It Could Happen Here - It Could Happen Here Weekly 174

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Starting point is 00:02:58 Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's James today and I'm joined by Jenny Keesden, who's a writer, activist and someone who's been in and out of Northeast Syria for a long time, working with the women's movement. And today we're going to be talking about the situation in North and East Syria since the fall of the Assad regime, some of the conflict that has been happening and a resistance of the SDF. Welcome to the show, Jenny. Hi there. Yeah, first of all, thanks so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here.

Starting point is 00:03:26 Yeah, you're welcome. Of course. So I think if we start off, people have been messaging me a lot about various platforms about the letter that Abdullah Ocalan wrote. And I don't want to address that in its entirety today because we've got something coming up on that. We're going to talk to some people from the Freedom for Abdul-Ajlan campaign. But I do want to use it as a jumping off point because I think it has reminded people, as we spoke about before the show, that North and East Syria exists and the SDF exists, which has been largely missing and like the legacy media reporting on Syria, but B, like there's been atrocious reporting on what it means for the SDF.

Starting point is 00:04:08 Even though there's a very clear answer to that. So for people who have, you know, been reading papers, which either just ignore the existence of the FDF entirely or speculate as to what they're going to do when they've given a very clear answer, could you explain to people like where this leaves the SDF? Yeah, sure. No, so thanks for that. And yeah, I've also been getting a lot of questions about O-Tan's letter. And I'm really glad to hear that you guys are going to do a program on it because Western media wants to report it in this way. It's very snazzy and this like bolts of the blue and something crazy has happened. And really, it's unfortunately, it has to actually be spoken about in a kind of more long-term and intelligent way that sets the context and like, yeah, puts that and makes things a bit more clear because it is something with a

Starting point is 00:04:53 background and it's connected to a lot of things. And of course, that whole political process that Ocalan's recent statement is a part of, is going to affect the situation here in North East Syria. Because the situation here a lot of the time depends on the actions of the Turkish state and on expansionism and aggression from there. And so as the political situation changes, it will affect that. What it is not is like a call or a statement that means that the SDF has to lay down their arms and start with this thing. This is for several reasons, absolutely not what it is. The main one of those being that the SDF is not and never has been the BKK. And that's something that they've tried many times over the years to make very clear.

Starting point is 00:05:36 But unfortunately, it has not always been heard and acknowledged. And so whatever this statement means, and you guys will go into that in your program, whatever it means for the PKK, for the situation in North Kurdistan, it's a different situation here. And so the SDF is in a moment of like a big question and a big change, but it's much more to do with what's been happening in Syria politically and to do with the government and the interim government, I had to, yeah, interim government that installed themselves here and the regime change, and of course the ongoing war and situation of invasion that they're facing.

Starting point is 00:06:11 So there's a lot of big questions for the SDF, but I think it's important right now that we don't kind of confuse and misunderstand with this sort of parallel process that's going on. Yeah, definitely. And I think if people are hearing this and you're new to the show, this is your first time hearing the sea of acronyms that is the Kurdish freedom movement. I could direct you to The Women's War, which is a series that Robert made. I have a book, but you can't read it yet. Still editing it. Or you

Starting point is 00:06:39 could listen to one of our numerous other if you search for Rojava or North East Syria, or Syria in our feed, I'm sure you'll find a lot to explain those acronyms to you. But yeah, we've had this situation, right, where since December, the situation in Syria has drastically changed. And we now have two state actors. Well, we have lots of state actors, we've always had lots of state actors intervening in Syria.

Starting point is 00:07:02 But we have this new state actor in the Syrian state, right? And I think people, if they're, you know, if they're like reading the New York Times or, God forbid, seeing Charles Lister, then they'll have a certain vision of this that sort of exempts the SDF. It sort of just ignores this whole area of Syria and says like, oh, well, the Syrian revolution has succeeded. I think we should address like, what has happened to the SDF to North and East Syria since the collapse of the Assad regime in December? Yeah, so obviously what's happened to North East Syria and North East Syria and to the SDF is very connected to the whole overall Syria process. And you're right, when you hear the reporting on it, I think lots of parts of it can get erased and kind of depending who's talking and what their angle is or whatever, there are a lot of things left out, not just the

Starting point is 00:07:54 Kurds in north of East Syria, but other minority ethnic groups or like women organizing across Syria, like all of these things. It's a very complex situation, which I won't pretend I can completely lay out and summarize for everyone in five minutes. But yeah, what you did have was the culmination, the end of a period and a massive change when, as you say, there was a regime change, there was a change of government and that happened with this like offensive sweeping down from Idlib to Damascus, succeeding in taking over the government in Damascus from the Assad family, which was the end of a 61 year reign, which caused absolute jubilation, it's safe to say, all across Syria. And that includes where I am in Rojm-e-Syria,

Starting point is 00:08:37 because anyway, just, yeah, people were very happy and celebrated, but also there were cities here. When you look at the map and you see this like semi-autonomous region, what you had to understand was that there were actually within the cities, there were neighborhoods and sections that were still under the Assad government. It wasn't as simple as like the whole city is in the autonomous administration. So here as well, there were still statues of Assad and people took to the streets and tore them down. And really close to actually where I'm recording this today, there's a roundabout where they took down the statue of Assad and it's been replaced by pictures of the martyrs, so people who have fallen fighting for the autonomy of the region here and fighting for their political system. So it's, you know, it's very, very beautiful.

Starting point is 00:09:21 People celebrated and were happy with a qualifier, with a very big qualifier. You know, you saw the jails opened as well and the flags went up, and yet it was a real moment of jubilation celebration. But unfortunately, the force which eventually succeeded in toppling Assad and installing itself as the now, as they're saying, the interim or transitional government of Syria, you know, we can say it was not one of the many like progressive democratic alternative forces that originally in the uprisings weakened the Assad government back in 2011. Since then things have changed and this isn't a

Starting point is 00:10:00 podcast directly about that, I'm sure you guys speak about it as well at other times, but instead what you have is HDS, who are kind of conglomerate militia of these different militia groups. There's another acronym for you there as well, James, I think. Yeah, three languages, acronyms. Pointing people to resources is always very useful. And they're a kind of mixed up amalgamation of different militias who were operating in Syria. And what's crucial to say about them is that they're, you know, their political background and perspective, a lot of people in these organizations are like, really, really similar, unfortunately, and all too familiar to the people here who fought against ISIS, the Islamic State, because they're coming from similar backgrounds and also to Al Qaeda and the organizations who were kind of the Syrian branches of Al Qaeda. But like, I've played a really direct role in founding HTS. And they want to now sort of put on a new face, put on a suit, go out and shake the

Starting point is 00:10:59 world's head and become world statesmen and become the government, which unfortunately it looks like all of our governments are all too willing to very quickly accept. And we'll get in a minute we can talk a bit specifically about the roles and almost your listeners are in the States and that the American government has been playing here. But yeah, so there's a big qualifier on how much people are celebrating because of the very dodgy history and the real threat that HCS's politics holds, unfortunately, particularly for ethnic minorities and women. Yeah. And they're establishing their power and it's by no means a kind of nonviolent or peaceful process.

Starting point is 00:11:38 And there's a lot of tensions flaring up and a lot of problems. However, yes, it is the case that in a lot of Syria, the majority of Syria outright like warfare on the ground has for now stopped because this one group have taken power. And so we're in a different moment. We're in a different kind of process. So what's different up here? What's different up in the north and east and what's not being discussed as much. And the point that I'm often trying to make when I'm trying to write articles and doing interviews at the moment is that like actually the war in the whole of Syria has not completely stopped. Yeah very much so. Mostly yes we can say in most regions but significantly here in

Starting point is 00:12:15 North and East Syria it's not just that there is still classes or flare-ups between different groups like there might be in other regions there is like a full-scale invasion, a ground invasion with air support that has also been going on. And that was timed. Where does that come from? Like, what is that one? Does that look like this is another group, another three letter acronym for you? But the important thing to understand is that this offensive was tied to coincide with the

Starting point is 00:12:43 HCS takeover. HCS also has a lot of links with the Turkish state and I wouldn't, I personally would not go so far as to say that that government is a Turkish public government or that the relationship is that directs, but there is a relationship there and what you saw when they kind of successfully went on the offensive was at the same time other armed groups which operate are kind of loosely affiliated and mostly operating on a mercenary sort of paid basis rather than being kind of ideologically driven or whatever but are affiliated under the name the SNA, the Syrian National Army, which is

Starting point is 00:13:18 even more confusing because they're not and were never the National Army of Syria. were never the National Army of Syria. Yeah, yeah. What they are is, yeah, these paid militias, which, yeah, we can describe, you might describe as jihadist gangs, mercenaries, etc, etc. And it kind of depends, it's like a mix of different forces. Yeah. What's very important there is the very close relationship that they have with the Turkish state.

Starting point is 00:13:40 Essentially, the Turkish government has made the choice that it wants to continue its aggression and its expansionism on North and East Syria and rather than immediately sending their own army they instead pay and fund and direct and support these militias who are also operating for their own benefit yes but the relationship between them their actions right now in the Turkish state is much more direct so at at the same time as you have this sweep to the south that caused the regime change in Syria, heading to the east, so to originally the region of Llepa, followed by the city of Mindaj in the region around there, you have this onslaught from the SA. And that is what the SDF, who you originally mentioned, are

Starting point is 00:14:20 currently up against. And that's the situation that we're in and it's still ongoing. It's very much not stopped, it's still very much like hot engagement and hot fighting that is happening. Yeah and like sometimes to introduce another acronym we use like TFSA to refer to some of those groups like the Turkish Free Syrian Army and that they're essentially an operation by a Turkish state to co-opt what was initially a democratic grassroots revolution more than a decade ago. And like, if you haven't been following, I suppose, it would be easy to be confused by this, but the SNA have not been backwards in

Starting point is 00:14:54 documenting their war crimes in the advance toward, I guess their advance westwards towards the Euphrates and even over the Euphrates. And there have been some really horrible things. Some of them, like I've shared online, if people wanna, they're not hard to find, if you wanna find them, but I'm not gonna put them right in front of you because they're horrible.

Starting point is 00:15:13 And as the SNA have advanced, they've reached a couple of locations that are very crucial, right? And that's where they've been kind of stopped by the SDF. Because the SDF haven't been in like such a large sale conflict for the last couple of years. They've of course been fighting against like Islamic State splinter cells and to a degree the SNA but like the SDF has modernized a lot more than the SNA have I guess in the past few years right. They've embraced the use of first person view drones,

Starting point is 00:15:42 they've even shot down several Turkish biraktar drones which they previously, if they have the ability to do it then they weren't able to use that ability until very recently. So like they, in a sense, their resistance has been very impressive, right, because we have on the one hand it's the second largest army in NATO giving its its full support to the SNA. And on the other hand, we have the FDF, which is in theory a US partner force, right? There are US bases still in Syria. There are US troops still in Syria.

Starting point is 00:16:14 Well, yeah. So now? But like, I mean, I remember when I was in Rojava in October of 2023, the US shot down a birectile drone over a US base. And then it did not shoot down the dozens of other birectile drones that were bombing the cities. The city that you're in right now, the city that I was in, other cities. I met a mother who had lost her 14-year-old son to one of these drone bombings. Really like horrific and just cruel bombing of very clearly civilian targets. So like the U S is there, but they're not doing anything to help supposedly their friends, supposedly their partners.

Starting point is 00:16:55 And like every interview I conducted began with like five minutes of me being asked why the Americans weren't being friends when the SDF had been friends to them in a battle against ISIS. And like, that's not something I have a good explanation for other than like, I think most Kurdish people can understand the difference between people and government and people and state. And like, I might have a belief, but it is not the same as the government of the US. So can you explain the role of the US here? Because people will be very confused, right? And I think it's easy to sort of

Starting point is 00:17:26 simplify this as like America is in Syria for oil, but there's a little bit more to it than that, right? Yeah, absolutely. And again, it's such a big question, and it's a question of how far back do you go, how far do you zoom out, because in both senses, as you keep moving back from today, the plot kind of thickens. And as you, you know, if you imagine if you're looking at the Google Maps of Syria, and then you click the button that takes you out and out, and the map gets wider and wider. The story kind of fills itself in as well, like that things make more sense when they are put in that context. Yeah. And I think a good place to start maybe is, yeah, this consistent for a long

Starting point is 00:18:13 time, like American attitude to this whole region, not just Syria, which is to play, yeah, to play very carefully to your advantage and make alliances where it suits you and continue them where it suits you and not stick to them where it doesn't. One aspect of that is the resources, which goes further than just oil is also gas and is also the resource of the space to create a trade route. That's a really important question in the Middle East at the moment. And it's one of the reasons that Kurdistan is such an important place politically. A lot of these lines of potential trade routes and these kind of lines of power and money,

Starting point is 00:18:57 they intersect and they cross over here. So there are all these different resources at play. And I think another thing that's important to look at is that, yeah, the US, as the US government, as you put it, as distinct from the citizens in any way, doesn't just go into this blind and kind of react day by day. It's not like a reactive force in the world. The US government is, and would proudly announce, I think as well, the previous thing on this one point, that they are, no matter who the administration is and where it's politically leading at the time,

Starting point is 00:19:28 a very pro-Axis force. They have a plan where that they go and they try and put it into practice. Famously, historically and very intensely, a lot of that has played out in the Middle East because of the Middle East's position in the world, resources and the role that it's played in kind of who gets to be the big dog in the world over the years and throughout history. It's become, for those various reasons, very important. And so, yeah, again, without its many podcasts of its own, and I'm sure you are making them, so I won't try and like summarize it, but I think you can't talk about America's role in Syria and the Middle East in general without mentioning like Israel and the role the Israeli

Starting point is 00:20:18 state plays for foreign with America. And things like, you know, we're all sort of following and for you guys following more closely, because we're all following the current American administration and leadership and what's been coming out of there. And sometimes you think like, God, is it just nuts? And when you look at something like, you know, the video for like the new Gaza that they're gonna make, for example, Trump's Gaza, whatever that was. Yeah, Gaza by the sea. Yeah, so I mean, it makes it sick.

Starting point is 00:20:48 And then you're also not sure if it's serious or if it's mad, but I think unfortunately it's actually, yeah, it's quite an intelligent play. And what it speaks to that is relevant to what I'm saying here is this kind of long-term plan, right, that annihilate a region to the best of your ability so that you can move in and develop it is a tried and tested method of many, many governance. And America's not the only one. But at the moment we're at a kind of crucial moment in the Middle East when one sort of wall of forces are trying to greatly reduce the role and power of some others so that they can put their plan into place and so that they can, yeah, so they can make money, you know,

Starting point is 00:21:32 it's always worth following money and where development can be made and where trade routes can be made. And so what happened, the timing of the regime change that we've just discussed, the timing of HDS being able to move into Damascus and take it over, it's no coincidence that it came after a shift in the, it's really like, genocidal war on Gaza and after what the then military action they were taking against Hezbollah in Lebanon, which they felt then had up to a point achieved what they wanted to achieve, and then things kind of moved to Syria, right? So I'm not saying that the new government has been sponsored by that at all. I think there's a huge amount of tension there, but the withdrawal of, like the weakening

Starting point is 00:22:14 and or withdrawal of forces like Iran and Hezbollah here played a huge role with them being able to establish themselves as a government. So that is also something that's not know, that's not directly necessarily every step sort of kind of puppeteered by the US at all, but it is a part of the politics that the US has had a long historical influence on and that it backs and that it's in conversation is in the whole of the Middle East. It's this kind of greater Middle East plan, this vision for it, if you will. And the other aspect that I think is important to talk about is the US's

Starting point is 00:22:49 relationship with North and East Syria specifically. You mentioned there like, you know, this like supposed friendship with, we can say the like friendship with the Kurds as people will refer to it, or the alliance and coalition between the SDF and the US, which was sort of most famous and most well known during the fight against ISIS. When the international coalition was spearheaded by America, was bombing and providing air support for the SDF, as they called it, the boots on the ground, the actual ground force that could go and take character back from ISIS, which yes, did look like a kind of, it looked like a friendship, but I think from both sides, everyone always knew that that was a tactical alliance, perhaps, perhaps a strategic alliance at best, we can say.

Starting point is 00:23:39 Yeah. But I think that the US has not got a history of operating on a basis of like friendship or of that kind of commitment to the forces it works with. And I love a lot of history and modern recent history can attest to that. And from the side of people here, I think it's really important to say that, yeah, people were angry and that, you know, what you heard there, you were talking about interviewing people and then kind of being like, what are they doing? Like we, we fought a war with them partly on their behalf, like, and then they desert us.

Starting point is 00:24:08 Yes, people are angry, but the more kind of politically engaged someone is, sort of moving up that scale, I think the less faith they ever had in the US. Yeah. So, and now you've got the US kind of muttering about withdrawing their troops from Syria, right? Yeah. And it's dejau, because they said this before, I was actually here when they said this before, back in 2019 I also happened to be in North East Syria and it was, if I'm not wrong, it was Trump again, if I've turned around.

Starting point is 00:24:38 Yeah it was. And they said we're withdrawing our forces from Syria, did they actually withdraw? Not exactly, no, you still saw them driving around in big cars, mostly right next to the oil fields. It was a bit, it was almost tomical. Sort of like when part, when part next to the oil fields. But that withdrawal was symbolic. That withdrawal was, they withdrew from bases right on the border with Turkey, which lies just to the north of Syria and as such just next to north of East Syria for anyone without the map immediately in their head. And they announced it very,

Starting point is 00:25:11 very clearly and very publicly. And so it was a kind of, it was a green flag to say to Turkey, only come, yeah, we're not going to stop you. We're not going to, because what you don't want to do is hit an American by accident. As you gave the example, they, you know, they brought down a drone because it was over an American base, not because it was bombing civilians nearby, which dozens of other were. And so you had that kind of symbolic withdrawal, which led to in 2019, was one of the times that Turkey has annexed a section, essentially annexed a section of Syria, North and East Syria under the remit of the Autonomous Administration, but nonetheless still technically Syrian territory.

Starting point is 00:25:47 And in that time it was Serekhaniye and Giresipi, which people may have heard of. And so that was the green flag to Turkey to take that step. And at that time, I'll maybe share, it's a lot of political stuff, a lot of acronyms, a lot of all this, and maybe I'll just share a wee anecdote. Yeah. At that time when they made the announcement, they were going to leave people organized a march to an American base. And I was here at the time and I joined it with some of the women's organizations.

Starting point is 00:26:16 It was the most amazing day. Like I sort of went home and wrote this massive journal entity because I've already been here for a very long time, but my mind was still a bit blown by it. And for one thing, it was such an example of like how the social movement here works, and what society is like and all the complexities, because yeah, a lot of people here are very wedded to the liberatory, progressive, grassroots, democratic, women's freedom, ecological movement that I'm sure you've spoken about in your programs on Rosh Ava, and thousands and thousands of people completely take ownership of that and see themselves in that and are the driving force of that. Obviously, that doesn't mean every single person here is 100% sold on government at all.

Starting point is 00:26:58 Yeah, some of them are just trying to get on with life. Some of them are just trying to get on with life. Some of them are, you know, I mean, if you talk about women's freedom, there's always going to be a few men who are a bit like, what does this mean for me? What do I have to give up? So it would be silly. I've encountered that. It would be silly and new topics to say that everyone's taught we sold. However, nobody wants to get invaded by one of the largest armies in NATO.

Starting point is 00:27:19 So you have this sort of actually even broader than usual kind of coming together, like groups from the sort of like tribal clan structures here that are still like a really political force. And that don't, you know, have a kind of uneasy truth and sort of slowly learning each other relationship with the movement, you can say. But they really came out in force as well, as well as like the Kurdish movement, as well as like lots of different ethnic groups. And we marched and to be honest, I didn't know we were going to an American base. A lot of people didn't.

Starting point is 00:27:52 It was quite a confusing day because I think they didn't want to announce things too widely until they got there. Yeah. And we went and did this kind of, yeah, they like read out a letter symbolically, I think, and some of the Arabic community leaders went up to the base and we the majority of people There's like hundreds of hundreds of people in this crowd and they stayed back at a distance and I found out later that that is Because the American soldiers said if too big a group of people come close We will like we will open fire like that that information was given. Yeah, I don't know what they were scared Oh, you know, it's like like any Mart here the people in the front row are always grannies.

Starting point is 00:28:25 Yeah, yeah, it's old ladies. It's no different on that day. I mean, they're a bit scary to be said. I think that it's a bit embarrassing if the American soldiers were scared of them, but that's not for me to judge. But while we were there by pure chance, a fleet of not tanks, but big armored cars rolled in. by like pure chance a fleet of not tanks but big armored cars rolled in and there was just this moment that I really clearly remember just kind of pause and they rolled through the crowd and the

Starting point is 00:28:53 crowd parted and turned and looked and nobody teared or clapped obviously there was no sense of oh it's the Americans right yeah but Yeah. But nobody sort of threw, you know, threw anything or threw insults or chanted anything negative either. There was just this stillness and this really palpable energy of this kind of sense of people looking at, you know, obviously they're just these soldiers that happened to be driving these trucks, but they really symbolized something more than that and people were kind of looking sort of insisting that you looked them in the eye saying like hey if anyone owes anyone you owe us after everything we fought for and everything we've done yeah 13,000

Starting point is 00:29:34 martyrs if they were called exactly exactly yeah so many people lost in the fight against Isis and so much like blood and sweat and tears given and there was just yeah this palpable sense of like, at least have the decency to kind of look at us and admit what you're doing, because you know what you're doing. Yeah. And it really, yeah, it really felt it was very kind of moving at the time. And it I feel like it's very symbolic into politics here, how, you know, someone asked me the other day, what was it like for people to rely on America, knowing that they betrayed them? And I said, well, they didn't. They never relied on them.

Starting point is 00:30:08 Yeah, no one was relying on America. Yeah. But you know, there's that kind of the expectation of at least some sense of dignity, that is a very important concept for people here, dignity. And yeah, so yeah, that is, I always that that yeah say again. I know it's confusing that was five Five and a half years ago now. Yeah, and now you've got this sort of is history repeating itself They're talking about when the troops have I think it's important to understand what that means What that means is they're talking about potentially giving a green flag for more military aggression

Starting point is 00:30:40 And I think they kind of haven't decided yet. It's a really gonna do it and and there's a lot of things in the balance. And in terms of, I'll just say one more thing, and it's out of the gets a bit long, in terms of like the plan for Syria and America's role, like this is my opinion. I can't say for sure that this is the definite reality, but my understanding in the situation is that once again, people here in this movement are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. And the rock and the hard place now looks like you've got the new government that set itself up in Damascus, HBS, and their goal, if they can wangle it and get the outside and international support is to build your sort of socially at least if not politically the model is going to look a bit like Afghanistan and the Taliban right like from the signs of yeah yeah changes they've made to the constitution incidents of like violence sectarianism and feminicide have been rising attacks they've already made on women's

Starting point is 00:31:41 rights like very rapidly and things that have been put in like the president legally has to be a Muslim, all of this stuff. That's sort of their plan. But on the other hand, I think if you kind of let the American government lose on Syria to build up its plan at the moment, I think they are seeing an opportunity to use this kind of formula from Iraq into their space. Yeah. And I think they want to create this sort of very open to capital's markets, which creates kind of space in which the north and east area with majority, though not entirely Kurdish, can sort of play this role that the Kurdistan region of Iraq has played. Yeah, like I don't know what you call it, like a safe conduit to capital. Like it's a very stark difference if people haven't traveled in that part of Yeah, I don't know what you call it, like a safe conduit to capital.

Starting point is 00:32:25 It's a very stark difference if people haven't traveled in that part of the world to be in Howler or Abil and then to cross into Rojava. You can see the impact that a decade of that being the safe place to have your oil company headquarters has had on the Kedstar Regional Government. Yeah. I'm going to move on before we finish up. I want to talk about the current manifestation of resistance, right, specifically at Tishrin Dam, because that's something that A has been reported on and B, like it mirrors what you saw in 2019 and that like it's not just a

Starting point is 00:33:12 military resistance, right? But also like a civil society resistance. Can you explain, maybe if people have seen anything, they've seen that horrible video of people dancing and then SNA drones dropping a mortar bomb right in the middle of them. But can you explain how we got there? Yeah, of course. Great. I'm glad you asked about that because in some sense, there is some horrible stuff in there, but this is the beautiful bit.

Starting point is 00:33:36 This is the great bit, the bit that we should be talking about at the moment. So yeah, the Tishin Dam is a big hydroelectric facility that is on the Euphrates River. If you look at a map of Syria, Euphrates is kind of in the middle of the top. And that is the region roughly where this offensive that we spoke about of the Turkish funded militias, which has come from the west across to the east, at times closer and further away from the river and currently like a few kilometers away that's where that offensive has been stopped by the BSTA and cannot progress any further despite an intensive air support from Turkey and they're sort of increasingly putting

Starting point is 00:34:17 pressure on that but it hasn't got anywhere. But it's close right you know it's not too far away and people are following the news and what's right on the other side if you get across the river there, there's the dam and then there's a bridge further to the north, the Kyrgyzstan bridge, that's similarly kind of crucial. And if you get across the river, you're not far away at all from the city of Kibani, which I'm sure most of your lessons will have heard of. This is massively important symbol of anti-fascist resistance. It was one of the ignition points of the revolution for the social movement here. And it was really of the ignition points of the revolution for the social

Starting point is 00:34:45 movement here, and it was really important to fight against ISIS. And I think it's safe to say that Turkey via the SNA had its eye on Kobani Ege and that this is in fact an attack on Kobani, which has been kind of held back. And so the dam is important symbolically as this strategic river crossing, it's this kind of no pass around, like they will not pass moment. It's also important logistically, like for the society here, because it's a hydroelectric facility, it supplies electricity, it helps with the supply of water for various reasons for thousands and thousands of people. It's now out of action.

Starting point is 00:35:21 It might go without saying, but when you're in the middle of an active war zone, you can't keep running a place like that. So that is directly attacking and impacting the society and normal communities here. And so, yeah, it's no wonder that those normal communities and that society always feel very, very implicated and are kind of ready to stand up and defend themselves. It's not as, yeah, the military assault is not separate from the society here. The society is also under attack indirectly, attacks on infrastructure such as that, and directly by drone strikes on many, many civilian targets, unfortunately. Yeah. In recent times, that has increased,

Starting point is 00:36:00 particularly in villages surrounding Bani, and you see kids also hospitalized and killed as a part of that. So on the 8th of January what began was that what they call a convoy like a big big trek of different vehicles got together and arranged and organized from different towns across North of East Syria to go to Kishin Dam this very like, this symbol, this very clear like important physical location and also very symbolic thing where war has also been fought before. There's also in previous campaigns against ISIS, for example, there was fighting in the region. So people feel like, you know, their sons and daughters have fought for Tisht-in-River crossing before.

Starting point is 00:36:41 It's still, you know, it's there in the historical memory as well. Yeah. And people went and since then, which is almost exactly two months, as we're recording this, we're right around the two months anniversary month, there's been a constant presence there, a protest on the dam. And that's got several different kind of aspects to it. It is mostly to raise the voices and raise awareness and make visible what's happening. And yeah, if it's hard to understand why like hundreds of people would go from their homes to somewhere that is closer to the active fighting to somewhere that's in a very unstable region, like yeah, first of all, you have to understand that nowhere in North East Syria is actually safe. Like in Kamas of the city where I am, there's been residential buildings, bombs dropped on them from

Starting point is 00:37:24 drones, like within the last couple of months as well. It's not like, there's this sense of safety wherever you are, the difference is a sense of doing something about it and of standing together and coming together in these like amazingly brave and amazingly creative ways that only the communities of North Nisiria can manage. So yes, unfortunately during these two months, there have consistently been airstrikes on the dam and I don't have the exact statistics and you wouldn't necessarily get an honest answer about how many of them have come directly

Starting point is 00:37:55 from Turkey and how many have come from SNA drones. But the SNA drones are paid for by the Turkish state anyway. So at the end of the day, yeah, morally, how much difference does it make? Yeah, it's just a pass through. They have attacked the civil protests there. And up until now, I believe 25 civilians have been killed and many more than that hospitalized. But despite this, and in the shadow of this with the most beautiful defiance, that protest has continued. And what the videos that maybe don't get shared as much or shared enough that people might not have seen are also these images, you know, which are very, I can attest, are very real because I went there myself a few weeks ago, which is everybody getting out and dancing at the slightest opportunity or

Starting point is 00:38:39 slightest excuse or lack of an excuse. And the most amazing art that's been made, like paintings of the people who've been killed or as they would say here, fallen martyr in these two months. There's been theatre, like theatre performed using the bits of the bombed out cars that were bombed just a few days before as props to kind of like tell the story of what's been happening. Like the most like creative things, also statements for the press and all your different organizations show up. So like the organized youth show up as the youth and obviously the women's organizations as women saying like, you know, this is our revolution.

Starting point is 00:39:18 This is our community and we know what it looks like when it gets occupied. We're not just going to stand by and see it happen again. It's our land, it's our water, and it's our kids, is the refrain that kind of gets repeated over and over again. And of course, they're there in solidarity as well with the SDF themselves, with the military force. It would be crazy if they weren't, because, yeah, they are also embedded in their communities.

Starting point is 00:39:40 No, they're not extracted from the society the way that most kind of state armies are. So,, the situation at Tehran is still ongoing. And when I was there, it was it really was the most amazing experience. There were bombings while I was there. And tragically, one of the people I got to know there, he was a journalist, his name was Egyd Roj. Just less than two weeks after I got back, I found out that he's also been killed in another drone strike. So it was, yeah, it's very, very, just kind of, it doesn't, it doesn't stop. The aggression doesn't stop, but nonetheless, people kind of coming together to resist it doesn't stop either. And once I'd been there, it seemed a lot less crazy or hard to imagine that people would come together around it

Starting point is 00:40:25 because you see like the immense power that it has and you see that how everyone here has lost someone though, like the vast majority of people here have lost members of their family. You said yourself 13,000 fallen in the fight against ISIS alone. And since then, like war one way or another has been going on. So people know what loss means already. They've already lost, but they're not going to let that make them step back. They're going to do their fallen loved ones justice and continue to stand up in their

Starting point is 00:40:53 name. And yeah, it's a very big thing, but it's really powerful when you see it in person and in all its kind of humanity and humor and joy despite the situation. Yeah, I know that is a very unique thing to Kurdistan and the Kurdish freedom movement. It's a sort of joy. I mean, I've been, it's very similar in Burma actually, where they also do, they love to dance in a war. And like, it is one of the things that I think like the joy is hard to explain. I know we're sort of running low on time here, but I just like when people hear Syria and to extent when they hear Myanmar, they'll think of wars,

Starting point is 00:41:30 but like you should also think about all the people who exist outside of the conflict or who don't exist outside of it, that's the wrong word, but who are not fighting at the front line. Like the experience of revolution is very joyful one, even amidst very difficult times. And it's difficult to explain it if you haven't experienced it because it sounds so juxtaposed, but it isn't necessarily.

Starting point is 00:41:57 Like I have actually really fond memories of meeting Kurdish people coming into the United States in the mountains at the time when the United States was detaining people outdoors in very difficult conditions and like dancing with them there at a time when like it was miserable. The ability to salvage joy. It gives you a sense of sovereignty, I suppose, and I can understand why that's such an important part of the Kurdish freedom movement when every expression of Kurdish identity has been suppressed for so long. Like the ability to seize your moments, what James C. Scott would call like

Starting point is 00:42:29 little acts, small acts of resistance. Like it's important. It's more important that people understand. And if you're understanding it from a Western military doctrine, it doesn't fit. But that's because you're using the wrong framework. Yeah, exactly. Jenny, if people are interested in following your work about this, or perhaps they're interested in doing what they can to support the revolution and what is like a challenging time, a very, very changing time, how can they do both those things?

Starting point is 00:42:58 Yes. So, well, if they are interested in following the sort of updates and so on that I've been doing. I've got Instagram and TikTok channels which are both at Jay Keesden. I'm assuming you can stick that written form somewhere. Yeah we'll put it in the show notes. And Telegram channel as well if people find it easier to sort of get, yeah that's just the most condensed way to kind of download information videos or whatever which you can find under the same name. And there's also links to it on the on Instagram, TikTok. And on there, we've got a WeLink tree that has some suggestions for if people want to support like ways to donate say to the Kurdish red present and stuff like that. And then specifically, yeah, I mean, there is a lot that

Starting point is 00:43:42 people can do and whatever it is, it all starts with getting more, I wouldn't say informed, I would say getting more connected, right? So getting informed is a part of that, but not just in the sense of information learning, like it's also connecting with like the feeling of things here and why it's become so important to so many people across the world, not just people from here. Yeah. And the more we learn about that, the more we'll start to see like how we can be a friend to the movement here and where, how our role can fit. And I know that there are specifically in America, a couple of organizations.

Starting point is 00:44:16 Is it that Debbie Bookchin has been really prominent in organizing one of them? Yeah, Emergency Committee for Rojava. Emergency Committee for Rojava. That's the one. Yeah. Emergency committee for Rojava. Emergency committee for Rojava. That's the one. Yeah. And you had emergency in there somewhere. That's definitely worth looking up and following a lot of the work that they do. And you also got like think tanks like the Kurdish peace institute that

Starting point is 00:44:35 did kind of lobbying and so yeah, there are some, there is some stuff, uh, from coming from the United States as well. Um, but I think, yeah, the more people get a chance to kind of learn about stuff here and see the connection and be able to see and find themselves in it. And I think that's got a lot to do with what you were just speaking about there. You put it so well, I wouldn't extend it much more. But yeah, like people here, it's really, there's always war happening and always war kind of filing on top of you. But that's never what it's about.

Starting point is 00:45:05 The question is always what are you fighting for and what are you fighting to defend? And what would you be doing if there was no war? Everyone here will always say if there was no war, we'd still have enough work to do with all the really, like, what's that word, ambitious, like social transformation that people here are really committed to. There's enough going on and it's very big and as you put it, it's very beautiful and very joyful. And so that's, yeah, that's the bit that I encourage people to try and learn more about because that's the bit that makes you stay and makes people like me stick around for years finding out more and more and making friends and getting closer and

Starting point is 00:45:37 closer to the communities here. Yeah, I think that's a very good way to put it. So yeah, I'd encourage people to do all that. Thank you so much for your time, Jenny. I know it's late there, but we really appreciate you joining us today. And thank you so much. Cheers. Is this a good time? It's me, Dilla Mulaney, and my dear friend Joe Locke from Heartstopper and Agatha All Along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, The Dylan Hour. It's musical mayhem and it is going to be so much fun. I like a man.

Starting point is 00:46:20 You like a man. What do I like, Joe? You like a man too. We often- We have quite a similar... There's some cross-pollination happening in here. Not like... No! Have we? No.

Starting point is 00:46:30 No. Not yet. Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls, gays and theys to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world and what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dillon Hour on the iHeartRadio app,

Starting point is 00:46:46 Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Love ya. Prohibition. It's no secret that banning alcohol didn't stop people from living it up in the 1920s. When we're five years into Prohibition, the government is starting to go, okay, this isn't working.

Starting point is 00:47:03 In fact, you might even say it backfired spectacularly. I'm Ed Helms, and on season three of my podcast, Snafu, we're taking you back to the 1920s and the tale of Formula 6. Because what you probably don't know about Prohibition is that American citizens were dying in massive numbers due to poisoned liquor, and all along, an unlikely duo was trying desperately to stop the corruption behind it.

Starting point is 00:47:29 They were like superhero crusaders turning the page on a system that didn't work, wasn't fair, and was corrupt. So how did prohibitions war on alcohol go so off the rails that the government wound up poisoning its own people. To find out, listen and subscribe to Snafu on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? How? Goes lower? From Blumhouse TV, iHeart Podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all-new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend.

Starting point is 00:48:10 And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi. And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Pillow talk. The most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out of his element hero as he engages in a series of ill-conceived investigative hookups.

Starting point is 00:48:31 Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. And as I was about to learn, no amount of showering can wash your hands of a bad hookup. Now, take a big whiff my brah. Listen to the hookup on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey kids it's me Kevin Smith and it's me Harley Quinn Smith. That's my daughter man who my wife has always said is just a beardless d***less version of me and that's the name of our podcast, Beardless D***less Me. I'm the old one.

Starting point is 00:49:06 I'm the young one. And every week we try to make each other laugh really hard. Sounds innocent, doesn't it? A lot of cussing, a lot of bad language. It's for adults only. Or listen to it with your kid. It could be a family show. We're not quite sure.

Starting point is 00:49:17 We're still figuring it out. It's a work in progress. Listen to Beardless D***less Me on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever. You get your podcast. Hello and welcome to It Could Happen Here. It's time to finally continue our journey through Latin American anarchism. So far, we've covered almost every country in Latin America at this point, including Peru, Chile, Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Central America, the countries of the former Gran Colombia like Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia

Starting point is 00:49:52 and also Cuba and a few other islands in the Caribbean. And now before we get to the really big history that I've kind of been saving as the finale that is anarchism in Mexico, we're going to be talking about the anarchist movement in Uruguay. So my name is Andrew Sage. You can find me on YouTube as Andrewism. And you can also find the bulk of the research for today's episode in Angel Capulete's aptly titled Anarchism in Latin America. I'm joined today by James. It's me again. And it's been a while. Yeah, it has been a while.

Starting point is 00:50:32 Nice to be back. Great to be back in conversation. Yeah. So before we could really get into the history of anarchism in Uruguay, I probably should give some context as to how Uruguay became Uruguay. And well my source for this history is primarily the Encyclopedia Britannica. So before the whole scourge of European colonialism, what is now known as Uruguay supported a population of about 5,000 to 10,000 people, which were organized in semi-nomadic groups. You had

Starting point is 00:51:06 the Charoer, the Chana and the Kwarani Indians primarily. So the first European visits took place first in 1516 and they weren't particularly successful or of interest. Spain was looking for gold and looking for silver, that was their incentive for colonisation at the time and they didn't see any of that so they didn't have much motivation to stick around. It was until the 1620s over a century later that Jesuit and Franciscan missionaries set up religious settlements, but unfortunately by then Uruguay's native population had already begun to collapse. Thousands of people were

Starting point is 00:51:46 succumbing to European diseases that they had no immunity to. A couple centuries later, in 1800, Uruguay continued along with a very small population. At this point it was about 30,000 people in total and a third of their population lived in the capital city of Montefideo. Another third of their population were African slaves who worked on ranches, and meat processing plants, and as domestic servants. Meanwhile, the elite, whether they be wealthy traders, bankers, or landowners, mostly traced their roots to Catalonia, the Basque Country, the Canary Islands, and other parts of Spain.

Starting point is 00:52:25 We get into 1810 when a lot of the Latin American countries had been fighting for their independence but Osiris Argentino was among them. But while Argentino was fighting for its independence Montevideo was of royalist stronghold backed by the Spanish military and naval forces. On the countryside it was a different story though. Uruguay's greatest independence hero kind of came out of that space. His name was Jose Gervasio Artigas and he originally led a Spanish cavalry unit but eventually turned against the crown in 1811 and rallied an army of rural fighters,

Starting point is 00:53:05 freed African slaves and anti-royalist leaders from Montevideo. So with the backing from Buenos Aires, his forces were able to score key victories and eventually oust the Spanish. But Artigas had much bigger ambitions. He wanted a confederation of provinces that resisted the dominance of Buenos Aires. In fact, he wanted Montevideo to become the centre of a rival confederation. As prior to Argentina becoming Argentina, it was sort of a loose confederation centred in Buenos Aires.

Starting point is 00:53:39 Artigas' ideas also included things like redistributing the land to freed slaves and poor Uruguayans, which made him obviously very popular among the poor and very much a threat to the elite. Eventually he was forced into exile because he made some enemies that basically sat on their hands as the Portuguese Brazilian forces invaded and took over the region. Despite his exile though the fight really wasn't over. After the occupation which was often called Brazilianization, it was resisted very heavily by locals and exiles. And of course Argentina which had become some sort of a rival power to Brazil in the region, it saw Brazil's influence in Uruguay as a threat.

Starting point is 00:54:27 So eventually one of Artigas's exile officers, a guy named Juan Antonio Lavallier, would lead a force that would cross the river and reclaim Uruguay. The fight would end in a steel meet and then British diplomats would step in because of course the British had their own interests in the region. But eventually in 1828 a treaty was signed officially creating Uruguay as an independent nation. A buffer state between Argentina and Brazil. In 1830 Uruguay's first constitution was ratified and at the time the country had a population

Starting point is 00:55:04 of just 74,000 people. All that war kind of left the country in ruins. A lot of the once wealthy colonial families were devastated, the cattle numbers had plummeted and the threat of both Argentina and Brazil still persisted despite the treaty had been signed. So then the nation ended up being split into two rival factions. You had the faction that was led by Uruguay's first president and then you had the faction that was led by Uruguay's second president.

Starting point is 00:55:38 And they became fierce rivals that ignited a civil war known as the Guerra Grande or Great War. And to make a long story short, the first president's supporters became known as the Colorado Party and they controlled one TV. And the second president supporters became known as the White Party or the Blanco Party and they dominated the countryside. And so they were a fight from time to time, each side being backed by different parties. The Blancos were backed by Argentina, the Colorado's were backed by France and England and then eventually Brazil.

Starting point is 00:56:13 And after about a decade of war, there was still no clear victory as to who came out of it as a success in state. The interior of the country was devastated, government was bankrupt, its very existence as an independent nation came into doubt. And the divisions between the people who backed either party became more stark than ever. Eventually the Colorado's were able to force the Blancos out of power thanks to their backing by Brazil and that move ended up alarming Paraguay who was also afraid of Brazil's influence. So Paraguay ended up launching what became known as the War of the Triple Alliance which is something

Starting point is 00:56:57 I covered in the episode on Paraguayan Anarchism. Eventually after getting out of the civil wars and all these disputes and foreign powers meddling in suffice, we have the situation that Uruguay found itself in in the 19th century. A situation that waves of immigrants and also anarchism would find themselves in. The Radicalism of the 19th Century So Capuletti identifies a few of the ugly forces that shaped Uruguay in radicalism. Before anarchism and syndicalism, the first factor shaping the radical landscape in Uruguay's 18th century was Utopian Socialism. It came to Uruguay with Eugenio Tandonet in 1844 and he was a French Utopian Socialist and follower of Charles Freer who was one of the founders of Utopian Socialism.

Starting point is 00:57:57 That whole milieu advocated for a reconstruction of society based on communal associations of producers known as phalanges. And then with their influence afterwards came the next force of influence, the Italian migrants who had fought in the civil war. These were Republicans who eventually became socialists. And in the next influence was the mutualist movement that was inspired by Proudhon in the 1870s. First arising in Uruguay among artisans and workers and establishing mutual aid societies

Starting point is 00:58:32 to meet people's needs. A friend of Pedro's of Proudhon himself, a guy named José Ernesto Gilbert, had actually moved to Montevideo for a bit after being exiled from France. And while I don't think he did anything too actively political, he did pursue botanical studies in Uruguay and I believe there was some kind of creature named after him. So it's a fun fact. Finally as we exit the 19th century, you had of course the rise of unions and internationalist organizations. Exit the 19th century, you had of course the rise of unions and internationalist organisations. In the 1870s and 1880s, you had fights for workers rights, you had the struggle for an

Starting point is 00:59:11 international socialism, and you have what Capulete identifies as a Uruguayan section of the Asociación Internacional de Trabajadores, which was established in 1872 and engaged in a public action in 1875 that had some 2000 attendees. They established something of a manifesto where one line had asked, who better and of greater faith than ourselves can destroy the criminal exploitation to which we are condemned. As a whole, the manifesto basically asked workers to unite. And this was in a time where anarchism was finally starting to pick up in the region. Another group formed in 1876.

Starting point is 00:59:54 This was the Federación Regional de la República Oriental del Uruguay, later called the Federación Obrera Regional Uruguaya, or FORU, and they published papers like La Revolucion Social, La Lucha Obrera, La Federación de Trabadores, La Emancipación and Solidaridad. And it was a very small but burgeoning movement, but they didn't take very long to start making some moves. As Capulati noted, they celebrated the anniversary of the Paris Commune on March 18th and collected 40 pesos on behalf of libertarian prisoners in Lyon.

Starting point is 01:00:34 They also collected money to support their papers and to support papers and efforts elsewhere, like in France. What's interesting about the Uruguayan anarchists is that they were among the most internationalist that I have found so far. You know, like other parts of Latin America, they did have a large immigrant population. But because I suppose the size of Uruguay compared to other countries, the immigrant population was probably larger proportional to their neighbors. So they ended up having a much greater connection to movements and things that are happening

Starting point is 01:01:09 in other parts of the world, including their home countries. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm trying to remember exactly when this began, but there was a movement among anarchists, I guess, more in the early 20th century like learn Esperanto as part of their internationalism. Yes, that's actually a history that I would love to cover in an episode. I will connect you to somebody who writes books about it with pleasure. Really? Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:35 That would be fantastic. My first book was about the anti-fascist Olympics and the last surviving popular Olympian, Eduardo Vivancoscos died in 2022 in Canada in old people's home. I've been trying to visit him but because of the COVID restrictions in the old people's home I wasn't able to but he had served as a Esperanto translator at the Popular Olympics and like lived out his whole life with this dream of like, if we can break down the linguistic barriers between workers and we can get together and change things. Wow.

Starting point is 01:02:11 That is fascinating. You know what's interesting about the whole Esperanto connection to anarchism is that long before I really got into anarchism or even learned about anarchism, I actually tried to learn Esperanto. That's a good go. It worked. They see that this is what they wanted. You saw the barriers fall down once you began speaking Esperanto. I didn't get very far.

Starting point is 01:02:35 I think it was around the time when like Duolingo at first introduced it into their courses. And so I saw it and I like did like a brief reading on it. And I was like, oh, this looks interesting. And so I saw it and I did a brief reading on it and I was like, oh this looks interesting. And so I tried to pick it up and I studied it for a little while but I didn't get particularly far. But now I'm looking in the connection between Esperanto and Antichrist and I'm just like wow, you know the seeds were already there in a sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you were ready for it. That was a dream of the 1920s and 30s. I'm glad that you're living it. For sure.

Starting point is 01:03:07 And actually, we're about to enter, well, at least the 20th century in our little historical review here. Anarchism was really starting to finally pick up steam by this point, becoming very commonly known across Uruguay. In fact, by 1911, according to Capuleti's research of the official stats, there were 117,000 industrial workers in Uruguay, and of those, 90,000 were affiliated with the FORU. So what, 76% of those industrial workers were affiliated with an explicitly anarchist organization. That included port workers, construction workers, metal workers, horse drivers, railway workers, and a lot more.

Starting point is 01:03:54 And to be honest with you, I'm not entirely sure what kept them from taking bolder action compared to some of their neighbors neighbors considering their proportion, the numbers that they had. But unfortunately, it didn't take very long for the movement to be divided. Particularly after the Russian Revolution, there was of course the influence of Bolshevik ideas that split the movement somewhat, bringing workers onto the Bolshevik cause. And then of course you had Bolshevik sponsorship. It was within the USSR's interest to support USSR aligned movements worldwide. And so a lot

Starting point is 01:04:33 of libertarian groups around the world went into decline in that time, including in Uruguay. Some of the unions ended up faltering under the pressure of both the state and the Marxist Leninist groups, but the libertarians never really gave up. So the unions and groups continued acting, continued producing papers. In fact there was a major surge in unionization in the 1940s, according to Paul Sharkey's De Federacion Anarquista Uruguayan, especially among the textile workers, railwaymen, dockers, construction workers and meat packers. And then outside of the union and paper pushing scene, Uruguayan writers continued to shape

Starting point is 01:05:22 the cultural scene with anarchist ideas. Florencio Sanchez, for example, was a playwright in the Rio de la Plata region whose experience in nationalist militias led him to align himself with anarchist circles. He worked as a journalist while actively participating in anarchist organizations and publications, including La Protesta and Buenos Aires. His plays tackled social issues such as class struggle, intergenerational conflicts, and the hardships of the working class. Then you also had other Uruguayan literary figures influenced by anarchism and contributing to the libertarian literary movement, including poet Julio Herrera Irceg, novelist Horacio Quiroga, and bohemian writer Roberto de las Carreras.

Starting point is 01:06:07 And interestingly, there was another notable figure in anarchism connected to perhaps one of the most notable figures in anarchism, and that was the friend and biographer of Errico Malatesta himself, Luigi Fabri. Fabri founded the journal Studi Sociali, which was one of the strongest libertarian publications in Uruguay and Latin America. And after he died, his daughter, Lucy Fabri, continued his work and edited the journal until 1946. Lucy Fabri was also one of the founders of the FAU, and she also published quite a few books in her time, many of which have yet to be translated into English. I wish I could, you know, check them out.

Starting point is 01:06:51 Yeah. Paul Sharkey, you just mentioned, he's the guy, he's translated like a library of anarchist text. Yeah, yeah. I think translators, they don't get as much praise as they should, you know, they're really an underrated contribution to the movement and to the propagation of the movement in new spaces. Yeah, absolutely. I translated some texts for a zine last year and it is a lot of work. Yep.

Starting point is 01:07:17 Yeah, massive respect to people who do that. Unfortunately translation is not as simple as just going word for word. You know, you really do have to get the spirit of the text out of it somehow. Personally, translation is not as simple as just going word for word. You know, you really do have to get the spirit of the text out of it somehow, sometimes with different phrasing and that kind of thing. Yeah, exactly. It's difficult. Google can't do that for you.

Starting point is 01:07:34 Yep. I mean, I appreciate having the ability to like go on a website and like have Google Translate translate the web page quickly for me, but that has very clear and obvious weaknesses You know when you go through it in terms of actually translating the information. Yeah It's good for like getting like a vague gist, right? But professional translators aren't going away anytime soon No, no, it's a great thing to do If you if you have a couple of languages.

Starting point is 01:08:05 Like to make the world visible from someone else's perspective is such a wonderful thing. To be able to try and share that is really special. Yeah, particularly for the less well-known or less popular languages. Yeah. Although you'll be surprised, some of the most popular languages, most widely spoken languages in the world are still lacking some key translations or some very key literature. You know, you'd be surprised like the kinds of texts that we take for granted, the theory and stuff we take for granted, that's just not available and vice versa. You know, there's probably a lot of gems out there that have

Starting point is 01:08:43 yet to hit the English language. Definitely. Yeah, yeah. Like just because especially if it's a big language, like a language of something like Arabic or Spanish Mandarin, where so many people speak it already, like there's less need to translate it because like it's getting out there, I suppose. So there isn't quite the same like urgency to translate it. But the idea is get out through sort of paraphrase, I suppose, because enough people can read

Starting point is 01:09:08 it in their ritual language and then paraphrase it in other languages. Yeah, as long as the idea gets there, you know, the exact words may not necessarily be important. Yeah, it is some beauty and like the piece I translated was pretty short, but the Belgian anarchist who fought in the Spanish Civil War and then went into exile was pretty short, but the Belgian anarchist who fought in the Spanish Civil War and then went into exile in South America. But the way he writes about the revolutionary moment is one of the most perfect and beautiful encapsulations I've ever read. So like it was nice to be able to share that. You should send that to me. What is it called?

Starting point is 01:09:39 It's called rejecting or refuting the legend by a guy called Luis Mercier Vega was the name he went by. Sometimes he also called himself Charles Riddle. Neither of those were his real names, but those are the names he lived most of his life under. I've been reading a lot of translations of De Ruti column memoirs. Another wonderful one is called Sons of the Night, which is by an Italian anarchist who fought in Spain and then lived the rest of his life in France. And then it's a beautiful book because he was a groundskeeper at the Libertarian Club in Marseille. And the young people of the Libertarian Club were so influenced by his life and his experiences and the way he

Starting point is 01:10:13 talked about the world that after his passing, they translated his diary and then wrote this huge historical sort of, the footnotes are four times as long as the book because the footnotes explain the things that he's talking about and who the characters are. And it's a really kind of beautiful text and it has the authors call themselves the Ximenologues, like the followers of Antoine Chiminez. So it's kind of anonymously authored and I think it's a really special like literary project. Wow.

Starting point is 01:10:42 That is something that always moves me, you know, when somebody is able to have such an impact on the lives of others that even in their absence, people, you know, continue their life's work. Yeah, yeah, it's a really special thing. I'll send you a link to it when we're done. But I've diverted us a long way from Uruguay, I'm sorry. Oh, that's fine. That's fine.

Starting point is 01:11:04 I think for this episode, there's just one other interesting moment in Uruguay's anarchist history that I want to cover. And I'll leave it at that before the next episode. But going down this rabbit hole was actually really interesting for me. So, there was an experiment in the 50s in Uruguay called the Comunidad del Sur, which was an anarchist intentional community experiment. And Capulety talks about it briefly. As an effort by folks to live and work and eat and rear children together, away from the injustices of capitalism and the state.

Starting point is 01:11:50 Now anarchism is not about establishing intentional communities, but many anarchists have found great reprieve and great joy in establishing those communities, in finding love and care and connection in those spaces. So these people spent about 20 years living together, making decisions together, sharing finances and sharing education. But the Uruguayan military dictatorship stepped in and put an end to the project in 1976. They spent that time afterwards living in exile. First they settled in Peru and then they ended up in Spain and then after that they found

Starting point is 01:12:27 themselves in Sweden of all places where they continued their communal life and engaged in international political education. So that's all I ended up learning about them at first but I wanted to dig a little deeper and find out what happened to them after that. And I wasn't finding that information in English language sources. So I ended up unfortunately having to lean upon Google Translate for the Swedish and Spanish Wikipedias. But those pages went into a little bit more depth. And so I was able to find out that this group ended up taking part in the occupation of

Starting point is 01:13:09 the Mulvadan neighborhood in the late 70s. And they also translated Latin American anarchist texts into Swedish and vice versa. And then when the dictatorship in Uruguay ended, they returned to Uruguay with the money they raised with the help of their Swedish comrades. And initially a few stayed in Stockholm, so there was a split effort to Uruguay with the money they raised with the help of their Swedish comrades. And initially a few stayed in Stockholm, so there was a split effort between Uruguay and Sweden for a bit. But the ones in Sweden were able to send money and equipment home, and so eventually they were all able to focus in Uruguay and set up a printery and established a farm in the

Starting point is 01:13:40 countryside outside Montevideo on land purchased with money collected in Sweden where they focused on collective farming and organic agriculture. I mean apparently they're still active today. I found what seems to be their website but it's not accessible, it's down. I tried to dig for it on Web Archive but I wasn't getting much information out of that. But I also found a Swedish website that was talking about their activity and I'll drop that in the show notes as well. Oh yeah, that would be cool.

Starting point is 01:14:09 So that particular website, they said, and this is the Google translation of what they said, but it was quote, In parallel with the other activities, the organization runs a farm where it produces sweets from figs, guava, blackberries and citrus fruits. It also preserves vegetables such as peppers and eggplant and produces its own tomato sauce. This small scale industry that the organization has built up is mainly run by a women's group. Comunidad del Sur also participates in the collective La Pitanga that works for equality between women and men and against violence against women."

Starting point is 01:14:43 So they're doing some really important work in Uruguay after all these years. I can't find their exact location but it seems they're based somewhere in La Paz. If anybody wants to reach out for further details, what they're up to these days, their story is really fascinating to me so I'd love to find out. Just that whole idea of this group facing this dictatorial repression, resettling somewhere else, catching their breath, engaging in actions elsewhere, and then being able to return home and continue the work, I find that very inspiring. Yeah, that's really cool. That's what we hope for, you know, when like, people are forced

Starting point is 01:15:19 into exile to be able to return eventually and to be like accepted into the community where they find themselves and unable to like, like you say, catch your breath and build their strength and return. That's really cool. Yeah. I mean, shout out to the Swedish anarchists who would have, you know, moved in solidarity with them and have them set up and that kind of thing if they did. Yeah. Swedish have been really good at accepting migrants and refugees. Unfortunately, a number of people who had received asylum in Sweden were killed this week. So, uh, that fucking sucks.

Starting point is 01:15:52 I'll repeat to them. Yes, I've noticed the mood is shifting as of late. Yeah, all around the world. Thanks to the wonder of social media, I think. Yeah. But you see the digression we had about translation, they ended up connecting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Everyone listening, start learning Esperanto. I think that's a great hobby. Although I do question, I think it was like a

Starting point is 01:16:18 really cool project in its time. I don't know how well it can pick up today. He had like Esperanto in the age of AI is an interesting, I'd love to hear from Esperanto. Honestly, like if we have Esperanto to listen to, I still have a great deal of admiration for the project and like for the people who participate in it. And I've had a lot of communications with them because of their relations to Spanish anarchism and they've always been the nicest, most interesting welcoming people. So like, yeah, if you want to be our Esperanto guest, please hit me up.

Starting point is 01:16:51 Yeah, yeah. Maybe eventually I will get back into Esperanto and pick it up again. I'm still working on my Spanish as listeners can probably tell, but we'll get there. So we'll leave it here for today but next time we're going to venture into how anarchists stayed active throughout the 20th century and also contributed to the development of anarchist strategy internationally. Until then, I've been Andru Sage, I've been here with James Stout and you can find me on YouTube.com slash Andrew Azum, on patreon.com slash Ian Drew.

Starting point is 01:17:29 This is It Could Happen Here. Peace be with you. Is this a good time? It's me, Dylan Mulvaney, and my dear friend Joe Locke from Heartstopper and Agatha All Along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, The Dylan Hour. It's musical mayhem and it is going to be so much fun. I like a man. I like a man. You like a man. What do I like, Joe? You like a man too.

Starting point is 01:18:09 We often... There's quite a similar... There's some cross-pollination happening in here. Not like... No! Have we? No. No. Not yet.

Starting point is 01:18:17 Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls, gays and theys to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world and what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dillon Hour on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Love ya! Prohibition. It's no secret that banning alcohol didn't stop people from living it up in the 1920s. When we're five years into Prohibition, the government is starting to go. Okay, this isn't working.

Starting point is 01:18:48 In fact, you might even say it backfired spectacularly. I'm Ed Helms and on season 3 of my podcast Snafu, we're taking you back to the 1920s and the tale of Formula 6. Because what you probably don't know about Prohibition is that American citizens were dying in massive numbers due to poisoned liquor, and all along an unlikely duo was trying desperately to stop the corruption behind it. They were like superhero crusaders turning the page on a system that didn't work, wasn't

Starting point is 01:19:21 fair, and was corrupt. So how did Prohibition's war on alcohol go so off the rails that the government wound up poisoning its own people? To find out, listen and subscribe to Snafu on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? How goes lower? From Blumhouse TV, iHeart Podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all-new fictional comedy podcast series.

Starting point is 01:19:51 Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi. And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Mm, pillow talk. The most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out of his element hero as he engages in a series of ill-conceived,

Starting point is 01:20:15 investigative hookups. Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. And as I was about to learn, no amount of showering can wash your hands of a bad hookup. Now take a big whiff my brah. Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Starting point is 01:20:40 Hey kids, it's me Kevin Smith. And it's me Harley Quinn Smith. That's my daughter man who my wife has always said is just a beardless, d***less version of me. And that's the name of our podcast, Beardless D***less Me. I'm the old one. I'm the young one. And every week we try to make each other laugh really hard.

Starting point is 01:20:55 Sounds innocent, doesn't it? A lot of cussing, a lot of bad language. It's for adults only. Or listen to it with your kid. It could be a family show. We're not quite sure. We're still figuring it out. It's a work in progress.

Starting point is 01:21:05 Listen to Beardless **** with me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. You get your podcast. Welcome to Kadappan here, a podcast increasingly ruled by an absolutely unhinged and unrestrained band of Nazis and apparently they're democratic collaborators. I am your host, Mia Wong, with me is James St. Yeah I'm Mia's collaborator today. Yay this is collaborator good we are talking today about collaborator bad. So on Friday Senator Chuck Schumer and his allies in an act of Democratic collaboration with the regime that looks even more hideous now than it did then in the wake of a

Starting point is 01:21:43 series of absolutely horrific deportations in the last few days, voted for basically a continuing funding resolution. So this is a little bit complicated, but I believe in us. We can get through a little tiny bit of Senate bullshit. So basically what's happening is that they need a resolution to keep funding the government for a little bit until more negotiations can happen to fund a budget. There hasn't been a budget basically like we keep seeing this over and over again. They're keeping continuing funding resolutions. They keep

Starting point is 01:22:13 almost being government shutdowns because if there's not a continuing funding resolution and there's no budget the government doesn't have any money. What happened here was that so in the Senate you can filibuster this and a whole bunch of senators Schumer and others who we will be reading out later after we talk about what this resolution actually did because it's unhinged so you've probably been hearing if you've been hearing about this you've been hearing you call it cloture vote so what that is is basically the absolute shortest version of it is it's a vote to kill a filibuster on the bill you filibuster by

Starting point is 01:22:41 continuing debate cloture ends debate, etc, etc, etc. So this resolution is staggeringly unhinged. It is not a very long funding continuation. It includes $13 billion in cuts in non-military spending and also $6 billion in military spending cuts. There are a lot of things that have been sort of defunded by this, including like a lot of like housing and urban development stuff. So research ship, you know, and that's obviously really bad. Because normally with these resolutions, you're just sort of like continuing the funding, right? But this is not a normal continuing resolution. This is... It is over...

Starting point is 01:23:26 It is very, very overdramatic to do the thing that a lot of people have been doing, which is comparing it to the enabling acts that the Nazis passed. Yeah, it's not... But... But, comma, this is a completely unhinged continuing resolution. There has never been a continuing resolution like this ever and it is genuinely it is another step down the path of effectively having Trump running the government as a dictator by sort of pure fiat and

Starting point is 01:23:57 Okay, you're hearing me say this and you think this is an exaggeration but what this continuing resolution actually does is Normally in one of these resolutions, Congress tells the executive how parts of the budget are supposed to be sent, right? It does allocations. It'll be like, okay, so there's this money for this thing and it goes to this purpose and you have to spend it here. This continuing resolution just like doesn't do that. Yeah. And the goal of it is just to let Trump do whatever the fuck he wants with the money

Starting point is 01:24:27 By not actually giving out congressional things to specifically allocate it So this is more of a thing we've been seeing more and more which is Congress specifically like delegating and abandoning its Constitutional power to be the people who set the budget and just handing it over to the executive so there can be a single unitary Executive that runs the entire government's yeah Yeah I mean when you combine it with the open defiance of the court you saw this weekend with with deportation right like it's not a good not a good outlook actually like it is yeah yeah in terms of the old separation of powers which is you know supposed to be a thing yeah you know you. You can argue about whether the American Revolution was about the king being able to set taxes,

Starting point is 01:25:10 because that was technically a thing controlled by the British Parliament. But it is, for example, the issue that the Revolution of 1789 was fought over, right? Like, there shouldn't be a single unitary executive who gets to fucking set the budget. It's fundamentally... I don't want to say unconstitutional because I guess I don't get to decide what is unconstitutional and to the extent that it matters. No, fuck him! Fuck him!

Starting point is 01:25:36 We get to... Well, it doesn't matter, yeah, but it is like obviously hideously unconstitutional. It's entirely against the basic principles of the Constitution, right? Like the sine qua non of the US Constitution, to use a fancy word, is separation of powers. Is it not like the kind of the point of the thing is to not just have one older dude in charge like that. That is the English way. Yeah, and this is the fundamental principles upon which the liberal notion of democracy

Starting point is 01:26:02 is based. And I use liberal in like the 1700s, early 1800s sense of the word liberal, right? Which is that like you believe in democracy. This bill effectively just allows Trump to fund and defund programs at will. I mean, there's, you know, there are specific things like boundaries in which he can and can't do this,

Starting point is 01:26:22 but I'm gonna read some stuff from Senator Patty Murray who is the the vice chair of the Senate Appropriations Committee, which is the committee that handles like Where money goes in the budget right? It was budget appropriations, etc So she you know is one of the senators who sort of understands this intimately She wrote a fact sheet about this which is fucking terrifying. I'm just gonna quote from that because good God. Quote, under this continuing resolution, the Trump administration could, for example, decide not to spend funding previously allocated for combating Fensinol, the support act and other substance abuse and mental health care programs, or specific NIH priorities like Alzheimer's disease and vaccine research, and instead steer funding to other priorities of its choosing.

Starting point is 01:27:07 It could also pick and choose which military, construction, army, corps, or transit improvement and expansion projects to withdraw funding without direction from Congress, leaving democratic states and priorities in the lurch. Yeah, that's, that is, like, that's not great. Like, I don't think people realize how much damage this could do. And like, yeah, they have a year of just randomly slashing. Not only is it the programs who are affected, right, things that are cut. The certainty that contractors will get paid.

Starting point is 01:27:40 The certainty that if you have a contract with the government, it is a reliable thing. Like that will have Devastating economic consequences if they just start randomly yoinking contracts it and not paying people as they did with the USAID suppliers, right? Yeah, so like there is also a bunch of funding cuts for things like the Army Corps of Engineers and like there are a lot Of valid criticisms you can have about the Army Corps of Engineers and for example the way it has structurally fucked the entire city of New Orleans. But the thing is, not giving them money to do hurricane prevention is not going to help that. And the thing about this, right, because this resolution has 13 billion in direct budget

Starting point is 01:28:17 cuts and then it also allows Trump to do more cuts on top of it by doing these funding allocation things, right? So it's like a, it's a fucking like double fucking like double, sort of double set of cuts here. This includes, you know, he can reallocate money away from the FAA. One of the most absolutely terrifying ones is that this continuing resolution allows R.F.K. Jr. to eliminate funding for the universal flu vaccine. Yeah, I was talking to someone in the medical profession about this.

Starting point is 01:28:43 Like there's a serious chance that they just won't be One developed in the US for next year and that it will just use the European one great stuff You know, this is really the substantive problem with this entire thing and why it is genuinely an act of like an act an act of collaboration We're the Avicii France to fucking pass this to pass this fucking bill. Yeah. Is that again, you are handing control of like the budgets, right? You're handing direct control of just like how budget allocation stuff gets gets fucking dealt with to like, Elon Musk, Trump and RFK Jr. And they can just fucking do this shit with it. Yeah, we've already seen some of this like

Starting point is 01:29:26 Manipulation of federal government funding like with the color with Columbia University. Oh, we're gonna get to that. Yeah, okay good exciting Yeah, so other things it defunds FEMA's disaster relief fund Which is bad because a bunch of famous disaster relief fund has been Get this Exhausted because there were a bunch of fucking disasters. Guess what there's going to be more of? Disasters. Guess what there's not going to be money in?

Starting point is 01:29:49 The FEMA disaster relief fund. Yeah, that's bad. Yeah. And here's the thing. We have not fucking hit the worst part of this continuing resolution yet. Like all of that, right? Like the monopolization of power in the hands of the executive, you know, like the the potential defunding of the flu vaccine. We have not hit rock bottom yet. Rock bottom is this.

Starting point is 01:30:11 Hitting resolution quote, slashes a hundred and eighty five million dollars, seven percent of the total program, from defense nuclear non-proliferation programs, including the programs that prevent terrorists from acquiring nuclear and radioactive material, remove radioactive materials at risk of being misused or causing a catastrophic accident, and deter and monitor foreign nuclear fuel cycle and weapons developments, nuclear materials movement or diversions, and nuclear explosions. Cool. So we are defunding the nuke police. Again.

Starting point is 01:30:43 For a third time. And this one looks like it's actually gonna fucking stick because I don't think any of these fucking people actually understand what the defense nuclear nonproliferation programs do. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, because they were on one about Iran and enriching uranium for years. Have they just moved on? Well, as we're going to see in a second second this budget is being written by just fucking clowns

Starting point is 01:31:08 Like just absolute dipshits. I don't I don't know who the fuck is doing this That's what I sometimes wonder is like who comes up with these numbers like is there like a Staffers it's literally an army of staffers. Yeah, the senators were voting for these bills most often have no idea What the fuck is in them. It's all run by an army of staffers. And the thing about it all being run by an army of staffers and the fact that Republican staffers are increasingly drawn from a class of like genuinely the most unhinged people who have ever lived, this class of fucking internet gropers and fucking white nationalist bullshit means that one of the parts of this I think people have

Starting point is 01:31:45 heard about is the one billion dollars in spending that was cut just from like the city budget of Washington DC. Now looking at what's happened next, I genuinely think they did this by accident. That's been the explanation that's been given is that they literally did it by accident. And the reason I think it might actually be true, it's either actually true or they saw the pushback, but immediately after this bill got passed, there was like a separate bill that was drafted to restore the funding. And that was approved unanimously by the second.

Starting point is 01:32:13 So it might legitimately have been a mistake. So it was either legitimately a mistake or all of these people realized that the entire population of DC was about to like fucking march on the capital of pitchforks. So I don't know what one of those two things. So we're not talking much about the DC stuff because it seems like the funding is gonna come back, though if it doesn't, we'll cover the catastrophic impacts of that. And there's one more thing, James, which I couldn't find details of, but one of the things it's supposed to do is eliminate protections for people in immigration courts.

Starting point is 01:32:40 Fantastic. Great. Allow the Attorney General more power. Yeah. I was just looking this up actually. Like let me, um, there was a, an office founded under Biden that was the office of the office of immigration detention ombudsman, which was like supposedly to exist to like examine people's conditions in immigration detention, right? And I'm wondering to what extent it still exists. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:33:04 Like, I don't know. I was just trying to find that out. I would have to go through the resolution and maybe I will at some point, but yeah, there is stuff that the federal government does right now that provides people with some protections in immigration courts, right? And yeah, I can, I mean, look, to the extent of that matters because they're just deporting people in open violation of court orders right now, we don't know. But it's still bad. Either

Starting point is 01:33:31 way, right? Taking away the very few protections that Mike would have. It's bad. Yeah. So speaking of bad things, we're going to go to ads and then we're going to come back. We are back. So having said all of this about this bill, fully 10 Democratic senators voted to avoid shutting down the government and fucking pass this

Starting point is 01:34:05 unbelievably hideous resolution, which again, like defunds the nuke police. Again, they are risking like global annihilation by doing this. And I'm just going to read out the names of everyone who did this because there's been a lot of focus on Chuck Schumer and Chuck Schumer is like, probably the primary person responsible for this, but fuck every single one of these people He's a quizzling in this scenario Like the capital Q quizzling. Yes. Yes Okay, so Chuck Schumer

Starting point is 01:34:32 Katherine Cortez Masto dick Durbin, which is actually a surprising one because Durbin also Durbin's about to retire He was my old senator in Illinois. I actually know he wasn't well Complicated I should fucking don't remember which one of them I had. But Durbin is, you know, he's like senior party leadership guy. He's usually been in like the kind of left, I guess, of the like old Democratic like leadership. Yeah, which is not very far left, but he fucking voted for this. John Fetterman to the surprise of absolutely no one. Tristan Gillibman to the surprise of absolutely no one. Kristen Gillibrand to the surprise of absolutely no one. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:35:08 Maggie Hassan, Agnes King, Gary Peters, Brian Schatz, and Janine Shaheen. Now, notably missing from that list, Tim fucking Cain voted against this.

Starting point is 01:35:19 Do you know how bad a Republican budget thing has to be for Tim fucking C Kane to vote against it and be like, hey guys, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah, the thing is, like, as a Democrat, the move, just if you want to get reelected, is to vote against it and then blame them for everything bad that happens this year because of the budget thing, right? If you have no moral backbone whatsoever, and I'm sure like, like there are things in, in this continuing resolution, which

Starting point is 01:35:47 will really screw over rural areas, right? Like some of the funding that was allocated. Oh yeah. And like, Kane is at least, I guess, astute enough to see that when things get hard over his constituents, he can go, yes, they did this and I voted against it and you need to return me to office so I can continue opposing this shit, which is a very cynical approach.

Starting point is 01:36:09 But then, yeah, we've just got Chuck Schumer who just kind of bowed down and kissed the ring. Yeah, and the response to this is staggering. I genuinely, I have never seen anything like the kind of anger I'm seeing. I've seen that Schumer for the past few days. This has happened Friday. Like Indivisible, which is like a pretty, so Indivisible is like a sort of NGO-y thing

Starting point is 01:36:31 that's like, it's like a sort of vaguely progressive thing. It tries to get people to vote for the Democrats. Yeah. And like register voters and stuff. Yeah. They've been getting into fights with the Democratic leadership because they keep telling people to call their senators, tell them to oppose bills and the Nominations the Democrats are like we don't want to oppose bills in 2020 in mobilizing the vote in

Starting point is 01:36:51 Ton-Au-Tum territory for instance like an indivisible to Hono played a really important role So like they're not negligible in their power. No. Yeah, and like they are calling for primary Chuck Schumer R slash neoliberal Is calling for primary Chuck Schumer. R slash neoliberal Is calling for AOC? The primary Chuck Schumer. Do you know how fucked things have to be for R slash neoliberal to be backing AOC Against Chuck Schumer like fucking near a Tandon is agreeing with Bernie Sanders criticizing Schumer for voting for this bill. Like this is like I

Starting point is 01:37:28 I don't know. I think there may be there are probably are people in the audience here who either like weren't paying attention enough Or like don't remember or like weren't old enough to be around for like like the Bernie Wars but this is like every faction on every side of like the whole series of fights from like 2015 and like Bernie's first thing through 2020 Even like the bit late 2020s like all of these people were on exactly polar opposite sides They fucking hated each other and they're all like coming together specifically to agree on a fuck Chuck Schumer campaign to the point where like together specifically to agree on a fuck Chuck Schumer campaign to the point where like again like R slash neoliberal and like Neera Tanden who are like have been just

Starting point is 01:38:07 absolute stalwarts the party right for ages are like are backing AOC primaring Chuck Schumer. Yeah it's a total cultural victory for the Bernie bros is what's happening it's a Democratic Party. Well again the Chuck Schumer is the head of the Democratic caucus in the Senate. Yeah, minority leader of United States Senate. Yeah, he is, you know, he is unbelievably powerful. And I mean, like the people criticizing him, he got criticized. There was a joint statement on funding bill in the Senate from the Democratic minority leader in the fucking house, Hakeem Jeffries, and the Democratic whip Kathleen Clark and the caucus chair,

Starting point is 01:38:45 Peter Aguilar and like Hakeem Jeffries is as ferociously anti socialist of a politician as there exists in all of Congress. He is like implacably hostile to even like the most like bearish progressive things whatsoever. He is just staggeringly opposed. They released a joint statement against this, right? What is sort of happening here and it's happening fucking too late to stop anything. But what's happening here is like we are genuinely starting to get a kind of and I'm seeing this sort of online.

Starting point is 01:39:19 I think we've been seeing the sort of echoes of it is like there's a kind of realignment happening among. You know, obviously this has been being opposed by people outside the Democratic Party and by a lot of the Democratic Party's base for ages, right? And the Democratic Party's base and also just like people who don't want to get be ruled by fascist forever have had, you know, incredibly staunch opposition to all of the collaboration is investment happening. But what's happening right now is that like the actual like inside of the

Starting point is 01:39:46 Democratic Party, there was a fucking rupture happening inside of people who are like, you know, like inside of the political there was a rupture happening between people who are collaborationist and people who'd like want to be less collaborationist. And this is to the point where like like Nancy Pelosi came out against this. Yeah. And the reason they're doing this is because a lot of these people are fucking terrified because they are looking at a couple things one they're Looking at what the Trump administration is doing and they're going holy shit like near a Tandon is looking at them fucking just black bagging Just like just fucking black bagging Mamou Khalil and is going like holy shit

Starting point is 01:40:20 We are maybe about I mean, it's maybe eight steps away from that happening to be, but that's eight steps that you can fucking, like that's a path you can walk down. Yeah. And it's these also these people that are realizing just the unbelievable anger among just like regular, what you would call sort of like regular liberals who aren't like, like you vote for the Democrats, but if you weren't like, Yeah, they're not like on Twitter with a blue wave emoji. Yeah, but the thing is, yeah, they're not like on Twitter with a blue wave emoji The thing is even even the people on Twitter with a blue wave emoji and again like the r slash neoliberal people are like the most

Starting point is 01:40:51 Ideologically committed of all of these people right like even the most unhinged nerds who are like obsessed with like individual house races and like very very specific weird technical policy stuff that Allows them to justify supporting all these unhinged policies even those people are turning on them and the reason this is all happening and I think this is a very very important thing to understand about the entire political landscape going forward is that one of the core and extremely important bases of Donald Trump support is in the leadership of the Democratic Party, particularly the Democratic Party in New York, right?

Starting point is 01:41:27 This is Schumer, this is Eric Adams. This is also increasingly becoming true of people like Gavin Newsom and a lot of the sort of Democrats out of the Bay to some extent. And you can see this in sort of various border states too, where, you know, these people fundamentally are doing this because they fucking agree with him. That's why, that's why, that's why they're fucking collaborating. Yeah. Or the very least like, and perhaps it's in a sense worse that they don't agree with him, but they don't care enough to, to not like they're doing it because

Starting point is 01:42:01 they think they can personally benefit. No, I don't think that's true. And my, my, my evidence for why I don't think this true is I'm going to read some stuff from the new York Times interview that they would Chuck Schumer right after he did this Okay, so in this interview with the New York Times Okay, so in this interview with the New York Times, he gets asked about Trump cutting $400 million of funding for Columbia University for, I guess, not publicly executing the Palestine protesters. And again, Columbia University, that is an institution that he represents in the Senate.

Starting point is 01:42:39 Right? Yeah. That's like his fucking thing. And his response was, well, obviously they didn't crush the campus protests hard enough But but cutting 400 million dollars of spending might hurt students who didn't protest Like maybe he's not even clear about that, right? So if you read between the lines of what he's saying

Starting point is 01:42:57 His argument is that it's actually fine for Trump to do all of these fucking budget cuts of all of these people From these universities as long as it's specifically targeting pro-Palestinian protesters, which is anyone who's vaguely pro-Palestine. And he also gets, you know, he gets asked about the Trump administration to straight up blackbag him with Khalil. And he says, quote, I don't know all the details yet. They're trying to come out and there'll be a court case which will determine it. If he broke the law, he should be deported. If he didn't break the law and just peacefully protested, he should not be deported.

Starting point is 01:43:29 It's plain and simple. I mean, how is it hard to not make an equivocating statement on that? No, because he agrees with it. He thinks it's fine. He thinks it's fine. The Trump administration fucking black bagged this guy. Like again, who is who is a permanent US resident. He thinks that it is okay, that

Starting point is 01:43:45 he's not even disagreeing with the actual literal blackbagging. And I don't want to point this out, like even if Mahmoud Khalil like legally committed a crime like that's not a fucking deportation thing. Yeah, the section of the United States law they're using to justify deporting him is not one that has been used before. He did not do a felony. And they're not suggesting that he did do a felony. And if Schumer can't find it in himself to condemn that,

Starting point is 01:44:13 folks need to move on. No, it's because he agrees with it. That's the thing. What he is saying here is that he agrees that if a permanent legal US resident commits any crime. Or doesn't though, he's not accused of a crime. Like he's he... No, no, but that's it.

Starting point is 01:44:30 No, no, but this is specifically what Schumer said. Schumer said quote, if he broke the law, he should be deported. What his stance is, is that if someone who is a permanent US resident breaks the law while at a Palestine protest, even if it is a misdemeanor, even if it is fucking jaywalking, that they should be deported. That is the Trump administration line. Like that is it is slightly less than Trump administration line, but that is that is a genuinely fascist political line. He just straight up agrees with the administration. He is a slight matter of degree like off from them. But like he's he just like he's collaborating because he fucking agrees with them.

Starting point is 01:45:07 He agrees with them both on on the fact that the state should be used to like destroy anyone who supports Palestine. And he agrees with them on the fucking deportation shit. Because you know, this is one of the other things that Democrats have fundamentally aligned with Trump on since 2020 is that fundamentally, like they agree that we need more immigration controls and we need to do more border violence. You can see the evidence of this from when they fucking passed that just unhinged fascist bill to do allow border state of emergencies.

Starting point is 01:45:35 Yeah, and the stuff that they proposed and didn't pass because the Republicans wanted to kill it and then Biden executive order banning asylum. Like, I think what it comes down to is that for the Democrats, the existence of people who oppose a genocide in Palestine and the existence of migrants is seen as inconvenient and they're prepared to do away with any rights those people might have and even do away with those people rather than engage with them in any way, right? They, I'm sure people like Schumer continue to blame people from both of those movements for their ass whooping that they took at the polls in 2024, because they decided that it was more important to do genocide than it was to listen to those in this country.

Starting point is 01:46:25 country. Rather than listening now, they're blaming them. And the only logical way for them to go is right. And the only logical place for them to take it is more state violence, right? Yeah, but there's another aspect of this too, which is the thing I want to close on, which is okay, so why do the Democrats, why have the Democrats been shifting so far to the right since 2020? Right? And since particularly since after 2022, when they needed to sort of win a contestant for election. And the answer is that after 2020 all of their politics became about opposing the uprising because they you know There was a period dreamy uprising where they were scared enough that like you get like the kente cloth shit and they're like you know, they're talking about like and Biden like runs on a

Starting point is 01:46:59 Significantly more left-wing platform than like Kamala Harris did right? Yeah I think because of the specifically because of the pressure of those protests now obviously like presidential platform is just lies right but right yeah it's just lies you need to tell to get the votes yeah yeah but on the other hand the fundamental politics of the other Democratic Party in the last half a decade has been opposing the uprising it's the thing that's you know behind all of their turned tough on crime politics is the thing behind their there's sort of anti-immigrant politics thing behind the turns they've been taking on

Starting point is 01:47:26 trans politics. And the problem with this, particularly like the anti-black, anti-crime shit and the anti-immigrant stuff, you know who else? His entire politics, like came into the fucking political sphere as the right wing reaction to the uprising. Oh, wait, Donald Trump, Donald Trump walked down the fucking escalator in 2015, immediately in the wake of the giant uprisings in Baltimore in 2015, which I think people have sort of memory holds, like Ferguson in Baltimore.

Starting point is 01:47:54 It's like right after Baltimore that Trump fucking comes down the escalator. And people forget how fundamentally the right-wing reaction to those protests deranged people who even the Tea Party hadn't pushed like far enough to Vote for Donald Trump. It was like it was a reaction to this Yeah, that's when we saw the oath keepers for the first time as well like this kind of militant right really grew dramatically

Starting point is 01:48:18 In response to that. Yeah, and this is the sort of fundamental thing that's going on Is that there's now an entire class of people who are running the Democratic Party, right? This is this is a fucking Chuck Schumer. He's like, I mean, quite possibly the most powerful Democrat in the country. And he is just straight up a collaborationist. Yeah, it might legit become that like, AOC is more powerful than Chuck Schumer in the next few weeks. You know, he is the reaction against Chuck Schumer from establishment Democrats is stronger than anything I've ever seen from them. He lost Seth Moulton, which I didn't even think was possible. Yeah. But I think there's one more important note to sort of say here, which is that like,

Starting point is 01:48:57 you know, the response to this that I've largely been seeing is everyone going, OK, we need a primary of these people. OK, are you looking at the rate at which stuff is happening in this country like you? Do you think that we are going to be able to wait until the fucking primaries? Yeah, 60 years to some races right yeah until we can like attempt to fucking do shit here like absolutely not no There was like they're literally is regardless of what you think about electoralism as a strategy There is literally not time to wait until the next election cycle. Like again, they have defunded the nuke police for the third time.

Starting point is 01:49:31 So the opposition to this isn't going to come from inside of the electoral system, because again, the Democrats are being run by collaborators and there's not enough time to fucking oust them. So if you if you want this to not continue, you're going to you're going to have to find ways to do organizing. this to not continue. You're going to have to find ways to do organizing outside of that system. We have approximately one million episodes about this. You can also go back to my You Already Know How to Organize episode. But yeah. Look, call your senator if you want to. But if that's the net total of your political activity, then like right now it's probably not going to make a difference in time. And really consider if it's the most useful use of your time

Starting point is 01:50:05 yeah and maybe make some beans or sew something nice for someone instead or as well you could listen to it while you sew something nice you could call them while you're cooking your beans hell yeah well this is a bit it could happen here uh yeah down with the collaborationists. Yeah. Fuck them. Yeah, absolutely fuck them. Fuck Chuck Schumer in particular. Is this a good time? It's me, Dylan Mulvaney, and my dear friend Joe Locke from Heartstopper and Agatha All Along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, The Dylan Hour. It's musical mayhem and it is going to be so much fun. I like a man. You like a man. What do I like, Joe?

Starting point is 01:51:04 You like a man too. We often- We have quite a similar- There's some cross pollination happening in here. Not like- No! Have we? No. No. Not yet. Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls, gays, and theys to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world and what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dylan Hour on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Love ya! Prohibition. It's no secret that banning alcohol didn't stop people from living it up in the 1920s.

Starting point is 01:51:38 When we're five years into Prohibition, the government is starting to go, okay, this isn't working. In fact, you might even say it backfired spectacularly. I'm Ed Helms, and on season three of my podcast, Snafu, we're taking you back to the 1920s and the tale of Formula 6. Because what you probably don't know about prohibition is that American citizens were dying in massive numbers

Starting point is 01:52:03 due to poisoned liquor. And all along, an unlikely duo was trying desperately to stop the corruption behind it. They were like superhero crusaders turning the page on a system that didn't work, wasn't fair, and was corrupt. So how did Prohibition's war on alcohol go so off the rails that the government wound up poisoning its own people. To find out, listen and subscribe to Snafu on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts,

Starting point is 01:52:31 or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? Ow, goes lower. From Blumhouse TV, iHeart podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend.

Starting point is 01:52:52 And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi. And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Hmm, pillow talk. The most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out of his element hero

Starting point is 01:53:08 as he engages in a series of ill-conceived investigative hookups. Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. And as I was about to learn, no amount of showering can wash your hands of a bad hookup. Now, take a big whiff, my brah.

Starting point is 01:53:27 -♪ Listen to The Hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. -♪ Hey, kids, it's me, Kevin Smith. And it's me, Harley Quinn Smith. That's my daughter, man, who my wife has always said is just a beardless, d***less version of me,

Starting point is 01:53:44 and that's the name of our podcast, Be beardless, d***less version of me. And that's the name of our podcast, Beardless D***less Me. I'm the old one. I'm the young one. And every week we try to make each other laugh really hard. Sounds innocent, doesn't it? A lot of cussing, a lot of bad language. It's for adults only.

Starting point is 01:53:56 Or listen to it with your kid. It could be a family show. We're not quite sure. We're still figuring it out. It's a work in progress. Listen to Beardless D***less Me on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. This is It Could Happen Here.

Starting point is 01:54:12 I'm Garrison Davis. Tesla derangement syndrome is sweeping the nation. Last week on March 11th, President Donald Trump starred in a 35-minute Tesla commercial, broadcast live from the White House driveway to news stations across the country. This presidential ad campaign started with Trump announcing that he himself would buy a Tesla in support of his eunuch advisor, Elon Musk, whose business ventures have taken a sour turn as of late. To assist Trump with his purchase, the South Lawn was temporarily turned into a Tesla showroom, with five different models parked in a row to choose which shiny new car to buy.

Starting point is 01:54:56 A significant portion of this Tesla sales event was spent by Trump praising Elon Musk's work at Doge as well as Elon's business ventures and complaining about people treating Elon Musk unfairly Saying that he quote shouldn't be penalized because he's a patriot I'm just telling people this man is a great patriot and you should cherish him You should cherish him. You know, I have a little statement. We have to take care of our high IQ people because we don't have too many of them. And we gotta take care of them.

Starting point is 01:55:33 As for the cars, Trump mentioned that he actually already bought a cyber truck for his granddaughter, Kai, which Trump called the coolest design. But this time he chose a red Tesla Model S. Upon climbing in the car, that Secret Service does not allow him to operate, Trump remarked, wow, everything's computer. At the end of the live streamed Tesla commercial,

Starting point is 01:55:58 Trump said that he would pay with a check, though for the duration of the event, Trump served as both buyer and salesman, as he read off from a sheet of notes on pricing and features for various Tesla models like how quote Tesla's can be purchased for as low as 2.99 a month You know, I do notice this. They have one, which is $35,000, which is pretty low. What is that all about? This whole charade was an explicit attempt to rescue Tesla's plummeting stock price

Starting point is 01:56:34 and help foster a new demographic of electric car buyers. Anti-woke conservatives looking to show support of Elon Musk, Doge, and the new Trump administration through consumer purchases. Trump himself said that he hoped doing ads for Tesla on the White House driveway would help Tesla's stock value and encouraged others to buy Elon's cars. The next day, Tesla shares did rise 4% but are now trending back down amid a global wave of protests against Tesla for Musk's involvement with Doge and the Trump administration as well as Elon's Nazi curious behavior

Starting point is 01:57:13 Trump has tried to face this wave of hate against his new best friend head-on Truthing on his platform of choice truth social last week quote Elon Musk is putting it on the line in order to help our nation and he is doing a fantastic job. But the radical left lunatics, as they often do, are trying to illegally and collusively boycott Tesla, one of the world's greatest automakers, and Elon's quote unquote baby, in order to attack and do harm to Elon and everything he stands for.

Starting point is 01:57:47 They tried to do it to me at the 2024 presidential ballot box, but how did that work out? Unquote. There's a lot to unpack there. From Trump calling Tesla Elon's baby, despite Elon carrying around his baby at the White House near 24-7, to bizarrely declaring protest boycotts as illegal. Not only has Trump called the Tesla boycott illegal, but during the White House car commercial, he announced that vandalism of Teslas will be labeled as domestic terrorism, promising that perpetrators will quote-unquote, go through hell. White House spokesperson Harrison Fields said quote

Starting point is 01:58:26 ongoing and heinous acts of violence against Tesla by radical leftist activists are nothing short of domestic terror unquote. There certainly has been a surge of violence targeted at Tesla vehicles and dealerships which I will discuss in detail later this episode. But for the past months there's also been a wave of nonviolent protests and mass mobilization against Musk and Tesla at dealerships all around the country and even overseas, which the aforementioned boycott is a part of. The quote-unquote Tesla takedown protests call to quote, sell your Tesla's dump your stock, join the picket lines.

Starting point is 01:59:07 We're tanking Tesla's stock price to stop Musk unquote. Their website has a map of Tesla dealerships around the world and a list of upcoming protests at various locations, which can be searched through via zip code. There have been reoccurring weekly protests at dealerships every Saturday in cities across the country, with demonstrations at more than 50 Tesla showrooms attracting crowds of between dozens to a thousand, like in Tucson, Arizona. The boycotts and public demonstrations certainly aren't helping Tesla's stock price and international reputation, but they are not the only display of displeasure directed at Elon and Tesla, as others are employing

Starting point is 01:59:51 more direct methods to damage the company. Beyond peaceful protests, pickettings, short-lived dealership occupations, and waving anti-Elon Musk signs outside Tesla stores, Tesla vehicles themselves have become the nation's hottest graffiti mural service. Actually, around the world people have been using Teslas to scribble epithets against Elon Musk and Donald Trump. Even some eco-conscious owners of Tesla vehicles have defaced their own cars with stickers that read, I bought this before he was a Nazi. Which hey, you can also put on your old Kanye West records.

Starting point is 02:00:31 Speaking of Kanye West, some individuals have taken to marking Teslas with a swastika, which at first raised eyebrows and confused some investigators, as typically when there's swastika graffiti, it's supposed to be anti-Semitic in nature. Whereas in this case, based on external factors, this is most likely a public attempt to link Elon Musk and Tesla with Nazism, following Musk's own anti-Semitic posts, far-right politics, and the whole salute thing. Stickers and flyers have spread from the UK to San Francisco, reading, Posts, far-right politics, and the whole salute thing.

Starting point is 02:01:05 Stickers and flyers have spread from the UK to San Francisco, reading, Don't buy a swastikaar. But it's not all stickers and graffiti. We'll talk about the other Tesla attacks after this ad break. Okay, we're back. One of the most bizarre instances of Tesla vandalism was when 44 wheels were stolen off 12 unsold Teslas in a Texas parking lot on Valentine's Day. Investigators say they don't currently have any leads since the nearby security

Starting point is 02:01:45 cameras weren't recording and the Tesla cameras were not active. These Teslas were actually being stored in an Amazon parking lot six miles away from their home dealership. Allegedly Tesla is contracting with other businesses to store their cars amid a wave of vandalism at Tesla dealerships. On March 11th, wheels were damaged on multiple vehicles at a Tesla dealership in Dedham, Massachusetts. In Myers, California, Tesla superchargers keep being sabotaged with epoxy found in the charging cable and anti-Elon Musk graffiti

Starting point is 02:02:19 with chargers marked with swastikas. Seven Tesla charging stations at a shopping center were arsoned outside of Boston, Massachusetts on March 3rd, and on March 7th, Maltav cocktails were thrown at a Tesla charging station in South Carolina, with long-live Ukraine on the ground in red paint. A 24-year-old man was taken into custody on March 13th. But it's not just wheel thefts and supercharger sabotage.

Starting point is 02:02:48 Tesla dealerships have been a target for anti-musk graffiti, vandalism, and armed attacks. Some commentators have been conflating the picketing protests and graffiti with actual instances of arson and property destruction. People like Libs of TikTok, labeling simple spray paint as quote-unquote trans-violence or trans-terrorism. Which is not to say some people aren't taking a more destructive approach towards their Elon Musk grievances. Whether that qualifies as terrorism is another issue though. On January 20th, a man wearing black pulling a wheelie cart

Starting point is 02:03:25 approached a Tesla dealership in Salem, Oregon and threw a Molotov cocktail at a cyber truck. Surveillance footage shows the man pull out, ignite, and throw three more Molotov cocktails from his rolling cart before realizing an eyewitness is charging their Tesla nearby. The man in black pulls out a suppressor-mounted AR-style rifle and points it at the witness as they drive away, before continuing to throw more Molotov cocktails at parked vehicles. A rock was used to break the glass of the dealership showroom, and another Molotov cocktail was thrown inside the building. A criminal complaint claims that this incident caused around $500,000 in damage to the dealership,

Starting point is 02:04:07 including damaging seven Tesla vehicles. A month later, on February 19th, the same dealership was hit again, this time with gun shots breaking through windows and hitting vehicles. In early March, a 41-year-old man was arrested in connection to both incidents, with court documents claiming fingerprints were identified on recovered glass bottles used for explosive devices, and the suspect's car was identified in footage captured by a police car parked near the Tesla dealership. A bit north of Salem, in Tigard, Oregon, there have been two incidents of gunshots being

Starting point is 02:04:42 fired at a Tesla dealership just this month. A Tigard Police press release reads, quote, For the second time in a week, Tigard police are investigating shots fired at a Tesla dealership. Early this morning, March 13, 2025, around 415 a.m., more than a dozen shots were fired at the dealership, causing extensive damage to cars and showroom windows, unquote. There's also been a series of incidents at a Tesla dealership in northern Colorado. A spree of anti-Musk graffiti and vandalism started in January, with Molotov cocktail style incendiary devices found on the scene. On February 7th, police responded to a call about graffiti and possible arson at the dealership. A few days later, a security guard confronted an individual, spray painting the front windows

Starting point is 02:05:30 of the dealership. And on February 24th, a suspect was arrested at the dealership, allegedly in possession of bottles and gasoline. She was charged in late February. Another person was arrested, allegedly in connection to a similar yet unrelated incident at the very same dealership in Loveland, Colorado. After a Molotov cocktail style device was found burning between two Tesla vehicles on March 7th, the rocks were also used to damage both the building and multiple cars. At around 11 p.m. on Sunday, March 9th, four Cybertrucks erupted into flames at a Tesla parking lot in Seattle, Washington. On Monday, March 17th, two Cybertrucks were set on fire at a dealership in Kansas City.

Starting point is 02:06:17 Here's how local TV news reported the incident. Around 11 p.m. officers were called to a fire at a car lot. Car fire at that Tesla dealership in the parking lot. A KCPD officer was close by when he noticed smoke coming from a Tesla Cybertruck. The officer used his fire extinguisher to try to put out the flames, but the fire continued to spread. KCFD was

Starting point is 02:06:39 called in to help. Our crews got on scene and the fire was in two Cybertrucks. It had spread from one to the other. We were able to get water on them. Copious amounts of water get the fire out. Now federal agencies are getting involved. We saw an A. T. F. Officer with a bag of evidence. They say this incident follows similar reports from across the country of violence at Tesla dealerships. I mean, you're eventually going to get caught, right? Reaction to this incident has been mixed with some condemning the crime and

Starting point is 02:07:11 others who see it as a form of protest towards the automaker. And just a few days ago on March 18th, an individual dressed in all black fired gunshots and threw Molotov cocktails damaging five cars at a Tesla service center in Las Vegas. The Las Vegas Review Journal writes that the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force is investigating the matter. Quote, agents arrived at the scene early Tuesday, according to FBI Special Agent in Charge Spencer Evans. Evans said that while it was too early to call the attack an act of terrorism, it had quote unquote some of the hallmarks and a potential political agenda unquote. Now this particular incident

Starting point is 02:07:53 in Las Vegas really got to Elon Musk who spent the rest of the day complaining on Twitter that Tesla has quote done nothing to deserve these evil attacks." Attacks on Tesla have not been contained to the United States. In early March, 12 Teslas parked outside of a dealership in southern France were set ablaze, and outside Berlin, unknown persons set fire to a high-voltage transmission line on a power pylon, cutting power to a massive Tesla manufacturing plant in Germany for multiple days. This follows a series of direct actions and a forest encampment where the Tesla Gigafactory seeks to expand by leveling 250 acres of forest. The German forest encampment lasted nine months before being successfully raided by police this last November, with police destroying treehouses and trashing tents.

Starting point is 02:08:46 After the whole my heart goes out to you salute and subsequent endorsement of AFD, Musk's reputation in Germany specifically is suffering a steep decline. To quote the Washington Post, quote, Tesla stock has fallen by more than 35% since Trump's inauguration, and last year, the company suffered its first annual sales drop in more than a decade. In Germany, Tesla car sales plummeted by 76% in February compared with a year earlier, according to figures released Wednesday. And some owners have expressed buyer's remorse over owning a car some now see as a symbol of far-right politics, a stark departure from the environmental consciousness it once epitomized.

Starting point is 02:09:32 And we'll talk more about how these protests are affecting Tesla's international reputation after this ad break. Okay, we're back. Right after the November election, Tesla stock surged to a never-before-seen high of $1.54 trillion. But as Musk's direct involvement in the government was ramped up, Tesla has fallen to about $777 billion. The massively inflated value of Tesla stock is directly related to the public perception of Elon Musk.

Starting point is 02:10:16 And Tesla stock greatly determines Musk's own net worth, which is down more than $140 billion from this past December peak. When Elon's reputation gets damaged, so does Tesla's, and vice versa. Tesla's stock has been declining for nine consecutive weeks. JP Morgan analysts recently said that Tesla has lost so much value so quick that there really isn't any comparison. Quote, we struggle to think of anything analogous in the history of the automotive industry in which a brand has lost so much value so quickly.

Starting point is 02:10:50 Unquote. And Forbes writes, quote, last week, JP Morgan analysts described the recent melting of Tesla's perception, especially in pockets of the world in which Musk inserted himself into right-wing politics such as Germany. About 53% of respondents to a CNN poll published last week said that they hold a negative opinion of Musk, compared to roughly 35% with a positive view and 11% with no take."

Starting point is 02:11:17 Overseas, Tesla sales in general are way down, even as electric vehicle purchasing is going up. New data from the European Automotive Manufacturers Association show that Tesla registrations in the European Union, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland, and the UK have dropped by 45% when you compare January 2024 to January 2025. And this decline from Tesla comes as overall electric vehicle sales have increased 37% in the same January 24-25 head-to-head comparison. China's own EVs are surpassing Tesla in global production and sales in China, which is a

Starting point is 02:12:00 huge EV market. And Chinese manufacturer BYD is on track to overtake Tesla in global sales this year. And so if you consider the Tesla protests as a sort of public display of unhappiness with Tesla and Elon Musk, combined with all these other economic factors impacting the automaker, if these trends continue, Musk and Tesla could be in real trouble. After the Las Vegas attack this Tuesday, Musk went onto Fox News to explain the situation as he sees it. Yeah, it turns out when you take away people's, you know, the money they're receiving fraudulently,

Starting point is 02:12:41 they get very upset. And they basically want to kill me because I'm stopping their fraud and they want to hurt Tesla because we're stopping this terrible waste and corruption in the government. And well, I guess they're bad people. Bad people will do bad things. Essentially, Tesla is seen as an extension of Elon. And right now, Elon is seen as an extension of the Trump government. And even if people feel powerless to stop the government, hurting Tesla is seen as a

Starting point is 02:13:17 much more achievable goal with ripple effects that reach Elon, Doge, and the Trump administration. And compared to protesting the government, Tesla is a soft target, with cars and dealerships all across the country, not just in state capitals or in Washington DC, whereas government facilities are typically hard targets, by both being less accessible and more protected. JP Morgan analysts wrote, quote, Mr. Musk's work with the Department of Government Efficiency has proven controversial domestically, and while as many members of the political right may be pleased as those on the left are displeased, the effect on Tesla sales seems nevertheless negative, unquote. Musk is certainly trying to make the best of it by tapping into the previously untapped

Starting point is 02:14:06 EV market of mega conservatives, and though the Tesla brand is gaining popularity amongst conservatives, that demographic is just far less likely than liberals to actually switch from a gas to electric car. Still, the president and conservative media have been doing a lot of free Tesla commercials. Last week, Sean Hannity announced on air that he would be buying a Tesla. I don't believe in cancellation. I don't believe in cancel culture. You know, and I know maybe it's not going to make up a difference, but you know what, after I drove my friend's Tesla, I went and I already picked out the one I want.

Starting point is 02:14:45 It's called the, what is it called, the S Plaid. And you realize this thing, an electric vehicle has 1006 horsepower and goes from 0 to 62 in 2.0 seconds. And this thing rips and you can go about 400 miles without a charge and I don't drive enough to go further than 400 miles so I'm good. And maybe it's just a gesture on my part and I like new technology but it's just a way of saying, you know, look what they're doing to this guy. On Friday, March 14th, Attorney General Pam Bondi said that she is opening an investigation

Starting point is 02:15:24 into the attacks against Tesla. Quote, if you're going to touch a Tesla, go to a dealership, do anything. You better watch out because we're coming after you. Unquote. She released a statement on Tuesday after the Las Vegas arson, writing, quote, the swarm of violent attacks on Tesla property is nothing short of domestic terrorism." Musk just can't seem to understand that tons of regular people really hate him now, and instead has to invent some grand conspiracy against him.

Starting point is 02:16:00 Here's how he explained it on Fox News. Yeah, I mean, it's really come as quite a shock to me that there is this level of really Here's how he explained it on Fox News. And yet they're burning down cars, they're firebombing dealerships, they're firing bullets into dealerships, they're just smashing up Teslas. Tesla is a peaceful company. We've never done anything harmful. I've never done anything harmful. I've only done productive things. So I think we just have a deranged...

Starting point is 02:16:43 There's some kind of mental illness thing going on here because this doesn't make any sense. Yeah, I think there are larger forces at work as well. I mean, I don't know who's funding it and who's coordinating it because this is crazy. I've never seen anything like this. On X, the everything app, Musk is much more open about who he suspects are these larger forces. Musk has spread claims that quote unquote multiple Democrat NGOs are coordinating quote attacks on Tesla dealerships, staff,

Starting point is 02:17:14 and vehicles. Last night a number of cyber trucks were torched in Seattle. Democrats are becoming increasingly more desperate and violent unquote People in Musk's replies posted about how protesters are being paid by, quote, Democrat fundraising platform ActBlue, which is funded by Soros, unquote. ActBlue seems to be the right's new favorite conspiracy topic from claiming that USAID was illegally laundering money to Democrats through ActBlue, and now that ActBlue itself has the ability to funnel money to activist groups. ActBlue doesn't give away money or directly fund anything, it's a donation-based platform for registered organizations.

Starting point is 02:17:59 This is like saying, go fund me, paid for your top surgery. No, people donated on a fundraising platform. But nevertheless, this claim is going gangbusters on X the Everything app and being boosted by Musk and his associates. A popular right-wing politics account on X called Insurrection Barbie posted that quote, attacks on the Tesla dealerships which have been linked to the Indivisible Project, a left of Stalin NGO that organizes street protests for the Democratic Party with shady prepaid debit cards that they run through ActBlue are committing economic terrorism meant to tank Tesla's stock and drive a wedge between Musk and Trump."

Starting point is 02:18:47 Elon himself has claimed that a mysterious investigation has found, quote, five Act Blue-funded groups responsible for the Tesla protests, Troublemakers, Disruption Project, Rise and Resist, Indivisible Project, and Democratic Socialists of America. Act Blue funders include George Soros, Reid Hoffman, Herbert Sandler, Patricia Bauman, and Lea Hunt Hendricks. If you know anything about this, please post in the replies. Thanks, Elon." Unquote.

Starting point is 02:19:22 Now, the main organizations behind the Tesla take down protests to activist groups called the Troublemakers and the Disruption Project don't even fundraise on ActBlue. They have no affiliation. But that hasn't stopped Elon from targeting specific activists and accusing them of committing crimes simply for organizing pickets outside stores, meanwhile invoking the old anti-Semitic George Soros conspiracy as Elon himself has funneled hundreds of millions of dollars to right-wing politicians this past year and has threatened to primary any Republican congressman who doesn't cave on Trump's agenda.

Starting point is 02:20:02 So anyway, that is what's happening with Tesla derangement syndrome all across the country and even the world. Every day it feels like we are getting closer and closer to the cool zone. See you on the other side. Is this a good time? It's me, Dylan Mulvaney, and my dear friend, Joe Locke from Heartstopper and Agatha All Along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, The Dillon Hour. It's musical mayhem and it is going to be so much fun. I like a man. You like a man.

Starting point is 02:20:52 What do I like, Joe? You like a man too. We often- We have quite a similar- There's some cross pollination happening in here. Not like- No! Have we?

Starting point is 02:21:01 No. No. Not yet. Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls, gays and thays to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world

Starting point is 02:21:12 and what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dylan Hour on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Love ya. Prohibition. It's no secret that banning alcohol didn't stop people from living it up in the 1920s. When we're five years into Prohibition, the government is starting to go, okay, this isn't working.

Starting point is 02:21:34 In fact, you might even say it backfired spectacularly. I'm Ed Helms and on season three of my podcast, Snafu, we're taking you back to the 1920s and the tale of Formula 6. Because what you probably don't know about Prohibition is that American citizens were dying in massive numbers due to poisoned liquor and all along an unlikely duo was trying desperately to stop the corruption behind it. They were like superhero crusaders turning the page on a system that didn't work, wasn't fair, and was corrupt. So how did prohibitions war on alcohol go so off the rails that the government wound up poisoning its own people?

Starting point is 02:22:15 To find out, listen and subscribe to Snafu on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? How goes lower? From Blumhouse TV, iHeart Podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all-new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. And Santi was gone. I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi.

Starting point is 02:22:47 And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Hmm, pillow talk. The most unwelcome window into the human psyche. Follow our out of his element hero as he engages in a series of ill-conceived, investigative hookups. Mama always used to say,

Starting point is 02:23:03 God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. And as I was about to learn, no amount of showering can wash your hands of a bad hookup. Now, take a big whiff, my brah. Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey kids, it's me, Kevin Smith. And it's me, Harley Quinn Smith. That's my daughter, man, who my wife has always said is just a beardless, d***less version

Starting point is 02:23:33 of me. And that's the name of our podcast, Beardless, D***less Me. I'm the old one. I'm the young one. And every week we try to make each other laugh really hard. Sounds innocent, doesn't it? A lot of cussing, a lot of bad language. It's for adults only.

Starting point is 02:23:45 Or listen to it with your kid. Could be a family show. We're not quite sure. We're still figuring it out. It's a work in progress. Listen to Beardless, it's me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Starting point is 02:23:57 Oh Lord, the coming has begun. The coming has begun. The coming has begun. This is It Could Happen Here, Executive Disorder, our weekly newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, and what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis, I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, and Robert Evans. Yes, and as James Stout just noted, the coming has begun, so we're going to also begin. This episode, we are covering the week of March 12 to March 19. Obviously, the most important piece of news right now is that Minnesota Republican State Senator Justin Eichlorn,

Starting point is 02:24:37 who just last week sponsored or co-sponsored a bill that legally recognizes Trump Derangement Syndrome as a mental illness, which disqualifies you from possessing firearms, was literally that same day arrested in a sting operation for trying to meet up with and have sex with a minor. – Like, literally, he was like, had to have been texting this, he thought, what he thought was a kid, but what was really a federal agent, while he was finalizing the language. It's truly phenomenal. Pedocon theory never fails. Anyway, let's move on to the

Starting point is 02:25:13 actual important news, which is mostly bad. This has been a pretty rough week. Yeah, it's been a pretty rough week. It sucked, yes. So I guess I'll turn to James Stout. Me. Hi, everyone. Hi, James. Well, the day you're listening, it's New Rose. So New Rose, Piros Bey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Turkish listeners. Ah, yes. So I want to talk today about rendition.

Starting point is 02:25:34 This has been reported as deportation. Like, I guess it technically falls within deportation, but what's happening here is that the Trump administration has begun renditioning people who it accuses of being members of Tren de Aragua, which is a Venezuelan gang, and La Mara Salva Truchel, the MS-13 as they're known here. It has done this based on something called the Alien Enemies Act.

Starting point is 02:25:59 The way it's able to use the Alien Enemies Act is that it has designated these gangs as foreign terrorist organizations rather than as international crime organizations. And it's used the Alien Enemies Act to expedite their removal. We spoke about the Alien Enemies Act in a podcast that I made last November with Robin Sophie about parts of the law that Trump administration might use for its mass deportation agenda. They're now using this one. Very briefly, it's a 226-year-old piece of legislation that hasn't been used since World War II, when it was used to justify internment camps, which were a bad thing. These people aren't

Starting point is 02:26:34 being deported back to Venezuela. The US doesn't have relations with the Maduro regime, although it has deported people back to Venezuela on an airline that was previously sanctioned, which could now land in the US for the express purpose of deportations, which is great. Instead they're being sent to El Salvador. They're being sent there with no trial or hearing or seemingly right to appeal. When they get to El Salvador, they've been paraded in front of video cameras, very degrading treatment, right? Their hair is being shaved, sort of being walked with their heads forced down.

Starting point is 02:27:08 They're being filmed on their knees while all their hair and facial hair is removed. And then they're being sent to Sikolk. If you're not familiar with this, it was the subject of State Department Human Rights Report very recently and now we are sending people there. It's a mega prison in El Salvador. It roughly translates to terrorism confinement or terrorism detention center, I guess. It's been very recently built by Bukele, who's the president of El Salvador and is part of his supermano-turo, like iron fist, super iron iron fist would be the way you would translate it, I guess.

Starting point is 02:27:41 It is routinely criticized by human rights organizations for the disgusting conditions of people that are kept in. The United States government intended to send 300 people there and in return it paid $6 million to El Salvador for the cost of their detention. At the time that I wrote this, 238 people who were accused of being part of Tren de Aragua were sent there, and then 23 who were accused of being part of MS-13. They were removed on flights. The Trump administration is claiming they were removed before a district court judge in D.C. blocked the removals, but there are a series of timelines that you can see online,

Starting point is 02:28:20 some of which will be linked in the source of this episode. We suggest that they were in the air when he blocked their removals. Nonetheless, the judge very explicitly said, I'm quoting here, any plane containing these folks that is going to take off or is in the air needs to be returned to the United States. This is something that you need to make sure is complied with immediately. This did not happen. The planes continued traveling to El Salvador, it stopped in Honduras, and then these people were paraded before the cameras, right? And they're now presumably being detained in this prison, which doesn't meet basic standards of human rights. The government has given various reasons for ignoring this ruling from the judge. Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt claimed that there was,

Starting point is 02:29:00 quote, no lawful basis for it. Obviously, the process here is if you don't believe that judicial ruling is correct, you stop doing the thing and appeal it. You don't just keep doing the thing and say, oh, well, I don't believe you. It's not true. Obviously, this only matters in so far as the judge can enforce his decision. They also claimed in court that a verbal order that the judge gave is not the same as a written one. And they claimed that because the flights were over international waters,

Starting point is 02:29:25 this was a foreign policy matter and that the judge couldn't intervene in a foreign policy matter. That's a power that's reserved to the executive. I mean, like all of these justifications are really like freaky in terms of constitutional power and stuff. Yeah, this is there are fringes on the flag. So Admiralty Court applies kind of stuff. Yeah, but specifically that last one being like, it doesn't count because we're over international waters is like super frightening in terms of like human rights abuses. That's not the way anything works, especially since it was like a US airline. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:29:58 Yeah. In terms of, yeah, you basically don't have human rights because really, look, it's, they're forcing a loophole that doesn't exist in the same way that George W Bush did in the in the early 2000s with Guantanamo Bay. He was never stopped from doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I honestly I think I think the thing that this is closer to is the other things. So I think Guantanamo Bay is the one that gets remembered. But the other part of the CIA torture program was the US would just ship people off to places like Syria. Yeah, to a Syria. Yeah, Syria, Egypt.

Starting point is 02:30:29 Yeah, Syria and Egypt were the two biggest ones. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, yeah, we did Tunisia too. Syria's torture program had largely been cobbled together by a former SS guy. It's very good history. Yeah, I also want to read a line from the legal argument that Trump's lawyers made before this judge because it is fucking horrifying. Quote, enemy aliens are not entitled to seek any relief or protection in the country that has designated them enemies absent dispensation

Starting point is 02:30:59 by the president sees citizens protection league. And then the in parentheses noting common law ruling that alien enemies have no rights no privileges unless by the king's special favor so every single part of that is horrifying also horrifying is the fact that if you actually look up the common-rural citations the next words after King's special favor is in a time of war yeah so yeah that's the idea here right that we're a war with these foreign terrorist organizations and these yeah like essentially like spies or... Yeah, and this is this thing where like, well, no, obviously we're not. There's no state

Starting point is 02:31:31 of war. No state of war has ever been declared. But because of the way the War on Terror function, they're trying to claim these things. And then again, the fact that they're saying that anyone they declare an alien has literally no protections at all in the country. No rights at all can be anything can be done to them. It's unless specifically the president decides that they have rights is unbelievably hideous. It is pure pure state of exception. Total fascism. It's fucking horrifying. Yeah. And it's entirely unconstitutional, right? You have to be a radically left person to believe that humans have rights. I want to really briefly, like one of the criteria that was used here, so ICE criteria, so they have to have two identifying signs to be classified as a gang member.

Starting point is 02:32:18 One of them that has been used very heavily here is tattoos. We know from court filings of one man, Herceres Barrios, he has a football tattoo, right? Like a tattoo of a football with a crown on it and it says Dios, like God underneath. It was supposed to be, I guess, similar, like a play on the logo of Real Madrid. But they've used this to claim that it's evidence he's a member of a gang. Gangs like Tren de Aragua don't have like gang sign tattoos, right? Yeah. They're smarter than that. Like they've seen what's happened to gangs like MS-13, because they do like Maras, Central American gangs have had these things like as part of their tradition for a while. And they've been used heavily by law enforcement.

Starting point is 02:32:55 I remember Christmas Eve, 2023, I was in the desert with my friends and a large number of my joints across that day. I remember meeting a Venezuelan man who was like covered in tattoos, head to toe, very heavily tattooed. And that dude spent the entire day building a shelter for someone else's sick kid and then slept by himself in the freezing cold outside. And like, I know I've been thinking about that guy a lot because like under this ruling, right, like just his appearance of having tattoos would have him classified as a

Starting point is 02:33:25 terrorist and like when thousands of Americans living within an hour of that place did nothing and that little girl who was sick had nowhere to sleep. Like this guy took it upon himself to help even when he himself was in a difficult place and I, it just really makes me kind of sick to think that this is where we're at now. Yeah. No, I mean, it's a damning indictment of the character of people who are the voter base in this country.

Starting point is 02:33:55 And it's a damning indictment of what particularly liberals in the left failed to stop because this was a train that we could see coming for a while, like the propaganda campaign against these folks. And a necessary ingredient in the Republicans getting their way on this was Democratic politicians and, to be entirely fair, quite a few prominent thought leaders on the left absolutely folding and not just, not just failing to like counterpoint this stuff, but like diving in on it because they, they either had prejudice of their own or they saw it as like an opportunity, but like, you

Starting point is 02:34:34 know, the whole nativist deal is, is just disgusting. Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what else to say. I can't just like keep yelling about it. Yeah. I think it's not all a slippery slope. And I'm not saying that they're both as bad as each other because what's happening now is much worse than anything that happened previously.

Starting point is 02:34:49 But like, when we could detain people, including little children outside, and we could leave them there in the snow and like little babies could be shivering. And I could be giving away my own coat almost every day I was out there because I was worried someone's baby was going to die of hypothermia. We kind of conceded that these people didn't have rights. Right. And the democratic party let that happen and people on the left let that happen. And that is a stepping stone on the pathway to where we're at now.

Starting point is 02:35:17 Yep. And just as like with all the shit that's, that's happening right now, like in terms of like the disappearing of political opponents and whatnot, you can draw a line from that, from the Patriot Act, from Obama targeting a US citizen in, I think, Afghanistan. All of these are, obviously, things were not nearly as bad as they are right now in those administrations,

Starting point is 02:35:44 but they're not unrelated. This kind of unitary executive theory is a through line through the last several administrations. If anyone had pushed back prior to this point, Trump wouldn't be able to do a lot of what he's doing. Yep. What we are doing is pivoting to ads. Yeah. Right now. We're back and we're talking crane.

Starting point is 02:36:18 Ukraine. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have framed it that way. Ukraine if you want to. Yeah, I don't know why I did. Anyway, so if you've been kind of paying attention over the last month or so, we've had a little odyssey in terms of US, Russia, Ukraine relations. And the gist of it is that everybody claims

Starting point is 02:36:39 to want an end to the fighting, at least off and on. Putin has kind of like made some motions to that has absolutely not acted as if this is something he particularly cares about. Trump clearly does want a ceasefire because he wants to be able to take credit for it and Zelensky also clearly wants a ceasefire, but there's been some kind of some, some pretty significant like holdups. Uh, one of them has been around Ukrainian minerals and you know, in February you had the administration talking a lot about how the U S was

Starting point is 02:37:13 going to gain control of Ukraine's minerals in order to pay us back for our support of their war effort. And Zelensky drew a very firm line as he often does seem like, no, I'm not going to, you're not just going to get all of this, all of our country's minerals. And I should note here that, like, this is a fairly significant issue in global terms. It's estimated that Ukraine has about 5% of the planet's critical raw materials, including massive reserves of graphite. They're somewhere in like the top five countries in terms of proven graphite reserves, which

Starting point is 02:37:46 among other things is a critical ingredient for batteries in electric vehicles. They supply about 7% of Europe's titanium. They're home to a third of European lithium deposits. This is not an exhaustive list. That's just to start things off. Initially when there was of pushback from Zelensky saying like, no, you're not just going to get all that. Putin came in and was like, well, hey, you know, we've occupied a bunch of Ukrainian land that has raw minerals on it.

Starting point is 02:38:14 We'll give those to you. Right. And so this went back and forth and eventually Zelensky and Trump's people put together like a deal that they were supposed to sign earlier this month. That was like an actual bilateral agreement on the use of Ukrainian minerals. And essentially what it would have done is the deal did call for Ukraine to use its mineral resources to repay the United States to the tune of about half a trillion dollars. But not in a manner like where they were just handing us

Starting point is 02:38:46 their minerals. Essentially, Ukraine would contribute 50% of revenues earned from the future monetization of government-owned mineral resources and other natural resources. But these were critically revenues earned from those resources like future monetization, right? So new mines, new oil and gas plants, not included in this were like current

Starting point is 02:39:09 reserves, like actively being exploited for profit. So kind of the key to this is that like mining is not something that you can turn around on a dime. Generally once you have actually proven, you know, that you have sort of the reserves in an area, it takes about 20 years to actually get like mines up and running. And, you know, this is an extremely expensive process. So one of the reasons why Ukraine considered this a good deal for them is that we're essentially putting a lot of those revenues in the hands of the US, but it was revenues from minerals that Ukraine was not revenues in the hands of the US, but it was revenues from

Starting point is 02:39:45 minerals that Ukraine was not currently exploiting and that the US would help and provide funding to exploit. So it was not just paying back the US, it was something that would allow the rebuilding of the Ukrainian economy post-war. There were some issues with this, including the fact that mining is an extremely energy intensive task and Ukraine is in the middle of an energy crisis at the minute. But among other things, it would have brought the US in and given them a financial stake and continued peace in the region, which was seen as positive. That all blew up at a White House meeting a couple of weeks ago, where if you remember JD Vance and Trump basically had a little like WWE smackdown with Zelensky.

Starting point is 02:40:32 It was a pretty ugly meeting. And after that kind of talk of the bilateral mineral deal faded significantly. Now what's interesting is that just today, it's come out that Zelensky and Trump have had further conversations and there's a new deal apparently on the table or at least the White House claimed that there was a new deal on the table. Both the White House and Zelensky's office said that it was a very positive productive meeting.

Starting point is 02:40:59 There's some evidence that Zelensky after that big blow-up has been kind of doing the thing you've got to do with Trump, which is like massage him and say nice things to him so that he'll like you more. And that Trump has gotten kind of frustrated with the fact that Russia clearly has not been overly motivated to move towards a ceasefire. But then in the middle of this meeting that everyone seems to agree went really well, the White House comes out and says, and we're working on an agreement where the US will control all of Ukraine's

Starting point is 02:41:27 nuclear reactors. And Ukraine came out and said, no, we're not. We did not say that that was a deal. So I don't know what's actually going to happen here. Ukraine is a massive nuclear energy state. In fact, the only European country that competes with them or that is on the same level as they are. In Europe, in terms of nuclear industry is France.

Starting point is 02:41:52 They've got four nuclear power plants with 15 reactors in total. Now, obviously, the Zafirisia plant is still under Russian control, which is a significant chunk. It's like six of the 15 reactors in the country. And Ukraine is in the process of building more. They've actively added capacity since the end of the Soviet Union. And so one of the promises for future Ukrainian economic stability is that they will be able to export nuclear energy to the rest of Europe, which is also going through an energy crisis.

Starting point is 02:42:26 So it's unclear what's going to happen. There's definitely evidence again that Zelensky has kind of figured out how to massage Trump a little bit. There's a quote from an article in The Conversation that I found very interesting here. While Trump still leans towards Putin, his relationship with Zelensky seems to have improved. The Ukrainian president appears to have learned that Trump doesn't have a long memory and that flattery goes a long way with the US president. Trump meanwhile is no longer calling Zelensky a dictator, and yet there is no mention of

Starting point is 02:42:53 halting US military aid or intelligence to Ukraine. There is the opposite in fact, as the US has said it will assist in finding more patriot missile defense systems after Zelensky mentioned they were sorely needed. By giving Trump credit for the ceasefire initiative, Zelensky is putting the ball in Russia's court and his apparent receptiveness to Trump's idea about the U.S. taking over Ukraine's nuclear power plants will appeal to Trump's transactional instincts in addition to offering Trump business deals. And I don't fully know what the conversation is saying here because Zelensky's office has stated like we're not considering handing the US control.

Starting point is 02:43:26 I think this may be something like what happened with the energy deal where essentially what they talked about was the US having a financial interest in the rebuilding and expansion of the Ukrainian nuclear power grid, which would be an extension of existing programs because Ukraine's nuclear power grid is already very reliant on a US nuclear energy company, Westinghouse, that provides both the raw fuel for nuclear reactors to Ukraine, and also provides a lot of actual technology for different kind of systems in the reactors.

Starting point is 02:44:00 So I kind of think that what's happening here is that basically it was floated like, well, we can extend and expand this deal so the U.S. will have a financial interest in this potentially very large Ukrainian industry. And then Trump and his people kind of took that and said to everyone else, yeah, the U.S. is going to be in charge of Ukraine's nuclear power. That's my best guess for what happened here. It really seems like we're

Starting point is 02:44:25 relearning one of the last lessons from the administration which is if you can be the last person in the room with Trump yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah do you want to do a tariff talk wait wait did you say tariffs garrison or did you say God feels good every time okay Mia. Sorry you can talk about the actual news now Let's do this So the news we have today is that effectively every single thing I have talked about on Tariff Talk before this is just the fucking prelude. You know, and those have been very very extreme tariffs, but these are effectively going to be looked back on as the opening series of

Starting point is 02:45:19 skirmishes and sort of probing defenses. On April 2ndnd Trump is going to crash the entire world economy He is calling this liberation day on April 2nd. He is planning to impose Reciprocal tariffs on every single country on earth Finally, you know what? I'm completely on board as long as we're finally sticking it to those snotty fucks in Oman You know then then then everything's good. It's about goddamn time. Now I'm gonna take a fucking victory lap here because I have been talking about this for a very, very long time.

Starting point is 02:45:52 I talked about this last year. I talked about this beginning of last year. Talked about this the end of last year. The entire media seems to have sort of forgotten about this until they all suddenly remembered this week that Trump had promised to do reciprocal tariffs. So what reciprocal tariffs are in theory is if there's a tariff on something from another country, the US matches it. So the way the Trump administration thinks about tariffs

Starting point is 02:46:09 is deeply weird. So they're including things like value added taxes on goods in countries. Wow, which is like a sales tax in the US. Yeah, yeah. But also like subsidies and also, and this is the part that has gotten less things, but quote unquoteunquote currency manipulation

Starting point is 02:46:26 Now how the fuck do you do you calculate that for literally every single country on earth? Who knows business insider has some reporting on this where they talk to some insiders and okay So literally there are not enough people Working on tariffs to like calculate out individual tariff rates for every single country on earth It looks like the plan right now, and this is all subject to change, because again, this is Trump administration and who the fuck knows what they're going to be saying or doing in two weeks. But what we know right now is it looks like they're going to separate every country on earth into three tiers of tariffs. So there's going to be like a low tier, a mid tier and a high tier.

Starting point is 02:47:02 And it's unclear exactly what levels they're going to be. These are going to be on top of all of the additional tariffs that they've already imposed. So say, for example, China gets put into a high tier one, they put like a 50% tariff on it. That means the tariff rate is going to be 70% because there's already 20% tariffs on there. Business Insider seem to think 20% is like the low one. I don't know about that. I think they're going to be pretty high. We have no idea. And again, so what's happening here is Trump is declaring this liberation day because he has convinced himself. I think I finally understand what's going on in his brain, which is that he has convinced himself that like if you have a trade deficit

Starting point is 02:47:37 with a country, that means the country is robbing you. Right. Yes. Yes. Again, Trump's firm lifelong belief is that if you are selling something You've won and if you're buying something you have lost. Yeah now this is not how international trade Works at all the US like the entire US Empire Absolutely, the entire US Empire is based on outsourcing a bunch of political violence to other countries so you can buy goods at cheap rates Right, like that's that's that Like that's what the empire is. Yeah. We love buying things. It's the entire basis of our civilization. The reason Jeffrey Bezos was at the inauguration is because we like to be buying things.

Starting point is 02:48:16 Yeah. And so something I mentioned, you know, back when I was talking about this in the tariff episode right after the election is that the thing about reciprocal tariffs right is that it means that if anyone attempts to fight a trade war with the U.S. so another country imposes 20% tariffs the U.S. will also impose 20% tariffs and this just spirals out of control into a version of a trade war so unhinged like none of us have ever seen anything like in our lifetimes. Hell yeah brother yeah. So that's coming we have we now have April 2nd as the day everything explodes. I also want to put another note here. The hope has always been from a lot of countries and a lot of the financial markets and a bunch

Starting point is 02:48:53 of companies that these tariffs are going to have more exemptions because there were some exemptions on stuff in the initial tariffs on Mexico and Canada. Well, and it kept going back and forth, right? Yeah. But now we're getting into tariffs with which have no exceptions. The steel and aluminum tariffs have had no exemptions at all. What we've been hearing, so one of the things I've been noting is that Canada and EU have been basically mobilizing in the trade war and imposing reciprocal tariffs

Starting point is 02:49:17 in the US. China has too. Mexico has not. Apparently, Mexico still thinks that they can negotiate to be in like the lowest tier of tariffs, which won't completely destroy their economy. Fuck if I know why they think that, but who knows? Yeah, but that's effectively the tariff news we have right now. We have, again, April 2nd, quote unquote, liberation day, the day that this all goes into effect. I bet they wanted to do April 1st and realized that they couldn't. No. Yeah, I didn't think that too. No, so Trump announced this during his joint congressional address,

Starting point is 02:49:50 and he openly said that he originally wanted to do it on April 1st at the start of the month, but decided not to because he is too superstitious as a person. So yes, originally they were going to be on April 1st, and then they pushed it back to April 2nd, because they didn't want it to be on April Fool's Day. That's good. That's a good way to run things. I'm glad we're... So, that's a great, great extra insight into the mind of the US God King.

Starting point is 02:50:17 Cool. Great. Anyway, let's go on ad break, and then come back to discuss all of the other bad things that are happening in the country. Okay, we're back. The first thing I want to kind of open to a group discussion on is that on Tuesday, March 18th, the federal judge issued a preliminary injunction blocking Trump's ban on trans people serving in the military, ruling that the blanket ban likely violates constitutional rights. Stephen Miller responded to the ruling by

Starting point is 02:50:55 writing district court judges have now decided that they are in command of the armed forces. Is there no end to this madness? God. fuck. So I know this is a topic that like we have we've discussed a lot as, you know, we're not all big U.S. U.S. military defenders. No. But it's mostly done bad stuff in my lifetime. But we still take like almost like an ontological issue

Starting point is 02:51:22 with this ban, because it essentially creates just a secondary class of citizen with fundamentally different rights from the rest of everyone else, and that is never a good thing. It's like, so right now one of the semi-positive news stories is that Trump's ATF is going to be for the first time restoring people's Second Amendment rights, who had them taken away because they were involuntarily institutionalized. And I've seen a lot of liberals being like, oh, they're just going to let more crazy people have guns.

Starting point is 02:51:50 This is bad. And like, I have to disagree whether or not you like it. The second amendment is a fundamental right under the Constitution. And it's bad to say that this class of people forever lose a fundamental right because they're involuntarily institutionalized. That's bad. And likewise, even if you hate the US military's role in US imperialism, which fine enough, the right to serve in an integrated military has been a major underpinning of most of the civil rights movements, like a foundational underpinning of most civil rights movements in this country's history, including going back to the Civil War, you know, black civil rights, including LGBTQ rights and including women's

Starting point is 02:52:35 rights, right? It's like it is significant. And so the fact that the GOP is attempting to peel this back and essentially reverse integration of the military is bad for two reasons. One, it represents, as you've said, creating separate classes of people and peeling fundamental what, what are considered under the law in this country, fundamental rights away from groups of people. And it's also just dangerous for them to remake the military into an all-white organization, right? Like, all-white male organization. There's a reason why that's also dangerous to you.

Starting point is 02:53:11 So yeah, I think people should care about this, even if they're, you know, leftists. Yeah, and like, especially in this country, the military represents one of the few social mobility tools that exist, right? People don't just join the military because they, contrary to what you might have seen on Twitter.com, like want to go to Middle East and kill people. Sometimes they do it because they want to get a chance to go to education. Sometimes they want to do it so they get a chance to have healthcare. And like trans people serve at a higher rate than cis people. May not be the case for very much longer, but like that has been the case.

Starting point is 02:53:44 And they have rights to use however they want. They don't just have rights to use how you or I or anyone else would like them to use them. Well, and that's also a broad truth for the U S military members of marginalized groups have always served at a higher rate than basically anyone else. This includes like native Americans serve as at a higher proportion of like their, their population within the country than most other groups. In part because traditionally, serving in the military was a way in which to gain acceptance and entrance into American society. It's also just another world. You can feel, in some ways, insulated from the horrors you might experience in like regular suburban life oddly enough.

Starting point is 02:54:26 Yeah, to way out of the isolation that so many people experience in the world. And like, is it extremely bad that the way that you integrate into American society is by being a part of the imperial war machine? Yes. Yes. But also, the war machine is going to be there whether you are in it or not. Yeah. The the war machine is going to be there whether whether you are in it or not Yeah, and the actual fundamental important thing here is again what we've been saying is that like the fundamental basis of of liberal democracy going back to The American Revolution going back to the French Revolution going back to like the original liberal revolutions The fundamental principle of is that everyone is equal before the law

Starting point is 02:55:01 And the moment that ceases to be true and it has not been true in this country ever But you know, we're seeing increasing numbers of people who are not considered equal before the law. And the moment that ceases to be true, and it has not been true in this country ever, but you know, we're seeing increasing numbers of people who are not considered equal before the law. We just spent this entire fucking like first part of this episode talking about what happens when people are considered to have no protections under the law, which the state can just fucking black bag you and send you to a gulag. Yeah, like that is bad. That's what's fundamentally at stake here, not like whether you think the army is bad. That's what's fundamentally at stake here, not whether you think the army is good. Yeah. And imagine for those people, like when they people could have served 19 years, right? They could have been just about to get their 20 years and get their retirement and will now

Starting point is 02:55:35 not get that. They signed up expecting a thing, right? Like there was a quid pro quo there that they would give 20 years of their life and possibly a lot of their health to the United States government and in return they would get health care and a pension for the rest of their lives and people are now going to lose that. Yeah, in some related news, the VA just announced that, quote, effective immediately the VA will not offer cross sex hormone therapy to veterans who have a current diagnosis or history of or exhibit symptoms consistent with gender dysphoria unless such veterans are already receiving such care from the VA or such veterans were receiving such care from the military as a part of and upon their

Starting point is 02:56:14 separation from the military service and are eligible for VA health care. So basically, they will not be admitting like new patients to receive gender affirming health care. Well, unless they're cisgender, it seems like. Oh, yes, correct. Yes. Just to be clear, cis men can still receive gender affirming hormones. Sure. I mean, like, I kind of get annoyed when people do that, like, comparison, because like, that's never, like, we're falling into, like, this artro trap of, like, we're actually using words to mean what they mean. And, like, they're not using words like that, you know, like whenever people

Starting point is 02:56:47 like laugh about, haha, they banned pronouns at school. Now, now you can't say the word I. And you're like, no, like, come on, like, what, like, that's not what they mean. Like, you have to understand, like, the dog whistles that they're using. Yeah, it's I found it interesting, though, that they seemingly like you try to even get around like that like linguistic thing in their statement.

Starting point is 02:57:07 Sure, like it depends what you mean by gender dysphoria, right? Like you could theoretically you could have gender dysphoria because you're a cis male and you want to become more masculine, right? Like all of these diagnoses have like a very fuzzy ontological underpinning, right? These are just categories that we're projecting. Yes. But this is, you know, probably not great. It's probably isn't a good thing. Like, for instance, if you already have VA health care, you're not in the military anymore, and now

Starting point is 02:57:32 you decide that you would like to receive gender-affirming health care. Now you can't, at least through the VA. Yep. So as a related thing. Let's see. I think we should kind of close with or like bookend our discussion on like the immigration stuff and the blackbaggings and deportations which have been happening. A German immigrant named Fabian Schmidt who has lived in the States with a green card. Such a German name, beautiful. Since 2008, so like he's lived here quite a while, he immigrated with his mom.

Starting point is 02:58:02 He was detained and tortured at the Boston Logan Airport upon returning from a visit to Europe. The man's mother says that he was, quote unquote, violently interrogated at the Logan Airport for hours and was stripped naked, put in a cold shower by two officials, and pushed back into an interrogation chair. I'm going to quote from WGBH, quote, She said Schmidt told her immigration agents pressured him to give up his green card. She said he was placed on a mat in a bright room with other people at the airport with

Starting point is 02:58:30 little food or water, suffered sleep deprivation and was denied access to his medication for anxiety and depression. He hardly got anything to drink and then he wasn't feeling very well and he collapsed, said a senior, which is his mom. He was transported by ambulance to Mass General Hospital. He didn't know it at the time, but he also had the flu." Now Schmidt has since been transferred to multiple ICE facilities. He had a misdemeanor charge for marijuana possession in California back in 2015,

Starting point is 02:58:59 but that charge was dismissed the following year due to changes in state law. But I think this incident may have flagged Schmidt on the Customs and Border Protection's database. And Hilary Beckham, CBP's Assistant Commissioner for Public Affairs, gave a short statement reading, quote, when an individual is found with drug-related charges and tries to re-enter the country, officers will take proper action, unquote. the country. Officers will take proper action." But essentially they like tortured, black-bagged this person who's had a green card for like almost two decades for a dismissed marijuana charge like ten years ago. This is like a very white man, like Fabian Schmidt. This is super freaky stuff. Yeah, we should say that a lot of that stuff is not particularly unusual in ICE detention, lights being on all the time, not being given beddings, but like being shoved into a cold

Starting point is 02:59:53 shower is not something else. That was at the airport, they say. Like being interrogated at the airport. This is a new one. And being forced to forcibly give up your green card during this interrogation session. At that very same airport, I think just maybe a day or so later, a Lebanese doctor and professor at Brown University, Rasha Al-Wiya, was deported this weekend after traveling to Beirut to visit family and attend the public funeral of Hassan Nasrallah.

Starting point is 03:00:24 Upon returning to the United States, she was detained at the Boston airport, route to visit family and attend the public funeral of Hassan Nasrallah. Upon returning to the United States, she was detained at the Boston airport, had her H-1B visa revoked, and was deported on a plane to France on Friday, March 14th, before she could attend her in-person hearing that following Monday. According to court documents, her deportation was prompted by deleted pictures on her phone of Shia Muslim figures like Nasrallah and the Ayatollah. Another very, very frightening incident in those documents. It's unclear how Customs and Border Protection

Starting point is 03:00:55 was viewing deleted photos on her phone or like open up her phone, right? Because like if you recently deleted a photo, it is still contained in your recently deleted folder, assuming you have like an iPhone or equivalent. But it's unknown how they got into her phone, if she let them look through it, or if they used one of many phone breaking devices. Like, a gray key or whatever.

Starting point is 03:01:17 But I think it is interesting that this is at the same airport to, you know, slightly related incidents. But yeah, we've seen that a lot with like, in similar cases, people crossing the land borders, San Ysidro, but I think a Canadian and German citizen were both detained, which is San Diego County, if it's not familiar. It seems like there's some kind of policy at certain border crossings or maybe like the person in charge there is saying, do this, you know, detain people if there's anything on their record at all. Well, so there's another case of this that's similar where a French researcher who to the best of my knowledge is unnamed so far, was randomly pulled aside for a stop at George Bush International Airport in Houston, which is sort of fitting for all of this. George

Starting point is 03:02:02 Bush has got to be fucking creaming his pants thinking about all this black bag and shit But yeah, I was randomly pulled over and they found anti-trump texts on his phone and immediately deported him this is a guy who was visiting the US like I think to go to a conference and The the Border Patrol is arguing that anti-trump texts are considered terrorism Which is great or the text that they found are like could be like the anti-Trump-ness of it can be considered terroristic. So that's bad. There was yet another case, which is a slightly different one, which is Badr Khan Suri, who is a postdoc at Georgetown who was detained and sent to an immigration facility. Who's here teaching, he's a postdoc at Georgetown on a student visa, who has been sent to an immigration

Starting point is 03:02:46 facility based on basically a right wing panic about his wife's father being Hamas. And because of this, he's been black bagged in a way very similar to Mahmoud Khalil. Yeah, now Georgetown is backing him on this, but this is another one of these fucking black packings that they're just doing now with someone who is here on a student visa who has committed no crime, who Georgetown was like has committed no

Starting point is 03:03:11 crime, and again also even if he had committed a crime this is fucking horseshit, but yeah, all of these things are just continuing to ramp up and they're getting bolder and bolder. Robert, do you want to do want to read a select paragraph or two from from Khalil's first public statement? Yeah, so he put out a letter a couple of days before we recorded this and you should really read the whole thing if you just Google Mahmoud Khalil

Starting point is 03:03:39 letter. I mean, I think the exact title is My Name is Mahmoud Khalil and I am a political prisoner, which is the first sentence of the letter. I think the exact title is My Name is Mahmoud Khalil and I am a political prisoner, which is the first sentence of the letter. But I want to read this little bit of him talking about his arrest. On March 8th, I was taken by DHS agents who refused to provide a warrant and accosted my wife and me as we returned from dinner. By now, the footage of that night has been made public. Before I knew what was happening, agents handcuffed and forced me into an unmarked car. At that

Starting point is 03:04:07 moment, my only concern was for Noor's safety. I had no idea if she would be taken too, since the agents had threatened to arrest her for not leaving my side. DHS would not tell me anything for hours. I did not know the cause of my arrest or if I was facing immediate deportation. At 26 Federal Plaza, I slept on the cold floor. In the early morning hours, agents transported me to another facility in Elizabeth, New Jersey. There, I slept on the ground and was refused a blanket despite my request. My arrest was a direct consequence of exercising my right to free speech as I advocated for a free Palestine and an end to the genocide in Gaza, which resumed in full force Monday

Starting point is 03:04:43 night. With January's ceasefire now broken, parents in Gaza are once again cradling two small shrouds and families are forced to waste starvation and displacement against bombs. It is our moral imperative to persist in the struggle for their complete freedom." And again, I really recommend reading the whole thing. It's very good. But yeah. I get so particularly upset that Trump's admin uses this vague anti-Semitism justification for some of these actions at least. Because the head of Trump's anti-Semitism task force just last week retweeted Patrick Casey, who is from the American Identity Movement,

Starting point is 03:05:27 a leading alt-right figure who was at Charlottesville, to quote Shane Burley. This tweet that was reposted by the head of this anti-Semitism task force claimed that, quote, Trump has the ability to revoke someone's Jew card. Yeah, it's absolutely fucking horrifying. Are we serious here? It's like unbelievable, unbelievable amounts of antisemitism spread by the person who leads the federal task force to combat antisemitism. Great. Yeah, and going back to Colombia for a second, one of the other things that's been happening is that

Starting point is 03:05:59 Trump threatened Colombia with the loss of $400 million of government contracts unless they give in to a bunch of Trump's demands. So Trump wants them to ban masks on campuses, allow campus cops to do more violence against student protesters, and expel protesters who occupy buildings. The president is supposed to get control of all discipline and can expel and suspend students. And they want to crack down student groups.

Starting point is 03:06:21 And this is also a tie into the other thing. They want the IHRA definition of anti-semitism and like space specifically the Trump's like letter to them specifically says like classifying anti-zionism is anti-semitism and They want to put the the Middle East South Asian and African studies departments in academic receivership Which means stripping away power from the faculty and giving it to someone outside. Yeah Columbia is about to give into these demands It seems like they want to try to find another word other than academic receivership, but they're just gonna fucking do it. So, and Trump, does Trump have the legal authority to do this? No, obviously not. But, you know, does he have the moral authority to do this? No, obviously not. Like, this guy is...

Starting point is 03:06:55 No, but none of those are important. He has guys with guns. That's what it always comes down to, and anyone who forgets that is only hurting themselves. And then anyone who forgets that is only hurting themselves. Yeah. And so he's also doing this thing of like attempting basically to dismantle a bunch of the higher education institutions in this country, unless they become just pure right wing sort of laboratories. And another example of this is as the news stories about Colombia were coming out, like Colombia trying to take the deal coming, were coming out. The University of Pennsylvania is about to lose one hundred and seventy five

Starting point is 03:07:22 million dollars of funding for allowing Leah Thomas, a trans swimmer, to swim for their college. So this is just going to be a giant sort of battering ram that Trump is going to use to just basically obliterate the education system and impose whatever unhinged right wing thing that he wants to impose. And we will talk more about his efforts to destroy the education system next week on our next episode of ED as he is continuing to prep an executive order to abolish the Department of Education. And there's plenty of plenty of other news including the federal judge confrontations

Starting point is 03:08:01 that we will also report on next week. But before we leave today, Mia has a brief note on the bird flu, which I'm sure will be fine, frankly. I'm still eating eggs. But, uh, Mia. Yeah. So as people live with the boy flu. So so the thing the thing about chickens is that they're dying from bird flu right now. This has killed an enormous number of chickens. This is part of why egg prices are so high.

Starting point is 03:08:24 Now, this is a problem that a lot of countries have dealt with. China has dealt with this by just fucking vaccinating their chickens. The Biden administration refused to vaccinate chickens because it would cost money and because it might make it harder for us to export their chickens. So that was bad. R.F.K. Jr. literally just wants to let the bird flu rip and kill all the birds and thinks that the healthy birds will survive and those healthy birds.

Starting point is 03:08:46 Herd immunity. Yeah, yeah, he thinks herd immunity. Bird, bird head. Flock immunity. He is a herd immunity guy for COVID because he's a human eugenicist. He's also a chicken eugenicist. Now, I'm specifically doing this

Starting point is 03:08:56 because I read multiple virologists reading about this, writing about this. I talked to virologists and the virologist all basically said, if you were trying to design a way to make to make the bird flu, like move like mutate in such a way that it moves from birds to humans, this is what you would do. Yeah, great. So and again, cool. The the death rate of this thing is in a completely different

Starting point is 03:09:21 category from fucking COVID. It makes COVID look like having a mild case of allergies. Like- Staggeringly lethal. And like, it cannot overstate how disastrous this would be. Yeah, and COVID killed more than a million Americans, like 15 case people have memory hold that. Yeah, right now, current rates, when it has reached humans,

Starting point is 03:09:43 it was about a 50% fatality rate They thought initially that they were missing a lot of cases and that it was much lower but like the current research points to Suggests that that is not the case that it is Actually somewhere in that range of lethality. Yes. I'm still eating my chicken tartar. I don't know why everyone's so worried about it and again, we We don't know that like The version that actually is able to jump from human to human

Starting point is 03:10:13 After jumping from bird to human would be that lethal because that doesn't exist quite yet. Probably. Yeah But this is how we find out but we really don't want to find out Yeah, look if if you don't want to find out, we have to find a way to get RFK Jr. out of that fucking office. Again, I think if we, we really need to have a lot of different farmers set up photo ops with him

Starting point is 03:10:36 where he is just covered in birds. We need to have that man in constant physical contact with chickens. He would do it. And the problem will eventually solve itself. We could convince him to eat raw chicken. We could definitely do it. Sure, yes, absolutely. Raw, eat them, cuddle them, sleep with them at night, just kind of stand on a pile of their corpses.

Starting point is 03:10:56 All right, all right. If you are a chicken, or you know a chicken, or you have anything else that you would like to share with us, you can do so. Well, not anything else, it should be related to the news and things that we can report on. You can send it to coolzone tips at proton.me. And it's only encrypted if you also use encryption to send the message, end to end. Yeah, it's a proton address. That means, yeah, you have to send from encrypted to encrypted.

Starting point is 03:11:23 It still doesn't mean it's perfectly safe. That just means it's encrypted. So send what you think you can send over an email that is that way. We reported the news. We reported the news. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe.

Starting point is 03:11:46 It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonedmedia.com, or check us out on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening! who tried to warn the public that prohibition was going to backfire so badly, it just might leave thousands dead from poison. Listen and subscribe to Snafu on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

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Starting point is 03:13:00 Listen to The Hook Up on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast, The Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. This season explores women from the 19th century to now. Women who were murderers and scammers, but also women who were photojournalists, lawyers, writers and more. This podcast tells more than just the brutal, lawyers, writers, and more. This podcast tells more

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