It Could Happen Here - It Could Happen Here Weekly 157

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Starting point is 00:03:00 ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. Welcome to It Could Happen Here. Oh, God. We have survived another week, and I'm joined today by Sophie and James to discuss Trump's cabinet picks and the upcoming potential members of the Trump administration 2.0. I'm sure some of you have been following the news and there is some wacky

Starting point is 00:03:33 picks in there. There keeps being even more wacky ones like RFK, which I didn't even have time to include because by the time he was announced, I basically already wrote too much. RFK will get his own future episode, but it's pretty safe to assume that RFK in control of Health and Human Services is pretty bad. You don't say. You don't say. Yeah, people are saying it. Not great to have the world's weirdest conspiracy theorist of the Kennedy family in charge of, you know, like vaccines

Starting point is 00:04:05 and health mandates. And it's going to be bad, bad enough that it's that it's its own episode for the rest of the nominations, mostly like last week. Right. This is going to be covering all the nominations in the week of the 11th to the 15th of November. We're going to kind of go through nomination by nomination and do a brief overview of each of these guys and why each one could be bad and some of them just kind of point to like more general like neocon picks as well trump kind of started off with some more ordinary picks honestly like you know like mark rubio a secretary of state this is this is kind of a restrained pick for him now rubio is still kind of converted into being a

Starting point is 00:04:45 Trump loyalist, like every single other person we're going to be talking about. And it is interesting that kind of among all of the Trump appointees, he has been the most open about his criticisms of Trump, especially during Trump's first term. The leaked 551-page VP vetting document produced by the Trump campaign outlines Rubio's anti-Putin comments, support for the Mueller investigation, his acceptance of the 2020 election results, past comments that Trump is too dangerous to be trusted with nuclear codes, and his history of supporting NATO, support of the Iraq war, and pro-military intervention in Iran and Syria. So some of these positions now kind of bump up against what Trump's

Starting point is 00:05:23 next term is going to be kind of defined by. And like more recently, Rubio has moved on from his Tea Party free trade kind of roots and now advocates for more tariffs on China and calling the country, quote, the most advanced adversary America has ever faced, unquote. Basically, all of the kind of foreign policy guys are really big on china they they are all china hawks that is kind of one continuous through line throughout all these nominations uh i guess james do you have any thoughts on on mark rubio for secretary of state yeah uh mark rubio i have a lot of thoughts on mark rubio i was expecting it all to be more along the lines of hecathus like more to be like culture war commentators yeah like at least rubio i will say like i probably disagree with him on almost everything but uh he he's he's not gonna probably abandon the the ypg and the ypj and the sdf in syria

Starting point is 00:06:17 which is a good thing he's he's pretty hawkish on that he's not a not a big ottawan fan so like that's a good thing i guess like i think as secretary of state's under trump go like it could have been fucking tucker carlson like that that's not out of the realm of possibility at this rate yeah yeah and uh it's well he spends all his time watching fox news right like that's all we've heard that he does and it's not inconceivable that he thinks these people are experts because they're presented that way. And that is how he encounters and thus perceives the world. So I guess Rubio, and even amongst these picks,

Starting point is 00:06:49 he's probably not the worst, which is wild to be saying. So is the review on Marco Rubio? Could be worse. I mean, I guess so. I mean, that's the review on Marco Rubio's life, isn't it? That's pretty much

Starting point is 00:07:00 how he's gone through the world. Yeah. I think his parents would agree with us. Ouch. Rubio is no pete hegseth uh secretary of defense yeah which was one of the first pics that like really started raising some eyebrows wild pic wild pic yeah yeah what dude has an acog tattooed on his bicep stop sending us that photo of him without a shirt on have seen it yeah never send us any cabinet

Starting point is 00:07:27 member shirtless i don't care if it's rfk i don't care if it's hegset don't want to see a nipple i saw it i didn't like it i don't need to see it again yes thank you so much i feel like everyone's pretty well aware now that he has some very questionable christian nationalist tattoos honey um not Not super uncommon for this type of military guy. He got them all after he was out. He got them in his late 30s. That also makes sense.

Starting point is 00:07:52 That feels like a very midlife crisis. Oh no, I'm a Fox & Friends weekend host now kind of move. Yeah, better up my Moulin Labe game. Now, there's a lot to be said about Pete Hegseth.

Starting point is 00:08:05 He's a Princeton and Harvard graduate who has also claimed that germs are not real and he's never washed his hands in the last 10 years. Disgusting. Saying, quote, germs are not real. I can't see them. Therefore, they're not real. So that's lovely.

Starting point is 00:08:24 So gross. You can't. What a fucking idiot. What an absolute moron. God. He's advocated against divorce for families with kids until he was caught cheating on his second wife with his producer, fathered a child, and then divorced his wife to marry his co-worker. Many such cases. In general, he's just very chud-coated, right?

Starting point is 00:08:43 He has like a grunt-style fashion, Christian nationalist tattoos. Yeah. He looks like the type of guy that I would have doxxed for fun as a teenager, except he just serves on Fox and Friends weekend hosting team. He served in Guantanamo Bay, Iraq and Afghanistan in the Army National Guard, and has recently advocated that women should not serve in combat roles in the U.S. military. I'm straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective, hasn't made us more lethal, has made fighting more complicated. We've all served with women and they're great. It's just our institutions don't have to incentivize that in places where traditionally, not traditionally, over human history,

Starting point is 00:09:26 men in those positions are more capable. He has some wild takes on what should be happening in the military. He sure does. I'm going to read a quote from his book, The War on Warriors, big sigh. Fuck's sake. The Republican Party, by default, has become the only party of America. And if we don't crusade a holy war a righteous holy war for freedom we're not going to save america unquote in general a lot of his rhetoric kind of is this similar christian nationalist crusade holy war type stuff this is like a lot of what he talks about on podcasts and tv appearances where he is not throwing a double-sided axe at the penis of a west point drummer on live tv it was incredible it was indirect fire he arced it over the target straight to the dick and balls of the

Starting point is 00:10:16 west point drummer i just feel like if he's gonna it's like somebody tell him what a microscope is somebody just tell him what a microscope is he must have used binoculars at some point in his service or some kind of magnified optic, right, to learn to see things. I mean... He has a magnified optic tattooed on his bicep, actually. He sure does. Good Lord. I mean, like, if you're going to be Secretary of Defense,

Starting point is 00:10:38 at least, like, oh, sir, wash your hands. Arguably, the most worrying part about Pete as Secretary of Defense is not the anti-handwashing beliefs or the poor aim for axe throwing. It's that he's basically a lobbyist for war criminals. Yes. to push Trump to pardon several convicted war criminals, people who tortured and murdered prisoners, and ordered soldiers to shoot and kill random unarmed civilians. So especially with this Secretary of Defense role, that's not great that he's essentially pro-war criminal and justifies it by saying people don't really understand

Starting point is 00:11:21 what it's like to serve in combat. Sometimes you have to make decisions and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all this random stuff. Not good. Sources within the government have called him the most unqualified person ever appointed to this position, which I do. I do believe because this is just a guy that Trump sees on TV. This is just a TV host. Yeah, this is one of the more shocking nominations. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:40 Let's move on to Secretary of Homeland Security. This is another odd pick. Kristi Noem, the non-border state governor of South Dakota, who has no experience in the DHS, has never worked in law enforcement, though she does possess one trademark cop trait. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, she does. And what would that be, Gare?

Starting point is 00:12:07 Which is shooting and killing dogs. Yup. Awful person. So that is one thing she might bond with our law enforcement community over. Which we all know about because she wrote about it in her own fucking book.

Starting point is 00:12:20 Girl. Yeah, incriminating herself. Another cop trait. So true. So true. She did deploy the the south dakota national guard to the border and i think they used they received private financing for it if i remember correctly yeah so like that's her engagement that one again is is troubling

Starting point is 00:12:35 so much power the dhs it's such an odd pick all of these picks we're talking about some of them do seem odd but not from the point of view that Trump is basically picking people that, one, are like in his constant orbit, like a guy on TV, but also people that are not like institutionalists, right? These aren't like people who like work their way up through these government departments to prove their like effectiveness, to prove their legitimacy. They're people that have proven their personal loyalty to Trump, right? Trump's first campaign was kind of defined by a whole bunch of people defect loyalty to Trump, right? Trump's first campaign was kind of defined by a whole bunch of people defecting from him, right? Everyone he's appointed eventually got into beefs with him. People, you know, left, wrote books about how bad Trump is.

Starting point is 00:13:15 Eventually Trump faced all these prosecutions. Trump's main concern is like loyalty right now. So he's picking people that just have proven their own loyalty. And from that point of view, all of his picks make sense. Almost everyone picked here, at least at some point, appeared on screen with Trump in his 2024 campaign six-part documentary. All of these guys. So they were around Trump's orbit from pretty early on in his campaign. Now, according to Politico, Kristi Noem was recommended by 2016 campaign chief Corey Lewandowski and his incoming border czar Tom Homan. Lewandowski sucks.

Starting point is 00:13:54 Yeah. Gotta give him a honorary, you suck Lewandowski. Her appointment is evidence of Trump centralizing power and departmental influence tightly within the White House. Mark Krikorian, executive director of the far-right Center for Immigration Studies, has postulated that the immigration branches of DHS will largely be puppeteered by Stephen Miller and the new border czar, who has a lot of DHS experience, while Nome could be more focused on overseeing FEMA, TSA, and Secret Service. Another aspect of Trump just appointing these wildly incompetent people is that more of these departments can just be run out of the White House, specifically by his senior advisors and Stephen Miller, right? Like those are the types of people that are going to be largely overseeing the direction of these departments while basically

Starting point is 00:14:40 these figureheads just to do their bidding. Yeah had worried that he would appoint stephen miller directly to dhs i understand that fear i think part of the fear is that he just doesn't have to yes i yeah no you're right in fact stephen miller can have more power by having his mitts in more departments in his current role which we will get to later uh but first let's talk about tulsi gabbard that's the appointed director of national intelligence which is crazy crazy yeah now like gnome gabbard is shockingly unqualified and she would be overseeing 18 intelligence agencies having never worked in the intelligence field or served on a congressional intelligence committee her nomination was first announced by Roger Stone on Infowars, now owned by The Onion. R.I.P. Now owned by The Onion. But that was how this news broke. So that

Starting point is 00:15:32 kind of also tells you what information channels are getting funneled down from Trump's team. If Roger Stone was the first guy to announce it before Trump even announced it in his truth socialing. she's such a conspiracy theorist that it just it does kind of make sense she is an anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist with a history of spreading russian disinformation propaganda during the invasion of ukraine yeah gabbert was also openly pro-assad in 2015 secretly met with assad in 2017 and then a year later gabbert peddled syrian war denial, saying that she was quote-unquote skeptical of intelligence findings that Assad carried out chemical weapons attacks while

Starting point is 00:16:09 parroting Russian talking points. In February 2022, she blamed Joe Biden for the war in Ukraine for not alleviating Russia's fear of Ukraine possibly joining NATO. I'm going to quote from NBC News, quote, during her 2020 presidential bid, Russian state propaganda often portrayed Gabbard favorably while it denigrated the other Democratic candidates, including Joe Biden, according to research from the Foreign Policy Research Institute, a Philadelphia-based think tank. Less than a month into her presidential campaign, there were at least 20 Gabbard stories on three major Moscow-based English language websites affiliated or supportive of the Russian government,

Starting point is 00:16:45 all of which celebrated her candidacy, unquote. That's very funny because 20 Gabbard stories is probably the net total that the entire US media wrote throughout her run. It is widely speculated that Gabbard is a de facto Russian agent, or at the very least is very comfortable just spreading Russian propaganda and spreading pro-Putin and pro-Russian talking points. Yeah, it could be one of those things where she's not actually, she's like too fucking glowing to be an agent. And she's in fact just doing this shit voluntarily by accident. It's certainly possible. I mean, the Syrian war crime denial and meeting with Assad

Starting point is 00:17:18 stuff. Yeah, that stuff is pretty glowing. And Russia certainly has a vested interest in promoting Gabbard, right? So at the very least, even this isn't intentional on her part, Russia is very willing to jump on this. And the fact that she's now going to be the head of all of our spy agency programs, okay, cool. Sounds great. She also comes from a family of anti-gay activists and is tied to an anti-Muslim and anti-gay cult called the Science of Identity. The leader has called Muslims and Efsler's, quote-unquote, demons. In 2004, Tulsi herself accused the newspaper, the Honolulu, of being the mouthpiece for, quote-unquote, homosexual extremists. Insert joke about mouthpiece homosexual. Anyway, now Tulsi's family and campaign staff were all active members of the cult during her 2020 presidential campaign, during which she also produced a list of enemies that named prominent journalists who were against Tulsi's own history of war crime denial.

Starting point is 00:18:16 Amazing. Oh, boy. Yeah. Sorry, we got snubbed there. I mean, it was 2019, right? Yeah. I can dream of making it. We still have a chance of being put on their list of enemies.

Starting point is 00:18:27 You know what, Garrison? If we are accused of crimes, how will we fund our defense? Through these products and services that support this podcast? That's correct. Okay, we are back. It's time to talk about who might be prosecuting a list of political enemies, and that would be the possible new Attorney General, Matt Gaetz. Oh boy.

Starting point is 00:19:01 So Matt Gaetz is one of these congresspeople who has built an outsized reputation through television appearances and TV news soundbites. He's always quick to jump to the defense of Trump and advocate for extreme positions within the party. His behavior displays a desperate need for attention and willingness to sacrifice his own effectiveness as a congressman for simply going viral. This performative nature is made a little bit more uncanny by the bizarre fact that Gates grew up in the house from the truman show which his family still owns that's in you i did not know that i did not know that but that is what yeah it makes so much sense though look at all of his like gambits and bits in congress and if you frame that within someone who was raised in the truman show house it makes perfect sense wow yeah

Starting point is 00:19:45 he is not necessarily a popular pick among kind of again like institutionalists in the republican party sure the famously liberal wall street journal ran the headline quote matt gates is a bad choice for attorney general he's a nominee for those who want the law to be used for political revenge and it won't end well unquote now hours after this announcement, Gates suddenly resigned from the House, and Speaker Johnson said that he hopes to work with Governor DeSantis to fast-track a special election to get the seat filled as early as January. to us, he issued his resignation letter effective immediately of Congress. That caught us by surprise a little bit, but I asked him what the reasoning was, and he said, well, you can't have too many absences. So under Florida state law, there's about an eight-week period to select and fill a vacant seat. People have asked me all day long, President Trump is poaching all of your talent um yes but we have an

Starting point is 00:20:45 embarrassment of riches here the republican conference is full of talented people who are extraordinary uh leaders and have great expertise and and everyone in this congress in this conference could uh serve in a leadership position in the administration it's so bizarre a little bit but there's one little curious fact about Gates' quick resignation. Well, yes. Is that this happened just days before a House ethics investigation was set to vote on the release of a report looking into the sex trafficking allegations against Matt Gates. of the DOJ's probe of Representative Matt Gaetz, testified to the House Ethics Committee that the now former Florida congressman

Starting point is 00:21:27 had sex with her when she was 17 years old. To quote ABC, quote, the woman's allegation regarding Gaetz became part of the investigation following claims by former Seminole County tax collector, Joel Greenberg, a former friend of Gaetz, who is currently serving an 11-year prison sentence after reaching a deal with investigators in May of 2021, in which he pleaded guilty to multiple

Starting point is 00:21:49 federal crimes, including sex trafficking of the woman when she was a minor and introducing her to other quote-unquote adult men who also had sex with her when she was underage. The committee also obtained a sworn written statement by Gates's ex-girlfriend, where she lists the Florida congressman as one of the attendees at a party in July 2017 where drugs were present and which was attended by the woman who Gates allegedly had sex with when she was a minor. Subwitnesses show Venmo payments that they allegedly received from Gates. Unquote. so i guess the end goal of the q anon movement is just putting a pedophile in charge of the doj serving as attorney general over the entire country also gates made a really bad joke a few years ago responding to a twitter post about how people can be like beautiful at any age oh yeah and gates responded by saying this should be florida's state motto

Starting point is 00:22:42 uh and that tweet is still up wasn't it sexy at any age it is sexy it was oh my god it's worse it's worse oh that's so bad but no gates isn't super popular even within like large parts of of the party it's reported from other congressmen that he would like walk up to them and like show them sex tapes he made with people he's like having sex with he's a fucking creep he's really icky ew bro there's arguments that like maybe he won't get past like confirmation right yeah yeah and here's here's the thing he might not have to trump is currently working with the speaker of the house as well as the new senate majority leader to possibly just close congress and push all these guys through in recess appointments. So they may not even have to get past the confirmation process.

Starting point is 00:23:31 Now, this still remains to be seen. And as Matt Johnson said in the clip before, he's a little worried that Trump just keeps picking congressmen, which is slowly eating away at the House's slim Republican majority. Johnson said that he has, quote unquote, begged and pleaded with Trump to stop coaching House representatives to protect their majority. At this point, at least five congressmen have been tapped to serve in the Trump administration with more expected. Now, Gates might have someone assisting him as deputy attorney general with a little bit more prosecution experience. That is Todd Blanche, who is Trump's personal defense lawyer,

Starting point is 00:24:09 who earlier this year oversaw multiple indictments against Trump. So Trump just picked his own lawyer to be like, yeah, you're like the second guy in charge. Go help out Gates. I know a lawyer. This will be fine. The White House Chief of Staff is Susie Wills, who's a very successful republican campaign

Starting point is 00:24:25 operator she worked on rick scott's and ronda santis's gubernatorial campaigns as well as trump's 2024 presidential campaign she's like she's kind of one of the few like legacy establishment figures that trump has tapped now deputy chief of staff is stephen miller the great replacement white nationalist and anti-immigrant extremist will be returning to the White House as assistant to the president and a deputy chief of staff for policy and homeland security advisor. So he's not just the head of homeland security, he has his paws in multiple little departments and also is like directly next to the president's ear. Now in Trump's first term, Miller was the architect of the family separation policy, the Muslim ban, and the end of DACA. Miller has advocated for

Starting point is 00:25:08 denaturalization of American citizens and has called for the use of National Guard troops from Republican-governed states to be deployed in blue states to carry out internment of migrants in military camps and deportations in states that are uncooperative with Trump's mass deportation plans. James, do you have any things to add here on Stephen Miller? This is kind of your department. Miller is scary because he's actually very effective. So often these right-wing kind of plots hinge on these bizarre legal theories, right? Which I would say far from accepted by mainstream kind of jurisprudence. Miller did very well at finding antiquated laws that could stick their landing in the courts to do the evil shit he wanted to do.

Starting point is 00:25:48 Like the Alien Enemies Act of 1790-something. Yeah, I mean, he did that with Title 42, which is a law that's designed to stop people with tuberculosis just walking across the border. And he successfully, and he planned this before the pandemic, he successfully used that to effectively allow border patrol to immediately deport people without giving them their right to claim asylum. And that was a policy that Trump did and that Biden continued till 2023, right? Like Miller is good if we look at the last term at finding ways to do these things. He's effective. Yeah, he's effective. He's scarily effective. To me, he's always been the scariest guy in Trump's orbit. Yes. But yeah, because he's competent.

Starting point is 00:26:26 By far. And he stays out of the limelight for the large part, and that allows him to not have to defend his evil shit and just get on with doing it. When I watched that six-part documentary on the behind the scenes of Trump's campaign, Stephen Miller was in almost every scene. Yes. He was always in the background, always in the background, just, just saying things to Trump. Like he is, he is a constant presence there. Yeah. It's quite frightening. Now moving on,

Starting point is 00:26:50 the guy nominated for national security advisor is named Mike Walls. He's a neocon. He's an anti-Assadist pro-Ukraine. He's advocated to take the cuffs off Ukraine to allow them to make strikes further into Russia. He was also the former counterterrorism advisor to dick cheney when when he was vp yay super pro israel too oh everyone i list here is pro israel yeah i think that's pretty much this is one of the most like openly pro war guys right right you've you've someone like this guy who's historically kind of like the anti-tolsi gabbard yeah yeah takes the opposite stance on almost every single issue he's he he's a neocon he's anti-assad he's anti-putin he's a member of the kurdish caucus in congress actually interesting which like yeah i mean yeah i hope he

Starting point is 00:27:37 balances out some some of those crazy more like a sadist sort of uh or or just trump's natural tendency to see a strong man in erdogan and be like yeah you go for it buddy yeah he was the first green beret to serve in congress and has advocated the use of military intel to combat drug cartels and co-sponsored legislation to authorize the use of military force against cartels in me. Great guy. Another kind of more standard establishment pick, still not good, but a little bit more standard, is CIA Director John Ratcliffe. Briefly served as Director of National Intelligence near the end of Trump's first term and helped to defend Trump during impeachment hearings. He is more of like a standard pick, but like everyone else on this list, he has demonstrated fierce loyalty to Trump. EPA advisor Lee Zeldin,

Starting point is 00:28:25 a former New York congressman, no environmental or conservation experience, just an ordinary anti-regulation conservative. After his announcement, Zellman wrote, quote, we will restore U.S. energy dominance, revitalize our auto industry to bring back American jobs and make the U.S. the global leader of AI, unquote, which does not point to much environmental protection. I'm going to quote from the New Republic. Zeldin voted to cut EPA funding, scrap its chemical risk assessment program, and block the agency from taking action to restrict carbon pollution. He missed the 2017 vote on whether to defund the EPA's criminal law enforcement program, but voted to prohibit funds from being used for this purpose the prior year, unquote. After going to the RNC, his emails were

Starting point is 00:29:10 the worst email thread that I got added to. His emails are so unhinged. Truly the worst thing he's ever done. Yeah, Zeldin, worst emails. So, which actually makes sense that he wants to be a global leader of ai yes that's probably what all his emails were i mean it's pretty safe to assume that basically any progress that we have made on climate very minuscule will be immediately undone yeah and we will just make negative progress in the next four years with someone like lee zelda in charge of the epa which already has very little regulatory power but it's about to have a lot less. Let's discuss border czar Tom Homan,

Starting point is 00:29:49 former ICE director. He oversaw the family separation policy in 2017 and has since said that American-born citizens should be deported with their family to avoid separating families. He's advocated treating cartels like foreign terrorist organizations that Trump will use the full might of the U.S. special operations to take out.

Starting point is 00:30:09 He also wrote the border section of Project 2025. James, do you have anything to say on our new border czar? It's kind of troubling because, again, you've got someone here who is competent, right, who has worked at high levels in government. He was an Obama appointee, right? He's worked at ICE levels in government he was an obama appointee right he's worked at ice like forever yeah yeah yeah no like when obama was setting records for deportations homer was doing it which i think tells you everything about you know the shit that we forget about obama but yeah like again troubling because homer is a real hawk on this stuff and has previously been like he was effective at doing family separation right right? And it wasn't

Starting point is 00:30:45 particularly organized as we've seen. It's difficult for people to find and reunite the families. They've been doing it ever since Trump left office, but he was effective at getting that shit done. And that worries me in terms of deportations, because ICE will need to scale up massively as we spoke about, and like that will require someone with leadership experience and he has that like that that is concerning let's talk about some more diplomatic roles for ambassador to the un trump has named elise stefanik who has no diplomatic experience but has been extremely vocally pro-israel she harshly interrogated university presidents amid campus protests against the genocide in Gaza and has consistently advocated against U.S. participation in the U.N.

Starting point is 00:31:31 and now is going to be the U.N. ambassador. To quote from the New Republic, quote, in a statement last week, Stefanik heralded Israel's decision to ban the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, or UNRWA, from operating in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza, claiming that the 74-year-old aid program, quote, instills anti-Semitic hate in Palestinians and houses weapons for terrorists, unquote. She's also called on the United States to defund the refugee program, criticizing the Biden administration for issuing $1 billion to UNRWA since 2021, unquote. Yeah, this is like a typical talking point of like right Zionists, right? That the United Nations is somehow an arm of Hamas and UNRWA, the United Nations Refugee Welfare Agency is actively funneling weapons to Hamas.

Starting point is 00:32:26 And like, it's just not true. It's an excuse for targeting aid workers in Gaza. The UN already has such little control over any degree of like enforcement for like humanitarian aid. And having this person be the US ambassador to UN will make what little power they have even like diminished. Yes. Just last October, she called for a quote, a complete reassessment of US funding of the United Nations, unquote, after calls from

Starting point is 00:32:52 the Palestinian Authority to expel Israel from the UN for war crimes and human rights abuses. Now the ambassador to Israel is set to be Mike Huckabee, the former governor of Arkansas and evangelical Christian Zionist. Similarly, he has no diplomatic experience. I'm going to quote from the Atlantic, quote, he has led religious pilgrimages to Israel and visited the country dozens of times over the course of several decades. He also opposes a two state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict and says that, quote, there is really no such thing as a Palestinian, unquote.

Starting point is 00:33:33 He is really bad. Mike Huckabee is really bad. Yeah, that's pretty bad. He has also advocated for Israel to permanently annex and take control of the West Bank. And he legitimately believes in a religious political ideology to return all Jewish people to the Holy Land of Israel to trigger the biblical apocalypse resulting in the death of all Jews. My feeling personally, and I'm speaking only as a person, I think Israel would only be acting on the property it already owns. I think Israel has a title deed to Judea and Samaria. There are certain words I refuse to use. There is no such thing as a West Bank.

Starting point is 00:34:04 It's Judea and Samaria. There's no such thing as a West Bank. It's Judea and Samaria. There's no such thing as a settlement. They're communities, they're neighborhoods, they're cities. There's no such thing as an occupation. This is why he believes this. This isn't like out of care in his heart for Jewish people. It's that he wants to trigger the apocalypse. And to do this, he needs to both like eliminate all Palestinians,

Starting point is 00:34:21 give total control of the land to Israel, make all Jewish people live there so that Jesus can come again and do the wars and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All that kind of stuff. It's nasty. The last diplomatic pick here is Middle East envoy Steve Witkoff,

Starting point is 00:34:36 who's a Trump campaign fundraiser and a real estate developer. He has no diplomatic or foreign policy experience, pro-Israel. He'll basically just be assisting in all of the bad things that everyone else i've already named is going to be doing wait sorry my brain just broke so so the the middle east envoy is just like a real estate investor guy yep yep that seems i mean you know yeah is it is it much better than jared is going to do peace in the Middle East like last time?

Starting point is 00:35:07 Yes, you can look at this similarly to like Jared Kushner's proposals to like develop what once was Gaza and just like viewing wars in the Middle East as a real estate development opportunity. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can see a guy like this kind of in line with that side of like the Trump campaign. Jared's got gotta handle it and we're gonna handle these ad breaks all right we are back it's time to discuss the the elephant in the room oh god i've forgotten about this i I genuinely blocked that out of my mind. Are we doging?

Starting point is 00:35:47 We are going full doge. So I'm just going to read part of the statement from Donald Trump announcing this new government agency, Doge. More on that later. Quote, I am pleased to announce

Starting point is 00:36:01 that the great Elon Musk, working in conjunction with American patriot Vivek Ramaswamy, will lead the Department of Government Efficiency, DOGE. Together, these two wonderful Americans will pave the way for my administration to dismantle government bureaucracy, slash excess regulation, cut wasteful expenditures, and restructure federal agencies. It will become, potentially, the Manhattan Project of our time. Republican politicians have dreamed about the objectives of DOGE for a long time. To drive this kind of drastic change, the Department of Government Efficiency will provide advice and guidance from outside of government,

Starting point is 00:36:46 provide advice and guidance from outside of government and will partner with the White House and Office of Management and Budget to drive large-scale structural reform and create an entrepreneurial approach to government never seen before. Their work will conclude no later than July 4th, 2026. A smaller government with more efficiency and less bureaucracy will be the perfect gift to America on the 250th anniversary of the declaration of independence unquote jesus christ man so this is this is the new quote-unquote government agency which is not real right this is not a real government agency trump just can't create one out of thin air and in this statement it does clarify that they will be providing advice and guidance from outside of government uh that is pretty funny this is a children's table like they have the plastic cutlery it's the children's table yes

Starting point is 00:37:30 he's he's sending musk and vivek off to the side to have their little fun they'll make like a blog post that talks about who to cut you know what programs to cut vivek specifically talked about like ending health care for veterans which i'm sure will go over very well. And they'll submit that to Trump and then the people in charge of the Office of Management and Budget will probably just throw it in the trash. But we will see. I mean, I don't want to understate Musk's general influence

Starting point is 00:37:55 in Trump's operations, because Musk right now does have a great deal of influence. I think this Doge thing isn't something to be too worried about though. As a fun side note, to kind of demonstrate the nonsensical nature of this, I'm going to talk about something that Vivek has proposed. He has said that a way to cut down a government bureaucracy would be to make a list of all of the non-elected government employees and fire the ones that have a social security number

Starting point is 00:38:25 that starts or ends with an odd number. This way you can automatically cut 75% of the workforce without having to worry about racial, gender, or political discrimination. The VEC says, quote, not a thing will have changed for the ordinary American, unquote. I don't think that's going to work that way. This is proposing cutting like 2 million people. Talking to a friend of the pod, Lex Friedman, he framed this as a thought experiment, not necessarily a policy proposal,

Starting point is 00:38:56 and said that a more complicated form of this idea could select to save people with, quote, the greatest commitment and knowledge of the constitution unquote this is goofy like this is fake like this isn't this isn't real he's not going to cut 75 of of the workforce you should be more concerned about schedule f a policy that trump will reinstate that gives him power to remove government employees at will to select for people that align with him more ideologically like that's the real thing to be concerned about in terms of, like, government staffing. I'm not much concerned about Vivek here.

Starting point is 00:39:28 Though the Washington Post did report that some Trump advisors have asked Congress for $35 to $50 million to fund the Doge Commission. The alternative is to raise money from the private sector, which seems more likely. It's also just very funny to have an efficiency department ran by two people, especially if you're going to ask

Starting point is 00:39:49 to spend 50 million dollars. Because, yeah, I'm sure the best way to improve government efficiency is to give two billionaires 50 million dollars. It's to have two people running a department. That's great.

Starting point is 00:40:00 That's what we need, two managers. Yeah, it's also like a fake department that'll just produce a write-up that talks about cutting social security. And then everyone will throw it in the bin. That's all it's going to be. Musk has also gone to Twitter to try to get people to send in job applications to work for free. To sort through these people that should be cut from federal government.

Starting point is 00:40:21 He just wants people to do work for free. So now you have people sending in job applications to Twitter twitter i'm sure that'll end great for those people part of this just feels kind of like a scheme to like coerce trump into allowing the formation of a fake government agency to pump the value of dogecoin like yes dogecoin did like boost in value after this announcement and like this is very suspicious and like should be maybe illegal because this could just be like a cryptocurrency scheme, which is very, very likely.

Starting point is 00:40:49 Now, despite the kind of goofy nature of Doge and like the idea that this is basically just Musk and Vivek sitting at the kids table to keep them happy while the adults take care of real business, I don't want to brush over the influence that Musk currently has on the Trump admin. Basically, since election night

Starting point is 00:41:06 musk has essentially been living with trump at mar-a-lago just like the first buddy yes he is he's he started to call himself first buddy which makes me deeply uncomfortable the richest man on earth yeah first friend with benefits absolutely pathetic musk is reported to be giving input on staffing decisions and joining phone calls with foreign leaders. I'm going to play a clip from CNN here. Multiple sources tell me tonight that Musk has been seen at Mar-a-Lago nearly every single day since Donald Trump won, dining with him on the patio at times. Today, they were seen on the golf course together. Musk has been in the room when world leaders have called Trump.

Starting point is 00:41:44 And tonight, we've learned he's also weighing in on staffing decisions, making clear his preference for certain roles even. Publicly tonight, Elon Musk is backing Florida Senator Rick Scott as the next leader of the Republican conference to replace Mitch McConnell. While Musk himself is still not expected to take any kind of formal position inside Trump's administration, given how complicated it would be with his companies. What's becoming clearer tonight is that he doesn't really need to, with one source telling me Elon Musk is having just as much influence from the outside. NBC has reported that a source close to the transition team has told them that Musk is, quote, behaving as if he is co-president and making sure that everyone knows it and he's sure taking lots of credit for the president's victory bragging about america pack and x to anyone who will listen

Starting point is 00:42:32 he's trying to make president trump feel indebted to him and the president is indebted to no one unquote which is a very very fun statement from a a Trump guy. It's also not true. Doesn't Trump owe loads of people money? Like empirically, we know this. Yes. And currently through lawsuits, Trump does owe people a lot of money, but not that that will matter at all anymore.

Starting point is 00:42:56 In a meeting with House Republicans last Wednesday, Trump reportedly joked, quote, Elon won't go home. I can't get rid of him, at least until I don't like him, unquote, which kind of underscores the running bet pool that we have here at Cool Zone Media on when the Trump-Musk falling out will happen. And we will keep up on this story very closely, because I really can't imagine that Musk will stay here for too long. I'm sure he'll stay in some proximity, especially with all the government contracts that SpaceX has. But Trump being this close to Musk surely will result in some kind of fallout. And maybe that's Hopium. Maybe that's me just fully hopped

Starting point is 00:43:35 up on Hopium. But I really see ableism working to our advantage here, with Trump eventually just getting sick of this guy. And I think part of what Elon's doing here as well, and other people have postulated this, including Robert, is like, Elon can't run for president legally, right? And now, again, laws might just completely go out the window here. But because Elon's not a natural born citizen, like, Elon can't run for president and Elon does want power. So basically, Elon's trying to become as close as he can to President Trump to be, like this source said, co-president, right? That's kind of his end goal here. He wants to be the president and he can't, so this is as close as he can get. That is most of the main picks so far. Lastly, I'll mention like three people who worked on the Trump campaign who will now be serving as advisors, including Dan Scavino,

Starting point is 00:44:23 James Blair, and Taylor Butowich. All these guys appeared pretty frequently in the behind-the-scenes documentary about Trump's 2024 campaign, and all three of these guys primarily focused on weaponizing anti-immigrant claims to get Trump elected. That was kind of their main focus, especially James Blair. But lastly, lastly, I do have one more person to mention. The co-chair of Trump's transition team, the former CEO of WWE, Linda McMahon. She is working as the co-chair for the transition team. She is the wife of Vince McMahon. Now, she also served in Trump's first term as head of the Small Business Administration from 2017 to 2019 after two failed Senate runs in Connecticut. Now, besides co-leading the president's transition team, McMahon's also the frontrunner to lead the Department of Commerce.

Starting point is 00:45:17 Now, to kind of tie this back to Matt Gaetz, she, along with her husband husband are also currently being sued for sex trafficking underage boys in the wwe the suit alleges that wwe leadership knowingly allowed an announcer named mel phillips to groom and molest the five plaintiffs who were hired as ring boys from the ages of 12 to 13 ring boys basically like people who like help out on the side for you know i see they're kind of like performative roles yeah so that's pretty fucked up and the fact that this whole q anon movement has now resulted in uh two people being charged for sex trafficking or at least investigated for sex trafficking uh being this close to the trump orbit i'm i'm sure i'm sure we can just trust the plan and things and things will all things will all turn out fine but yeah that's a little it's a little uh linda mcmahon a fun fact there so that is all i have to say at this point about

Starting point is 00:46:11 the trump cabinet picks there's going to be more i know rfk is going to be its own nightmare that we will get to yeah i guess any closing thoughts uh sophie or james on this this who's who of the worst people in the country who's gonna come next and that's basically it and and not even that after this first round and then like obviously he's gonna fucking fire some people who's he gonna who's he gonna replace them with it will be like instagrammers by the end of four years i'm sure he's really just going through all the people who have like pledged complete loyalty to him, including people who have previously been critical, but have turned around and gotten fully on the Trump train.

Starting point is 00:46:51 And the thing that links up all of these names is that Trump believes that they're not going to turn on him. Because that was the thing that really threw a wrench in his first administration. And the reason why he's appointing all these people who are just chronically unqualified, it's because they need Trump, right? If Matt Gaetz doesn't become AG, then he's appointing all these people who are just chronically unqualified it's because they they need trump right like if matt gates doesn't become ag then he's also like out of a job now because he resigned from congress and he'll also probably face more punishment for his alleged sex trafficking yeah but if he's in charge of the entire justice department he's not going to get anything right like a huge part of trump like trying to become

Starting point is 00:47:21 president again is to get out of all of the criminal complaints and indictments that he's been facing the past year. And now none of those matter. I'll point you to a Legal Eagle video for why none of the convictions will matter. None of the ongoing cases will matter. All of those trials are now completely meaningless. He has gotten away with everything. Looking over this whole list, you see a lot of neocons in foreign policy positions and like mega celebrity loyalists in domestic positions, which makes a lot of sense for Trump trying to both like maintain his own power as well as showing off his kind of hidden neocon tendencies. cabinet points towards centralizing power with just him and the white house right these people are not qualified so now trump basically will puppeteer every department and trump's advisors including like stephen miller so this is all about centralizing power and demanding fierce loyalty that's what all these appointments point towards this is a good ending what a happy show yeah that

Starting point is 00:48:21 that is a great ending you know not all these will have happy endings because we're currently facing a pretty rough situation. But we will have some episodes later on in this week that do point more towards what you can do to protect yourself in the coming days, including Molly's episode tomorrow. So stay tuned for that. But this is just a quick rundown on why I don't like every single person

Starting point is 00:48:41 appointed to these positions. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take

Starting point is 00:49:47 the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko.

Starting point is 00:50:16 It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting

Starting point is 00:50:30 if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it.

Starting point is 00:51:05 Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them.

Starting point is 00:51:51 Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions,

Starting point is 00:52:28 sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. The 2025 iHeart Podcast Awards are coming. This is the chance to nominate your podcast for the industry's biggest award. Submit your podcast for nomination now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th. Hey,

Starting point is 00:52:51 you've been doing all that talking. It's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. I'm Michael Phillips, an historian and the author of a book about racism in Dallas called White Metropolis, an upcoming book about the eugenics movement in Texas called The Purifying Knife. I'm Stephen Monticelli, an investigative reporter who covers political extremism in Texas and beyond. In the pitch dark just before midnight on August 3rd, 2019, Patrick Crucias took off on what would soon be an infamous journey. The young man from the Dallas suburb of Allen, Texas, had become obsessed with an idea that would soon move him to murder. That idea had been inspired in part by Renaud Camus, a French racist enraged by the growing Muslim population in Europe.

Starting point is 00:53:51 In 2011, Camus had given a new name to what was actually an old idea with the publication of his book, Le Grand Replacement, which translates in English to The Great Replacement. Camus argued that global elites had conspired to replace the white, culturally superior population of Europe with darker-skinned people who were mostly Muslims from the Middle East and Africa. He claimed these elites had opened the door to mass migration, discouraged white reproduction, and encouraged the newcomers to intermarry with whites. discourage white reproduction, and encourage the newcomers to intermarry with whites.

Starting point is 00:54:30 This racial displacement, Camus asserted, had brought crime and terrorism to Europe and threatened the very survival of Western culture. Camus' idea predated World War II. The Great Replacement Theory hardly differed from key ideas promoted by eugenicists in Western Europe and the United States in the late 19th century and early 20th century. Eugenicists sought to ensure the survival of those they believed to be biologically superior. Their methods included forced sterilization and harsh immigration restrictions. Failure in this mission, they believed, would lead to white extinction. But Camus' book enraged and energized a new generation of far-right extremists, not just in his native France, but all around the world.

Starting point is 00:55:12 Camus didn't specifically identify the elite supposedly responsible for what he called a reverse colonization of the European homeland, but leaders of the international far-right quickly filled in the blanks. The great replacement, conspiracy theorists insisted, had been engineered by Jews who desired to destroy the Aryans who served as their only competitors for global control. darkened. Jewish people would supposedly complete their conquests of the world's politics and finances and would enslave a now intellectually backward global workforce. Camus' racist fever dream ricocheted around the world and left behind it a trail of blood. The dread of the Great Replacement animated a coalition of neo-Nazis and other white supremacists who swarmed Charlottesville, Virginia on the night of August 11, 2017 for a, quote, Unite the Right rally, protesting the proposed removal of a statue

Starting point is 00:56:12 honoring Confederate General Robert E. Lee. Carrying tiki torches, with many wearing matching polo shirts and khakis, the extremists paraded on the grounds of the University of Virginia campus, and khakis, the extremists paraded on the grounds of the University of Virginia campus chanting White Lives Matter and a phrase directly inspired by Camus' now six-year-old polemic. Jews will not replace us! Jews will not replace us! Jews will not replace us! The next day, one of the racist marchers murdered an anti-racism activist, Heather Heyer, when he rammed his car into a crowd of counter-protesters. to take over America, entered the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh's Squirrel Hill neighborhood and, using a long rifle and three semi-automatic pistols, sprayed the congregation with bullets over a period of 20 minutes, murdering 11 and wounding six. The synagogue had participated in a program to aid migrants fleeing violence and poverty in Central America. Charity work

Starting point is 00:57:23 that prompted the murderer, Robert Bowers, to post online that such organizations, quote, like to bring in invaders that kill our people. I can't sit by and watch my people get slaughtered. The Great Replacement Theory and its online promoters claimed a high body count in 2019. On March 15th, a 28-year-old Australian man, Brendan Tarrant, live-streamed his slaughter of 51 Muslims and the wounding of 89 others at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand.

Starting point is 00:57:54 Tarrant authored a 74-page manifesto, which he emailed to newspapers and television stations, as well as New Zealand's Prime Minister. He repeatedly referred to the Great Replacement Theory and expressed admiration for Anders Breivik, a Norwegian neo-Nazi terrorist who had killed 77 people in 2011 because of his hatred for Muslims who have settled across the European continent. In his manifesto, Tarrant praised American President Donald Trump as a, quote, symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose. Donald Trump as a, quote, symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose. The murders inspired by the Great Replacement Theory were far from over. A mass shooting claimed three lives and wounded three others at a synagogue in Poway, California on April 27, 2019, and three others died and 17 more suffered injuries during an attack at the Gilroy Garlic Festival in the same state on July

Starting point is 00:58:46 28th. This was the heartbreaking worldwide context in which Patrick Crucius of Allen, Texas, took a fatal journey just six days after the Gilroy massacre. Crucius marked his 21st birthday just the weekend before the massacre. But for the unemployed young man, it was not a happy occasion. He had grown up watching his father struggle with chemical dependency. High school classmates described him as withdrawn, and one claimed he had been bullied by Spanish-speaking students. His parents divorced, and he moved to his grandparents' home in a suburb north of Dallas called Allen, a town with a median family income of more than $121,000 and a history of white flight. Unemployed, Crucias spent a lot of hours on 8chan, an online message board favored by white

Starting point is 00:59:34 supremacists. Crucias had given himself a grim mission he believed no one else had the guts to carry out. According to the Dallas Morning News, late that Friday evening, he loaded his humble 2012 Honda Civic with his laptop computer, 1,000 rounds of hollow-point bullets, earmuffs, and a semi-automatic civilian version of an AK-47 he had ordered online from Romania. The Texas Tribune later reported that as of 2019, Romania was exporting 9,000 AK-47s to the United States every year. He also brought heavily insulated gloves because that rifle, he would later complain, quote, overheats massively after about 100 shots are fired in quick succession. The college student sought to start a war, one he thought he wouldn't survive,

Starting point is 01:00:27 but that, if others followed his example, might save the country. Ahead of his 10-hour trek westward across the vast Texas landscape, Crucias filled his gas tank and pumped himself with energy drinks. He arrived in El Paso at about 8 a.m., first parking at a Cici's Pizza, which happened to be closed. He then cruised around the border city of almost 700,000 people, where 63% of the population primarily speaks Spanish at home. He eventually stopped at the parking lot of a Walmart superstore, nicknamed the Juarez Walmart because of the large number of customers who shop there from across the Mexican border. About 3,000 people in all were estimated to be at the retail outlet when Crucius arrived. Crucius walked inside and cased

Starting point is 01:01:12 the joint for at least half an hour. He went back to his Civic and sat for a while in contemplation. Hungry, he went back into the store, bought an orange, and then then after returning to his car a second time gobbled it he then posted online a 2388 word racist screed called the inconvenient truth at about 10 38 crucius stepped out of his car weapon in hand and began massacring mexicans and mexican americans he described in his manifesto as quote the invaders this is an NBC News special report here's Jose Diaz-Balart good afternoon an update now on that deadly shooting near a busy shopping mall in El Paso Texas it happened at a Walmart near cielo Vista Mall this morning about 10 a.m local time the scene is about seven miles from downtown El Paso

Starting point is 01:02:06 10 a.m. local time. The scene is about seven miles from downtown El Paso. In about three minutes, Crucias slaughtered 23 and wounded 22 others. In spite of expressing a wish that he would die in the attack, Crucias surrendered. Police quickly connected Crucias to his internet diatribe, which he opened by saying he, quote, supports the Christchurch shooter and his manifesto, referring to Brenton Tarrant. Crucius then pivoted to outrage over Mexican immigration in the United States. Jason Whiteley of the WFAA in Dallas reported on the manifesto's disturbing content. In the letter, the shooter describes himself as a white nationalist, a right-wing extremist consumed by conspiracy theories. In short, he thinks that white people are being replaced by immigrants in this country.

Starting point is 01:02:49 The letter states this attack is in response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas. They are the instigators, he wrote, not me. I'm simply defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by an invasion. By the time of the El Paso massacre, 80 men, women, and children had been murdered by extremists inspired by the Great Replacement Theory in 2019 alone. The carnage didn't end at El Paso. On May 14, 2022, a white suspect wrote a hateful rant he posted online before murdering 10 and wounding three African Americans in a Buffalo, New York supermarket. He linked declining white

Starting point is 01:03:32 birth rates to genocide. On May 6, 2023, Mauricio Martinez Garcia, a Latino white supremacist who embraced neo-Nazi ideology, drove from his Dallas apartment to an outlet mall in Cruces's hometown of Allen. Tattooed with a swastika, Garcia shot to death nine people, including a three-year-old, and wounded seven others before being killed by a police officer. Garcia seemed to be targeting Asians and Asian Americans. Throughout this mayhem, the political right has proven eager to blame everything but the wide-open gun laws in places like Texas, which made it legal for Crucius to mail order a civilian-style AK-47. There was no interrogation of the long history of racism or of repeated Republican rhetoric depicting immigrants as

Starting point is 01:04:22 dangerous, but there were other convenient excuses. In an interview on the Sunday edition of Fox & Friends shortly after the El Paso tragedy, Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick offered a menu of alternative explanations for the mass shootings, such as video games. He also suggested that public schools needed a healthy infusion of theocracy and reverence for the Stars and Stripes. Where are we as a country? I look at social media, the violence of just bullying people on social media every day. And we turn our head and we and we allow it. I look at on a Sunday morning when most of your viewers right now, half of the country are getting ready to go to church. And yet tomorrow we won't let our kids even pray in our schools. We have to look at ourselves as a nation.

Starting point is 01:05:11 It's many factors that go into these shootings, many factors. And it's not a time to politicize. It's a time to look deep inside of who we are as a country, where we no longer salute our flag or we throw water on law enforcement. And thank God we have law enforcement. In recent years, Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick has described immigration at the southern border as an invasion that is part of a Democratic plan to, quote, take over our country without firing a shot. In response to this alleged plan, Patrick has said that Texas has a right to defend itself from the threat of

Starting point is 01:05:45 criminal invaders in a Fox News interview in 2024. For all those people who should come here legally processed and vetted in that group are hundreds of thousands, thousands and thousands of criminals, murderers, molesters, gang members, drug dealers, carjackers, kidnappers, you name it. They're part of this group and terrorists. Patrick Cruz's panic about white genocide and the violent rise of black and brown people against Western civilization had deep roots in American culture. The Texas history of segregation, white flight, post-September 11th Islamophobia, and the backlash to globalization poisoned Crucius' particular worldview. But perhaps the biggest factor in Crucius' murderous rampage was that he was taught to hate and fear immigrants by the grown-ups around him in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. But before we get into that, a quick ad break.

Starting point is 01:06:57 The fear of white extinction at the hands of so-called savages dates back to Puritan New England in the 1600s. Even as they lethally infected tens of thousands of native peoples with bubonic plague, malaria, measles, smallpox, and typhus, English colonizers slew thousands more in wars of conquest that did not spare the very old, infants, the disabled, or the unarmed. Puritans didn't just kill Native Americans. They often tortured them first and desecrated their bodies with rituals of humiliation, such as scalping. With each act of genocide, however, the Puritans projected those war crimes on their victims.

Starting point is 01:07:31 One Puritan leader, William Bradford, the governor of the Plymouth colony, warned that whites were in, quote, continual danger of the savage people. A white habit of mind formed that relieved any guilt the inhabitants of colonial America might feel about their bloodthirsty conquests. The invaders became the defenders of the homeland, the out-armed became the menace, and the vanquished became the aggressors. In effect, genocide became an act of self-defense. In the Lone Star State, public school students are required to study Texas history. Crucius would have been fed highly distorted accounts of the Texas Revolution of 1835-1836.

Starting point is 01:08:13 Although the content has improved since the Civil Rights Movement, for the most part, Texas history textbooks have depicted Mexican soldiers as ruthless killers who, without qualms, shot Anglo soldiers after the Battle of Goliad in southeast Texas and the survivors at the Alamo after they surrendered. These same students were not typically taught that white Texans massacred 650 Mexican soldiers, most of whom had already cast away their weapons after the Battle of San Jacinto, the engagement that ended the Texas Revolutionary War. Until the late 20th century, Texas students were also taught that after the Civil War, the abolition of slavery, and the enfranchisement of African Americans, dangerous chaos reigned. A sort of racist myth was promoted in textbooks and classroom lectures that reconstruction the state's

Starting point is 01:09:05 first brief failed experiment in multiracial democracy was actually a tragedy according to the legend promoted in schoolhouses reconstruction was defined not by increased literacy improved infrastructure and the expansion of black human rights but instead by political corruption, wild government overspending, high taxes, out-of-control crime, and endemic incompetence. During Reconstruction, children were taught, the United States armed African American soldiers who then harassed and assaulted harmless whites, especially women. In short, across the curriculum, white students learned that whenever black and brown people gained power politically socially or economically white people have been in mortal peril a lesson that implies the need to kill or be killed in the 1920s and 1930s white american school kids across the

Starting point is 01:09:58 country were indoctrinated into accepting eugenics in their biology classes. They learned that if they didn't produce large enough families, whites would lose a demographic race to Jews, Italians, Russians, and other immigrants pouring into the country. A best-selling American author in the 1920s, Lothrop Stoddard, warned his readers that unless trends were reversed, racially superior Nordics, as he called those from Western Northern Europe, might have to fight a war of extermination to stem a deadly tide of color

Starting point is 01:10:30 that would engulf white people worldwide. El Paso shooter Patrick Crucius grew up in Collin County, which borders Dallas County on the north. The county's wealth before the Civil War derived primarily from cotton cultivated by enslaved labor. During Reconstruction, Klansmen organized in the county seat of McKinney to terrorize African Americans into not voting. African Americans continued to toil as farm labor after Reconstruction, and the white population kept them under tight control through occasional outbursts of homicidal violence.

Starting point is 01:11:07 violence. In the summer of 1898, local whites panicked when between 30 to 40 African Americans from out of town routinely gathered during a rainy season in hopes to be on hand when the weather cleared up so they could resume working. Ominous notices began to appear around the town that said, quote, Mr. Negro, don't let the sun go down on you. On June 15th of that year, Klansmen warned black residents that they had no more than 10 days to leave the area. One family, the Sebrins, became the target of a violent mob of vigilantes known as White Cappers, who arrived at their home in the middle of the night to punish them for not vacating their home on Main Street. Anticipating the arrival of the terrorists, Jake Sebrin stood by the door of his home holding a Winchester rifle.

Starting point is 01:11:46 When his assailants realized he had a gun, they fired into the house. Jake then attempted to shoot back, but he was unable to stop the assailants from fatally shooting his pregnant wife, Laura. The three Sebrin children were found screaming and clinging to bedsheets near their mother's bloody body inside their home when it was all said and done. Whitecapper violence continued for years across the state targeting both african-americans and mexican-americans in an effort to maintain white supremacy 13 years later on august 11 1911 collin county authorities arrested a farmersville man commodore jones for allegedly flirting with a white telephone operator. A mob of 300 outraged whites seized Jones from police custody,

Starting point is 01:12:34 carried him to the city square, and hanged him from a pole in front of the telephone office. In spite of this bloody history, Collin County got rich, and by the 1970s transformed into a major urban center. This development correlated with white flight as Dallas glacially succumbed to court-ordered desegregation beginning in the 1960s, and after an uprising in response to a Dallas police officer forcing a 12-year-old Latino, Santos Rodriguez, to play a fatal game of Russian roulette in the backseat of a police squad car. White flight fueled a population explosion in Collin County. Governed by conservatives who kept property taxes low,

Starting point is 01:13:11 compared to those in the metropolitan center to the south, corporations followed this population shift. During the half-century between the 1970s and the 2020s, Dr. Pepper, Frito-Lay, JCPenney, Keurig, Pizza Hut, and the Professional Golfers Association of America, as well as Toyota, planted their corporate headquarters there. However, even if whites moved to Collin County in the 1970s to avoid school integration and feared urban unrest, the new corporations brought with them diverse workforces that include Muslims, Hindus, and people of color from all around the world. that include Muslims, Hindus, and people of color from all around the world.

Starting point is 01:13:51 In 2000, non-Hispanic whites made up slightly more than 81% of the Collin County population. In 2020, that number was slightly less than 51%. Asian Americans and Asian immigrants made up almost 7% of the population, while Mexican Americans and immigrants from south of the Rio Grande represented more than 10%. All the ingredients needed were present for a vicious racial backlash. By 2013, the right wing in the entire Dallas-Fort Worth area was in full panic mode about immigration. In 2019, Texas was believed to have the largest Muslim population of any state, Texas was believed to have the largest Muslim population of any state, numbering about 422,000, still less than 2% of the total state population, but one of the fastest growing religious demographics in the area.

Starting point is 01:14:40 Two-thirds of that population lives in the Houston and Dallas-Fort Worth metropolitan areas. Muslim worshipers pray at as many as 55 mosques in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, and the Muslim population in north-central Texas is believed to have tripled since 2010. In 2013, Harry LaRosiliere won election as mayor in the Collin County city of Plano. Conservatives mocked him at the time as the, quote, mayor from Haiti in reference to his birthplace. When affordable multifamily housing was proposed for the suburb of Plano, fear quickly spread that black and brown low-income workers would fill those residences. Signs appeared that said, quote, don't Dallas my Plano, referring to the largely black and brown population in the metropolitan center. Republican

Starting point is 01:15:22 politicians across the Dallas-Fort Worth area began to warn that some of the newcomers plotted to impose, quote, Sharia or Muslim law. The panic stemmed from the practice of many American mosques offering non-binding mediation services, employing principals from the Quran to couples in troubled marriages to resolve bitter business disputes between Muslims and so on. Such arbitration is not legally binding, and Muslim practices can't be imposed on non-Muslims because of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, which forbids the government from establishing any sort of religion. Nevertheless, one Plano State Representative, Jeff Leach, in 2015 introduced an anti-sharia law in the Texas legislature. His bill failed, but

Starting point is 01:16:06 Governor Abbott later signed a similar law in 2017. Stay with us through this ad break to learn more. Dread about Muslims and Sharia law dominated politics in Irving, a suburb with a population of about a quarter million people, 12 miles northwest of Dallas, for much of 2015. In February, then-Mayor Beth Van Dyne, who later became a Trump appointee, characterized a Muslim mediation panel reportedly located at the Islamic Center of Irving as an Islamic court. She introduced a resolution to the Irving City Council supporting Leach's proposed legislation. It passed 5-4 as reported by a CBS affiliate in Dallas. Irving Mayor Beth Van Dyne has accused local Muslim leaders in the past of creating their own laws called Sharia law and adjudicating that doctrine, bypassing the state and federal court system.

Starting point is 01:17:13 Catholic and Jewish faiths also have similar tribunals that are presided over by faith leaders who act as arbitrators. But the local imam here in Irving says Islam is being targeted, yet not breaking any law. They believe that we are trying to supersede the federal or state laws, and that's not the case. We work within the boundaries of federal and state law. Anti-Muslim tensions spread across the Dallas-Fort Worth area, ending in tragic violence. Anti-Muslim extremists held a deliberately provocative, quote, draw-the-profit art contest in Garland, Texas, a city of about 235,000 just

Starting point is 01:17:52 north of Dallas, knowing that the images of Muhammad are prohibited by Islam and were likely to inflame the broader Muslim community. Two heavily armed Muslim men took the bait that day, driving from out of state and arriving at the scene of the contest on May 3rd. They then shot a Garland police car before being killed with return fire. Little more than four months after the Garland shootings, Irving police arrested Ahmed Mohammed, a Muslim of Sudanese background on September 14, 2015, after the 14-year-old had brought a digital clock built as a personal science project to MacArthur High School. Proud of his creation, Muhammad showed the clock to one of his teachers, who subjected the boy to racial profiling. Fearing the clock might be a bomb, the teacher seized the device and sent Muhammad to the principal who then called Irving police.

Starting point is 01:18:47 Officers interrogated the boy for 90 minutes while his parents were denied access to their son. Meanwhile, a militia, inspired by Irving Mayor Van Dyne's alarmist warnings about Sharia law, showed up at two mosques in the D Dallas suburbs wearing camouflage and masks and brandishing 12-gauge shotguns as they stalked worshippers going to prayer. Islamophobia in the Dallas-Fort Worth area even extended to deceased Muslims. The Islamic Association of Collin County had hoped to establish a 35-acre burial plot in Farmersville, a town of about 4,000 people. When the Farmersville Planning and Zoning Commission approved the plan in May 2015,

Starting point is 01:19:26 without a dissenting vote, furious opposition erupted, according to a CNN report. Farmersville is about 25 miles away from Garland, Texas, where in May, police killed two Muslim gunmen who tried to carry out a deadly attack at a Draw the Prophet Muhammad event. One resident in Farm farmersville has even suggested using pigs to scare away the muslim group take and dump pigs blood and pig heads on the boat they won't buy the land if i had my way i would outlaw it islam in america farmersville resident jack hawkins declared a planning and and Zoning Commission meeting, quote, I would tear down every mosque that was in this country.

Starting point is 01:20:08 That's how I feel about it. A local Baptist minister suggested that the cemetery would lead to the establishment of a madrasa, a Muslim religious school that could become a training ground for extremists. He was interviewed by CNN. I believe I'm a watchman on the wall, Ezekiel 33. See the incoming danger. David Meeks is the pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church, which ironically sits next to a cemetery. He says the cemetery could bring radical Islam to Farmersville. I see the expansion of Islam that's going on all over the world. Now it's come to my hometown. And you see

Starting point is 01:20:43 that danger in a cemetery? Anytime you see the Islamic folks coming into a neighborhood, I think, in my opinion, I think you can say we could be less safe in the future than we are right now. 100 opponents of the cemetery crowded into a July 14, 2016, city council meeting in Farmersville, with some residents expressing the fear that muslim corpses would contaminate the local water supply members of the local muslim community and of the farmersville city council suffered threats of violence facing a federal lawsuit the city of

Starting point is 01:21:17 farmersville finally relented and on september 20th 2018 allowed the islamic association to move ahead with purchasing the land needed for their graveyard. This is the poison air Patrick Crucius grew up breathing. He didn't kill because of computer games, because they didn't pray at schools he attended, because of protests against police violence, or the collapse of respect for authority. Crucius wrote that America is rotting, quote, from the inside out because of immigration and that unless whites took up arms against dark-skinned newcomers, whites could

Starting point is 01:21:51 become extinct. In his manifesto, Crucius insisted he embraced the great replacement theory before Donald Trump became president. One can only wonder how many other self-appointed racial warriors might be inspired to violence by the 2024 presidential campaign that centered mostly on the purported dangers of what Trump repeatedly called migrant crime, including the eating of neighbors, cats and dogs, and the spread of deadly diseases. diseases. Trump has even repeated the warnings of early 20th century eugenicists about the biological damage he claims immigrants are bringing bad genes to the United States, he says. Trump's incendiary anti-immigrant rhetoric has been compiled by the news site Politico. Americans have watched their communities destroyed by this sudden, suffocating inundation of illegal aliens. I said, if you let them in, it's going to be hell. They are vicious, violent criminals. These are stone cold killers. They'll walk into your kitchen, they'll cut your throat. These are people at the highest level of killing. They'd cut your throat

Starting point is 01:23:04 and they won't even think about it the next morning. These people are roaming our country. They could go into a restaurant, they could do whatever they want, and they will kill you because they are wired that way. These people are animals now. They'll say, oh, that's a terrible thing for him to say. No, no, these people are animals.

Starting point is 01:23:21 It's in their genes. And we got a lot of bad genes in our country right now. That tread of white genocide has been nurtured across centuries of American history and has become one of this country's major exports. And with politicians like Donald Trump stoking fear about the alleged, quote, enemy within and promoting mass deportations and the idea of, quote, re-migration, which is a notion with a deeply fascist history, we are almost certain to see the great replacement panic continue to boil under the surface of a society with constantly shifting demographics. Ongoing economic insecurity will feed into this, and the passive acceptance of gun violence as the price for American freedom will certainly feed into future racist violence.

Starting point is 01:24:13 This is Stephen Monacelli. And this is Michael Phillips. Thanks for listening. hey guys i'm kate max you might know me from my popular online series the running interview show where i run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love

Starting point is 01:25:11 hearing real inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take

Starting point is 01:25:51 real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment.

Starting point is 01:26:16 I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature.

Starting point is 01:26:49 I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

Starting point is 01:27:46 Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds

Starting point is 01:27:57 and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions sponsored by Gilead now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. We're talking real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters. This is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators,

Starting point is 01:28:33 sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Starting point is 01:29:05 Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast where it has happened here. I'm your host, Mia Wong. With me is Gare. Hello. Gare, how are you doing this accursed day? Oh, I'm feeling very healthy. I'm up on my vaccines. I'm doing pretty good. Just had a nice bowl of cereal. Hell yeah. It's great.

Starting point is 01:29:24 You're doing better than the country is about to be doing because this one this one's bad folks um so a couple of days ago we promised that rfk jr was getting his own episode and he's getting 85 90 percent of his own episode there's one other guy we're going to talk about. But unfortunately, former presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy, I don't know what the F stands for, Fitzgerald, I'm assuming.

Starting point is 01:29:54 Fitzgerald. Robert Fitzgerald Kennedy Jr. has been nominated by Donald Trump to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. I first off need to note that RFK Jr. has been credibly accused of sexual assault, and when asked for comment by the Washington Post, he said, and I quote, I said in my announcement speech that I have so many skeletons in my closet that if they could all vote, I could run for king of the world.

Starting point is 01:30:21 Now, legally, I cannot make an how how how you want to piece together those sets of facts but he was accused of it and that's what he said when the washington post acted for comment so you know that's great between that and like all the like sexual misconduct allegations against musk and like everyone else involved in trump's orbit matt gates vince mcmahon and and his wife the whole like me too era feels kind of dead and it kind of has been for a while but really the the general voting public does not care at all yeah it does not seem to it's very bleak that's not even remotely the bleakest part about this appointment though so oh no he's he's bad for so many reasons holy shit so i i think if you are like most people listening to

Starting point is 01:31:13 this i don't think people tend to have an understanding of how many fucking departments there are like under under the department of health Human Services, just how many different organizations there are. I originally, I had listed them all out and then I was like, I can't do this. It's too long to read in the podcast. So here are the important ones for our purpose. Not even all the important ones, but here are some of the important ones.

Starting point is 01:31:39 So under the Department of Health and Human Services is the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the Food and Drug Administration, the National Institutes of Health, So, we've just put probably the U.S.'s most famous anti-vaxxer in charge of all of these organizations. But I say we've just put he still has to get confirmed and there is some chance that he doesn't make it i don't know we it would be much better for everyone on earth if he fucking doesn't get appointed but it's still very up in the air yeah if any of these guys are going to get pushed in through recess appointments or whether the senate will just completely cave to trump who knows yeah i mean i you know and we'll get to part of this later there is real political

Starting point is 01:32:30 opposition to trump in parts of the republican party base especially the senate yeah he is about to fuck with the money and sometimes you can do that and it's fine and sometimes you can't and we simply do not know yet and so i think before we get into how again an anti-vaxxer leading the u.s is like health services is going to just obliterate us all i think it's actually worth taking a look at what this means politically in terms of trump's base in terms of sort of the power compositions of it because in in 2020 the last time he was running he had a real problem with the anti-vaxxers because you know on the one hand trump like did a bunch of anti-vax stuff on the other hand he did spend a bunch of money to develop the vaccine and this pissed off

Starting point is 01:33:17 an incredibly large number of people you have like your alex jones is yelling about how he was like tricked into making the vaccine and there's a kind of split in his base between the people who are anti-vaxxers and people who think that COVID was like designed in a lab as a bioweapon. Because those people, in theory, if you're if you're following this coherently, right, people who think that COVID was created in a lab as a bioweapon, you should also want a vaccine then because that could stop the bioweapon. Well, unless the bioweapon was invented so that people would get vaccinated and the real danger is the vaccine see me you got to be

Starting point is 01:33:50 thinking one step ahead with these people but there's another thing too which is you also have to simultaneously argue that covid is pretty mild because that's another thing that all these people believe because you have to be anti-lockdown and to be anti-lockdown you have to believe the covid is mild so what you the the chain of things you have to believe and there are like i don't know like a third of the population of the u.s believe some variants of like covid was made in a lab as a bioweapon it either escaped or was deployed it's also mild and also the vaccine is trying to kill you so this is bad and trump has kind of papered over this issue with his base by again just handing all of the fucking health departments over to rfk jr and and a sign of of what rfk jr's tenure is going to look like assuming he gets appointed is that he has been putting

Starting point is 01:34:39 together lists of people he wants to head all of these agencies and chief on that list is jay bada chira who's he wants to be the head of the national institute of health jay is a an anti-lockdown maniac whose thing was that he thought that the lockdowns were bad and that we should have just sent everyone back to work in in this was just absolute peak of the pandemic before we had vaccines and he thought that like only 40 000 people were going to die because of covid and that if you just sent everyone back everyone would get covid and this would create like quote unquote herd immunity and then the disease would be okay yeah yeah and that's nonsense right that that did not happen we can actually say for sure yes more than 40 000 people

Starting point is 01:35:22 died it wasn't just a flu yeah and also you know there were countries like i think norway tried this where they tried to like ease lockdown restrictions early and it just killed a bunch of people and you didn't get an immunity benefit because then the thing about herd immunity right so herd immunity is this concept and this is kind of this is important for the vaccination angle of this it's this concept that there are there are some people in a population who medically cannot be vaccinated. You know, there's like actual health reasons, right, for this that aren't just like anti-vax shit. But if enough of the rest of the population is vaccinated, then it doesn't matter because there's enough immunity in the entire herd that it's hard for the disease

Starting point is 01:35:55 to spread. And the way you're supposed to do this, again, is with vaccines, right? But there was a whole crowd of people who wanted to try to do this, not with vaccines, but just by giving everyone COVID. And these are the people that RFK Jr. wants to, like, put in charge of the nation's health services. Now, the political response to this from our side is also really complicated because, you know, the way that the battle's already playing out in the media is RFK Jr. versus Big Pharma. And the problem is no one likes Big Pharma unless you're being paid by them like we don't like big pharma these companies suck shit they're really bad they're like parts of the reasons why no you can afford

Starting point is 01:36:32 your health care but also the reason they're evil isn't because they make vaccines and this is a this is a complicated sort of tension to manage and if you read a lot of the media coverage of this so far npr has just fawning article over rfk junior that's like oh he's gonna like cut through the bureaucratic red tape with his controversial things and like help treat chronic disease and no he's an anti-vaxxer he's a very hardline anti-vaxxer i also want to read this absolutely insane thing that he said about covid being a i'm just going to read this i don't know how to preface this covid 19 there is an argument that is ethnically targeted covid 19 attacks certain races disproportionately covid 19 is targeted to attack caucasians and black people the people who are

Starting point is 01:37:23 most immune are oskenazi Jews and Chinese. We don't know whether it was deliberately targeted or not, but there are papers out there that show the racial and ethnic different impact. Oh, oh no. That's, that's not what those papers are trying to say. No. And I will also say this. One of the things that you can just,

Starting point is 01:37:41 you know something very bad is about to happen is when someone uses the word chinese as a noun you are about to hear the most racist shit you've ever heard in your entire life well not not to mention us can i see juice oh yeah yeah and and so you know what those actually whatever to briefly talk about those studies were actually saying is like well yeah there were certain communities that were hit worse by covid and there's certain communities that were hit less by covid and that largely has to do with things like income and how much you're forced to like go work to read the plague living conditions class poverty yeah where you live gentrification there's lots of aspects how strong your anti-vax movement is

Starting point is 01:38:18 definitely another one not to mention just like medicalized racism, which is a massive problem in the American health care industry. Oh, yeah. And RFK Jr. not going to make that better. No, I don't have an inkling that's going to be on the top of his priorities beyond nationalizing essentially chickenpox parties instead of vaccines. Yeah. OK, so RFK Jr. has been playing the world's most obvious shell game with the media, which the media, I don't know, a lot of press outlets are just sort of rolling over for Trump right now, and so he's been playing this game where he's been telling the press, oh, I'm not going to take vaccines away from everyone, from anyone, and it'll be fine. And, like, we know that he thinks that vaccines cause autism. Like, he just says this all the time. He has promoted books about that yeah yeah so like you know we know that he's anti-vax that he spreads he spreads

Starting point is 01:39:11 anti-vax propaganda we know that he spent a bunch of money doing this specifically also in minority communities so there's there's a lot of dangers here some of which we're going to get into more when we go into what specific agencies can sort of fuck with stuff. But one of the biggest dangers in the very short term is that he is now in control of what is effectively the U.S.'s medical science apparatus. And he can use this to spread all of the anti-vax horse shit that has been spreading through like less official channels before this i think it's worth remembering that this this whole anti-vaccine craze started with one guy getting one shitty paper published in the journal lancet and the reporting on that and the media frenzy around that was enough to turn the active vaccine movement from like 10 people into a worldwide movement that has killed

Starting point is 01:40:02 unbelievable numbers of people and the reason that's true is because if an official authority tells you like that this vaccine isn't safe people will believe it and he's going to be able to use the national institutes of health he's going to be able to use the cdc he's going to be able to use the journals that they publish he's going to be able to fill these people with his cronies it's going to take a lot of fighting but he's going to be able to use this to push anti-vaccine bullshit even with even just leaving aside his regulatory abilities just the ability to like legitimize this complete horseshit as actual science is going to do incalculable damage to this country and it's going to do incalculable damage to the world

Starting point is 01:40:40 because also a lot of the one of the things that's under uh health and human services is the is the u.s is like international medical and health care programs and sort of prevention programs that we do internationally so this is all very bad do you know what's not very bad oh all of the ads that are going to play right after i stop talking surely none of them could be slightly problematic. And we are back. Okay, so when I was first writing this in the halcyon days of last week, right,

Starting point is 01:41:23 I had a whole thing written here about how one of the other effects of this is not just going to be the attack on vaccines. It's going to be the destruction of basic virological research, right? Like our basic research on viruses and on diseases is going to be destroyed. You know, and this is because the people

Starting point is 01:41:37 that RFK Jr. is surrounding himself with are the lab leak truther people. And the lab leak truthers have convinced themselves that anyone who does any kind of research with a virus is actually like creating a giant a bioweapon that can at any moment like break containment and kill the entire population and you know so i was like okay i'm gonna i was putting together all this stuff and then he just straight up said that when he gets in charge he's going to go to the NIH and stop studying infectious diseases for eight years? First week, I'm going to call all the division heads and I'm going to call all the

Starting point is 01:42:10 bureau chiefs. And I'm going to say we're going to give drug development and infectious disease a break, a little break, a little bit of a break for about eight years. And we're going to study chronic disease. He's just saying straight up, he's going to try to stop all infectious disease research for eight years. Now, think about diseases, right? I talked to a virologist beforehand who will rename nameless for security purposes. But their response was, hold on, let me read this exactly because it's extremely funny. I would love if pathogens would decide to give it a rest for eight years. Sadly, I do not think pathogens will get the memo because they're random microorganisms.

Starting point is 01:42:55 The big issue here, right, is, okay, so we're stopping all infectious disease research. these research now you know we're already i mean we're still in like we we gave up trying to end the for the first pandemic that like that would happen on the trump administration right we were our our solution to this and this is also part of the problem of the decay of these institutions even under biden was that you know we we gave up trying to stop covid we're just we just we're just just like nascar it too much work so you're all gonna die now have fun well luckily there won't be another global pandemic anytime soon because these things really only happen once a century no but you know the consequence of this right is when the next pandemic hits we're going to have an administration that is sort of broadly anti-vax whose everyone around them is anti-vaccine and we're going to have just destroyed our capacity

Starting point is 01:43:43 to do infectious disease research well and specifically this was this was a joke about uh the bird flu uh oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah why the thing is right so it could the next one could be that fucking bird flu strain that's it could be something else too we don't know there could be other ones we'd you know like if you go into like the actual sort of causes of these, which have to do with things like factory farming and, like, increasing human, they call it human zoological contact, but it's like humans going into places where there weren't people before and there are a bunch of animals and coming in, like, increasing contact with the animals, right? Right. That's all stuff that are driven by by structural elements of the economic system and like our constant need to develop land and the way we set up our meat agriculture. And that's not stuff that like RFK Jr. gives a shit about, like actually attempting to deal with. So instead, we're going to just do whatever this infectious disease research stop is. And I think this also aligns with a lot of the stuff that all of that, you know, Trump's cabinet appointees broadly have been talking about. Right. Which is this this desire to just sort of kneecap and, you know, sort of purge the American bureaucracy.

Starting point is 01:44:54 You know, I've been I've been seeing some very, very optimistic people going like, oh, well, you can't really do a purge because like what competent people are good. Are you going to replace them with? It's like no one. That's the problem. That's the problem. That's the problem. They're either going to be replaced with no one or they're going to be replaced with, like, one of the, like, hundreds of millions of weird anti-vaccine freaks these people have found and have, like, cultivated over, like, a giant global international network, right? They have so many crank doctors.

Starting point is 01:45:20 We're just going to be, like, governed by, like, a conspiracy theory cabinet, which is kind of what it's looking like. You're just going to be governed by the Fox and Friends weekend host segment team. Oh boy. Yeah, and I will say, this is all going to be very bad. I do want to do a little bit of panic calming, which is I've seen some people freaking out about the potential of rfk jr just sort of destroying the american food system by just implementing a total ban on fertilizers and pesticides and could he do that in theory maybe but that one i don't think is really likely to

Starting point is 01:46:01 happen because if he does if he tries to do this he's immediately going to face like one of the most ferocious lobbies in in the entire history of american politics which is the american like i guess you would call them the farm lobby but really it's the american big ag like big agricultural lobby yeah it's the agricultural lobby yeah yeah and like you you're about to face like the power of fucking Bayer Monsanto they are they are a ferocious opponent if you try banning their pesticides they're going to come for you they already hate him because he's already he's like has sued them over a bunch of stuff over the years and the thing about this combination of of companies that make chemicals for stuff and also

Starting point is 01:46:41 the giant farming conglomerates who who run most of america's food production is that unlike for example the farmer lobby the farmer lobby is very powerful but its power is sort of dispersed over over a broad geographic area it's not it's not like centralized very well which which makes them sort of weaker in an attempt to like stop rfk jr the thing about the farm lobbies that they're not there are a lot of plain states where just straight up they're senators and it doesn't matter which party you elect your senator is just a cut out for like the agricultural lobby yeah and those people work together right like they have worked together they will work together they caucus together all the time in order to get agricultural subsidies and stuff and these people are unbelievably powerful they are united political

Starting point is 01:47:23 bloc in the senate and they can bring the entire U.S. government screeching to a halt. So that's not a fight I don't really think that he can win. But, I mean, there's still some kind of chance that he tries to do something like this. But on that one, and I've seen a lot of people panicking about it, I think that one will probably be okay. That said, we're giving a guy who one of his big things is that the government's been repressing raw milk. And we're giving this guy control of the FDA.

Starting point is 01:47:53 Oh, the raw milk people. Oh my God, yeah. Yeah. Well, and luckily there's been no FDA-related fiascos this year, which has led to thousands of food recalls that are incredibly challenging to keep up with. And now the joke here is that there actually has been massive FDA fuck-ups, which actually has led to thousands of food recalls, which actually are pretty

Starting point is 01:48:17 challenging to keep up with because, oh boy, our whole regulatory state was kind of gutted the past eight years and it is still recovering. And the deregulations have led to massive food-borne illness failures in the production scene. So yeah, that's been happening. I'm sure one of you has been affected by this. Yeah. And I think there are some people who tend to read the way that RFK Jr. talks about, we need to eliminate like toxins from the food supply or whatever and read that as oh he's gonna like try to do more agriculture regulation and that man's brain has been eaten by worms like that is his his brain is is a bunch of conspiracy theories mashed together like that's not going to be how this plays out

Starting point is 01:49:02 unfortunately for us yeah and i really think this is something to keep in mind is anyone who is treating this guy as like some kind of serious reformer of U.S. health policy. Do not trust anything that they say. Right. Like, keep note of what fucking media outlets are saying this right now, because with RFK Jr., a man who says one absolutely, like I said that thing earlier about suspending research for infectious diseases, right? He said that like last Friday at an anti-vaccine conference he was on on like Zoom. He says this shit literally all the time.

Starting point is 01:49:37 And if you're a sort of journalist and you're treating him as like a semi-serious guy and not this person, like you are not sort of qualified for the task of covering what's going to be happening in this administration. I mean, really the worst thing about RFK, in my opinion,

Starting point is 01:49:51 is that he has ruined the Kennedy conspiracy search results. If you Google Kennedy conspiracy, it sucks now. Now it's just RFK conspiracy theory beliefs that he has. Terrible. It's ruined one of my great hobbies, which is trying to find new JFK conspiracy theory beliefs that he has. Terrible. It's ruined one of my great hobbies,

Starting point is 01:50:05 which is trying to find new JFK conspiracies. You know what else is ruining JFK conspiracies? Probably these ads, because my God, the more time I have to spend looking at advertisements is less time I could be reading about how JFK was secretly... I could be reading about how JFK was secretly... Okay, we are back. Mia, I would love to learn more about RFK Jr. if possible, or maybe some other random guy who's also bad.

Starting point is 01:50:43 What else do you have for me here? Oh boy, we we have from here adderall oh wow one of my favorite prescription drugs that's not true actually i'm actually not on stimulants everyone thinks just because i talk fast and sound like this i probably am on stimulants this actually isn't true this is me completely sober so just imagine how worse i would be if i was on Adderall. Yeah. So, okay, let's do Adderall first and then we'll talk about antidepressants.

Starting point is 01:51:09 So, okay, if you've had to get Adderall and I'm actually not on it somewhat miraculously, I don't know, not miraculously, whatever. It's not my favorite thing not being on this. But, you know, if you've tried to attain Adderall or something like Vyvanse or one of the other sort of treatments for ADHD, you have probably noticed that there's just shortages. And there's two explanations for the shortage. If you read the stuff the Food and Drug Administration says, they're like, oh, it's because of labor shortages at drug manufacturing plants.

Starting point is 01:51:37 And that's like not really the reason. The actual thing that's going on here is that so these are technically like restricted substances right in order to produce substances like this the the dea sets like a quota of the amount of these drugs you were able to produce in a year and the dea became absolutely obsessed with like the fact that people were like getting a hold of other people's adderall and this made them absolutely lose their fucking minds and start imposing these unbelievably draconian production quotas on on these stimulants which is why there's been a fucking shortage of them for like three years now. It's worth noting, on the one hand, you know, the FDA has kind of been trying to fight the DEA on this because the FDA is looking at this and it's like, OK, so we just have a bunch of people who have ADHD who can't get their meds. is looking at this and it's like okay so we just have a bunch of people who have adhd who can't get their meds and that can just straight up destroy your life like getting getting taken off of one

Starting point is 01:52:30 of these things immediately is really really bad for you and also like not having executive function is real bad but we have the mild upside of the fact that deA isn't technically going to be under RFK Jr.'s control. Wait, is it going to be under Kristi Noem's control? Yeah, it's Justice Department. Okay, so it could maybe Gates. Well, maybe, maybe Gates, because we have since learned that Trump has conceded that Gates might not make it through a senate confirmation hearing so we will still see if these resus appointments are actually going to happen yeah so we don't know who's going to be running the department of justice but comma what we do know about rfk jr is uh this quote from futurism quote i'm going to create these wellness farms so they can go get off

Starting point is 01:53:25 illegal drugs off opiates but also illegal drugs other psychiatric drugs if they want to to get off ssris to get off benzos to get off adderall and spend as much time as they need three or four years if they need it learning to get reparented to reconnect with communities so as as a lot of people including futur Futurism, have pointed out, he is framing this as if it's voluntary, but what this is, is instead of treating people for, like, mental health issues, you send them

Starting point is 01:53:53 to a labor camp to do organic farming for the government? And that's very bad, and it's also worth noting that these programs that are supposed to be quote-unquote voluntary have this sort of nasty way of suddenly becoming involuntary the moment someone's actually in power so the the worst possible read of this like the most bleak and dystopian read of this is that this is going to be implemented as a method of solving the the indescribable human cost of evicting tens of millions of people

Starting point is 01:54:24 one of the things that we'll do is just absolutely obliterate our labor supply for agriculture right because it turns out that the people who actually know how to do agricultural work is not the white planters who fucking own the farms so this is a thing that could be used to try to replace that labor right i i don't know how much i think that specific one is going to happen. It's unclear how he could use the power of the state to do this. Right. There's not a direct path.

Starting point is 01:54:52 Yeah. This seems, this seems really, this seems really goofy, frankly. Yeah. Like I've seen some panic over it. It's like,

Starting point is 01:54:58 I, I mean, maybe that's a, like, I don't know. I think that's like a, like, I don't know. We're in like year six of the Trump of the new system, the second Trump administration. And a, like, I don't know, thing that's like a, like, I don't know, we're in, like, year six of the Trump, of the second Trump administration, and, like.

Starting point is 01:55:09 Yeah, I really don't see how they could even get anywhere close to the numbers for, like, a voluntary drug, like, rehab program that puts you into, like, agricultural farm work that's not going to replace any of the missing farm labor. No, no, it won't work, right? Even if you could do the compulsory labor thing no it won't work right it would even if you could do the compulsory labor thing there's not just simply aren't enough people right to do it and also agricultural labor is skilled work right like yeah you actually have to know what you're doing but comma i will i will mention you know as this is kind of this is an unlikely but technically possible thing to happen the thing that's more likely to happen is that this is a good time to mention that one of the organizations that's under health and human services is the substance abuse and mental health services administration and there are a lot of ways

Starting point is 01:55:57 using this administration and also just cooperating with the dea because again we have to remember this the dea is just unbelievably pissed off at the thought of like a single person getting their prescription so I don't think it will be hard for RFK Jr. to find his allies in the justice department to intensify the crackdown that's already been happening on on things like on things like Adderall and on things like antidepressants because you know there's a whole other range of conspiracy theories that we've covered this on the show right that have to do with like people who think that like oh all the all the mass shooters are on antidepressants or whatever and that kind of stuff is that kind of thinking is incredibly powerful and there's a there's a real chance that we are about to see a bunch of people who believe that shit

Starting point is 01:56:35 suddenly in control of much of the agencies that are supposed to be doing drug regulations there are other things that we can see him do he's going to have some authority over approving new vaccines which is real bad it's going to be hard for him to just like i don't like he can't just like do a vaccine ban but what he can do is he can also fuck with people's insurance covering vaccinations and he can fuck with like to what extent they're recommended by the government this is really upsetting for the potential like hiv vaccine that's oh it's like nearing its completion we're gonna get to that that hold on give me give me one second because we're getting to that no okay so before we get to the fact that our fit junior is an hiv aids denialist we need to point out one more thing he

Starting point is 01:57:21 can do which is that he can use the office of the inspector general as a weapon to, you know, I mean, is the office of the inspector general and like the regular the legal and regulatory capacities of the other agencies under health and human services. Are they supposed to be a thing that you can use to go after drug companies for like making vaccines? vaccines no will he be able to do it probably because we are about to enter a era of like lawfare and like what is it isn't considered legal that is going to make the past like eight years seem like the most functional democratic regime the world has ever seen so we're probably going to see that and we're also going to see the effects of RFK Jr.'s HIV AIDS denialism. And this shit is so I don't know if people even remember this, but there was a whole like one of the earlier kind of anti-vax conspiracy movements was about HIV not being the cause of AIDS. And it's been so long since this has been a public thing that I think most people have sort of forgotten about it. I think Dave Gruhl

Starting point is 01:58:28 is probably the most famous one of these guys, but he was in this camp of people who thought that, like, AIDS was caused by malnutrition. RFK Jr., not in that camp. RFK Jr. in an even worse camp of people who were just like, oh yeah, no, it's because gay people were doing poppers.

Starting point is 01:58:44 That's his actual thing, right? He thinks it's just... You think it was poppers? Yeah. He thinks it's because of just literally, like, quote, the gay lifestyle is why HIV happened. This kind of shit wiped out an entire generation of queer people. Our best

Starting point is 01:59:00 hope here is that he's forgotten about most of this and is on to more and new like just gets sidetracked on his other conspiracies and just gets obsessed with raw milk or whatever but yeah this could be

Starting point is 01:59:16 really really fucking bad for if he actually decides that this is one of the issues he's going to focus on right he's now in charge of a bunch of the agencies that like helps people fucking deal with this right because as you have the aids now you know getting it is on a death sentence like you can live you can live a perfectly functional life as long as you have the right medical care and there's as as gare was talking about earlier there's there is a pretty promising vaccine that could fucking stop this shit right But if this is something that he remembers.

Starting point is 01:59:45 And he focuses on. There's a real chance of him using his power to fuck with it. Because he is a kind of homophobic. That like up until really two or three years ago. Had kind of like mostly vanished. From like the mainstream. Even from sort of like the homophobes. Tended to have different homophobia now.

Starting point is 02:00:03 Than like this shit. Yeah this is like a classic 80s, 90s homophobia. Yeah, yeah. And at this point also we need to mention that, again, one of the offices that he's now in charge of is the Office for Civil Rights, the OCR, which is something we've talked about on our

Starting point is 02:00:18 episodes about trans policy. He's, I don't know, RFK Jr. is kind of one of those people where it's not clear to me if his heart's really in the anti-trans stuff. He says all of the most hideous anti-trans shit, right? But it's also a pretty recent position that he's adopted. You mean, yeah, same thing with Trump. Yeah, but now that might not matter, right?

Starting point is 02:00:35 Sure, I'm just saying these are more recent changes from them that kind of reflect a growing shift in politics for the GOP and their base. Whereas historically, Trump has felt fine a growing shift in politics for like the gop and their and their base yeah whereas like historically trump has has felt fine sexually harassing trans women yep yep uh because they're women because of misogyny you know yeah anyway but you know but our issue here is that the office of civil rights is the office that you're supposed to that's supposed to be the thing that stops discrimination in health care oh okay and in fact this is the organization that the biden

Starting point is 02:01:09 administration had just left trans people to the mercy of where if like if your health care got banned you were supposed to like submit a complaint to the ocr so like it's not like an incredibly functional agency right now right but it's about to get a lot worse there's a couple other things that i should mention before we close out here that are i mean you could do a full episode on in and of themselves but there's just so much shit here one of them is that he's also like anti-fluoride in drinking water yes yes yes now this is one where i don't know how much power he's gonna have to do this because a lot of fluoride stuff is done at the local level well luckily for our friends in Portland this won't affect them at all because there already is no fluoride in your drinking water yep so our dental health

Starting point is 02:01:52 is just fucked because of this um he's probably going to use this is going to be another bully pulpit thing where he uses his position to push anti-fluoride shit and I think the last thing I want to end on is just one of the like cruel petty things that he's probably going to be able to do is one of the like bugbears of the right is that like people on food stamps aren't eating healthy enough food and so we're probably going to see a bunch of these just really hideous restrictions and what you can buy with with snap benefits yeah well and the rest of these guys also just want snap benefits and welfare to also just like go down the toilet entirely so yeah so they're trying to make them

Starting point is 02:02:31 as unusable as possible and again it's like okay so like if you can only buy like fresh fruit with this and you live in a food desert yeah because you're poor what the fuck you you know right it's just it's just compounding classism yeah and the general trend of this is things are either going to get monumentally worse or merely sort of worse i do love those two options yeah when your best chance is you hope you're hoping the brain worms ate the part of his brain that remembered this specific conspiracy you're in real trouble oh i mean rfk jr is so emblematic of like the type of like democrat kind of wingnut hippie environmental guy who then slowly has been pivoting to like the right-wing conspiracy sphere like you see this with a lot of like you know like hippie moms from

Starting point is 02:03:18 like the 90s right who had very like you know fluoride beliefs vaccine beliefs like all this type of stuff that was kind of more associated with this like kind of like slightly conspiratorial wing nutty uh section of like the left and how much that entire sphere has been totally eaten by the right and now it's a pretty like successful and reliable voting block for them and this has only become more the case under trump's first term yeah and now we are seeing it again with these types of guys, not just on Facebook comments sections, but now actually heading up entire departments of state. Yeah. And it's also worth mentioning that part of the reason this stuff happens is because it's really profitable. The anti-vaccine lobby, and it is a lobby, has an unbelievable amount of money. You see a lot of people pivot towards it.

Starting point is 02:04:02 I'm going to close this out by yelling at, there's a media organization called Grayzone, which if you've been involved in anti-Palestine activism, you've probably seen some of their reporting. They are also pivoted into this kind of anti-vaccine stuff. And, you know, remember at the top, when I talked about Jay Bhattacharya, who's that anti-lockdown fanatic who's going to be in charge of the National Institutes of Health. He's

Starting point is 02:04:26 a guy that, like, Grayzone interviewed on their fucking website and put out a bunch of articles in support of his anti-lockdown stuff, right? And this is something that we've been seeing for the last four years, is a lot of people who are supposed to be leftists pivoting towards this anti-vax stuff. Jimmy Dore is another example

Starting point is 02:04:42 of this. Yes, yes. Literally, purely because it makes you a lot of money. And now that, now these grifters just have their guy in office and all of us are going to have to live with the consequences of it. Unless, unless we stop this jackass from being put into office,

Starting point is 02:04:58 which is not impossible. It's not without hope. This guy has a lot of enemies, both among, like, the people and also in corporate America. And also in the animal kingdom. That's true, that's true. He has many enemies. The families of the dead carcasses he draws around.

Starting point is 02:05:19 Well, and just the families of the microbials in those carcasses, which have wormed their way literally into his brain. Yeah. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more.

Starting point is 02:06:03 After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating.

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Starting point is 02:07:18 Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app,

Starting point is 02:07:46 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me in a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands,

Starting point is 02:08:18 for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Black Lit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life.

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Starting point is 02:09:24 This is the chance to nominate your podcast for the industry's biggest award. Submit your podcast for nomination now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th. Hey, you've been doing all that talking. It's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Hello and welcome back to It Could Happen Here, a show that is no longer hypothetical

Starting point is 02:09:57 now that it is happening here. I'm your occasional host, Molly Conger, and today I just want to talk to you a little bit about your online security. It's a hot topic right now for obvious reasons, and this won't be a comprehensive overview on the subject by any means. I'm sure there will be more episodes in the future covering specific angles on this and more depth. But today I just want to touch on some basics, especially for people who may be asking themselves some of these questions for the first time. This is more of a mental framework and a pep talk.

Starting point is 02:10:31 The main message here is don't freak out. I'm not saying the situation isn't serious or your concerns aren't real. It's very serious. But freaking out is not going to do you any good. serious, but freaking out is not going to do you any good. And if you're looking for complicated, high-tech solutions to the very real anxiety that you're feeling right now, this episode doesn't have it. That's not what I have for you today. And I know a lot of people have really specific concerns about apps they might be using to track their menstrual cycles or fertility. And we're not going to touch on that today because I think it's a topic that

Starting point is 02:11:05 deserves its own episode and an episode where I talk to an actual expert. So I'm hoping to get that out next month. So what are we talking about? The answer is pretty simple. Calming down and shutting up. That's right. It's only Thursday when this airs, but it is always Shut the Fuck Up Friday in our hearts. Because the main source of the risks you can do something about is your own mouth. Because here's the thing, I'm not an expert on digital security. I'm not a computer programmer or a hacker. I had to call our producer Danil one time because I went to record an episode and my little recording device said no.

Starting point is 02:11:50 And I almost cried and it turned out I accidentally slid the little tab on the data card that locks it. I don't know. But what I do know a lot about is how to exploit someone else's lack of digital security. If you're a listener to my show, Weird Little Guys, you know that I kind of have a knack for finding out everything there is to know about a guy. So what I can offer you is a sort of reverse engineered guide to stay safe

Starting point is 02:12:20 online from someone like me, but evil. I like to tell people that you should be thinking of your digital security kind of like your health. People are going to have different risk factors, different vulnerabilities, different concerns, different goals. If you're undocumented or on a student or work visa, the risks and possible consequences for you are very different. If you're queer or trans or a person of color, your risk profile looks different. If you're economically dependent on family members whose politics don't align with yours, your risk profile is different. If you have a criminal record, if you work in a field where your political activity is a significant threat to your continued

Starting point is 02:12:59 employment, if you're running for office, if you have a security clearance, if you have children or vulnerable family, these are all different vulnerabilities. And you're running for office, if you have a security clearance, if you have children or vulnerable family, these are all different vulnerabilities. And you're going to have specific concerns that are unique to you, and this isn't meant to address those specific risk scenarios. But just like people who may have different risk factors when it comes to their health, everyone can benefit from the basics. You know, no matter who you are, you have to wash your hands. And when it comes to digital security, a lot of people want to jump right to the exciting, complicated technical fixes. They want the Kim Kardashian full-body MRI equivalent of being safe online. People want to talk about buying burner phones and getting a Faraday bag

Starting point is 02:13:42 and evading high-tech surveillance, but they're not washing their hands. People love to say they're going to buy a burner phone, but if you go to Walmart and you buy a burner phone and you put your credit card into the machine that is recording a video of your face and then you take that phone home and turn it on inside your house next to your real phone, you've done nothing but waste your time and money. So we're not talking about solutions like that. What we are talking about is boring, unsexy, basic stuff that everybody can and should be doing before they jump into the deep end if you choose to go that route. Because I'm not saying you shouldn't worry about more advanced threats. I'm just saying you have to start here. So before you can figure out how to mitigate a risk, you have to nail down what that risk actually is. What is the outcome that you're hoping to avoid? There's a lot of anxiety right now about unknowable possibilities. And it's really

Starting point is 02:14:38 easy to get overwhelmed with the what ifs of a worst case scenario, and then you just end up feeling really helpless. And look, yeah, there are some potential threats here that I don't have the tools to help you address, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be taking the steps that are within your control right now. You have to fight off that feeling of helplessness. So what we're talking about here is threat modeling. I gave a little workshop a few months ago about digital security. And the first thing I asked the group was, what is the bad thing that you were worried will happen? And most people's answer to that was, they're worried about getting doxxed. Okay, that's fair. That's a valid fear. But what do you mean by that?

Starting point is 02:15:23 What specifically is the piece of information you are worried someone will discover? Is it your name, your address, where you work? Is it connecting two pieces of your online identity that you thought were separate? Doxing can mean a lot of things to different people at a different context, and it can happen in degrees, right? You know you know my full legal name. I'm, you know, doxxed to whatever extent that means anything. But this could still happen to me. Someone could still discover a piece of information about me that I wish they didn't have. And most people can't become completely anonymous. I can't help you do that. And honestly, I don't think that should be most people's goals.

Starting point is 02:16:09 Don't disappear. I'm not telling you you should disappear. This is just about figuring out what makes sense for you and what you can do to navigate the landscape that you've chosen to operate in. So what is the actual negative outcome, specifically, that is making you feel afraid? What is the concrete thing that you are thinking about when you experience that fear? And people's answers tend to be that they're worried about getting harassed. They're worried about their physical safety. They're worried about negative fallout at work or at school. People's fears tend to be

Starting point is 02:16:54 about things like getting arrested, getting sued, getting fired, getting hurt, and getting embarrassed. And so the next question is, can you identify the potential sources for the kinds of harm you're worried about? And you can sort these into a few primary categories. The state can harm you. That's the police, the government. You can get charged with a crime. Institutions can harm you. If you're a student, you can get in trouble at school. If you have some kind of professional license, people could file complaints against you. Politicians and organized political groups can harm you. You know, Marjorie Taylor Greene might tweet your TikTok video or Canary Mission might do a blog post about where you work.

Starting point is 02:17:37 And right-wing groups can harm you. You might get targeted harassment from some Nazi telegram channel. Worst case scenario, maybe you were physically threatened or attacked by an extremist group. You could get swatted. And then there's just this sort of wild card of the random strangers and internet mobs and the way they factor into and exacerbate all of the above scenarios. When it comes to harm from the state, that's beyond what we're talking about with this digital hand-washing metaphor. A lot of the prevention steps you can take today are still going to help you, they're still worth taking, but at the end of the day, if the government wants to know who runs a Twitter account,

Starting point is 02:18:17 who drove to a protest, who supported a movement, who donated money, that's beyond the basics. Most of what I have direct experience with are just these basic measures that you can take today to make it a little bit harder for the average weird little guy to get into your business. It'll stop the average online troll. It'll slow down a decent sleuth, but it's not the kind of stuff that stops a guy with a warrant. Think of protecting your online identity like being inside your house. If you have no curtains, someone walking down the street can see you even if they didn't go out of their way to look. If you're putting everything out there with no thought to digital security, somebody could dox you without even trying, just like they would be able to see

Starting point is 02:19:03 in through your windows from the street. Somebody who is a little more curious about you might walk into your yard. But if you put up a fence, maybe that person will decide, this isn't really worth my time. Somebody who loves peeping in windows and really wants to see you, he's going to hop your fence, right? But the average troll will see these barriers and they'll get bored. But again, curtains, a fence, a locked door, a guard dog, these don't stop a guy with a warrant. So we're talking about just putting up barriers that slow down and discourage the average low to mid-level weirdo. In short, delete your Facebook, set your accounts to private, use Signal, put a passcode on your phone, say less, and try to do something about the data brokers.

Starting point is 02:19:52 Let's break these down one at a time. I'm sure it's been talked about on this show before, but I tell everyone in my life, download Signal. Download Signal. It's free. Put it on your phone. It's just an encrypted messaging app. And I use it by default, pretty much exclusively in place of regular texting, just because it's easier for me to have everything in one place. It doesn't collect or store your metadata. It doesn't back up to the cloud. And you can set all of your conversations to automatically disappear at whatever time interval you choose. You don't need text messages from a year ago. You don't. Those can never help you. They can only hurt you. Just let them go.

Starting point is 02:20:32 And turn off the biometric unlock on your phone, whether that's a fingerprint or a face ID, turn it off, turn it off, set a passcode. If you get arrested and you have your phone on you, they can use your finger or your face to unlock it without a warrant. But if you have a passcode. If you get arrested and you have your phone on you, they can use your finger or your face to unlock it without a warrant. But if you have a passcode, you're a little bit safer. So set a passcode that's at least six digits long, longer if you can bear it, I know. But when it comes to social media, you have some choices. You may look at your own threat model and say, well, I don't care if everyone can see what I've posted and that's okay right we all have different goals and vulnerabilities and if you're

Starting point is 02:21:11 a very public organizer then yeah you need public social media but if you've been using Facebook for 20 years you probably weren't always very careful about what was on there. And there are privacy settings now where you can retroactively set all of your old posts to a new privacy settings. You should do that. Start there if you haven't done that. But that still leaves a lot of digital debris. If you've changed your display name to something more private in recent years, something that isn't your current legal name, old posts that other people made about you still have your old name in them. So if they tagged you 10 years ago, that old name is still a link to your current profile. And you can't control the content that your friends and

Starting point is 02:21:59 family posted years ago. And on the flip side, if in the end you decide you don't care what's on your Facebook about you, when you're doing your threat modeling, consider the people close to you. Because when I'm working at this from the other side, a lot of times I'll find that, you know, the guy that I'm looking for has done a pretty good job cleaning up his own digital presence. But his wife, his mom, his sister, someone in his life has not. So if there's someone in your life who maybe is at greater risk than you are, don't be their weak spot. And if you're in a position to do so, talk to the people in your life about this. Have these conversations about what are our risks? What are our goals? Let's do a digital hygiene check together because you can build an impenetrable digital fortress

Starting point is 02:22:52 around yourself. But if your aunt Kathy is live streaming your baby shower, that didn't do you much good. And now that more people are talking about these kinds of concerns, you can try broaching the subject with people in your life that may not have been receptive to it a year ago. Show your mom how to set her Facebook to private. Take the time to explain to your less political siblings why they should think about the ways in which their social media use might expose someone they care about.

Starting point is 02:23:21 Don't just scold them or say, it's reckless that you're doing this. Talk about why. So when it comes to social media, I'm saying delete your Facebook as a sort of shorthand for the general cleanup of the stuff that you've left online for the last 20 years. Cleaning up your online presence is the number one thing you can do right now to thwart the bizarro universe version of me who is trying to collect every piece of information about you. who is trying to collect every piece of information about you. Because even if you're careful today, even if you're so smart about it now, and you're not putting anything online that puts you at risk, you weren't always that careful. We're all guilty of it. People who've been doing this for a long time, people who know better, we're all guilty of being a little messy online. It's okay. There's

Starting point is 02:24:22 no shame that you didn't know before. Don't feel silly. Don't feel guilty. Just start cleaning it up today. And so to figure out what exactly you might've been leaving out in the open, one thing you can try is doxing yourself or do it with a friend, right? Try doxing each other. So start with a completely clean cache, delete your cookies, whatever, open an incognito browser, but with a blank slate, and just Google yourself. Google your name, your address, your phone number, Google the usernames that you currently use on various sites. But Google the username you used in high school. Google your old AIM handle.

Starting point is 02:25:03 Google the email address you made when you were 12. What comes up? And is that information you want everybody to have? Probably not. Start by deleting accounts you don't use anymore. Just wipe those bad boys right out. You don't need those. A lot of people have no idea that the ghost of their old MySpace page still exists online. I've actually used that one fairly recently to confirm the details about a person's close associates and family members. They hadn't logged into MySpace since 2010, but your top eight lives forever. So delete or set to privates any account that you don't use, don't need, or just don't need to be public facing. Log into every social media site, every forum, every online store where you've ever created an account and just look at what's visible.

Starting point is 02:25:56 Your online reviews may contain information about where you live. Your profile on some forum you posted on in 2012 probably has your birthday on it. Your profile on some forum you posted on in 2012 probably has your birthday on it. And if you're an active Pinterest user, your Pinterest boards are probably revealing a lot more information about you than you realize. Information about your family, your interests, your plans for the future. People will make Pinterest boards with names like Jaden's second birthday. And now I know that you have a son named Jaden whose second birthday party you were planning last July. That's a real example. So set these things to private, change your profile picture to something that isn't your face. Look at your username. Did you have to put some numbers at the

Starting point is 02:26:37 end of that because the one you wanted was taken? Are those numbers your birthday? And vary your usernames a little bit. Unless you have some kind of professional reason for using a personal brand across every platform, don't use the same username everywhere. Keep separate areas of your life separate. Don't make it any easier than it needs to be to connect these different pieces of your digital footprint into one picture of who you are. Because again, I'm not talking about becoming completely anonymous online. A lot of people need to exist online as the person that they are. You have a LinkedIn, you do public facing organizing. I'm not saying you need to disappear from online, but if you have accounts that you don't want

Starting point is 02:27:24 connected back to your true identity, if there are pieces of you have accounts that you don't want connected back to your true identity, if there are pieces of you that exist that you don't want side by side, don't connect them. So if you anonymously run a social media account for an activist group, don't use it to follow your own real account. Don't like your boyfriend's posts when you're logged into your anarchist shitposting account. If you don't want it posts when you're logged into your anarchist shit posting account. If you don't want it connected to you, don't create overlap. If you post a screenshot from one social media platform onto another, you know, a screenshot of a tweet on your Instagram, whatever, be mindful of what's in that image. Is there a thumbnail of your own profile picture in

Starting point is 02:28:02 there? Does the screenshot show that you interacted with that post? Because a filled in heart on an Instagram screenshot is something I have used as a building block for a docs. And maybe you've never posted anything identifiable on Twitter, but have you ever posted a link to your Twitter account on Reddit? Or are you in a big Discord and you shared one of your own posts with your friends in there? Like, hey, look at this banger tweet, I'm going viral. And I say both of those specifically because both of those are specific mistakes that I have seen people make that were,

Starting point is 02:28:35 for me, a crucial link between two accounts that connected the dots to figure out who they were. Use two-factor authentication. Use a password manager. Use complex passwords. Never recycle a password. Check databases like have I been pwned? See what's been leaked about you. And some of that data is out of your control now, but it's out there and you can't claw it back. But you can change all of your passwords today. You can download a password manager and change all of your passwords today. And all of your passwords today. You can download a password manager and change all of your passwords today. And all of your passwords should be something different from one another. I'm going to say it again. Change all your passwords. Stop using your dog's name as your password for

Starting point is 02:29:14 everything. It was hard, but I did it. Okay. And when you're doing this digital hygiene check, you know, you're Googling yourself, you're checking these breach databases, one of the things you're going to find is your address and your email address and your phone number and your parents' names and your parents' address. All of these pieces of what you thought were personal private information, they are bought and sold to data brokers. And these data brokers put them online on sites that people can pay to access. Be like People Finder, True People Search, White Pages, there's hundreds of them. Now, by law, all of these sites have to have a link on them somewhere where you can ask them to delete your information. Some of them make it kind of hard, and it may take weeks for them to actually honor

Starting point is 02:30:03 the request, and you may have to follow up. But theoretically, if they're operating legally, you do have the ability to manually clean up how much of your personal information comes up from these data brokers. But I'll be honest with you, it's whack-a-mole. You could spend one afternoon a week for the rest of your life making opt-out requests and following up on them and checking back to make sure it's really gone. You can do that. I used to do that. But there are also services that will do it for you for a fee.

Starting point is 02:30:36 I think there may be an episode in the pipeline examining that particular ecosystem in some more detail, so I won't go into the pros and cons of different services that exist. But if that's something you're interested in paying for, do some research about it before you put your money down. But at the end of the day, I just want you to remember, you can't solve this whole problem. That might sound like a defeatist message, but I think it's healthy. I'm not saying it's hopeless. I'm saying you have to spend your energy where it counts. People ask me all the time, you know, are you worried about this or that specific threat? And the answer is, yeah, probably. Yeah, of course I'm worried. But you

Starting point is 02:31:17 can't let that fear overwhelm you. You know, if I get fixated on the existence of threats that are outside of my control, I'll just freak out. And that makes me less capable of focusing on mitigating the threats that are within my control. So don't put blinders on, don't lie to yourself, you know, be realistic. But don't wear yourself out worrying about things that are so far out of your control that all you have is fear. worrying about things that are so far out of your control that all you have is fear. So today, now, take a deep breath, delete your MySpace account, and talk to your mom about setting all her old Facebook pictures to private. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show,

Starting point is 02:32:21 where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun.

Starting point is 02:33:07 Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous

Starting point is 02:33:31 strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head,

Starting point is 02:34:07 search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters.

Starting point is 02:34:49 From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

Starting point is 02:35:24 Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. The 2025 iHeart Podcast Awards are coming. This is the chance to nominate your podcast for the industry's biggest award. Submit your podcast for nomination now at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. But hurry, submissions close on December 8th.

Starting point is 02:36:03 Hey, you've been doing all that talking. It's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. What's pew pew in my pews? This is Robert Evans, and It Could Happen Here, a podcast about it happening here, as it seems to be more every week. And when things get worse, one thing that a lot of folks start talking about is, should I buy a gun? And obviously, this is a fraught question,

Starting point is 02:36:37 and the only responsible answers to it are very complicated. And so to talk over some very complicated answers, we've got James Stout, and we have in the audience with us the great Carl Casarda. Carl of InRange TV, thank you for coming on to be our resident firearms expert in this podcast where we try not to be deeply irresponsible. Yeah, thank you for having me on. It's always a pleasure to come back to the show, and people always ask for more collabs and here we are, but on a very important topic. And,

Starting point is 02:37:07 uh, yes, the only question I have is now is when do you change the name of the podcast to, Oh no, it's happening here. Uh, we're,

Starting point is 02:37:13 we're talking with the marketing people. Uh, it done happened here. Uh, Oh shit. It's happening again. It's been happening here. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:37:22 Here it is here now. Right. Right. In this moment, Here, now, right in this moment. Be here now, comma, it. Yeah. We've got to work out which one SEO is best, but we're on it, Carl. Don't worry. We're working on it.

Starting point is 02:37:35 So as I think both of you know, but maybe listeners don't, gun sales typically soar before elections, as do ammunition purchases. People are afraid of gun bans has been traditionally one reason why and the firearms industry is not afraid of hyping those up to increase sales in election years and normally prices increase in line with demand like if you go back to november 2020 and look at the prices of ammunition and guns compared to now you'll see how much incredibly higher they were that was for a number of reasons, but considering inflation, gun prices are pretty low right now. You know, that is kind of a recurrent thing

Starting point is 02:38:10 for the most part, is that while everything else gets more expensive, television and firearms remain affordable. Guns have gone to the point where they're more affordable than they've ever been. Uh-huh. Yeah, they really are. AR-15s are, I used to talk about this on InRain, AR-15s are essentially cordwood. And you can get a fully fled, good-to-go AR-15 now for like $400 to $500.

Starting point is 02:38:33 You can get pistols for $250. Oh, yeah. The prices on guns are like through the floor. And it's interesting to note that if you are a gun manufacturer or a firearms dealer, even if you don't hype elections, it would be unintelligent of you to not prep for elections because they're so consistently the Christmas of gun sales. So this is an instance in which we didn't see that. It's kind of interesting. I think there's an element because obviously when we talk, I think, to people who are not into guns and talk about how cheap guns have gotten, they're like, well, that's very bad.

Starting point is 02:39:03 And there's definitely downsides to that. But an upside of that is it does kind of suggest we are not seeing the degree of panicked hoarding for a civil war that we have seen at previous points when gun prices were not as cratered and ammo prices were a lot higher and ammo availability was a lot lower. Like, in some ways, that's kind of an optimistic sign. Yeah, or the dark side of that is the traditional prepper air quote is so saturated in guns and ammunition that they don't even need another one.

Starting point is 02:39:32 Right, well, I think that is where a lot of people are. Also, like capacity really increased in 2020. And I think they've been pumping out, like it's interesting to look at like the cost of nine millimeter and five five six ammunition which if you're not familiar are like the most commonly used defensive ammunition rounds compared to more niche stuff like that hasn't gone down as much if you're trying to get 300 wisdom or something the funny thing that yeah five five six and nine millimeter both the defensively as well as just recreationally, are the most common ammunition by far.

Starting point is 02:40:08 And some of the weirdo stuff I like to shoot, like percussion caps for percussion revolvers, you can't find that stuff to save your life. That stuff's through the roof and expensive. So they've literally just bunkered down intent there and are making 5.56 and 9mm because that's where the demand is and will continue to be. Yeah, I can't find... You can't see it. I have a little reloading setup here. I can't find shotgun primers or certain powders anywhere now. And this is going to be a problem

Starting point is 02:40:35 because if we have another Cowboys and Aliens kind of situation, what are we going to use? What is Harrison Ford going to use to save us? Anyway, nobody saw that movie. Why am I making that joke? Let me know. I've got a good stash of percussion cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 02:40:48 We're all going to be leaning heavily on Carl. Call for all humanity. So I think we've gotten a little bit ahead of our skis here. We should start by talking, because again, I think we've all seen a lot of people being like, well, I guess I should get a gun now, in the wake of Trump's victory. And I think the first caveat we should give everyone is like, if you are reacting in a way that is totally reasonable to this news, being depressed, right? If you're somebody who deals

Starting point is 02:41:14 with suicidal ideation, if you have been spiraling lately, if you have been thinking about self-harm, if you are just not in a stable mental place, and especially if you have no experience with firearms and are not in a stable mental place. Don't go rush to pick one up now. Like, for one thing, I assure you they will be available in the future. They are not going to get harder to buy. No, you know, it reminds me of a line from the movie We Were Soldiers, which is actually a pretty good movie, historically speaking. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah it's a lot of fun not at all in spite of mel gibson it was pretty good and there's a scene where like the old hardened soldier from korea world war ii in korea gets to vietnam and he's like he's just got a pistol and everyone's around him saying don't you want an m16 he goes

Starting point is 02:41:57 don't worry there'll be plenty of those laying around if i need one so right kind of that's where we're at in this country don't worry there'll be plenty laying around if you need one. Yeah, we are not entering a period where that's, you know, I think there are some specific worries where there may be attempts to restrict specific groups from arming themselves. But even so, I wouldn't say that elevates it above a threat if you are dealing with suicidal ideation. Having a gun is not a talisman, as our friend tactical girlfriend often brings up, and you shouldn't treat it as one. And part of what that means is that, like, you have to model, like, the threat that you're facing, right? And if you are not in immediate danger, if nobody is threatening to kill you specifically, you know, then that may not be the safest thing for you, right? And particularly, I think the other side of it that, Carl, you are much more qualified to talk about with than me, is that if you are going to buy a firearm, if you want that

Starting point is 02:42:48 to be a thing that can actually protect you in a situation where you are in danger, where someone is threatening your life, you have to train with it. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that, not to make light of that at all with that little joke about that movie, but the reality is we as people, humans in general, all of us are bad at threat modeling. And that's not to say that the perceived threat that we're seeing with the results isn't real. I think it is. But that said, at the moment, if you're dealing with some of those issues like you mentioned, or the living situation you're in, or even the community around you, isn't one in which a firearm laying around is particularly safe,

Starting point is 02:43:29 could mean that you're actually inducing more threat and risk to yourself than what might come in two years. So, that is something we have to think about very carefully. Can I possess this responsibly? Do I know how to use it responsibly? Am I in a place, not only in my living situation, but my mental state that possessing this very quick and easy-to-use lethal device is safe to have around? Those are questions you should ask first before worrying about tomorrow right yeah i mean maybe we should address like a couple of things that carl said right off the bat like you said having a firearm lying around right one thing that we should address is like i know i recently purchased a new gun safe but like if you have X budget to buy a gun, Robert also mentioned that without training,

Starting point is 02:44:07 you're a liability with the gun, right? Maybe we can break down. If you have a thousand dollars, you don't need to go out and spend a thousand dollars on your gun, right? Perhaps it would be better to save some of that money and put it towards other things. I think it might make sense to just break those down for people in case they're not familiar. Yeah, I think that that might be a good place to start is if you

Starting point is 02:44:29 decide, number one, I'm in an emotionally stable place, I either have some specific threats or I want to be prepared for a future where those threats are more likely. And let's start with a budget of $1,000, right? And, you know, this is one of the, there's going to be people who can't afford a budget of $1,000. And that's very unfortunate you know this is one of the there's going to be people who can't afford a budget of a thousand dollars and that's very unfortunate but this is one of those things that like isn't fair right like guns cost money not everyone has disposable income but a thousand dollars i think is a reasonable floor for not just acquiring a firearm but like the things you need to be able to start building proficiency with it so like let's talk about that car like what would you do,

Starting point is 02:45:06 what would you advise someone with a grand who is looking into getting into shooting and also being set up to potentially defend themselves if they need to? Right. So, this boils, it's such a nuanced question and answer because there's so many variabilities there.

Starting point is 02:45:20 One of which is you have to understand the living situation you're in. Are you living in a place that is solely your own? Do you live with roommates? Do you have still is reasonably difficult to get into, but is accessible otherwise? Do you have a situation in which you're the only one that could access this, and therefore you're not worried about that? So the first thing you have to think about is, I'm taking possession of responsibility of this. It is a lethal weapon. What am I going to do to make sure that that doesn't fall into the wrong hands, whether they're people that live within your own structure or outside of it, should something go awry.

Starting point is 02:46:06 So you have to consider that. So right off the bat is what are the situation I'm in and what are the things I need to consider to make sure this doesn't leak out of my control? Because we've seen in so many instances, especially some of the horrible spree shooting and such, in which it's not the person that possessed the gun, but someone around them that took it from them and used it for that. And that's because it wasn't stored well. And so, that's number one. So, you're going to think about, one, are you getting a pistol or a longarm? And that's a discussion to be had, too. But those two equate.

Starting point is 02:46:35 And then, depending on which one of those two you're acquiring, determines the kind of safe storage requirements that also align with your current living situation. Of course, the best thing is a safe bolted to the floor that only you can get into, but that's not viable for everyone. Yeah, right. But it's something, right? Yeah, yeah. What comes along with that is you also,

Starting point is 02:46:54 this is going to be true at every stage of this process, you need to know the laws of your state and maybe even your local area, right? Like in Oregon, we have very strict safe storage laws, right? Like you can be held accountable to a higher degree in this state if you don't secure a weapon and someone gets access to it, right? Now, obviously, if you have a safe and someone drills into your safe,

Starting point is 02:47:14 you're not liable, right? Like you took the actions you could to stop them from being able to get to your firearms. There's not an expectation that you have a fortress of solitude or whatever, but you have to have taken reasonable steps to lock them away, right? And, you know, that's going to be different. A lot of states have absolutely no requirements whatsoever, but you need to be aware of what your local legal situation is. Yeah, I appreciate you bringing that to the table because myself, living in Arizona, we have no such rules, and so I can essentially... You can just keep them on the floor? I could stack them in my front yard, right?

Starting point is 02:47:49 I'm like, ah, just put them out in the yard. I had extra ARs. I used them to make a fence. Cheaper than wood right now. Yeah, literally cold wood now. So the thing about that is, again, these things get more and more complicated over time, and we don't want to make this conversation impenetrable.

Starting point is 02:48:03 Right. But the kind of safe you acquire is important, too and this that's a deeper topic than we could ever do in one video yeah i'm going to go ahead and just dovetail out to a friend of mine devian olaf he has a channel he does a lot of video work about gun safes and which ones are good or bad but let's just say the cheap 90 thing with the cylindrical key lock isn't it. So you got to be a little better than that. So I would estimate, let's go with cost. You're buying, let's say, an AR-15. You're probably going to need to spend, and I'm guessing here, around $250 for a safe

Starting point is 02:48:33 that's actually worth a damn. Yeah, yeah. It's about what I spent recently for a little handgun safe. Yeah. So let's build on that, right? Let's say you've decided that you want a gun and that it is safe for you to have a gun. I think, yeah, the first thing you ought to prioritize

Starting point is 02:48:49 is making sure that no one for whom it is not safe gets that gun, which we've addressed, right? The second thing that you need to prioritize is that you could use that gun safely and you are not a liability every time that you pick up and load that gun, and like you're not a liability every time yeah that you pick up and load that gun right yes and part of that is in and and maybe y'all will have different opinions on this but i think we're probably simpatico picking the right type of firearm i see a lot of people saying i am

Starting point is 02:49:18 worried i'm going to get attacked you know i am i've been i've gotten a death threat you know i'm scared particularly of this group of, you know, Nazis or whatever. So I'm going to buy a handgun. And I will tell you right now, my opinion is that if you are looking for a self-defense weapon, a handgun probably shouldn't be what you pick unless you are looking to carry a gun. Yeah, no, that's a good quote, right? I carry a handgun because it's unwieldy to walk around with a Biffin 50 BMG. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I cannot take my AR with me in the street, right?

Starting point is 02:49:51 So I keep a nine on me, you know? Handguns are the most difficult thing to use skillfully under distress and duress than any other firearm. And above and beyond that, they are actually the least effective at doing the job you think they're going to do than anything else yeah yeah there are a shocking number of people are shot way more times than you would expect they could survive with a handgun right like yeah that is just a reality of the way that they work because they're much much less powerful than a rifle and it's also like i had a friend a couple of years ago who bought a snub nose 38 thinking, well, this is simple. I can't fuck it up. It's a good and I took her out and was like, I'm going to set up a 10 foot target and we'll see how many times you can hit it with this gun. and she was able to hit it every time, right?

Starting point is 02:50:45 And it's because one of those is a much easier weapon for somebody who is a complete novice to learn how to use functionally, right? And it's not the snub-nosed.38. In the roughest of most senses, typically the smaller the gun is, the more a professional you need to be to use it. Right. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:51:02 And like with that in mind, you're responsible for every shot you fire right training in self-defense whatever by fucking accident because you don't know how to clean your gun or what have you every bullet that leaves that barrel it's your fault and every one of those is potentially someone's life so when you're thinking about buying a gun you want to have something where you can a handle it safely and be discharging and know where that bullet's going to go yeah so on that note this has been asked for me many times and we're talking about we're all we are on the same page it's like when someone asked me this

Starting point is 02:51:34 question and it comes up more than you think um first of all we're getting past the issue of like are you safe to own this and safe storage so now we're at the point you are buying a gun right so you have to think about what's the threat? Are we worried about three years from now and the potential realities of a very caustic and dangerous political future? Are you worried about only home defense? Are you worried about your own self-protection walking down the street? Because obviously you're not going to be, well, not obviously, but for the most part, you're not going to be carrying an AR-15 down the street. But if you are only worried about your castle, make a joke about castle doctrine, if you're only worried about your house, inside your house, there is no reason to be picking a

Starting point is 02:52:09 pistol. None whatsoever. Now, I will say that there's a number of folks in the lefty gun space who will say, so just get an AR-15. That's not always going to be practical depending on your laws, right? Like, that is not something that we can say everyone will be able to do right yeah but we can say there will be a non-handgun option that will probably be a better fit for you yeah absolutely and this is where we see a lot of people in the gun space or it's kind of weird there's like cultural shifts in the zeitgeist yeah what's the cool defensive thing of the time but there's a lot to be said depending on what you think you're going to have to shoot and hopefully never of course but like yeah and and ar-15 does things like armor piercing in terms

Starting point is 02:52:50 of kevlar and da da da da da but for home defense it really still is kind of hard to go wrong with a shotgun in many instances and that should not be ignored you know what else shouldn't be ignored it's our obligation to pivot to advertisements about every 15 minutes on this show. All right, we're back. Carl, you've mentioned that you think a shotgun sometimes can be more effective than AR-15. Especially another thing I will add is here, in a state like California, the laws right semi-automatic centerfire rifles are incredibly

Starting point is 02:53:30 confusing it's extremely easy to buy something on amazon slap it on your gun and render it a felony yeah i would generally say like in most situations an ar if you're new to shooting it's going to be easier to figure out. They're very simple, easy to upgrade and modify. But like, yeah, in California, in a state, New York is similar. It's very easy to commit a felony with an AR-15 and not know that you are. And you don't want to find out that your gun is a felony when you have to use it in self-defense, right? This is an instance in which the good old man, again, I'm not trying to, I'm not on team shotgun here, but

Starting point is 02:54:07 when it comes to cross all state lines, I mean, sure, there's an exception somewhere, but for the most part, a manually pump activated shotgun. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:54:16 Is likely to not run a fallible law anywhere. Additionally, there's a good chance that if you were to, and we have to consider all realities, there's a good chance that should you need to use it, that when you're in court trying to defend yourself for using this lethal weapon, a shotgun doesn't seem to evoke the same concerns, let's say, from courts and from judges that an AR might.

Starting point is 02:54:37 An AR, you know, regardless of how common they are and how much they proliferate society, there's still those scary rifles. A shotgun does not tend to evoke that same kind of response it is most likely legal almost anywhere and the diversity of ammunition you can use in it really bridges the gap from one yard to 100 yards or more but a lot of people that are new to guns will think well shotgun i don't need to aim that is incorrect shotguns need to be aimed as much as any other long arm. They're just very effective when they actually connect. Yeah. It's one of those, I think, because I do change what I am taking with me based on where I go.

Starting point is 02:55:13 And when I'm in California, I generally, if I'm going camping or something, I'll make sure I have a 12-gauge in the car, right? Because I'm not going to try to get whatever this month's gun laws are right. Like that's just not practical to me. That said, I think because there are a number of people who will be very frustrated at us talking about shotguns. One thing that they are right about is there's a different type of training that's necessary with the shotgun, and they are in some ways more complicated to use than an AR in part because for every shot, well, unless it's a semi-automatic, like for every shot you're pumping it, right? And like that is a, that is, there's muscle memory that has to be built there, right? It's harder, you know,

Starting point is 02:55:56 maybe a little bit slower to get up to a level, or at least you have to train differently with it, right? The other thing about it is that like it loads very differently. You know, a shotgun is a completely different kind of ammunition than an AR has, which all goes back to the whole, like, you have to be willing to train with whatever it is you're going to use. Fair enough. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:56:16 So ideally, like, if you're in this position of thinking, if you can find a friend or failing that range that will allow you to try different guns, I think as a novice, you're going to pick up, if you've never shot a gun before, I probably wouldn't pick up a 12-gauge shotgun and start pewing away because the recoil will be quite profound and noticeable to you.

Starting point is 02:56:37 So don't start there. Start with something else. There's smaller shotguns, a 20-gauge. Yeah, and those are fine, especially if you're a smaller statute person, even a 28 or 16 is hard to probably buy defensive ammunition for. But I think if you can, when you begin that journey,

Starting point is 02:56:53 like often I see people say with handguns, find one that fits your hand. You probably have no idea what fits you and feels good if you're just starting out. Yeah. Finding someone who is local to you, ideally who has some experience who can help you along that process i think and someone who you trust right like i've been like i have to train i

Starting point is 02:57:12 have a concealed carry weapons permit in california the last time i went to take a course like from the outset i got like xenophobia homophobia like jokes that I guess the guy who was instructing the course thought that everyone was in on. Just like they made me feel unwelcome and I'm a cishet white guy. Yeah. But I think maybe we should address that. Like if you're thinking getting started,

Starting point is 02:57:35 what kind of instruction should you look for? Where should you look for it? And like, what would you recommend? Maybe other sources too, Carl, like your YouTube channel has been a great resource for me. This is where we're in the firearms. Owning a thing doesn't make a community.

Starting point is 02:57:52 So there's always this phrase, the gun community. It's not a thing. Owning a thing doesn't make a community. A community is a group of people that bond together over a mutual beliefs and hopefully care for one another. So there's no firearms community.

Starting point is 02:58:04 But that said, the broad scope of people that have been interested in the topic for the longest duration of time has been mostly seceded to a group that we would not find ourselves aligned with or comfortable with being around. And so this is where the community building thing is real, because the more we build communities, and we're behind in this regards in terms to alternative voices in the firearm space, but the more we build that community, not only online, but amongst one another, the more we're going to have safer, better spaces for us to work together to learn how to use these things safely and efficiently.

Starting point is 02:58:35 And that is a challenge. If you walk in sight unseen to a place that is probably foreign to you in firearms land, sadly, at this point in time time there's a pretty good chance it's not going to be something you're going to be comfortable with quite honestly just like you mentioned james like it's going to be that kind of stuff there's probably going to be trump stuff on the wall there's probably going you're probably going to hear some jokes that are just jokes but you know they're really not yeah that's the kind of space that that's filled with and so when people come and say well who can i go to to get this training with i'm like that's challenging there's some options online there's like operation blazing

Starting point is 02:59:08 sword there's a there's um there's uh the the liberal gun club has some training options as well but what's better is finding people and interconnecting with people of like mind around you if you can and working together and then actually building a real community that isn't a gun community and that's where we're going to find solace and the ability to get better at this stuff together. Not exactly a strong answer, but it's the truth. But if you're going in just unhindered, you're going to expect it to be a place that you're probably not going to be happy with. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:59:41 And I think that's a really good point. Can we talk a little bit more about training options? Because you mentioned Operation Blazing Sword, I'd like to hear a little more about them, but also where people could go for reading and videos in order to find't teach you how to actually like effectively hit targets with something right right yeah you can you can't there's no way to learn that besides doing it but in terms of general firearms understanding learning some of the history learning about how guns work there are some youtube resources out there um tactical girlfriend you already mentioned has four years of a legacy of content on her site that a lot of it is focused on beginner-style content. In fact, she just posted a playlist. She has kind of stopped making videos in general. She mentioned that a while back, but she still has her content online, and she posted a playlist recently of all of her How to Get Going

Starting point is 03:00:39 videos, 101 stuff. And that would kind of be where I'd start with yes absolutely my channel in range tv has some of that i tend to focus a little bit on the more esoteric and like uh next level things but that's not to say it's not there as well so i'm not trying to self-promote but i would actually say her playlist is going to be better than some of my own although we have stuff like that on in range tv as well if you want to open up that dark void called Reddit, the liberal gun club has resources on it. If you go there, they have a list of people and local resources. You can also Google the liberal gun club. I'm not even trying to say anyone doing that is necessarily identifying as a liberal, but they are, they have gathered lists of statewide resources,

Starting point is 03:01:19 as many as they can, but are providing training in regional places. That would be a good place to start. Operation Blading Sword is a subset of that. Blake Alv... I can't pronounce his name. Blake has been on my channel, and you'll find him there in the Liberal Gun Club listing. When I think of that, I would say go to YouTube, hit up Tactical Girlfriend. Go to InRangeTV if you want to see maybe not 101, but next-level stuff, but a friendly space to you. And then check out the Liberal Gun gun club best I can say,

Starting point is 03:01:45 because they do have a list of resources that they're gathering across the country. Yeah. And I think one thing that tactical girlfriend talks about that is a, cause, cause you you're right. And I think this is an important point that like you have to spend time shooting and you know, that costs money in order to get better. But there is one thing that you can do that does not cost ongoing money to get better with a handgun. If you're, again, looking to carry a gun, which is dry fire training, right?

Starting point is 03:02:11 Which is a very useful process of building proficiency. You can do it. I mean, you could do it every day if you want. It will help. It does not replace needing to go shoot, right? But you can find guides. Tactical Girlfriend talks about it a lot, but you can find other guides online,

Starting point is 03:02:26 and that is a way that you can kind of stretch your ammo budget and gain additional proficiency. There are even products designed specifically for that. One of them is Pop the Mine, and there are others like Mantis X. And you make sure your gun is safely unloaded and you're proficient with that part of it. You put these devices in, and you can actually fire it. A dry fire is firing with no ammunition in the click add a target on the wall and it'll teach

Starting point is 03:02:48 you things about like did you pull to the right did you push to the left did you dip the gun and those are very good products that you can use once you buy them gets more money but you can train proficiently in a safe place without firing live ammunition and improve your skills quite a bit that's a good point yep yeah i would like, another organization I would plug is Armed Equality, especially for, like, LGBTQIA people, a friend of mine, very nice people. Perhaps we should go back then to that. Like, Robert's mentioned dry firing.

Starting point is 03:03:17 Well, first, I think we need to go to ads, James. You're right, Robert. We should go back to Chumba Casino. Yeah, so dry fire at the wall and think of Trumba Casino. Or just download an upgrade from Neuralink that you got from Elon. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Our primary sponsors, the brain chip. All right, we're back so we've had discussion about training safe storage and a little bit about like what to look at firearms wise um but i want to go back to that third one because

Starting point is 03:03:56 you are marketed at so heavily when you're trying to buy a firearm right and the likelihood of you getting misinformation, right? We all know smaller statute people who have been given, yeah, a snub-nosed.38, a gun that's entirely inappropriate for them. Carl, if you could maybe go through each major category, right? If we do handgun, shotgun, semi-automatic rifle, maybe one that is compatible with ar band states and one that's you know yeah you're in real america there are some options like the aries scr that are basically

Starting point is 03:04:34 ar-15s that are a lot easier to keep in compliance in a state like california but they are also more than twice as expensive as like a budget ar-15, right? Like, which is not to say it's impossible to have a budget AR-15 that is in compliance with California law. It's just, I am not going to take on the responsibility of telling you how to do that legally because when I lived in California, I was only about 80% sure that I was in compliance with the law. If you're in California, my advice would be to go to a shop and buy the gun complete yes don't piece it together off the internet that's good good advice

Starting point is 03:05:11 oh well if you're a new gun owner don't piece together anything together because the knowledge to make something reliable that you've put together from bits and pieces is not a good idea you want something that's got i mean literally you want something from a quote-unquote reputable manufacturer but it has a warranty like let's just be don't even start with trying to put something together yeah yeah so let's just go ahead and start with pistols so the challenge there is like of course it would be very nice to be able to buy like four of them because you can train with a 22 and practice with this and well let's go with the constraint that we had earlier of this thousand dollars and you're going to buy a pistol and with it you plan to train get better

Starting point is 03:05:44 be proficient but also maybe have to use it for self-defense you really going to buy a pistol and with it you plan to train get better be proficient but also maybe have to use it for self-defense you really want to stick with a nine millimeter i mean there are smaller guns like 380s and such like that but we're getting into specialist guns yeah what is um what i'm going to say here across the board when i recommend something it's going to be the opposite of specialist it's going to be the most bland boring possible thing yeah and when it comes to that, and I know that everyone's like, but it's a 9mm probably a Glock. Yep. The Glock 19 is a relatively

Starting point is 03:06:09 reasonably sized gun. The 17's a little bigger. The 19's in this nice middle ground. It is carryable. It's small enough to be concealed should you have the right to do so. But it's big enough to be viable for being reasonably accurate with not extensive amounts of training, but enough training to get good.

Starting point is 03:06:26 Yeah. And it's a bunch around the 9mm magazine that just plain works. Yep. If you're on a tight budget, I would say that cops are always... You can find trade-in police clocks pretty cheap. Cops don't shoot very much. You can sometimes get some pretty good deals on those.

Starting point is 03:06:42 Yep. That's it. I'm revealing a little bit of future history of what's going on in range. We're doing a video in a couple of weeks. There is a strange trade imbalance between us and nevermind the politics, Turkey, and they are making some really high end, really well-made guns.

Starting point is 03:06:57 There is a Glock clone from Turkey that I can't vouch for yet, but this is the kind of where we're at in the gun space. This thing is interchangeable with all Glock parts and the gun's like 250 bucks. Oh, well, you can't vouch for yet but this is the kind of where we're at in the gun space this thing is interchangeable with all glock parts and the gun's like 250 bucks oh well you can't be we don't know yet i'm not saying go buy that but i'm saying we're going to do a review of it the point is there are glocks and glock like things that can get the price down yeah right and so you're looking at you know if you get a budget ar for 500 bucks you know budget 9mm handgun, because even with not counting that one, there are other budget options that are in the $300-ish range. You just have to look around a bit.

Starting point is 03:07:34 I should also note, buying used with a firearm is not like buying used with electronics. If a gun is well-maintained, it will outlast you. There are some parts that will need replacing from time to time right your springs and stuff are going to age faster than other things and like barrels you can shoot out but it takes quite a bit of shooting to shoot a barrel you know smooth right so it's never a bad to consider like finding like you said like a police trade-in or something like that like that could be a great way to save money absolutely so when it comes to the pistol we're talking about buying just one pretty much boil it down to a nine millimeter yep that is probably a polymer frame gun not some big heavy steel thing a glock is the

Starting point is 03:08:14 is like the de facto but there are others i mean there's there's hk's there's rugers yeah i like sigs but they're pricier yeah yeah yeah the thing about Glock is Glock's been around forever. It's the standard. Finding, accessorizing, buying magazines, or even getting repairs done to a Glock is ubiquitous across the country. If you get a Glock, you'll be able to deal with it, fix it, do whatever you want to it, straight up. And what has helped me a lot in general is,

Starting point is 03:08:40 I have my carry gun, I have my home defense firearm and then i have i have bought built a couple of firearms from the ground up and i would certainly as you said i would never have started there but because i had the extra money doing that means that has has given me so much deeper of an understanding of what goes wrong when things do go wrong yeah with a gun and how to fix it like i have i've replaced every part on my carry gun at this point, right? Like over time. And it's like given me a much deeper level of understanding of just like

Starting point is 03:09:10 mechanically how these things function, you know, building an AR 15 was the same process. And I'm really, I do find that valuable. Obviously it, it's, it's throwing more money at the problem too.

Starting point is 03:09:21 Yeah, totally. So the other, the other advantage of nine millimeter, which is reasonably cheap to feed and shoot, reasonably cheap to practice with, for those of you that don't know anything about guns, you will typically practice with what's called

Starting point is 03:09:32 FMJ bulk pack ammunition. Yeah. 9mm, 115 grain. It's just a bullet that's got a copper jacket on it. And that's your practice ammo. And then for carry, should you be carrying it, you'll probably want to carry something that's specifically designed to be defensive ammunition. It'll be far

Starting point is 03:09:48 more expensive per box, but once you get to the point of, yes, I am ready, safe and capable to carry this, you're going to want to pick something gold dots, spear gold dots or a hollow point, designed to specifically be for self-defense. But make sure the gun you've chosen works reliably with that defensive ammo, because

Starting point is 03:10:04 even though it works 100% with that FMJ, it may not work with the defensive ammo. And you might have to play with it a little bit. Yeah. We should also note when you are buying ammo online, which is not going to be legal in every state, but most people will be able to do this. It pays to be careful. There is a lot of stuff that is sketchier out there, and there can be consequences. I have had a firearm. I have had like a handgun blow up in my hand as a result of getting ammunition that I had not shot before. This was, in fact, Turkish.

Starting point is 03:10:34 I think it was because I think it was a hot load, but it's possible that it was the result of a bullet, a squib that then jammed in the barrel and then another round came in after it. I generally have been pretty good at checking to make sure there's a hole in the paper with each shot, which is something you should be making sure of when you're shooting. Because if you shoot a round that does not have enough powder behind it, if you get a bad round, it can jam in the barrel

Starting point is 03:11:02 and then the second round can cause the barrel to burst. This is also why we always wear eye protection. But when looking at ammo, if you think this looks like good ammo and it's cheap, look online, add like Reddit to the name, see what other people say about it, right? Like, see if you can find anything written about that. Usually other people, if it's like a less reliable manufacturer, will have said, I've had a bad experience with this ammunition. Do your diligence, right? The first time you're shooting a new kind of cheap target ammo.

Starting point is 03:11:31 That being said, like, there's a lot of names that almost anyone that's never owned a gun before will recognize. Names like Remington, Winchester. That's not to say that they don't make mistakes, too. But, like, if you're going to go buy a Winchester bulk pack of ammunition, you are buying at least what is generally considered consumer level reliable ammo if you're buying it absolutely crazy bob's reloading shack right

Starting point is 03:11:54 that was what because it's a lot of the sketchy stuff isn't even a manufacturer it's like ammo that you may not notice immediately it's like oh, oh, wow, this seems really cheap. And then it'll say in small letters, remanufactured, right? Which means somebody has reloaded it, reloaded ammo. And like, you know, you can reload ammo and have it be perfectly good ammunition. But do you know who reloaded this ammo, right? I will tell you as a person that shoots a lot and has been doing it for decades, I personally, even with all that, I will never fire remanufactured ammunition. I don't want to deal

Starting point is 03:12:25 with Crazy Bob's weird bad Wednesday. Yes. Yes. Yes. Crazy Bob's bad Wednesday bullets. It's a great name for it. Yes.

Starting point is 03:12:33 Yes. We've addressed the pistol, right? Like, I want to address long guns and then you mentioned a couple of things, Carl, which you should also address,

Starting point is 03:12:41 which are like accessories. Robert mentioned eye protection. ear and eye protection. Let me add one more piece to the pistol, and we'll move on. Yep. The thing now, the whiz-bang thing now, is every pistol has a red dot sight on it. A red dot sight is essentially an electro-optical box that sits on the top of the slide,

Starting point is 03:12:57 and you look through it to aim, and it projects a red dot, almost like a laser dot if you're not familiar with it, to aim with. For the most part, I'm not saying you shouldn't have one because they're cool, but for the most part, a person getting into this specifically for self-defense does not need one of those. You don't need to spend $300 on a red dot.

Starting point is 03:13:15 The iron sights that come on any of these guns should be sufficient for most purposes. So don't get suckered into, I need that. If that's something you want later, think about it, but it's not a requirement. Now that said, if a gun has one on it, I don't agree with people into, I need that. If that's something you want later, think about it, but it's not a requirement. Now that said, if a gun has one on it, I don't agree with people who say like, you can't learn to shoot on a red dot.

Starting point is 03:13:31 I think that that's, now you should, you will need to look up because it may not be cited how to cite it, right? Like, because it, like red dots are a thing, like you need to dial them in, right? And there is a way to do that. Again, you can find guides to this online, just like you can find guides to mounting a scope on a rifle. These are complex mechanical tasks, a red dot less so than a scope, but you can't just

Starting point is 03:13:57 buy a gun with a red dot on it and trust that that red dot points out where the bullet's going to go. That's not how they work. Absolutely. My point being is if you gave me, you said, this person here needs to be able to hit a target 15 yards away. You've got one hour. I would not be messing by giving them a red dot. I would give them something with iron sights and just get them through the task. That's where I'm going with that. Yeah, I think that's perfectly reasonable.

Starting point is 03:14:18 Yeah. I prefer, like, now that I know what I'm doing to use my red dots and stuff, but I also pretty regularly shoot with iron sights, in part because I like it. It's enjoyable mechanically, and it's kind of how I learned. Well, don't get me wrong. It is better. Yeah. It also adds another level of complexity. It's more to go wrong.

Starting point is 03:14:39 If you're installing that yourself, it's annoying, and it's easy to mess up. And then you're upset and yeah yeah let's move on to long guns like one thing that we should mention that if that is you might buy an ar specifically an ar actually and find that it comes with no sighting systems at all yes and so that's a thing to build into your budget so let's talk about about what to get for your budget in the long gun category, Carl. Yeah, so when we go to long guns, we talk about rifles and shotguns. Let's stick with rifles for now, I'm assuming. So in that regard, this is the thing where, like, actually I have a video on my channel about the NFA, which is the National Firearms Act, which is what regulates a lot of machine guns and stuff.

Starting point is 03:15:21 But this also occurs across many gun control laws. They're frequently ableist. Very much so. lot of like machine guns and stuff but this also occurs across many gun control laws they're frequently ableist very much so and the things that they push the most restrictions on are the things that are actually most capable and that means that means ar-15s in their general guise with a pistol grip and a red dot sight which we just mentioned for pistols and a 30 round magazine is the thing that is going to be the most... I could get anyone, I tell you anyone, capable of hitting a target at 50 yards within a four-hour training session with a red dot sighted AR-15 and a good magazine.

Starting point is 03:15:54 It's a good ammunition. AR-15s are light, low recoil. They're loud because of the 5.56, but they're light, low recoil guns that almost anyone of most body structure can handle. Now, there's exceptions, of course. If you have specific physical challenges, that's another discussion. But almost anyone, tiny to large, can handle a basic AR-15. And it is the gun that is most focused on for gun control, ironically.

Starting point is 03:16:20 Places like California, where they take away things that make it more functional, like the pistol grip or reduce your magazine capacity, because they're trying to diminish the functionality of the gun. But the reality is, the reason they're doing that is because that is the gun that is most functional for most people, and it is therefore the one that almost anyone can handle pretty well with the smallest amount of training. Yeah. Yes. And i think there's a good point there in if i were coaching someone who was buying an ar that has no you know does not have iron sights on it at all you are it is much easier to learn how to sight in and use a red dot on an ar than learning how to adjust the site the the iron sights on an ar-15 right like not that you can't learn that. You should, again, you have to,

Starting point is 03:17:05 you can watch a video on it, but it's much more intuitive to set up a red dot in that way. This is actually where I would flip-flop. If you're with the pistol, don't concern yourself too much with the red dot. If you're going with an AR-15, concern yourself with the red dot.

Starting point is 03:17:18 Please get a red dot. Do the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. Unless you were like in the Marines or something and you know how to dial in your ir irons right like and even then you're gonna have a better time with a red dot yeah yeah totally and you're once and a red dot is very intuitive so one of the things that people aren't familiar with firearms but when you bring up a long arm there's multiple points of contact

Starting point is 03:17:38 to the person shooting the gun and you bring up a pistol you probably have two hands on it and you're pushing your arms out almost like you're like making a triangle and you're up a pistol, you probably have two hands on it, and you're pushing your arms out, almost like you're making a triangle. When you're using a long arm, like an AR-15, there's a buttstock on your shoulder. Your cheek is on the actual comb, which is the base of the stock. Your other hand, your support hand, is folding the gun up on the front of it. You have a minimum of three points of contact. With a red dot, that makes it very stable and easy to get reliable hits. And the red dot means you can keep both eyes open, don't need to worry about

Starting point is 03:18:06 the idiosyncrasies of focusing on a front sight. Essentially, if it's zero, meaning the dot is regulated to where the gun hits, and you put the dot on the thing and press the trigger without doing something like jerking the gun, you'll hit the target. And so that's why that matters. Yeah. So

Starting point is 03:18:21 what sort of budget should people be looking at, and would you be comfortable recommending like even brands that they should look at i it all comes down to cost when it comes to air 15s you can spend as much money as you want um the reality is i have a video on the channel never mind if you like or dislike the company they're one of the ones that really push the lower cost products out there psaA stands for Palmetto, Palmetto state armory. You can go there and get your branded Trump lower,

Starting point is 03:18:48 but at the same time you can get an AR 15 for like 400 bucks. Yeah. And like in the gun space, you're not, you're not going to find someone to buy who is spotless and selling guns in large numbers cheaply. Yeah. Like that's generally not.

Starting point is 03:19:02 So like, so, so for 400 bucks or around there from psa you can get a traditional what's called an m4 it's essentially a 16 inch carbine it won't have any sighting system on it so expect to throw another 200 bucks ish onto a reasonable red dot sight on that so for around the 600 range you're going to get a gun that's going to weigh 7 pounds, but it's going to have low recoil, and you're going to have something that's for the most part reasonably reliable.

Starting point is 03:19:30 Is it the best of the best? No, but it's reasonably lightweight. It is well manufactured. I've done videos about them on my channel. They've worked just fine. And so $400-ish for the gun, $200 for the sighting system, a couple mags.

Starting point is 03:19:45 You could get out the door for under $700 with everything, probably under that, maybe under $600, even if you're careful. Oh, but let me plug one thing. If you've got lots more money, double that.

Starting point is 03:19:57 What would Stoner do, Carbine, which I designed, it'll be half the weight and super reliable from K&E Arms. I love mine. But it doesn't bring any money to me. I'm just saying the point I'm making here is

Starting point is 03:20:06 you can get something good enough, and if you got more money, there is better out there that are lighter, more reliable guns. But you don't need to, is my point. I'm not trying to sell anything here. Yeah. They are one of the few manufacturers who offer a California-compliant solution at checkout,

Starting point is 03:20:21 which is nice for California people. Yes, yes. So that can be a really beneficial thing to you in terms of you know not having it be something that you're scared about california compliant will probably mean no flash hider no pistol grip and a fixed magazine at least at this point in time you can have you can have the removable magazine if you don't have the flash hider the pistol grip and the collapsing stock so okay all right well if you can buy it from them ready to go uh there's i know there's also magazine

Starting point is 03:20:50 capacity requirements or in so maybe you have to buy like a couple 10 round mags or something like that yeah obviously 30 round mags are better than 10 round mags and uh for most if you live in a place like california do not worry too much that. If you get a little proficiency on that, a couple of 10-round mags will do a lot. And to be honest, in self-defense shootings, the odds are low that you will be firing that many rounds, right? Now, if you're in a self-defense shooting where you do need more bullets than that,

Starting point is 03:21:19 there's really nothing that can replace having those bullets available. Yeah, don't get wrapped around the axle on it. It's not something you can change the the fact that you only have a 10 round magazine does not mean that you can't become proficient yeah and i don't want anyone here to think that i'm saying you shouldn't you should be able to get a 60 round magazine one far as i'm concerned places like california to have these restrictions have them statistically speaking and i don't know if these this data changed, most self-defense shootings happen within three yards, three seconds, three shots fired. Yep, yep.

Starting point is 03:21:49 I think it's really good to remember that when you're seeing some YouTuber tell you you need to be able to have 30 rounds and fire 500 yards. I don't go downtown without my backpack and my SBR 300 blackout with six 30-round magazines accessible. I was a conservative man scared of cities. Yeah. Yeah, I carry an RPG and I take the little safety cap off

Starting point is 03:22:12 because I like to live that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, dangerously. My clothing is made out of debt cord. I just wear nothing but debt cord wherever I go. We're all going down. At least you'll take some people with you. This whole city blocks done. self-defense martin oh but let me say one more thing about long arms another thing you'll see from people that are new in the space depending on like what they've seen

Starting point is 03:22:33 or what they've consumed this is going to get some hate don't bother with ak's yeah just don't this is the united states of america and this country believes in the air 15 and what that boiled down to is they're everywhere they're prolific the parts are here yeah the repair is here they're well manufactured when you stray from that course to something like an ak you're first of all you're losing ergonomics but that's a different problem you're dealing with an un an unknown quantity of problems you get an ar-15 that's what's in this country it's what's prolific yeah if you were in if you were in That's what's in this country. It's what's prolific.

Starting point is 03:23:08 If you were in somewhere war-torn Africa, get your AK. I'll say this about the war-torn AK countries, because I've been in three countries where the primary arm is an AKM, right? Like a kind of AK, right? Syria, Ukraine, and Iraq. In all three of those countries, every soldier who knew their stuff, who was proficient and had the option, chose an AR platform if they could. Yeah. 100% of the time. They're just better firearms.

Starting point is 03:23:31 Yeah. That's been my experience as well. They look cool, but don't go there. Just get an AR 15. Yeah. Like, I love my AKs, but they're range toys. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:23:41 So let's talk about accessorizing which again is much easier with ais and aks like what other stuff do you need to build into your budget if you've not shot before you might not know that you need air pro ipro sling maybe holster well we'll start with the firearms accessories right so with the pistol you're first of all we talked about safe storage that's already off the table uh with the pistol, if you plan to carry it, you need a good, reliable holster and a good, reliable gun belt. Good Lord. Yes. Depending on how you want to carry it, that'll determine the kind of holster.

Starting point is 03:24:14 If you want it outside the waistband, which means it sits outside your belt, that's one thing. If you're carrying it concealed, you're probably going to want it inside the waistband, which goes between your belt and your body. Again, another level of training there, because when you're drawing from that, things can go wrong. Sure. And that's where people tend to shoot themselves, so that's something you need to be very cautious of. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:24:33 But with a pistol, typically, you're going to want probably an extra magazine or two. It may come with one, depending on what you bought. A quality gun belt and a quality holster. Now, what about a.44 Derringer and an ankle holster on each ankle, right? Like, that seems like the ideal solution. Anytime you're in danger,

Starting point is 03:24:51 you just got to squat right down there, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Get real low. When you've been pushed onto your back by the mob and you're there in that scene and you're pulling it out of your ankle holster. Yeah, right. No, no, no just just get a wire around the trigger and attach it to your toes so that you can squeeze your toes and fire from the danger what you need is the belt buckle revolver from

Starting point is 03:25:15 north american arms yeah that's great yeah no from that freaking movie the vampire movie quentin tarantino oh geez dust till dawn dust till dawn god yeah no but for the pistol belt a magazine or two extra it might come with them and a quality holster now the obvious question is what's a quality holster and the obvious answer is there's too many out there to be able to offer you that answer right now probably something polymer if it's going to be outside the waistband and this will be another one that will get people fired up. Generally, avoid the SERPA holsters unless you really want to have a lot of training. SERPA holsters are one that have a little button on the side that allows the gun to come out.

Starting point is 03:25:57 If you're not trained well or have the wrong gun in it, it also allows you to accidentally shoot yourself quite easily as well. Yeah, best avoided. That's a very good point. And also, one thing I will note is there's a danger that a lot of people aren't aware of with leather, which is that leather holsters. Now, there are some leather holsters that have like a trigger area reinforced with kyde when you holster it. Like, that's a thing that has happened to people. So I generally think you want whatever, you want the trigger guard to be rigid and not something that's going to, like, warp and be malleable around the trigger, right?

Starting point is 03:26:38 Like, the whole point is that it stops the trigger from firing. Yes, you want to avoid that. How about with the long guns? Like, what are you going to need to budget for those and then other things like for shooting generally that you'll need if you don't already have them so when it comes to the long arm we already said if you're going to get an ar-15 you're going to want to stick some sort of red dot sight on it the lowest cost ones that are the unbelievably bomb proof are a chinese company called hollow sun hell yeah i have a hollow sun from 2017 that it still works just fine i love my hollow suns yeah my hollow

Starting point is 03:27:12 sun's been bounced down an asphalt road and it still works fine so it's the opposite of a fail sun a hollow sun so you can pick up a red dot hollow sun those can go in you can get those sometimes sometimes the low is like 150 bucks yeah so you'll need a red dot hollow sun. Those can go in. You can get those sometimes. Sometimes the low is like 150 bucks. Yeah. So you'll need a red dot site. A sling is nice, not required, especially if you're going to be using them within the premises of your property.

Starting point is 03:27:35 You probably don't need to worry about that. Also, slings can cause issues, like get caught on things or on things in your house or even tangle you up. So that's a training issue. So sling is iffy an extra magazine or two and if you're planning on needing to use this for a defensive purpose inside of your home or structure or at night it's not the worst thing in the world to throw on a flashlight yeah yes especially if it's like a defensive firearm like

Starting point is 03:28:02 it's your home defense gun or a carry gun like a flashlight and also if you're i think it's like a defensive firearm, like your home defense gun or a carry gun, like a flashlight. And also if you're, I think it's generally a good idea. If you're going to carry a carry firearm with a flashlight, have another flashlight that's not on a gun, because one thing you should never do is use your gun flashlight to look at just random shit that you need a flashlight for.

Starting point is 03:28:22 You come home at night. It's dark. You forgot. You forgot. You can't find which key is the right key. You're using your gun to illuminate your door. Don't do that. Don't do that.

Starting point is 03:28:31 Don't do that. Don't do that. It's a pretty good list of accessories there. Make sure you have a lot of ear and eye protection as well. So we're going to go on the safety side of things. You need proper shooting glasses. That means not the glasses that you picked up

Starting point is 03:28:44 for readers at Walgreens. Their shooting glasses can be as cheap as nine bucks all the way up to hundreds of bucks you can get them at the sporting goods store but they're designed with the kind of plastic to be able to take shrapnel or hits from pieces of fragments that are high velocity they're meant for that so ten dollar shooting glasses yes you need yes hearing protection those can be squishy earplugs you put in your ear, or they can be over-the-head muffs. Do not ever shoot guns, except in the most critical conditions or situations,

Starting point is 03:29:13 without eye protection and hearing protection. Because that's the kind of stuff where you lose an eye, and every time you fire that gun, you're losing hearing every time. Yes. Yes. Yes. And, like, for the...

Starting point is 03:29:24 Really, because obviously most like it hurts to shoot a firearm without hearing protection like you can get away with shooting a gun without ipro every time but the one time right which is why i really emphasize eye protection it's easy to convince yourself i don't need to have it on right now you do like because that's the day that it does the thing yes yes guns do fuck up for lack of a better term and you really don't want your eye unprotected if they do yeah it's uh it's a bad day absolutely and so but you on the safety side of of eye protection and hearing protection it can be as cheap as $10 shooting glasses and a bottle of squishy earplugs. You're going to be in there for $20.

Starting point is 03:30:09 Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't have to be expensive. Make sure you have it and make sure you use it. But you know what? Before you do any of this, you know what's a smart thing to do? Go take a class from Stop the Bleed and learn how to use tourniquets and medical gear. Yes.

Starting point is 03:30:20 And have that around anyway. Before you ever buy a gun, go do that. Yes. Yes. That's the most important thing you could do for anyone. Yes, and that, as you said, should be a priority before getting the firearm. And if you have the money to get and train a gun,

Starting point is 03:30:34 you have no excuse for not having an individual first aid kit, an IFAC, and the knowledge of how to use it, right? And I think Stop the Bleed classes are usually free. You can look it up at stopthebleed.com or.org. Google it. Take a class. It's easy how to use a. Right? And I think Stop the Bleed classes are usually free. You can look it up at stopthebleed.com or.org. Google it. Take a class.

Starting point is 03:30:48 It's easy how to use a tourniquet, how to use a bandage. Have an IFAC, as was just mentioned, which can be a pretty simple kit. And as you said,

Starting point is 03:30:54 Robert, if you can afford a gun, you can afford that and have that with you on the range anytime you're shooting because as you said, guns can fuck up.

Starting point is 03:31:01 They usually don't, but if they do, you're going to want that IFAC. And that IFAK and that training might just help your neighbor one day when they get in a car accident or whatever. I regularly make the decision not to carry my gun with me places, right? You know, I'm going to go out and get drunk tonight. I don't need to have a firearm on me when I'm drunk. But you know what

Starting point is 03:31:19 I always have is the IFAK, right? Every single know because number one drunk with an ifac i'm no i may i'm probably less effective but i'm not going to endanger anyone you're just like hey buddy i think you need a parter kid he's like no no no give me give me your google said this goes around the neck but once again a stop the bleed class on an ifac is more likely to serve you or your community more than any gun ever will yeah yeah i think that's a great place i would say that if you are going down this pathway and you're looking to join openly leftist gun organizations there are several right john brown gun club socialist rifle association we've had those people on our show before be cautious when you're doing that and keep an eye on things because that

Starting point is 03:32:05 could be something that might get you into into trouble in in the long run so it's something yeah to be aware of yeah it might be good to just put a holder on joining a new organization until we're a few months into this thing coming up next year maybe have an idea about what kind of things might be safe and what kind of things might be less safe. Yeah, definitely. No, but none of that stops you from using Signal, building community, and learning how to use a firearm properly. Right. Meeting people, yes, and training with them,

Starting point is 03:32:35 and getting training, building proficiency, absolutely. All of that is legal and will remain legal. Just don't start... If anyone ever talks to you about let's make a militia don't do that it's time to leave that conversation right because among other things at this point there's a good chance they're the fbi if you live in michigan do not yeah yeah this podcast brought to you by cointelpro yeah yeah yeah yeah that's great but i mean it's a tough Oh, Intel Pro. Do you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:33:06 Yeah. That's great. But I mean, it's a tough challenge. And so the other thing you can do is also once you've got your basic proficiency up and you know that you are safe in terms of handling things. Let me throw this out there, too. It doesn't have to be any specific one. Although, remember, you're going into a space that may not be politically your comfortable place. A good place to build up skill is to go shoot matches competitions yeah for the most part it's business oriented you'll see you'll hear some stupid

Starting point is 03:33:30 comments here or there depending on what match you're at but the reality is you're not there for that you're there to get better with your gun on a course of fire that they put up for you pay your 10 bucks or 20 bucks learn how to shoot better in those conditions and that's another space to once the basic training's out of the way, don't go to a match to be training. Use the match to help increase your skill after you've gotten training. But those matches can be a place

Starting point is 03:33:51 to really help you out a lot. And there's a lot of them around, and those are easier to find than almost anything. Yep. Practice score is where you can look them up if you're into that kind of thing. Excellent. Thanks very much for joining us, Carl.

Starting point is 03:34:02 Do you want to very briefly plug your YouTube channel? Where can people find you? Well, sure. And thank you for having me on the show. It's always a treat. I really appreciate it. It's always great to be able to just hang out with you both. You should do it more often.

Starting point is 03:34:13 You can find my work. It's InRangeTV. You can find my website at InRange.TV. I'm distributed, decentralized across multiple platforms, the predominant one being YouTube. Cover everything from civil rights, history, human rights, to firearms, to from Old West flip-locks

Starting point is 03:34:30 up to the most modern machine guns across the channel. Some of it is instructional, some of it's history. And I've got a cool video dropping tomorrow, in fact. Well, tomorrow, based on when we're recording this, on the opium wars and how Britain and China's firearms technology discrepancy caused Hong Kong to be owned by Britain. That's the kind of stuff I do on my channel, so check that out.

Starting point is 03:34:51 And if you want to find matches that are going to be a place that is truly an inclusive space, we do run matches called Brutality Matches. You can find them at brutalitymatches.org. They're not monthly. We have run a couple of them across the country. But I can guarantee you that's a space you will feel comfortable because we make it that way. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks, Kel. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe.

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