeah i got really angry at every single article no one clocked her correctly like uh both the far right

uh and the left thought she was significantly to the left and like everyone said like oh finally a feminist jewish woman and like the jewish party is gonna play a part because like i do feel we're gonna see a rise in anti-semitism in mexico a big one like i say i i feel like a birther style movement from when obama was elected coming up and it's gonna play again i i see claudia she's not just an extension of amlo and she is i would say not further to the left than andres mandela but she has less right wing things about her right it's not like she's better than amlo she's just less worse she's she because like i was like an old christian guy like i do mean

christian like this is a catholic country and amlo is like i think it's he's like pentecostal or something like he's never uh needed like what his relatives said but he did do like weird right wing things uh especially culturally well i mean not everywhere right like we got hella militarized like half our infrastructure is owned by the military now which is like you can just jakarta mythoing ourselves like for free yeah and uh he goes on rants about how drugs are caused by value in video games and like uh like he like for for a week tried to like say we should ban fortnite that didn't go anywhere and i think it was just because his son didn't stop playing it maybe he he overspent on the family uh credit

card i don't know but like yeah he's very like he has a very christian morality and uh it's a weird fit with mexicans catholic one yeah in the weirdest way like his very like work will like very protestant ethics guy and people didn't talk about that and now they think claudia is gonna bring like jewish ethics and no she's like way just like a mexican scientist like professional like she's very much a scientist at least that's her self-conception and how she operates and she i think a lot of people underestimated her like they just saw her as an appendage of amlo like with no real uh political acumen or or skill of herself she doesn't really have a base of voters again she's like an academic

like her base of voters are college graduates far left-leaning college graduates but not too left-leaning because otherwise you'll see like left-leaning, because otherwise you'll see, like, hey, please stop militarizing our country. And... Yeah. So we didn't expect her to win with, like, the margins that she did. She won with historic margins,

more votes than Amla got. It's just... She's so fucking shrewd. And this ties to the TERFs, because, like, four years, we were really worried, because, like, four years, we were really worried. Because, like, we thought she was a TERF. Like, we straight up thought she was a TERF.

Even though she passed some of the largest, like, trans-positive legislations in Mexico City, that was more, like, momentum from Mexico City being, like, this progressive center of Mexican politics. And, like, I participated in getting that law passed. Like, she wasn't happy about that she basically was trying to get some heritage foundation funded folks to sit in a table and like have a big discussion a very centrist thing of like let's listen to both sides and it's because she had like some of the og tariffs uhs from Mexico, like some of them like that started in the 70s. Like people who knew Janice Raymond when she was young were literally in Morena's structure.

Like during 2020, like the women's agenda for Morena was set by TERFs, by some of the worst TERFs, like some of the most internationally well-connected TERFs too, right? And that was a huge problem. internationally well-connected turfs to, right? Yeah. And that was a huge problem. We managed to push back against that with protests, with, like,

talking to politicians, like, not really begging, we just, you know, that's a nice window you have there. Would be a shame

if anything happened to it. And also by, like, my collective, like, we started focusing on, like, oh, God,

I don't want to say OSINT anymore because, like, since Ukraine, like, saying god i don't want to say all sin anymore because like since since ukraine like saying all sins is so cringe yeah but like we we started like investigating and like tracking like these people start showing up in like government positions that was really worrying yeah some of them were like very clearly affiliated with the far right but some of them were uh they came from like union jobs on and shit like that or they were like they were the anarchists throwing bricks at walls like a year ago and we started seeing them get co-opted slowly and we were really scared but then i think

we underestimated that claudia was playing us she was also playing them. Like she is a really shrewd political operator and she gave TERFs enough to get them to do what TERFs do best, which is break up feminist organizing. Yeah. So whatever Claudia could not directly co-opt to like get like leaders. There were some like black blocks in Mexico whose leaders like literally had in their LinkedIn's that they were like doing like black bloc shit. Oh, my God.

I know. It's incredible. And it just gave everything away because the same person who did that had in her LinkedIn like a year previously that she was like an AD for a Morena congresswoman. Oh, my God. year previously that she was like an ad for uh a morena congresswoman oh my god and uh yeah i think what morena did was uh infiltrate a lot of black blocs to neutralize them because during 2020 two years after amblo got elected like mexican feminists were i would say the biggest fire in social movements in mexico like with the zapapatistas getting surrounded by state-sponsored narco-cartels and stuff,

they were really paralyzed, and with COVID and everything like that. A lot of other organizing got real damaged, but feminists were, like, they were trying to get abortion passed, and they succeeded for most of it, but, like, institutional feminists succeeded banning abortion,

and more independent or street anarchist socialist based uh feminists they suddenly didn't have anything to demand so they either got cushy government jobs or they got arrested or they helped the police arrest people like by being like clearly just like you know the classic like eight people get arrested and one of them gets out in like a week and it's like oh yeah and uh so like feminists got a rude awakening and before they were more permissive like like cool feminists like real leftist, socialist and queer feminists were more permissive of TERFs during like the 2016

to 2022, because they thought like we need unity within feminism, we need to get abortion passed, we need to combat both the far right and Amlos conservatism and well, they won and a bunch of their leaders got co-opted

we have an epidemic of of feminist activists passing laws with their names. The one movement that got defeated the worst is anti-carceral feminism. Forget about abolitionism in the carceral sense. No one gave a shit about that. Even anarchists were trying to pass laws to lay Olivia, to scalp dads who haven't paid child support like they really bet everything on punitivism and uh that's the thing that united like every single segment of feminism including rat fans and tariffs like they love putting people

in jail it's their whole entire deal yeah and uh so but the thing is that's the way you get you co-opt someone you just tell her okay instead of like being an anarcho-punk like doing tagging government buildings what if i just give you a shitload of money and i pay for you to go to fancy hotels in every state and like talk about how important it is that we throw your ex into a into a meat processing machine uh for like breaking up with you yeah and uh i mean i'm being glib like there's horrible shit like we had to pass a law to like give more time to people who threw acid at women's faces right but like that's already legal yeah it's already legal i don't know if it's gonna work that well especially because like i think one of the most biggest cases of like a literal trafficker just got off jail this week and uh he he literally tortured one of mexico's biggest rat fans and it's like what did he you did this all for nothing

like you're just gonna like lock up more poor people and rich assholes are going to walk free. Yeah. And so, yeah, that was 2020. Then it got co-opted. And just like Claudia gave us some laws for trans people, she put TERFs in government positions. We protested that. And then she dropped them. She really did a... Andy with Woody.

I don't want to play with you anymore. Like, once she neutralized the feminist movement, once there were, like, there was no threat of escalation, she really didn't need the black, the fake black blocks. She just, you know, dropped them. Yeah.

And speaking of fake black blocks, you too could buy a fake black block from these products and services and we are back yeah so let's get into what's been happening in kind of present day the thing that's really interesting to me about like about the way that sort of Mexican turf stuff works is that they in a way that's high. I don't know. American turfs kind of work like this, but like they really function in a very similar way to like left social movements. Right.

Except that they're like newer world social movement for evil. mirror world social movement for evil but it's like like they have a lot of the same kind of like strengths and weaknesses that that like conventional like social movements have which i i think ties into a lot of what's going to happen to them and the fact that you can you know in in the same way that you can co-opt a social movement like they're also vulnerable to that yeah well when money dries up and like the options are stop organizing as a feminist like i cannot tell you how many lesbian separatists terfs are married and pregnant now it's like they just drop that shit like shaymon dropped them like shaymon didn't do it out of the kindness of her heart i think she realized that this was a vulnerability she needed to convince, like, the Jacobins of the world that she was this socialist president,

like, amblo, but even better, now in feminist form. Yeah. And she really couldn't do that if there was, like, these huge, like, people who didn't even pay attention to Mexican politics, but just JK Rowling. Like, this was just a huge vulnerability. She also didn't want this mostly to be a debate i've heard

rumors and i buy them completely like that she pushed for no uh trans women being legislators in our congress because we had uh we had two before one of them sucked ass and the other one was kind of fine like just normal lefty centrist woman uh the other one was just horrible so it's honestly i'm good with it yeah i mean that that's the situation we're about to have here we're like we're gonna get our first transfer of a congressman she's absolutely dog shit like terrible zionist like yeah no they were a nightmare to work with uh they they consistently i think they were just there to like waste our fucking time. Oh. Like, you would have a meeting with them.

So should we, like, pass this legislation saying that you can have, like, no gender on your voter ID? And that took the whole six years. Jesus Christ. And I didn't even want it. Like, I haven't even changed my legal name. So, like, it's not my priority, but it was a lot of people's priorities. And they kind of wasted our whole community's time. But even that was not enough. I think Shayma just didn't want headlines.

Like, she was content for other people to handle the quote-unquote debate. She didn't want anything to do with it because it only cost her. Like, the reason she defended some tariffs it's that some of them were like loyal to her and that's what she wanted she wanted loyalty because she needed party loyalty to like have a tight grip on morena because what she knew she could win pretty easily she didn't need to appeal to the right or the center right and good for her like i'm an anti-electoralist but like electoralists should not fucking listen to suburban moms like who gives a shit yeah going more to the left is to a certain extent is better electorally like just look at the numbers between paris and

biden and it's just vibes it's not even like real policy but just the vibes like you don't need you don't need to listen to pan voters because they're pan voters they're not gonna vote for morena and like the right here in mexico is really weird because like they have this really like neoliberal view but their culture is so aristocratic it's kind of like what if thems were like british tories like because they know they hate poor people not like republicans hate? Like, because they hate poor people. Not like Republicans hate poor people. Like, because they also pretend to be poor people. Panistas don't. They lost

half because Sheinbaum really took hold of Moreno's structure and mobilized it to vote in a way that was unprecedented even more than Amlos votes. And because like Panistas just couldn't shut up about how racist they are. they were just constantly saying the most horrible shit about morena voters yeah and there were campaigns by

pan saying go vote because they thought that like amlo is like a dictator because they really think that everyone is addicted yeah everyone that's to the left of mussolini is a dictator i'm a dictator so go out on both they thought thought citizen participation is going to destroy the AMLO regime. We're going to be back to Mexico instead of being Cuba sola del norte. But the thing is, when you send most of the population to vote, they're not going to vote for

the most repugnant, classist people ever yeah and the candidate they chose was not a far-right candidate like such a galvez was an indigenous woman like they thought they were gonna outflank shaman with that but they didn't like uh she sucks as such a tool uh she's not far right uh she used to be in perD, which was also AMLO's party. But she was part of, like, when Pan got into power in 2000, she was the one in charge of the negotiation with the EZTLN, and she betrayed the Zapatistas. Oh, Jesus Christ.

She was not going to get any indigenous vote. Yeah. So this is the first time the right does this, right? Like Pan did the fucking classic damn thing of like offering a watered down version of the other candidate. And they lost enormously. And a lot of TERFs, to get back to the topic, a lot of TERFs bet on both of them. They were really hedging.

They wanted to be, especially more institutional TERFs. They said, as long as we get a women president, we're going to be cool. Yeah, and that like backfired on them yeah oh yeah like shame like i said what she cares about is loyalty she didn't care about because she believed in them just like she didn't care about trans people because she believed in us she wanted loyal like loyal dogs and if you are hedging your bets yeah and she wins with 60

you're not gonna see a single cent from the government. Yeah, she kind of... Okay, this is an absolutely deranged comparison, but she kind of reminds me of Xi Jinping in the way that Xi Jinping does politics, is by... Every single more energy of politics, not just fainted when you say that.

She loves what you say. No! Because, like, jinping's like political style is sort of you know he's been he's been very very good at like like centralizing the bureaucracy around him and sort of like neutralizing social movements and this has been a classic like a long sort of long range like yeah post-culture revolution like chinese communist party thing of like we need to make sure there's not street movements we need to sort of neutralize yeah it's also emma's thing you know yeah but it's also like

you know xi jinping sort of very much is also like a loyalty guy right he's like you know he he will he will sort of set up anti-corruption things to like purge people who are like aren't loyal to him because that's you know that's that's the way that this kind of like centralizing politics works and it's it's shakespeare is really interesting that like we're seeing this with we're seeing this with the TERFs where it was like well you guys like I'm sorry you guys weren't fucking loyal enough so like eat shit you're gonna get you're gonna get anti-corruption campaigns there's people that we protest that are super close to shame on that we were really scared would get governing positions and were TERFs they didn't get shit. There's no, like, trans legislator, but there's also no TERF legislators. Yeah.

And there's a world where that could have happened, that we would have been fucked. I think without our protests, like, not just the ones we organized from my collective, the Reda Dissidencia Sexual y Degenerado, that we focused on some of the closest to shame-bound, but, like, every trans person knew that person knew that this was something real there. And we kind of put a stop to it, but it ended up in a stalemate. Because again, what Shane Bond did was defend her loyal Terps,

and she moved them to positions outside of the spotlight, honestly more suited to their talents. Her Terps were not really charismatic. She was trying to set them up like as influencers and like they just have no juice at all i mean that is a classic like just being the most juiceless motherfuckers on the planet absolutely and like really incoherent politics yeah and because like they again they were they were kind like, they're more, like, lefty in discourse. They were very nationalist, obviously.

But also, like, they were hyping how feminist she was. And, like, oh, we're going to confront American imperialism. While at the same time, like, being obsessed with, like, British TERFs. So, like, it was really contradictory. So, Morena calls their movement, like like the 4T, the 4T, the fourth transformation, which is like just, I won't even get into it.

It's just such a fucking bizarre thing. Didn't Abloh have the third transformation or something? Was he also doing the fourth transformation? Oh, it's like, no, no, no. It's like the independence when we kick France's ass and then revolution.

Those are the three. Oh, and then, okay. And then the fourth is him. Yeah, right. Like, he's saying, like, I'm Benito Juarez reborn. Oh, God. And, yeah, cringe, but, like, it stuck. Honestly, I use it because, like, it's such a good shorthand

because Morena is so large, such a big word. And it's also cringe because, like, Movimiento Regeneración Nacional Morena, which means, Morena means, like, brown skin. skin so and also like virgen morena which is like mexico's virgin mary so very cringe even for cuatro is even less cringe so yeah sure whatever but like one of the most famous mexican mexican feminists started calling them the cuatro ter oh my my god that stocks it's brilliant i fucking love paqueta so that stock but basically the cuatro terf is not out of power like the most ambitious ones and the most purely terfs got quick kicked out and the loyal dogs got sent to do like other jobs like

they're now talking to academics about like green progressive socialism and shit like they're just doing talks in like with like 80 year old tenured professors and like that is still risky and there's we're still watching them closely but i think shaman told them like i'm gonna protect you but you need to shut the fuck up you better not say the word trans for six years go go nuts afterwards but you're gonna have a job and you are gonna have a possibility of returning and but i'm not going to help you. That's on you. And like, honestly, at least that's a fair playing field. I'll take it.

I'll fucking take it. So yeah, I guess like the state of things seems to be that the deal is we're just going to take like trans people as a political issue off the table for whatever many years. Well, I think we're going to, gonna she's gonna let like states handle it like if a trans law passes in a state she's gonna let it and i don't think anti-trans laws are gonna have a good time interesting trying to pass because the the right age shit yeah they really thought they were gonna at least have a competitive edge and no one voted for it and again like there's a lot of turfs that were more aligned with the far right yeah but they were not acting like it their rhetoric didn't look until a couple months ago like the rhetoric that britain or the u.s turfs uh have

both types of u.s turf that i think there... We have every single type of TERF here in Mexico. If you can think of a type of TERF, we have it. I think Britain is mostly wine moms, and the US is both NGO freaks and, like, hippie weirdos, like, ex-anarchists, deep green resistance types, right? Yeah, well, I need to draw

the line here, damn it. The deep green resistance people were never anarchists. They were always weird primitivists, like van like vanguard is primitivist yeah i know i love that article by julie who accompanied me in the last episode about someone throwing a hot dog at them it fucking rules and but yeah right like we had that like we even have like a debris resistance mexico thing yeah going on for, like, a couple of years. So Mexican turfs here that align themselves with the far right are going to see both less resources, because the far right is healing some bruised egos.

So the right-wing are going to have to go full fascist, which, oh, they will. Yeah, many such cases. Oh, they will. Yeah. Many such cases. Yeah. They cannot longer get money from like your center, right? Like respectable democracy.

People who are made basically are just right. They spend most of their time just complaining about like Maduro and AMLO. Yeah. Like treating like everyone's the same thing. Because the only thing they want is, like, just... They want neoliberalism, and I'm tired of telling them, we have neoliberalism. Yeah. Like, why am I just neoliberalism with a little bit of

just enough, like, welfare state to, like, keep everything from blowing up? So, yeah, that's the case here. They ate shit, they don't have money, so they either have to find local fascists, which they have or they have to appeal to brits with things like the boxing scandal yeah and that that sort of brings us full circle to like i guess literally the present day as in like the time this is being recorded yeah where their big attempt to like generate a bunch of revenue for themselves and like bring themselves back into the spotlight has kind of blown up in their faces.

Yeah. And listen, one of the few good parts of like Morena's co-option of feminism is that some previously like, I don't want to say controversial, like i don't want to say controversial but like there were really a lot of campaigns to try to remove prestige from any any prominent uh trans inclusive feminists in mexico like mexican academia and mexican uh like high feminism really started to go full wrath him in 2016 and it started by trying to attack any single prestigious feminist that was not a TERF. Chief amongst them is Marta Lamas, who I love her. She's extremely lame, but I still love her. Because she comes from a history of not quite radical, but not quite radical Mexican academia that says reformist in method radical in objectives

sure sure but she at least thinks it's true and lives by it and uh she's if you want to read stuff by her she has one of the best accounts of uh the history of sex work in mexico a fantastic book fully recommended yeah we'll put we'll put a link to that in the description yeah so she got into like the mayor of mexico city's uh team she is now in clara brugada's team and clara is like the front runner for the next presidential candidate she is not shaman's friend so my suspicion is that shaman is keeping her terms on reserve to push back against Clara. Oh, interesting. To find another female candidate and prop her up as the feminist successor to Claudia. Or a male candidate.

She needs feminists on her side, on reserve, to combat Clara. Clara, again, is further to live than Shane Bond, and she doesn't come from an academic background. She comes from a grassroots urban movement background in the like the hood of Mexico City in turn Brugada needs more institutional and like legit support and Marta Lamas while she was controversial because of tariffs smearing her but she is Marta Lamas and she is white as hell. So Clara got her in her team, and now she gets to be the chief leftist feminist in Mexico. Because, like, if Claudia starts talking too much about feminism, well, she's a Google search away from, like, TERF scandals.

Yeah, yeah. And Marta really pushed back against TERF influence in Morena, which I'm really thankful. Like, if you're going to be co-opted, that's the least amount of, like, allyship you need to fucking do, right? Yeah, yeah, you need to push the TERFs out from your, like, fucking mansion.

We can push X to the left. Well, then do it. People love saying they want to push politicians to the left and then don't push politicians to the left. They just want to have the critic power. Yeah.

Is there anything else that you want to make sure we get to before we wrap up? I think wrapping up to the Redox magazine. Keep an eye on those kinds of places that are trying to connect things. We already saw that this can

spill over from mexico or brazil or korea yeah i think korea is gonna be bad yeah yeah so the thing about korea i haven't done much about we probably will at some point cover the stuff in korea um korea's having a really really sort of unbelievable sort of anti-feminist backlash but this has also had the impact of like really empowering the radfems yeah and it's uh it's a complete catastrophe um yeah i would really advise against idealizing feminist movement elsewhere yeah do your research don't don't just accept on face value that a face from a third world country is going to be the voice of the global south. That's just not fucking true.

If you hear a face of the global south, it's probably because there's money behind it. Unless you're really deep and know your shit, the first thing that's going to show up is going to have money behind it. So be really careful with other feminist movements i saw how people idealized mexican feminism not knowing just how deeply both infiltrated by the government and paid by far-right groups and that really backfired like one of the only survivors of right-leaning but left-presenting feminists that's called brujas del mar yeah uh

they're probably the only group that's going to survive during the shame on presidency yeah big big turf group yeah they never tried to get close to shame on but also they are they never dropped the mask fully and they're one of the biggest pushers of the imanethim not the originators those are the more uh internationally connected but they were the biggest pushers of it they have the most followers they really push the narrative they were featured in times 100 like aruciunda was times 100 from mexico so be really careful of who you think are supporting yeah because this is going to be happening i think it's it might be over for now in mexico and And I think we didn't win,

but maybe we can stop them from resurging in five years or so. And then I think that would really seal the deal. But this is going to be happening everywhere. You're going to see it a lot in African feminist movements, in Southeast Asian feminist movements. You're going to see it pop up all over the world. Take a lesson from Mexico and look for trans folks over there. Ask them, hey, is this person cool?

Yeah. Just the minimum due diligence before sharing GoFundMe and shit. Pleads, for the love of God. Again, a dollar goes a long way here. So if even you give something that would barely cover rent for someone in the United States, that's enough to set up an organization here. Yeah. And really fuck local politics for years to come.

So, I don't know, please be careful. Yeah. So, if people want to find you and the stuff that you do that is not shit, where can they find you? Well, I'm on XDAverythingApp as M.A.A.A.Q. Flores. And also I have a podcast called Fresapatistas con Crema. It's a really good pun in Spanish, trust me.

And I'm also trying to launch a project that's going to be like a sort of media watchdoggy thing. Again, we're working with like scents here. So it's going to take a while. Yeah. Keep an eye out if i don't know if you if you want to learn more stuff about mexico and like what's going on beyond like either far-right news like that saw shamebone in a photograph with a trans flag and freaked out or just like people who take everything at face value and believe that shamebone is the second coming of marx so i don't know i'll try to keep folks posted because it's complicated like yeah we took us an hour to talk about even just one topic yeah things complicated who who could possibly have guessed

that you know it's it's difficult to understand very convoluted political configurations yeah so yeah for now i'm only on X, because and YouTube, again, I stream on Twitch. Honestly, this is gonna sound maybe you're gonna but I really admire y'all. Like, I

honestly, I both that and a little bit of envy. I wish there's not really an ecosystem of like content creation or or news uh from a leftist perspective here like most of the people again a lot of them also got co-opted i i a lot of friends i had in like independent leftist publishing and news in mexico are now like full-on like just more in the spokespeople or they went insane and anti-vax and like now they're far right well yeah many such cases yeah so uh this has been

it could happen here you can find us in the places and until then i defeat your local turfs yeah and don't become j Dore. That too. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian.

Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. headlines everywhere. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well.

Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Parenti. And I'm Jimei Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, the early career podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. One of the most exciting things about having your first real job is that first real paycheck.

You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions like, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions like, how should I be investing this money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k? Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Toot, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud, but I'm like, every single year, you need to be asking for a raise of somewhere between 10 to 15%. I'm not saying you're going to get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting eight, that is actually a true raise. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot.

Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the show. It's just James today, and I'm joined by Dr. Singh.

Dr. Singh's an educator based in California, and we're talking today about the recent attempted assassination of a Sikh activist and this now years-long tendency of India to attempt to assassinate Sikh activists in the United States and in Canada and probably in other places too. So welcome to the show, Dr. Singh. All right, thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, you're welcome. So I think people listening to this for the first time might not be super familiar with the situation in India and also like what Khalistan is and what that means. So I want to get into both of those things. To start with, I think, could you maybe explain

Khalistan, explain what it means? Maybe people have seen this yellow and green flag or just, you know, heard the word, but they might not know what it means. So could you break that down for us? Sure, sure. So Khalistan is essentially a freedom of liberation movement that starts in Punjab. So, it's north of India. And Punjab is a region that is populated primarily of Sikhs, though the population numbers are changing. And so, Khalistan is essentially sovereignty, freedom. It's its own homeland. So, it's labeled as a sick homeland however there will be many different ethnicities many different people of religious backgrounds in khalistan so it is an ongoing movement the indian state of course it's not in their best interest to lose a chunk of land and to lose especially a prosperous chunk of land so they're doing everything in their power

to silence those that speak about it, to oppress the people there so that they don't have enough willpower to fight back. So that's a very, very brief introduction to it. Yeah. So let's zoom out a little bit and talk about the history of Sikh people in India and then the recent tendency with Modi to sort of define Hinduism and Indianism as the same thing and you can't be one without being the other so maybe we can start with like that history of Sikh people within India we can pick it up like I guess wherever you want you can start in 1930s or uh or we can start a little bit later yeah well actually um I think it's important to start even earlier than that. The origins of Sikhs are in the region. Our faith was started in 1469 with

Guru Nanak Devji, which is in now the Pakistan region. So that's where our faith was started. And our people have essentially been fighting an existential battle since the faith was formed. So different rulers of the time, different kingdoms in that area would attempt to kind of wipe Sikhs out. And Sikhs have always been fighting back and fighting for their existence. So a small example of this is in 1738 and up until the 1770s, there was mass slaughter of Sikhs. We're talking thousands killed on a single day period. We refer to it as the Vardha in Shota Kallukara, which is basically, in our history, largest population of Sikhs decimated in a single day was in 1738 and 1770s as well. So we went from that circumstance to

essentially forming our own kingdom, forming our own country in 1799, was formally established under Maharaja Ranjit Singh, though the Sikhs were operating independently even before that and kind of governing their own regions. But in 1799, the Sikh Confederacy kind of joined and became what is now known as the region of Punjab. So the British came to colonize. They colonized India relatively quickly after arriving. And then when they approached the Sikh kingdom, not only could they not penetrate it, they had to sign a treaty with Maharaja Ranjit Singh, who was the ruler of Punjab at the time, and saying that we won't cross to this side of this river and you don't cross to this side. So they essentially signed a treaty saying saying we can coexist, but we won't come to your side because they feared the repercussions of

what that would lead to. And then slowly, as they have with many empires, they have kind of infiltrated, they paid folks, they signed traitors, and they broke broke down they annexed punjab in 1849 so we have a period of colonization from 1849 officially till 1947 and in 1947 the radcliffe line is drawn that is where pakistan is now what we see as pakistan and now india is what we see as india though before it was all together and a large region of it was punjab yeah when 1947 the what indian would refer to as independence though it was actually a transfer of power the gandhis of the time are kind of credited with the the independence movement but they were working with the british for decades before that they kind of knew that they would receive the reins once the british left the region so truly it wasn't independence movement it was a

transfer of power from the british to them so in 1947 by creating kind of relationships through some false promises the hindu leaders of the time essentially guaranteed six that you guys know how to fight for your rights if we were ever to infringe upon them you guys are allowed to be in the punjab region it's essentially going to be autonomous so after independence essentially they immediately reneged on all of their previous assurances and six have essentially kind of been fighting an independence movement since 1947. They were not allowed to speak their language. There was a Punjabi Subha movement in 1955 where they even had to fight for their native language to be able to speak their native language in their region.

And so now, moving many iterations later, what we see is Modi. Kind of the, I wouldn't say final form because we haven't lived to the end yet but he is the latest iteration of hindu nationalism of what extremism looks like so he has now taken the work of the gandhis and all of the prime ministers of india and kind of the indian deep state agenda and now transformed it to saying that we want to be a nation of one language, of one religion, of one kind of people. And there's really no space for minorities in there, though they won't say it openly because they want to carry the moniker of the

world's biggest democracy. They are not a secular nation. And under Modi, we've seen massacres. We've seen, you know seen very genocidal violence, which he himself allowed and which he was not even allowed to go into many Western countries because they held him accountable and responsible for leading the massacre of Muslims in 2002 Gujarat. But once he became prime minister, they kind of backed away from that stand and chose financial relationships. So today we are in a place where Sikhs, being less than 2% of the

population in India, are continuing their struggle for liberation. And the Indian state, kind of consistent with their agenda since 1947, doesn't have room for that difference, doesn't have room not only to give them their rights, but liberation entirely. And that's the next step beyond that. So that's where we are today. Yeah, there's a significant Sikh community, especially on the west coast of the USA, right? And I've met probably hundreds of Sikh people in the last year crossing the border for the reasons you've just outlined and others of course deciding they're nearly all coming from india right and punjab and they have told me some really terrible stories right some really upsetting things i've heard

from lots of other people it's not unique to them but uh there's a significant sick population on the west coast of the u.s and in canada too so can you explain i know that sick people here have been organizing for khalistan for some time there was even like like a vote recently if i understand correctly so can you explain like that history of the sick diaspora and how they've been really important in in getting the word out and advocating first yeah i'm glad we touched on migration, actually. Mass migration out of Punjab is not a natural phenomenon. It is the outcome of very genocidal violence. And further than that, it's the continued violence and oppression through different ways. So one example is,

there's a strong drug nexus in that area. And anyone who is distributing drugs is protected by the Indian state, whether through bribery, whether through their agenda in general of keeping Punjab kind of addicted and away from liberation. So that is one aspect of it. Further, Punjab, for the listeners, Punjab means the land of five rivers. Punj means five and Ab means water. So its name is literally created on river water. And the Indian state has now taken those river waters, diverted them to different states of India. And Punjab gets no royalty for those as opposed to any other state of India.

If they have a natural resource, they get to sell it and their state gets the benefit of that. So Punjab at this point has been giving trillions of gallons of water to different states for free. And Punjab is, there's different numbers out there, but 60 to 65% an agrarian society. So everyone is essentially farming. And what the farmers of Punjab are being forced to do is dig underground for water, even though they have natural river water that should be going through Punjab itself, which they can redistribute. So there's a huge farmer suicide problem happening in Punjab because they are unable to get out of debt. They are viewing farming as an unprofitable kind of a dead-end business,

as opposed to farming in many other places. So it's very profitable. There's sick farmers in California who are multi-multi-millionaires. So it's not an unprofitable business. However, the state has made it that way, understanding that if we can cripple farming, their water supply, and get their next generation addicted to drugs, then they'll be forced. So the mass migration we see is not natural. It is the outcome of that. And I'm sorry, I think I forgot the second part of your question. Something about six in the Western. Yeah, no, that's okay. That was a really good explanation. It's really important. I think we should just take a little advertising break here.

All right, we're back. Yeah, so the second part I wanted to ask about was the importance of this diaspora community in organizing for Khalistan, right? Because in addition to all these Indian government policies that you've outlined that are having these impacts in Punjab and like we shouldn't discount that climate change is also having impacts there right absolutely across the whole Indian subcontinent but in addition to that right there's a very powerful and developed Khalistan movement in the United States and in Canada that has been advocating for the issue and raising, I think, awareness. And that's what's

being targeted now, right? Yeah, absolutely. Because they understand that if you say that word Khalistan within Punjab, the police is working with them, the judicial system is working with them, every single facet of any organizational institution is working for them. So, I mean, there's been many people that do mention it and they end up dead, they end up in jails, they are silenced in one way or another. So despite that though, still many more folks that believe in Khalistan in Punjab than there are anywhere else in the world.

And they are willing to say it openly despite the consequence of that which is essentially jail or death in the millions so what happens is when we when six uh are a forced to migrate out or migrate out for any reason they still hold those aspirations with them they still remember the plight of their people in punj. So they have freedom of speech, which is what you should have in democracies, which they don't have in India. So when they have freedom of speech, they express those aspirations to the point where there are people being killed all over the world. We named Canada and the US, but there was an activist poisoned in the UK

just last year. There's been folks killed in Pakistan, which is on the other side of the border for India, and they tried to assassinate a Sikh in New York, and as recently as a few days ago, they tried to assassinate a Sikh here in California. So, I mean, the movement is very much alive, and it's on the up. And I think the Indian state understands this, but they're having a tough time kind of wrapping their head around how to silence folks outside of their borders. Yeah. That's really where we are because within their borders,

it's full on suppression. You can't say it. Folks within Punjab, when they leave Punjab and they come to different countries, say it, folks within Punjab, when they leave Punjab and they come to different countries, their eyes kind of finally open as to why they were in the conditions they were in. It's almost like when you're in the middle of a storm, you don't know you're in a storm. But when looking on the outside in, you're seeing, hey, this is a very intentional and systematic genocide that is happening against our people. So that is one aspect of it, but it's

becoming more organized and there's a referendum, there's intellectuals, there's conferences happening, there's grassroots organization. And so Sikhs have the concept called Chardikala. And Chardikala is essentially ever-rising spirits, is that no matter the dire conditions that you may be under, you still keep the hope for sovereignty and liberation alive. And we've seen that in our history where our population, due to the oppression and the massacres, dwindled down to the hundreds and they were living in jungles. And even then they would exit the jungles, fight, work to free those being captured by the Mughals at the time, or the people in the region. And they would die fighting oftentimes. And so now we're in a position where there's millions of us. We have

no excuse. We keep the aspiration for sovereignty alive. And we see it kind of thriving in places where we're allowed to express ourselves. Yeah. So I think we should talk about this kind of transnational repression. It's not by any means unique to India. I mean, famously, Russia loves to do this too, right? But let's talk about some of these incidents. There was a foiled assassination attempt in November of last year, right? That the DOJ arrested an Indian national for.

There was a successful assassination in Canada and an attempted assassination just this week, as you say, in Northern California. Yeah. I mean, transnational repression is not a new phenomenon. But what we'd like to do is actually have it addressed for what it is. Why is it that the American public understands or the Western public understands that Russia does it? But when it comes to India, it's almost seen as this kind of yoga, chai tea, peace loving place where in reality, anyone from there and anyone that's been on the other end of kind of oppression

understands what india truly is so i think what we'd like to do is i don't think it's uh unreasonable this is a nation that is very openly going on to other sovereign nations land and targeting their citizens of any religious background. So I think it's something that these governments should be taking seriously. And the fact that it continues to happen, I think, is a reflection of how not seriously it's being taken. If it was, you know, if there's, you know, some sort of public statements, sanctions, if there was, you know, a full-on effort to say that this is a violation of our sovereignty yeah it would perhaps slow down but it's continuing and it's continuing rapidly where we're seeing gunshots and um you know even though indian nationals are being extradited to the states

it's not stopping so i think more aggressive action is needed and the fact that it keeps happening is is it just a reflection of how lax these governments have been as a result of these actions. Yeah, you don't see it referred to in the terms of transnational oppression or really like by the US government, at least as this consolidated program. It seems to be seen as like these incidents where then, you know, joining the dots and being like, yeah, this is an attempt at repression, you know, murder of U.S. citizens in these two cases, right? I know this has happened with other diaspora communities. Sometimes the like DOJ or someone within that has reached out to people in the community, especially people who are prominent and been like, there is a legitimate risk of someone trying to kill you. Has that happened within the Sikh community? Oh, yeah, absolutely.

There's been multiple folks warned here in California, in Canada, all over the U.S. that, you know, there is legitimate threats to your life. Though it's a problem because they cannot give you any more information than that. So you ask, you know, where is the threat from? They say, we can't disclose that. It's confidential. So obviously Sikhs who advocate for sovereignty and freedom of their people back in Punjab know where the threat is from.

And I think the underlying understanding within the community is that Western countries understand it as well. understanding within the community is that Western countries understand it as well. They're essentially waiting for when it is politically acceptable, when it is politically beneficial for them to actually say something about it. And I think we are under no illusions that these guys are going to speak for us for the sake of justice, that they're going to express our perspective and condemn these nations based on the protection of Sikhs. We know our liberation is going to be the result of our efforts. But I think from a lobbying perspective, from an expression perspective, I think it is not unreasonable of us to expect that of governments where we are citizens.

Yeah, like it's kind of the trade that you make, right? In theory, like you give up a lot of freedom and in turn you get safety and you're giving up one and not getting the other right now. Right, right. Exactly. So, like, there have been various movements for khalifzad i think we should just mention that like in the 1980s more like confrontational attempts at khalifzad like independence were met with collective punishment by the indian state and and non-sick people right within india yeah so um going dating back to the 80s actually up until 84 there was no united movement for independence something else was kind of uh the face of the thick rights

movement but in the document they had proposed to the government the anandpur side resolution it wasn't a proposition for exclusively six and i think that's an important point to continue to mention is that the way the indian state portrays khalistan is anti-hindu and i think they understand that to get the public support we need to portray movements or anything really that's not in our interest as anti-hindu we need to make them feel threatened. And if we can do that, there will be support for us to engage in these collective punishments. So in the 80s and 90s, actually, we call it the decade of disappearances, is where the Indian government went from village to village, disappearing six, hundreds of thousands. Essentially, our last generation was wiped out by the Indian state.

And they would dispose of their bodies in crematories, throw them in rivers. And we basically say that there's a sixth river of blood in Punjab because that is just how many young men were killed from 85 to 1995. So there was an armed resistance against this. I mean, they were seeing their sisters taken into police stations and all kinds of atrocities committed against them. They were seeing their brothers disappeared, their family members. So at some point, it is better to give up your life than to live in these circumstances. And so that is the brink that they were pushed to. And so we lean on their example, though the movement is not quite exactly at that same place today. We lean on their example in that saying,

these people were willing to give up their lives for this cause and us sitting in comfort, even if it's you know temporary safety we have a responsibility to to move this movement forward and with these new assassinations that's another important thing to mention we saw murders of essentially the biggest punjabi pops um in in history. I mean, this guy was in Hollywood. He was everywhere. And when he started talking about Khalistan,

when he started making music regarding Punjab's rights, he was assassinated. And we're seeing a new wave of Indian oppression. And for the first time now, people that thought, oh, the 80s and 90s, you know, you guys could be making something up. Maybe the Indian government is right. You guys

could be making something up. Now they're seeing these assassinations happen in front of their eyes. And they're making the judgment call as to who is in the right and who isn't. And I think that's another reason that the Khalistan movement continues to gain kind of solidarity within the Sikhs all over the world. Yeah, sure. Like if a government is trying to assassinate people for just essentially saying something, it disagrees with it. It's not hard to see like who's in the wrong. Exactly. So I wonder, like, obviously, there's a genuine threat to Sikh communities here that continues to be a threat to sick migrants

like from both political parties in the united states right yeah i'm i'm interested but not hopeful to see how their asylum claims go like based on this very obvious discrimination that you've outlined yeah and there's this threat to sick people in their homeland in punjab how can people who are not sick who are not part of the community like be in solidarity how can they support what can they do to like i guess yeah to stop people being murdered um well it's it sounds cliche to say awareness but at this point in time they're just enough people aware of you know how in danger they. Because if they don't speak for six today, tomorrow it could be them. And if the Western governments are allowing foreign nations

to come in and they have embassies in these countries and they're allowing these nations to kind of, you know, assassinate their citizens, then what's to say that they won't be next tomorrow? It's the age old saying, there was no one left to speak for me. That's part of it, is you have to understand the ramifications of ignoring something like this. So I guess the first thing we'd like to see is solidarity with that. Palestine now, most folks have an opinion on it, or at least they've heard the word. And they've seen six everywhere. We're the folks that walk around with turbans, and we're one of the probably 99% of people you see with turbans on our Sikhs. And so we're a very visible community. However, the reasons we're here, our plight, understanding of our background

is generally lacking. So I think the more that we can understand who six are what their beliefs are what they're fighting for why they're here to begin with i think um you know there will be more political pressure regarding that and i'm seeing it starting to shift slightly especially in the past five to ten years we've tipped the scales just slightly but we're far from from anywhere substantial yeah i think for like at least for my group of friends where we go down to the border and help people and like we've encountered sick people because they were always there with us helping us right like some sick folks flew down from other places and joined us and then stayed out there and helped us feed people and like sick folks have shown up for other

people substantially like all over the world and I think it would be really good to see people kind of reflect that that solidarity that's kind of baked into the Sikh religion that it would be nice to see people doing that in return absolutely as Sikhs organized for their own community safety like obviously there's like a pressing danger to to people especially people who are vocal like a seeks organized to like take care of one another in that sense uh to some extent yes and again a part of organization and having support that comes from that organization is having political power and six have political power in, in certain instances,

but they do not have a homeland or the resources to kind of back it up. And, you know, politics kind of lobbying works with money. So the fact that we have these immigration problems, a is a result of India's efforts, but B the reason that they don't have the support they need is because six don't have a homeland where they can say, all right, these are our beliefs.

These are our people. We support our people. We will give them these resources that they need. So we're kind of always operating at a grassroots level. Yeah. And that's part of the issue is why there's not grand or large scale change, but it continues to march forward. As generations grow up, as they become more involved in different facets, a lot of people, especially in the United States, are first generation. So our parents' generation was just focused on surviving. How are we going

to put food on the table? How are we going to put a roof over your head? And so the next generation kind of has the opportunity to explore how they can make a difference for their people. So Canada is getting there. The UK is getting there. US is behind just because our migration here was later than those places to that level, but it's getting there. Yeah, that's good. So people want to find out more about the Sikh religion or Sikh people,

are there good resources that you could suggest? Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a very thorough background of what Khalistan is just on khalistan.org. So K-H-A-L-I-S-T-A-N.org. They have publications, they have documentaries, they've done a significant amount of work to give the background of A, why Sikhs will never stop fighting for freedom. And B, kind of what the circumstances are today. So they've done a fairly good job at that. Other than that, there's pages on social media. There's Free5AB, which stands for Free Punjab.

It's on Twitter tiktok okay yeah and of course tiktok has deleted that page many times so we're trying to figure out where the where the alliances are there and instagram of course has done their thing based on their alliances yeah but there are some resources out there and And of course, if you Google it, the first things that are going to come up is Times of India, Hindustan Times, basically saying this is a terrorist movement people just have it out for us but the reality is entirely different and and the facts speak to that and i think the assassination attempts of today the folks that remain in indian jails today there's a uk citizen in indian jail there are you know folks that are dying in indian prisons There's folks that have completed their sentences, six, 30 plus years, still sitting in Indian prisons. So all of the circumstances today kind of speak

to why this movement exists and will continue to exist. So hopefully we can take advantage of some of the resources out there. Yeah, that's great. And I hope people will go and like educate themselves. You can look up Khalsa Aid as well if you're interested in like the sort of solidarity and support side of Sikhism those people have been great at the border and I know they've done tons of other great humanitarian work as well absolutely yeah

is there anything else you'd like people to know before we finish up here like about Sikhs or about Khalistan or things they can do to help yeah Yeah, I think I would, especially all the viewers, I would like everyone to be open to the opportunity that there are more people in the world that are seeking to suppress and oppress than just what is told by American media today. At least be open to the opportunity. India is the world's biggest democracy today until it's not anymore. And communities like the Sikhs who have experienced violent genocide and today are experiencing a genocide, I think it's very important to understand that the Sikh genocide never ended. It continues today in different facets and different forms so that's a and b

the struggle for freedom and sovereignty though they they want to put it on so the indian state continuously tries to kill two birds with one stone um they have enmity with pakistan so they try to say that khalistan is a movement is a byproduct of kind of pakistani interference yeah even though the facts speak otherwise that if it's not pakistan that killed hundreds of thousands of six it's not pakistan that is assassinating six out in these foreign countries so they try to kill two birds with one stone india is definitely not a democracy i would like the viewers to be open to that possibility as well. And do your own research, of course. I have a perspective based on the circumstances that my

people have been through, and I would hope everyone can form a more thorough understanding, and that there is a lot more happening, especially in that region, than is politically correct to say right now. So that's what I'll finish with. Yeah, that's great. Thank you very much for that. I think that's a really good place to finish. Thank you so much for your time. And I really appreciate you explaining that for us. Of course. Thank you for having me, James. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean.

He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian, Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian, Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom.

At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Parente. And I'm Jimei Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, the early career podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. One of the most exciting things about having your first real job is that first real paycheck.

You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions like, how should I be investing this money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k? Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud, but I'm like,

every single year you need to be asking for a raise of somewhere between 10 to 15%. I'm not saying you're going to get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting eight, that is actually a true raise. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not.

Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it.

Welcome to Codopny Hand. I'm Andrew Siege from the YouTube channel YouTube channel Andrewism and I'm joined again by James. Hey Andrew. Welcome back. Time to talk about political cults again. Oh good, fine. Continuing with the work of Dennis Turish and Tim Woolforth in their book On the Edge, Political Cults Left and Right. I've spoken before about the cult recruitment process, the contradictory positions held by cult members, ideological totalism, and the commonalities of political cults including rigid belief systems, immunity to falsification, authoritarianism, arbitrary leadership, deification of leaders, intense activism, and the use of loaded language.

And speaking of loaded language, I know that some people don't like the term cult because it is, you know, very charged. I prefer it personally. I know that other terms are used such as high control groups or new religious movements, but I'm sticking to cults. My question for you, James, do you think that you'll be susceptible to a cult? One hopes not. We spoke about authoritarian personalities before, and I wonder if there's something similar

for people who end up in cults. But I'm sure there's something that could get any of us, we all have our susceptibilities to these things, but I hope it wouldn't be. For for sure i mean one one would like to think you know yeah i'm built different you know i wouldn't fall into a cult but you know really especially considering the paucity of community these days it's it's little wonder that so many people find a home in such harmful and abusive spaces. So previously, I've touched on the LaRouche movement, the Newman tendency, and the United Red Army of Japan, the latter of which ended up killing some people. Today, we'll be looking at another case study, not nearly as extreme, but still quite abusive. This time, the infamous Marlene Dixon and her Democratic Workers

Party. Fun times. Fun times indeed. I also got some information on Dixon's activity, not just from On the Edge, but also from the book Bounded Choice, True Believers and Charismatic Cults by Janja Lalic, who was actually a member of Dixon's Democratic Workers' Party for 10 years. I like that. A lot of books written about cults are written by former cult members. Yeah, I mean, I think it can be like the point you raised in your initial question, right? Like everyone likes to think they're special and not susceptible and i can see how books written about them could be written from a place of like condescension or you know othering so like i think it's always good when folks who have survived

these things could write about them yeah for sure for sure i mean one of the authors of on the edge uh tim wall for he was also part of a trotskyist cult so these are people who are speaking from experience yeah i was writing about cults long before i started this podcast there was some weird cult-like behaviors in endurance sports and uh i spoke to an expert and she also was a survivor and uh introduced me to some other survivors of some more sort of classic left political cults and like it wasn't something i ever really felt comfortable like narrating their experiences i would rather they narrate their experiences for sure it was it was really interesting to see how many of them were

like so willing to write about it and to talk about it and wanted to educate people about it yeah i mean one of the reasons i'm particularly passionate about political cults is just the way that they sap the energy, the passion, the drive, the potential of what should be, you know, people involved in, you know, really positive change. They end up getting sucked in and the energies get sapped by these causes, by these leaders that just sort of diverts their potential trajectory yeah absolutely i think anyone who is active in in the united states on the left in 2020 can attest to the ability of some of these groups to just cut the soul out of out of a popular movement which was making a positive difference at one point. Right. So let's get into it. Marlene Dixon was born into a family that valued education and intellectual pursuit. From a young age, she was immersed in an environment that fostered deep

appreciation for learning and critical thinking. And this foundation significantly influenced her future path, setting the stage for her academic and political endeavors. Growing up, Dixon showed an early interest in sociology, a field that would later become her academic and professional focus. She pursued higher education with a passion, earning her undergraduate degree and going on to complete a PhD in sociology in the University of California. Her doctoral studies were marked by a rigorous exploration of social structures and inequalities, themes that would resonate throughout her career. As a sociology professor, Dixon's classroom was more than just a place for academic instruction, it was a forum for radical ideas and critical debate. Her teaching was infused with a strong feminist

perspective, challenging traditional notions and encouraging students to question societal norms. This feminist ideology was not just an academic interest, but a driving force behind her activism and the formation of her political beliefs. However, even earlier on we're getting signs that something's a bit awry. According to some of her former students and colleagues, it was also during those years that she became interested in mass social psychology and group behavior modification. She studied Robert J. Lifton's work on thought reform. She studied and admired total communities, aka cults,

and other directed methods of behavioral control, such as Alcoholics Anonymous. She believed that these programs provided positive ways to change people. Dixon's early academic career also provided her with a platform to connect with like-minded individuals who shared her passion for social justice. These connections have proved crucial as she moved beyond the confines of academia and into the world of radical political activism. Her political awakening came during a time of significant social and political upheaval. The 60s and 70s were decades marked by civil rights movements, anti-war protests, and a growing disillusionment with the status quo.

Dixon was deeply influenced by the principles of Marxism, Leninism, and Maoism. Marxism provided her with a free movement for understanding class struggle and the exploitation inherent in capitalist societies. Lenin's organizational principles, particularly the concept of the vanguard party, were also integral to Dixon's political thought. Lenin argued, of course, that a disciplined, centralized party was necessary to lead the ruling class to revolution. Dixon adopted this idea wholeheartedly, seeing the need for a tightly controlled, hierarchical organization that could guide the proletariat towards socialism. Mao Zedong's influence on Dixon was particularly evident in her approach

to internal party dynamics. Mao's emphasis on continuous revolution and self-criticism as tools for maintaining ideological purity resonated with Dixon. She implemented rigorous criticism and self-criticism sessions within her future party, a practice that aimed to eliminate bourgeois tendencies and reinforce commitment to the party's goals. Dixon's political engagement wasn't limited to theoretical discussions. She was actively involved in radical movements, participating in protests, and organizing efforts that sought to challenge existing power structures. Her activism extended beyond national borders, as she connected with international revolutionary movements

and drew inspiration from their struggles. The culmination of these influences and experiences led to the founding of the Democratic Workers' Party in 1974. Dixon's vision for the Democratic Workers' Party, or DWP, was deeply rooted in this idea of Leninist democratic centralism, Maoist self-critique, and Marxist anti-capitalism. But beyond Marx, Lenin, and Mao, the New Communist Movement, or NCM, played a significant role in shaping Dixon's approach. The NCM was a diverse collection of groups that emerged in the late 1960s and early 1970s, advocating for a revitalized communist

movement in the United States. The NCM sought to build new Marxist-Leninist organizations that could address the shortcomings of the old left and provide a fresh, militant alternative. Dixon was of course deeply inspired by the NCM's emphasis on building a revolutionary vanguard and its commitment to rigorous theoretical work and practical activism. At the time, the DWP was getting a lot of credit for being one of the few feminist and women-led organizations in the new communist movement, which allowed the group to draw radicals from leftist circles as well as the women's movement and the gay movement. When most NCM groups were virulently homophobic and dismissive

of feminism, the DWP had a unique allure. Early on in her political career, Marlene Dixon also contributed theoretically to the DWP with the concept of proletarian feminism, which allowed the DWP to stand up both against class prejudice and sexism and for the equality of all people. Over time, though, her concept of proletarian feminism became less prominent in the DWP's approach and in the literature. In the early stages, the concept of proletarian feminism attracted a lot of people, including Jan Jalilic, the author of Bounded Choice, who had been part of the DWP. The early days of the DWP were marked by a significant effort to recruit and train new members. Dixon and her close associates focused on building a cadre of dedicated revolutionaries

who were deeply committed to the party's goals. These members were not just activists, but ideological soldiers prepared to dedicate their lives to the cause of socialism. Recruitment often targeted young intellectuals and activists who were disillusioned with mainstream politics and eager for radical change. In this early period, the party organized study groups, protests, and community outreach programs, all aimed at raising political consciousness and building support for the party's revolutionary agenda. Dixon's charisma and intellectual rigor inspired many, but her leadership style also had its challenges. Early on, she had very authoritarian tendencies, influenced by her admiration for Mao Zedong, and it led to a highly controlled and often repressive internal atmosphere.

Members were subjugated to rigorous criticism and self-criticism sessions and these sessions could be psychologically taxing creating an atmosphere of constant scrutiny and pressure this is exemplary of social psychologists anthony pratt canis and elliot aronson's seven step guide to creating a political cult which included crucially maintaining a rigid internal regime in these early years we can also see the signs of their other steps such as creating a distinct which included, crucially, maintaining a rigid internal regime. In these early years, we can also see the signs of their other steps, such as creating a distinct social reality, building commitment through dissonance reduction,

sending members to proselytize, and fixating members on a promised land. The promised land being, of course, international communism. The GWP grew steadily in its early years. Full-time members, called cadres or militants, typically numbered between 125 and 150 people, but in certain periods there were between 300 and 1,000 members at various grades of affiliation. One of the DWP's primary areas of focus was labor organizing. Dixon and her colleagues saw the labor movement as a critical battleground for the struggle against capitalism, and they dedicated significant resources to supporting labor strikes,

organizing union drives, and advocating for workers' rights. The DWP's members often worked closely with existing labor unions, providing support and promoting a more radical, class-conscious approach to labor activism. And this involvement helped party gain credibility and trust among workers, who saw the WP as genuine allies in their struggle. Members were also active in campaigns for affordable housing, healthcare, and education, working to build coalitions with other progressive organizations and community groups. Political education was another cornerstone of their activities. Dixon believed that a well-informed and ideologically grounded membership was essential for the party's success,

so they had regular study groups, workshops and lectures on Marxist theory, current events, and revolutionary strategy. And these activities were not limited to members, but were also used as tools for outreach. Eventually, the party's activities extended beyond its initial base in San Francisco and reached other parts of California, even gaining attention on a national scale. Dixon's ability to connect with other radical movements and a strategic vision for the DWP's role in the broader revolutionary struggle had played a significant part in this growth. But despite their successes, behind the scenes was not too hot, to put it lightly.

While Dixon's theoretical acumen and charm had attracted many to her cause, her methods of maintaining control within the party was what gave it its cult connotations. One of the central aspects of Dixon's control was her personal domination over the party and its members. aspects of Dixon's control was her personal domination over the party and its members. Dixon established herself as the undisputed leader of the DWP, demanding absolute loyalty and obedience. Laylish describes her as a large, loud woman who exuded a type of charisma that could be difficult for outsiders to comprehend. Her personal style was abrasive and she was stern and domineering. Nonetheless, Dixon was able to exact commitment from her followers that entailed devotion to her person and undying defense of her actions as their leader. On the surface, they seem worlds apart.

One is steeped in political ideology, the other in spiritual salvation. But dive deeper, and you'll find that the currents beneath their surface flow with striking similarities. Take, for instance, the role of charisma. Like Applewhite in The Nettles of Heaven's Gate, Dixon used words as her craft, her instrument, speaking to eager audiences, weaving a vision of hope that drew people in. She wasn't just persuasive, she was magnetic. She created a myth for herself that seemed to fit with the revolutionary zeitgeist of the time. Lalish describes that when she first joined the party, Dixon was a towering presence, who created an intense, almost sacred bond with them. Lalish speaks of how the followers were awed by her, desperate to follow her vision, willing

to endure her criticism just to stay in her good graces. And when Dixon would spend some time away and came back, they would spend long, grueling meetings where she would dissect every decision they made and criticize everything they did in her absence, showing them all the ways they had fallen short. It was brutal, but it also reinforced her authority over them as they wanted to get her approval at all times. One of her documents on the development of Leninist democracy told the followers that the leadership was about authority, not popularity,

and that whether we liked her or not, we had to accept her as the ultimate authority in the party. Lattice also says that they were made to believe that being part of the DWP was a privilege. Authority wasn't just accepted, it was revered. And this was the foundation of their relationship with Dixon. She was the leader, the guiding force, and they were the followers, committed, obedient, and always seeking her approval. And yet, there was a secret at the heart of her lure. She was a mythmaker. Her backstory was curated, embellished, to paint herself as a champion of civil rights when the reality was far less dramatic. Systems of Control is another area where the DWP and Heaven's Gate shared common ground.

Both groups thrived on a mix of carrot and stick, promises of a better future, harsh discipline for failure. The leaders would live apart from their followers, hidden away while their followers toiled and sacrificed. Every day was a test, every misstep a reason for criticism. And leaders were never revealing themselves fully. They created a distance that would heighten their mystique and their authority. In the DWP, there was a very strict hierarchy and chain of command. Dixon was at the top, she had a select few leaders below her, and decisions were made top down. Democratic centralism, which was the Leninist tactic that theoretically allowed for debate and democracy, was really there to enforce obedience.

Members were also split into tiers. You had trial members, candidate members, and general members. Each level carried distinct privileges and obligations. An advancement was up to Dixon. She decided who leveled up in the party. Sanctions for violations ranged from increased duties to expulsion, the severest being expulsion with prejudice, effectively erasing the individual from party history. And the party's first purge, notably the quote-unquote lesbian purge, exemplified Dixon's control tactics as it targeted perceived threats within the group and set a precedent for internal purges that instilled fear and loyalty among the members. And then lastly, there was transcendent belief, another area where Heaven's Gate and the DWP had common ground. For Heaven's Gate, it was about transcending human life to reach a higher plane of existence. For the DWP, it was about transforming society, reaching utopia through

class struggle. The daily life of DWP members was highly regimented. Dixon had strict routines and expectations, demanded complete dedication to the party's activities. Members were subjected to intense scrutiny, particularly those of the evil middle-class backgrounds. And this method, of course, effectively suppressed dissent and ensured that members remained tightly bound to Dixon's vision. This relentless schedule that had them working long hours both in their day jobs and on party related tasks left them little time for pursuits or outside relationships which also helped Dixon maintain control over their lives. By limiting members interactions with outsiders Dixon minimized the risk of external influences undermining her authority.

And this isolation extended to living arrangements as well, as members lived communally, which further reinforced their dependence on the party and their separation from mainstream society. controlled and insular environment within the WP, as members were constantly monitored by both Dixon and their other peers to ensure that any deviation from the party line was quickly identified and addressed. The use of fear, guilt, and psychological manipulation kept members in line. And of course, the control was not just psychological, it was physical. Because when you're isolated, when you're working all the time, your body is going to break down, you're exhausted, you're burnt out. And the emotional strain of constant criticism doesn't exactly help either. But all of this worked to keep party members in their place. The controversy surrounding the DWP's methods and leadership eventually drew attention from both within the

leftist movement and from external observers. Critics argued that Dixon's authoritarianism and the party's cult-like practices were antithetical to the principles of socialism and genuine revolutionary activity, but these criticisms did little to alter the internal dynamics of the DWP during its peak. In the early days, Dixon and her followers truly believed the revolution was just around the corner. By the 1980s, recruitment was faltering, purges was narrowing the organization's focus, and the WP's aggressive tactics had led to conflicts with other leftist groups. Dixon had grown disillusioned. She'd begun to see the local struggles they were taking part in as insignificant, as mere reformist gestures. She moved the party from distributing

a local newspaper to publishing dense academic journals. She developed a stain for world systems theory, which had once been a guiding light in her movement, and rejected it as anti-socialist and cynical. In her eyes, the United States working class was no longer a beacon for evolution. In her eyes, the United States working class was no longer a beacon for revolution. Instead, she placed her faith in the USSR, in Eastern Europe, in distant lands where she believed the future of socialism lay. Her frequent travels to conferences in Europe and her focus on theoretical debates alienated her members, as the heart of their struggle had been replaced with a distant, abstract vision that none of them could grasp. But the real breaking point came with her change in strategies.

Dixon began to see the Petit Boudreaux Z as potential allies instead of enemies, as they had always been, a radical shift from ideology that her party had been taught. Beyond all that, her drinking had become more uncontrolled than usual, and her abuse of the members had increased. So in late 1985, a few of her members decided that enough was enough. While Dixon was away on one of her many trips, they gathered in secret, shared their frustrations, and laid bare the truth over what had become of the party. When Dixon returned, she was met with the harshest reality of all. They told her that the party was over, that she was expelled, and that they were dissolving

the party. Her reaction was, of course, a mix of disbelief and anger, and a final bitter confrontation with the collapse of everything she had built. Afterwards, there was, of course, a mess to clean up. The members, having endured abuse for so long, including financial abuse, took it upon themselves to divide the assets amongst themselves as a final small compensation for the years they had given. Each person received a paltry sum, a mere fraction of what they had invested. But at last, the party's ideological crises, weakened leadership, and internal strife resulted in the organization's dissolution. The party was indeed over,

and they could start their life anew. visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into Tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from.

wherever else you get your podcasts from. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami?

Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. We'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T. Connecting changes everything.